Election 2020

Trump's New Lawsuit Looks Like an Attempt To Cancel All Mail-in Votes in Pennsylvania

The newest lawsuit in Pennsylvania is a longshot attempt to argue that all mail-in voting is unconstitutional because it differs from traditional, in-person voting. It's likely to fail.

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Having so far failed to uncover any evidence of widespread voter fraud or substantiate claims of "irregularities" in last week's election, President Donald Trump's campaign has now launched its broadest legal effort yet aimed at overturning the apparent results of the election.

The lawsuit, filed Monday in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, argues that "Pennsylvania has created an illegal two-tiered voting system" that runs afoul of the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution by applying different standards to in-person voting and mail-in voting. Voters who appeared at the polls, the lawsuit argues, had their signatures verified in polling places monitored by poll-watchers who ensured votes were "counted in a transparent and verifiable, open, and observed manner."

Even though the signatures on mail-in ballots must also be verified against voter rolls, the Trump lawsuit argues that state officials "permitted the review and counting of mail-in ballots largely in secret with no monitoring." There's been no evidence of that, but the Trump campaign wants the federal courts to prevent state and county officials from certifying the results of the election—an outcome that could deny Biden the necessary electoral votes needed to win the race, depending on the final results in other states.

The Trump campaign's argument cites Bush v. Gore (2000), the Supreme Court ruling that halted the Florida recount after the 2000 presidential election. In that case, the Court ruled that states must grant the right to vote "on equal terms" and may not set rules that potentially value one person's vote over another. In Pennsylvania, Trump's lawsuit argues, the state has effectively done that because in-person votes were subjected to more oversight than mail-in votes.

But the ruling in Bush v. Gore was actually much narrower than the Trump lawsuit makes it sound. During the 2000 recount, different counties in Florida had different standards for determining voter intent when reviewing ballots with the infamous "hanging chads"—and, as a result, the same ballot might have been counted differently in one county versus another. That was unfair, the Court said.

That is not the issue here. At its heart, the new Trump lawsuit is an attempt to call into question the constitutionality of all mail-in ballots cast in federal elections, says Steve Vladeck, a University of Texas law professor.

To put it mildly, courts are unlikely to buy the idea that mail-in voting—which has been used for decades in American elections—is suddenly a violation of equal protection.

"The core idea of the complaint, that the different procedures for people to vote by mail versus voting in person constitutes an equal protection violation, is ludicrous," writes Rick Hasen, a professor of law and political science at the University of California, Irvine. Writing at the Election Law Blog, Hasen has a long list of other reasons why Trump's newest legal challenge will likely fail.

Trump was leading in Pennsylvania by about 700,000 late in the evening of Election Day. But because Pennsylvania is one of a handful of states that did not begin counting mail-in ballots prior to Election Day—and because mail-in ballots in the state have favored Biden by a ratio of nearly three-to-one—that lead dwindled in the following days as counties tallied up the absentee votes. Biden pulled ahead in Pennsylvania on Friday and the major media outlets called the race on Saturday morning. Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes seem to have clinched the presidency for Biden, who leads in the state by about 40,000 on Tuesday as the counting continues.

You may recall that just before the election, Trump's team had won a small victory at the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled that Pennsylvania must segregate mail-in ballots that arrived after Election Day. That pile of ballots could be the subject of additional Supreme Court scrutiny, but state officials say there are not enough late-arriving ballots to swing the outcome.

Other legal efforts have also flopped. A state judge on Friday dismissed a Trump campaign lawsuit that tried to disqualify so-called cured ballots—mail-in votes that could not be counted at first but that may be counted if the voter fixes the problem with the ballot within a limited period of time. In another case, Trump's campaign brought allegations that Republican poll-watchers were being excluded from vote-counting facilities in Philadelphia. Under questioning from a federal judge, the campaign's attorney admitted that, actually, that wasn't true.

Meanwhile, some Republican lawmakers in Pennsylvania are calling for a "legislative audit" of the state's election results. State Senate Majority Leader Jake Corman (R–Centre County) has acknowledged that there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, but he has also warned that executive officials and the state Supreme Court undermined public confidence in the election's outcome by changing the rules for mail-in voting shortly before Election Day.

That's a legitimate gripe. But it does not come close to justifying an attempt to invalidate the fundamental practice of voting by mail.

NEXT: The Supreme Court's Latest Obamacare Case Is a Massive Troll of Chief Justice Roberts

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  1. “Having so far failed to uncover any evidence of widespread voter fraud or substantiate claims of “irregularities” in last week’s election, President Donald Trump’s campaign has now launched its broadest legal effort yet aimed at overturning the apparent results of the election.”

    Oh come on! The fact that Trump didn’t win is all the evidence you need!

    1. “The fact that Trump didn’t win is all the evidence you need!”

      I can hear Hillary saying the same about her 2016 loss too
      These people treat their leaders as gods who cannot fail.

      1. No you can’t, because Hillary Clinton conceded the loss to Trump.

        1. Before or after she spent 4 years claiming she lost solely due to Russia?

          1. Trumpistas lust after outlawing all non-Republican votes! Nothing less than a 1-party State will do! Because we all know how well 1-party states work!

            All Hail the new 1-party State, Citizen Comrades!

            1. Idiots use childish name calling because they are incapable of making an argument. The rest of your commentary is a summary of the mission of the Democrats. First we had the racist ex-crackhead with the mission of “fundamentally changing America” and now that Biden has been crowned, supported by Chuck Schumer declaring that if they can get Georgia, they will change the world and then he declared they’d “change America.” Then we have the party that claims to be the defenders against fascism declaring we need to create lists and reeducate.

              On the subject at hand, I would challenge the mail in vote on the basis that it has “NO CHAIN OF CUSTODY” you blithering idiot. I don’t believe that mail-in can’t be used but we need a better system that provides for end-to-end accountability.

              Shouldn’t you be commenting over the the Washington Post where idiots go to post their inane ramblings.

              1. USA has survived 240 years or so without armies of lawyers and computers and video and endless data-gathering, and endless fighting over vote-counting. All this new computer power, etc.? And Trumpistas STILL want to fight over every last little vote, and whether it is legit or not! HOW MUCH DATA do you need, assholes?!?

                You want to fight for the sake of fighting, is the truth! And the likes of YOU, will lead to the death of democracy, if you have your way! Nothing less than a 1-party state will keep your greedy assholes happy! Have you ever heard of “unquenchable thirst”, power-greedy assholes? It does NOT lead to your Happy Place! Unquenchable is unquenchable, lusters after what you can never have!

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                  Poor man wanna be rich
                  Rich man wanna be king
                  And a king ain’t satisfied
                  ‘Til he rules everything

                  It ain’t gonna happen, unquenchably greedy assholes!

                  1. Kill your self shit eater.

                2. You are fucking retarded.

                  https://www.history.com/news/most-contentious-u-s-presidential-elections

                  Elections have been contested from the start.

                  1. An intelligent, thoughtful reader would have read my posts and gotten the point! We have always fought stupid political battles, yes! Including battles about who got the most votes! But we have gathered more and more data-gathering POWER and TOOLS, and it STILL isn’t enough to quell the fighting! Why? Because putting the “Right Top Men” in charge isn’t the fix! The problem is that Government Almighty is WAAAY too large! THAT is why we fight political fights, is because Government Almighty runs entirely too much of our lives!

                    In the future, we’ll all get our panties in a yet-bigger twist over each and every vote, as we fight like weasels in heat, over Government Almighty power! I see the day coming, when, in order to vote, I have to give DNA samples (to prove my ID) to one each representative of the Democrat Party, the “R” Party, and the “L”, “G”, and “C” Parties, each for their independent verification. And then there will be armies of bureaucrats to oversee and record each and every DNA test, yada-yada.

                    Instead of fighting the every-growing Government Almighty nit-picking, micro-managing powers, the right-wing nut jobs are just gonna keep right on feeding this here beast that I have just described! Voting will be SOOO arduous, and odorous, that few will bother!

                    We are in danger of killing the goose (voting) that lays the golden eggs (democracy)!

                    If JesseSPAZ is smart enough to actually READ the above, I predict that, like an autistic fifth-grader, JeeseSPAZ will respond like this:

                    “You are fucking retarded. Look, dummy, golden eggs are made out of gold, which has an atomic number of 79, which is NOT divisible by 2! And geese don’t lay golden eggs! Silly twat!”

                3. On November 10th 2000 we were still about 30 days away from the final Supreme Court ruling that would decide the fate of the election, you colossally fucking retarded piece of of shit.

                  1. The Trump team lacks two essential elements: admissible evidence and a viable legal theory.

                    1. Interesting. Reality says otherwise.

              2. US mail and a signed, sealed envelope is enough chain of custody and has been so since about the time of the civil war. BTW, the US mail is authorized to carry classified material (at least DOD). By your argument, electronic voting would also be banned.

                Trump himself voted by mail in Florida!

                Bottom line, the voters voted by rules established before the election and had every intention of casting a ballot for whomever. The rules were uniform across the state. Now you want to change them? Because tRumpy Bear lost?

                tRump is a documented liar, draft-dodging, cheat (college admission, taxes, bank loans, and of course his wife) who will lie to YOU if he thinks it will further his aims. He literally cannot make a single argument why his policies would be better than anyone else’s except he uses ad hominum attacks and name calling.
                But hey, he’s got you scared, scared enough that you believe only the Don can save you/us and anyone else would doom us.

                1. Biden is a lying draft dodger who is on the payroll of communist Chinese, Russian oligarchs, Russian leaning Ukrainian oligarchs, Iranian totalitarians. His campaign was funded by billionaires who are looking forward to returning to their international, corporatist ways at the expense of the American people, as Democrats and never-trumper establishment Republicans desire.

                  Under the Biden/Obama regime, the rich got richer, the middle class, working poor, minorities lost ground and got poorer. Income inequality grew.

                  Under Trump policies, the poor and middle class made up some ground that they had lost during the Biden/Obama rule.

                  There has been voting fraud. It is unlikely that Trump will be able to prove the fraud is sufficient to change the election outcome because the counters have destroyed the evidence. So we will wind up with four years, split between Biden and Harris, of inept government that was elected by people who hate Trump and were willing to settle for ineptness as the lesser of two evils.

                  Nobody loves either Biden or Harris. No one wanted their agenda.

                  The people who voted for Biden and Harris already regret their decision.

                2. Sure, if you double wrap it to prevent anyone – including the USPS – from knowing its classified. And only Secret and below.

                  Also, there are several other *private* mail services that can also be used to transmit Secret and Confidential material so its not like the USPS has any particular special trust.

                  https://www.dm.usda.gov/ohsec/pdsd/MailingClassifiedInformation.pdf

            2. Actually the Libertarian party will make a VERY NICE replacement for the treasonous terrorists of the left.

              1. I lust after that, too, truth be told! But NOT a 1-party libertarian state! I think I know human nature well enough, to say with reasonable confidence, that as soon as that happened, in 20 years if not less, the Libertarian Party would fall to wrack and ruin! Because all of the wrong people (those with punishment boners of self-righteousness and power-lust) are attracted to power! “Wolves in sheep’s clothes”, a very fart smeller… I mean, a smart feller… Called them, way back when!

                1. You aren’t worthy of life. Suicide is the on,y path for you.

              2. Come to think of it; I’d be dumping trump — Let that be a lesson for you treasonous traitors. Want to get rid of Trump and the Republicans — Why don’t you be a patriot and SUPPORT THE CONSTITUTION!!!

            3. Yeah, the people who want to investigate colossally huge statistical anomalies and 150 affidavits of misconduct are the ones that want a one-party state. Not the people calling to end the vote counting before the tallies are completed or certified.

              It’s remarkable that you sometimes have breaks of lucidity sufficient only to project your own pathologies onto others you sad piece of subhuman dog shit. I really, truly, hope that you die of the most lingering, painful, unimaginably debilitating form of cancer there is.

              1. 150 unverified, unanalyzed affidavits are not evidence. Sorta like McCarthy’s list or tRump’s tax return. I’ll believe it when I see them (and analyze them). Until then, if it comes from tRump or one of his cohorts, its not to believed. Sadly the POTUS is such a liar that he cannot be believed.
                There is one statistical anomaly, pollsters numbers didn’t match tRumps votes for two elections now… Could be silent Republicans or fraud. Never met one tRump supporter that wasn’t excited to tell someone what they thought so I guess it must be massive voter fraud Eh?

                1. When they’re unverified and unanalyzed they’re not evidence but they don’t get to be verified and analyzed unless they’re investigated.

                  Nice Catch 22.

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          3. Well, someone conceded to Trump.

            It will be interesting to see if Trump can be convinced to concede before the EC. And if he will continue to insist he won after. I don’t see why he should now. Let the process play out.

            1. Trump? Conceding? Instead of conceiting?

              STOP THE PRESSES!!! INSERT HOTTEST NEWEST NEWS FLASH!!!

              My most-senior inside contact at the White House has surreptitiously slipped me an advance copy of the lame-duck POTUS’s concession speech. Without further ado, here it is:

              Friends, non-foreigner-type True Americans, and all who Make America Great Again, lend me your ears! I come to bury Biden, not to praise him. Biden and his minions stole the elections, and we must dishonor that! To Make America Great Again, we must invent the most fantastic, fabulous, YUUUGEST BIGNESS EVAH SEEN, in the ways of truly factually fictitious, but Spiritually and Metaphorically True, NEW Republican ballots! Because I have directed My Generals and Scientists to research the current and past performance, efficacy, and patriotism of one-party states, versus multi-party states. As I have directed them to, My impartial, unbiased, data-driven council of My Generals and Scientists have determined that yea verily, one-party states work better! Therefore, we must all strive for the Glorious Day, when America becomes a one-party state, under the One True Party, the Republican Party! (Pause for applause).

              But for now, the courts have sided with Biden and his camel-toe, and Antifa, BLM, and all the Marxist terrorists. We must let the courts have it their way, with mayo on the side. I mean, with Mao Tse Tung on the side, but without the Proud Boys standing back and standing by. Thank you, Proud Boys, for having stood by me. Also, thank you, Steve Bannon, Vladimir Putin, Kim Ill Dung, and Pepe the Stolen-Intellectual-Property Frog. Pepe, watch out for Miss Piggy, she and her “pre-nuptial contracts” will clean your clock, just like Melania is set to clean mine soon! But I digest.

              So we can’t disrepute what the nasty courts have said, or there might be civil war. Sad! The courts aren’t very American these days! And if you don’t like what I just said? Well, I’m sorry that you feel that way!

              So congratulations to Biden for having stolen the elections! This is America, so we must properly honor the decisions of the courts, in a dishonorable way! Biden can come and live with us in the White House, per the wishes of the courts. He can pour our covfefe for us, for Steve Bannon, Pepe the Frog, and I, and Jill can make sandwiches for us. We promise to call him POTUS, and her, First Lady! POTUS of covfefe, and First Lady of sandwiches, that is! Hey Biden! Get yer butt over here! Pepe needs some covfefe!

              That setup will get us by for a little while! Meanwhile, we can schedule the NEW run-off elections, this time without any fraudulent so-called “Democratic” votes being allowed, and we can do this RIGHT the next time!

              Meanwhile, My sincerest congratulations to Joe Stalin-Biden, on being elected POTUS of pouring covfefe for Pepe!

              1. I’ll have to admit – even if it’s full of shit, your diatribe is pretty damn imaginative. ????

                1. It’s because sometimes the shit he eats has magic mushrooms growing in it.

              2. Sorry too many multi-syllable words. I bet tRump goes off script by line 2.

            2. I have no doubt Trump would concede once he has lost. The Associated Press doesn’t have the power to hand the election over to Biden.

              1. I think you are most likely right, but I have some doubt.

              2. Did Trump wait for the EC before declaring victory in 2016? Hell, he declared victory this year on Election night way before the results were anywhere near conclusive.

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        3. Yeah, how long did it take Al Gore?

          She conceded but she did not mean it. Trump’s Russians cost her the election!

          1. She also advised Biden not to concede no matter the outcome.

        4. Hillary conceded?

          Was that before or after she begged India to attack the US and install her?

    2. People have been voting through the mail in this country since the Civil War. This lawsuit is DOA.

      1. Those states with established mail-in ballots have in the past developed methods to ensure that the ballots are genuine. Several states in 2020 have just waived their hands, sent out a boatload of ballots to unverified addresses, and do not have a well-established procedure for checking signatures.
        And those signatures and postmarks are being checked with the watchers being kept out of any useful sightline. So, no verified fraud in a procedure that can’t be observed.
        That said, it doesn’t prove fraud. Doesn’t say there isn’t any either.

        1. People do not seem to realize that without a reliable verification process, a ballot is nothing more than a piece of paper. Too many people here are arguing that we should just implicitly trust a marking on a piece of paper even if we cannot confirm who made the mark, when it was made it, or whether the piece of paper was received in a timely manner.

          If this is the route we are going to go, we may as well have people mail out Post-It notes with the candidate of their choice written on them.

          1. “…we may as well have people mail out Post-It notes with the candidate of their choice written on them.”

            The opposing idealized vision of Trumpistas?

            If Government Almighty was doing ONLY the things that it MUST do, to keep peace and prosperity (property rights), there wouldn’t be all this distrust and fighting! Soon, Government Almighty will tell us all who we can marry, and mandate our breakfast menu each day! … But, ideologically blinded Trumpistas can NOT, or will NOT, see that!

            So OF COURSE we all get our panties in a twist over each and every vote, as we fight like weasels in heat, over Government Almighty power! I see the day coming, when, in order to vote, I have to give DNA samples (to prove my ID) to one each representative of the Democrat Party, the “R” Party, and the “L”, “G”, and “C” Parties, each for their independent verification. And then there will be armies of bureaucrats to oversee and record each and every DNA test, yada-yada.

            Instead of fighting the every-growing Government Almighty nit-picking, micro-managing powers, the right-wing nut jobs are just gonna keep right on feeding this here beast that I have just described above! Here comes the death of USA democracy!

            1. Your post is incomprehensible garbage.

            2. You are predictably stupid in every comment you post. He is making a valid point that there is no chain of custody you amazingly stupid fool?

              1. Hey, do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!

                So I discussed your awesome talents with some dear personal friends on the Reason staff… Accordingly…

                Reason staff has asked me to convey the following message to you:

                Hi Fantastically Talented Author:

                Obviously, you are a silver-tongued orator, and you also know how to translate your spectacular talents to the written word! We at Reason have need for writers like you, who have near-magical persuasive powers, without having to write at great, tedious length, or resorting to boring facts and citations.

                At Reason, we pay above-market-band salaries to permanent staff, or above-market-band per-word-based fees to freelancers, at your choice. To both permanent staff, and to free-lancers, we provide excellent health, dental, and vision benefits. We also provide FREE unlimited access to nubile young groupies, although we do firmly stipulate that persuasion, not coercion, MUST be applied when taking advantage of said nubile young groupies.

                Please send your resume, and another sample of your writings, along with your salary or fee demands, to ReasonNeedsUtterlyBrilliantlyPersuasiveWriters@Reason.com .

                Thank You! -Reason Staff

                1. Haha I made fun of the shit-eater’s copypasta Tim the enchanters posts, and in another display of his Tourette’s he can’t help but post it shortly after.

                    1. DRUMPF!!!

          2. Totally agree. To be believable, election officials must take measures to ensure that all voters are legally verified and registered. In addition, voting must be by secret ballot only. Mass mailing of ballots does not guarantee secrecy and is totally susceptible to bribery and intimidation when ballots are marked, even if the vote is technically legitimate. Hell, Saddam Hussein won 100% of the votes in his elections, since it was not by secret ballot. Those who opposed him were quickly taken to the chipper shredder. This election was fraudulant from the get-go and Biden will always be an illegitimate President to me and 71 million other Americans,

        2. Instead of hand waving that “several” states changed their procedure, please list those states and what part of the procedure they waved.
          Interesting how suddenly we need verification by a tRump supporter, when everything tRump does needs to be taken at face value. Billionaire indeed.

          1. Specifically, Pennsylvania waved its hand and made ballots that were illegal, according to the existing law, as legal.
            The law, as passed by the method the Constitution requires, says only ballots received by 8:00 pm on election day could be counted.
            The governor, of the LieCheatSteal party gave ballots three extra days and the LieCheatSteal dominated PA SC approved of it, despite it being unconstitutional.
            That’s why the SCOTUS required all of the votes, after the legal cut-off be sequestered and not counted, but, the LieCheatSteal party’s SecState coulnd’t verify that this had been done.

      2. Read the lawsuit dummy. It is heavily centered on equal protection claims. Most areas with mail in voting have similar protections as to in person voting such as signature verification. Pa never rescinded it for in person but did for mail voting as an example.

        Arguing from ignorance seems to be your forte.

        1. Even if it were somehow determined to be a legitimate claim (which it won’t), why would the Trump campaign have standing? It seems like if someone’s equal protection was violated, it was the voters and not the Trump campaign. So the voters would have to bring the suit, which, guess what, they won’t. Then, should they bring a suit and prevail, what makes you think the remedy would be to toss out the mail-in votes? That’s like saying if black people sued for being discriminated against in voting registration, the remedy is to toss out white people’s voting registrations.

          This lawsuit makes no sense and is fucking retarded.

          1. This lawsuit makes no sense and is fucking retarded.

            That’s the thing with virtually all of the arguments I’ve seen from Trumpists about alleged voting irregularities — even if you accept the factual allegations 100%, there’s no way it logically reaches a conclusion that is likely to change the outcome of the overall election, let alone that any court is likely to find acceptable from a remedy standpoint.

            1. They want to discredit our electoral process. That’s pretty much the goal of populists. To destroy trusted institutions and break down the fabric of society allowing for an insurrection that cannot be opposed. It’s coming from the far left and the far right in this country.

              1. And fucking morons like you conveniently forget the Russia hoax and Granny Winebox Hil claiming the 2016 result was stolen from her. So piss off you mendacious, dead thread-fucking pile of dog Biden.

          2. why would the Trump campaign have standing?

            lol – Are you seriously asking why a candidate to office would have standing in a lawsuit based upon how votes were gathered and tabulated for that office?

      3. Trump himself voted by mail. Wait until that comes up in the arguments.

        1. Trump requested an absentee ballot, which is fundamentally different than a mail in ballot. But you already know there’s a difference, don’t you?

          1. Pennsylvania sent out mail-in ballot APPLICATIONS, which means anyone who mailed in their vote had to request a mail-in ballot. EXACTLY the same thing as Trump’s Florida absentee ballot.

            1. Please don’t let facts cloud the argument. tRump has witnesses that swear they’ve seen bigfoot.

            2. Were those applications something that the legislature instituted, or done only at the behest of the governor?
              If ordered by the governor, that would make those applied-for ballots illegal according to the COTUS.

      4. Nope. Another stupid statement by Chip.

    3. As I have advised the Whitehouse, if they do not establish a single website that provides an accurate status of relevant activity, that every Citizen becomes familiar with, the quest is doomed. So I cannot comment on the specific wording of the suit, because no interested party has bothered to make it accessible to me. Mmy bad: I have a life. Never unwilling to comment, ignorance be damned, I believe the intent of this suit is to force the election to be in accordance with the legislative body’s wording. If that would invalidate one or all of any votes cast is not relevant to the rule of law. Don’t confuse me with the facts!

    4. I’m shocked that this is the first comment.

    5. Still broken? You got your idol biden in the lead. You should be happy.

      1. Biden an idol? Really, from a tRump worshiper? tRump the liar, the cheat, the draft-dodger. His worshipers have to make excuses after excuses and still…. You cannot polish a turd.

        1. Draft dodger, liar, cheat. You’re confused. All those words provably define Biden.

    6. It doesn’t take widespread voter fraud in swing states to alter election results. Just 1 – 2 % swing in the votes will do the trick. No need to worry about solid Republican or Democrat states.

    7. Poor unreason and its Democrat sympathizers dont like the Constitution nor read it.

      Article I, section 4 gives the power to change election laws to state legislatures and congress NOT governors.

      Mailin ballots in many states were never authorized by state legislatures, there fore they are ALL illegal ballots and should not be counted. Republican and democrat ballots should all be tossed.

      Mad that your mailin ballot got tossed? You should be because democrats are liars and lied to Americans who should voted in person.

      1. Don’t know what hypothetical state you are thinking goes of, but in Pennsylvania all election changes we made by the legislature.

        1. Well, that’s just an outright lie.
          But you are clearly a backer of the LieCheatSteal party, formerly known as the democrats.

    8. How is this purported equal protection claim timely? There was ample time to litigate it before the election, where hundreds of thousands of presumptively lawful mail-in ballots were cast. It seems to me the doctrine of laches would bar this belated claim.

    9. The election integrity standards in Ivory Coast, Africa are stronger than Pennsylvania’s. This is proven by the fact that at least Ivory Coast allows UN observers during vote counting.

      Never mind the fact that 80% of EU nations have banned PA’s election standards due to massive fraud in the 1970’s. But Democrat’s aren’t students of history (or geography) so I wouldn’t expect them to realize that.

      The Banana Republic!

      1. LOL at the Trumpettes who can’t even keep the narratives their being fed straight:
        “International election experts invited by the Trump administration to observe the U.S. election last week issued a preliminary report that found no evidence of the widespread fraud alleged by President Trump.”

        https://news.yahoo.com/presidential-election-was-honest-report-international-observers-invited-by-the-trump-administration-193613745.html

        1. LOL, they can’t “invite” international observers to all polling places. They were not observing the shady, hard left districts or polling places; only the honest, Republican controlled ones, and only Democrat ones that were already under heavy scrutiny.

          How many times did YOU vote this election? Be honest, liberal. I know that doesn’t come easily to you.

          1. Honest Republican districts like “…Members of the OAS team were sent to battleground states such as Michigan”. Where they lost, but are crying over. So literally EVERYTHING you’ve said is objectively false, and all you’ve got is poo flinging and name calling like your Orange God.

            You fuckers can’t even read enough to keep your propaganda talking points straight.

            1. This is an example of lefty willful ignorance. He doesn’t even read my comment, and just repeats his own faulty point. Junyo can only talk in circles…

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    12. “The fact that Trump didn’t win”

      This is even more clever the 800th time you said it.

      Good thing you don’t have any other arguments.

  2. “runs afoul of the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution”

    We have a lot of laws that do that – including the progressive inbcome tax and laws that spell-out special protection for specified (minority) groups.

    1. Or certain government employees being immune from prosecution when they break the law.

      1. Some animals are more equal than others.

    2. Boehm is a moron. Article I, section 4 covers unconstitutional election law changes that only state legislatures and congress can make. Not governors or election boards because of the kungflu scheme.

      1. All 2020 changes to Pennsylvania’s election laws were made by its legislature.

        1. I know what Uncle Goebels said about lies, but it doesn’t make what you are saying anything but a big, fat one.

        2. Nope. Sorry buddy.

          This isn’t the only lawsuit in PA. The earlier one – the one Boehm references – was the one where SCOTUS mandates that all ballots coming in after 8PM be segregated? Yeah, that was because the *state supreme court* made a change to the election laws (allowing ballots to be accepted after the polls closed) and not the state legislature.

          SCOTUS says – so far – that the state SC doesn’t have the authority under the Constitution to override explicit election law.

        3. “All 2020 changes to Pennsylvania’s election laws were made by its legislature.”

          NO, partisan Democrats on the PA Supreme Court changed many election laws that had been enacted by PA’s General Assembly, which is one of the reasons Trump has sued.

  3. I was right about one thing: Mail-in voting was designed to create a confusing mess so that if Biden lost, he’d be able to claim the confusing mess he and his party pushed as a source of fraud and shenanigans.

    There have been blatantly unconstitutional orders surrounding the voting process– without question. For instance, the constitution says that the rules and limits on voting are to be set by state legislatures. But that’s not what happened. Unaccountable elections officials randomly changed the rules and laws outside of the legislative process claiming “covid” as the justification.

    If I were on the Trump legal team, I’d definitely be pushing the constitutional angle anywhere I could.

    In addition, as one person noted in a thread where Benford’s Law was showing wild statistical anomalies in the Biden vote totals, that Trump should be spending his energy hiring statisticians and fraud investigators, and less money hiring expensive lawyers.

    I don’t have strong feelings about that either way, but it’s at least an interesting take– given some of the shady shit I’ve seen in regards to Biden vote totals.

    I’m only recently familiar with Benford’s law, so I won’t speak to it with any feeling of great confidence. But I do think some of the histograms showing the wild anomalies in Biden vote totals vs Trump vote totals is at least worth looking further into.

    1. It’s also a good reminder to note that Biden was instructed by educated, stately people to ‘not concede the election under any and all circumstances’. I suspect the reason was is they were not confident in Biden’s victory (who would be if you believed your lying eyes) and were prepared to fight exactly this fight. The fact that Trump is fighting it doesn’t concern me all that much. This fight was going to be fought, and Biden’s election team was already tooled up to fight it.

      1. Donald trump was holding big rallies, telling people not to worry about covid, and to go to the polls on election day. Biden was holding events where people didn’t get out of heir car, talking about a dark winter, and encouraging people to vote by mail……. Biden waited to concede, because what we saw happen is common fucking sense to anyone with half a brain……

        1. Do you even realize that the first and second halves of that garbled pile of shit have literally no connection to each other? Seriously shreek, get some fucking sleep, you’re losing it. You’re incredibly stupid even at your best, but you’re entering trunalimunumaprzure territory now.

          1. if you can’t understand how knowing your supporters voted more by mail is connected to deciding to wait for the mail in ballots to be counted…. you are a moron.

    2. Just a note on statistics and outlier testing. Just because you show a datapoint is a outlier does not you get to discard it. Same here with Benford’s law. You need to show some evidence that anomalies are not just the way the data is distributed.

      1. I agree, because even I don’t believe that sticking Benford’s law on the first layer of vote tallies and showing an anomaly is mic-drop proof of fraud. But several forensic accountants have done some work (and not just with Biden’s vote totals, but other things such as COVID deaths) and will tell you, if they see such anomalies, this is cause for much deeper investigation because “data minipulation” is likely.

        The thing that bugs me about this is the hypcorisy from the media. If this situation were 180 degrees reversed, NPR would have night after night of stately forensic accountants explaining in mathematical detail why Trump’s numbers were manipulated and the courts should be looking more deeply.

        1. Yeah, people were ready to call a Trump win a “coup”. They hypocrisy really is something. I was kind of looking forward to that if Trump won. But only kind of. It’s all pretty disgusting. Can’t we just try 4 years without a president?

        2. I still haven’t heard any kind of explanation of why ballots, from within the very cities doing the counting, come in at the end of, or many times after, election day.
          Their mail-route never left the area, yet all the “outlying” area’s ballots were the first ones counted.
          It always seems to be the heavily LieCheatSteal party’s strongholds that are counted last – and with just enough votes to “win”.

        3. The last part is what bothers me.

          Why don’t they?

          If there are easy explanations for why the anomalies aren’t fraud – people are applying Benford’s law wrong, if you look at Trump’s numbers you see the same shit in his votes, etc – then why aren’t they dragging these people in front of the camera to calm everyone down?

      2. The law was violated in multiple independent election areas. It wasn’t just one county where it was. Try again.

      3. That’s fine. I think everyone – even the Trump partisans – agree with that.

        The issue is that the Biden supporters just scream ‘unverified!’ and expect people to walk away.

        There are anomalies, we want the anomalies investigated to see if they’re fraud. They just scream that there’s no proof. If we had proof we wouldn’t need an investigation.

        Investigations are for finding out.

    3. Mail in voting has been around for at least a century. That you assert it was invented by Biden to cheat at the election just shows how far out of reality you are.

      1. Ole Diane has had a few too many knocks to the head.

      2. Mail-in voting has not been around for at least a century in anywhere near the scope that it was implemented this year. Absentee ballots (an entirely different process) has been around for a very long time.

        1. Mail in voting is exactly the same process as absentee voting. Same ballots, same envelopes. The only difference is that because of the pandemic one doesn’t need to explicitly check a box on the registration form.

          The fact that Trump lost is not evidence of fraud. Get back into reality.

          1. No it’s not. Absentee voting is requested by the voter. mail-in ballots are distrubted by voting rolls which are notoriously outdated and flawed, and then mailed blind.

            To wit:

            To get an absentee ballot, a registered voter must request one through their state government, which accepts or rejects the application. When someone is approved to vote absentee, election officials mail the voter an absentee ballot, which they complete and sign, and return by mail or, under certain circumstances, fax. Officials can reject absentee ballots if they are improperly filled out, and voters face steep penalties if they falsify any information.

            […]

            Mail-in voting

            Vote-by-Mail (VBM) is the process of sending every registered voter a ballot without a request.

            Five states—Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Utah, and Hawaii—already conduct their elections through a mail-in process that’s often referred to as all-mail voting. Registered voters in these states automatically receive a mail ballot, which is sent to their address before Election Day and mailed back by the voter or deposited at a voting location or secure dropbox by a certain time on Election Day.

            Nuanced language aside, the essential takeaway here is not grammatical, but substantive: states with only absentee voting in place will face additional hurdles to the implementation of vote-by-mail that traditionally VBM states will not.

            States without extensive vote-by-mail infrastructure already in place are not well-equipped for an immediate transition to all vote-by-mail due to the coronavirus. According to a BPC review of federal data on voting by mail and absentee voting, 34 states had fewer than 15% of their ballots cast by mail during the 2018 federal election.

            Facilitating a well-orchestrated vote-by-mail election is the equivalent of a logistical nightmare. And with a global pandemic sweeping the country, this logistical nightmare can only get worse.

            It’s been stated many times that the states which don’t have mail-in voting regimens that have been ironed out over many years have outdated voter rolls, dead people still registered etc. Because the mail-in voting regimen was forced on the entire country, that being 45 states, were not prepared to clean up their process in time for this election.

            1. This has been explained repeatedly to these idiots. Evidently they don’t have a high enough IQ to understand the difference. Or they’re just lying.

              1. Notice the slimy cunt disappears every time this is posted, and then magically pops in a new thread with the same old talking point?

                1. Most of the lefties here do that.

            2. Technically, they were already supposed to have had those rolls cleaned up; It was part of Motor Voter: The Democrats got registration at the DMV, and the Republicans got states being legally obligated to keep their voter rolls up to date.

              But the Democrats saw to it that part was never enforced. And Republicans stupidly didn’t fix that when they were in power.

              1. Kinda like immigration reform. I’m noticing a pattern.

              2. Trump tried and the LieCheatSteal party officials did everything they could to stop the rolls from being cleaned up.
                They have this lying, cheating, stealing down to a science and aren’t going to let a silly thing like accurate voter rolls get in the way.

            3. Colorado still requires registration/verification/validation for ballots. It’s easier for homeowners, though. Mine stays set but they still send out reminders to verify and ensure all is well. For months. And it took one day from the notice of receipt for counting and notice of acceptance.

          2. No, it’s not and, while you are definitely stupid, you’re just lying on this point.

          3. >>Mail in voting is exactly the same process as absentee voting.

            right there is when your credibility is gone.

        2. Absentee ballots have a rigorous validation process. If PA, or other states, are just accepting mail-in ballot without a legitimate validation process, a process approved by the state legislature, this could get over-turned and all these ballots thrown out.

        3. ‘Absentee ballots (an entirely different process) has been around for a very long time.’

          any difference between absentee ballots and mail in ballots is merely semantic; 16 states require that an absentee present evidence of disability for in person voting, 29 states do not…and five practice all mail in balloting and have done so for a number of election cycles…

          so for two thirds of this country, there is no difference whatsoever between no excuse absentee and mail in voting…

          1. I don’t know about that. Seems like mailing ballots to all registered voters, even if they didn’t request it, and even if they are dead, makes it different.

        4. States with existing, permanent automatic mail-in ballot systems

          Five states already had universal mail in voting before this year.

          1. Which they implemented over a period of years after passing laws or referrenda to effectuate the change. No, using executive orders and election commission rulemaking to mail out ballots to everyone on a dirty voter roll in contravention of state and federal law and then getting 107% turnout is not the same as Oregon using the process legally enacted by their state legislature 25 years ago.

        5. It was explicitly banned in 80% of the European Union, especially France in ~1975 due to massive fraud. Where do you think Democrats got the idea to do it this way? 😉

      3. That’s not the point dumbfuck.

    4. In addition, as one person noted in a thread where Benford’s Law was showing wild statistical anomalies in the Biden vote totals, that Trump should be spending his energy hiring statisticians and fraud investigators, and less money hiring expensive lawyers.

      I’m afraid this analytical approach, which may yield legitimate, compelling evidence of fraud, requires too much of the people’s attention span to be effective. What’s needed is a real smoking gun. Like Monica Lewinsky’s dress, the kind of evidence the court of public opinion understands. At the very least It’s also going to require that Trump and the Republicans give the fraud a public face. Proving that groups of unnamed propeller heads have indeed manipulated vote counts isn’t going to cut it. They have to go big, and indict major players in the Democrat’s organization, or go home. And Trump is the only major Republican with enough spine to do it, if it can even be done at all.

    5. The Benford’s Law argument is (and was) easily debunked. It was just wrong.

      1. Then surely you can actually walk us through the arguments against it or at least cite to someone else who has.

        1. I did on another post. Basically the analysis was based on precinct-by-precinct data, and by design all the precincts have about the same number of voters. Benford’s Law needs input data that spans a few orders of magnitude to work. Thus the analysis will fail.

          1. Except all vote totals but Biden’s were consistent with it…

            1. I did not download and analyze all the data, just the ones that they said did not come out right. After I realized it was bunk I did not waste my time with the rest.

            2. He just explained to you why it isn’t valid to use Benford’s Law to analyze precinct data when the precincts are all of similar size, and you blow right past that and argue that it isn’t valid because you like the results you got. This is the mathematical equivalent of holding your breath until you turn blue to get your mommy to buy you an ice cream.

              1. It’s an inconvenient inconsistency that you are unable to explain, so you attempt to cover it up because someone else said that method of analysis may not apply.

                Nonetheless, Biden’s tally is part of a set of vote tallies. The vote tallies all follow a statistically significant distribution – EXCEPT BIDEN’S.
                It’s called a red flag, white nitwit.

              2. Benford’s Law is commonly used for electoral fraud detection. It’s perfectly valid, but Molly is trying to explain away the fraud signals. If you did even a basic google search for Benford’s Law you would realize that, but it’s willful ignorance on your part.

          2. Yeah I saw your other post and your math was wrong.

      2. So when the continue to use it against authoritarian countries we can jgnore it? Even the idiot WK had links saying it was useful for detecting fraud, just not exacting proof.

        1. Shreek just skimmed White Knight’s posts and paraphrased what he thought the point was. He does this frequently because he’s incredibly stupid. Unfortunately for him, he tends to cop his arguments off of equally stupid people like White Knight. So you get compounded stupidity.

        2. You can always count on JesseAz to misrepresent things. I posted links that plainly refute the idea that Benford’s Law is valid when applied to voting data.

    6. Democrats hoped Trump and his supporters would concede to biden.

      Aint happening.

      Trump vs biden will be a resounding defeat for democrats.

      1. Maybe, maybe not. The Democrats have certainly been up to their usual tricks in this election, but it remains to be seen whether they were blatant enough that a court can’t pretend they didn’t do it.

        -jcr

    7. If I were on the Trump legal team, I’d definitely be pushing the constitutional angle anywhere I could.

      I concur. Trump has no duty to just bend over and take it in the ass the way that Nixon did in 1960. He has every right to litigate over every case of fraud that he hears about. One could even argue that he has a duty to do so.

      As I’ve said before, if Joe were an honest man with a clear conscience, he’d be the loudest voice in the country demanding a full investigation to clear his name. The fact that he’s not doing so shows me that he knows his handlers are trying to steal the election for him.

      -jcr

      1. Joe may not even be aware anything’s going on, he just stands where they tell him to stand and reads whatever shows up on the teleprompter.

  4. Power don’t come from a badge or a gun. Power comes from lying. Lying big and gettin’ the whole damn world to play along with you. Once you’ve got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain’t true, you’ve got ’em by the balls.

    1. Shouldn’t you be murdering Biden voters?

      1. You’ve started the lists for your dear leader right? Cnn needs help on their list.

    2. How firm is Trump’s grip?

      1. On the back of Nardz’s head?

        1. Once you’ve got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain’t true, you’ve got ’em by the balls.

    3. Power don’t come from a badge or a gun.

      Ice Cube agrees.

      1. Power comes from batteries!

    4. Lol at the left simping eunuchs intent to prove that their resentful, petty feelz matter a million times more to them than their claimed values.

    5. I hope this is peak irony. I don’t know how much more is possible.

      1. You mean you clamoring to stop counting votes before the tallies are completed or certified after you spent 4 years chasing Russian collusion conspiracy theories thinking you were somehow going to get Clinton enthroned? Lmfao

        1. The only people trying to stop votes from counting are trumpies. “Russia” has 1500 some pages of evidence recorded, indictments, convictions, and confessions. You need to change your media diet.

          1. Russia has exactly dick squat showing they in any way actually turned the election you lying piece of shit.

  5. https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1326230100828807168?s=19

    Statistically improbable results. Totally legit, we swear.
    [This claim about election fraud is disputed]

      1. If we created some models then they would believe. Don’t need data if you manipulate models.

        1. “Don’t need data if you manipulate models.”

          Hello, global warming, I mean, climate change. It’s still “climate change, or has it evolved to “catastrophic near future?”

      2. You can only call it “science” if it agrees with pre-defined Democrat narratives.

  6. I sounds like we are making progress. We have moved away from the fraud to now the process was legitimate but unfair. Wondering if there is an end in site?

    1. Yes, it’s called the meeting of the Electoral College on December 14.

      1. So.. it’s NOT “President-Elect Biden”? Damn, that’s gonna be a lot of fact-check-banned twitter posts.

        1. As far as I can tell, everyone except the New York Times has quietly dropped the President Elect bit.

          1. Biden hasn’t dropped it.

            https://buildbackbetter.com/

            1. Biden probably forgot about the EC entirely and assumes the media decides.

            2. You used to live in Portland Chuck?
              Unfortunately we got a lot of Mormons here. When they knock on my door I tell them they have 5 seconds to get their pervert worshipping asses off my property.

              Burn in hellyou piece of shit coward!

              1. You’re going to wind up like Garrett Foster, and I only hope I’m the one on the other end of the smoking barrel.

              2. “I tell them they have 5 seconds to get their pervert worshipping asses off my property.”

                What, you don’t want to be a god after you die? Just because the underwear is magic does not mean one should not change their draws.

  7. Are we a nation of laws? Do governors get to decree whatever they like?

    1. *looks outside at shuttered businesses and people wearing masks*

      Not anymore, and yup.

      1. Luckily you got the one guy not imposing lockdowns out. Saved us all from authoritarian impulses by getting biden in. Good work.

        1. He was also rabidly arguing in favor of lockdowns this entire year, but he’ll conveniently forget that and tell anyone who remembers it that they are lying.

          1. Arguing for not the same as imposing.

  8. The window for an audit of PA’s ballots is closing. For any legal challenge to be successful, there has to be something there. Produce fraudulent ballots, is what I would tell POTUS Trump’s legal team; or obtain a court ruling to audit the most suspicious voting districts or precincts. If there is fraud, that gives the Legislature time to cure it, or decide to appoint their own electors.

    The clock is ticking.

    1. I’m sure Trump legal team is aware of the deadlines.

    2. What makes a ballot fraudulent?
      Is it when it is counted, through means other than the ones set down in the law?
      By that definition, the vast majority of mail-in and absentee ballots are fraudulent, because, in several “swing” states, they were counted while keeping the legally required observers away from being able to do what the laws says they must.
      It doesn’t require that a ballot has an obvious erasure and re-marking, to make it fraudulent.
      The LieCheatSteal party is more slick than that.

  9. What I said yesterday is coming to fruition.

    For Trump to win this election he has to argue that tens of thousands of voters, who acted in good faith by mailing in their ballots according to what they thought was a legal method of voting, should be ignored. Whether there is a legal basis or not is irrelevant in the long run. Trump is literally arguing that winning and playing by the rules is more important than the intent of voters. He’s willing to burn the Republican Party to the ground for 4 more years of power.

    If there were a time to decide whether votes should or shouldn’t be counted it has to be before the election. The fact is people voted through a method they were told was legal and legitimate. To argue to throw those ballots out now is arguing to ignore the will of the people.

    1. He is really burning the GOP down. What this will do is make many die-hard GOP voters believe that the system is rigged against them and they will not bother voting in the future.

      1. The system absolutely is rigged.

        We will just seek other….less pleasant avenues towards getting our grievances addressed.

        The Tea Party was exceedingly polite and was lambasted by the media and the Left.
        Trump was less polite than the TP.
        Next…well, you will long for Trump…

        1. If the system is so rigged, how did Trump win in 2016?

          1. they didn’t get their mail-in-plan in for 2016

          2. Trump won in 2016, because the LieCheatSteal party didn’t think they needed to put their election fraud machine into gear with the sure-winner of HiLIARy, versus the guy the media hyped into the nomination, with the intent of him being the easiest to defeat.
            The media has been pissed ever since and is still pissed that their scheme backfired on them.

        2. Go after fraud, fine. If you can find enough cases in a court of law to overturn the election, then that’s the way the system is supposed to work.

          This lawsuit argues that tens of thousands of votes should be thrown out because of a legal technicality. That the will of the voter should be ignored.

          I sure wouldn’t want to run for reelection in a party willing to make that claim.

          1. If the law is violated, then the ballot isn’t legal.

            Whose fault is it? The idiots that set up the system. Sorry if your vote is not legal due to the actions of others, but that is something you need to take up with those others.

            1. That’s a valid position. It’s also a politically losing position.

              Let’s see how many Republicans are willing to stand by Trump on these actions.

              1. So we should let democrats lie to their voters about valid ballots and then count those illegal ballots because whoopsies. Got it.

                1. It would be unfair to throw out illegal ballots, Jesse. Geez, don’t you care about the WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

                  1. You are wasting your time trying to appeal to people who had the temerity to callously disregard Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s LAST DYING WISH!

          2. “This lawsuit argues that tens of thousands of votes should be thrown out because of a legal technicality.”

            Underage voting is a legal technicality. Non-citizens not being permitted to vote is also a legal technicality. What you are saying, in effect, is that the right to vote is unlimited and universal and should be treated that way even if there are rules to the contrary.

            Go fuck yourself.

            1. Those technicalities affect voter actions before their ballots are cast. We don’t change the voting age or the citizenship after the election has already happened.

              The fact is that the people who mailed in their ballots were told they would be counted. Had they known that this was a legally dubious way to cast their votes I’d guess that most of them would have went to the polls with the rest of us. Trump is arguing to change what they thought the rules were after the fact just so you can cling on to power.

              1. Trump is not arguing that the rules should be changed. Trump and his legal team are arguing that the rules were never changed in the first place. That is a major difference, and it matters.

                Otherwise, every ultra vires act of government can be excused on the ground that someone, somewhere relied on it. That is not how our legal system works.

                1. As he said, it’s a valid argument, but a political loser.

                  1. I do not see how or why it is a political loser.

                    1. Well, maybe it isn’t. But I suspect that a lot of people being told that their votes didn’t count because the election officials fucked it up won’t go over well.

              2. Democrats changed the rules after the economy had started. Why the dishonesty?

                1. The voting* stupid phone

              3. Leo, it’s not like the unlawfulness of these changed voter laws wasn’t made public.
                Lawsuits were filed and, in some cases the new protocols were overturned, but even if they weren’t, an educated electorate had been informed that those mail-in ballots could be ruled illegal.
                That those ballots have been lumped in with the ones, created after the fact and “found” by the tens of thousands in just the right number to bring about an after-the-deadline “win”, is a shame.
                Blame it on the LieCheatSteal party, whose motto is “by any means necessary”.

            2. i approve this message

        3. Oh look. Another Trumpy with delusions and violent fantasies. Quite a trend from our totally not nazis at all compatriots.

          1. What violent fantasies? Fucking retard.

            1. He’s just going to make it up and then argue from that position. Then it will be on you to prove him wrong. Hmm…that sounds remarkably like the electoral process these days!

          2. If delusions and violent fantasies make you a Nazi, then Ted Wheeler’s apartnment is the fucking Reichstag.

          3. You defend riots shit for brains.

          4. Hey cytotoxic, tell us again how the government should strafe Republicans with Apache attack helicopters. You know, since you’re totally a pacifist and certainly not a fascist.

            1. Oh by the way, since the lying cunt is going to now deny that he said it, here’s the link

              1. Damn. I always knew DOL was a dishonest piece of shit, now I know he’s a violent one too.

                My previous assessment about him being a sociopath is confirmed.

              2. When i pop your comment fantasy bubble with reality, that is the same as having violent fantasies or making threats? Go ahead and have your hillbilly insurrection, but you are going to get shredded. Not sorry.

                And save the hand wringing. Your fellow cult members make threats and violent fantasies every day, and not a word from any of you traitors. Seriously, Nardz made several threats over the last few days, and not a one of you objected.

                1. Dude you’re a fucking sociopath. I hope your local law enforcement and your neighbors are keeping an eye on you.

                  Weren’t you in the National Guard? Did you get a chance to slaughter some civilians overseas, and the memory excites you?

                  1. He responded to a challenge by saying he’d call Daddy Gov to fight for him.
                    Isn’t that totes libertarian?

                    1. If DOL claimed to be a libertarian he was lying. But that’s what he does.

      2. They won’t stop voting, they will just start voting 100’s of times instead of only once since that’s how elections are conducted now.

    2. For Trump to win this election he has to argue that tens of thousands of voters, who acted in good faith by mailing in their ballots according to what they thought was a legal method of voting, should be ignored. Whether there is a legal basis or not is irrelevant in the long run. Trump is literally arguing that winning and playing by the rules is more important than the intent of voters.

      While this is true from an emotional appeal standpoint, that’s sort of like saying that discarding votes from people who aren’t eligible to vote shouldn’t be discarded.

      If you’re going to have rules, then if you don’t stick to them, then there are no rules.

      If there were a time to decide whether votes should or shouldn’t be counted it has to be before the election. The fact is people voted through a method they were told was legal and legitimate. To argue to throw those ballots out now is arguing to ignore the will of the people.

      Which sounds like a really clever way to game an election– create unconstitutional rules and wink and nudge people, telling them they can vote in a way which the rules don’t support, then when it’s ruled that the rules were broken, arm them with pitchforks and table legs and screech that their intent was violated!

      I hear what you’re saying– if those votes were cast in good faith. But if there were tens of thousands of good-faith votes that are counted because local elections officials broke the law and told their people… let’s be honest… shit that wasn’t true, then we need to hold some local elections officials seriously accountable.

      1. then we need to hold some local elections officials seriously accountable.

        Yes. But I can’t see how you can argue that we should ignore the will of the people because/if they were duped by their officials.

        And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that it isn’t a legitimate, legal strategy. I’m saying that making this claim, to ignore the intent of good-faith voters, is a politically dangerous decision for anybody on the Republican side that endorses it.

        1. to ignore the intent of good-faith voters, is a politically dangerous decision for anybody on the Republican side that endorses it.

          I can’t deny that. Al Gore attempted to do that in 2000 for overseas military ballots.

          If on a long shot, Trump is able to discard 10s of thousands of votes and it swings the election in his favor, I don’t know what the socio-political effect of that will be. But… BUT, if the courts rule that these last-minute rule changes by unaccountable officials were unconsitutional, then everything we warned about mail-in ballots was right: It was going to create chaos.

        2. Oh, and I feel it’s also important to remind people… that the DNC who pushed mail-in ballots– then began to fear ballot shenanigans told their voters to hand-carry their ballots to elections officials, rather than stick them in the mail. Did THAT cause any ballots to arrive late, w/o postmark etc?

          It’s like the DNC poisoned the party punchbowl and is now complaining that everyone is sick.

          1. It’s like the DNC poisoned the party punchbowl and is now complaining that everyone is sick.

            And here’s Leo to carry their water for them. Gee, that’s 10 years in a row!

        3. Isn’t the invalidation on the officials that duped the voters? And wouldn’t it be prudent to work to ensure that such a thing never happens again by, for example, obeying election laws in the first place?

          1. The entire reliance argument is a giant load of shit. The real argument that this concocted “reliance” reasoning is intended to disguise is “all mail ballots are valid, no matter what.”

            That’s it.

            Idiots like Leo argue that ballots invariably represent the will of the people, even if there is ZERO fucking evidence that any particular ballots was actually filled out by a person permitted to vote under the law. They are simply presuming validity, in all cases …. because its the “will of the people” …. even if there is no process to verify that any single ballot is the will of a single eligible voter.

            It’s a ridiculous fucking lie.

            1. Idiots like Leo argue that ballots invariably represent the will of the people
              I don’t think that is what he is arguing. It is reasonable to assume that many and probably most mailed ballots were legitimately filled in by the people they were intended for. Those do represent the will of the people.
              I don’t necessarily think that that is a good enough reason not to throw them out if they were not legal. But I very much doubt that would happen, and if it did, the outrage of those voters would be very understandable. Though of course, it should be directed at the election officials who fucked it up.

              1. Leo’s argument is that ballots should not be invalidated, even if they do not comply with the lawful verification procedures, because some government bureaucrat incorrectly and without proper authority (assuming, of course, the courts agrees it was incorrect and without authority) assured people that no verification procedures were required.

                Further, I do not think it is reasonable to assume anything about any ballot because a ballot is just a piece of paper and is not inherently reliable by virtue of being a ballot, or by virtue of the fact that one believes they are likely to be valid, or by virtue of the opinions that people are generally good natured.

                None of that matters.

                Each ballot stands or falls on its own, and is not in any measure bolstered by the existence of good natured voters, or other ballots.

                1. dont some obvious murderers get off because of technicalities?
                  thats what i learned from tv and the movies

                  1. And, further to that point, consider the rigors of admitting any non-testimonial evidence in any court of law.

                    Unverified, unsigned, and undated documents do not make it into the record — quite rightly — because a piece of paper without any verifying information on its face is just a piece of paper. It may as well have nothing written on it all.

                    I think it is patently absurd that, at some point during this legal dispute, a tribunal of judges will be placed in the position of assessing the validity of ballots that would never in a million years be admissible as evidence in a court of law.

    3. “Whether there is a legal basis or not is irrelevant in the long run.”

      Good to hear that you do not actually care about what the law does, or does not, permit.

      “Trump is literally arguing that winning and playing by the rules is more important than the intent of voters.”

      Because the intent of the voters is in no way impacted or distorted by fucking with the rules.

      1. Good to hear that you do not actually care about what the law does, or does not, permit.

        You’re taking my comment out of context. I said Trump is acting within his legal means, I’m not doubting that.

        My argument against this action is totally political in nature. It’s a long-term losing strategy for the Republican Party to be the party willing to throw out good-faith votes simply to maintain their power.

        1. I quote you again:

          “Whether there is a legal basis or not is irrelevant in the long run.”

          That is all that is relevant because we are a nation of laws. Laws that one does not get to simply ignore, or change, on a whim because it is politically expedient.

          1. Well, that’s how it should be. Doesn’t seem to apply to the political class or their minions.

        2. Biden/Harris are bumbling idiots. The best political strategy for Republicans is to let them fail. That just happens not to be very good for the country.

    4. If voter intent was all that mattered, we could hold elections by polling. The whole point of elections is to have a legally well defined process. Votes that violate that process should not be counted.

      Voters were told that if they vote by mail, they should get in their ballots a week ahead of the deadline to be certain.

    5. ” To argue to throw those ballots out now is arguing to ignore the will of the people and the will of the US Constitution.” FTFY

      FFS who cares about the will of a people too afraid to get their ass to the polls? They obviously won’t put up much resistance and maybe next time they will make a little more effort and show greater consideration toward their fellow citizens.

      1. ^

        If voting was a priority to you, go vote in person. That way you’re not relying on the word of partisan bureaucrats dictating rule changes.

    6. For Trump to win this election he has to argue that tens of thousands of voters, who acted in good faith by mailing in their ballots according to what they thought was a legal method of voting, should be ignored.

      No, he has to argue that thousands of votes were pulled out of Democrat staffers asses, and didn’t come from real voters at all.

      -jcr

  10. https://twitter.com/KMCRadio/status/1326239893073387524?s=19

    In MI alone there are now 131 witnesses who have signed affidavits willing to testify to flagrant violations.

    1. a random person tweeting a completely unverified claim with zero details……. this is what qualifies as “evidence” these days…… whatever it takes to feed the confirmation bias, i guess.

      1. Or, you know, a blue checkmark posting basic information about the 131 legal affidavits and 2800 incident reports filed with the state by state GOP chairwoman Ronna McDaniel.

        Seriously shreek, you need to cool it. You’re making yourself look even dumber than usual today.

      1. Cool link from 4 days ago about a completely different lawsuit you fucking retarded cunt.

        1. Haha DOL posts irrelevant links again!

        2. You are so mad.

          Not my fault all this twitter evidence doesn’t seem convincing in court. Not my fault you all are too weak to live in reality. Sorry I’m not making it easy to hide in your little fantasy.

          1. Haha DOL is so fucking stupid he doesn’t realize he posted a link to different lawsuits from several days ago!

  11. Let a thousand flowers bloom. Don’t be the first to stop applauding.

    CNN creating lists of people who have not vigorously congratulated Joe Biden on his CNN-declared victory.

    1. This is how you get the communism.

      But don’t tell Reason this.

      I don’t think they understand the fact Trump was the better option. Only a beta-male cuck obsesses over his ego and mannerisms.

      It takes wisdom and guts to say, ‘you know, I’m libertarian and Trump is a prick but he’s not a danger to us. JOE BLEEPING BIDEN and that nut job degenerate running mate are so I’m going to make sure I don’t split the vote this time around under some false principle.’

      It’s that serious in my view.

      1. I don’t think they understand the fact Trump was the better option.

        Honestly hard to tell sometimes if they truly believe their own bullshit, or if they’re being held metaphorically captive.

        Only a beta-male cuck obsesses over his ego and mannerisms.

        Beta-male cuck is the new black.

    2. Wow. CNN is fucking nuts. I guess they weren’t going to let MSNBC take the wind out of their sails.

      1. They have to make up for having election coverage more unbiased than Fox.

  12. Absentee and mail-in votes have been valid for decades, but not until now has anyone has the childishness to challenge them in court. Trump will lose on this one. Mail-in votes are checked for proper signatures. In fact, checked more rigorously.

    A lot of mail-in votes gets tossed out because the signatures just don’t match what’s on file. But voting in person just means that you signed on a line, not that anyone checked your signature against the one you put on your registration form.

    This case is just an ego rub to Trump. There’s no way he can win.

    1. Well he did say he was tired of winning…

    2. You’re aware there are numerous affidavits stating, specifically, that they were ordered to NOT check signatures and the like, right?

      1. Nobody gives a shit if the signatures don’t match. It’s a stupid requirement, because people’s signatures change all the time. My signature is different from what it was a few years ago. The courts are not going to overturn an election because some signatures didn’t match.

        1. “It’s a stupid requirement, because people’s signatures change all the time.”

          They do not.

          “My signature is different from what it was a few years ago.”

          You are full of shit.

          1. I would love to see your standard for determining how much variation in someone’s signature is required to invalidate a ballot. That shit will never fly.

            1. It’ll fly any fucking day over no verification at all.

        2. If you’re younger than 22, I’ll beleive this.

          If you’re older than 22, either there’s been a radical shift in the culture that I missed somewhere, or you’re lying.

        3. “Nobody gives a shit if the signatures don’t match.”

          We know you don’t. But fraud is fraud. Feel free to provide a workable alternative for MAIL IN VOTING to identify the ballots are legitimate or not.

          1. There are many alternatives. For starters, a notarized signature. You can have election notaries that keep a record of the people whose votes the are verifying just like any other notarized document. You show up, present identification, and sign in the presence of the notary.

            This would work.

            But, identification is racist. Having to travel to meet with a notary is racist. Having anyone do anything to confirm your identity is racist.

            So, we do not get common sense verification procedures and end up in the exact type of clusterfuck in which we find ourselves today.

        4. Actual it does matter, because PA doesnt require ID for voting. The signature match is the only verification that the voter is registered to vote.

          1. This is really the craziest fucking thing about all of this. Show your fucking ID. It is not hard, or burdensome.

            For reasons I will never comprehend, this is beyond the pale for many people. I can only conclude that this is done in order to create openings for fraud.

            1. The pa dems fought tooth and nail against voter id back in 2015. The pa republican legislature tried to get it done with a provison for free state provided id for anyone without a drivers license, but the dems sued it into oblivion until it was too late to implement before the 2016 election.

              Its by intent….pa has been rife with voter fraud for a very long time.

              1. For anybody watching, AZ race has closed to Biden only ahead by 14k and 2% still to count.

                Interestingly enough, Trump has more votes than McSally. I really don’t understand my fellow Arizonians.

                1. Not sure why this posted here…

            2. For reasons I will never comprehend, this is beyond the pale for many people.

              It’s not hard to understand at all. The ID requirement makes it difficult to cast a vote while posing as a different person. If we instituted mandatory voter ID, the whole tradition of the Chicago graveyard vote would end.

              -jcr

        5. All of this is beside the point. Polling places DO NOT check signatures because the volunteer poll workers at the temporary polling location do NOT have your signature on file to check. The county office does. Which is why absentee ballots get checked, but polling places don’t.

          No one’s standing-up-in-line signature is going to match their sitting-down-and-filling-out-ballot signature.

          Moreover, having poll volunteers manually check signatures would mean HUUUGE fraud as they just deny people the ability to vote because they can claim signatures don’t match. So easy to do, which is why it’s not done.

          Signature matching is just another NOT-A-RULE that Republicans made up on the fly so they don’t have to deal with the fact that their candidate lost.

          Affidavits that signatures weren’t being checked? Who the fuck cares? They’re not checked anyway! Because the volunteer poll workers can’t do it! Because they don’t have your signature to check against!

          1. You dont know what you are talking about. All pa polling places have your signature available to confirm when signing in to vote. In years past there was a big book. Now, its electronic. The poll works are required to confirm a match. If it doesnt, you are supposed to get a provisional ballot that will be reviewed in greater detail later.

            The lawsuit claims that the state court and sos voided the requirement for signature verification on mail in ballots only. In person was still required. Hence, a double standard and hugely disparate impact since 2/3 of the in person voted trump and 2/3 of the mail in coted biden

            1. “…2/3 of the mail in coted biden”
              In other states, the percentage of support for Biden, on mail-in ballots, was in the single digits, compared to the ones supporting Trump.
              Only Pennsylvania had such a massive proportion go to Biden – 60+% versus less-than 10%.
              The only other outlier was, you guessed it, the late-called Michigan, with 37%.
              Funny(?) how these late-called states have such outside the norm counts, isn’t it?

          2. And also, no one is denied an opportunity to vote if their signatures dont match. They are given a provisonal ballot. Its still a ballot and a vote, but the county will verify voter legality later.
            Signature verification is the ONLY means of proof of voter registration/legality as PA predominantly operates under an honor-system for voting. If you know someones name and address, you can show up in the proper polling place and vote in their name. The only way to prevent that in PA is by the signature verification.
            It is common for people to show up to vote, particularly later in the day, and find that someone already voted in your name. Most pa residents know someone who,this happened to…sometimes often.
            Its a common route of fraud and they caught someone. just this election coming over from new jersey and voting in pa at differnt polling places under others identities.
            The mail in provsions rammed through by the pa sos, voided even this basic verifaction. They wholesaled fraud.

          3. I was watching Canadian Youtuber Lawyer Viva Frei and he laughed at the U.S. election system… he has to provide two pieces of ID and proof of address to vote. No one calls Trudeau’s Canada irredeemably racist.

            1. The only reason we dont have id for voting is because the dems scream like banshees whenever anyone tries to implement it. The states that have, are either deep blue or deep red such that it doesnt matter.

            2. No one calls Trudeau’s Canada irredeemably racist.

              Well, I wouldn’t be so sure about that these days.

          4. Polling places DO NOT check signatures because the volunteer poll workers at the temporary polling location do NOT have your signature on file to check.

            This is a quirk of your locality, if you aren’t just making it up out of whole cloth. When I signed in at my polling location there was a fucking copy of my on-file signature on the screen right above the box where I signed.

          5. Youre a fucking liar. The Pa required signature march for in person voting. It is in the lawsuit dumbfck.

        6. I’ll steal Sevo’s line: YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT!

          AZ has an established absentee voter system. Guess what they use for validation? The voters signature. Please stop pushing bullshit for which you are clearly ignorant.

        7. Sometimes I fuck up my signature (or always on electronic pads), but the style stays the same. That’s kind of the point of a signature. Sure it changes a bit over time, but you should be able to tell pretty easily if it was you or just someone writing your name. If they were trying to forge it, that makes it a lot harder.

          1. The notion that people’s signatures are capable of varying dramatically, and rapidly, over time, is nonsense. Forging signatures is not easy. However, it is even harder to get your own signature so dramatically wrong, inadvertently, that it does not match itself.

            Now, I think comparing signatures is a ridiculous archaic way of verifying somebody’s identity. There are much easier, more efficient, and more reliable means. But, when it is literally the only form of verification available, you have to permit people to draw distinctions during the verification process, even if they seem to be arbitrary.

            To enact a rule (especially without legislative imprimatur), prohibiting signature comparisons for verification purposes is effectively to pass a rule that mail in ballots need to be verified in any way. That is the biggest problem that I see in Pennsylvania and it is very hard for me to look at it any other way.

        8. Nobody gives a shit if the signatures don’t match. It’s a stupid requirement, because people’s signatures change all the time. My signature is different from what it was a few years ago. The courts are not going to overturn an election because some signatures didn’t match.

          I wonder why I have to sign my signature on contracts, or government forms, or my drivers license, or on my checks since no two signatures are ever the same and cannot ever be verified.

        9. In person voting in Pa still had the signature verification requirement dumb fuck. It is part of the lawsuit.

        10. “The courts are not going to overturn an election because some signatures didn’t match.”

          About a decade ago, an election worker at my polling place (here in PA) told me my signature didn’t match (because I wrote Bill instead of William, which is what I’m registered as) and told me I needed to resign my name (using William) to be able to vote.

          Don’t know how mail in ballots are treated, but it appears that signature requirements are far stricter for those who vote in person (than for mail in ballots), which should not occur.

    3. Mail-in voting has NOT been wide spread for decades. Not in the scope it was implemented this year.

      Oregon was the first state to implement mail-in voting for federal elections in 1995.

      And the fact that people in the media deliberately confused absentee voting with mail-in voting is telling.

      1. most states have allowed mail in voting (absentee voting with no reason required, for those who need help seeing through your BS attempt to pretend there is a difference.) for decades…… and like the wars that made it more widespread in the past, many in those few states without such laws considered the pandemic a sufficient reason.

        in other words…. you are a liar.

        1. most states have allowed mail in voting

          That is factually incorrect. There are only five states that allow no-excuse mail-in voting.

          In the decades that followed, people who voted by mail generally had to have a specific reason for not being able to vote in person on Election Day. That began to change in 1978, when California became the first state to allow voters to apply for an absentee ballot without having to provide an excuse, according to Gronke.

          Oregon also claims several firsts in the history of voting by mail. The first entirely mail-in federal primary election took place in the state in 1995, and the first mail-only general election took place in the state in 1996, when Ron Wyden was elected to the U.S. Senate to replace Bob Packwood, who resigned amid a sexual harassment scandal. Since 2000, after 70% of voters approved a ballot initiative instituting the program, Oregon has been an all vote-by-mail state.

          As TIME reported in its recent roundup of state laws for voting by mail in 2020, five states were already holding entirely mail-in elections before the pandemic—Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington and Utah. Twenty-nine states and Washington D.C. allowed “no excuse” mail-in absentee voting, and 16 states allowed voters to cast a ballot by mail if they had an excuse.

          No-excuse mail-in voting was NOT widespread before 2020.

          1. Foo_dd is a shreek sock, just FYI. Treat the lying pedophile piece of shit accordingly.

          2. you are a liar. 29 states allowed “no excuse” absentee ballots before the pandemic ever hit…… it is right there in the text you quoted, fucktard…..

            “Twenty-nine states and Washington D.C. allowed “no excuse” mail-in absentee voting, and 16 states allowed voters to cast a ballot by mail if they had an excuse.”

            the 5 was states were those doing it ENTIRELY by mail….. and those were the only states that ended up doing that….. and not one of those states is one that we are even talking about this because of. JFC, at least read the entire section you copy paste….

    4. it isn’t just the ego stroke…. like everything this man does, it is also intended to piss people off who don’t like him…… specifically the millions of people who followed what they were told the rules were but who overwhelming did not vote for him. there is not a judge in this country that would put their name behind such a blatant disregard for the intent of the law to satisfy a political desire.

      1. It’s dead in the water, but this is going to make for some great archival evidence of how stupid and/or dishonest these people are.

        1. yeah. i don’t know if the history books will be comical or just embarrassing.

          1. What do the history books say about your 4 year long Russian collusion conspiracy theory that got shot up your asshole like a rocket?

            1. Read the final Senate report on the matter. Collusion.

            2. hey, retard….. I’m not a democrat…. believing everything stupid the left has done is not a requirement to see how fucking awful Trump is.

        2. I agree, you’ve shown multiple times in this thread alone what a mendacious lying sack of shit you are.

      2. “We had to break the law to follow the intent of the law”. That’s an argument that might work well on feeble minded nose picking Marxists like you with a sub-80 IQ, but it don’t fly in court. Try telling any judge in the country that your intentions are more important than what the law says. The fact that you need those 300,000 or so manufactured votes with no signatures, no verification, no postmarks, and no chain of custody to pretend your boy won doesn’t change what the law says.

        1. “Try telling any judge in the country that your intentions are more important than what the law says.”

          To be fair, at least three justices presently sitting on the Supreme Court, and four if you include Roberts, believe exactly this.

          1. …predictably will rule exactly AS IF they believe this.
            in actuality they only believe in team blue results

    5. Mail-in votes are checked for proper signatures. In fact, checked more rigorously.

      The Pennsylvania supreme court specifically ruled that ballots WITHOUT ANY FUCKING SIGNATURE could be counted you colossally fucking retarded cunt. Not only is there no signature verification, but also no post-mark requirement, and they defied state law by allowing late-arriving ballots to be counted for an indefinite period after the deadline. They acknowledged in their ruling that the authority to make those changes resides with the legislature, but that Covid-19 voided that requirement.

      1. Article I, sec 4 gives the power to change election laws only to state legislatures and congress.

        This and election fraud will be the legal and constitutional reason for the SCOTUS to toss millions of mail-in ballots.

        1. when people want to toss legally submitted ballots specifically to change the outcome of an election….. and claim they don’t like fraud……. SMH.

  13. There was fraud. We know this. Dead people know this. It’s probably an open secret.

    No fucken way Biden got 73 million votes without some help. I’m sticking with that.

    1. No one can force you to come to reality. Too scary to imagine that your tangerine king isn’t infallible huh?

      1. Biden did better with black voters in Detroit than Obama, the first black president did. Sounds like Barack wasn’t as popular with black folks as we thought.

        1. Trump was the most unpopular president in history, the 2018 mid terms delivered an uncontested victory for democrats, Biden is up almost 5 million on the popular vote, but there is no way Trump lost.

          Yeah, that makes sense.

          1. Trumps approval rating was comparable to obama throughout most of his presidency.

          2. Right, so Biden is more popular than Obama, but only in the Detroit, Milwaukee, Atlanta, and Philly metro areas. Not Chicago, not New York, not LA, not Dallas, not Baltimore, not D.C.. Just the four states that are swinging the election. Pull the other one, it’s got gold leaf, LEDs, and bells on.

          3. Trump was the most unpopular president in history

            If you’re going to lie at least lie about things that can’t be easily blown apart by a 3 second google search, cytotoxic.

            1. Take your own advice.

              Average approval rating of just 41%. Lowest since gallop started polling.

              https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

              1. By the same media that wont admit Trump won the election and there is massive election fraud.

          4. Trump got more votes than he did in 2016.

            Trump won more states than he did on 2016.

            Trump is poised to win the largest court case against democrat election fraud in U hsitory. Trump vs biden win for Trump will be glorious.

          5. Such a huge victory that they lost two senate seats and didn’t manage to pick up as many seats as republicans did in 2010.

            Hahahahahahahahaha

    2. Dead people know this

      Next up in 2020: earthquakes from all the grave-spinning.

    3. So we’ve reached the point where you’ve stopped even pretending to have any evidence.

      1. Other than 150 affidavits and 2800 incident reports.

      2. Stop pretending you care about evidence.

    4. well 73 Million legal votes…

  14. Anything for its own sake is not good. Reason posing as reason accomplishes nothing. Sometimes Rockford intuition is necessary.

    https://www.eipartnership.net/rapid-response/what-the-election-results-dont-tell-us

  15. Ho hum another reason koch article that Trump can’t win shouldn’t try go home.

    Hey reason have you looked at what some folks are saying now – making lists of people who supported Trump or weren’t sufficiently woke enough to resist. Welcome to your future.

    1. Those lists are another reason why SCOTUS justices barrett, kavanugh, thomas, gorsuch, and alito will side with trump in Trump vs Biden to toss mailin ballots.

      Democrats are coming for anyone not a Lefty, so this will be the last chance to stop Lefties.

  16. You are gaslighting…again.

    The lawsuit isnt about mail in votes, its about PA egregious mismanagement of mail in votes. The claims in the lawsuit are powerful, if you bothered to read it and particularly problematic relative to the intentional lack of rigor in verification of identity. The claims are revolve arpund the idea that the pa dem leadership intentional skewed voting to favor blue counties. We will see what happens, as its doubtful the pa court will do anything, but that just sets it up for a scotus review. Its a powerful indictment of the pa leftists.

    1. >>You are gaslighting…again.

      may be giving Eric credit for a level of clever above his reach.

    2. I did read it, the claims are weak.

      1. So you should have no problem explaining precisely what the claims are and why they are weak right? Because you’re a legal expert who has read the complaint and certainly not a dumbfuck unemployed 50 center copy and pasting talking points from Twitter.

        1. They did a decent job of outlining the relevant laws. They also outlined a few cases of what they say are failures to follow all procedures perfectly. They also try to bootstrap the laws on voiding improperly cast ballots and securing ballots into a prohibition on people curing defective ballots. In all they may make a few good points, but overall nothing that will come close to discarding anywhere near the number of ballots to change the outcome. If anything, they make a good case to re-do the voting system in PA to clear up the issues they identify.

        2. Let’s now point out that the Trump campaign (which by design) is indistinguishable from the Trump administration (government) is creating and submitting false affidavits (which are not just allegations, but sworn statements). This is into criminal territory.

          1. Point out? Point what out? This is you pulling shit out of your ass and licking your fingers clean.

            1. What I wrote is true, but I do understand how it is hard to believe.

              1. With the left hand, now!

  17. Courts aren’t overturning this election. But I’m loving the tears here!

    1. If you were actually convinced you wouldn’t need to come here and recite the same incantation in every thread for 12-16 hours a day. It’s fucking hilarious watching you shit your pants, shreek. You’re even busting out 4 and 5 year old sock accounts that you long since retired. Remember when you were socking with Dajjal and AddictionMyth in the same thread and accidentally outed yourself? What made you bring back that old handle after all this time? Did you think everyone who watched you out yourself had left or forgotten?

    2. You’re projecting your own inability to deal with adversity onto others.

    3. Democrat leadership disagrees with you. They are scared shitless that Trump didnt concede and the lie that Biden won is crumbling.

      Trump vs biden is gonna be a glorious victory for Trump. Just ask W. bush.

    4. Does anyone have an ETA on when the trump fans will abandon this site?

  18. https://twitter.com/MaxAbrahms/status/1325974511422935040?s=19

    Kamala Harris says America “will once again stand with civil society and pro-democracy partners in Syria and help advance a political settlement where the Syrian people have a voice.”

    Time to re-arm the rebels because this went so great when Biden was VP.

    1. I’m sure the guy below you will condemn that any minute now…

  19. I really didn’t think any of you dummies were gullible enough for Trump to string you along an entire week without providing any evidence, but here we are

    1. Understand if you only listen to cnn, but trumps team has been putting out new evidence everyday. Try to find real news.

      1. Rudy Giuliani panting in front of the Four Seasons Total Landscaping is not evidence.

    2. There is no gullibility involved. After voting, we have legal challenges, certification, electoral college, and congressional certification. We’re at step two.

      Biden is almost certainly going to win. We still should go through the legal process. Even if it doesn’t flip the election, we want to know the extent of fraud.

      1. All the state legislatures for WI, MI, PA, NC, GA, and AZ are republican.

        With this unprecedented amount of election fraud, the state legislatures should ignore popular votes in their states and select Electors that will pick Trump.

        Guarantee that democrats never try this amount of election fraud again.

        Funny thing about democrats and their outrage when their lies and crimes get exposed, fuck them.

        1. I agree that’s what they should do. They should also overhaul their voting procedures and reporting. However, I don’t think they have the backbone to do that.

        2. the state legislatures should ignore popular votes in their states and select Electors that will pick Trump.

          I don’t think they can. They have to follow the statues that were in force on election day. Passing a law to send electors chosen by the legislature in this election would be ex post facto.

          -jcr

  20. Reason finally has the right wing equivalent
    of cancel culture: Trump is trying to cancel innocent illegal votes who just want to make a better life for themselves by coming to this country and opening food trucks! Both sides!

  21. Eric Boehm’s new propaganda piece looks like an attempt to ignore massive irregularities and malfeasance in the Pennsylvania election. It’s likely to fail.

    Also, since we routinely get told that this is not a journalism site, but rather an opinion and analysis outlet, would it be too much to ask to have people who actually have any level at all of education or experience in the fields about which they write? If I want to see the latest Democratic Underground talking points I can just go look them up myself. At least employ somebody with a law degree to put your spin on the lawsuit instead of having some humanities flunk out copy and paste shit from Twitter.

    1. Ask Bpehm what ever happened to “counting all the votes”.

      Biden and democrats demanded that. Once the media tried to kingmaker Biden, all counting, recounts, and legal challenges must stop.

  22. “massive irregularities and malfeasance in the Pennsylvania election. It’s likely to fail.”

    You forgot your citation

    1. It is the lawsuit dickweed.

  23. For anybody watching, AZ race has closed to Biden only ahead by 14k and 2% still to count.

    Interestingly enough, Trump has more votes than McSally. I really don’t understand my fellow Arizonians.

    1. Hundreds of thousands of fraudulent mailin ballots.

      Democrat officials changed some ballots to get the result they wanted.

  24. ★Makes $140 to $180 per day online work and I received $16894 in one month online acting from home.I am a daily student and work simply one to a pair of hours in my spare time.Everybody will do that job and monline makes extra cash by simply opening this link… by follow details Here═❥❥ CLICK HERE FOR FULL DETAIL

  25. Credit Donald Trump for at least coming up with a lawsuit that is relevant to the outcome, regardless of how unlikely it is to succeed.

    So, his chances for a second term have risen from 0% to 0.0001%.

  26. Trump himself voted by mail. LOL.

    1. Trump voted by absentee ballot, not vote-by-mail.

      1. He used an ineligible or falsified address.

        Keep clinging, clingers. Your betters find your flailing highly entertaining.

        1. Shut your mouth before you get your other bicep blown off.

        2. Kirkland, you’re an ignorant, historically illiterate, privileged white male Brownshirt. You’re nobody’s “better”.

  27. Let’s point out that the Trump campaign (which by design) is indistinguishable from the Trump administration (government) is creating and submitting false affidavits (which are not just allegations, but sworn statements). This is into criminal territory.

  28. I think some tort reform is in order.

  29. You want to vote and are not deployed in the armed forces? Then you have to physically go to your voting place and vote. Period..no mail in voting allowed…we all know what occurred…it is very easy to see the voter roles and who hasn’t voted in years…then ship them all to a warehouse where they are all cast for one candidate…and returned n the middle of the night. Offer some big rewards for info and the truth will be uncovered…might have been a few thousand here or there but that is all that was needed.

    1. Fuck you. You don’t get to change the rules because you lose.

      1. Cry some more about how the popular vote is the real number we should use to elect Presidents …

        1. The popular vote is the real number we should use to elect presidents.

          Just as you’d believe if it were your ox being gored by an unfair, pointless, and destructive legal relic.

          1. Tony, that’s not what the law says. And it wouldn’t be good for the US.

            1. I know what the law is, and changing that law would be good for the US. More democratic legitimacy is a good thing. And incidentally, Republicans not having their paws on the lever of power, especially without the imprimatur of the people, is also a good thing.

      2. You dont get to change the rules without state legislature approval.

        Especially using retarded kungflu lies to scare people.

        Trump vs biden is gonna be a glorious win for trump.

      3. Tony and lefties are scared because their bluff that Biden “won” go called by Trump who they cannot get rid of.

        Biden’s “President-elect” nonsense is gonna be laughed at for decades.

        1. I only wish you were a real American human so I could taste your tears when the Trumpiverse collapses around you.

          Oh sorry, I’m a good liberal. I’ll write a hillbilly elegy for the pathetic state of affairs your circumstance has placed you in.

          1. You’re a socialist, not a liberal.

            And a Biden/Harris presidency won’t make me or others cry, why would it? We just think it’s horrible for the country.

      4. By law, state legislatures get to set the rules. And they can change them any time they want. Republican state legislatures in swing states could simply pass a law to select electors for Trump, ignoring the vote entirely.

  30. If I want to hear legal commentary, I’ll go to an author who actually knows something about the law. Stick to stuff you know.

    1. Boehm knows nothing.

  31. Did Rudy cook that up before or after he went into that sex toy store and the press conference?

  32. The yahoos who filed this complaint (1) did not proofread it or (2) are illiterate.

    1. (1) You sure as hell did not read anything, let alone the complaint;

      (2) No, you cannot just “learn” to skateboard in your forties — and it is embarrassing that you would even try.

      1. (2) No, you cannot just “learn” to skateboard in your forties — and it is embarrassing that you would even try.

        Have some sympathy for Rev. He spent his childhood getting pummeled by the bigger, stronger boys. It only makes sense that he would try to recreate part of the childhood he missed.

  33. Weird that the leftists here are so frantic…
    It’s almost like they know their “victory” is an illusion reliant upon the thinnest of veils.

    1. Yup. For all of us at unreason who pointed out staff agreeing to the democrat lies that biden won, unreason never admitting they were complicit is evidence of their admission biden lost.

      I just wanted welch to quit when Trump won. Now all unreason staffers should quit for being absolute treasonous assholes to constitutional law regarding fair elections.

      A trump victory with trump vs biden is gonna be glorious.

  34. https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1326323334800437248?s=19

    RECORDING: Federal agents “coerce” USPS whistleblower Hopkins to water down story. Hopkins doubles down…

    Agent Strasser: “I am trying to twist you a little bit”

    “I am scaring you here”…” we have Senators involved…DOJ involved…reason they called me is to try to harness.”

    1. https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1326325779743952896?s=19

      “I am not scaring you. But I am scaring you.”

      This is the real world of how federal agents coerce confessions out of people.

      1. Interesting play by play:
        https://twitter.com/DanTalks1/status/1326327827721932800?s=19

        I recommend watching this, this is a very scary masterclass in how manipulators can change your perception of reality.

        It’s like a magic trick, once you are aware and have seen it, you become immune to it.
        Vaccinate your mind against manipulators.

        Im going to break down how exactly this works so you can learn.
        In hypnosis it’s important to realise two things, one major one is the frame in which the interaction is created. He starts off the pressure by saying “Let me make good on this promise right away”, this is to Set the frame that he is already imposed an outcome on the guy. This subconsciously puts him in a power position in the interaction to encourage compliance in the future.
        Then he uses visual imagery (very important as this hits the emotional rather than logical centres of the brain) of “This storm”. Storms are dark and uncontrollable, they are also dangerous. This implies that the guy is in danger.
        By doing this he sets himself up to be even more powerless than before. He has already had a promise imposed, now he has a natural phenom incoming. This is to trigger danger senses in the brain.
        Then he says “it’s getting crazy, right?”. This is to impose another layer of fear and confusion. He then uses “right” to get agreement from the guy. When you agree, you subconsciously accept all prior statements.
        “Out of a lot of people’s control” – This is now another ratcheting of fear, and a pre-amble for what he is about to set in the future. This is called a setpoint in hypnosis.
        Then he talks about the reason he is there, is to harness the storm. – This is to convey that this is the guy to alleviate the massive fear he has just implanted into the guy. He then doubles down on this.
        By saying “Try to reel it in before it gets really crazy”. Notice how he doesn’t say what consequences are, or anything objective. This is because what you imagine will always be worse than what he can describe, this is intentional.
        Also notice the tone when he says “Really crazy”, the emphasis is important.
        Then he goes into who is involved, which he now has a target for the prior anchor.
        He put the anchor before as “out of peoples control”, now the people involved are the target. When high profile people are out of control, this ratchets up the pressure even further.
        The subject then talks about Trumps team getting ahold of him, now the real wizardry begins, now he’s set the stage.
        “I am not – I am actually” This is an ultimate trick, where the former we take as more important than the latter. So while he says the truth to disarm “I am”, what is understood “I am not” is how it’s perceived.
        “I am trying to twist you a little bit” this is because he’s already anchored himself as the person to resolve the high fear he has created already. Then he says “Your mind will kick in”, this is what’s called ‘pre-programming’, or creating realities.
        He’s now ratcheted up fear to the point where he is now telling the guys subconcious to create new realities to relieve the pressure applied previously.
        “We like to control our mind” – this is an anchor that is designed to get agreement. He then gets agreement and couples it with the target. “we can convince ourselves of a memory”, this is the leading target of the anchor he just created. Brilliance from him in a twisted way.
        “But when you are under a little bit of stress, which is what I’m doing to you purposely” He tells the truth in order to disarm the logical override in the guys brain. The logic is, if he’s telling me exactly what I’m feeling, he must be right and helping me.
        Remember he’s anchored himself as the resolver to the fear he created.
        Then he says “Your mind can be a little bit clearer” – this is top tier manipulation.
        Where he doesn’t specifically tell him what to think, but he tells him to make it clearer, which is something nobody will argue with. So to be more clear, you have to work with him.
        Then he talks about an exercise to make your mind clearer, notice how he repeats this multiple times in the same short span. This is manipulation through repetition, you have to be skilled in this to notice it.
        “But this is all on purpose” – again telling the truth to get compliance.
        “I am not scaring you, but I am scaring you”. This is the same trick repeated previously. We take the former to be true, and the latter is discarded subconsciously.
        This is an absolute disgrace that this happened, but this is an absolute masterclass in manipulative wizardry.

        1. I can’t wait for Reason’s coverage of this story tomorrow!

          1. Reason is always very concerned, deeply concerned, overwhelmingly concerned when Federal law enforcement gets heavy handed.

    2. https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1326359786040987649?s=19

      USPS Whistleblower demands Washington Post retract story saying he recanted

      1. Holy crap I just went down into the rabbit hole. Who the fuck is Sarah Carter?

        It’s a black hole of ratfuckery is what that is. A perfectly normal election is being called into question by the absolute shadiest of anecdotes, and actual congresspeople are peddling it.

        You guys really don’t like Republicans not having power, huh?

        Unfortunately for you not even Trump’s judges are likely to go along with this nonsense. But we’ll remember when you tried to steal an election, albeit with the adroitness of a gimpy baboon. We don’t take kindly to treasoners in these parts.

    1. This one has to be a fake, right? No one is stupid enough to record themselves…ok, probably is fake.

      1. The one of the guy ripping up a ballot is almost certainly fake.
        The one of somebody pulling ripped up ballots out of the trash, I don’t know.

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  35. Peculiar that the liberals here are so rushed…

    It’s practically similar to they know their “triumph” is a figment dependent upon the most slender of the cloak.

    https://dealmarkaz.pk/online

  36. Why did you write “Even though the signatures on mail-in ballots must also be verified against voter rolls,”?

    This is not true. This was the entire point of the pre-election lawsuit that Roberts dangerously ducked. The court in Pennsylvania directly contradicted the law on this and on receipt and postmark rules. And Roberts punted, saying they would take it up after the election. This was guaranteed to make any decision by the court seem illegitimate… And it will.

    There can be no doubt that the state court violated the law, since the law is straightforward and says the exact opposite of what the court ruled. It also crested the exact situation that you now pretend does not exist. It also crested the opportunity for Philadelphia area officials to intertwine things in a way that can never be fairly unwound.

    If you wanted to have the appearance of an illegitimate election, you could hardly come up with a better way of doing it than the Pennsylvania courts, Roberts and Philadelphia election officials combi ed to create.

    1. Exactly. The PA high court disregarded the clear election laws passed by the legislature, the designated authority for managing the vote, in a way that made the situation orders of magnitude more contentious. The damage was done in a way that can’t be undone, once the ballots are fully collected and intermingled on election day.
      It is mindboggling that they would do this, exceeding their constitutional authority in a way that is blatantly wrong. And SCOTUS punting pre-election is especially egregious, pointing to cowardice on their part to make the required tough calls. All this could have been mitigated pre-election, with no impact on the votes. Now, everything is in question and the courts will be forced to make decisions guaranteed to infuriate half the voters. Stupidity or intent? The mind boggles.

      1. And frankly, this harkens back to the stupidity of Gore’s team in 2000. They had the opportunity to demand a full recount in FL, but went down the path of pressing for a limited recount in only the counties they thought would benefit them. Utter stupidity that forced the court to make a highly contentious call. There was no reason for it….they could have pursued a full recount and avoided the entire fiasco and the national partisan scars that are driving election issues to this day.

  37. I am no Trump fan, but the issue in PA is about who makes the rules on voting, the courts or the legislature. The constitution says the legislature decides. Right before the election the court decided to ignore the constitution and illegaly change the rules.

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    1. “widespread evidence”

      This is Boehm’s way of letting everyone know he’s a gaslighting, goalpost-moving hack who’s just repeating whatever the NYT says.

  39. Unreason: There are only 10,000 post Election Day, 8 pm votes. There is no ACKTUAL evidence of Biden family corruption. Unreasonable science: Joe Biden’s rhetoric about the American energy industry is not about plunging the dollar and making foreign production more lucrative. It’s about a market-based approach to solving climate change!

  40. You should have to show up in person to vote…period..unless you are in the military and deployed. But States control voting..hopefully the GOP understands how this works and “holds back” rural votes until the Cities produce theirs..then “find” just enough to win…it’s easy..just review the voter roles and find folks who have not voted in years..send their ballots canvassers who visit the voter and “help” them vote..then hold on to the ballots until the woke cities send their votes in….takes some money and organization but all legal and with this Trump most likely would have won…

  41. testing…

  42. Red counties should “chose their state” and leave their state for a free state nearby…Western PA can go to ohio. Southern Ill can go to Indiana and so on…its not secession but allows for people to live with their common folks..Chose your State..

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