Julian Assange Extradition Decision the Latest Blow to Freedom of the Press
Either everybody gets to enjoy journalistic freedom, or it will turn into glorified public relations work for the powers-that-be.

With the decision by Britain's High Court that Julian Assange can be extradited to the United States, his high-profile case appears, at long last, to be coming to some sort of unfortunate end. Assange's fate will soon be in the hands of the U.S. federal courts, and it seems unlikely that either he or freedom of the press will emerge unscathed from the ordeal.
In a decision that heavily relies on the British government's history of believing official U.S. assurances, the High Court took on face value American claims that Assange will not be held in especially restrictive prison conditions "unless he were to do something subsequent to the offering of these assurances" that would justify such treatment. As a result, the court ordered the district judge to "send the case to the Secretary of State, who will decide whether Mr Assange should be extradited to the USA." That's pretty much a given, since it's what the governments of both the U.K. and the U.S. sought all along.
The charges Assange will face in the United States relate to his "alleged role in one of the largest compromises of classified information in the history of the United States," in the words of the U.S. Department of Justice. Basically, Wikileaks worked with Chelsea Manning to reveal information that embarrassed the United States government, and Assange faces espionage charges over the means used to acquire the data.
Ironically, Assange faces extradition to the U.S. in a year in which the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to Maria Ressa and Dmitry Muratov for defying the governments of, respectively, the Philippines and Russia to report news that officials find inconvenient.
"They are representatives of all journalists who stand up for this ideal in a world in which democracy and freedom of the press face increasingly adverse conditions," the Norwegian Nobel Committee noted. "Free, independent and fact-based journalism serves to protect against abuse of power, lies and war propaganda," it added.
Notably, the information that Assange and Manning exposed was primarily about U.S. military operations, revealing facts that, arguably, contradict war propaganda.
"The US government's indictment poses a grave threat to press freedom both in the United States and abroad," Amnesty International objected to the U.K. High Court decision. "If upheld, it would undermine the key role of journalists and publishers in scrutinizing governments and exposing their misdeeds would leave journalists everywhere looking over their shoulders."
"Today's ruling is an alarming setback for press freedom in the United States and around the world, and represents a notable escalation in the use of the Espionage Act in the 'War on Whistleblowers' that has expanded through the past several presidential administrations," the Freedom of the Press Foundation commented.
"This has served the purpose of illuminating all of the global voices of freedom to the authorities. 'If this can happen to Assange for simply exposing the truth, then it could happen to me for publishing a leaked document,'" Richard Hillgrove, Julian Assange's former PR representative, says over email. "At the same time, it's created a petrifying and chilling example to the global journalistic community – crushing investigative journalism worldwide."
That said, support for Assange isn't universal among journalists.
"I think that the wholesale dumping of Wikileaks actually isn't journalism," Maria Ressa, one of this year's Nobel Peace Prize winners, insisted in 2019. "A journalist sifts through, decides, and knows when something is of value to national security and withholds until you can verify that it isn't."
But as Reason's Jacob Sullum pointed out last month, journalists tend to get unreasonably sniffy about their profession, insisting that it's an elevated status rather than an activity that anybody can do.
"As UCLA law professor and First Amendment scholar Eugene Volokh has shown, the idea that freedom of the press is a privilege enjoyed only by bona fide journalists, however that category is defined, is ahistorical and fundamentally mistaken," Sullum wrote. "It is clear from the historical record that 'freedom of the press' refers to a technology of mass communication, not to a particular profession."
That is, anybody gathering information and releasing it to the public is engaged in journalism, even if others doing the same thing have different ideas about how that information should be acquired and what should be reported. And, while government officials habitually evoke "national security" as a talismanic phrase to ward off scrutiny, there's no convincing reason why the use of those words by themselves should prevent publication of Manning's information, the Pentagon Papers, or anything else.
Speaking of the Pentagon Papers, consider this.
"This is the first indictment of a journalist and editor or publisher, Julian Assange," Daniel Ellsberg, who released the documents that came to be known as the Pentagon Papers, pointed out in 2019. "I see on the indictment, which I've just read, that one of the charges is that he encouraged Chelsea Manning and Bradley Manning to give him documents, more documents, after she had already given him hundreds of thousands of files. Well, if that's a crime, then journalism is a crime, because just on countless occasions I have been harassed by journalists for documents, or for more documents than I had yet given them."
Of course, journalism won't be openly classified as a crime in Assange's case or any others likely to arise in the near future. But his years-long ordeal, culminating recently in the High Court decision and a simultaneous stress-induced mini-stroke (according to his fiancee, Stella Moris), is a hell of a shot across the bow to those engaged in newsgathering. That the shot comes from the governments of nominally free countries only emphasizes the message. What treatment can those exposing the abuses and missteps of the powers-that-be expect from overt authoritarians when British and American officials applaud the punishment of inconvenient reporting?
In the end, if we're going to preserve press freedom and larger protections for free speech, professional journalists need to stop pretending that what they do requires membership in an exclusive club. Either Julian Assange and everybody else get to practice journalism in ways that offend people in power, or it will get turned into glorified public relations work for those who hold power.
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"...professional journalists need to stop pretending that what they do requires membership in an exclusive club."
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I bet a lot of reporters would be for a license.
Maybe even a badge and a uniform.
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A trial, and probably conviction, of a foreigner for obtaining and publishing illegally obtained military documents, stolen by a mentally ill traitor is hardly an indictment of freedom of the press. But hey, you do you.
Now do Trump’s financial documents.
Right after Biden's; Joe and Hunter.
Sir! Yes, sir!
What about a mentally ill U S citizen doing so?
"Clinton" comes to mind.
A foreigner cannot be a traitor to the US or commit treason against the US, so what exactly are you accusing the foreigner of?
If this becomes the principle of international law, should China be able to extradite US citizens who criticize the Chinese leadership?
They already do?
Please... This is about the DNC server and Hillary's hard drives. Your falling for the noise of the Manning BS. Mark was killed (ms-13) by the Clinton machine. What he gave Assange (along with what's on Hunter and Wieners laptops) is WHAT will be taking down ALL these Evil perverts. Assange was being protected till it was time to come to America and take down the whole system of these corrupt ass NeoCons and Neoliberals. Out in the open.., in a court of law is HOW it will be done. Just as planned.
The Phucko Knows
He should have gone to Russia.
Yeah but our progressive #Resistance allies told me Assange is a bad guy because he helped Russia hack the 2016 election.
#LibertariansForGettingToughWithRussia
Yes, the 1st amendment protects the right to publish classified information if you receive such from a whistleblower.
However, the 1st amendment does not protect getting actively involved in obtaining classified information.
The charges against Assange include the latter. It does no damage to freedom of the press to try him on those charges.
is it illegal to tell somebody about the anarchist cookbook? The evidence I've seen at most has assange mentioning tools the person could use, not training the person. And likewise they'd have to link the training directly to the action, not a generalized training. Grey hate training books and courses are perfectly legal.
I don't know if they can prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt. My only point is that not all the charges against him would be barred by 1A.
Including the charges that he raped Obama's dog and poisoned Lake Huron and assassinated JFK. Since the details of exactly how he obtained access to the White House and what sort of chemicals he used to poison an entire lake and how his involvement in JFK's death has been hidden all these years, this will necessarily have to be a secret trial to protect our national security. You can rest assured even though you won't be able to know any details of the trial, it will be a completely fair trial with the government bending over backward to give Assange every benefit of the doubt.
^ This
“ However, the 1st amendment does not protect getting actively involved in obtaining classified information.”
Really? Where is that exemption found? Where does the US Constitution grant the power to enforce military information classification against civilians to the federal government?
Past SCOTUS decisions on the issue.
Yes. But SCOTUS precedent has ignored the constitution for more than a century.
So to you being the handler in an espionage ring is protected 1A activity. This prosecution may be over the line but Assange was not the information clearinghouse people initially held him out to be.
And this distinction is the real problem. We put 'freedom of the press' on a pedestal - but deny that government transparency is the actual right of citizens. That government can in fact restrict 'the press' by arbitrarily and unaccountably defining some information as 'classified' and other information as 'available'.
Freedom of the press is much broader than just "government transparency".
Maybe. Unless of course government opacity becomes the means by which freedom of the press can be infringed.
Except it's called "investigative journalism" when the pros do it.
he didnt " press"
Youre way too shallow
.
He blew the security state wide open in their illegal spying, snooping and data collection.
And how SPECIFICALLY did Assange become “actively involved” in obtaining the illegal information?
per the indictment, he helped or tried to help Manning crack a partial password that would have given him, administrative level access to the the intel. That's not journalism.
He's also charged with conspiracy. Clearly, Manning broke the law. If Assange and Manning formed an agreement that Manning would break the law by illegally obtaining the classified documents and then give to Assange to publish, then it doesn't matter that the publishing, in an of itself, constitutes journalism. An overt act in furtherance of a conspiracy does not need to be illegal.
Some of the charges clearly go after the journalistic nature of Assange's conduct, namely the publishing and possessing the intel (how can one publish without possession) and maybe even setting up the cloud account that Manning used to forward him the intel (how is one to possess without being able to receive), but once you've conspired to break the law, then maybe all acts after that are in furtherance of the criminal conspiracy and not protected journalism.
This didn't involve any access to classified systems, and it is something anybody with a Linux computer (i.e., millions of people) can easily do. The indictment is nonsense in calling the "Linux operating system" "special software". Furthermore, the fact that supposedly secure systems not only used a simple password hash for access control and made the hash accessible to Manning shows that either those systems weren't very important or that security was piss-poor.
Journalists generally are free to publish many kinds of illegally obtained information, and by its nature, that was the purpose of WikiLeaks. If we adopted your reasoning, anybody who indicates a willingness to publish illegally obtained information could be found guilty of conspiracy. That's not how a free country should operate.
Sorry, but you don't think like a "Real American", you think like a real totalitarian.
"Julian Assange Extradition Decision the Latest Blow to Freedom of the Press Either everybody gets to enjoy journalistic freedom, or it will turn into glorified public relations work for the powers-that-be."
Two weeks ago, progressives were flooding the media with complaints that Kyle Rittenhouse should have been convicted of murder--not because he was actually guilty of anything but because of the message an acquittal supposedly sent to racists. In reality, people should only be convicted of murder when they're guilty of murder, regardless of the message an acquittal supposedly sends. If Rittenhouse had shot people without sufficient provocation, he should have been found guilty regardless of the message that would have sent, too. The outcome of a trial shouldn't be a function of the message we want to send. The outcome of a trial should be a function of the law and the facts of the case.
It's the same thing with Julian Assange and Edward Snowden. I'm all for freedom of the press, the freedom to tell the truth, and the freedom to tell the truth to power. However, if the law is wrong the way it is and the facts of the case are such that these two should be extradited and tried for their alleged crimes, then that's the way it is regardless of whether we like the message following the law sends. I hope Assange is acquitted, maybe even by way of jury nullification. If a grand jury decided that what Assange is accused of shouldn't be considered a crime, then he shouldn't be tried. Otherwise, the facts of his case are what they are, regardless of whether we like the message that convicting him would send.
Pretending the facts and the law aren't what they are because we don't like the implications is delusional, progressive thinking. Journalists pretending the truth is whatever they want it to be may ultimately be a bigger threat to the power of good journalism than convicting Julian Assange. What's worse, a press where journalists are afraid to expose the truth for fear of prosecution, or a press that has thoroughly destroyed its own credibility by reporting news based on the message they want to send--to the point that people wouldn't believe the truth anymore, even if journalists exposed it? Either way, aren't we selling journalism short? As of October of 2021, 69% of Independents had little or no faith in the mass media to report the news fairly and accurately!
https://news.gallup.com/poll/355526/americans-trust-media-dips-second-lowest-record.aspx
Assange =/= Snowden.
Freedom of the press has nothing to do with foreigners publishing materials knowingly gained illegally.
Because you say so?
Because the law says so?
Neither of those things are authoritative, and both of them might be irrational.
The warboner types will drone on about these things.
How can "the law " declare that a swede getting emailed a file in London is subject to US Law?
that seems a bit of a stretch.
Can the US arrest a Malaysian business owner for selling full auto rifles to a Ukrainian?
How about an Indonesian hooker in Jakarta selling sex to a US citizen? Can we extradite her for that?
'Cause, I don't really see us extraditing The Jacket to China for denigrating the Chinese Premier.
A law that makes it a crime to exercise our First Amendment rights is probably indefensible.
We can willingly sign our rights away in an employee contract, but Assange wasn't working for the government.
Maybe engage with the facts of the cases. Snowden compiled his information, curated it for wrongs against the citizenry and sought out journalists to publish just the relevant portions for his point. Manning supposedly was sought out and helped with obtaining random information for Assange by Wikileaks who then posted it indiscriminately. Wikileaks has a point but they are irresponsible and allegedly criminal in how they make it.
Sir! Yes, sir!
It had to be them two. As America press Corp is full of nothing but bought and paid for Evil shitheads. U need to expand your thinking. Because as of now u have the intellectual depth of a two week old mud puddle.
The Phucko Knows
Progressives are amazing! Is there anything that isn't their fault?
Just one: gender reveal parties that end in explosions. Nah, that’s their fault, too.
Low gas prices?
Freedom?
Repealing regulations?
Very little. Almost all the evils and destruction of the 20th and 21st century are due to progressives or socialists.
Progressives and socialists value altruism as a principle to guide one's choices and actions. Does anyone else do this?
Altruism is when you make a personal sacrifice to help others. Christians and conservatives do that through charity.
Progressives and socialists want to replace charity with forcible redistribution "from the 1%" to the rest of society, meaning that there is no personal sacrifice involved.
Progressives and socialists, in fact, despise altruism. Progressives and socialists are driven by greed, envy, and selfishness.
Anything good that happens?
You're really crying hard on the inside, huh?
Good thing you deserve it. Have another glass!
I gotta start with "not an American citizen, not acting within america"
Exactly how is extradition warranted. I put this in a similar bucket to Kim Dotcom.
I really can't figure out why Tue rest of the world has decided that the US gets to make their laws applicable to everyone, everywhere.
Because the politicians in the rest of the world have a personal interest in kissing up to the US, specifically US technocrats.
That’s also why they were so upset when Trump won and was mean to them, and why they politely ignore the gaffes of the senile moron in chief we’re have now.
It worked. The Biden-Reagan 1986 prohibition law was exported to all caudillo and pauper States in South America. The US market crashed in 1987, but the hyperinflation & collapse broke all the rules and did not arrive until 1992. Spreading out the risk appears to have enabled the initiation of deadly force to propagate across borders, then export the worst of the economic collapse. Perhaps perpetrating the asset forfeiture is better than being its victim.
Last time I checked, Assange was not an American citizen, was not in the US, and was not subject to US law. Under what authority is the US allowed to extradite a foreign citizen for breaking US law from a foreign jurisdiction? This reminds me of the Kim Dotcom bullshit or the threatened seizure of the Microsoft Ireland business records.
The USA is now clearly running an empire. ALL must OBEY now!
Under what authority is the US allowed to extradite a foreign citizen for breaking US law from a foreign jurisdiction?
It's the "Fuck you, we do what we want" clause in the Constitution.
I would have said international agreement, but ok.
They added the Monroe Doctrine to the Constitution? Aguinaldo would've been horrified!
I agree with your question and your point. I've been asking that for a long time. Before discussing his journalist status, it matters whether US law applies to him or not. Even if he was somehow not considered a journalist by an arbitrary standard, how can US law apply to foreign citizens living a foreign country?
Do you mean did it apply to him at the time he committed the alleged crime? (It's not clear what you mean, because he is being extradited.)
Yes, I don't believe US laws/constitution apply to foreign citizens who are outside of the united states. Being extradited has nothing to do with the scope of the law.
It may be easier to see it in reverse. For example, what if China passes a law that every US citizen must pay a tax to China. Can China forcibly kidnap/extradite US citizens for not paying their tax and then punish them in China? Of course not because we believe that laws that other countries pass do not apply to US citizens who are located in the USA.
Your example has a lot of problems. You might want to tweak it a bit.
Wrong. They can and often do.
"forcibly kidnap" would be an act of war and/or a violation of international laws, regardless of the legitimacy of the complaint. This is why Israel is fairly secretive about their propensity to add to its collection of old Nazis from around the world.
As for extradition, this is almost always political and requires several things to be true:
1. Typically, the offense needs to be illegal in both countries. For instance, it is generally hard to extradite someone from a country with free speech protections to a country without them for speaking out against their government.
2. The potential punishments must be at least acceptable to the country being extradited from. US is not likely to allow extradition of someone for shoplifting to a country who cuts off hands for such offenses. The US sees this with murder, where countries w/o the death penalty will make the US take that off the table before agreeing to a extradition of a murder suspect.
3. It is almost always political. Extraditions are political chips which can be traded and bargained with. So, the country asking for it must make sure it is worth the hassle, cost, and political capital that it might cost.
None of those things would be true in your example. Nor could China forcibly stop people from mixing up Xi Jinping with Winnie the Pooh in the US, there is no way a western country would allow for the extradition of something which is so clearly protected speech. If they knew you had made fun of Winnie the Xi, (say... Facebook meme post) and you where to travel to China, they could arrest you; however, they would risk it becoming devastating to their tourism industry, becoming a worldwide scandal, and it would be politically stupid.
All that said, 1st Amendment is just a Red Herring in this Assange's case. This is a horrible article and isn't what he is being extradited for. The charges are all about illegally accessing US computers and hacking (or at least facilitating) US classified data.
This is not atypical. As an example, if a hacker in the UK accessed a US defense contractor's systems and steals stealth tech, the US would have a very high vested interest in going after the perpetrator. It would also be regardless of if they published the data for all to access or if they sold it to Russia, Korea, Iran, and China. That initial hacking, not what is done with the data after the fact, is what would be used to extradite.
Not that I believe that the US has a case here. From what I've read about the claims, they seem pretty weak and jury convection is far from guaranteed. My issue is, instead of all the bitching and complaining about how this hurts the press, we should...
1. Point out the pettiness of individual elected officials and bureaucrats who are behind this and continue to push for this. They are acting like children and it would be nice if the press would waggle a finger at them much more sternly that it currently has been.
2. We should be celebrating the legal system in the US that will deal with this issue in the light of day. No black ops sites, no secret trials, no press blackouts, no hidden backroom deals. If all goes well, the DOJ will be thoroughly embarrassed by the whole ordeal and the press will happily publish the entire affair on the world wide stage.
I'm no fan of Assange, but I agree with you and Cyto and others about questioning the legal & moral basis for this.
Manning, on the other hand, probably deserved to be punished for the equal and opposite reasons.
manning was just lashing out bc they couldnt get Snowden or Assange...
Angry hurt children act that way...when they get caught.
Dial/ Coins
Manning hated being in the Army, and has a lot of mental problems being a homosexual with severe body dysmorphia.
So if I call on a hit from across the Rio Grande I've apparently done nothing actionable. Cool.
“Pretending the facts and the law aren't what they are because we don't like the implications is delusional, progressive thinking.”
Ken, meet Sidney Powell. Both sides, baby.
I fail to see the analogy to Sidney Powell.
"Pretending the facts and the law aren't what they are". You don't see Sidney Powell in that?
Sidney Powell was wrong on the facts and on the law.
That is very different from government, media, or courts PRETENDING that facts and laws are not what they are.
So, no, I don’t see any similarity.
None of her wrongness involved pretending on her part?
Correct.
Courts don’t have to follow unconstitutional laws.
Right. They just make up their own laws
No, but they can invalidate portions of laws that are unconstitutional.
"Either everybody gets to enjoy journalistic freedom, or it will turn into glorified public relations work for the powers-that-be."
Does "journalism" require knowledge of the use of tense in the English language?
I thought the main problem with that sentence is that “it” seems to be referring back to “journalistic”, which is the adjective, not the noun, in the introductory clause.
You thought wrong , dude.
Great Britain does not have a right to freedom of the press that is as strongly protected as the USA. It is one of the areas where the US is exceptional compared to the rest of the world. You can make a judgment on how this effects US press freedom once the case is put before a US court
It is amusing that Ellsberg apparently thinks Bradley and Chelsea Manning are different people, or at least cannot find phrasing that does not imply that they are separate individuals.
Yeah, the First Amendment doesn't just protect our freedom of speech and freedom of the press, etc. It's also a big part of what makes us American. The other British commonwealth countries don't have freedom of speech and freedom of the press the way we do. MPs suing media outlets for defaming them is relatively common in Australia and Canada.
"Edmonton-Griesbach Conservative MP Kerry Diotte is suing the University of Alberta student newspaper over a pair of articles that he claims have defamed him.
According to the statement of claim, the article included a passage that said, “Several U of A students voiced concern over Larsen’s meeting with Diotte, who has a history of making racist remarks.”
The article pointed to social media posts Diotte has made about ex-Rebel Media contributor Faith Goldy, who was fired after appearing on a podcast of the Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi website.
It goes on to say Diotte has been accused of “making racist and insensitive marks (sic) in the past,” specifically a 2016 tweet from Diotte about a custom-made Bingo card with which he “played along” during question period in the House of Commons. The card included the terms “Syrians” and “First Nations.”
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/edmonton-mp-sues-the-gateway-student-newspaper-for-defamation
Somehow the specific examples of racism make it less clear.....
The 1A says simply “Congress shall make no law…”. Applying that to courts or states are legal innovations not found in the Constitution. The 1A wasn’t incorporated against the states until 1925. It is hard to argue that a legal change made during the era of progressive expansion of big government is essential to American identity.
If it's a federal crime--by a law passed through Congress--to report the truth, then that's a violation of the First Amendment.
A hundred years ago, broadcast media was in its infancy, but American newspapers were as openly salacious and . . .
And the spirit of the First Amendment has been present in both our culture and the law for far longer than that--going back to at least the Sedition Act of 1798.
"Noting the outrage among the populace, the Democratic-Republicans made the Alien and Sedition Acts an important issue in the 1800 election campaign . . . . The Alien and Sedition Acts were never appealed to the Supreme Court, whose power of judicial review was not clearly established until Marbury v. Madison in 1803. Subsequent mentions in Supreme Court opinions beginning in the mid-20th century have assumed that the Sedition Act would today be found unconstitutional.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts#Contemporaneous_reaction
The outrage was at federal laws, not at state laws. In the 19th century, states still widely restricted 1A rights.
So, the 19th century 1A is a core part of American culture. The overreaching 21st century 1A is a 20th Century innovation and stands in conflict with subsidiarity and local governance.
You are welcome to prefer either version of the 1A, but let’s not pretend that the current version reflects an unbroken tradition.
If Ellsberg were not in the US, he could be in trouble for even uttering Bradley.
Maybe the government shouldn’t have so many secrets.
Red alert!!! Sound all klaxons!!! Ah-OOOOOH-Gaaaa!!! Ah-OOOOOH-Gaaaa!!!
(Violator-citizen, we will be at your door momentarily. Gather your toothbrush and your prescribed meds... ONLY the prescribed ones, now!)
No Need.
The enforcers of newspeak will bash in his teeth, and prescribe the "correct" meds to straighten out what will be left of his mind.
I’m hoping somebody will be at your door, because your are obviously in need of professional help and a padded cell.
SQRLSY is mentally ill.
Not treatable.
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It should be euthanized.
Then how would the Kleptocracy loot, rob and murder? Lysander Spooner eschewed secret ballots at a time when Klan hoods served the same function. Yet Mark Twain warned of letting Klansmen identify jurors. John Brown's Secret Six were copied in Chicago prohibition enforcement circles. The dilemma breaks down if the State is not empowered to initiate force in violation of rights outside of a declared state of war. An armed and neutral policy of no entanglements has not failed Switzerland.
So anybody can put out anything that they want, with no consequences because "Back off man! I'm a Journalist!"
If you are not libeling/slandering or conducting espionage.
Or pretending individual freedoms exist.
I don't see espionage exceptions in any of the arguments being put forth.
Pretty much. Except in narrow cases of defamation and libel and slander, you're free to broadcast any sort of lies you want. Just ask Walter Duranty, Dan Rather, Brian Williams, Ezra Klein or Rachel Maddow.
Rachel Maddow is the best, because she has her very own legal term, named after her! The "Rachel Maddow Defense"... it is a cousin to the Chewbacca defense.
A court actually determined that as a matter of law, no reasonable person could ever believe that anything Rachel Maddow says is true... Therefore it is impossible for her to commit libel or slander.
So even when she says "this is literally true, we have absolute proof" the courts have determined that she is so completely lacking in credibility that a "reasonable person" would still conclude that she is not making a statement of fact.
Every person she interviews should throw that in her face if she disputes them, or calls them a liar.
Iirc, General Westmoreland sued CBS (?) over a Vietnam documentary where he claimed libel. I believe they settled before a trial began.
That's what freedom of the press means. It's not just for 'journalists', it's for everybody.
From your own article - "Assange faces espionage charges over the means used to acquire the data." Just because someone publishes the end results of their crimes doesn't excuse those crimes as a 1st Amendment right.
I was about nineteen years old when I figured out that the primary reason for the government declaring certain information or documents as "classified" or "secret," which could get one into legal trouble for accessing or publicizing, was to cover-up governmental misdeeds. Fifty years later, nothing has changed my opinion.
...which is what this is all about.
Assange, Snowden ripped the mask off the traitorous US Govt security agencies
Recall the retaliation over exposing the murder by helicopter of civilians? Was that Iraq?
Yeah, that.
FJB
I think leaking classified information is definitely wrong and needs to be punished, but the leaker is the one that has access and provides the information to an unauthorized person - not the person that receives the information. In this case, Manning is the person that had access and Manning is the leaker that should have been punished.
As far as I can tell, classification should only be a constraint in government employees and members of the military: they are responsible for protecting the information and should be liable for leaking it.
Under the Constitution, the federal government has no power to enforce classification against people not in its employment.
Yes. In my opinion the law/constitution does not apply to Assange. It does apply to Manning.
"I think leaking classified information is definitely wrong and needs to be punished, "
Comey said it wasnt when Hillary Clitin did it.
" no criminal intent"
There
You
Go
Fuck Joe Biden
Dont Grope me Bro!
But Asante isn’t an important party member in good standing.
Everything Hillary Clinton does has criminal intent.
Comey didn't understand his job. It was to investigate and turn over evidence to the DOJ to interpret. He over step his authority. That is why he got dismissed (fired). POS!
Assange loses protection as a "journalist" when he helped Manning steal the info.
And the legal basis for that assessment is what?
18 USC Chpater 37.
And where is the constitutional basis for that?
There are 10's of 1000s of pages of current law that can be applied to.
Well, obviously, there are lots of laws that they can throw at him. Why do you think that even needs staying?
The question I’m raising is whether those laws are actually constitutional. That is: where were these powers delegated to the federal government?
Keeping classified material classified is either executive privilege generally (basically, common law imparted to the executive branch of the government upon the founding) or an argument could be made that it's inherent in the specific grant to the President as commander in chief. To the extent you're worried about Congress' authority for these U.S.C.s, I suppose it'd be the war power.
You can cabin claims for such a privilege however you want, but there has to be some classified material for a functional national defense.
Like this article, trying to conflate the "club" of 1A freedom of the press with the obvious breach of confidential material committed here is a red herring at best. You can assert Assange should still have done what he did, but you can't assert that a just government has no inherent power to punish him for it.
We both agree that the federal government and military should be able to keep documents secret, classify them, and punish government employees for releasing them, as part of their terms of employment. None of that is under discussion here.
The question here is what the constitutional basis is for punishing civilians or even non-citizens in foreign countries for disseminating such information.
Congress hasn’t declared war since 1942, so war powers don’t apply.
I disagree about the "terms of employment" part. This isn't a "you revealed our secrets you're fired" issue. I'm saying that the executive gets to chase down leaks too. The idea that once a traitor discloses a state secret to someone else - any civilian in your formulation, a Constitution of defined powers renders the government helpless, is the sort of strawman that opponents of a constitution of defined powers would make.
The U.S. Constitution does not need a "Congress shall have the power to halt the dissemination of state secrets" provision. It's inherent in conduct of military affairs, and the founders had full knowledge of that implication when they vested the federal government with the power to control the armed forces and conduct war. I admit uncertainty bordering on ambivalence whether that power is properly legislative or executive, but I do not doubt its existence.
I certainly would agree that assertions of such authority are much more circumscribed in the U.S., given the First Amendment. When Putin says don't publish that or we'll shoot you, it could well be his baby pictures. But when a U.S. official says don't publish that or you'll tried under these statutes, the content to not be published had better be obviously a "state secret" of military significance, or otherwise be held to be so by a court of competent jurisdiction.
The article's false choice is: if the NYT had published state secrets, it would be immune because of inappropriately selective application of the First Amendment's protections. The correct answer is the First Amendment confers no such immunity to anyone.
The better defense is that the revealed materials do not rise to such a necessarily high standard. Not: the Times gets to publish the nuclear codes and therefore so should he.
You want the US to become like any other statist shithole country in the world.
The power to declare arbitrary information as "state secret" and then prosecute people for possessing and/or distributing it a power that can destroy a free country. It is also not just unnecessary to have a secure country, it is harmful. And there is no indication that this kind of power renders a country any more safe from its enemies; after all, Chinese spies are obviously not deterred by harsh punishment, nor do they have to fear extradition.
If "publishing the nuclear codes" impacts the security or operation of the country, then the security and safety procedures around nuclear launches are deeply flawed.
The ability to prosecute civilians for leaking "secret" information simply doesn't have the importance you think it does, but it most certainly is widely abused by governments.
Name one country on Earth with a functional military that does not have protectable state secrets.
strawman
citation needed
See 1.
All state actions are harmful. Either directly or from taxing to acquire the resources to pay for them. You're just applying an absolute standard against one you don't like. Your expressed views on harm are very, very myopic, and emblematic of why people who have such views never govern countries.
This is a complete non sequitur. State secret rules do nothing to protect against foreign spies? The argument there among unilaterally-surrendering fools would be that espionage laws don't protect against them. non-foreign-spies get tried under state secret regs, foreign spies get tried under espionage laws - if they get a trial. Similar, but not the same thing. The U.S. reserves the power to shoot spies - so it's an important difference for the party on whose behalf you're arguing.
What security? Your position is that security is unconstitutional. Disclosure of any information is protected by freedom of speech in your view. So, U.S. troop deployments, the nuclear codes, any conceivable information. If an employee steals it and leaks any information, you have magnanimously conceded that the government may fire them. But that's it. If a non-employee gets that information? No penalty. Anyone who purchases, suborns, or otherwise assists in the disclosure? No penalty.
And any incentive that could be mustered by anyone in the world in excess of the scruples of the least-scrupulous employee with access, can buy any information, if there are no further penalties permitted. Which in your view, there are not.
Your views preclude running a country that's worth a damn in protecting anyone's rights because they preclude the possibility of a functional national defense.
Well certainly if Russia abuses X we should never do X.
Options for X:
permit street cleaners on the roads
travel to Britain
prosecute tax evasion
In less fun, applied terms: if items in a category can be abused, that category must be prohibited. A completely inane argument.
Not at all. My position is that the state can enforce the protection of state secrets against government employees.
Government may also put government employees in jail or execute them for disclosing such information.
The rest of your diatribe is based on your incorrect reading of my position.
As I was saying "You want the US to become like any other statist shithole country in the world."
That's at least a good guideline to start with.
I'm not aware that Russia is "abusing" either of these governmental powers. Can you give examples?
Both Russia and the US are abusing this governmental power, and indeed we should consider getting rid of the income tax for just this reason.
And that protection is obviously incomplete as applied to anyone other than government employees acquiring and transmitting state secrets. You propose a less complete protection than the government gives trade secrets in most states.
So in order to protect foreign nationals seeking to dump the contents of U.S. systems (like Assange), you offer up Bob the Janitor at DHS to receive a bullet for giving the contents of the trash to some guy at a bar for fifty bucks? Your proposed standard is morally deranged, as well as unworkable.
That was a joke based on a few of the more famous and recent Kremlin murders. The best/only video of Boris Nemtsov's murder on a bridge in Russia is obscured by a snow plow (sorry, not a street sweeper) at the time of the shooting. The defector and his daughter poisoned by Russians "on vacation" in Britain. Sergei Magnistky was arrested on frivolous tax evasion charges before dying in Russian prison, and the resulting U.S. act to sanction Russian financial crimes committed in support of Putin's regime bears his name.
The point I was making was trivial: the abuse of a power does not itself delegitimize it. And you refuse to address the impossibility of your position so I diverted to amusement. But there is a germane point from those examples: unlike providing snow plows, vacations in Britain, or arguably even tax evasion enforcement (we had a military before an income tax after all), the federal U.S.government must protect state secrets in order to fulfill its basic, constitutional function of national defense. I repeat my challenge:
Name one country on Earth with a functional military that does not have protectable state secrets.
And yes, by protectable, I mean against more than just government employees.
If someone commits a criminal act against our country, we can go after the ones who did so. Obviously limited by relevant extradition treaties.
Obviously, that's what the US government actually does. The US government even prosecutes or kills people who have violated no laws but are inconvenient.
The question is whether that is a good thing. It doesn't improve our security and it certainly doesn't improve our liberty.
Lying?
There is no Constitutional protection for " Journalist"
Journalist in this case would be a practitioner of "the press", specifically mentioned in the constitution as protected.
Journalists are protected if they weren’t involved in the illegal actions taken to acquire the classified materials. If they helped steal the information, no protection.
True. The National Socialist platform explicitly discouraged fake news: a. all editors and contributors of German language newspapers be folk comrades;
b. non-German newspapers must have the express permission of the state to appear. They may not be printed in the German language.
c. every non-German investment in or influence on German newspapers be legally forbidden and be punished by the closing of the publishing house and the immediate expulsion of the non-Germans involved.
And in the US, we're going even further:
a. all editors and contributors of US newspapers must be Democrats and progressives;
b. non-progressive newspapers must have the express permission of the state to appear.
c. every non-progressive investment in or influence on US newspapers be legally forbidden and be punished by the closing of the publishing house and the immediate expulsion of the non-progressives involved.
You, of course, approve.
“… or it will get turned into glorified public relations work for those who hold power.”
What do you mean, “get turned into?” What do you think it is now?
I applaud his efforts and hope 20 Assanges take his place. shine the light on the roaches every time
Well, isn’t it funny that your Ivy League colleges teach you to speak up and do the opposite to what the government does. And foreigners pour money into your economy because we didn’t get scholarships or took out loans. But hey, everyone blames the foreigner. Government always has to have scapegoat, for most countries it’s the foreigners - I’m a legal alien ???? I’m a legal alien I’m a foreigner in New York
Well, isn’t it funny that your Ivy League colleges teach you to speak up and do the opposite to what the government does. And foreigners pour money into your economy because we didn’t get scholarships or took out loans. But hey, everyone blames the foreigner. Government always has to have scapegoat, for most countries it’s the foreigners - I’m a legal alien ???? I’m a legal alien I’m a foreigner in New York
" Well, isn’t it funny that your Ivy League colleges teach you to speak up and do the opposite to what the government does"
Thats so "1970s"
But when it comes to Democrats warmongering and war crimes, its Oll Korrect..
Who said it:
"Obama is a bigger WAR CRIMINAL than Bush ever was."
>>I’m a legal alien ???? I’m a legal alien I’m a foreigner in New York
Sting on line 2...
Better call The Police.
...call the police via a message in a bottle! Or some mustard in my butt-hole, whatever it was...
I am so sick of the Federal government whining about "national security" every time someone exposes their dirty laundry. If freedom of the press has to be sacrificed in order to preserve national security then our nation doesn't deserve to be secure.
NSDAP Germany was an important Christian populist initiator of force, complete with oratorical demagogue leader. Yet its biggest problem was retaliation. This it countered with, you guessed right, counter-retaliations they called reprisals, revenge or pacification. It's almost as though for every initiation of force there is unequal but apposite reprisal force. Yet the simple act of voting against altruist aggression makes it go away, without the need for bloodshed. Germans did not have that option, and Americans let it go to waste.
The NSDAP was a progressive party, loved by American progressives. Like American progressives then and now, they disdained Catholicism and protestantism; but since 95% of Germans were Christian, they paid lip-service to Christianity and created their own fake "Christian church".
The biggest problem of the NDSAP was that they were a bunch of divisive racial grievance mongers who opposed liberty, wanted the state to take care of everybody, and deluded themselves into thinking that they were "altruistic". You know, just like modern progressives.
' ... he encouraged Chelsea Manning and Bradley Manning to give him documents'
Both of them?
Does this mean we have to start calling Manning 'they' now?
Peyton and Eli
Personally I prefer "it" for transgenders.
Embarrassing is the word for what one would expect to find in Wikileaks searches for "forfeiture." Or so I'm told.
Let’s not forget the catalyst that created a flood of leaking. In the early 2000’s, the Bush Administration systematically destroyed America’s legal whistleblowing framework where government employees could report waste, fraud and abuse. Figuratively removing the pressure valve from the pressure cooker. The results were totally predictable.
Reminder: it’s totally legal to have reported Bush war crimes if there had been a legitimate whistleblower system for complaints but Bush destroyed that system. People like Edward Snowden, John Kiriakou, Thomas Drake and others were upholding their constitutional Oath of Office unlike many Bush officials at the time (ie: Title 5 US Code 3331 and Article VI of the U.S. Constitution).
During this Bush era, many of the honest Inspectors General were fired or pushed out if they had too much integrity like Mary McCarthy at CIA and other agencies.
Remember the Monica Goodling political purge at the U.S. Department of Justice? Goodling targeted Democrats, LGBT federal employees and those perceived liberal politically. Goodling also tried to purge some U.S. Attorneys (federal prosecutors) at the Justice Department. Instead of receiving prison time for violating federal law, Goodling was offered a plea deal to testify in front of Congress. Goodling was probably an otherwise good person and well-intended but must have thought the Oath of Office was to Bush himself instead of the U.S. Constitution (Title 5 US Code 3331).
Why haven’t any of the top Bush officials been held accountable? Cases like Joe Nacchio (Qwest Communications CEO in 2001) being coerced by Bush’s DOJ into perpetrating felony warrantless spying happened about 6 months BEFORE 9/11 when no wartime emergency existed.