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Reason Roundup

Alito's Draft Opinion That Would Overturn Roe Is a Disaster of Legal Reasoning

Plus: How abortion used to be less partisan, NFT sales have plummeted, and more...

Elizabeth Nolan Brown | 5.4.2022 9:53 AM

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sfphotosfive410023 | CHINE NOUVELLE/SIPA/Newscom
(CHINE NOUVELLE/SIPA/Newscom)

The leaked draft of a Supreme Court opinion overturning Roe v. Wade continues to spawn confusion, anger, anxiety, and ample predictions. Today I'm going to hone in on some of these reactions to the draft opinion, starting with people questioning some key claims within it.

The February draft—published Monday by Politico and verified as authentic by Chief Justice John Roberts—concerns the case of a 15-week abortion ban in Mississippi (Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization). It was penned by Justice Samuel Alito and is labeled as the opinion of the Court. In it, Alito writes that the Court must overturn both Roe v. Wade (1973) and Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992), the main legal precedents upon which abortion rights in America are based.

Alito's logic in the draft opinion is raising many an eyebrow. Among his reasons for rejecting Roe and Casey, Alito notes that "the Constitution makes no reference to abortion." And while the 14th Amendment's Due Process Clause has been held to enshrine rights not explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, such rights must be "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition" and "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty," writes Alito, adding that "the right to an abortion does not fall within this category."

"But there is at least one big way in which the unenumerated right at issue in Dobbs may very well fall into this category," writes Reason's Damon Root:

Namely, the right to terminate a pregnancy may be justly seen as a subset of the right to bodily integrity. And the right of bodily integrity has a very impressive historical pedigree indeed. In fact, as the legal scholar Sheldon Gelman detailed in a 1994 Minnesota Law Review article, the right to bodily integrity may be traced back to the Magna Carta. That makes it one of the many rights "retained by the people" (in the words of the Ninth Amendment) that were imported from English law into the Constitution.

The constitutional right at issue in Dobbs only fails the "deeply rooted" in history and tradition test (a test wholly invented by the Supreme Court, by the way) when the Court defines the right narrowly. But when the right is defined broadly—defined as a subset of the venerable and longstanding right of bodily integrity, in other words—then the right passes the test.

University of Maryland history professor Holly Brewer points out that Alito derives support for his arguments from 17th century British common law, which sometimes made abortion a crime if it took place after the "quickening." But the quickening refers to the point in a pregnancy at which a mother can feel a fetus moving inside her—something that doesn't usually happen until around 16 weeks pregnancy at the earliest.

"This 17th-18th century understanding would mean upholding Roe, and disallowing Dobbs," notes Brewer. "So Alito then says the common law somehow must have made abortion illegal before quickening — without a shred of evidence."

6/ It was not even a past precedent in the Catholic Church in the 18th c., which also held to the quickening rule. Such logic falls apart upon the barest scrutiny. It is the definition of reactionary.

— Holly Brewer (@earlymodjustice) May 4, 2022

Jason Kuznicki, editor in chief of the think tank TechFreedom, takes issue with the idea that rights must be "deeply rooted in history" in order to be valid. This concept "implies that the rights of some people will always be less important than the rights of others. It also raises the question: How far back do the roots of our rights really go?" Kuznicki tweeted, noting that some currently recognized rights—including the right to marry people of the same sex—are not deeply rooted.

"The more we privilege deep roots in history, the more weight we have to give to some terribly illiberal ideas," added Kuznicki. "Rights for white people have deeper roots than rights for black people, and no amount of time can change that."

Democratic politicians are angry, obviously. For instance: "I am angry. Angry and upset and determined," Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren told reporters (while trampling some plants). "The United States Congress can keep Roe v. Wade the law of the land, they just need to do it."

They're vowing to fight back, although what they can realistically do is limited.

Some Republicans are mad, too:

JUST IN: @SenatorCollins statement pic.twitter.com/d4hTtY0An0

— Sarah Ewall-Wice (@EwallWice) May 3, 2022

But Collins is in the minority among Republican legislators.

Some people are still lingering on how or why the draft was leaked and what it means. Some—including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R–Ky.)—are even calling for the leaker to be criminally prosecuted.

But this obsession with process and punishment over the substance of the opinion is pretty weird. "The Court's credibility doesn't depend on ceremonies or secrets or mystique. It depends on it getting the answers right," notes Timothy Sandefur, an adjunct at Cato and vice president at Goldwater Institute. "If it gets the answers wrong; no amount of officialdom and ritual will save it. If it gets the answers right, none is necessary."

Obviously ceremony, decorum & procedure are crucial. Not denying that. But they must not obscure the SUBSTANCE of jurisprudence. And too often we let it do that. The result is to resort to cliches & hollow platitudes—which actually only renders the rule of law MORE vulnerable.

— Timothy Sandefur (@TimothySandefur) May 4, 2022

What happens next? We still don't know if the court's final opinion will resemble this leaked draft. But many are making predictions predicated on the idea that it is the final opinion. These predictions include dire scenarios of unsafe illegal abortions and widely disappeared access to abortion.

But Reason's Jacob Sullum suggests that the impact will be much more limited than many assume:

Last year, based on a scenario in which 22 states banned abortion, Middlebury College economist Caitlin Knowles Myers projected that the annual number of abortions in the U.S. would fall by about 14 percent. In Texas, which banned the vast majority of abortions last September and avoided early judicial intervention by restricting enforcement to private civil actions, the net impact seems to have been a drop of about 10 percent.

Americans should keep those surprisingly modest estimates in mind as they try to predict what will happen after the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, as a leaked draft of the majority opinion in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization suggests it will soon do. While many states are expected to respond by imposing severe restrictions on abortion, most probably will not. And even in states that ban elective abortions, workarounds will mitigate the impact of those laws.

It's not just the impact on abortion access that people are worried about, however. Many are concerned about the way the ruling could lead to a rethinking of other Supreme Court precedents.

"As we've warned, SCOTUS isn't just coming for abortion — they're coming for the right to privacy Roe rests on which includes gay marriage + civil rights," Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D–N.Y.) tweeted.

Some Republicans "want to take us back to a time before Roe v. Wade, back to a time before Obergefell v. Hodges, back to a time before Griswold v. Connecticut," suggested Vice President Kamala Harris said in a Tuesday speech.

Whoopi Goldberg suggested on The View that the Supreme Court "will go after gay marriage and maybe Brown v. Board of Education" next.

Reason's Scott Shackford suggests that such fears are largely unfounded.

What it would mean for electoral politics is anyone's guess. "It's not clear that it will give the party any significant boost in the upcoming midterm elections," writes Nicole Narea at Vox. Meanwhile, CNN suggests that "the Supreme Court may have just fundamentally altered the 2022 election."

Democrats are certainly already campaigning on this issue.

"If the Court does overturn Roe, it will fall on our nation's elected officials at all levels of government to protect a woman's right to choose," President Joe Biden said in a Tuesday statement. "And it will fall on voters to elect pro-choice officials this November."

"Women are going to go to vote in numbers we have never seen before," Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D–Minn.) said on CBS.

They're also using it to push other reforms, like an end to the filibuster:

Congress must pass legislation that codifies Roe v. Wade as the law of the land in this country NOW. And if there aren't 60 votes in the Senate to do it, and there are not, we must end the filibuster to pass it with 50 votes.

— Bernie Sanders (@SenSanders) May 3, 2022

In the longer term, some see it invigorating Democratic support and/or intensifying culture wars.

"Americans are almost evenly divided on their personal views of abortion, according to years of Gallup polling, but only 19 percent think abortion should be illegal under all circumstances," notes Bret Stephens in The New York Times. "It shouldn't be hard to imagine how Americans will react to the court conspicuously providing aid and comfort to the 19 percent."


FREE MINDS

A reminder that abortion hasn't always been as neatly divided between left and right as it is today:

I did a text search of "abortion" in my book on the history of the religious right, We Gather Together. I used the word 705 times. But this might be the passage I'd point journalists to right now: "in 1973, most religious conservatives did not oppose abortion." pic.twitter.com/B0R6BGOBhZ

— Neil J. Young (@NeilJYoung17) May 3, 2022

I won't join in the speculative frenzy tonight, but I'll recommend this thread (and Neil's book) for some valuable historical perspective. (And I'll add that the left wasn't united on abortion yet in 1973 either. For more on that, read Daniel Williams: https://t.co/0xSl6qY3AC.) https://t.co/lhCjjjfQtH

— Jesse Walker (@notjessewalker) May 3, 2022

More on the history of the anti-abortion movement here.


FREE MARKETS

Is the nonfungible token (NFT) bubble bursting? Daily average NFT sales are down 92 percent from their September 2021 high, the Wall Street Journal reports:

The number of active wallets in the NFT market fell 88% to about 14,000 last week from a high of 119,000 in November. NFTs are bitcoin-like digital tokens that act like a certificate of ownership that live on a blockchain. …

Many NFT owners are finding their investments are worth significantly less than when they bought them.

An NFT of the first tweet from Twitter Inc. co-founder Jack Dorsey sold in March 2021 for $2.9 million to Sina Estavi, the chief executive of Malaysia-based blockchain company Bridge Oracle.

Earlier this year, Mr. Estavi put the NFT up for auction. He didn't receive any bids above $14,000, which he didn't accept.

'The NFT market is collapsing. Sales fell to a daily average of about 19,000 this week, a 92% decline from a peak of about 225,000 in September. Active wallets fell 88% to about 14,000 last week from a high of 119,000 in November.' https://t.co/ChjpIwu3OP pic.twitter.com/tTfezUQPjK

— Jesse Felder (@jessefelder) May 3, 2022


QUICK HITS

• Hillbilly Elegy author and Donald Trump–backed candidate J.D. Vance has won the Ohio GOP Senate primary.

• "Vance's victory deals a body blow to a small but noticeable resurgence of anti-Trump—or post-Trump—sentiment in the GOP," suggest Jonathan Swan and Lachlan Markay at Axios.

• More Trump-backed candidate wins from Tuesday primaries.

  • The Department of Homeland Security is yet again extending the Real ID deadline for air travel.

• Lab-grown "human milk" may be coming soon.

• The Disinformation Panic: "This 'unprecedented crisis for democracy' is neither unprecedented nor a crisis for democracy," writes Tiffany Donnelly at Reason.

Start your day with Reason. Get a daily brief of the most important stories and trends every weekday morning when you subscribe to Reason Roundup.

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NEXT: J.D. Vance Takes Victory in Ohio GOP Senate Primary

Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a senior editor at Reason.

Reason RoundupJ.D. VanceAbortionReproductive FreedomRightsConstitutionSamuel AlitoPregnancyWomen's Rights14th Amendment
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  1. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Multiple violent protests erupted yesterday in cities like LA after the VP tweeted.

    Vice President Kamala Harris
    @VP

    United States government official
    This is the time to fight for women and our country with everything we have. My statement on the Supreme Court decision draft on Roe v. Wade.

    A committee must be formed and impeachment started over this insurrection. Right?

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      Only if there were boots on desks.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        A D.C. rally by abortion rights supporters who then mob the Capitol could be hilarious.

        1. ThomasD   3 years ago

          Not enough FBI plants willing to egg them on.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Those eggs were aborted anyways.

            1. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

              Eggs are transphobic ropedoes.

              1. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

                ‘Torpedoes’.

        2. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

          I wouldn't dismiss the possibility. If there is one thing the last two years has proven it is that God has a very good sense of humor.

          We already have the spectacle of leftists who have spent the last two years demanding mandatory vaccination and saying there is no such thing as a "woman" suddenly chanting "my body my choice" and "a woman's right to choose". So, I don't think there is any set limit on the hilarity and insanity circumstances will illicit from these people.

          1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

            Case A: Experience a quick needle-stick, or get fired from your job, and go find another job. Maybe be unemployed for a tad.

            Case B: Lying Lothario knocked you up, after SWEARING up and down that you were His One And Only for LIFE! Now you find out that Lothario has 7 other pregnant lied-to babes! And you can no long opt OUT of Lothario's having won the genetic (harem) lottery! Here we go; we are on the way to evolving humans into elephant seals, where the biggest lying genetic-lottery-winner gets the loot, and meek and mild, honest could-have-been-fathers' interests are shoved aside!

            Which fucked-up case sounds more fucked up to you?

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              No false scenarios there.

              1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                Lying Lothario is FAR less mythical than unicorns or data-driven, benevolent, non-uber-tribalistic Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrers!

                1. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

                  ^ THIS is your best argument for unfettered abortin rights?

                  1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                    I treasure the human future, where good fathers win out over Lying Lothario's genetic, sociobiological, and cultural black hole. Lying Lothario doesn't deserve the genetic lottery winnings, nor a harem.

                    Do YOU want humans to evolve in the elephant seal direction?

                    1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   3 years ago

                      Awwww…. SQRLSY is an incel! Probably coulda guessed that.

                    2. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                      So only incels favor good fathers over Lying Lotharios in the evolutionary fight? Spoken like an elephant seal! Y'all's noses are GAWD-awfully UGLY, by the way!

                    3. Nick Gillespie's Sweatervest   3 years ago

                      Also, do you know what a lothario is, Sqrlsy?

                  2. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                    If you want my VERY best argument... It is that we need religious freedom from (or alternatives to) the "shaming wand"!

                    http://www.churchofsqrls.com/sonograms/

                    1. MrBoz   3 years ago

                      Stay in Cali - you'll be able to child sacrifice all you want. Calm down and read the article, the sky is not falling but we understand that fear and lies are how you're contrilled.

            2. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

              Yeah, losing your job for refusing to take medical treatment is just no big deal. You are such a totalitarian asshole, you don't even realize it. It is just the air your breath.

              1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                My business, built by my labor and already-heavily-taxed money! I should get to "call the shots"! It is the totalitarians who say "You didn't build that, so WE will call the shots"!

                1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

                  it is cute you think that anyone believes you have ever had a job much less have a business

                  And your can call the shots on your business? Oh really, unless it involves being a part of a gay wedding and that is different right?

                  And businesses were forced by the government to require vaccination. Stop lying. It is pathetic.

                  1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                    "And businesses were forced by the government to require vaccination." That was wrong, and I never said anything to the contrary. Ditto "gay wedding cake" mandates.

                    TX Governor Abbott, though, pretended to be the business owners, and FORBADE them from firing at will (for this one select reason)! WHO is the authoritarian / totalitarian HERE?

                    1. DesigNate   3 years ago

                      I’m sorry, but no, a business does not have a right to force me to take an experimental drug. Especially at the overt threat of an overreaching government.

                      And you try to call yourself a libertarian.

                    2. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                      No business ever did that! They ALWAYS allowed you to QUIT your job, as an alternative!

                      If you think you have "rights" to your job, in violation of the wishes of your employer... Then WHO is the Marxist collectivist property-rights-grabber here?

                    3. MrBoz   3 years ago

                      Got it. At my business I'll fire you if you've had an abortion. Oh and I'll demand you show me your medical records. Cool with that?

                    4. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                      Yes, I am cool with "hire and fire at will", so long as no voluntary contracts are broken.

                  2. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

                    He in business. The business of eating his own shit. And possibly the shit of others.

              2. R Mac   3 years ago

                Speaking of the air it breathes, all I see is a grey box that smells like the shit it eats.

                1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                  I, too, from My Lordly Perch on High, SNEER at the grey boxes! I refute ALL that they say, by ignoring them! Yea verily, I refute reality and the ENTIRE UNIVERSE, by ignoring them all! THIS is the Secret to My Vast Powers, and I now share it with ye lowly ones, for FREE!!!

                  (Bow LOW, peons, and express some GRATITUDE and OBEDIENCE!)

                  1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                    Lol, that really pissed him off R Mac. He literally posted a caps-lock "SNEER" just like Hihn used to.

                    1. R Mac   3 years ago

                      Is it funny enough to unmute the shiteater?

                    2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                      No.

                    3. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

                      SQRLSY is a cannibal. A snot eater composed entirely of shit.

                    4. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

                      ‘Shit eater’

                  2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   3 years ago

                    “They ALWAYS allowed you to QUIT your job, as an alternative!

                    Lol. “They” ALWAYS allowed the virgins to “JUMP” into the volcano, as an alternative!

                    1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                      Yeah, as if burning to death is just the same as needing to find a new job!

                    2. Red Rocks White Privilege   3 years ago

                      Yeah, as if burning to death is just the same as needing to find a new job!

                      Are you volunteering to find out?

              3. waxliberty   3 years ago

                Or just take the f'ing swab test to reduce risk of harm to your co-workers during a pandemic, dial down the sociopathy, keep the job.

                Alright alright, yes the bit about dialing down the sociopathy wasn't part of the rule. My bad.

            3. Apollo 1   3 years ago

              We should have a law that forces dead beat dads to pay or go to prison. The women who sleep with these blokes shouldn't be rewarded for having unprotected sex with the worst possible males.

              1. BillyG   3 years ago

                Pro-life people support child support during pregnancy.
                https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-utah-law-requires-dads-to-pay-prenatal-child-support

                Pro-Abortion people oppose it once they find out Pro-life supports it.
                https://vianovamedia.com/dem-withdraws-bill-making-dads-pay-child-support-from-moment-of-conception-after-pro-lifers-support-it/

                1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                  So BillyG... Did you deliberately marry a woman with a "plus-sized" cohort, of already-made family? To reduce the incentives that women face (to abort, in case of falling for a "Lying Lothario"), in that (the smart ones at least) women generally know that a "ready-made family" does NOT help them to catch a good man? If you're NOT a hypocrite, you'd be doing this! And donating FREE childcare (baby-sitting services etc.), to women who've kept their babies in dicey situations!

                  I suspect a lot of these "helpers" help till the baby is born... And then they skee-daddle! Surely they (at BEST case) do NOT make a proper substitute for a good devoted father!

                2. JesseAz   3 years ago

                  Lol. Wow. Always projection from the left.

              2. Harry Jones   3 years ago

                That is racist as it would disparately affect mostly Democrat voting black fathers who by far have the highest rate of ditching pregnant women. Why are pro choice men so irresponsible?

            4. DesigNate   3 years ago

              Fuck off with that shit. Unless I brought you into existence, I have no moral obligation to protect you from nature. I also don’t have the right to throw you to a bear in someone’s trunk.

            5. EISTAU Gree-Vance   3 years ago

              Case A: do as you’re told or lose your job.

              Case B: don’t sleep with a douchebag, and if you do, use protection. If that fails go to neighboring state to solve your little clump of a problem, then return to life as normal and use better judgment regarding sperm providers.

              What point were you trying to make, squirrel? That case A is way more fucked up?

              Good job!

              1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                Where are the lied-to babes gonna go to get an abortion, after ye fascists outlaw it nation-wide or world-wide? Fascists gotta fascist, yes, but they should QUIT, and just mind their OWN business, is my point! We'd all be better off!

          2. Weigel's Cock Ring   3 years ago

            If you refuse to wear a cloth face mask, you're a monster who wants to kill grandma and everyone else who comes near you.

            That eight and a half month old fetus on the other hand? Fuck that thing, it can't even speak yet!

            1. Unable2Reason   3 years ago

              Or wear a mask yet.

              1. R Mac   3 years ago

                That’s the real reason it should be killed.

      2. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

        We are talking about Harris here. I think you mean "boots in the air".

        1. Nardz   3 years ago

          Or head under the desk.

        2. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

          I hear Harris wants American boots in the air in Ukraine.

    2. Seamus   3 years ago

      Well, she did use the word "fight," which I've been assured constitutes a clear incitement to insurrection.

      1. Moonrocks   3 years ago

        No, that's incitement to peaceful protest. Violent Insurrection is when you tweet something like "go home with peace and love".

    3. NoPeople-ing   3 years ago

      Picture with me what caused the committee for the first insurrection... A man with a pot belly, white as the underside of a fish, ratty hair and a hat with horns with paint all over him. Looking like a backwoods redneck or a child's failed art project. That is what they were scared of.
      This? There need to be officers arresting these morons. If they had shut the h*lol up and left it at a reasonable time frame instead of pushing for FULL TERM abortions and talking crap like 'if it can survive the original procedure, put it aside to die', there wouldn't be much of an issue. People are saying this is a health issue. No, it isn't. It's an excuse to do awful things to children. Just like a SCOTUS suggestion from Biden that has no problem letting child molesters and rapists walk around out here with us.
      They get more stupid every day. If a doctor said pregnancy was a health risk then is it any pregnancy ever or something specific about the individual pregnancy? If it's going to be a problem no matter what age or it's based on a physical reason that prevents a pregnancy ever, get some tubes tied. End of problem. If it was an accident, there's a time limit, just like with every other thing. Get it done within 8 weeks. If you're having sex, don't be stupid. Sex equals chance of pregnancy. Keep up with that stuff. Women are using abortion as a way to get out of responsibility for their actions. It isn't argument that leads into anything about 'well men don't blah-blah' because men don't want to go murder babies at nine months pregnant because THEY CAN NOT GET PREGNANT!!!!

  2. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    A reminder that abortion hasn't always been as neatly divided between left and right as it is today...

    As long as it wedged someone.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

      Yeah, what good is a political issue unless it irreversibly divides Americans? And inspires party donations.

    2. BigT   3 years ago

      Elizabeth Warren told reporters (while trampling some plants). "The United States Congress can keep Roe v. Wade the law of the land, they just need to do it."

      Liawatha showing her deep understanding of how our government works.... NOT

  3. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    ...Alito notes that "the Constitution makes no reference to abortion."

    It does reference arms but fat lot of good that does people in New Jerksey.

    1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

      Ah yes, The People's Republic of NJ.

      Here in the People's Republic, our People's Duma is considering retroactive abortion do-over (aka: RAD, for short) legislation. Basically, you can 'off your kid and start over' up to the age of 3. No questions asked.

      How many parents of teenagers would like the 'retroactive abortion do-over' option? 🙂

      (PS: the 'retroactive abortion legislation 'RAD' was just satire!)

      1. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

        ^ you joke but California has a bill in play that would essentially legalize murdering your newborn.

        1. MrBoz   3 years ago

          Their working towards letting you test drive them for three years. But if you keep them you have to send them to the neighborhood grooming center.

    2. mad.casual   3 years ago

      It references arms, but not the kind of arms we have today. Publicly funded abortion clinics for any abortive person, male, female, or other is in the emanations and penumbras.

      It really is astounding how the FF pulled such a cogent founding document out of all the nonsense and utter insanity stuffed into the emanations and penumbras attic.

    3. ElvisIsReal   3 years ago

      It does, though. Right there in the 10th Amendment:

      The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

    4. JFree   3 years ago

      Alito's opinion just confirms that conservatives don't care about individual rights but only traditional conservative rights

      1. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

        Nope. That’s total bullshit. You don’t get to murder children. As they have individual rights too.

      2. Red Rocks White Privilege   3 years ago

        At what point does a fetus become a child?

        1. JFree   3 years ago

          At what point do you support free medical care for pregnancy and childbirth?

          1. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

            Non responsive non sequitur. Stricken.

      3. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        And your opinion proves that liberals don't care about individual responsibility.

  4. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    Daily average NFT sales are down 92 percent from their September 2021 high...

    Still way up from where they were in the 90's.

    1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   3 years ago

      NFTs may be the dumbest swindle ever

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        Wanna buy some tulips?

        1. R Mac   3 years ago

          I’ll trade you my pet rock.

        2. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

          Tulips at least have a use in landscaping.

        3. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

          I'm heavily invested in Beanie Babies.

      2. JesseAz   3 years ago

        You too can win a hash tag that declares you the owner of a digital image anyone can download!

        1. Agammamon   3 years ago

          It's not even that. You're the owner of a hyperlink to a file stored on a server that is both identical and infinitely copyable *and* the file the hyperlink points to can be changed by anyone with access to the server the file is stored on.

      3. Overt   3 years ago

        The idea has merit, but only when used as a token for something like tangible property. The idea of "This is scarce so I'll buy it just for its scarcity" is the biggest con in the world.

        1. some guy   3 years ago

          Even then it only has merit if the local authority that claims jurisdiction over the property recognizes the NFT as a deed.

      4. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

        I hope a bunch of artists made off with vast riches and used that money on something worthwhile.

        1. Livefree ordie   3 years ago

          Weed and booze? Wimmyns?

  5. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    ...Donald Trump–backed candidate J.D. Vance has won the Ohio GOP Senate primary.

    I'm told he's toxic.

    1. HorseConch   3 years ago

      A goddamn authoritarian monster. I'm already readying my basement to resettle several refugee Ohioans.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        Hmm, does that include a basket with body lotion?

        1. ThomasD   3 years ago

          Don't forget the garden hose.

          1. Nardz   3 years ago

            How precious

      2. Seamus   3 years ago

        Huh? Vance's authority as a U.S. Senator wouldn't be limited to Ohio, but would extend to any place where laws enacted by the U.S. Senate and House of Reps are in effect. But maybe your basement is in Canada?

        1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          My basement is in Canada.

          1. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

            My house is in WA, but the basement is in Upper Volta. Something… something… dimensionally transcendental.

      3. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

        I’m ready to accept several cheerleaders from their universities. As long as I get to select which ones.

    2. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Do we need to fortify the elections to protect tim Ryan and institutional norms?

      1. HorseConch   3 years ago

        Without question. After all the times I died of covid, and the 3 fire extinguishings I sustained on January 6, I'm barely holding on by a thread.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

          Stop trying to identify as a Victim. That status is reserved for people who claim to have a uterus, feel oppressed by their genitalia, or are two shades darker than mocha.

          1. mad.casual   3 years ago

            That status is reserved for people who claim to have a uterus, feel oppressed by their genitalia, or are two shades darker than mocha.

            Iron Eyes Cody sheds single tear.

          2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            I've been oppressing my genitalia since I was a teen. Do I count?

  6. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    Vance's victory deals a body blow to a small but noticeable resurgence of anti-Trump—or post-Trump—sentiment in the GOP...

    Relax. It's Ohio.

    1. damikesc   3 years ago

      I've yet to notice this resurgence. Hoping is not reality.

      1. Cronut   3 years ago

        When you live on Twitter like ENB, you tend to get a really distorted sense of how regular people think, so things like Vance winning are a HUGE surprise.

        1. Overt   3 years ago

          Notice how the headline is "It's a FUCKING DISASTER of legal reasoning" and evidence is that two people disagree with the historical record.

          Please.

  7. But SkyNet is a Private Company   3 years ago

    I am unable to even at this point.

    Teen Reason fully on board with ends justifying means, while process, norms, and decorum were all that mattered from 2016-2020.

    1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

      It's Trump's fault, obviously.

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

      Why do you hate womyn?

  8. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    More Trump-backed candidate wins from Tuesday primaries.

    Or maybe not.

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      All 55 won.

      1. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

        Yep. Not a few, not most. ALL of them.

  9. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    The Department of Homeland Security is yet again extending the Real ID deadline for air travel.

    We're waiting to see if they can be fashioned into a mask. Or maybe a voter ID.

  10. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Chapelle attacked on stage by man with knife and gun.

    https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/suspect-dave-chappelle-on-stage-attack-arrested-charged-assault-deadly-weapon-hollywood-bowl#&_intcmp=hp1bt2,hp1bt

    1. HorseConch   3 years ago

      I'm guessing the same thing that inhabited the Waukesha red suv inhabited that knife. Definitely the knife's fault.

      1. Ersatz   3 years ago

        attempted suicide by security detail

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

      "Isaiah Lee, 23, was carrying a replica gun with a knife blade inside when he attacked Chappelle during the Hollywood Bowl, police say."

      What to bring when you are not sure if the invitation is for a knife fight or a gun fight.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        Leave Obama out of this.

      2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

        The best place to hide a knife is inside a fake gun..

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

          Do you work for the TSA?

        2. R Mac   3 years ago

          Damnit, this whole time I’ve been trying to hide my knife in my toothpaste.

    3. mad.casual   3 years ago

      How many boyfriends does Jada Pinkett Smith have?

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        At a time or overall?

        1. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

          I’ve heard she’s airtight.

    4. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      Even jester's privilege is out these days.

    5. EISTAU Gree-Vance   3 years ago

      Lol. Someone tell tony that a “violent bigot” finally attacked someone over Dave chappelle’s “anti trans” comedy!

      “People will die!” Haha. Not yet, tony. But you can keep hoping!

  11. But SkyNet is a Private Company   3 years ago

    "Some Republicans "want to take us back to a time before Roe v. Wade, back to a time before Obergefell v. Hodges, back to a time before Griswold v. Connecticut," suggested Vice President Kamala Harris said in a Tuesday speech."

    I assume they mean the awful white nationalist Neil Gorsuch, who definitely wants to take us back before the Obergfell opinion (checks notes) that he authored.

    1. SMP0328   3 years ago

      I think you mean Bostock.

      1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   3 years ago

        Details

        1. AugustWest   3 years ago

          Obergefell was penned in 2015 by Kennedy well before Gorsuch was even on the SCOTUS. Bostock was the case in which Gorsuch joined with the liberal wing to conclude that "sex" discrimination didn't mean only gender but also sexual orientation discrimination. It's a completely different analysis than Alito's unenumerated rights discourse, but is being cited by some as an indication Gorsuch isn't interested in reversing Obergefell and Alito lacks the votes to make Dobbs the precursor (he would like it to be) to dismantling all kinds of precedent that secures rights in conflict with the good book and not widely accepted hundreds of years ago.

    2. Spiritus Mundi   3 years ago

      This kind of rehtoric is not hyperbolic in anyway and gets a tacit wink and a nod from Reason. Calling out the Biden admin for creating the Ministry of Truth on the other hand....

      1. HorseConch   3 years ago

        It turns out that the Ministry of Truth is actually there to tell Spanish speakers that the border is closed. I'm sure they are ignoring reality just like all the MSM.

      2. Cronut   3 years ago

        When do put all the black people back in chains? I was assured this was going to happen. Is that before or after we round up all the handmaids and put them into sexual slavery?

        1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          You mean we're not allowed to do that already?
          Maybe I should stop.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            I didn't know you were a jeweler.

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              The sexual slavery bit. We don't have many blacks up here and the ones that are are usually lawyers and doctors.

              We do however have tons of uppity women who don't know that they should be barefoot in the kitchen bearing children, or whatever that stupid book warns about.

        2. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

          Just perform a Google search for ‘hot mulatto teens’ to see a preliminary selection of available talent.

      3. Overt   3 years ago

        "This kind of rehtoric is not hyperbolic in anyway and gets a tacit wink and a nod from Reason."

        Not just a Wink and a nod, but holding hands. That rhetoric isn't substantially different than "disaster of legal reasoning". The idea that ENB has anywhere near the qualifications necessary to question the legal reasoning of someone like Alito, let alone declare it a disaster is one of the biggest absurdities of 2022. (so far)

        1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

          ENB perhaps has a colicky baby and doesn't get enough sleep; that could explain some of the truly bizarre reasoning she employs....

          1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            She's had a colicky baby since her days as a hard-hitting Bustle reporter then.

            1. R Mac   3 years ago

              When did she start dating her husband?

              1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                When he needed a beard.

          2. Social Justice is neither   3 years ago

            And what excuse would she have for the years before the baby?

          3. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

            ‘ENB perhaps IS a colicky baby’

            FTFY

    3. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

      Harris never needs a morning after abortion pill. Listerine does the job.

      1. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

        Or an enema.

      2. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

        And sometimes she does need a morning after pill, taken simultaneously with listening, and an enema.

  12. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    Lab-grown "human milk" may be coming soon.

    Robotiddies. They're trying to get our unaborted children weaned on Skynet!

    1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

      It's okay skynet is a private company

    2. Anomalous   3 years ago

      I take my coffee black.

      1. Unable2Reason   3 years ago

        Is that like: "I take my coffee like I take my men...strong & black"?

      2. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

        I like my coffee like I like my chicks... Ground up and in the fridge

        1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

          Lol!

          Q: What's the difference between a gay guy and a fridge?

          A: The fridge doesn't fart when you pull your meat out!

        2. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

          Are you channeling Krusty?

    3. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

      This is why we need genetically engineered semi-human milk cows, to compete with the robots! An udderly delicious idea, MeThinks!

      Me, I LoOoOove MILK!!! As fresh as possible, straight-from-the-teat-raw is best…
      Also I like my cows that look like this... GMOoOoOoOoOo cows! (Scroll down a TINY bit when opening the link)
      … http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0310/S00003.htm …

      1. Unable2Reason   3 years ago

        Sort of like Hitcher's Guide To The Galaxy where the cows ask to be eaten, or, in this case milked.

        1. Red Rocks White Privilege   3 years ago

          SQRLSY prefers the flops.

          1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

            Red-Rocks-for-"Brains" prefers the flops also... Mad cow flops, topped with mercury! To make Red-Rocks-for-"Brains" even madder than a hatter!

  13. Social Justice is neither   3 years ago

    Poor proggy twat ENB is about to have her right to murder infringed and she can't even.

    1. Spiritus Mundi   3 years ago

      It makes it hard to rent out your vigina if you cant evict the squatters.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        Just ask the CDC. Nine months to flatten the curve.

        1. Yatusabes   3 years ago

          +1

        2. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

          Observing most of the people involved in the irrational freak-out about the Alito opinion, it looks like there needs to be a fitness regimen, a managed diet, as well as nine months to handle the 'curve.'

          1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

            Yeah, the only way most of those women might get pregnant, besides with the ol' turkey baster, requires a lot of beer. Thus, we could try Prohibition again, and make Roe moot.

    2. damikesc   3 years ago

      Thing is...where she lives, it won't be. At all.

  14. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    This 'unprecedented crisis for democracy' is neither unprecedented nor a crisis for democracy...

    Of course libertarians want us to drop our guard.

  15. JesseAz   3 years ago

    The left continues to prove their own racism.

    “I do wonder how these white supremacist lawmakers would feel if their little white daughters were raped and impregnated by black men,” she posted Monday.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/actress-fantasizes-about-little-white-daughters-being-raped-by-black-men-in-now-removed-tweet-barrage

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      Nobody knows more about everything than actors.

    2. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

      Ah, "black people." The Left loves them - they can be a political prop or a boogeyman, whatever the situation requires.

      What a sick fuck.

    3. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

      Somebody has a recurring rape fantasy.

      1. HorseConch   3 years ago

        I have no idea who the fuck Amanda Duarte is, but most of the far left feel the way she does. It's great to watch the racists out themselves by accusing normal people of being racist.

        1. Ronbback   3 years ago

          George Takei 's response is equally silly, first they came after blacks now women and lgbqt next. Haven't seen anyone go after blacks and not allowing child grooming is not anti lgb.. whatever, these people are stupid

          1. Nardz   3 years ago

            They are brainwashed fanatic drones who are a clear and present danger

        2. Muzzled Woodchipper   3 years ago

          It doesn’t matter. The left can get away with any amount of racism they want. They could start calling people like Clarence Thomas a House Nigger, and it simply won’t matter.

          1. HorseConch   3 years ago

            There was an article the other day explaining how Tim Scott became an oppressor. You can't make this shit up. The left really has no morals.

            https://thegrio.com/2022/04/21/are-you-an-oppressor-a-quiz/

        3. D-Pizzle   3 years ago

          Most people may not know this, but she happens to be quite famous.

          1. BigT   3 years ago

            Oxymoron on display

            1. R Mac   3 years ago

              That’s the joke.

    4. Ignore me!   3 years ago

      She's a special lady. Check out her tweets on white children.

    5. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      She's getting a bit infected with the weird fixations online these days. I don't get what's up with all this weird race-play shit going on these days.

      1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

        I sometimes feel like maybe I'm the asshole by not really having any broad, open feelings about an entire race of people. I may have some kneejerk stuff, but it doesn't really factor into my life that much best I can tell.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          Being race blind is racist.

  16. Idaho Bob   3 years ago

    Same ol' Reason dribble...but with boobs and a megaphone.

    1. Anomalous   3 years ago

      Two megaphones.

    2. Quicktown Brix   3 years ago

      I'm not a biologist, but I'm pretty sure that's a WOMAN!

  17. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    Namely, the right to terminate a pregnancy may be justly seen as a subset of the right to bodily integrity.

    WHAT ILLEGAL SUBSTANCE ARE YOU SMOKING?

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      … bodily integrity.

      Mask and vaccine mandates, anyone?

      1. Longtobefree   3 years ago

        That's different!!!

        (It only kills some, not all)

      2. Cronut   3 years ago

        Your abortion protects me, my abortion protects you.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

          Also, my upcoming vacation and plan to eventually ditch my lame boyfriend.

      3. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

        "Mask and vaccine mandates, anyone?"

        Case A: Wear a mask (99.999999% of the time, mandated NOT on YOUR property) when you step on someone else's property.

        Case B: Experience a quick needle-stick, or get fired from your job, and go find another job. Maybe be unemployed for a tad.

        Case C: Lying Lothario knocked you up, after SWEARING up and down that you were His One And Only for LIFE! Now you find out that Lothario has 7 other pregnant lied-to babes! And you can no long opt OUT of Lothario's having won the genetic (harem) lottery! Here we go; we are on the way to evolving humans into elephant seals, where the biggest lying genetic-lottery-winner gets the loot, and meek and mild, honest could-have-been-fathers' interests are shoved aside!

        Which fucked-up case sounds more fucked up to you?

        1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          The one that's contrived... oh wait, they all are.

          1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

            Lying Lothario is FAR less mythical than unicorns or data-driven, benevolent, non-uber-tribalistic Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrers!

            (In terms of ugliness, though, Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrers do take the 1st-place honors.)

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              Nobody's more tribal than Sqrlsy.

        2. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

          Do you think those are actual representations of the facts at hand?

          1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

            Lying Lothario is VERY real, yes! It IS a root cause of a LOT of abortions today! Outlawing abortions IS "pro-Lying-Lothario", and, genetically, sociobiologically, and culturally, empowering Lying Lothario to increase his winnings in the genetic (and cultural) lotteries, is NOT a good idea, at ALL! (I have known some Lying Lotharios.)

          2. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

            Young scum-buckets also start dating earlier, and getting teen girls pregnant! The young ladies aren't yet good at judging character, and the scum have "bad boy allure". This is another spin on why we need legal abortion... To stop the scum from taking over! (With the consent of the pregnant ladies, of course, always.)

            Here is a data point to consider:

            https://www.psypost.org/2022/04/secondary-psychopathy-in-high-school-boys-positively-predicts-future-dating-involvement-study-finds-62988 Secondary psychopathy in high school boys positively predicts future dating involvement, study finds

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              Flawed study. You're a psychopath and yet women wouldn't go near you.

              1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                TOTAL failure of Your Perfect mind-reading tinfoil hate-hat, Mammary-Fuhrer!

    2. Overt   3 years ago

      "Namely, the right to terminate a pregnancy may be justly seen as a subset of the right to bodily integrity."

      Sounds great when talking about terminating a pregnancy. Now explain how the right of bodily integrity also includes the right to invade the bodily integrity of an unborn child.

      I'm 100% behind the idea that a woman's right to "bodily integrity" means she can terminate a pregnancy. Unfortunately, her right to bodily integrity does not give her also the right to kill a baby, and since terminating a pregnancy today necessarily means killing the baby, the baby's right to bodily integrity also comes to play. Maybe what we should be doing is figuring out how to solve for that.

      1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

        It's a point so ground into the dirt that it feels almost pointless to mention it, but I hate that this argument really doesn't ever extend to anything else. Abortion is such a weird and complicated grey-zone, and gets this full throated autonomy argument. Yet the more clear delineations are often regulated quite heavily.

      2. Square = Circle   3 years ago

        the baby's right to bodily integrity also comes to play

        The baby doesn't have bodily integrity until it's born. Definitionally.

        1. Overt   3 years ago

          The baby of the pair (i.e. the unborn infant, not the mother) does indeed have bodily integrity, and if the mother has a right to bodily integrity, so does the child.

        2. Social Justice is neither   3 years ago

          Says the murderous sociopath.

        3. BigT   3 years ago

          The baby doesn't have bodily integrity until it's born. Definitionally

          in·teg·ri·ty (in-teg'ri-tē)
          Soundness or completeness of structure; a sound or unimpaired condition.

          Do you think the fetus is merely a bunch of unattached parts floating around in the amniotic fluid that suddenly come together at birth?

        4. Alec Leamas   3 years ago

          If the baby is part of the woman's body until birth, then a right to abortion would be a right to bodily disintegration, not bodily integrity because you're dividing the woman's body into two or more parts and the remaining woman is something less than she was immediately before the procedure. It's therefore the opposite of ENB's proposed long-standing right to "bodily integrity" that somehow Harry Blackmun didn't know about in 1973.

  18. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    Congress must pass legislation that codifies Roe v. Wade as the law of the land in this country NOW.

    We haven't forgotten your toxic Bernie Bros, Senator. This can't make up for that.

    Also, wake me when there's a socialist not for eugenics.

    1. damikesc   3 years ago

      Democrats did have, what, 50 years to do it?

      1. BigT   3 years ago

        Such a law would run afoul of that Old Parchment thing, just as Roe vs Wade is about to.

      2. Alec Leamas   3 years ago

        Democrats had unified government a few times during the past 50 years and didn't make the effort (in fairness, they had to pretend to be moderate on the issue via "safe, legal, and rare" into the early 2000s). Cynically, they've relied upon a joint disinformation campaign with the Press to get lots of the electorate to believe that Roe is zero sum - viz, if it's overruled, abortion immediately becomes illegal nationwide. This has helped them gin up electoral turnout in the past.

        Sorry women, Democrats were just playing you for votes "against your economic best interests."

  19. But SkyNet is a Private Company   3 years ago

    "Americans are almost evenly divided on their personal views of abortion, according to years of Gallup polling, but only 19 percent think abortion should be illegal under all circumstances," notes Bret Stephens in The New York Times. "It shouldn't be hard to imagine how Americans will react to the court conspicuously providing aid and comfort to the 19 percent."

    I was unaware that the draft decision made abortion illegal in all circumstances. Good thing we have super intelligent honest brokers like MrStephens and the NYT to explain these things.

    anyone know where I can get some of those Handmaid Tale getups? I'd like to start impregnating some of the neighborhood girls

    1. Cronut   3 years ago

      Do you get to pick your own handmaids or are they issued? I already see handmaids being inequitably distributed, with rich, white men getting all the good ones and the poors getting stuck with the blue-haired fatties.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        Join the metaverse.

      2. DesigNate   3 years ago

        The Elite get to pick and choose. The rest of us get the leftovers.

    2. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      I really do wonder if they state it incorrectly on purpose or if they're just in the thralls of a panic, or if they just don't know.
      A lot of people don't know. It's like how when folks are interviewed and ask if they "approve of Roe vs. Wade" many folks do. But when they're asked their preferred abortion regime, it's quite a bit more restrictive than Roe and Casey allow.

      This is not a super well understood issue.

      1. BillyG   3 years ago

        It's on purpose by whoever originates the narrative. The propagandists go along with the narrative.

        1. BigT   3 years ago

          Precisely. It's the Donkeys most frequent tactic - change the language. "Don't say gay law" for example. Diversity, 'equity,' and inclusion, no longer Equality. They have a huge lead on the Heffalumps at this game.

  20. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Democrats still don't understand the constitution.


    Ben Rhodes
    @brhodes
    George W. Bush and Donald Trump both lost the popular vote and appointed five of these judges who will shape American life (and, on climate, life on Earth) for decades. Some democracy.

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      Morons for the popular vote.

    2. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      Robert's was appointed in 2005 and Alito in 2006. Bush won the 2004 election with 50.7% of the popular vote. It is not even an honest assertion on it's own terms.

    3. Muzzled Woodchipper   3 years ago

      Ah, yes.

      The popular vote that doesn’t exist except as a tool by the media to make people believe something that isn’t true. That should have a name. Something like misinformation. Maybe disinformation. Malinformation?

      It’s like they’re trying to convince me Santa Clause exists because NOAA has a Santa tracker on Xmas Eve.

      1. HorseConch   3 years ago

        Like the popular vote wouldn't change if there 40% of the electoral votes weren't guaranteed to go Democrat. If a Republican spent time campaigning in OR, WA, IL, NY, and CA, popular vote totals would surge their way.

    4. Overt   3 years ago

      Man, reading that shit from Rhodes makes me feel really, really shitty.

      It makes me feel really shitty because deep in my heart, I chuckle every day thinking that Obama had EIGHT fucking years to replace his liberal justices, and RGB decided to wait for Hillary. It's the sort of guilty little pleasure that makes life worth living.

      1. JasonAZ   3 years ago

        +1

  21. JesseAz   3 years ago

    MIT study shows a significant jump in heart problems following the vaccine roll out.

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/mit-study-finds-covid-vaccines-significantly-associated-jump-emergency

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      Safe and 90% effective, no downsides.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        Mostly peaceful.

        1. HorseConch   3 years ago

          Joe Friday reminded us countless times that they are absolutely 100% safe and like 300% effective. You better pull this link to misinformation before you kill us all.

    2. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

      Mostly safe vaccine

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        We obviously need a new vaccine against heart problems.

        1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

          A treadmill? 🙂

    3. Minadin   3 years ago

      Could be the vaccine, could be that so many people spent 2 years sitting on their asses, ordering takeout, and avoiding doctors / hospitals. Could be a combination.

      1. ElvisIsReal   3 years ago

        Well, do we see a correlating increase in the unvaxxed?

      2. JesseAz   3 years ago

        The DMED database showed the same issue. They were required to maintain physical maintenance routines from being in the armed forces.

    4. ElvisIsReal   3 years ago

      Is this still disinformation or is it now malinformation?

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        Damn it! What information color code are we at today?

  22. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

    So if the quickening standard allows for abortion before the 16th week, then restrictions on abortion after the 16th week are acceptable?

    Also if only 19% favor a near complete ban on abortion and the Court giving them what they want is dubious on that basis, then that a similar percentage of the population favoring nearly no restrictions on abortion should not be given what they want by the Court either, correct?

    This is something ENB constantly does, refusing to acknowledge that the current SCOTUS abortion regime is both radical and unpopular while arguing as if the only alternative regine is equally radical and unpopular.

    1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

      If abortion after 16 weeks is prohibited under Roe, then the Mississippi law at issue moved that date by exactly 1 week.

      But we all know that ENB is not being honest on this issue. It's not a "up to and maybe after birth" -vs- "life begins at conception" question. There's infinitely many other options. And most people agree that abortion in some form should be allowed, but she doesn't bother asking what the outer limits of that are. It's rarely beyond the first trimester.

    2. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Has Enb even thought through her claims of bodily autonomy giving people the right to harm others? The same theory can apply to an environmentalist claiming they have a right over their bodies to not breathe in pollution in order to shut down various industrial plants. Is that truly the legal reasoning reason wants to impart?

      For the vast majority of pregnancy cases the person took a positive action that resulted in pregnancy. But because they have bodily autonomy they can choose to kill someone who has a different DNA than them?

      This reasoning can be extended to full authoritarian control by saying any harm to an individual can cause a restriction on another. This can be applied to vaccine and mask mandates as well. This is a terrible legal theory.

    3. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      The quickening standard is very weird too. I don't know why, as technology and our information increases, that we feel the need to rely on medieval understanding of things. It's a bizarre thing in the abortion debate where those who regularly claim to be the party of science revert to tea leaves and medieval quackery.

    4. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

      It's not like "The Quickening" was also a scientifically verifiable standard that we have to maintain. It's based on older concepts about when the soul enters the body. And beyond that, medically assisted abortions just didn't exist, in large part. They were chemically induced, things women were drinking. There's definitely more of a case for early-term chemically induced abortions than there are for going up in there and chopping up the fetus.

      1. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

        Alito brings up the quickening standard to show that there were historical restrictions on abortion. The basic problem with unenumerated rights is proving that they are, in fact, rights which are worthy of protection beyond one.persin's mere assertion. ENB jumps to point out that quickening as a standard allows abortions early on while ignoring that it does not support the current SCOTUS regime as defined by Roe and Casey of very few restrictions up until and perhaps past birth.

    5. Social Justice is neither   3 years ago

      Look, the quickening standard allows abortion for hundreds of years as long as you're sure to remove the head from the body, preferably with a sword.

      1. ElvisIsReal   3 years ago

        THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE

  23. JesseAz   3 years ago

    The DoJ assault against project Veritas continues, showing a massive overreach of actions against a journalist company.

    https://justthenews.com/accountability/media/following-roe-v-wade-leak-doj-accused-wielding-double-standard-against

    1. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      Not relevant to a publication of libertarian opinion. Obviously.

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        They’re icky.

      2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        You don't understand, Mickey, they're on the wrong side so it's okay.

  24. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Marc Elias files lawsuit in GA alleging black and brown voters don't know how to sign their name.

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/left-wing-organizations-find-new-form-racism-georgia-elections-using-ink

    1. D-Pizzle   3 years ago

      To nutshell their argument: Black and brown people are incapable of making a squiggly line on paper with a pen. Totally not racist!

    2. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      First some weird racist rape fantasies and now this. What's going on today?

  25. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

    Official reason scordboard:
    Articles about a fist draft leaked Supreme Court opinion on abortion :7
    Arrocles about the oden administration literally implimenting ministry of truth:2.5
    Sullum mentioned it passingly yesterday

    1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

      Fucking Oden administration!

      1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   3 years ago

        Loki 2024!

        1. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

          Self-aware AI is a better candidate, and gets the irrational fear reaction from left/right.

      2. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

        My autocompleate only tells me I talk about Norse mythology way too much

        1. mad.casual   3 years ago

          Arrocles sounds Greco-Roman.

      3. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

        Had Japanese food lately, eh?

    2. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      I think it's noteworthy that Reason Editors spewed more outrage in 24 hours over the possibility that abortion might become a state issue than they were able to muster in a whole week over the federal government illegally creating an agency to regulate speech.

  26. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

    "Many NFT owners are finding their investments are worth significantly less than when they bought them."

    P.T. Barnum approves.

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      I put all my money into tulip bulbs.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        Hey, you should talk with Skynet up-thread.

  27. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Democrat senators are pressuring Facebook to censor Spanish language campaign ads. Why does this sound familiar? This is one of the claims Mayorkas made on the need for the ministry of truth.

    https://thefederalist.com/2022/05/04/democrats-are-pressuring-youtube-to-censor-spanish-language-disinformation-ahead-of-midterms/

    1. HorseConch   3 years ago

      Their color war didn't work to cause permanent democratic rule, so now they need to give the right kind of information to their diverse base. You don't want those poor hispanics accidentally voting for Hitler.

  28. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   3 years ago

    "If the Court does overturn Roe, it will fall on our nation's elected officials at all levels of government to protect a woman's right to choose," President Joe Biden said in a Tuesday statement.

    As a transgender (nonbinary they / them) person, it's a little upsetting to see Biden use the outdated expression "a woman's right to choose" to describe access to abortion care. He should have gone with the more trans-inclusive and scientifically accurate "a uterus owner's right to choose."

    #TransMenAreMen
    #NonbinaryPeopleAreNonbinary

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      Unwilling birthing person.

      1. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   3 years ago

        I did see a state-level Democrat use the expression "birthing bodies" which is also acceptable.

        1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

          "Birthing bodies" is the only acceptable term. "Birthing person" is exclusionary toward those of use who identify as Lygers.

        2. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

          I believe it's bodies capable of abortion

          1. HorseConch   3 years ago

            Does the ladydick get in the way of the doc chopping up the clump of cells?

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              Ladydick wouldn't be an issue if evil Rethuglikkkans would just let us castrate children.

          2. But SkyNet is a Private Company   3 years ago

            chicken dinner

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

      Since a uterus, like all biology, is a social construct, I assume your reference to "owners" includes anyone who feels uteri-burdened.

      1. Spiritus Mundi   3 years ago

        "Owners" is a problematic microaggression toward POCs.

        1. yet another dave   3 years ago

          "Uterus transportation device?"

      2. mad.casual   3 years ago

        Rental is the least burdensome option. Depreciation's a bitch.

    3. Nardz   3 years ago

      What if I don't have a uterus, but I feel like I'm supposed to have a uterus?

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        Vote progressive?

      2. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

        Become an adjunct professor teaching a critical theory based class centering around your 'fight' to overcome the many obstacles to be recognized? Stunning and brave.

  29. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Headline: Alito's Draft Opinion That Would Overturn Roe Is a Disaster of Legal Reasoning

    Writeup: no real examples aside from one mention of common law and the quickening.

    What astute legal reasoning by ENB.

    1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   3 years ago

      one mention of common law and the quickening

      There can be only one.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        But those who went through the quickening in the highlander can't have kids... so confused.

      2. Nardz   3 years ago

        By the way, if anyone wants to know what it would look like to watch Neo from the Matrix fighting (or, you know, playing basketball), check out Ja Morant of the Memphis Grizzlies.

        1. Nardz   3 years ago

          Highlights from last night's game is a good start

          1. R Mac   3 years ago

            Been watching him since he was Murray State. Freak of fucking nature.

            1. R Mac   3 years ago

              At Murray State.

    2. Idaho Bob   3 years ago

      Yeah, I caught that as well. No evidence of Disaster of legal reasoning. Jesus.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        Reasoning is sexist, you brute!

    3. Cronut   3 years ago

      The disaster was that there was legal reasoning behind the opinion. Abortion, like all womens issues, is supposed to be decided by FEELINGS.

      1. Alec Leamas   3 years ago

        I think it's more accurate to say that womyn's issues and left wing social policy are deemed to be a class marker, while not adhering to these views or worse being vociferously opposed to them is a mark of low class. So ENB isn't really writing "this is a disaster of legal reasoning (due to something legal-ish I've just heard about for the first time three days ago)" so much as "Alito and the Court's crew of mackerel-snappers are elevating low status views that should be dismissed out of hand." She's bright enough - having made it through both a post-secondary theater program and a certificate program in nutrition - to know that you have to disguise the class injury in terms of a nonsense about the majority Justices' intellectual deficiencies.

    4. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

      I had no idea that Ditzbrain Brown was such a legal luminary...

    5. R Mac   3 years ago

      It’s the Roundup, just some light reading why we drink our morning coffee, not an actual article.

      —Dee

      1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        Where's that retard hiding lately anyway?

        1. R Mac   3 years ago

          Finally flew off?

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Jealous of sarc and Jeff's blossoming relationship.

  30. ThomasD   3 years ago

    ENB may not be a biologist, but she plays a learned jurist on the interwebz.

    This is comedy gold.

    1. ThomasD   3 years ago

      Maybe she should cross post this on the VC page.

    2. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   3 years ago

      This is comedy gold.

      Greenwald has ENB pegged. Alito is explicitly guiding the court back towards actual democracy, and nobody on the inside wants that to happen.

      The Irrational, Misguided Discourse Surrounding Supreme Court Controversies Such as Roe v. Wade

      1. ThomasD   3 years ago

        Yep. Just like the other day where some of the posters here were trying to argue that this decision was statist.

        Except I really do not thin them irrational, or even illogical. Mostly they are just being intellectually dishonest.

        They think themselves clever.

      2. Ignore me!   3 years ago

        Progressives are deeply freaked out by most people in this country. They assume most of us are basically like the degenerates in the Purge movies, only stupider and more violent. Of course actual democracy terrifies them.

        1. HorseConch   3 years ago

          From my experience, more of them fit the mold of stupider than non-proggies.

      3. KAR-en   3 years ago

        You people have proven time and time again you can’t be trusted to vote.

        1. Ignore me!   3 years ago

          Hey, have you killed any rednecks lately?

          1. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

            Too chickenshit.

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              Too busy getting his ass banned for doxxing widows.

          2. KAR-en   3 years ago

            My name was a joke. I’m against violence except in self defense.

            1. R Mac   3 years ago

              Everything about you is a joke.

        2. ThomasD   3 years ago

          "...you can’t be trusted to vote."

          Look, let you can your control freak flag fly all you want, just don't pretend you have any say in the matter.

        3. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   3 years ago

          You people have proven time and time again you can’t be trusted to vote.

          Repurposing the vile rhetoric of an Reconstruction era Democrat. Keep it up, kid. I couldn't ever embarrass you more than you embarrass yourself...

          1. KAR-en   3 years ago

            Look what you fascists voting has turned Utah into.

            I’m not embarrassed at all if the fascists on here don’t like me.

            1. Vampire Easter Bunnies in Space   3 years ago

              You appear to do just fine with Tony, Jeffy, Shitlunches etc..

      4. D-Pizzle   3 years ago

        Greenwald is turning.

        1. ThomasD   3 years ago

          The Gleens is, and always has been an opportunist.

          1. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

            He is obviously a real journalist of the highest integrity. For the Snowden work alone he deserves a lifetime recognition as one of the all time greats.

        2. Moonrocks   3 years ago

          Is he? My impression is that he's pretty much the meme Elon Musk posted some days ago.

  31. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    Ok. So we've got these angry chicks with such touchable titties saying "keep your hands off my body," but they're not referring to the hands attached to the guy who will be putting his hands on those titties while he pokes her with his penis. No, they mean the politician who aims to criminalize ending the pregnancy resulting from the guy with his hands on those touchable titties.

    Seems like "Hands off" is a mixed message.

    Or is it just me.

    1. Anomalous   3 years ago

      It sure looks like melons are in season.

    2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      I get the feeling you like big boobs.

      1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        A handful, handful and a mouthful, two handfuls, two handfuls and a mouthful...

        I like them all.

        1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

          I’m not muted anymore?

          1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

            What?

            1. R Mac   3 years ago

              Do you even have a list anymore!?

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                Nope. But you're on it.

                1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                  I'm at the top, right? Not Jesse who secretly says nice things about you behind your back.

                  1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                    I don't rank shit. It all smells bad.

                  2. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   3 years ago

                    I swear that I once saw ML praise him for honest discourse, whereas I can't even respond to him directly because I currently have him muted.

                    Again, there can be only one.

                    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                      Chunk's full of lies. He often quotes you fondly on other forums. Don't believe him.

                    2. R Mac   3 years ago

                      I overheard both of you talking about what a great husband he was.

            2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

              LOL

          2. JesseAz   3 years ago

            He craves attention.

      2. ThomasD   3 years ago

        Remember kids - always hold the camera at chest height.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

          With a wide angle lens.

        2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

          Hey! My eyes are up here!

          1. HorseConch   3 years ago

            If ENB picked out the picture, she did something right on this writeup.

  32. Longtobefree   3 years ago

    "If it gets the answers wrong; no amount of officialdom and ritual will save it. If it gets the answers right, none is necessary."

    Well, they definitely are/were wrong.
    But was it then, or now?

    1. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      The process is set up as it is, so the justices can have a reasoned discussion to come to a decision. You can argue whether the way they have it set up accomplishes that goal. It is arguing that a member of Congress should be able to unilaterally discard the rules of parliamentary process because they think that Congress is coming to the wrong conclusion.

      It is an argument in a similar vein to that which said Pence had the authority to not accept the election results. What matters the rituals if you think the substance is wrong?

  33. Longtobefree   3 years ago

    I wonder if ENB even cares that one of the 63 million babies killed could have grown up to be the first sex worker elected president?

    1. Idaho Bob   3 years ago

      Awesome.

    2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

      Freakonomics makes an argument (that I found to be persuasive) that a good number of those "babies killed" would have become criminals due to being raised by parents who didn't want them.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

        Thus we should extend abortion rights to at least the 33rd trimester to weed out even more unwanted future criminals.

        1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

          I figured give them a trial period between trimesters 4 and 33. Then make a decision as to abort or not.

          1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

            So, something 'RAD'? [Retroactive Abortion Do-over]

            I see you've had a teenager as well, sarcasmic? 🙂

            1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              Almost. She's 12.

              1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

                You have my sympathies. Your fun is just beginning. Best of luck.

      2. JesseAz   3 years ago

        And The Bell Curve?

        1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

          You go fishing for red herrings. In the mean time I hope some adults want to have a conversation.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            You are using a correlation study as defense of your apriori belief system. But seemingly are dismissing a different correlation study that goes against your apriori belief.

            They have a term for this. This isn't the first time you brought up the well used defense of abortion as a means to mitigate crime from that book. There have been many counters to it since it was published 20 years ago that you seemingly have no interest in.

            You claim you are consistent, but this shows you are not.

            1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              I thought the conversation was about abortion, Freakonomics and boobs.

              You're making it about me as a person. Sorry, not interested.

              But if you want to talk about topics instead of people, go for it.

              1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                I'm making it about your terrible argument of justifying beliefs based on an old study that has been nearly as racist as the bell curve which you seemingly protest against. It is ironic how inconsistent you are while claiming principles.

                That study has been stated to be racist as it implies killing black children through abortion reduces crime. The same racist style arguments used against The Bell Curve.

                Yet you see no problem repeating the first but feel the need to push away the latter.

                It is amusing.

                But beyond that, correlation studies are generally terrible. There was a reduction in crime from the 60s to the 80s also based on the growth of police forces and crime enforcement, especially in big cities. Yet freakonomics chose their preferred correlation term to make the primary cause.

                Freakonomics is a very over hyped book. I'm not shocked you reference it.

                1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                  You could have said "I believe Freakonomics is wrong, and this is why."

                  Instead you launched into a tirade about me as a person.

                2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                  I may have been interested in what you had to say. But I'm not going to ask for clarification on anything. Why bother? So you can continue to tell me what I think, believe, feel, do and why? Sure I have things to learn from you, everyone knows more about something than I do, but it's not worth the insults. Fuck that, and fuck you. Grow up.

                  1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                    You just got your ass handed to you for specious reasoning, but your response is to start swearing and then tell him to grow up?

                    You're the gift that keeps on giving.

                    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                      Lol.

                      This happens a lot.

                      Basically he can't refute anything I said so he lashes out then pretends he is curious for me to expand the argument. If he does, I willingly do then he claims it is incoherent.

                      An amusing cycle.

                      And freakonimics is one of those books dumb people were told to read to feel smart.

                    2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      Let's say my reasoning was wrong. A normal person would say "Hey, your reasoning is wrong. This is why." In response I might say something. A conversation might happen.

                      You're not normal people.

                    3. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      I have no incentive to engage in an honest conversation with people who are going to call me names.

                      With that said, your insistence upon calling me names says you don't want an honest conversation.

                      Then you object to me questioning your maturity.

                      Shoor dood. Whatevz.

                    4. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                      "A normal person would say "Hey, your reasoning is wrong. This is why." In response I might say something. A conversation might happen."

                      Not after 50, 100, 200 times. Your penchant for trolling and shitposting over the last three years long since burned out any tolerance from most of us.

                      If you were the least bit introspective you'd ask yourself why so many people here dislike you, and whether you deserve it or if everyone else is wrong.

                  2. R Mac   3 years ago

                    “everyone knows more about something than I do”

                    Like the wide variety of sandwiches.

          2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

            Yeah, let’s talk about boobs.

      3. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

        Conviction for precrime and the sentence is the death penalty. Amazing argument.

      4. Overt   3 years ago

        https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB113314261192407815

        It is bunk. The idea that "Unwanted" babies being murdered in the womb somehow outweighed the millions of unwanted babies who have been brought to term is silly nonsense. But he sure got some fun talk show gigs.

    3. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Is it ironic that B v E overturned please v ferguson?

    4. bobby oshea   3 years ago

      Would it be considered a conflict of interest if they continued their sex work while President?

      1. Anomalous   3 years ago

        Politics is the continuation of prostitution by other means.

        1. Longtobefree   3 years ago

          Sell your body, sell your vote.
          Two great business models; "you sell it, you still got it"

    5. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

      So are you forgetting about kamala?

  34. Sevo   3 years ago

    "...Whoopi Goldberg suggested on The View that the Supreme Court "will go after gay marriage and maybe Brown v. Board of Education" next..."

    Certainly my choice for authoritative and accurate predictions!

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

      What about the Joooz?

  35. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

    Shouldn't we want legislation on abortion to be done at the lowest possible level (state or municipal), to best reflect the views of the people? Just from a 'take power and control away from Washington DC' perspective, moving the entire abortion question to the people themselves seems like a much more stability enhancing way forward.

    The protestors can now petition 50 state legislatures.

    1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

      aye

    2. Lord of Strazele   3 years ago

      *Lowest level possible

      That would be the individual level.

      1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

        Ultimately, it always comes down to the individual, LoS.

        I think a woman choosing abortion has to be in a terrible circumstance, generally speaking. I don't believe that abortion is being casually used as a means of birth control, generally speaking. Are there extreme instances of serial abortions....yes, but they are a truly rare exception. I don't pretend to comprehend the emotions a woman who chooses abortion experiences.

        I do know that diffusing abortion legislation downward to the states is the better way to go, long term. We the People can address the question of abortion, acting through our state legislatures.

        Sullum posits that ditching Roe and Casey will result in little change, overall. I tend to think he is right, for once.

        1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

          I have a psycho cousin that got off birth control, then got pregnant to brag about having an abortion. There are psycho sub humans out there

      2. R Mac   3 years ago

        Do you have any suggestions on how you would get the opinion from the individual babies if they want to be aborted?

      3. mad.casual   3 years ago

        ROFLMAO! I bet you do pass laws in your own (Mom's) house.

    3. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      Yes, though I support continuing to limit it further on moral grounds. I believe I would reject a national ban on prudence grounds.

    4. Overt   3 years ago

      "Shouldn't we want legislation on abortion to be done at the lowest possible level (state or municipal), to best reflect the views of the people?"

      This was Harry Browne's position when he was running for president as a libertarian.

      It is hilarious how libertarians were themselves captured by the Kulture Warz.

      1. Overt   3 years ago

        https://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Harry_Browne_Abortion.htm

      2. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

        What was old has become new again. LOL.

        You mean Reason isn't a libertarian publication? 🙂

    5. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      Shouldn't we want legislation on abortion to be done at the lowest possible level (state or municipal), to best reflect the views of the people?

      Libertarians might, but we're talking about Reason.

  36. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   3 years ago

    Is it just my imagination or has Reason's leading economics expert Mr. Buttplug not commented much lately? With the Biden economy doing so well he's missing out on opportunities to gloat about rig count and the Warren Buffett Net Worth Index.

    #DefendBidenAtAllCosts

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      Shrike's mostly sockpuppeting right now under other names, though less prolifically than usual.
      He and Jeffy seem to post in alternate waves. When one is spamming heavily here the other isn't.

      I think that they're both different people, and they probably work for different outfits, so I don't know why that is.

    2. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

      I think Mr. Buttplug might be spending too much time at Wingnut.com, OBL.

      #Yo,ThisInflationThingIsRealCuzMyMatzosCostMore

  37. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

    Currently, at Teen Reason:

    Alito's Draft Opinion That Would Overturn Roe Is a Disaster of Legal Reasoning

    Meanwhile, over to the law professors at Reason's Volokh:

    I've Finished Reading The Apparent Dobbs Draft Opinion
    After my spate of blog posts from Monday evening (1, 2, 3, 4), I took the time to read the apparent Dobbs draft opinion. It is a tour de force. Justice Alito meticulously dissects, and forcefully responds to, every conceivable position in favor of retaining Roe and Casey. I could teach an entire law school seminar class on this opinion. It touches on nearly every facet of constitutional law. Moreover, the opinion carefully addresses the concerns of other members of the majority. Alito cites Justice Gorsuch's book. Alito discusses safe harbor laws, which seemed important to Justice Barrett. Alito repeatedly cites Justice Kavanaugh's Ramos concurrence, and calls on returning the issue to the democratic process. This is an opinion designed to hold five, as the saying goes.

    https://reason.com/volokh/2022/05/03/ive-finished-reading-the-apparent-dobbs-draft-opinion/

    1. R Mac   3 years ago

      Lol.

      1. HorseConch   3 years ago

        Did he vouch for some sex workers in the article?

    2. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

      The progressives commenting at VC, I will say, dedicate most of their time mocking Prof Blackman for the school he teaches at, and to which he went, rather than debating his analyses. So, they are much like any left-leaning sort, risible, dishonest, and worthy of little more than dismissal until they address the argument in concrete terms. Much like most of the left-leaning types posting here, for that matter.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        VC picked up a lot of liberals at its stop at WaPo.

  38. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    It's an uncomfortable truth that some people just aren't cut out to be parents. It's a job that they don't want that they're going to fuck up. Sure everyone is an individual, and people raised in such an environment can over come and achieve. But that's not the norm.

    So what do you do as a society? Allowing abortion lets these losers engage in sex without consequence to the rest of us. But if abortion is murder, then what do you do? Adopt? Biologically the mother will not want to give up the kid that she doesn't want, and now we're in a new mess.

    No easy solution.

    1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

      Mississippi's law gives you 15 weeks to make that decision.

      1. mad.casual   3 years ago

        And you generally get ~12-14 yrs. + 15 weeks to make the decision ahead of time.

    2. JesseAz   3 years ago

      2 million families are waiting to adopt a child.

      https://www.lifenews.com/2012/05/17/why-do-more-people-choose-abortion-over-adoption/

      1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        2 million families are waiting to adopt a child the child they want.

        ftfy

        Not everyone is Angelina Jolie.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          You didnt fix shit. You attempted to dismiss the information without any evidence. You created a bald assertion.

          1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

            Then you explain why the waiting list is so long. Summarize and enlighten. You're presenting the argument.

            1. JesseAz   3 years ago

              Because many families want to adopt and the process is long. It is im the article.

            2. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

              ^government

          2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

            Based upon my limited anecdotal knowledge on the subject, most potential adoptive parents want young white babies without Downs, Fetal alcohol syndrome, or some other challenge.

            I could be wrong. Happens a lot.

            1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

              Yes, and they ALSO do NOT want an older child who has already become mind-fucked by having been abused! And SOME of them are even smart enough to NOT act up when they are foster children... And then, start acting up (even violently) the day after they are adopted, by deceived former-foster parents! Government Almighty has even been known to HIDE the known past abuse, to fool adopting parents!

              Biological parents are best for the child!

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                Not all biological parents want their children. That's a sad fact of life.

              2. D-Pizzle   3 years ago

                And if not raised by biological parents, then death?

              3. Outlaw Josey Wales   3 years ago

                SQRLSY was adopted by a liberal arts major with a Masters in Poetry and a minor in Saurology.

                The influence has clearly warped the lad.

            2. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

              More for those with time to read:

              I wanted to briefly mention “infanticide and sociobiology”. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_(zoology) for some basics. Male animals (lions, monkeys, etc.) will kill the youngest, when they take over a group (pride, troop, tribe, what have you), to make space for spreading THEIR genes, instead of the previous father(s)!

              Does this make it RIGHT that humans should behave similarly? The beasts do it, so we can (should), too? Clearly not! This is absurd! But here comes my fundamental point: To NOT discuss (to ignore) this (or any other) negative programmed behavioral tendency, is to lose an opportunity to be aware, and on guard! As Jesus said, “The truth will set you free”! Deliberate ignorance is (just about absolutely) ALWAYS a hazard!

              Let me quote from the above-cited Wikipedia link, “Humans and infanticide” section: “Family structure is the most important risk factor in child abuse and infanticide. Children who live with both their natural (biological) parents are at low risk for abuse. The risk increases greatly when children live with step-parents or with a single parent. Children living without either parent (foster children) are 10 times more likely to be abused than children who live with both biological parents. Children who live with a single parent that has a live-in partner are at the highest risk: they are 20 times more likely to be victims of child abuse than children living with both biological parents.”

              So there you have it! Whether we like to admit it or not, many of us DO act like beasts! ONE of the practical take-ways (in terms of public policy) is that we should only VERY reluctantly, in the WORST cases, take children away from both biological parents, and hand them over to foster parents. Hand them over to close biological relatives if possible. This makes sociobiological sense. And… Teach your youngsters to reproduce in a careful, responsible manner! Having 5 children by 4 different fathers is NOT a good choice! It is BEGGING for trouble! But yes, just as “wearing that dress” doesn’t excuse the rapist, having too many fathers for your children, doesn’t excuse infanticide, or child abuse, either!

              I’m not sure what other important policy take-aways are here on this topic… I hope that I have hit the most important ones. Here are some related side topics: “Exposing infants” (human infanticide) historically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide. And then there’s the fact that older cultures (WAY before modern sociobiology) intuitively understood these things. “Blood is thicker than water”. Witness the “evil stepmother” tales!

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                Anecdotally my stepfather was a hell of a better father than the sperm doner on my birth certificate.

                1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                  A good man! (The stepfather of course.) They are out there!

                  1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                    He is a rare one. I'm fortunate to have him in my life.

                2. Not Robbers=Nut Rubbers   3 years ago

                  Is sperm doner like Rocky Mountain Oysters?

            3. JesseAz   3 years ago

              Your bald assertion doesn't get better by admitting your are intellectually lazy.

              1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                your are in thnead of premedial edumacation aboot spchelling und grammer!

    3. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      So what do you do as a society?

      Nothing.
      There are wastes of skin that spend their lives parasitizing off of their parents, girlfriends, friends and the government, yet we don't kill them or put them in work camps. Society leaves the issue alone because it's actually the best option.

      1. Overt   3 years ago

        I think you have the best solution. It is not our job as society to ensure that everyone has a wonderful life. "Our" job is to ensure that others are given the freedom to live, learn, make mistakes and triumphs as they see fit with the widest latitude necessary, just so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. Murdering someone because you made a mistake and they are inconvenient falls into that camp of "protecting rights". *shrug*

    4. Cronut   3 years ago

      My cousin is adopted. Biologically, her birth mother wanted to give up the kid she didn't want.

      My aunt and uncle waited years for their turn on the list.

      1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        I said "Biologically the mother will not want to give up the kid that she doesn't want, and now we're in a new mess."

        The point of that was that many, I want to say parents but in reality it's likely just mothers, who intend to give their kids up for adoption change their minds. Could be biology, family pressure, religion, promises of free government money.. whatever.

        They change their minds. That's why adoption is better in theory than in practice.

    5. Cronut   3 years ago

      You know what else lets these losers engage in sex without consequences to the rest of us? Birth control.

      1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        Yet some aren't responsible even enough for that. Want them to be parents too?

        1. Cronut   3 years ago

          Because we allow them to be irresponsible to that extent by coddling them and making it easy and comfortable to be an irresponsible piece of shit.

          There should be a certain amount of embarrassment to being an irresponsible piece of shit and a burden on society, and a certain amount of social pressure not to be an irresponsible piece of shit and a burden on society. When you take away consequences for undesireable behavior, you get more undesireable behavior.

          1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

            While I agree 100%, that ship has sailed.

            1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

              Ships have rudders, they can change course.

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                Ratchets only work in one direction.

                1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                  No they don't. See that switch on the back? Flip it the other way.

                  1. R Mac   3 years ago

                    sarcasmic
                    May.4.2022 at 12:11 pm

                    … Sure I have things to learn from you, everyone knows more about something than I do…

                    We’re making progress here.

                  2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                    In the context of government, which was obvious with his ship analogy, they only work in one direction.

              2. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                Yes, ships can change course, for good or for bad! Like "R" party fanatics outlawing birth control, for example; it MAY yet happen! This is hardly a mainstream conservative opinion today... As SoldierMedic pointed out the other day.

                However, things can change fairly rapidly! 3 years ago, staunchly justifying trumpanzees gone apeshit, in an endeavor to replace democracy with mobocracy (backed up by the mandatory-for-Trump-cultists "Big Lie" beliefs, of course) was ALSO "hardly a mainstream conservative opinion"!

                1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                  That's not changing course. That's ramming speed.

                  Changing course means admitting to being wrong and changing course.

                  When does that ever happen?

                  1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                    Around here, just about never!

    6. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      One would think that putting the kid to death should be the least easy solution to such a problem.

    7. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      It might not be an easy solution that there is bad people in the world, but such a utilitarian view of things is not only awful, it makes a really strong assumption of knowing who will be bad parents, and more to the point, who will be bad kids.

      1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

        Easy, progressives make bad parents

        1. Social Justice is neither   3 years ago

          Don't be unfair, they also make bad kids.

    8. Joe Friday   3 years ago

      The decision should be the woman's. End of story.

      1. Outlaw Josey Wales   3 years ago

        What if the father wants to keep the child, Joseph? No rights? Or really, no choice?

  39. Sheldonius Rex   3 years ago

    ENB, you're lying. Alito most certainly provided evidence that mid 17th century common law often completely banned abortion. He also did not even come close to completely basing his reasoning on 17th century legal precedent. You either did not actually read the whole ruling, or are desperately hoping we won't. Reading tweets is not journalism. It isn't even opinion journalism. It is lazy and pathetic rabble rousing, but it is not journalism.

    1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

      ENB, you're lying.

      Do you expect someone to read past that?

      If someone is wrong, and they care about being correct, then you could have an opportunity to persuade them.

      But if you start off with an accusation, do you really think they're going to read on?

      Maybe next time start with "ENB, you're wrong. And I will explain why."

      Unless you're just here to score points without persuading anyone. In which case well done, carry on.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        He did explain why.

        We get it. You didnt read past the first sentence. Above is a link to volokh that explains it in more depth.

        Not everyone is as intellectually lazy as you.

        1. Longtobefree   3 years ago

          But enough are to keep electing democrats - - - - - - - -

        2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

          Talk about missing the point.

          You don't persuade someone by calling them names.

          Then again, I don't think you try to persuade anyone.

          You just like to call people names.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Enb doesn't read this comment section dummy.

            You called him put for pointing out the flaw in her argument using any reason you could.

            1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              No, I called him out for calling her a liar.

              She could be totally honest and working with bad information.

              1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                Someone who intentionally avoids information that may discredit their argument is fundamentally a liar.

                1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                  Thank you for admitting to being a liar. It's a good start.

      2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        If you read past the first sentence you'd get a damn good explanation of why he said it.
        ENB is deliberately and knowingly lying to us and deserves a bit of opprobrium for doing so.

        1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

          He also gave her a few ways out.
          Which goes back to my original response.

          To persuade you don't start off with "You're a liar! Liar liar! You lie!
          You have bad intentions, and here is why!" That puts someone on the defensive.

          A person trying to persuade may say "You said this, and I believe you are wrong. I'm sure you have good intentions, but these are the likely results of your good intentions. Maybe you should reevaluate."

          Are you here to persuade people, or to score points while being an unlikeable jerk?

          1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            Someone who spent the last three years trolling and pissing off almost everyone here, probably shouldn't be talking about unlikable jerks.

            1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              I see. I'm wrong because I'm a poopyhead who did it first. Is that ad hominem, tu quoque, both?

              1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                You start shit by saying I'm an "unlikable jerk", and then you accuse me of going ad hominem when I give it back to you?

                Always the victim, huh? Never poor sarcasmic's fault that everyone can't stand him. Always someone else's.

                1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                  Hey, speaking of jerks!

                  Q: What is the difference between a woman who just can NOT find a man who treats her well (like Mammary-Fuhrer for example), and so, she is constantly shuttling between abusive men? And a man who abuses women, by, for example yanking on the gazongas too hard?

                  A: The first is a “jerks juggler”, and the second is a “jugs jerker”!

                  Can you say,
                  “Jerks-jugglers juggle jugs-jerking jerks”?

                  (Mammary-Fuhrer, treat others better, STOP being a "Perfect One", and maybe You can attract higher quality men.)

                  1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                    "Hey, speaking of jerks!"

                    That word is like a magical incantation summoning Sqrlsy from whatever circle of hell he dwells in.

        2. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

          She may. There's a chance she chose the woman wif the big ole tiddies just to prove what a vile bunch of misogynists we all are, unable to curb our male gaze from the bewbz. What she didn't take into account is the fact that the large set of breasts is attached to a harridan w/ a megaphone who is a member of a group protesting, irrationally, and in some cases angrily if not violently. Sex may well sell, but since we are in the midst of a discussion on disinformation, this protest, and the cascading talking points and media coverage from the left-leaning emotional support groups have been dishonest at best.

    2. Seamus   3 years ago

      ENB isn't the one lying. She merely cites (albeing approvingly) some specious argumentation by Holly Brewer of the University of Maryland. And Brewer may not be lying, but simply making egregious errors of logic, involving false premises and invalid argument.

      1. Seamus   3 years ago

        *albeit" (not "albeing")

      2. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

        I would suggest that Brewer is aware of what she is saying, and believes it. I cannot say that I know this is fact, but looking at her other work, she does not seem stupid or ill-informed -unless her work is entirely falsified which seems unlikely. So, Brewer appears to be either lying, or purposefully presenting an invalid argument.

        https://history.umd.edu/directory/holly-brewer

  40. Seamus   3 years ago

    So the draft opinion is a "disaster of legal reasoning" because (1) some legal commentators make the laughable argument that the right to bodily integrity includes the right to rip your unborn child out of your body, (2) other legal commentators argue that unenumerated rights that aren't deeply rooted in our nation's history and traditions (e.g., rights that were thought up last week but that the judges really, really like) can nonetheless be protected by the 14th amendment's Due Process Clause, and (3) the portion of Alito's opinion where he calls attention the to errors Blackmun made in his opinion in Roe about the criminality of post-quickening abortion amounts to a claim that "the common law somehow must have made abortion illegal before quickening."

    If that's a "disaster," then the opinion in Roe itself is comparable to an extinction level meteorite strike.

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      The actual law professors over at Reason's own Volokh said "It is a tour de force. Justice Alito meticulously dissects, and forcefully responds to, every conceivable position in favor of retaining Roe and Casey. I could teach an entire law school seminar class on this opinion."

      But ENB would rather follow the legal reasonings of Twitterati who will provide the opinion that matches her biases.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        I never got why the main page editors here refuse to cite the lawyers at volokh.

        1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

          Because they are not smart enough to understand what the lawyers at Volokh are saying?

          Just a guess.

          1. R Mac   3 years ago

            ^

          2. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

            Also, Reason does present a very specific viewpoint and is not above cherrypicking. A lot of what they do here is of mixed intellectual rigor. Some are worse than others.

            Also, writing a daily letter like this is hard and the Reason one is not particularly good.

            1. R Mac   3 years ago

              “Also, Reason does present a very specific viewpoint and is not above cherrypicking.”

              Someone should tell them that this is, in fact, not good for their viewpoint. It’s quite obvious to most, who then instinctually discredit said viewpoint.

            2. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

              Over the last 8 years reason has gone hard on cherrypicked stories and quotes, along with omission of topics that should be of interest to libritarian. They use to steel man libritarian views, but not anymore

        2. D-Pizzle   3 years ago

          Probably because everybody thinks they are a lawyer.

        3. mad.casual   3 years ago

          And not just not cite the lawyers at Volokh but snag rando ambulance chasers, ivory tower dwellers, and grief mongers with law degrees off of Twitter.

    2. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      I've seen fairly varied people of different political persuasions now have different opinions on the legal reasoning. I don't think I've seen any serious scholars call it a "disaster of legal reasoning."

      Shit, the main point about unenumerated rights still being rights is treated extensively by Alito in the opinion.

    3. Seamus   3 years ago

      Don't just take my word for it that Roe itself is a disaster of legal reasoning. Take that of "[l]egal scholars and political scientists": https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2022-05-03/how-roe-vs-wade-went-wrong-broad-new-right-to-abortion-rested-on-a-shaky-legal-foundation

  41. Ronbback   3 years ago

    I don't recall the constitution saying anything about medical procedures and should keep out of that however the constitution does require protecting people from harm and that is where a child's right to bodily integrety can exceed that of the woman's since she gave that up when she had sex.

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      Yes. Unless she was raped, she had a choice and made it.

      1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

        And if you only ban abortions after some reasonable line of viability, say 16 weeks or so, the woman still has four months of being pregnant where she can choose to have an abortion. It is pretty hard to say that a woman who has a four month window to get an abortion is being deprived of a choice in any meaningful way.

        Unless they ban the morning after pill, something that is very unlikely to happen, rape isn't an issue. If a woman is raped, she can and should take a morning after pill to ensure she doesn't get or stay pregnant.

  42. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

    Overturning Roe, assuming that is what actually happens, will transform the debate over abortion in this country and not in a way that will be in any way good for Democrats. As long as Roe stands, Democrats are able to frame the debate over abortion as one of "rights". If something is a "right" in this country, objections to it, no matter how valid or practical, are generally considered morally illegitimate. One of the great principles that animates politics in this country and always has is the principle that rights always take precedent over other interests. So, thanks to Roe declaring abortion a right, Democrats haven't had to defend the merits of things like late term abortions and Planned Parenthood dismembering newborn children and selling their body parts for profit. Democrats are just able to declare abortion a right and any restriction on it, no matter how sensible, as moral illegitimate.

    Without Roe, Democrats will no longer be able to avoid debating the merits of various abortion policies. To some degree, the pro abortion side will have the merits. I don't think anyone outside the fringe really wants states to get into the business of banning morning after pills or investigating every miscarriage as a possible illegal abortion. At the same time, however, there is no reasonable moral or medical case for late term abortions. If the pregnancy has passed the point of viability and has become a threat to the mother's health, the medical answer is to induce labor. At that point, inducing labor is safer for the mother than an abortion. That fact is well established and the majority of people in this country are not going to buy the "what about the safety of the mother" BS that Democrats try and use to justify late term abortions. And no one outside to true fever swamps of the left supports partial birth abortions.

    At a moral level, everyone who has had a child has seen an ultrasound and watched the development of a child in the womb. Most people do not want to get into the debate over whether life truly begins at conception but they certainly know it begins sometime in the womb and not because of some magic trip down the birth canal that transforms a clump of cells into a full human being.

    So, my guess is that a large majority of voters in this country will support pretty serious restrictions if not outright banning of abortion post 15 or 16 weeks. Before that, they probably will just want the state out of it. As far as the right to choose, I don't think the claims that a woman who has three or four months of being pregnant to decide if she wants to have the child being deprived of her "right to choose" are very compelling.

    The problem for the Democrats is that they can't agree to the sort of sensible compromise of banning abortions past 16 weeks because their feminist and hard left base have basically turned into a death cult in their support of abortion. So, they are going to have to die on that hill. Abortion is going to become as big or even a bigger loser required position for them as gun control is now.

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      Well said.

    2. Cronut   3 years ago

      This was my point when I was discussing how this would affect the midterms. Some of the left's worst, most amoral excesses involve abortion. If Roe goes down, they now have to defend those excesses against a majority of Americans that will find them reprehensible. They are now going to have to state exactly what their positions are in legislation, and then defend them, and they're indefensible.

      Also, look at the collection of hateful crazies currently gathered on the SCOTUS steps. They don't in any way represent mainstream America. They are repugnant to most normal people. The left is not pissed because of abortion. Most of them will still be able to get them because they live in blue states. They're pissed because they're losing the shield they've been hiding behind.

  43. Michael Ejercito   3 years ago

    Namely, the right to terminate a pregnancy may be justly seen as a subset of the right to bodily integrity.

    So Jacobson v. Massachussetts was wrongly decided?

  44. Muzzled Woodchipper   3 years ago

    But this obsession with process and punishment over the substance of the opinion is pretty weird.

    “Obsessing” how the first ever leak of its kind of a highly sensitive, internal SCOTUS *DRAFT* that contain arguments that are not yet ready for public consumption and is bound to change drastically between the time it was written and when it’s released, and that was purposefully leaked as a political ploy is “weird”?

    GTFOH.

    It’s a fucking draft. There will almost certainly be holes and inconsistencies, because it’s a fucking draft. That’s how writing works.

    What’s weird is freaking out about a draft that is not yet law, and trying to gloss over how and why it was leaked in favor of treating the argument as if it were final.

    1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

      Justices must be able to deliberate and debate in private if there is to be any kind of honest intellectual inquiry done at the court. And they can't have honest debate if they are worried about some shithead clerk leaking their drafts for political ends. This leak goes to the heart of the ability of the court to function.

      That reason refuses to see that and is defending it shows how intellectually bankrupt they are. All reason cares about is whether the decision gives them what they want. They are incapable of seeing anything deeper or larger than that.

      1. Cronut   3 years ago

        In order for a libertarian society- or any free society at all- to work, people need to generally agree upon the rules, and generally agree to abide by them.

        This leak- which I believe was done by a leftist somewhere in the Court- is another declaration by the left that they refuse to play by the rules. They will violate every rule and every norm in order to burn it all down and rebuild it in their own image, which is in itself anti-democratic because the majority of Americans don't want a system built in the left's image.

        1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

          The other thing is that the left has been the biggest beneficiary of people's respect for the courts over the last 100 years. Time and again, courts have forced leftist positions on the country and the country has gone along with it out of respect for the courts. If the left destroys respect for the institution of the courts, then people will no longer just go along with whatever the courts degree. If that happens, it will be the left that is harmed a lot more than the right.

          1. Cronut   3 years ago

            I don't think the left has any interest in maintaining institutions as they currently stand. The calls for nuking the fillibuster and packing the court were coming less than a couple of hours after the leak.

            If they succeed in nuking the fillibuster and packing the court, we can all kiss traditional institutions as we know them goodbye. Any court that exists will just be a rubber stamp for whatever the leftists dream up. And they believe this will work because they've relied upon the right's general desire to play by the rules and respect institutions.

            1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

              You are exactly right. Being morons, they don't understand that the right's willingness to respect institutions will not outlast the left's destroying them.

          2. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

            The left actively ignores the courts to no reprecussions

            1. Michael Ejercito   3 years ago

              Examples please

              1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

                Oberlin Collage not paying court ordered money to a business they declared as racist then that business got trashed by the pos Oberlin students

    2. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      Gotta love how Orange Hitler was so evil because he shredded our norms, but this gets a pass.

  45. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

    Meanwhile, over in Ukraine....POTUS Biden is busy getting us involved more and more in that fight, and neglecting the danger to Taiwan (which actually is a US national interest because of semiconductors).

    Those poor bastards in that Steel mill are gonna get massacred.

    1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

      I am enjoying watching the Russians get their asses handed to them as much as anyone. That said, this war needs to end. It is a humanitarian disaster and is threatening world food supplies and every day it continues is another day we live under the threat of it escalating into a wider war or worse a nuclear war. Biden and those around him are so stupid they seem not to understand that and are unable to see anything beyond the daily news cycle or have any plan or viable path forward to end this war. It is just terrifying.

      1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

        To me, Ukraine is an EU problem. We back our NATO allies to the hilt. But do not get involved in Ukraine. The EU can do the heavy lifting there. It is not America's problem.

        OTOH, I suppose it is a virtue of sorts that Joe Biden is a politician who once bought (with millions from Ukrainian money), stays bought. At least we know what side Joe Biden is on....the one that pays him the most.

        1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

          George Washington's farewell address warns about getting involved with europ

      2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

        I'm not convinced the Russians are getting their asses handed to them. Many predictions from Western media were made, none of which have seemed to come to fruition. It's very frustrating because I don't know what to believe. I certainly can't believe anything coming out of Russian media, but increasingly, I have trouble believing anything out of our own. So all I can really do is listen to the predictions and statements made by western media, scribble a note down on a post-it, then revisit it a few weeks later to see if the prediction came true.

        Hint: The ruble is now at its STRONGEST position against the USD in well over a year. The ruble is not only NOT "rubble", it appears to be doing very well.

        The Russians were supposed to have run out of ammunition, gas, and other basic war-making supplies a few weeks ago, yet here we are.

        And now the West seems to be goading Ukraine into NOT negotiating. As one person said: The west seems intent on fighting Russia down to the last Ukrainian.

        1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

          I am absolutely convinced they are getting their asses handed to them. Their attempt to take Kiev ended in failure. They have lost the flag ship of the Black Sea fleet, the Ukrainians are on the offensive and seem to have the momentum. It has been a complete disaster for the Russian military. I actually wish it hadn't worked out that way. Had the Russians done better, I would be less worried about them doing something crazy and starting a nuclear war.

          1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

            I am absolutely convinced they are getting their asses handed to them. Their attempt to take Kiev ended in failure.

            It is my opinion (and the opinion of... military analysts who don't work for CNN) that it was NEVER the intent of Russia to put the capitol city under siege. That was a side show to tie up the bulk of the Ukrainian forces so Russia could surround the Donbas region.

            The goal here, based on very clear signaling from Putin and the Minsk II agreement is the Donbas. You drop a few bombs and fire a couple of missiles into Kiev, that causes the Ukrainians (and the West to panic), they fortify Kiev with the bulk of their military and then that softens up the real target: Eastern Ukraine.

            1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

              It is my opinion (and the opinion of... military analysts who don't work for CNN) that it was NEVER the intent of Russia to put the capitol city under siege

              There are hundreds of burned out Russian vehicles that say otherwise. They put the Kiev under siege. There is no denying that and they didn't put thousands of troops and a 40 mile long convoy there to do it by accident. It is what it is.

              I don't trust CNN either. I do, however, trust my lying eyes.

              1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

                When this war first broke out, I hinted in an early comment that Kiev was a side show and the Donbas would be the focus.

                Here's the western media on this very issue:

                Russia has shifted most of the focus of its war to eastern Ukraine, after pulling back its forces from near the capital Kyiv. The battle for Ukraine's old industrial heartland known as Donbas is likely to decide the fate of the Russian invasion.

                So was I wrong? Was I accidentally right? Am I the Broken clock that gets it right twice a day? I honestly have no idea. But when I read stuff like the above, my thinking is, "They didn't change strategy, that IS the strategy."

                I don't know what the reality on the ground is, and this is a conflict that I've spent a lot of time, sitting back with my arms crossed and trying to do more listening than talking.

                Here was the Western Media a month ago:

                Sanctions are already devastating the country economically. The ruble has taken a beating, losing 50% of its value on Monday after the sanctions were announced over the weekend. The currency has continued to slump over the past several days, at one point dropping an additional 8% on Wednesday. Before the crisis began, the Bank of Russia said its reserves were sufficient to cover 20 months’ worth of imports. That figure is likely to be 10 months now.

                Look how that's turning out.

                1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

                  It was never a side show. The extent of the battle and Russian losses put lie to that. Just stop it with this nonsense. Really, it is just nonsense. The plan was to take Kiev and absorb the entire country. There wasn't any 12 D chess going on. The Russians didn't burn through most of their military in some diversion plan.

                  1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

                    The plan was to take Kiev and absorb the entire country. There wasn't any 12 D chess going on. The Russians didn't burn through most of their military in some diversion plan.

                    See, when I read stuff like this, it seems like it's coming from someone who has no clue what the Minsk II agreement was about. There is NO evidence that Russia is or was trying to take the entire country. That is a Western narrative designed to pull Western interests into the war.

                    There isn't 12d chess with the Minsk II agreement, there is 1d chess: Take the queen, ie, Donbas.

                    None of my comments are to suggest that this will succeed. But the idea that the Russian army was going to capture Kiev is bordering on the laughable.

                    So again, was I right accidentally? Was I right but for the wrong reasons? Time will tell.

                    1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

                      There is NO evidence that Russia is or was trying to take the entire country.

                      Only the fact that they invaded from from three different directions, took an airport next to the capital and tried to decapitate the government. Other than all of their actions, there is no evidence at all.

                      WTF is wrong with you? Russia invaded Ukraine with several hundred thousand troops and besieged the capital for weeks while actively trying to capture and imprison or kill the government. In what universe can it be said "there is no evidence that they intended to take the entire country"? Do you realize how stupid you sound?

                      I cannot understand why otherwise reasonable people will go to such great lengths to avoid admitting the obvious. Name me one other time in history where a country invaded another along three fronts, besieged its capital, and tried to decapitate its government but didn't actually meant to take it over? I will be waiting for that answer.

                      Just take a step back and ask yourself why you want to believe this so much. It is just bizarre. Stop it. The fact that Russia is losing this war and it has been a disaster says nothing about the merits of their cause whatever they are. One has nothing to do with the other. So, if you think Russia is right or Ukraine more wrong, fine. Just understand that that is a totally different debate than the military reality on the ground. Stop deluding yourself and see the facts as they are.

                    2. ThomasD   3 years ago

                      I'm not sure they wanted the whole country. Most everything east of the Dnieper, sure. But maybe they wanted to leave the western half as some sort of puppet rump state - like Belarus.

                      I think the goals of the initial invasion were political decapitation in Kiev and encirclement/destruction of the bulk of Ukrainian forces in the eastern half.

                      That said, they have gotten their asses kicked and it's not clear they will even be able to hold what they are currently entrenching - e.g. Kherson.

                    3. Joe Friday   3 years ago

                      Briggs, "Diane" is the same Diane who backed telling several hundred thousand people to not get vaxxed who would be alive today if they did. What can you expect? "She" is rooting for Russian success - her eagerness to find evidence of this is pathetic - and so of course she's sees this complete debacle - including the collapse of most of Russia's markets in Europe and the expansion of NATO - as just a temporary planned feint.

                    4. R Mac   3 years ago

                      Joe Friday, you’re a stupid asshole.

          2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

            Oh and by the by, Boris Johnson is beginning to hint that Ukraine might not be doing as well as we had hoped.

            And here was another line in the sand that appears to have gotten crossed pretty quickly.

            1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

              They could collapse entirely tomorrow and it still would be a complete disaster for the Russian military. The Russians have lost hundreds of vehicles and countless amounts of equipment they have no way to replace and lost a decent portion of their best trained people that also will be difficult if not impossible to replace.

              1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

                To me, the American interest was to wound the Bear, via the Ukraine military, badly enough to forestall action against a NATO member. This might well have been achieved. Now we will see troop movements via satellite if Russia attempts to reinforce.

                What also happened was we managed to drive Russia straight into the arms of China. Not sure that was a good idea...

              2. R Mac   3 years ago

                IIRC, Soldiermedic identified some of the equipment that was being used by Russia near Kiev, and he said it was not their elite units, but was outdated. This would support Paul’s position.

                1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

                  No. what that shows is that they can't field their best equipment. That it is for show and they can't do the maintenance and training necessary to field it. They didn't send the old equipment in for fun or out of kindness or something. They sent it in because that is all they could field.

                  1. R Mac   3 years ago

                    Maybe. Time will tell.

                  2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

                    What it could mean is they weren't going to use their best equipment on a side show.

                    1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

                      To believe that is to believe they wanted to lose and were okay with equipment that they no longer have the ability to make being destroyed. That is possible but it seems very unlikely.

                      Is there any limit to the number of excuses people like you will make for Russia here? I am taking the easy answer and saying that the Russians attacked Kiev with thousands of people and some of their best combat troops because they wanted to take it. Absent some pretty compelling evidence to the contrary, that is my explanation for the facts I know. Sorry but "CNN lies" and "Ukrainian propaganda" isn't compelling enough evidence for me not to believe the obvious explanation for things.

                      You have zero evidence any of your claims are true. You just have assertions that they might be true. That would be okay if your claims didn't require reading into Russian motivations and ignoring the obvious. Since they do, I am going with the obvious until shown otherwise.

            2. ThomasD   3 years ago

              I think this is the dawning realization that, so long as the West keeps supplying Ukraine this fight will go on a lot longer, and as that happens Putin will become more desperate.

              Johnson would be fine if letting Putin keep what he has now in exchange for an end to the shooting.

        2. Seamus   3 years ago

          It's very frustrating because I don't know what to believe.

          As a general rule, it's best not to believe anyone until you've gotten lots of confirmation. I just assume that both sides are lying. Of course, the enemy is stretched thin and is going to collapse any day now. Of course, the enemy is deliberately committing atrocities. Of course, the war crimes of our side either didn't happen, were false flag events committed by the other side, were tragic errors, or were the unauthorized acts of rogue actors who are now being disciplined. And "our" side is as likely to lie as the "bad guys," because our side is fighting for a righteous cause, which makes it OK to bend the truth a bit in the service of a higher good.

          The one thing I'm perfectly willing to believe is that both sides are committing war crimes. It may or may not be the policy of either side, and it may be that one side is more likely to commit them than another. But as a general rule, when you put young men who have been given lethal weapons by their governments into stressful situations (especially life-threatening ones), bad things happen. (And that's not even talking about relatively benign war crimes like putting Russian prisoners on TV, as the Ukrainians apparently did.)

          1. Longtobefree   3 years ago

            It's like everyone has forgotten that war involves killing and killing and killing until the other guy surrenders.
            (real wars like this one, not 'police actions' and whatever Viet Nam was)

        3. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          "It's very frustrating because I don't know what to believe. I certainly can't believe anything coming out of Russian media, but increasingly, I have trouble believing anything out of our own."

          Me too.
          I normally hate the both sides position, because whenever it's not a cop-out it's usually dishonest, but I'm having a hell of a time actually believing anything.

      3. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

        I am enjoying watching the Russians get their asses handed to them as much as anyone.

        It's not obvious that this is what's happening.

        1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

          Yes it is. See above.

  46. Dillinger   3 years ago

    >>Some Republicans are mad, too:

    you should be embarrassed to cite Susan Collins as (R)

  47. Brian   3 years ago

    Let me guess: a constitutional amendment for “bodily autonomy” isn’t a proposed solution to this issue.

    1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

      Great idea until someone explains how that would apply to vaccines. I have to admit I am getting way too much pleasure watching the left meltdown over this decision.

      1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

        OMG yes Briggs.....My body, my choice.

        My take: Sorry Team D and uber-libs, you lost your moral claim to that 'choice' argument with your stance on vaccines....taking away people's livelihoods, threatening to take away their children, threatening with imprisonment, threaten to deny healthcare. No, the progtards can all go fuck themselves now.

        1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

          Gee, maybe if they had kept abortion "safe, legal and rare" instead of celebrating it as a badge of honor and having Planned Parenthood dismember 8 month fetuses to sell their body parts for profit, so many people wouldn't be so keen on overturning Roe.

          It is just possible that falling down every slippery slope and living down to the most hysterical predictions of your worst critics on every single issue, isn't a very effective way to run a political movement in the long term. I know it is crazy but it just might be true.

          1. raspberrydinners   3 years ago

            The fact you believe any of that just shows how much of a gd moron you are.

            JFC you people are unhinged. Step back into reality anytime now.

            1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

              Yeah, there is no such thing as Planned Parenthood and no such thing as late term abortions. Nope, never happens. That is why the left goes insane every time someone wants to ban late term abortions, because they never happen.

              Do yourself a favor and turn off CNN. Seriously, just turn it off.

              1. R Mac   3 years ago

                Shitlunches doesn’t get his bullshit from CNN. It’s emailed to him every morning.

            2. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

              Unhinged? That is funny. And Planned Parenthood's founder is who, dickweed raspberry? Oh yeah, Margaret Sanger. And what was her stated purpose for Planned Parenthood? Oh....eugenics?

              I don't think Briggs is the unhinged one here.

            3. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              The fact you don't believe any of that just shows how much of a gd moron you are.
              There are thousands of hours of video and witness testimonies showing exactly all those things.

            4. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

              Planned parenthood admitted on camera to aborting at 8 and 9 months, and by aborting they said taking still living babies dissecting them and selling the parts

          2. R Mac   3 years ago

            “It is just possible that falling down every slippery slope and living down to the most hysterical predictions of your worst critics on every single issue, isn't a very effective way to run a political movement in the long term.”

            Well said.

      2. raspberrydinners   3 years ago

        Did anyone force you to get a vaccine?

        No?

        Then stfu you donkey.

        1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

          Yes, people were forced to get vaccines all over the country at the threat of losing their jobs and no longer being able to go to public places.

          If you are going to troll and lie, you should try to tell more believable lies.

        2. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

          you cant be serious

          1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            Tony's an idiot.

        3. Outlaw Josey Wales   3 years ago

          There was this gathering. In Canada. Something about some trucks.

          Hear of it?

    2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

      It conflicts with some currently ongoing issues. Backburnered for now.

      1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

        It is funny as hell how fast "birthing people" has turned back into "a woman's right to choose". A month or so ago we were being told that you needed to be a biologist to say what a woman is.

        1. Brian   3 years ago

          Progressive politics has all the consistency of a sci-fi movie.

        2. Longtobefree   3 years ago

          https://babylonbee.com/news/ketanji-brown-jackson-up-all-night-reading-biology-textbooks-trying-to-figure-out-what-everybody-means-by-womens-right-to-abortion

    3. Cronut   3 years ago

      The left has no interest in codifying general "bodily autonomy," or general autonomy of individuals at all. What they want are specific rulings that only apply to their preferred sacred cows.

      Codifying autonomy of individuals is counter to all their desired endstates.

  48. Dillinger   3 years ago

    >>In the longer term, some see it invigorating Democratic support and/or intensifying culture wars.

    the plan all along.

  49. Moderation4ever   3 years ago

    Thanks for the analysis of the Alito draft's reasoning. I am surprised by the claim that a 7-2 decision was wrong being made by a 5-4 draft decision. The fact is that the Roe decision is a well written decision and claims of it being in error are just opinion. Roe can be reversed by there is no overwhelming logic to the reversal, it is just the fact that the conservatives have the votes to do so at this time.

    1. ThomasD   3 years ago

      Who knew M4E was ENB's mom?

      1. ThomasD   3 years ago

        Sorry, ...ENB's birthing person...

        1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

          Wait....no. You meant carrier of the birthing uterus. 🙂

          1. Outlaw Josey Wales   3 years ago

            Cell manager?

    2. Seamus   3 years ago

      So John Hart Ely (no pro-lifer he) was blowing smoke when he said of Roe that it was "bad because it is bad constitutional law, or rather because it is not constitutional law and gives almost no sense of an obligation to try to be"?

      1. Moderation4ever   3 years ago

        What I am saying is there is no consensus opinion that Roe was wrongly decided. I am sure you can find legal opinions opposing and supporting the original Roe decision. It is notable that 3 of the justices on 1973 case wrote concurring opinions themselves.

        So, I think it wrong to suggest Roe was wrongly decided and would prefer a simple statement that we have the votes to change the decision and so we will do so.

        1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

          Even Ruth bater cancer cunt said roe was wrongly decided on a specious argument

  50. Red Harem   3 years ago

    If you want to "Keep Abortion Legal" maybe you should rely on laws to do that, and not court rulings based on convoluted interpretations of the Constitution.

    I'd imagine that it saves a lot more energy to vote for lawmakers who will vote in favor or abortion, rather than picketing and throwing a fuss every six months whenever SCOTUS decides that they *might* leave this issue up to the states (as they should).

    1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

      And abortion will be legal in some form in most if not all of the country. What will end up being illegal is late term abortions. If the left were anything but fanatics, they wouldn't have a problem with that.

      1. raspberrydinners   3 years ago

        Go ahead and point out where late term abortions are even an issue. Please tell me again just how many of those are "oh, I don't want the kid" and not because of medical emergencies that endanger either the mother or would-be child.

        I'll wait.

        Just know it's gonna be a dumbass statement when someone says "leftists" or "the left" as if it's some monolithic movement that is seeking some grand plan.

        1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

          There is no such thing as a medically necessary late term abortion. If continuing the pregnancy is a threat to the mother's health, inducing labor is always the safer option than doing an abortion. The child being born ends the pregnancy and the threat tot he mother's health just like an abortion and does so in a safer way.

          Again, turn off CNN. Just walk away dude.

          1. wreckinball   3 years ago

            You hit the nail on the head. We'll hear about the 1% of cases argument rape/incest while ignoring the 99% who use abortion as birth control.

        2. D-Pizzle   3 years ago

          There are only approximately 10,000 elective late term abortions in the US, a mere pittance.

          1. wreckinball   3 years ago

            So no problem then. Right banning them is no big deal

      2. Joe Friday   3 years ago

        Most late term abortions are due to serious health risks for the mother and or the birth of infants without brains and similarly cheerful outcomes.

        1. Outlaw Josey Wales   3 years ago

          And there will be states who support the medical processes you are asking for. Perhaps the insurance companies or some other free market enterprise will come up with a way to service that niche market.

  51. wreckinball   3 years ago

    There is no right to abortion in the constitution. It was invented by SCOTUS. SCOTUS could have just as easily declared the right to life of the fetus as inalienable. Also would be invented.

    Unlike other rulings people are throwing out like gay marriage for example. It was based on 14A that government should treat all marriages equal, Likewise precedent such as "separate but equal" have also been rescinded because they weren't equal treatment.

    So Alito's opinion states that there is no constitutional basis for the ruling. Therefore per the words of 10A back to the states and the people. Correct.

    Abortion was not allowed nationwide in 1972 when the ruling was made. That was the purpose of 10A to allows states autonomy recognizing there would be differences. GA was not the same as NY in 1790 either

    If a super majority wishes to amend the constitution go ahead. Its been done for all kinds of things like women's right to vote, ending slavery and prohibiting alcohol. The latter was later repealed.

    1. wreckinball   3 years ago

      I meant to say abortion was allowed in some states and not in others in 1972. Also today alcohol is also allowed in some places but not in others.

    2. raspberrydinners   3 years ago

      They noted that abortion was a right to privacy between a woman and her doctor.

      Do you think women don't deserve privacy in their medical matters?

      Or that they deserve less agency over their own bodies than corpses (ie. no organ donations, etc.) ?

      1. wreckinball   3 years ago

        There is no general right to privacy in the constitution. I guess you're anti-vaccine mandate then? There are a million other counter examples. It was invented to justify this outcome.
        But every contention regarding the mother could be made for the baby.
        Viability is BS because a one week old baby is no more able to survive than one who is a week away from full term.

        But that is the disagreement. That privacy in this matter is an implied right whereas in many many other cases its not.

        The ruling does not make abortion illegal. It just leaves it up to the states as it was 1790-1972. If you want to create a inalienable right explicit to abortion start an amendment

      2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

        Do you think women don't deserve privacy in their medical matters?

        But mask mandates and mandatory vaccines are ok.

      3. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

        ^now do the drug war

      4. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

        You lost any moral claim to your 'agency' argument with your support for vaccine mandates. You (and people who think like you) took away people's livelihoods with your support of vaccine mandates.

        What will happen now is what should have happened 50 years ago. The people will decide the abortion regulation questions themselves, acting through their state legislatures. We the People can decide this question by persuading others, and voting.

      5. Seamus   3 years ago

        Do you think women don't deserve privacy in their medical matters?

        The District of Columbia has a law that purports to ban "gay conversion therapy," both for adults and for minors. Do you oppose that law too?

        1. Seamus   3 years ago

          Clarification: *some* adults.

  52. raspberrydinners   3 years ago

    Not news to anyone. These charlatans just want their way and they'll use any bullshit to justify it.

    And the authoritarians here will cheer them on all the same.

    1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

      Yes they will. Maybe you should take this advice to heart and try not being the first victim. Just saying.

    2. Dillinger   3 years ago

      why do you fear the votes of the people of the states?

    3. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      Yes, mask mandates and vaccination passports for the win!

      1. wreckinball   3 years ago

        The hypocrisy is very deep here.

    4. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

      Yeah, the strangest authoritarian shit ever....Hey, guess what? We 'Top Persons' are not deciding the question on regulating abortions, you the American people will decide it by persuasion and voting. Yeah, sounds pretty authoritarian to me. Totes.

      Do you have any enduring principles at all? Any? Just asking.

  53. wreckinball   3 years ago

    I hear abortion is super duper popular. Than there should be no problem passing a constitutional amendment? Right. So go ahead. If you want to force all states one size fits all start an amendment.

    1. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

      can we put a rider on that to eliminate the income tax?

      1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

        and a second rider to repeal amendment 17?

        1. Longtobefree   3 years ago

          And a third rider to eliminate asset forfeiture?

  54. Bill Godshall   3 years ago

    All five Supreme Court Justices who are conspiring to strike down Roe and Casey as unconstitutional are Conservative Catholics, who plan to impose a Papal decree to make all American women's vaginas property/slaves owned and controlled by the state.

    By legally requiring women to have unwanted babies, the proposed theocratic Puritan court ruling would strike down and deny women's fundamental natural right to bodily integrity.

    While anti abortion extremists may be reveling now, this ruling could prompt the GOP to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in November (in many US House, US Senate, Governors, State AG, State House and State Senate races), as the vast majority of voters in suburban swing districts strongly support womens right to abortion.

    If GOP candidates in swing districts and states want to win in November, they'd be wise to go only support an abortion ban after 15 weeks ban, and exempt cases of rape, incest and mother's health.

    GOP candidates (in swing states and districts) who call for a total ban (or near total) on abortions are likely to lose to pro choice Democrats in November (as Democrats will make abortion their primary campaign issue).

    1. Bill Godshall   3 years ago

      After this political bombshell, I now think Democrat Josh Shapiro will be PA's next Governor (after saying he'll veto any bill enacted by the PA House and Senate that bans abortion).

      1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        This is borderline retarded.
        We get it, you love abortion, but unregulated abortion has nowhere near the public support that you think that it has.
        In the next few months most states will follow the European abortion model of stopping the killing at 14 weeks, which is what the vast majority favor.

        1. Bill Godshall   3 years ago

          Just 10% of Americans support banning all abortion.

          Unfortunately for freedom loving Americans (and all women), the policy of GOP theocrats is to ban all abortions.

          1. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

            Did you even read the response before putting in that strawman!

            There is less support for unrestricted abortion rights (about 13%) than there is for a total ban on abortion (about 19%). The majority is for something in between.

          2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            Just 10% of Americans support banning all abortion.

            This is the exact same bullshit you pulled yesterday when we were talking about regulation. You immediately conflated it with bans.
            Stop being so dishonest.

      2. MachineGunBodine   3 years ago

        In your wet dreams.

    2. ThomasD   3 years ago

      Needs more spittle flecks.

      1. ThomasD   3 years ago

        Also your "advice" to prospective GOP pols is totes credible.

      2. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

        Urine-soaked trousers would add a lot to the argument. This is pretty much rak lite.

    3. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

      Are you sure it is the evil Catholics Bill and not the Jews? I mean those evil Jews probably had something to do with it, right?

      BTW, when is the next rally? You probably need to get your white suit cleaned before then.

    4. wreckinball   3 years ago

      I hear that they will wear funny hats like the pope does when they announce it!

    5. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

      you forgot to include climate change in this somehow.

    6. Seamus   3 years ago

      So which is it, a papal decree or a Puritan court ruling? You do know, don't you, that Puritanism and popery are not exactly compatible?

  55. Azathoth!!   3 years ago

    That makes it one of the many rights "retained by the people" (in the words of the Ninth Amendment) that were imported from English law into the Constitution.

    No rights were 'imported from English Law into the Constitution'. ALL rights are inborn. Some were enumerated. Some of that enumeration was imported. If that extremely basic concept has slipped by you, you have no place writing about this topic.

    The 'bodily integrity' line is hogwash anyway. If you force another person to be reliant upon you against their will, you do not have the legal right to kill them because you find the situation inconvenient.

    Jason Kuznicki, editor in chief of the think tank TechFreedom, takes issue with the idea that rights must be "deeply rooted in history" in order to be valid.

    Rights must be deeply rooted in history because they are inborn. Rights get described, enumerated, and protected because most systems of law have traditionally revolved around setting limits on rights.

    A good rule of thumb is that a right cannot require the labor of another.

    Thus there can not BE a right to abortion or even a right to marriage--of any kind. Because both require the involvement of others.

    Freedom of the press is not a right. Freedom of speech IS a right and it includes the freedom to write and publish without government suppression. It includes freedom of belief and association. But is is a SINGLE right--and one that does not require the labor of another.

    1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

      "A good rule of thumb is that a right cannot require the labor of another."

      Yes. And that flows from the fact that freedom cannot exist without responsibility. If your ability to do something requires someone else to pay for it, you are not free because you are not the person ultimately making the decision to take the action; the person paying for it is. A child whose parents promise to buy them any toy in a store isn't "free" to have toy of his choice because it is the parents not them who are making the decision. It is only when you accept the responsibility of paying for your decision that you are truly free. Without that, you are just a prisoner to someone else's decision not your own.

    2. ThomasD   3 years ago

      "A good rule of thumb is that a right cannot require the labor of another."

      I concur entirely.

      So 'abortion' as a third party procedure (medical or otherwise) indeed is not a right.

      However I do believe that we have a fundamental right to ingest most anything, and can do with our own bodies as we please. So, at least in a legislative/judicial sense, it is possible that some methods of abortion could be a right.

      So long as we are ignoring the net effect on the other human being, that is.

    3. Longtobefree   3 years ago

      But it clearly does not include the freedom to have a twitter account.

  56. Joe M   3 years ago

    But this obsession with process and punishment over the substance of the opinion is pretty weird.

    This is an incredibly disappointing sentiment. The ability to deliberate in private is crucial to a properly functioning, independent SCOTUS. The explosion of outrage on all sides clearly shows the metric fuckton of political pressure that could weight on justices if their deliberations are made public before a ruling has been released.

    If you don't think this is going, and in fact was intended, to taint or alter the upcoming ruling in some way, you're lying to yourself. There's a reason this has never happened before. I don't know if there needs to be any legal punishment, but certainly professional punishment is forthcoming and justified.

  57. Jerry B.   3 years ago

    “Namely, the right to terminate a pregnancy may be justly seen as a subset of the right to bodily integrity.”

    So, like the right to refuse vaccine mandates, or to use drugs, right?

    1. ThomasD   3 years ago

      " the right to bodily integrity"

      Which body?

      1. ThomasD   3 years ago

        Also note that it is now "bodily integrity" and not "bodily autonomy."

        Because the latter would mean you do not need to bake the fucking cake.

        Libertarian my ass.

    2. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

      LOL. "right to bodily integrity" my ass. These people support the FDA, DEA, banning menthols. They support complete and total control of every possible decision you can make over your own body.

  58. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

    So I guess it's just wall to wall abortion 24/7 now eh?

    1. R Mac   3 years ago

      So, along with Ukraine, is this two tails wagging one dog, or one tail wagging two dogs, or two tails wagging two dogs?

      And say that five times fast, please.

      1. Briggs Cunningham   3 years ago

        Long term abortion will go away. The country will reach a political compromise on it and that will be it. That and the corresponding loss of the ability to distract and divide people with the issue is biggest reason why Democrats are so angry about this.,

        1. rbike   3 years ago

          And if Mexico clamped down on the border and stopped all transit, the uUS politicians would be lost.

  59. Dillinger   3 years ago

    OT: the Cult still burns the house down live. if they're coming to your town go see them.

  60. chemjeff radical individualist   3 years ago

    Well, I don't think it's fair to call Alito's writing a "disaster". BUT, I am uncomfortable with the idea that rights only count if they are "deeply rooted in history and tradition", or whatever the phrase is that he used. It suggests that our rights were discovered centuries ago and that's that, no more rights can exist. And that's just not accurate. Our understanding of natural rights goes in tandem with our understanding of the natural world in general - as our understanding increases, so do our thoughts and arguments about the nature of rights. As technology changes, our application of rights, or even new rights, can emerge - if we ever get to the stage of human development where merging of human and artificial intelligence becomes possible, what implications would that have for rights? Surely that is not something that Locke or Madison would have ever contemplated. So the argument that there is no right to an abortion because it is not "deeply rooted in history and tradition" is not a persuasive argument to me. I do think there ARE persuasive arguments, but that is not one of them.

    1. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      What is an objective standard for determining thus undiscovered unenumerated rights that avoid any disagreement with that determination?

      I do not think merely telling "This is a right!" is particularly convincing, especially when implementing such a right compromises other people's rights.

      1. chemjeff radical individualist   3 years ago

        I would say that a good rule of thumb is that a right is the the permission to execute an action that one has the ability to perform, at least in principle, that does not violate the NAP. This rule of thumb probably doesn't cover every conceivable case (notably abortion), but I think it is a good broad starting point. With changes in technology, as well as with changes in society, our abilities to execute certain actions change, as well as our understanding of what constitutes aggression that violates the NAP. For example, is bullying a type of prohibited aggression? How about cyberbullying? There isn't a necessarily right or wrong answer here.

    2. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

      Well there is this: For 185 years, there were laws on the books relative to abortion in the individual states, that reflected the views of the people within those states. Roe upended the democratic process (that was on-going). IF (we have yet to get the Dobbs decision) the question of abortion is returned to the states where it belongs, it will be resolved by the people themselves in a democratic process.

  61. Patrick Henry, the 2nd   3 years ago

    Its only a mess to pro-baby killing "Libertarians" because they don't understand rights.

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      For Teen Reason some humans have more rights than others.

  62. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

    But this obsession with process and punishment over the substance of the opinion is pretty weird.

    No, it is not. This is an incredibly bold statement, and it is not supported even by the immediate quote:


    "The Court's credibility doesn't depend on ceremonies or secrets or mystique. It depends on it getting the answers right," notes Timothy Sandefur, an adjunct at Cato and vice president at Goldwater Institute. "If it gets the answers wrong; no amount of officialdom and ritual will save it. If it gets the answers right, none is necessary."

    This is facially true, but does not speak to the incredibly practical matter of deliberating in public and the impact that has on the ability of political forces to put pressures on individual judges and cases. This has very, very significant consequence for getting it right in the long run. I respect CATO enough to suspect that this quote is taken out of context and that ENB is one here who is wrong.

  63. chemjeff radical individualist   3 years ago

    In today's non-abortion, non-Ukraine news:

    Topless beaches legalized in Nantucket

    https://apnews.com/article/business-massachusetts-f0ae65c941cff078021ad6c67fa7a9e7

    1. NoVaNick   3 years ago

      Meh-who needs a topless beach when you can stare at the knockers in the photo that goes with this article. Besides, Nantucket is mostly for uptight prissy girls anyway, so not going to see much.

    2. R Mac   3 years ago

      I go topless at every beach.

  64. chemjeff radical individualist   3 years ago

    More non-abortion, non-Ukraine news:

    Sixty-three 3rd graders get full-ride scholarships to college

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2022/05/02/third-graders-arizona-college-scholarships/9585318002/

    This looks like an awesome project. In the article they hint at one reason why they are giving college scholarships to kids so early - if they know that they have the financial resources to go to college, it can help motivate them to do better in school so that they are able to get accepted to a better college than they otherwise might have gotten in to. What a good idea.

    1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      It's an interesting experiment. Will be curious to see how it pans out. There's also a possibility that it will encourage kids to go to college when it would not otherwise benefit them to do so. Something we've seen over the last few decades as well.

      But, I'm certainly open to experiments with it.

  65. Nemo Aequalis   3 years ago

    I really don't give a shit about abortion either way, but seeing the Enlightened™ take another boot in the face is always a pleasure. I count this as a win!

  66. Marshal   3 years ago

    only 19 percent think abortion should be illegal under all circumstances,"

    The percentage (32%) who think abortion should be legal in all circumstances is also a distinct minority, and is likely overstated since not everyone understands what "all circumstances" really means. In this case the middle is half the population either party's position can be framed as overwhelmingly unpopular.

  67. Joe Friday   3 years ago

    Alito's draft exposes him as anything but a strict constructionist as he struggles to justify his essentially religious preferences as from the constitution.

    Beyond the affect of the anticipated ruling, which will remove a court determined constitutional right from half the US population (at some time in their life) is the equally large issue of the enforcement of minority will on Americans by an illegitimate SC. All but 1 of the 5 majority justices were appointed by a president not elected by the people, but by the random winner-take-all electoral college. 2 of the 5 should not be there at all - Goresuch is in a seat which GOP senators (all of them) purposefully stole from a twice popularly elected president (they failed their duty to "advise and consent" to purposefully take away the president's right to nominate justices - no hearings were held, so while consent is not guaranteed by the constitution, "advise" is cleary intended to arrive at a suitable nominee), Barret was voted on after the election was already begun, and was nominated by a president everyone - including himself - knew was going to lose. Her seat should have been Biden's to name, based on the concept Republicans had claimed was the reason - bullshit - they held Scalia's seat open.

    In short, the SC is broken, it is intended to roughly represent majority will since the elected President names candidates. Instead, we have a bunch of loser picks who's religion they were raised in and/or claim now is officially opposed to abortion. It represents 20% of the US, 66.7% of the court, and 100% of this draft's majority.

    Don't tell us about the leak as if that were the problem. This court has no basis for respect from American voters, who it does not represent. Part of that is due to the fucked up winner take all (not in the constitution) EC randomness but 2 of the seats - deciding the court majority - were stolen from the Presidents Americans chose in the last decade.

    1. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      What an impressive block of whingeing.

    2. Overt   3 years ago

      I can almost set my watch by the likes of Joe, who sit patiently waiting until Reddit boards, Twitter Trends, and TikToks have churned through enough "Just say shit and see if it sticks" to surface their talking points for the next few weeks. It is hilarious. Nevertheless, let's see how many lies Joe can fit into a single sentence:

      "All but 1 of the 5 majority justices were appointed by a president not elected by the people, but by the random winner-take-all electoral college."

      * Lie 1- "1 of 5" - In fact 3 of 5 Majority Justices were appointed by the president who won the popular vote. Alito and Roberts were appointed in Bush's second term after winning the popular vote.

      * Lie 2: "Not by the people": Whether or not you agree with how the peoples' votes work, it is still a vote by the people, so you lie again.

      * Lie 3: "Some random..": There is nothing random about the electoral college. It is well understood and deterministic. You know that if you get the votes here, here and here, you will win the presidency. There is nothing random at all.

      * Not a lie, just hyperbolic stupidity: "Winner take all": What is a popular vote? Winner take all! SMH.

      So 3 lies and a marked misunderstanding of what Winner-takes-all means. But we should totes pay attention to what he has to say about everything else. Clearly his analysis is clear headed and sober.

      Joe, your message bots are failing you. Go ask them to feed you better material, or you are going to look like a worse fool.

      1. Joe Friday   3 years ago

        Overt:

        "Alito and Roberts were appointed in Bush's second term after winning the popular vote."

        Bush was the incumbent in 2004 only because he was appointed by the EC after the SC's intervention in 2000. Mind telling us how many times a guy who lost the previous presidential election was nominated and won in the next?

        ""Not by the people": Whether or not you agree with how the peoples' votes work, it is still a vote by the people, so you lie again."

        Nice semantics exercise, but it a fact that Bush and Trump were rejected by American voters.

        "There is nothing random about the electoral college. It is well understood and deterministic. You know that if you get the votes here, here and here, you will win the presidency. There is nothing random at all."

        Winner take all state awarding of electors is not in the constitution - 2 states assign electors proportionally - and it's results are random. If Kerry had won 60k more votes in Ohio in 2004 he would have been president with less than the national popular vote. Do you find some meaning in that fact?

        ""Winner take all": What is a popular vote? Winner take all! SMH." Explained above. Is that too difficult for you?

        In short, the only thing you offer is the idea that somehow winner take all state electors actually do represent American voters, when in fact twice in the last 20 years (and twice before that in the previous 212 years) they did not. That is a fact and that makes it a fact that of the signers of this draft 80% were appointed by losers who Americans rejected for the presidency and don't represent what American voters want.

      2. Joe Friday   3 years ago

        PS I note you don't address the theft of the seats Goresuch and Barrett hold. Citizens can accept the unfortunate fact our fucked up EC system has given us 2 losers in 16 years and they got court appointments. What is not acceptable is one party - and a senate majority also representing only a minority of American citizens - purposefully blocking a twice elected president's right and responsibility to appoint justices and then grossly violating the excuse they gave for that despicable act by approving another justice while an election was already started in which everyone including the incumbent knew he would lose.

        1. Outlaw Josey Wales   3 years ago

          You could argue for Goresuch as being stolen using the partisan politics that have woven it's way into our system, but why Barrett? She was confirmed under the rules.

          1. Joe Friday   3 years ago

            She was confirmed under the rules, but both parties in the past had advocated for let the "voters decide" when a vacancy occurred before an election and the GOP claimed that was it's reasoning in the most recent case in 2016.

        2. Red Rocks White Privilege   3 years ago

          Bush's appointments came after he won the popular vote in 2004, you moron.

    3. Joe Friday   3 years ago

      The 50 Republican senators now serving received 63 million votes in their most recent elections, while the 50 Democratic senators were the preference of 87 million voters. That is how it is within the constitution but the a-constitutional filibuster granting even more lopsided minority rule and the abuse of their skinny majorities by GOP senators representing less Americans than the Democrats is not something Americans should tolerate.

      1. virex   3 years ago

        There are lot of idiots in shithole cities. You seem like one of them. This is not a democracy.

      2. Red Rocks White Privilege   3 years ago

        I feel your pain, loser.

      3. Red Rocks White Privilege   3 years ago

        If you're so assmad about the Senate, support a platform that can actually win in more states.

    4. virex   3 years ago

      That’s a lotta words. Too bad I ain’t reading ‘em.

    5. R Mac   3 years ago

      Joe Friday, go fuck yourself.

  68. Jim O'Sullivan   3 years ago

    The author cites Damon Root fro this proposition:

    "Namely, the right to terminate a pregnancy may be justly seen as a subset of the right to bodily integrity. And the right of bodily integrity has a very impressive historical pedigree indeed."

    Yeah. But Alito goes to great length to describe why abortion was never viewed historically as subset. "a subset." Did he even read the draft?

    1. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      Probably stopped where Alito wrote that abortion is not an enumerated right without examining his arguments for why it is not an unenumerated one either.

  69. Joe Friday   3 years ago

    More proof this is a right wing MAGA board, not Libertarian.

    It's a tough question that is thousands of years old. Most here want the government to dictate what women do with their bodies. Let them decide.

    My wife has never had an abortion and never would have, but she is fiercely in favor of having that right for herself and others. Being a NP involved in obstetrics most of her career, she's helped families involved in very difficult choices no one chooses to face. You want your wife forced to give birth to an infant with absolutely no hope of future, who's brief life with be filled with suffering and pain the whole family will be immersed in, including medical costs that can bankrupt them. Oh yeah, I would want my governor to weigh in on what we should do, and backed up by the force of law.

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      Killing kids isn't libertarian, the magical birth-canal fairy doesn't exist and you're anti-science.

      1. Joe Friday   3 years ago

        They're not kids Mother. Mind your business.

        1. virex   3 years ago

          Right, if you leave them alone they become toaster ovens.

        2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          "nuh uh, they r clumps of cells"

          So are kids, so are you.

    2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      Also you're not a god, soothsayer or time-traveler so you have no idea what an unaborted persons life is going to be like, you Moloch-worshipping ghoul.

      1. Joe Friday   3 years ago

        Mother, doctors know when a baby is about to be born without a functioning brain, or other tragic medical conditions.

        Mind your own business.

        1. Joe Friday   3 years ago

          PS If you want the governor in on your decisions, write him a letter.

          1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            Statistically irrelevant red herring you're using to run cover for your ghoulish butchery. A century of abortion law pre-Roe v. Wade made allowances for medical necessity, so why wouldn't it now?

            Also, a holocaust is everybody's business, freakshow.

        2. virex   3 years ago

          Congrats, you’ve uncovered ~2% of all US abortions. Now do the remainder.

          1. Alec Leamas   3 years ago

            The remainder are "YOLO!"

    3. R Mac   3 years ago

      Joe Friday, eat shit bitch.

    4. Red Rocks White Privilege   3 years ago

      More proof this is a right wing MAGA board, not Libertarian.

      More proof that progressives don't want to accept that the majority of the country wants at least some restrictions on the practice.

  70. JasonAZ   3 years ago

    Over/Under on how many days in a row that ENB will mention abortion as it relates to this current situation?

    I'm going with 17 days.

    1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

      4

  71. Marco Tomas   3 years ago

    This title should read: "Journalist--who is not a lawyer--offers legal opinion."

    1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

      Nope "Twitter reader" journalism takes research

    2. Alec Leamas   3 years ago

      It has the hallmarks of a layman offering a passionate political opinion couched as a legal opinion insofar as it rests upon some purported inerrant silver bullet that everyone including the Roe Court - which nearly everyone who has been law trained agrees did its own legal jazz improvisation - just plumb didn't notice until now. The most compelling legal arguments for Roe remaining undisturbed were simply that it was old.

      If we're going to have a right to privacy or "bodily integrity," I think we need to have society-wide conversations about what that is and what it isn't, what its bounds are and so forth and only a broad consensus view should then be considered for Constitutional Amendment. What it can't mean is that the ruling class and its pets get to do whatever they want, and when the shoe is on the other foot they can coerce or force vaccinate adults with a medication developed on an emergent basis eliding the normal drug trials because orange man (he is bad).

  72. virex   3 years ago

    REEEEEEEEE! LET’S MURDER MORE BABIES!!!!

  73. Carter Mitchell   3 years ago

    At least there was legal reasoning unlike the original Roe decision which provided no legal basis for a decision that has ended millions (tens of millions?) of lives.

  74. Bill Falcon   3 years ago

    Sorry ENB..Abortion is not mentioned in the DOI or Bill of Rights. By nature it conflicts with "life" and "liberty"...given once pregnant you are dealing with a "two body" problem. The solution is for the legislature to get off its ass and either legalize it or get an amendment to (which is what the pro abortion folks should have been doing the last 50 years).

    The draft was very very well thought out and as an Italian American..very proud of Big Sam. The knowledge that this will piss off the tribes who hate Italians makes it so much more sweeter. Been a very long time coming...

  75. gd0g   3 years ago

    In response to this analysis, as well as the other article on Reason that seem to push for lots of extra special unennumerated rights, the fact is (and what seemed to be the main push of the opinion) that we do a very poor job at protecting and respecting the rights that actually are ennumerated. 2nd amendment -- don't need that if you have a right to declare a different gender identity and it's discrimination if every state affiliate or program doesn't recognize that? Free speech -- don't need that if the right to be free from listening to things that offend me is being substituted.

    The way forward for our nation and our political system is to stop looking to 9 unelected, life-appointed old intellectuals to say what is due when and where. Because nearly all of these fabricated rights are in some part of parcel a work around or end run around a framework that says: the society must follow procedures for encroaching on any right (other than the ones that are enumerate as involate - those can never be encumbered), and the required procedures are those that are due. It's a brilliant piece of circular logic. But it's led us down a rabbit hole where even for enumerated rights, the Supreme Court has sanctioned the ubiquitous balancing tests that are applied to due process. In fact, due process was never expressly about the utilitarian calculus of balancing harm against benfit, private interest against public interest. That in and of itself was a very early fabrication of the Supreme Court. Due process is a standard that aligns with the contemporary values and expectations of the society as a whole at a given time, in a specific set of circumstances. It is appropriate to be left to the legislative branch to decide and to evolve according to the will of the people who elect them. If it means that in a given time and place, it is not appropriate to every execute someone for a crime, then that is a matter for the legislative branch. Why should it be any different when the offender suffers from a mental infrimity (Atkins v. Virginia... note however that they did not use due process to rule, instead they used "cruel and unusual punishment", but the point is the same - a subject standard such a "cruel and unusual" is not something that 9 lifetime appointees should wield control over - it is the quintessential expression of the values of a society according to who they have elected, as well as what they have expressly, by super-majority, included in their federal and state Constitutions).

  76. COINTELPRO   3 years ago

    Alexander Hamilton - the designer and architect of the American Justice system - believed that in court cases “precedent” (previous rulings by higher courts) should almost always supersede current court cases EXCEPT if a precedent were “unconstitutional”.

    Hamilton believed “constitutionality” should supersede even deeply entrenched “precedent” from past court rulings.

    There are basically two types of issues:
    “Voter Issues” versus “Court [constitutional rights] Issues”. Voters issues are democratic and popular with the majority of voters, since politicians are trying to win popular elections.

    “Court/Rights Issues” are not always popular with the majority of voters and hierarchical - higher courts dictating to lower courts. State officials assuming ownership over our bodies is absolutely a “rights” issue.

  77. Alec Leamas   3 years ago

    Finally, the correct legal take on the matter by someone with a degree in theater and a certificate in nutrition. What ever would be do without you, ENB?

  78. Alec Leamas   3 years ago

    "If we act in bad faith to define this very discrete, prohibited act with vast moral dimensions to be indistinguishable from a broad range of human activity including farting, we can see that the Court messed this one up. I am smart."

    Funny then that the Court in Roe didn't rest its reasoning on this alleged well-worn right to "bodily integrity" plainly within the Constitution and predating it in Anglo-American law for centuries, isn't it? If only ENB had been around in 1973 to inform the Justices of this, they wouldn't have had to monkey around with secret decoder rings to read the marginalia hidden between Amendments in the Bill of Rights.

    Further, "integrity" is defined as the state of being whole and undivided, so to the extent that an abortion is simply removing a woman's own tissue it is dividing her and making her less than the whole she was immediately before - ergo, this is not a matter of a right to "integrity," but a made up right to the opposite being a right to "disunity" or "disintegration."

    Here Endeth the Lesson.

  79. AltheDago   3 years ago

    Say what you will about this draft, it would have to be much worse to be as poorly reasoned as Roe. And bear in mind that, regardless of any opinions to the contrary, the Federal police power really doesn't extend to regulating abortion. Or a lot of other things the general government does that would horrify the founders.

  80. XM   3 years ago

    If we recognize the fetus (at a certain stage) as an early person, then the left has to eat their own standard on vaccine mandates. Your autonomy can be sacrificed when it affects the health and wellbeing of others - or so the argument goes.

    As others have noted, most of the world either bans abortion outright or put restriction beyond 12 weeks. Recognition of the fetus as more than "clump of cells" in pretty much a global standard, putting them on par with some red states. Also fun fact - most of the nations adapt Trump's vision of immigration, including Canada. But the public schools are broken and libs operate out of a fantasy world where Sweden is a socialist success story.

    Do libertarians believe in autonomy of individuals without a voice? They should, right? Their support of illegal immigration is rooted almost entirely on morality, not reason.

    I trust that no one here has ever bought the left's selective mania over "autonomy". These are the same people who lose their minds over a white woman donned a Afro hairstyle. If a black man tried to go Michael Jackson and lighten his skin color, they would be foaming at the mouth.

    I would support abortion barbies giving away their citizenship to migrant mothers before leaving for Iran, where they can wear the hijab for the rest of their lives. The nation would be much, much better off.

  81. Greg J   3 years ago

    What a pathetic hot mess

    1: There is no US government recognized right to "bodily integrity". See Covid vaccine mandates and Covid passports, all inflicted by a Democrat President and Democrat Governors, and all supported by Breyer, Kagan, and Sotomayor

    2: "This 17th-18th century understanding would mean upholding Roe, and disallowing Dobbs," notes Brewer. "So Alito then says the common law somehow must have made abortion illegal before quickening — without a shred of evidence."
    What a pathetic lie. Alito addressed that very question, I've written out part of it here: https://gregquark.blogspot.com/2022/05/alito-on-how-blackstone-and-hale-show.html

    tl;dr: If you gave a woman an abortificant and she died, you were guilty of murder, because if you try to murder Person A, but accidentally kill B instead, your illegal intent with the first person carries over to the second. And this held any time a woman was "with child", not just when she was "with quick child"
    Thus abortion was always illegal.

    3: Jason Kuznicki, editor in chief of the think tank TechFreedom, takes issue with the idea that rights must be "deeply rooted in history" in order to be valid.
    Well, Jason is a pro-dictatorship thug, who thinks that people he likes who are on SCOTUS have the "right" to rewrite our laws at will.

    You want a new right added to the Constitution? No problem!
    Get a Constitutional Amendment passed, and it's in.
    Getting 5 oath violating scum bags to "create" it, OTOH, is not a legitimate path

    You are pathetic

  82. Uomo Del Ghiaccio   3 years ago

    It is important to remember that it was the First Draft of the opinion that was released. When I have a document that I'm releasing, I often go through multiple versions.

    I'm confident that justices who eventually sign any opinion or dissent will have input and and influence over the final documents. Complaining over a first draft is complaining about something that will never be.

    When I version a document it because I have found a better way to express myself, make a subject clearer. Typically a first draft is not just to remove typos and bad grammar, but rather to improve the delivery of the subject.

  83. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

    I've noticed that, Goldilicks GorillaShit! NO data, and NO logic will persuade Goldilicks GorillaShit of ANYTHING that Goldilicks GorillaShit does not WANT to believe!

  84. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

    We are all dead in the long run! Given the chance, I'll take some totalitarians with me!

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