Election 2020

Mitt Romney's Lament Highlights Trump's Swing-State Mormon Problem

LDS disaffection could help swing Arizona blue.

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It says something about the frazzed-out state of American politics that a statement released three weeks before election day by a senior GOP senator and recent Republican presidential nominee decrying the "vile, vituperative, hate-filled morass" of contemporary discourse and singling out the Republican president by name generated about 90 minutes worth of reaction, then was quickly superseded by the usual clamor and splat.

Yet the broadside from Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah)—the only GOP senator to vote for impeaching Donald Trump—reflects a practical problem facing the president's re-election campaign: Mormons, traditionally among the most rock-solid blocs within the conservative base, are defecting from the Republican Party. As a result, previously reliable red states could soon swing blue.

"A 2010 Gallup survey found that 'Mormons are both the most Republican and the most conservative of any of the major religious groups in the U.S. today,'" Politico reported last month. But: "Mormon support for the Republican ticket dropped from 80 percent in 2004 and 78 percent in 2012, to 61 percent in 2016, even as most other Christians moved further to the right, according to Pew."

A 2019 PRRI survey found that just 55 percent of Mormons hold favorable views of Trump, compared to 73 percent of white evangelical Protestants and 82 percent of Republicans overall. (Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints [LDS] represent 2 percent of the U.S. population.)

Compared to other political and religious blocs, Mormons are among the most likely to prefer personal morality, limiting government in economic affairs, deploying the military abroad, and offering a welcome mat to immigrants. Each value puts them at odds with Trump.

Romney is no LDS outlier. When a behind-the-scenes Access Hollywood tape from 2005 surfaced four years ago last week showing then-celebrity Donald Trump bragging that, as a "star," he could just "grab" women "by the pussy," and they just "let you do it," it was elected Mormons—Sen. Mike Crapo (R–Idaho), Sen. Mike Lee (R–Utah), Sen. Jeff Flake (R–Arizona)—who led the GOP defection from the party's standard-bearer. Even before that, Trump had clashed frequently with both Flake and Lee, on grounds of both policy (they prefer to constrain government) and personal comportment.

The three most Mormon states—Utah (66 percent of the population), Idaho (26 percent), and Wyoming (12 percent)—have backed Republicans for president in the past 13 elections, by double-digit percentages in each case except for Wyoming in 1992. They are unanimously projected to do so again in 2020.

But it's the number four and five LDS states, Arizona and Nevada (with 6 percent each), where the Great Mormon Battle of 2020 is being waged.

"It's not going to be shocking that Trump wins the Mormon vote," Y2 Analytics partner and Brigham Young University political science professor Quin Monson told Politico. "But if it's 10 to 15 points off of the norm in Nevada and Arizona, that's a big deal….It's the equivalent of Republicans suddenly getting a quarter of the African American vote, and I do think it's within the realm of possibility."

Trump won Arizona and its 11 electoral votes by 3.5 percentage points in 2016; lost Nevada (and its six votes) by 2.4 percentage points. Current polling has Democratic nominee Joe Biden up by 3.9 percentage points in Arizona and 6.4 in Nevada. Both states are currently projected by most prognosticators to go Democrat.

One of the unanswered questions this cycle is where the 732,000 voters in 2016 for independent (and Mormon) Evan McMullin will go. We already know that Biden has a sizable polling advantage among 2016 voters for Libertarian Gary Johnson and Green Party nominee Jill Stein—a New York Times/Siena College poll released this week of six northern battleground states shows Biden beating Trump among Stein voters 59 percent to 9 percent, while Johnson voters went 38 percent Biden, 29 percent Libertarian nominee Jo Jorgensen, and 14 percent for Trump.

McMullin, who was on the ballot in 11 states, got 21.5 percent in Utah, 6.7 percent in Idaho, and between 0.7 percent and 1.8 percent in the other nine states. (Perhaps more impressively, he received 221,000 write-in votes, with a high of 0.7 percent in Arizona.) He received more votes than the margin between Trump and Hillary Clinton in both Utah and Minnesota, the latter of which was his third-best state.

McMullin or no, there has long been a correlation between the percentage of Mormon population and interest in third party/independent candidates. Seven of the top eight states in 2016 for combined voting percentages of nontraditional presidential candidates came from among the 10 most Mormon polities, and four of those seven states didn't have McMullin on the ballot.

Alaska, for example, with a Mormon population of 4.6 percent, voted 12.2 percent for non-Democrat/Republicans in 2016, and despite not even polling any third-party candidates so far this year currently shows a FiveThirtyEight Trump lead of just 4.8 percentage points, in a state that during my lifetime has never backed a Republican for president by fewer than 9 points. Montana (4.7 percent Mormon), which has given Republicans an average 16.4-point margin this century, is currently polling at +8.6 for Trump.

Any way you look at it, the president's re-election prospects are looking increasingly grim. And as ever, the biggest blocs of anti-Trump sentiment on the right are coming from Mormons, foreign policy interventionists, and libertarians (and various combinations thereof). For the next three weeks, the GOP's focus will be on bringing those strays back home. Should Trump lose, the question will transition to: Can those groups be reconciled?

NEXT: Does Owning a Gun Make a Judge's Second Amendment Rulings Suspect?

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  1. Those Mormon and libertarian socialists are going to be a liability for Trump.

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    2. Matt welch loved beto boner so his opinion on who supports Trump should be disregarded out of hand.

      Trump is more popular than in 2016. He has allowed Americans to become wealthier and fulfilled most his campaign promises including making the courts more conservative and followers of the US Constitution.

      Mormons dont want salt lake and other cities on fire, so they wont support biden.

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  2. Follower Of Joseph Smith Urges Nation To Reject Morally Flawed Leaders
    https://babylonbee.com/news/follower-of-joseph-smith-urges-nation-to-reject-morally-flawed-leaders

    SALT LAKE CITY, UT—Mitt Romney, incoming senator for Utah and follower of Joseph Smith, lectured the nation in an op-ed Tuesday on the need to reject morally flawed leaders.

    The man who has devoted his life to the teachings of a con artist encouraged the nation to examine its leaders to see whether they are worthy of our devotion and respect.

    “A president should demonstrate the essential qualities of honesty and integrity, and elevate the national discourse with comity and mutual respect,” wrote the man who follows Joseph Smith, a false prophet, notorious polygamist, and scam artist. He pointed out that the president hasn’t shown himself to be honest or forthcoming in his dealings with opponents and other countries, while Joseph Smith’s own prophecies failed to come true over and over again, and while the Mormon Church continues to deceive its members by covering up its past.

    Romney took Trump to task for his immoral lifestyle, slamming him for being divisive, destructive, and sexist, though the first prophet of his church consolidated power throughout his life in order to marry more women and eventually deceive millions into believing a false gospel.

    To close his opinion piece, Romney urged the president to live a morally upstanding lifestyle, “and maybe look for wisdom to lead the nation by staring at stones in a hat.”

    1. That was funny right there.

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    5. This is the first good comment I’ve read.

      Fuck mormons!

  3. Matt Welch being a fairly conservative institutionalist really something I would never have guessed pre-2016

    1. He’s reporting, not opinionating. So sorry your mom dropped you on your head as a baby. Better luck next go around.

      1. Right and the fact that he chooses to only report in one direction isn’t relevant at all. Sorry, that was opinion couched as reporting.

        1. And what do you write in the other direction. Trump is losing support among traditional strong Republican groups like, Mormons, fiscal conservatives, older voters. What would you headline be, “Trump still shows strength among middle age white males without a college education”?

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    2. Reason writer writes a journalistic piece expressing no personal opinions whatsoever in which the people being reported on have negative opinions of Trunp.

      CACLL response: Reason writer showing blatant anti-Trump bias!!!

      Sorry, CACLLs, but there are a lot of people out there who don’t like Trump like you do.

      1. Yes this place is swarming with Trumpers. Where I live I’ve seen exactly one Trump yard sign, and it’s my next door neighbor who’s doing it to piss me off as I fly a rainbow flag and a trans flag and have a Biden-Harris yard sign (among other fun yard decorations). My question is where the hell are all these Trumpers coming from? There’s no way all of these people are real. Makes me afraid to think that there are this many racists and homophobes in this country. Sigh.
        Thank you, the White Knight, whoever you are, for taking a stand against these assholes. We could use more people like you in the world.

        1. Some of the Trump fans here are people who have been part of the Reason “commentariat” for decades.

          For example, “John”, has been around forever. Back when Obama was president and Reason and the other commenters spent most of their time criticizing Obama and the Democrats, John was indistinguishable from a lot of other commenters here. But when Trump became president, it became clearer and clearer that John isn’t a libertarian who dislikes both Democrats and Republicans; he is a Republican partisan.

          I’ve seen some speculation that others came to Reason by way of Reason’s acquisition of the Volokh Conspiracy website.

          Reason management neglects this comment section, putting none of their resources into it, either to fix bugs or to moderate. Reason staffers rarely look at the comments, and Reason has purposely collapsed the comments on each post by default so most readers will not see the comments. That makes it a perfect free-of-charge place for Trump fans to gather every day, bitch about Democrats and Reason, and be rude to anyone who disrupts their bubble.

          1. Interesting. Thanks for the history lesson on this place.
            I’ve been reading here for a couple months and just started commenting here yesterday, and immediately I was harassed by the ‘commentariat’ as you call them. People we’re calling me ‘fag’ and ‘queer’ and saying ‘go home queer’. It’s crazy, I’ve never personally experienced this level of hate and vitriol on the internet. Thank goodness there’s another liberal around these parts to help maintain ‘reason’ and sanity. You do a good job of keeping these barbarians in their place. You’re the only commenter who is even worth taking seriously, and you can tell they’re afraid of you.

            1. Get a room, you two.

              1. The socks talking to each other is really sad.

                Needed to be in that infamous list from The Venture Brothers level of sad.

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            2. Fuck off Buttplug, your new sock isn’t fooling anyone. Even the White Knight is just playing along because s/he needs a friend.

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              2. Calling a gay man ‘buttplug’ is so original. Your bigotry is noted. And as far as I can tell the White Knight is being genuine and sincere. You could learn a thing or two about that.

                1. Let’s see, you’ve been reading for a couple of months now and don’t know which commenter is Buttplug that’s being referred to there?

                  Pressing “X” to doubt on that one.

                  1. OK WOW, this is insane, how the hell am I supposed to know there’s a commenter called BUTTPLUG. I swear to god you are all inbred hicks just messing with me. I’ve been reading the ARTICLES for several months after being referred by a colleague. I don’t read comments on any news sites as they are most always trash and filth but I enjoy this website and decided to drop a comment yesterday and lo and behold- this place is filth (yourself included apparently), aside from a few decent posts I’ve read so far. I love how everyone attacks me for being gay, and then not being who I want them to be. This place is crazy as hell. They should post a warning at the top: Gays and individual thinkers NOT welcome. This is why everyone hates libertarians just so you know.

                    1. Not everyone.

                    2. OK WOW, this is insane, how the hell am I supposed to know there’s a commenter called BUTTPLUG

                      You mean besides the fact that he comments here every other day, and you claim you’ve been reading for two months now?

                      I’ve been reading the ARTICLES for several months after being referred by a colleague.

                      Funny, you didn’t make that differentiation earlier.

                      The rest of your post is just catlady sperging.

                    3. OK me and my hub are laughing our asses off at this one. You must be joking. This place is like 4chan meets the Twilight Zone meets a special ed classroom. It’s comical, actually. You think I’m the one sperging out? Literal laugh out loud. I’m not gaslighted so easily, hon.
                      I can’t tell whether or not this is your ham-handed neanderthal way of coming onto me but yeah sorry babe, I’m taken. (Hint: not actually sorry)
                      On a serious note, I really love the vetting process here from the other commenters. Boy howdy, can’t wait til you deeply-closeted inbred mongoloid rednecks finally accept me for one of your own!

                    4. OK me and my hub are laughing our asses off at this one. You must be joking. This place is like 4chan meets the Twilight Zone meets a special ed classroom. It’s comical, actually. You think I’m the one sperging out? Literal laugh out loud. I’m not gaslighted so easily, hon.

                      LOL, you’ve been acting butt-blasted since you started posting here, but all of a sudden you’re not “gaslighted” (FYI, it’s gaslit–if you’re going to act like an intelligent sophisticate, at least use proper grammar). You literally imitated the masked crying wojack.

                      Boy howdy, can’t wait til you deeply-closeted inbred mongoloid rednecks finally accept me for one of your own!

                      What is it with you proglydytes and your obsession with incest?

                    5. OK WOW, this is insane, how the hell am I supposed to know there’s a commenter called BUTTPLUG.

                      Fuck off, Buttplug. It’s obviously you.

                    6. “They should post a warning at the top: Gays and individual thinkers NOT welcome. This is why everyone hates libertarians just so you know.”

                      Please don’t confuse libertarians with most of the people posting here.

                    7. “OK me and my hub are laughing our asses off at this one. You must be joking. This place is like 4chan meets the Twilight Zone meets a special ed classroom.”

                      Ever since you showed up, lefty shit.

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            3. You’re the only commenter who is even worth taking seriously, and you can tell they’re afraid of you.

              If you let the mask slip that far, he is going to figure it out.

              1. If anyone’s afraid of Chuck they’re a bigger pussy than him or really fucking stupid.
                Fuck your missonairy son trying to force your stupid goddamn beliefs on others. They knock on my door I’ll bash their fucking heads in.
                Fuck your cunt wife.

                1. Bitch, you ain’t doing shit until you go Full Cobain, so don’t act like you’re going to slay anything other than another box of Ding-Dongs.

                  1. You don’t know what I look like so you don’t know my weight or eating habits. I actually don’t eat much sweets.
                    It’s not worth my life or freedom, but if I was 100% sure I could get away with killing a Mormon I would. I’d be a hero for doing it.

          2. “Reason management neglects this comment section, putting none of their resources into it, either to fix bugs or to moderate”

            Reason explicitly promises not to moderate. Which is why you need to get a thicker skin. As I noted in the morning links, if you think that arguing with shit flingers will get you anything but covered in shit, then you need to spend more time reading on the internet instead of opining on it.

            I have been on this board as long or longer than John. I was here when SPB started shitting this place up on the left. I keep coming back because they expressly do not moderate except when legally compelled. I disagree with the Tulpas and Johns, as well as the Chemjeffs and you. The way I get through it is by remembering I am an adult, not a pig, and I don’t need to wallow in shit. You should try it.

            But you won’t, because you are just as convinced of the irredeemable wrongness of the mean kids as they are of you. And so you engage in your own shitflinging with passive aggressive “Citation pleases” and “you go look it up yourself” and whataboutism.

            1. “We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.” <– That's an exception to their statement they do not moderate.

              1. Thanks for confirming what Overt wrote.

          3. John is no True Scotsman.

        2. Ok, this is now *definitely* satire.

        3. Nice. OBL-quality pseudo-realism. Thanks for my laugh of the day.

        4. You don’t know shit about this place loser. Go back to virtual signalling on insta bootlicking poseur.

      2. “Sorry, CACLLs, but there are a lot of people out there who don’t like Trump like you do.”

        Do you have a cite for this?

          1. What the fuck are these CACLLs you’re always shrieking about. Google gives nothing.

            Is it your own little acronym or something you found at the Daily Kos?

            1. Yea it is his own acronym. I googled it and it only pulled up Reason articles where WK used it. lol.

              It means ‘Conservative And Conservative-Leaning Libertarians’.

          2. I looked for “CACCLs” in that article and didn’t find anything. Are you sure this cite supports your argument?

            1. Well, wtf else could it stand for? Cankles? We’re not talking Hillary here.

              1. I prefer L&LLCs, or LaLLCs to CACLLs. I even like LLLs, though those should just be “classical liberals” – CLs. I do agree with LLL,* in other contexts.

                *{Long Live the Legion!}

      3. What Welch, and yo ou, fail to realize, is that not liking Trump does NOT equal not voting for Trump. Mormons who are against big government are sure as hell not going to vote Biden. Read the article for the reasons Mormons give for not liking Trump. Is Biden better on ANY of these?

        How many on Team blue dislike Biden, and intend to vote for him anyway as the lesser of two evils? It works that way on the other side too, you know.

        I’m a Jorgensen voter, but if the left gets much more unreasonable, I could see voting team red, and I have hated Trump since the 90s

    3. #DeepStateWelch

  4. Some Mormons might stay home, but it’s not like they’re about to start voting for Biden and Harris.

    Don’t confuse a lack of enthusiasm for Trump with support for the Green New Deal, bankrupting the gun manufacturers, or packing the Supreme Court ’cause they aren’t the same thing.

    1. Will Mormons even stay home? Matt Welch seems to think that Mitt Romney speaks for Mormons, but he probably also thinks Romney speaks for Republicans.

      1. Romneys approval rating in Utah has hovered somewhere around 50% for the past several months. I am not certain is disapproval of Romney necessarily signals approval of Trump, but it is one possibility. I think we will surprised by Mormon turnout in November, and I think it will be higher than most people anticipate.

        1. Because all Mormons think the exact same way?

          1. I did not say, or imply, that.

      2. This Mormon is voting Libertarian and has for a quite a while now.
        Most of my female Mormon friends are voting for Biden even after I point out he’s a pervert too. Better a pervert who’s not a narcissist in their minds, I guess.

    2. Precisely. Hillary lost NOT because people liked Trump, but because people didn’t like Hillary and stayed home. This time around Trump is the incumbent and he has a record and is not the outsider. Yet he’s still campaigning to the choir on the platform of cleaning up the swamp he did nothing to drain for four years.

      1. Trump hasn’t been able to drain the swamp because he is the helpless victim of the Executive branch of the government.

      2. More people voted in 2016 than in 2012. Hillary didn’t lose because people didn’t get out to vote for her. People actually wanted to vote for Trump.

      3. “Yet he’s still campaigning to the choir on the platform of cleaning up the swamp he did nothing to drain for four years.”

        Trading DC swamp rats for NYC sewer rats has gotten us only even more septic rats.

        “An investigation by The Times found over 200 companies, special-interest groups and foreign governments that patronized Mr. Trump’s properties while reaping benefits from him and his administration.”

        https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/10/us/trump-properties-swamp.html

        King Rat Trump turned the swamp into a sewer.

        1. You’re right. Still voting Trump.

    3. This. I know a lot of LDS members. They might not vote for Trump, but they’re definitely not voting for Biden. (For senate.)

    4. I almost married a Mormon. Other than their social conservatism, they were all, salt of the earth, union-sympathetic, “society has got to help people”, mushy middle types. Read the 2000’s era rantings from Orson Scott Card.

      These people read like the modern day “Reagan Democrat”. They are fiscally liberal, but socially conservative and hate disorder. The only reason Trump doesn’t do better with them is that he upset their takeover of the GOP. Romney was supposed to inherit the mantle from the Bush dynasty, and he has been butt hurt ever since Trump took that from him.

      1. Well, no one can blame Trump for Romney’s self-immolation in the last presidential debate of 2012. That was all him, folding like an accordion.

      2. They are also concerned with Trump’s personal character and morality.

        1. I think that you and Overt have characterized the situation well. Mormons are hardworking, family oriented, and conservative. This is very much the opposite of Trump. Some religious groups have looked away and told themselves that supporting Trump is transactional. I do think there is a rising number of the religious that will no longer accept Trump. In many ways they have what they want in the courts and it may be time to leave the baggage of Trump behind.

          1. But are they willing to accept Kamala in return for leaving Trump behind?

            It’s not like you have to trade Barret for Harris. They can have one without the other.

      3. Read the 2000’s era rantings from Orson Scott Card.

        Don’t read the Call of Earth, which is pretty crappy, read the entire Enders Game series. It is pretty damn libertarian and topical, right down to the xenophobia and the government grossly overreacting and attempting to destroy the people to save them from a virus.

        1. Mormons aren’t libertarian. Libertarians leave people alone not force their fucked up religion on others. Mormons are anti abortion and pro drug war. Not very libertarian? Mormons want to make alcohol and tobacco illegal, or at the very least more regulated.
          I know you’re not very smart Chuck since you worship a pedo con artist, but…
          MORMONS ARENT LIBERTARIANS!!!

          You won’t reply because you’re a goddamn Mormon coward. Heck I’d tell you where I live, so if you came to try and convert me I’d garrot you to death with your own magic underwear. I’d be a hero. You people are fucking scumbags who won’t stop trying to ruin our country.

          Goddamn coward,
          I hope your kids fucking die. Missionaries are just trying to force your stupid beliefs on others.
          Why do missionaries get sent to places where there’s already Mormons? For example ivehad missonaries from Toronto, Utah, and Hawaii approach me here. There’s already too many fucking mormons here, but why can’t the mormons from here go door to door trying to convert folks? Seems wasteful and stupid.

          1. Heck I’d tell you where I live

            No, you won’t. I guarantee the last thing you actually want is to dox yourself.

            1. Not on the forum, but I’d tell him where I am cuz I’m not a coward and I know he won’t do shit cuz all Mormons are cowards.

              1. Dude, what is your diagnosis?

    5. As an exmormon with tons of fam and friends still deluding themselves, I can say with confidence that even the ones that are too embarrassed to publicly admit they like trump, will be in full force voting for Trump come Election Day. Biden offers nothing of what Mormons want whatsoever.

  5. Can those groups be reconciled?

    I hope they can’t, and the major parties crack up.

    1. Hear! Hear!

      The duopoly is f’ing up this country.

    1. Congratulations Chipper, you must be delighted?

      1. What difference does it make? We all get the flu.

  6. >>It says something about the frazzed-out state of American politics

    it says nobody gives two fucks about Mitt Romney

    1. I give more than that many fucks about Romney. A Republican with integrity is a rare find these days.

      1. It’s also why he got his ass kicked by Obama in 2012.

      2. Just curious, how many fucks exactly do you give Mitt Romney ?

        1. 15.

          Fun fact: KillAllRednecks gives -3 fucks about Romney.

          1. Hardly. The guys obsessed.

      3. “Romney. A Republican with integrity.”

        Hardly. He thought he was Republican royalty, and was pissed off that a discount Vinny Gambini was picked by voters instead of him.
        He was even more pissed when Trump treated him like a chump instead of the preeminent GOPe princeling when he visited court. McCain and Ryan were the exact same thing.
        Their lordships were offended so they had a tantrum.

        Fuck them.

        1. I still remember the picture of mitt at dinner with trump, priceless.

          1. “My name is Reek.” It was good for a laugh. Mitt should have fought harder if he wanted to sit in the big chair. Like maybe doing the same thing in the last two debates, that he did in the first one, when he actually attacked Obama. Getting the Winter Olympics for Utah is only going to carry you so far, Romney.

            I’m interested in reading Agamammon’s opinion on the blueing of Arizona. My guess is that it’s due to a tidal wave of fleeing Californians and new immigrants from Latin America. I’ve no idea how Welch could think the LDS ties into it.

            1. The nomination of Romney was the epitome of how the neocon-run GOP operated–in an election year where the economy was still in the toilet, following the passage of a health insurance law that was highly controversial both in its content and how it was passed to begin with, and a legitimate mid-term populist wave that saw the party take back the House and nearly take back the Senate, who does the party leaders nominate?

              An oligarch that signed off on a similar healthcare bill while governor of one of the bluest states in the US. Despite all that, the populist-leaning base was willing to stick up for him as a candidate, but then he went and jobbed out to Obama without so much as a whimper of pushback, and couldn’t even swing the state that elected him governor.

              Romney’s defeat was the moment the neocons lost whatever remaining credibility they might have had in the GOP, and thus their hold on the party was severed from that point on. Pimping Jeb as the frontrunner in 2016 simply completed the break, and all those guys are now firmly in the Democratic camp because those are the people paying their bills. It certainly doesn’t have anything to do with “principle,” that’s for fucking sure.

              1. This x 10000

              2. Preach brother.

              3. I’ll add on that this pattern indicates that Dubya was probably controlled opposition as well–a sacrificial lamb to the VP of a relatively popular President in a great economy–but Gore fucked it all up when he lost Tennessee, and then 9/11 happened.

                1. Slightly disagree. I think Dole in 96 was the GOP’s sacrificial lamb. The GOP in 2000 I believe really wanted to win the Presidency. Dubya for all of his verbal screw ups, was fairly charismatic in 2000 even managing to charm Oprah.

                  Bush was a popular Two Term Governor from Texas with a solid pedigree. Moreover, the GOP hated Bill Clinton back then with a passion. Allowing Gore to win would’ve solidified Clinton’s legacy as the Democrats’ Reagan (despite Clinton’s moral failings). It also doesn’t particularly look good for National Party to lose three Presidential Elections in a row. Especially when just eight years prior a strong third party candidate pulled close to 20% of the vote.

                  In regards to Gore, he was as charismatic as a tree. To me Gore seemed to be trying to lose whether it was picking Joe Lieberman over Jeane Shaheen (NH) or Bob Graham (FL) or flip flopping on whether he should distance himself from Slick Willie or embrace him.

              4. Yes. This. Jeb was definitely the catalyst for me to flip to Trump.

                Romney made me frustrated. Jeb made me pissed off.

                But I thought R political advisors were Democrat hacks since McCain.

      4. Integrity?

        In 2012, I was assured that Romney was a woman hating Nazi that despised poor people and wanted them to die.

        What changed? How did he manage to win back his integrity?

      5. lol dude no politician has integrity.

        1. Many, maybe most, politicians don’t have integrity, but it is not all.

      6. The only people who think Romney has integrity are his PR reps. And they’re paid to think that. Romney is an opportunist. Just because he voted the way you wanted on a farce impeachment doesn’t change the fact that he’s a Nazi racist bully.

        1. Mittens, for all his faults, isn’t a Nazi racist bully. He’s nice, and he doesn’t have a spine.

          We have Trump today in no small part because Republicans tried nice, but were hammered for it. Thus, many Republicans said “screw it, we’ll go for the wrecking ball”.

          As Romney has shown, it doesn’t matter who the Republicans put up for President, they are going to be called Nazi racist bullies. The term has no meaning as a result.

  7. And as ever, the biggest blocs of anti-Trump sentiment on the right are coming from Mormons, foreign policy interventionists, and libertarians (and various combinations thereof)… Should Trump lose, the question will transition to: Can those groups be reconciled?

    Most of the foreign policy interventionists, aka neocons, are all voting for Democrats this year. They’re effectively out of the party now because the only things they ever cared about were militarism and tax cuts. McCain constantly sucking up to Democrats, followed by Romney acting like a spineless puss, is what resulted in the current realignment taking place.

    The Mormons were a small but reliable block of the Religious Right, and them going over to the party of Hollywood degenerates and 1534 genders/sexual identities would be the most 2020 event ever.

    1. 1534 genders/sexual identities

      That’s 1619 genders/sexual identities, bigot. Anything else is racist.

  8. It’s hilarious reason koch editors think Trump could lose Arizona because of Mormons. The absolute blind loyalty to unfettered immigration that is actually turning Arizona blue just cannot occur to your minds apparently.

    Anyway, Trump can lose Arizona and still win. The real problem is losing a Senate seat to a rabid anti 2A candidate.

    1. I think it’s safe to assume Trump has Arizona locked up after this embarrassing but hilarious news report about a Biden rally that took place in Phoenix over the weekend.

      https://www.independentsentinel.com/report-no-one-went-to-arizona-event-headlined-by-biden-harris/

    2. Exactly! Yet Reason doesn’t address the risk. The Koch agenda revealed, right? Open borders forever! 2A…not so much.

  9. While many Mormons don’t like Trump personally, they support far more of his economic, international affairs and environmental policies (than policies advocated by Democrats).

    1. They may say they don’t like him, so they think they don’t appear bigoted and hateful. They like his hate and bigotry, but don’t like how blunt it is.
      He could talk all kinds of shit about Mormons, but they’ll vote for him.
      Many of them ask themselves “Will Biden or Trump allow us to convert more people and get more tax dollars for our schools and churches?” Answer Trump.
      Biden at least might do the right thing and stop letting the LDS Church be tax exempt. If their “charity” is only given to people who accept their fucked up religion it shouldn’t count as charity. People stupid enough to give 10% of more of their income to those shitbags shouldn’t be allowed to deduct it.
      The LDS Church isn’t a charitable organization. At best it’s a bunch of idiots teaching fantasy stories to other idiots.
      At worst it’s a bunch of greedy old con artists scamming people to stupid to realize the religion is a crock of shit. Either way they cause way, way more harm than good, if any the produce. No tax breaks for shitbags!!!

      1. Show us on the doll where the bad Mormon tried to talk to you about his church.

        1. I would never let a Mormon near me. They aren’t hard to outsmart. They believe in magic underwear for christ fucking sake.

      2. Dude kill all rednecks – you really do know about Mormons – I’m impressed. Indeed their 100 billion is alleged to give zero charity, and instead uses tithing funds to bail out an insurance company and build a 2.1 billion dollar mall.

        The Mormon leaders need to be exposed and the tax exempt status removed. But they’re recent dick sucking of the Catholic Church sounds like they are going to beg the Catholics to defend the Mormon corporation so that there isn’t a precedent set about removing exemptions from religions.

        Religion is a steaming pile of shit. Those indoctrinated deserve to be ripped off. Fuck em.

  10. The Democrats said Romney was a dog killer and gave a woman cancer. Yet, somehow the loss of civility is Trump’s fault. Romney is just pathetic.

    1. This observation may blow your mind, but I’m going to lay it on you: It’s possible that both Democrats and Republicans lack civility.

      1. …except Romney blamed Trump specifically.

        Making me wonder if all the “cheap shots” against him in 2012 were actually the truth.

  11. Did this article make KillAllRedNecks head explode?

    1. Are you LDS? Is MT short for Montana? Used to live there. Beautiful. Problem is outside of the towns it gets rural and backwards quick. I’m talking like the movie Deliverance. There’s a lot of white trash, inbred, right wing, Trump loving lunatics there. Boy them folks are fucking stupid.

      1. Compared to you, they’re Einstein and Galileo rolled into one. Even the ones on the Crow reservation who can live in abject poverty are the equivalent of NASA scientists when stacked up against you.

        1. Youre the one defending backwards, inbred rednecks.

          I’m smarter than you.
          My life has more value than yours because I don’t support evil, backwards mormons.

          It’s a compliment to me that inbred right wing loons don’t like me.

  12. Having always lived in places with high relative LDS populations, I have been struck by how libertarian they individually live and think about government. Of course, their history of state persecution gave them a strong lesson in the reality of government’s basic nature. Where LDSers differ most from Libertarians are in matters of private religion and morals and these are, or at least should, not be matters of government or even politics.

    Maybe we Libertarians should start going door to door among Mormons with our pamphlets and spiels like the Mormon Missionary kids do among us with theirs. That the “Mormon Country” of the inland West is so libertarian but not even more Libertarian may be largely our own messaging problem.

    1. The thing about mormons is they promote community which insulates them and makes them less dependent on government. The community cares for itself, not the government.

      Other christian sects do not have that kind of community and don’t know how to build it. But even if they did, libertarians and leftists and even some republicans would not let them be the next mormon or amish community.

    2. I’ll just preach libertarianism to the missionaries next time they come by. 😉

      1. “I’ll just preach libertarianism to the missionaries next time they come by.”

        My devout SDA grandmother kept a stack of her church’s literature near her door for the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. I do not know if she ever converted any.

        1. I always answer the door naked and invite the missionaries back for some PCP and a human sacrifice. Make sure to ask if they’re still virgins.

      2. Libertarianism = Free Agency, which is a Church doctrine.

        1. ^this^

          Free agency is church doctrine and political neutrality is church policy. It doesn’t hurt that they have a natural distrust of the government from prior persecution in the form of an Order of Extermination from the governor of Missouri.

          I married a Mormon and both of my boys served missions and both of them identify as Libertarian. Teaching libertarianism to Mormon missionaries is like preaching to the choir.

          1. Ive never encountered libertarian Mormons because theres no such thing Chuck!
            How do you feel about the war on drugs?
            Most Mormons support it because they’re goddamn tyrants.
            Fuck your pedo con artist worshipping family Chuck. I hope your missionary sons die! Fuck them trying to force your stupid, wrong, bullshit religion on others.

            Why didnt your church allow blacks before 1978?
            Why does you magic underwear (temple garments) have weird symbols on them?

            Fuck you and your stupid fucking church Chuck. If there is a hell you’re going to fucking fry for worshipping pedophiles and trying to force it on others

            Tell your cunt wife she deserves to be raped, impregnated, and forced abotion.
            You people need to stop breeding like rabbits you backwards, inbred, savages.

          2. Mormons are a rotten group(I don’t consider them people. Somewhere between a deadly bacteria and a venerial disease). Rotten to their goddamn core. They refuse to change AND STOP FORCING THEIR FUCKED UP BELIEFS ON EVERYONE. Since they won’t stop and breed like fucking rabbits in an attempt to outnumber everyone, they must be stopped. I refuse to live in a world where people who worship pedophiles have any power. What they believe is goddamn disgusting. Fuck them and fuck the people defending them.

            You people defending these scumbags are disgusting. Defending people who celebrate pedophiles. Have you no shame? Mormons don’t.

            1. You posted this copypasta already, goofy.

              1. And you have no counter argument to it?

                Fuck Mormons and fuck the scumbags defending them.

        2. Mormons like to talk about “free agency,” but they don’t really believe in it.
          They want to force their beliefs on everyone. That’s not free agency. That’s not libertarian.
          Libertarians would not have state run alcohol stores and have so few of them it makes it impractical for many to buy alcohol. Libertarians would not have the tobacco age be 19. If you can vote or die for your country you should be able to buy tobacco(alcohol too).

          Mormons are obsessed with appearing as persecuted, suffering christ like people, but who turn the other cheek and are compassionate.
          They lie about everything and lieabout that too. They think they’re libertarian, but their definition of libertarian is different from what a real libertarian’s definition is.

          Fuck Mormons.

          1. You keep saying that Mormons try to force their beliefs on others, but seeking to convince others of something you believe to be true isn’t the same as forcing the belief on others.

            If it is, then you need to get off this site: I’m sick and tired of you shoving your anti-Mormon and anti-Trump views down our throats.

    3. The reason the American west us not more big L libertarian has nothing to do with libertarian philosophy and everything to do with fat men in their underwear at national conventions. Also rags like this one actively arguing for social degeneracy on display in public as being libertarian instead of simply asking government to stay out of people’s bedrooms. No mormon wants a transgender book club for 5-year-olds at their public library.

      1. Libertarians would privatize that library. Don’t Mormons have enough cash to have their own libraries, where they can have their own rules?

  13. Almost half of Mormons actually follow their religion. I’m not sure if that’s comfort or not (maybe if you compare them to other Christians I suppose.)

    1. What do you mean almost half actually follow their religion? What are you referring to?

      You’re not LDS are you?

  14. more straws, more grasping.
    How does Utah vote historically?

    1. Excellent point and this shows the biggest fact the overall article lacks. Utah went 45% for Trump while Hillary and McMullin got around 20% a piece. While I am sure many Mormons admire Romney, they definitely support Trump on his economic agenda. Trump’s efforts on taxes, deregulation, and energy continue to be very good.

  15. Walsh should probably cruise some Mormon neighborhoods before he tries to repeat such claims.

    Or maybe he should sit in the middle of Salt Lake City (the least “Mormon” city in Utah) and try to count all of the Trump bumper stickers going by between 5PM and 6PM. He will have no trouble totaling up the Biden stickers. The only place in the state where these numbers approach parity is Park City, and most of those cars have out-of-state plates.

    Don’t make the mistake of thinking that Romney speaks for Latter-day Saints, any more than Joe Biden speak for Catholics.

    1. Salt lake city is such a shithole. Thanks to the Mormons you can’t have any fun. Fuck Mormons.

  16. I’ll tone down the “kill the mormons” rhetoric.

    Don’t worry the Mormons will still vote for Trump. No matter what they say. Mormons will publicly say they can’t support Trump, but they’ll vote for him. Tax cuts, right wing judges, less social safety net just appeals to them too much. They have no problem lying about it to try and appear like they aren’t ultra right wing stooges and have some compassion.
    Trump could shoot someone in Temple Square screaming “Fuck Mormons,” and most would vote for him.
    An authoritarian like Trump doesn’t come along very often so they need to seize the opportunity. Trump doesn’t drink, so they may think he’s sympathetic to their cause of banning alcohol.
    Mormons are scumbags. They should be ridiculed for their stupid beliefs, and harrassed for harrassing others.
    I don’t get why so many stick up for them. Is it because I’m not an ultra right winger so anything I don’t like must be good? Because they worship a pedo con artist and believe a bunch of historical events that never happened. By defending them you’re defending pedo con artist worshipping and the rewriting of history(It’s not anywhere close to accurate. The Book of Mormon should be considered fantasy). You’re just making yourself look dumb, and indirectly making the ultra far right look dumb(they do plenty of that already).

    Fuck Mormons and the people who defend them.

    1. Let the hate flow through you.

      1. Are you LDS?
        It’s not hate flowing through me. It’s common sense.
        What they believe is batshit crazy. Why defend it?
        “They’re free to believe whatever they want.”
        They are, but why do they want to force it on others? If I went to Utah and knocked on doors saying “I have this beer, and it changed my life. I am so grateful I found this beer and I want others to enjoy it,” what would they say?(I’d have to get really drunk if I went to Utah because it’s such a shithole and the people are so shitty) The thing is the beer I’d be talking about would be physically present. They could see it, feel it, even taste it. It’s real. Their God ISNT REAL. So I’d be more justified in going door to door for my beer than they are for their pedo con artist worshipping crock of shit faith.

        All the people on here defending them are only making themselves look dumb. Which in turn makes all the far right loons on here look dumb. They do that on their own, but defending con artist pedo worshippers doesn’t help.

        Fuck Mormons and fuck their defenders.

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          1. Great analysis Tulpa?

            Are you LDS?
            you’re defending con artist pedo worshippers. You don’t have the moral high ground.

            Why do you support pedophiles?

  17. “But if it’s 10 to 15 points off of the norm in Nevada and Arizona, that’s a big deal….It’s the equivalent of Republicans suddenly getting a quarter of the African American vote, and I do think it’s within the realm of possibility.”

    So….losing 10 to 15 percent of 6 percent of the votes is the same as gaining 25 percent of 15 percent of the vote? Is this the new woke math or does a black vote only count 3/5ths of a Mormon vote? How the hell did you figure this one out?

    1. You read that wrong. The GOP already gets ~10% of the black vote.

      1. Also the electorates of Nevada and Arizona are nowhere near 15% black. (A quick Google search shows the populations of those two states are approximately 9% and 4% black, respectively, the electorates presumably would be even less so.)

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  19. The Republican Party would be better without any and all religious zealots in it. That said, it will be hilarious if we get Real Communism under President Harris all because some fundies threw a temper tantrum because DJT promised to do what their silly fanfic says they’re supposed to do, and so they kept voting for that RINO carpet bagger and useless Constitution party candidates.

  20. “Mormon support for the Republican ticket dropped from 80 percent in 2004 and 78 percent in 2012, to 61 percent in 2016, even as most other Christians moved further to the right, according to Pew.”

    This analysis is so blindfolded it’s absurd. Duh, Romney? It’s not about Republicans, it’s about Romney!

    Also, Romney’s attack on Trump is undoubtedly personal.

  21. Romney was kind of liberal for Mormons, but he was Mormon and not black.
    It’s anecdotal, but I lived in shithole Utah around the 04 election. “80 percent in 2004, 78 in 2012.” Two percent is small, but conventional wisdom would have support go up in 2012 because Romney was LDS. The two percent drop then might be because Romney was liberal and didn’t have the Iraq war on his record. Almost every Mormon I met there was 100% pro war. The two Mormons who weren’t happened to be vets who had served in Iraq. One was waiting to be redeployed. Both supported it but would listen to criticism of the war and not insult the person. Every other Mormon would call anti-war people “un-american,” “you want the terrorists to win,” “coward,” and other not so nice things.
    My favorite was this little bitch LDS asshole(super stubborn and refused to listen to opposing views about anything like most mormons) said something like “Sean Penn and these other traitors go on TV undermining Bush with the number of troop deaths and civilian deaths… Haha, it’s a war dummy!?! PEOPLE DIE! They think they’re all noble but everyone outside of hollywood is laughing at them. Bush doesn’t tell them how to act. They shouldn’t tell him how to keep America safe.”
    I asked him if he knew anyone serving in Iraq or Afghanistan. He said it was none of my business.
    I fucking hated that little bitch. He was majoring in social work at BYU. Hopefully he didn’t become a social worker because hopefully he’s dead.

    1. Hypothesis: Utah Mormons are ultrapatriotic because, from the days of Deseret until well after Statehood the rest of the country was threatened by their tendency to try to identify the local, and if possible, state government with their church, (Theodemocracy) and, by the since abandoned practice of polygamy, outbreed everyone else in the neighborhood? That last charge was leveled at another once-untrusted group, Catholics. RCs were also accused of wanting secular government to be subordinate to religious power. Catholic families are nowhere near as large as they used to be, since so many of us are ex-Catholics and/or don’t follow the Vatican’s rules on contraception. LDS family size is still above average, but has dropped. https://religionnews.com/2019/06/15/the-incredible-shrinking-mormon-american-family/ Which means recruitment will be the only way to increase church numbers, at least in the US. It would help if their President received a “prophecy” disclaiming any unity of church and state, for good and all, the way the LDS flip-flopped on the worth of people of black African ancestry, maybe we “gentiles” might trust them more.

  22. Matt welch is a hack and supported beto boner.

    I will bet matt welch right now that Trump will win reelection and welch resign from unreason.

    1. When Trump loses what will you do?

  23. Romney is a senator, he can vote to convict the president, but not impeach him.

  24. Given that Utah actually voted in this idiot to be their Senator, it’s clear that mental retardation in that state is rampant due to generations of inbreeding.

    1. Everyone in Utah is related. Thats partly why they wanna force their bullshit religion on others so they can mix up the gene pool. Mostly because they’re fascist lunatics who worship pedophiles.

  25. I know I am merely an anecdote, but I am a Latter-day Saint, and I can’t stand President Trump, I did not vote for him the first time around (in the election where I was unable to bring myself to vote for Gary Johnson because he favored forcing people to bake cakes), and I was convinced that he was deliberately throwing the election and that he was going to be a Democrat anyway.

    This time around, though, President Trump had surprised me by his conservatism and deregulation; for the most part, he has stood up to the flames when criticism got intense; he has done all this, even when the Press has flat out lied repeatedly about him. The Democrats, to try to defeat this, have given us a literally demented politician who has the same moral quandaries that Trump does (only the Press defends him!) and has made it clear that Harris will almost certainly replace him — and she’s clearly not the moderate they make Biden out to be.

    This Mormon would be deeply surprised if Latter-day Saint votes prevents Trump from winning re-election.

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