Delta-8 Cannabis Compound Is Legal, Says Federal Appeals Court
Plus: Libertarian Party changes abortion and bigotry planks, the FDA's weird rejection of fluvoxamine for treating COVID-19, and more...

The 2018 farm bill effectively legalized products containing cannabis compound delta-8 THC, according to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit. The court's ruling helps bring some clarity to what has been a murky zone for a few years, as more companies have begun marketing and selling joints and vape products containing the hemp-derived compound.
"Following the passage of the 2018 farm bill, delta-8 THC and some other minor cannabinoids entered a sort of legal gray area," notes Marijuana Moment's Ben Adlin. "Many businesses in the hemp industry insisted the products were legal, but officials in many jurisdictions disagreed."
The 2018 farm bill legalized hemp and its derivatives so long as they contained no more than 0.3 percent delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).
Delta-9 THC—often referred to simply as THC—is the main psychoactive substance in cannabis and is unambiguously banned under federal and many state laws. But things are more unclear when it comes to delta-8 THC, a delta-9 THC isomer that is only found in trace amounts in cannabis plants.
"Products containing delta-8-THC became widely available in most of the USA following the 2018 Farm Bill and by late 2020 were core products of hemp processing companies, especially where delta-9-THC use remained illegal or required medical authorization," note researchers in a paper published earlier this year in the Journal of Cannabis Research. "Delta-8-THC may provide much of the experiential benefits of delta-9-THC with lesser adverse effects," they point out.
While the 9th Circuit's ruling may seem unambiguously good, Dale Gieringer, California director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML), told the San Francisco Chronicle that he was troubled by it.
"The court is federally legalizing a psychoactive cannabinoid about which relatively little is known, while keeping the amply studied Delta-9 illegal," said Gieringer. "It makes more sense to legalize Delta-9, which has been studied exhaustively in thousands of subjects and research protocols over the decades."
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Fuck Joe Biden
Fuck Gavin Newsom. Fuck Ron DeSantis. Fuck Donald Trump. Fuck all the politicians.
Fuck your wonderful Joe Biden.
Please go, Brandon.
Nobody buys your neutrality by adding newsome into that dumbass.
Just because you're a hyper-partisan who will defend literally anything your party does doesn't mean other people share your mental handicap.
Citation of me defending everything they do?
Because you are lying. I call put the gop more than you call put Biden lol.
I've never seen it.
Yes you have. Youre just a chronic liar.
I've called out their spending in congress multiple times. I've called out McConnell, Cheney, Kizinger, Amash, your feckless cunt in Maine and others often. I've called MTG a distraction. I said trump was wrong on gun ban and spending/stimulus.
I've called the gop out for more often than you do the democrats. Ever since you turned into kizinger lite. You sound like WaPos Rubin incessantly lol.
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"I said trump was wrong...."
You've never said he was wrong on a god damn thing. And you call me a liar? Wow dude. You're pathological.
Yes, I have. Multiple times.
You're a chronic liar, you have a need to lie. You do it in the very same thread just a few posts apart.
You are lying here. I've even linked you the very times I have done so previously.
Probably because you're an idiot.
Whats funny is I have no problem recriticizing those ive already criticized.
Yet if you call out jeff, shrike, sarc not criticizing Biden they get defensive and refuse to say where they disagree with him, they just promise they did sometime in the past. It is a weird behavior.
And tell sarc tomorrow you’ve criticized republicans and he’ll say he’s never seen it again.
Well that's because he is a chronic liar. He will lie in the very same thread and the claim what he said a few posts earlier is not what he said. It is amazing to watch.
Yep. That's why I don't vote. I used to be able to bring myself to vote against what I perceived to be the lesser of two evils, but now it's so hard to tell I just don't bother.
I usually go for the Libertarian for once a decade I find a Republican who passes muster. But sometimes I just don't vote because none of the above are acceptable. A few elections back every libertarian in my district was a nutter conspiracist. So I actually wrote in NOTA.
That's what I used to do. But now that I stopped voting, elections aren't stressful anymore. It's such a relief. Voting is like playing the lottery. You get all excited with a small investment in something you are guaranteed to lose. What's the point?
It is more because your intellectually lazy and didn't want to have to think on anything deeper than both sides bad.
Sorry, I didn't mean lazy. I meant deficient.
When it's a choice between Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich then yeah both sides are bad. It takes some mental gymnastics I'm not willing to engage in to make a decision as to which one of them is better. Or less bad. Or whatever. I don't care. They both stink.
You'd rather be under the boot of an authoritarian in 5 years than one in 50 years. Which means you dont value freedom at all. Youre just a lazy piece of shit who won't fight for his beliefs to keep freedom.
To be fair, at least the Giant Douche is lemony fresh.
"Fuck Gavin Newsom. Fuck Ron DeSantis. Fuck Donald Trump. Fuck all the politicians."
TDS-addled asshole brandyshit is STILL trying to justify his ignorance.
…. fluvoxamine has proved as capable as other approved treatments at stopping hospitalizations and deaths.
Horse paste!
Ivermectin bad phizermectin good
For shareholders. Thus these policies are libertarian, right?
You can always tell the effective Covid treatments by whether or not they're off-patent.
Why is an EUA necessary for already approved drugs? Off-label prescriptions are generally allowed, no?
Scientists don't know what effect mild but repeated COVID-19 infections will have.
Rough guesses point towards the same effect of having many colds and flu in your lifetime.
In other words, 100% death at some point.
If you're lucky enough to live that long.
I eat when I'm hungry, I drink when I'm dry, and if the covid don't kill me I'll live till I die.
Nor do they know the effects of repeated doses of mRNA vaccines/therapeutics are. It sure isn't stopping repeated mild infections, though (or serious infections is older people).
The 2018 farm bill effectively legalized products containing cannabis compound delta-8 THC...
Prohibition's not here, man.
This means that the party is officially neutral on the legality of abortion.
Nooooooooooooooo!
It is a major sign that the Mises Caucus is not as libertarian as it may claim.
I believe Mises Caucus can be treated will a topical cream.
That only masks the symptoms. Eventually you will need surgery before the tumor metastasizes.
Ahh yes. Brandy supports the infantile and feckless L party that would advocate for drugs and tut tut at anti authoritarian actions but never actually do anything.
Thanks for finally being honest about your contempt for libertarians and your love for authoritarian Republicans.
I have always had contempt foe thr lazy and intellectually deficient fake Ls that sit back as their rights are removed. Telling at clouds isn't a productive action.
The L party had become the trendy fake intellectual social club that didn't actually care about rights but merely wanted to have cocktails and talk about how terrible other people were.
They are basically The Atlantic but for libertarians. Fake pseudo intellectualism devoid of thought or action.
And I see you keep talking about me with lies lol. Most biden cultists project like you are doing now. How's your biden love holding up buddy?
Isn't it time for you to engage in your retard logic?
Tell me something I support because I didn't sufficiently condemn it.
Or something I condemn because I didn't sufficiently praise it.
C'mon Tony. I mean JesseAz. What's the difference? Two sides of the same retarded partisan coin.
It isnt that you don't condemn it hard enough you lazy retard. It is that you attack those who do condemn it while ignoring the people who support authoritarian acts. Such as you did with masks.
What the fuck don't you get? You claimed to be anti mask policy but you solely attacked those who were actually anti mask. That is your problem retard. You became leftist because you only had the left leaning people here who didn't see your hypocrisy. So you became them and attacked the others. Even if it meant attacking those whose views you claimed to agree with.
No dude. Unlike you I don't take politics personally. You do. You get shrill and fling poo like a monkey. Why? Because you are a monkey. You're a partisan attack monkey. That's all you are. You've never had a meaningful conversation on this board. Ever. All you do is attack and fling poo. You're a disgrace. If you disappeared the only people who would miss you would be your fellow girls who also throw poo like monkeys. That's it. No one else would notice.
You claimed to be anti mask policy but you solely attacked those who were actually anti mask.
That's the thing. I didn't attack people. I was attempting to clarify the nonsense that people were being told about masks. Most of that nonsense was believed by those on the right.
But I wasn't attacking people. That's what you do.
“Unlike you I don't take politics personally.”
Nobody here cries more than you.
I have linked your threads multiple times of you attacking those against mask policies Sarc. Again, this is you lying constantly. Do you need the links again?
And you take everything personally. I also have those posts saved as well. LOL. You threatened to beat me up once, you've asked Nardz to die but then nobody would be able to find him until he smells, etc.
Wow. You project a lot here.
I take nothing you say personally. I love pointing out your hypocrisy. It is hilarious to me.
I have always had contempt foe thr lazy and intellectually deficient fake Ls
Real libertarians like Donald Trump, on the other hand...
Real libertarians realize Trump had more libertarian leanings than the previous 4 presidents and so can acknowledge that.
Democrats pretending to be libertarian can't give Trump credit at all.
I like how you jumped straight to trying or attempting fights after routine 3 days Milwaukee beast bender by the way.
Cry more.
Who is crying? I've never had to live in a car because I was a lazy piece of shit. My life is good.
Bark bark bark! goes Jesse the junkyard attack dog.
He initiated it Jeff, lol. But he is on your team so you don't mind his trolling. It supports your trolling after all.
Jesse, you are the biggest troll here at Reason.
On Friday, I initiated a discussion on libertarian ideas for stopping or preventing mass shootings. It was a constructive discussion, I thought. Lots of people had lots of good ideas and there was only a minimal amount of trolling or insults.
Do you want to know a big reason why it was such a productive discussion? Because YOU WEREN'T THERE to fuck it up.
This is what happens whenever you enter almost any discussion here. You attack and attack and attack, you never admit you were wrong about anything, you never apologize, you never back down, you are completely and 100% in attack mode. And most of the time your attacks aren't even about the topic at hand, they are personal.
You make this place worse, Jesse. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. If I were you, I would take a break from Reason for the month of June, spend the time you would normally spend here doing almost anything else, and then see how your attitude changes.
Do you want to know a big reason why it was such a productive discussion? Because YOU WEREN'T THERE to fuck it up.
Yep.
I've seen him in exactly zero productive conversations on this board.
You make this place worse, Jesse. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Do you think someone who goes around calling an anonymous person on the internet a child molester over politics has any shame? He's even more disgustingly shameless than the politicians he worships.
Jeff, you mike and Sarc are by far the biggest trolls. You're just mad I point out your hypocritical comments for everyone to see. Full stop.
Trolling is defending CRT in thread after thread denying it is being taught in any manner despite given dozens of primary sources.
Trolling is claiming 2+2=5 for a summer.
Trolling is claiming non violent offenders of J6 deserve 4 years on plea deals.
Trolling is denying the damage from the BLM riots.
Trolling is discussing bears in trunks.
That is what you 3 do constantly.
Do you think someone who goes around calling an anonymous person on the internet a child molester over politics has any shame?
Please defend shrike sarc. Someone we all know posted those links. You defend him because he is on your team. LOL.
And by the way Jeff, I see you skipped right over the part where sarc initiated it and so I just pointed out his idiocy in kind. Weird how you glossed over that.
Then you jumped in with your own troll as well before I responded to you.
You two initiate more crap here and fling more crap than anyone else.
For once Jesse I would like to see you engage in even the tiniest bit of self-reflection about your behavior here. Do you think that every word you write here is beyond reproach? Do you think your actions here speak well upon the character that you wish to present to the world about who you are? Are you proud of everything you write here? Or do you think, that maybe Jesse, you sometimes go overboard with the trolling and personal attacks?
Collectivist Jeffy wants someone else to engage in self reflection.
Can’t make this shit up.
Here sarc conflates libertarians and the Libertarian Party. On purpose. So he can troll.
Squirm and seethe, Brandy.
Eet's NOT a tumuh!
Kindergarten Cop? Wow, that is really insensitive.
"Girls have penises and boys have vaginas" - Kindergarten Cop 2022
I think they edit that out now. Kids aren’t biologists.
Not really.
Neutrality on abortion is the libertarian position. Pro choice is not.
What does that actually mean = neutrality on abortion
I read the Mises group plank; ain't nothing there about abortion, per se. A series of aspirational statements. Nothing actionable.
It means that a national libertarian party platform should not take a stance on whether abortion should be legal or not.
Under the US Constitution, abortion is a state matter, and that's probably also a reasonable libertarian position.
Good.
"Japan has approved abortion-inducing pills—but only if a patient has their partner's consent."
It's literally the Handmaid's Tale, those fucking evangelica... oh wait.
Well, they are a bunch of white, er, yellow supremacists.
People who drank a moderate amount of coffee every day ... were about 30% less likely to die from any cause during a seven-year period compared with non-coffee drinkers
Emphasis added. Obviously moderate coffee drinking should be mandated for elementary students.
How does coffee prevent auto accidents?
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but not being sleepy while driving has a direct and easily traceable effect on how likely someone is to get in a car accident.
Elementary school students don’t drive.
Sounds like you had a lot less fun in elementary school than I did.
They did in Chicago. Granted we had 16 year old 7th grades
Well, with the teachers unions further entrenched, there are now 16 year old 4th graders in Chicago.
I'm going to guess, that's because having moderate amounts of coffee, means you are more awake and aware during times when you are driving or doing other dangerous activities. Not for any health benefit reasons.
And I'm going to guess that coffee has little to no direct causation. Much more likely that drinking coffee simply correlates with other behaviors that might actually reduce fatalities.
Everyone knows that gangbangers don't drink coffee. It gives them the jitters.
Additionally, a non-trivial group of people who drink no coffee at all have medical reasons for doing so. If your heart is so bad that you avoid all caffeine whatsoever, then you are more likely to have a heart attack.
Where epidemiology is concerned, reverse causality is a big problem.
It was in my family
Does this include people drinking milk identifying as coffee? The L in LGBT.
It's not enough to be lactose intolerant, you must be actively anti-lactose
Fucking vegans.
If you don't recognize that the bottle of MD20/20 under my desk identifies as coffee you're transphobic and probably racist.
Best sarc impression yet lol.
Sarc doesn’t have a desk at his job.
Touche.
Removing the abortion plank makes perfect sense. From a libertarian point of view, the legality of abortion is determined by when we develop human rights, reasonable people agree that 8 months and two weeks after conception we have human rights, but there is no consensus on when those develop. More importantly, as a party based on principles not opinions, there is not a libertarian principle on when we develop human rights.
Having a libertarian plank on abortion is like having a plank on who should be on the ten dollar bill. It is unnecessarily divisive, and not actually based on libertarian principles.
That's a stupid analogy, we all know rothbard should be on the 10 spot
What? Never! Locke obviously.
He's on the 20
And keeping with the civil war theme Frédéric Douglas is on the 5
Spooner or go home.
But why have fiat currency at all?
You could have a 10 spot and not make it fiat. Have it backed in gold or silver.
I think libertarians will eventually need to come to a conclusion on this. And that will mean coming to some compromise position- if only because it is going to be a hot button topic in the near future. You cannot turn away from this issue.
Unlike vague terms like "bigotry" that refer mainly to thought or speech policing, the question of Abortion is a legitimate question of government. At what point is there a person who deserves protection from the government?
I think the appropriate platform would be something like, "Libertarians understand that the key question during pregnancy is 'when is there a human being who has rights that need to be protected.' We understand that good people can disagree on how this question will be answered, therefore:
* We believe the best place to legislate these questions is at the local, not federal level.
* We are deeply skeptical of the government's ability to humanely and morally perform any activity, and therefore urge our members to err against empowering the State with intrusive methods of enforcement and punishment of any such legislation."
I like it.
^
That would be a perfectly acceptable libertarian plank.
We all deserve protection from the government.
That's what the Bill of Rights is for -- to protect us from the government.
Of course we do, but there is a balance of what a government ought to be allowed to do to protect us. Assuming strict gun control could save protect kids from whackos with guns, should the government be allowed to institute a massive gun confiscation program?
At the end of the day, a locality may ban abortions at the hands of libertarians, but those same libertarians ought not institute (say) travel bans on mothers, or mass surveillance to enforce that restriction.
While I might dislike abortion in the first trimester, as a libertarian, I don't feel the appropriate response is to use the government to go through everyones' mail to find abortifactants.
Nice try.... Not libertarian.
As he said... The entire issue of abortion pivots on when a new life has human rights.
I have never heard a persuasive argument that could be even remotely argued as definitive. So you cannot have a "libertarian" position, particularly not a "local law" version. That might be a pragmatic workaround.... But pragmatic work around are notoriously unlibertarian. We are doctrinaire.
I am not sure of where I plant my flag. I have some very strongly influential experiences... Having lost a fully developed child to a placental abruption just 2 weeks before the calculated full term date as well as 5 additional very early term miscarriages. My "lived experience" says that 5 weeks and 8.5 months are not the same thing.
But scientifically? The only rational cutoff I see is conception and maybe implantation..... Or the old school version, birth. But I don't think anyone agrees with those terms except for the extreme pro-life activists.
And I also don't think anyone agrees with the far left Democrat position of allowing unborn babies to be killed mere hours before delivery.
But since there are no objective answers to this, there really is no way to resolve a libertarian position that pits the rights of two individuals against each other.
So no plank is the right plank
"reasonable people agree that 8 months and two weeks after conception we have human rights, "
Totally a subjective time period !
Hard to see why it would be considered as reasonable which it comes to principles.
These human rights are also called INDIVIDUAL rights and NATURALLY BORN rights - both of which imply birth or labor to have taken place.
So...let me get this right...you add "Born" to the term "Natural Rights" and suddenly find that it requires birth to enjoy Natural Rights?
Talk about begging the question. smh.
The magical power of the Birth Canal Fairy.
Blessed be its name.
You may have natural rights before you’re born, just like you do if you are a citizen and resident of Kraplakistan, but that doesn’t mean it’s the job of the US government to protect you. The Constitution is pretty clear: it protects people born or naturalized in the US.
The Constitution grants powers to the Federal Government as to what it can or cannot do. Nothing in the Constitution says anything about the Federal Government's "job" being to protect "people born or naturalized in the US".
I must have missed all those people who got off scot free by pointing out that their murder victim was an alien.
It's right there in the preamble: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Here, "we the people" is citizens of the United States of America. You become a citizen by birth or naturalization.
My point is that while it's perfectly reasonable for US states to protect the life of a fetus, there is no constitutional obligation to do so. Furthermore, this is a state matter, not a federal matter.
So, abortion up to the moment of birth then?
I guess it's ok if the baby - excuse me - *clump of cells* is halfway out too?
Given that it is arbitrary I'm going to go with 18 years post birth as the moment you stop being just a clump of cells.
Morally, maybe. But as far as the government is concerned, you're a person as soon as you start paying taxes.
Sooooooo...... Nearly half of folks are not persons?
Having a libertarian plank on abortion is like having a plank on who should be on the ten dollar bill. It is unnecessarily divisive, and not actually based on libertarian principles.
I would even go further. The libertarian plank requires individual agency and personal responsibility in it's positions. Abortion as political or national policy places that above the precepts of the other positions. If there's a super-secret right to abort a human life, then of course there's a secret right to abort affirmative consent after the fact, abort hosting speech after providing affirmative consent, abort saving children from a shooter after taking an oath to serve and protect... there are pragmatic reasons to be made for allowing some abortion, but those are pragmatic reasons, not libertarian reasons.
The problem is that the Libertarian Party is a political party, and abortion- whether we like it or not- is a political issue and the purpose of platforms is to discuss how the Party believes its elected members ought to perform their political duties.
You cannot remain silent on this, or someone will put words in the party's mouth. If it is merely to say "The Libertarian Party intends to not legislate at all on this" then they should do that.
It's super hard to figure this shit out, but that's the job of the leaders of the party- to figure out the consensus position.
A 10-day course of fluvoxamine costs about $5...
Uh-oh.
Way too cheap to possibly be effective.
Ivermectin was off-patent and only pennies, so it's a slight improvement over that. Still no comparison to the jab, the most profitable pharmaceutical product in human history.
Can't Merck just change the name to coofoxamine and charge $84/pill for it?
.. If you take Paxlovid, you might get symptoms again..
So if it’s not 100% effective, (masks, anyone?), it’s worthless.
Right, sarc?
My elephant repellent is 100% effective.
Under certain conditions.
60 percent of the time it works 100 percent of the time.
It also smells like Bigfoot's dick. Sometimes life requires complements.
The anti-tiger talisman you convinced me to buy has been 100% effective.
Another study links coffee consumption with lower risk of death.
Yeah, death of the person trying to talk to me before I've had my cup. AM I RIGHT, PEOPLE?
Completely true.
Scientists don't know what effect mild but repeated COVID-19 infections will have.
They said, visibly erect and salivating at the money to be made.
Japan has approved abortion-inducing pills—but only if a patient has their partner's consent.
Fathers with rights in addition to responsibilities? What gives?
Evidently democracy is two adults and one fetus voting on who is inconvenient.
Overt wins the internetz today.
More proof Mormons don’t have a sense of humor.
Chuck wins stupid today.
You win it everyday when you pray to your disproven pervert god and put on your magic underwear.
I told you before, it's not magic. Mine doesn't smell because I change it, at least daily.
Interesting that you confess that your pants-shitting is not just metaphorical. You and SQRTSLY should hang out.
The garments are symbolic. However your church’s scriptures were written by a proven fraud and the Book of Abraham is a PROVEN hoax!
However you and all the other perverts won’t discuss religion.
“I don’t see why that matters?”
You just force your beliefs on others and use them to justify your hate and bigotry.
Your church and it’s members are despicable.
Interesting that you confess that your pants-shitting is not just metaphorical. You and SQRTSLY should hang out.
No thanks.
Well, strictly speaking...
"The first—which has garnered greater attention—removes language saying "we condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant." In its place, the plank will state: "We uphold and defend the rights of every person, regardless of their race, ethnicity, or any other aspect of their identity."
Good. The point of the Libertarian party is to advance Libertarian ideals. So long as you are not interfering with the rights of others, the Libertarian party should have nothing to say about the fevered thoughts in your mind.
Reason is upset that libritarian are taking over the libritarian party.
And ones who want to fight instead of just complain.
But I thought we are all anti-racists now? Jo?
"Two changes in the L.P. platform are raising eyebrows. The first—which has garnered greater attention—removes language saying "we condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant." "
Absurd !
Libertarian ideology does not pass judgment as to what discriminations are proper or not !!
On the other hand, it does claim that people own / control their own bodies
Neutrality on abortion is by far the greater mistake !
A political party isn’t just about ideology.
It can, and arguably should, be more choosy about who can be a member and who can be a candidate. It is perfectly reasonable to say, “We don’t want any bigots among our ranks.” That is not the same thing as saying, “We believe the government should make bigotry illegal and monitor everyone’s thoughts.”
Caw caw!
The libertarian case for thoughtcrime.
"It can, and arguably should, be more choosy about who can be a member and who can be a candidate."
That is the job of its electorate. They can pick and choose. They don't need to express this in a platform.
I really can’t tell if they’re being disingenuous or really are so stupid they don’t realize that a party’s plank is what they want to do if they gain power?
See below: Mike has so internalized the Left's Social Signalling, that if you aren't posting #Anti-Racist and putting pride flags on your profile pictures and gender pronouns on your profile, you are obviously the wrong type of person.
Birds and insects have flower colors. The right has flags. The left has their own tags of acceptability. If the libertarian party is going to advance past a curiosity, it needs to define its own tags. Like "Don't Tread on Me".
This is actually quite telling of folks like Mike. I think the usual lefties (like him) that are getting their knickers in a twist about this change recognize in their heart of hearts that this platform statement was nothing more than emoting and social signalling.
And Mike recognizes this because he immediately went to claiming this was about the people who are allowed on Team Orange. If you aren't the type of person who is willing to tag your self with #Anti-Bigots, you must obviously be a bigot. Thus in Mike's mind, an unwillingness to tag yourself as #Anti-bigot means you are the wrong sort of person to be on the Team.
As usual, the fallout on this says far more about the critics and their terrible world view than it does about the new leadership.
"Why should a woman need her partner’s approval? It’s her body.”
Better ixnay that "become one flesh" thing in the vows.
And child support
Plastic recycling does not work and will never work...
Sweet. An upcoming surge in the war on plastic.
Plastic people, you're such a drag!
its odd that a "scientist" is saying this when we are already recycling plastic. Experts once again proving they are not and clearly just political
Upcoming surge in the war on everything that makes life suck slightly less.
It works great. We put used plastic on ships. Ship it somewhere in Asia and pay them to "recycle" it. They throw it in the ocean. We get to feel great about ourselves.
In the wake of mass shootings in Buffalo, New York, and Uvalde, Texas, proposals to raise the legal age for buying guns to 21 are gaining ground.
Yeah, make them new adults criminals.
And voting, and entering into contracts, and deciding to have gender reassignment surgery or medication. Hey. If you're irresponsible, you're irresponsible.
That's different, because, STFU bigot!!! - Reason Editors
Adulthood should be tied to the age when you can decide for yourself if you want to surgically remove your penis.
There is a pretty good argument that if one cannot buy a gun until 21, one should not be allowed to join the military until 21.
No shit?
Tie it to the voting age. Let democrats get 12 year old gun owners.
Rights should be tied to voting age. When you can vote you are a legal adult who is allowed all the rights there in.
I've always thought rights should be tied to full legal liability. If you can be directly sued, or charged criminally as an adult, you should also have all of the rights of a legal adult.
In addition, delegates at this past weekend's L.P. convention voted to remove the current abortion plank—which says "government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration"—from the party's platform. This means that the party is officially neutral on the legality of abortion.
That isn't neutral. It favors the mother over the child. It is a stance. There is no balancing of rights.
Did they keep weed, asssex, and Mexicans? Were those never really part of the official platform?
"This means that the party is officially neutral on the legality of abortion.
... But removing the L.P.'s long-standing pro-choice plank at a time when abortion access is under its gravest threat in the party's lifetime is disappointing, to say the least."
I guess ENB is no longer a (L)libertarian.
If she is not, good for her. The Libertarian Party is a dysfunctional mess, and has been for a long time.
Shorter mike: "it isnt the dnc which is better"
This weekend's kvetching from Mike was instructive. He was a contrarian liberal in silicon valley, so he decided that made him a libertarian. But he got frustrated people wouldn't do things his way, and work on the things he felt were a priority, and so he decided that was evidence that they are a "dysfunctional mess". And he then went to a bunch of people and said "Let's do this without the LP by setting up our own non profits and charities and the like." But he could never get any traction.
So while Mike thinks he was describing how bad libertarians are, he is really just demonstrating how bad a thought leader he is. The libertarians have elected many people to office. And people around the world setup libertarian focused charities and other programs all the time. He couldn't. That's his fault, and no one else's.
Which is why the MC was created.
Glad you agree Dee.
I would only remind people that the authority of the Libertarian Party to define what is libertarian is questionable to say the least.
Their views should not be a reason in and of itself to not call oneself libertarian
Thus the (L) smart guy.
Relying on Democrats to define what is democratic would be insane.
Never was.
I searched on Sunday night and NPR had 140 stories about or that mentioned Uvalde in 5 days. Another search discovered a total of 13 stories about or that mentioned Waukesha, half of which were just updates.
Don't anyone ever tell me that Proggies don't have an agenda and that the murder of children doesn't get them rock hard. Fewer people died in Waukesha only because the people involved and the police reacted immediately. Given an hour, that piece of shit would have killed hundreds.
Zero mentions on NPR of the 18 month old killed in a drive by in Pittsburg, or the 9 year old killed in a drive by in Philadelphia this past weekend.
In April, someone opened up on a party at an AirBnB that was attended by a lot of minors and a 14 year old was killed. NPR headline is about AirBnB taking legal action against the person who booked the property:
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/17/1093237706/pittsburgh-shooting-2-dead
They don't actually care about dead kids.
Some dead kids are more equal than others.
Some dead kids are more useful than others.
Winner
These people only care about "black lives" when a cop or some hee-haw peckerwood does the killing. Past that, it's not important to them beyond some vague hand-waving about "systemic racism."
In a similar manner, they only care about people who are shot when it's done with an AR-15. Never mind that school shootings have actually been going on for decades (Columbine just kicked off the mass murder craze), or that more people are killed in an average month in Chicago than all school shootings in a year, even in these times. Coverage of the STEM school shooting in Colorado, for instance, got real terse and antiseptic when it came out that the shooters 1) used handguns, and 2) were a couple of radical left drug addicts, one of whom was a tranny to boot. Coverage of the King Soopers shooter in Boulder got memory-holed entirely when the press found out it was actually a Syrian Arab who did it.
They use the statistics when black people kill black people, but only in the proper context. They will jump right up to tell you that guns are the number one killer of young black men, but forget that the people wielding those guns are almost exclusively young black men.
After Parkland, David Hogg was actually using the stats to pad his numbers on school shootings, but presenting them as if there were multiple Parklands a year, rather than gang and drug related murders taking place at schools.
His latest is that he's out on Twitter taking about "our kids." Leftists are sick fucks who will dance in the blood of children as long as it suits their narrative.
Look at this assertion and the chemjeff-like sophistry from one of the local Boulder County shitlibs:
Zornio: Stop stigmatizing mental health by blaming it for mass shootings
For millions of non-violent Americans with mental illness, being linked to extreme violence is harmful, even deadly.
This is the state that upper-middle class shitlibbery has settled in to--don't call clearly deranged behavior for what it is, because it might make someone else feel bad. In reality, no person who isn't a sociopath, hyper-alienated and atomized, or cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs is going to think about shooting a bunch of small children, and until that type of mental derangement DOES start being stigmatized as bad, so that it can be CORRECTED, then we might actually see fewer mass shooting incidents amongst the non-Chicago population. Of course, this midwit bitch blames it on the availability of guns, because the hyper-neurotic society she's helped bring in to being can't possibly be at fault here.
A desperate 18 year-old's suicide made world-wide headlines last week. That is the problem. Even if they never say his name, the media have ceaselessly talked about what he did. It is reinforcing the behavior.
Now compare what he did with what Rittenhouse was doing when he was attacked and you can see just how mentally deranged the left has become. They actively discourage serving the community and encourage destroying it. They actively discourage self-defense and encourage murder for infamy.
"Furthermore, those who do perpetrate violence with these conditions tend to show repeated patterns over time, or comorbidities, offering warning signs."
Yeah, that's been pointed out repeatedly. Almost every time, the shooter has shown some kind of warning signs, up to and including having been violent before. Wasn't there a picture of the Uvalde shooter holding a bag of dead cats?
Nobody's talking about little BrayleighAnn with "social anxiety." We're talking about people with some pretty hardcore mental health problems that can't be solved with a handful of pills and some art therapy.
A video just came out of the shooter driving around with bags filled with dead cats. Kid had issues way before he shot someone.
AR-15s are RARELY used in gun crimes, but taking ARs is the gateway to taking everything else.
Too bad neither shot up a Mormon church.
And... you are muted. Scream in to the void. I don't worry about violence from angry incels. We can protect ourselves.
Go search car and driver for "red suv" you'll get a ton of stories
> The first—which has garnered greater attention—removes language saying "we condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant."
I am of mixed opinion. The benefit of this statement is that it affirms the bigotry of racism. Too much of the Left's reframing of racism into a power and outcome disparity has removed all sense of the bigotry. But that's what racism is, racially based bigotry.
The downside is the dog whistle this sends to the racists that inhabit the dark corners of the party. (You know they are there). Why not keep the statement while adding the rights declaration along with it?
The abortion plank is just as problematic. Abortion has always been contentious in the party, but washing ones hands of the plank is not the solution. Best to do what was already in the platform: acknowledge the contentious nature but assert the common point of agreement that there be no government funding for abortion.
On the other hand, candidates from parties both large and small routine wipe their asses with party platforms. Platforms are not contracts entered into by the candidates. They are not morals clauses. Republicans certainly don't honor theirs, and neither do libertarians. They serve as a broad statement of principles not a guideline to what the candidates believe. Nor is it any sort of legal document.
The Mises Caucus is a purist faction, so I wonder if they think the platform has any weight behind it. Would they try to use it to block candidate endorsements. A bit of legalism they can thump.
Good point.
Basing your plank on lies by lefties means you’ve already lost.
“The downside is the dog whistle this sends to the racists that inhabit the dark corners of the party. (You know they are there).”
Considering you think everyone who’s not for open borders is a racist, I don’t really care about your concerns for racists.
The downside is the dog whistle this sends"
Here the phrase "dog whistle" is doing all the work, allowing Brandybuck to describe somebody as secretly advocating a position at odds with what they actually proposed. Basically allowing him to lie about their position. The definition of a bad faith argument.
"the racists that inhabit the dark corners of the party. (You know they are there)."
Really? Who?
Who are these Libertarian Party racists you're alluding to? You must have at least one example to back up your insinuation.
Didn't brandy admit to moving to an all white neighborhood but wishes more ethnic people would move bear by so he could get ethnic food? I mean if that isn't racist pandering I don't know what is. White people only accept for you ethnic cooks, brandy is good with that.
Typical of leftists. They only want ethnic people nearby so they can be the help.
Nearby, but certainly not next door.
Because the statement is performative.
We've been called racists every day for 20 years straight - it doesn't scare us anymore. We no longer feel the need to quake and bow and stammer out a 'wwwwe, we aren't racists, we hate racists' everytime.
Now we just roll our eyes and ignore the poo flingers.
I know, right? The two statements are not mutually exclusive. Say bigotry is repellent while also defending the right of every person to be who they are. Which by the way includes the rights of racists to be racists.
Especially the racism of low expectations prevalent with leftist types.
Should we also say that Communism is bad? How about kicking dogs?
Should Libertarians take a stand on kicking dogs?
How about Deep Dish versus Pan Pizza?
Why doesn't the LP have a stand on raping puppies? Are they ignoring the issue? Not explicitly condemning puppy rape is essentially an endorsement.
Just so long as you don't go full Walter Block and celebrate the right of racists to be racists. I think drugs should be legal, but I'm not celebrating the junkie.
So should the Libertarian Party keep a statement to the effect of "We recognize that alcoholism and drug addiction are scourges on society that should be erased from daily life. And the people who use addiction to profit off of poor consumers are also terrible people who have no place in society! Also drugs should be legal."
Or should the LP just stay in its lane?
“X is repellant” has no place in a libertarian party platform.
Why not?
Why this desire to remain morally neutral especially when it comes to ideas like bigotry?
I find this trend towards extreme moral relativism to be rather fascinating, actually.
I don’t like fat people.
Saying that something is a private matter isn't the same as saying that it is "relative". To the contrary, a functioning libertarian society has powerful private institutions (churches, etc.) that impose strong, absolute moral views and punish people who don't conform to those views.
It is you who is in favor of state-imposed moral relativism.
"The downside is the dog whistle this sends to the racists that inhabit the dark corners of the party. "
Out of curiosity, do you not see that these performative social signals are in and of themselves a dog whistle- that you are concerned more with the thoughts of people than protecting liberty? I mean, that is what was so annoying about Bill Weld. He was more interested in telling people to bake the damn cake because "bigotry is bad" than actually protecting basic freedoms of association.
I don't like bigots, but I also don't like a Libertarian Party that feels they only need to stand up for the liberties of the right people. That sounds to me like Team Red or Team Blue.
"The downside is the dog whistle this sends to the racists that inhabit the dark corners of the party. (You know they are there). Why not keep the statement while adding the rights declaration along with it?"
Because this falls into the trap, as many often do, of taking the left at their premise instead of dismissing the premise outright.
Making the declarative statement is kissing the ring of the "antiracists" (read: racists) on the left and giving in to their premise that not only is racism and bigotry literally everywhere, but its an existential problem that must be addressed by everyone all the time.
Instead of course the exact opposite is true. Racism is the lowest it has ever been in this country, with the massive progress we have had. In fact we have made so much progress you literally cant turn on the TV/streaming service without being beaten over the head with diversity/equity woke pandering. You would think the country is 90% black, based on the Target commercials. At minimum every family portrayed is multiracial and politically correct.
The progress is of course why they have to make everything about race all the time, and pretend its the early 1900's. They have to make everyone FEEL like its the worst thing in the world, because they dont have the real world evidence to back it up.
The LP essentially doing the "colorblind society" equivalent of a policy is the correct stance; both here and overall. We absolutely have to move past this obsession of race and the "anti-racist" method is doing nothing but actually (purposefully) causing racial tension. As it is designed to do.
If you’re hearing a dog whistle, you’re the bitch.
Biden and Blackface T are in competition to overreact the most to Uvalde. Biden wants to ban lung blowing 9 mm. Blackface T wants to ban all new gun transfers.
Both advocate for arming the Ukrainian populace while holding these views. Both have private security.
Both have private security.
That carry 9mm guns.
Don't forget Beatoff O'Pork. He thinks he can become Gubinator by convincing Texans to disarm themselves.
Talk about not reading the room. "Don't worry, the police will protect you" just isn't going to fly anymore.
Did you see his grandstanding and campaigning when he hijacked the Uvalde press conference? I laughed when he got kicked out.
Only a messianic Democrat could have been that tone deaf.
Proggies - fulfilling the white savior trope while railing against the white savior trope. Their capacity to endure cognitive dissonance is limitless.
Mormons shouldn’t have guns. When your church encourages child abuse, you believe in magic underwear, and you worship a proven fraud who fucked a 15 year old, you lose the right to own a gun.
Disarm the Mormons!
Fuck off, you ban evading antisemite.
He really hates it when I get responses before he can derail the thread. The trolling is all about getting people of conscience to leave in disgust.
When he doxed that dead cop's family that was the last straw for me. I decided then that I was going to hound that fucker permanently and try to find out his real identity.
Lying about antisemitism while gargling antisemitic Chuck’s cum.
You’re fucking pathetic.
Keep pretending KKKar.
"Beatoff O'Pork"...took me a second...funny
Those who love America and our Constitution need to keep reminding their ignorant friends and family members that a couple of generations ago, many public schools in this country had gun clubs, target ranges, and teenagers were even allowed to bring their guns to most schools! And I'm not just talking about the Ozarks, this was true even in many New York City public schools. The scummy vermin in the lefty media don't want people to know this, but the older generations will absolutely confirm thst what I'm saying is true. And school shootings basically never happened until the Alinsky New Left started to make it's insidious rise, and the mental instructions were shut down.
Leave the Second Amendment alone, and get our country's most dangerous psychopaths off the streets and back inside a secure psychiatric facility where they belong so they can't hurt anyone.
Ok, so your plan is to lobotomize the antisocial degenerates and encourage incels to join the priesthood?
^This is what stupid looks like.^
I believe he’s been lobotomized.
Your plan is what created the antisocial degenerates and the incels.
You are why we have a 'gun violence's problem.
It's just fucking amazing how many of the most horrible parts of American history can be laid at the feet of the Democratic Party.
Leftists are literally cancer
Weigel's Cock Ring - "We need proper psychiatric care for these people."
Shrike - "Ok, so your plan is to lobotomize"
Ok, so your plan is to lobotomize the antisocial degenerates and encourage incels to join the priesthood?
Are you saying that mass lobotomizing the whole city of Portland and the nation's universities is a bad idea?
Incels don't need to join the priesthood, they just need to get off the internet and stop thinking they're the opposite gender.
a couple of generations ago, many public schools in this country had gun clubs, target ranges, and teenagers were even allowed to bring their guns to most schools!
That's true. But it is also true, that a few generations ago:
- weapons for public civilian use consisted overwhelmingly of hunting rifles, shotguns, pistols and revolvers, with the occasional antique piece and professional marksmanship rifle thrown in. Semi-auto weapons weren't really a thing. The AR-15 was very very new and not in wide circulation.
- public opinion strongly favored banning personal ownership of handguns
- DC vs. Heller wasn't a thing, in many places people had to get permission from the local sheriff in order to own a gun
So your nostalgia cuts both ways. Be careful what you wish for.
Please defend semi-automatic. Because repeater rifles and revolvers have existed over 100 years. I think you are uneducated here or are trying to rationalize gun grabbing.
Is the internet not protected by the 1A because it didn't exist even 70 years ago (if you go back to Arpanet)?
Also at the outset, cannons were in fact owned by private citizens. Stop getting your information from Biden talking points.
- public opinion strongly favored banning personal ownership of handguns
Cite?
"- weapons for public civilian use consisted overwhelmingly of hunting rifles, shotguns, pistols and revolvers, with the occasional antique piece and professional marksmanship rifle thrown in. Semi-auto weapons weren't really a thing. The AR-15 was very very new and not in wide circulation."
So what? The majority of deaths- including School Shootings- do not come from AR-15s. Even moreso, what you don't recognize is that one of the biggest uses of firearms at schools was ROTC training. This included training on military style weapons like the M1. Today, they would be training on the AR platform.
"- public opinion strongly favored banning personal ownership of handguns"
Citation?
"- DC vs. Heller wasn't a thing, in many places people had to get permission from the local sheriff in order to own a gun"
This is simply untrue. Some places- specifically some cities, and some southern towns where Democrats were trying to keep Blacks disarmed- had these rules. The majority of the country did not have laws limiting who could buy guns.
I would recommend challenging every liberal assumption you have made about guns.
Here is your citation:
Here is your citation:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx
And the point here is to challenge the argument by nostalgia. In the "good old days", did many highschoolers drove guns in their pickup trucks to school? Sure. But the entire attitude around guns was also much different in many other ways, and not always in a good way. Nostalgia is selective - we remember only the good parts and not the bad parts. Same deal here.
Don't accept the premise. Hunting rifles have been semi-automatic for longer than most have been alive. And they are universally more powerful than an AR.
Not a lefty, folks.
I see Jeff couldn't respond to any of his ideas yet again. Another example of his common trolling here. It is really just liberalism seeking some type of rationalization through bad understanding of libertarian beliefs.
Unlike you, I actually work for a living.
"- public opinion strongly favored banning personal ownership of handguns"
Ya ill have to request the cite for that.
Even if you find something for that (which I am very skeptical of) you are going to have to grapple with the fact that currently the majority are in favor of gun ownership. This includes those uppity blacks and hispanics you white liberals think you have ownership of.
The liberal position of gun bans, now handgun bans, is not popular. The amount of guns bought due to the dems posturing on this is going to be huge.
Oh fuck you. I support the right to own a gun. But I'm also not going to pretend that the 1950's was some halcyon time to which we should all hearken.
Now now Jeffy, no need for insults. Wouldn’t want anyone to think you’re a troll.
Good morning Peanuts! Have I mentioned what an amazingly successful liberal capitalist I am? Have I told you how great this Biden economy is? If you're not doing way better now compared to the Trump years, then your financial advisor must be a Republican who's sandbagging your portfolio to make Biden look bad.
#TemporarilyFillingInForButtplug
Buttplug has his hands full studying Chinese children's textbooks.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/30/tragically-ugly-school-textbook-social-media-outcry-china
Kind of hard for the usual suspects here to blame the parents puritanical outrage on evangelicals in atheist China.
But removing the L.P.'s long-standing pro-choice plank at a time when abortion access is under its gravest threat in the party's lifetime is disappointing, to say the least.
Don't let the speculum hit you in the ass on the way out.
Given there are libs on both sides of this argument, why is removing it a bad thing? Just because ENB doesn't approve?
ENB's understanding of the issue is superficial and childish. She hears the word "choice" and immediately thinks that's the correct libertarian position. She can't fathom that there would be pro-life libertarians, or that there is an unresolved (and maybe unresolvable) debate about when a clump of cells becomes a human life entitled to its own rights, including the right to life. ENB's not a libertarian, she's a libertine.
And also prone to judge issues based on how they affect sex workers.
"She's a libertine" - I'll be in my bunk
Our progressive allies continue to provide compelling legal analysis.
Today's 6 to 3 GOP Supreme Court must be viewed no differently than how we view the Republican party. It's simply a political movement that we must defeat. That means expanding the court, impeaching justices, etc. Our Freedom is at Risk!
#LibertariansForCourtExpansion
There is nothing worse than Twitter.
Ever hear of the US Congress?
Best reply to that tweet, made without a hint of self-awareness:
The 6 have proven that the court is no longer non-political. The 5 will vote as a block with Roberts maybe voting against them sometimes. The 5 are going to dismantle all of the progress we have made for a hundred years.
"When the 4 Democratic justices vote as a block, it's not political at all. When the Republican justices do it, it's political."
They love to conveniently forget about all the times that conservative justices voted against their block. I need to find it, but there was an analysis that showed conservative justices were more likely to join with the liberals on opinions, and that the liberals almost never voted against their "block."
And NONE of them wants to remember Gorsuch's trans ruling.
Not to mention that Douglas, Black, Burton, Minton, Reed, Clark, Frankfurter, Jackson, and Warren... those guys knew how to set a superprecedent without getting political!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10870549/Epic-Tattoo-Blunders-examples-worst-tattoos-shaking-head.html
Tat's not nice! Hilarious snaps reveal the worst tattoo blunders EVER - from misspelled motivational quotes to an onion in an armpit
Kueez have rounded up the best tattoo blunders with some questionable art
One Marilyn Monroe design appears to be a clown laughing rather than the icon
And finding a tattoo artist that knows how to spell is most definitely important
I must say the last one, the turtle on the guy's head, is very creative. Just hope he never goes bald.
Japan has approved abortion-inducing pills—but only if a patient has their partner's consent.
I can easily see both sides to this. one of the problems with the abortion debate is most people who have one position are simply unable to even imagine how someone else could come to an different conclusion.
proposals to raise the legal age for buying guns to 21 are gaining ground.
Now do abortion lol
Or genital mutilation .
I am approving of these two changes.
The LP *should* be neutral on the subject of abortion until the core issue with it (does a person take on an affirmative duty of care to a life they've created and when does that duty start) are ironed out.
"But removing the L.P.'s long-standing pro-choice plank at a time when abortion access is under its gravest threat in the party's lifetime is disappointing, to say the least."
Pro-life libertarians exist, ENB. Get over it.
Not just exist but have some very pro-libertarian notions about *everyone* having at least a bare minimum of agency and responsibility for their actions.
But... but... there's a remarkably stable consensus... A REMARKABLY STABLE CONSENSUS! THAT'S WHY IT CAN'T BE PUT TO A VOTE OR LEGISLATURES!
"when does that duty start"
Duties are, by there very nature, imposed.
The only imposed duties people have are the ones they are born with - that they respect the same rights of other individuals along with accepting their own.
The imposition of duty by some authority is inherently coercive.
problems with Mother Nature too?
So parents can throw their babies in dumpsters?
Fifth trimester clumps of cells.
Funny, but there are tons of duties I've accepted voluntarily. Indeed, my current job is full of duties I've accepted without coercion.
There is such a thing as someone forcing you to fulfill a duty you've taken on voluntarily.
Otherwise, are you really saying that a parent could just toss a two year old out into the street to fend for themselves?
Or a pilot can toss their passenger off the plane midair.
Before we take off, the cabin staff will run through a quick safety demonstration in the event that the pilot decides to exercise his right to choose at any point up to and including the full term of the flight.
Duties are part of responsibilities.
If you don't believe you can create duties for yourself as a consequence of your actions, you don't believe in personal responsibility.
Further, I don't see how your view of duty can be reconciled with a free market. If you're a pilot who agrees to fly a customer to a specific destination, do you not have a duty to safely deliver your customer?
>>removing the L.P.'s long-standing pro-choice plank ... is disappointing, to say the least.
keep voting (D) nothing will change.
>>Scientists don't know what effect mild but repeated COVID-19 infections will have.
fucking dying to find out the long-terms of the vaccines.
The same effect as any virus like the cold. How do I apply for my multi million dollar grant?
Libertarian Party (L.P.) plank changes on bigotry, abortion. Two changes in the L.P. platform are raising eyebrows. The first—which has garnered greater attention—removes language saying "we condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant." In its place, the plank will state: "We uphold and defend the rights of every person, regardless of their race, ethnicity, or any other aspect of their identity."
This is the correct libertarian position. Full stop.
L.P.'s long-standing pro-choice plank at a time when abortion access is under its gravest threat in the party's lifetime is disappointing, to say the least. And more than the other change, it implies a shift in policy priorities.
It almost makes on think that there isn't a "remarkably stable consensus" on abortion.
This is the correct libertarian position. Full stop.
Why is it the correct libertarian position to be morally neutral when it comes to bigotry? That smacks of an extreme sort of moral relativism.
^bigot
Standing for the rights of all people is anti-bigotry.
It is necessary but not sufficient.
"Why is it the correct libertarian position to be morally neutral when it comes to bigotry?"
Literally nobody advocated this.
Say Jeff, I've never heard you explicitly come out against cannibalism, serial killers and horsefucking.
Why don't have you have a statement of antipathy towards those things tattooed on your forehead? It must mean that you're morally neutral when it comes to them.
using the word "bigotry" is just posturing. Changing the language to explicitly call out the support and commitment to the rights of every person regardless of race creed color etc is the more articulate and comprehensive way of putting it.
Why is it not the correct libertarian position to vociforously stand up against socialism? And fascism? And murder? Should we have a platform position that explains it is bad to murder people?
The platform should be the roadmap that the Libertarian Party intends to enact if it ever has political power. As that won't include policing the thoughts of other people, there is zero value including it in the actual platform.
The platform should be the roadmap that the Libertarian Party intends to enact if it ever has political power.
Sure. And it also has plenty of statements of principle. In fact the current platform has an entire section entitled "Statement of Principles". These aren't directly actionable per se. They represent a list of principles that the party claims to subscribe to.
https://www.lp.org/platform/
And no one is suggesting "policing the thoughts" of anyone. No one here is advocating making bigotry illegal. A bigot should have every right to be a bigot. But, why are we pretending that the bigot and the non-bigot should occupy the same moral plane?
This is also from the platform:
"we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals"
Is this statement "thought policing"? What about the people who DO want the government to interfere with "voluntary and contractual relations among individuals"? Hmm?
"we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals"
Is this statement "thought policing"?
Holy shit.
This!
Which part of "free minds" do you not understand?
All of the parts, apparently.....
I was unaware that "free minds" meant "every thought is equally valid".
Keep going Jeffy, you’re doing great!
Because libertarians are against wrongthink. An official condemnation of bigotry is perpetuating wrongthink.
It's a reasonable stance during a time when bigotry has become a loaded term. They just state directly what they mean rather than rely on the term which has become very broad and generic in current usage.
You know what I want on the platform? Condemnation of people with bad breath. If you can’t brush your fucking teeth, find another party!
""We uphold and defend the rights of every person, regardless of their race, ethnicity, or any other aspect of their identity.""
We need to be moving closer to an actual color blind society. The above statement does that perfectly. Obsessing about race and racism in a country that has not only objectively moved forwards by massive leaps and bounds, but is also probably one of the least racist countries in the world...is counter productive.
Treating "bigotry" as an existential threat is how someone like Ibram X Kendi ends up unironically writing about how he was cowering in his locked apartment, terrified that a Klansman at any moment might bust in his door and lynch him...in fucking 1990's Virginia. It allows people to mentally live in a world that doesn't actually exist, for the sole purpose of pitting people against one another.
Jimbo, check this out:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx
If things are so great, why are so many people dissatisfied with how they are treated?
Is it so surprising?
When the popular culture, media, and academia drill into peoples heads that your skin color is literally the most important thing, it is the cause of everything bad that happens to you, and those other people are the oppressors who have set society up for their benefit and your loss...apparently those people grow up to be angry and resentful.
But of course, that is literally the goal of these people. Finding racism around every corner and a white supremacist under every bed, and telling POC that everything is terrible and horrible...oh and by the way give them more power so they'll make it all better.
Can you look at a country that went from owning slaves, to freeing the slaves, to having and then removing racist laws, to having a civil rights movement resulting in equal rights, to go from a society where interracial marriage went from an abomination to being celebrated, to having people of color celebrated whenever humanly possible while white people are self flagellating for their horrible crime of being boring white-cis-heteros...can you look at that country and say today bigotry is still such a problem that we have to name it and condemn it daily. By the way did you denounce white supremacy today? I havent heard you do it today so ill just put you down for "cool with white supremacy".
The problem is this hyper intense focus on "racism" and "bigotry" (I use quotations because the definition creep for those words is atrocious at this point) will continue to go on so long as:
a) white liberals realize they can maintain their elite status, comfortable lives, and most importantly attain more power while virtue signaling they are one of the good ones
b) activists of victim groups (race or gender) realize they can grift on this system and make a fortune with no actual talent whatsoever (Kendi, Hannah-Jones, Joy Reid, Hannah Gadsby, Robin Deangelo just to name a few). Apparently being able to say "oh...that thing happened/happens is cuz bigotry" and that leading to a multimillion dollar career makes a lot of people find bigotry everywhere.
This type of argument cuts both ways though. Perhaps it is you who is so insulated by your own experiences that you cannot accept the honest opinions of others with experiences much different than yours, so instead you have to invent dark motives and conspiracy theories on the part of those with whom you disagree.
At the end of the day, I'm going to be more interested in the opinions of those who empirically observe racism and bigotry in their daily lives, rather than some armchair Internet warrior.
I think it behooves all of us to actually listen to the experiences of other people and try to learn from them. Not the Robin DiAngelos out there, but normal everyday people.
Ohh, still didn’t denounce white supremacy! Very telling.
" so instead you have to invent dark motives and conspiracy theories on the part of those with whom you disagree."
...
“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza...We are trained Marxists" - BLM co-founder Patrice Cullors
I dont actually have to invent dark motives when every now and then they spell it out for us. This has always been the grift.
That Cullors is a "trained Marxist" doesn't prove your contention that they deliberately stoke and encourage racial division so as to feather their own nests.
That they got rich using the race grift, are actively squandering their fortunes on mansions and bentleys rather than families that have asked for their help (this is a common theme, of course, with communists...some animals are more equal than others in the end)...they have included mentioning they are trained marxists in talks about their ideological frame, and they support CRT which is a direct offshoot of critical theory (marxist practice), with the focus being shifted from class (which failed in America) to race (which they are getting great traction with)...
I dont think its fair to assume I "invented" their dark motives so much as I listened to what they told me they were going to do.
You realize no matter what you say you’re not convincing Jeffy of anything right?
I absolutely do think that there are grifters in the BLM movement, just like there are grifters in any mass movement. Evidence of this comes from the mansions and the Bentleys, not from the Marxism.
Lmao. You’re such a fucking joke.
I'm going to be more interested in the opinions of those who empirically observe racism and bigotry in their daily lives,
That's because when the inevitable conflict between egalitarian and libertarian thoughts happens, you choose egalitarianism. I told you they were incompatible, thanks for validating me.
To pro-abortion libertarians, the Party is a big tent, until the pro-life libertarians stop sitting down and shutting up.
>>Plastic recycling does not work and will never work
was led to believe we sell our recylables to china and *they* dump it in the ocean for us.
https://twitter.com/johnlegend/status/1530757039642779649?s=20&t=3dK9mke8A5mDDKn7uYPv5g
John Legend says don't talk about the black-on-black homicide epidemic in America's cities because that's racist.
The hilarious part is him saying that anyone bringing up black-on-black shootings is "deflecting."
Clean your own fucking house, first, John, since you clearly don't want any white people sticking their nose in it other than to demand they snap their fingers and turn every black neighborhood in to a non-white version of Beaver Cleaver's.
The sad fact is, black-on-black violent crime is epidemic in cities. Thousands of young black men are killed every year, and yet, any honest discussion of the problem is off limits.
How is it more racist to talk about a problem that is destroying human potential in these communities, than it is to let thousands of young, black men continue to die senselessly every year?
It's always so dumb too, because even if it's disproportionately young black men doing it, it's still a small portion of young black men in total. I don't understand why it is considered so hard to walk this line.
Simple. There is no guilt money in it.
Like the Washington Post has ANY credibility on its editorial positions surrounding COVID and treatment.
If anyone can point out how the Washington Post behaves any differently than if it was owned directly by the DNC, I'd be interested in hearing it.
I don't know for certain, but it seems like if it were owned directly by the DNC, more staffers would reply to phishing schemes and use 'password' as their passwords.
' which says "government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration"—from the party's platform. This means that the party is officially neutral on the legality of abortion. "
So the party position is neutral on the legality but the state need not be ?
That almost seems like a contradiction.
Or it recognizes that there is not a consensus and that the US is composed of states and thus individual states can closer reflect their citizen's consensus that can be done at the federal level.
But it does not say that in the platform !
The idea the LP would claim neutrality but allow the state to do what it pleases is nonsensical
The Chron was too embarrassed to put it in the e-version, but (front page) print has "experts" now claiming the covid death tolls are under-counted, since they don't include stress-related gun and auto deaths (which stress had nothing to do with the wu-flu, and everything to do with that asshole Newsom).
Turns out the Uvalde school district recently held a training session for shooters in schools. The cops were instructed that the first priority was to engage the shooter, and:
"A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field"
Now let's see if they walk the talk.
Sussman not guilty. There's a big, fat, fucking surprise.
https://nypost.com/2022/05/31/ex-clinton-campaign-lawyer-sussmann-acquitted-in-trump-russia-trial/
"You're on trial for lying to the FBI about Trump/Russia collusion. Did you lie to the FBI about Trump/Russia collusion?"
"Oh yes, definitely, and here's how. But it's okay, I'm with Hillary."
"Not guilty."
Unless Durham can get these trials out of DC he shouldn’t bother:
“Making matters worse, the Sussmann judge wrongly allowed for a woman to remain on the jury, despite the fact that her daughter and Sussmann’s are on the same high school crew team. One can’t help but think that juror had her own daughter’s interests in mind – the cohesion of the crew team – when she reached a decision.”
https://technofog.substack.com/p/michael-sussmann-has-been-acquitted?s=r
No one is EVER going to be held responsible for the Trump/Russia hoax. It would expose the rampant corruption of the entire US government, as well as the press. Same reason there will never be any serious examination of the 2020 election. There's enough there to expose the entire DNC machine, so it can't see the inside of a courtroom.
Probably the only thing that can come from Durham is that maybe some people who maybe didn't realize before will see what a corrupt cesspool their government is.
Unfortunately anyone who isn’t already aware of what’s going on will never hear about the details of this case.
Not really, you have to evidence to get a conviction. These cases often end in plea bargains. The fact that Sussman and his lawyers took it to a jury tells you the prosecution had nothing. And why, because there is no Russian hoax. The Trump campaign and administration had close ties to the Russians. There is evidence of those ties, some from the candidate himself.
John Durham, like Michael Gableman in Wisconsin, is spending taxpayers' money to appease the ego of the former President. Want to stop wasteful spending, here is where to start.
Well, this was entirely predictable.
Teen arrested after posting guns, caption asking Siri for directions to nearest school, sheriff says
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-man-arrested-posting-guns-caption-asking-siri-directions-neare-rcna31208
It doesn't look like this guy did anything tangibly threatening. The dumbass posted a picture of himself with guns and a caption of "Siri, where's the nearest school?" Looks more like trolling and shitposting, frankly.
BUT, this is how the non-libertarian world (which is most of it) will respond to instances of mass shootings, particularly ones with kids as the victims. They will seek unlibertarian, anti-liberty 'solutions', like arresting a guy for making a threat, when he didn't actually make a threat, just exercised poor judgment (it appears).
Which is why it is important that we in the liberty community come up with liberty-minded ideas for how to respond. We had a good discussion on that on Friday's Reason Roundup. Because if we don't come up with a solution that is to our satisfaction, then one we don't like will be imposed upon us.
That's how it's done, Jeff. Stupid or mental the response is to treat the incident not the why of the matter. For example, one shoe mentally unstable man made a crude, makeshift shoe bomb-like device and now we must all have our shoes inspected before we board. Unless we are willing to pay the government fee to be inspected at a deeper level so that we are allowed access others don't have. TSA special clearance. As a last step, sell the vetting process to a private company to set up shop in your neighborhood airport and add a subscription model. All because a guy had a bad shoe bomb.
Florida guy has nobody to blame but himself. Stupid trolling met with a heavy handed response following two shootings is the 'right' response. Someone is doing something.
This is the best description of american airport security theater I have ever read.
Lived through it from day 1 following 9/11. Logged my fair share of miles.
There is a reason TSA is referred to as 'Thousands Standing Around'
My buddy and I used to send each other pictures of TSA agents standing around while a giant line flows out into the Departures drop off lanes of the airports. My god I'm glad I don't travel nearly so much any more.
Turnabout and whatnot: if he were a woman, posting for the 19th time, "Siri, where's the nearest abortion clinic?" she would be a hero.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a6ba70d6-df84-11ec-baab-53d14c642149?shareToken=7a61dce8fac7b10fd9602aa770a0364e
Coming soon to your neighborhood: UK facing blackouts and electricity rationing this winter.
"Six million households could face blackouts this winter because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, ministers have been warned, as they look to bolster electricity supplies by prolonging the life of coal and nuclear power stations."
close the TESLA stations before grandma's heat gets gut off
The electric car charging stations get priority. If grandma wants to stay warm this winter, she better but a Tesla and live in it.
Canada is sitting on trillions of tons of LNG that it can't ship. Too bad Biden and Trudeau decided shutting down LHG pipelines to the coast was fashionable.
Gieringer needs to retake civics class.
I've spent too many years following marijuana policy to trust that this decision will stand up. Insofar as delta-8 is synthetically derived from hemp by chemical synthesis, not extraction, a strong case exists that it is not a protected derivative of hemp, but rather an illegal Schedule One cannabinoid analog. DOJ attorneys weren't involved in this case because it was a civil trademark dispute between private parties. Were the DEA to arrest distributors on criminal charges, the decision might well be different. Stay tuned to the ongoing legal mess over the CSA.
The NORML director quoted seems confused. It is not the judiciary's job to set cannabis policy. The court decided whether the law covered Delta 8. It was not deciding whether the law should cover Delta 8 rather than Delta 9. That is outside its scope of work, and the court does not and should not care how much study on either compound has been done to decide whether the legislature made the Delta 8 variant illegal.
We need to have lobbyists embrace the limited role of the courts and not suggest that it is a place to get a do over on the legislative process, if the process was within constitutional bounds.
It's so hard to jump into the daily fun if one shows up late.
you still get read.
Nah. Not if you don’t care whether anyone replies or not.
Maybe it’s just me.
picked up some Grapefruit Strain yesterday and am relatively certain it's delta-nine is turned up to eleven
"If the plastics industry is following the tobacco industry’s playbook, it may never admit to the failure of plastics recycling."
Wait, tobacco is fairly easy to recycle. I understand you can also burn it quite easily. If plastic gives off to many toxic chemicals when burned maybe we just need to up the heat to burn the toxins.
Japan has approved abortion-inducing pills—but only if a patient has their partner's consent.
It's tragic to see a country literally overflowing with infants putting such patriarchal restrictions on murder.
"Another study links coffee consumption with lower risk of death."
Is coffee even legal in Cali4knee-A as it's known to cause cancer if you drink over 4 cubic meters (1,057 gallons) per day?
Shit. I think I do drink that much.
This is where imperial measurements screw me over. How much is an acre foot of coffee vs a cubic meter?
Is it too late for me?
An acre foot is a little over 1,200 cubic meters so I'm gonna say yeah, you're likely in the "at risk" category.
Same here I only drink 3 cups a day, measured by Jupiter's days
Those Mises Caucus extremists are messing things up just as the LP was showing signs of success with its new woke strategy.
(I won't add "/sarc" because I want to see who thinks I'm serious)
It seems the biggest issue with the Libertarian party is infiltration by the religious right, as well as the morons that endlessly batter each other in these comments. Mostly with fake names, 'cuz cowards.
The new vocabulary is "Christofascists." You're behind. Did you not check your talking points email?
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.
YOU COWARDS SHOULD STOP CALLING EACH OTHER NAMES!
"Another study links coffee consumption with lower risk of death."
Lower risk of death? How is that even possible? Here I thought life kinda made death a certainty. I'd like to meet the immortals who did this study.
I'd like to meet the immortals who did this study.
They're hard to find. Cloistering in back alley holes in the wall, dispensing arcane concoctions from their secretive speakeasies. If we could find them and unravel their methods, we could put their secret fonts of immortality on every other street corner; maybe even in every kitchen, office of employment, and waiting room! Then we wouldn't have to die young like the people in Japan where tea is the ceremonial drink of choice.