These Lawsuits Argue That Trump Conspired To Incite the Capitol Riot
Proving that claim requires more than reckless rhetoric, which is constitutionally protected.

After Donald Trump's second impeachment trial ended in acquittal, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R‒Ky.) suggested that the former president could still be held civilly or criminally liable for his role in the Capitol riot that happened a year ago last Thursday. But as three lawsuits that a federal judge considered this week show, those options require proving that Trump deliberately provoked the violence that day, which is a tall order.
The Trump supporters who broke into the Capitol, interrupting the congressional tally of the presidential election results, came to Washington, D.C., at his behest. They were motivated by Trump's fantasy of a stolen election, which he had been promoting for months and reiterated in a fiery pre-riot speech at a rally a mile and a half from the Capitol.
"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard today," Trump said. While he did not advocate violence, it was foreseeable that at least some of his supporters would interpret his exhortation to "fight like hell" in defense of a supposedly imperiled democracy as a justification for the use of force.
Still, there is a big difference between reckless rhetoric, which is protected by the First Amendment, and the criminal conspiracy described in lawsuits filed by Rep. Eric Swalwell (D‒Calif.), other House Democrats, and two Capitol Police officers. All three complaints allege that Trump violated the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871 by conspiring to use threats, force, and intimidation to stop government officials from carrying out their duties.
To prove that claim, the plaintiffs must do more than show that Trump ginned up his supporters' outrage with false election fraud claims, or even that he did so in circumstances where he should have known violence was likely. They have to show that the Capitol riot was the culmination of a plan to violently disrupt the ratification of Joe Biden's victory, a scheme in which Trump himself intentionally participated.
Capitol Police officers James Blassingame and Sidney Hemby also claim that Trump violated a provision of the D.C. Code that "makes it a criminal offense to willfully incite or urge other persons to engage in a riot." In addition to the requirement that the offense be committed "willfully," prosecution for incitement is constrained by the First Amendment.
Even advocacy of illegal behavior, the Supreme Court ruled in the 1969 case Brandenburg v. Ohio, is constitutionally protected unless it is not only "likely" to incite "imminent lawless action" but also "directed" at doing so. Another exception to the First Amendment, for "true threats," involves "statements where the speaker means to communicate a serious expression of an intent to commit an act of unlawful violence to a particular individual or group of individuals."
In a brief supporting Swalwell's lawsuit, three law professors, joined by legendary First Amendment attorney Floyd Abrams, say these exceptions "likely apply here." But whether that is so hinges on what we surmise Trump was thinking when he gave his speech.
Trump explicitly urged Mike Pence, for instance, to reject electoral votes for Biden—a power the vice president did not actually have. But Trump did not threaten Pence with "an act of unlawful violence," and inferring such a threat requires speculation about what Trump meant to communicate in light of what his supporters did afterward.
It is likewise not at all obvious that Trump wanted to cause a riot, an outcome that failed to accomplish his ostensible goal, led to his second impeachment, and provoked harsh criticism from Republican legislators such as McConnell. If this was all part of a plan, it was a pretty stupid plan.
The urge to punish Trump for his reckless rhetoric is understandable but dangerous. If his opponents succeed, they may regret establishing a precedent that speakers who neither practice nor preach violence can be held legally liable for the conduct of listeners inspired by their words.
© Copyright 2022 by Creators Syndicate Inc.
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Peace & Love
"there will be blood in the streets” - Loretta Lynch
“Who says protests have to be peaceful“ - Cuomo
“There needs to be unrest in the streets” - Ayanna Pressley
“Protesters should not give up” - Kamala Harris
“I just don’t know why they aren’t uprising all over this country“ - Nancy Pelosi
“You get out and create a crowd and you push back on them, tell them they are not welcome“ - Maxine Waters
Dangerous Insurrectionist Demagoguery
“And now go home with love and peace, remember this day forever“ - Donald J Trump
They came from around the country with different affiliations — QAnon, Proud Boys, Neo-nazis and White Supremist: the President wants us here. Mafia don warned on Wednesday that his supporters would respond with “riots” if he fails to secure the nomination at July’s convention in Cleveland.
Infowar stated on June 14, 2017 in a website article:
Says Loretta Lynch was part of "a stunning collection of calls to violence and murder from the intolerant, unhinged leftists in the Democrat party." PANTS ON FIRE.
“Let’s have trial by combat,” said Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani, warming up the crowd for Trump.
"Infowar stated on June 14, 2017"
Seems irrelevant for a mostly peaceful protest on 1/6/21, but irrelevancy seems to be your wheel house.
dbruce is a dbag that dbates with dbunked dbauchery.
It's a trollbot. It posts irrelevant (and often phony) Trump quotes whenever someone says something that reflects poorly on the Democrats.
Phony? How come you can't refute ANY of them? Irrelevant? Just a fancy word for "I can't prove that wrong". Did you ever find that Michigan Man of the year Award? I'll tell you where it is, in his brain with the other million lies he made up. You might want to take one of those QAnon mind reading courses or watch Super Man vs the Invisible "Stealth" Man. Fun Fact: Trump vs O'brien, he lies 30 times under oath, coming again soon to TVs around the world.
Refute what, you clown? Saying "trial by fire" doesn't prove Jack shit, you bird brain. Should we go down the list of violent rhetoric the Left wing spewed since Trump even mentioned he was running? Or the lies they promoted about Trumps racism, or the Russians stealing the election.. on and on.. all verifiable lies. You're an idiot if the highest order, pissing into the wind and believing you're taking a shower. Your entire rant is logical fallacy to the next. You group proud boys with some mythical white supremacists who have nothing in common. And what if white supremacists support Trump? WTF? Some support Biden, you f'ing idiot. But you didn't hear your gatekeepers at CNN mention THAT, did you, you rotten sack of human filth?
It was about Loretta Lynn who was No. 1 on Mother's Lament post two above you. I suppose MOSTLY peaceful to you is a gallows and chanting of HANG MIKE PENCE? Police being stabbed with flag poles? Feces spread on walls? Stealing the speaker's lectern? 140 police injured? You need to look up the word "peaceful".
So, I did look it up. It shows Kenosha burning.
"It was about Loretta Lynn who was No. 1 on Mother's Lament post two above you. I suppose MOSTLY peaceful to you is a gallows and chanting of HANG MIKE PENCE?"
Based on the standard set in 2020....yes. Very much so. Far more peaceful than those "mostly peaceful protests". Do you have video/audio evidence of "Hang Mike Pence"? Not a story...actual evidence.
"Police being stabbed with flag poles?"
Stabbed? Seriously.
"Feces spread on walls?"
Violence? Messy, perhaps...but violent?
Also, any actual evidence of this? Not stories...actual evidence. Pictures/video?
"Stealing the speaker's lectern?"
Violence?
"140 police injured? You need to look up the word "peaceful"."
Hell, the current VP fundraised to bail out people for doing markedly worse than this. So, she certainly thinks it is peaceful.
Someone needs to come over to you house and lynch you since that would be mostly peaceful.
cool story, brah.
"Someone needs to come over to you house and lynch you since that would be mostly peaceful."
Democrats do have a long history of that.
"cool story, brah."
Thanks. Figured an entire post of original "thought" by you was outside of your talent level and it was.
Maybe you can get into the DISINFORMATION DOZEN. You would get along with RFK jr, and you might run into JFK and JFK jr, which have the same intelligence as you, "mostly".
OK, does anybody know what the hell he is talking about?
its gotta be a bot!
Nope.
Not even him.
Really? Do we have to post the images of people with Trumps severed head? You jacktard.
Remember when Hillary told people to go out and fight? That she told people in her concession speech that it's important to fight for what's right? And there were riots on inauguration day where stuff was burned down?
If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. If the left thinks they can playing by these rules and it will never come back around, they deserve what will happen later.
Go ahead....have the trials. The 'prosecutors' will make fools of themselves.
It seems like Ray Epps and Scaffold Commander were more involved in any kind of criminal behavior than Trump.
I didn't know the FBI where Trump supporters. Maybe they were just upset they didn't get to actually kidnap Whitmer after spending all that time planning it.
Another bombshell.
We've reached the tipping point.
The walls are closing in.
It's the beginning of the end.
#ItsMuellerTime
Multiple times in this article sullum states all fraud claims are false despite the fact that there are already fraud convictions for the 2020 elections. And cases like Ga who declined to pursue charges on thousands of double voters. Open investigations in Wisconsin, PA, etc.
Claiming there was no fraud and any claims of fraud are false is one of the stupidest things someone can say in regards to 2020. It is simply pushing leftist narratives. Yet sullum persists.
I don't have evidence either way on the 2016 election.
But really bugs me is the people who spent the whole of Trump's presidency calling him illegitimate, and making claims that the Russians or someone else rigged the election for him. The same people are now saying that anyone who even questions any aspect of the 2020 election is not just a conspiracy theorist, but a real danger to the USA.
To take it even further, most of those folks absolutely claim that elections will only be safe and fair when no voter ever has their ID or signature checked.
I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that perhaps they just lack any self awareness, and just don't notice that their position varies, depending on whether they stand to gain personally from it.
I lived in the USSR, and it was true that government officials would lie to you, realize that you know they are lying, and not care, because there was nothing you could do about it.
This will be hard case for them to make, since they have no evidence.
Where have I heard that before?
No evidence just shows the depth of the conspiracy. They made sure to leave no trace behind.
/sarc
"The urge to punish Trump for his reckless rhetoric is understandable but dangerous."
More Libertarian love of free speech going on right here.
By the way Sullum... where is your article about lawyer Elias trying to disqualify gop candidates under the guise of insurrection?
"The urge to punish Trump for his reckless rhetoric is understandable but dangerous. If his opponents succeed, they may regret establishing a precedent that speakers who neither practice nor preach violence can be held legally liable for the conduct of listeners inspired by their words."
I'm sorry but if it sets a precedent that a president, or anyone wealthy or holding power, can be found liable for SOMETHING then it is far and away a great thing.
Aren't we all quite tired of the wealthy and powerful getting away with everything? Would you hold the same view if it was Biden or any other wealthy or powerful person getting away with shit? Take the W if you can get it. Heaven knows this class of people need to be reined in.
Biden just last year said trump was elected illigitemately. Your team actively sought resistance against a duly elected official and illegally used the IC to go after opponents. Democrats worming in D.C. openly admit to using government resources to dox political opponents.
Clean your own house up first if you are serious.
Commenting on the facts - not opinions - that Trump lost the popular vote and was aided by Russia and Comey's announcement 2 weeks before the election, are not the same thing as trying to overturn the election. Other facts are that Hillary called Trump the early morning of the night of the election to concede, and wish him well. Obama opened up resources for his incoming administration to get up and running early, and Hillary attended his inauguration - though not a public official - to show the traditional support by the opposition of the results and the new administration.
Trump the toddler having a tantrum, which some mistake for a serious complaint though no proof has been presented, did none of those things and in fact by his actions has damaged our electoral system and the stability of our country purely for his own petty and small benefit. Of course anyone watching him reecognizes that as all that ever motivates him. He's just a selfish infantile prick and if you don;t get that, there's something wrong with you.
In short, there was, and has not been, any serious Democratic attempt to overturn the 2016 election, though criticism of the fat blowhard and undercutting of any thoughts that he had a mandate have occurred.
“ Hillary called Trump the early morning of the night of the election to concede, and wish him well.”
Hillary is the author of Russiagate — an attempt to overthrow a sitting president of high crimes in order to impeach him over false accusations.
If Trump did that, you’d want him thrown in jail.
Idiot leftists want Trump thrown in jail for ANYTHING. He's their white whale.
Sorry Brian, but Putin did help Trump and with Trump's full knowledge and coordination. From the GOP led Senate Intel Comm Report on the 2016 election, released in summer 2020 (PS They spent thousands of hours with witnesses and reviewing docs and the report thoroughly goes into their methods):
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/viewer.html?pdfurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.intelligence.senate.gov%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fdocuments%2Freport_volume5.pdf&clen=52433345&chunk=true
"..The Committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin directed the hack-and-leak campaign targeting the DNC, DCCC, and the Clinton Campaign. Moscow's intent was to damage the Clinton Campaign and tarnish what it expected might be a Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and generally undermine the U.S. democratic process. The Committee's findings are based on a variety of information, including raw intelligence reporting.
Beginning in March 2016, officers of the Russian Main Intelligence Directorate, the GRU, successfully hacked computer networks belonging to the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), and the email accounts of Clinton Campaign officials and employees, including Campaign Chairmap.John Podesta. Over the following months, these hackers carefully established persistent access in confidential areas of the victims' systems and stole massive amounts of politically sensitive data and personal communications. The data was subsequently leaked by GRU personas and WikiLeaks at strategic moments during the 2016 election, as part of a coordinated hack--and-leak operation intended to damage the Clinton Campaign, help the Trump Campaign (the · "Campaign"), and undermine the U.S. democratic process. 1110
Wiki-Leaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian campai~knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort. The Committee found significant indications that Julian Assan e and WikiLeaks have benefited from Russian overnment su art ...
After receiving the GRU' s materials, WikiLeaks timed its document releases for maximum political impact.. WikiLeaks released the GRU-hacked materials obtained from the DNC on the eve of the Democratic National Convention. It released materials stolen from Podesta's email account starting on October 7, 2016, and continued to release Podesta's emails up until the election. ' (U) While the GRU and WikiLeaks were releasing hacked documents, the Trump Campaign sought to maximize the impact of those materials to aid Trump's electoral prospects. To do so, the Trump Campaign took actions to obtain advance notice about WikiLeaks releases of Clinton emails; took steps to obtain inside information about the content of releases once WikiLeaks began to publish stolen information; created messaging strategies to promote and share the materials in anticipation of and following their release; and encouraged further theft of information and continued leaks. (U) Trump and senior Campaign officials sought to obtain advance information about WikiLeaks through Roger Stone. In spring 2016, prior to Assange's public announcements, Stone advised the Campaign that WikiLeaks would be releasing materials harmful to Clinton. Following the July 22 DNC release, Trump and the Campaign believed that Roger Stone had known of the release and had inside access to WikiLeaks, and repeatedly communicated with Stone about WikiLeaks throughout the summer and fall of 2016. Trump and other senior Campaign officials specifically directed Stone to obtain information about upcoming document releases relating to Clinton and report back.
The Committe~ found evidence suggesting that it was the 'i~tent of the Campaign · participants in the June 9, 2016 meeting, particularly Dortald Trump Jr., to receive derogatory information that would be of benefit to the Campaign from a soui:ce known, at least by Trump Jr.,. to have connections to the Russian government.
The Committee assesses that at least two participants in the June 9, 2016 meeting, Veselnitskaya and Rinat Akhmetshin, have significant connections to the Russian government, including the Russian intelligence services. The connections the Committee uncovered, particularly regarding Veselnitskaya, were far more extensive and concerning than what had been publicly known, and neither Veselnitskaya nor Akhmetshin were forthcoming with the Committee regarding those connections.
...During the 2016 U.S. presidential election cycle, Donald °Trump and the Trump Organization pursued a business deal in Russia. ...
While these negotiations were ongoing, Trump made positive public comments about Putin in connection with his presidential campaign. Cohen and Sater sought to leverage Trump's comments, and subsequent comments about Trump by Putin, to advance the deal.
Tl;dr
If you can’t show me the evidence that Trump committed Illegal coordination with Russia then you’re just blovating.
Propaganda dump does not count.
Brian, thanks for clarifying your viewpoint that colluding with foreign powers to get their help to get elected and then lying about it are OK with you. This is in sharp contrast to when the Gore campaign quickly contacted the FBI and returned Bush debate practices video to him when it was anonymously mailed to them before the election.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2000/11/06/fbi-quietly-hunts-solution-to-mystery-of-debate-tape/d901a505-6f44-4913-9dab-586d154d4081/
Which part of your post is Trump illegally colluding? I can’t see it.
I see a lot about Russia and how horrible it is for Wikileaks to let people read DNC emails.
Of course, the DNC could have just not been asshats, but why focus on people with power, when we can throw a journalist in jail for the crime of reporting on politicians you like?
They could have also permitted the FBI to investigate their servers...but they seemed to know something the rest of us do not.
Brian, colluding isn't a legal term. In this case it's a term accurately describing your weasel presidents getting help from a rival foreign power to get elected and explains why he kept giving Putin hand jobs while in office.
Nothing in the DNC emails was illegal or embarrassing, but notice "great journalist" (according to asshat buddy and fellow Russia travelers Greenwald) Assange never released any Russian or Trump secrets.
Why do you wanna president to go to jail over your own weasly words?
Because democracy is that important to you?
"Brian, colluding isn't a legal term. In this case it's a term accurately describing your weasel presidents getting help from a rival foreign power to get elected and explains why he kept giving Putin hand jobs while in office."
Like shutting down fracking in the US to lower global oil prices or to approve a pipeline in Europe that had been opposed by his predecessor that helped Russia significantly?
@brian - thread winner!
(oh for an edit button)
@brian, your comment is the thread winner...
"Of course, the DNC could have just not been asshats, but why focus on people with power, when we can throw a journalist in jail for the crime of reporting on politicians you like?"
You must have missed the part afterwards when the testimony that supposedly supported the above conclusions was finally declassified over the Democrats' objections, and it turned out that the intelligence services had testified over and over that they had no evidence of any collusion.
All the Adam Schiff Transcripts
One thing that you people never seem to address is WHY Putin would help Trump.
The Democrat Party has always been left of center, to one extent or another the allies of the Soviet Union.
The Russians pumped millions of dollars into Hillary's crime cartel -- why would they throw all of that money away to support Trump?
"Commenting on the facts - not opinions - that Trump lost the popular vote and was aided by Russia and Comey's announcement 2 weeks before the election"
So you're an insurrectionist. Got it.
The popular vote is not a thing.
Cronut, it goes to "mandates" and what "the people" want. They don;t want Trump, never have, nor do they want any of the last 8 GOP presidential candidates except Bush in 2004, who shouldn't have been an incumbent then, nor would have been a wartime president because Gore never would have invaded Iraq.
"Cronut, it goes to "mandates" and what "the people" want. "
If your goal was popular vote, you'd go to FL and TX and that is about it. You'd ignore literally every other state.
The people don't elect the president. The states do.
cool story, brah. Should try the double spacing again, it makes your post only "mostly" stupid.
I agree. It's very important to make an example of someone. Whether or not they broke any laws is irrelevant. We need to make a point, and if that means convicting someone based on constitutionally protected free speech, then so be it. If they're afraid to speak, they can't say stupid things.
Why does Joe Friday come to these boards besides poorly executed trolling?
I think mostly just to shit up comment threads. Everything he says is just incredibly stupid.
A lack of self-reflection.
Trying to keep lurkers from buying the BS that is standard fare here MT-man.
Facts are the best tool for this.
if you want lurkers to 'quit buying the BS' then quit smearing your brand of feces over the comments section, because a rational person would prefer BS to JF Brand feces
“ Heaven knows this class of people need to be reined in.”
Who do you think is doing the reining?
What's dangerous is not holding people accountable who try to overturn a presidential election because they can't accept losing. The Congressional Committee - and possibly AG Garland are working on the background conspiring which did occur with WH staff and Trump's involvement to do this. Their ongoing attempts to put political types in charge of state certification of electors is a continuing threat that can turn our elections into banana republic like crooked events ruled not by conscientious public servants of both parties, but by hacks guided by desired outcomes. This is no joke.
“The Congressional Committee - and possibly AG Garland are working on the background conspiring which did occur with WH staff and Trump's involvement to do this.”
It’s been a year. Show the evidence, oh fact-based one.
The committee and garland have not been at it for a year.
Yeah, they’re working on it, just like Trump’s people have been working on the theory that the election was stolen.
That doesn’t seem to go over well with you. I believe the complaint is “lack of evidence.”
So go ahead: any time.
Pro-tip: it’s a lot easier to make yourself fact-based than other people.
Brian, the election records are all public and in most "contested" states have been checked and rechecked. Trump and his stooges are all resisting testifying before the committee. If you recall Hillary happily sat for 8 hours before the GOP led committee on Benghazi and answered everything they threw at her.
When's your guy going to man up for a change?
Right after you prove to me that Trump colluded with leading Republicans to assault the capital and overthrow our democracy.
"What's dangerous is not holding people accountable who try to overturn a presidential election because they can't accept losing."
The prison terms for the Russia collusion hoaxsters has been...what? Biden just basically forgave McCabe of everything illegal he did.
"Their ongoing attempts to put political types in charge of state certification of electors"
You mean like Soros Sec of State project?
Sorry dami, I don't speak wingnut. Maybe you can be more specific.
I'm not sure I can dumb stuff enough for you. Sorry.
You mean, like when they form a "Resist" campaign and promote a false story about Russian collusion?
Democratic leaders don't care if Trump is actually convicted of anything. They'll have their minions file charges against him, and delay the trials until just before the mid-terms, to fire up their base.
The problem is that it isn't working. The economy is still in a flat spin, thanks to the Administration and the Dem governors who trashed their states to make things bad for Trump (then discovered that they enjoyed the dictatorial powers they got from the DemPanic).
They can't turn this around before the mid-terms. They can't even reduce the rate of destruction enough to make a difference.
"While he did not advocate violence, it was foreseeable that at least some of his supporters would interpret his exhortation to "fight like hell" in defense of a supposedly imperiled democracy as a justification for the use of force."
No it wasn't. That's just stupid. "Fight like hell," is a very commonly used phrase in political speech. That phrase or some version of it is used over and over again in political speech, and no reasonable person would consider it a call to violence. It's a call to mobilize around a cause. If you want to start considering it a foreseeable call to violence, then no one can use it in any context, and that's chilling to free speech for everyone.
Parents can't "fight like hell" for their kids' education, or they might incite someone, somewhere, to violence.
Socialists can't "fight like hell" for an increase in minimum wage or some crazy fry cook might bur down a McDonalds.
Why do you need to equivocate, Sullum? Can't you just say these suits have no merit, and Trump's speech was constitutionally protected free speech?
It was concurrent with the riot. Sullum is such a hack he can't even get the basic facts right. One might think it relevent when claiming a speech 'incited' a riot that the speech had not yet happened when said riot began.
Furthermore, how could a speech that far away from the riot site incite it?
Walking distance Michael.
Only if you were traveling so fast you went back in time while walking there, Joe.
The "Proud Boys", (Reminder, we've since learned that their leader was an FBI informant.) were spotted heading towards the Capitol at 10:58 AM.
The speech STARTED at 11:00 AM!!!
The apparently fake bombs were reported at 12:49 as a distraction. They'd been planted the night before. Trump was still speaking.
The crowd in front of the Capitol started attacking at 12:53. Trump was still speaking.
1:13 Trump finally finishes his speech. Two miles separate the site of his speech from the Capitol, at a brisk walk, the first of the people listening to his speech would have arrived... Nearly an hour after the attack began!
Bottom line is that the attack was clearly planned in advance of Trump's speech, probably days in advance given the prepared distraction of those bombs being reported. There's no way the speech could have incited a riot that was planned in advance, and began before the speech was over, and the people attending the speech would have been an hour late to the riot.
Anything Trump had said that was early enough to have been responsible for the riot would have been far enough in advance to lack the immediacy of "incitement", you need to make a case, instead, that he planned and ordered the attack.
I don't see the least evidence of that.
The idea that Trump wanted a riot has never passed the smell test. Regardless of the integrity of the election, he was and still is eligible to run in 2024. He's alive and in good health, unlike our current president, and he has a very realistic chance to win. Why would he support a riot that could only reduce his chances of re-election?
You have to twist yourself into quite the pretzel and basically be the most fervent anti-Trumper on earth to rationalize these crazed conspiracy theories.
There's no question he supported the riots as he sat next to the Oval Office watching the entire thing on TV for hours while family and staff kept asking him to get on TV to end it.
Why would he do that? He's a loser with the attention span and emotions of an infant. This was not a smart conspiracy, it was a desperate throw s..t against the wall and hope something works conspiracy. If in 2024 Trumpsters capture control of electors - he tried to get regular election officers to do it in 2020 - and he runs, who knows.
So the Democratic legislators who didn't go out to stop their constituents from looting and burning in support of BLM are just as guilty. Right?
That was also Trump's fault.
Want to give a specific example Jerry?
Well, the current VP helped fundraise to bail rioters out of jail.
I'm sure he found it somewhat entertaining, in the same way many Democrats found rioters causing billions of dollars of property damage a real hoot the last couple of years. That doesn't make him responsible for it.
I expect that it took a while for him to realize that the media weren't blowing a largely peaceful protest way out of proportion, and that the mess was going to be pinned on him.
"You have to twist yourself into quite the pretzel and basically be the most fervent anti-Trumper on earth to rationalize these crazed conspiracy theories."
And cue Joe Friday to provide the example.
They don’t care about evidence and facts, which is so ironic considering that’s their main complaint against Trump.
Because guys like Joe Friday are the target of the propaganda. Nothing he says will EVER change anyone's mind. It's the same bullshit word vomit that's been peddled for 5 years.
The point isn't to make a coherent case against Trump. The point is to keep Joe and his friends in a constant state of rage and TDS.
I just unloaded a dumpster of facts on you Brian and you have no response except it wasn't illegal.
“ you have no response except it wasn't illegal.”
If you care about law and democracy, that should be a very important fact.
Joe Friday does not care about either of those things.
Joe Biden is fit as a fucking brick staircase and Trump is the same age and, what, 400 lbs with the diet of a monkey loose inside a KFC?
Man your media diet can get you to believe literally anything.
"...All three complaints allege that Trump violated the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871 by conspiring to use threats, force, and intimidation to stop government officials from carrying out their duties..."
All three TDS-addled shits should be countersued.
Countersued based on what theory?
"incite" is a misnomer nobody's words make anybody act. should be protected speech
Then why do you give a shit what AoC says?
Because she’s a member of Congress with certain legislative powers?
Because nobody’s claiming AOC doesn’t have a right to spout stupid shit?
What was your point?
Like others with terminal cases of TDS, Sullum fails to acknowledge any of the massive evidence documenting actions by Ray Epps and a half dozen coconspirators on Jan 5 and 6 https://www.revolver.news/2021/12/damning-new-details-massive-web-unindicted-operators-january-6/
(before and as Trump spoke on Jan 6):
- repeatedly urged Trump supporters to not only go to the Capitol but to "go into the Capitol",
- swiftly removed barriers blocking a key entrance to the Capitol,
- using identical megaphones, urged thousands of Trump supporters to walk into the Capitol complex, and
- smashed windows and began entering the Capitol building.
While Sullum's arguments are valid (to dismiss the partisan and frivolous lawsuits against Trump), the evidence on hundreds of videos/audios taken that day exonerate Trump, and clearly document that Ray Epps and a half dozen of coconspirators (none of whom have been indicted, likely because they were/are FBI agents or informants were instructed to break into the Capitol that day).
"While he did not advocate violence, it was foreseeable that at least some of his supporters would interpret his exhortation to "fight like hell" in defense of a supposedly imperiled democracy as a justification for the use of force."
No it wasn't. Politicians use fighting metaphors all the time. Nobody expects or "foresees" some supporters of those politicians to go out body check a police officer afterward. It is only "foreseeable" in the same way a car accident is "foreseeable" every time you get behind the wheel of a car. Actually less so because I don't think there has been a right wing riot* in over half a century, perhaps a century. As opposed to the left wing, where governors will activate the national guard in anticipation of unrest if a court case doesn't go their way.
* The right wing does riot, but only when counter-protesters try to stop them from protesting. Can't really call it a right wing riot when half the fisticuffs are antifa showing up to disrupt the protest. Leave the right wing alone though, and I can't think of a single riot before or since Jan 6.
So I guess those emails last year from the Trump campaign (I signed up to see directly what they were actually saying instead of taking the media's word for it) that said things like "Dear PATRIOT - are you willing to lay it all on the line to keep these UNHINGED LIBERAL RADICALS from destroying our country?" were just...a metaphor? Just a little fun?
Of course they also wanted me to send any amount of $$$ I could, but I digress...
You are a virus, and you'll be dealt with as such.
So simply repeating the words that the Trump campaign/money laundering operation chose to send out makes me a “virus?” Mmmkay….
Also…would you care to elaborate on how exactly you plan to “deal with me?” Be specific. Don’t hold back.
The $$$ they wanted you to send them was the "it" that they wanted you to "lay it all on the line". The guy who literally could have called a nuclear strike on DC didn't need and wasn't asking people to punch a police officer in the Capitol building. Do you have some emails from summer 2020? I'll bet they are excruciating clear on Trump's opinion on civil unrest and attacking cops.
You got the rest of the context of those emails? Were they about destroying democracy?
Do you think patriots shouldn’t feel willing to lay it all on the line to keep unhinged liberal radicals from destroying the country?
You go ahead with that keeping "unhinged liberal radicals from destroying the country." I'll even hold your beer. Come back and let us know how that works out for ya!
Well, the predication for an investigation into offenses against the United States is there, but kinda hard to determine whether there were any conspiracies when the suspects and persons of interest refuse to answer questions and stymie an investigation at every turn.
Let the 1/6 committee (and any relevant agency investigations) do their work and let the chips fall where they may.
(retired criminal investigator)
Wow! I haven't been to Reason in awhile. This place sure has gotten full up with butt-hurt Trumpublicans. Are there any libertarians here at all?
"Trial by combat" is not typical political "rhetoric." Especially given the context (time/place) the crowd was urged to "stop the steal"
In all fairness, it was Giuliani and not Trump who said it out loud.
The libs fear of Trump is overwhelming, silly and going to get Trump a second term. They would do best to forget about Trump and to start working on better policy that actually helps Americans rather than hurting them.