Coronavirus

Don't Import Vaccine Mandates for Domestic Travel

We’re on our way to having to ask for permission to go about our daily lives.

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As frustrating as it is to those of us who believe in the right to freely roam, international travel is treated as a privilege subject to regulations, document checks, and the whims of government officials. Those restrictions tightened during the pandemic, meaning that the White House's plan to allow entry to travelers who have been vaccinated and tested for COVID-19 constitute an easing of rules for visitors from other countries. But that's not enough for some people who want to impose similar requirements on domestic travel, making movement within the country as conditional as that across borders.

"We're very proud of the fact that we've been able to develop a protocol that will permit travel by individuals and families and business people from the E.U. and the UK, as well as from Brazil and India and other countries, to the United States with proof of vaccination," the White House announced this week.

The key word here is "permit" which is something that applies, in our world, to international travelers. Permission to cross a national border can be granted or withheld. But that's not a consideration that's supposed to apply inside the United States—unless you're a politician who sees opportunity.

"This is a smart decision," Rep. Don Beyer (D-Va.) tweeted in response to the White House move. "I'm also glad to see the Administration is considering extending this requirement to domestic travel, which is what my bill, the Safe Travel Act, would do. I strongly encourage them to make that happen—it would be a major step towards safer travel."

Beyer's bill would "require certain passengers, employees, contractors, and subcontractors of Amtrak and air carriers to provide proof of vaccination against COVID-19 or a negative test for COVID-19 for certain transportation or employment."

The Biden administration is debating the issue as its chief medical advisor, Anthony Fauci, endorses the idea. Whether or not the White House mandates proof of vaccination for domestic travelers may depend on the fate of the president's order that private-sector businesses with more than 100 employees require vaccination. While the move draws majority support in polling, it could be kneecapped by a determined minority. Or, the effort could prevail, clearing the way for further top-down commands. That's unfortunate, because the freedom to move is a right, not a privilege.

"Freedom of movement within and between states is constitutionally protected. The right of Americans to travel interstate in the U.S. has never been substantially judicially questioned or limited," Meryl Justin Chertoff, executive director of the Georgetown Project on State and Local Government Policy and Law, wrote last year as public health concerns rapidly eroded people's freedom to travel. "In a public health emergency, as in wartime, executive authorities to interfere with those rights is at a zenith. It is not a blank check, though. The president's emergency powers allow him to limit entry from outside the country to stop the spread of disease; it also provides some control over interstate activity."

How much emergency power the president has to regulate domestic travel may well be tested if a vaccine mandate becomes a reality.

Raising concerns about vaccine mandates isn't the same thing as objecting to vaccination. Control freaks like to conflate the two, as if every good idea should be forced on the unwilling by threats of fines and imprisonment. But it's perfectly reasonable to endorse vaccination and the near-complete protection it provides against severe illness while accepting that people have the right to decide for themselves; that's how free societies work. Converting rights (such as making a living and traveling from place to place) into privileges in order to compel compliance is not how free societies work. But officials always find it easy to make excuses for fettering the public, and for throwing roadblocks in the way of travel to make it conditional on bureaucratic approval

"As a general rule, until 1941, U.S. citizens were not required to have a passport for travel abroad," according to the National Archives. The now-ubiquitous documents weren't introduced to make life more convenient for us.

"Passports … were invented not to let us roam freely, but to keep us in place—and in check," pointed out Atossa Araxia Abrahamian in a 2018 piece for The New York Review of Books. "They represent the borders and boundaries countries draw around themselves, and the lines they draw around people, too."

Also intended to keep us in place and in check are REAL ID requirements, which essentially implement internal passports for federally regulated activities, including domestic air travel.

"Beginning May 3, 2023 every state and territory resident will need to present a REAL ID compliant license/ID, or another acceptable form of identification, for accessing federal facilities, entering nuclear power plants, and boarding commercial aircraft," the Department of Homeland Security warns in its current guidance. Granted, the slipping deadline for the policy is a running joke, but the standardized ID requirement has taken on an air of semi-competent inevitability.

The COVID-19 pandemic has eased the way for government officials who have never been comfortable with a mobile population to further tighten conditions on going from place to place. A vaccine mandate for domestic travel, with the documentation it implies, would join passports and REAL ID as conditions placed on mobility that are likely to become permanent features. Overall, the pandemic has been a bonanza for those who would turn activities that once concerned only the parties to transactions (such as entering gyms and restaurants, as well as travel) into revocable privileges. We're well on our way to a permission society in which we're required to beg the indulgence of officialdom and have our identities recorded in order to do almost anything.

Supporters of vaccine mandates no doubt think they're making the world a safer place by conditioning our movements on yet one more government requirement on top of those that went before. But our freedom certainly isn't safe when we're required to ask permission and show documents to go about our lives.

NEXT: Archives: October 2021

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    1. I’d really prefer not to.

      1. Make Joe Biden pay my taxes.

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    2. I feel your pain, loser.

      1. We all feel the pain of the inept, ego driven failure that is President Biden. Some feel the pain worse such as the Afghani children that he committed war crimes against when he drone strike murdered them.
        I am a loser in as much as I have wasted a minuted replying to someone that can only aspire to be marginally average; I am allergic to mediocre.

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        The return of the asshole!

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    3. “…Americans believe by a 16-point margin that they are better off with Biden in charge of the pandemic than they would have been with the alternative: Donald Trump.

      They also give Biden’s Democratic Party much higher marks on COVID-19 leadership than they give Republicans….

      California now has the lowest coronavirus rate in the country. Meanwhile, counties across the U.S. that voted for Trump by 10 or more points in 2020 are recording far more new coronavirus cases than counties that voted for Biden by the same margin….

      nearly half of Americans (47 percent) now disapprove of how Republican leaders have handled the coronavirus, while just 28 percent approve….”

      https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/poll-by-double-digits-americans-prefer-democratic-leadership-on-delta-say-pandemic-would-be-worse-with-trump-in-charge-212201078.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_11

      1. Belief is not reality, you smarmy little faggot.

        1. Sorry geiger, but I’m taken – happily married for a long time to the same woman – but I’m sure your butch line is a sure fire winner at the leather bar.

          1. That’s an awful lot of corroborative detail for someone claiming not be a faggot, faggot.

          2. the asshole returns; fuck off and die,

          3. “same woman”

            Is that what you call your right hand?

            Left hand is “the Mistress”?

            1. Sloppy Joe’s right hand. He gives reach arounds on Fridays.

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  1. All is proceeding according to plan.

    1. If anything, the Covid years will have proven that the government ratchet never loosens up. It only continues to tighten.

      What started with “just two weeks to flatten the curve” has now become vaccine mandates to allow people to work, attend school, and soon travel. When will it become a criminal act to not be vaccinated? Maybe someone should ask Faucci about that, he seems pretty confident in his political position and unconcerned about his mask constantly slipping.

      1. When it “loosens” it’ll be like it slipped one or two teeth after someone gave it two nice, hard cranks.

        Newsome said as much as what you’re saying in early press conferences. He would try some measure, if people complied he’d try more. He didn’t stop cranking until he was ready to be recalled and, now, after the recall is in the past, he is promoting all government being MORE restrictive, everywhere. It’s religious with them. Newsome’s words:
        “It’s not just about the formal authority, but it’s the moral authority that we have,”

    2. Yup – The Reason plan. They cared about stopping MEAN TWEETS, and they did! They didn’t care about authoritarian policies, so they get them! Win win for the plan!

  2. Umm, no. The leaders of this country continue to prove they deserve to be removed.

    1. I’m buying stock in rope companies.

  3. Well, they’re being consistent: no matter what the problem is, the statist answer is always the same. “Too much freedom! Augh society needs safety rails! Teh Constitution is not a suicide pact!”

    It’s interesting to peruse leftist web sites these days. Just over the past two days I’ve seen calls to “never return to pre-pandemic travel patterns” and “regard anti-vaxxers as bio-terror suicide bombers and treat them accordingly”. Damn, they’re loving this. They don’t just want the “pandemic” to go on forever; they want to spread the “emergency powers” to all other aspects of our lives as well.

    1. It’s really all about division to the marxists. We’re literally living in 1984 and people, like the cucked writers at reason, need to wake the f up.

      They don’t just want the control over peoples lives, they want a justification to cancel, shame, and physically harm those who oppose them. That’s why they want to call us, even with natural immunity, bio terrorists. The next step is using that to justify harm against us, just like the nazis did to the jews.

      1. Like what Nardz and Sevo would like to do to anyone who didn’t vote for Trump?

        1. TRUMP!!!!

          — sarcasmic

        2. “I’m a fixated infantile piece of shit!’
          -sarcasmic

      2. It’s really all about division to the marxists.

        Not anymore. Now that they are in power, it’s all about unity subject to their rule and terms. If you disagree, with their policies, they’ll label you “insane”, “reactionary”, “fascist”, or a “terrorist”.

    2. Teh Constitution is not a suicide pact!

      The irony of this godawful quote is immense. A few years earlier, most of the same guys that ratified the Constitution signed a pact that effectively forfeited their lives by its declaration of their open rebellion against the Crown.

      “Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”

  4. We’re on our way to having to ask for permission to go about our daily lives.

    On our way? Where the fuck have you been?

    1. I was kind of hoping the choice of words was a play on the travel restrictions, but then I noticed who wrote it.

      1. “Longtobefree”, you are free. Read a history book and tell us when you would have been freer.

        1. Besides two years ago?

            1. Of you’re too stupid to realize we were more free before Covid RESTRICTIONS than we are now, that’s not my problem.

              1. R Mac, do you mean the restrictions before the vaccine, when certain places were in lockdown, people avoided businesses – studies showed that was primarily from fear, not edict – many of which went under, or after the vaccine when until the dummy brigade in red states met the Delta variant and started clogging our ICUs we were on the way to being back?

                Which time?

                1. Stupid fucking cunt.

                2. “when certain places were in lockdown, people avoided businesses – studies showed that was primarily from fear, not edict”

                  I’d be interested in how a study could show that businesses that were shut down by government were avoided for any other reason besides the fact that they were shut down by government. People were afraid to go sit in empty parking lots of shut down businesses?

                  The rest of your comment is justification of restrictions, not refutation of them.

                  I get it, you’re fine with restrictions on freedom for the right reasons, but supporting restrictions with one side of your mouth, then pretending they don’t exist with the other, makes you look stupid, dishonest, or both.

                  1. “Government policies restricting business operations and personal mobility were less important than consumers’ self-imposed limitations in contributing to the steep drop in economic activity during the early months of the COVID-19 pandemic, according to findings presented in Fear, Lockdown, and Diversion: Comparing Drivers of Pandemic Economic Decline 2020 (NBER Working Paper 27432). Voluntary behavioral changes occurred because of consumers’ fears of catching the virus, researchers Austan Goolsbee and Chad Syverson show. They conclude that repealing restrictions is not a particularly powerful tool for restarting growth so long as individuals continue to fear infection…”

                    https://www.nber.org/digest/aug20/consumers-fear-virus-outweighs-lockdowns-impact-business

                    1. “Government policies restricting business operations and personal mobility were less important than consumers’ self-imposed limitations”

                      Are you a simpleton? Do you not understand that “self-imposed” does not effect MY freedom? That link is about economic growth, not freedom. My freedom was effected by government restrictions. All the businesses that I frequent opened up as soon as they were allowed.

                      If your only response to my entire post about freedom is an article about economic growth, its just more evidence that you’re not really interested in discussing freedom, because you don’t value it. You should just admit that, to yourself, if no one else.

                    2. R Mac, if the only proper subject is your perceived lack of freedom, this will be a pretty boring discussion.

                      You asked me about my statement concerning the effective lockdown we faced before the vaccines, which put a lot of businesses under and people out of work. The bigger point is that vaccines were our path to more freedom, as those businesses could begin seeing customers again and the country would open up. The stupid resistance of anti-vaxx people, with the Delta variant, has thrown that hope up and we don’t know now where this goes next. So, which “freedom” do you want, an open country, or once semi closed down again but in which you don’t have to get a big mean old shot?

                    3. Joe Friday subscribes to the Rudy Giuliani school of freedom. Freedom means doing as we say and giving up some rights.

                    4. GF! Fuck off and die.

                    5. So you were bored with being wrong and changed the subject. Thanks for admitting that.

                    6. The stupid resistance of anti-vaxx people, with the Delta variant, has thrown that hope up and we don’t know now where this goes next.

                      What has “thrown that hope up” is the failure of the vaccines to prevent transmission and to protect against new variants, together with self-serving fear mongering and broken promises from politicians.

                      So, which “freedom” do you want, an open country, or once semi closed down again but in which you don’t have to get a big mean old shot?

                      There is no rational reason to force people to get vaccinated. Vaccinations do not prevent transmission, all they do is provide partial protection against serious disease.

                    7. So I went ahead and read your study anyway, even though it’s not what we’re talking about. Did you read the actual study, or just the article about it?

                      “Comparing consumer behavior within the same commuting zones but across boundaries with different policy regimes suggests that legal shutdown orders account for only a modest share of the decline of economic activity (and that having county-level policy data is significantly more accurate than state-level data).”

                      Considering the shutdown “policy regime” that effected me was the entire state of Michigan, this study isn’t even relevant.

                      Also from the actual study:
                      “The shutdown orders did, however, have significantly reallocate consumer activity away from “nonessential” to “essential” businesses and from restaurants and bars toward groceries and other food sellers.”

                      Yeah no shit. People aren’t FREE to go to restaurants (except politicians) so they spend more on groceries.

                      And the kicker? One of the co-authors of the study was Austan Goolsbee, a political hack who was part of the Obama administration.

                    8. Lol. And who is pimping that fear, joe? Are you patting yourself on the back for shutting down businesses?

                      Hey, it ain’t your business, right?

                      What a doosh.

                  2. Joe Friday has terrible logic probably just a sock of Mike though?

                3. You guys have a lot of posters with serious mental issues or do Libertarians think foul names are how you win points in a discussion? 3 or 4 of the regulars here – at least – seem to subscribe to this “strategy”.

                  1. Nobody is trying to win points anymore. You’ll learn that the hard way, eventually.

                    1. Joe Fuckwit thinks we are here to play his lefty mindgames.

                    2. Chuck P, I think you are here to discuss serious issues of the day. If you’re not up to anything but high fiving with your buddies, stay on the porch.

                    3. You might find a discussion from someone who isn’t a Trump supporter. But otherwise you’re just going to be labeled a leftists for not voting for Trump while a half a dozen assholes high five each other for saying mean things.

                    4. Chuck P, I think you are here to discuss serious issues of the day. If you’re not up to anything but high fiving with your buddies, stay on the porch.

                      1) Your post is incoherent.

                      2) Condemning foul language while resorting to thinly veiled references to white trash? That shows you to be a disingenuous cunt.

                      I am putting you back on mute now, White Mike. Try again with a new handle.

                    5. Did sarc post something about Trump? I don’t know because his constant hand waving in every fucking thread is so tedious I finally had to mute him.

                      So very, very broken.

                    6. Joe, meet sarc; two assholes of a kind.

                    7. Hey Abe, I mean Sevo. Do you still tie an onion to your belt?

                    8. Hey, infantile piece of shit, your mommy wants to change your diaper

                    9. “Old grey mare she ain’t what she used to be…”

                    10. So you didn’t let mommy change your diaper and now you’re licking your shitty fingers?
                      How…………..
                      infantile

                    11. The senile old man is making diaper comments?

                      Project much, Sevo?

                    12. “You might find a discussion from someone who isn’t a Trump supporter. But otherwise you’re just going to be labeled a leftists for not voting for Trump while a half a dozen assholes high five each other for saying mean things.”

                      You’ll never find a discussion from an infantile piece of shit like this; not yet old enough to understand that there are fantasies and there is truth.

                    13. “The senile old man is making diaper comments?”

                      Intantile asshole caught licking poop?

                    14. *hands Sevo a stick*

                      There. Go wave that at the clouds.

                    15. Hands sarc a dirty diaper
                      ‘Go suck on that’.

                    16. “That cloud stole my peanut butter! It voted for Biden! Die, leftist cloud! Die!!”

                    17. Hahahahahaha, goddamn sarc. Joe is about as interested in honest discussion as shrike.

                      There was a time when you would have called
                      Joe a statist and said “fuck off, slaver” as he continually pushes liberty restricting policies.

                  2. GG isn’t a libertarian. In fact there aren’t very many libertarians on these comments. Most are conservatives who are still butthurt about the election. GG is just a repressed homosexual like Colonel Fitts on American Beauty.

                    1. The only libertarian here is sarcasmic. He learned the word “projection” two weeks ago.

                    2. Sarc Joe isn’t either he’s just a not good faith poster with twisted words to try to make non truths seem like rock solid fact. He’s best to be ignored too.

                    3. Oh, and Joe is joined by our infantile “victim”
                      Fuck off and die with Joe

                    4. GG is just a repressed homosexual like Colonel Fitts on American Beauty.

                      Well, the movie was written by that faggot Alan Ball, which just showed how much he wanted to get some Nazi cock at Ram Ranch.

                  3. Behold, young Joe, the power of the Mute button. It is very simple to use. Embrace the power of choice! The choice to not engage with people that make you feel unhappy.

                  4. No winning points with idiots. You want to support fascism, expect to get punched.

                4. Studies show no such thing. That’s just a talking point. That said – why even have the edicts then?

                  People could have avoided those businesses on their own, while people who didn’t want to could have made their own choices.

                  You really are a bald-faced liar.

                  1. “Government policies restricting business operations and personal mobility were less important than consumers’ self-imposed limitations in contributing to the steep drop in economic activity during the early months of the COVID-19 pandemic, according to findings presented in Fear, Lockdown, and Diversion: Comparing Drivers of Pandemic Economic Decline 2020 (NBER Working Paper 27432). Voluntary behavioral changes occurred because of consumers’ fears of catching the virus, researchers Austan Goolsbee and Chad Syverson show. They conclude that repealing restrictions is not a particularly powerful tool for restarting growth so long as individuals continue to fear infection…”

                    https://www.nber.org/digest/aug20/consumers-fear-virus-outweighs-lockdowns-impact-business

                    1. Hey, asshole! Fuck off and die!

                    2. Yes, and people “fear infection” because of fear mongering government propaganda that rivals that of the Nazis in the 1930’s.

                      The US government offers vaccines, and if you’re vaccinated, COVID is less dangerous than the flu. It’s time for the country to return to normal.

                      People who choose not to get vaccinated are like people riding motorcycles: they choose to take risks and have to live with the consequences.

                5. Which time?

                  This time; fuck off and die

            2. A hammer blow to the head should knock some sense into you. If you spent the rest of your life jabbering like a stroke victim, your face hole would produce better content than the steaming shit you puke up now.

            3. Stuff it up your ass, pathetic piece of lefty shit,

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        2. Cis women are now free from having penis-sporting cross dressers in their designated restrooms. So I agree with you there. And folks no longer need to show medical records to attend a theatre or enter a restaurant. Point for you too. And large employers are no longer being coerced into terminating staff that choose to avoid being injected with an experimental drug. Finally, social media platforms no longer followthrough on requests by politicians to ban accounts with dissenting messages.

          1. Chumby, I don’t know how you keep up the will to live in this police state. Before you know it you’ll have to wear a seat belt and clear out all those garbage bags you’re hoarding in your backyard.

            Oh, the horror!

            1. Shorter Joe: I was wrong when I said you’ve never been freer so I’ll try to mock the person who points that out and hope no one notices.

              Here, let me help you, Joe, since you are new here: “Chumby, you are right. I suppose we have lost some freedom over the last two years. [I was wrong | Let me explain why I think that infringement was worth it]”

              Look, it’s like a choose your own adventure! Try it out!

              1. Overt – So Libertarians aren’t for freedom of choice on bath rooms or the freedom of businesses to kick people off who won’t live up to their user agreement. Geez, this is tough keeping up.

                1. Shorter Joe: “Oh shoot he got me…um…maybe I can change the subject again”.

                  Here, let me help you, Joe, since you are new here: “Chumby, you are right. I suppose we have lost some freedom over the last two years. [I was wrong | Let me explain why I think that infringement was worth it]”

                  Look, it’s like a choose your own adventure! Try it out!

                  1. JF is a sock of someone that got muted by too many and desired a larger audience to troll.

                    1. So it’s pod?

                    2. Dunno. He knew the regulars as soon as he showed up, including recognizing OBL does parodies. Suppose “long time listener, first time caller” but to go all-in once posting doesn’t fit the model.

                2. Overt – So Libertarians aren’t for freedom of choice on bath rooms or the freedom of businesses to kick people off who won’t live up to their user agreement.

                  We are! Unfortunately, Democrats oppose all those policies.

            2. Seatbelt laws are excuses to stop and coerce vehicle searching. I wear one because there are bad drivers out there.
              I store my garbage in the garage due to raccoons, bear, crows and other animals that would make a big mess. My yard, fields and forest are immaculate; why would I want them looking like a typical Democratic Party controlled city such as Portland, DC or Baltimore? That is just disgusting.
              And as Overt pointed out, you changed the subject.

              1. Chumby, I guess that’s why the tourist destination cities in America are now Lawrence Kansas and Ft Smith Arkansas.

                1. Look! Changing the subject again! Maybe you skipped your cuppa joe this morning?

                2. Nahh. Folks would rather see Phiily:
                  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cOBoDT-3oM0

                  As Overt pointed out, again, you overtly changed the subject.

                3. Joe, you deserve a slow painful death. Go find one, you pathetic piece of shit.

            3. Joe, stuff your head up your ass.

          1. (For the record, I have read thousands of history books)

    2. Considering you have to have vac paper to enter any business in LA and NY city. this article is out of date and to late

    3. Worrying about MEAN TWEETS.

  5. No, restriction on traveling domestically is not in question, just on traveling in small closed cylinders with others in tight quarters called air planes and trains. Don’t want to get vaccinated, drive your car, ride a bike, or walk.

    1. Punishing people for declining to protect you from a natural pathogen is wrong. On the list of tyrannies it certainly doesn’t rank up there with Stalin or Ho Chi Minh. But you are still a petty tyrant.

      1. Overt, this was decided in 1905 by th SC and we have had vaccine mandates ever since – that includes you and your kids almost certainly. I don’t know about you, but other than getting a shot as a kid, it didn’t ruin even one day in my life, and maybe saved thousands of days.

        1. The SCOTUS has a sordid record of upholding the will of Tyrants, so it doesn’t change the fact that you are a petty tyrant.

          But even so, you are absolutely wrong. My kids have never been mandated to take a vaccine. Every single vaccine that I have given them has been voluntary, and done for THEIR protection. You can thank me for any side benefit that happens to confer to society. Nevertheless, every single activity my kids have engaged in since birth have had the option to sign a simple form in lieu of vaccinating. I know this because, I know people who couldn’t vaccinate on expected schedules.

          All this doesn’t change the fact that you are expecting people to act to protect you from a natural pathogen. This is morally no different than demanding someone sweep your floor, or give you a coat when it is cold. Endorsing government coercion for this minor slavery doesn’t make you a Stalin or Mao, but it does make you a petty tyrant right up there with the mewling child that bursts into tears when mom fails to block the sun from his delicate eyes.

          1. Overt, you think you had your kids get vaccinated – what about you – but you were under a mandate no different than those proposed for the Covid vaccines, and yet, YOU LIVED! You prospered!

            Cut the crap on government coercion. Besides being settled law, that’s what you get when you don’t live like a hermit in Alaska. You’re living amongst 350 million Americans and 7.5 billion other humans. If you don’t like it, stay off our jets and out of our schools.

            1. Cut the crap on government coercion.

              Die.

              1. I will some day geiger. Wait on it.

            2. “Overt, you think you had your kids get vaccinated – what about you – but you were under a mandate no different than those proposed for the Covid vaccines, and yet, YOU LIVED! You prospered!”

              JFC, Joe! Read what I said. I was NOT forced to vaccinate. I vaccinated out of choice. No activity that I or my kids ever engaged in *mandated* vaccination. Every school my kids attended had a simple option to sign a form in lieu of (that means instead or in place of) proof of vaccination. There was no mandate.

              So let’s flip that around: There was no mandate AND YET YOU STILL LIVED! We were able to survive and prosper despite far more virulent and dangerous viruses without forcing people to stick needles in their (or their kids’) arms!

              “Cut the crap on government coercion. ”

              Shorter Joe: “Arguing moral philosophy is hard, so I’m just going to fall back to 4th grade logic. THE TEACHER HAS RULES! YOU CAN’T BREAK THE RULES!”

              “If you don’t like it, stay off our jets and out of our schools.”

              Those aren’t your jets, they are privately owned and the owners of those jets should be able to set the rules by which they enjoy my business.

              As for the schools, as noted above, you don’t even know how they were run before, but you think you have the sage wisdom to run them today? No thank you. We don’t need 4th graders running the schools. Leave it to me and the other adults to work this out.

              1. Overt, if you were not required to vaccinate your kids, you were unusual, and you probably were at that age. Even Georgia and Alabama have strict vaccination rules for their public schools and for some reason, no rednecks are showing up at school board meetings to threaten anyone over them. To repeat, vaccine mandates is settled law in the US and has been since 1905, so Chumby’s list of modern age police state horrors should begin then.

                Teacher has rules that make sense and your objection makes none. You oppose vaccines as safe as any that have been devised which are proven to make it harder to catch a deadly virus, and thus harder to spread it, and which protects you from serious illness – and death – if you do get it. Duhhhh.

                Those jets are regulated by the FAA and partly subsidized by the feds, and airports are typically owned by governmental entities – you know, those little places out in the field that airplanes need to do the landing and taking off thing. I assume from your comment that you oppose GOP governor DeSantis who is trying to make it illegal for cruise lines to require their customers be vaccinated, big supporter of free enterprise that you are.

                1. Hey, Joe! Asshole Central is calling. Please go there with all your buds.

                2. No, you fucking retard, pretty much every school system allows parents to opt out of vaccination for personal, medical or religious reasons.

                3. “Overt, if you were not required to vaccinate your kids, you were unusual, and you probably were at that age. ”

                  No, and it is hilarious that you keep insisting this. Here, let me help you since you cannot take 5 minutes to do a search:

                  https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/school-immunization-exemption-state-laws.aspx

                  You will note that except in a handful of states, there are exemptions that you can get from vaccination. And those that have closed those exemptions have generally done this recently, not since 1905 or whatever.

                  “Teacher has rules that make sense and your objection makes none.”

                  Sorry but given the fact that you don’t even KNOW what Teachers’ rules are, you really aren’t in a place to talk about it, Joe. How many times and places are you going to be completely and utterly wrong about what the law is, and then sit there and insist that you know the law? Or are you going to try changing the subject again?

                  ” You oppose vaccines”

                  No I don’t. I oppose the government claiming it has the power to require people to stick needles in their arms for “public safety”. The government that holds that power is a government with no real stopgaps against demanding that you can’t, say, smoke what you want or eat what you want or get the medical care you want.

                  “Those jets are regulated by the FAA”

                  And yet still owned by private actors. So, sorry, that doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t YOUR property.

                  ” I assume from your comment that you oppose GOP governor DeSantis who is trying to make it illegal for cruise lines to require their customers be vaccinated, big supporter of free enterprise that you are.”

                  Of course I oppose his meddling with private enterprise. Now your turn. Do you oppose DeSantis, or do you say “Cut the crap about government coercion” and accept HIS mandates? After all, for some reason you think governments should just get to mandate what they want unless you are a hermit in Alaska. Or are you going to say that- because this is a government mandate you agree with, maybe the government shouldn’t have the power to make these decrees?

                  1. And by the way, before you ask, it is as easy to find a doctor that will give you a medical exemption as it is to find a doctor who will sign off on an abortion for “health of the mother”.

                  2. Overt, glad to hear your OK with vaccine mandates as long as there are religious exemptions, though I don’t believe in special rights for those who are superstitious (only 14 allow exemptions for philosophical differences, but you have to apply).

                    Teacher’s rule is wear a mask and get a shot if old enough.

                    I repeat, airlines are subject to governmental regulation and land on mostly government owned airfields.

                    1. Joe, get fucked with a running chainsaw!

                    2. “Overt, glad to hear your OK with vaccine mandates as long as there are religious exemptions, ”

                      Those aren’t mandates. I can go to a doctor and say “I am not comfortable getting this jab” and the doctor will sign the form. It is easy. So that is not a mandate. It is a personal choice of the individual. I am absolutely happy with a regime that allows people to have personal choice.

                      If you want to redefine the term “mandate” as that situation, you do you.

                    3. He’d like to go on a man date with Joe Biden.

                    4. Also I note that Joe didn’t answer the question:

                      “Of course I oppose his meddling with private enterprise. Now your turn. Do you oppose DeSantis, or do you say “Cut the crap about government coercion” and accept HIS mandates?”

                      Because I have a feeling that when the government makes a mandate you disagree with, you don’t say “Oh well, we can’t complain about the government. It has the power to do this, so stop complaining!”

                    5. Overt – what’s the deal with all the gay slurs and jokes here? You guys all shower together?

                      I’m glad to hear you consistently oppose DeSantis’s ridiculous attack on the cruise industry, but I am consistent in that I recognize vaccine mandates for that industry as well almost all will benefit by that rule. Many have already instituted them – see Fox News – and many that want to will gladly take the cover Biden is offering.

                    6. Overt – what’s the deal with all the gay slurs and jokes here? You guys all shower together?

                      Your personal fantasies are none of our business.

                      but I am consistent in that I recognize vaccine mandates for that industry as well almost all will benefit by that rule.

                      If that was the case, it would have been instituted far beyond schools decades ago.

                    7. Overt wrote above:

                      “Those aren’t mandates. I can go to a doctor and say “I am not comfortable getting this jab” and the doctor will sign the form. It is easy. So that is not a mandate.”

                      Those are mandates and every proposed mandate for Covid will have medical exemptions, so I guess Overt is in favor of them because he can claim they’re not mandates. (Pssst. They are.)

                    8. “Overt – what’s the deal with all the gay slurs and jokes here? You guys all shower together?”

                      I didn’t make any such slur. Are you off your meds?

                      “but I am consistent in that I recognize vaccine mandates for that industry as well almost all will benefit by that rule.”

                      No see, you screwed up there. You were insisting prior that I should just accept mandates because they are allowed by the supreme court and governments do them. You never once argued with me that they are a good idea that will benefit all people. Let’s see your statement:

                      “Cut the crap on government coercion. Besides being settled law, that’s what you get when you don’t live like a hermit in Alaska. You’re living amongst 350 million Americans and 7.5 billion other humans. If you don’t like it, stay off our jets and out of our schools.”

                      So why doesn’t the same hold sway for DeSantis? If in fact it is possible that DeSantis was wrong to make the law he did- even though for decades we have recognized a state’s ability to ban conditioning a service on medical information- then your appeal to government is actually very inconsistent. Because it is just as likely that the government is wrong to enforce mandates.

                      It has taken you quite awhile to get here, but here we are. Does the government have the power to enforce tyranny? Yes, unfortunately. But that does not mean it is the right thing to do. And yet here we have spend page after page of you trying to argue the former, rather than addressing the latter.

                      You’re welcome.

                    9. Indeed Red Rock, but apparently you all think your sexual fantasies should be everyone’s business.

                      Most universities have vaccine mandates, but as far as the general public, the Covid pandemic is unique among recent threats in how contagious it is, so your speculation is incorrect.

                    10. Overt, sorry about the gay slur thing. Chumby’s infantile remark was right above yours and I confused it as yours. Sorry.

                      The rest of your post is confused by your misrepresenting what I have said, I assume innocently. No, I didn’t say that you should accept government tyranny because it is established law, I meant to say your opposition to a mandate for Covid vaccines was inconsistent, unless you have similarly opposed all the other vaccines that are mandated – by the way, because there are exemptions, and always will be, that does no mean it is not mandated. If it does, there is no such thing as vaccine mandate.

                      I don’t assume that government enforcing regulations is tyranny, but a necessary part of governing. Of course there could be abuses, but the Covid vaccine mandates propose by Biden are not among them.

                    11. Thou dost protest too much.

                    12. Indeed Red Rock, but apparently you all think your sexual fantasies should be everyone’s business.

                      “I know you are but what am I” tends to be the response of the proglydyte.

                      Most universities have vaccine mandates, but as far as the general public, the Covid pandemic is unique among recent threats in how contagious it is, so your speculation is incorrect.

                      It’s not unique at all. In fact, it’s not even as deadly as polio or smallpox were to those who caught it.

                4. Legal precedent is one of the worst arguments that I have seen for any mandates. There is also legal precedent for a cop to shoot unarmed citizens with no recourse. We also have legal precedent for conscription, which in essence is an open contract on state imposed slavery.

                  You are now pointing out the exact problem with our current quasi-fascist form of governance. Does any company (or individual for that matter) have the freedom to determine their own policies when the government has been given so much power over markets (through licensing, zoning and control over access to capital to name a few)? In my mind, you are not making a good argument to justify the government having a RIGHT to dictate the terms of free association. You are however correctly pointing out the massive problem that the government now has the POWER to control all forms of association through coercion. This includes infringements that would be clearly identified as unconstitutional. Having the power is not the same as having the right.

                  1. 200 years of legal precedent that not only can you own a person, you can own their family for all time.

            3. No, we weren’t forced to get the vaccines as kids either. Or the boosters every 10 years or so.

          2. Kids can’t attend school or other things unless they’ve been vaccinated. Heck, when I went to college I had to get a meningitis shot because I’d never had one as a kid. Adding another vaccine to the list really isn’t that huge of a deal.

            1. All vaccines are the same. That’s science.

            2. You are wrong Sarc. I’m sorry. Schools of course don’t advertise this but except for a couple select states (and this is recent) there has always been a simple conscientious/religious objector form that you could sign in lieu of vaccination.

              I know because I had friends who had a child that couldn’t be vaccinated right away, and they signed these forms so they could school until they got the vaccination.

              I also know this because it was a big deal in the crunchy blue states in the Pacific Northwest when all the Jenn McCarthy followers stopped vaccinating. They were starting to get to double digit non-vaccinated numbers.

              1. All I can speak to is my personal experience, and they wouldn’t let me register for classes until I got a meningitis vaccine. I also remember having to get shots for grammar school. That was many moons ago though.

                1. I’m telling you that they will sit there and say, “You need to get this vaccine” and if you actually push back and claim an objection (except in a few states), they will grudgingly hand you (or your guardian) a form to sign, perhaps with a signature from a doctor.

                  Now, I know you are in Maine, and they removed that exemption in 2019. Don’t know if that was where you were at the time though.

                  1. I’ve got no reason to disbelieve you.

                  2. I started college in the 90s, obviously went to grammar school before that, and I’ve lived on both coasts. So who knows that the rules were at the time. Doesn’t matter. They are what they are now, and from what you’ve said people who don’t want the vaccine can opt out. Nifty. Now I’m trying to remember why it mattered.

                  3. Overt, not that simple. In 44 you can do that for religious reasons, but only 14 for philosophical reasons. So, no doubt you can lie and probably get away with it, but the exemptions is very limited.

                    1. They are not very limited at all. And I note that at no point have you admitted that you were 100% wrong about there being a mandate. You have just attempted to shift the goal posts. Your inability to admit your error is keeping you from enlightenment. I recommend you improve that.

                    2. Overt , that’s a judgement call, but I think it pretty clear that if only 14 states allow an exemption on philosophical grounds, that means way more than half require religious objections. Maybe you’re OK with people lying about that – assuming they can without pulling up church doctrine in support – but otherwise, most people will not have a religious reason.

                      Apparently you prefer to argue this on procedure, since you are losing on moral and logical grounds. Your freedom to be an a..hole does not trump low risk and high reward act of getting vaccinated.

                    3. you must be exhausted…though I suppose constantly moving goal posts around can be good exercise.

            3. I don’t remember needing vaccination records. I had them but wasn’t anything I ever turned in for any level of college. There was an online registration check that asked yes or no but that was it.

            4. Correct.

              It is a big deal to create a new vaccone mandate where none existed before.

            5. That is simply not true.

        2. this was decided in 1905 by th SC and we have had vaccine mandates ever since

          Of course, that was for vaccines that, you know, actually prevented the vaccinated from becoming infected.

          Here, by the way, is the study that you were lying about yesterday with your link to the CDC.

          https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

          1. Chuck, I did not lie about anything regarding my CDC link, nor do i accuse you of that in linking this article. From your article:

            “Thålin and other researchers stress that deliberate infection among unvaccinated people would put them at significant risk of severe disease and death, or the lingering, significant symptoms of what has been dubbed Long Covid. The study shows the benefits of natural immunity, but “doesn’t take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point,” says Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, Seattle. COVID-19 has already killed more than 4 million people worldwide ….

            The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated. ..”

            The study on which it is based is “pre-print”, meaning not peer reviewed, and the methodology was based on surveying records which may have unintended errors from health care seeking behaviors.

            1. Fuck off and die, steaming pile of lefty shit.

            2. Of COURSE Pfizer only provides the best, ethical and unbiased studies and would immediately stop making shitloads of money if the vaccines was… Oh, more lethal than every FDA approved vaccine since 1990 put together.

              We can blindly trust all provided information from these wonderful altruists who delivered this panacea to us!

              Oh wait, vaccinated are getting sick and dying too.

              1. Salted, no vaccinated are not dying like unvaccinated. Read a newspaper or go visit the local ICU and talk to the docs.

                1. Hey, asshole! Fuck off and die!

                  1. No thanks, but you go ahead.

                2. When did I say that, you projecting piece of dried shoe-shit?

                  Reading conprehension fails you regularly, I note.

                  What is irrefutable is that the vaccinated are catching the virus, they are spreading it and they are dying of it. The mortality rate has varied with each variant, but 95% still are the elderly and fatties.

                  There is no reasonable justification to force the majority of the population, who are expected to handle it just fine, at risk with the deadliest vaccine in decades.

                  1. Salted, that’s wrong. The vaccinated get covid less frequently than the unvaccinated which means they are less likely to spread it, and of those who do get it, the odds of having to go to the hospital or dying are both much lower..

        3. You mean the SC that ruled black people are property?

          1. Spiritus, unlike the black men are property principle, the 1905 ruling on vaccine mandates has never been overturned.

            1. Why are you discriminating against black women and other non-binary black people. The Dredd Scott descision cover all black persons, not just men. You are such a bigot.

            2. Also, Dred Scott was never overturned by the SC. It was invalidated by the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments.

            3. Stuff your head up your ass Joe.

            4. Because it largely hasn’t been tested, and do you know why? Because states have generally had Objector exclusions that allowed people to avoid the non mandate.

              But please, Joe, keep making conclusory statements on facts you only know because your Reddit echo chamber told you.

              1. As noted above Overt, I’m glad to hear you’re OK with vaccine mandates with exemptions for religious beliefs, though I don;t think the religious should enjoy rights and exceptions not availlabe to non-believers.

                1. though I don;t think the religious should enjoy rights

                  See how that works when people don’t address your entire argument, you fallacious fellator?

                  Actually that’s a bad example because the rest of your sentence is just a vacuous qualifier containing a double negative that doesn’t change the meaning of the portion I quoted. You really don’t think religious freedom is justified.

                  1. Thought you had me muted chuck?

                    I said “I don;t think the religious should enjoy rights and exceptions not available to non-believers.” That’s a complete thought I stand behind. You think the religious should have special rights?

                    1. Thought you had me muted chuck?

                      Yes, I get it, it’s all about you.

                      And I clearly have a problem letting your fallacious garbage stand unchallenged. And so I challenge you:

                      1) You didn’t address the double negative, which, when removed, clarifies your message: “I don’t [sp] think the religious should enjoy rights and exceptions… available to… believers.”

                      2) You didn’t address the unnecessary qualifier. Even your original “not available to non-believers” is superfluous when the subject is “the religious” and there are no other subset of rights and exceptions being considered. Which reduces your message to: “I don’t [sp] think the religious should enjoy rights and exceptions…”

                      3) “Exceptions” is also superfluous in that it is well documented that religious exceptions are predicated on the existence of a right (1A: “make no law… prohibiting the free exercise thereof”), and there is no need to consider anything antecedent when the predicate has not been established. Which reveals your statement to be: “I don’t [sp] think the religious should enjoy rights…”, and my previous post stands defended.

                      4) Additionally, you propose that I defend something I never stated, “the religious should have special rights”, having never actually identified any right the religious have that is not available to the non-believer, let alone establishing what the newly introduced and vague qualifier “special” signifies.

                      This is the part where I get to call you a disingenuous cunt again unless you want to address my logical analysis of your “complete thought [you] stand behind”, which I have a high degree of confidence is not in conflict with what you actually believe.

                    2. Of course Sock Friday wont respond to this.

                    3. chuck, I’m not wasting more time on a jerk who calls people he’s never actually met but who have tried to be reasonably polite in debate foul names. Sorry, but I forgot how to diagram sentences and have no interest in learning it anew. My meaning is clear – yours isn’t – and includes the fact that I did not claim you had a position on the issue or that I knew what it was. Clearly the religious have rights in this country not available to those who don’t believe in supernatural beings. I get you may like that, but if you deny it you’re just wrong, and obviously so.

                      Buh bye.

                    4. I’m not wasting more time on a jerk who calls people he’s never actually met but who have tried to be reasonably polite in debate foul names.

                      You prefer your insults less direct like your veiled references to white trash? You consider that polite?

                      Sorry, but I forgot how to diagram sentences and have no interest in learning it anew.

                      No idea what you are referencing. The ability to refute your bullshit just comes naturally. And, “anew”? Really? Who says that?

                      My meaning is clear – yours isn’t

                      Your meaning was not clear, hence the analysis. If you found the analysis lacking in clarity, perhaps you should read it again and let me know where the flaws lie.

                      I did not claim you had a position on the issue or that I knew what it was.

                      “You think the religious should have special rights?” is literally formulated as a claim with a question mark at the end.

                      Clearly the religious have rights in this country not available to those who don’t believe in supernatural beings.

                      Your belief in a thing does not make it true. [smirk]

                      if you deny it you’re just wrong, and obviously so.

                      You didn’t even provide an example, let alone frame a logical argument for the claim, but I am “obviously” wrong?

                      Buh bye.

                      So, no, you are not interested in dialogue, just trolling and dismissing those who disagree with you if they fail to be polite. As if continually posting fallacious nonsense and incorrect fact checks is somehow polite.

                      You might take notice that calling you a disingenuous cunt only occurs when you fail to respond in good faith. But since you have yet to do so, it is still appropriate.

                    5. Chuck, I think it should be self evident now that I don’t back down from discussion or even smack. It’s fun for me, but you’re a jerk who’ writes seemingly complex sentences about simple things and the result is nonsense. I’ve already responded twice to you and you don’t get the simple ideas. I’m not doing it 3 times.

                    6. You don’t back down from shitposting. Changing topics and goalposts is not debating.

                    7. I think it should be self evident now that I don’t back down from discussion or even smack.

                      Either you don’t choose words for clarity, or you don’t understand what self-evident means. You have displayed no intent to have an honest discussion and have whined continually about smack.

                      I challenged you, provided analysis of your claim showing that it was unsupported and without example. Your response consisted of an ad hominem attack, an incoherent excuse, 2 new unsupported claims (both of which I showed to be false), the repetition of your original claim for the third time (rephrased, but still without example), and a final unsupported claim that I was “obviously wrong”.

                      Your latest response consists of even more insulting insinuation while you pretend to politeness. I am a jerk; I write seemingly complex sentences; I don’t get your simple ideas; you are not doing it anymore.

                      Here is the thing:

                      I “get” your idea. I also understand that if you continue to waffle you never have to defend it. If I provide you with a pre-emptive counterargument, you can respond by attacking my character, shifting the goalposts, or retreating behind the “you misunderstood me” defense.

                      I intend to show that only one of us is engaging in honest discussion, and it isn’t you. Prove me wrong.

                2. “I’m glad to hear you’re OK with vaccine mandates with exemptions for religious beliefs,”

                  It isn’t a mandate if I can easily avoid it. And I can. Your attempt to call it a mandate so that you can use it to claim that we’ve always had mandates is both fallacious reasoning and a transparent attempt to dodge admitting that you were wrong.

                  1. Overt, you can’t easily avoid it in all but 14 states, at least if you don’t think lying about a religious belief is “easy”. Sometimes you have to justify that with doctrine. The clear proof is the number of exemptions for kids going to school or to universities is exceedingly low, much much lower than for covid where unfortunately there are few mandates so far.

                    1. Shorter Joe: mandates are totally cool and we need to give the government more power to rule our lives and make us less free. Religious freedom is for fools and “my body my choice” only applies for killing babies.

                    2. Steevie, the government thankfully already has the power to mandate vaccines, or you and I may have suffered a debilitating or deadly disease and not still be alive. I’m waiting for them to exercise that power on the fools refusing to get their covid shot.

                      I’m all for religious freedom, meaning the right to services and practices without persecution or the punishment or restriction of the government, which don’t otherwise violate our laws. I don’t favor an escape clause for ignoring laws because some spirit told you to, while another person who wants to ignore it based on what he thinks is sound reasoning may not. Unlike getting a vaccine, abortions can be difficult choices best left to individuals. There is nothing tough about getting a shot now proven safe to keep from catching a now proven deadly disease and helping to spread it.

                    3. I’m waiting for them to exercise that power on the fools refusing to get their covid shot.

                      You mean the one that craps out after 6-8 months?

                    4. Red Rock, gee, I’m really sorry that the world’s scientists couldn’t have devised their very effective vaccines so they would be more convenient for your use. I don’t know how you stand it in a world where you get pizza at your door in 30 minutes.

                      I have an idea! Let’s forget this science crap and just let whoever you get your information from on Facebook figure it out! What do you say?

                    5. Red Rock, gee, I’m really sorry that the world’s scientists couldn’t have devised their very effective vaccines so they would be more convenient for your use.

                      Gee, I’m sorry your “vaccines” are utter shit.

                      I have an idea! Let’s forget this science crap and just let whoever you get your information from on Facebook figure it out! What do you say?

                      Your Science! is certainly crap, that’s for sure.

          2. Or that protesting war was equivalent to shouting fire in a crowded theater.

      2. Shouldn’t Joe and more people be mad at China? Rather they are mad at folks who aren’t vaccinated but may for a short period of time or have had it or never have it the disease from china. Strange you are mad at people for being affected or not affected by something China did. Wow.

        1. MT-man. It is unlikely that China deliberately released the vaccine, but if they did, of course I would be mad, to put it mildly. Enough people in the US are deliberately avoiding their fairly simple responsibility to help control the pandemic.

          1. Joe, stuff it up your ass so your head has some company.

          2. It is not my responsibility to curtail my life to protect fatties.

            But if it is… Let’s keep the BS going and kick out anyone with a communicable disease from public. Let’s get colored stars to denote the unclean of AIDS. Let’s block fatties from using public hospitals because they take a disproportionate share of medical care. Let’s keep government eyes on everyone, everywhere to be SURE we’re safe.

            Or you can fuck right off, slaver.

            1. Salted, nobody is asking you to curtail your life. Get your shot – won’t be the first time you’ve done this under threat of a mandate – and wear a mask in closed public spaces.

              1. You just said above you wanted to curtail people’s lives, you moronic shitstained leftie who’s been getting buttfucked daily by his wife.

              2. Fuckwit, you’ve been endorsing lockdowns and mandates this whole time.

                You disingenuous shit. Fuck right off, slaver.

          3. The simple responsibility of personal responsibility. If you are a fatty, lose weight. Fatties have had a year and a half to drop the weight. What are they weighting on?
            If you are in a high risk category, take appropriate precautionary measures such as getting vaccinated. Your body, your choice.

            1. “What are they weighting on?”

              LOL! Good One!

    2. They are making it exorbitantly expensive to go anywhere of distance in a car too. Or have you not noticed these are the same people that want to make everyone drive an electric car?

      But hey, why do poor serfs need to travel outside their district anyway, right slaver?

      1. Taxes for electrics coming soon!

      2. Something tells me that Joe wouldn’t mind a Hunger Games scenario.

    3. In addition to being wrong on the morality and freedom of these mandates, Joe is also just plain wrong on language.

      “restriction on traveling domestically is not in question, , just on traveling in small closed cylinders with others in tight quarters called air planes and trains.”

      Perhaps Joe doesn’t see that “No restrictions on Traveling” and “We are only restricting traveling of a certain type” are…you know…mentally incoherent.

      To put it simpler, Joe: We travel by plain and train. If you restrict that, you are restricting my ability to travel, because it is a form of travel I could have previously taken. To say you AREN’T restricting travel despite the fact that it is totally a restriction on travel is doublespeak.

      1. Overt, stay off our planes and trains.

        1. Stick your head up your ass, shitbag.

        2. You didn’t build that, shitweasel.

        3. Look at that- call em out on his mental incoherence and all you can get is “Stomp my feet like a toddler”

        4. Joe, step in front of a speeding train.

          1. No thanks Red Rock and I’d advise you don’t either, though your strategy on Covid bears certain similarities.

            1. Yeah. Fatties might be too slow to avoid the train or COVID complications.

      2. Then get your shot Overt and get on board. There is no logical reason not to except you want to do the drama queen bit about your “freedom”.

        1. Faggot dirty sock decides what is freedom and for whom.

          In other words you’re an authoritarian douche who would bend over for any tyrant even if you didn’t get the reach around.

        2. I notice you didn’t try to explain or clarify your statement. Thanks for proving you’re an authoritarian slaver.

    4. No, restriction on traveling domestically is not in question, just on traveling in small closed cylinders with others in tight quarters called air planes and trains. Don’t want to get vaccinated, drive your car, ride a bike, or walk.

      So you don’t care if legions of infected cross state lines, just as long as they don’t fly. Science!

      1. “That’s correct.”

      2. That’s funny – but sadly Joe’s logic.

      3. mad, can’t do anything about that.

    5. Fuck you, go back to China.

    6. No, restriction on traveling domestically is not in question, just on traveling in small closed cylinders with others in tight quarters called air planes and trains.

      Air circulation and cleaning on planes is so effective that you don’t have to worry about COVID no matter what. I don’t know about trains but only privileged government drones take those.

      Don’t want to get vaccinated, drive your car, ride a bike, or walk.

      Why? What rational reason is there to distinguish the vaccinated and the unvaccinated? That kind of policy made sense originally, when people hoped that vaccinations would prevent spread, but as it turns out, the vaccine failed to deliver.

      If you’re vaccinated, you still get infections and you still spread the disease, but you are less likely to show symptoms. In contrast, the unvaccinated either have natural immunity or detectable symptoms during infection. That likely makes the vaccinated the primary drivers of spread.

      1. That likely makes the vaccinated the primary drivers of spread.

        You came to an obvious conclusion supported by the statistical data available?

        This is the point where the Triffid people open their mouths and make that horrible noise.

    7. Why not extend it to car travel too, joe? Gas stations and rest areas could become very dangerous! Just like the football stadiums we’ve seen the last few weeks with 10s of thousands of maskless, screaming fans! Oh noes! Haha.

      Don’t be such a pussy, joe.

  6. Of course, if you are one of the Elite, you have nothing to worry about. Get on your private jet and zip zoom to wherever you want.

    First the Elites short changed our highway system for mass transit.
    When that caused higher traffic, they subsidized the purchase of their expensive cars that got free access to the Carpool lanes. They jacked up the price of energy, too, with renewable mandates and anti-nuke stances- then subsidized their own purchase of expensive solar panels for their house. The DOJ will throw every technical infraction at you to get you to testify against a political enemy, while covering for the Epsteins and Nassars who molest your children, and the Bidens who fleece the tax payer.

    Now, as their mask mandates make flying so miserable that people increasingly start fights on planes, and the option of having a drink to relax is verboten, I can’t wait to see what special privileges the Elite confer upon themselves to avoid paying the price of their regulations. Sure they have their private jets, but those can be expensive. What subsidy will they think up to lessen the burden on the Enlightened Ones?

    1. It’s a not-so-well-hidden secret that you don’t have to be particularly rich or elite to travel privately by air. Yes, *jets* are expensive to purchase and maintain, and it’s costly to learn to fly them and keep current. But for less than twice the price of a new pickup truck you can own a relatively modern (less than 40 yo) reciprocating single engine airplane in airworthy condition that will cruise over 200kt and is certified to fly in instrument conditions. You are freed from dealing with TSA and the increasingly rude and incompetent commercial airlines, you are no longer forced to land at major metro airports that may be 50-100 miles from your final destination, and you go when *you* want, weather permitting.

      I spent about $8000 training for my private pilot certificate and in 2015, for $10,000, I purchased a simple aircraft that cruises around 105 mph. I have already used it to travel across the continent and back. It’s faster than driving (but not much) and vastly more enjoyable. If these restrictions go into effect I’m cashing in my retirement account and buying a four-place that can travel more like 240mph, and I’m never going near commercial air travel again. And I’m vaccinated! I will just never comply with a mandate like this.

      1. It’s sounding more attractive for those healthy enough physically and financially. And as you point out, not as expensive as people think.

        However, I suspect if comprehensive controls on interstate travel were put in place, politicians would rush to close the private aircraft “loophole”.

        And that pilot license needs periodic renewal, right? Not hard to imagine what might get added to the list of medical requirements. They could just add a paragraph that one must be in compliance with all current CDC guidelines.

        Let’s hope it doesn’t get there.

      2. Chartering is not out of reach, and you get to thumb your nose at TSA if you travel to GA airports. And Uber makes ground transport a snap.

  7. Celebrities, politicians and other wealthy people will of course be exempt from this.

    1. Except for former POTUS Obama and the mayors of DC and San Francisco. They would never ignore these life-saving sacrifices we all must make.

      1. Celebrities acting badly is not your excuse to do so.

        1. Get fucked with a chainsaw. shitbag

        2. But politicians ignoring the rules makes it plain they don’t believe the rules are necessary. You don’t find that at least a little bit curious? Do you believe that all of those people are suicidal?

          1. Enjoy, once vaccinated, most of the “rules” protect others, not the person observing them. Your mask is more effective at keeping you from spreading the virus than it is in keeping you from getting it, which is why it is necessary for most to all persons in an area to ear one to be most effective.

            1. Hey, Joe! Fuck off and die!

            2. Fair enough but you’re dodging the point of the question. Apparently our “leaders” don’t believe that the rules are necessary to keep from spreading the virus. It’s not what you say, it’s what you do. So, again, don’t you find that curious?

              1. I don’t like it enjoy, but it doesn’t change anything about how citizens should act or give us license to be dicks.

                1. Hey Joe!
                  Fuck off and die, lefty pile of shit!

            3. Also, by that standard, when the celebrities and politicians are having their big wing-dings where they don’t mask but the servants do the “upper” classes are putting the working people in danger. The servants’ masks won’t protect them; so apparently only the wealthy and privileged deserve to be protected? And you think that’s okay?

              1. Enjoy, I already told you I don’t think that’s OK, but it has no bearing on how I think I, or other citizens should act.

                1. Joe, stick your head up your ass.

                2. You’re still missing–or ignoring–the point.

                  1. Enjoy, I understand your point, but the greater point I think is what we do about the pandemic.

                    1. Okay, let’s look at that.

                      When your “leaders” tell you “we must do X” for the pandemic, but then they don’t do it, they are obviously lying to you. They don’t believe a fucking word of what they just said. I can’t make it any simpler than that.

                    2. Even if you could, Joe wouldn’t admit anything or acknowledge it.

            4. Masks are not effective in preventing the spread of COVID through a population.

              Vaccines are likewise not effective in preventing the spread of COVID through a population.

              Vaccines are effective in preventing serious disease in individuals, which is the reason (and the only reason) people should get vaccinated.

        3. Of course not, we unsophisticated louts know we’re unclean.

          Fuck you, slaver.

        4. Democratic Party politicians showing the proletariat that it is about control and not about public health protection. FTFY.

        5. Celebrities acting badly is not your excuse to do so.

          On the contrary–they’re on your side, which is exactly why it should be done.

    2. The best is the pictures with the connected, rich celebrities partying it up with the help in the background wearing masks. And according to “the experts”, the masks don’t protect you, they protect others.

      And then to hear people defend this behavior!

      “But surely all the beautiful people are fully vaccinated!”

      “They’re obviously 6 feet apart!”

      “But it was the glorious historic reunion of Toni Tony Tonee!” (that was SF Mayor London Breed, my favorite).

      To see the hypocritical behavior of the well connected exposed and then defended, in a time when average people have lost so much (businesses ruined, school lost for the kiddos, etc), thoroughly disgusts me.

      But apparently loyal, obedient Democrat voters like being reminded of who their betters are.

  8. Your Freedoms end when they infringe on others. Public health is always one of those exceptions. What is “freedom” about spreading disease and sickness to people? That infringes upon others. Restrictions are fine if they aren’t arbitrary or discriminating. Sorry the Freedom argument when it comes to vaccines is silly.

    1. Flawed retort. Apply that to everything you do and rethink your post.

    2. “Your Freedoms end when they infringe on others…”

      Retrace your path for the last year or so; your brains leaked out. Oh, and fuck off and die.

    3. Thank you for making the point against your presented argument.

      Stop infringing my freedoms, fuckwit.

    4. I’m not sick. Thanks.

    5. Excpet this vaccine does not stop you from spreading covid to others.

    6. You have no obligation to protect others from nature, fuckwit.

  9. But, JD! You were so upset about that last POTUS, you’d have done anything to get a replacement.
    Well, asshole, you got one.

  10. Fuck Joe Biden and fuck his train fetish, guess I’ll drive until we can vote every single slaving prog out.

    1. Biden’s not a slaving prog. In fact, he was a conductor on the underground railroad.

      1. I just spit my soup. +1

  11. “Freedom of movement within and between states is constitutionally protected. The right of Americans to travel interstate in the U.S. has never been substantially judicially questioned or limited,”

    While not specifically in the constitution, the SCOTUS upheld the right in Saenz v Roe.

    1. Rights don’t have to be listed specifically in the Constitution, as the 9th Amendment makes clear.

      “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

    2. SCOTUS also enumerated interstate travel as a right of all free men in Dred Scott v Sanford. Nobody likes to cite that case for some reason.

      For if they were so received, and entitled to the privileges and immunities of citizens, it would exempt them from the operation of the special laws and from the police regulations which they considered to be necessary for their own safety. It would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognised as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, singly or in companies, without pass or passport, and without obstruction, to sojourn there as long as they pleased, to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation, unless they committed some violation of law for which a white man would be punished; and it would give them the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went.

      Oh, and the right to keep and carry arms wherever we go. Chief Justice Taney identified that as a right of anyone recognized as a citizen in any one state of the union in 1856. Today? [crickets]

  12. “We’re on our way to having to ask for permission to go about our daily lives.”

    You asked for extended (endless?) childhood, you got it.

  13. “Permission to cross a national border can be granted or withheld.”

    Whoa there. Are you looking to get fired or something? This is not the accepted stance of Reason. Nor you, now that I think about it.

    1. Good point, how will the Koch-suckers get their imported slave labor force?

  14. We shouldn’t have covid passports for any travel. They are pointless and just reduce tourism. No upside. Only harm.

  15. The left is completely into the Stalinist gig, so they must be removed from any positions of power in government, corporations, media, the military, and IC. Do not comply, and fuck Joe Biden.

    1. buckleup, Stalin did not make his name by requiring Russians to get vaccinated, or if they didn’t, not letting them on planes.

      1. You’re an idiot. There’s no point talking to you, so I’ll just keep reminding you until something clicks. Or you go away.

      2. Stalin did not make his name by requiring Russians to get vaccinated

        Ah, but Stalin did make his name by dispossessing property owners and interfering with the right to private contracts.

        Has Joe Biden already done this and is the Congress considering it at this very moment? Why, yes they are.

      3. Stick it up your ass, JF.

  16. Don’t Import Vaccine Mandates for Domestic Travel

    Why not? This is what the majority of Americans voted for and they deserve to get it good and hard.

    The harder the better.

    1. No – but keep pretending the election was honest.

  17. The lack of domestic travel restrictions, even during the COVID peaks in early 2020, late 2020, and mid-2021 is also a clue that no one in power was actually overly concerned about the pandemic. A few states like New York checked out-of-state license plates at first, but air travelers were welcomed, and New Yorkers fled to Florida.

    A real shutdown lasting 3 or 4 weeks to stop the spread would have been a lot more effective, and less costly, than a mask mandate and laws destroying small businesses and landlords and 2, 4, or 6 trillion dollars in bailouts. And would have certainly been implemented if COVID-19 were as dangerous as CNN made it out to be.

    1. All true, but then we’d just be getting hammered later, rather than sooner.

      The Wuhan Flu is globally endemic by now.

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  19. Awww, I have to shot proof of vaccination if I wanted to visit Chicago to witness murderland, but the Haitians who camp under our bridge don’t need proof of vaccination and can be released by the busloads.

    You know me, I believe impeachment should reserved for near treasonous behavior. And as far as I’m concerned, Biden is 5 times more impeachable than Donald Trump.

    Oh by the way, hundreds if not thousands of Americans are stranded in AFG. An American president evacuated the ENTIRE military before taking out all American civilians from a hostile territory.

    Isn’t it fun? Isn’t it fun to watch the so called unbiased media present news from the alternative universe, where the top story is too many white people winning Emmys and border patrol whipping Haitians? A little more than half of the country are clowns.

  20. Well yes, we have a right to freely move about – but we don’t have a right to travel on a specific plane, train or bus.

    1. And who makes those decisions?

  21. “As frustrating as it is to those of us who believe in the right to freely roam, international travel is treated as a privilege subject to regulations, document checks, and the whims of government officials.”

    Hold up. The right to freely roam within a country is separate from the “right” to travel abroad. In an American context, one can make a solid case that the Constitution allows people to travel freely between states, but international travel is 100% a privilege. Foreign governments are well within their authority to determine who is or isn’t allowed to cross their borders. One can even argue that this is one of the bedrocks of national sovereignty. So whine all you want about COVID-era rules and regulations; at the end of the day, nobody is entitled to enter a country to which they are not a citizen or legal resident.

    1. “at the end of the day, nobody is entitled to enter a country to which they are not a citizen or legal resident.”

      Libertopians disagree.

      But, they are not serious people.

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  23. My problem here is that a vaccine mandate of any type inevitably ignores that survivors of the virus are actually immune to it, as contrasted with the vaccinated who are just likely to not get it as badly. Not treating those who have survived the virus at least as well as those who have been merely inoculated with a novel gene treatment is irrational, and, ultimately, shouldn’t even pass rational basis review.

    Besides, we have some goal post moving. The vaccines are supposedly mandated because of public safety – except they don’t reduce the spread of the virus, because you can still get sick with the virus after having been vaccinated. It is a non sterilizing vaccine, as contrasted with the normal vaccines we deal with that are sterilizing. All these COVID-19 vaccines seem to do is reduce the severity of the disease. And that potentially benefits the one vaccinated, but does little for the public at large. So, where is the public health benefit?

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