Andrew Cuomo

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo Bans Sale of Confederate Flags, Despite Knowing This Has First Amendment Problems

"While I fully support the spirit of this legislation, certain technical changes are necessary."


New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, signed legislation on Tuesday prohibiting the sale of Confederate flags on public property, including at state and local fairs.

Cuomo was well aware that such legislation is likely to fail a First Amendment test, but this did not deter him.

"This country faces a pervasive, growing attitude of intolerance and hate—what I have referred to in the body politic as an American cancer," he wrote. "By limiting the display and sale of the confederate flag, Nazi swastika and other symbols of hatred from being displayed or sold on state property, including the state fairgrounds, this will help safeguard New Yorkers from the fear-installing effects of these abhorrent symbols."

Cuomo noted that "certain technical changes are necessary" to make sure the ban is compliant with the First Amendment, which protects free expression—including the expression of hateful ideas.

Those changes should probably involve scrapping most of the bill, which is a mess. It prohibits the sale of "symbols of hate," which it defines as "including, but not limited, to symbols of white supremacy, neo-Nazi ideology, or the battle flag of the Confederacy." Keep in mind that we live in a world where some people think the OK hand gesture is a white supremacist signal, and the New York Human Rights Commission has been particularly inclined to over-interpret the government's mandate to ban things. This is not a recipe for restraint.

The bill also exempts museums, books, and "educational purposes" in general, which provides wild interpretive leeway. And the aforementioned fairgrounds provision applies to private actors on public property, which is almost certainly unconstitutional. In 2008, the Supreme Court ruled 8–1 that a notorious hate group, the Westboro Baptist Church, could stand on public property and shout obscenities near the funerals of military service members. There's little question that the First Amendment broadly protects hateful speech on public property.

These very obvious issues—of which Cuomo, by his own admission, is quite aware—should probably have stopped the governor from signing the bill, but alas. Here's hoping President-elect Joe Biden does not reward Cuomo's abysmal track record on individual liberties with the U.S. attorney general job.

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    3. ‘Republican party bans votes of opposition party members, despite knowing this has constitutional problems’.

      Wonder if a lot of the people who would’ve been enslaved under that treasonous flag thinks moves like this are ‘virtue signaling’.

      1. Hey everything is fine, so long as you get to pick and choose [and ban] what you find offensive. Right?

      2. Wonder if a lot of the people who would’ve been enslaved under that treasonous flag thinks moves like this are ‘virtue signaling’.

        In all likelihood, they’re dead. The people who currently live under flags that condone slavery probably don’t give a shit.

      3. Hard to find those people now.

      4. Of course it’s “virtue signaling”; so is flying the Traitor’s flag. Just different virtues.
        Cuomo’s move is blatantly unconstitutional; the First Amendment protects it, and there are probably scads of court cases saying so.

        But the 14th Amendment does have a fun section that says that anybody (who was once sworn to uphold the US) and then either fought in the recent rebellion or insurrection or gives aid and comfort to those who did is permanently banned from holding any US office at Federal or State levels.
        If Cuomo (or Pelosi and Schumer) wanted to ban anyone who flies a Confederate flag or supports preserving display of Confederate statues from holding any US office? That can be done Constitutionally. (Too bad they didn’t add that to Trump’s impeachment, but there are probably two pro-Confederate-monuments Senators on record, and we could really stand to get rid of two Republican Senators right now…)

  2. I joke that tolerance means not tolerating intolerance. Talk about Poe’s law.

    1. This is what actual virtue signalling looks like.

      Pointless, confrontational actions that are unlikely to have any actual affect, other than signalling to your voters that you are aligned culturally.

      1. And his supporters wear Che Guevara T-shirts. No irony there.

        1. I haven’t seen many of those around in a while, but I get your point.

          1. Cambridge, MA, library to replace racist ‘Cat in the Hat’ with inclusive ‘Che in a Beret’

            1. That doesn’t sound nearly as fun.

              1. The story line is killer.

        2. It’s been a long long time since I’ve seen someone non-ironically wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt. (I’m old, so of course I’ve seen it, but certainly since the hipsters started playing with the image it’s been almost always ironic.)

          And anybody wearing a MAGA hat or shirt or American flag is virtue-signalling.

      2. It would be nice if he signaled respect for free speech.

        1. That is not a value of the Democratic Party. Free speech means icky people can speak.

          1. How can you not favor commonsense restrictions?

            1. “How can you not favor commonsense restrictions?”

              Eh, because it violates the constitution for starters.

    2. It is actually a brilliant play, who in this day and age is going to take it to court? In days past it would have been the ACLU but they have been taken over by the National Socialist…eh I mean Democrat Party. No one is going to risk getting canceled to have it overturned.

      1. No there will be lawyers lining up to sue because it will mean a big money payout. Frankly even the ACLU is likely to sue because it would mean lots of money. The pathetic part is that the idiot governor knows it is unconstitutional and yet is still going to do it… if that is the precedent set by democrats then why should Trump step aside for Bidden? If the Dems are going to ignore the Constitution then so should everyone else. Hell have Trump take a machine gun to the Supreme Court and eliminate the worthless justices that didn’t help him, who’s going to do anything about it?

      2. Any DA in the state should have jurisdiction to bring a criminal charge of misconduct in public office. This is a blatant violation of his oath of office.

    3. Time was, liberals talked the exact opposite game, defending Nazi speech against concervative middle-aged WWII generations, who fought Nazis and wanted to ban them.

      I wonder if they really cared about speech, or just wanted to stick it to simpleton Americans.

      I’d like to see liberals defending upending a Muslim symbol in urine, the way the did a cross in the 1990s, and government paying for it through the NEA, saying, “It is good to pay for art to shake up Americans about their religion. This is a good thing.”

      1. An artist friend of mine has actually seen the cross in urine, and in context it’s a really powerful statement about The Incarnation, along with related pieces using blood, and lots of really interesting stained-glass color effects. (She’s a long-lapsed ex-Catholic, but found it religiously meaningful anyway.)

        Doing that with a Muslim symbol wouldn’t be making a similar artistic or religious statement; it would be an insult (which I’m sure you intended.)

        And yes, the ACLU defending the right of Nazis to march in (heavily Jewish) Skokie, and defending the rights of Nazis and KKK to do and say, is very definitely intended to defend everybody’s freedom of speech, not to stick it to people; that’s a Trumpist value.

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      1. And ban 155 year old flags.

    2. Evidently the curriculum doesn’t cover English grammar.

  4. Isn’t this just a continuation of the Cuomo approach to governance?

    The man should be recalled, and then prosecuted for killing elderly nursing home patients with his incompetent governance.

    1. “killing elderly nursing home patients”

      Nope. Literally every coronavirus death in New York — indeed, in the entire country — is Drumpf’s fault.


      1. What about all the coronavirus deaths in Europe?

        You might be an idiot. Almost certainly. Certainly.

        1. If Trump had resigned when given the numerous opportunities, none of this would have happened.

          1. Haha.

            If only the Republicans heard testimony on his impeachment, 300,00 Americans wouldn’t be dead today!

          2. There it is. The dumbest comment on the internet

        2. OBL is not an idiot. That’s a parody account. Just not a very good one. In fact, often a really bad one. Okay, he’s an idiot – but for different reasons than you think.

        3. I still don’t know why every US state, Canadien province, and country in Europe listened to Trump, when every expert was screaming not to.

          God damn, Trump had way more power than I realized.

      2. Ignorance runs deep in you. The Constitution gives the federal gov’t zero responsibility/authority to deal with any pandemic. Period.

        1. “provide for the general welfare”?

      3. #CuomoForSurgeonGeneral

        1. Wait, I though Dr Jill Biden was up for that slot?

    2. The Democrat Party is the Party of slavery, KKK, and segregation.

      Democrats are trying to project that others are the racists when members of the Democrat Party are some of the most racist people in the World today.

      1. And the Republicans are the party of the military occupation of the Southern states. Let us know when you decide to join the 21st century.

        1. Idiots are still pushing the Southern Strategy lie huh? The one that would require ignoring the fact that the South held for 30 years for Democrats until generational changes switched it in the 90s?

          Look Chipper, I’m not saying you’re stupid. Well mostly because it is obvious to everyone.

          1. 1964 – parts of the Deep South + AZ voted Goldwater.
            1968 – parts of the Deep South voted for George Wallace, rest of the South voted for Nixon
            1972 – Nixon again, without Wallace. (Ok, almost nobody voted McGovern.)
            1976 – Carter got Georgia and a few neighboring southern states, rest went Ford
            1980 – Carter got Georgia, rest of the south went Reagan
            1984 – I felt stopping Reagan and the wars he and Bush would be starting was important enough I had to vote for Walter Mondale, and a dozen or so other Americans agreed with me.
            1988 – Bush.
            1992 – Mostly Bush, but GA and MS and of course AR voted Clinton.
            So yeah, what were you saying about the Southern Strategy?
            And in the 1991 Louisiana “Vote For The Crook” election, the crook was a Dem, the KKK wizard was a Republican, and he’s stayed one since then.

        2. Based on what the 21st century looks like so far, don’t hold your breath.

    3. New York: feminists march on Broadway, demand the street be given new, non-misogynistic name

      1. Narrowway.

      2. Whoa. Wait till they hear about Lake Titicaca! They’ll be lobbying for a declaration of war. At least, those of them who understand geography anyway.

  5. Good for Cuomo, refusing to let that mentally unstable woman bring him down with obviously phony harassment allegations.

    I should also point out that banning the Confederate flag is perfectly constitutional under the vision articulated by Reason contributor Noah Berlatsky in his excellent piece Is the First Amendment too broad? The case for regulating hate speech in America.


    1. From your link:

      “a 2011 review in the American Journal of Hypertension which showed that while direct evidence linking interpersonal racism to high blood pressure is weak , there is more evidence to support the connection between the cardiovascular impacts of systemic racism in the form of incarceration and housing discrimination.”

      So, since you can’t do it with individuals, let’s go back to group identities.

      1. Holy crap! I thought we would have to worry, at some point in the next 50 years, of thugs trying to overturn the First Amendment by claiming mean words changed brain neurons, and that was physical damage and (100,000 words later, ala Sartre) thererore nobody may be permitted to say anything except what the Communist Party permits.

        And that brain mapping has a long way to go.

        Mapping heart disease and high blood pressure due to stress is freakin’ brilliant! Maybe toss in cancer from stress-induces smoking due to meanies.

        “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can be used to force govement to silence my opponents because I act theatrically hurt.”

        1. At least the right-wingers pretend that they’re enforcing social norms or social order or whatever when they’re blatantly violating the First Amendment.

    2. I’m flagging you for hate speech.

    3. Would anyone be surprised if Springtime With Andy In Albany were to appear in a Hugo Boss-designed SS-style uniform with a swastika arm band, jackboots, leather cross-straps, and skull’n’crossbones paraphernalia?

      One of these days these authoritarian anti-human fascists operating with unchecked power are going to have to rehabilitate Hitler’s image.

      1. Don’t liken Cuomo to a Nazi! Nazis decided Jews were becoming problematic for the larger society, and shut down their places of worship!

        1. You said Nazi. I compared him to a jackbooted dictator. Even AMLO, the president of Mexico, sees lock-downs for what they are: “…..fashionable among authorities…who want to show they are heavy handed, dictatorship…”

  6. It’s cute that you think an ‘abysmal track record on individual liberties’ would be a disqualifier to serving in the Joke Biden administration.

    1. If anything that gets your resume to the top of the pile.

    2. “Disqualifier?” It is rather a qualification.

    3. Joke Biden

  7. Here’s hoping Biteme doesn’t do some political patronage? NOW you’re worried about it?

    I sincerely hope some real patriots put thousands of confederate flags all over NY state just as a fuck you to mafia Don Cuomo.

  8. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat

    It’s New York, who the hell would buy one there anyways??? If you really want one so bad drive down to Mississippi and pick one up from a KKK rally.

    1. Feel free to name the last KKK rally.

      1. There was one in DC last weekend.

        1. Were you there with your tiki torch, or do you just get their members newsletter?

        2. I don’t view ALL BLM activists who want to cause problems as Klanspeople. A lot are though.

        3. You know that it loses power when everyone you don’t like is labeled a racist, right?

          1. At this point being wrongfully labeled a racist is a badge of honor. It means I’m pissing off the right people.

          2. Attacking not one, but two historically black churches in a single evening is just a coincidence?

            Sorry, not buying it.

            1. I forgot that “Taking political signs” is now attacking while burning down buildings is “mostly peaceful protesting”

              1. I wasn’t aware there was a distinction in the NAP.

                Still, the pattern of not one, but two black churches vandalized, signs burned (“reminiscent of cross burnings” – one of the churches’ pastors) is a bad look, to say the least.

                It was also reminiscent of Trump and Barr having the pastors of the Lafayette Square church attacked with chemical weapons and violently driven from their own church. for a photo op with an upside down bible.

                Pure. Class.

                Not much respect for religion after all. Not when the wrong people practice it.

                If it wasn’t for false equivalency, straw men, and red herrings, what would you even have to respond with?

                1. “I wasn’t aware there was a distinction in the NAP.”

                  Miss 2020 here?

                  “Still, the pattern of not one, but two black churches vandalized, signs burned (“reminiscent of cross burnings” – one of the churches’ pastors) is a bad look, to say the least.”

                  Why should some churches be treated differently than others?

                  “If it wasn’t for false equivalency, straw men, and red herrings, what would you even have to respond with?”

                  What did your mirror tell you when asked?

                  1. Attacking black churches exclusively. No “white” churches were attacked. So they were treated differently, fucking scum.

                    1. You’re a joke.

                    2. Pretty damning, since there are exactly as many black churches as white churches in DC. So, like, what ARE the odds? You fuckwit.

                    3. What white churches were in the area?

                      Were they to go elsewhere and look for white churches with BLM propaganda on them?

                      Or should they have just burned them down…you know, like BLM protesters did?

                2. Haha! Chemical weapons! Tear gas, used on American college students for decades, has morphed into a chemical weapon. It’s not mustard gas or chlorine. It’s used for crowd dispersal; it stings a bit and it’s a lachrimator (hence, tear gas). If you haven’t experienced it, you haven’t lived.

                  1. It is a chemical weapon, and I used that term specifically because the pedants in your cult love to take issue with the term “tear gas” as being exclusively CS gas, when they contend that “only” pepper and CN irritants were used against the priests.

                    1. Fuck you. By your “logic” a rock is a nuclear weapon, because it’s got ATOMS IN IT!! OOOGA-BOOGA!!

                      Pretty scary. In actual fact (you can turn off your brain about here), the “tear gas” used by police for crowd control is a quarter strength of what’s used in many countries, including your beloved Venezuela. Of course, in Venezuela they only use it on CIA plants and fascists. Of course.

            2. They didn’t attack churches. This is as bad a lie as your claims to have been in the military.

              1. They did, and I did serve.

                We can settle this, Jesse the coward. Just let me know when you’ve grown a pair.

                Bitch ass loser.

                1. Lol. Stolen Valor is now lying about being tough. Fucking hilarious.

                  1. That wasn’t what I was talking about, but I am pretty sure I’d pick you apart.

                    I am talking about your repeated refusal to take up my wager, like a man with some shred of honor.

                    Instead you continue to slander, apparently having never been taught shame.


                    1. You’re not a veteran. You’re Pedo Jeffy/Cytotoxic. You’re not going to kick anyone’s ass. Case closed.

          3. >>it loses power

            Many white BLM activists are self-acknowledged racists. Strangely, the term retains stigma even as the meaning shifts toward anyone-who-rejects-wokeism.

    2. “Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
      Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.” – Proverbs 26:4-5

    3. Confederates in NY? Sure. (Leave aside the people for whom the Rebel Flag is an icon of being young and drunk and having a fast or at least loud car, rather than specifically about supporting slavery.)
      Less common in NYC, but there a

      1. Sorry, that escaped while I was editing it. The sentence that got chopped off was saying that it’s less common in NYC, but there are a lot of rednecks upstate, some of whom display racism that way, and some of the Trump voters even downstate are pro-Confederate.

        Here’s another news article from pre-2020.

        As far as the KKK goes, I ran into them at anti-tax rally events in NJ in the early 90s, when we were doing Libertarian propaganda booths there. One pair of them walked up to us, one guy thought he liked some of what we stood for (because we didn’t like the governor and taxes and neither did he), while his buddy disagreed, saying that if we had our way there’d be drug users and homersexuals walkin’ around on the streets.

        The KKK does occasionally try to do public marches here in California, such as the one in Simi Valley a few years back, but AFAICT they mainly want to announce an event and have the city ban them so they can sue for having their rights violated.

  9. Methinks Cuomo is worried his political aspirations may be blunted if he doesn’t appear to be adequately “woke.”

      1. Now do the Stars and Bars!

        1. ====;===========;()
          # # # #: : : : ::
          # # # #: : : : ::
          # # # #: : : : ::
          # # # #: : : : ::
          # # # # # # #
          # # # # # # #
          # # # # # # #
          # # # # # # #
          # # # # # # #
          # # # # # # #

    1. What does Hinduism have to do with this?

      1. They don’t eat cows. Isn’t that enough?

        1. It’s more than that. Hindus don’t eat cows. Hitler didn’t eat cows. (OK, he did, but don’t confuse me with facts. In popular myth he didn’t.) Therefore Hindus are LITERALLY HITLER. The swastikas just go to prove it. (And the opposite orientation is because they’re on the other side of the world, obviously!)

          1. I thought swastikas were only oriented left south of the equator. You learn something every day.

    2. I don’t like what you are saying, and if I thought you were being honest instead of critical of the bill, I’d have a few choice words to say to you.

      But I’ll defend to the death your right to say them.

  10. “This country faces a pervasive, growing attitude of intolerance and hate”.

    No it doesn’t. There is some around but it’s neither pervasive or growing.

    The place where that is closest to true is among the woke practitioners of CRT, but I’m not sure it’s so much growing as just getting louder.

    1. the intolerance and hate he references is his parties own intolerance and hate for anyone not on party D

    2. Intolerance is pervasive on the left, and to a lesser extent on the right. Think: cancel culture, deplatforming, censorship by private entities, refusal to run legit news stories or host adversary representatives (e.g. conservatives on MSNBC). Even the inability to have civil conversations about controversial issues is increasing, much to the harm to our society.

  11. Thank you for confirming to me that libertarians are indeed racist, anti-semitic bigots.

    1. Meant for the Nazi lover Speedy Lee. I can’t believe I just saw that on the internet

      1. If I posted that symbol on would you conclude that progressives are racist, anti-semitic bigots?

        1. We can conclude that without you having to do anything.

          1. There needs to be a higher standard for such slanderous name calling. one symbol or party affiliation doesn’t cut it.

        2. They do that with their actions and behavior

    2. As with the stars and bars, a swastika is usually a symbol used to show rebelliousness or disagreement by people who aren’t clever enough to articulate their ideas. It’s like a SJW calling someone racist or homophobe or bigot or misogynist.

    3. “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.” – Psalm 119:165

      1. Point of order, that’s not what it says. The original text is ואין למו מכשול, “and they have nothing to stumble over”.

    4. You’re an idiot.

  12. So does this ban include lynard skinner albums? And does it ban all sales of racist merchandise like BLM flags, and Che guvara t-shirts?

    1. Don’t be silly.

      In other news, a friend of my wife’s (who I’ve never met or spoken with outside of that one thread) apologized for blowing up at me a decade ago in a Facebook thread because I said that Ché was nothing but commie garbage who was a murderer. She’s Argentinian and saw him as a folk hero.

      Until she watched Cuba Libre which lays out his crimes for all to see.

      So she recalled this argument from 10 years ago, and went out of her way to offer me an apology. I thought that was a noble gesture.

      1. Wow. She’ll never get into the woke inner sanctum now! Woke means never having to say you’re sorry.

        Or wrong.

    2. Since they’ll probably defer to such paragons of objectivity as the SPLC and the ADL for their definitions of ‘hate symbols’, pretty sure we can count on idiocy, pandering, stupidity and being played for lulz by 4chan. Wait till they discover the pussy hat is a symbol for the Rapist/Incel Syndicate!

  13. What a way to boost sales.

    Brilliant, absolutely brilliant!

    I wonder what his kickback will be?

  14. I sort of hope Cuomo is the Biden’s attorney general. He’ll tie himself up in lawsuits and get put down by the Supreme Court so much that Biden will fire him, and all he’ll have left will be running for NY Senator, where he’d jsut be one of 50 yappers even if he wins.

    1. Agree alphabet. And here’s hoping for 4 years of gridlock and a totally ineffective administration.

      1. Such faith in the system, it’s like 2020 never happened

    2. 100 yappers.

  15. This man wants to be the Attorney General?!

    He’d make Janet Reno look like a right-wing libertarian.

    1. They have exactly equal sex appeal.

      1. low bar = low bar, can’t get any lower.

      2. The image of the two of them going at it would be the most powerful form of birth control ever conceived.

        1. Well thanks for putting that into my head Mike.

          Thanks a fucking lot.

        2. *fishes through cabinet under sink for mental bleach and SOS pads* Ah, there they are *scrubs brain of all disturbing images* That’s better.

        3. Would Cuomo be wearing his barbell nipple rings?

          He’s such a guido piece of shit.

  16. “Fear installing effects”? What the fuck does that mean? Yeah, I get that the purple-haired ninnies who vote for you are terrified of the least little things includes bits of colored cloth. If they have any fear “installed” in them it was installed by you.

    1. Beat me to it, and much more eloquently.

    2. “Fear installing effects”? What the fuck does that mean?

      It means that Cuomo has a below average IQ and read/writes at a fourth grade level.

  17. “this will help safeguard New Yorkers from the fear-installing effects of these abhorrent symbols”

    Ha, can we all stop pretending that New Yorkers are tough now.

    1. Few people are bigger pussies than people living in NYC.

      1. Bound to be exceptions, and I try not to generalize too much, but there’s certainly a lot of anecdotal evidence to that point.

        Cuomo is really doing his level best to piss all over the NYC expectations Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles set for me as a child.

        1. It seems to me that Cuomo and his sidekick DeBlasio are doing their damnedest to push the tough New Yorkers out.

        2. A lot has changed in 35 years. The old New York stereotypes mostly moved out to the suburbs or Florida and have since died.

          Related, London’s not exactly filled with cockney gangsters anymore either.

      2. What about Brits?

        1. Nor stiff upper lip paragons of the sort that got through the V2 bombings not so many years ago.

          (typoed “VW bombings”. Like we need to give Merkel any ideas…)

  18. The bill also exempts museums, books, and “educational purposes”

    Erase history so that no one understands when you repeat history.
    Better to know your enemy than to force them underground.

    1. Also better to have your enemies out in the open so everyone can see how evil they are by their own words and actions.

      The worst thing with affirmative action is driving the bigots underground. I’d much rather let them post “No Italians or dogs” in their store windows so people know to avoid them.

      1. Excellent point. And this is yet another reason to reject cancel culture, cersorship, deplatforming, etc. Their words won’t hurt you ro anyone, but driven into the shadows they might lash out. See McVeigh, Timothy.

      2. It’s even worse for employment non-discrimination. Not only do non-discrimination laws result in people working for intolerant jerks, when those intolerant jerks want to get rid of you, they fabricate some other reason. And realistically, most people can’t even sue because they’ll never get another job.

    2. What about Dukes of Hazzard reruns?

      1. ET got walkie talkies.

      2. I remember in one of the very first episodes of that show, one of the Dukes’ friends was a black guy. The show wasn’t racist in any way, and is evidence that for many Southerners, the flag is about regional pride. The only ones filled with hate are the ones banning symbols they don’t like.

  19. Anyone who thinks the Confederate flag is a “hate symbol” has never picked up a history book before.

    1. Hammer and Sickle are totes cool to Lefties though.

      Nevermind that this flag symbol was present during millions of murderers in Eastern Europe.

      1. Oh yeah? Well….TIMOTHY McVEIGH REEEEEE!!

    2. Does the New York Times count as a history book?

      1. To the Chicago Public Schools is certainly seems to be.

      2. No. I’ve never known someone to wrap garbage in history books.

    3. Right. It’s a symbol for traitorous losers.

      1. Like most any symbol, it can have vastly different meaning to many different people. I think most all of us can agree that the government has no business arbitrating those meanings and legislating thusly.

        1. It is the symbol of a traitorous movement that tried to form a country based on the chattel slavery of black people. People can tell themselves whatever they want, but that is its origin.

          And yes, the government can not tell people what flags they can buy.

          1. That’s fine. That’s your take on it, and it’s no skin off my ass. I’m a Kansan; we had our civil war before the rest of the country and then entered the union a free-state.

            You’ll notice, this entire conversation thread is about staking out sides on a culture issue. The matter of freedom of speech is relegated to an afterthought. Does that not concern you?

            1. Yes, John el gato and many of his fellow travelers are primarily concerned with culture war bs. Blame Limbaugh et al. Or blame Maddow. Doesn’t matter really.

              I already addressed the first amendment issue without mentioning the flag way up-thread.

              1. My point is not about the culture war. It’s about historical accuracy.

                1. Mine would be about acting in good faith, as when I am suddenly told making the “OK” hand gesture (as done for 60 years) or the “3 point basket” gesture, are suddenly hate speech, based on idiots at the ADL being trolled by 4chan.

                  Nothing dumb as that could ever happen, except it already did, with RL consequences for innocent citizens.

                  1. “with RL consequences for innocent citizens.”

                    Like those kids in the army that were smeared for playing the “circle game”…what every teenage boy has played for decades. Just sad how these people operate.

          2. You are being very simplistic in your characterization, which is common among people who never read anything about the civil war.

          3. And is how is the flag of one slave holding country that rebelled from the federal union any different than an earlier slave holding country that rebelled from the the British crown? Should the Stars and Stripes flag that Betsy Ross sewed, with 13 stars in a circle be banned by New York? (It’s already being canceled as an alt-right symbol, but New York is actually one of the 13 stars.)

      2. Traitorous? Who? If you can’t give specific convictions or court cases then you proved my point…you never picked up a history book.

        1. What is your level of education, Mr. Dr. History Professor?

          1. Stolen Valor is asking for credentials while providing none? Lol.

            1. I’ve offered many, many times, coward.

              Just like your cult daddy, you don’t put your money where your mouth is.

              1. Since you’re a known liar, and sock puppet, you cannot be trusted. So you are deemed without credentials of any kind. Although, given your origins, I would find it believable that you have a superfluous degree from some low level Toronto school.

          2. Ahh, you can’t answer the question so you pull out the ad hominem. That’s how all liberals debate.

            And for the record, my honorific title is “Master of the Universe.”

  20. One way around this new law, and to ensure that it gets to court really quick: Get one’s hands on some swastikas and sell them as fund-raisers for whoever runs against Cuomo. Just make sure to sell them as Buddhist or Navajo cultural symbols.

    1. Sell some historic 45th Infantry Division memorabilia.

      1. Paint them rainbow colors.

        Cannot penalize Gay Nazis…

        1. And, yes, I’m quite aware that an awful large percentage of Nazis were gay.

          1. “Awful”?!? You call that “awful”? You mean “fabulous” don’t you? Homophobe!

            1. DAMMIT~!

            2. +1, rainbow swastika-level comment

          2. As was the founder of the SA, until that long knives deal.

          3. And thank goodness for that. They might have won the war if not for Hitler’s brain disintegrating from the syphilis he caught from Ernst Röhm.


        2. Combine them with the 42nd Infantry Division?

  21. The legislature wrote the bill, Cuomo didn’t. From the headline I assumed he was just wielding executive power and issuing a mandate. I mean, it doesn’t get him off the hook, but you really should blame the legislature for writing shitty bills. You can’t just blame all the anti-liberty things happening in New York on one man.

    1. Really? He is the face I see trumpeting the legislation and gaining everything he thinks he can from it.

    2. He had the choice of vetoing it, chose not to. He had the choice of a scathing indictment of the bill, chose instead to embrace it. He wants the glory and the credit, he deserves the blame and the shame.

    3. “You can’t just blame all the anti-liberty things happening in New York on one man.”

      But one must assume he has the power, if not the will, to veto unconstitutional bills. So, yeah, in this case, he is to blame for the law’s existence, if not for the attitudes of the idiot legislators who signed on to it.

      1. But one must assume he has the power, if not the will, to veto unconstitutional bills

        Here is the oath of office in New York

        I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States, and the constitution of the State of New York, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of ……, according to the best of my ability

        So he actually has a Constitutionally-mandated duty to veto unconstitutional bills.

        1. Good thing for Cuomo the Constitution is very malleable in the eyes of leftists.

          If it says something you don’t like, well it was written by old white racists and doesn’t apply in 2020 so you can just ignore it. You can also use “But COVID!” as an excuse to do whatever you feel like at the moment.

          If it doesn’t say something you wish it said, well that’s because the old white racists who wrote it were trying to enslave everyone so your duty is just interpret it in the most woke way possible without actually putting any effort into amending it.

        2. I assumed his oath would include something of that nature. Thanks for confirming.

          1. No one else noting the easy out clause “…to the best of your ability”??

      2. Obviously he should veto it. But saying it’s his fault for not vetoing it is letting the legislature off the hook, isn’t it? It’s a shitty bill, and the blame tree goes a lot further down than the man who failed to stop it. Someone else got this ball rolling.

        1. One of the original thoughts behind the definitions of President and Legislature was that the Presidential was supposed to wield a dispassionate veto as a backstop to weak-willed legislators, in stopping unconstitutional bills.

          1. And one of the President’s primary jobs is in fact to “protect the constitution”. Legislators are supposed to answer to their retarded constituencies.

            1. I just dislike the focus on singular men, as if they’re the cause of the problem. “If only we had the right man in charge,” etc etc. The problem isn’t that there’s a governor letting the legislature run wild, the problem is that there’s voters who elected Cuomo and those same voters voted for the people writing bills in the legislature.

              That’s not to say Cuomo isn’t a tyrant in his own right (we’ve seen that several times over in the past nine months), but he’s not exactly throwing his weight around here. Declining to veto is a passive failure, compared to the active failure of the actual legislators and the voters. This isn’t Cuomo being shitty, it’s New York being shitty.

              1. Point taken; the denizens of NYC and such environs may well deserve the government they continue to vote for, but pity the rest of the State; and now he may well be going national as will more of this type of legislation. If the Bill of Rights does not protect us from such tyranny, we may all soon have the choice of becoming law breakers or relinquishing our liberties.

              2. This isn’t Cuomo being shitty, it’s New York being shitty.

                BOTH. Always.

  22. Next thing you know, Cuomo will try to ban people from voting Republican. And he’ll think it is perfectly reasonable…

    1. People who vote Republican are “literally” Hitler, or so I’m told.

  23. It should surprise nobody that Cuomo wants to ban the confederate flag. Given his totalitarianism and blatant anti-semitism, he prefers a flag of a darker color.

  24. Cuomo understands that anyone who sues on free speech grounds can be attacked as a supporter of the Confederate flag. The opportunity to make that attack (and to grandstand) is a political win for him.

    And then, once the ban is entrenched because nobody could take the PR hit required to fight it, it can be used as precedent to ban other things.

    1. Honestly interested to see if the ACLU will touch this one. See if they have any shred of principle left.

      1. They have expressly said they do not and, no, they will not do a damned thing.

      2. They now call this free speech absolutism, and it is not popular among that crowd. Protection from being offended has surpassed any such right to express oneself.

      3. The ACLU’s occasional support of fascists in the past was a political strategy, a means of achieving their actual objective, which was to make socialism and communism acceptable in US society.

        1. As long as somebody is filling their coffers.
          I suspect they were inspired by the SPLC grift, combined with the “they’re stupid but they mean well” pass given the ADL.

        2. I wrote the ACLU off when they tried to force a 12 year-old kid to return to the Soviet Union just because his idiot loser parents wanted to bail.


  25. The Constitution is not an anti-signaling pact.

  26. Trumpism is the biggest threat to civil rights in America.

    1. That is a pretty big blanket statement. Please explain exactly why? Though not a Trump supporter, I do find him slightly better than Biden on Policy. So please explain how people who do support Trump are such a big threat to civil rights? The are certainly not talking about re-education camps like Bernie Sanders supporters were. They are not talking about making Obama’s supporters pay for enabling him like the Democrats are about those who supported Trump. I find those statement huge threats to civil rights. I mean everyone in American is free to support the party and candidate of their choice without government retribution. I am always glad we have two parties, as I can think of no one party utopia. I await your explanation.

      1. Welcome to Hit & Run (I know, no longer called that, but us long timers still like to call it that)

        Don’t get me killed, new guy.

        1. Hardly a new guy I have been on Reason for years. I just don’t post a lot on Reason anymore. I has deteriorated. I am libertarian (but not a Libertarian), and all I see here anymore is frustrated conservatives and liberal trolls. It really reduces the commentary to mostly insults. Yet I expect people to back up what they say at least with opinion, if not some facts. I do appreciate your answer. At least I see you are not a radical troll. As for Trump, if you look at policy he ran a pretty standard Republican agenda. Trump is not the devil incarnate as the Democrats think, or the savior of the USA and the Republicans think. As for Trumpism, it is a natural response to the radical left, like “the squad” who think Pelosi and Schumer are to conservative to lead the Democratic party. That should scare the hell out of most Democrats, other than die hard socialists.

      2. Sorry, I’m not trying to be mean and purposefully evasive.

        It was a statement rooted in sarcasm with layers of meaning behind it.

        The Democrats have gone from something I just used to laugh at to something that genuinely scares the shit out of me… at all levels. I live directly under their policies which I’m watching fail spectacularly in real time. Trump despite his obvious flaws was the only candidate willing to stand up to them directly, without peppering his opposition to their ideas with “to be sures”.

        1. “all I see here anymore is frustrated conservatives and liberal trolls. It really reduces the commentary to mostly insults’
          I should have added taunts and insults. Also Reason not being able to be objective about Trump but suffering from TDS. The other thing that drives me nuts on this site is Reason’s refusal to deal with spam. That is what originally drove me off this site. You get 4 or 5 legitimate comments for every spam post. I guess Reason must be monetizing the spam somehow. I agree with you I miss the days of twenty actual sane comments over the 200 – 300 comments of hate and spam of today. Some of these people must not have lives, they have to spend the whole day on Reason.

    2. Trumpism is the biggest threat to civil rights in America.

      “Civil rights” are racist and authoritarian policies pushed by progressives. So, yes, you’re absolutely right: Trumpism is a threat to racist and authoritarian policies.

    3. I thought the biggest threat to civil rights in America was state governors crushing small businesses and imprisoning healthy people in their homes in response to a somewhat dangerous virus.

  27. For the record, I don’t support the spirit of the legislation…

    1. Hopefully “new guy” has gotten the message by now; if not, any further effort to explain will be fruitless, and your talents best spent elsewhere.

      1. Hardly a new guy. I was here when twenty posts by libertarians arguing over what it meant to be a libertarian meant was a lot of posts. Where you?

    2. We’ll take your declaration for all it’s worth: nothing.

  28. Am surprised Cuomo and the NY legislature haven’t yet banned the sale and wearing of MAGA hats.

    Cuomo would justify such action as an effort to protect Trump supporters from being attacked (by all the left wing thugs who support Cuomo).

    1. Rather than punish the violent attackers? Sounds like Cuomo “logic” to me.

    2. Common sense legislation is ever I heard it.


  29. I’m old enough to remember when liberals staunchly defended free speech- including the rights of Nazis to march.
    How times have changed…

    1. That version of the ACLU would be labeled a white supremacist hate group in 2020.

    2. Back then they were worried the government might restrict their speech. Now they don’t have to worry.

  30. I am an Independent, I have in the past voted for both Democrats and Republicans. That said, Cuomo is a Liberal Democrats, they are not your grand father’s Democrat and do not care about the US Constitution, America, or the American people; this is shown by their actions.

    1. Progress! It is The Great Awokening! Can let some document drafted by literal slave owners stop that!

    2. That said, Cuomo is a Liberal Democrats

      There is nothing “liberal” about Cuomo or other Democrats. Democrats are a mix between a corrupt party machine, eugenics-era progressives, and proto-fascist authoritarians.

      1. Absolutely!!!!

  31. Prison terms for elected officials who knowingly violate the constitution.

  32. “This country faces a pervasive, growing attitude of intolerance and hate—what I have referred to in the body politic as an American cancer,” [Cuomo] wrote.

    Yes, and fascists like you are responsible for that.

  33. How about the idiots,the state legislature, who enacted the legislation. As for Cuomo, the mere bagatelle of civil or constitutional rights matters not at all.

  34. This corrupt, traitorous son-of-a-bitch should be removed from office NOW!!!!

  35. “Cuomo noted that “certain technical changes are necessary” to make sure the ban is compliant with the First Amendment”

    So he believes it violates the First Amendment, yet he signed it anyway?

    If he thinks a bill is unconstitutional he should veto it.

    (Just to get my “bots sides” bona fides in order, I believe the second President Bush signed the “campaign finance reform bill” even though he believed there were First Amendment problems.)

  36. Cuomo is butt ugly.

  37. The same Dems that cry about Trump ruining our Democracy, are in fact doing things like this which are against our constitution. The are the ones with the double standards that are ruining our Republic. Notice I did not say Democracy.

  38. Another outstanding example of virtue signalling politicians trolling the jackasses.

  39. The black market has more power than the whims of any politician.

  40. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo Bans Sale of Confederate Flags, Despite Knowing This is Completely Unconstitutional.

  41. I suppose it’s not as flagrant as Lincoln unconstitutionally banning the actual Confederacy. But still a bad move.

  42. How many people shop for a Confederate Flag at a State Fair in New York? I happen to not like the Confederate Flag but some collect flags like some collect stamps.

    I do not think it is illegal to hate. Some people hate spinach. It is illegal to direct your hate to someone. And then it becomes a question of whether the hate is related to a group or an individual.

    Many hate the New York Yankees but that is not a crime.

    One has to be very careful with this sort of legislation.

    1. most yanks aren’t going to fly the confederate flag.

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  46. Great because all of that hateful rioting and looting was done by those confederate flag waving folks! Phew thank God Cuomo you got it!

    1. Really is Antifa flying that flag these days?

  47. If someone wants to fly the losers flag so what. It is part of history, a part that was defeated. Good to remember it.

  48. “Public property” is precisely where free speech is unequivocally sacrosanct.
    On top of that fatal flaw, as in will be ruled unconstitutional with 100% certainty, this is a solution looking for a problem.
    There is no pervasive problem to be solved.

  49. Sounds like Mr. Cuomo is the hater here.

  50. Now there’s no way the coronavirus will secede.

  51. Do the BLM flag next. 😉

  52. Scarlet Macaw is at the top of the list of the ten most beautiful birds according to its distinct color combination on the body. Belonging to the category of parrots, the bird lives mainly in the moist evergreen forests of South America. Little birds appear to have been observed in the provinces other than the Coiba Islands.

    The Scarlet Macaw is a large, uniquely colored body with a combination of red, yellow, and blue. Besides, it is considered the smartest bird around the world, which can make sounds like real people. Finally, a bird can travel an average of about 90 cm in length at speeds above 35 mph. Another interesting fact is that the life expectancy of a bird is an impressive figure of 75 per year.
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  53. I’ve always regarded the Confederate Flag being flown in the North as a childish rebellious act carried out by a dumbass.

    But just to piss off Cuomo’s constant sanctimonious bs, as well as his offensive disregard for the Constitution I kind of want to buy one, wrap myself in it and run around the (cancelled by Cuomo) fairgrounds.

  54. Cuomo was sworn in and swore to uphold the Constitution just like I did when I joined Army aviation & risked my life defending our values.

    Either Cuomo sits down and actually READS THE US CONSTITUTION, or he needs to withdraw from politics.

  55. Cuomo is a great man he should be preserved. He has done everything that is in his control.

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