FDA

What a Frozen Cherry Pie Says About FDA Regulatory Foot-Dragging

It took 15 years for the agency to decide that consumers didn’t actually need to be protected from the threat of substandard fruit desserts.

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American cherry pie manufacturers may soon be able to decide for themselves how many cherries their frozen pies should have, free of burdensome federal regulations.

Former Food and Drug Administration (FDA) head Scott Gottlieb tweeted out praise that his former staff have successfully arranged to deregulate the contents of cherry pies after—no kidding—two years of hard work (and he's actually understating it, but I'll get to that):

So, is this now federal pie anarchy? No. (Unfortunately.) In 1971, the FDA established regulations imposing particular standards for frozen cherry pies. The lengthy regulations (read them here) determine not just how much of the pie must be made of cherries (25 percent by weight) and how many of the cherries may be "blemished," or have scabs, or be of less than stellar quality (under 15 percent, even though pies are a great place to put blemished fruit to keep it from going to waste), but also establishes complicated rules for determining compliance.

While the FDA has been granted the power by Congress to regulate frozen foods and fruits, including pies, it's very important to explain that these regulations were only implemented for cherry pies. There are no other similar regulations for other types of fruit pies. And there are no similar regulations for fresh pies to control the number and quality of the cherries in them. Just frozen pies, and only the cherry ones.

And so under Gottlieb and by request of the American Bakers Association (ABA), a trade association and lobbying organization, the FDA began rethinking this rule. The ABA argued that consumers, not the federal government, should decide whether they want to shell out more money for pies with more fruit in them or spend less money on lower-quality pies, if that's what they can afford.

Ultimately the FDA agreed with the ABA, because, they note in the proposed rule change, there has been no push to regulate any other similar types of fruit pies:

We are not aware of any evidence suggesting that consumers have different expectations for unbaked, frozen cherry pies than for other cherry pies. At the same time, no other cherry pies are subject to a standard of identity or a standard of quality, and we are aware of no evidence indicating that such standards are necessary to promote honesty and fair dealing in the interest of consumers or to ensure that those cherry pies meet consumer expectations. Similarly, other fruit pies are not subject to standards of identity or quality, and we are aware of no evidence indicating that such standards are necessary to promote honesty and fair dealing in the interest of consumers or to ensure that the pies meet consumer expectations.

The agency also notes that the regulations forbid the use of artificial sweeteners in unbaked frozen cherry pies, and only those pies and no other types of pies (including unfrozen cherry pies). So the feds are forbidding bakers from creating lower-sugar options, even if that's what consumers are asking for.

This is actually a notification of the rule change and not the rule change itself, so Gottlieb's celebration is possibly a little premature. There's a 90-day commenting process that ends in March, under the leadership of President-elect Joe Biden.

Does this mean that we're suddenly going to get cherry pies full of all sorts of awful garbage? Well, no. Who would buy them? Your local grocer's freezers are likely full of frozen blackberry, blueberry, and apple pies as well that don't have these regulations. Are they all terrible? No. You might not even know because your grocer's bakery probably offers remarkably cheap fresh pies, including cherry pies, that don't fall under these regulations anyway, and you might just pick up one of those and save time.

The reality is that it's not 1971 anymore, and innovations in both agriculture and food preparation have given Americans more options and competition, such that people don't actually have to settle for crappy frozen cherry pies. But the federal government implemented regulations that added additional costs to enforce compliance. The FDA study notes that there are currently 40 distinct frozen cherry pies produced by 20 different companies. That's a lot of competition for your pie money forcing companies to be honest.

It seems like a silly thing for Gottlieb to celebrate, but it was a silly thing for the federal government to regulate in the first place. And it took years for the government to reconsider it. Yet even now, people responding to Gottlieb's tweet think that food companies just can't wait to fill their cherry pies full of crappy, rotten fruit and filler, even though they haven't been doing that all along to the pies that weren't being regulated.

What's amazing about all of this, and very relevant given all the horrible foot-dragging we've seen from the FDA in responding to the COVID-19 pandemic, is that the petition from the ABA was submitted to the FDA in 2005. It has taken 15 years and an FDA head who was actually interested in deregulation to get rid of an obsolete rule that didn't really serve any valuable role in protecting consumers.

The FDA's terrible management of America's attempts to innovate solutions for the COVID-19 pandemic put its dysfunctional bureaucracy into the spotlight. Thousands of people are now dying every day. The drawn-out effort to get rid of completely unnecessary frozen cherry pie regulations shows how poorly the agency is able to evaluate and react to risks and harms.

NEXT: Effigy’s German Serial Killer Drama Weaves Intoxicating—and Toxic—Tale

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  1. First? Or will a bot beat me to it?

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  2. So a Trump win such as it is. Expect the reverse with Harris Biteme and watch as they increase regs a hundred fold.

    But Trump was the villain :/

    1. Didn’t you read the article? The rule won’t be released until 2021 so it will be under Bidem’s leadership. The author was clearly mentioning that,

  3. The reality is that it’s not 1971 anymore, and innovations in both agriculture and food preparation have given Americans more options and competition, such that people don’t actually have to settle for crappy frozen cherry pies.
    Does it matter if there are options I like? If the pies are bad, I won’t buy them. If they are labelled as cherry pies, but aren’t cherry pies, then I see a problem.

    1. Well, there has long been confusion around apples and oranges; and recently apples and bananas.

    2. ” If they are labelled as cherry pies, but aren’t cherry pies, then I see a problem.”

      Is there some reason why you think generic laws on false advertising and/or fraud wouldn’t be able to handle that?

      1. Exactly. And that’s one reason why it’s so hard to get these things changed. Most people are very bad at thinking things through. “They’re protecting me from bad pies! Why would we change that?”

      2. Just saying fraud is an appropriate area for government involvement. The quality of pies is not.

  4. She’s my cherry pie
    Cool drink of water, such a sweet surprise
    Tastes so good, makes a grown man cry
    Sweet Cherry Pie, yeah

    1. I should have known I wouldn’t be able to get to this joke first.

      1. Truly, the FDA has no Warrant for regulating pie.

      2. It’s not so much a joke as a cowflop waiting to be scraped up.

      3. Low hanging fruit is my bread and butter.

        1. Bread comes from grains not fruit, and butter is an animal byproduct.

    2. I used to piss off the driver by blasting that tape on my boom box from the back of the bus.

  5. Add this to the long list of Trump deregulation! Yay Trump!

  6. This is how you get that Freedom Ranking back up to 15th from a lowly 17th.

  7. Surprised it didn’t go the other way and have them decide that all frozen fruit pies need to be regulated.

    The sheer regulatory empire building possibilities are endless. Is rhubarb a fruit? What about rhubarb strawberry pies? What constitutes a bruised fruit for frozen pumpkin pies or would they be considered a non-fruit pie? Why are frozen non-fruit pies not regulated? There should be a department for that.

    1. Wait until next year under the Harris Administration.

  8. Now everyone that eats a cherry pie will die.

    1. Eventually.

  9. I want to know if under the old regulations the required number of cherries in a frozen cherry pie was a multiple of Pi.

    1. I like it.

      1. Mathematicians are stupid.

        They think Pi r square.

        That’s wrong. Pi r round. Brownies r square.

    2. We the peons were dependent
      upon this multiple transcendent(al)

  10. I don’t know how much those who make frozen cherry pies get paid, but it should be around four times as much as the FDA people get for being involved.

  11. The lengthy regulations (read them here) determine not just how much of the pie must be made of cherries (25 percent by weight) and how many of the cherries may be “blemished”

    The algorithm for computing minimum pie weight given the diameter was probably a career maker for some enterprising FDA weenie.

  12. Ok so who pushed for these regulations in the first place back in 71? Would be interesting to find out.

    1. The Apple Pie lobby to give them an advantage.

  13. Because of the administration Reason writers complained about every day.

    Starting in January the regulators are coming back. Reason did its part to make that happen. Jerks.

    1. True. Don’t worry about the cherry counters losing their jobs. There’ll be much more for them to do.

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  18. There are hundreds/thousands of other unwarranted, costly and anti competitive federal regulations (including many others by FDA), most of which were endorsed/advocated by one or several of the largest product manufacturers (in an effort to eliminate, reduce and prevent competition by smaller companies).

    While Gottlieb may have eliminated one stupid regulation for cherry pies, he imposed many more unwarranted, costly and anti competitive regulations during his reign at FDA from 2017-2019,
    most notably Gottlieb’s ban of hundreds of flavored nicotine vapor products (after Gottlieb, CDC, SG and others falsely claimed vaping was addicting children to nicotine), which protected sales of cigarettes, which are 100 times more harmful than vaping.

    Thanks to Gottlieb’s actions to protect children from vaping, cigarette sales and cigarette smoking among teens has began to increase this year.

    Thanks Scott.

  19. Very interesting, particularly for those of us that can remember why this particular rule came about in the first place. The answer involved two companies, Hostess and McDonalds. There was much gnashing of teeth lo those many decades ago when it was not unusual to bite into one of either of their “cherry” pies, and find cherry goop and NO cherries. A well known editorialist of the day commented, when finding a single cherry in his Hostess pie that at least it wasn’t false advertising….it wasn’t called a “cherries” pie.

    1. Then sue for false labeling. Sue for making you sad. All it takes is a little bad publicity to get corporate changes. We don’t need FDA regulation.

  20. There is an entire industry built around suing private industry for the harm they do to us, even with government regulation. We have a massive human beings problem.

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