Capitol Riot

West Virginia Lawmaker and Man Photographed at Pelosi's Desk Among Those Arrested for Capitol Riot

Proposals are already being floated for new unnecessary laws and punishments to address the riots.

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The Justice Department announced the first round of arrests and charges stemming from Wednesday's U.S. Capitol riot by a pro-Trump mob, with a West Virginia state legislator among those charged.

Derrick Evans, a recently elected West Virginia Republican lawmaker, was arrested and charged with illegal entry. Evans livestreamed himself entering the besieged Capitol Building. His attorney told local news outlet WVNS that Evans is innocent, that his actions were protected First Amendment activities, and that Evans would not be resigning.

Alabama resident Lonnie Coffman was also arrested and charged with allegedly carrying 11 Molotov cocktails on Capitol grounds. According to an affidavit unsealed today, Capitol Police sweeping the Capitol grounds found a pistol, an M4 carbine, and 11 Mason jars filled with gasoline, along with rags and lighters, in Coffman's truck.

And in Arkansas, Richard Barnett, who was photographed with his feet up on the desk of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, has been arrested and charged with entering and remaining on restricted grounds, violent entry, and theft of public property.

The Justice Department announced federal charges against 11 others in connection to the riot.

Five people died in the chaos, including an unarmed woman who was fatally shot in the throat by a law enforcement officer. A Capitol Police officer, Brian Sicknick, was pronounced dead last night from injuries received in the melee, adding significantly to the gravity of the potential charges some of the rioters may face.

Officials from the U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia and the FBI Washington Field Office said today on a call with reporters they have hundreds of investigators and prosecutors working on the cases.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the family and fellow officers of U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian D. Sicknick, who succumbed last night to the injuries he suffered defending the U.S. Capitol, against the violent mob who stormed it on January 6th," Acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen said in a press release. "The FBI and Metropolitan Police Department will jointly investigate the case and the Department of Justice will spare no resources in investigating and holding accountable those responsible."

Today's charges and arrests follow 40 defendants being charged yesterday with unlawful entry.

Some Democrats are already floating harsher punishments and new legislation in response to the riot. For example, the House Committee on Homeland Security is asking the FBI and the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) to add participants to the no-fly list.

 

Reason has explained many times why the no-fly list is a civil liberties nightmare, namely that it's just about impossible for anyone placed on it, even by mistake, to challenge his inclusion.

Other ideas include adding a domestic terrorism statute to the books. "Domestic terrorism" isn't currently a federal crime, nor should it be. As Reason's J.D. Tuccille argued, such a statute "is bound to threaten liberty more than it hampers terrorists." 

There are plenty of laws already covering the actions of the mob, and rioters can be prosecuted without the need to resort to unaccountable government lists or vague new crimes.

NEXT: What Should Happen to the Capitol Invaders?

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  1. Proposals are already being floated for new unnecessary laws and punishments to address the riots.

    Never let an overhyped incident go to waste.

      1. Perhaps the Capitol police officer who shot Ashli Babbitt was pointing at BLM/Antifa activist John Sullivan, who was standing beside Babbitt when she was shot (and he filmed it).

        Notice that Babbitt’s name wasn’t even mentioned in this article.

        1. Fuck off. Sullivan himself said he was the sole non-right wing activist around.

          1. Such language Dee. Why are you coarsening up this comment section?

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          2. Lol. God you are a retard. More than one antifa has been identified you lefty shit.

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          3. And he’d have no incentive to lie about a thing like that, would he?

          4. Wow, what a reliable source. Possible false flag operator, when questioned, says he was the only false flag operator.

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        2. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2021/01/07/utah-man-with-a-history-of-organizing-blm-protests-was-inside-the-capitol-n2582766

          One of the organizers of a protest in Provo that resulted in a motorist being shot was arrested on Thursday.

          John Earle Sullivan, 25, of Sandy, was booked into the Utah County Jail for investigation of rioting, making a threat of violence and criminal mischief.

          and honk their horns to show support for law enforcement.

          Another group planned a counterprotest at the same time and place. On Facebook, its event page was originally titled End Police Brutality but was later changed to Marching for Racial Equality. The Facebook pages listed the event’s hosts as the groups Insurgence, Solidarity for Justice, Salt Lake Equal Rights Movement and the Salt Lake Antifascist Coalition.

          “As a protest organizer John Sullivan is heard and seen as he is promoting protesters to block roadways, keeping motorists from traveling lawfully and freely.”

          Sullivan was also captured on video threatening to beat a woman in an SUV, according to the affidavit, and then kicking her door, leaving a dent.

          Sullivan was seen with Jesse Taggart — the man charged with shooting the motorist — throughout the protest, the affidavit states.

          “As a protest organizer, John Sullivan is heard talking about seeing the shooting, looking at the gun and seeing smoke coming from it. John did not condemn the attempted murder nor attempt to stop it nor aide in its investigation by police.”

          “John did not condemn the attempted murder nor attempt to stop it nor aide in its investigation by police.”

        3. It’s a conspiracy. They were antifa crisis actors! Alex Jones himself said so. And he should know, he was there, encouraging them with a loudspeaker.

    1. Overhyped. Fuck off.

      1. Get a life.

      2. Man, you used to be somewhat level-headed, albeit quick to forgive leftists.

        1. Read the handle; racist through and through.

        2. Lefty shits always act sanctimonious.

    2. It really is amazing to watch the media, including Reason, go full Reichstag fire with this thing…

      1. I keep hoping cooler heads will prevail. None found at Reason. Time to move on.

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  2. We must punish for walking into a building and sitting down. The speaker’s desk is inviolate and sanctified. None must touch the sacred scrolls of power unless anointed.

    More seriously isn’t the speaker’s office like right off the rotunda? And why wasn’t the door locked during the joint session?

    Also if they ever let people back in there someday do look up at the rotunda ceiling someday and marvel at it’s weirdness.

    1. Fuck off, traitor.

      1. Ah, I see: you’re your usual voice of reason and peace.

        1. I’m thinking this WK is just a sockpuppet. As annoying as the real one could be, he was typically level-headed.

          1. That was the act. But people underestimate how hard it is to keep your real self hidden, so it almost always leaks out. His has before.

      2. You’ve gone full authoritarian shit. Good for you.

      3. We always saw you for the bitch you were ENB.

    2. Pardon snowden! Arrssr that man he stole Pelosi laptop!

    3. Are you also okay with the guy who beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher, or the guys who brought zip ties to tie up their hostages?

      1. neither one of those things has been proven with any evidence.

        1. “During the struggle at the Capitol, Sicknick, 42, was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher, two law enforcement officials said. The officials could not discuss the ongoing investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.”

      2. Obviously not, dildo. Please stop asking stupid questions.

  3. Not enough oysters in the ocean to generate enough pearls for the MSM to clutch—or Reason, for that matter.

    1. Fuck off. A Capitol police officer died you asshole.

      1. Fuck you. You didn’t spew such vitriol when rioters murdered dozens of private bystanders and arsoned a police station. So spare your fake concern, asshole.

      2. Fuck off. An unarmed woman was shot in the neck by an agent of the state.

      3. You didnt shed one year for the 25 people who died in BLM riots. Weird. Or any of the officers shot a few years ago. Or the ambushed cops by those who sypport BLM this year.

        Oh. You wanted this one for political reasons.

        1. Well yeah, but now he’s also a corporate apologist. My, how one day can change things. It’s been interesting though not surprising to see leftists suddenly become corporate-rights shills so long as the corps are doing the work of the Party. Gonna bet we are just days away from leftist bumper stickers, “Corporations are People Too”.

      4. From a stroke.

      5. “Libertarians” who love to chant “both sides!” and rag on cops are, quite tellingly, now fanning their face over ARE BRAV POLUTISHUNS and BAK DA BLU.

  4. Alabama resident Lonnie Coffman was also arrested and charged with allegedly carrying 11 Molotov cocktails on Capitol grounds.

    Upon hearing this, AOC flipped through her bartending guide trying to figure out what a Molotov cocktail is.

    1. Haha.

      Don’t forget a splash of motor oil to increase the burn time.

      1. As much as we piss each other off, it’s great when we can laugh at the same thing.

        1. Agreed!

        2. I hope that now that Trump will be gone, we can all go back to mocking those in power.

          1. The Obama years were the salad days of the Reason comments section. I wasn’t here for W., but I imagine those would have been good too.

          2. The ones you support? Nah. You’re a biden cultist the next 4 years wk.

            1. Fuck Biden and fuck you.

      2. Knowing that can now get you on the no-fly list.
        As if any real human would go into the constitution free zone called an airport – – – – –

        1. Not to mention on a petri dish they call an airplane. There’s nothing I love more than to be stuck in the green zone for 3 hours next to or in front of some schleb who is coughing up a lung.

    2. Not to be confused with the Motorboat cocktail.

      1. Sometimes, it’s best to take a called strike rather than swinging.

  5. By all means arrest the van der Lubbes, but let’s not have any Enabling Acts in response to this incident.

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  7. But I was assured by our professional, unbiased media that these protesters were softballed and not a single one was even arrested.

    1. Dol was lying about that just yesterday.

  8. We clearly need a new War on Terror, but since the right people are in charge this will go perfectly. Both Biden and Harris have great, progressive history concerning crime.

    A real “War on Terror” has never been tried.

  9. The Capitol, base of an illegitimate nation that was founded on slavery, is sacred for some reason.

    1. Fuck off, seditionist.

      1. I take back what I said about you above. No way is this the real WK. Has to be a sockpuppet.

        1. He has always been a lefty shit. Did he actually fool you?

        2. Or it’s just been a troll account this entire time. OR maybe WK was socking under some other account name and someone snatched up the WK handle and is running fuck_off.exe.
          Leaning towards the latter.

      2. Behold: accusing someone of a crime punishable by death for a bit of sarcasm. That’s how the left takes power and destroys nations. Thanks for the illustration.

    2. The reason you are grasping at straws is the same reason Republicans in Congress are getting behind a second impeachment.

      Pay attention to what’s going on or you’re going to find yourself in a club consisting only of Trumps and Proud Boys.

      1. I think it’s time you turned off the Mitt Romney channel.

  10. As it’s been mentioned countless times most people are violating some law every day they are alive. When you come to the attention of the “Eyes” then they’ll find plenty to charge you with and if you don’t plea bargain the process will be far more painful. Of course storming the capitol and taking pictures and posting it on personal social media accounts sure made that easy for them.

    Makes you wonder sometimes if social media wasn’t just an operation to monitor people all along.

  11. “Man Photographed at Pelosi’s Desk Among Those Arrested for Capitol Riot”

    I hope he farted in it

    1. The sad part is that (it seems) he did not bother to search for evidence of the many conspiracies.

      1. She never actually uses that room. Way too much light

    2. Were I him it would be impossible to resist the urge to piss all over it and her desk.

  12. I have seen multiple videos now from different angles showing that the police let protesters through.

    Dems obviously want war, and I know they’re compromised by China so it makes sense that China would benefit from that. But how stupid are Democrats for thinking that they wouldn’t be ultimately screwed just as badly as Republicans in the long run?

    1. They don’t want war, they want cultural revolution, show trials, progroms, gulags, and eventually a holocaust.

      1. I’m afraid they’ve unleashed forces that will ultimately be beyond their control.

  13. A Capitol Police officer, Brian Sicknick, was pronounced dead last night from injuries received in the melee, adding significantly to the gravity of the potential charges some of the rioters may face.

    The details of the officer’s death are going to have to come out if someone is going to be charged in relation to it.

    1. Whoever gets charged will get tried in DC so the details are irrelevant.

      1. Federal property, federal courts.

    2. I’m assuming at this point, since no details are incoming, that the guy was taking a shit when the incursion started, leapt to his feet, tripped over his pants, and hit his head on the bathroom sink.

      1. Lester Holt on NBC claimed the officer was hit in the head by a fire extinguisher thrown at him by a rioter.

        1. If that’s true I don’t see why they would hide this for so long.

        2. NBC without third party cell phone video = bullshit.

          1. The story now is that he was beaten with a fire extinguisher. So Jerryskids, fuck off you cretinous traitor.

            1. “Traitor” huh, for doubting the media’s claim of what happened in a case of police violence? At a Libertarian site?

              LOL, this really is the best timeline.

              Prosecute anyone who went upside a cop’s head with a fire extinguisher. And actually send them to jail this time, versus what happened with most of the rioters who’d been assaulting cops around the country these last nine months. I’m sure you were calling antifa supporters “traitors” too at that time.

              Worthless. These comments threads make usenet look readable, these days.

    3. The details aren’t coming out because he died from having a stroke!

      1. “During the struggle at the Capitol, Sicknick, 42, was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher, two law enforcement officials said. The officials could not discuss the ongoing investigation publicly and spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.”

        1. The Associated Press? lol….. I prefer Onion news for my entertainment.

  14. Are there no salt mines that need digging?

    1. Australia’s halfway back to being a penal colony, so they could go there.

    2. All the salt in the U.S. has been mined since the election.

    3. Salt is bad for you; no mining allowed.

  15. Looks like we’re in to a full on brown scare.

    Time to give Jesse Walker a big raise.

  16. Some Democrats are already floating harsher punishments and new legislation in response to the riot.

    So no Minnesota Freedom Fund type bail accounts backed by party leaders to help the rioters, then?

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  17. You’ll name the Capitol officer that died, but not Ashli Babbitt, who served in Afghanistan for over a decade and was the unarmed woman killed.

    Huh.

    1. Cannon fodder. She was always expendable.

    2. What kind of idiot attacks the US Capitol building while both houses of Congress and the vice president are there and expects to come out alive?

      1. They were dumb, but that doesn’t make it an “attack”

        1. They weren’t there to see the paintings.

          1. Neither were the protestors who tried to interfere with the process of confirming a SCOTUS nominee.

            1. You mean when 300 of them were arrested?

              1. Maybe they should have said they were there to look at the paintings.

              2. So I guess a $50 fine is good enough. Unless the crime was greater.

                “”At least 227 demonstrators were arrested between the start of the nomination hearings on Tuesday and the end of testimony on Friday, according to the U.S. Capitol Police. Most of those charged this week with disorderly conduct, crowding or obstructing paid fines of $35 or $50.””

                https://www.npr.org/2018/09/08/645497667/the-resistance-at-the-kavanaugh-hearings-more-than-200-arrests

                1. Is that a goalpost I hear whooshing by?

                  What point is it that you think you’re trying to make? That the Trump administration is too soft on leftists?

                  Have you addressed the point that one crime does not excuse another, and that not all crimes are equal, yet?

                  1. “”Have you addressed the point that one crime does not excuse another””

                    I often address that on H&R.

                    “”Unless the crime was greater.”
                    That’s me acknowledging that not all crimes are equal right above the post where you asked.

                    My point is if you were behaving disorderly, crowding or obstructing, then you pay the $35 or $50 fine. If you did commit a greater crime, then charged as such. Obstructing would be the charge for obstructing the EC vote count. You acted like you knew what the word meant for the last fours years.

                    1. If storming the capitol in an attempt to overthrow the presidential election isn’t insurrection, what’s insurrection to you?

                      I don’t actually know what these people are getting charged with. I am just personally in favor of keeping in mind the utility of deterrence.

                      You thought you had a right to steal the country based ENTIRELY on lies. What would you try next time? How about I don’t really care to find out?

                    2. “”You thought you had a right to steal the country based ENTIRELY on lies.””

                      I’ve though no such thing liar.

                    3. Thought

                    4. “”If storming the capitol in an attempt to overthrow the presidential election isn’t insurrection,””

                      How do you think they were going to overthrow the election? Vote in place of the EC? They had no ability to overthrow the election.

                      They obstructed the EC from its Constitutional duties. That warrants a charge of obstruction.

                    5. The votes were being counted so not the EC. But Congress’s constitutional duties.

          2. I remember when Tony called benghazi just a protest despite the mortars.

            1. I remember when you people tried to blame Hillary Clinton for a terrorist attack committed by Ansar al-Sharia and hauled her before Congress more than a dozen times to answer for it, using my tax dollars on a slimy attempt at character assassination for naked political reasons.

              Understand I didn’t just realize you people were fascists two days ago.

              1. Why would you not have an investigation when an ambassador is murdered at a US Embassy? And if you did, it seems normal for the person in charge of such facilities to be on the hot seat.

              2. Not saying this was you Tony, but I was a bit surprised when I saw some Americans that were more concerned about a murder of a foreigner in a foreign embassy than the murder of an American in a US embassy.

                1. Like with everything else, I didn’t have the space to form appropriate emotional responses the the terrorist attack in Benghazi because fucking Republican cunts took the opportunity the moment they got their evil power-mad hands on it to propagandize against the president.

                  Four people dying is sad. Now you do 350,000 dead people under Trump’s actual direct idiocy.

              3. Once again we see the left’s belief everyone with a different opinion is fascist.

                1. The left is doing exactly what the Nazis did upon getting power

        2. Lap83: Then why were several people carrying zipties?

      2. Dunno. What kind of idiot tries to burn down a federal courthouse for months on end and expects to not get arrested eventually?

        1. You people keep saying things as if you believe that crime is OK as long as someone else committed a crime first.

          1. Unarmed protester with a MAGA hat on federal property is totally the same as someone trying to commit arson on federal property

            Just think of how much the recoil could have hurt that poor officer!

            1. *unarmed protester with a MAGA hat being shot on federal property

            2. But you’re using “on federal property” as a euphemism for occupying and vandalizing the US Capitol building while Congress was certifying the election result.

              People who are convinced they have the right to overthrow the election on some flimsy excuse. If someone tells you what their motive is, that’s evidence for their motive.

              1. Ted wheeler just got lunched in the face yesterday by antifa. More violence against a duly elected politician than happened at the capital.

                1. That’s because they were barricaded behind doors and hiding under desks.

                  Fuck you people, seriously. You’re done. You know that. You’re just lashing out. I’m sure it was fun killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with stupidity while it lasted.

                  1. You’ll get yours

              2. How in the hell could what these people did “overthrow the election”? The most it could do is postpone the counting of the electoral votes (which is what happened). Even if they’d succeeded in occupying the House and Senate chambers, all that means is that the vote would have been counted in an alternative location.

                The way you overthrow the election is by sending, not a rabble of chuckleheads, but a strike force of special forces, to seize the Capitol and arrest the leadership of both Houses. Then you would have to suspend the constitution and declare martial law.

                One thing you certainly wouldn’t do is tell your supporters to “march[] over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard” in support of the process by which ballots are challenged on grounds of alleged illegality.

                1. So they subjected themselves to charges of insurrection in order to accomplish absolutely nothing?

                  And I should listen to them about what other policy matters, again?

          2. No one should be surprised you draw this stupid a conclusion, it’s not like you’re capable of better. But people make the comparison to show how disproportionate the left’s demands for punishment are, not to argue this is “ok”.

            It is interesting that left wingers believe the punishment their allies received for similar offenses amounted to nothing even as they scream others should be jailed for decades.

            1. Whatever the punishment for terrorism is should do fine.

              There hasn’t been an equivalent crime committed in this country since the early 19th century, and even that was foreigners.

              1. 2 billion dollars in damage, 25 dead, hundreds of police officers hospitalized…

                Vs…

                A few windows and one officer.

                Which one is the terorrism?

                1. Sorry, a few windows in which building? And what were they doing there?

                  At least lie well, asshole.

                  1. “”And what were they doing there?””

                    I’ve heard they were looking at paintings.

              2. Whatever the punishment for terrorism is should do fine.

                The real Tony: oppose the state and we’ll pretend even unimportant delays are terrorism. Who is the fucking booklicker?

      3. Apparently thousands and practically all of them lived.

    3. Funny how we had riots over the killing of unarmed people in 2020. Now I hear some of the same people saying she got what she deserved. I’m thinking that’s what a lot of people said about the guy who was shot after falling asleep in a Wendy’s drive through, resisted arrest, assaulted the officer, stole his weapon, and fled the scene.

      1. Make no mistake, she is 100% a victim. They all are. You are too.

        You are victims of powerful interests who for whatever reason wanted to fill your head with rightwing propaganda.

        If you choose to stage a coup against the United States, the United States will put you in a cage or a box, no matter how much of a retard you are. Self-defense, you understand.

        1. Projection at it’s finest.

        2. Btw, a coup is when people not in power try to remove the people in power so they can take power.

          Trying to delaying the EC vote, as stupid as it is, does not amount to a coup.

          Those who broke the law should be charged. I have said that about all the riots. But funny how the law isn’t being applied equally. If so the leaders of the CHAD would have been arrested for sedition since they actually took control of US property and claimed it was no longer under US control and tried to set their own government up.

          1. Technically speaking this is a self-coup or autocoup. The legitimately* elected president trying to maintain power despite legitimately losing reelection.

            I saw it happen. It was all he did for a month instead of caring about the hundreds of thousands of people dead on his watch.

            Next time pick a more credible strongman, how about. This one, shit. Hillary should have cheated in 2016.

            1. “”The legitimately* elected president trying to maintain power despite legitimately losing reelection.””

              It’s ok to try to maintain the power you lawfully have until the time comes for you to officially hand it over. That time has yet to come.

              1. The handover typically takes the better part of three months. Now in addition to attempting a coup, by refusing to concede Trump has hobbled the incoming administration and left the United States vulnerable to God knows what threats. Threats like the Russian hack of the government that happened. And given his clearly established pattern, for all we know he invited them in to do it. We’re still assessing the damage from that alone. Just swept that under the rug didn’t you? I bet you’d care if it had been Obama.

                How many ways does he have to commit treason before you jump ship? Do you like making a fool of yourself?

                1. There has been no treason.

                  No one does better than making themselves look like a fool than you.

                  1. Vic, Imagine for a moment that Obama had just lost re election, despite his rather ham-fisted an obvious attempts at voter suppression by hobbling the entire US mail system. Imagine he has exhausted 5 dozen lawsuits, all ruled against him. Imagine he never stops lying to the press and anyone who will listen that he was robbed of this election.

                    Now imagine he promotes a Blank Panther rally just outsie the capitol building on the day the new president is meant to be elected. Imagine he tells these black panthers that the event is going to be “wild!” Imagine he gets in front of that screaming and cheering black crowd in black berets, holding up black fists, and tells them that they were robbed. That they cannot stop fighting. That they need to “march on the capitol”. Imagine Holder gets up there, does a black power salute, then tells them they need to “demand trial by combat!”

                    Now imagine that that black crowd storms the capitol building, interrupts the EC vote for new president Rand Paul, and in the process cause the deaths of 5 people, including a cop. Imagine they leave pipe bombs about (Jesse, don’t make me embarrass you on this point, I will, again) and steal artifacts of our history.

                    You think you all would be as blase as you are today?

                    1. “”You think you all would be as blase as you are today?””

                      How am I being blase when I believe people should be charged for any crime they committed but should be charged accordingly?

                      I would make the same statements that I am now because I am not partisan.

                    2. Comparing yesterday’s seditious conspiracy to the CHAZ is pretty blase. It reads to me like minimization. Something you would not be doing if my comparison scenario had just occurred.

                    3. Now imagine he promotes a Blank Panther rally just outsie the capitol building on the day the new president is meant to be elected. Imagine he tells these black panthers that the event is going to be “wild!” Imagine he gets in front of that screaming and cheering black crowd in black berets, holding up black fists, and tells them that they were robbed. That they cannot stop fighting. That they need to “march on the capitol”. Imagine Holder gets up there, does a black power salute, then tells them they need to “demand trial by combat!”

                      You forgot to include that, like Trump, he tells them to go “peacefully and patriotically.”

          2. “TrickyVic (old school)
            January.8.2021 at 6:50 pm

            Btw, a coup is when people not in power try to remove the people in power so they can take power.

            Trying to delaying the EC vote, as stupid as it is, does not amount to a coup. ”

            You are a f*cking idiot and need to read some history.

            Coups are also used by people in power to establish absolute power. The two most famous examples of this are Napoleon Bonaparte and Louis Napoleon Bonaparte. In fact Napoleon Bonaparte’s is the epitome of coup d’etats.

            1. Yes, read history.
              Then we can all see that the Left’s actions align exactly with those of the Nazis in their rise to power.

              1. Laura Ingraham is never going to fuck you dude.

  18. All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others and our humble public servants are the most equal of all. You can fuck with normies all you want but when you cause Nancy Pelosi to poop her Depends just a little bit there are no depths of Hell to which she will not send you for that unforgivable sin.

  19. They should have fought for Trump before the election with the same persistence that they now make cowardly excuses for his loss, and with the same aggressiveness that they now attack his allies. They have only themselves to blame and their movement is doomed by its own hypocrisy.

    They didn’t fight because few know how to effectively combat the appeal of socialism and counter its bullying advocates (on enemy terrain not in safe spaces like Reason). But they are going to have to learn, and many of these people will soon have plenty of time to do that.

    1. What do you suggest they should have done before the election specifically?

      1. What did you do to fight for Trump before the election other than bicker on here with faux socialists and scream slogans into your friends’ ears at MAGA rallies?

        Or did you just make excuses for doing nothing?

        “Trump won because they didn’t let us fight for him. I never said that you liar.”

        Is that what you’re going with?

        1. It’s a perfectly valid question. You put forth the idea. What exactly did you have in mind when you said it?

          1. Yes, it’s a perfectly valid question. What did you do before the election to help Trump with the same persistence as you now interrogate his supporters after he lost?

            1. Answer you question first.

              1. Thanks for making my point. Read my original comment. You have only yourself to blame.

            2. I’ll go first, but I bet you will still not answer your question.

              I did nothing because I am not pro Trump.

              Please cite where I’m interrogating any of his supports?

              1. But before you cite that. Answer R Mac’s question.

                1. If you’re not pro Trump then nothing I ever say will be sufficient for you. But you are another reason Trump lost, which is my original point.

                  1. But it’s not the answer to R Mac’s question.

                    1. If R Mac supported Trump, then he sees that he lost because the ‘not pro Trump’ people like you simply outpersisted him and Trump lost fair and square and there’s no justification for these riots. If he’s not pro Trump, then what does he care?

                    2. But that doesn’t answer the question.

              2. So if you’re not pro Trump then you should be happy about his loss and oppose these riots. Or you just want to argue for the sake of it?

                1. I do oppose the riots. I also oppose unequal application of the law. I’ve already said both in this thread.
                  “”Those who broke the law should be charged.”” It’s right above you in my 6:50 pm post.

                  I’m not arguing anything. I’m trying to get you to answer R Mac’s question. Maybe you think it’s arguing because that’s what you are doing to avoid answering the question.

                  1. Trump lost because R Mac should have fought you not me. He has only himself to blame and he knows it, which is why he went radio silent.

                    1. He is silent because he is patiently awaiting your answer.

                    2. He should have fought ‘not pro Trump’ people like you – before the election, on enemy terrain – with the same persistence that you now fight me. Then Trump would have stood a chance. And that’s my original point.

                    3. What do you suggest they should have done before the election specifically?

                    4. If Trump supporters had fought for him before the election with the same cohesion that they now storm the capital and gang up on his supporters with pathetic recriminations and deny it, he would have stood a chance. They have only themselves to blame and they know it.

                    5. Still can’t answer the question.

                    6. Let someone who’s avowedly pro Trump ask the question. If there are none, then that’s the reason Trump lost and the accusations of ‘voter fraud’ are obviously just pathetic and cowardly excuses by sore losers and these riots are completely unjustified if not outright treason.

                    7. “”Let someone who’s avowedly pro Trump ask the question.””

                      We are not talking about asking questions. Just trying to get you to answer one.

                    8. Trump lost because he apparently had no supporters other than me. I fought but couldn’t do it alone. You out-persisted us, it’s as simple as that. And thanks for the demonstration, please continue:

                    9. What demonstration? Just trying to get you to answer one question. That’s all. Just one question that R Mac asked. This could all be over in the very next post if you just answer the question.

            3. They went to court and tried to stop the election rules from being changed at the last minute to be told they had no standing until after the election. Then told ot was most after the election.

              1. It was moot*

              2. I guarantee you none of the idiots who stormed the capital fought either in court or online on enemy territory, or they tried and got their asses handed to them. That’s why we lost. And this will be obvious when during the trial they are asked, “And what specifically did you do before the election to help Trump win?” They’ll have no answer. Their movement is doomed by its own hypocrisy.

                1. “”“And what specifically did you do before the election to help Trump win?” They’ll have no answer. “”

                  It’s you who has had no answer to that question.

              3. You think I won’t post the same link that gets you to disappear every time you make this completely fraudulent point just because this is way down thread? I’ll do it.

                Fuck it, I’ll do it anyway. But I’ve posted it and made you disappear so many times, that I’ll just link to the last time I posted it and you went away.

                https://reason.com/2021/01/06/a-dem-sweep-in-georgia-election-could-pave-way-for-trillions-in-new-federal-spending/#comment-8676615

                1. How much of that spending will get added to the debt?

      2. Well, here is one idea from Pennsylvania at least.

        In Pennsylvania, the Democrats filed a lawsuit to try to get the deadline for counting absentee ballots extended for a few days after election day. Republicans challenged it, but they lost. They appealed, and lost.

        So what they COULD have done, is what Democrats did: get their ground game going to try to boost turnout among their own voters with absentee ballots.

        But instead, they seemed to cede the field to the Democrats when it came to the ground game for absentee balloting. Why they did that, I don’t know.

  20. The Democrats are introducing articles of impeachment against Trump for inciting a riot.

    I guess they’re determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    I bet Biden is on the phone to Pelosi right now begging her to stop. They’re about to overplay their hand before the cards are even dealt.

    1. Team R still has control of the Senate. It will be another failed attempt to remove him from office.

      1. Can’t wait to see how they treat their enemies when they have complete control.
        SleepyJoe gonna settle some scores!

      2. Exactly.

        They’ll make Trump even more of a martyred saint.

      3. Maybe. Or there may just be enough republican senators who would throw him under the bus thinking ahead to 2024.

        Well we shall see. At this point the butt covering that is going on leads me to believe there’s gonna be payback.

        1. I think some Rs in the Senate will position themselves to run out the clock. Trump leaves office in less than two weeks.

          “”Or there may just be enough republican senators who would throw him under the bus thinking ahead to 2024.””

          Yeah, It’s going to be interesting to see.

          1. It takes two-thirds of them to convict.

            That won’t happen.

            McConnell will just run out the clock.

            1. Before they vote on a verdict they have to have a trial. It could take a while to get that witness list together.

              I think the Rs have plenty of tactics for delay at their disposal.

              1. And all the while, His Fraudulency’s legislative agenda grinds to a halt. Of course, preparing for a senate trial could take months. Months in which no nominee fails to require a cloture vote. Months in which Team R reminds the country that we have better things to do, like getting aid to the people who need it. And helping micro business (less than 1MM in gross receipts) get up and running again. Months of where we see more ‘mostly’ peaceful protests.

            2. They can have a trial even after January 20. But they have to do impeachment before him.

              I’m curious: Does the President still have pardon power between the time he’s impeached and before his trial? If not, it might be worthwhile impeaching him now.

              1. The pardon power is absolute. Any POTUS has it until they leave office.

    2. Biden is eating his tapioca and watching Matlock, he has no idea what’s going on.

      1. It’s been the same episode over and over. It seems vaguely familiar to him but can’t remember why he thinks that.

        1. That’s the leader of the free world you’re talking about!
          /dies a little inside

          1. You ain’t seen nothing yet.

    3. They also created many enemyists and now have banned Parler.

      They are also introducing legislation to expel 100 house members and a handful of senators for questioning the election.

    4. Ken Shultz is correct, once again.

  21. What would we think of a president who pardoned a guy who killed a cop while trying to assassinate a president? Or who pardoned three people who fired on congressmen on the sacred floor of the House, wounding five of them? President Carter did this in 1979 and we will all see someday, maybe soon, how beloved and honored he will be during eulogies at his funeral service.

    1. Carter was trying to heal the nation after the 60s. It was about unity.

  22. Wow, ok, you can murder four unarmed black teenagers, no one even lifts an eyebrow. You break a window and occupy a public office, and sit in the big woman’s chair, you get on a terrorist no-fly list.

    1. You could choose not to crap sympathy for the terrorists all over the place. Republicans in Congress are abandoning Trump over this. I don’t think you want to be left holding this bag of shit, noticing only after it’s too late that you’re in a room full solely of Trumps and Stephen Miller.

      1. History will not look kindly on you and your racist ilk.

        1. How kind of you to grant the rest of the human race a history. Here I thought you were ready to blow the whole place up because of Trump’s hurt feelings. Of course there’s still 12 days left.

          1. How were you not angry for the summer riots. Honest question. Is it because you agreed politically?

            1. Remember, he is a troll with no life.

            2. Because any anger I could possibly have felt about some vandalism during the largest civil rights protests in history was quickly replaced by the anger I felt at rightwing cunts for ratfucking the whole thing for their own evil ends, as usual.

  23. Let’s see how well reason and the cosplay libertarians actually believe in free speech.

    Parler has been suspended form apple store and Google play.

    Congrats authoritarian sycophants, you were warned.

    1. You noticed, too, huh?

      1. What has happened the last 2 days should be unconscionable to any actual libertarian. But here yesterday people like jeff were defending the actions.

        We are truly marching closer to CCP like governance with a friendly state (DNC) media, threats of arrests for incitement for people not even there, the majority party now trying to expel duly elected members of the opposition party.

        It is insane.

        1. Are you able to distinguish between private companies and government agencies?

          Comparing Google’s actions to what the CCP does is facile and idiotic. It is just a lazy ignorant comparison meant to rile people up.

          1. Parler is a private company. Dnc aligned companies are using market power to shut them down.

            Of course you’re okay with this because you’re a piece of shit.

            This is how fascism works as well sweetie.

            1. “DNC aligned” or not, Parler does not have a right to expropriate Google’s private property and appear in their app store without Google’s consent.

              And why don’t you read what I wrote below before you start declaring whether I am “okay” with it or not.

              1. And what possible reason does Google have for banning Parler from their app store? That they treat their platform like a public forum instead of censoring it the way the CCP stooges who run Google would like?

                Would you be equally OK with Google if Parler had instead been banning Communist propaganda from its platform, and Google banned them for that?

                1. And what possible reason does Google have for banning Parler from their app store?

                  Well, this seems to explain it:

                  https://www.axios.com/capitol-mob-parler-google-ban-826d808d-3e06-4468-a7c6-6157557818b3.html

                  My personal preference is that these forums should have only light moderation. But I am not in Google’s shoes, nor in Parler’s shoes, and I fully admit I only know part of the story.

        2. Jesse, private property rights mean things. Google has private property rights. So does Apple. If they don’t want an app in their app store, they shouldn’t be forced to carry it.

          1. You really think they have private property rights?

            You actually believe that this was the result of their simple exercise of their Rights?

            I got a bridge to sell you.

            Two giant companies randomly and independently come to the same decision on the same day? For no reason other than that they are exercising their own rights as companies!

            Yeah, that happened.

            We went through 10 months of continuous riots throughout the country with black lives matter and antifa using Twitter and Facebook to coordinate their actions. Not a peep from anyone about it. Hundreds of people were killed. Many tens of millions of dollars in property damage.

            But two glass doors get broken and a policeman shoots an unarmed protester and suddenly an app that has no proven connection to any of the events needs to be banned? And everybody knows it So thoroughly that without even any discussion two giant companies are able to arrive at the same conclusion at the same time!

            As I said, if you buy any of that, I got a bridge to sell you. Somebody made a phone call and they answered it. And they jumped when they were told to jump. There’s no way two separate companies came up with that same idea on the same day and jumped into action within a few hours merely because they are private companies operating with their own private discretion. That is just stupid.

            1. I think any corporation has private property rights, even if I don’t like what that corporation stands for. That includes Google and Apple. Maybe they coordinated to do it together, maybe not. That’s immaterial in my view. If they don’t want something on their property, they don’t have to justify it to you or others. That is what private property rights mean.

              1. You think it is fine for large market entities aligned with a political party to Demarket and shut down other private companies due to politics.

                Again, you’re literally a fascist.

                1. I didn’t say anything about this was “Fine”. That is you putting words in my mouth. I said that Google had the right to do what they did. Do you agree? Yes or no?

                  1. The correct answer is: it depends, but usually yes.

            2. Having worked in tech, I assume that one company had already decided that if the other banned Parler/Trump, then they would too. Then one initiates the decision, and both companies ban. They probably had already automated it.

              No one wants to become the next haven for fascism. It’s bad for business. You know, making money.

              1. Pure, unadulterated libel.

                A platform that is dedicated to the principles of free speech is going to have unsavory characters on it. So what you are saying is truly open platform cannot exist and cannot be allowed to exist.

                This is how you lose civil liberties. You say that group of people are subhuman and undeserving of rights because of what they think. But you are the arbiter of what thoughts are subhuman. Many of the groups and people who are being deplatformed are far from fascist, but even fascists are supposed to have free speech rights.

                You disagree with what they say and will defend to the death the stripping away of their rights.

                1. Does Parler have a right to appear in Google’s app store without Google’s permission?

                  1. The point being made is not whether they have the right, it is whether what they doing is right.

                2. You’re arguing with people who don’t care whether they’re right or wrong.

                  1. I’ll ask you, Ken.
                    Does Parler have a right to appear in Google’s app store without Google’s permission?

              2. Having worked in tech, I am 100% positive that all the major companies have colluded to form an unofficial oligarchy that ensures each others monopolies.

                Silencing parler isn’t about politics, it’s about competition and using politics as the shield.

            3. Two giant companies randomly and independently come to the same decision on the same day? For no reason other than that they are exercising their own rights as companies!

              Where you see a conspiracy, I see market competition. It was much more likely that one company did it and the one went “oh, shit, we better do it too, or our customers are gonna give us hell.”

              Why do you guys find it so hard to believe that millions of people would have the same reactions of disgust to these events and reach a consensus about it? I know putting themselves in other people’s shoes is not the conservatives’ forte, but maybe try it out a little?

          2. We get it Jeffrey, you’re a fascist.

            1. I’m the one sticking up for private property rights. What are you standing up for? Forcing private property owners to host content that they don’t want, by government diktat? That sounds way more authoritarian to me, Jesse.

              1. No, you aren’t your ignorant shit.

                Parler is also a private company. One that has abided by every rule on both platforms. One being shut down because democrat politicians are pressuring friendly aligned companies to take them down.

                Youre a fascist.

                Are you really this fucking stupid?

                1. Does Google have a right to decide which apps appear in their app store, or not? Yes or no Jesse?

                  If your answer is “yes”, then you are agreeing with me that Google has the right to do what they did, even if you don’t agree with their decision to exercise their right in the manner that they did.

                  If your answer is “no”, then you are in favor of taking away Google’s private property rights and forcing other apps to appear in its store without its consent. That is far more authoritarian than anything I have advocated in this discussion.

                  1. ^Total jackass.

                    1. Oh look it’s another member of the performative outrage brigade.

                    2. No. Jeff is right here, sorry. His is the libertarian take on this.

          3. Sure. And the Hollywood studios had rights, too. Does that mean we’re OK with the Hollywood blacklist?

            1. You need to distinguish between “it’s okay” and “they had the right to do it”.

              People have the right to do stupid stuff with their property. But in general it’s not “okay” to do stupid stuff.

              I’m going to stick up for property rights, as should every libertarian. That includes the property rights of corporations that we might not all like.

              We can appeal to property owners to use their property in a way that we would like to see it used, but at the end of the day, their decision is theirs, even if we think it’s stupid.

              Hollywood studios had the right to blacklist people. Google has the right to deplatform Parler.

        3. “What has happened the last 2 days should be unconscionable to any actual libertarian. But here yesterday people like jeff were defending the actions.”

          If ChemJeff is claiming to be a libertarian, don’t believe it.

          That’s ridiculous.

          1. I know, right? Who is the person here standing up for property rights? Not that crazy chemjeff guy! And who’s the ones yelling and screaming and insulting and engaging in public displays of performative outrage?

        4. “What has happened the last 2 days should be unconscionable to any actual libertarian.”

          Totally agree.

          Unfortunately, most Reason reporters and editors, and many left wing trolls who post here, are not libertarians.

    2. Well, they’re not sex-workers, so not sure if you’ll get any sympathy from the EFF.

      OH, build your own twitter.

      1. They did. Oh wait…

        1. Not their own servers.

          Might have been a bad idea to go after Bezos like that. Whoopsie.

    3. Let’s see how well reason and the cosplay libertarians actually believe in property rights.

  24. Google has dropped Parler from Google Play store–because of the disrupters yesterday.

    The Apple app store decision is pending, but they’re expected to drop Parler, too.

    This isn’t just a result of the progressive mindset at Apple and Google. It’s a political calculation, on Google’s part especially. Now that they have nothing to fear from Republicans for the next two years–and everything to fear from Biden and congressional Democrats pushing their antitrust case–this is an easy decision for them. I mean, if deplatforming a sitting president is easy for Twitter, why shouldn’t Google deplatform Parler?

    1. Good. May they can erase rightwing propaganda from the earth faster than you lunatics can cry about it.

      1. Yeah, and if you pack the Supreme Court, the First Amendment won’t get in the way either!

        . . . and then you’ll wonder why the right is being all violent again.

        You’re a very stupid person, Tony.

        1. I think you’ll be violent for the same reason as always: you’re addicted to lies, and the more inflammatory the better.

          I wish I could do you the courtesy of assuming your incessant whining about fake things was just some dedicated trolling, but unfortunately I think you’re just that much of a sad victim of your own gullibility.

          In fact the only cure for you people I can think of is cutting off the supply of your favorite drug: lies.

          Kill FOX News and Russian lies on the internet and just see if the world doesn’t seem like a much less dangerous place to you for some reason you can’t put your finger on.

          1. Yeah. Youre authoritarian.

            And liea? Biden repeated the Charlottesville hoax again just yesterday. 4 years of russia. Etc etc.

            1. The fact that you keep repeating lies you picked up on these trash propaganda websites is only confirming my belief that they have to be dealt with, and fast.

              You can’t have tens of millions of people believing the opposite of truth and manipulated by white supremacists and foreign governments. Not if they are going to vote in elections in my country.

              Free speech isn’t a principle in a vacuum. It exists for the purpose of preserving freedom of thought generally and thus the social good. Fascist propaganda is a cancer on free speech, not to mention a proximate cause of genocide and such.

              Wednesday means we no longer get to live under the illusion that Rwanda can’t happen here. And there never would have been a Rwanda without Rwandan talk radio. I’m sure Rush Limbaugh will do just fine in hell.

              1. Free speech isn’t a principle in a vacuum. It exists for the purpose of preserving freedom of thought generally and thus the social good.

                No, Tony, that’s not how it works. Declaring that free speech is only for an arbitrarily defined “social good” is no different than endorsing censorship of all views which are not in favor of this “social good”.

                Who decides what “social good” is? You? Me? Jesse? Trump? The fascists? Be careful what you wish for.

                1. You are advocating for shutting down the speech of an entire party because a powerful institution is aligned with the other party who asked them to shut it down.

                  You have no morals sweetie. You have rationalization of your authoritarian impulses.

                  1. And yet Example #12345 of how you are a dishonest shithead who does not argue in good faith because even when I literally take your side when it comes to the importance of free speech, you must still try to stuff words in my mouth and spread lies. That must be why you like Trump so much.

                    1. I like Trump a lot — and your comments here.. Very well said especially below.

                2. I know who doesn’t decide it: people who storm the US Capitol in an attempt to overthrow the government.

                  If there are no elections, there is no First Amendment.

                  They already get to steal the fucking election because the constitution in its infinite wisdom decided slaveholders get more rights than good people. And we got Trump and his terrorist minions out of that absurdly undemocratic arrangement.

                  The internet and the propaganda it facilitates is a new problem. Rightwing propaganda is a real thing that causes genocides. We’ve always dealt with it as a matter of foreign policy. (And we’ve certainly used propaganda for our own ends.)

                  Now the fascists are in the room. Oh well. All you can do is force them back into the shadows.

                  It’s really not about an indefinite exploration of all ideas and never coming to a conclusion. We already figured out why rightwing authoritarianism is bad. Killing fascists and destroying their radio stations is something we do.

                  1. I know who doesn’t decide it: people who storm the US Capitol in an attempt to overthrow the government.

                    How do you know this, Tony? I hate to say it, but fascists have rights too. Not to overthrow the government, but to peacefully speak their minds.

                    This is the whole problem when people speak about doing things in the name of poorly-defined “society” or “the social good”. There are a lot of assholes out there, sometimes the assholes become a majority, and then THEY get to decide what “society” is or what “the social good” means. So don’t give them that power in the first place.

                    1. Best thing you have ever written.

                      Perfect!

                    2. Well said!!

                    3. What force on God’s green earth was going to stop them speaking their minds?

                      Their ideas are terrible, and they would kill both of us if they had the power to do so, and that’s why they must be kept out of power. Because they’ve told us their ideas, and those ideas are literally the worst.

                      I’m perfectly aware that power means power.

              2. It is funny you never actually outline these lies.

      2. Holy shit. I knew you were a lefty fuck but thought you were closer to a stoned hippie. Didn’t know Che and Chavez were your idols.

      3. TIME TO START BURNING BOOKS!
        Tony.

      4. So you’re OK with blacklisting, as long as it’s done to rightwingers rather than to Communists?

    2. I’m disgusted by the Nazis who hang out at Parler, but I do think that there is a libertarian case to be made for having unfettered access to all apps that their authors wish to make available in the marketplace. Just like there is a libertarian case for public roads, and easements to make sure property owners can access those public roads.

      The answer wouldn’t be to force Google/Apple to carry every app, that is unfair to Google/Apple and their property rights. It would probably come in the form of a “public app store”, I suppose.

      1. How do you know who hangs out on parlor? Taking A bunch of DNC activists word for it? I certainly don’t have a copy of it. And even if I did how in the heck would I know what the breadth of expression on the platform is?

        At least now we know why all of the writers at reason have been so circumspect about criticizing any actions taken by the left. You don’t want to end up having your internet connection banned, your banking access banned,.

        The last week has made it clear if you didn’t see the writing on the wall before now. If you ever want to work again you had better start towing that party line.

        1. It’s what I’ve read about Parler. I’m sure they’re not all Nazis. Some are fine people, I’m sure.

          So what is your solution then? Should the state force Google to carry Parler in its app store?

          1. The only thing you have read is what the far left has to say about them.

            Hell they might all be Nazis. I don’t know.

            But I know that every single person who told you they are all Nazis is a flat liar. I know that every single one of them has no idea who is on parler. They’re just repeating talking points they were handed.

            The entire point is to shut up the enemy. First they shut them up on Twitter and said go form your own Twitter. now they are making sure that anybody who does form their own Twitter gets blocked. Because the objective is to shut up anyone who disagrees with them.

            And if you don’t think you’re going to be one of those people who gets to shut the hell up, I got a bridge to sell you. you ain’t in charge of squat. And when you disagree with them, you’ll get to shut the hell up and do as you’re told to.

            1. He is just an obese fascist rationalizing his authoritarian impulses.

            2. I did not say that they were ALL Nazis. That is you putting words in my mouth.

              Maybe Google wants to “shut up the enemy”. Maybe Google just doesn’t want one of their potential competitors in its own app store. Maybe Google just doesn’t like Parler. Again it’s their private property rights.

              And I ask again, what is the correct solution here? Would you use the state to force Google to carry the Parler app in its app store?

              1. Would you use the state to force Google to carry delete the Parler app in its app store?

                1. No, not at all. It ought to be Google’s decision alone to carry an app in their store. With of course the usual caveats that the app isn’t some destructive virus or something that causes harm to devices. That’s not what Parler is as far as I know.

                2. So let me ask you, what is the correct solution here? If you don’t think Google should be forced to carry the Parler app, or some other app, what should be done instead?

                  1. The funny part here is that you still want to pretend that this was a Google decision. That is the laughable part. Just all on their own, Google made this choice. And randomly, Apple made the exact same choice on the exact same day within hours!

                    Like I said, I have a bridge to sell you.

                    1. It’s Google’s property and it was Google’s CEO which made the announcement. Who else made the decision?

          2. Link what you’ve read. This will be hilarious.

            Again. Youre literally advocating shutting down speech of people you disagree with politically.

            1. Various places. Not just a single place. I don’t have to defend my reading habits to you, of all people.

              No matter how many times you repeat FASCIST!!!!, you are the one who wants to use state power to force private companies to host content that they don’t want. What are you going to do, Jesse? Just sit there and scream Fascist all day without even examining the issue in any depth?

              1. This is the dumb part.

                The left is insisting that only the left gets to have free speech. Everyone else needs to be silenced. They are working hard to make that happen.

                It is actually happening.

                And your answer to that is hey, it’s a free country! They can shut up anybody they want! How dare those evil right-wing people want to have free speech? How dare anyone suggest that free speech is important!?!

                It’s just a facile and dumb argument.

                This has already happened. It is not hypothetical. They have been banning political speech for years now. All in one direction. And it has been coordinated behind the scenes this entire time.

                Unless you have some magical mechanism that I cannot understand, when Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, all taking action against the same people on the same day, there is something bigger going on than it private company making choices.

                And this is the second time they have come after the alternative platform. Remember when that was the mantra? Just go make your own platform!

                Except no, they’re not going to allow you to make your own platform.

                And even if you manage to reach some kind of critical mass with side loading, they’ll come after you another way. Then you’ll have to create your own infrastructure. They have come after banking, hosting companies, internet service providers,….

                You guys are pretty thick. But nobody is this stupid. It doesn’t matter if they agree with you. You have to know that this is extremely dangerous stuff.

                Free speech is the bedrock of a free society. And it is under threat like it is never been in the United States of America.

                1. You know what else is a bedrock of a free society? Private property rights.

                  I don’t have a right to go onto your private property and start screaming and shouting without your permission. You DO have every right to censor me and tell me to shut up, if I’m on your property. That is how private property rights work.

                  Again it’s not the government shutting anyone up. It’s private companies. They have a right to use their property in dumb ways if they choose to.

                  So what is your proposed solution? Should the state force Parler to appear in Google’s app store without Google’s permission?

                  1. Well, we could remove their section 230 protections, and designate them publishers. That might do the trick.

                    1. Equal treatment under the law is authoritarian to leftistarians

                  2. If you had even the tiniest bit of respect for individual rights, the only answer is that Google is wrong.

                    Get that? Google is wrong.

                    running around complaining that Google is a private company and they have every right to do anything they want to do with their own private property means that you are a fascist who supports the suppression of free speech. You are looking to justify yourself. You have no justification. You are on the side of evil.. there is no wiggle room on this one. It isn’t a close call.

                    Pretending that the entire issue is about the Gestapo coming in and forcing Google to carry an app is a ridiculous canard. The issue is what Google is doing, not that somebody else is complaining about it.

                    1. I think the answer is to ‘Time Limit’ every copyright and patient Google, Facebook, Amazon, Twitter holds. Make sure they aren’t receiving a single penny of Gov-Money (as Obama said they wouldn’t even exist without Gov-Funding). And this certainly doesn’t need to be non-equal; apply it to all. It would also fix the ‘Right to Repair’ battle as well as probably thousands of other issues and open up a free-market again.

                      I guess the point is; I have little double the ‘fix’ we are in today here is CAUSED by socialist governing and MORE socialist governing isn’t going to fix-it but instead just make it worse as it always does.

                    2. Damn, Cyto, follow the logic of your argument so you can see how stupid it is. Your argument, taken as you have put it, would say that I would be a fascist to not allow either the American Nazi Party or the CPUSA to set up a rally in my front yard because that would be suppressing their freedom of speech.

      2. Yes. Youre a fascist fuck. We understand that. You guise it as fre market principles but deny the collusion of government with these companies. Youre a really ignorant fascist.

        1. Does Google have the right to decide which apps appear in their app store or not? Yes or no, Jesse?

        2. All you want to do is to scream FASCIST!!!!!! That’s it. Just performative theater. Why don’t you put on the Viking hat and the fur coat and parade around in the Capitol as the Trump Shaman, it would be about as intellectually productive as what you’re doing now.

        3. You won’t answer the difficult questions that require you to think about the actual principles and consequences and ramifications involved here. All you want to do is scream and yell and call people names. Kinda like the Capitol protestors. They didn’t want to think about the ramifications or principles or consequences of having a Vice President declare null and void the electoral votes of several states. They just wanted to put on Viking hats and wave Confederate flags and yell and scream and shout and bask in an orgy of collective victimhood. That’s all you are Jesse. A performative outrage moron.

          1. Is it or is it not time to start burning books?

            1. If you wish to burn your own books in your own private library, no one should stop you from doing so, no matter how dumb of an idea it might be.

              The state shouldn’t of course force you to burn any book.

        4. “deny the collusion of government with these companies.” <<< Yes, right there is the issue. It's really as obvious as day that the socialist functioning (regulations/funding/dictating) of today's government has a handle on a media monopoly somehow; but apparently the media isn't going to tell us where/how though I figure it's somewhere in the federal budget probably hidden under some off-topic socialist system like 'research spending' or even possibly the military budget.

          But extending governments power by repealing section 230 when government is the root of the issue of the problem isn't going to be the cure for the problem it itself has created no matter how tempting that magical wand of POWER appears to be.

          1. I’ll even throw my theory out there (though admit its just a theory). Remember that comment when Trump was a president-elect about “watch out for the intelligence department”…. There is multiple media outlets claiming they receive daily news from the CIA, stamp their name on it (already written) and publish. There’s some backing to those claims here
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksb3KD6DfSI&feature=emb_logo

            Then there’s a history of it with COINTELPRO and even legislation to allow it legally (i.e. Patriot Act which they don’t seem to want to repeal) that makes some of domestic militarization okay. The military has for many years had a psyops program. It’s exactly what we see today domestically; false narrated news. “The swamp” wraps up this theory in one name pretty well.

            Anyways; That’s my theory.

            1. And where the theory started.
              http://www.theguardian .com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

              Centcom confirmed that the $2.76m contract was awarded to Ntrepid, a newly formed corporation registered in Los Angeles. It would not disclose whether the multiple persona project is already in operation or discuss any related contracts.

              ntrepidcorp .com/academy/
              Trusted By
              Associated Combatant Commands
              Department of Defense
              Law Enforcement
              Military
              Office of Inspector General

              careers-ntrepidcorp. icims. com/jobs/1647/job
              Ntrepid is looking for an Intelligence Analyst to carry out various analyticial tasks for a government customers.
              – Maintain expertise with social media platforms and data from social networking sites

    3. In this post, Ken carefully calls his rioting comrades “disrupters”. A very neat and clever way to avoid being called a hypocrite if he called them protestors or rioters. How clever, Ken.

      (My how the turntables have turned)

      1. Where’s your answer, Jesse?
        Should the state force Google to accept the Parler app in its app store? Yes or no?

        1. Okay, since you have settled in on this idiotic talking point I will give you an answer.

          The answer is for right thinking people to shout them down.

          Right thinking people should include pretty much everyone in the United States except for the far left progressives.

          Your answer is a stupid answer. Only a enemy of free speech would give that idiotic answer.

          Suppressing the speech of others is not freedom. Doesn’t matter how many times you try to pretend it is. Every single human being who does not stand up to these orwellian measures is accountable. there should be zero debate about this. There should not be a single person who thinks about politics and political issues who goes, “yeah it’s a good idea to silence people we disagree with.”

          This is basic American civics. This is fundamental to the enlightenment. Any fourth grader should be able to answer why this is bad. And shifting the goalposts with some idiotic gamesmanship about it’s their right to shut down other people’s speech is just stupid.

          Like that isn’t even 6th grade debate class level tactics. It’s just stupid. It’s the equivalent of nu-uh, you!

          they’re the ones taking actions to shut down all debate in this country. They’re the ones who are working tirelessly to ensure that all you get is their propaganda. That makes them the enemy of freedom. It should be pretty bog standard for anyone who even bothers to read a libertarian website to know that this is anathema to everything that America stands for. It isn’t close. It’s not like this is some grand debate among libertarians. Freedom of speech is sacrosanct. Trying to drag it over into some kind of corporate freedom argument is stupid. It’s stupid because this is not about corporate freedom. They are not acting because they are free to do so. They have been coerced into action. The far left has been coordinated and focused like a laser on this, with tens of millions of dollars behind the effort for decades. Anyone who reads a libertarian website should know this.

          If you are an American and you do not raise your voice against this kind of censorship, there is something wrong with you. I don’t care what your political stripe is.

          My black ex-wife and I contributed to the ACLU when they defended the right of the clan to March in our hometown in Georgia. Because even stupid and reprehensible speech should be protected.

          Everyone here should know that. The idea that there is even one person at a libertarian site that does not know this makes my brain hurt. freedom of speech is the number one thing. If you can’t talk about it, you can’t do anything else.

          Now, stop spouting idiotic talking points, get on the right side of this simple issue, and raise your voice. And we can all go to re-education camps together.

          1. The answer is for right thinking people to shout them down.

            So, “right thinking people” should shout Google down until they relent and put the Parler app back in their app store, due to pressure from voluntary boycotts and protests and the like? Just want to be clear on what precisely you think is the proper remedy here.

            And kudos to you and your wife for standing up for the First Amendment rights of protestors in the face of *government* repression. But in this case we are not talking about *government* infringements of First Amendment rights. We are talking about private property owners exercising their private property rights – sometimes in dumb ways.

            1. Just admit that you are a authoritarian hack and have no compunction about usurping the rights of others and move on. Your arguments are stupid and not worth anyone spending any time on them. I was serious, no right thinking human being is going to run around making the arguments you are making. You are on the wrong side, without reservation. There is nothing right about what you advocate. It isn’t even close. The you that you were when you were in sixth grade knew that. The fact that you don’t know it now is pathetic. The notion that just because someone agrees with me I will violate my principles is anathema to being a rational being.

              1. It’s been kinda sad to watch your descend into authoritarianism and Trumpism here over the years, Cyto. You used to be a right-leaning libertarian, and now this. Jeff is absolutely right here, from a libertarian perspective.

              2. All I’ve read from you on this topic is grandstanding and performative outrage theater. Except for one nugget of an idea, I suppose: you want to use the power of voluntary boycotts and social pressure to persuade Google to change their minds and put Parler back in their app store. Okay, that’s a fine idea that doesn’t result in anyone’s rights being violated. But just understand that in this particular case, I don’t think that is going to work, because I don’t think there is going to be large enough pressure to work to change Google’s mind here. I could be wrong, who knows. But I really doubt it.

                1. I’ll make it really simple for you. Anyone who says anything other than Google is wrong is on the wrong side.

                  It has nothing to do with Trump.

                  It has nothing to do with any politician.

                  Silencing people you disagree with is wrong. Anyone who has an L next to their name knows this.

                  Pretending that this is a property rights issue is dishonest. You are jumping past the issue and pretending that some far future potential response is the actual problem. That is stupid. The issue is that the progressives have pressured all of tech and all of the press into censoring anything that disagrees with them. If you can’t understand why this is a danger to a free society, there is no helping you. It is self evident.

                  1. Laws are written that make it illegal to express certain opinions. A broad range of opinions that weren’t controversial even 5 years ago are enough to remove your ability to use any platform for speech. I can respect that a company has the right to do what they want with their property, but one must be blind to not see how disastrous these actions are for freedom. I’ve been screaming for years about how political correctness is the active destruction of language. What we see now is the next step. This is 1984 level shit and what is most alarming is how many people cheer it on

          2. And just to be clearer on where I stand.

            I am not defending “the left”‘s record on free speech, not at all. Too many of them are like Tony above, who think about free speech in utilitarian terms. That’s not right.

            I don’t want the government to coercively shut me up. That would be wrong.

            However, I ALSO don’t want government to coerce me to TOLERATE speech on my property that I DON’T want. That would ALSO be wrong because it would violate my property rights.

            With private individuals and private property, I would implore them to respect the values of free speech. I think that is a good idea. But at the end of the day, it is their property, and if they want to be censorious assholes with their property, they have every right to do so.

            1. Yes you are. That is all you were doing.

              The left has been trying to use the state power to silence their opponents since before you were born.

              At this moment we have the left insisting that people on the right be censored. And we have the right insisting that people not be censored. And your take is to complain about government force stopping people from being censored. There is no the government force. It’s a stupid argument. Stop making it.

              This is akin to saying that it is the same thing to complain about being gang raped as it is to be a gang rapist. It is not the same thing. They are not in the same bucket. And the fact that that’s where you choose to put your flag in the sand means that you are full on behind them with both feet in their camp. No amount of but I really don’t support them moves the needle at all. That is all that is, a knee-jerk, partisan reaction argument to try and bolster your side. You sound like some brown shirt trying to justify locking Jews up. It’s a stupid and venal argument that nobody should ever be making.

              1. You people did more than most to insist on maximum corporate power to be both free to do what they want and to form monopolies.

                Sorry you failed to predict the ways you could be hoisted on your own retard.

                1. I use to believe in Antitrust till I reviewed the Constitution and found NO federal authority for it. But I did run into patient and copyright which has been abused by government to create monopolies.

                  Besides; according to Obama – Google and Facebook wouldn’t even exist without the government. I mean he lied all the time but maybe he was right.
                  https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-google-facebook-would-not-exist-without-government-funding

                  So according the Obama maybe it’s the result of maximum government power

            2. ^HERE… Chemjeff says it perfectly. If it’s YOUR property you get to censor it all you WANT…. Don’t throw property rights under the bus just because there’s a lot of bad actors because those bad actors are going to use that bus to run you over.

              1. All rights have been thrown under the bus.
                We don’t have a constitutional republic anymore, we have totalitarian dictatorship.
                If that isn’t clear to you yet, it will be soon.

                1. You’re not kidding; why burn the book just ban all the words…

                  The Democrats envision a world where the term Mother and Father is offensive.
                  https://conservativebrief.com/nancy-pelosi-gender-terms-32165/

      2. Oh wait, you’re just going to yell FASCIST!!!! again in another outburst of performative outrage.

    4. Wishing Parker well in any antitrust lawsuit they choose to engage in

      1. There may be a good argument for collusion.

        It might even be surprising if Google and Apple never discussed it with each other.

  25. How long do you think it will be before they come after Substack? Those people are mostly apostates. They really hate those guys.

    1. I suspect Mastodon is the final frontier.

      There isn’t one Mastodon server. They are legion.

  26. I’m hoping Pelosi instructs/allows House Democrats to impeach Trump a second time (just because they hate him) with less than a week before his term ends.

    That will result in many more Americans realizing they were duped by left wing monopolists, propagandists and politicians into voting for Biden and other Democrats.

    1. I hope Trump declassifies state secrets before they do

      1. Actually, he should leak them to Assange and then pardon him.

    2. I’d be happier with busting election fraud as I believe it’s probably been going on for a very long time. Or maybe I have too much faith in American’s actually being American. In my mind; Their is no way they can be *that* stupid.

  27. What a waste of time and resources. Just make it illegal to not be a member of the Communist Democrat party.

    1. Depending on your talent/ability to communicate with the masses; Obama’s administration already did! RE: Dinesh D’Souza. To multiple people as well as IRS witch-hunts and etc, etc, etc…

      My only hope is Biden won’t be as-bad; but no matter how hard I try I find it very difficult to believe. Even Obama wasn’t crazy enough to pitch idea’s of Green New Deals and throw the entire energy industry under totalitarian control. Though he sure stomped out the mining and diesel industry.

      1. We have to overthrow the government because they might send less tax money to oil companies!@!!!@2

        1. The 2nd amendment wasn’t written for a persons art gallery. And as far as Tax Money to oil is concerned UR completely F.O.S. (I’ve already been down that road).

          Democratic Socialist’s are pushing that line were an overthrow of Nazi governing will be necessary for a free society (just as overthrowing Hitler and the Nazi’s was necessary). So sitting on your high-horse about maintaining Nazism in the name of an American government doesn’t make you any more righteous than Hitler.

        2. But I do find it ironic you find “commie-money” handouts distasteful consider your full-on demonstration to support a party ALL about handouts.

        3. Iran has oil companies and we know how much your side loves sending them money.

        4. Tony gets drunk and then replays the early 2000s in his head and sometimes in performance art here.

  28. Prepare to comply with your betters’ preferences, bigoted clingers.

    Or get run over.

    Either way, I will be content. I don’t like right-wing bigots and superstitious slack-jaws.

    1. The weather in Saginaw is cloudy and cold with a chance of snow.

      At the beep the time will be 2:53 PM

    1. Sasse wasted most of that disappointing interview trashing Trump and the RNC.

      Never Trumpers like Sasse are NOT the future of the GOP.

    2. Sasse is a one horse pony – his schtick was rail on Trump and now that’s gone. He’d do better switching to the democrats.

  29. President-elect Joe Biden has picked three Democratic House members to serve in his administration, which means Pelosi will have only a three-seat majority when the next Congress convenes.
    https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/07/georgia-confirms-the-pre-trump-gop-is-dead-and-gone/

    Looks like Pelosi won’t be ramming much, if any, legislation through the House.

    1. Not so fast, Bill. The Congressmen are from heavily Democratic districts and will be quickly replaced by other Democrats in special elections.

      1. And if not… Ballot printer go brrr…. 🙂

    2. Somehow Bill, I think they’ll manage just fine.

      Did you think they were going to wake up the next day—-like it was some hangover after an Ambion, credit cards and Ebay binge the night before—-and start screaming about they totally couldn’t see this coming? If they don’t already have the votes, they wouldn’t have made the appointments.

      Jesus dude, they’re Evil, but not that stupid.

    3. I assure you the democrats will be passing lots of legislation over the next two years.

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