Trans

Tennessee Orders Private Businesses To Warn About Possible Trans People in the Bathrooms

Fearmongering culture panic leads to a new dumb low.

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There are thoughtful debates surrounding the best way to accommodate transgender people in public facilities and student activities. What's the best way to respect both a trans person's identity and a women's need for privacy? Is it fair for trans teens girls, while early in their transition, to be allowed to compete in sports with cis girls, while the former may still have biological advantages?

Sidestepping these legitimate questions entirely in favor of ginned-up culture war outrage, Tennessee's Republican Gov. Bill Lee on Monday signed into law H.B. 1182, which requires all public and private facilities and businesses to post warning signs that they let trans people use the bathrooms.

H.B. 1182 orders that any business that "allows a member of either biological sex to use any public restroom within the building or facility shall post notice of the policy at the entrance of each public restroom and at each entrance of the building accessible by the general public."

The sign is required to read, "This facility maintains as a policy of allowing the use of restrooms by either biological sex, regardless of the designation on the restroom." The bill demands the sign be at least 8 inches wide and 6 inches tall, comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act, and even demands certain colors be used.

This isn't the only anti-trans bill Tennessee has recently passed, just the dumbest. Lee signed H.B. 1233 on Friday, a bill that opens up public schools to civil lawsuits if administrators allow trans people to use the restrooms or locker rooms of their chosen gender rather than their birth sex.

The obvious result of the signage order will be that every single private business and public facility is going to have to put these signs up since they're not going to actually police who uses which restroom.

H.B. 1182 adds this section to the state's building codes, which lists violations of any of the codes as Class B misdemeanors, subject to fines of up to $500 and potentially six months in jail. Even if a state official isn't terribly interested in enforcing the law this way, people may still go around looking for non-compliant businesses to complain about.

It is almost comically reminiscent of the effects of California's Proposition 65, which requires businesses and facilities to warn customers about potentially hazardous chemicals being used on the site with mandatory signs. The problem is that the list of hazardous chemicals is so inclusive (and stupid—the state is currently in a fight over whether coffee qualifies) that the Prop. 65 warning sign is found in pretty much every single business in the state. But since the signs are ubiquitous, they serve no meaningful purpose or warning. Still, failing to comply can lead to lawsuits from either the attorney general's office or from private citizens.

Similarly, this mandatory signage concerning who uses which bathrooms and locker rooms will provide no meaningful information and make nobody safer. It will, however, mandate that private businesses put up unnecessary signs with absurd messages under threat of punishment for non-compliance. That's not exactly small government in action.

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  1. Funny stuff.

    1. Southern Comedian and Columnist Lewis Grizzard made humor out of cutesiness involving restrooms years ago.

      He said he couldn’t stand seafood restaurants with cutesy names for the restrooms like “Bouys” and “Gulls.” 🙂

      He also went to a restaurant called The Hound and The Hare and got confused…He didn’t know whether he was a “Pointer” or a “Setter.” 🙂

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  2. Well this is silly. Just declare all bathrooms as unisex, and that’s your warning.

    1. I thought about this, but for the multi-user restrooms, it’s going to be potentially difficult to convert – toilets and urinals don’t typically use the same carriers.

      Perhaps change the designation to ‘restroom with urinals’ and ‘restroom without urinals’.

      Kinda like ‘birthing person’ vs. ‘non-birthing person’.

      1. Urinals are inherently sexist and transphobic. Justice demands everyone sit down.

        p.s. And I fear this will become a reality. There was a small brouhaha in Europe a while back over pissoirs versus porta-potties.

        1. Urinals are inherently sexist and transphobic. Justice demands everyone sit down.

          I’m looking at you, all the FtMs sitting in the back! You can just sit your asses right back down!

        2. They tried to make sitting down to pee the law in some crazy municipality in Sweden.

        3. Couldn’t standers still stand over a basin as well as in front of a urinal stall? How would the EU getting rid of urinals really change anything?

        4. If they take away the urinals, I’ll just piss on the seats.

      2. Blame the user, not the tool.

      3. My local car dealer did the unisex thing and added locks to the doors, so users wanting more privacy or not wanting to share with a potential false advertisement could get their own privacy.

        There weren’t many stalls and the volume of guests in the building small, so it doesn’t really work in most situations. Worked well in that one.

    2. Or be like Dublin, IR. The pubs are old and typically have one small, cramped bathroom. The lads just go outside and piss in other doorways or around the corner on a wall. Just as bad in Prague. Otherwise, the unisex idea is as good as flying business class for a ton of $$$$.

    3. No. I don’t like waiting in long lines.

    4. From what I’ve read, Trans people don’t like that because…..well, it’s all about them and what they want. They want to be the opposite gender, not “unisex”

      1. Why is it a problem or stupid to make this sign requirement law? It’s no more stupid or a problem than dudes wanting to go to the bathroom with chicks or vice versa. The majority need to be able to make the rules for a change instead of accommodating every fringe group at our expense. I’m sorry, I’m a live and let live person, but the trans Mafia doesn’t want that. They want to force themselves and their “lifestyle” on everyone. The entire point of their existence is to make people accept as fact something that isn’t biologically possible. Feeling like a chick doesn’t make you a chick, and women in general and little girls in particular shouldn’t have to worry about being in the bathroom when some hairy ass dude who calls himself Daphne walks in.

    5. If I were an architect, I would make all of my creations with a whole line of single-user unisex restrooms.

      Unisex restrooms not only accept all while respecting privacy, but they are also the cleanest restrooms and easiest to maintain.

      I’ve cleaned enough restrooms and I’m tired of seeing men’s rooms that are like horse stables and women’s restrooms like scenes out of a Sam *Sniff!* Peckinpah film!

      And if Transphobic Religious Right government code enforcers kept me from building restrooms the way I want, I would do my own version of a Howard Roark meets John Galt…

      No, I would not eat a pot of beans and then strike a match! 😉

      Instead, I’d let the restrooms turn to shitholes, let the businesses close and be condemned, then let the NIMBY Ayatollahs deal with the resulting loiterers and riff-raff in their neighborhoods!

      Then peer down over it all from a steel-girdered construction site and laugh! 😉

      1. All the single user restrooms also have to be ADA (or ANSI 117.1) compliant. With some extremely rare exceptions.

        1. All of the unisex bathrooms I’ve ever used or cleaned had guard rails for the handicapped, so hopefully, this shouldn’t be a problem…But I draw the line at any Ellswoth Toohey demanding that my restrooms become efficiencies for the homeless!

          1. The thing is, it’s a lot more square footage and a lot more accessories that need to be purchased for each of these ‘single-user’ restrooms. A single ‘unisex’ restroom is about 60 square feet after all of those requirements. An ADA-compliant stall in a multi-user restroom is about 25sf.

    6. I don’t want perverted sex demons in my bathroom. They should remain exclusively in the bedroom.

      1. You misunderstand. Mine would be single-stall unisex bathrooms. You wouldn’t have perverted sex demons with you in the bathroom…unless you invited them, of course.

  3. “There are thoughtful debates surrounding the best way to accommodate transgender people in public facilities and student activities. What’s the best way to respect both a trans person’s identity and a women’s need for privacy? Is it fair for trans teens girls, while early in their transition, to be allowed to compete in sports with cis girls, while the former may still have biological advantages?”

    Who are you, and what have you done with the real Scott Shackford?

    I liked you better when you were denouncing ciswomen for their TRANSGENDER BATHROOM PANIC if they’d be uncomfortable around Danielle Muscato just because of her 5 o’clock shadow.

    #TransWomenAreWomen
    #(EvenIfTheyCanGrowTremendousBeards)

    1. If woke capital can get people to believe that men are women and women are men, then they can convince them of everything. It’s a mechanism for progressive indoctrination similar energy to what the mob used to do having young italian boys start off stealing candy from corner stores, graduate to knocking off liquor stores, and finally to highjacking trucks and burning down warehouses.

      1. they can convince them of anything*.

  4. We found out just how much of a cult this was when Jenner got attacked for being in the GOP.

    1. Wrong thing is much worse than wrong sex.

      1. Think*

      2. The wrong sex is HAVING the wrong thing.

    2. Derdri mcclusky constantly gets attacked for being a capitalist and not a socialist

  5. >>cis girls

    girls. soft bigotry.

  6. Some labels are more equal than others.

  7. Why not let private businesses decide how to label their restroom/s? Observations: Most men don’t give a damn if a biological woman wants to come in the “Men’s Room.” Most women don’t want biological men coming in the “Ladies’ Room.”

    1. Why not let private businesses decide how to label their restroom/s?

      The last state that tried that was subjected to a massive corporate boycott.

      1. Ordered by elected officials.
        It’s funny how all these priVatE comPanIES are always doing exactly what 430 South Capitol Street wants. A real coincidence.

        1. Almost as if they were part of a well funded cabal or something.

    2. I really wonder about the last part of your comment. I suspect that most women don’t much care.

      Women tell me that woman’s restrooms have nothing but private stalls and so it is unlikely they would know the biological sex of the individual next to them anyway.

      I also add that if you have ever been to a crowded event like sports, concerts or festivals the bathroom fill up fast and it is not unusual for the women to march into the men’s room and take over the stalls. So shyness passes quickly in the face of necessity.

      1. I really wonder about the last part of your comment. I suspect that most women don’t much care.

        I always get dirty looks after coming out of the ladies room when circumstances force me to take one of my preschool daughters into it.

    3. Because “private businesses” aren’t private. They are funded by government via NGOs and shadow organizations with money coming straight from central banks. Markets are fake. The last year should be all the proof you need. The people have no choice because megacorps can subsist without paying customers solely with dark money while burdensome regulations, price fixing, coordinated market manipulation and asymmetric subsidies all but ensure no competition can ever gain a foothold without swearing fealty to the same forces of woke globohomo liberalism.

  8. At least three local businesses here (note: all three are large retailers) have the traditional bathrooms AND a unisex bathroom. Probably not practical for smaller retailers.

    On the other hand, there are several small retailers who have but one bathroom which fits only one person at a time. By definition they are unisex.

    1. Actually, the building code typically requires a unisex ‘family assist’ restroom if your occupancy load is above a certain amount, depending on the occupancy type.

      1. True. But I remember when they didn’t. Though it was a long time ago.

    2. By definition convention they are unisex.

      Unless every sleeping bag I’ve slept in for the last 20 yrs. is, by definition, unisex.

      1. +

      2. If you haven’t had sex while camping in over 20 years, that’s on you.

  9. Party of “small government” strikes again.

    1. dude I don’t think anyone says that anymore

    2. This is a tough one: does the right of trannys to use whatever bathroom they want step on the rights of women to poop in a penis-free environment?

      1. My inalienable right to put on a skirt and go listen to little girls peeing.

    3. As long as the Duke men’s lacrosse team can use the Duke women’s lacrosse team’s lockers and showers simultaneously provided they claim to be women all will be good.

    1. From your link:

      The Billings Gazette reports Martinez, who is a family friend, invited the girl into the bathroom of a home on March 23, and touched her breasts and genitalia before penetrating her.

      Not a stranger to the victim, and not a public bathroom, so it’s of very limited relevance to the public bathroom debate.

      1. Not a stranger to the victim, and not a public bathroom, so it’s of very limited relevance to the public bathroom debate.

        Who put you in charge of the transphobia anecdote appropriateness line? Gerry Armstrong?

  10. “There are thoughtful debates”

    Which Web sites can I go to in order to find those debates?

    1. It only happens at the right cocktail parties.

    2. It’s only thoughtful if everyone already agrees with each other.

  11. What’s the best way to respect both a trans person’s identity and a women’s need for privacy?

    WARNING – Delusional psychotic males may be using this bathroom.

    1. Beware of de-pantsed monkeys.

  12. > …while the former may still have biological advantages?

    Sorry, even after transition those born as male will retain male advantages in sports, and those born as female will retain female advantages after transition. This isn’t social, this is biological. It isn’t the identity that makes males stronger on average than females, or the presence of a vagina that makes females more agile on average.

    The reason Caitlyn Jenner isn’t winning as many Olympic Gold Medals as Bruce Jenner did, is that Caitlyn is 45 years older, and not because she transitioned to female.

    I really don’t care what body parts someone has surgically removed or added, or how they identify what body parts they think they possess, or what they demand their gender role to be, one’s biology is what matters in sports. In the debate over nature versus nurture, both are right. It’s nature AND nurture, not how one chooses to identify.

    1. Al Campanis and Jimmy the Greek spinning in graves.

    2. A quibble: While you are correct that a lot of the advantages are biological, they are driven by hormones. Some of the advantages are from hormone-driven development during childhood. Those advantages will be permanent even after transition. Other advantages are dependent on current hormones – and those hormone levels are generally reset during the transition and maintained through shots afterward. So most of the advantages survive the transition but not quite all.

      1. They’re driven by genes. Hormones are just the messenger service.

        And even if you’re injecting hormones, the original hormones are still being produced by your body and have to be overwhelmed by the injected ones for the rest of your life. A potential cancer and liver disease risk.

        1. Yes, but the hormones coursing through one’s body during puberty have a much greater effect than those you take just to feel feminine.That’s the nurture part.

          Trans-women need to be competing in trans-women leagues. The idea that trans- and cis- are just flavor choices is bullshit. A trans-woman is going to have nearly all the advantages against cis-women that cis-men do. I mean, duh.

        2. Saying hormones are just the messengers isn’t really accurate. If you revise the blueprints to a house to add a patio to the front of it, and the messenger who is delivering the revised blueprints loses them, that patio is not getting built. It seems kind of insane to argue that because the blueprints say the house has a patio, it must really have a patio. Similarly, if someone has their body modified from one sex to the other, it seems insane to argue that they are their original sex because DNA.

          Similarly, if someone has an intersex condition that makes their bodies not respond to sex hormones, it does not matter if their chromosomes are XY. They will be a woman. They will have a vagina, breasts, etc. Their XY chromosomes do not make them a man. “Man” and “woman” were concepts people had long before chromosomes were ever discovered.

          Also, there are medications to suppress production of the original hormones. Plus, if someone has surgery their gonads are often removed, and gonads are where most of the original hormones are made.

          1. ” it seems insane to argue that they are their original sex because DNA

            That may very well be the stupidest, most scientifically ignorant sentence that I have ever read.

            1. ++++++++++++++++++++++++

              I mean… int it called the sex chromosome?

          2. Sex is about sex, retard. And contrary to modern popular opinion, sex is still the best way to reproduce. No one changes their original sex with surgery or hormones. The best they can do is sterilize and neuter themselves.

      2. @Rossami

        I think the most recent study I read about recommended that trans-women undergo two years of hormone replacement therapy before participating in women’s sports (it argued that the current 1 year waiting period is too short). Trans men, by contrast, seemed to be able to compete on a level playing field with cis men after only one year of HRT.

        1. And yet, what we know about biology and the influence of hormones during adolescence says that’s at best a pipe dream. Two years of hormone replacement therapy will rebalance your current hormone levels but do little to take away the muscle/bone density/other that you built up in the prior decade.

          Maybe if you’re talking intramural sports, that short a period is adequate to rebalance performance. But for top athletes who have been training since childhood? That’s just not how the body works.

          1. Kaitlyn Jenner can take female hormones for decades, but will still be taller than 99.9% of women.

    3. females more agile

      While admittedly vague, flexible I’d agree with, agile is dubious. Gymnastics, (track and) field events, ski jump, basketball, snowboarding, skateboarding, figure skating… men at all levels routinely do all manner of feats of agility that women can’t.

    4. “Sorry, even after transition those born as male will retain male advantages in sports, and those born as female will retain female advantages after transition. ”

      Except for the most meaningful advantage, money. A male professional soccer player is going to see a meaningful reduction in pay as a female professional soccer player. And it is social.

      1. If by social you mean to imply some kind of unfairness or arbitrary devaluation…
        not strictly social – more economic reality, the law of preferences and value
        – as in , people pay for what they want and in sports entertainment it is not women’s soccer.
        I would guess a Babes Bikini soccer league might get better ratings than regular Olympic class women’s soccer but then the man you posit above wouldnt make it in that kind of league I would think [and would still see a pay cut if otherwise]

        1. “If by social you mean to imply ”

          I meant not biological. There is no biological reason for male professional soccer players to get paid what they are paid. Same with women. I think the original poster had much the same meaning in mind.

  13. From the article: ‘H.B. 1182 orders that any business that “allows a member of either biological sex to use any public restroom within the building or facility shall post notice of the policy at the entrance of each public restroom and at each entrance of the building accessible by the general public.”‘

    Also from the article: ‘The obvious result of the signage order will be that every single private business and public facility is going to have to put these signs up since they’re not going to actually police who uses which restroom.’

    I’ve never really understood why “journalists” will accurately quote something and then lie about what they just quoted. Or maybe I’m being too generous to Shackford, and he really _is_ to stupid to realize that his “obvious result” would only happen if every single private business and public facility maintained separate bathrooms while simultaneously having a policy that the signs on the door are meaningless, instead of either getting rid of separate bathrooms or simply not having such a policy.

    1. Unless you are talking a very small business that only has single occupancy bathrooms to start with, switching from gendered to unisex bathrooms is likely to be expensive and time consuming.

      Also the way the law is worded, not having an explicit policy of allowing either gender to use either bathroom is not enough. Use of the gendered bathrooms will have to be enforced which is likely to prove impossible in practice.

      1. switching from gendered to unisex bathrooms is likely to be expensive and time consuming.

        I’ve looked into this specifically, albeit in a public context in the most expensive construction market in the country, but we were looking at about $750k to convert two six-stall restrooms. In the opinion of our AHJ, however, each stall needs to be floor-to-ceiling, and thus needs its own ventilation, fire sprinkler, and fire alarm devices, so you’re essentially just building out single-occupancies in clusters.

        I’ve told more than one client “just tell people to ignore the signs.”

        1. https://xhamster.com/search/hidden+cam+toilet

          No $750k toilet is complete without its own webcam.

  14. Shouldn’t this law be required in homes as members of both sexes often use those bathroom?

    1. Single occupancy bathrooms in private homes (or small businesses for that matter) are a very different story than multi-occupancy public restrooms.

    2. Do those homeowners have bathrooms with multiple toilets in them, where strangers can sit down next to them and listen to them pee?

      1. In my younger days I had a few girl friends who would run the faucet to hide the sounds of urinations. Never really understood this because a guy you stand with guys on either side of you at the urinals. You learn early to keep your eyes forward and to mind your own business.

        So over all I don’t much worry about or listen to people using the bathroom.

    3. single occupancy restroom only allow one person at a time so no need for warnings of any type. If someone else enters while your in there then lock the dam door

  15. The whole push to ignore why certain spaces and institutions are sex segregated has been because of a moral panic by the social progressives that trans people are too emotionally fragile to handle that their objective biological sex matters in certain circumstances over their subjective gender identity and will kill themselves if made to confront that dissonance.

    This has not been a case of thoughtful debate by the progressive side. This has been nothing but uncompromising demands that, if not given into, get the “phobic” label thrown at the resistor.

    1. +1, Mott-and-Bailey/Crocodile tears wept by people who realize their pro-tranny SJW peers would eat them alive.

    2. The reason why certain spaces and institutions are sex segregated is that idiots think that all men are rapists. This whole debate over whether trans women are men or not is kind of a sideshow, because it is predicated on the falsehood that gender segregated restrooms are even something that is needed in the first place.

      1. The reason why certain spaces and institutions are sex segregated is that idiots think that all men are rapists.

        That’s part of it, but I’ve also known a lot of women who really prefer not having to use the same restroom men also use, even if they’re not in there at the same time.

        1. That’s generally the historical reason. Men were in the workplace and generally out in public. Women were at home in the boudoir. When women joined the workforce and employers were mandated to have women’s restrooms, men’s rooms got mirrors and soaps and perfumes as one would find in the boudoir.

          The fear of rape is particularly idiotic as, from a ‘civil engineering’ standpoint, there’s no real distinction between a stall that hides rape and a stall that hides consensual but not condoned sex (such as at the workplace) or drinking or drug use. Saying it’s because of rape is like saying women wear clothes to physically prevent them from being raped. It’s not true on its face.

        2. I can not understand why any man would want to share a public restroom with women, either?!?!

          Women bleed. And it’s gross. And I am a woman. And we use more toilet paper. And we aren’t always clean. Women’s public restrooms tend to be the nastiest shit on the planet.

          I’m a woman. I know. And I’ve cleaned men’s and women’s public bathrooms. Women are gross.

      2. This is not merely about gang restrooms. There are also women’s shelters, sex segragated prisons, locker rooms and showers, and sports.

    3. their objective biological sex matters in certain circumstances over their subjective gender identity

      I would argue that actually the thing being skirted around is that objective biological sex has never mattered wrt restrooms and that trans people, who have always been with us, are perfectly well aware of what gender they present as and are largely quite capable of choosing the restroom that will cause the least uproar without even needing to be helped by the government.

      1. This is about more than restrooms.

    4. +1 – furthermore, I always feel there is this desire by progressives to invent causes to disrupt the societal apple cart. This gives them a platform to signal from even if it means burning down the house, except they know the normies will ultimately restrain the hand holding the lit match.

  16. What i want to know is how many languages will the sign have to be in. i can see a market where every bathroom has symbol for user to go on an app to download all the information needed just to go pee and you will have to sign an online agreement to use said toilet. some one could make a lot of money with that especially if you make it a code requirment

    1. There are already translator apps that work with both keypads and speaking, so no need. Comes in quite handy for learning new foreign language words.

  17. This whole Trans in the shitter thing is stupid. Didn’t it start because evangelical hicks were screaming “a sexual predator can hide in the bathroom!”

    There wasn’t anything keeping them from doing that before!

    This is just because southern evangelical conservatives now get shamed if they admit they hate gays or trans out loud.

    That’s the GOP’s and Trump’s base for ya. A bunch of backwards hicks.

    1. If a dude is hanging out in the women’s locker room at a gym in a sane world, the gym owner tosses his ass out or calls the cops. In woke land, the gym owner has his hands tied and now a predator is free to do his thing.

      Why is this hard to understand?

  18. I want to piss on trees in front of everybody. My inner dog demands to be recognized.

    1. You’ll definitely be recognised after you go round town introducing yourself when you end up on the sex offenders register.

  19. “That’s not exactly small government in action.”

    Small government in action is ignoring these absurd laws.

  20. What makes the sign a warning? There are signs now that show which bathroom is which. What is the purpose of these signs if not to direct people to their preferred bathroom?

    These new signs give more information for trans people who are looking for a bathroom where their presence is protected by law. They should welcome this.

    Whether or not it is a ‘warning’ depends on the attitude of other users to trans people and not on those who legislate for the signs. If other users are afraid of trans people then they need to deal with their own fears and not need the state to protect them.

    Calling these signs warnings and fear mongering is just an attempt to highlight how downtrodden trans people are. In the areas of bathrooms they are not discriminated against. If the author has issues with other areas where trans people suffer injustice then he should address them directly and not try and emotionally manipulate his readers by trying to get them to feel sorry for trans people where sorrow is not appropriate.

  21. There are thoughtful debates surrounding the best way to accommodate transgender people in public facilities and student activities. What’s the best way to respect both a trans person’s identity and a women’s need for privacy? Is it fair for trans teens girls, while early in their transition, to be allowed to compete in sports with cis girls, while the former may still have biological advantages?”

    Who are you, and what have you done with the real Scott Shackford?

    I liked you better when you were denouncing ciswomen for their TRANSGENDER
    https://wapexclusive.com , BATHROOM PANIC if they’d be uncomfortable around Danielle Muscato just because of her 5 o’clock shadow.

  22. “..any business that “allows a member of either biological sex to use any public restroom within the building or facility shall post notice of the policy at the entrance of each public restroom and at each entrance of the building accessible by the general public.”

    Easy work around: Post “MALES ONLY” on the men’s room, and “WOMEN ONLY” on the women’s room.

    Simply DO NOT allow any trannys in your bathrooms.

    1. So then they piss and shit on your facility floor? Talk about the law of unintended consequences…

  23. Sounds like there should be a required sign that says “Warning — staff members of certain joke magazines may be bending over ostensibly to pick up soap in these restrooms. Do not encourage them.”

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