Anti-LGBT Panics Are Bad for Everyone's Liberty
Politicians respond to often unfounded fears with aggressive laws that interfere with individual and family choices.

The year was 1952, and Sen. Clyde R. Hoey (D–N.C.) was investigating how many gay people worked for the federal government and whether these workers were a security threat. In what would eventually be called the Lavender Scare, the government launched a purge of gay and lesbian employees, aided by a 1953 executive order by President Dwight Eisenhower. The witch hunts soon spilled over into the private sector, as workers lost jobs that required security clearances.
The year was 1978, and California state Rep. John Briggs (R–North Orange County) was launching Proposition 6, a ballot initiative that would have required school districts to fire teachers found to have engaged in homosexual conduct. For a while it looked likely to pass. Then Ronald Reagan, who had recently finished serving as California governor, came out against it, rallying conservative opposition with an editorial in the Los Angeles Herald-Examiner: "Whatever else it is, homosexuality is not a contagious disease like the measles. Prevailing scientific opinion is that an individual's sexuality is determined at a very early age and that a child's teachers do not really influence this."
The year was 1987, and Sen. Jesse Helms (R–N.C.) was incensed by an AIDS education comic book intended to teach safer sex. So he introduced an amendment steering federal funds away from materials that "promote or encourage, directly or indirectly, homosexual activities." It passed. A few years later, Helms would try to push through legislation urging states to enforce their sodomy laws—"in the best interest of public health."
The year was 2004, and one state—Massachusetts—had started legally recognizing same-sex marriages. President George W. Bush, facing re-election, called for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment "defining and protecting marriage as a union of a man and a woman as husband and wife." The Republican Party added the idea to its platform. While the national amendment was never adopted, 11 states passed their own constitutional bans against recognition that fall.
The year is 2022, and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is spearheading another moral panic. This one focuses on fears that activists are pressuring kids into prematurely identifying as trans or nonbinary, rushing them headlong into irreversible medical treatments.
The contours and players of today's LGBT panics are different, but the underlying conflict is not new. And while stoking that conflict may be good for certain politicians' careers—it is surely no coincidence that DeSantis is embarking on this crusade as his name is bandied about as a potential Republican presidential candidate—it is bad for individual liberty.
The New LGBT Culture Wars
DeSantis and allied lawmakers have barred Florida educators from any instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity with young students at all, and they have restricted how teachers can approach those subjects in the higher grades. Parents are authorized to seek financial damages from school districts if they believe teachers or staff are discussing LGBT topics inappropriately—and what's inappropriate is defined so vaguely that all sorts of unobjectionable conversations could prompt a suit. Some Florida schools have even started removing children's books like I Am Jazz from their libraries because they featured trans characters. It's not clear that the law actually requires such removals, but the possibility of lawsuits encourages districts to interpret the restrictions broadly.
Meanwhile, politicians in several states have introduced aggressive laws that attempt to stop minors from getting any sort of trans-affirmative medical treatment for gender dysphoria, even when parents and doctors support it. In Texas, Attorney General Ken Paxton has declared that giving minors any such treatment counts as "child abuse" and Gov. Greg Abbott has ordered officials to start investigating families. One of the first targets investigated was a parent who worked for the state's own Department of Family and Protective Services. (Following a lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union, a Texas court has put Abbott's order on temporary hold.)
Contrary to their supporters' rhetoric, these laws aren't about preserving parents' right to shape their children's educations or protecting vulnerable young people from threats. After all, if you think families should make decisions about children's education and care, that means accepting that families will make different decisions. Rules like these don't establish a neutral position. They let one group of Americans tell another group of Americans that they don't get a say in what their kids are taught or what treatments they can pursue.
These differences cannot be resolved by the government, and certainly not by schoolteachers. Yet they play out as a seemingly unending, unresolvable fight over who controls the public school curriculum. And the laws that result just make things worse. In the abstract, people who support bills like the one in Florida may think they're keeping sexually explicit books out of the hands of small children. In actual practice, people who don't like gays are attempting to yank books like And Tango Makes Three, an utterly harmless story about a pair of male penguins who raise a chick.
The State Doesn't Own Our Kids, Even If They're Getting Hormone Treatments
There is a real social conflict at work here, even if these laws are ill-suited to resolve it. Many parents genuinely worry about the rise of radical self-identifications that go beyond male and female. When they see a parade of odd flags representing rare variations on gender identities and sexual orientations, they feel a sense of cultural fragmentation.
Above all, the increase in the number of younger people identifying as trans has led many adults to worry that children are recklessly altering their bodies based on passing fancies. Often, the worriers point to the experiences of detransitioners—people who once identified as trans and began the process of medical treatment only to change their minds and, in some cases, reaffirm their birth sex.
The existence of detransitioners does not discredit trans-affirming treatments. The dramatically increased acceptance of gay and trans people in the U.S. has undoubtedly made young people more comfortable with questioning their gender identities. And the science of identifying gender dysphoria is complex and still being heavily researched, so it is inevitable that a certain number of people who believe they are trans might eventually decide otherwise and have regrets. (A survey from 2015 of more than 27,000 transgender Americans found that 8 percent had at least temporarily detransitioned at some point. Just 0.4 percent of all those surveyed had done so because they had concluded that they were not transgender after all, as opposed to stopping because of pressure from others, because they found the process to be too hard, or because of harassment.)
None of that justifies political intervention, even when we're talking about minors. If you doubt that, consider the other optional surgeries that young people pursue. According to 2020 data from the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, doctors performed more than 87,000 cosmetic surgical procedures on teenagers.
It's considered controversial in some quarters to let teens get surgery to change their appearance. Certainly some adults would love for legislators to pass laws stopping minors from getting many of these procedures. But neither federal nor state governments have done so. As a culture, we accept that decisions about these surgeries are properly made by the teens, consenting parents, and medical professionals. You may think these are reckless decisions that the teens may someday regret, and probably some of them do. Some of them might go wrong, might not be as beautiful or as affirming as the teens hoped. But that isn't our decision to make, and embracing liberty means accepting that people will make decisions that we might not choose for ourselves. (And if the doctor commits actual malpractice, there are civil courts to resolve that.)
That doesn't change when the surgeries involve teen genitals rather than teen noses. Critics of these treatments believe youths are permanently disfiguring their bodies, but supporters retort that denying trans kids the treatments they want (not all of which are surgical) can lead to worsening mental health, even suicide. Either way, the stakes are higher—and that makes it more important that families be able to make these decisions without political interference.
Meanwhile, these bills and orders are written in ways that reject the medical science of gender dysphoria entirely. Arkansas' ban on trans medical treatment for minors is named the Save Adolescents From Experimentation (SAFE) Act; it asserts that "most" of these "physiological interventions" are "unnecessary." The rejection is even more overt from those pushing for these measures. When they hurl the epithet "groomer" at those who oppose these laws, as DeSantis press secretary Christina Pushaw has from her personal Twitter account, they are suggesting that gender dysphoria is something that adults are foisting upon impressionable children. It's the modern version of the paranoid old idea that the LGBT community grows by recruiting the young.
The Government Doesn't Diagnose—It Punishes
The state is an expression of political will, not ethical medicine. The attorney general of Texas has no idea what treatments are best for kids who believe they may be transgender, but he has the power to investigate and jail parents for making decisions the government deems to be "abusive." And we have a lengthy history of child welfare agencies harassing families for behavior that offends officials but does not cause actual harm to children. In Chicago, for example, teachers have been known to call the state's Department of Children and Family Services to investigate them for abuse and neglect when they resist attempts to foist school changes or special education classes on their kids. One parent told The Hechinger Report she was investigated for letting her child go to school with a haircut he gave himself, telling her it could be considered "emotional abuse."
People who are serious in their belief in individual liberty and self-determination should reject any effort to shift these decisions from individuals and families to the government. The alternative—to give the state the power to dictate what is and is not legitimate medical treatment—means giving politicians control over our bodies. And we have centuries of experience with the ugly, authoritarian consequences of letting government dictate the limits of our self-ownership: telling us what we can say, what we can consume, what we can do with our bodies and our property.
Using modern medicine to change our genders may take self-ownership further than many people are used to. But if we're serious about liberty, the same principle applies.
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Sorry Scott, but you can't turn an X into a Y.
Just like the rest of The Science! and despite Scott's attempts to hide it behind a 'panic' about personal liberty, it's not about turning an X into a Y, it's clearly about making other people bend the knee.
This ------> "it's clearly about making other people bend the knee."
Getting the POWER of the Nazi(National Socialist)-Regime.
The “LBGT culture war” is tactically about denying the truth demonstrated by logic and science.
It is a tactic used by all corrupt liars to censor evidence as hatred, or hurtful.
Well, you do umdrastand lies and propaganda. As I assume you are a huge fan of Goebbells.
I'm beginning to think you have a point. A Soviet writer once explained that the huge lies pushed by the regime were not used to fool the population (nobody could be that stupid as to believe the official narrative). The narrative was so over the top false in order to demoralize the population and to make them feel completely defeated. They had to basically say that up was down and down was up in order to maintain their livelihoods. Maybe something similar is happening here as well - we must pay lip service to things which are utterly ridiculous in order to maintain our livelihoods. And this is simply a flex by the powers that be.
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Normalizing mental illness isn't going to end well.
We're already there, to be frank. Laws like this are a result of it already being entrenched in the mainstream and promoted by mass media.
Sure, it's "reactionary," to put it in the parlance of marxists, but it's nothing more than the same reaction an immune system has to a virus.
Remember, resistance to totalitarianism is totalitarianism.
And when it comes to hard core left battling hard core right, that quip is essentially true.
But the hard core right isn't the only ones battleing
I would argue it is the underlying cause for most of the problems we are seeing.
We are hunter-gatherers that are meant to be active, problem solving, and at times under threat. Our society has none of that. It glorifies lazy, consequence free, mental illness celebrating, hedonism at the touch of a button, buy everything on credit and live in debt, never own anything.
We are so free of any actual wolves knocking on our door we have to pretend calling gender dysphoria out for what it is counts as literal violence. Because these people are so entrenched in a state of constant mental illness, anxiety/depression etc that it is their entire existence.
Yeah, I've been saying something similar for decades.
As a species we've licked the major stuff like no longer routinely having our lives cut short by violence, disease, starvation, the elements, and the like.
But we apply that same problem solving gusto to things that are absurd by comparison.
Kaczinsky wasn't entirely wrong when he said, "The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race." The problem was that he ultimately determined that the issue was technology itself, ignoring that technological advancements prior to the 1800s had contributed to stabilized societies, rather than the social maladaption that occurs (including, I would argue, mass murders) when relative safety is considered a given.
If you're hungry you have one problem. If you're full, you have many problems.
Our objective reality, reflected both in common-place technology and in easy material-rich lifestyles, has left behind our cognitive abilities. For most people, we are again in a situation where much of what happens around them is "magic" beyond their comprehension. And despite having easier, safer, and longer lives, the human mind quickly adapts and takes that for granted.
I do think that the human brain has natural functions dedicated to finding threats, and WILL find some, even if by invention. And most people naturally comprehend reality only through some comprehensive mystical cause-effect narratives, i.e. religions. Those who discard Jesus and Muhammad and then embrace Gaia and Marx are still indulging their cognitive needs.
We also are quick to forget problems once we solve them.
Take cars for example. People are going crazy of car exhaust. They forget that before cars the streets were literally full of shit, piss and flies.
Been to San Francisco lately?
"Whoosh!"
I think you meant, "Swish!"
It was a joke sarc.
You made a damn good point though.
AKA a SQRLSY buffet.
Well you just have it all figured out.
Free people can be however they want to be. That's why it's called freedom.
You're free to be rude to trans people too. Nobody's gonna arrest you for that. Not that there's any excuse for rudeness.
Oh, have you downgraded the threat level to just “rudeness” now, tony? What happened to “people will die!”
You must be terrified now that Ricky Gervaise has joined with Dave chappelle to form a veritable biracial, international comedic ball of hate that “gives permission” to “violent bigots” to do horrible things.
What precautions are you taking?
I'm just sad that comedians I like have all cashed in on lazy, outdated, and shockingly similar transphobic material.
Gervais I think was more subtle in what he was doing, but it was still a swing and miss in my opinion. Chapelle just lectured us like it was a cut-rate Ted talk. The guy who had the nerve to criticize Hannah Gadsby.
"had the nerve to criticize Hannah Gadsby."
You mean the unfunny fat Australian boy who's always whining about stuff?
Talk about shooting fish in a barrel.
Tony, it’s gays like you that historically were the vicious towards trannies. The only thing that’s changed is that your democrat masters have told you to be nice to them.
All of a sudden y'all are all experts on the gay community.
the truth to tough for you tony........
"You're free to be rude to trans people too. Nobody's gonna arrest you for that."
Are you deliberately lying or do you live in a cave?
Lawmakers Pass Bill Extending Transgender Protections
Father jailed after referring to biological female child as his daughter
The warrant was issued by a judge for the arrest of a father after calling his biological female child his "daughter," and referring to her with the pronouns "she" and "her."
New California law allows jail time for using wrong gender pronoun
and
Misgendering as Misconduct
Misgendering Is a Human Rights Violation, Canadian Court Rules
and
New York Can Fine You $250k For ‘Misgendering’ Somebody
An English ruling on transgender teens could have global repercussions
Ouch, Tony gets owned again.
"Free people can be however they want to be. That's why it's called freedom."
Pedos want their "freedom" too. Some things are and need to be illegal. Kids need to be protected from deranged adults. Teaching my kids about your gender related mental health issues should be one of those things.
Your activism has no place in my kids classroom just like if I were a religious person (I am not) it would also have no place in your kids classroom. After all, its as illogical to state that a guy with cocknballs and XY chromosomes (I know, redundant), is in fact female and should compete against someone with XX chromosomes as it is to state that this wine and crackers I just ate is actually the blood and body of Christ.
Your ability to be happy and trans is just fine and ill celebrate that for you. But ill be the one to teach my kid about sex and gender, thank you kindly
"You're free to be rude to trans people too. Nobody's gonna arrest you for that. Not that there's any excuse for rudeness."
It's like you purposely put your foot in it.
It's a favorite topic of mine. It will hurt the significantly mental ill most of all.
But enough about religion.
Hurr durr
Religious bigotry is still bigotry.
You cannot have god given rights without at least some religion.
Believing that believing in nothing is better than believing in something is likely a form of mental illness in itself.
Equating actual Mental illness with religion is without merit.
"Man will sooner will nothingness than not will at all"
Shackford bent both of them.
Who is trying to make whom "bend the knee"? How is letting kids transition "bending the knee"?
Sure you can - you just cut part of it off.
This is CNN.
Fuck Joe Biden
We need to return to civility, you coward! People like David French are right. The Trumpist Right is worse than the Left because of their utter lack of humility or decorum. Remember, kind words and not being a big meanie is what has kept our Constitution working all these years.
The Left has humility and decorum? Since when?
Since the mid-00's when people realized Bush II was a war monger and patriotic Americans should vote Blue no matter who.
Hasn't Biden sent billions in weapons to Ukraine?
Fuck civility.
You're worse in literally every conceivable way.
I don't know why you can't take your support of that fat orange shitmonster as a proxy for all the other ways you're terrible, but you're fucking stupid, which is the whole point.
Or maybe this?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WkZ5e94QnWk
This was meant to be to the Rabbi. Fucking Reason and it’s stupid phone interface
That "fat orange shitmonster" was still a hundred times less brutally fascist than your crowd, Tony.
He doesn’t even know what the word means. Tony has some shitty sociology degree. He’s also not intelligent.
You mean like this?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eEqze64b-m0
Paid by Soros but Nipsy totally wasn't an Uncle Tom.
Perhaps you are referring to the literal hundreds of other things that MSM/Social Media/Celebrities put out in this same vein? But I guess it’s only ok when it is from the elite tribe to the deplorable tribe (oooo not too close to a politician labeling enemies I hope), right? Is it one side pushing back because we’ve been pushed too far once too often? DAMN RIGHT! Normal people don’t point to a TWO year old who says “I’m a boy now.” as a prescription to pump puberty blockers into a toddler! Normal people don’t tell third graders to keep secrets from Mom and Dad. Normal people don’t have drag strip shows for high schoolers and try to keep it secret. I’m so sure your reaction to a teacher having the class read Bibles would be off the scale crazy (even compared to the crazies above) that I would bet money. Let a rumor start about a teacher starting a TPA chapter and the bonfire will be built and lit before the end of the day. The actions in this article didn’t spring forth from nothing. They are a reaction to real, verifiable actions taken.
I guess you have no familiarity with America's political history....
Civility is good, but not required in a democracy.
One persons idea of civility can easily be an others version of being suppressed and discounted.
Kind words and not being a big meany has zero to do with keeping our constitution, and as it has been purposely eroded and diminished, I do not think you are correct in saying it is still working all that well.
Fuck Joe Biden.
I feel your pain, loser.
Faggot, I’m going to enjoy watching the fear and horror from treasonous retards like you when you finally push things too far. It will be the end for you. Hopefully a slow and agonizing end in your case.
Fuck Joe Friday.
That's the spirit!
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults.
Not a one of his posts is worth refuting; like turd he lies and never does anything other than lie. If something in one of Joe Asshole’s posts is not a lie, it is there by mistake. Joe Asshole lies; it's what he does.
Joe Asshole is a psychopathic liar; he is too stupid to recognize the fact, but everybody knows it. You might just as well attempt to reason with or correct a random handful of mud as engage Joe Asshole.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults; Joe Asshole deserves nothing other.
Not even with Tony’s dick.
Fuck Shackford too, for spewing this left wing b.s. and pretending that gays, lesbians, and transgender people are some sort of unified interest group. But in his bigoted little mind, I suppose all those icky sexual deviants ought to be lumped together.
Yes. Ls, Gs, and Bs have little in common with each other and little common interest, but all three have no common cause with Ts. In fact, the sexism of transgenderism is in direct opposition to the goal of liberation from prescribed sex roles that Gays and Lesbians have fought for. Lumping Ts together with the sexual freedom movement makes no sense. Rejection or criticism of genderism has nothing to do with past oppression of homosexuals. Genderism is a new and unrelated threat.
Objection your honor! relevance?
The contours and players of today's LGBT panics are different, but the underlying conflict is not new.
Yup. Stamping out adults grooming children the way we did when Mormons did it. Even going to far as to purge local judges, by law, from their positions for engaging in consensual polygamy.
You may not remember or may be conveniently forgetting the discussion about consensual polygamy during the gay marriage debate, Scott. That doesn't mean everyone else has forgotten the "Privileges for thee, not for me" position that was taken and considers your 'panic about individual liberty' narrative in any way accurate or anything other than strictly self-serving.
Edit: "Privileges for me, not for thee"
*gulps coffee*
The privilege wheel turns. Give it a few years and gays will no longer be useful to the left and Scott's very existence will be deemed Islamophobic or some such and his sorry ass will be going back in the closet. And Scott will never understand why that happened. It will just be bad luck or something.
It will just be bad luck or something.
Not luck. The wrong sorts of people will have, and this totally isn't some sort of utterly groundless irrational panic about consenting adults paying hookers to pee on them, rigged an election.
Gays have nothing to do with transgender people.
True. We call them the "alphabet people".
Yes In Your Back Yard!
What are you talking about?
Who the fuck is talking about pedophiles but you?
The right loves talking about pedophiles. It's called projection.
Lol, the right isn't the group demanding their right to secret conversations with kids about sex you retard.
Given the wave of sex crimes committed by progressive elites, you're grasping at straws and trying to deflect.
Thinking that pedophilia is a righty thing means that you choose to ignore the reality that it is only the left that seeks to normalize pedophilia.
No, unlike leftists, we protect our kids. We don’t butcher them for the sake of virtue signaling to fellow travelers. Your kind are even starting to normalize pedophilia.
So seriously, fuck you. You and your fellow travelers are the kiddie rapers. Including your comrade, and regular commenter Buttplug.
The right loves talking about pedophiles. It's called projection.
I've got them on mute so I can't read the comment but lemme guess: Tony or SQRLSY One accused me of talking about pedophilia when I said nothing about pedophilia, making them the ones actually projecting and bringing up pedophilia. Am I right?
The attorney general of Texas has no idea what treatments are best for kids who believe they may be transgender, but he has the power to investigate and jail parents for making decisions the government deems to be "abusive."
An argument so full of holes it makes a sieve seem water tight. The attorney general of Texas has no idea what treatments are best for murderers, rapists, suicidal cult members/leaders, otherwise abusive parents, their victims, etc., etc., etc. That doesn't mean he's wrong to carry out the law as written.
I don't think you have to be a doctor or even a biologist to know that pumping a 12 year old full of hormones and cutting his dick off is not the "right treatment", whatever that is.
If a 12 year old can consent to that, how can he not consent to sex with an adult? That is what this is about isn't it?
If they are mature enough to make decisions such as this, they can surely purchase and own firearms. /sarc
No person, adult or child, needs a weapon of war. Gender confirmation surgeries, on the other hand, are the best tool available to prevent suicide by gender non-conforming individuals.
Why would we want to do that?
Nobody needs a weapon until somebody else has one. Good luck with the delusion that we can have a world without any and all weapons.
As for the threat of suicide, people have used that to justify all sorts of demands on others. In general, any species is better off without individual inclined towards self harm in the gene pool.
Even if all weapons are gone, there will still be stronger people exploiting weaker people.
Which is why private gun ownership is an excellent thing for real equality, no fake lefty virtue bullshit needed.
The really nice thing about being an adult is that other adults don't get to tell us what we need!
You don't need a windmill to be able to plug in your iphone.
You don't need an electric car to get from point a to point b.
You don't need an absentee ballot to be able to vote.
Except the suicide rate of trans people is way higher than the general population.
How can you be so clueless?
No, RabbiHarveyWeinstein is correct. Check out Google Scholar to see that "Top" or "Top and Bottom" surgeries drop suicidal ideation and attempts by 40%. It's surprisingly efficient. Even after that, those rates are much higher than the general population, but undeniably brings them down.
FYI, I'm okay with most of the laws preventing bottom surgery until later in life, but the data is real.
That said, those studies were for general population, and identification rates have skyrocketed. Those numbers may change.
And this is the kind of sheer lunacy that's being normalized here; from the Daily Fail:
New documentary shows pediatrician saying prepubescent kids are ready for trans hormone therapy 'whenever they ask for it' and claiming you can 'pause' hormones 'like music' with the same drugs used to chemically castrate pedophiles
Read the whole article, because it's truly "stunning" how degenerate these people actually are, and it's their beliefs being pushed in schools on kids who don't have the emotional or intellectual sophistication to resist such brainwashing (which is why these gender marxists target them in the first place).
And of course, the bitch promoting this has colored hair.
The telling thing about the troon cult is how they blatantly admit that preventing puberty is an unnatural act--you're literally trying to stop a normal biological process that's taken place in humans as they've aged for millions of years, in order to fulfill this dumb delusion or fetish you have that you're actually the opposite of your innate physical biology.
You are entirely missing Scott's point. She is pissed that a well known conservative, gay, married, Jewish, father of 2, Dave Rubin, is on stage tonight in Orlando with handsome, married, father of 2, decorated US Naval JAG, successful governor of FL, Ron DeSantis. You need to be a gay man to read Miss Scott Shackford: who's face would stop a raging Rottweiler, his posterior is so fat and large that no gay man would want to touch that, and his obesity has shrunk his appendage from the average 5.5" to 3". Scott is pissed no one is appreciating how divine she thinks she is, hence using children as her shield.
Hey Scott: contact Dave Rubin to get you an interview with Ron DeSantis. Pro-tip: you'll need to butch it up, and act manly
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They need to stop physical maturation until the kids are 16 so they can fulfill their fantasy of fucking children without committing a felony.
I increasingly wonder if this is correct. There is definitely something very destructive and hateful driving it.
I struggle to figure out what the motivation for this is. Nobody wants to put on the tinfoil hat, because you can never take it off, but I'm at a loss for a benign explanation.
If you could only embrace post-modernism, and accept that there is no objective reality, you would understand how a reality based on ideologically-biased feelings is best.
I also question if medical activists know any better.
If they think children have the ability to consent to mutilating themselves, then they don't know better.
medical activists
Did you mean medical doctors? Activists will do as they do, their lives being so empty they must fill them with activism. Doctors should know better, but they do not. Maybe they had to cram too much in med school. Maybe doctors as a class of people avoid philosophy. Doctors push a lot of junk, and have pushed a lot of junk in the past. You should be skeptical of anything a doctor says. Even if they are objectively correct about something, you can't trust them. They are too certain of their superiority, too invested in the hours spent learning to admit that maybe what they're trying to sell you is just junk.
I think we need to choose a moderate position. Obviously some things are inappropriate for children to learn in public schools but the government also has a responsibility to educate our children. At what age would it be appropriate to teach a child about safe fisting techniques or the dangers of snowballing santorum? We have to consider personal health and hygiene when having these sex education discussions in the classroom.
If kids are not taught about the joys of fisting, BDSM, and being a pony boy at a young age, they might never discover those joys on their own and end up being repressed or something. They might turn into normal, well adjusted, productive human beings instead of sex obsessed freaks like Scott. No one wants that.
"the government also has a responsibility to educate our children"
Yeah... Cause only the FORCE/THREAT of Gov-Guns can educate children /s.
Snowballing Rick Santorum?
Woof!! sign me up!
I’m guessing sweater vests are among your turn ons?
Fine. Then let's also choose a moderate position on rape, since it relates to sexual desires that some people find normal.
The Mises Caucus plank on this is "Recognizing that rape is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration." This is in keeping with their Women are not individuals and Spike-Knapp only anarchists are allowed to murder people plank.
They actually took that plank out.
It's called "socialism". "Hey, girl, between you and me we have one vagina, socialism obligates you to share!"
Indeed.
Perhaps the worst example is TRANSGENDER BATHROOM PANIC. In this phenomenon, some ciswomen are so bigoted, so hateful, that they actually think they're entitled to bathrooms and locker rooms in which they never have to see cocks or balls. It's like, can you imagine the arrogance?
I'm glad gay cismen like Scott use their platforms to tell these women how ridiculous they're being. They should feel no discomfort whatsoever showering a few feet away from a transwoman's semi-erection.
#TransWomenAreWomen
I'm glad gay cismen like Scott use their platforms to tell these
womenunderage "girls" how ridiculous they're being.FIFY.
I don't want to talk to six year old kids about the joys of anal sex or take showers with unwilling women. So, I am not quite sure how banning all of that is supposed to be bad for my liberty.
unwilling women
Again, people keep saying 'women' when the discussion, both conceptually and pragmatically, applies to the abject weakest members of society, SJW hierarchy or not. The TX AG is under-informed, panicky, and confused. He needs to listen to Scott, who's got it figured out and is certain that what poor, under-educated, gender-confused, pre-teen, black girls need is more women with penises in the locker rooms to set an example for them.
Set them straight with arguments forcefully propounded until the climax of the session after which the stronger of them will go have a beer and the eeaker will cry from having lost.
Women?
Are you a biologist?
The TERF wars are real, baby!
Can we expect a new line of toys? TERF balls? TERF guns? TERF ball guns?
Yes, and related injuries like TERF toe.
"11 states passed their own constitutional bans against recognition that fall."
That's funny how; Government 'recognition' is such a prize it can be granted the banned label. Next Up; How illegal trespasser's are getting "banned" from amnesty citizenship...... 🙂
Does anyone not know why these idiotic battles are forming?????
One entity has ALL the POWER.... (Gov)... This is very typically of tyrannical-government nations. The middle-east and their endless civil wars are direct reflections of Gov-Imposed Religion. A Power-Mad "Democracy" is no different. (i.e. [WE] mob RULES Nation.)
When everything goes through ONE all-authoritarian POWER entity; it because the BIGGEST value there is and everyone is chasing to be the WINNER of such great POWER while the BIGGEST threat is also to be found on the LOSER side... This is Pre-Civil War 101 and it's path has been paved well here in the USA... 3-Centuries ago people lived this POWER-MAD nightmare and found *freedom* from in a new nation. To ensure the POWER-MAD didn't form again they produced the U.S. Constitution (written dictation / not a political vote "democracy")... A written dictation by The People OVER the power of "democracy" POWER-MAD.... That is what makes (or at least tries to) the USA so great.
NONE of what is being discussed here is an authority of this CONSTITUTIONAL Union of Republican States Government... It's *all* ILLEGAL by the people's law over them. Patriotic Rand Paul said it best....
https://reason.com/2014/10/03/rand-paul-i-dont-want-my-guns-registered/
Tytler's Cycle.
DeSantis and allied lawmakers have barred Florida educators from any instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity with young students at all, and they have restricted how teachers can approach those subjects in the higher grades. Parents are authorized to seek financial damages from school districts if they believe teachers or staff are discussing LGBT topics inappropriately—and what's inappropriate is defined so vaguely that all sorts of unobjectionable conversations could prompt a suit. Some Florida schools have even started removing children's books like I Am Jazz from their libraries because they featured trans characters. It's not clear that the law actually requires such removals, but the possibility of lawsuits encourages districts to interpret the restrictions broadly.
There is so much to unpack from that statement. Shackford is so sick and obsessed with children's sexuality, he can't tolerate the state deciding that six and seven year old kids should not be taught about sex and shown porn in schools. Understand, people like Scott can still adopt children and show them all the porn and have all of the graphic talks about sex they want. But that isn't enough for Scott. The schools must be showing porn and telling kids they are trans and it is okay to have sex with adults or the dark night of fascism has fallen on America.
Back when the debate was going on about letting gays live openly and be accepted people said that you couldn't do that because gays would come after your kids. I always thought that was a crazy argument. Yet, here we are 40 years later and we have Scott Shackford as exhibit A in the case for "no culture war worse case scenery is ever too crazy and sick not to come true."
Scott is exhibit B, exhibit A would be the San Francisco gay men's choir singing "we're coming for your children" with a sizable portion of the choir being made up of sex offenders. Like the women's prison rapes, some things are OK with Scott so long as he gets his groomer way
Pedophilia is SOO sophisticated.
"DeSantis and allied lawmakers have barred Florida educators from any instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity with young students at all,"
How young Scott? Oh 5-9 year olds? Please make a statement to me that "I wish to allow instruction on sexuality and gender identity for 5 year olds" and tell me it doesnt sound very groomerie.
You know what else is groomery? Jesus camp.
Cool, so I prescribe the same solution to the left wing pedo groomers as your supposed "Jesus camp groomers"...not allowed in school.
Thanks for making the case extremely simple.
You know what else is groomery? Jesus camp.
Good thing Jesus camp is neither mandatory nor funded involuntarily by taxpayers.
Religion = grooming.
Just come out of the closet and start advocating for the state to raise children after the age of 3. You know it's what you really want to do.
I am so glad you are a former libertarian, now you are a full fledges TROLL.
Do you ever make intelligent comments??
This really was a willfully blind article by Scott. He uses books like I Am Jazz as an example and ignores the books showing kids giving men blow jobs in graphic form.
He ignores the explosion of claims of T, teachers on tik tok openly talking about grooming kids, teachers bragging they've turned kids trans, etc.
He ignores long term effects of permanent surgeries.
I can't wait for his review of Daily Wires What Is A Woman where they interview trans activist doctors who tell the interviewer who is male they may be female if they like scented candles. This is the fucking industry Scott. Don't be ignorant. There is plenty of material out there for you to review.
Have you looked at what "I am Jazz" is about? It reads like a recruitment tool to try to get boys to transition as kindergartners.
I completely agree. But Scott chose one of the more sanitary books to mention here when there are far worse. The Florida bill be mentions talks about sexualization of children, not purely transitioning them. The story of Jazz is one of abuse where he was put on television with men throwing dollar bills at him on stage as a minor. It is wrong. His grooming is wrong. But Scott still tried to sanitize the actual issue with that book. There are far worse examples he intentionally ignores.
There are far worse examples he intentionally ignores.
What he doesn't say says more than what he actually says. Heck, what he says can be ignored because he didn't say what he really means, which is [insert strawman here].
At least you're consistent.
I thought you never initiated trolling.
I'm using examples from school board meetings you fucking idiot. The books actually be protested. But you're such a fucking troll you have to needlessly interject.
Do you deny worse books exist? That the reaction to the indoctrination wasn't based on just the one book but many?
Youre such a trolling hack sarc.
I'm pointing out how you are consistent in ascribing motivations to people and saying what they really believe.
No where did I say what Scott actually meant you retarded fuck. I pointed out he is avoiding the books presented at school board meetings that initiated the laws.
You are one dumb piece of shit.
Scott's entire motivation here is decrying laws like the Florida laws. He has written many books about it. He has incorrectly described it as the font say gay bill multiple times. Hos motivations are clear and consistent.
You are really not a smart person. It is just amazing watching you and your need to troll.
Are you now in denial of his past articles?? Do you need citations to those as well?
God dam. Youre a moron.
Many articles, not books
"I pointed out he is avoiding the books presented at school board meetings that initiated the laws."
You said he's doing it intentionally. That means you know what he does, why he does it, what he thinks, and what he really means.
He is doing it intentionally dumbass. Holy fuck. These books are well known. Even the NYT discussed them but refused to show the images.
It's just a typical example of your "What a person doesn't say means more than what they do say" style argumentation. I call it strawman slaying.
You really struggle with reading comprehension dont you.
As much as he struggles with his feelings for you.
Jesse, he’s not trolling. He’s flirting. Sarc is in love with you. Notice how he never mutes you? It’s certainly not healthy. Kind of like the bizarre fixation Joker has with Batman.
He doesn't even make sense. Has the reading comprehension of an illiterate kindergartener.
Seriously though, he muted me and a number of other people. Not you. And he’s always right there when you comment. I’m not joking when I say you’re probably the closest thing he has to a friend.
Can you imagine anyone in his real life tolerating his presence for more than a few minutes?
The story of Jazz is one of abuse where he was put on television with men throwing dollar bills at him on stage as a minor.
No, that was Desmond Is Amazing, who's pretty well-known for his parents using him as pedo-bait; Jazz is the kid whose munchie Mom transitioned him so that he could be her little tranny purse pet, and in the end he blew up to gargantuan proportions, had to go back for multiple surgeries because his crotch was mutilated by a tranny butcher "doctor," and is on about 20 different drug prescriptions.
So, totally "normal" then.
had to go back for multiple surgeries because his crotch was mutilated by a tranny butcher "doctor,"
I refuse on principle to research this, but wasn't the reason for the multiple surgeries that his puberty blockers made it so his organ was literally too small to conduct a sex change? I remember that being the gist of a "COMING SOON! MUCH DRAMA!" TLC commercial a few years back and I about bust a gut after overhearing it.
I refuse on principle to research this, but wasn't the reason for the multiple surgeries that his puberty blockers made it so his organ was literally too small to conduct a sex change?
Yep, he had a micropeen from the puberty blockers so the doctor had to use stomach lining to make his True and Honest Vagina.
Also if you dont think his stomach / micropeen-grave vagina is attractive you are a bigot.
All these shows normalizing grooming are disgusting. The fact that multiple shows exist is even worse.
Jazz is big as a house too now.
And the hell of all this is that when children are deliberately sexualized by the wider society (or authority figures), I'm afraid that also contributes to a reaction that fears all possible connections of sex with children, no matter how innocent. So we wind up with an environment in which it's considered a good thing that children are forcibly confronted with gender-ism, far-fetched sexual feelings, and so on, while adults are afraid of teen sexting, friendship between adults and children, child nudity, etc.
Yes, and this results in absurd contradictions, like when teachers are fired and prosecuted for having sex with a high school student, while the student, instead of facing disciplinary action for having sex with a teacher, is considered a "victim" incapable of consent or of enjoying sex. Then, if the student wants to "transition", suddenly they're capable of deciding for themselves on life-altering "treatment" without the involvement of their parents.
"I am Jazz" isn't just a book that features a trans character. It's an autobiographical book aimed at young kids telling the story of someone who transitioned in kindergarten. It's exactly the type of material the bill was aimed at because it simplifies gender identity down to concepts like, "I really liked pink and sparkles and rainbows so I knew I was a girl."
Do you think that's potentially harmful for boys who aren't stereotypical? Boys who might like playing with Barbies instead of GI Joes but are still boys? This is not appropriate for suggestible children ages 4-8 even though it's the target audience.
That is maybe the sickest thing about transgenderism. While claims to make gender fluid, it actually enforces the worst stereotypes about gender. Transgenderism any girl who is a bit masculine or boy who is a bit feminine not to accept themselves as they are but that are freaks who are really the other sex. It is sick and evil and I absolutely loath people like Scott for pushing it.
As a non-Newtonian transfluid, you have no right to dictate what I teach your children in school.
Non-Newtonian transfluid… lmao
"Transitioning" is the most extreme expression of sexism possible.
I'm flabbergasted that that's happened. How did women's lib proceed into its opposite as if it were just the normal progression of, I don't know...tolerance?
Imagine if that'd happened with racial tolerance. Would white or Oriental people of low intelligence be told they were "actually black"? Would smart blacks be told they were actually white or Oriental?
Even worse, imagine if that'd happened with religious tolerance. Like if people who eschewed antisemitism were told they must "actually" be Jews.
Like if people who eschewed antisemitism were told they must "actually" be Jews.
That's Misek's position.
It's exactly the type of material the bill was aimed at because it simplifies gender identity down to concepts like, "I really liked pink and sparkles and rainbows so I knew I was a girl."
One of the more interesting facets of troon subculture, especially with males, is that they argue that gender identity is fluid, all the while perpetuating the most traditional stereotypes of how women are supposed to dress and act--unless you piss them off, then their natural male aggression kicks in and they threaten to beat you up, like Robert Tur did to Ben Shapiro.
I’ve heard ‘Jazz’ is completely fucked up now. Clinical depression, a hundred pound weight gain, etc.. because of the ‘transition’.
The reason these freaks are constantly demanding positive affirmation from everyone is because they expected that trooning out would magically solve their problems, similar to the type of idiot parents in a bad marriage who think having a kid will make their relationship better, and end up bitterly disappointed that mutilating their crotch didn't result in an unending string of five-star days. That's also why you see them massively overcompensating about their mental health on social media.
"bitterly disappointed that mutilating their crotch didn't result in an unending string of five-star days."
And while this is actually the case for so many, it is only taught in this glowing, happy light and none of the crippling depression is ever mentioned by these teachers.
"That doesn't change when the surgeries involve teen genitals rather than teen noses. Critics of these treatments believe youths are permanently disfiguring their bodies, but supporters retort that denying trans kids the treatments they want..."
While I would question the psychological state of a parent allowing early cosmetic surgery for a kid, I can certainly think of a few kids that had some extremely fucked up noses growing up that might have been so self conscious it might have been worthwhile. But even for this kind of stuff, its not a healthy atmosphere when you are physically altering a child to make them feel better.
But when it comes to altering genitalia either physically or through hormone therapy, rational people should be able to see this is an absolutely higher level of danger/change to a child. You wouldn't allow a kid to cut of a pinky because it would make them feel better and theres a good chance they would be just fine without, and also he feels that having a pinky is bothering him. You would work on mental health interventions.
And if you are on the side of allowing a child that wants to be an astronaut or the president or Ironman decide they also dont need reproductive organs while they are at an age we have agreed they shouldnt be allowed to smoke or drink...then I have no reason to do anything but make sure you never have any kind of political power.
The conflation of nasal surgery, cosmetic or otherwise, is more uninformed than anything the AG has done. The AG may not know medical science, Scott's trying to actively refute it. Parents and medical specialists suggesting teens and pre-teens undergo rhinoplasty to convert their nose into an ear or a beak should absolutely be subject to legal action.
Let the kids be dragons. Use cosmetic surgery to do it.
Otherkin rights are human rights!
I want kryptonian super powers. That’s how I identify.
The conflation of nasal surgery, cosmetic or otherwise, is more uninformed than anything the AG has done.
^This. A far more apt comparison to gender surgery than rhinoplasty would be a kid identifying with Voldemort and wanting to remove his nose and leave only nostril slits.
That's coming.
You bring up something the trans community refuses to admit. There is another community out there who also feel like they are in the wrong body. Those are people suffering from a mental condition that makes them desire to be crippled. There are instances of them cutting off appendages or seeking to paralyze themselves. They have the same traights as the trans community. Will Scott openly endorse supporting the disfigurement from this group?
I think Scott will do whatever the woke movement wants. He lacks both a brain and a spine.
There is another community out there who also feel like they are in the wrong body.
*An*other? There are tons of teen and pre-teen males out there who live in bodies that are several inches short and several dozen pounds of muscle light of their perceived selves. If you provide them with the gender-appropriate hormones to realize their potential or compounds that will help them reach their potential without substantially affecting their otherwise normal development, you can and will be thrown in jail. If they're in your care and even allow them to do so, you can and will go to jail. There are tons of teen and pre-teen girls out there who live in bodies that are several inches short and several pounds of fat too heavy of their perceived selves. If you indulge their perceptions and fail to prevent them from destroying their normal development, you can and will go to jail. There are tons of teens and pre-teens out there locked into social roles are far more passive than what they would prefer or perceive. If you indulge their delusions or facilitate their desire to live out their more aggressive behavior, you can and will go to jail. There are tons of teens and pre-teens out there under the perception they can fly, effectively turn invisible, are bulletproof, seduce women and girls, etc., etc., etc.
"If you provide them with the gender-appropriate hormones to realize their potential or compounds that will help them reach their potential without substantially affecting their otherwise normal development, you can and will be thrown in jail. If they're in your care and even allow them to do so, you can and will go to jail. There are tons of teen and pre-teen girls out there who live in bodies that are several inches short and several pounds of fat too heavy of their perceived selves. If you indulge their perceptions and fail to prevent them from destroying their normal development, you can and will go to jail."
This is probably the best and most clarifying argument to present to anyone that is for allowing this kind of stuff. Indulging a roidhead teen boy or anorexic teen girl would get you thrown in jail, but somehow we should be allowed to help them castrate themselves.
How about [shudder] deaf culture?
I think this is important. Someone goes to the doctor and asks that a healthy leg be amputated they get a referral to a psychiatrist, but if they want their healthy penis amputated, they are congratulated and scheduled for surgery.
This sounds like a very slippery slope. First you'll ban gender confirmation surgeries by claiming they cause harm to a trans-child. Then you'll probably end up attacks circumcision as a violation of personal autonomy. I have no patience for anti-Semites. #StopHate #ADL
“Gender confirmation surgery?” Please, let’s stop with the euphemisms. To quote Oscar Wilde: let us call things by their proper names; it makes matters simpler.
What you are talking about is replacing the genitals one was born with with man-made genitals. You may well see nothing wrong with that, and may well agree that an individual has the right to engage in this type of surgery if he or she chooses. But to compare that radical reconstruction of one’s body to a nose job is like comparing a tetanus shot to open heart surgery. No one would suggest having open heart surgery on a whim or because it’s trendy.
Scott, that was a really bad analogy.
Infant circumcision is a violation of bodily integrity, but because it is so bound to culture and relatively harmless (or even arguably beneficial), it's just not a fight worth having in the legislative arena. I sympathize with those who work against it through persuasion.
But when it comes to altering genitalia either physically or through hormone therapy, rational people should be able to see this is an absolutely higher level of danger/change to a child. You wouldn't allow a kid to cut of a pinky because it would make them feel better and theres a good chance they would be just fine without, and also he feels that having a pinky is bothering him. You would work on mental health interventions.
There's this wierdo in Japan who recently bought a collie costume because he actually thinks he's a dog, and didn't want to live like a human being anymore.
Post-industrial society really is a mentally and emotionally destabilizing force.
The year is 2022, and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is spearheading another moral panic...The contours and players of today's LGBT panics are different, but the underlying conflict is not new.
If I was writing an article explaining why sex education for elementary school students was part of a public school's mission and Ron DeSantis's executive actions constituted fomenting a moral panic, I would probably build a contemporary case rather than just smear my opponent. At least you didn't call it the Don't Say Gay bill.
True he didn't say "don't say Gay" but the rest of his representation of the law is just as bad and full of lies
Wrong. The conflict over genderism is new and has nothing to do with reaction to previous sexual liberation movements. Look at how many Gs and Ls have a problem with genderism to see this.
It's the modern version of the paranoid old idea that the LGBT community grows by recruiting the young.
Leftists do not reproduce in the bedroom, they reproduce in the classroom.
...and their "reproducing in the classroom" is Gov-Gun FORCED funded <--- The very base of the problem...
Why are Gov-Gun Forces needed for education anyways???
The next time a parent is arrested for beating a kid to near death to teach a lesson, I’ll be awaiting Shackford’s piece reminding us that the state has no business telling parents how to raise their kids.
Sorry, wasn’t meant to be a response to anyone.
"The existence of detransitioners does not discredit trans-affirming treatments."
Except it does because trans-affirming treatments require the following:
1. Acceptance of dangerous, neo-Marxist gender ideology and critical theory.
2. Damaging and irreversible hormone treatments and medically unnecessary elective surgeries.
When people de-transition and realize that the ideology was junk science that didn't apply to them, these people serve as living proof that these are ideas. Not facts, not biological truths, just opinions. Opinions you are free to hold, but not opinions that society has any interest in encouraging as the damage is permanent. "De-transitioning" is in and of itself a misnomer because most people who de-transition are not able to negate the damage done to their minds and bodies.
Given how dangerous the ideology is, it shouldn't be encouraged for consenting adults, never mind children.
There is zero comparison between teaching children that it's okay to be gay and that it's okay to destroy your reproductive system and natural hormonal imbalance because a bunch of insane Marxists had way too much time on their hands in college.
A little more "hate" from Florida - - - -
https://thefederalist.com/2022/06/02/florida-medicaid-deems-experimental-mutilative-sex-surgeries-hormones-insufficiently-safe-for-coverage/
(or maybe it is actually science?)
The last 15 years have reminded me quite a bit of the Twilight Zone episode of the town with a kid who has a literal will to power, and the adults are too afraid to make him upset by disciplining him or making him face reality because he'll harm anyone who makes him feel bad.
"Either way, the stakes are higher—and that makes it more important that families be able to make these decisions without political interference."
I actually agree with Scott here. I think the decision to transition should be between a kid and their parents. That is, of course, why his position on the Florida laws is so disingenuous.
In case Scott missed this fact, Schools are government institutions. And teachers are agents of the state. And Teachers are pushing an extremely controversial Trans agenda on kids. And books like "I am Jazz", which are targeted towards children as young as 4, are part of that campaign. This should be up to parents and their kids, but instead Scott wants the government controlling this message.
Depending on which survey you read, anywhere from 16% to 20% of Generation Z are identifying as Trans. In a way it is exactly the proof of the argument that Trans people have tried to make: That gender is a socially reinforced construct. But if it is socially reinforced, then parents, not some random agent of the government, get to decide how that social upbringing will work.
In your view does transition include permanent medical treatments that alter a kids body? Do you not see how this is dangerous?
It is a quick hop skip and a jump to parents allowing their kids to have sex with adults.
Kids are emotionally malleable. They are effected by their parents. They can be groomed.
In the case of the trans community this comes with life altering changes.
A parent has a duty not unlike a fiduciary or Trustee to care for the upbringing of their kids. While this is a serious responsibility, it is also one that is open to a lot of latitude. I see parents all the time raising their children in ways that may or may not help their future. From the religion they teach them, to the screen time they allow, to the supervision they give them. There are millions of strategies and non-strategies in play.
Of course, there is a point where sub-optimal child-rearing borders on or becomes child abuse. This is especially true when we are talking about things like withholding or giving medical care.
One of the largest social pathologies we grapple with today is that we continue to confuse "parent's raising their kids in a way I deem unworthy" with "child abuse". It is why kids can't be alone in a park, and old ladies will scream at a mom for not rear-facing her kid in a child seat if they are under 16. Spend some time reading the prurient mommies blogs and you will see this obsession with describing different preferences as straight up abuse.
Part of insisting that I be free to raise my kids as I see fit is understanding that parents are going to raise their kids differently. I see a difference between a mother who is genuinely trying to grapple with a child's sexuality and a father who is pursuing his own sexual gratification using his kids as a mechanism. The latter is clearly a breach of trust- flagrant use of the child for the parents' own ends.
Teaching kids morality or social constructs is one thing. Those can be modified as a child matures, finds a social group, and changes their belief system. We see this with religious upbringing all the time. It is not the same as the trans community which teaches kids to shun their parents, shun other social groups and identify solely with a cult like entity. I am also against female castration in the Muslim world. It is not unique to only the trans community, but they do push more permanent solutions that most other forms of social education derived from parenting. They are not the same.
"It is not the same as the trans community which teaches kids to shun their parents, shun other social groups and identify solely with a cult like entity."
Completely agree. Children aren't wards of "Communities". They are wards of their parents. That the Trans community and agents of the state (Teachers) are trying to interfere with this trust should be seen as Deeply Creepy as Fuck (TM).
" It is not unique to only the trans community, but they do push more permanent solutions that most other forms of social education derived from parenting."
If you want my OPINION, parents should not make these sorts of life-altering decisions on the behalf of their children. They should do their best to defer such decisions as gender affirmation until the kid is old enough to make their own decisions. Also, if you want my OPINION, telling a boy that he is a girl because he likes pink and cooking is a terrible way to raise your children. Even if that only includes having them dress up as girls.
On the other hand, I think a state empowered to interfere in either of those cases is bound to cause far more harm than letting some urban woman indulge little Tanner's childish fantasies. A small number of kids are going to be raised horribly by their parents and have to spend a lot of money unwinding it with their therapists. that is not my problem.
What is my problem is the indoctrination going on in school. The more prudent approach is to get the fucking trans community out of schools. Which is why I tend to support the Florida AB law, while not supporting the prosecution of parents who elect to do gender affirming medical procedures.
I would add that you're conveniently skipping a big part of the equation that is rather on display, front-and-center, in Scott's position. The "States AG's don't understand medical science, I and my state-certified activist physician do." argument. There is very much a case to be had that any physician performing such acts have their license revoked and any parents taking action based on that certification be, varyingly, investigated for their culpability and/or remunerated for any deception. Just as we would, generally, grant licenses to doctors to provide abortion services, and have laws and standards on the books to prevent said doctors from performing high risk abortions in quasi-amateur, unsanitary conditions. The solution may be not to issue more licenses in the first place, but that doesn't solve the armchair amateur child psychologist/surgeon problem.
There are some sick fucking doctors out there. In my experience I have discovered that while many doctors are fine individuals, it also attracts the type of narcissistic sadists that enjoy playing god. Such as certain abortion doctors and that individual who stitched his initials into some woman's body.
It should be the responsibility of parents to protect their kids from these sick individuals. That some parents become sucked into the sick fantasies of these modern day Rasputins is not a small problem. But it is also a problem that I don't think these kulture warz AGs are actually fighting.
Prosecute the shit out of TEACHERS that are indoctrinating kids, and this issue becomes a tiny problem in blue states.
What's the difference between "gender affirming treatment" for minors and sexual abuse of minors?
If they're to young to consent to the latter, they're too young to consent to the former.
This is where parents must be left to act on behalf of their kids. My youngest daughter has started talking a LOT about this trans gender stuff. She is in Cub Scouts, and seems to be confused that because she like activities like camping, whittling and other "boy scouts" stuff, that makes her a boy. My kid isn't confused about her sexuality. People are confusing her by telling her certain activities mean she thinks she is a boy. This is why I am so focused on the Trans-agenda in schools. These are real conversations happening on playgrounds between 10 year olds and potentially teachers, and it is being pushed by ideologues.
But I navigated this issue with a deep intimate knowledge of my kid, because I know her. I know she isn't suffering dysphoria, but rather getting confused on labels. While I feel that the majority of "Trans" kids these days are probably suffering the same confusion, I also feel the best people to figure that out are the parents.
I am sure there are parents out there who know their kid very well and do believe they have a dysphoria on their hands. And as caretaker for those kids, they have the right and duty to address that individually with their kids. Of course some parents are letting their personal SJW cause cloud their thoughts. Others are just fucking crazy and manipulative. I am not interested in the State sussing out those cases, because it inevitably means it will also decide to opine on my kids' experience as well.
This is where women's lib had it right. As linguists have always known, gender is arbitrary, a societal construct, while sex is real. Who twisted this around so that sex could be socially manipulated by the simple expedient of calling it "gender", which we know is arbitrary?
Another way is to point out that the bell curve includes its tails.
Being a tranny is a bullshit psychological condition. There is no biological science to back any of this up.
Adults are going to have to take back the reigns on everything before long, and put down the left. Enough is enough.
Depending on which survey you read, anywhere from 16% to 20% of Generation Z are identifying as Trans.
I think it has more to do with outcasts finding a home than actually identifying as trans. When I was in school they'd just wear black and listen to The Cure. That's reversable. This is not.
Yeah, seems like that must account for most of it. Back in the day they would have been punks and art-fags or whatever. Now there's a new social phenomenon for the most alienated and unhappy kids to latch onto. For many (most I would guess) it will be a passing phase. Which makes the big push for hormones and body modification a pretty terrible idea.
I tend to agree here, though I believe the best case scenario is to approach the indoctrination in school, and if Hillary Hyphen-Name wants to let poor Hyacinth chop off their dick, well it will be a problem they live with. Just stop fucking with *my* kids' heads.
I agree that's the appropriate level for government to address it on.
In a perfect scenario, they WOULD leave your kids alone, and not demand that everyone else not just go along with the dick-chopping, but celebrate it and infer that any kid who doesn't feel "comfortable" physically is actually transgender.
But that's not what's happening here. The "libertarian" solution doesn't work in this instance because there's one side actively and aggressively pushing their cultish and mentally ill delusions in to the mainstream and normalizing it.
So we get laws like what was passed in Florida, which as you've pointed out on the culture war as a general concept, is a direct result of that side completely overreaching on their demands.
I think you are conflating two issues here. Schools and the curriculum they teach need to be at the direction of parents. That is the libertarian solution. And so, as a libertarian, I have no problem with DeSantis doing everything in his power to get this bullshit out of the class rooms.
The second issue is prosecuting parents for gender-affirming medical procedures. I do not agree that the state ought to be involved here. If my neighbor decides to chop off their kids' organs, it is not my concern.
Again, I think you're being selectively naive about the fact that this isn't strictly a 'parents and kids' issue. It's being pushed in relatively private sports, on private businesses, and, rather explicitly, in religious communities. Certainly, prosecuting parents for making personal parenting decisions isn't the right solution but the problem is much wider than just families making personal decisions and living with them.
I don't think I am being naive here. I am approaching the problems as they come up. I agree that there are further reaching issues, and we can approach each of them as they come. As you note, for example, prosecuting parents isn't going to make Hollywood stop pushing gender bending queer theory on kids.
I discuss these two specific cases not because I believe them to be the totality of this social issue, but specifically because they were examples Shackford rose and ALSO because they are an example of Shackford being unprincipled. He wants the medical decisions on this controversial subject to be free of state interference, but wants the state free to push their own view of this controversial subject on kids against parents' wishes. It is not consistent.
How is choosing to cut off your kids penis less worse than physically abusing them for acting up? Should the state allow parents to actively hurt their children?
First, let's note that the number of cases where a minor is undergoing irreversible surgeries is extremely small. Even among males getting surgery, it isn't castration, but rather getting implants- which is reversible. I am not trying to say there is no problem here, but that many, many, many parents and their kids are making these trans decisions that do not include mutilation of their reproductive organs.
That said, if I had to offer an opinion on this, it would be that irreversible medical intervention like hormone therapy and genital mutilation are not in the best interest of the child. Doing so because you as a parent feel it makes you a good person is obviously abuse. Of course I also think smacking a kid for being disrespectful *can* be in the best interest of a kid, while others would consider that abuse. There is not going to be a clear line to be drawn.
I also want to note that while I would expect to agree with you on where the lines of abuse are drawn, in practice this is much different.
We know what neglect and abuse look like, and yet when Child Protective Services enforces those lines, all sorts of evil arrises. I am 100% certain that government does far more harm to kids in the name of harm prevention than the actual abuse they were created to stop.
The government is not good at this. They need to be out of it completely.
The problem with prosecuting parents is mens rea. If you were in a cult and you honestly believed that children should be deprived of vitamin B-12 or that they needed to be tattooed to get into the afterlife, should you be criminally liable for such bad judgment? Should criminal law operate on a "should have known" standard rather than a "deliberately went out of your way to avoid chances to see opposing evidence" one?
Right, and in addition, I have very little faith in the government's ability to justly identify what you "should have known" vs is a passing fad among arrogant Top Men that never have to live with the consequences of their pseudo-science.
"and if Hillary Hyphen-Name wants to let poor Hyacinth [fuck his/her step-dad], well it will be a problem they live with."
I see this as (1) a fad typical for every wave of adolescence and (2) a reflection of consistent messaging that young people are fragile, and that salvation is only through embracing the progressive ideology.
Scott's position on this issue has been consistently disingenuous. He can't be honest.
"I am Jazz" is not merely a book that features a trans character. It's a book aimed at children 4-8 that tells the story of someone born male that really like pink and princesses and unicorns, and decided he must be a girl. So her parents allowed her socially transition in kindergarten because she didn't fit the stereotype of being a boy. It's fucking terrible messaging that reinforces gender stereotypes, and its goal is clearly recruitment. I don't know how you can describe it any other way. It actively tells boys that they either like GI Joe and Tonka trucks, or else they need to chop off their dicks.
Scott downplays the fact that there are real detransitioners who have serious regrets by citing a study among people who still consider themselves trans and members of the trans community. That's not super effective at finding people who have serious regrets about transitioning and learning how prevalent it is.
Scott misrepresents what the bill says-it talks about limiting instructional material to what is consistent with state standards. He says this is overly vague, but the fact is that there are actual state standards for sex education which clearly lay out what is appropriate for what ages. If Scott doesn't like those specific standards he should go after the standards, not the legislation that says teachers have to stick to the standards.
It also ignores the current condition of Jazz: depressed, on a steady diet of pills that she'll never get off, gained a ton of weight due to meds, effed up fake vagina, low libido, and unable to have a normal sexual relationship. She's had multiple surgeries to construct a "vagina" where there wasn't one, and it's a horror show that she had to live with forever.
They conveniently leave all that part out.
Maybe some compromise could be made. Something like:
Public schools can teach kids that transgender people exist and that it is a real thing. But they also have to teach about what gender dysphoria is, how completely riddled with anxiety/depression/suicide the trans community is, and that if you go down that path its almost certainly a recipe to have a depressed life, complicated sex life (putting it mildly), extreme difficulty ever finding a partner, and a high chance of offing yourself because of how miserable you will be.
The problem its taught to impressionable kids who by their nature are not sure of themselves and are malleable, by an activist cheerleader who makes it sound like rainbows, unicorns, and happiness.
how about the schools properly teach math, science, reading, etc. and leave the sex education up to the parents. it has no place in schools because you're assuming that the parents approve of said teaching and because it wastes time that could be spent on more valuable studies.
Oh, sure. A bigotted, 50s-era, white, male Christiano-fascist (Christo-fascist?) conservative like yourself would reinforce negative gender roles by sending the message "Abstinence is the best policy." and leaving it at that.
it has nothing do with you're agreement or disagreement with the sex teaching. it will always have conflict with parents ideas and is completely inefficient. leave it to parents and you avoid all the conflict and save massive amounts of money & time for better purposes. even if i though the schools could or would do a good job teaching this i would oppose it based on the efficiency argument. are you a leftist who believes that everything good must be done by the government? can you not consider that this is a subject best left to the parents?
I think he was just yankin yer chain
I figured the inability to commit to Christo- or Christiano- fascists *combined* with the simultaneous derision of someone for perpetuating negative stereotypes/gender roles while calling them a bigoted white male was a dead giveaway.
I keep forgetting that Tony is less and less of an outlier around these parts.
"how about the schools properly teach math, science, reading, etc. and leave the sex education up to the parents."
This is of course what we would and should be doing if we werent dealing with the insanity and delusion of mentally ill activists.
He will probably end up killing himself.
"It's fucking terrible messaging that reinforces gender stereotypes, and its goal is clearly recruitment. I don't know how you can describe it any other way. It actively tells boys that they either like GI Joe and Tonka trucks, or else they need to chop off their dicks."
I completely agree. And the opposite, as well. The brand name for the trans clothing line being pushed by Target is "Tomboy". Because if a girl likes climbing trees and playing baseball, they must be trans?
What happened with Jazz Jennings is that his mom didn't really want to accept that her little toddler was either going through a phase, or was flamboyantly gay, and decided to find a psychiatrist to confirm that Jazz (whose real name is actually Jared Bloshinsky) was actually a girl born in a boy's body.
I've read more on it. It sounds like the mother is legitimately crazy, and pushed this onto her child in order to garner attention. It's nearly Munchausen-by-proxy. Seems like the mother wanted plaudits for just how trans-friendly and accepting she was of her child's sexual identity by actively pushing her son to transition, and this is creating tons of mental issues for the kid. Maybe she wanted the Guiness Record for having the youngest-ever transitioned child, which is almost sick in itself.
And Scott wants you to read their book aimed at recruiting more kids and telling them how to identify as trans in kindergarten. I really feel bad for this child, like the children of most reality-tv parents. She found a way to become famous by exploiting and damaging her kid.
Yeah, ban that book. I'm fine with it.
"It sounds like the mother is legitimately crazy, and pushed this onto her child in order to garner attention. It's nearly Munchausen-by-proxy."
This is where we are perhaps getting to the point where a parent is violating the fiduciary duty they have to their kid- just as a father who sexually abuses their children does the same.
However...I also think this is a very difficult case to prove. I think a state that is able to interfere in this case would also be allowed to interfere in parents ability to follow certain religious practices as well. It is a very grey line, and I would rather a couple parents and their kids living with their fucked up lives than risk a state weaponized in such a way. Liberals are great at turning those states against conservatives (c.f. patriot act and trump).
I can accept that it's a grey line, and it's ideally one where medical professionals would use their own ethics to look at what's going on with the mother.
My only point is that we should keep this away from second-graders. They don't need to hear how stunning and brave it was for Jazz to stand up to exactly what her mother wanted by coming out as a girl and living as a girl to help her mom become famous. I also don't think we need books about the Duggar family in the school library teaching teenage girls to become reality tv stars by pumping out 18 babies. Let's let families who have exploited their children to become famous stand as role models for the youth.
Agree x100. The problem is the schools right now. Parents pushing on this their little snowflakes in tribeca is the least of our worries.
I would rather a couple parents and their kids living with their fucked up lives than risk a state weaponized in such a way.
^
The business about pink and princesses and unicorns vs. trucks reminds me of the song about the boy who wanted a doll. Grandma got him one, "So some day when he's a daddy, he'll know just what to do."
"Recruitment" is always a term you find in conspiracy theories. That shit gets gays bashed. Get it out of your mind, because it's insane and not happening. Gays and trans people don't need to recruit anyone. And even if they did, you could say the same about straights, who for some reason keep insisting that their kids are straight until proven otherwise.
There are actual data on trans regrets out there, though more study should be done. The vast majority of trans people don't regret it and feel their life has improved.
Even if that weren't the case, you're the libertarian advocating for the jackboot of government to make these decisions for people. Stop that or else just admit you love using state force.
Don’t worry Tony, eventually there will be a biological cure for all of this. Won’t that be great?
I don't think you know the first fucking thing about biology.
Sometimes, I think we forget that we're libertarians and not anarchists. Some form of a State is necessary and required.
When evil people murder and rape, do we say there shouldn't be laws, police, courts and jails because the process involves using State sanctioned force against individuals? No, because we realize the Wild West approach is inappropriate for dealing with evil.
Why are we treating trans ideology any differently? These kids have no idea what they're saying or getting into. You can't trust the parents. I rarely defer to the State for anything, but I would rather protect the children from their evil parents than leave it up to chance. Do you really think it's okay to have a generation of damaged, infertile mutants just so you can have a clean conscience that you didn't use govt power to interfere? Seriously?
Also, grooming children into troons is not proof that gender is socially constructed, at least not in the same sense that they want it to be understood as. Gender doesn't exist. It's pure insanity with no basis in truth or science. What you like and how you dress doesn't change your biological sex.
Gender is in some sense a social construction. But that doesn't mean that all social constructions are created equal. When you have a social construction that correlates almost perfectly with real biological sex, I think that's a sign that it is probably quite useful and beneficial in a functional human society.
Transgenderism relies heavily on subjectivity and post modernism. Libertarians should support the pillars of truth. Especially for the vulnerable such as children.
Truth is a tough thing to nail down. I'd rather say: stick to things that are broadly agreed upon, long lived and well tested.
Postmodernism isn't wrong about everything, and values are subjective. But that doesn't mean everything is equivalent or that it's wise to deliberately undermine existing institutions and traditions without being damn sure you have something better to replace them with.
Truth in biology as far as chromosomes is not a hard thing to nail down. There are clips recently of Walsh asking trans activists to define a woman biologically and they decry the truth as transphobic.
This isn't a discussion of hobbies or interests but one of biology.
OK, I agree on that. Sex is easy to define. And it's a basic fact that sex differences exist and are consistent across cultures and time. There is a significant denial of reality going on at that level.
I remember a conversation a while back on the subject where the other person tried to dismiss sex as "plumbing," and then pointed out some birth defects and abnormalities as proof that "plumbing" is meaningless. I couldn't continue. How can you converse with someone who acknowledges physical differences between the sexes but dismisses any talk of it as "plumbing"?
Or they bring up the extremely rare intersex conditions that exist as if the weird outliers contradict the idea of binary sexes.
there are some terrible books out there trying to confuse kids too. Check out this material.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Zw7nHffu0Edn2wT3hxmh6c3AnpbQtUEA
The document "Showcase of Natural Genders" actually tries to deny sexual dimorphism by using vague claptrap like “they have girl bodies that look like boy bodies” - There is no science to back this up or even explain what they mean. For example it appears that they are saying that male deer, because they lose antlers each year, spend time looking like females. This is absurd, and has nothing to do with gender. They even state that Male Red Kangaroos have pouches. This is absolutely false.
This is the terrible teaching that they are doing. They are not just preaching tolerance. They are LYING ABOUT BIOLOGY. They are doing the exact opposite of the purpose of school- like teaching Intelligent Design.
It’s about as legitimate as phrenology.
Sometimes people just euphemistically describe things like that, though. The terms they are using and the way they are talking about it are probably less important than they point they're trying to make.
The point that she was making is that anyone who talks about differences between the sexes should be mocked for being focused on "plumbing." It was an ad hominem meant to dismiss any argument from the side that's hung up on "plumbing" because focusing on that is just silly.
No it’s not. Boys are boys and girls are girls. Period. Case closed.
No, because we realize the Wild West approach is inappropriate for dealing with evil.
I disagree. Sort of. The issue is feasibility. Mess with somebody else's kids' junk? Get buried in the hills, no questions asked. Wanna teach preschoolers about other peoples' junk? Find someplace else and, even then, keep it rare, safe, and legal or don't be surprised when you find yourself surrounded by a posse, every marshal in the territory with orders to bring you before a hanging judge, or both.
Problem is, in the modern era, burying bodies in the hills always generates questions and there is no place to go off and do rare, safe, and legal things.
What's a troon? Is that short for poltroon?
A trans teen that has been prevented from going through puberty? Just heard it here, too. I think it works. Tween, Twink, Troon.
So you're fine with a parent beating or verbally abusing their kids to "teach them a lesson"? This is what you're advocating once you go from soft affirmation (as opposed to implantation) of this to full hormone therapy as early as possible.
would it be ok if the parent decided that the best medical treatment for their child would be to amputate all his/her limbs? some things should not be allowed because it's child abuse. performing mutilating surgeries and administering horribly damaging drugs/hormones is absolutely child abuse. instead of this child abuse how about you bring the child to a psychologist? when the child reaches the age of 18 and still wants to destroy his/her body then as an adult he/she has the right to do that.
instead of this child abuse how about you bring the child to a psychologist?
Because they're actually the ones who are responsible for this becoming an accepted cultural trend. Seriously--a bunch of left-wing activist psychologists and psychiatrists worked to normalize gender dysphoria as perfectly normal and healthy.
Sadly, true. Any psychologist who suggests any "treatment" other than preparation for "transitioning" is facing career-ending repercussions.
I think the decision to transition should be between a kid and their parents.
That's crazy. The state has a legitimate interest in stopping parents from harming their children. "Treatment" intended to lead to "transition" is objectively harmful.
I fully support LGBT. Liberty, Guns, Beer and Trump!
Ok groomer. Care to do a follow up on the life of Jazz now and what that childhood transition actually means? Care to explain why female inmates being raped and impregnated by fellow inmates is good? Care to explain why the entirety of society and biological science needs to be upended a d reorganized to soothe the feelings of a crazy 0.1% or less of the population? Care to explain what the sex offenders of the SF gay men's choir were saying when declaring they were coming for your children?
Perhaps if teachers and journalists were concerned with educating instead of indoctrinating everyone into their marxist gender theory cult you might get taken seriously, but that seems beyond you all.
Simple answer: a cohort of mental defects wants to redefine reality to establish a new normal, and a bunch of accommodating progressive-socialist operatives sees this as a mechanism to forward their own agenda.
What disturbs me is how giddy the adult supporters of this get when they talk about hormones and surgery. That isn't something to be happy about. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. And I really can't understand how anyone can say this is a decision that can be made by a child.
It is bizarre. Even if it's the best treatment for gender dysphoria (which I am not convinced of), transitioning will never really make someone the other sex. Pretending that that isn't a mental health issue is ridiculous. Redefining what "man" and "woman" mean won't change that.
The entire irony of the transgender movement is you can be any sex you want yet they heavily push gender stereotypes to transition kids. If you like long hair, scented candles, and dresses you are female. Even if you have a penis. If you like climbing, short hair, and monster trucks you are a boy. Even if you have tits.
That's an interesting point.
No trolling comment?
Unlike you I am able to respond to what people say without making a personal attack.
Unlike you I will recognize when someone makes a good point, even if I don't like them.
And unlike you I can separate what a person says from who the person is.
So... interesting point about shunning gender stereotypes while using them as justification for "gender reassignment." There's definitely some doublethink going on there.
Yet just above you made a personal attack from nothing you trolling shit.
Stop pretending you're innocent and good when everyone knows you fling shit.
That wasn't a personal attack. It was an astute observation.
Ow you’re trying to be sweet. You love Jesse. Like you wrote about in your Dream Journal.
Yeah, that's one of the bigger conflicts I think. The more "conventional" "I was born this way" view of transgender is really a modification of the idea of sexual essentialism. But it gets lumped in with teh weird gender-fluid-nonbinary-spectrum stuff which is pretty much entirely contrary to that.
"I was born this way" view of transgender is really a modification of the idea of sexual essentialism
And yet divorced from the reality of gendered bodies. Where do these essences come from, if there is no essential relationship between the body and gender identity? It requires you to simultaneously believe in gender essentialism and social constructivism.
On the most fundamental logical level, if gender is fluid, untethered from the body, and not limited to two, then there is no such thing as "trans." IOW, if there's no such thing as a "girl body," then there's no such thing as being a "boy in a girl body."
But this movement tends to not only be riddled with such obvious and unaddressed logical errors, but there's a strong tendency to act like the person pointing out these things is the one who just doesn't understand how obviously true all of this is.
It think this is a tactic and a bunch of confusion.
The confusion is that certain idiots really think that a boy acting effeminate actually should be labeled a girl. They are letting their own gender-role biases intersect with trans ideology and imposing this whole "Tomboys should really be boys because those are boy things". It's like the rich liberals who felt they were enlightened because they helped blacks with terribly racist things (like taking black children to be raised by good white parents).
The tactics are the actual trans warriors who merely see these people as useful idiots for their cause.
like taking black children to be raised by good white parents
But making sure to take them to African drum classes and buy them Tupac albums.
These developments increase my appreciation of the satire in the movie The Jerk. First The Jerk thinks himself black because of his tastes and alienation from white parents. Then he keeps seizing on superficia to "be somebody", from seeing his name in print to spending lavishly.
I got the alienation backward, but you know.
There is some confusion. Feminism and gay rights movements wanted to downplay cultural gender expectations, while some trans people are super into playing up gender stereotypes for their own edification.
I say just let people be cool and free and it won't affect you. Nobody's gonna cut your dick off without your permission. You're all worrying about literally nothing.
If your kind wasn't trying to convince kids going through puberty to cut their own dicks off, it wouldn't be an issue.
Bigoted, faux libertarian, obsolete, on-the-spectrum right-wing misfits are among my favorite culture war casualties.
Open wide, hicklib. You're about to get laws prohibiting troon mental illness shoved down your throat.
If you comply, we won't hang you from a willow tree with your own dress.
Vanquished clingers who spend their lives complying with the preferences of their betters, yet bluster about how they are going to turn the tide of the culture war any day now, are among my favorite irrelevant, obsolete, worthless, faux libertarian losers in modern America.
It’s almost over for you and your kind. Best you learn to obey, before your conservative betters put you up against a wall for treason.
Last-battle proglydytes who think that history has a side will be my favorite real-war casualties.
Come on, you can tell me. Which government-subsidized medical condition prevents you from even leaving your house, Mr. keyboard genocider?
Crawl back under your rock. It’s safer for your kind there.
I suspect I get outside a lot more than you do, Mr. Bug Chaser.
Complying with the preferences of my betters?
You mean when I leave my rural property where I reload and train to spend a day on the range with my ARs and family, thinking about looters getting Rittenhoused, Musk buying Twitter and the Left melting down in impotent anger, Federalism being strengthened in our highest courts, midterms dawning red, Oscars interest fading, shootings happening but nothing changing because the majority of informed Americans know that gun owners are not to blame for psychopaths, Netflix overhauling their policies to prevent woke infiltration, People getting important voting impulses at the gas station and looking at their grocery bill, my leftist friends getting a bit quiet lately and you and folks like Joe Friday or Tony raging and stomping like something bad was about to happen to you?
Yeah I kinda like the preferences of my betters. 😀
Of course. When crusading, consideration for self-inflicted casualties is just really inconvenient.
When are you transitioning?
So you are pro trans?
Disgusting!
I looked at this logically. Statistically, the life spans of gay/trans people is quite lower than non-whatevers. So I could not encourage my children or anyone else to pursue that lifestyle. It has always been a type of mental illness/difference to me and I also would not advocate for someone to get a mental illness. Typically worse results than non-mental people. So, no pride crap for me.
Statistically, the life spans of witches in Dark Ages Europe didn't look too attractive, either!
I mute SQRLSY, so I didn’t see how he responded. Was he inquiring about life expectancy for shit eaters?
Some folks are intelligent, well-informed, and benevolent enough to competently discus ethics, morality, and politics. Others? They literally know how to talk shit, and little if anything else!
Just a gray box to me too.
Whoa! Y'all must be some sort of geniuses, learning how to use that "mute" button! Would y'all be so kind ass to put together some kind of training course for the rest of us? Your mothers must be SOOO proud of y'all!!!
Much better that way. It feeds on attention, and shit.
'Contrary to their supporters' rhetoric, these laws aren't about preserving parents' right to shape their children's educations or protecting vulnerable young people from threats.' Baseless assertion, assumption based on mind-reading, or simply a lie, in any case, this statement is risible and cannot be supported.
'....These differences cannot be resolved by the government, and certainly not by schoolteachers...' Exactly. Which is why the common sense anti grooming law was passed. Groom your own kids, and leave mine alone.
^BINGO; The after side-effect of Commie-Education.
I suppose Reason supports the Freedom from Religion (mission, if not org, am I right)? Why can't we have a freedom from LGBQTBBQWTFGTFOH initiative as well?
One Word; Commie-Education...
Guess what, Scott. LGBT people are no longer "marginalized." They have all the same rights and recognition as heteros. They can legally marry, they can serve in the military openly, they can buy houses and adopt children. You're not marginalized anymore. LGBT is completely normalized in American society, so go get married, buy a house, mow your lawn, and pay your taxes like everyone else does and shut up about it.
That normalization does NOT include wildly inappropriate sexualization of very young children. Not being permitted to introduce sexual topics to kindergarteners is not the same as not being allowed to partake in full citizenship. If you want yo sexualize young children, go adopt your own (which you're legally able to do) and buy them all the happy happy gay books you want. Leave other people's kids alone.
This was perfectly stated. Couldn't agree more.
^^ this article is better.
Indeed. I mean, looking at it from another angle, it's not like they have hetero sex education being taught to 5-year olds in school and are preventing these "other preferences" from being taught as well.
Read the bill, Jackwagon. It prevents all sexual education in K-3 classrooms.
Sex ed has zero place in elementary school, beyond "don't let people touch your no-no places."
I view this as an example of why "pro-liberty" movements are doomed to fail. All you have to do is mention the word "liberty", and right away you're going to be besieged by maniacs, nut jobs, freak shows, parasites and perverts all looking to make a cause celebre of legitimizing their proclivities.
It's not hard to understand why authoritarianism is making a comeback. It certainly doesn't suffer in comparison with an ideology that requires cutting off your children's dicks.
But it's the authoritarians who want you to cut off your kids' dicks.
Yeah. In the name of liberty.
Those people tend to be actively hostile to the notion of liberty outside of some small, specific areas.
Yeah. In the name of liberty.
And the Nazis took charge of Germany chanting "work shall make you free."
That doesn't make liberty bad, and that doesn't make Nazis not liars.
C'mon, everyone knows that Freedom is Slavery and War is Peace.
You idiots do know there are trans men too, right?
Do you people wake up in the morning in a castration panic? Is literally everything in your political worldview about penises?
We're not the ones who think of dick every time they see a gun or a truck.
Some people here actually care about other people. It's possible to be concerned or upset about something even if it isn't a personal concern.
But that's partly a fair point. Too much focus on cutting off dicks. The explosion of girls identifying as trans and seeking therapies is similarly concerning. A lot of people seriously risking never being able to have full sexual and reproductive function as adults.
The explosion of girls identifying as trans and seeking therapies is similarly concerning.
And seems much more common.
My daughter is 14 and in high school, and in her crowd I know exactly one boy who has come out as non-binary because he likes to dye his hair and paint his nails (as you mention above - back in the '80s he simply would have been a Cure fan).
OTOH, I don't think I know a teenage girl who doesn't claim to be on the LGBTQ+ spectrum somewhere, and roughly half insist on being referred to as "them."
Nah, there's a reason the focus is nearly 100% on trans women. Homophobia and transphobia are all just misogyny repackaged. Men who simply can't handle the thought that people born with penises can be anything other than emotionless, gruff, dirty, and like sports.
It's just silly cultural small-mindedness. Just learn to appreciate that others make choices you may not like. Living in a free society means other people get to be what they want to be, same as you.
Most men don’t want to be the belle of the ball like you Tony.
LGBT is such a weird grouping at this point. It probably made sense decades ago when all of those groups were closeted or social outcasts. But now that is not the case at all. And the interests of each of the LGBT sub-groups are quite different and often at odds. The LGBs have pretty much everything they ever wanted in terms of social and legal acceptance. Ts, well, there's a lot to figure out there still. But it sure as hell is a whole other can of worms compared to a sexual orientation/preference.
The LGBs have pretty much everything they ever wanted in terms of social and legal acceptance. Ts, well, there's a lot to figure out there still.
That's why they must have the T. Democrats couldn't win elections without calling people x-ists and y-phobes. So no matter how fairly everyone is treated the extremists have to develop a new marketing plan to insist "nothing has changed".
Saying that all gays vote Democrat is like saying all blacks and Latinos support the left.
Believe it or not that's both prejudicial and false. And even if it were true, I highly doubt it's enough to decide an election.
Quibbling over 6-8%? 'Blacks, For the most part, have votes that are counted for (D)' then.
Saying that all gays vote Democrat
If you were half as smart as you think you are you'd realize this isn't anything close to what I stated. But since your only goal here is to start shit with people I guess you have to make something up.
Has done it multiple times in this thread. But he is the victim here.
"That's why they must have the T. Democrats couldn't win elections without calling people x-ists and y-phobes."
What else is that supposed to mean other than Democrats rely upon the votes of LGB people?
Rely on the votes doesn't mean every t is democrat dummy. Or every gat person as you stated. Straka started a gay walk away movement from the dems as an example.
Are you incapable of honest discourse?
Saying the majority of blacks vote D and the dems rely on that block isn't saying every black is a D.
It is like arguing with a simple child.
I wasn't talking to you.
I wasn't talking to you.
Another standard sarc applies to others but not himself, since I wasn't talking to him.
This is what I call left-wing privilege. They routinely engage in actions, such as "trolling", even as they dismissively refer to others for the same behavior. It's as if they believe their own actions don't reflect on themselves, which of course is true within their own controlled institutions. The in-group can do whatever they want to the out-group without judgement. Conversely the out-group must be 100% precise and solicitous of the in-group. The entire goal of marching through our institutions was to give the left the power to enforce this power discrepancy.
If you think I'm a left winger than you either don't read my comments, or you do and you're a retarded retard.
It's revealing you can't focus on the issue which is applying standards to others you cannot meet yourself. You obviously meet the definition so instead of addressing that you quibble about the label.
Deflect and dismiss, that's all you have. There's no substance to you at all.
You're calling me a left-winger when I've never supported the left. At all. That's not deflection, that's a fact. Right now you're acting like a child with his ears in his fingers shouting "You're a leftist! La la la! I can't hear you! You're a leftist!!"
Again, the issue is that you apply standards to devalue others' statements while you engage in the same behavior and claim you're above that.
Deflect, deflect.
I've never supported the left.
Of course you do. By lying about what the right believes, which you do on every thread you participate in, you support the left. Millions of left wingers are paid to do exactly what you do. If it doesn't support the left they're getting a shitty return on their money. But I think the better conclusion is that since they're willing to pay for it the process does work.
Of course you do. By lying about what the right believes, which you do on every thread you participate in, you support the left. Millions of left wingers are paid to do exactly what you do. If it doesn't support the left they're getting a shitty return on their money. But I think the better conclusion is that since they're willing to pay for it the process does work.
Anyone who disagrees with the right is a liar who is paid by the left. Got it.
Anyone who disagrees with the right is a liar who is paid by the left. Got it.
See what I mean? The issue isn't disagreement, it's mis-statements. But you pretend the issue is disagreement because focusing on whether you are correct or not proves the lie. You just can't help lying about the right.
Further I didn't say everyone gets paid. I said that the fact that so many are paid strongly suggests there is value to it. FYI, this is a fairly libertarian position. For someone so consistent in denigrating others you have a problem understanding basic concepts. Or maybe you do understand and you're just hoping others won't notice your comments aren't actually supported by facts. Good luck with that.
I really don't know what you're talking about.
I really don't know what you're talking about.
Your Evergreen Truth.
We do read your comments. That’s how we know.
It means most people, not just gays and minorities themselves, themselves think x-ists and y-phobes are bad people.
Look at sarc pretending it takes some sort of genius to figure this out. Our entire education system's top priority is teaching people to associate racism with their political enemies to churn out white progressives. Who finds this difficult to understand? It's literally the single most powerful driving force in American politics. It's discussed literally every single day.
But there was a chance to pretend someone else was stupid so sarc has to pretend that can't be the meaning.
So is he an idiot or an asshole? The answer is: no one cares.
Was that a reply to me? You made it third person. So I guess not. You must be replying to the trolls.
I'll leave you guys be then. Have fun!
You must be replying to the trolls.
An amusing comment from someone who bragged that he is here to troll. So in that sense yes.
So misunderstanding someone is trolling. Got it.
So misunderstanding someone is trolling.
No, you've explicitly stated your goal here is to start shit with other commenters and that your find it "fun". Further your entire comment history demonstrates that's what you do. Don't pretend it's based on this single comment. The pretense your entire history should be ignored is a form of left-wing privilege.
The fact that you call me a left-winger means you know nothing about my comment history, so you can't honestly say I'm troll.
That or you're even more stupid than JesseAz.
The fact that you call me a left-winger means you know nothing about my comment history, so you can't honestly say I'm troll.
It's very strange you pretend "trolling" is determined by your belief set rather than your behavior. But as we see you'll pretend anything that let's you maintain your sense of superiority. So go back to pretending only gays can oppose homophobia. You might be the smartest person to believe that.
No, I'm saying that if you're calling me a left-winger then you obviously don't read my comments, so you can't say I engage in trolling behavior by virtue of the fact that you don't read my comments.
It is so weird I you think this compelling when the facts already demonstrate otherwise. It's like claiming "if the moon is made of green cheese then I'm right about everything".
More like you saying "The fact that I don't read your comments is compelling evidence that you're a leftist and a troll."
More like you saying "The fact that I don't read your comments is compelling evidence that you're a leftist and a troll."
Except I've proven I do. You're a troll both because you admitted to being one, bragged about it really, and because your history of starting shit with other commenters proves you followed through. There's no question about this. It's 100% obvious from your comments on every thread.
Against this you pretend you can't be a troll because of your beliefs. Pretty stupid, maybe you should go back to pretending only gays can oppose homophobia. That made more sense.
I read your comments. You’re a troll. So stop with your bullshit.
It means that Democrats can't win elections without creating out groups they can vilify. That in this specific case its the LGBT community has nothing to do with the overall action.
A lo of LGB’s don’t want the T’s anywhere near them. I don’t blame them a bit for that.
well, considering the SSLGBTQ community generally refuses to even acknowledge the existence of its largest, most important constituent group...
All the Ts I've personally known have been excellent people. It's true that there are some insane Ts on Twitter, but they're hardly the only ones.
Uh huh. I’m sure you were a nasty bitch to trannies until the democrat hive mind commanded otherwise.
Not only that, but for a long time — maybe still — there was a lot of tension between the GLs and the Bs. The gays and lesbians wanted the bis to stay in the closet, because the existence of bisexuality was for some time thought to inhibit public sympathy for homosexuals. But now that homosexuals have gained such acceptance, bisexuals aren't such a threat to their image.
Saying that all gays vote Democrat is like saying all blacks and Latinos support the left.
That's not what he's saying.
In fact, I think a lot of why we're seeing such institutional momentum behind this 'movement' is the fact that the Democrats are losing gay votes, gay male votes especially.
The push to coalitionize the LGBTQ+ into a broad interest group is a push for (an imagined) solidarity to try to restore what used to be a reliable voting block that's currently fracturing.
Kicking the white supremacist hysteria into overdrive is a similar impulse in reaction to starting to lose non-white voters.
Gays didn't have an equal right to marry until seven years ago.
Undoubtedly, trans people will go through the same cultural gauntlet forced on them by cultural reactionaries that gays did, and undoubtedly society will end up accepting them as human beings too.
There's always going to be a slow half of the population. The key is to not let them have government power when they're having one of their fits.
Troons are human beings, just severely mentally ill ones.
Seems to me that the reason people are concerned about this is that these people are all human beings. Who are possibly being done a great disservice by having their neuroses and delusions reinforced by medical and social institutions. Often the best way to help a person is not to give them exactly what they ask for.
You mean you want government to send trans people and doctors to prison for making choices that make you uncomfortable.
You people need to be precise in your language. How statist you are matters on a libertarian website.
You mean you want government to send trans people and doctors to prison for making choices that make you uncomfortable.
No, just put them and you in an insane asylum.
Tony should be lobotomized. Not that anyone would know the difference.
I'm all for acceptance and tolerance of most things that don't cause harm to others. But do you really not see anything worthy of questioning or being worried about when such a large number of children and adolescents suddenly start to identify as trans? I think there is a valid discussion to be had on the subject, but claiming that it's all settled and well understood is definitely wrong.
I think the younger generations, unlike their parents and grandparents, are growing up in a world where women, racial minorities, and gays are considered social equals, and so are free to experiment and identify as they please.
It's called freedom. You people hate freedom so much you can barely get out of bed. What the fuck was this libertarian thing supposed to be about then?
You’re the poof that wants to make us all into state slaves. The fact is that if I were running everything you would have far more freedom than if you ran everything.
Or simply put. You’re evil, we’re good.
Trans people have every right thats afforded to anyone else. They have every right you and I do.
They dont have the right to have their mental delusions validated though. And they dont have the right to be free of criticism.
Imagine being so fucked up and fragile that you demand everyone loves, accepts, and celebrates you every day. Im a straight white guy and all I hear about every day is how I am literally the cause of all of societies problems. I got over it, so can they.
I think people should have a right to have their mental health problems validated. This country woefully underfunds public mental health measures.
Now if you'll kindly link me to where the DSM says being trans is considered delusional by the medical community.
"I think people should have a right to have their mental health problems validated. "
- sure, I will validate that they do in fact have a mental health problem. Just as you would if I put forth "Trump is the 2nd coming of Jesus, so I have to follow his orders". It would be fine for you to accept I had a mental health problem, but for you to buy in and say "ya, thats probably legit" would be frankly irresponsible.
"Now if you'll kindly link me to where the DSM says being trans is considered delusional by the medical community."
- Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.
...you know. Such as you have a set of balls and a cock, but are convinced you are actually a girl in a mans body.
Jesus tony you make this shit easy mang
If it's a mental disorder, it should say so in the DSM.
"Gender dysphoria: A concept designated in the DSM-5 as clinically significant distress or impairment related to a strong desire to be of another gender, which may include desire to change primary and/or secondary sex characteristics."
And guess how it gets fixed.
They also don’t have the right to be around children.
LGBT is such a weird grouping at this point.
Even back when it was just "gays and lesbians" actual gays and lesbians that I new would comment that gays and lesbians don't really have much in common, don't have a lot of common interests, and almost by definition don't have much to do with one another except for being discriminated against in similar ways.
The Ts are really just something else altogether, where same-sex attraction often has little-to-nothing to do with it, and the treatment of trans people historically hasn't really been related to homosexuality beyond what has long been regarded by progressive types as the mistaken inclusion of Ts with homosexuals.
The one that really makes no sense, however, is the "Asexuals." What in heaven's name does any of this have to do with them?
Where do the Qs fit in? How do they deserve their own letter? Is it just because so few things start with "q", they felt the letter deserved better?
IMHO the history of "Q" is not unlike the 'Black' and 'Indigenous" in BIPOC.
I always thought the point of the Q was to be a catch-all for all "non-straight" orientations, yet each orientation seems to need its own letter in addition to the Q, so what does the Q actually refer to, in the end?
The point of the comparison to BIPOC being that every effort to squeeze these groups together into a coalition seems to result in them all squeezing right back out the sides again due to how artificial the commonality is.
I keep reading that as "bipolars of color" or "bipolar people of color".
Or "bipolar coloreds".
Contrary to their supporters' rhetoric, these laws aren't about preserving parents' right to shape their children's educations or protecting vulnerable young people from threats. After all, if you think families should make decisions about children's education and care, that means accepting that families will make different decisions. Rules like these don't establish a neutral position.
There's a stunning lie. The rules establish that kids can't be taught these things in school because there's no way to teach only the families who choose that option. This says nothing about families ability to teach their own kids directly or in other venues which don't automatically include those who don't choose their options. Compare this to claiming anyone against teaching Christianity in schools is not a problem because some of the kids choose it. The obvious stupidity of this argument is mind-boggling.
Again we see Reasoners inability to think clearly when it comes to their pet projects.
yep, some of these laws don't even prevent grooming, or even require parental consent, they just require parents be notified of grooming
the "protecting vulnerable young people from threats" line is particularly galling, because proponents like Scott have also argued that we can't only groom some of the kids, because that would stigmatize the "vulnerable" LGBTQ kids as different -- no, every child must be groomed! for equity!
and yes, it is grooming, whatever cavils Scott attaches
Can we ever get back to where "children's grooming" meant haircuts, shoeshines, baths, etc.?
How about we just get rid of public education all together? It would save society a bundle to boot.
^THIS; Why in the world did anyone think it took the threat of Gov-Guns to educate children anyways....
Because contrary to accept misinformation; the only item that makes Government any different from any run-of the mill business/service is threats by legal Gov-Guns.
This stuff is just as bad in the private schools as it is public schools.
Just "getting rid of public education" doesn't actually solve the problem.
Just "getting rid of public education" doesn't actually solve the problem.
Not in the short run. But in the long run new schools will start to serve the population opposed to grooming in elementary schools. But that's why I don't oppose government rules pushing neutrality in the meantime.
it does because if there are no gov schools then you get to choose the school for your child. if you don't want the woke ideology then you choose a different school.
Let me repeat this for the slow ones:
"This stuff is just as bad in the private schools as it is public schools."
The ability to change the curriculum of a private school is far easier than a public school. And- by their nature- private schools are more transparent about what they are teaching the kids.
Why do you care what people teach in private schools? It's a private school. They can teach whatever they damn well please. If you want your own kids to learn Marxism or intersectional Critical Race Theory or whatever the fuck on your own dime then knock yourself out. It's your kids and your money.
If you're teaching marxism, it's not your money.
No, it literally is when it comes to private schools. You think you're being cute because the kids will be learning that it's not your money, but it is. Whether they learn something that is factually incorrect is unimportant, but what is important it's that it's none of your fucking business. It's their parents' business, and theirs alone. If you think the state has a vested interest in what children learn and your primary objection to whatever awful thing the state is trying to teach kids today is that it's teaching them the wrong thing... then you might have more in common with your local chapter of the Communist Party than you think. The primary thrust of libertarianism is that when people are free to make choices, even and especially bad ones, they make better ones on average than the ones the state will force them to make at gunpoint.
Nobody gives a shit about libertarianism.
Yall have failed spectacularly.
Face reality: you're seeing liberty crushed under the bootheel of totalitarian progressivism, to the point there will be less liberty than ever before in human history.
We need to wipe out Marxism.
I give a shit about libertarianism, as do many people here. You might even say it's why we come here. Why do you come here?
Liberty hasn't failed. It's not worse than "any point in human history" and it's not threatening to get anywhere close to that (Ashurbanipal, I'm looking at you). It doesn't fail as long as there are people fighting for it. I hope some day you'll realize that your current view of the role of the state puts you much closer to your purported enemies than it does us, and reconsider your position.
If you're teaching marxism, it's not your money.
Marx absolutely believed that money is a real thing that really belongs to people.
Your solution is to get rid of gay and trans people and probably a whole litany of other undesirables. We know.
You and your fellow travelers need to go. I give zero shits about gays and trannies one way or the other. As long as they’re not pushing Marxism.
YES. at this point we have more than enough evidence to know that gov schools are causing more damage than good. the one thing they're charged with doing, teach children, they are failing at.
It's true that universal education is expensive. What do you propose to do about masses of uneducated people?
Oh I get it. You want to sell them MyPillows.
What do you propose to do about masses of uneducated people?
You mean the 40-60% who enter college currently that have to take remedial classes, because they can't spell "cat" without being spotted the c and the t, and think 2+2 =jello?
"What do you propose to do about masses of uneducated people?"
Currently? I think we usually hand them a public school diploma and say "congratulations!"
Oh I get it. You want to sell them MyPillows.
That's... the most bizarre and nonsensical straw man argument I've ever seen. U.S. schools spend about $12k a year PER STUDENT on public schools. It's one of the highest rates in the world. Assume, if you will for a fleeting moment, that we simply erase the entire public education system and give parents a $12,000 tax credit per child (personally, I don't think this number is a good policy per se but I'm trying to change as few variables as possible here to keep it simple). You're telling me that the average parent can't figure out how to get Johnny to read and write on a twelve grand budget? What problem, exactly, do you find with this?
- That it's not enough money? Because it's an absolutely jaw dropping amount. It's easily enough to hire a private tutor for every 3-4 students, let alone something as economical as a school house. The free market has given us Walmart and Amazon and McDonalds. Surely, education can be made economical too.
- That parents are too stupid or negligent to educate their children without government decree? I'm sure more than a few parents like this exist, but they largely live in those failing inner city school districts that operate more like prisons attempting to store minors until they can be fully imprisoned. It's called a school-to-prison-pipeline for a reason, and privatizing the school half of it at least gives parents who want a way out a way out, rather than shackling them to the failures they have the misfortune of living close to.
- That the quality of education will be inferior? The quality of U.S. schools is already one of the worst in the developed world. How can this make it worse? Schools suffer from the class Friedman-esque problem of people spending other people's money on other people: When you spend your own money on yourself, you watch the cost carefully and make sure you get a good value (when you go out to eat, you pick a place you like that fits your budget). When you spend someone else's money on yourself, you get the best thing you can and don't worry about the cost (when the boss takes you out to lunch on the company's dime, you get a big juicy steak with all the trimmings). When you spend your own money on other people, you watch the cost like a hawk but you don't really care about the quality (that toaster you got your Aunt for Christmas might be a piece of Chinese crap but it was the cheapest one on Amazon). But when you spend other people's money on other people, boy watch out, because now you don't give a fuck about the quality OR the price. (Oh, it's just some rich dude's tax dollars. Who cares. Other people's kids. Whatever.)
The free market is the best way to allocate the money that society spends on education because it allows each person to decide for themselves how much education they want to buy, and more importantly, who they buy it from. It will involve consumers (the parents) directly in the choice of who they want educating their children and thus incentivize them to pick the best option available to them, and providers will compete for those dollars.
What do you propose to do about masses of uneducated people?
What are we doing about them now?
The endgame question is of course:
If a kid can go to school and learn about sexuality and gender identity at ages 5-9 (as the people against the FL bill want) and these same people also want to push so a kid can consent to altering their genitalia...
how is it not a very quick trip from "lets teach kids about sex/gender, and its their genitalia they can decide how they want to alter it" to "its their sexual identity, their genitalia they can do what they want with it (sex)". In a very grotesque way its almost more tame of an argument. When presented with "Johns parents decided they want to diddle his junk because thats what John wants" vs "Johns parents decided they wanted to allow him to cut his junk off and take castrating hormones because thats what John wants" the diddling honestly sounds like the less horrific option.
There is no endgame because it will never end. Once they get their way with this they'll move onto some new thing that hasn't even been thought of yet. Do you think this was on anyone's mind fifteen years ago when they were normalizing gay marriage? I don't think so. It's just what came next once they got their way.
It’s ultimately about normalizing pedophilia.
And to think that we used to get upset about parents grooming little girls for beauty pageants.
So did something happen with Sussman this week? Seems like there might be news about that sometime.
He was found not guilty on the grounds that his lies weren't really lies because the FBI knew he was lying.
T is anti-LGB.
chapelles car metaphor was perfect
Yes, it is. In the 1950s it was because gays and (to a lesser extent) lesbians were embarrassed by what they did, and hence could be blackmailed for it, causing them to become a security risk. Only a greater risk by degree than others who could be scandalized by adulterous affairs, but because of their preferences they could more easily be identified. At the same time and following that were fears that homosexuality was propagated by homosexuals who were afraid they'd run out of partners if they didn't recruit more to their preference, which some people believed to be possible with children.
Now the conflict is entirely different. It's now about promoting affirmative acceptance of not only homosexuality, but all sorts of crazy ideas about sex that aren't even internally consistent and hence can never be truly accepted, only falsely acknowledged. It's practically a caricature in which the false fears of generations ago have been made not only to come true, but inflated into ridiculous proportions and twisted around, like balloon animals.
That much is true, but you're blaming the wrong side.
Unfortunately some things have to be like that. Are there not objective truths, things that are not matters of opinion? Sometimes when it comes to family matters, there are minorities or even majorities who turn out to be just plain wrong. For a long time infant circumcision has been accepted by society as a religious practice, and it even spread to practice outside of that religion. However, when we found out about Africans who were practicing female circumcision (clitoridectomy), we were horrified, and did not want that classified with circumcision. But people are coming around to seeing male circumcision as bad also, just not as severely so as clitoridectomy; should it continue to be allowed as a parent's preference because of its long practice by a religion which has been accepted and influential?
Anyway, I think this whole gender reassignment or sex reassignment business is an objectively bad thing that should not be inflicted on children no matter who wants it.
I don't think parents should be allowed to have their babies' ears pierced either.
should it continue to be allowed as a parent's preference because of its long practice by a religion which has been accepted and influential?
This is not the difference even though people want to frame it as such to take advantage of the anti-religion movement. The difference between circumcision and the a clitoridectomy is that the former has no lasting impact and the latter has lifelong impact, often completely eliminating sexual satisfaction. It's completely disingenuous to pretend the difference is religion.
Ya was going to say while I get the point Roberta was getting at, the analogy is not really appropriate.
Male circumcision may not be necessary, but it certainly does no harm (in almost all cases). You essentially prevent balanitis from being possible (it aint pretty when it does happen) and also may reduce infection. Though there is data on both sides of this debate.
Female "circumcision" is absolutely abhorrent and mutilation. The male equivalent would be cutting off the head of the penis. Some women get off from both vaginal and clitoral stimulation, some only one or the other. You are removing an important part of their sex organ. It is super fucked up.
But can we agree that clitoridectomy should be illegal on babies regardless of the parents' wishes? And that if infliction of pain is not enough reason, circumcision could be banned if evidence of harm to health were greater than 0?
Infant circumcision is absolutely abhorrent and mutilation. The gender of the infant doesn't matter - cutting fully functional flesh from an infant's genitals, even if it's just a tiny bit of the foreskin or a tiny bit of the labia, is not okay, no matter what deity you pray to.
People who want to modify their bodies later, with informed consent, are free to do so, on their own dime.
"even if it's just a tiny bit of the foreskin or a tiny bit of the labia"
Herein lies the false premise. The foreskin is actually a "tiny bit of skin" which is almost inconsequential. The clitoris in no way shape or form is "a tiny bit of the labia" and I would advise you to do some reading on the topic.
If it was actually trimming the labia a bit that would technically be the analogous situation (truly the clitoral hood) but that isnt whats happening. The clitoris is embryologically and functionally analogous to the head of the penis. Your comparison is not even close.
No, circumcision has lifelong impact too. It's nothing like the degree of impact of clitoridectomy, but I think we can safely say knowing what we do now that it's somewhat bad for you. Plus, it hurts the baby like hell.
Most of those circumcising in the USA now don't do it for religious reasons, but because of long-out-of-date thinking that it was good for you. But if it becomes widely known as bad for you, then that will stigmatize any branch of Judaism that continues it.
It wont become widely known as bad because.... well - it just isnt bad.
plus... i'm having trouble seeing the relevance to the article.
An odd place to insert an anti circumcision crusade.
"Anti-LGBT Panics Are Bad for Everyone's Liberty"
Feature, not bug.
And not just feature, since constraining liberty is the fundamental goal for every ideological visionary. How can we achieve utopia unless everyone is properly conditioned?
We really, really need school choice. I would go so far as to say basically an eradication of public schools. Maybe the government can offer schools as a choice of one among many. So much of this derives from that, and the tension here is very real because it is the government itself that is the player in this. It's the government trying to push back against other government institutions.
As much as I think it's wrong, I actually can accept a parent sending their kids to a school where the gender ideology stuff is taught, as long as others have a choice to send them elsewhere.
I actually can accept a parent sending their kids to a school where the gender ideology stuff is taught, as long as others have a choice to send them elsewhere.
And as long as the parents know it's happening. You know the groomers know it's wrong by the fact they're hiding what they are doing. Same with CRT. I suspect most of the supportive parents don't even understand what is being taught. Instead they are pledging fealty to the Democratic Party.
As an alternative to true school choice, we should also start building up curriculum and start distributing this nationally and having schoolboards implement them. The parents have a lot of say there, and the teacher's actually have to stick pretty closely to stuff.
thats actually a pretty good idea!
set up a curriculum wiki and see what evolves
"Contrary to their supporters' rhetoric, these laws aren't about preserving parents' right to shape their children's educations or protecting vulnerable young people from threats. After all, if you think families should make decisions about children's education and care, that means accepting that families will make different decisions. Rules like these don't establish a neutral position. They let one group of Americans tell another group of Americans that they don't get a say in what their kids are taught or what treatments they can pursue."
total BS, these laws don't even demand neutrality, let alone force families into anything
those laws only prevent teachers from grooming impressionable kids as young as 6 into LGBTQ without parents' knowledge
if you want to groom your own 6-year-old into genital mutilation at home no one at school is stopping you
"None of that justifies political intervention,"
a teacher grooming kindergartners is "political intervention"
a child services official, referred by a teacher, demanding a parent "respect" a 6-year-old's gender dysphoria is "political intervention"
a principal affirming "drag queen story hour" with a mayor's blessing is political intervention
all of these things are already happening, these laws are just trying to rein those officials in, and only in red states
This is the entire point, right here.
The left has a political strategy. Namely, to call Republicans hateful bigots and peel off voting blocks as victims of that hate, and shame others from associating with such bigots.
They have a problem though. Real hateful bigots are in short supply on the right these days. Nobody hates black people (for very large values of nobody). Nobody hates women. Nobody hates Asians. Nobody even hates gay married people.
So they have to push to find push-back.
This has been the strategy for years. Do something radical, and then target the push back.
This was Charlottesville. Take down the monuments on the main avenue of town and call anyone opposed a racist.
This was Charlotte. Pass a law requiring all establishments to allow anyone who "identifies as" female to use the women's restroom. It was clearly designed to create a fake conflict. There was no rash of arrests of trans women living as women for using the women's room.
That was "refund the police". Anyone who wants police to be police is now a racist.
That was "bake a gay wedding cake". They went out to find someone to target, specifically so they could wreck someone in public. Anyone supporting the baker is a homophobe.
That is centered on this Trans nonsense now. If you don't support failed men's Olympic weightlifters competing as women, you are a bigot. If you don't support average division three men's basketball players dominating the WNBA, you are a bigot. They actually managed to cancel the great Martina Navratilova because she said trans women should not play on the women's pro tennis circuit. She is a hero of the LGBT community, and the first public hero of the trans community. Yet they came for her.
This is why they are pushing. And they have a well trained army of recent graduates. Anyone graduating college in the last 10-20 years, particularly in education or "studies" majors, has been indoctrinated in this world view. They are the ones who screamed at Milo for being a flamboyant right wing gay man. He endangered their safe space.
Now they are teaching 2nd grade. And the MoveOn team is telling them that it is important to teach their students about trans and gender fluid rights. So they are.
And when DeSantis says "no", idiots who write for Reason magazine call him a bigot.
The same idiots who said there was no problem with tearing down monuments. And no problem with forcing people to bake cakes. And no problem with forcing people to allow 50 year old men to use the women's bathroom at a youth center. And no problem with forcing people to accept men who "identify as" women to be allowed in women's competitive sports.
One begins to wonder when we start to realize that the "libertarian" label on the masthead isn't really the mission any more.
Oh, and thank you to Google spell check. Still loving the 30 seconds later contextual word swapping..
This conspiracy theory could be continuously applied to the chain of entire civil rights progress. Progress means things change. We haven't achieved equality for all vulnerable minority groups yet, so the work continues. As does the backlash. If you can't see Republican agency in their own actions, you're not paying attention.
Most Democrats would like nothing more than for trans activists to shut up and stop frightening the soccer moms. Alas, it is a free country where people are encouraged to agitate for their rights and social acceptance. This is not the first time ever that being a cantankerous old asshole is going to win the day over increasing equality and acceptance. Sorry.
This conspiracy theory could be continuously applied to the chain of entire civil rights progress. Progress means things change. We haven't achieved equality for all vulnerable minority groups yet, so the work continues. As does the backlash. If you can't see Republican agency in their own actions, you're not paying attention.
Ahh, the marxist pretense about "the work," which is nothing more than a dumb cover for the insane belief that "equity" will bring about the communist utopia.
Of course, the trick is that "the work" doesn't actually get to a point where it stops, because 1) marxism is a quasi-religion for the perpetually resentful who can't actually create anything of lasting civilizational value, and 2) the whole foundation of the quasi-religion is perpetual revolution.
Which is why marxism must be eradicated.
Nobody's talking about marxism but you. So eradicate yourself and we'll all be happy.
Eradicating you would serve a greater public utility.
This conspiracy theory could be continuously applied to the chain of entire civil rights progress.
Why yes, yes it could.
I happen to know a story about of a piece of legislation that was proposed by a Republican president, written by Republican Senators, universally supported by Republicans, and opposed only by Democrats.
When the leader of that Democratic opposition became President, that bill, whose intent was explicitly defending civil rights against the southern Jim Crow laws like the ones in his home state, had racial quotas and welfare programs added to it with the obvious intention of getting some Republicans to oppose it, which some did.
And now Republicans are known as the ones who resisted and opposed the Democrats' Civil Rights Act.
And now 90% of blacks vote for Democrats. Let's play my favorite game: explain that without being racist, if you can.
That's easy. Bribery works.
You're going to have to expand on that since there is no program to give money only to black people.
That is both false and irrelevant.
And now 90% of blacks vote for Democrats. Let's play my favorite game: explain that without being racist, if you can.
I did:
"And now Republicans are known as the ones who resisted and opposed the Democrats' Civil Rights Act."
"We haven't achieved equality for all vulnerable minority groups yet, so the work continues."
Now that is a lie and then some... Name ONE minority group who is specifically barred by law from something a majority group has Tony...
That's right; you can't.. You *pretend* and *imagine* such things exist for *****ENTITLEMENT****** over others and *****ENTITLEMENT***** to the things others have created by robbing them with a Gov-Gun!!!!!!
"Oh dear; those poor criminals out pointing guns and taking wallets... They are treated so unfairly.....", Tony paraphrased.
How many 'federal' agencies pass out tax dollars specifically to Women or Non-White??? Believe it or not; MANY... From alimony to Specifically Black Universities..... If anyone is mistreated by government right now it is the white-male...
...But this is where the Left vs Right mentality difference lies...
Generally; The Republican Right doesn't SWAK endlessly for their own **ENTITLEMENT** handed over by Gov-Guns.. They've accepted that EARNING must be involved and that STEALING is criminal. The left's foundation is exactly the opposite. They SWAK endlessly for more HANDOUTS, more GOV-GUNS, more, more, more UN-EARNED stuff... ( EARN is a curse word to a democrat -- but Gov-Gun Dictation/Theft/Enslavement is their living )...
Republicans = Gov-Guns is for Liberty and Justice.
Democrats = Gov-Guns are for [WE] mob POWER to commit criminals against those people (theft). Still the party of slavery.
Is there a libertarian solution? How about making parents liable for parenting? Perhaps we should encourage more lawsuits by 18 year-olds, and compensation for damages induced by shit-headed parents.
It sometimes happens. Macauley Culkin successfully sued his parents for screwing up his life.
Women are what Republicans and the Mises Caucus want men with guns to compel into the involuntary labor of reproduction (like it says in Dred). Non-ovulating former males are accomplices in genocidal mass-killings of helpless spermatozoa, and can therefore never be anatomically-correct Republican women like Phyllis Snapfly and Tokyo Pink.
Trans surgery on kids?
Male announcer: It's really the only sensible thing to do, if its done properly. Therapeutically there's no danger involved.
"Meanwhile, these bills and orders are written in ways that reject the medical science of gender dysphoria entirely"
lol the firmly-established "medical science of gender dysphoria" is that it's a mental disorder and should be treated as such, not encouraged with genital mutilation
"they are suggesting that gender dysphoria is something that adults are foisting upon impressionable children. It's the modern version of the paranoid old idea that the LGBT community grows by recruiting the young."
but a few grafs earlier...
"Above all, the increase in the number of younger people identifying as trans has led many adults to worry that children are recklessly altering their bodies based on passing fancies. "
oh, so maybe it's not paranoid to think sexually grooming impressionable six-year-olds might cause far higher rates of LGBTQ identification? like the 40% some pro-grooming teachers are reporting?
Personal anecdote... My daughter is on middle school. Pretty much every single one of her girlfriends has flirted with the gay or even trans label. I suspect one of the 6 or 8 that I know of in this category might actually turn out to be gay. But they are 11 and 12. Only a few of them are well into puberty even now. Half are still biologically children, so despite their familiarity with sexual terminology, they do not yet possess a sexual identity of any sort.
The schools all have LGBTQIA clubs to provide support. The schools all have several openly gay and lesbian teachers who adorn their classroom with LGBTQ paraphernalia.
I actually like all of those teachers that I have personally worked with. They seem to be passionate teachers who love their kids and who have their heart in the right place. I even see the value of having examples of successful LGBTQ people in their lives.
But even with all that... Putting your sexuality at the center of your work life by putting posters and flags everywhere and mentioning things about your partner every few days is too much. Nobody puts up posters and talks about their heterosexual sex life, be it promiscuous or mundanely monogamous or even celebate.
No, this did not arise out of thin air. And no, even if there are elements of overreacting akin to a moral panic, the reaction is not the story here.
The reaction is the only story. Gay and trans people have been around for a long time. The only reason you care right now is because Republicans have nothing else to run on in the midterms.
It'll be Mexicans or blacks or Chinese some other minority group the next election. If you haven't caught on to the pattern yet, you're not paying enough attention to have opinions.
Yeah, not a single word of truth in there.
It is such a transparent strategy.
You're complaining about gay people mentioning their partners as if straight people don't talk about theirs all the time.
I don't care if gay people make you uncomfortable. I'm very sorry that you have that problem. I just care about what you want to use government to do about your problem.
"You're complaining about gay people mentioning their partners as if straight people don't talk about theirs all the time."
To this day I dont remember one single teacher talking about their partners.
They did a bang up job on the math and science front though, thank god.
To this day I dont remember one single teacher talking about their partners.
The closest I can come up with is my 7th grade homeroom teacher, when we were just chatting to fill time before the day started. And it was about how she tried to watch the world series with her husband, but our team gave up a home run as soon as she walked into the room so she had to go to a different room.
That was a story about baseball and superstitions, and her husband barely a passing figure. And it's my one example from anything before high school. High school is a bit different because I was in clubs and stuff, and had teachers I spent a lot of time with outside the classrooms so they'd naturally be more chatty.
So if you don't think teachers are mentioning their partners, why do you support the government forcing them not to?
Oh I do think they are. I think the new crop of LGBTQ+ folks who graduated with their education and gender studies degrees cant help but mention their partners, lifestyles, what they did on the weekend with who, etc. Some teachers have come out and complained that they felt they couldn't do so anymore.
They really cant help it, as they are so tied up in this shit as their identity they cant separate from it. MY teachers were not mentally ill needy fuckers that needed validation from their classroom of children that their lifestyle (which they consider their whole identity) was OK. They focused on teaching us how to read, write, and do math well.
No coincidence that public schools are putting out kids with more dismal rates of appropriate reading and math skills every year. But damnit, they will nail the they/them pronouns every time!
So surely you have some evidence of this.
By evidence we mean actual evidence, not some propagandistic tiktok channel. I realize you people struggle with the difference. Maybe you should go back to school and you can find out the answers to your questions and maybe some you haven't even thought of.
So evidence of a teacher saying, on TikTok, that they are talking to their students about their sex lives or gender problems, isnt evidence of them doing so...
Like do you need it in an MP4? How should I upload it? You are really going to distill this down to a platform ad hominem? Thats literally all you got?
If a right winger goes on "TikTok!" and says "Im gonna bomb and abortion clinic!" do I get to come back with..."what, did you find that lame sauce on TikTok?!?! No one hates abortion clinics! That isnt happening!"
Im starting to think you leftists are either just extremely lazy due to the MSM doing the work of spreading your propaganda, or you never had the chops in the first place. Fuck, debating a child would be more rewarding at this point.
as if straight people don't talk about theirs all the time.
I have no idea whether any of my elementary school teachers were married or had children. They did not talk to us about their personal lives at all. That's how it should be. Teachers talking to their pupils about their private lives is unprofessional and should not be done, as it wasn't when I was a kid.
And maybe they still aren't. Do you spend a lot of time observing classrooms? Or are you just watching FOX News and believing every lie they shove in your ear holes?
The teachers are SAYING that they are sharing their private lives with their students, and that one of their problems with laws that restrict sex talk with little kids is that it would restrict them from doing so. Try to keep up. And, no, I do not have cable TV and don't watch TV network news at all.
So TikTok then.
this is your new thing? You upgraded in technology from accusing everyone of "Tucker CARLSON! FOX NEWS!!!" to "you got this from TikTok?!?!" In fairness, Jeffy had a week where he did "so you got this from DR JO RHOGAN?!?!"
Seriously man, everyone doesnt have with the ability to make a solid argument. Honestly, most of the country is that way, so you are in good company. But maybe best you go to the Wapo comments, you will find more similar intellects there.
Teacher saying that:
https://www.westernjournal.com/fl-teacher-new-dont-say-gay-law-means-cant-talk-sex-relationship-5-year-olds/
Gay and trans people have been around for a long time.
Gay people, yes. "Trans" is a brand new concept, so they have not been around for a long time, any more than there were Goths or Metalheads in ancient times.
Sure they have. What's new is medical technology.
Sexuality is a spectrum, and gender expression is 100% culturally arbitrary.
It's hard to know these things from within a particularly oppressive cultural milieu.
There is no such thing as "gender".
Actually, putting yourself (especially your "identity" and your personal publicity campaign) at the center of your life is essentially retarded.
It must be nice to be able to dismiss your opponents as suffering from a "panic" or a "phobia" instead of honestly dealing with what they are saying.
You have a recently developing situation where 20% of the young adult population is identifying as having a condition that potentially renders them reproductively dysfunctional but we cannot conclude something unusual and unhealthy is going on to suddenly cause that
The only question is what you want the government to do about people making these choices for themselves.
Is that the question?
So... Doing something about the people causing such an obvious shift from any scientifically supportable norm... That's off limits? The only choice is something that nobody has even contemplated?
Or are your talking points really so unbelievably stupid? I mean, one would think you would at least read them for relevance before parroting them.
I don't know why I should have to explain this to you, but this is supposed to be a free country. That means people get to do whatever the fuck they want to with their own bodies as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. The government has no opinion or role in the matter. That's how it's supposed to be, and libertarians were supposed to be the first in line to sign up for such a system.
So, just cut the bullshit and tell me what you want government to do to trans people.
sell us their kidneys!
""That means people get to do whatever the fuck they want to with their own bodies as long as it doesn't hurt anyone""
Don't we just assume guilt in the outcomes now? If you don't get the vaccine then you are guilty of spreading it.
I'd say the harm comes from spreading anti-vaccine propaganda. Hundreds of thousands are likely dead because of that stuff. Sleep well at night.
That was their choice.
Don't get me wrong. I agree with that statement. However, liberals do not. They are the new religious right that are demanding everyone live by their morals. For example, your statement which should apply to everyone within their own beliefs, was ridiculed by the left when it was used in a way they disagree.
We never called for the government to force anyone to take a vaccine.
Bullshit Bullshit.
Take the vaccine or lose your job. That's the way it was here in NYC.
As ordered by the Mayor.
Is that force? Do you think you have a right to a job?
Your obviously not a libertarian.
It wasn't a mandate from my job, it was a mandate handed down by a politician inserting themselves into things.
You brought up vaccination, which is in the context of something that's truly its own category of human events. We have to mass vaccinate during a deadly pandemic or millions die. It's just something we have to do.
That being said, nobody forced anyone to get a vaccine. You don't have a right to a job.
You don't have a right to a job.
Thus totalitarians reveal themselves. You don't have to do what government says, we'll just exclude you from the economy if you don't. You can take up subsistence farming.
Okay fine, welcome to socialism. Here's your pamphlet.
Let's turn to the section that says people are guaranteed a minimum standard of living regardless of their willingness to work and follow the rules of the workplace.
Let's turn to the section that says people are guaranteed a minimum standard of living regardless of their willingness to work and follow the rules of the workplace.
Again we see how the totalitarian mind works. There are only two choices:
(1) force employees to support the empowered political regime to qualify for employment, or
(2) a government controlled standard of living.
The idea of not requiring political loyalty in exchange for jobs is simply not an option. They can't even imagine the possibility.
Is that force?
Yes.
Do you think you have a right to a job?
Unrelated question.
You may not have a 'right' to food, but if I threaten to take your food away or prevent you from being able to ever get food if you don't do x, then yes that's force.
follow the rules of the workplace.
These weren't "rules of the workplace," they were rules imposed on the workplace.
"You may not have a 'right' to food, but if I threaten to take your food away or prevent you from being able to ever get food if you don't do x, then yes that's force."
I'm glad you've decided to open this can of words because you're uncomfortable around trans people. I guess it had to be something.
So is it force to deny someone necessary medical treatment if they can't afford to pay?
So, if your employer tells you, "have sex with me or you're fired", you're OK with that, since no one has a right to a job?
Jesus these guys had no problem decimating tony's shitty argument. Woof that was rough
So is it force to deny someone necessary medical treatment if they can't afford to pay?
No, but it would be if they wanted it, and could pay for it and you prevented them from getting it.
Are you starting to understand yet?
"So, if your employer tells you, "have sex with me or you're fired", you're OK with that, since no one has a right to a job?"
Are all of you new here? Taking a vacation from stormfront.com to see what libertarianism is all about?
I am a big-government liberal. I support all sorts of laws about what can and can't be done in workplaces. (I'm also a capitalist who supports some measure of discretion by employers.)
If you're a libertarian, you believe that employers have the maximum available right to hire and fire at will for any reason. All of a sudden it's y'all who are going around everywhere saying that government should force private workplaces to employ disease-ridden morons and force Twitter to platform vile, racist lies.
So between the all of us, I'm the most libertarian, and I think libertarianism is fucking dumb.
Answer the fucking question.
the funniest part was when we learned the vaccinations don't prevent you from spreading it
but we still have mandates because the government is a clown show
It is noting that this is unlikely to be a natural occurrence but rather a social contagion, and it might behoove society to limit the influence of the carriers of the contagion.
might behoove society to limit the influence of the carriers of the contagion
Make them wear correct-according-to-biological-sex masks, what are they gonna do? Claim it's a free country?
people making these choices for themselves.
No, the problem under discussion here is whether parents and school staff should make these choices for children.
yep
drop far enough below replacement and this problem solves itself in a couple generations
have to love the irony of desperately building a "sustainable" carbon-free world for the future on the back of pseudoscientific eco-superstitions while simultaneously ensuring you won't have any descendants around to enjoy it
this problem solves itself in a couple generations
Depends on what you mean by 'this problem', transgender idiocy? Sure. The agonizing death crawl away from liberty toward Marxism? 8-ball says, "Outlook not so good".
but "activists ARE pressuring kids into prematurely identifying as trans or nonbinary, rushing them headlong into irreversible medical treatments."
They fully confess that this is the goal.
Well well, a whole board of "libertarians" explaining all the various ways they want to government to slam its jackboot down on the throats of children, parents, and teachers who don't think and feel exactly in a Jesus-approved way.
I am going to cum at all the freedom. I am going to fucking cum because the freedom is exploding in my loins.
Who fed you that line? Did you improvise that one? Because it is really bad. Either find a new source or wait for instructions if that sprang from your noggin.
What is this, a heckle?
I am going to fucking cum because the freedom is exploding in my loins.
It's so cute when leftists pretend government forcing children and parents into things they don't want is "freedom". Bonus points for claiming ending this is slamming a government "jackboot" on people's throats.
It's long been the left's sophistry to pretend pushing someone in the path of a bus and pushing someone out of it's path are the same thing. But this is a new wrinkle, pushing someone into the path of a bus is no longer pushing them at all while pushing them out of the way remains an outrage.
This is what happens when leftists learn the buzzwords but don't understand the concepts.
It's only Republicans who are using government to force parents and children into things.
Really? I seem to recall protests about government subjecting schoolchildren to non-educational political material against the wishes of parents.
When your best response is to claim things there is widespread video of didn't actually happen I'm going to conclude you're nuts. This is what comes from leftists living in a fantasy world which refuses to admit facts contradicting their political narrative exist.
What happens when they're no longer in that world and reality contradicts them? Like here, they just look stupid. We used to teach children about The Emperor's New Clothes but Tony apparently missed the point of that story. This is why academia must be reformed.
The only people passing laws banning books and policing the speech of teachers are Republicans.
You are being told to trust Republican state legislators over parents and teachers. If you're a libertarian, you should instinctively be on the opposite side of that equation.
But you're not, you're a sad, stupid FOX News addict.
policing the speech of teachers are Republicans.
It's revealing Tony only cares about restrictions on the speech of government agents, and greatly amusing he thinks this concern is "libertarian".
The sycophants of power reveal themselves.
The only people passing laws banning books and policing the speech of teachers are Republicans.
If you ignore the hate speech laws being passed by Democrats, that is.
Ignore literally all the times Democrats pulled To Kill a Mockingbird and Huckleberry Finn out of the curriculum, and yes, it's definitely only Republicans.
Or when the UC categorized opposition to Affirmative Action programs as racist hate speech in violation of campus conduct codes.
Link me to evidence of one "hate speech law."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_by_country
"The United States does not have hate speech laws."
You asked for one hate speech law. I linked you to dozens. These laws are being stridently argued for by Democrat voters. They will happen here soon if not vigorously opposed.
Hey, the bitch consented. So what if she's only 12.
Or, maybe her parents consented for her. We can't interfere in their family decisions.
Yes, I want the government to act against people who intentionally harm children, including parents. If you have a problem with that, your a degenerate pervert.
>>>Using modern medicine to change our genders
nope. still a boy just no outie.
Reason Contributor, Brendan O'Neill interview about how the trans movement threatens women's rights.
""The year is 2022, and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is spearheading another moral panic.""
Is it? Why is it so necessary to teach 5, 6, 7, and 8 year old kids about gender identification?
Look how the left has misrepresented the law by calling it Don't say Gay. If you buy into the left's hyperbole, then it might be a moral panic. They misrepresent the law in order to create a moral panic.
Take the concerned parent with defensive knife wounds on his or her hands, blame them for fighting KULTUR WAR!"
Maybe it is necessary, maybe it isn't. You're supposed to be OK with parents and teachers and doctors and other private people making such decisions on their own without politicians inserting themselves into things.
I have a day job and I'm supposed to teach libertarianism to libertarians?
""You're supposed to be OK with parents and teachers and doctors and other private people making such decisions on their own without politicians inserting themselves into things.""
You seem perfectly fine with politicians inserting themselves into things when you like it.
Just not the private lives of children.
They do that all the time yet you do not complain.
How about you let me deal with my own political worldview and you work on at least being a better libertarian than me.
Because supresssing marxism is a positive good.
Probably ok with the privates of children though
don't say straight bill.
Why do we need a ban on something that adults and children can choose for themselves?
But remember, convincing a small child to pump themselves with puberty blockers and then shove them into life-altering surgeries because Munchausen-suffering mom wants to do a transgender blog about her child? Anyone who stands up and says, "I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this" is "in a panic".
And now, it's a roach motel. Once you transition, any transition away "is conversion therapy". Let's just ignore everything that got you to transition in the first place because we're all friends here.
Anything that goes in the direction of transgender is just the natural flow of people discovering who they are. Anything that moves away from transgender is evil, evil EVIL right-wing conversion therapy!
Nobody is trying to force kids to become gay or trans. Stop consuming trash right-wing propaganda, please.
"Force"? No. Encourage? Yes.
Not that either.
You are uninformed.
A public school teacher, qua public school teacher, is not a private person, but an agent of the state. Get rid of the state involvement and the more doctrinaire libertarians on here will agree.
I should refresh more often.
You're supposed to be OK with parents and teachers and doctors and other private people
The teachers at the mandatory government schools are not 'private people' who stand in clear contrast with government agents, since they are, quite literally, government agents.
I so enjoy watching libertarians come up with all sorts of excuses for why they think the government ought to interfere in the jobs and private lives of individuals. It's practically all you do nowadays.
Public schools ARE government.
Government is telling government how government is supposed to do the job government needs government to do.
No private sector jobs were involved whatsoever.
Truthfully, two dudes putting their dicks in each others shit filled buttholes is pretty gross. No matter how you try to spin it.
Let's see how many woke companies will change their logos . . . where it's bad for business:
https://notthebee.com/article/lets-check-to-see-if-any-woke-companies-have-changed-their-logos-to-rainbows-in-the-middle-east
All I know is that they better put that native chick back on the butter and ther better be boobs!
Then Ronald Reagan, who had recently finished serving as California governor, came out against it,
Then he underfunded the response to the AIDS epidemic, and appointed a Lysenkoist bureaucrat from the CDC to head up the effort, resulting in the COVID pandemic 40 years later.
That Reagan sounds like the greatest democrat ever!
dude. Philadelphia, Mississippi.
You idiots literally look at the first person you see on TV and blame him for the pandemic. You're like monkeys except worse because you presumably read books in your youth.
WHOOOOOOSH
Don't forget to vote Democrat! Sure, you'll be so poor you can no longer even pay attention, Science will be something only your great grandfather remembers. But men can get pregnant and no more mean tweets!
You'll still have science, but it will be determined by poll numbers.
the science of polling will also be determined by polling
Shackford: stop repeating the lie that transgender issues have anything to do with lesbian or gay issues. Really, this b.s. has to stop. The "LGBTQ+" letter salad is an invention of neo-Marxists.
Oh, and as a gay man, I have zero problem with the state of Florida prohibiting the teaching of any kind of sex-related topics in elementary school.
"The year is 2022, and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is spearheading another moral panic. This one focuses on fears that activists are pressuring kids into prematurely identifying as trans or nonbinary, rushing them headlong into irreversible medical treatments."
Let's lecture kindergartners about sexuality. Let's teach little boys that they are actually girls, and the girls that they are boys.
Nah, let's postpone such concepts for a few years until they are appropriate: THIS IS A MORAL PANIC!
Yes, it is. You're panicking over something that politicians and propagandists have told you to panic over, and instead of accepting the fact that you're neither an expert in early childhood education nor an expert in LGBT issues nor an expert in sexual or mental health, you're panicking and telling everyone what to do anyway.
Wrong, Tony.
I am an expert in all those things. I have three kids and five grandkids. Gender bending sexuality discussions have no place with kindergartners, nor with third graders. Sexual discussions of any kind have no place with kids that young.
Why do you want to talk to five year old children about sex at all? Is the motive to groom them for deviant explorations when they are nine, or maybe six?
I'm not going to accuse Reason of being left or transcommunist like all the theofascists on this site do, but as an off-the-spectrum libertarian I no longer care what happens to the alphabet sex cult. They squandered all my sympathy when they turned around immediately and started demanding a ton of stupid laws right after we got rid of the stupid (now I honestly do wonder?) laws against them. Idgaf what happens to them now. Cops, SWAT stormtroopers, sharknados, no skin off my back, screw em all to hell.
There is a part of me who feels the same way.....
What laws?
Pro Alphabet People laws are even worse for liberty…
"Anti-LGBT Panics Are Bad for Everyone's Liberty, But Pro-LGBT Panics Still Okay"
remember, this whole pedo grooming scheme is being sold as "protecting the vulnerable LGBT children" who might otherwise not embrace their queerness
then of course the groomers immediately discover LGBTQ are suddenly 10x more prevalent in their classrooms than in the adult population [shocked face]
and of course Scott doesn't even try to excuse the inclusion of (for instance) Genderqueer in elementary school libraries, with its graphic depictions of sexual acts so licentious the contents of the books were banned from school board meetings when parents brought them to the meetings to complain
because even for Scott, deliberately exposing little kids to porn is indefensible grooming
I have noted that NASCAR is celebrating Pride Month, I would therefore suggest that the battle is lost to force gay people back in the closet.
The battle has shifted to genocide through "transitioning".
"The state is an expression of political will, not ethical medicine. The attorney general of Texas has no idea what treatments are best for kids who believe they may be transgender, but he has the power to investigate and jail parents for making decisions the government deems to be "abusive.""
This is a little different in that what DeSantis was targeting is the fact that teachers in GOV run schools have been counseling students on this WITHOUT the parent's knowledge or consent. If the gov run schools are to be some kind of access to this kind of counseling then they have to get the parent's permission first.....that is what the FL law is really all about.....the ensure parental involvement.
Teachers teach children about all sorts of things without explicit parental consent. Otherwise we wouldn't need teachers. Parents don't own their children.
No. They teach children SOME sorts of things that have been approved to be part of the curriculum. The decision about what should and should not be part of the curriculum in public schools is rightly a matter for public debate. Under no circumstances should young pupils be taught ANYTHING secretly from the parents.
I don't know about you, but my parents checked out somewhere around algebra.
We don't need a "parental rights above all" movement. That leads to masses of kids not being vaccinated for diseases thought largely eradicated. If you bring back smallpox and polio, I'm gonna be really angry at you.
Are you drunk?
I hope he is. There shouldnt be a brain chemistry that can do this shit while unaltered.
"my parents checked out somewhere around algebra."
It shows.
Maybe there's something in the water. Maybe society has been dominated by Abrahamic cultural assumptions that y'all have mistaken for "natural," and so now that we're well past the feminist revolution and have also had a gay revolution to challenge those assumptions and make people more free to live how they want to live, we're seeing more openness about transness. Maybe it's Maybelline.
Plenty of cultures have had all sorts of different ideas about gender. Your cultural assumptions are provincial and oppressive. I assume you enjoy your own freedom. The only hurdle is to allow others to enjoy theirs too.
Like sane people everywhere, most of us are opposed to unrestricted freedom for children. All cultures everywhere recognize the need for parents to make choices for their children until they are mature enough to run their own lives.
Yes, I get that you want other people's children raised according to your provincial and oppressive cultural assumptions. To that I say fuck off and leave people alone.
To that I say, fuck off you deranged pervert, and no, we are not going to leave people alone who are harming their children. No functioning society does that.
No, you want the state to harm parents and children because perfectly happy parents and children are doing things that make you feel uncomfortable.
I don't care if harming their children makes them happy.
Dude, climate change is real. The problems that you have with other people's choices are just not my problems. Whine about how other people conduct their private lives if you must, but the only way you're going to change it is by vast government force.
So, libertarian, explain what you want government to do to trans people.
what you want government to do to trans people.
Nothing.
Well, evolution is kind of an iffy job with the genital mutilation stuff, so there's hope.
Little jenny down the road says, when asked, that she is totally fine with her daddy diddling her, and also dad says she likes it.
Who are we busyboddied nosy statist to interfere in their perfectly happy family?
Get fucked, groomer
Nobody can get irreversible treatments before age 18.
You are worrying about things that aren't real because some fat drunk on Youtube told you to worry about them.
The problem is not that you're right-wing, the problem is that you are stupid and gullible.
Nobody can get irreversible treatments before age 18.
False.
Yeah, I really dont know how confused one has to be to come up with a statement like that.
What about "trans" kids rapping girls in the bathrooms of Virginia's schools and then being covered up!
"What about "trans" kids rapping girls "
Dirk Bogarte in his autobiography tells of his going to the movie The Mummy as a boy and being picked up by a medical student who takes him back to his apartment where he's wrapped in bandages head to toe and sexually abused.
Glasgow also offered Bogarde his first sexual experience with an older man - the dressed in beige Mr. Dodd, who he met whilst skipping classes at the Paramount Picture Palace - “the meeting place of all the Evil in Glasgow”.
Mr. Dodd seduced the young schoolboy with an ice lolly and a hand on the knee, during a performance of Boris Karloff’s The Mummy. Though Bogarde had seen the film 3 times before, he was keen to replicate Karloff’s performance, and so willingly returned to Mr Dodd’s apartment, where he was tightly trussed-up in bandages, all except his pubescent genitals, which thrust through the swaddling rags “as pink and vulnerable as a sugar mouse.” Mr. Dodd flipped Bogarde onto a bed, and tossed him off. Bogarde felt something terrible was going to happen, and offered up 3 or 4 “Hail Mary’s” in the hope of being rescued. Of course, he knew God’s help wouldn’t arrive, as he knew what would happen as Mr Dodd fiddled about.
LGBT > drag queens in kindergarten > pedophilia.
Grooming in the UK is by muslims. Grooming in the U.S. is by perverts. How many Rotherhams, Rochdales, Huddersfields, and Manchesters do you want in the U.S., Scott, and why?
None. Because Rotherham was probably the least celebrated participant at the Battle of Trafalgar. He was not well regarded in the service, being once described by his admiral at Trafalgar, Cuthbert Collingwood, as "a man of no talent as a sea officer" and "a stupid man". Rotheram gained a reputation as a difficult officer to serve with, and he rapidly alienated his fellow officers and the sailors who served under him. Ultimately this character trait resulted in his removal from service and overlooking for promotion in 1808 after being court martialled for inappropriate behaviour towards junior officers.
It's like you've been kicked in the head so repeatedly that your skull is just a mushy sack enclosing the bruised and severely damaged pulp of what used to be a brain.
Every comment shows just how much damage there is.
"Every comment shows just how much damage there is."
It sounds like a lot of damage! Keep reading every comment though. It could get worse.
If guys had chose instead to center their point on it being tyranous to force someone to adhear to subjectivist sht, they wouldn't look like even worse tyranical subjectivist turd humpers.
If there is a complete rollback on LGBT rights, so be it.
"If there is a complete rollback...."
Sounds interesting. Mind if I watch?
"an utterly harmless story about a pair of male penguins who raise a chick."
Unfortunately with hummingbirds, the males contribute nothing to raising a chick, and don't even bother to visit the nest. Recently I watched a female caring for a couple of eggs in her nest in the garden. She'd visit the nest every ten minutes or so. But the visits stopped, probably because the mother was killed by a cat or another hummingbird. One of the peanut-sized eggs had already hatched though, and the chick was dead after a couple of days. A sad experience.
The LGBT++ are still mentally ill. Ranging from mild neurosis to extreme disassociation with reality and even self harm. They need our understanding and help. Instead they get pushed into victimhood for a certain party's partisan gain. Young people are made to think they are the opposite sex by greedy doctors and clinics. Please look at the reality people.
As a culture, we accept that decisions about these surgeries are properly made by the teens, consenting parents, and medical professionals. You may think these are reckless decisions that the teens may someday regret, and probably some of them do. Some of them might go wrong, might not be as beautiful or as affirming as the teens hoped. But that isn't our decision to make, and embracing liberty means accepting that people will make decisions that we might not choose for ourselves. (And if the doctor commits actual malpractice, there are civil courts to resolve that.)
That doesn't change when the surgeries involve teen genitals rather than teen noses.
Notice how no one is going around trying to convince teenagers to cut off their noses.
This article is extremely dishonest argumentation from Shackford. If reason wants to remain reasonable, it would be in their interest to show activists like Shackford the door.
And if the doctor commits actual malpractice...
All medical "transitioning" is malpractice.
Only when it's done by a vet.
Dress-up like a mutant alien trans-lesbian bi-sexual if you want...Just stop trying to ram your lifestyle down my throat.
I'm generally pretty tolerant (and even supportive) of people who want to lead benignly eccentric lifestyles; however, I am so friggin' tired of hearing about the LGBT freak show that I'm tempted to join the anti-lgbt crowd. Just to get the freak show to shut the #@!! up.