More Fans Can Easily Bet on the NFL Than Ever Before

Convenient online sports betting is legal and live in 14 states.


When the full slate of NFL games kicks off on Sunday, more people than ever before will be able to legally place a wager on games in the country's most popular league.

Bettors in 11 states now have convenient access to online sports betting with multiple sportsbooks (Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming). Five of those states have launched online betting in the last 12 months.

Three additional states offer online betting, but only with one sportsbook (New Hampshire, Oregon, and Rhode Island). Online betting is also legal in Illinois and Nevada, but with the totally unnecessary inconvenience that bettors must first register in person at a participating casino. Iowa previously had the same requirement, but allowed it to expire in January 2021. Combined, that amounts to 14 states with easy access to sports betting, plus two where it's a little inconvenient.

Some states, such as Connecticut and Louisiana, are working to open online sports betting by the end of the year.

Regulations and available sportsbooks vary by state—for example, in Virginia, bettors can't gamble on any game involving an in-state college, but Arizona does allow this. But for the most part, sports fans in the above states can bet on whatever games they want, including all the major U.S. sports leagues and even things you never even considered, like Estonian soccer or Australian football (these are all real options at the BetMGM sportsbook).

For the time being, the four most populous states in the country are missing out on the fun. What baby steps California has taken toward legalization would still only allow in-person betting at certain casinos, and probably not until 2023. Mobile betting in New York is in the works and should be launched in time for Super Bowl LVI in February 2022. Florida is launching in-person betting at Seminole casinos in October, but mobile betting faces an uphill battle of lawsuits. Texas legislators were too busy requiring teams to play the national anthem to make any progress on sports gambling.

For what it's worth, online sports gambling in Washington, D.C., is legal but only through the D.C. Lottery and its terrible betting lines. Other than that, bettors can place online bets with Caesars Sportsbook and BetMGM—but only within two blocks of Capital One Arena or Nationals Park, respectively.

Sports betting of all sorts was largely illegal across the country until May 2018, when the Supreme Court struck down the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act of 1992. Before that law, only a few states had legal sports betting (and were grandfathered in), and it was basically impossible for the masses to place bets, unless you happened to know a sketchy bookie.

Hopefully by the time the Super Bowl LVI champions unveil their banner and kick off the 2022 NFL season, more states will decide to treat sports fans as adults and allow online betting for entertainment (or, if you're lucky, winning money).

NEXT: Cubans Rose Up. America Should Step Up.

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  1. Pot, asssex and now gambling.

    1. PS: Fuck Joe Biden.

      1. It got to him. Joe actively is complaining about fuck Joe biden signs.

        Jewish Deplorable
        Biden on what he’s thinking about on 9/11:

        “What would the people who died be thinking? They think it makes sense to be doing this kinda thing where you ride down the street and see a sign that says ‘F so-and-so’?”

        1. You mean Biden thinks it’s unseemly to be saying nasty things about our elected officials? I think I missed the part where he condemned people talking shit about Trump back in the day.

          1. Oops, silly me! Of course Biden wouldn’t condemn people talking shit about Trump the way they talk shit about elected officials – Trump was never an elected official but instead was installed by Putin thanks to the massive election fraud perpetrated by Russia.

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        2. They would probably think “Fuck Joe Biden.”

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      3. Curious, where did this “Fuck Joe Biden” thing come from?

        1. Tell me you’re ignorant without… nm. Youre just ignorant. 2 weekends a row and you don’t know.

          1. I’m serious, where did it come from? Is this some 4chan prank or something?

            1. Yeah, it’s impossible for chemleft to conceive that millions of Americans can say “Fuck Joe Biden”, without some sort of JournoList or Open Society Foundation organizing it, like they do on the left.

              1. And fuck Joe Biden.

                1. While we’re at it…….. fuck Chemjeff.

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            2. Jeff. How about you google it. It has been a national story for 2 weekends of sports at this point dummy.

              Then again, anything that attacks the left is qanon to idiots like you.

              1. His progressive masters haven’t briefed, or told him what to think yet.

        2. Fuck Joe’s bidettes! Better?

        3. Probably from Kammy.

        4. Curious, where did this “Fuck Joe Biden” thing come from?

          Birthers needed a new schtick.

          1. Now if Joe Biden were a 12-year old boy, you’d get all behind that statement.

          2. A Buttplug medley:

            Little hellions, voters feeling lousy
            Embarrassed the GOPers still listen to Pelosi
            They start feeling like prisoners helpless
            ‘Til Trump comes along on a mission and yells, “Bitch!”
            A visionary, MAGA is scary
            Could start a revolution, polluting the airwaves
            A rebel, so just let them revel and bask
            In the fact that they got all the proggy’s hating their ass (*smack*)​​
            Joe’s a disaster, such a catastrophe
            See his old withered ass go —”you voted for me?” (No!)
            Well, America’s back, na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na
            Fix your bent antenna, tune it in, and then MAGA’s gonna
            Enter in, and up under your skin like a splinter
            The center of attention, back for the winter

            Well fuck Joe Biden, yeah fuck Joe Biden
            It’s the Biden administration that we all be hatin’
            And watch old Buttplug please tear up
            Please tear up, please tear up

        5. Who cares? It’s funny, catchy, and what’s not to disagree with it?

          1. Oh, and Fuck Sleepy, Creepy, Crazy, Cranky, Tankie, Corn-Pop, Lunch-Bucket, Basement-Bunker, Shotgun Joe Biden!

      4. On the contrary, may Joe Biden do what he promised to do.

        I. e., preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States and faithfully executive the office of President of the United States.

        If he does *that* he would of course have to repudiate the unfortunate things he’s been doing and reverse course. But I’m sure he’s man enough to admit if he made a mistake.

        If he does this, everyone will be shouting, “God Bless Joe Biden! And God bless us, every one!”

    2. Bills and give the points all day long. Lock of the day.

      And fuck Joe Biden.

      1. Carolina only -4 vs jets is the lock

      2. Whoops! Barely covered mine though lol.

      3. You lost straight up, Mikey.

      4. You botched that pick. Was it Biden who suggested to you to take the Bills?

    3. Betting on a wide receiver could mix gambling and ass sex.
      And yes, Fuck Joe Biden.

      1. Wouldn’t you prefer a tight end to a wide receiver?

        1. The tight end will usually complete the pass, hence having the tight end designation. It is easier to score with a wide receiver.

      2. Yeah, but Bob Nelson might want to claim the winnings. He did that back in the Eighties.

    4. And now, with DoorDash and the like, you don’t even need to leave to get some of what that tasty, diverse cuisine food truck is offering. As for this? Yay, we can participate in authorized casino and sports gambling.

      Remain in pod, and consume. That’s what’s really important here.

      1. Yeah, but the food truck doesn’t serve bugs. And Robin DeAngelo and Ibram X. Kendi can’t make anyone like bugs.

  2. Panem et circenses.

    Or in Huxleyan terms, soma and sex.

    And now sports betting.

    1. Huxley was closer to how the collapse would commense.

    2. Pornosec and Victory Gin nod in approval.

    3. I was going to make much the same comment – this sounds very much like the “circuses” part of “bread and circuses” and you’d better hope you can do well on the gambling because you’re not going to be able to afford the bread much longer.

      1. The Byzantine equivalent of political parties was factions cheering for the two chariot-racing teams – I think it was the Greens and the Blues. On at least one occasion they came close to overthrowing the government. To be fair, it was the closest the masses could get to *real* political participation.

  3. Panem et circenses.

    Or in Huxleyan terms, soma and sex.

    And now sports betting.

  4. Biden thought it was a good idea to disparage wall street workers during the 9/11 memorials.

    And so it’s all tied. And meeting with these people — you know, I know you’re all tired of hearing me say, you know — a lot of good folks on Wall Street, but they didn’t build the country. Hardworking middle-class folks built this country, and the unions built the middle class. It’s about time we start showing them some real respect again.

    1. “It’s about time we start showing the little people some token respect again”

      Pretty ballsy, seeing as his party and it’s core demographic have been a talking about the working class like they’re farm animals or invasive species for the last twenty-five years.

      Probably to late to stuff the class-hatred genie back in its bottle, Joe.

    2. The follow-up should be asking him if he will eliminate income taxes for the middle class. It is least he could do to thank us for building the country. Yes Obama, we did build this.
      And Fuck Joe Biden.

    3. Do the people in NY and DC realize that if there were another attack on this cities nobody would care?

      1. If unvaccinated are forced to stay at home, with no travel and work allowed, a plane flying into an office building would kill zero unvaccinated.

  5. Inflation has hit major industries.

    But if younuse Joe’s logic from last week, if you exclude all areas of rising prices there actually isn’t any inflation.

    1. “…if you exclude all areas of rising prices there actually isn’t any inflation.”

      Worked for Clinton, and the BLS. ‘But muh hedonic adjustment!’

    2. since 2010 huh? No one remembers the inflation that year because it was insignificant.

      Also, 2009 was a depressed downturn just like 2020 was.

      Its almost like prices rebound after a shitty recession.

      Hey Jesse, put together an economic paper on how prices rebound after an economic shock. I bet no one on the right has never noticed it before.

      1. You’re such a conniving lying twat child rapist. And you have no concept of economic reality.

        You should really kill yourself. If not, it is my hope that someone does to you what was done to the child rapist in ‘Law Abiding Citizen’.

  6. Great those with the least resources and most to lose can give up more money to amoral billionaires.

  7. Online betting is probably the only way that the NFL can get people to start watching its football again.

    Having millionaire racist take a knee and wipe their asses with the flag, probably didn’t go over as well with their customers as they hoped.

    1. I suspect there’s a lot of pent up demand. Disney announced that it’s releasing the rest of its movies in theaters only for the foreseeable future after Shang-Chi did so well with all the pent up demand. I was surprised by those numbers, too. Especially after they took such a hit with Black Widow, I thought they were fully committed to home streaming now. And it isn’t that the movie theater is a better experience for the most part. The things that were killing movies before are still working against them now. It’s just there’s a ton of pent up demand. People want to get out of the fuckin’ house.

      Anyway, we might expect to see some pent up demand for football at first, but I bet it drops off. Let’s see where the viewing numbers for week four are compared to week four in 2019, and I bet they drop. Of course, it wouldn’t surprise me to see ticket sales and broadcasting viewership drop earlier in the season for the reasons you stated either. When I go to Padres games and see all the open displays of patriotism, especially on military Sundays, when they march in the latest batch of troops and serenade them with the Marines’ Hymn, and I’m thinking–this is the NFL’s target audience. How’d you like to be the Chargers right now trying to negotiate your way back into San Diego? You still want the taxpayers to underwrite your America-hating stadium–are you kidding?!

      1. Nothing more America-hating than supporting free speech.

        1. Its not like you support shooting trespassers in Capitol building for protesting.

          1. Yeah, I don’t know what the comment was, but supporting the shooting of unarmed protesters has been unpatriotic since at least 1770.


            1. How did anyone know, in the moment, that Ashli Babbitt and the rest of the mob behind her were unarmed?

              1. Because they weren’t. And there was no evidence to suggest that they were. That is the standard of care.
                Biden must have assumed the two kids he war crime drone strike murdered in Afghanistan maybe were armed because how could he know?

                1. Fuck Joe Biden. Even they guy they droned on purpose was an aid worker packing water jugs for his family.


                  1. The guy was doing a better job in Afghanistan than botcher Joe, so Joe decided to murder him. Fuck Joe Biden.

              2. That’s some real police reform for ya right there, folks. Shoot them all in the face because they might be armed

              3. The 3 other cops on the other side of the door with their cops down as can be seen in the video of the shooting you retarded fuck.

                Her two hands being on the window with no weapons you retarded fuck.

            1. “She might have brought on some of this herself, don’t you think, by trying to take the Capitol building by force.”

              —-The White Knight

              January 14, 2021


              What’s worse, pretending that an unarmed protester was “taking the Capitol by force” or blaming the shooting of an unarmed protester on the unarmed protester?

              Projecting violent intentions on an unarmed protester is evidence of a moral defect. Gotta justify your immorality somehow, and if that means pretending that an unarmed protester is taking the Capitol by force, so be it? But blaming the shooting of an unarmed protester on the unarmed protester has gotta be worse, though–and it’s certainly more unpatriotic per the Boston Massacre.

              If the progressives were to start marching libertarians against the wall for protesting, she might acknowledge that we were unarmed, but I bet she’d still say it was all our own fault for protesting on public property.

              Progressivism is a sickness. Yeah, they’ll try to rationalize shooting unarmed protesters and defend democracy in the same breath! And it isn’t just that progressives will rationalize literally anything. It’s also that that they’re eager to do so. Rationalizing the murder of unarmed protesters makes them feel like they’re doing some good in the world! This is another reason why progressives are America’s most horrible people.

              1. Same question for you: how did the police officers guarding the Speaker’s Lobby know that the mob breaking through the door was unarmed

                Just because you know it after the fact, doesn’t mean they knew it.

                1. What evidence did they have to suggest, imply or reasonably suggest that they were armed?
                  If they thought the protesters were armed why did the three other LEOs leave just a few minutes before Babbitt was murdered?
                  This isn’t the cop that shot a kid playing laser tag at night believing the laser tag gun light was a muzzle flash. That incident is at least debatable.

                  1. She doesn’t care whether she’s wrong or right.

                    She doesn’t care about the facts.

                    She doesn’t care about whether she’s irrational or rational.

                    She’s not here to teach us anything. She’s not here to learn anything. She’s not here to contribute anything. She’s not here to share anything. She’s just here to disrupt.

                    People like her are why we have a mute button.

                    1. “She doesn’t care about whether she’s irrational”

                      Of the two of us, which one is acknowledging that the police officers had no way of knowing the violent mob breaking through the Speaker’s Lobby door were unarmed?

                    2. That isn’t the requirement for shooting someone you statist fuck. This is embarrassing at this point.

                    3. “Of the two of us, which one is acknowledging that the police officers had no way of knowing the violent mob breaking through the Speaker’s Lobby door were unarmed?”


                      Good old “shoot first, and let God sort them out” school of policing. Even your excuses are fascist.

                    4. I like replying with “caw” puns. Otherwise the progressive imbecile would be muted.

                2. “for you”

                  LOL, both comments were by Ken. He does that a lot.

                  1. No he doesn’t.

                    Listen Mike, can you just fuck off? Seriously.
                    We’ve all sat and watched you chase Ken around, trying to harass him off the board and it’s fucking sickening.

                    And if your boss won’t let you, then how about we make a different deal? You up the grade of your gaslighting a little bit, and we’ll all stop telling you to fuck off as much.

                    Every day you come here and try and play rhetorical tricks a toddler would see through. It’s frustrating.
                    Instead, drop the middle-school sophistry and come up with real, defensible positions for your arguments. Respect the intelligence of the other people here. And if you don’t actually know, for fuck’s sake don’t opine.
                    This will require doing a lot more reading and research on your part. You can’t just rely on your talking-points emails anymore.

                    But I think ultimately you’ll be happier, and we all won’t be so repulsed by you.

                    Think it over.

                    1. We’ve all sat and watched you chase Ken around, trying to harass him off the board and it’s fucking sickening.

                      Why are you white-knighting for Ken? It’s not like he’s any more entitled to be here than Mike, or you, or me, or anyone else.

                    2. He asks as he white knights for white mike

                    3. I think she’s hurting the progressive cause.

                      I don’t remember seeing anyone respond to her as if she said anything persuasive or even reasonable.

                      If all she does is spaz out and say stupid shit, then, ultimately, she’s trolling herself.

                      Oh, and I think the idea that she’s getting paid is giving her the benefit of the doubt. That’s a good explanation for why someone would act like they’re obsessed for so long. Another possibility is that she got her whole sense of the world rocked, and she’s lashing out at her deprogrammer like a Moonie.

                      Tony did that for a long time, too. Not having thought things through is how people join the progressive cult in the first place. When you hit people like that with facts and logic, there comes a point when they need to face themselves in the mirror. Most of them just go away. Some of them become trolls. The other options are unthinkable to most of them–that’s the one where they change their mind. That’s what psychologically healthy people do.

                      To be persuadable and persuasive, though, you need care about the facts, care about logic, care about whether you’re right or wrong, you have to be here to learn or be here to teach us something. She’s not capable of that. And she’s demonstrated it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. And all she’s doing at this point is making progressives look stupid.

                    4. Wow, for you to be accusing anyone else of white knighting is the height of hypocrisy.

                      Why am I asking White Mike to fuck off? The answers in my response?

                      Why am I sick of you, White Mike and sarcasmic’s harassment of Ken? Everyone is. It’s a repellent thing to watch.
                      You little monsters really are disgusting.

                    5. Ken is not immune from criticism. Why do you think questioning his arguments is tantamount to ‘harassment’? He’s not a god you know.

                    6. True, Ken isn’t immune to criticism, but that isn’t what you and White Mike have been doing.

                      You and Mike launched a little crusade against him that quickly turned into trolling every single fucking thing he wrote.
                      You didn’t ever really argue against him. Half the time you were claiming dog-whistles, “Actually Ken meant X”, and the other half of the time you were flat out lying.

                      That’s not fucking criticism in anyone’s book, Jeff. That’s flat out trolling and harassment.

                    7. You and Mike launched a little crusade against him that quickly turned into trolling every single fucking thing he wrote.

                      First, that’s not true.

                      Second, even if it was – SO FUCKING WHAT? Why do YOU give a shit about it so much? OH NO SOMEONE IS TROLLING SOMEONE ELSE ON REASON COMMENTS, IT IS AN OUTRAGE! Have you heard of Tulpa? His entire raison d’etre is trolling people. Have you heard of Jesse? He trolls me on a daily basis.

                      I think you have elevated Ken to the status of Team Red Clan Leader and are circling the wagons around him, like a good little tribal drone. He’s now a part of “your tribe” and so you feel like you must defend him.

                3. There were literally 3 cops on the other side of the door you ignorant authoritarian statist.

              2. Same half-thought-out right-wing taking points, and same b.s. of calling me a progressive, even though I’m a standard-issue libertarian.

                There is a gaping LOGICAL flaw in your analysis. The officers didn’t know the protestors were unarmed.

                1. White Knight Liarson is TOTALLY consistent, y’all.

                  remember when he said Chauvin should have stayed on top of Floyd, because he might be armed?

                2. Youre not a libertarian. Stop gaslighting.

                3. Fuck Joe Biden and Fuck Mike Laursen.

                  1. Lol, Fuck Joe Biden and Fuck White Mike.

              3. There is a huge difference between grabbing people off the street and standing them up against a wall to be shot, and stopping a violent mob from breaking into an area where there are people whom you are protecting from harm.

                Ashli Babbitt could have avoided being shot at any time, by not trying to crawl through the broken glass. She was on the attack.

                To not acknowledge these things is disingenuous, and illogical.

                1. Did officer Barney Fife have to retrieve his firearm from the toilet this time?

              4. Projecting violent intentions on an unarmed protester is evidence of a moral defect.

                Oh, so now we are at the stage of rationalization where we pretend the mob wasn’t even violent? We don’t need to project anything. Their own actions demonstrate a willingness to commit violence.

                They assaulted officers, they broke through windows, they vandalized the building. This is not violence now? This is a “protest”?

                “OH, but BLM did all that, and worse!”

                And YOU ALL condemned it for the violence that it was. But now when it’s YOUR TEAM committing the violence, now it’s downgraded to a mere “protest”.

                You know what is a moral defect? Attempting to justify one’s own immoral actions according to the immoral actions of someone else. “If THEY got to do it, then *I* get to do it too!” THAT is the moral defect, Ken.

                No one should forget that it was ASHLI BABBITT who was the aggressor. ASHLI BABBITT broke into a building without permission. ASHLI BABBITT crawled through a broken window to try to disrupt the electoral process. She was not some random person on the street shot by an officer. She was committing acts of violence and aggression against the Capitol Police when she was shot. Argue all you want whether the officer was justified in shooting her. But don’t try to gaslight us with your attempted canonization of St. Ashli.

                1. Hey Jeff. There is fucking video of the lobby. Note the 3 cops with weapons down? God you leftist statists are shit.

                  1. We can’t have an adult conversation on the subject until and unless you admit that Ashli Babbitt was the aggressor committing acts of violence, and the officer shot her in an act of self-defense. Once you are ready to acknowledge these FACTS, then we can have a discussion about whether the self-defense shooting was justifiable or not. But if you are going to continue to pretend that Ashli Babbitt is a martyr, then no one ought to even attempt a serious conversation with you on the topic.

                    1. The discussion is what constitutes a capital offense and allows for shooting.

                      Based on what you claim babbitt did, then every BLM protestor with an ice filled water bottle, lasers, fireworks, batons, knives could have been shot on sight.

                      So let’s discuss.

                    2. Based on what you claim babbitt did

                      It is not a mere claim. It is a fact. She broke in. She committed acts of violence. It is not up for discussion. It is time for you to acknowledge reality.

                    3. I want to hear you say:

                      Babbitt was the aggressor.
                      The officer shot her in an act of self-defense.

                      Until you freely acknowledge this reality, there cannot be any other meaningful conversation with you on this topic.

                    4. The only serious conversation one can have with you is to shoot you in the face and ask questions later.

                    5. Don’t avoid it jeff. Could cops have opened up fire on blm? Yes or no?

                      Ashley had no weapons. Her hands were both visible.

                      Being an aggressor isn’t a capital offense no matter how badly you want it to be. Floyd was an aggressor by that standard.

                      Why are you avoiding the issue?

                    6. And it wasn’t in self defense you fucking statist. Again. 3 cops on the side of the door from which babbitt was on were standing still weapons lowered.

                      How fucking dumb are you?

                    7. Well, you are halfway there. At least you acknowledge that Babbitt was the aggressor.

                      So in your mind, why did the officer shoot her, if not in self-defense?

                    8. “Babbitt was the aggressor”

                      You fucking maniacal gaslighting liar.
                      Do you think we can’t see the video? The only thing remotely being threatened was a locked door. Nothing else.

                      This is exactly the kind of stupid middle-school sophistry I was talking about. Instead of coming up with a valid argument, you try to tell lies a toddler would see through.

                    9. I can’t believe how fucking dumb you are jeff. Being an aggressor isn’t reason for a shooting.

                      Could cops gave opened fire on blm when they were far more violent? Yes or no.

                      Were both her hands visible im the window? Yes or no.

                      Don’t avoid the questions you dishonest shit.

                      We are talking about when the state can execute a citizen here. You are defending it. Because you support the state. The life of the officer was never under threat. Ever.

                    10. Being an aggressor isn’t reason for a shooting, but she wasn’t even aggressing anyone. A door isn’t a person.

                      Don’t let that psychotic fuck pull you into playing along with his suppositions.

                    11. Jesse, you sure do have a problem with answering direct questions.

                      In your view, why did the officer shoot Ashli Babbitt, if not in self-defense?

                    12. she wasn’t even aggressing anyone.

                      She literally broke into the building.

                    13. Jeff accuses me of not answering direct questions when he has not answered once??? What the fuck is wrong with you jeff. I’ve asked you plenty of direct questions.

                      No. It was not in self defense you ignorant fuck. The officers life was never at risk. Her hands were visible and empty in the window. I’ve answered this you dishonest shit. Likewise there were 3 officers who agree with me as they were in the same room as babbitt and didn’t even have their weapons drawn at her.

                      Now answer the fucking questions you keep avoiding statist fuck.

                    14. And the officer shot her because he is an incompetent piece of shit. The same dumbas who led this loaded revolver unattended in the bathroom jeff.

                      Now answer the fucking questions you are avoiding jeff. You know you’re argument is sophistry. So answer.

                    15. This video seems to contradict your view of things.


                      There were numerous attackers at the door beating down the windows trying to gain access to the hallway. It wasn’t jut Ashli standing alone, helpless and innocent. The officer was clearly trying to defend the hallway against the onslaught of attackers. Once the doors were breached, that is when the fatal shot took place. And the other police in the hallway DID have their guns drawn. Ashli may not have had anything in her hands but the entire rest of the mob standing around her did, they had clubs and flag poles and other implements that they were using to beat down the doors.

                      Once again, it was Ashli and her fellow rioters which created the dangerous conditions where the lethal use of force by the defenders even became an option in the first place. No storming the capitol = alive Ashli. You are criticizing the defenders of property for defending property against aggressors who weren’t supposed to be there in the first place.

                      If this had been any property invasion of almost any other kind, virtually everyone here would be giving the benefit of the doubt to the defenders of the property in situations like these. What was the officer supposed to do? Do nothing, let the mob break in with their clubs and potentially beat him too? The officer’s drawn weapon was clearly visible, and that was obviously not enough of a deterrent for them to stop their attack. What was the ‘correct’ option here? I don’t think it is unreasonable to believe that the officer was fearful of what the mob would do if they managed to gain access to the hallway.

                      This is NOT about “the state executing a citizen”. This is not capital punishment, there was no trial and no jury. This isn’t some cop beating up some helpless motorist who did nothing but exceed the speed limit. This is about a property defender, defending property against attackers. And that you frame this issue as one of “incompetent cop shooting a mere unarmed protestor” is why you can’t be trusted to discuss this issue honestly. You IGNORE the entire angry mob beating down the door with their clubs. You LIE about the cops having their guns drawn.

                      And if some BLM mob, or any other mob, had violently broken into a building and were trying to gain access to property that they had no business being in, you bet that the property defenders would be justified in using lethal force, if absolutely necessary, to stop the property invasion from happening. We can have legitimate disagreements about what “absolutely necessary” means precisely, but we first must understand what actually happened here:

                      Ashli & Co. were the aggressors violently breaking into the building, ALONG WITH a violent mob
                      The officer was one of the property DEFENDERS, trying to stop the violent aggression from continuing.

                      You cannot publicly acknowledge what actually happened so you do not deserve to be taken seriously on this matter.

                    16. Jeff. There were 3 cops on that side of the door and maybe a dozen people milling about. No guns or weapons seen in the video.

                      The way you can lie about what is on video is astounding.

                      Now answer the fucking questions above as you demanded me.

                      Blm was violent aggressors using actual weapons, could cops have opened fire?

                      Were ashli babbitt hands visible on the window sill unarmed?

                      Answer the questions jeff.

                    17. Jeff, you said Rittenhouse is guilty of murder. He was shot at multiple times before his first shot and hit in the head with a skateboard before firing his others.

                      Was it self defense jeff? Answer you dishonest shit.

                    18. There were 3 cops on that side of the door

                      who arrived AFTER the shooting

                      and maybe a dozen people milling about.

                      There was no one “milling about”. They were a violent mob trying to break down a door. Why do you try to white-wash what the mob did, when we can all see for ourselves what took place?

                      No guns or weapons seen in the video.

                      Bullshit. The officer’s gun was clearly visible as well as the guns from the officers rushing up the stairs. AS WELL AS the flagpoles and helmets that the mob was using AS WEAPONS trying to break down the door.

                      So I am not going to discuss BLM or Rittenhouse with you because it is pointless. You cannot even bring yourself to accurately describe a video that I put in your face and presented to all to see.

                      Ashli Babbitt was not shot because she, in isolation, alone, presented a threat. She was shot because she was a part of a violent mob who, COLLECTIVELY, DID present a threat. So trying to discuss what was or wasn’t in her hands is stupid.

                      And if the officer was not acting in self-defense, and instead according to you acted incompetently, what was the ‘competent’ thing for the officer to do? Leave? Let the mob beat him once they breached the door?

                  2. We should start thinking about the psychological health of someone that refuses to admit that there’s a problem with shooting unarmed protesters.

                    Facts, logic, etc. aside–why bother trying to persuade someone of something so basic?

                    There’s a mental block of some kind.

                    The syllogism starts:

                    General Premise: Shooting unarmed protesters is wrong.

                    If you can’t even get to the first premise, why bother going to the specific premise about how Ashli Babbitt was an unarmed protester? Whether she refuses to admit that shooting unarmed protesters is wrong because she fears the obvious implications for Ashli Babbitt for rational reasons or not, persistently refusing to do so for eight whole months–is that what’s happening here?

                    That isn’t about facts or logic. That’s about someone who doesn’t care whether she’s wrong or right.

                    1. At this point, what are her options?

                      1) Change her mind?

                      We’ve already talked about how she isn’t capable of that and why: doesn’t care about right or wrong, logic or irrationality, facts, etc.

                      2) Should she accept that she’s the kind of moral defective who apologizes for shooting unarmed protesters?

                      Somehow, despite all facts, logic, propriety, and human empathy, she needs to live with herself–what are the other options really Psychologically, she may really believe that she’s right somehow–in her heart–despite all those things.

                      Eichmann may have gone down thinking he was a genuinely good person for similar reasons.

                    2. “That isn’t about facts or logic. That’s about someone who doesn’t care whether she’s wrong or right”

                      Any normal human would at this point Ken. That’s how we know that these guys are paid to be here.

                    3. “Any normal human would at this point Ken.”

                      And I’ve conceded that. It’s a rational explanation. I’m not saying it isn’t true.

                      Another likely candidate for consideration is that she isn’t normal. Obsessive people sometimes behave abnormally. We may be dealing with someone who could benefit from professional help.,

                    4. She fixates on you. She wants to be a progressive version of you. Which is impossible because you use logic and provide support for arguments. She just has emotion.
                      And emotion is ok when one understands it. “I bought this cool but impractical car. I get that I had much more useful choices but I liked this on the most.” But to buy an impractical car then argue that it is practical won’t make it so.

                    5. The idea that facts and logic were important is what blew her circuits. She started out making fun of me for hiding behind facts and logic. When she realized we were serious about facts and logic, she started attacking logical fallacies. Yes, really. She started arguing that logical fallacies that have survived 2,400 years of intense scrutiny somehow had it wrong. That the fallacies themselves were wrong! After that came the meltdown.

                      So, once you’ve melted down, where do you go from there? A psychologically healthy person would just leave, but she’s so fixated, she can’t. She just purposely subjects herself to everyone’s scorn, thread after thread, month after month, as if someone is about to suddenly realize that her emotional imaginings are a valid response to genuine rationality anchored in the real world. It’s hard for people to accept that their heartfelt beliefs are cultish fantasies. They’s rather stay in Plato’s cave and look at shadows on the wall than see the sun.

                      One of her problems is the same contradiction in every progressive. On the one hand, they imagine themselves the good-intention champions of the people, but on the other hand, they hate the very idea of respecting the agency of individuals who don’t feel the way they do. Ultimately, you can’t really care about real people and hate their right to believe, say, and do as they please (so long as they aren’t violating other people’s rights).

                      The Ashli Babbitt story is illustrative. She can’t square herself enthusiastically advocating the murder of Ashli Babbitt with anything resembling human empathy. Her hatred of average people exercising their rights and her hatred of Ashli Babbitt are basically the same thing. Progressives can’t square their hatred of average people with their emotional appeals because that’s unsquarable–and it makes them psychotic. Defending the murder of unarmed protesters for trespassing on public property isn’t empathetic or emotional. It’s just psychotic or psychopathic, or it’s delusional.

                      And progressives like her still want to imagine that they’re the good guys! We’re the bad guys for not buying into their delusions.

                      Tony will go so far as to argue that Jews didn’t have a right to their lives during the holocaust and that Rosa Parks didn’t have a right to sit in the front of a public bus–rather than admit that individuals posses rights regardless of whether the government says so. AND he’ll psychotically contend that our rights don’t really exist in the name of caring about minorities and civil rights! Part of it is because they really do want to use the government to violate our rights in so many basic ways–from our property rights to our speech rights. It all still rests on the foundation of the psychopathic disconnect between supposedly caring about people, on the one hand, and hating them, on the other, for possessing and exercising their rights.

                      The desires of average people and their freedom are the enemy, and if we don’t violate their rights using the coercive power of government, then the poor little average people will never be free!

                      The thing I say that seems to irk her the most is, “Progressives are America’s most horrible people”. It offends their sense of themselves as the good guys. It gets straight to the heart of the matter–and it’s true. There is very little difference between advocating violating the rights of average people who don’t feel the way you do, advocating for the murder of Ashli Babbitt, and being evil. And they can’t look at themselves in the mirror.

                    6. Her hatred of average people exercising their rights and her hatred of Ashli Babbitt are basically the same thing.

                      Oh this is just a load of horse manure.

                      Who here HATES Ashli Babbitt? Anyone? I haven’t seen a single person here who said that they HATE her.

                      And let’s not forget, Ashli Babbitt HAD NO RIGHT to be in the building in the first place. She was not merely “exercising her rights”. She was breaking the law and she, along with a violent mob, was trying to break down a door with clubs and poles, trying to force entry through locked doors into a hallway.

                    7. Progressives really are the worst people. And Fuck Joe Biden.

                    8. Maybe we should all start using it as a tag line!

                      Did you guys hear the latest on the infrastructure bill?

                      P.S. Progressives are America’s most horrible people.

                    9. Sure why not.

                      Around here, “progressive” just means one of three things:

                      1. Nothing more than a lame insult, like “doodyhead”.
                      2. The most extreme caricature of every progressive, like if AOC and Bernie Sanders had a love child, or something
                      3. Someone who identifies *culturally* with actual progressives – went to college, lives in a big city, has a professional job, eats avocado toast, always going to cocktail parties in Georgetown, etc.

                      But it doesn’t actually mean what genuine progressives believe, or acknowledging their genuine intentions.

                      So sure, go ahead! Doodyheads are definitely terrible people. Extreme progressive caricatures are terrible people. And snooty elitist Georgetown cocktail party goers sure do seem like terrible people too.

                      But your neighbor or your friend, who has progressive views but who is otherwise a decent guy? Is that person a terrible person just based on his/her beliefs?

                      And, would you want your progressive friend/neighbor to think that YOU were a terrible person, only because of your libertarian beliefs and not based on the content of your character?

                      If you don’t want others thinking that YOU are a terrible person, because they think you are nothing more than a libertarian caricature, then maybe you shouldn’t be telling big swaths of the country that they are terrible people because you refuse to see them for who they are, and instead just look at them as caricatures.

                    10. You’ve done nothing but lie and peddle bullshit here, chemjeff. You advocate for late-term abortion, CRT, censorship, and cops shooting unarmed women based on a phony “aggressing a cop” narrative.

                      You’re living proof that progressives, are evil, terrible, garbage people.

                    11. ML, I will give you a small modicum of credit: at least you are willing to state what you are affirmatively in favor of. Unlike Jesse who just bitches and lies and engages in whataboutisms and usual bullshit trolling.

                      You advocate for late-term abortion,

                      I do? Since when?


                      I don’t advocate for CRT. I think (1) it is an idea that has some merit and worth considering among the panoply of ideas that exist on the subject, and (2) it shouldn’t be banned in schools, because no idea should be banned from schools. But according to Team Red that is the same as being a 100% partisan in favor of it, because you all have a real problem with black/white thinking. Masks, vaccines, CRT, abortion, transgenderism, there are only two possible choices, and when reality doesn’t conform to this simplistic binary choice, then that is suspicious evidence of malfeasance or corruption.

                      Either masks must work 100%, or they are completely useless. Either vaccines must work 100%, or they are completely useless.
                      Advocating (not mandating, just advocating) for wearing masks or getting vaccines that don’t work 100% is sinister proof of corrupt intent.

                      Abortion must be banned 100%. Any legal abortion is proof of evil intent by people who hate babies. There is no gray area or nuance. Either abortion is banned, or you hate babies.

                      CRT is pure Marxism and must be banned 100%. Any defense of any idea within CRT, or even opposing banning the idea, is proof of evil intent by radical Marxists who hate America.

                      Transgenders are mentally ill and must be given mental health treatment 100%. Any questioning of this premise is proof of evil intent by “the gay lobby” which hates straight people and want to force cis-individuals to have sex with trans-individuals.

                      It just goes on and on like this. It is a simplistic binary worldview that just gets tiresome after a while.

                      You all need to actually meet people. In real life, not online. And not just people in an echo chamber. You remind me of me before I went to college and was exposed to worldviews that were absent from my very small world before college.

                      I absolutely used to believe that abortion was 100% murder and it should be banned. Then I learned about the nuances and the complexities of the issue. I don’t think it should be banned 100%, but perhaps there should be some limits on it, and moreover, I’m a lot more humble in trying to dictate to others what the “correct position” ought to be on the matter. Maybe there isn’t one single “correct position” at all.


                      On private property? I absolutely support the right of private property owners to censor whatever they want on their property. Don’t you?

                      and cops shooting unarmed women based on a phony “aggressing a cop” narrative.

                      Ashli Babbitt was committing aggression in the same sense that the word is used when discussing the NAP. She had no right to be there. She entered the building without permission and was trying to break through a set of locked doors. She went FAR beyond mere “trespassing”. What would you call it?

                      And now, about your beliefs. You’ve previously said that you want mob rule. I think the French Revolution dispelled the wisdom of that approach, and if you want a more modern example, just look at Jan. 6. Do you really want the mob to be deciding elections and to hold power? The mob is fickle and easily led by the nose by demagogues (such as Trump, or Obama, or any number of people). Why do you think you will get favorable treatment from the mob?

                  3. “She literally broke into the building”

                    Breaking into a building (Which is a total fucking lie. Security opened the doors and let her and most of the others in), ISN’T AGRESSING ANYONE, you mendacious gaslighting fuck.

                    The penalty for trespassing isn’t a self-appointed firing squad last time I looked at the laws surrounding it.

                    Honestly folks, look at this dishonest piece-of-fascist-shit. He can’t fucking tell the truth even when his own fucking video flat-out shows that he’s lying.

                    Nothing about you is honest Jeff, everything you say is a lie.

        2. Supporting = approval in White Mike’s world.

          If you’re not a prog, it’s possible to hate what they’re doing without demanding they be censored, Mike.

          I’d also be curious to know if you plan on extending this strange new respect for free speech you’ve just discovered, to people who think the election was fixed, or who discuss Covid miSInfoRmaTioN.

        3. You don’t support free speech, Nazi Asshole Mike.

          1. Aren’t you the guy who wants to execute Big Tech CEOs for sedition?

              1. Hope you aren’t holding your breath.

        4. A democrat policy that you support. You’re an enemy of free speech.

      2. “Anyway, we might expect to see some pent up demand for football at first…”

        All you, bro. Those guys let me know over the last eighteen months, exactly what they think of people like me and you too, I suspect. I have much better things to do with my money and more importantly my limited time, than to kill a weekend watching a bunch of people who dislike people like me, play with a ball in a taxpayer-subsidized stadium.

        Fuck. Them. All.

        But if you want to spend your time that way, have at it.

        1. Meanwhile, the Padres are playing the Dodgers today, and this is what the Padres do at home games on Sundays during the 4th inning stretch:

          You can see the Marine recruits in the upper deck of the right hand side of the stadium. This is the kind of thing I used expect to see growing up outside of Annapolis.

          This isn’t the kind of behavior people associate with crowds of Californians, but sometimes it seems like a very small slice of the population gets about 99% of the press.

          Anyway, yeah, the NFL needs to go balls out patriotic for a very long time before they get any more of my money. Like I said elsewhere, if the NFL ever thought they might like to come back to San Diego and try for a new taxpayer financed stadium, they probably already know that bridge has been burned.

          1. “You can see the Marine recruits in the upper deck of the right hand side of the stadium. This is the kind of thing I used expect to see growing up outside of Annapolis.”

            They got free tickets. I’d rather go to the LitterBox too, instead of climbing Mount Motherfucker one more time. Good for those recruits.

            It’s not indicative of the attitudes of the players, the management, the owners, or their collaborators in sports media, broadcasting, and advertising. Do you need to hear “the Black National Anthem” again to understand what they think of you? ( Yeah, I know that’s the NFL. MLB is no less woke.)

            1. They’re still in training. They’re marched in and out of stadium and to their seats. I think they’re still technically in boot camp and just about to leave.

              “It’s not indicative of the attitudes of the players, the management, the owners, or their collaborators in sports media, broadcasting, and advertising. Do you need to hear “the Black National Anthem” again to understand what they think of you? ( Yeah, I know that’s the NFL. MLB is no less woke.)”

              I think it is indicative of the attitudes of the management, the owners, their collaborators in sports media, and the advertisers–in San Diego. It’s also indicative of the attitudes of the fans. It’s a Navy town. Biotech Beach is big in San Diego, but so is the Navy and so are the defense contractors.

              If you want to disgrace the national anthem or the flag, you probably want to do it somewhere else in California. Yeah, they still skew Democrat, but the split between Democrats and Republicans is closer the split between them in Orange County rather than the hard split of Los Angeles and San Francisco.

              San Diego is further to the right than places like Minneapolis or Chicago.

          2. How come the NFL isn’t sending out free passes to the masses in the hood? Black lives matter but only far away from stadium attendance.

            1. Why is the NFL having its gear made in other countries. Requiring the gear manufacturers to produce the goods in depressed, inner city neighborhoods would send the message that they believe what they say.

      3. On Disney’s decision I have to wonder how much of that is limiting their risk of additional lawsuits over the dual releases.

        For Football I have to wonder how much pent up demand there is to be disrespected in person at the cost of hundreds of dollars when the hone viewership is declining. Why would I go out to a target of totalitarian hassle and overreach when I don’t have to?

        1. “On Disney’s decision I have to wonder how much of that is limiting their risk of additional lawsuits over the dual releases.”

          Bingo. ScarJo should have them over a barrel, if her contract was as advertised. They know it, and her position likely isn’t unique among Disney’s talent.

        2. I think they earned really good returns on a couple of movies that were released in the theaters, are they find the theater chains more lucrative than streaming. I think they’re trying to maximize profits.

          Still, I bet giant flat screen TV sales went through the roof during the pandemic, and when I watch at home, there’s no talking, there are no sticky floors, there’s no problem with parking, and the food at home is fantastic.

          Oh, and streaming costs less for a month than a single movie for two. They were turning to streaming because they had to, and one of the reasons consumers are moving to streaming is because it gives Hollywood less of their money.

    2. Can we root for CTE?

      1. Um . . . depends on the player and the team?

      2. CTE, easy as one two three.
        Take a knee, I’ll pray for thee
        That you will be with CTE.

    3. The NFL is generating billions in revenue each year. They will be just fine without the racist fans who don’t like those “uppity ni… I mean spoiled millionaires” protesting respectfully.

      1. Who watches the anthem part of an NFL broadcast anyway?

        The NFL didn’t kiss the fat ass of McDonald Trump so his cult has to try to cancel the league. Trump trash are pussies.

        1. Not watching =/ trying to cancel.
          Some folks don’t want to see political messages in their entertainment.
          Assuming nobody took a knee this weekend to highlight a white person dressed in a gorilla mask throwing an egg at a black gubernatorial candidate. If the woman had been wearing a MAGA hat and the candidate were progressive, the league would have worn an armband.

          1. Some folks don’t want to see political messages in their entertainment.

            So when are we going to get rid of the National Anthem at sporting events, or continual ‘support the police/military’ messaging during sporting events?

            Oh, wait. YOUR political messages are fine, it’s EVERYONE ELSE’S political messages that are off-limits.

      2. Hey KAR, you’re in good company with your new buddy, Buttplug. You two can compare notes on raping small children.

        1. How’s Spokane traitor?

          Have you faced a court martial yet? The sooner the Biden admin can weed far right anti-American extremists out of our military the better.

  8. “Online betting is also legal in Illinois and Nevada, but with the totally unnecessary inconvenience that bettors must first register in person at a participating casino.”

    Nothing happens in Nevada unless the casinos want it to happen, and the casinos don’t want residents of Nevada betting with the competition’s apps. Last I checked, you also can’t play in daily fantasy leagues in Nevada. They wanted FanDuel and DraftKings to register with the Nevada gaming board, which is controlled by the Nevada casinos like everything else in the state. It isn’t just that nothing happens if the casinos don’t want it to happen; it’s also that everything they want to happen happens.

    1. Harry Reid needs his rent.

      1. The politicians are representing the casinos in that state.

        You didn’t hear a blip about the lockdowns in the state from the casinos presumably because they were the ones who wanted the lockdowns. So much easier to lay off unionized workers en masse when the governor or the health department or the mayor is making the order.

        Meanwhile, they fire people at the drop of a hat for ticking off customers, etc. The labor laws are written by the unions, and the unions are in bed with the casinos. Meanwhile, all reports are that life in Las Vegas isn’t half bad.

        Plenty of affordable housing. Lots of high paying jobs for low skilled workers when times are good. The casinos are more tolerant of personal freedom than the government might be without them, but understand that the casinos are running everything.

        Or, at least, they’re running everything they care enough about to want to run.

        1. Which is why we still can’t legally play online poker 10 years later.

    2. If I were those online betting companies, I would just not do business in NV.

  9. Won my first legal bet on Aussie Rules. We took a step into modernity with legalized sports betting in Arizona on 9/9. Good times.

  10. Great thread summary of the patience of Americans being out after Biden’s running out of patience speech.

  11. It isn’t just that nothing happens if the casinos don’t want it to happen; it’s also that everything they want to happen happens.
    Watch Hottest Indian Web Series For Free

    1. But that wasn’t the hottest Indian website…

      1. Dalamia’s only fans sight?

        1. My eyes!!! The goggles, they do nothing!!!

          1. Watch as she take in all the immigrants

            1. Shit, tea spit all over my keyboard, asshole.

  12. I’ll give you until Monday to report on the most enraging story of the year, Reason. Monday.

    1. They already did report on the 1/6 Capitol attack.

      1. Lol. Say you’re a statist without saying you’re a statist.

        1. Why don’t you just go out and finally admit that you support mob rule overturning an election whenever the mob feels like it.

          1. The election was never under threat of being overturned dumbass. The cops were armed, protestors were not. Politicians were removed. The whole show in congress is not even a constitutional requirement for a transition. There were a thousand police on site against unarmed people. There was never a threat.

            There was far more of a threat with blm riots with them torching cities and committing murders and assaults. They made government bow to their whims. How ignorant are you?

            1. No, now you are conflating what the mob was trying to do, vs. what their probability of success was. I agree that their probability of success in trying to overturn the election was very low. But that IS why quite a few of them – not EVERY SINGLE ONE, but quite a few of the mob – broke in. Once again you need to acknowledge reality and join us here in the real world instead of what the right-wing echo chamber whispers into your ear.

              1. You are the one who keeps claiming factually it was a threat despite knowing the protestors were armed. Youre being a sophist again.

                1. You tell me, Jesse.
                  Why did the mob break into the Capitol? On Jan. 6, of all days?
                  Was it for a self-directed tour, and they just HAPPENED to pick the day that Congress was certifying the election for their “tour”? Just a giant coincidence?

                  1. Let’s talk for a second about both Trump’s confirmation and inauguration in 2017. On both those occasions protesters broke into the Capitol and smashed shit.

                    How come you’re not calling those “dangerous threats to democracy”, but when the exact same shit happened in 2021 you suddenly have the vapors?

                    1. On both those occasions protesters broke into the Capitol and smashed shit.

                      I don’t believe that is correct. No one broke into the US Capitol building on Trump’s inauguration day. But if you think I am mistaken, please provide a citation which shows otherwise.

                      And, there is a difference between random vandalism and property destruction, and property destruction with the intent to disrupt the peaceful transition of power between administrations. If you disagree, then I guess you must think that the Reichstag Fire was no more significant than a random act of arson.

                    2. And here jeff tries to narrow down an argument to the point he can justify his statist tendencies. Note he ignores the Kavanaugh protestors despite Supreme Court Justice hearings also being a constitutionally defined activity of congress. Let’s watch him ignore the point.

                    3. ML: Why don’t you talk about the mob that stormed the Capitol during Trump’s inauguration?
                      Me: Umm that didn’t happen.
                      Jesse: WHY DO YOU IGNORE THE KAVANAUGH HEARINGS???? HUH????

                      God it gets so tedious with you two.

                    4. “I don’t believe that is correct”

                      Here you go, asshole.


                      “Six police officers were injured and 217 protesters arrested Friday after a morning of (lol, mostly) peaceful protests and coordinated disruptions of Donald Trump’s inauguration ceremony gave way to ugly street clashes in Washington.

                      At least two DC police officers and one other person were taken to the hospital after run-ins with protesters, DC Fire Spokesman Vito Maggiolo told CNN.

                      “That’s different because reasons” – t. chemjeff

                    5. Maybe remind me again how many cars got torched on Jan 6, 2021, Jeff.

                      Trump inauguration: Violent protests in Washington DC

                    6. Inauguration Day Protesters Clash in the Streets of DC – ABC News

                      “OMG, INSURRECTION!!! THEY’RE SUBVERTING DEMOCRAC… Oh wait. Dissent is the highest form of valor, you know” – t. chemjeff

                    7. Trump inauguration protest damages parts of Washington DC

                      Remember how the Jan. 6 MAGA protesters were armed with crowbars and bats, threw bricks and molotov cocktails at people, government buildings and businesses, destroying storefronts and destroying vehicles?

                      Oh wait, that was the 2017 Trump inauguration protesters trying to stop the inauguration. Doesn’t count, right chemjeff?

                    8. ML, you wrote:

                      “Let’s talk for a second about both Trump’s confirmation and inauguration in 2017. On both those occasions protesters broke into the Capitol and smashed shit.”

                      None of your links validate your claim.

                    9. Oh, and ML, why do YOU think the mob broke into the Capitol on Jan. 6? Was it just a pure coincidence that the election certification was taking place that day?

                    10. 1. They didn’t “break in” they were let in, as hundreds of video recordings show. You always have to try and sneak a little lie in there, huh.

                      2. They were already there for a rally, unlike when your lot purposefully planned the riots for Trump’s inauguration.

              2. With no weapons, completely unarmed, against a fully-armed, 2000-man Capitol Police force.
                What a retarded sociopath you are. Telling lies a kindergartener would laugh at.

                1. What did they plan to do with the zip ties? Why were they in there?

                  I realize you gotta stick up for your fellow fascists, but they’re traitors.

                  They shouldn’t be punished hard though. Their leader needs to be held accountable. However Kevin McCarthy seems to think obstruction of justice is fine.

                  However he’s not doing anything according to you, but Twitter, Facebook, and the Biden administration are totally in cahoots because they make decisions you fascist don’t like.

                  You’re evil dude. Seek help. Do they not have healthcare in your rural shithole?

                  1. Oh fuck! Did you really decide to go with the zip-ties you retarded fuck?
                    Did you stop watching the news back in February?

                    The Capitol riot’s ‘zip-tie guy’ took the plastic handcuffs from Capitol police, prosecutors say

                    “Eric Munchel, a pro-Trump rioter who stormed the Capitol building while holding plastic handcuffs, picked up the restraints from a table inside the Capitol building, prosecutors said in a court filing Wednesday.”

                    So he picked them up from a table inside the Capitol. What does it feel like to have all your narratives fall to shit, you stupid fuck.

                    1. So he picked them up. What was he gonna do with them?

                      Why did they have a noose and chanting “hang Mike Pence?”

                      There’s no reasoning with a gaslighting fascist like you.

                    2. So he picked them up. What was he gonna do with them?

                      Look at that goalpost move. I’d call you a gaslighter, but you’re so obvious and shit at it. Anyway, who knows, maybe keep them away so the officers they belonged to couldn’t use them.
                      The point is, your big ‘gotcha’ that they brought zipties to hogtie congressmen as part of iNsurrEction, turned out yet again to be bullshit.

                      Why did they have a noose and chanting “hang Mike Pence?”

                      That’s you’re fallback? A fake noose at a protest? Lefty protesters brought a working guillotine to Trump’s inauguration and you didn’t even say boo.
                      And speaking of death threats, your fascist ass makes them all the time. Maybe Reason should hand your IP to the FBI before you massacre some kids in Salt Lake City.

                    3. Mormons aren’t people.

                      You live in an alternative reality dude.

                      Most Americans call those traitors what they’re: TRAITORS!

                    4. “Mormons aren’t people”

                      I’m glad that you always beclown yourself in the end. It saves me from having to do it.

              3. It wasn’t very low, it didn’t exist. There is no circumstance where such an event could create that outcome. It’s not as if there are runes on Nancy Pelosi’s Speaker gavel that say “whosoever holds this gavel, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Pelosi”.

                Are you really this obtuse?

                1. He really is.

                2. So why did they break into the Capitol? What was the point?

        2. I fully support the idea that the state should supervise free and fair elections for the peaceful transition of power between elected leaders, and that the state should enforce the results of those elections if necessary against those who would attempt to use force to see a different result. Do you?

          1. You didnt cry once with the 2017 protests. Weird.

            You applauded the Kavanaugh protestors. Weird.

            What you’re doing is using protests for the federal government to expand their security state. The House is now going into the private emails and phone records of tens of thousands of people. People are held in solitary for months on end.

            Youre a fucking statist.

            1. Just answer the question, Jesse. If you can.

              1. The question that is leading? Lol. There was nobody armed you retarded shit. Stop defending cops killing unarmed people. Next up jeff defends the missile strike against an aid worker and his family.

                1. This question, Jesse:

                  “I fully support the idea that the state should supervise free and fair elections for the peaceful transition of power between elected leaders, and that the state should enforce the results of those elections if necessary against those who would attempt to use force to see a different result. Do you?”

                  1. Again. The election was never understood threat you retarded statist shit. Youre using a false premise to justify government expansion and murder. That’s what you dont understand. Nobody who isn’t a leftist thinks the election would be overturned by Jan 6th. That is a myth for you and other statists to justify cracking down on political opponents. Again, most dictators use these very excuses. Youre not a libertarian. You justify federal over reach when it is democrats in charge.

                    1. A simple yes or no will do, Jesse.

                    2. Only the states and not the federal government, Herr Chemjeff.

                      I also declaim you’re inference that the election was free and fair, and note that there was considerable fraudulent interference by both the national Democratic party and their allies in the states affairs.
                      Furthermore, I note that the Biden Administration and other state actors have interfered with attempts by the states and their citizens for open inquiry into the fraud perpetrated by your party.

                      Finally I state that you and all your sockpuppets here are well aware of fraud, and you support the destruction of American democracy.
                      It’s actually part of your job.

                    3. And here you are ML white-knighting for Jesse here, trying to bail him out of his little rhetorical predicament. Too funny. You like to white-knight for the right-wingers around here. Maybe you should change your handle to Red Knight.

                    4. there was considerable fraudulent interference by both the national Democratic party and their allies in the states affairs.

                      Assumes facts not in evidence.

                      Weren’t you complaining earlier about how others didn’t respect your intelligence? Maybe you could start by setting an example and respecting the intelligence of others.

                    5. And here is why Jesse won’t answer my yes-or-no question:

                      If Jesse says ‘yes’, then he is agreeing with me.
                      If Jesse says ‘no’, then he is disagreeing with the entire concept of peaceful democratic elections.

                      He doesn’t want to do either, so instead he tries to change the subject and engages in his usual pettifoggery. Because he doesn’t have the intellectual honesty to state what he honestly believes and defend it on its merits, even if it means having to agree with me.

                    6. Jeff youre an authoritarian statist applauding for democratic rule. No matter how much you parse and avoid it, that is a fact.

                      Answer the questions above.

                    7. I am applauding for little-d democratic rule, yes. I don’t want elections decided by angry violent mobs, I want them decided by the counting of votes. And the state should play a role in ensuring that the winners of the vote are the ones who actually take power, not the ones who want to use force to overturn an election.

                      It is too bad that you cannot bring yourself to agree with me on such a basic lesson in civics, just because you hate me.

                    8. Jesse, you are an authoritarian right-wing apologist. No enemies to the right is your motto. Maybe you should re-examine your assumptions.

                    9. And here you are ML white-knighting for X

                      Challenging your horseshit isn’t white knighting anyone you disingenuous fuck.

                      And you of all people shouldn’t be accusing anyone of white knighting. Your entire presence here in this thread was sparked by a desire to rescue Laursen.

                    10. Funny how you always try to show up to the rescue of Ken, or Jesse, or some other right-winger around here. Why it’s almost as if you’re a bunch of cliquish middle-school Mean Grrlz

                    11. Looking at this thread Jeff, over 35 people have ‘attacked’ you or told you to fuck off.
                      But somehow you’re not the problem, oh no, it’s everyone else.

                    12. 35 people? You mean, you and 34 socks?

                      Right-wingers don’t like it when people challenge their right-wing views and instead respond with insults rather than argumentation. This isn’t exactly a new thing.

                    13. And to your larger point:

                      Youre using a false premise to justify government expansion and murder.

                      I am not going to try to defend the indefensible in the service of some higher cause.

                      I don’t support government murder. I don’t support government expansion in eroding our civil liberties. But I am also not going to pretend that Jan. 6 was something other than it actually was in order to try to oppose these things. The PRINCIPLED libertarian position here is to both oppose the government overreach into civil liberties, AS WELL AS to condemn the violent mob ransacking and vandalizing the Capitol in their attempt to try to overturn the election.

                      But I will not sit here and make some special-pleading argument that government overreach into our civil liberties is wrong because what the Jan. 6 protestors did wasn’t actually all that bad anyway. No, it was bad enough.

                    14. Of the 15 Washington protests in the last year and a half, it was the least violent and caused the least damage.

                      Not only was it not “bad enough”. Comparitively it wasn’t even bad.

                      If you weren’t a paid shill you would acknowledge this.

                    15. 35 people? You mean, you and 34 socks?

                      Name one sockpuppet out of everyone who told you to go fuck yourself, Jeff.

          2. jeffsarc’s post uses “the state” twice, “supervise”, “power”, “enforce” all to show what he believes is the government’s duty.

            Your entire post is just derivative authoritarian nonsense granting the government power of violence.

            In 1776 terms, you are King George and the Torys.

            1. So how do you think elections should be run?

              The mob with the most guns wins?

              Or maybe you don’t think there should be elections at all?

              1. And Jeff resorts to strawman arguments nobody is making because he knows his argument is bullshit. He always runs to “what ifs” to defend his leftist statism. Dictators do this as well. Good work Jeff.

                1. A strawman argument would be if I were to assert that buckleup is opposed to democracy. Since I didn’t do that, it wasn’t a strawman argument. It was a question.

                  While we are on the subject, how do you think elections should be run?

                2. His “perfect solution” fallacy.

                  1. I’m not asking for a ‘perfect solution’. Just SOMETHING. How do you think elections should be run, even if it is not a ‘perfect’ solution?

          3. No you don’t, you lying little faggot. You’re a leftist open borders democrat supporter that wants control of everything. You will lie as much as possible to try and get your way.

            You have zero credibility here, and likely everywhere else.

            1. The only thing you got right about me is that I support open borders.

              You are falling into the same trap that Jesse fell into. You can’t answer yes because you can’t be seen as agreeing with me, and you can’t answer no because that would mean you are opposed to democracy itself. So you have to resort to some misdirection, insults, pettifoggery, or other churlish behavior. Because you have little intellectual integrity. Being a part of the “right crowd” is more important to you than having the “right ideas”. Image over substance. Tribalism over ideology. That is Team Red in a nutshell and it’s not surprising that you illustrate the same crapola with me.

    2. And on the Afghanistan withdrawal.

      1. Ah you realized you fucked up the first time, then came back for some generic comment on Biden’s screwup.

        1. He didnt realize it. He is trying to go to what if scenarios to defend his support of statist murders.

    1. It’s like Jeff wrote the first one.

  13. Wow, what a time to be alive. Easier than ever to be from my phone

    If only it were easier for me to freely discuss vaccine statistics, young adults who wish they hadn’t mutilated their bodies, or election fraud

    1. The libertarian moment is being able to order grubhub from your phone while sitting on the toilet.

      It has less to do with things like freedom of speech, choosing what medical procedures are foisted upon you by a feckless national government that exempts itself from its own mandates, etc.

  14. I think it’s funny Biden hears what he wants, and he heard “Fuck Joe Biden” being chanted all weekend. He even mentioned it yesterday.

    Penetrate his skull though? Nah because he’s got the jeffsarc power of the state behind him and enough of the former neocons running the IC and deep state to keep him in power long enough.

    1. Interesting. Fuck Joe Biden.

  15. Sports betting will hopefully turn out the thin end of the libertarian wedge enabling election betting to overcome the pestilential effect of Nixon’s anti-Libertarian law. Once mystical morons are free to put their money where their superstition says to put it, they will again be no more of a menace than in Cleveland’s era.

  16. LOL

    Member of the Party of Lincoln wants the statue of Lincoln taken down

    1. If we’re taking down every problematic statue, it’s a perfectly reasonable proposition. It should at least be debated.

      1. I’m comfortable drawing the line between traitors vs. non-traitors.

        Statues of traitors should go.

        1. So statues of most democrats from after 1963?

    2. Clearly it’s a sarcastic suggestion given the batshit insane democrat left party that supports tearing down everything else.

      Which you support because you voted for them, fatty.

  17. Since Georgia is a backward hick state that won’t let us bet in the USA I use BetDSI in London with bitcoin.

    Fuck the conservatives in Georgia. I always hated them for you Peanuts that ask how I became a classic liberal. Conservatives have had laws to limit my alcohol purchases, dancing girls, and various other lifestyle type choices.

    1. Yes. Kiddie porn is illegal in Georgia. And we get why you hate the Peach Tree state.

      1. Wow, you QAnon Trump Trash won’t let go of your CT.

        When is Trump being reinstated by the way? Lindell is obviously full of shit like all you QAnon idiots.

        1. Wow. What are the sentencing guidelines for kiddie porn purveyors in Georgia?

          1. Georgia is hick trash outside ATL. Most the south is. It’s hilarious to us non inbred that those morons actually take pride in living in the asshole of the US.

            It would be more hilarious if they weren’t Trump worshipping traitors.

            1. That’s right, let the butthurt flow.

  18. Gambling should legalized all over. But people shouldn’t be gambling during the pandemic, especially with enhanced benefits being ended. Unless you have the bankroll and knows what you’re doing.

    I see sports stadium being packed with people (even abroad) and I wonder where these people are getting the money. They all still have jobs, are getting government handouts, and or don’t have to pay rent? Why are people going to Disneyland when a lot of their attractions are closed?

    We’re planting the seeds for a huge collapse.

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