Jo Jorgensen

Jo Jorgensen Beating the Trump-Biden Spread in Texas, Ohio, Georgia, Iowa, and…Alaska?

Yet the Libertarian presidential nominee is still not being polled in one-third of the country, including states that are historically friendly to third-party candidates.

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As of 9 a.m. ET Friday morning, 93 hours before the first voting locations open on Election Day, polling for Libertarian Party (L.P.) presidential nominee Jo Jorgensen exceeded the distance between President Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden in five critical states: Texas (with its 38 electoral votes), Ohio (18), Georgia (16), Iowa (six), and, in extremely limited polling, Alaska (three).

All five states went for Trump by at least five percentage points in 2016. Texas hasn't voted for a Democrat since Jimmy Carter; Alaska hasn't since Lyndon B. Johnson.

Jorgensen was also within one percentage point of the Trump-Biden margin in hotly contested Florida (29 electoral votes), North Carolina (15), and Arizona (11); each of which, too, chose Trump four years ago. (For a breakdown of the numbers, including some for Green Party nominee Howie Hawkins, scroll to the bottom of this post.)

This news may come as a surprise to those who assumed—with plenty of reason—that the incredible shrinking third-party voter wouldn't play much if any role in the most-important-election-in-the-history-of-our-country, Flight 93 face-off between two malapropismprone major-party septuagenarians.

And yet! Four years after the razor-thin Trump-Hillary Clinton margin was exceeded in 11 states by Libertarian Gary Johnson, four states by Green Party nominee Jill Stein, and—no, really!—one state by independent Evan McMullin, one of the 2020 election's low-key puzzlers is that the presidential candidate from the only third party to be on all 51 ballots for three cycles running has not appeared in a single poll in nearly one-third of the country.

That means no Jorgensen polling in North Dakota, which went 6.2 percent for Johnson in 2016, the Libertarian's second-best showing behind his home state of New Mexico. No South Dakota, either, which at 5.6 percent was his sixth-best. (Even without third-party candidates on the ballot, the Dakotas, which Trump won by 30+ points last time around, are two of his worst five states for 2016-2020 declines, at minus 17 percentage points each.)

Trump will probably win the Dakotas, which is one of the main reasons we don't see much third-party polling there, or in deep-red or deep-blue states such as Tennessee and Rhode Island. Political competition drives interest, for better or worse, and with the hollowing out of non-national news organizations, there just aren't many volunteers for the job of public opinion research in Connecticut and Mississippi.

But this void may be somewhat warping our view of Tuesday's election. When crunching Jorgensen's numbers three weeks ago, I pointed out the absurdity of not polling nontraditional candidates in famously nonconformist Alaska, the state where the L.P. had its best showings in 1976, 1980, 1984, and 1988, and many other third-partiers have done likewise. Sure enough, the one and only poll to include the Libertarian in 2020 showed her with 8 percent (!) of the vote, compared to a six-point gap between Trump and Biden.

And as I mentioned at the beginning of the month, disincluding the marvelously named hardcore Alaskan Independence Party candidate John Wayne Howe in U.S. Senate polls in the Last Frontier was giving a distorting picture perhaps even about which major party ultimately controls the World's (Allegedly) Greatest Deliberative Body. In three surveys since, Howe has averaged a great-for-marginal-candidates 6 percent, while FiveThirtyEight's confidence in Republican incumbent Dan Sullivan's reelection prospects has declined from 84 percent to 75 percent.

This all may seem like small (if delicious!) beer, and it probably is. But not necessarily to third parties, for whom polling support is not just the usual feedback mechanism for messaging impact, but also a crucial indicator of whether a state party is poised to hit typically onerous, ever-changing voting thresholds for automatic inclusion on the next season's ballots. Are we gonna have to stand in the rain to collect signatures again next year, Ma?

Six of the top nine states in 2016 for third-party, independent, and write-in presidential candidates, ranging from Idaho's combined 13.2 percent vote haul to North Dakota's 9.8 percent, have not seen a general-election poll this year with more than two names on it. Two of the remaining three states from that group, Alaska and New Mexico, have featured just a single such survey. Will Jorgensen really get 8 percent in Alaska? Probably not, but who the hell knows? Such data has not been deemed important, regardless of the one in 10 voters who in a given place and time might disagree.

As for Jorgensen, any intensity of attention paid toward her results next week will be directly proportional to the closeness of the big-ticket race. If it all comes down to Pennsylvania next Wednesday, Thursday, or beyond, the eye of Sauron will turn on Jorgensen (polling at 2.3 percent in 18 polls there this month), Hawkins (0.0 percent in four), or even Kanye West (0.3 percent in three).

But even though the eight states where Jorgensen's totals are likeliest to exceed the Trump-Biden margin all went GOP last time, the Libertarian is less likely to face the same vitriol that greeted Green Jill Stein after 2016.

Why? Because in a world where, as former Judge Andrew Napolitano put it this week, "We have one party: the Big Government Party," with "a Democratic wing that likes war and individual welfare and borrowing and taxes and staying in power — and a Republican wing that likes war and corporate welfare and borrowing and taxes and staying in power," there is less expectation than ever that Libertarian voters are just weed-smoking Republicans who occasionally stray off the reservation.

In fact, polls have repeatedly shown that 2016 third-party voters—57 percent of whom pulled the lever for Johnson—disproportionately favor the Democrat in 2020. A Morning Consult poll Oct. 16–18 had 2016 third-partiers going 53 percent for Biden, 21 percent for Trump, 14 percent third party again, with 12 percent undecided. A New York Times/Siena College poll of six northern battleground states Oct. 12 showed 2016 Johnson voters going 38 percent Biden, 29 percent Jorgensen, and just 14 percent Trump.

Here are the states where Jorgensen's percentage point polling in October exceeds or is within striking distance of what FiveThirtyEight estimates as the current Trump-Biden gap. Please keep in mind that last-day polling support for third-party and independent candidates typically overshoot their actual results by around one-third.

1) Iowa +1.5 (Biden 47.0, Trump 46.7, Jorgensen 1.8, Hawkins 0.3)

2) Ohio +1.0 (DT 47.2, JB 46.3, JJ 2.0, HH 0.7).

3) Texas +0.7 (DT 48.2, JB 46.9, JJ 2.0, HH 0.7).

4) Alaska +0.5 (DT 50.9, JB 43.4, JJ 8.0).

5) Georgia +0.3 (JB 48.4, DT 46.8, JJ 1.9, HH 0.7).

6) North Carolina -0.4 (JB 48.9, DT 47.0, JJ 1.5, Don Blankenship 0.5, Kanye West 0.0).

7) Arizona -0.6 (JB 48.7, DT 45.6, JJ 2.5, HH 0.3, KW 0.3).

8) Florida -0.7 (JB 48.6, DT 46.6, JJ 1.3, HH 0.7).

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    1. I’m no longer ridin’ with Biden.
      I’m joking with Jo!

      1. Not humpin’ with Trump?

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    4. 1) Iowa +1.5 (Biden 47.0, Trump 46.7, Jorgensen 1.8, Hawkins 0.3)
      2) Ohio +1.0 (DT 47.2, JB 46.3, JJ 2.0, HH 0.7).
      3) Texas +0.7 (DT 48.2, JB 46.9, JJ 2.0, HH 0.7).
      4) Alaska +0.5 (DT 50.9, JB 43.4, JJ 8.0).
      5) Georgia +0.3 (JB 48.4, DT 46.8, JJ 1.9, HH 0.7).
      6) North Carolina -0.4 (JB 48.9, DT 47.0, JJ 1.5, Don Blankenship 0.5, Kanye West 0.0).
      7) Arizona -0.6 (JB 48.7, DT 45.6, JJ 2.5, HH 0.3, KW 0.3).
      8) Florida -0.7 (JB 48.6, DT 46.6, JJ 1.3, HH 0.7).

      Compare these polls to Hillary’s before the election to find where Biden *actually* stands now. Is Biden beating Hillary’s poll numbers at the same time 4 years ago?

      No?

      Gonna MAGA again.

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  1. They don’t bother polling when they know that candidate won’t win a single electoral vote. Five decades of trying though.

    1. But they ought to include candidates whose absence distorts the poll results.

      1. This assumes 2 big mistakes:
        1. They’re honest.
        2. They’re impartial to the outcome.

        Funny how, after 5 decades of having the football pulled out from under them, this year/term was all in on the Black Lives Matter/Believe All Women (who accuse Republicans)/Climate Change Is Real/The Riots Are Mostly Peaceful/Antifa Isn’t A Thing/Only Racist Statues Will Be Torn Down/… narratives.

        1. this year/term was all

          Reason was all in, that is.

          Robby is the only one who seems to have a glimmer of the thought that “If they’ll put *that* person up against a wall and shoot them, they’ll put *anyone* up against the wall and shoot them.” and even he was almost giddy to pull the trigger on Kavanaugh.

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    2. Well, the LP did in fact get a single electoral vote on their first try. So you could do a little better with your phrasing.

      1. Okay, I actually did chuckle a little at your nitpick.

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    3. Polls are not that expensive. The LP could commission them, and libertarian leaning websites like Reason could report the results, especially if they show they Jorgensen is hurting Trump.

      1. They may not be that expensive, but the only polls that get nationwide coverage are those presented by the MSM. They control most of the narrative.

        1. Welcome to life, where you really don’t get a free pass just because you’re present. There are many polls that don’t get nationwide coverage, particularly new polls. No poll is worth a damn till it at least got something right a couple of times.

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    4. Who are they to decide for us which candidates won’t win a single electoral vote? If a candidate is on enough ballots to be able to mathematically win 270 electoral votes, they should be on the polls. By excluding them from the polls, they’re controlling that prophecy and not letting the American people decide for themselves.

      1. So you and some similarly thinking people go get off your ass and make it happen. Whining about it on a website post accomplishes nothing but making you feel like a victim.

  2. Jo Jorgensen Beating the Trump-Biden Spread in Texas, Ohio, Georgia, Iowa, and…Alaska?

    You know the rule about headlines put in the form of a question. No, she is not going to beat the spread in those states. Current polling may suggest that she is, but current polling is a joke. A sad, pathetic joke.

    1. Except three third party candidates DID beat the spread in over a quarter of the states four years ago.

      1. The #LibertariansForRacistMarxism ticket is polling stronger than I expected.

      2. So? That and about $3 will get you a cup of coffee and nothing more. “Beating the spread” is just a turn of phrase that means nothing, but is remarkably like stomping your feet in Times Square and demanding that everyone pay attention because you’re taking up real estate. You’re not actually worth anything unless you can and are willing to use it to give value.

    2. It wasn’t as much a question as a statement of curiosity.

      Coupled with the fact that many Libertarian candidate supporters (the article suggests possibly 1/3 of them) end up pulling the lever for one of the two other two candidates raises some interesting possibilities. If 1/3 of the libertarian candidates in Texas choose to go for Biden once in the voting booth, the race is even closer to a toss up. I have know several Libertarians who support the Libertarian candidate throughout the campaign and then pull the lever for the lesser of two evils. It allows them to show support and to make their vote “count” when it comes down to it.

      Knowing the electoral college isn’t going away any time soon, I sincerely hope we get ranked choice voting in the near future. Though still unlikely to win, it seems like it could raise the chances for all third party candidates.

      1. “…Knowing the electoral college isn’t going away any time soon, I sincerely hope we get ranked choice voting in the near future…”

        And I hope lefty shits like you fuck off and die.

    3. Even though a 3rd party may beat the spread, it’s a statistical fallacy to believe that the spread would flip who of the top two would have actually won. 3rd party voters would have a distribution of their 2nd pick: Biden, Trump, or Nobody. My bet is that Nobody gets the majority of 3rd party voter 2nd picks.

      1. 3rd Party is part BothSides, part PartySupport.

        The BothSides Crowd’s 2nd pick is stay home.
        The Party Support Crowd’s 2nd pick is stay home.

        I expect a lot of Libertarians either defect to GOP or stayhome. While the Long March Through the Institutions may have taken over the Libertarian Party Apparatchiks, most Libertarians I’ve known are quite opposed to Racist Marxism.

  3. I prefer Libertarian Party candidates who basically endorse the Democrat, like Bill Weld in 2016.

    #LibertariansForBiden

    1. Don’t waste your vote!

    2. I see what you did there. Chuckled a bit.

  4. “As for Jorgensen, any intensity of attention paid toward her results…”

    Wait a minute, Matt…you’ve had 4 or 5 contributing authors here who recently encouraged all to avoid voting. Mango-Ward herself says you’d be better off watching the game instead! Are you suggesting that voting matters?

    You’ve got work to do internally, Matt.

    1. It never seemed to me like KMW (or any other Reason contributor) was trying to persuade people not to vote. Rather, they were stating that it can be a principled and practical position to take. If anything, I think its a contrarian push-back to all the collectivist hyperbole about an individual’s decision to vote being the most important thing in the world.

      1. So here’s my point…Matt is in essence laying out a reason why he’s interested in vote counts, since he’s interested in the polls in anticipation of actual voting. We’d all agree polls are less important than the actual votes. So voting must matter to him. Mango-Ward details in excruciating detail…year after year…all the reasons why your vote doesn’t matter. She even suggests watching the game is the better option.

        As far as others here, here was the headline here for a Harsanyi article a few years ago…” Please Don’t Vote”.

        1. Jackand Ace
          October.30.2020 at 1:47 pm
          ‘So here’s my point…Matt is in essence laying out a reason why he’s interested in vote counts, since he’s interested in the polls in anticipation of actual voting. We’d all agree polls are less important than the actual votes. So voting must matter to him. Mango-Ward details in excruciating detail…year after year…all the reasons why your vote doesn’t matter. She even suggests watching the game is the better option.”

          I’m sure your mommy said there was some point buried in there, but like the time she said you were smart, she lied.
          Not yet heard how that ‘fight climate change’ incantation can make those CS wild fires go away. Can we assume you’re a stinking pile of lefty shit who has no idea regarding what you post about?
          Or just a stinking pile of lefty shit?

      2. I think you are correct. Voting is a thing where you sort of have to believe in collective action. No single individual’s vote actually matters.

        1. The problem with pissing on this kind of collective action is that it completely ignores reality in that, to protect your rights from a bunch of other people, you need a collective group behind you.

          One man can’t beat 20.

          There’s nothing wrong with grass-roots, voluntary collectivism (which voting and parties are pretty voluntary with no individual consequences for joining or leaving or voting or not voting). Libertarian revulsion to voluntary collectives is bizarre to me.

          1. One man can’t beat 20?

            You must not have watched any Bruce Lee movies.

            1. Well, to be fair, majority of people ain’t Bruce Lee 😉

              I found this great comment on a dr. Salerno interview in ’16 that fits here:
              “Nationalism is the individual’s means to secure his freedoms.”

          2. Voluntary collectives = free association

        2. At the ballot box? Yep.

          In the jury room? One vote is as good as three whole branches of government. Libertarians should spend more time on jury duty.

      3. Other than showing everyone that people are disenfranchised by the duopoly, not voting doesn’t really prevent any candidate from winning as they aren’t counted in the ratios towards plurality.

  5. Poor Matt and the hacks at unreason.

    Trump’s reelection will hit them hard.

    1. unreason has Kamala Rouge/Sleepy Joe ahead of Donald Trump in Georgia…

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

        1. 2016 United States presidential election in Texas

          Trump won Texas by almost 800,000 votes in 2016.

          unreason and the liars in the MSM have to provide supported evidence why an even more popular Trump would lose to an even less liked candidate like Biden. All 3rd Party candidates only got about 400,000 votes in 2016.

          1. This ain’t 2016. Why not tell us how the vote went in 2012, 2008, etc?

            1. Republican, Republican, etc…Lyndon Johnson(?)

            2. Poor alphabet troll.

              Not all voters vote in mid terms.

              You and unreason should get ready to cry because the Trump blowout of Biden is gonna be really bad.

              You won’t learn anything from it though.

              1. Not all voters vote in mid terms.

                What does that have to do with 2008 and 2012?

                1. Those were chocolate jesus midterms.

                  Get it?…there is no way RINOs could defeat Obama’s presidency to illustrate how White democrats could crown a Black man president toshow how unslavery they are.

            3. because 2016 is more appropriate. it was also longshot Trump against a DNC backed, charisma-challenged “moderate”. Except Biden has even less charisma than Clinton.

          2. sorry forgot sarc tag.

            1. Still, funny that Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf came to defend your sarcasm.

          3. Texas has changed. And Trump isn’t as popular as you think. I don’t think Biden will win Texas, but I won’t be shocked if he does. I know a handful of people changing their 2016 Trump vote to a not Trump vote. Most won’t vote for Biden but they also won’t vote Trump. I know no one that voted Hillary or didn’t vote in 2016 now voting Trump.

            1. I will be shocked if Biden is within 500,000 votes of Trump in Texas.

            2. Trump is MORE popular than he was in 2016.

              You know how I know? The media hates him more, so Americans like him more.

            3. I know a bunch that didn’t vote in 2016 that have come around and already cast their ballots for Trump, particularly in the evangelical group. The conservative ‘NeverTrumpers’ were pretty vocal back then and thought to be an effective president, you have to be “presidential” and not say naughty words. You don’t hear much about them these days other than the neocon Bill Kristol types. Most others have seen policy they really like, even though they still don’t personally care for the man.

              I also know a few who are typically pretty hardcore libertarian, and though they don’t agree with him on a lot, give strong enough kudos for not starting wars that they are willing to give him a second go, particularly over the lower half of the clown administration that gave rise to ISIS, that they are willing to lend their votes this time around.

              But then again, yours or my anecdotal experience pretty much means nothing.

    2. Where’s Kirkland?

      I’m looking forward to his spittle flecked rage when the God Emperor wins again.

  6. Who gives a shit if she is? For that to matter, you have to assume that the voters who voted for her would have magically all voted for the losing candidate. That is an absurd assumption.

    Anyone who votes for Jorgunson necessarily is voting for her because they don’t like Trump or Biden. If they liked Trump or Biden, they wouldn’t be voting for her. So, if Jorgunson were not on the ballot, chances are most of her voters wouldn’t vote at all or if they did they would leave the Presidential slot blank. Even the ones who did vote would be just as likely to vote for Biden as they would be for Trump should she not be on the ballot.

    Welch’s obsession with Jorgunson being above the spread between Biden and Trump is frankly retarded. To the extent she gets more votes, both parties will be more likely to try and appeal to those voters. But there is nothing special or significant about her vote total being above the spread between the two major candidates. I can’t figure out if Welch is so stupid he doesn’t understand that or if he thinks his readers are that stupid.

    1. Welch had a Beto boner too.

      He just has no idea about politics or what America wants outside his Lefty bubble.

      1. The Mexican skateboarder

    2. There is some merit to covering the spread in a practical sense. If libertarians cover the spread in a key battleground state like OH or PA, it might indicate to the mainstream parties that courting those voters would play well in the next election. Maybe not at 1-2%, but certainly one would think at 5%, and especially if the LP ever got to 10%. What politician would turn their backs on the possibility of getting an additional 5-10% in a swing state?

      The media likes to focus on national politics, but the parties pay a lot more attention to a handful of states. If polling there indicates a strong libertarian bloc, it only makes sense that they would try to court these voters by talking about their positions that they have in common. If nothing else, it gets the parties talking about issues of liberty, which is at least something.

      1. If polling indicates a strong Libertarian block, then that matters depending on how big it is. Whether the block is larger than the spread between two candidates this election is irrelevant to that calculation.

        And beyond that, why would you want the major parties to cater to those voters? Doing that would just cause them to not vote Libertarian and vote for the major party. That kind of defeats the purpose of having a party doesn’t it?

        If your goal is to pull the major parties to your point of view, the way to do that is to join one of those parties and influence it not start your own party. If you start your own party, the goal is to build that party independent of the two parties. And doing that means the only thing that matters is your support not how it compares to the spread between the major parties.

        1. If the Republicans actually actively courted libertarians, say with reduced spending while in power or playing fast and loose with the Constitution; I’d vote for them in a heartbeat. And wouldn’t care if the LP went the way of the dodo as it wouldn’t be that relevant anymore.

          1. I think the best way to get the federal spending under control and to limit federal government is to start pushing government down to the states.

            Supporting federalist policies, promoting federalist actions (like defending Trump letting states choose covid response), and pushing against federal bailouts for state policies is a good place to start.

            Only a start, but it is one.

            1. Exactly right. The reason that the feds can spend what they spend is because they have the power to spend it. This is one of the many things that Progressives don’t get. When they want to hold corporate America responsible for collusion with politicians, they don’t understand that they ONLY thing that makes it possible is that the politicians have the power to collude with them to affect policy. Nobody seeks influence with people who don’t have any.

          2. The usual response of the Duopoly to a good showing by an LP candidate in any statewide race is to conspire in the state legislature to pass changes, of however dubious constitutionality, to the laws governing ballot access for the next election cycle. Even if the non-duopoly parties and independent candidates sue and win, it wastes the outsider political groups’ funds that could have been used on party building or advertising.

        2. Maybe if your goal was to get your party into power. If your goal is to actually promote liberty, then getting Republicans or Democrats to be sympathetic to your cause would be beneficial. See: Rand Paul, Thomas Massie.

          1. That is called joining the other party. Nothing wrong with that but having an LP is useless to that cause. And even if it is useful, having support above the spread doesn’t make it more useful.

            1. I can vote Rep in the primary and Lib in the general and achieve the same signaling outcome.

              I think including her name on polls might also increase her name recognition and total vote count in the election.

              Which is why they won’t include her in polls.

          2. You can’t get anyone to come knocking on your door if you aren’t willing to work with them. At most, if either major party even thinks about the 1% parties [and they really don’t], the thought is that it is pointless unless first, they can deliver the vote of their constituency to any substantial effect and second, are willing to concede in trade for something. it’s like putting a million dollars in your pocket – – nobody cares unless you are willing to engage with them on it and they can benefit as well. Until that happens, you can proclaim all day long that you’re a millionaire and nobody cares.

        3. encouraging the major parties to steal part of your platform is the main benefit of a third party (at least until they have enough money and supporters and clout to really compete).

          but Johnson earned a noticeable portion of the vote in 2016 (3% nationally, twice that in some states), and no one even mentioned him or the LP this time around. I’ve never seen an LP candidate get less press than Jorgensen did.

          1. Because she’s not perceived as either a threat or an asset. And what Johnson did or didn’t do, which is essentially nothing, doesn’t translate to her.

      2. Isn’t the LP’s high water mark in their 5 decades of existence 3.5%?

      3. I think it would better serve them to go after the large percentage of eligible non-voters, who averaged almost 30% of eligible voters in 2016. They definitely beat the spread if you count them into the mix. Why are we not talking about them?

    3. frankly retarded

      I’m surprised whenever I hear any say they’re voting for her. She has all the charm of a dead fish and imo it’s the most embarrassing LP ticket they’ve ever run.

      Not sure when exactly it happened, but Welch has become a liberal journolo hack and is no friend to the liberty movement.

      1. What does she offer? If you like leftist culture war stuff, you can vote Democrat. If you like low regulation stuff, you can vote Republican. The number of people who are on the side of the left in the culture war but on the side of Republicans on economics such that they don’t care about either enough to be a single issue voter is practically nonexistent.

        1. Who do I vote for if I want low taxes, more immigration, no gun control, no abortion control, no new wars, and no more tariffs?

          Political thought can’t be simply described by a line, which is all that 2 points (parties) can define.

          1. Good for you. But if the reason blend of ass sex, Mexicans, and pot were a winning patform, one of the two parties would adopt it whole cloth.

            The fact is the agree with you about ending all borders and the joys of mass immigration don’t agree with you about taxes and so forth. So pick your poison.

            And there is very little support for legalizing mothers to murder their children. So, your abortion position is going nowhere.

            1. LOL. But you didn’t address the fact that someone that holds those very positions doesn’t fit very well on your line of two parties. That’s my point, not trying to justify the positions themselves.

              1. I address the fact fine. I am just explaining to you how voting works. You are not getting everything you want. So, you need to decide what of the things you want you consider important.

                Are you so fucking stupid you don’t’ understand revealed preference versus stated preference?

              2. But you didn’t address the fact that someone that holds those very positions doesn’t fit very well on your line of two parties.

                Someone holding those positions doesn’t fit well anywhere on Earth.

              3. Our electoral system always ends up being a group of people who want to do something and the other people who want to oppose that thing, which means you get this ass backwards two party system. Most people will never fit in, but these assholes need a way to sort us all out for their own convenience.

                The best answer is probably not to vote at all, in the hopes that someday there’s simply no acknowledgement of government. How great would it be if 95% percent of adults in this country all decided not to file their taxes one year? That’s the type of total disregard for government I’m talking about. It’ll probably never happen, but it’s a nice thought.

              4. What you don’t understand Leo, is that nobody is giving up 70% of their voting bloc to get the half percent that you represent. As a matter of fact, they’d prefer having the LP and Greens around because it keeps people like you busy voting for a non-winner [if you vote at all], and thus not accidentally adding to the other guy’s vote total.

                So long as you’re knob-jobbing in the bushes or shagging the $5 doxy, you’re no danger to anyone’s daughter and not a consideration. Hell, one of the Parties may even be paying JoJo to run this time.

        2. I voted for Jorgensen. The Republicans are terrible on economics. The Democrats are terrible on pretty much everything.

          1. The Republicans are terrible on economics.

            Lowest ever black unemployment scared you, did it?
            Or was it the lowest overall unemployment in 70 years ?
            Perhaps the reduction of the corporate tax from 35 to 21%

            Terrible, just terrible!

            1. Terrible. And unfair.

      2. It’s a symbolic vote. It doesn’t matter who the candidate is. Unless it’s someone like Ron Paul with his own following and a reasonably high profile, no one votes LP because of who the candidate is.

          1. I would further say that most people vote for a party platform, or at least on a few key issues to that individual, rather than the candidate necessarily. My vote for Jo is more a reflection of the LP platform than it is with her. Similarly, I can’t imagine too many evangelicals are voting for Trump the person as opposed to the platform he represents. I can’t imagine too many millenials are voting for Joe Biden the septugenarian as opposed to the platform he represents.

            1. A vote for Jo is a vote for bake that fucking wedding cake and hire that Mexican.

              1. I don’t think so. It’s purely symbolic support for something more libertarian-ish for most people. I don’t see how votes for her will make policies enforcing things like that any more or less likely. And I’ve never heard anyone associated with the LP say that anyone should hire Mexicans, only that people should be allowed to if they so choose. Big difference.

                1. Jo promoted marxism.

                  1. Jo promoted that black lives matter, but denounced the marxist organization BLM that is abusing the movement.

                    1. No, she said: “it’s not enough to not be racist, we must be actively anti racist”
                      She declared fealty to and promoted marxism.

                    2. Marx didn’t have much to say about race, but to be fair race and economics are far more intertwined in America than Europe a century ago.

                      I don’t know which dead white man gave you permission to assert that there is a dichotomy of Marxist vs. slack-jawed bigot and nobody can be anything else.

                    3. I don’t know which dead white man gave you permission to assert that there is a dichotomy of Marxist vs. slack-jawed bigot and nobody can be anything else.

                      But you prove someone can be both!!

                    4. Marx didn’t have much to say about race…

                      Oh, is that so, you lying piece of shit?

                      “Without slavery, North America, the most progressive of countries, would be transformed into a patriarchal country. Wipe out North America from the map of the world and you will have anarchy— the complete decay of modern commerce and civilization. Abolish slavery and you will have wiped America off the map of nations.” Karl Marx, “The Poverty of Philosophy,” 1847

                      Fuck you, Tony…you’re a liar, a bigot, and a historical dunce. Go kill yourself.

                    5. So you are taking a pro-slavery position, I take it? You can never be too sure. Marx of course saw North American slavery as a sort of distilled essence of capitalist exploitation. You can’t say he was wrong.

                    6. He was wrong.

                      Mikedrop

                    7. Keep lying, Tony. Then kill yourself. You can go be with your racist hero.

                      https://www.newswars.com/karl-marx-was-a-horrific-racist-here-are-the-quotes-to-prove-it/

                    8. Try actually reading again Tony. Marx’s paragraph there is neither pro or anti-slavery. Once again, you miss the entire point. He was saying that America collapses without it and without America the world goes his direction. How do you get that the dismiss Marx is a pro-slavery position? You’ve said some pretty ignorant and flat out stupid things, but to not even understand the point he’s actually making is beyond stupid. Hell, I showed that to my 14 yr old child who got it. How old are you?

              2. The LP platform is more about businesses doing what they want while also not getting any special treatment from the federal government. So they can decide whether or not to bake that cake or hire a minority on their own. They just have to live with the consequences of popular opinion once they make their decisions.

                1. So the LP is against the Civil rights act and section 230?

            2. This more or less describes my vote for Gary Johnson in 2016, but more recently the LP party leadership has seemed to go out of their way to alienate people who were recruited to the liberty movement by Ron Paul. So it was going to take something special for me to vote for them again. Hornberger would have got my vote, but not Jorgensen, and since I can’t know if the next democrat administration will lead to a Woodrow Wilson style transformation of the country or not, all I can do is vote against the left now.

        1. Sure it is. But the number of votes being above the spread doesn’t make it more or less symbolic. And beyond that aren’t you people always claiming that the major parties are not entitled to your vote? If that is true, then stop worrying about how many votes you have compared to the spread. You wouldn’t be voting for the major parties anyway right?

        2. I can definitely understand the protest vote angle, but I think that the candidate definitely does matter.

          no one votes LP because of who the candidate is.

          I disagree with this. I’m a libertarian, and I voted GJ in 2016 because, with all his faults, I legitimately liked him as a person and also thought he was the best candidate at the time. If the LP had ran Jo Jorgensen in 2016 I probably would have not voted.

          1. The candidate doesn’t matter much.

            I vote LP because it lets me signal my preferred policies without corrupting my soul by voting for either Biden or Trump. Once you vote for a candidate, even if holding your nose, you become psychologically tied to them.

            If the Lib party were in any danger of actually winning, then I might spend some time worrying about whether Jo has the qualifications to actually be President.

            Given that they can’t ship a yard sign, I find it unlikely.

            1. That’s fair. Imo from a libertarian perspective, Trump seems to be the obvious choice, even compared with Jorgensen. Idk what happened to the LP but they seem hellbent on making libertarians and libertarianism looking as shitty as possible. The distinction between big ‘L’ and little ‘l’ in 2020 is enormous.

            2. A vote for Jo Jorgensen in this election signals to the LP party leadership to put up a similar candidate next time. Hornberger would have been a far better spokesperson for the party and the movement, but these CATO types control the show now.

              1. no, that’s what the primaries are for. and I sure didn’t vote for Jorgensen in the primary, but I did against Trump and Biden.

      3. It’s like they looked at the Hillary campaign and thought it just needed a really Jewy SJW with a cringe name for VP.

    4. Welch’s obsession with Jorgunson being above the spread between Biden and Trump is frankly retarded.

      They can’t not talk about the libertarian candidate and since the 5% of the electorate bar doesn’t matter any more they have to make shit up in order to talk about her. Not to give them too much credit because they should’ve been doing it since last November, but there’s worse things a libertarian magazine could be doing (and we know that’s true because it’s what Reason’s been doing for the last 4 yrs.).

      1. …they have to make shit up in order to talk about her. Not to give them too much credit because they should’ve been doing it since last November, but there’s worse things a libertarian magazine could be doing

        The first big article I remember them doing about the LP race this cycle was from Welch talking about Spike Cohen basically saying ‘look at this fucking douchebag’. Not that he was wrong, but still, it’s like they went out of their way not to talk about the LP this time around.

        1. Not just Reason, but the entire news media avoided third party candidate coverage this time. Harry Browne got more press.

          1. If you want attention, you need to have a radical message, like ron Paul for example back in 08 and 12. But the LP has made it clear that squishy, woke friendly, CATO candidates are the way to make sure that the likes of CNN and MSNBC never accuse you of being racist, which is the most important thing after all.

            1. Of course that presumes that one matters enough for CNN and MSNBC to know who you are, which I’m pretty sure that none of them have even looked. And I’m not sure why they would. Their idea of “news” is “whatever can’t help you can only hurt you, so only talk about that which helps”. Hell, between the two of them, their idea of a conservative is Joe Scarborough. Both named Hillary as a moderate or even conservative Democrat.

    5. Have you followed Matt this year at all?

    6. I am a lifelong Democrat in Las Vegas but voted for Jo.

  7. I am in a tizzy from the electricity generated by the LP candidate this election cycle. You go, Gary, er, Jo.

  8. Thanks for this article. It is interesting and it will add some interest to the end result, especially if Trump loses in a big state he is expected to win. If Biden does win do we expect Jo to request a record in any states like Jill?

  9. A vote for Jorgensen is a vote for Biden and left-wing domination of the federal government for a generation. I am a small “l” libertarian, but I know the only thing the LP has ever accomplished to to help elect left-wing Democrats. I detest Trump, but I’m voting for him anyway.

    1. So… if I don’t vote (for Jorgensen) then Biden will have a vote removed from his Kansas total? How’s this work, exactly?

      1. It’s one fewer vote for Trump.

        Logic….how do it work?

        1. Mr. T maybe never got to Archimedes and the leverage principle in math. Search “Getting their Attention with Spoiler Votes” –Libertariantranslator

      2. Aha you see the logic going around.

        For myself I never understood it.

        Negative voting is a trick brought on by the two party system. It is how they stay in power and avoid competition.

        1. It’s how they stay in office. Twelve years ago it was a trivial coincidence that the economy crashed in an orgy of Republican asset forfeiture as in 1907, 1920, 1929, 1987… The key thing was if the Dems were to win in 2008, white folks would be rendered down in communist cast-iron kettles, honest to God, saw it in a Revelation!

    2. No it’s not. A vote for Jo os a vote for Jo. Dems say the same thing that a vote for third party is a vote for Trump.

      1. Yes and their recruiters are all over this place.

    3. Same as in 1912, both Kleptocracy halves pretending to be different as they Stand at Armageddon. However… “Me and the Republicans are enemies just one day in the year–election day. Then we fight tooth and nail The rest of the time it’s live and let live with us.” George Washington Plunkitt

    4. Trump won’t win my state, so it doesn’t matter what you think about my continuing LP, as I have done in every election since 1980 when Ed Clark ran. If I lived in a swing state this might be an issue, but I don’t, so it isn’t.

  10. Polls are not elections.

    It’s one thing to say, in a poll, that you would prefer that she won over the other two winning. It’s quite another to cast a vote for a candidate you know won’t win when you perceive substantial difference between the two candidates who do have a chance.

    And before anyone says “She could win if everyone who thought that way just voted for her!” – no, she couldn’t. Not enough people think that way, and we all know it. Elections aren’t won on election day; they’re won in the years leading up to the election. Jo hasn’t done the job of convincing people she can win, ergo she won’t get many votes.

    1. This goes back to the observation that your single vote will NOT change the election.

      But the vote can change you. There’s pretty deep psych literature on how people will defend the things they say, even if they didn’t mean them at the time. And then they start believing it.

      It’s why it’s so important that judges don’t make public statements about their opinions. It makes it much harder for them to change their minds.

      1. So Jo voters can look forward to defending racist marxism?

        1. Jo promoted that black lives matter, but denounced the marxist organization BLM that is abusing the movement. Can’t see how that is defending racist marxism.

          1. Addressed above.
            You’re in denial.

          2. I denounce Lenin and his close associates, but the rank and file bolsheviks are really well intentioned.

            1. Useful idiots are abundant still!

  11. Well I voted for Jorgensen, but if she’s polling at 2 percent, she’ll probably get 0.5 percent of the vote. Johnson was polling at 8 percent and ended up with 3 percent of the vote.

    And it’s not like Jorgensen is pulling 100 percent of her votes from Trump supporters. Most of us would stay home if the only choice was Trump or Biden.

    1. shhhh…. if she beats the spread, i want whoever loses to think it is her fault. i want them to think they can win voters back by stopping the march off the right/left cliff, and trying to address libertarian ideals.

      1. Trump has run the most libertarian administration in my lifetime. Granted, thats not a high bar, but in no way is Trump marching off the right’s cliff.

        Who is most likely to flatten the tax code?
        Who is most likely to reform policing, sentencing?
        Who is most likely to deracialize?
        Who is most likely to respect the bill of rights?
        And i mean actually make progress…not just pablum.
        Its trump, not jo. And it sure as hell isnt biden

        1. +1000000000000

        2. Most likely to spend us into oblivion Trump:
          Trump talks 2021 budget proposal at governors event
          The president spoke with governors from around the nation at the White House Monday.
          President Donald Trump unveiled a $4.8 trillion budget Monday that seeks to balance the budget in 15 years, falling short of the the traditional Republican target of doing so over 10 years.

          Most likely to spy on innocent Americans:
          WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday said he signed into law a bill renewing the National Security Agency’s warrantless internet surveillance program, sealing a defeat for digital privacy advocates.

          Don’t get me wrong, I like Trump, but he is not perfect.

          1. Do you know what part of our government handles budgetting?

          2. Most likely to spy on innocent Americans

            So you’re paying you paid zero attention to what Obama and Biden did to Trump supporters and the Trump campaign using the intelligence agencies?

        3. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….. are you F’n kidding me? federal agents rounding up protesters against local authority desires, trade wars and tariffs, border walls and families separated and locked in cages, military deployment at the same exact levels he started with…… fuck anyone trying to use the word libertarian to describe this clown.

          1. Whoa! MSNBC has a direct feed into your brain, right? Take a breath their Sparky and wipe that smuz off your face.

  12. And we care about the spread in biased polls why, exactly?

  13. She HAD a tremendous chance. Even worse competition than 2016. And she seems like a decent candidate. And the prerequisite female status.

    But then the LP proved they want nothing to do with progress or success with the VP vote.

    Give it up. The truth is known now.

    1. no one even knows who the LP VP candidate is, so that didn’t move the needle.

      1. Most people who would vote LP know who Spike is. And that’s gotta make at least some of them just shake their heads and turn on the bluetooth headphones till after the election.

    2. Did she have a chance though? She’s even more obscure than Gary
      Johnson. The pandemic prevented her from making even a handful of appearances on national tv. She was barely visible on this very magazine.

      Her Twitter followers were not pleased by Jorgensen’s apparent approval of BLM earlier this year. I sense very little enthusiasm for her anywhere. Back in 2008 and 2012 I use to see a horde of Ron Paul supporters hijack threads that discussed Mccain or Romeny.

  14. even being blacklisted by the media, we could pull enough to make them fear us. (don’t tell them we would have not voted without Jo on the ballot….. i want them to think we are stolen votes, so they will try to earn them back.)

    1. Nobody cares what your half percent did so long as it wasn’t voting for the other guy. No, nobody is coming after your vote because so long as you are knob-hobbing in the bushes, you’re not an asset or a threat to anyone. Fact is, having someone like Jo to vote for is an asset because it means you don’t accidentally vote for anyone that counts.

  15. South Park Cows beat the spread!

    (damn, that episode was 23 years ago)

    1. And here I am thinking I need to catch up on the Simpsons…

  16. I like her. She is smart, principled, and has more character than the other two combined.

    You can’t catch any fish by standing on the shore talking about it. You need to fish where the fish are.

    Without the LP we are nothing but a debate society talking to each other.

    1. Just follow that fish smell…right?

    2. With the LP, you’re still nothing more than a debate society. The LP does nothing more than add a punchline to actual libertarianism, and they chose a guy named Spike just to prove it.

  17. The reason that there is no polling in important states is that the media know, despite what they say, that the LP candidates consistently take more votes from Democrats than Republicans. In a year when there will be mass riots and suicides if Trump wins, the media will not take any chances with publicity for any 3rd party that might change the outcome from a Democrat sweep.

  18. JORGENSEN, really? Never heard the name until here! Trump 2020!

    1. Wouldn’t you have liked to hear about her sooner? Maybe the MSM could cover all candidates on all 51 ballots equally, especially since one of those three parties had to do a lot of footwork and campaigning just to get on those ballots (an amazing feat in and of itself for a 3rd party). That would definitely help. There’s absolutely no bias in the media, no motivation that would prevent their equal coverage, right?

      I am hoping you can see my sarcasm.

      1. There is a perfectly clear media bias toward coverage of the only two candidates who might possibly be the next president. You might as well be bitching that they’re not giving equal time to your cat. This election is hardly the time or place for dicking around with spoiler candidates.

        1. This election is exactly the time and place to be dicking around with third party spoiler candidates.

  19. The whole third party candidate thing is best summed up by, of all people, Ralph Nader, when he was asked about it:

    “I’d be happy with a second party…”

    1. …So Nader must be a Trump supporter!

  20. Why do so many people assume that the Libertarian candidate must be taking votes away from either a Republican or a Democrat/Communist? If I didn’t have the option of voting for Jorgensen, I still wouldn’t vote for either Trump or Biden. That said, I’m not voting this year because the dictator of NJ has mandated vote-by-mail because that makes it easier for him to fix the elections to favor the D/C party.

  21. A vote of Jorgensen is a vote for Biden and a generation of government domination by leftist progressives. I am a small “l” libertarian, but the only thing the LP has ever accomplished is to help elect leftwing Democrats.

    1. Some time in the future when you are lamenting about the leftwing government dominance and all the terrible things it’s doing to you like cheaper healthcare and investment in science and, like, roads, you can look back to the great year 2020 with all its peace and calm and prosperity and ponder what went wrong. What could it be.

      1. Everything is so terrible and unfair!

        Oh, wait. It’s not!

        Sucks to be you.

    2. A vote for Donald Trump is a vote for Donald Trump.

      A vote for Jo Jorgensen is a vote for Jo Jorgensen

  22. Beating the spread? So what, it’s meaningless. If your poll of Reason writers is any indication there’s no evidence that Jorgenson votes are at Trump’s expense.

    1. Search: “Why Voting Libertarian Works” –Libertariantranslator

  23. So when Dementia Joe wins the election by five votes, even given all the dead people I see voting in Chicago, we have this whackdoodle to thank? Hey, we may be going down the toilet, but at least your Silicon Valley overlords are pleased — you win a cookie.

    This comment not approved by Silicon Valley brain slugs.

    1. You see dead people voting?

      1. Only in Chicago

  24. NICE JOB FOR EVERY ONE CHEK DETAIL OPEN THIS LINK……… CLICK HERE FOR FULL DETAIL

  25. of course of election day the L voted will magically be half what the polls say…same thing every cycle…and Reason puts out this same idiotic piece, every cycle

  26. Some might say Democrats would be committing political malpractice not to recruit a libertarian spoiler in such a race. There are plenty of people who would like an alternative between Demonrats and the guy who kinda maybe just killed a quarter million people and seemed to enjoy it.

    If for no other reason than to counter the analogous Republican effort of recruiting Kanye to siphon off the votes of some of those dumb blacks.

    1. I’d hate to be Tony when the Chinese Communist Party’s Honorable Chan Ling Fance interrogates him about whose germ lab product has been killing people.

  27. As reason noted back in 2016, third party candidates underperform polling on election day. Gary Johnson was polling at 10% in September and ended up getting 3.27% of the popular vote.

    Bottom line – Jorgensen will not match Johnson’s 2016 total. She was virtually invisible in popular media (whereas Johnson made appearances on cable tv news and Jimmy Kimmel) and has all the exciting personality of a housewife. Her twitter page has less followers than Larry Elder. She basically had no GOTV game, but unlike Biden she doesn’t have media going to bat for her.

    If polling is correct, most indies who voted for Johnson will pick Biden. Many whites with no BA is projected to vote for Biden. On the other hand the GOP made registration gains in some battleground states and Trump gained a bit with blacks and Latinos.

    Any number of those factors will offset “Jogensen covering the spread”. She’ll get 3 mil votes, maybe.

    1. I’ll say she gets about 1 million. Which will still be less $ spent per vote than what Biden and Trump will do.

      1. I dont think she does well. In 2016, both candidates were unlikeable and unknowns relative to how they will govern. We know exactly how trump and biden will govern.

        From what i have seen in a key swing state/county, trump has not lost any voters. Reluctant trump voters that i know are now ardent trump voters. And due to blue governor lockdown, women who voted against trumps crudeness have become reluctant trump voters. There is nothing about biden that appeals to suburban women…..sure the ardent dems are vocal, but the swing voters….the pandemic has overridden the biggest reasons women were against trump. And they are motivated to vote anti-dem because their children lives are being ruined by dem governors. It will be interesting.

        1. There is nothing about biden that appeals to suburban women

          He is less crude and impolite than Trump.

          And he might notice which shampoo they use!

          1. And as my wife pointed out he is more trim and handsome for an older man.
            Also not orange.
            So he’s got that going for him

    2. People did not quit buying cassettes and revert to vinyl. Nor do they shun CDs because of cassette commercials. LP spoiler votes maneuver the Kleptocracy into repealing coercion and legalizing freedom. That’s OUR product; theirs are grinning looters, coathanger abortions, prison and taxes. Railroads replaced canals, planes replaced railroads, democracies are replacing monarchies and socialist dictators. The GOP and Dems are separated by a thin margin because they are the SAME THING. That sameness adds to LP leverage–or did before Open Borders and Das Boothead.

  28. Everyone who fucking hates Trump will vote Biden
    Everyone who fucking hates Biden will vote Trump
    Most people who fucking hate both Trump and Biden will not vote, but enough will vote for Jo where she may get about 2-3 million votes given the huge turnout this election, and if she tips some of these states, she may have a lasting influence with one of the major parties, the way Ralph Nader turned the donkey party to the left after 2000.

    1. Anything under 9.2 million votes is due to infiltrators changing the platform to uninspected entry while saddling Jo with a commie anarchist boothead for veep. Voters have learned that “Thank you sir, may I have another?” repeals no laws and changes no platforms. LP votes are a permanent record of the policies tens of millions of voters have ordered loud and clear over the past 11 presidential campaigns. They infiltrate and ignore us at their peril.

  29. I hope we fuck things up!

  30. Libertarians for Trump 2020.

    1. Psst… dude, this isn’t the James L. Battersby Holy Book of Adolf Hitler meetup. It’s a libertarian magazine.

      1. Haha. Says the dude who upthread didn’t seem to realize that we’ve all moved on from CD’s.

        1. Which is a shame. CDs are better than streaming because they are uncompressed. I still listen to my CDs sometimes. They just sound better.

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  33. Even after the election, it seems that the discussions will not end.

  34. Please DO NOT waste your vote by voting for Jorgensen this election cycle. If Biden / Harris get elected, Libertarians will be dealing with Socialism instead of a silly, old orange-haired buffoon. Vote for the lesser of two evils – VOTE TRUMP.

    1. Another Republican Shill on Reason.

      1. Yep. Pants-schaissting gee-oh-peers are remembering losing the popular vote to LP spoilers. But the chance to fix that–dumping prohibition and forfeiture laws from their platform wish list–is past. They made their bed and deserve as much sympathy as their drug cops show unarmed victims. Think of it as evolution in action. Artificial selection–the very eugenics Herbert Hoover and Adolf Hitler were sold on–requires some culling of parties with learning disabilities.

      2. No, bonehead. I am an Independent who can think critically. Every Libertarian should oppose Open Border / BLM Loving Jo Jorgensen and vote for President Trump. Otherwise, we’re going to be dealing with Socialism. Try and think before you type.

        1. Oh so you are an independent here to tell libertarians what they “should” do.
          Somehow that doesn’t sit right with a lot of people who value liberty and individualism.

        2. Jo did not endorse BLM that is an outright lie. She condemned racism and police brutality. Everything she has come out for is straight out of the LP platform including her stance on immigration. If anything she is kind of boring that way.

          I don’t really care who anyone else votes for.

  35. Jorgensen jumped on the BLM bandwagon right off the bat. Only a brainless buffoon would do that. Trump has done more for libertarian principals than any Libertarian Party candidate. The party is incompetent.

    1. No she did not. She came out against racism and police violence. But rubs a lot of people around here the wrong way. You can read the Readon article quoting her.

      But I am not going to convince anybody at this point. She could have dropped her ice cream cone and some would give that as a reason not to vote for her.

      1. Voting for Jorgensen is about like sitting it out. Unless you vote for someone that actually has a chance you are wasting your vote. At least vote for Biden. His family may need a lot more money for lawyers with all the discovery of crimes by Hunter. The “big guy” can at least fix a couple more great deals before justice catches up.

        1. In CA, that’s not true. Any vote for a candidate by me is irrelevant, even if I voted for slobbering Joe; he can only win CA’s electoral votes once, regardless of the number of lefty shits voting for him (local news has ‘huge numbers of voters!!!’).
          Jo got my vote, in spite of her lies regarding petroleum industry “subsidies” (there are none, regardless of her lies and jackass’ citing of same).
          Mine is purely a ‘protest’ vote; if I were in a state where the vote mattered, Trump would have gotten my vote, ignoring snobby lefty shits.

        2. So all I have is a choice between cat shit sandwich and dog shit sandwich ?

          No thanks.

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  37. Please DO NOT waste your vote by voting for Jorgensen this election cycle. If Biden

    1. Is there some organized effort to go to libertarian and other websites to campaign for Donald Trump? Starting to sound like a robocall around here. Click

      1. “Is there some organized effort to go to libertarian and other websites to campaign for Donald Trump? Starting to sound like a robocall around here. Click…”

        Are you, as a lefty shit, trying to organize a campaign for the crook Biden?
        I’m still waiting to hear what made you an arrogant piece of shit.

        1. Consistent support for the libertarian ticket and platform makes me a lefty arrogant piece of shit.

          Check that.

    2. Another Republican who failed long division

      1. Another Republican Trumpist, we see.

        Fine if that that is what you are than wear it proudly.

        If you are a socialist then be a socialist.

        I am libertarian.

        I don’t care what you are.

        Two great American artists just laying it down. Ray Charles and Willie Nelson. Seven Spanish Angels.

        https://youtu.be/x8A9Y1Dq_cQ

  38. Alaska’s so non-conformist that 102.3 percent of the people are going to vote!

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  40. What can I say? Our system disenfranchises libertarians.

  41. Matt still doesn’t get it. Libertarians want you to listen closely to what our opponents are saying about each other. Remember those things when you see LIB: Jo Jorgensen on the ballot to repeal all drug laws, stop invading and bombing and repeal the individual income tax. Winning is repealing bad laws, and Jo is WINNING for us. This message has since 1972 been spreading. Since 2007 when LP spoiler votes were identified as geared levers for repealing cruel laws, logistic replacement curve math kicked in. My numbers predict 9.2 million LP votes, but recent platform sabotage and a communist anarchist for veep are sure to skew our results.

    1. Did you read her lies about subsidies to the petroleum industries, Hank?
      Just asking; your posts are often ‘disjointed’ to say the least.

    2. Yeah, but how does it all tie in to the campaign of Grover Cleveland in…….. whenever?

  42. “In fact, polls have repeatedly shown that 2016 third-party voters—57 percent of whom pulled the lever for Johnson—disproportionately favor the Democrat in 2020.”

    Perhaps that’s because Democrats successfully sued to prevent the Green Party’s presidential nominee from being placed on the ballot in many states, including PA and WI (as most greens will vote for Biden because he’s the most socialist of the options).

  43. I strongly suspect that most libertarians in PA will vote for Trump.

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  46. Hey, Reason–

    You guys need to cover the most recent Biden-Harris ad where Kamala Harris pushes full-blown Marxism under the euphemism of “equity.” She posted it on her official blue-checked Twitter account.

    The ad was just released a few hours ago (11/1). A few right-wing sites have noticed it (Breitbart, Daily Wire, The Gateway Pundit, Redstate). Drudge Report and Fox News haven’t reported on it yet. I do not expect any left-leaning or centrist media outlet to cover it.

  47. I expect she will get 1/2 the vote that Gary Johnson did last election. Better focus on house and senate seats first.

  48. Who is to be more disappointed by most Americans today — the Trump fans, who are positioned to lose the presidency, or Jorgenson supporters, who will once again be denied relevance?

    Carry on, clingers . . . perhaps not much longer, though. Your betters may see to that, as usual.

  49. I expect she will get 1/2 the vote that Gary Johnson did the last election. Better focus on house and senate seats first.

    House = (D)
    Senate = (R)
    POTUS = Trump

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  50. Why is it that the Libertarian Party has resolutely ignored voting reform for decades and instead HOPES to be a spoiler? A true spoiler, by definition is going to take support away from the most libertarian major party candidate and elect the least libertarian candidate.

    More to the point, I quit the Libertarian Party in 2002 precisely over the issue that the LP refused to make it an issue then. And that remains the case. Worse, the LP, if some people have anything to say on the issue at all pick the absolute worst Rank Choice system, Instant Runoff, an Australian voting system pushed by the “FairVote” people. IRV uses a discard algorithm that throws away voter preference information. Correct is Condorcet – the ranked system that uses a round-robin tournament-like system that uses all the preference information.

    About every couple of months I check in and no one seems to have expended the tiniest bit of intellectual energy looking into social choice theory and the “true majority winner”. Come on people – IRV with all its flaws is more likely to finally be rejected when some non-monotonicity paradox (look it up) becomes manifest in a recount. It will then poison the well for the only ranked system that will deliver the goods: Condorcet.

  51. Jo Jorgensen really knocked them both there. interesting and funny to watch

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  52. How can it be that the Libertarian Party has undauntedly overlooked democratic change for quite a long time and rather HOPES to be a spoiler? A genuine spoiler, by definition will remove uphold from the most libertarian significant gathering competitor and choose the least libertarian up-and-comer.

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