Election 2020

Trump Lost in Part Because 2016 Third-Party Voters Heavily Preferred Biden

Trump rallied his base, but could not convince Libertarians and Greens to come his way

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As ballot counting in most states winds to a close (except in laggardly Alaska, Illinois, New York, Maryland, and a few others), a striking pattern has already emerged: President Donald Trump, in state after state, received virtually the same percentage of the vote as he did in 2016.

In swing state Arizona, where demographics are changing and Republicans are losing their grip on statewide politics, the incumbent stands at 49.0 percent of the vote, compared to his 2016 total of…48.1. In battleground Michigan, after four years of intense campaigning, Trump's 2016 result of 47.5 percent was fed feet-first into the woodchipper of 2020 and came out the other end as…47.9. By late Tuesday night, the expressed preference for Trump in more than half the country had changed in four years by less than a single percentage point.

What did change were two overlapping and interrelated sets of numbers. The share of third-party/independent presidential voters plummeted by nearly four percentage points since 2016, from 5.7 to 1.8, while Joe Biden exceeded Hillary Clinton's haul nationally by 2.6 percentage points and climbing steadily, as the populous blue states continue to pad his lead.

So while Michigan, for example, was delivering essentially the same results for Trump as four years ago, the Great Lakes State was subtracting 3.6 percentage points from third-party candidates, and adding 3.2 to Biden (that's a 90 percent "Excess Vote" rating, for those who enjoy made-up stats). Arizona has a similar story: down a combined 4.6 for the marginal names, up 4.3 for the Democrat; 92 percent E.V. All over the country, the president was able to bring out more of his voters, but with only a handful of exceptions was unable to expand on his core share of support by persuading fence-sitters to choose the Republican side.

Pre-election polls predicted this—2016 third-party voters, and specifically Libertarians (who made up 57 percent of the third-party electorate that year), repeatedly said that a majority of them were going straight, and preferred Biden to Trump by more than two to one. There were 7.8 million third-party voters last time, and just 2.7 million this time, so any strong lean by the remaining 5 million-plus was always going to dwarf whatever impact partisans may attribute to "spoilers."

Some Republicans have been mad online that Libertarian presidential candidate Jo Jorgensen's vote totals exceeded Biden's margin over Trump in Arizona (by 1.12 percentage points), Georgia (by 0.95), Wisconsin (0.54), and Pennsylvania (0.47). But those numbers pale in comparison to the products of this formula: Biden's percentage point gains over Clinton, minus Trump 2020's gains over Trump 2016, minus the drop in the third-party vote.

The president-elect trounced Trump in that category by 3.93 percentage points so far in Arizona, 2.35 in Georgia (actually more, but I'll explain in a moment), 1.40 in Pennsylvania, and 1.39 in Wisconsin. Third-party voters in 2016 had more impact on the two-party race in 2020 than any third-party voters in 2020 ever could.

The Georgia count is interesting on two fronts. One, it's a reminder that these aren't simplistically reassigned votes from 2016; every electorate is different, and there were certainly many voters who went straight from Republican to Democrat without making a pit stop in LibertarianGreenConstitutionKanyeLand. So in fact Biden in the Peach State is up 3.88 percentage points over Hillary Clinton, and Trump is down 1.54 from last time, the latter a pretty unusual occurrence outside of the northeast. Since the third-party decline in Georgia was just 2.35 points, I awarded only that amount of excess to Biden, but there are definitely some other significant factors affecting and accelerating that change.

Georgia is also one of the handful of states whose 2016 third-party electorate was overwhelmingly (about 85 percent) Libertarian. A very curious thing happened in such jurisdictions: Compared to the rest of the country, their decline this year in third-party voting was lower, and their Excess Vote for Biden was higher.

In Oklahoma, for example, all 5.75 percent of third-party voters in 2016 went for Gary Johnson. In 2020, the state's third-party decline of 59 percent, down to 2.33 percentage points, was actually one of the lowest in the union (the national average being closer to 68 percent). Still, Trump got almost no measurable bump from third-partiers coming back in from the cold, finishing at 65.37 percent of the vote, compared to 65.32 in 2016. Similar stories can be told in Indiana and South Dakota.

What's the analytical upshot, even with the caveat that we're still blindly groping the elephant of this election? One is that voters for the Libertarian Party (L.P.) have greater propensity at this moment to stick: The L.P. lost 64 percent of its voting share from 2016, compared to 73 percent for the Constitution Party and 78 percent for the Green Party.

The other is that, at least in the unusual third-party spike year of 2016, people who formerly voted for Libertarians (which, it's always important to remember, outnumbered actual members of the party four years ago by around 5 to 1), are not just Republicans who got high for an election only to sober up next time. They're more loyal to the quixotic dream than voters of other small parties, and they have demonstrated zero propensity to prefer the GOP. At least in this election, with this president.

To the extent that ex-Libertarian voters pulled the lever this time for Biden, it wasn't because of his proposals on spending, taxes, regulation, Section 230, the Supreme Court, or a hundred other things. If there is any libertarian case for Biden, it's situational, and that situation ends on January 20. All foolish talk of a "mandate" should include a clause about how the former vice president probably couldn't have gotten over the hump without Gary Johnson's voters. Good luck keeping those types in the coalition.

Every minute of every day is filled with people—including not a small number who describe themselves as at least somewhat "libertarian"—telling you that it's A Time for Choosing, time to put on your big boy pants, time to declare your unwavering opposition to Party X or Party Y. Don't you recognize authoritarianism and/or statism when you see it?

One of the enduring if low-key quirks of this election is that there appears to be a cat-herd of at least 1 percent of the population who appear unswayed by such appeals, with an extra 2 percent who don't exhibit reliably pigeonholeable behavior. That, by definition, will be frustrating to most people passionate about politics. But from my admittedly marginal perspective, if the two major parties are going to rebuke most libertarian ideas, better to have the swing vote wearing a capital-L on its sweater.

NEXT: New Blows to Trump Campaign Election Fraud Theories

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  1. Americans could bask in the knowledge that President Donald Trump was likely on his way out without yet confronting the reality that former Vice President Joe Biden was on his way in. But with the election called on Saturday for Biden and his running mate, Sen. Kamala Harris D–Calif…………VISIT HERE FOR FULL DETAIL.

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  2. An increase in federal spending from $4 trillion to over $7 trillion chased most independents away from the Con Man.

    1. Legislation from Congress dumbass

      1. Where was the legislation from Congress authorizing Dear Leader to divert Congressionally-allocated funds for military-bases refurbishments, to, instead, build Der TrumpfenFuhrer’s “Big, Beautiful Walls”? Are the Mexicans going to back-pay the USA for that? Didn’t Dear Leader PROMISE us that the Mexicans patsies would pay for it?

        1. Someone pointed out that flagging spaz here makes the threads much more intelligent. Try it; it’s true!

          1. Good idea, I am gonna start flagging your repetitive hate-filled nonsense. Let’s all flag each other and turn this into an echo chamber for all!

            1. You just called for flagging people two days ago, you enormous fucking hypocrite.
              Don’t act like you’re not the lead cheerleader for censorious bullshit.

              1. Yeah, for a specific reason – Tulpa posting the same comment over and over in a thread. That’s spamming the board.

          2. In other words, you can’t refute what he said.

            Trumpkins are still defending their Fuhrer even after he lost. LMAO. The debate is over. America has fired Trump for his failures.

            1. He has the same zero electoral votes your owner Biden has. You’re just too stupid to understand that.

              1. If you want to be technical about it, go right ahead. But this is the dumbest argument yet.

                Trump will not be president come January 20.

            2. “The debate is over.”

              Oh how naive, little Vance hasn’t been involved in American politics for very long. The debate is never over. If you could stop eating Biden’s ass for five seconds, you might learn that.

      2. https://theweek.com/articles/949070/trump-demonic-force-american-politics

        Trump is a demonic force in American politics

        SQRLSY comment: Trump loves His Own Ego FAR more than democracy and the USA tradition of peaceful transitions of power! A good read above! Worth your time to read!

        1. SQRLSY comment:

          SQRLSY One
          November.9.2020 at 4:26 pm

          Bimsday, 39 Bemberbember 2020 at 6:66 PM
          I love to LIE my ass off, and suck Satan’s dick! Because I hate humanity! The Evil One is the Father of Lies, just as Der TrumpfenFuhrer is the Stable Genius! So, as the apple falls not far from the tree, I INSIST on telling obvious lies, all day, every day! Butt… Surprise, surprise! Other Evil Ones Junior will fall for my lies… Because they want to!

          1. You deleted the lead-in that clearly indicates that I was speaking for you, in your voice! You really ARE an evil liar! Do you not know that as you sew, so will you reap? WHO do you think you’re fooling, anyway? ONLY your fellow evil idiots, who WANT to be fooled!

            1. Yeah, sure thing, you were speaking for “me”…
              Well then, who’s speaking here Sqrls?

              “SQRLSY One
              September.30.2020 at 12:53 pm

              Yes! This FURTHER proves that Hitler was NOT a racist!
              Since even Hitler wasn’t a racist, we can pretty firmly conclude that racism isn’t a “thing” at all!

              “SQRLSY One
              November.1.2020 at 8:51 am

              Here, this is a pretty good match! Every asshole is a good, right, and TRUE, benevolent asshole!
              https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/hitler
              “My spirit will rise from the grave and the world will see I was right.”
              ― Adolf Hitler

              1. I’ve repeatedly refuted your stupid lies, Evil One Junior!

                Read and heed!

                M. Scott Peck, The People of the Lie, https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848597/reasonmagazinea-20/

                Till you actually give up a WEE tad of Your Over-Inflated Self, and ADMIT that You are NOT perfect, there is NO hope for you! Better get started soon!

                1. Didn’t M. Scott Peck, come here once and tell you to fuck off?

                2. I did.

                  Hey, fuck off, Sqrlsy!

                3. He forgot the quote where he admitted he ate shit.

            2. “as you sew, so will you reap”

              Exactly. You don’t get that you ass eaters just “implicitly” legalized voter fraud. Just wait until next election when Republicans will expect their side to cheat just as much as you bitches (because now the precedent has been set).

          2. Mother’s Lament, grow up, you infantile Trump dick sucking piece of shit. Trump lost. Get over it, cunt. We’re taking back America.

            1. With a mouth like that, I can see why you spend so much time eating Biden’s ass.

      3. Which Trump signed, moron.

    2. Yeah, that makes sense. Concern over increased federal spending caused people to vote for Biden. You are so dumb it hurts.

      1. A D president with at least one R body of congress to thwart him has consistently led to decreased deficits

        1. A D House has a stronger correlation to higher deficits.

          1. The deficits under Obama decreased when the Rs took the house.

            1. Yet still averaged roughly $1.15t/year over BO’s 8 year reign

              1. And what were they under Trump, dipshit?

                1. Budgets ordinate in the House. Paul Ryan submitted something shitty budgets, no question. He was a bad Speaker. Now that we have that out of the way, tell me about Pelosi’s fiscal responsibility. Be sure to mention her proposals for emergency spending this year.

      2. Are you sure it wasn’t because Trump’s an asshole?

        1. Agreed.

          The trying to figure out why Trump lost, and pinning it on something other than Trump is Trump and people are tired of his shit is retarded.

          Trump lost because he’s a colossal asshat, not because people started thinking about the fucking budget.

    3. to the guy who wants to spend 9 trillion?

  3. Pennsylvania judges were also kind enough to Vice President Biden’s campaign to keep the Green Party off the ballot. Pandemic concessions can only extend so far.

    1. Oh no not election law shenanigans!

  4. So libertarians and third parties went strong for Biden. And if they capture the Senate, the amount of shit that will be done by democrats will not be undone by writing about it here.

    1. Far too many libertarians are socialists.

      1. Would you rather die on your feet or live on your knees?

        1. And you choose to die on your knees.

          Good call

          1. And your hero lost to senile old man.

            1. No election results yet.

    2. I think that’s actually backwards. What happened in 2016 is that a lot of Democrats found the Democratic nominee so revolting that they cast a protest vote for third party candidates.

      But they were never Libertarians to begin with, at most more Libertarian than Green leaning Democrats.

      Biden wasn’t as revolting as Hillary, so they went home.

      1. That’s probably mostly it.

        However, at least some of it was 2012 Republicans going Gary Johnson in 2016 as an intermediate step to becoming Democrat in 2020. It was too scary for them to do it in one step.

        We also need to take into account that for people who don’t have strong political beliefs but just wanted a credible experienced person who was not an asshole, Gary Johnson fit the bill way better than Jo Jorgensen. He was an ex-governor who got somewhat respectful attention from the media. If we had run Justin Amash I believe he would have outpolled Johnson, maybe even into double digits.

  5. Trump rallied his base, but could not convince Libertarians and Greens to come his way

    The takeaway being that Greens and Libertarians are ideologically more closely related to each other and to Democrats than they are to Republicans.

    Tell us something we don’t know.

    1. don’t you dare compare the libertarian party to the green party. Green party has principles, is better organized and doesn’t actively try to appeal to anyone but it’s base.

    2. A lot of Libertarian voters in 2016 were just looking for an option other than Douche and Turd

      In 2020, with Douche still on the ballot they decided to vote for Turd 2.0

      1. Yep, TDS was rampant.
        And in some cases, seemingly incurable.

        1. TDS won, bitch.

      2. That’s basically it. I’m not naming names, but quite a lot of libertarians whose names you know voted against Trump. I know one anarchist, whose name you might know, who voted for the first time just to vote against Trump.

        I DID NOT. I voted for JoJo!

        I’m still trying to process their thinking, but it goes like this “Fascism is not better than socialism, both are equally bad, but neither of these candidates is fascist or socialist, those are just words to rile up emotions. The problem we’re facing is that one Team Lead is so much worse than the other Team Lead that he needs to go. If that bad Team Lead actually had an ideology we could talk about it, but he’s Team Contrary and he is actively damaging the playing field.”

        Or put another way, “We survived eight years of Obama, we can survive four year of Biden. But now way in hell can we survive another four years of Trump.”

        Or put yet another way, “We’ll get fucked either way, but at least Biden will provide a reach around.”

        Again, I DO NOT HOLD WITH THIS VIEW! So stop with your fucking pitchforks. I’m just trying to explain way many libertarians are playing this duopoly game this one time. I think they’re wrong, but there is some rational basis in TDS.

        1. But can we survive 4 months of Biden and 3 and two-thirds years of Harris?

          1. We survived Obama, and according to the comment section he was the most evil man to have ever lived.

            Remember, every election we teeter on the edge of total destruction. But the total destruction never happens. So call me skeptical. I think we can survive it. We survived Jimmy, we survived Billy, we survived Barry, and I do think we can survive two years of Kammy until the Rethuglicans retake the house and institute gridlock.

          2. They’ll carry Biden for at least 2 years.

        2. Same here, Brandybuck. I voted for Jo, but if I didn’t have a third party choice, I would have either stayed home (most likely), or voted for whoever was running against Trump. Narcissists are fucking dangerous, man. They will protect their ego against everything else.

          1. Lol, you did not vote for Jojo, Chipper. You’re not fooling anyone.

            We all know you voted straight (D) all the way down… and if your vote was anything like the other (D) votes, you did it several times.

            1. I voted for Jojo because there was no way I could pull the lever for Trump because of cocksuckers like you that went hard after anybody who didn’t carry water for Trump. Congratulations asshole, you are the reason Trump lost. Suck it.

              1. Bullshit.

                Full (D), down the ballot.

            2. I voted for Biden. Lol.

      3. The Libertarians voted Biden/Harris for criminal justice reform!

        wait, no. that’s not it.

        Libertarians voted Biden/Harris for fiscal restraint!

        no..

        2A?

        1A?

        4A?

        5A?

        Dammit. There must be something.

        oh yeah.

        ORANGE MAN BAD.

        1. It’s not Libertarians voting Democratic this year. It’s Democrats voting Libertarian 4 years ago.

          Hillary was just so awful that a lot of Democrats couldn’t stomach voting for her.

        2. How about trade policy, dumb fuck?

        3. Ending the trans military ban. Restoring the Iran deal. Ending wasteful spending on the wall and the Space FARCE. No more forced hysterectomies or separating families at the border. Idiot.

          1. Yes, you are an idiot. One who lies and talks nonsense.

        4. Orange man VERY bad and heading to prison shortly. Swamp drained by America.

          1. You should harm yourself.

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  7. The bigger-government ratchet clicks again and Reason staff smile broadly. Good job Suderman!

    1. Ever notice that when the smoke clears, it always turns out that libertarian polices and preferences produce exactly the opposite results of the things they claim they want?

      Funny how that works, isn’t it?

      1. Please don’t mix up the LP or their publications with libertarians.

      2. Your list of examples is very convincing

        1. The preference of Biden at Reason will result in more war, trillions of dollars to corporations and non-profits for clean energy grift, trillions of dollars spent on other peoples healthcare, and the destruction of third world countries ability to produce energy in any sort of free market way

          1. Remind me again of all the wars that Trump got us out of? Oh wait, he literally apologized to the Democrats for suggesting we get out of Syria. Right.

            1. Yeah, that peace deal he signed with the Taliban that ended the war in February totally doesn’t count, and ignore his Afghanistan draw down going on despite the fact that the Democrats in the House Armed Services Committee actually made it fucking illegal for Trump to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan and Germany.

              Oh wait…

          2. We can start by cutting all those subsidies to oil.

            1. Sure.
              Now list them.

  8. “Trump Lost in Part Because 2016 Third-Party Voters Heavily Preferred Biden”

    Actually, Trump lost in part because Koch financed anti-Trump Reason staff urged libertarians in swing states to vote for Biden or Jorgensen (who beat Biden’s margin in PA, WI, GA & AZ), and because Democrats successfully sued in swing states (including PA & WI) to keep the Green Party candidate off all ballots.

    1. There are also many unanswered questions (that Reason has refused to investigate or write about) about the voting irregularities in many states, including:
      – Democrat counties in six states (where Trump had been winning) stopping the vote count on election night,
      – the 138,000 votes for Biden (and none for Trump) in MI at 4AM,
      – tens of thousands of extra votes for Biden in WI overnight,
      – hundreds of thousands of new votes for Biden approved after/while Democrat election officials in Philly prevented Republican poll watchers from watching the vote count.

      1. Nope. The 138k dump was a clerical error. Debunked fake news, idiot.

        1. I’m surprised we had any problems at all…given that we used a mail in election method banned by most of the developed world because of a history of massive voter fraud. France and Corsica 1975 bitch. That’s just one example!

    2. Also, no Green Party candidate was on Arizona’s ballot this year.

      1. Was the Green party’s ballot exclusion significant?
        https://spectator.us/green-party-ballot-exclusion-significant/

        “If Stein’s 2016 vote totals were subtracted from Biden’s in 2020, his current leads in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania would evaporate”

        1. That is an enormous assumption! Are there any states for which the Gs were on the ballot in both elections that they performed equally in 2020 to 2016?

  9. “Pre-election polls predicted this—2016 third-party voters, and specifically Libertarians (who made up 57 percent of the third-party electorate that year)”

    So basically all people who voted libertarian in 2016 are counted as libertarians ?
    That real libertarians made u0-p a full 60% of those voting for 3rd parties in 2016 is not believable – much less that they would vote for Biden regardless of what they thought of Trump.,

    1. Exactly, a lot of 2016 L voters just wanted someone other than Trump or Clinton. Biden was exactly that

      1. That’s it. In 2016 Trump got the protest votes from general dissidents. In 2020, how could you protest by voting for the incumbent? So they voted for somebody who seems to have actually lost his mind — a plus for dissident voters.

        And this needs to be recognized too: that votes for LP nominees come primarily not from ideologically libertarian voters, but from general dissidents.

        1. This could be seen in 1992, when Libertarians and other 3rd-party candidates rode Perot’s coat-tails nationwide. I did a regression analysis in NY in particular, showing the vote for Norma Segal for US senate could be accounted for in almost all of the state as a fixed percentage of the Perot vote. (Syracuse was the outlier.) But the effect was seen nationwide, and mostly benefited LP candidates, because LP was the best organized and most established small party on the ballot on average nationally, though it buoyed others too. The effect disappeared in 1996 with Perot’s nomination by the Reform Party, because then it meant there was a Reform slate instead of just Perot and nobody down-ballot on his line as in 1992. I think the effect was mostly one of bringing out people who in most elections don’t vote at all.

        2. But this also drives home the point that most voters for candidates aren’t motivated by ideology, nor even by single policy issues. We keep looking at the connection between where candidates stand on policy and their voters, but really the policy connection to candidates is made by just a few elites in party leadership and vested interests.

          Which in turn means that, in the USA at least (and probably a good number of other countries with similar political organization), it’s a fool’s errand to try to organize a political party or identifiable faction from the grass roots by an orientation around anything less apparent than skin color or ethnicity. You might be able to do it with a few concentrated business interests. So, gun makers but not shooters. Grass roots politics exists, but is moved by friends-of-friends and people-like-us phenomena, not ideology.

          1. Politics in a democracy is no different than the game that religions have played for millennia. If you want people to join you and give you money, you just have to tell them they are better than those who don’t.

            To avoid that game was the purpose of founding a republic. It seems to have failed.

        3. Biden lost his mind. Trump never had one to begin with.

  10. How did the green party in wisconson vote? Ohhh yeah they went for Biden because their candidate was removed from the ballot

    1. Cry more, bitch.

  11. If you voted for Biden/Harris, you’re no libertarian.

    1. it’s like a “devout Catholic” voting for abortion while holding their rosary beads.

      1. Exactly what Biden openly claims to be.

    2. apparently we’re not libertarians if we voted for the Libertarian either, according to Reason commenters

      1. Libertarianism is a personal and political philosophy, not some idiot political party in America.

        1. If you voted for Trump, you’re not a libertarian.

          1. Why? Because he sends out mean tweets? Did he make you cry like a bitch when he hurt your little feelings?

      2. I have said so myself.

        Why, are you gullible enough to think that because a party calls itself “X-ian Party” it actually promotes X?

    3. If you voted for Trump, you’re no libertarian.

  12. Overall these results look great for the Libertarian Party. In addition to the greater retention that Welch cites, amid the tendency for voters to revert back to the old parties after an election during which third parties played a major role, this election clearly demonstrates the long-term impact of a strong candidate like Gary Johnson. Seeing how the Ls nominated an unknown candidate for the first time since 2004 and she performed far better is very encouraging. When the party returns to someone with name recognition and political experience, like Justin Amash in 2024, they are fully prepared to ascend toward mainstream acceptance as a party.

    1. Shit, I just heard an Angel’s Choir!

    2. Just as spoiler Jorgensen appears to have helped Biden win the key swing states of PA, WI, GA and AZ, any future vote increases by Libertarian Party Presidential candidates will just help unlibertarian Democrats win in the future.

      The Libertarian Party has now become the Democrat’s bitch (as the Ls help Ds get elected, and get nothing in return).

      1. yeah…. insult us….. that should work.

        you have to do more than tell us how bad Biden is…. we know….. you have to run a candidate and push policies that are not as bad or worse in different ways.

        1. Why should we bother? Would make more sense to get you disqualified off of the ballot too.

          1. explain to me how you guys are different than the left again…… you think kicking us off the ballot is going to get us to vote for you? do you really just like losing to democrats that much?

            1. If the Right did that, then perhaps several Reason writers would support them over the Left.

              Otherwise, it is just FUN to fuck over the LP.

        2. The libertarian party has manipulated you into being a socialist and you’re too stupid to realize it. (notice how you dipshits always keep voting for the socialist candidate?)

    3. i think Amash can do very well for us. I am glad he held off on jumping in last minute this year…. it would have created too much internal drama, and the realities of this year always made victory less likely than even usual.

      1. I am too, joining so late did not look very good. And the practical obstacles unique to this election would have made it a waste, like a baseball team sending in their best pitcher while they are losing by ten runs.

        I do believe he is the best man for the job. No person in this country has the same combination of political experience and awareness of libertarian values.

        1. Both of you are leftists trying to disguise yourself as libertarians to trick people into thinking you offer a legitimately sympathetic perspective.
          You have no balls nor integrity.

          1. says the lemming who worships blindly….

            1. Then you’d be incorrect and unable to back up your assertion

          2. What if I told you that libertarianism is a leftist ideology.

            1. You’d be lying.

              Progressivism and leftism are authoritarian and dogmatic, libertarianism is not.
              Just because libertarians are generally okay with the way that sex and drugs works for the American upper-middle class elite, doesn’t mean that it comes from the same place.

              1. “Right” and “left” are obsolete terms from the nineteenth century, anyone who applies them to modern politics is either uneducated or dishonest.

                Leaving that aside, seeing that the term “right” was given to those who were conservative monarchists (authoritarian collectivists) and “left” was given to those who were liberal republicans (libertarian individualists), it should be pretty clear which of the two labels modern libertarianism best fits if you insist on using these terms anachronistically.

                1. I don’t recall insisting on that… and the terms “right” and “left” date from the 1700’s, not the nineteenth century.

                  It’s fun to prevaricate, but it’s pretty obvious I was utilizing post-war contemporary terminology, and not that of the Assemblée nationale.
                  It may have been hard to notice but I didn’t actually say gauche et droite.

                  1. If you can articulate a coherent definition for “right” and “left” for the twenty-first century I would be willing to agree with you. Its not a statement against you though, I’ve never heard one.

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                    2. Sure, actually that Wikipedia link had a good one:
                      “The left seeks social justice through redistributive social and economic policies, while the Right defends private property and free markets.”

                    3. That definition is far from coherent. Maybe it is time to modernize your vocabulary and stop trying to sort individual preferences into monolithic blocs.

          3. Prove it, bitch.

    4. The base LP presidential vote is about 0.5%. Another 2.5% were convinced to vote for Johnson because he was a two-term governor with a good record (really the best of the 3 candidates). It’s amazing the LP topped 1% with an unknown college prof at the top of the ticket.

  13. A Biden/Harris administration would herald a return to the blood-drenched warmongering coalition of the neo-con/neo-progressive interventionists, which had the flow of its universe briefly ruffled by the Trump administration.

    It also would bring a ramped-up surveillance and control deep state, which during the Obama/Biden administration was controlled by the likes of literal Stalinist, CIA torture-master John Brennan.

    The street and campus level rape-and-violence culture enforcement gangs will be sponsored by such an adminstration. “Reducation” programs for political dissenters and “confinement centers” will be pushed by administration supporters.

    Seventy million people voted for this. Neo-cons are rejoicing. Sanders groupies are whooping.

    1. Again with this bullshit that Trump somehow took on the military-industrial complex? Why don’t you check to see how much he increased military spending, how many weapons he sold to the Saudis and provided assistance to help them slaughter people in Yemen, how many drone strikes he authorized compared to Obama, and how many troops he kept in Afghanistan.

  14. cue the orange worshipers missing the message here….. (you can’t sell us a sack of shit by telling us how bad the other guy smells.)

    count me in the cat herd.

    1. The level of COPE in these threads is really getting quite unrealistic, all mostly from accounts I’ve never seen before.

      1. And n00b takes the mask off to suck leftist dick.

        1. Sorry your authoritarian strongman lost to the other authoritarian strongman. I heard he was involved in some scandals and has a history of mistreating women so maybe that’s why, or maybe it’s because he was in the white house during the biggest increase in federal debt ever up until that point and was looking to spend even more after the election. Wait, which party are you with again?

          1. I reluctantly vote Republican.
            I used to vote libertarian when I had the chance, and prior to Trump had only ever voted L for Prez.

            Psychologically and intellectually immature twits like you have convinced me over the last 3 years of coming to Reason to never again vote for the Libertarian Party at any level.
            Your ideology appears to be little more than an outlet for your emotional problems.

            1. Psychologically and intellectually immature twits like you
              outlet for your emotional problems.

              Oops, all out of argument. Time to resort to name calling.

              1. Who the fuck is making an argument?
                I’m just telling you where I’m coming from and the conclusions I’ve reached.
                Keep growing the brand though!

  15. It will be a relief to see Trump leave, at least for people like me who feel he’s a toxic con artist who never should have been leading the country. But the conditions of his defeat are not exactly inspiring. Yes it’s the end of an error, a critical righting of a historic wrong, buoyed by gratifyingly strong turnout. But 72 million voters were fine with continuing it. Trump got a quarter-million more votes statewide in Washington than any GOP presidential candidate ever has. Even in deep blue King County, 50,000 more voters said “yeah, sure, put us down for four more years of that.”

    They just don’t get it. They just… don’t get it.

    1. I suspect a good chunk of those who either sat out 2016 or voted third party swung for Trump in 2020. I’m one of those.

      1. I haven’t voted since I voted for George W. Bush in 2000–because I wanted to repudiate Clinton’s disgusting corruption and because Bush had some really good ideas about replacing welfare with private charity.

        Boy was that a mistake!

        I voted for Trump.

        I thought he was a joke in 2016. He won me over with his record–despite being wrong on trade and immigration.

        I don’t know if I’ll vote Republican again next time. I expect the next Republican nominee to be either Cruz, Haley, or Pence. It may be that Trump’s demonstrated competence in avoiding wars and strengthening American security anyway have swayed more Republicans to reject neoconservatism and foreign adventures. I certainly hope so. My resistance to voting for a neocon will probably be tested by my desire to repudiate whatever socialism the Biden administration puts in place. Even if it’s Harris at the top of the ticket in 2024, if she’s a continuation of Medicare for All, the Green New Deal, etc., I’ll vote for a Republican who promises to undo all of that, but we’ll probably never see a Republican as libertarian as Trump was ever again.

        We’ll never see a libertarian Democrat. Socialism is fundametnally incompatible with libertarianism.

        1. Jefferson was a libertarian Democrat. But that was a long time ago.

          1. Jefferson is pre-Democratic Party. Jackson was the first Democrat.

        2. “we’ll probably never see a Republican as libertarian as Trump was ever again.”

          Perhaps Trump will run again in 2024. Even if he doesn’t run in 2024, he’ll likely heavily influence the Republican Party, future GOP candidates and future elections (particularly the 2022 midterms, when GOP is likely to gain House and Senate seats, and may take control of the House.

          1. Candidates— even well-liked Candidates go stale. When they’re out of office for 4, 8 years or more, people get the sense they should just go away. Imagine Bill Clinton trying to run again. Even Obama running again probably wouldn’t create the stupid, retarded nobel peace price getting starry-eyed response he did the first time around.

          2. If Trump is successfully ousted, we’ll never see a president opposed to the swamp again.
            Congratulations libertarians, you’re celebrating the now unassailable dominion of Top Men.

            1. Trump IS the swamp, you fucking idiot.

          3. Trump is older than he looks.

            There’s a huge difference between 78 and 82–and then you want Trump to be president until he’s 86?

          4. No, the same thing will happen once Trump is gone that happened when Reagan left the Oval Office.

            The deep-state Republican elite will pull the party back to the left, and try to undo everything that Trump has done.

            1. America has chosen to undo Trump’s nonsense.

          5. Rand Paul is a Republican who is a billion times more libertarian than Trump. Trump is a fascist.

          6. Trump is going to prison. He isn’t running in 2024. Period.

        3. I think we’re going to see a relative unknown candidate in 2024. It’s not like Trump is a legendary philosopher who created an ideology beloved by his base; he just said what we already felt and tried to put our ideas into practice. He met a lot of resistance, so we know that the battle is uphill from here on out. We’ve also won a major ideological victory by not giving Harris/Biden a Congress that will pass their agenda. It is rather telling that Republicans haven’t lost their ability to interfere with the Presidential agenda since 2012. You would think Trump being a firebrand would do that, but look at the turnout and how many voters we won over, especially from demographics that typically don’t vote Republican. We’re breaking all the trends and the fact we picked up seats in the House is a testament to how much people hate Democrats right now.

          Trump was always transitional for me. He isn’t the right guy to reach suburban women and urbanites of all ages, but he was the right guy to get Republicans to stop being the party of weak white people who can’t even talk to these people without dropping their spaghetti all over the floor. He systematically slaughtered every Republican during the 2016 primaries and has permanently transformed the party. For me, that will always be his crowning achievement and something that made voting for him twice worth it, no matter anything else.

          I have always hated the idea of swing states. Every state and every demographic can be won. It’s just a question of whether or not you make better arguments and spend the time and attention necessary to reach people. With Trump out of the way, the MSM have put themselves in an awkward corner where they can’t attack anyone who isn’t Trump-like in demeanor. He is the new baseline and people won’t fall for the “Republicans are racist” tagline anymore. They didn’t convince anyone that Trump was, so they’ll have an even harder time with someone more soft spoken or eloquent. As Republicans continue to reach out to the rest of America more, it will become even harder to call them bigoted. The MSM shows no signs of changing their strategy, but they’re going to realize that the boy who cried wolf is no way to win an election.

          The Republican equivalent of Obama will be an electoral slaughter in 2024. We just need our next Ronald Reagan. The American people are becoming more ideologically anti-government and while that doesn’t necessarily make them Republicans or Libertarians, it does make them anti-Democrat. For libertarians here, this is the best time to influence the Republican party. Democrats have always been a lost cause. Sometimes they align with our policy objectives, but it’s never out of principle. They don’t care for limited government or stricter Constitutional adherence. Some truths are too true and too beneficial to ignore, but we can’t cross the aisle with people who are antithetical to our view of the role of government. Republicans can be won over because they’re becoming more nationalist and more diverse. Trump was a moderate Democrat and a big spender. He had more in common with Jim Webb than any Republican candidate in 2016, but he had more in common with actual party members and still does.

          Republicans should focus right now on fighting the battles they can win. For me, that means diversifying the base and pursuing strategies to increase voter turnout in 2022 and 2024, such as VBM. We can get ahead on this issue and standardize it so that it won’t have the insecurities we saw unfold recently. Increased turnout is perfect for Republicans because it means more people to win over and chip away at the Marxist base of the Democrat party. It sounds cliched, but truth is generally on our side. When we actually reach out to the rest of America and attack traditional Democrat strongholds, we can win big. We’ll have to have the so called “difficult conversations” to do this, but once we learn to navigate those subjects better, it will be easy to win people over.

          People don’t like to be dependent upon government. They don’t cheer for onerous restrictions from bureaucrats, miles away, untouchable and unaccountable. We should never forget this. As we continue to fight the culture war, remember that we’re on the defense. We already have the culture; the question is how to preserve it.

      2. You voted for the LOSER, Diane. Lol.

    2. I get the “toxic” part of that. They don’t like the things he says…but what is the “con” and how would he be able to trick people if everyone hates the things he says?

  16. Trump created a lot of baggage for himself with his crass belligerent style. There are a lot of people, myself included, who were not opposed to Trump, but was waiting for him to act like a president and show at least a tiny bit of professionalism we expect of our President. It never happened and he because the Hillary candidate of 2020. There was a fairly big anyone but Trump vote.

    1. So you’re saying, style was more important than substance?

      (btw, I thought he was the most “presidential” of any modern president. Why? Because he is a fighter and doesn’t hide his “true feelings.” Something about that comes off as more honest than typical “polished” politicians)

      1. For many yes.

        Sure Trump didn’t hide his true feeling, but politicians do this to win votes. Winning elections is a popularity contest. That’s a reality whether we like it or not.

      2. Something worthy of note. Trump is the last President since Carter to not open a new military campaign on foreign soil. The anti-war crowd should rejoice. Assuming he doesn’t do anything before he leaves office.

        1. Yes, the military has not gone anywhere new during Trump’s presidency. The anti-war crowd should not overlook that Trump increased military involvement in the countries that already had American military. They should not overlook the massive increases to the military budget under Trump or his refusal to withhold funding from Saudi Arabia when demanded by Congress. They should not overlook Trump’s antagonistic behavior to countries like Cuba, Venezuela, and Iran that pose no threat to the United States and risk an escalation of hostilities for no gain. Trump may be a step up from Bush and Clinton on foreign policy, but that’s a very low standard by which one should rejoice.

          1. “”They should not overlook the massive increases to the military budget under Trump or his refusal to withhold funding from Saudi Arabia when demanded by Congress.””

            The ones Democrats did? They are in charge of the house.

            The president is not required to do what congress demands except where the Constitution demands.

            Even Canada was selling arms to the Saudis.

            1. Did the president not apply his signature to these laws passed by Congressional Democrats?

      3. Trump has no style OR substance. The GOP has no atform under him.

      4. Trump honest? He told over 20,000 documented lies as president, moron.

    2. Billigerent style fostered by MSM and democrat hatred for him. Many call him a bully but wasn’t he just reacting defensively to the bulling. Trump was nice to anyone who worked with him. When you are attacked you have to react which Bush and McCaine and Mitt failed to do and thus they lost.

      1. Don’t blame the media for Trump’s style.

      2. Trump has been known for being an asshole way before he ran for office.

        Also, if a place has a high turnover rate, there is a management problem. This has been true of every place I worked that had a high turnover rate.

    3. He did that.
      Repeatedly.
      But it’s tough breaking free of media mind control.

    4. because = became

    5. and Trump lost some of the old people vote (the most reliable voters to turn out) by not showing enough leadership on COVID-19. He could have made a scientific case against lockdown panic and mask worshiping, instead he was all over the map.

      1. He should have just said it’s not the President’s job to save us from a pandemic.

        1. Too many people think it’s the President’s job to save us from everything.

          I find it funny that some people think Trump could have saved us from the virus when no other leader in the world could save their own countries.

          1. Is that why other countries are doing much better? Lol.

    6. Trump has been a public figure for 40 years. You’re claim is people didn’t know his personality in 2016? The Apprentice was on for SIX years! Everyone in the world knew Trump was a self aggrandizing narcissist loudmouth.

      1. Trump’s personality was a running gag in the Bloom County comic strip.

      2. YOU’RE FIRED!!!

      3. Self-aggrandizing egotistical loudmouth, yes. Narcissist, no.
        Narcissism is all about insecurity and passive aggression.
        Don’t get sucked into the left’s bullshit rhetoric – that’s one of the reasons socialism gains ground against a free market, because free market proponents allow it to be labeled capitalism.
        And Trump is a dick, not an asshole.

        1. Trump humper. Give Trump another blow job, Nardz.

  17. Biden earned exactly ZERO libertarian votes.

    Now, socialists who THINK they’re libertarian, that’s another story…

    1. I am a libertarian. I voted for Biden. Biden is no libertarian, but this election was a binary choice: socialism or fascism.

      1. This is why nobody takes libertarians seriously (and I am one). You don’t seem to know what fascism is.

        1. ^SO MUCH THIS^
          everyone on the left reflexively (reflux-ively?) spouts the fascist talking point nonsense but can never point to anything but their own fever dreams

          1. How about teargassing peaceful protesters? How about deliberately slowing down the mail so that ballots wouldn’t be received in time?

            1. how about spying on journalists…
              how about using the irs to go after your perceived enemies

              yeah… and I wouldnt have called obama a fascist either but he sure outdid trump with fascist tendencies

            2. “peaceful protesters…” …. 😉 i get ya! wink wink

              1. Esper refused to gas peaceful protesters. That’s why he was fired, moron.

  18. So, in 2016, independents could not abide with either of the Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich. In 2020, many decided to bite the sandwich.

    1. This. Probably.

      The article is based on a silly premise. That ‘third party voters’ are even a thing. They aren’t. Voter registration is overwhelmingly D, R, or independent. Or you can slice the data by extremely reliable location votes that are D or R. Nothing is third party at all. Voter turnout in each subgroup is what drives election results.

      I haven’t seen the turnout data by party registration or any other data slice. But I’m going to assume the completely reliable D and R turnout was sky-high in preparation for the last election of our lifetime. And that the D’s did a better job of it – with demographics also in their favor because those voters who die from one election to the next tend to be a bit more R than D (and not at all third party or even truly ‘independent’).

  19. This seems to comport with — Was it Justin Amash’s? — theory of voters going for “craziest son of a bitch in the room”. In 2016 for many that was Trump. In 2020, after experience show’s Trump’s governance not to be nutso, that vote would then go to the next choice, a Joe Biden who seems suspiciously like he’s demented.

    1. That was Massie’s theory I think.

    2. Trump not nutso? Okay, you’re a fucking idiot.

  20. I’d like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that Reason writers are legitimate targets of opportunity for peaceful protest/direct action.
    Have a nice day.

    1. Brownshirts are lame, guy. Don’t be lame.

    2. I disagree with someone so they deserve to be violently attacked.

      Found the leftist.

      1. Your words.
        I’m just reminding everyone that Reason supports the exact language I used, thus are legitimate targets of it.

        1. You are finally revealing yourself to be what you have always been.

  21. Everything considered, even with media relentlessly bombarding the population with anti-Trump messages for four years, Trump would have won had not Chicom-19 been unleashed on the world. Maybe it demonstrates that many of his policies resonate with a huge number of people, even with some who could not stand his persona.
    How would thosepolicies be received if coming from someone who was articulate, dignified, and self-deprecating when necessary?
    You Republicans are far from finished. Get over the lamenting, dry your tears, and get back to work. We Libertarians certainly will and maybe if you stopped treating us like “the Democrat’s bitch,”
    we could join in coalitions that moved towards liberty instead of anchor-dragging the left’s plunge over the cliff of socialism.

    1. Libertarians seem to like the socialism. I see no reason to try and work with them. Do all possible to remove them from ballots nationally.

      1. Yeah , sure, we love socialism. Yours is precisely the attitude that has kept the GOP from considering any policies that might…just might…reconcile with libertarians.

        1. But you do.

          You do.

          Maybe not the state control aspect of socialism, but all of its idealistic claptrap about a global community with free movement of people and goods working together to bring about the best in everybody. In my view, that type of socialist dogma is virtually indistinguishable from core libertarian beliefs. Except, as history has shown, opening markets worldwide trends toward authoritarianism because the gradual erasure of national borders in pursuit of economic “freedom” sets the stage for centralized control on an international level. The European Union is a perfect example. Some would call the European Union a socialist construct — but, it is just as valid to call it a libertarian construct.

        2. Yea, it couldn’t possibly be YOUR attitude that kept people away.
          Yall spent 4 years hating Trump because the “cool kids” were doing it, and ignoring that he gave you more of what you wanted than any administration since Coolidge.
          He’s the best you were ever going to do, and you rejected it.

        3. “We have a President that did more to advance the cause of deregulation than any in decades. So…let’s go for the old senile dude who has been sucking on the federal teat for nearly 50 years because the President is mean on Twitter”

          1. Yet Trump wanted to regulate social media. Lol.

      2. Many libertarians today are akin to the idealistic Marxists in Russia before and shortly after the revolution. These people aligned with the Bolsheviks because they genuinely believed the new order would:

        1. Bring an end to international borders;
        2. Unite people of all creeds, races, and nationalities;
        3. Replace artificial economic controls imposed by the royal family and their loyal oligarchs with virtuous leaders that would protect the rights of workers; and
        4. Strike the final blow against all remnants of serfdom, while opening the resources of the country to everyone rather than a select few.

        None of it worked out as intended. The erasure of international borders resulted in the complete and total subjugation of people in the Caucuses and Central Asia — people that were mostly independent under the rule of Russian Empire — on the ground that “all people should be liberated.” Religious and national identities in these regions were then brutally suppressed. The old oligarchs were slaughtered and replaced with new oligarchs. The resources of the country were captured by those with the most guns. And lastly, the idealistic Marxists were imprisoned and/or executed by the very people they supported.

        Now, I am not saying that all libertarians fall into this category, but many do, and that is why they are particularly susceptible to the virtue signaling by socialists even if they are, to varying extents, generally distrustful of government. Libertarians that believe nations and national markets are artificial constructs that can only limit the freedom of people around the world will find themselves surprised, as did the idealistic Marxists, as to how repressive “a society of the global man” can truly be.

    2. Is that why Trump never had majority approval?

  22. The election was not a choice it was a referendum and Trump lost.

    1. Seriously? Three years of a booming economy only stopped by COVID and 75 million people decided to go with a senile old man who can’t string two sentences together, has a running mate rejected by Dem primary voters and didn’t campaign at all? I really hope they did steal the election because if not my already low opinion of the average American will never recover.

      1. That is exactly why it’s a fraud. The left reamed Hillary for failing to campaign in Wisconsin alone. But Biden fails to campaign in all 50 states and somehow wins? It just doesn’t add up.

        1. It adds up because everyone knows that fraud does not exist.

      2. The senile old man thumped Trump in two debates. Give it a rest. Americans still think Biden has a lot more on the ball than Trump.

      3. Trump inherited a good economy.

    2. Poor democrats. Trump won NC, AZ, AK, and Ga today.

  23. So, what was Reason’s part in this, Matt?

    People have been accusing Reason of taking money from big spenders to change direction and go full anti-Trump since before the last big schism created the Glibertarian exodus.

    If it’s true that some big donors paid Reason to go anti-Trump, and Libertarians were the reason Trump lost, then those big donors sure got their money’s worth!

    Bloomberg reportedly spent $100 million trying to flip Florida, Ohio, and Texas.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/04/bloomberg-sees-losses-after-spending-over-100-million-in-florida-ohio-texas.html

    I bet Reason is bargain by way of comparison! How many independent hits do you get here–and how many of them are registered Libertarians?

    1. The Rs won FL big time by using anti-socialst messaging to Cubans. Who knew that people who lived under such regimes would be against them. Immigrants may be the key to staving off socialist encroachment.

      1. Bloomberg wasted his money in Ohio and Texas, too.

        1. Ohio, Texas, and Florida – Florida certainly, I’m less sure of the other two – have R governors and government that shut down the prospects for rampant fraud.
          Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, notably, have D governors who spent a great deal of state taxpayer resources to make fraud easier.

          1. Keep crying about nonexistent fraud, bitch. Your tears are delicious.

          2. Trump vs biden will be glorious.

            The SCoTUS rules against democrat election fraud and that was before democrats showed kavanaugh, barrett, alito, and gorsuch what will happen of democrats win with massive mailin ballot election fraud.

            Thomas ruled aginst democrats on 2000.

            1. Go cry more, cunt. Trump lost. Hahahahahahaha!

  24. Independents who are blue pilled are much more likely to vote.

    1. Especially when all they have to do is mail in the ballot.

  25. To be precise, POTUS Trump has not lost anything. The votes have yet to be counted, the recounts have not occurred, the litigation has not been adjudicated, and the Electoral College has not met.

    Welch is a dumbass.

    1. Welch knows what he’s doing.

      By crafting a narrative of a Biden victory now despite evidence to the contrary, they can claim foul play when congress and the courts find differently. This will legitimize another attempt to remove Trump by non-Constitutional means.

      I’ve been posting this coup-o-meter for months here already:

      Step 1: Get mail-in voting approved to guarantee a non-credible election result.
      Step 2: Have the media proclaim Biden as winner.
      Step 3: Use media brainwashing to make it “true” that Trump lost. Frame any challenges to the narrative as the raging of a dictator, clinging to power. <— You are here
      Step 4: If the courts and congress find Trump’s electoral victory is legitimate, claim that it’s not. Activate rioters.
      Step 5: Remove Trump by non-Constitutional means. Frame it as saving the nation.

      1. There is zero evidence to the contrary, cunt.

        1. the caustic nature of your responses to messages either indicate fear for your desired outcome or that you are being bothered by not having an effect on people.

          1. No. It’s payback for being ridiculed months ago for pointing out Trump isn’t a libertarian and that his trade policies are shit. He who laughs last…

    2. A consensus always emerges quickly after the winner is clear. Even FOX News isn’t peddling your bullshit.

      This is all an excuse to treat yet another Democratic president as illegitimate, because you are thralls of rightwing tinpot ratfuckery rather than intelligent, mature citizens of a modern democracy.

      You need to do what the rest of us did in November 2016 and deal with it. Biden’s gonna be president under the law no matter how much you cry about it.

      1. Where the fuck were you for the last for years, other than with your head up your ass?

        1. Sitting here watching Trump commit treason and destroy the country.

          1. So, like said, with your head up your ass.

    3. Trump has lost. Deal with it, asshole.

      1. The U.S. has lost and that’s hard to deal with. The loss came before Trump was elected.

  26. Aside from the ridiculous notion that Greens would even consider voting for a Republican, registered Libertarians are not libertarians, as evidenced by their choice to prioritize giving Jojo feel good votes over the risk of a Biden presidency.

    I’m sorry, but you can’t be a libertarian and not vote for the lesser evil. If you voted for Biden or didn’t vote for Trump, you’re suicidal, plain and simple.

    1. There’s not much evidence for libertarians voting strategically. Jorgensen’s vote percentages in swing states was similar to her percentages in non-swing states.

    2. I didn’t vote at all but my state is solid red. Only in the swing states does voting make a difference.

      1. Voting doesn’t make a difference for the EC, but your vote still adds to the popular vote. That is at least a big political talking point.

    3. Biden is the lesser evil.

    4. Proves it to me, libertarians are for big, intrusive gov.

  27. Biden got something like 2% better than the Dem ticket at the polls.

    Let’s not pretend this was anything other than ORANGE MAN BAD.

    1. Well, it could have been fraud instead of OMB

    2. pretending it’s fraud until I hear otherwise

      1. Pretending is the wrong word.
        Assuming/presuming is fair.

    3. Orange man IS bad. Duh.

  28. You might want to mention the swing states where D governments kept the Greens off the ballot.

    Also worth mentioning – did your analysis count write-ins/none of the above/”Mickey Mouse” votes? Here in MD, “other write-ins” pulled 1.2% last time.

  29. In case anyone is wondering if Reason will be denouncing AOC, CNN, etc. talking about making lists of deplorables for punishment, just a reminder:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/MattWelch/status/1102654202545913857

  30. Unreason’s manifestly bigoted and blind ignorance forgets we’ve been through this before in 2000. It took > a month for the SCOTUS to order the bogus FL ballot counting stopped to let the election be decided, but Trump has even MORE potential electoral votes at stake than Bush did. How sad that unreason joins mindless delusions laughably spouting the mathematical IMPOSSIBILITY that the Biden corpse won the election. Soon egg will be all over its sad face proving this. The main thing remaining before the Electoral College votes is to see if our legal system validates the IRREFUTABLE FACT reality that Trump won or sells us out to the evil Dem/media cabal and tries to force the bogus Biden corpse and Harris presidency on us. It will not go well for the deluded, lawless/anarchist defund police fools stupidly to imagine they can take on those responsible, law-abiding citizens who hold to the 2nd Amendment.

    1. Shooting your political opponents in service of democracy!

      1. Stop quoting AOC

        1. You are the communist you hate. You don’t actually think arcane economic philosophy matters when assholes try to grab power, do you?

  31. A competent analysis would note that Trump gained 9 million more votes in 2020 over 2016, going from 63 million to 72 million…..an almost 15% increase in turnout. This is Trump we are talking about, the supposedly most hated man in politics. That 9 million dwarfs anything the third parties bring to the table. The turnout of libertarians is utterly meaningless this cycle….Jo didnt even get 2 million. Thats a not even a blip in the creepy joe fraud bonanza

    Percentage is meaningless,

    1. And Biden increased the dem turnout by 8 million votes over Obama and 13 million over Clinton. Sleepy joe, the man who campaigned 2 hours a day and held rallies of a few dozen people in cars and read off a teleprompter.

      And you try to gaslight us into thinking that tye percentages are important. You should be ashamed.

  32. Fuck Trump for ever running for president. Rand Paul could be president now if not for Trump going down the escalator. Rand actually would have accomished something for liberty. Trump destroyed the libertarian moment and should never be forgiven. Damn right I voted for Biden. Eat shit, Trumpkins.

    1. I hope your Democrat candidate for 2024 will be able to compete with Trump’s second term popularity.

      Poor biden just lost AZ, GA, NC, and AK today.

      1. I’m enjoying your mental breakdown so much.

  33. Are the Trumptards here going to apologize for comparing Covid to “flu season”? 235,000 deaths is quite a bit for the flu, retards.

    I support a national lockdown. There is no right to infect other people from a libertarian perspective. Biden should easily fix the pandemic that Trump couldn’t. Don’t like it? Tough shit. Biden is your next president. Suck it up, bitches.

    1. “I support a national lockdown.”

      Then you stand against the constitution and open borders.

      If you “have no right” to infect me, then I might as well report you to the covid authorities any time I hear coughs in your house. And after that I’ll report any known undocumented aliens who haven’t gotten tested.

      Why do people say stupid things?

      1. Stupid analogy from a Trumpkin moron. Go cry more. The lockdown is coming, bitch.

      2. I stand against open borders? Then Trumpkins should agree with me.

        Biden won. Trump lost. Mask mandate time.

  34. Matt is really outdoing The Jacket when it comes to spewing ignorance and incomprehension onto the pages of Reason. The guy does not understand long division–let alone spoiler vote algebra. Yet insists on making even the most obvious pants-dirtying republican crybabies seem nearly rational by comparison. The lot of them need to work at real jobs for a while–as a sort of reality therapy.

  35. Poor matt welch. GOP Senators just won AK and NC. Georgia Senator predue beat ossoff over the 50% threshhold.

    Trump won Nc, AK, AZ, and GA today.

    Trump vs biden victory for Trump with WI, MI, PA, and NV is gonna be glorious.

    1. You must have injected yourself with bleach, lovedicks1789. Hahahahahahaha!

  36. So the Trump-lovers should also love Gary Johnson because he gave them Trump in 2016.

  37. I find it interesting that Democrats and the “Never Trump” crowd are whining that Donald Trump has not conceded. Today is 11/12/2020, but Gore didn’t concede to Bush until 12/13/2000.

    While I don’t expect a reversal of the overall outcome that the corporate media has projected, it’s important to remember that the corporate media does not determine who has won the election.

    Joe Biden is NOT the President Elect until after the Electoral College votes on 12/10/2020. Attempts by the corporate media to bully the citizens into submission is appalling.

    Joe Biden is only the presumptive winner based on the projections of unofficial vote tallies, but until it’s official it’s not official.

    Personally I’m glad that Trump “lost” and sad that Biden “won”. I’m not vested in either of the “out of touch” old geezers. There is plenty to dislike about both candidates.

    I’m mostly disgusted by the corporate media and their overt partisan behavior. The corporate media titans need to be effectively destroyed and their influence needs to be diminished.

    The corporate media has severely damaged their credibility. Citizens need to turn to alternate news sources (such as Reason among others) to learn the truth instead of the partisan propaganda being spun by the corporate media.

    For the last 4 years there has been a never ending onslaught by the corporate media focused on Trump and I fully expect a sycophantic corporate media holding water for Biden.

    Alternative new sources need to be inventive and chip away at the partisan corporate media titans. The need to expose the hypocrisy and the bias of the sycophantic propaganda arm of the Democratic party (commonly know as the corporate media).

    1. Every new thing is a new 5th grade civics lesson. Duh, he’s not the president until Jan. 20. Nobody was confused on this point. You’re whining that the media have treated this election the same way they treated every other election.

      If there was a bias of journalists against Trump, maybe he shouldn’t have called them the enemy of the people.

  38. Trump Lost in Part…

    What? The media doesn’t get to call elections. The election has not been called. Trump hasn’t lost. Biden hasn’t won. The lying media wants to pretend otherwise.

    1. He will, and I don’t personally give a fuck if you’re emotionally prepared for it or not.

      It’s one of the biggest defeats of an incumbent in history. The popular vote is approaching Obama real numbers and surpassed Reagan’s percentage numbers.

      While it is rare for an incumbent to be defeated, this should hardly be surprising. What should be surprising is how well Trump did. He’s going to be recorded as the worst president in history. That is already in stone. Sorry you feel the need to back such a fucked up horse, but you should simply take some personal responsibility for your terrible values and lack of education.

  39. “time to declare your unwavering opposition to Party X or Party Y. Don’t you recognize authoritarianism” — no: the country’s collective decision to pare down the list of job applicants to the two front-runners was made democratically. People were free to vote for others in the primaries, they just chose not to. What’s authoritarian about that?

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  42. Libertarian = watered down Marxist.

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