Gun-Maker Remington Settles with Sandy Hook Families Over Alleged Liability for Misuse of Weapon They Made
A settlement means no official legal precedent is set, but holding gun sellers responsible for crimes of gun users could harm Americans' ability to enjoy their Second Amendment rights.

In December 2012, Adam Lanza used guns to murder 26 people, 20 of them children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut. Today, after eight years of legal wrangling, Remington, the gun company that manufactured one of the weapons he used, settled a lawsuit by paying $73 million to a group of families of victims and one survivor that claimed the gun company bore legal responsibility for Lanza's criminal misuse of the weapon it made.
The plaintiffs insisted that Remington violated Connecticut's Unfair Trade Practices Act (CUTPA) by stressing its rifles' "militaristic and assaultive qualities" in its marketing. Thus the company should legally bear responsibility for Lanza (unlike nearly every other gun purchaser) using the weapon to kill other people. Various other arguments the plaintiffs tried to use to hold Remington responsible for Lanza's actions were rejected by Connecticut's Supreme Court in 2019, but the one based on CUTPA remained.
This reliance on the Connecticut law was important, as Jacob Sullum reported at Reason in November 2019 when the U.S. Supreme Court declined an appeal from Remington to stop the suit, since that law in theory allowed them to:
get around the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA), a 2005 federal law that generally protects gun manufacturers and distributors from liability for criminal uses of their products. The CUTPA claim is based on one of the exceptions made by the PLCAA, which allows lawsuits alleging that "a manufacturer or seller of a qualified product knowingly violated a State or Federal statute applicable to the sale or marketing of the product, and the violation was a proximate cause of the harm for which relief is sought."…
The National Shooting Sports Foundation, an industry group that asked the U.S. Supreme Court to take up this case, notes that the plaintiffs have not offered any evidence that Lanza or his mother, who bought the rifle he used, was "influenced in any way by any advertisement," let alone that advertising precipitated the mass shooting or made it deadlier. As the Connecticut Supreme Court itself observed while allowing the lawsuit to proceed, "proving such a causal link at trial may prove to be a Herculean task."
Remington's choice to settle today eliminated the need for rigorous proof in court of that causal link.
Burdening an entity with legal liability for the criminal actions of its customers is an unusual legal principle. It offends the standard sense of justice, seeing as Remington did not do anything to harm those families specifically. It merely sold a product that someone else used to do harm, in the same way that any number of common items sold innocently in America could be used to intentionally or accidentally harm others. (Automobiles, for example, are these days involved in over 40,000 deaths each year, whereas rifles are typically involved in just hundreds.)
Despite Remington agreeing to settle, there are sound legal reasons to not hold an entity—that did not make any choice that directly caused harm to others—responsible for the harmful actions its customers may commit. The Second Amendment guarantees a legal right to keep and bear arms, at least for self-defense in the home. This right would be hobbled if gun manufacturers regularly faced liability for the guns they sold being used to harm others. (And guns' ability to harm others, like it or not, is why they are valuable for self-defense and, thus, why the government is prohibited from banning them).
The weapons Remington manufactures and sells are not inherently dangerous absent criminal or negligent actions by the people that buy them. This is made obvious by the fact that the overwhelming majority of the nearly 400 million privately owned firearms in the U.S. never harm anyone at all. Guns can be, and almost always are, used in responsible and harmless ways. Nothing inherent in Remington's making and marketing of them directly harms anyone.
New York state's S.B. 7196, made law last year, also makes it easier in civil litigation to hold gun suppliers responsible for the actions of gun users. To be free of liability, gun-makers must "utilize reasonable controls and procedures" to ensure that the weapons they sell are not used unlawfully, even though most gun crimes are committed by people who did not obtain their guns legally.
Despite Remington's choice to settle the Sandy Hook case, there is little manufacturers can do to prevent their guns from being misused by criminals besides not making them at all, which is exactly what the activists cheering on this settlement want.
Remington filed for bankruptcy protection in 2020 and made a rejected $33 million settlement offer last July. Remington's insurers will be on the hook for today's payoff.
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Complete horseshit. Product Liability is in case the product is illegal or it doesn't function correctly.
It's not because someone used your legally well-made product to do something bad.
Nothing more than anti-gun fascists trying to be little fascists.
Waiting for someone to try suing Sears because person A bashed person B over the head with a Craftsman hammer.
Well hammers are inherently dangerous objects, and will be all the more so once guns are abolished [if this sounds hyperbolic just check out Great Britain:
https://reason.com/2019/01/30/buying-a-hammer-the-uk-worries-that-migh/
Oy, you got a loysence for that ‘ammer?
I make 85 dollars each hour for working an online job at home. KLA I never thought I could do it but my best friend makes 10000 bucks every month working this job and she recommended me to learn more about it. The potential with this is endless.
For more detail …. http://rb.gy/u603ti
Actually, the Beatles should be sued, for promoting hammer misuse.
Gun-Maker Remington Settles with Sandy Hook Families Over Alleged Liability for Misuse of Weapon They Made
So the Sandy Hook families made a weapon then sued Remington over it? That's what this headline seems to be saying. 😉
We should now sue internet companies for selling out info to outside agencies.
The reason guns are in the second amendment is to shoot other people, not hunting or sport, or even (small time) self defense. It is defense against tyrrany and a government that would take away such defense.
So as rude as such militaristic ads may be, that is closer to the real reason than hunting or target practice.
So I have my doubts about the long term success of this strategy.
Joe Biden announced Job opportunity for everyone! Work from comfort of your home open this web site....... VISIT HERE FOR FULL DETAIL.
Return to political norms! Thanks Obama and Biden for appointing judges that legislate from the bench! It's the will of the people, even if they are too stupid to recognize it themselves! /sarc
"Return to political norms?" Politicians wanting to disarm the peaceful has always been the norm.
Incidentally, platform owners shouldn't be help responsible for users who misuse their platforms by writing things that aren't true about other people either. If you want to go after someone for violating your rights, you should go after the person who actually violated your rights--regardless of whether we're talking about Remington and a mass shooter, Budweiser and a drunk driver, or Facebook and a serial defamer. It's the same principle.
Incidentally, Ken likes to conveniently forget the tyranny of the majority and defend things not because they're right, or just, or even fall inside or outside the bounds of the law, The Constitution, or common sense, but for no other reason than "It's really popular." even if the really popular thing to do is obviously a crime or unConstitutional prima facie.
Incidentally, any issues between platform owners and users who misuse their platform while exercising free speech is an explicitly judicial one.
Incidentally, no one, but no one, calling for platform users to be held responsible for the result of free speech is calling for the end of all social media, much less the posting of speech on line.
Incidentally, Ken will portray a direct series of causes and effects as though they were just tangentially related incidents that have nothing do with each other or any underlying unConstitutional conduct that might undermine things he thinks are popular.
Incidentally, he will do the opposite in his favor by comparing Remington's and Budweiser's ownership and control over their products to Facebook's control over theirs.
calling for platform/users
Ken is right and Casually Mad is wrong!
"Punish person or entity A for the doings of person or entity B" is ENTIRELY wrong, stupid, counter-productive, unjust, and usually even EVIL! Period! Whether 1A, or 2A, or related to ANYTHING! I can NOT think of any exceptions!
Casually Mad, I hope they do not punish YOU for what I have written! But if that is what MUST happen before you can understand the inherent injustices here, with this kind of thing, then I am OK with it!
Actually, all I'm saying is that the responsibility for a violation of someone's rights only belongs to the rights violator, and that this principle transcends whatever issue you want to talk about--whether we're talking about gun manufacturers, beer brewers, platform providers, or something else. There's nothing convoluted about my assertion that the person who is held responsible for a crime should be the one who committed the crime. I'm just citing a simple principle and applying it universally. You're the one doing somersaults, bending over backwards, and playing Twister to get things how you want them to be.
Good job Ken!!!
this principle transcends whatever issue you want to talk about
Even itself? Regardless of owners, users, manufacturers, etc., I'm shot, against my will, by three separate people and die, who violated my rights?
You're pretending an overly simplistic model, a model so stupidly simplistic that the FF spelled out how complicated it was and strove to clarify the complexity, as simple in your own favor.
"I'm shot, against my will, by three separate people and die, who violated my rights? You're pretending an overly simplistic model"
There isn't anything overly simplistic about saying that the only people who should be held responsible for shooting you are the people who shot you.
you should go after the person
...
the only people who should be held responsible
The person should be held responsible or the people? Are you now saying that multiple people can be involved in a rights violation? I don't want to put words in your mouth so please feel free to expound.
If you wanted help expanding on your inconsistency, I'd even go so far as to say that the number of perpetrators is largely irrelevant and someone who openly exerts control over their product and the delivery of any messages is at least marginally more responsible than the people who only exert control over their platforms and projectiles in the case of defect.
But then, I'm just playing doing plain-text, literal-reading somersaults, bending over backwards, and playing Twister to get things how I want them to be. Which, incidentally, is not suing arms manufacturers for the actions of their customers or preventing people from speaking on the internet.
>>>Are you now saying that multiple people can be involved in a rights violation?
three separate rights violations.
Three separate crimes.
So, to get restitution, my NOK would have to file three or 10,000 separate cases? Even if there's an overarching entity that says "We are responsible for the targeted delivery anything and everything on our platform."?
Note that Ken goes even further and sloppier leaving three murder verdicts for one death as a valid criminal outcome.
It really is astounding the long-settled ground you guys will retread and salt in order to defend S230 and not the PLCA. You guys do realize that Remington was being sued for advertising to Lanza, right?
>>you guys
I only answered your rights violations.
And you answered incorrectly. It's not like class action is a new concept. Group litigation is as old as the Magna Carta.
Presuming you didn't consent to be shot, the three who shot you all committed crimes. Even if only one killed you, the other two may have injured you or precipitated weakening you for the final shot.
Now whether a DA could successfully convict all three for murder one is another matter entirely beyond this post.
Up to 2 of the shooters also might be justly convicted of corpse abuse.
Now whether a DA could successfully convict all three for murder one is another matter entirely beyond this post.
Do DAs generally handle civil suits? I thought we were talking about anti-2A advocates suing an arms manufacturer for running ads and you guys using it to defend social media's explicitly exclusive shielding from such culpability.
Words on the internet do not equal bullets going into your body.
Publishing an ad that portrays your product putting bullets into someone's body, an ad you published while rejecting others, does equal publishing words on the internet, if you've published those words while rejecting others, though.
So if someone puts bullets in my body and the government shows up and takes their guns away, their rights haven't been violated? Is that what you're saying?
Or are you saying that because overwhelmingly, one person is responsible for discharging a gun while, typically, several people are involved in publishing things on the internet the two acts are fundamentally different. Like if I aimed the gun at someone and had you pull the trigger, I would be both civilly and criminally innocent because guns are fundamentally different than speech? Or would you be guilty of murder and I an accessory? Or, as Ken suggests, two murder charges for one death?
More overarching, why all the contortion and selective nonsensical refutation to defend S230 and/or parse it from or tear down the PLCAA? Is it because Facebook needs or deserves S230 protection and Jewelers, Bakers, and Arms Manufacturers don't?
I'm shot, against my will, by three separate people and die, who violated my rights?
The Mayor who de-funded the police and then told her constituents that you were an irremediably racist fascist who stole their past, present, and future.
Legal systems recognize that harm is rarely caused by just a single actor; it often involves contributions from multiple actors, both by acts of commission and omission.
You aren't citing a "simple principle" at all. Who is a "rights violator" is a complex legal question, and courts generally recognize that people who host content may contribute to the violation of other people's rights. If courts and our legal tradition didn't recognize that, we wouldn't have Section 230.
The purpose of Section 230 is to exempt from prosecution people who our courts would, based on legal tradition, recognize as "rights violators". And I have yet to hear a good reason for why such exemptions should be granted.
No matter HOW many times you tell your “Big Lie”, it is NOT true! You’re part of the mob, aren’t you, gangster? For a small fee, you tell small businesses that you will “protect” them… From you and your mob! Refute the below, ye greedy authoritarian who wants to shit all over the concept of private property!
Look, I’ll make it pretty simple for simpletons. A prime argument of enemies of Section 230 is, since the government does such a HUGE favor for owners of web sites, by PROTECTING web site owners from being sued (in the courts of Government Almighty) as a “publisher”, then this is an unfair treatment of web site owners! Who SHOULD (lacking “unfair” section 230 provisions) be able to get SUED for the writings of OTHER PEOPLE! And punished by Government Almighty, for disobeying any and all decrees from Government Almighty’s courts, after getting sued!
In a nutshell: Government Almighty should be able to boss around your uses of your web site, because, after all, Government Almighty is “protecting” you… From Government Almighty!!!
Wow, just THINK of what we could do with this logic! Government Almighty is “protecting” you from getting sued in matters concerning who you chose to date or marry… In matters concerning what line of work you chose… What you eat and drink… What you read… What you think… Therefore, Government Almighty should be able to boss you around on ALL of these matters, and more! The only limits are the imaginations and power-lusts of politicians!
No matter how often you quote from "Mein Kampf", I won't take you seriously either.
Therefore, Government Almighty should be able to boss you around on ALL of these matters, and more! The only limits are the imaginations and power-lusts of politicians!
This is where YOUR "logic" leads... NOT mine! Totalitarian!
SQRLSY the fascist presumes to lecture others on totalitarianism. Funny.
Refute the facts that I have shown in your "logic fail" (of YOURS) that I have pointed out, Oh Empty-Headed Arrogant Marxist Wonder Child!
You have NOTHING but insults to offer, in return for my bullet-proof fact-driven logic! Worship Government Almighty (and The Collective Hive), some MORE, collectivist, and give us some MORE pathetic and incoherent excuses!
You haven't uttered a fact on this platform... forever.
You do keep quoting "Mein Kampf".
And I have yet to hear a good reason for why such exemptions should be granted.
You mean the explicitly-stated reason of holding people who don't moderate responsible for the speech they don't moderate isn't good enough?
Correct, that's not good enough.
For example, Napster didn't moderate the content it hosted, but it was still guilty of contributory infringement.
Why should Facebook or Reason be treated any differently?
That proves nothing except someone decided they’re guilty. It doesn’t prove they should have been guilty. And that’s the whole point of the discussion. If a court uses some sort of twisted logic to find that you are guilty of defamation for responding to mad.casual, does that mean you SHOULD have been found guilty?
If a court uses some sort of twisted logic to find that you are guilty of defamation for responding to mad.casual, does that mean you SHOULD have been found guilty?
Is that the legislatures' job? I could maybe see it being the case when The Constitution says, "The government shall not infringe on this right." and many, many Mayors, Governors, and Statesmen say "Fuck that noise." and start deciding Gun Manufacturers are guilty up front. Even at that, courts can dismiss with prejudice. But to head off the vague hordes of trolls? Especially when, on the latter issue The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law." and jurisprudence? GTFO.
Napster was allowing copyright violations. Section 230 is more about liability, or, for that matter, doing a terrible job moderating according to your own self-published standards.
Which is pretty much saying "It's OK to hold people who are not actively participating in the distribution culpable when it's copyright violation, but not when it's other forms of speech."
Again, do you guys think you're giving the impression of a principled stance against actions they themselves didn't take or in defense of the Constitution, or do you think it looks like you're, without any particular bias whatsoever, just making it all up as you go along?
"Incidentally, no one, but no one, calling for platform users to be held responsible for the result of free speech is calling for the end of all social media, much less the posting of speech on line."
Really? Tell that to Pelosi. Wasn't the entire impeachment try for Jan. 6th about holding a "platform user" for the result of "free speech"?
In a libertarian society and legal system, "platform owners" of course can be held responsible for what people put on their platforms, depending on a level of responsibility determined by the courts on a case-by-case basis.
Why should there be "platform owners" at all? Why should discussion sections like Reason's exist at all? They are a bad technical solution and wouldn't exist in a libertarian society.
You're like someone living in a socialist country defending state ownership of the means of production because you can't imagine any alternatives.
Well if platform owners didn't exist, then platforms wouldn't either, since everything on Earth is owned by someone. And if that were the case and Reason Comments sections wouldn't exist, where would you be now?
Noy-Boy-Toy would be pussy-grabbing all the "libs", and forcing THEIR posts to be taken DOWN, while Noy-Boy-Toy's posts would stay UP! "Karma", "what goes around, comes around", "what's good for the goose, is good for the gander", "the rule of law and not of men"... ALL of these things stand in the way of Noy-Boy-Toy pussy-grabbing the libs, so we'll just ignore all of these concepts!
Oh, good, S230 has undefined the word 'platform' to include any ownership of any kind. I don't own my car, I'm a platform for it. Man, just when I think Reason is the sole source of fundamentally unprincipled libertarians...
Good! It's high time we get rid of platforms again, and the social media and publishing monopolies the entail.
But the Reason comment section would exist. It would simply not be a "platform" and it wouldn't be owned or managed by Reason.
It would be owned and managed by "All is for The Glorious Hive" Marxists like Noy-Boy-Toy! Ass long ass Noy-Boy-Toy can pussy-grab the "libs", nothing else matters!!
You got it backwards, SQRLSY one: you demand platforms that are managed by "All is for The Glorious Hive" Marxists like you. That's why you keep repeating the propaganda of Google, Facebook, and other supporters of Section 230.
I prefer solutions in which everybody publishes and owns their own content.
Right from up top right here... Reason says you own your own content that you post right here... for FREE!!! Yet YOU, greedy asshole, wants to shut Reason DOWN, by your own admission!!! FREE is NOT good enough for YOU, totalitarian jerk!!!
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.
NOYB2
February.15.2022 at 6:05 pm
Blah-blah-blah...
But the Reason comment section would exist. It would simply not be a "platform" and it wouldn't be owned or managed by Reason.
End Noy-Boy-Toy Marxist bullshit...
FREE posting on Reason's web site (with Noy-Boy-Toy the Marxist STILL owning the bullshit that Noy-Boy-Toy posts) is NOT enough for greedy asshole Noy-Boy-Toy the Marxist!!!
Evil is insatiable... Often called the "unquenchable thirst"... ALL power over ALL beings in the Multiverse will NOT sate this "unquenchable thirst"!!! Give it UP, Noy-Boy-Toy the Marxist!!!
Those who worship the money-power-status variety of “success” would be well served by listening to the words of “The Boss”, AKA Bruce Springsteen… From the song “Badlands”, which is an anthem to the pursuit of TRUE happiness:
Poor man wanna be rich,
Rich man wanna be king,
And a king ain’t satisfied,
Till he rules everything!
Rule EVERYTHING? Really?!? Nah! Not gonna happen! So this mentality is a sure-fire guarantee for dissatisfaction, for unhappiness. Be ye then meek instead of wild, untamed, aggressive, and greedy!
Ah, yes, the same argument people like you used to justify the Soviet Union: "the socialist state gives you all this stuff for FREE and you greedy asshole still aren't satisfied".
Yes, that's the mantra of Google, Facebook, and Twitter, and you support them in maintaining their authoritarian dominance.
Pay for 51% of the stock of Google, Facebook, and Twitter, and THEN you may boss them around, greedy, power-mad Marxist!
Also this: Hey whining crybaby… I pay (PAY! With MY money! I OWN!) for my own web site at Go-Daddy. I say some VERY sarcastic and un-politically-correct, intolerant things about cults like Scientology there (and Government Almighty as well). I am QUITE sure that a LOT of “tolerant” liberal-type folks at Google etc. would NOT be happy with the types of things I wrote! Yet, if you do a search-string “Scienfoology”, Google will take you STRAIGHT to MY web site, top hit! #1!
https://www.google.com/search?q=scienfoology&nfpr=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPzZqf0dXsAhUCT6wKHez9DNwQvgUoAXoECDEQKg&biw=1920&bih=941
Your whining and crying is (just about ) UTTERLY without basis!
WHERE is your respect for property rights?! I learned to respect the property rights of others, before I was in the 1st grade! Didn’t your Momma raise you right, Marxist?
Why should there be "platform owners" at all? Why should discussion sections like Reason's exist at all? They are a bad technical solution and wouldn't exist in a libertarian society.
It's arguable that they aren't even a technical solution, but a legal one. People could host their own websites prior to 1997 and the advent of truly content-agnostic automation of the full stack from platforms, CMSs, frameworks, and management portals (everything from Django, WordPress, Wix, Plesk, cPanel, Ansible, Jenkins, Git, etc., etc.) have made actual self-ownership hosting more feasible. Arguably, social media is a self-licking ice cream cone where the only reason to get involved is to get S230 shielding and eyeballs from everyone else who thinks the same shielding is a great idea.
Moreover, it would be one thing if it were just a community of shielding advocates among themselves, but it isn't. They actively purge people from their own platforms and then go on to purge them from other platforms that are more intrinsically agnostic and federated.
What about the guy who drove through the parade in Kenosha? Is the car manufacturer equally responsible?
Same principle, but of course different objects. Makes all the difference, apparently.
Well, there is the insignificant difference of the US Constitution.
Remember it?
"The Second Amendment guarantees a legal right to keep and bear arms, at least for self-defense, in the home. This right would be hobbled if gun manufacturers regularly faced liability for the guns they sold being used to harm others."
Which is precisely what they have set out to do.
Also, different skin tones of the perpetrators.
Oh, but the SUV drivers are typically Karens and Chads, so they're special. Kenosha was just a one-off to them. 😉
Remington is stupid their lawyers tried to subpena the kids school report cards which has nothing to do with the case and just make people even madder at Remington. this settlement is admittance of guilt and will now open doors for more actions against gun makers.
Stupid stupid Stup........
Yep; they bailed on a case that supposedly involved "proving such a causal link [between their advertising and the shooting] at trial may prove to be a Herculean task."
In doing so they have opened a literal opening to the ruin of an entire industry; if the PLCA allows for such an end run depending upon State law, what would the remedy be?
what would the remedy be?
The Supreme Court growing a pair and telling those suing to fuck off. The gun manufacturer is 5 steps removed from a victim of gun violence.
1) purchase of a firearm
2) purchase of ammunition
3) loading of the firearm
4) confronting a person with the firearm
5) pulling the trigger
Someone else has volition at every single step that has nothing to do with the manufacturer putting anyone in harm's way.
A child playing with a firearm is still 3 steps removed if you don't count them as having volition in the last 2 steps.
Of course, my premise is based on the idea that people make their own decisions and are responsible for them.
Did they hire the Rittenhouse lawyers?
My guess is Remington is up for a big government contract and was given a choice of settling or lose it. Like most weapons manufacturers of size they make a lot more from these contracts than private sales so screw the little guys.
My guess is Remington is up for a big government contract and was given a choice of settling or lose it.
^Assumes that the only way The Mafia gets what they want is with carrots/bribes and that they'd never use the stick against one legitimate business that supports them in favor of another legitimate business that supports them.
Between 2013 and 2019, Remington has lost all bids with the Armed Forces to develop new weapons and has had all current models slated for obsolescence. They were losing them before that but, at this point, AFAIK/UI Remington is under no contracts to produce arms for the military. It's possible there are some Special Operations groups contracting them for parts or relatively limited production runs but the military has been avoiding Remington for a while. Quite possibly because of this issue.
They're avoiding them because Remington hasn't made quality products in a couple of decades now. They've changed hands several times and had several bankruptcies, and that's because they keep trying to sell shit products in a very crowded market. There's no good reason to buy a Remington product.
I'm sure the lawsuit didn't help, but anyone with half a clue was avoiding Remington before Sandy Hook even happened.
Half of me wants to say I completely agree. The other half wants to say "Yeah, because the military would never by massive amounts of below-market-grade shit from the lowest common bidder in perpetuity."
And you're right that that's usually what "mil-spec" means. Remington never adjusted prices in accordance with their drop in quality though so I doubt they were ever the cheapest choice.
That company was also bankrupt so often that I doubt they could afford to grease the right palms for the military procurement process to work in their favor.
I'd say boycott Remington, but I don't think there are that many people in the market for a shitty .22.
Remington didn't settle, their multiple insurance companies with exposed excess policies settled. Business decision that gets a claim off the books, cuts off the endless attorney's fees and eliminates risk. Pure risk management call. Principles are never a consideration with insurance.
They're not AVOIDING Remington, they are letting contracts to companies which provide the desired products for less cost.
There isn't much difference between one M4 and another, other than how the words are spelled on the side of the lower receiver. Low bid wins.
Not entirely clear on how this is substantially different than what I said. Much less how, absent you being a high ranking military official, you would know the distinct motivation.
It mentioned that it was Remington's Insurance Company that settled. Not Remington.
A while back a man was injured by a machine that I helped design. He removed two guards and disabled two interlock switches so that he could get a faster cycle time. That enabled him to get a weekly bonus. Any one of the guards or interlocks would have prevented the accident. Our insurance company settled out of Court. Court isn't about facts or right and wrong these days. It's about politics and public opinion. Overlawyered had a post about a Grandmother suing her Grandson over her getting hit with a baseball. In reality it was one insurance company suing another.
I seriously hope everyone of the families tripped and fell down the courthouse stairs.
If they settled then that means they are admitting some measure of culpability.
Nope. They are paying a bribe to stop wasting time with this.
Once you pay The Danegeld, you are never rid of the Dane.
Right, because no one ever settles because it’s the least costly alternative. Never happens.
I had a buddy whose wife was being sued. She wss driving down a busy street when a car full of people pulled out in front of her and she rear ended them.
This was a scam those people and lawyers had run before. Anyway, they sued, saying she could have chosen to pull into oncoming traffic and taken a head on instead.
Somehow 3 insurance companies were involved. 2 wanted to settle but the third had a policy of fighting this crap to the death.
I don't know the outcome but my buddy was worried about being on the hook for something if the insurance company lost.
but holding gun sellers responsible for crimes of gun users could harm Americans' ability to enjoy their Second Amendment rights
Which is the intention, of course.
The plaintiffs insisted that Remington violated Connecticut's Unfair Trade Practices Act (CUTPA) by stressing its rifles' "militaristic and assaultive qualities" in its marketing. Thus the company should legally bear responsibility for Lanza
Even though they didn't sell the gun to him. It was his mother's gun, and she didn't shoot up a school with it.
Yeah it's hard to even draw a line to the company at all here. WTF.
The compare/contrast is astoudning given Meta and Alphabet who, for a decade, have touted the ability to target ads to customers.
Activist Judge portraying the image of taking on an evil gun company. Should play well to the Leftist crowd.
I don't remember seeing any commercials by gun manufactures where they promote going around shooting people, even their advertisements in gun magazines don't do that.
The Second Amendment doesn't grant rights. It protects them from government.
The Second Amendment doesn't grant rights. It protects them from government.
Good thing the First Amendment protects repetition!
Good thing the First Amendment protects repetition!
(Somehow the 2nd A doesn't do a good job of protecting me owning affordable repeating rifles, though. I must pay off the endless army of parasitical lawyers before I can buy a repeating rifle. WTF?)
Oh, yes, and also this...
Good thing the First Amendment protects repetition!
And don't forget!
Good thing the First Amendment protects repetition!
Technically the First Amendment is repetition itself. It reinforces rights as understood, lest they be considered unenumerated, and hence at risk of being abridged by inevitable neo-tyrants.
The philosophical choice was if they listed it, future politicians would claim those are the only rights, and no unenumerated rights exist, or not listing it and risking abridgement.
Both fears were right. Politicians constantly push to expand their power, and are presumptively up to no good.
Repeating rifles will now no longer be affordable at all!
Repeating keyboards and copy-paste functions ARE still affordable (see above), and thank Government Almighty for THAT much!
However, ass soon ass the assholes (judges and slutty lawyers, and politicians too) take away Section 230, affordable repeating repeating repeating repeating keyboards will be taken away from us peons as well!!!
They're all worth saying twice, especially since that is Pudding Cup Joe's MO.
They're all worth saying twice, especially since that is Pudding Cup Joe's MO!!!
In a sane world, yes.
Unfortunately we live in the reality with a bunch of Tony’s running around with their hair on fire or running the government. Sometimes both.
So in this case the PLCA allowed an "exception" as it involved a violation of State law, specifically "the Connecticut Unfair Trade Practices Act (CUTPA) by marketing the Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle used by the perpetrator, Adam Lanza, in a way that emphasized its "militaristic and assaultive qualities."
So now, at least in CT and now NY which has a similar law, there will be a flurry of lawsuits against manufacturers for such "negligent entrustment." As I recall it was Lanza's mother who bought the firearm, and he killed her and took it to commit his mass murder.
So now, at least in CT and now NY which has a similar law, there will be a flurry of lawsuits against manufacturers for such "negligent entrustment."
The showdown between LAPD SWAT and the State of NY over the factory in Yonkers could get interesting.
Double vision. Whoah.
~~ begins suit against Dodge for Charlotte.
With the way they show people driving vehicles in advertising I would t be surprised if that suit won as well.
>>Remington's insurers will be on the hook for today's payoff.
jury doesn't know they're sticking it to Lloyd's of Llondon.
And going forward all such policies with gun manufacturers will be cancelled. Remington just fucked over everyone. Even if this suit was adjudicated with prejudice, it opens a door for anyone, at least in CT and NY, to follow.
I mean if the insurance company agreed to pay for voluntary settlements, they kinda deserve this.
I can see providing insurance against adverse court findings. Providing insurance to people who agree to just give up and cut a check is a different story.
Remington didn’t give up. The insurance company did. When an insurance company is on the hook, they handle the case.
Looking forward to the lawsuit against that SUV maker responsible for all those dead grannies at the christmas parade
That never happened.
Why the hell did they settle??? The plaintiffs had no case. Adam Lanza wasn't affected by advertising because he didn't buy the gun. He stole the guns his mother had legally bought.
They settled because they wanted to end the whole thing.
It won't work, but that was their intent.
Too bad -- they just bought themselves a massive amount of ill will from gun buyers. The Ruger people can tell them about that, after Bill Ruger supported the Ugly Gun Ban in the 1990s, trying to get government contracts by saying that the people who had made him rich shouldn't be allowed to own many of the guns they had bought from him. Ruger sales plummeted (even in their own city), and didn't start improving until Bill took the Dirt Nap.
The people who settled aren't gun manufacturers. It worked as far as they are concerned: this liability is off their books and the headache is gone.
Yeah, stupid. The whole suit was absurd.
I'm probably hopelessly naïve here, but how the hell does a case like this even make it to trial? Isn't there some mechanism to filter out ridiculous absurdities like this?
There would be, if judges were doing their fucking jobs.
The courts are corrupt.
Remington doesn't exist anymore; they went bankrupt, have been chopped up and sold off.
The people who ended up inheriting this liability (I guess the insurance companies) won't ever sell guns. So they simply have no interest or stake in the outcome, they just want this to go away, quickly and at a manageable cost.
They do, however, possibly insure other gun companies, and also lots of other stuff.
Government threatens them, and banks, for dealing with gun companies by winking and saying your reputation suffers and you may lose government contracts. They cannot do this legally, "but you know."
Anyway there may be more here than just the risk of one case.
Public opinion.
Disgusting. Time to start suing auto manufacturers for all the accidents, then.
This settlement is precisely why we need reforms to protect individuals and legal entities from malicious lawsuits. Legal trolls know that with enough resources, you can bully someone into settlement as the amount settled would otherwise be greatly outpaced by the cost of litigation.
I can't imagine a reasonable or easily proven standard, but I think there should be some type of provision for a 'lawsuit with malice' like this that was clearly intended to hurt Remington and accomplish no other objective. It is morally analogous to blackmail and should be a felony offense. It's also quite ironic that a group of victims suing a gun manufacturer just proved that the pen is mightier than the sword.
As others have noted the Remington of today is a far cry from the Remington of when Sandy Hook happened and only a shadow of the company that produced the M40 made famous back in the day. Even back then a Remington 700 made before 1964 was a far higher quality weapon than the later models; and don't even try and excuse what Remington is now selling.
Not to mention that the settlement was a legal decision to minimize bad PR and stop the bleeding from endless legal fees. While I still don't get how a suit could get as far as this one has gotten I have to think it is the result of accounts and lawyers ignoring everything but the bottom line. Problem with that is the previous Remington bankruptcies means their bottom line has not been all that great for some time.
In some ways I look at this like the demise of Stanly Steamer. It was a fairly good automobile that was overtaken by better products that were cheaper to buy and went the way of the dodo bird; something Remington seems to be doing.
the 'Remington' you say is a 'shadow of itself' is no more actually than a ghost.
That 'Remington' went bankrupt and all the assets were sold off.
A new group of investors company which bought the Ilion NY property (and the rights to the trade name 'Remington'), is in business and producing new rifles and shotguns right now.
This is standard policy that stems from the 'sue the deepest pockets' rule. The gun maker may not have the deepest pockets but they are the target of vindictive people which makes them the target. I think the reason they didn't go after the school or town is probably because there are local taxpayer involved with the suit who didn't want to be shunned by their neighbors and didn't want to move out.
There are tons of examples where someone sues a large company for something they had no actual liability in but a jury is always going to feel bad for the victim regardless of who was actually at fault as juries seem loath to blame a relative of the victim. There's always the "haven't they suffered enough" involved with juries.
Exactly. Anyone who creates gun free zones that result in deaths should be held default responsible - civil and criminal.
Interesting and accurate take. Unfortunately there's the whole sovereign immunity or some such bovine secretions.
The deepest pockets in this case were the anti-gunners who were funding and supporting this lawsuit for the aggrieved parents.
Remington shot themselves in the foot.
Presumably the purchasers of Remington's firearm business. IIRC, the ammo business was bought by Vista Outdoors in the bankruptcy proceedings.
Presumably what?
This had nothing to do with the company that bought the Remington plant at Ilion NY, and the rights to the name.
This was the lawyers and insurance companies who had control of the proceeds, under court supervision, of the sale of the assets.
Actually it does if the company that bought the Remington name wants to keep selling guns under that name. It needs the publicity and association of that name with Sandy Hook to go away. Wouldn't surprise me if the new Company didn't come to an agreement with the insurance company to shoulder some of the settlement.
"militaristic and assaultive qualities"
Now, what else and who else could this apply to? Any political parties?
How long before the defense industries in CT can be sued for the misuse of their products by the US military?
If a gun maker can be held liable for harm, can it sue for a reward when its gun saves a life? Every day cops use guns at work, "to serve and protect". Do the cops have to share their pay when a gun is needed? Isn't "turnabout fair play"?
How is Justice served when people who have committed no crime, not misrepresented anything, are punished for someone else’s choice of actions?
If people were simply required by law to meet the criteria to bear arms that is spelled out in the constitution, meeting the firearm proficiency and personal responsibility demanded by any well regulated militia, the blame for criminal behaviour would be unambiguously assigned.
All but a few here are under the false impression that a 'gun manufacturer' made a settlement of a lawsuit.
The "Remington" alluded to is the dead husk of a bankrupt company that had its total assets sold at a court approved sale.
The settlement was by the lawyers and insurance companies that were left holding the proceeds of that sale.
"Remington" of today is a new company that bought the Ilion NY plant, some of the technical data packages for the firearms previously produced, and the right to use the name for its new production of the rifles and shotguns trademarked 'Remington'.
geez.
You are aware that people have been suing manufacturers for decades, right? That several mayors, governors, and other statesmen have said that this is exactly how they plan to destroy the gun industry right? That they've even done this to gun-adjacent organizations like the NRA, right?
Like stumbling across a pack of wolves in the wild tearing the clothes off a fresh corpse and saying "They're not a danger to humans, they're only interested in the clothes." Except the wolves can talk and they howl about their desire to consume human flesh in the night.
The Second Amendment guarantees a legal right to keep and bear arms, at least for self-defense in the home.
I'm sorry. I keep reading the Second Amendment and don't see ANYTHING about "self-defense in the home". It's just not there. The Second Amendment guarantees a legal right to keep and bear arms. Full stop.
CB
Yes! And the context demonstrates quite effectively it is meant to protect us from our governments AS WELL as defending our homes and supplying food.
Once again and moreover, it doesn't forbid the legislature from taking any/all action to prevent the courts from depriving citizens of their 2A rights. Whereas the 1A explicitly says "Congress shall make no law" not, "Congress shall make no law except in the case of internet trolls suing social media companies." JFC, I can remember a time during the NN debates when actual Libertarians used to espouse the idea that Title II itself and in its entirety was a form of regulatory capture.
Was there a crazy juice vaccine mandate that I missed? WTF happened?
How is it this case was neglected while whining about Texas’ abortion law? THIS IS A BIG DEAL. “What if they do this with guns?” They already WERE and you ignoramuses couldn’t pull your heads out Sanger’s asses long enough to make the argument.
You guys are useless.
So is Stihl going to be liable if someone uses one of their saws to cut down a tree without a permit in a National Forest?
Is Wusthoff going to be liable if I use one of their knives to perform surgery (I'm not an MD).
Absurd capitulation to the bully-state.
“ The weapons Remington manufactures and sells are not inherently dangerous absent criminal or negligent actions by the people that buy them. This is made obvious by the fact that the overwhelming majority of the nearly 400 million privately owned firearms in the U.S. never harm anyone at all.”
Indeed, if only 0.01% of guns prove lethal (40k/400 million), wouldn’t a 99.99% failure rate in a device designed to kill be considered faulty? What if you car started only 1 day in 25 years?