Joe Biden

Joe Biden's Proposed Budget Would Hike Spending, Raise Taxes, and Further Inflate the National Debt

Biden is proposing about $3 trillion in new taxes, mostly on the rich, to pay for up to $11 trillion in new spending. That's a recipe for even bigger budget deficits.

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The national debt has reached levels not seen since the end of World War II, but Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden is calling for a combination of spending increases and tax hikes that will require trillions of dollars of additional borrowing in the next 10 years.

Biden is calling for more than $3 trillion in new taxes that would be imposed primarily on corporations and the wealthiest Americans. But two recent analyses of Biden's spending plans agree that his proposals would not come close to paying for themselves over 10 years. If enacted, Biden's plans would push federal spending to higher highs while also adding to the national debt—which is already on pace to eclipse the size of the entire American economy next year.

The Penn Wharton Budget Model, a nonpartisan organization within the University of Pennsylvania's business school, crunched the numbers and concluded that Biden's proposed tax increases would cost Americans about $3.4 trillion over 10 years. To get there, Biden would repeal some of President Donald Trump's tax cuts for high earners, raise income taxes on the very highest earners, tax capital gains at the same rate as other income, raise the corporate tax rate, and institute a series of changes to the payroll taxes that fund mandatory spending on entitlements like Social Security.

Cumulatively, Biden's tax plans would not raise taxes on households that earn less than $400,000 per year, the Wharton analysis concludes, though lower-earning households would likely see knock-on effects like "lower investment returns and wages as a result of corporate tax increases."

Those huge tax increases, however, wouldn't be sufficient to cover the cost of the new spending Biden has proposed. The Wharton analysis says Biden plans to hike spending by $5.35 trillion over 10 years, with the largest piles of new federal outlays going toward education ($1.9 trillion) and infrastructure ($1.6 trillion). Biden has also called for $1.6 trillion in new health care spending—mostly by expanding the Affordable Care Act's health insurance subsidies and lowering the eligibility age for Medicare from 65 to 60—but his campaign plans to offset some of that new spending by saving money on the federal government's purchases of prescription drugs.

If enacted—and that, of course, depends on whether Biden wins November's elections and whether he can get Congress to go along with these proposals afterward—Biden's budget, the Wharton analysis says, would push federal spending to 24 percent of gross domestic product, a rough estimate for the overall size of the U.S. economy. Excluding temporary stimulus spending passed in 2009 and again this year to combat economic downturns, the federal budget has not consumed that large of a share of the economy since World War II.

And, actually, the Wharton analysis might be an overly rosy assessment.

"I think they missed a lot," says Brian Riedl, former chief economist to Sen. Rob Portman (R–Ohio) who's now a senior fellow at the fiscally conservative Manhattan Institute. On Twitter, Riedl explained that the Wharton analysis of Biden's spending plans seems to ignore huge amounts of money that the campaign has promised to spend. The spending that's left out of the Wharton report is mostly temporary—like the additional $3 trillion that Biden wants to spend on coronavirus relief efforts—rather than being part of the long-term budget.

That $3 trillion is roughly in line with what House Democrats passed in May, though the spending package has not moved forward in the Republican-controlled Senate. Biden didn't explicitly propose that spending, but he has endorsed it. The Wharton report also gives Biden credit for planned prescription drug cost savings that Riedl says may not materialize. Additionally, the report does not count other one-time spending like Biden's proposed $125 billion to combat the opioid epidemic.

Add it all up, as Riedl did recently for a post at The Dispatch, and Biden's budget would hike government spending by $11 trillion over 10 years. On the tax side, Riedl's view is closer to what Wharton says: He expected Biden's proposals to generate about $3.6 trillion in new taxes over 10 years.

It's true that Biden's plans are less expensive than what some other Democrats proposed during this year's primary campaign, but that fact mostly serves to illuminate just how wildly unserious those other proposals were. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) called for roughly $40 trillion in new spending, while Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) wanted to add almost $100 trillion.

But Biden's tax and spending proposals only look moderate in comparison to those outlandish ones. When stacked up against other recent Democratic nominees' budget plans, Biden's is far more expensive—he's proposing more than twice as much new spending as Hillary Clinton did in 2016, the Wall Street Journal notes. Even if he's not fully supporting Sanders-level budgetary insanity, there is no doubt Biden has been pulled leftward this year.

You don't need a fancy calculator to do the math: Biden is proposing to raise taxes by an exorbitant amount—more than $3 trillion dollars, the largest tax hike in decades—and spending by an even larger amount. The result, of course, is more debt.

Riedl calls that approach "breathtakingly irresponsible" given the country's current fiscal condition. Social Security and other entitlements are steamrolling toward insolvency and the national debt is already on pace to reach $35 trillion by the end of the decade without any new spending. As the debt grows, interest payments on it grow, too—and if interest rates rise, you can add another $500 billion ($3,600 per American household) for each percentage point.

It's also true, of course, that Trump has done a terrible job of managing the country's finances. Even if you ignore the emergency coronavirus spending, Trump has authorized a $937 billion increase in government spending in just four years—a larger increase than the one President Barack Obama presided over during his eight years in office.

Trump is clearly no fiscal conservative, but Biden is promising even more profligacy.

"Essentially, Biden and the Democrats are gambling that building the largest government debt in world history will not endanger the economy, and that interest rates will remain low forever," writes Riedl. "If they are wrong, the costs to taxpayers and in economic growth could be devastating."

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  1. But coal miners will finally learn to code.

    1. I’m glad to see Joe Biden has embraced fiscal conservatism! He’s got my vote this November!

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      2. “fiscal conservatism”??? OH, is that the new word for criminal THEFT?

        “Sorry officer; I wasn’t stealing that mans car I was being ‘fiscally conservative’.” — Lefties are loaded with criminal intentions.

    2. Coal miners should learn to journolist first.

    3. Just in time to be replaced by AI.

      1. I doubt AI will be coding on its own any time soon. More likely, AI will be used for automatic code generation after the requirements are explicitly specified by an experienced coder.

        1. nMore likely, AI will be used for automatic code generation after the requirements are explicitly specified by an experienced AI coder..

          1. So, the singularity? Because that’s what the singularity is.

            At that point, when AI is doing your coding, you’re probably already dead.

        2. And for managing our nuclear weapons systems. Eventually they will let it supervise the manufacture of killer robots. For,our benefit of course.

    4. Coal miners shouldn’t have to learn to code. Only journalists!

      1. don’t feed Chipper

    5. Trump administration policies added 1 trillion per year between his 2016 inauguration and Dec 31, 2019 for a total of three trillion prior to pandemic-induced emergency spending. I expect the debt to enlarge regardless of who is elected President.

      https://www.newsweek.com/under-trumps-administration-americas-national-debt-has-increased-nearly-7-trillion-1532352

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  2. “If they are wrong, the costs to taxpayers and in economic growth could will be devastating.”
    Let’s face it, they are always wrong.

  3. lower-earning households would likely see knock-on effects like “lower investment returns and wages as a result of corporate tax increases.”
    Those corporations have vaults full of cash. They can pay their fair share while still paying a living wage and keeping prices low. Congress should include language in the tax law that prohibits businesses from passing along expenses to customers and employees.

    1. law that prohibits businesses from passing along expenses to customers and employees.

      I’m sure it will be just as successful as the laws that prohibit prostitution, heroine sales and music piracy.

    2. Joe Schmoe pays one way or the other. Even things that seem distant from the average consumer or would-be worker, like less investment in R&D, slower production, and delay of expansion projects or new investments will eventually translate into less job opportunities and higher cost of goods and services in the market.

    3. By the way, the corporate tax isn’t just about “corporations” and big businesses; it taxes all businesses, most of which are not big, and most which don’t have the vaults of cash you’re talking about.

  4. “If they are wrong, the costs to taxpayers and in economic growth could be devastating.”

    At which point we will finally have proof that capitalism has failed, and we’ll need to try a revolutionary new approach to remaking society. Sounds like a win-win for progressives.

    1. Let’s face reality a little shall we. The U.S. has been cutting back capitalism for years. The commie progressives is what will cause economical collapse.

  5. Hey all of ye Reasonoid readers! Do NOT bother to read this article! Do NOT bother to read (or read about) ANY links, facts, or logic contained in this article and video! Do NOT bother to trouble your pretty little heads about silly factual details gathered by useless Reason-writer eggheads!

    Because I, the SMARTEST ONE, can “summarize” it ALL for you! Here it is, above article summarized: “Senile Mackerel Snapper Bad”!

    (/Sarc, revenge for moronic “summaries” about “Orange Man Bad”)

    1. How many times are you going to copy and paste into threads today, Sqrls?

      1. Until I stop reading smug, arrogant posters putting up “Orange Man Bad”, and then scurrying back underneath their rocks, and thinking that they have said ANYTHING of substance!

        1. You like tilting at windmills?

          1. When the windmills are stupid, smug, and arrogant, they should at least be TOLD that they are stupid, smug, and arrogant! Once every ten trillion years or so, one of them MIGHT actually LISTEN when they are told that they are stupid, smug, and arrogant!!!

            1. SQRLSY goes full racist.

              https://reason.com/2020/09/15/viral-videos-show-georgia-deputies-beating-a-passenger-for-not-having-a-drivers-license/#comment-8459766

              SQRLSY One
              September.15.2020 at 11:14 am
              All young black males have felony arrest warrants out for them…

              SQRLSY is such a gross racist

              1. The only black thing he likes is his editions shit.

            2. Take your f’n meds Hihn. And no bullshit about Tim the Enchanter.

              1. THANK you!

              2. Obviously, you are a silver-tongued orator, and you also know how to translate your spectacular talents to the written word! We at Reason have need for writers like you, who have near-magical persuasive powers, without having to write at great, tedious length, or resorting to boring facts and citations.

                Please send your resume, and another sample of your writings, along with your salary or fee demands, to ReasonNeedsBrilliantlyPersuasiveWriters@Reason.com .

                1. “Out time” is over now. Leave the dayroom computer and return to your (padded) room.

                  Sicko freak.

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              3. He’s not fucking Hihn! Hihn died of the Chicom flu months ago.

                There *is* more than one mentally ill person in the world dontcha know.

        2. You should really set yourself on fire. That would be funny.

    2. When he died did Hihn bequeath his naughty lists to you?

      1. Most right-wing nut-jobs and Hitler-the-Shitler-dick-suckers here have repeatedly told me that I am Hihn… Now Hihn is dead, yet here I (Hihn) am! I MUST be a revenge-lusting zombie from beyond the grave!!! Arisen from the dead! Here to to suck yer brains out!

        Ye better run and hide! Crawl back under yer rocks! Or at the VERY least, STOP POSTING HERE!!!

        1. Better find an exorcist to get the Hihn out of you pronto.

        2. You’re just a nasty racist and bigot, whoever you are.

      2. Most right-wing nut-jobs and Hitler-the-Shitler-dick-suckers here have repeatedly told me that I am Hihn… Now Hihn is dead, yet here I (SQRLSY = Hihn) am! I MUST be a revenge-lusting zombie from beyond the grave!!! Arisen from the dead! Here to to suck yer brains out!

        Ye better run and hide! Crawl back under yer rocks! Or at the VERY least, STOP POSTING HERE!!! It only draws the attention of evil brain-sucking zombies like me! Run and hide, if ye know what’s good fer ye!

        1. SQRLSY One
          July.2.2020 at 5:11 pm
          Port-a-potties ARE buffets

          LOL

      3. I didn’t know that fucker died! Here’s hoping Squirrely follows suit.

  6. I’m just going to put this out here if Biden wins it’s the end of the republic in the next 5 years. The economic carnage that’s already been unleashed has yet to be meeted out as you have people barely hanging hoping the lockdowns end soon. The level of bailout that’s going to be required to bail out the municipalities and state’s is going to dwarf 2009 by a significant scale that doesn’t even include the money already pissed away on stimulus. Trump might do the same thing but it’s not a sure thing.

    1. The 2022 Senate races are currently showing 6 GOP seats as
      competitive vs. 3 Dem. So it could get a lot worse for a while.
      When Biden wins, the Tea Party better come back stronger than ever to take back the House in 2022. The problem will be stopping all the crap that the Biden Admin will get passed in 2020-2022 (which, as we all know, will be nigh impossible to repeal.)

      1. The demographics are not with you on this. The GOP has shot itself in the foot with Trump. Rather than try to expand its base and appeal to women and minorities, the GOP went all in with Trump to strengthen its base and make it more fervent in its support. But they aren’t making any more boomers. It’s really the bright flash before the flame goes out. They could have pivoted away from the culture war and focus on economic issues, but then they wouldn’t be conservatives, would they? Conservatives never cared that much about fiscal issues as an end in itself. Rather, fiscal issues were a means to promote their side of the culture war.

        1. Appeal more to women and minorities? What, with more spending that they want? Because Republicans are trying that right now and it doesn’t seem to be working.

          The idea that women and minorities want fiscal conservatism is betrayed by how they actually vote, friend.

          1. All the more reason to take their right to vote away, amirite?

            1. I would take away the right of those who don’t contribute to the common pot.

              1. Well everyone pays taxes. Well, not Amazon, but the poor people you want to disenfranchise do.

                1. Ok Superspreader.

        2. hey dumbfuck… trump has expanded his base with minorities. Over 20% with African Americans. Mid 40s w Latinos.

          How are you so fucking ignorant?

    2. Lol, no. We’ll be fine. If we survived Trump, we’ll survive Biden.

      1. So, no improvement then?

      2. no team chipper with more astute neutral talking points straight from the MSM.

  7. Well, you’ve forgotten that Biden will institute a strict policy of rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse of government spending which will save ickety billion dollars, just like all the other dozens of times the government has targeted waste, fraud, and abuse.

    1. Saving a hundred billion dollars would be nice, but it’s literally just a rounding error when you plan to increase spending by eleven trillion.

    2. “waste, fraud, and abuse”

      “You rang?” – Hunter Biden.

      1. Actually, “Waste, fraud and abuse” was my nickname in college.

        (In before any of you bring it up: At the time I was convinced that the Oxford comma was the tool of the Devil.)

    3. It’s funny how no matter how much waste, fraud and abuse they eliminate there’s always more waste, fraud and abuse to be eliminated. It’s almost as if the entire government is….

  8. Whats Trumps proposed budget? financially we are screwed either way but at least sometimes Trump believes in peoples rights.

    1. Trump is willing to kill his own supporters for a photo op. Whose rights does he respect?

      1. Oh yeah, sending your supporters to riot and loot is totes safe, but a political rally is killing grandma.

        1. Herman Cain says Trump belongs in the nine nine ninth circle of hell.

          Liberals being hypocrites doesn’t absolve Trump
          of his crimes.

          1. The only crime is collapsing the global economy over Covid. The Swedish were right.

            1. You people need to be kept as far away from moral norms as humanly possible.

              1. You don’t know any moral norms, Tony.

                1. Don’t kill hundreds of thousands of people because you are too stupid and lazy to do the job you were elected for. Is that one?

                  1. Don’t kill hundreds of thousands of people because you are too stupid and lazy to do the job you were elected for. Is that one?

                    I’m glad you know that one. You should tell Cuomo.

                    1. Cuomo fucking up the initial response doesn’t automatically make Trump a better leader.

                      The talking points are just sad at this point. Not as sad as I hope you are when Trump loses the election.

                      When you advocate mass death via stupidity and tribalism, you lose my liberal sympathy. I want you all to suffer.

                    2. Cuomo fucking up the initial response doesn’t automatically make Trump a better leader.

                      In these United States, it’s the state governors, not the president, who are supposed to ensure the welfare of their citizens.

                      State governments are supposed to have leeway and experiment. The NY government screwed up badly, and that’s only on them.

                      The president is supposed to be responsible for national defense, tariffs, and international treaties, little more.

                      When you advocate mass death via stupidity and tribalism, you lose my liberal sympathy. I want you all to suffer.

                      You’re not a liberal, your a leftist authoritarian, and true to form, yuo advocate “mass death via stupidity and tribalism”.

                    3. So by your reasoning, the president is not to blame no matter how much he meddles in other things and no matter how much he fucks the world? Will that still be the case under Biden? Was it the case under Obama?

              2. Superspreader, you’re the most immoral person here. With the one exception of Kiddie Raper.

          2. “Crimes”? Like telling everybody to come down to Chinatown? Like calling travel bans racist? Oh, wait, that was your jackbooted thug heroes.

            Choke on your face diaper Tony.

            1. You have such a small, stupid little brain.

              1. Lol. Says the little creep who’s convinced global warming will kill every cell of life on earth.

                1. Is it a success story if a single species of bacteria survives?

                  1. Doubling down on the stupidity. It’s a bold move Tony — definitely not for the faint of heart.

                  2. If that’s your concern, you don’t know anything about biology or ecology.

                    1. Apparently my concern is the fate of every living cell on earth and not just the human species, and probably other such straw men.

                    2. Every living cell? Don’t you support abortion? So you’re lying to appear virtuous.

                    3. Pious ignorance is Tony’s specialty.

                    4. Apparently my concern is the fate of every living cell on earth and not just the human species, and probably other such straw men.

                      Well, lucky then that according to the president’s own report, climate change will mean only a modest decrease in economic output by 2100, not massive die offs of species.

                      And by “the president”, I’m referring to Obama.

      2. Kill his own supporters? You fucking terrified moron. You really believe that.

        “His supporters” made an informed choice FOR THEMSELVES. (Which wasn’t a hard choice to make for most of them, considering that *one* person 35 and under in this whole miserable country died of Chicom flu the last week of August.) *If* any of them actually die (again, NOT likely — only ONE Chicom flu death has been attributed to the 400,000 person Sturgis rally, and that was a 65 year old man with preexisting health complications), it would have been due to their own choice. NOT Trump’s.

        You’re a despicable person.

        1. “Informed” is doing a lot of work here.

          1. I bow down before the ineffable subtlety of your devastating rebuttal.

          2. Seriously, why do you post here? People cream you with facts and all you can come up with for a counter is some snide remark. Don’t you have any self respect?

            1. Are they really informed when Trump has been doing his best to misinform them? I mean he admitted to it on tape.

  9. ENB: “Boehm’s gone off the reservation.”
    Nick: *sigh* “I’ll get the tranquilizer gun.”

    It’s also true, of course, that Trump has done a terrible job of managing the country’s finances.

    ENB: “Never mind, Nick. He’s fine.”

    1. Nick: But I already got out the tranq gun… seems a shame not to use it…

      1. Nick share tranqs?

        Make your fiction believable at least please.

    2. no, it’s okay for Reason writers to criticize Democrats for spending too much, to prove they are libertarians. Of course, they can’t endorse Trump because of all the problematic social and immigration issues.

    3. I mean, it is true. He took on more debt this year than any other president ever. All because he didn’t have the guts to stick to his guns about COVID. He should have recommended the same path that Sweden took and then told the Dem Governors that the federal government wouldn’t rescue them. If they decided to lock down their economies then they would have to live with the consequences of that decision. But no. He signed a huge and wasteful emergency spending bill and proved once and for all that he doesn’t care about deficits or debt.

  10. Biden is proposing about $3 trillion in new taxes, mostly on the rich, to pay for up to $11 trillion in new spending.

    Water is wet.
    Fire is hot.

    1. Water can also be hot.

      1. equally as mind-blowing as “paying for $11 million with $3 million”

        1. It only works when it’s trillions.

          1. oh fuck you’re right. i see now.

      2. What the fuck does – mostly on the rich – actually mean?

        1. It means mostly on the middle class.

        2. “mostly on the rich” = “mostly productive”
          Nothing better than pretending that we all HATE the hard work and brilliance that gives us resources in an attempt to justify MORE-THEFT policy that will allow dead-weight to compulsively steal from hard work & brilliance. Lefty Goalpost = Re-enact SLAVERY!

          Its amazing how the party of slavery has deceived the world to believe they’re still not ALL ABOUT slavery.

          1. Who are you going to tax if not the productive people? Bums historically don’t have much to steal.

            1. Not stealing is kinda the point.

  11. I’m not promoting Joe Biden or his presumptive president in waiting Herr Harris as paragons of fiscal virtue but when has the “””budget””” a president proposed during an election ever been implemented? Actually, scratch that. When’s the last time a president’s proposed budget was ever implemented. Actually, scratch that. When’s the last time a congressional budget was enacted?

    1. A 2020 budget was passed by Congress and signed by the President. Congress has failed to pass a budget in the past particularly from 2011 to 2015. Passing separate appropriations on time is another matter.

    2. You’re right, but it does reveal the candidate’s priorities. This shows that Biden knows dollars have no value and therefore debts and deficits don’t matter. If a candidate came in with a proposed budget that massively cut spending and trimmed the debt by, say, a trillion dollars, that would say something very different about priorities.

      You can look at proposed budgets as a starting point for negotiations with Congress. If your starting point is massive spending and Congress’ starting point is also massive spending, then you know both sides are going to settle on massive spending. If they are on opposite ends of the spectrum, though, there’s a chance that something responsible will come out.

  12. Oh please! What Partisan BS. Making up stupid about something that has not happened. But if you want to look at real budgets look at what repuplicans have spent for the last 30 years.

    1. Speaking of partisan BS…

      You don’t seem to want to admit that those figures came straight from the Biden campaign.

    2. Get up off of your knees.

      1. Dude, what happened to you. You used to be somewhat libertarian. Now criticizing the increases in federal spending under Republican administrations is living on your knees?

        1. I think he knew it was your sockpuppet and that you make money sucking dick.

        2. I usually reserve that comment for overt marxists. However, this troll’s whataboutism deserved it.

          I’m still somewhat libertarian.

        3. And we all agree you were never libertarian. Just a leftist with anarchist tendencies.

    3. You mean like Obamacare or Cash for Clunkers or endless foreign wars with overwhelming bipartisan approval ?

    4. “look at real budgets look at what repuplicans have spent for the last 30 years”

      I’m looking; it shows Democrats have spent TONS more. Golly Obama’s ARPA Act dumped out a trillion all by itself we won’t even go into ALL the spending FDR did.

  13. Here we are in the same creaky merry-go-round. Republican give ludicrously unfair tax giveaways to favored interests, their libertarian enablers whine that you can’t rescind any of those giveaways because it wer terk er jerbs, a hypothesis supported by absolutely zero evidence. Still, no evidence that raising taxes costs jobs. None. You can’t hang everything on that social concern, false and disingenuous though it may be coming from Koch agents.

    1. There will be abundant jobs in the workers’ paradise.

    2. The road to prosperity is paved with more taxes.

      1. Just smaller deficits.

        1. Ok! Cut spending!

        2. Tony’s still pretending that Schumer and Pelosi didn’t have anything to do with that.

    3. The Green New Deal solves all of those problems.

    4. It’s almost like a nuanced scale exists between the amount of taxes and the negative impact that will occur rather than a binary issue. I know this must be hard for you because snarky one liners aren’t easy when you actually frame issues correctly, but maybe we should try more of the former if we are serious about actually addressing the issues.

    5. Still pissed they haven’t enacted gay marriage dowries?

      1. Assuming Tony would be the one to GET the dowry. I think that determines which bunk you bunk on.

        1. Tony has admitted he is fat and bald and incapable of attracting a man.

          No seriously I’m not shit talking, ask him.

          1. “No fatties, no femmes, no blacks”

            Tony’s still got a 33% chance of getting a date on Grindr.

            1. I really don’t know why he said it and it seemed like such a genuine and painful admission for him that even I only broke his balls about it for like one day

              1. You called me fat and I played like this was the one way to chink my armor and took a bunch of fake offense. Maybe it wasn’t the tightest game, but that’s ok because I can always go admire my amazing body and hair in the mirror.

                1. It’s amazing all right, but more in a circus sideshow kinda way.

                  1. If you want to try to out-Tulpa Tulpa, you’re going to have to spend at least 10 days not showering and eating hair.

          2. At least Tony has known a man’s love. You only wish you would get to know a man’s love.

            1. Thank you but no I’m not interested in dating you.

              1. Chipper seems way too nostalgic about his time with buttplug

            2. Weird flex

          3. Aren’t you getting a bit long in the tooth to be such a feckless psychopath? I bet you haven’t even graduated from killing and fucking small defenseless animals.

            1. Ouch, you’re supermad.
              Tulpa obviously touched a nerve.

    6. The party of science has no use for logic.

    7. Very good point. There’s no reason to believe that allowing companies to keep their own money results in them expanding and creating new jobs, nor is there any reason to expect less of that activity when their profits are raped by Uncle Sam. Nope. Only an idiot would believe nonsense like that.

      1. You are the ones complaining about the deficit. Do you think just one day out of the year you could do it while not being lying disingenuous assholes who want to impose a bunch of radical programs on everyone against their will?

        1. We’re not complaining about the deficit, were complaining about high taxes.

    8. “ludicrously unfair tax giveaways”

      What the fuck is a “tax giveaway”?

      Is that where they give me my taxes back? So unfair.

      1. Not taking is giving and not giving is taking.

        So lowering taxes equals the government giving money away, and cutting government services equals the government taking something away.

        Don’t you know anything?

        1. “Not stealing is giving” — lol… Perfectly stated. It really doesn’t matter what XYZ excuse party politics wants to play; UNLESS that STOLEN money is used for US Constitutional designated powers it’s no different than an armed crook stealing money.

          Lefties sure love being crooks.

      2. It is if you are still enjoying the public services they pay for. If you want anarchy, go live somewhere that practices it for a while. Eat pray love the fuck out of some anarchy somewhere, and then come back and let me know how terrible paying taxes is.

        1. I did try this. Every time I moved to a lower tax country/state, roads, infrastructure, education, and government services improved.

          1. Hm, where I live there seems to be a clear correlation between property tax revenues and school quality. The roads tend to be better in those neighborhoods too, for some reason.

            1. Let’s take California. You are correct that the politically powerful and connected Democrats in places like Palo Alto have managed to get some really nice schools and infrastructure for themselves. Yet, California’s education system, road, and infrastructure are sh*t, despite having the highest taxes in the country.

              So, you are seeing systemic corruption, massive misuse of fund, poor performance, and high taxes, all simultaneously in these kinds of states.

              1. So you have a problem with corruption in government.

                No, what’s that? You are here doing butt work for the most corrupt politician in the history of America and all the revolting goons around him as they oversee mass death, stoke race war for political gain, and sabotage the election?

        2. Not making STEALING legal = anarchy?
          That’s the very root evil of the lefty mind.
          POWER to STEAL = Wealth
          -instead of-
          VALUE = Wealth & POWER = justice.

          lefties have it locked in their heads that
          POWER = Wealth and that leaves no room for individual justice or freedom and once that POWER has consumed ALL value it will eat itself. History 101; the evidence is utterly undeniable.

    9. Still, no evidence that raising taxes costs jobs. None

      It’s amazing how stupid left wingers are.

      1. Let them prove it; Instead of touting “Tax the Rich” how about “Tax the Government”

        95% tax rate on all government agencies/employees. After all, “Still, no evidence that raising taxes will cost any government jobs/services.”

    10. RepublicansDemocrats give ludicrously unfair tax giveaways to favored interests,

      FTFY

      Still, no evidence that raising taxes costs jobs. None.

      Typical left wing straw man. No, raising taxes doesn’t “cost jobs” in the sense of reducing the total number of jobs. In fact, even the lowliest socialist shithole has plenty of jobs: shitty jobs, dangerous jobs, pointless jobs, unproductive jobs. The kinds of jobs you and Biden want to condemn the US to.

      What raising taxes does do is reduce capital investment, so you turn good, high paying jobs into shitty low paying jobs.

  14. As usual reason takes an article on Biden and the Democrat’s ludicrous proposals to tax and spend and somehow it’s still Trumps fault. You would have to be a full retard to vote for Biden. Yet you’ve been pimping him all summer. Whatever, don’t expect reason or logic from libertarians.

    1. You would have to be a full retard to vote for Biden.

      FTFY.

  15. What’s a few trillion among friends?

  16. I’m not sure why anyone actually cares about Biden. He might be running for President, but the odd’s he stays President for very long after the election don’t seem great. Assuming he even wins, polls be damned.

    Time would perhaps be better spent figuring out how his VP would run the country. We all know that Presidents age remarkably fast, but Biden looks like he’s already been President for 100 years.

    He would look like Palpatine after a year in office, and I’m not 100% sure he would even last that long.

    This is to say that Biden will probably be either mentally unfit or dead within a year. That said, some voodoo is keeping RGB alive so maybe they’ll just let her pass and make Biden immortal for a time instead.

    1. He would look like Palpatine after a year in office

      I could see Palpy slipping 2 fingers into Padme. And sniffing Jar-Jar’s ears.

  17. Biden keeps taking about raising my taxes, making me pay my “fair share.” He’s so disrespectful.

    1. No, he’s not talking about a “fair share” of government – He’s talking about communistic redistribution… As-if all the other “plans” he has wasn’t a dead give-away.

  18. good for everyone involved Biden isn’t going to win then.

    1. I’d like to think that, but don’t be too sure.

      I think there is something to the suggestion that Biden won’t even finish out his first term if he’s elected–and isn’t planning to do so.

      President Biden will be 78 years old if he’s inaugurated. That’s older than Ronald Reagan was when he left office. It’s one thing to campaign from your bunker during a pandemic, but in 2024, he won’t be crisscrossing the country on the campaign trail at the age of 82. He’ll resign before then and let President Harris take over.

      The immediate question isn’t just where President Harris stands on all that spending. It’s also whether we want to elect a President like Biden that may have no intention of running for reelection–especially in terms of spending. My bet is that if Biden is reelected, he’ll resign after the midterms.

      He intends to introduce $11 trillion in spending on the Green New Deal, etc. with the Democrats controlling Congress, knowing that the backlash this spending provokes will let the Republicans take control of the House again (at the very least). Once that happens, he won’t even bother anymore. He’ll just resign and leave it to Harris citing his health (every 80 year old has a health problem).

      He’ll introduce all that spending in the name of saving the planet from global warming and racism and then he’ll bail on us–with no intention of facing the voters again. That’s what we’re looking at with Biden.

      1. I’ve been saying he will resign after the 22 midterms. That way it won’t impact those midterms, and by serving less than 2 years of Biden’s term will allow Harris to run for 2 full terms of her own as an incumbent both times

        1. Maybe, but I think Biden honestly wants to be President. I think the only way that happens is against his will or if he goes straight up dementia-ville.

      2. >>That’s what we’re looking at with Biden.

        my side of that coin is “there are fewer people who believe that tripe than believe in T” … your assessments admittedly more intricate than mine at all times

  19. You had me at “$11 trillion in new spending”.

  20. The spending plans and tax hikes are bad, but isn’t the bigger story that Biden plans to be in power for 10 years?
    Isn’t the limit 8 years?
    Won’t he be like 114 years old by then?

  21. This is honestly the first presidential election where I feel there is a real and measurable difference between the two primary candidates.

    Even with Trump/Hillary I basically expected Trump to be a gun grabber and a new york liberal at heart. He has actually shown to be something quite different and now vs. Biden Harris, the actual difference between the two candidates is more more extreme than I’ve ever seen.

    Biden Harris is such a bad choice I find myself rooting for Trump. First time I’ve ever actually preferred a D or R over the other.

    1. This is the first one where I’ve bought into the “lesser of two evils”/”voting against someone” mindset. I’ve always voted for whoever I most agreed with, whether or not they’d win or lose wasn’t really a consideration.

      The left in this country has changed that over the last few months, and for the first time I’m probably voting for someone I don’t actually want to vote for because their opponent terrifies me. The Democrats losing handily is far more important to me than voting for the candidate that I most agree with, and that’s new to me.

      1. Stop watching so much Republican propaganda and you won’t be so scared of people who are basically moderate technocratic normals.
        That would be in comparison to a flaming clown fire shitshow who is killing Americans by the hundreds of thousands and trying to start a race war.

        I’d feel bad for people who are such sad victims of obvious propaganda, but I managed to avoid it, so you can too.

        1. That would be in comparison to a flaming clown fire shitshow who is killing Americans by the hundreds of thousands and trying to start a race war.

          But enough about the Democrats and their racism and incompetent handling of the pandemic.

          Republican areas are doing fine, of course, both in terms of race relations and in terms of the pandemic.

          1. Republican areas are nearly 100% white. I’m sure they think race relations are just fine in their communities.

            You’re lying about covid though.

            1. Your already admitted that I’m right about COVID: you mistook the list of the ten worst states in terms of COVID death rates for a hand picked list of Democratic states

              Democrats screwed up on COVID big time. Their particularly Draconian lockdowns and policies were a major public health mistake, in addition to being unconstitutional and economically devastating.

              1. Top five states in per capita cases:

                Louisiana
                Florida
                Mississippi
                Arizona
                Alabama

                1. Which one of these is 100% white?

                2. I said “ten worst states in terms of COVID death rates”. Those are:

                  New Jersey
                  New York
                  Massachusetts
                  Connecticut
                  Louisiana
                  Rhode Island
                  Mississippi
                  DC
                  Arizona
                  Michigan

                  (Note that a couple of them are actually Republican, but that didn’t stop you from accusing me of hand-picking Democratic states.)

                  I leave it to you to figure out why case rates are useless for comparing states.

                  1. As useless as trying to figure out which political party a virus prefers?

      2. my concern with this approach is that if the democrats lose handily, their major takeaway will be ‘we didn’t go prog/woke/commie hard enough”

        which really worries me because i think the next few years are going to suck no matter who wins, and if its trump then that opens the door for something far worse than biden/harris in 2024.

        1. College students talking about trans rights to each other is less of an imposition on you than plague and the destruction of the American experiment, surely. Close call, I know.

          1. College students talking about trans rights to each other is less of an imposition on you than plague and the destruction of the American experiment,

            I agree. Of course, the Democrats are responsible for all of the above.

            Republicans and Trump just want to return to some semblance of normalcy: judging people by their character not their skin color, well-defended borders, quarantine for sick people only, etc.

            1. Donald J. Trump: the candidate of normalcy.

              Troll. That’s what you are. You don’t believe the shit you type.

              1. Trump’s policies are mostly traditional moderate American policies. His demeanor is obviously not.

                Biden and Harris pretend to be traditional moderates, but their policies and platforms are extremist.

                1. In fairness, Trump has achieved very little policy through the normal process.

                  His personality becomes relevant when he does it by executive fiat, one could argue. Like throwing undesirables in cages with no legal recourse and letting states that didn’t vote for him suffer out of spite.

                  But I refuse to believe that letting hundreds of thousands of people die of disease out of stupidity and laziness is a moderate position.

                  1. Like throwing undesirables in cages with no legal recourse

                    Illegal migrants have no legal recourse; they have the option of requesting voluntary departure from the US. That’s the law. It’s Trump’s job to enforce the law.

                    and letting states that didn’t vote for him suffer out of spite.

                    It’s not out of spite, it’s out of responsibility to the rest of the country: states like NY and CA have acted highly irresponsibly, and it isn’t the job of other Americans to bail them out. They do need to suffer the consequences of the bad choices they made.

                    But I refuse to believe that letting hundreds of thousands of people die of disease out of stupidity and laziness is a moderate position.

                    Oh, you are giving Democratic cunning too little credit. They are letting hundreds of thousands of people die of disease not out of stupidity, but out of an extreme desire for power. That’s the only way the stupid, scientifically unjustified shutdowns in Democrat-run states can be explained. In fact, some Democrats have admitted as much.

                    1. Everyone in the US has due process rights.

                      Go ahead and defend harming the lives and livelihoods of citizens of states in political retribution and being too stupid to realize that NY and California have plenty of Republicans too. It kind of speaks for itself, like so much of this absurdity.

                      I get the feeling the president will suddenly become responsible for things when it’s Biden. Since you seem to think only Democrats are ever responsible for anything, why not just give them the power to act? Then your unfathomable partisan horseshit can be somewhat aligned with reality.

  22. Why are only White people taxes expected to pay for our assimilation out of existence with the 3rd world flooding into Every White country and Only White countries? Nobody demands that the Chinese must pay for their assimilation out of existence by breeding with millions of non-Chinese in their own country.
    Diversity is just a code word for White Genocide.

    1. That’s not genocide, it’s evolution. I agree that diversity of skin color for its own sake is a stupid goal and that self-loathing woke white people are annoying as hell. But try not to be ridiculously hyperbolic.

      Who gives a fuck what color people are? Culture is what matters. Don’t make it about race.

      1. “Who gives a fuck what color people are? ”

        Zeb, showing how out of touch he is.

        Really man, it happened fast but you need to look into this because your assumptions are dead wrong.

        Colorblindness is the new racism.

        1. I’m racist because of the color of my skin is ludicrously tragic. Fun times.

      2. Diversity is not a goal, it is a reality. Among all the shit the US imposes on the world, one unambiguously good thing we could do is demonstrate that a very racially and culturally diverse society can exist in peace and can prosper because of the very fact of its diversity.

        We just need a bunch of terrible unpleasant whiny racist morons to die off first.

        1. I agree wholeheartedly.

          You go first.

          1. Oh I already have a black friend.

            1. You wish.

        2. Widespread systemic violence has a way getting in the way of getting along.

          1. Agreed. Trump and cops should stop killing Americans.

            1. If you look closely, that’s not the only disrespect or violence going on, and it’s all violence. That’s what the government does.

              Using violence to shove one-size-fits-all solutions to complex social problems is not a good way to go about creating a peaceful culture. It just becomes a mechanism for multi-dimensional disrespect. But it seems to be all we know.

              And then we wonder why people don’t get along.

              In fact, solving complex social problems through violence is probably the most primitive way to go about things, going back to the first barbarian hordes. It’s hardly progressive, although it tries to pretend it is.

              1. That’s why I’m voting for the politicians condemning violence and not the ones encouraging it.

                1. When did you become a libertarian?

                  1. Always, but only relative to all the Republicunts posing as libertarians here.

        3. Among all the shit the US imposes on the world, one unambiguously good thing we could do is demonstrate that a very racially and culturally diverse society can exist in peace

          I agree. If only Democrats would let us. Unfortunately, they are deliberately dividing the nation along racial and cultural lines to advance their own power and political agenda.

      3. Who gives a fuck what color people are?

        Democrats.

        Culture is what matters.

        But to Democrats, your “race” determines your culture. In fact, if you favor traditional American culture and values, you’re not black according to Democrats, regardless of your skin color.

        1. What is “traditional American” a euphemism for?

          1. Traditional American = Hard work, rational arguments, personally responsibility, small government, individual liberties.

            1. And lusting after your daughter? How about that? Finger raping women because you’re a star? Traditional American, right?

              I think you’re just using nice words to describe terrible things like bigotry, shitting on the poor, and cult behavior.

              1. Wasn’t Biden also accused of finger raping a female surbordinate? Why yes he was. So you’re a hypocrite. Got it.

              2. And lusting after your daughter? How about that? Finger raping women because you’re a star? Traditional American, right?

                We’re electing a president, not a priest. As long as the president does his job, we’re fine.

                Of course, Biden is guilty of repeated sexual misconduct and possibly rape, in addition to massive corruption.

                I think you’re just using nice words to describe terrible things like bigotry, shitting on the poor, and cult behavior.

                You keep describing the Democratic party.

    2. Nobody demands that the Chinese must pay for their assimilation out of existence

      LOL! The Chinese government is subsidizing the breeding of millions of Uighar families out of existence as we speak.

      Oh, and from Indians to Celts, whiteness is a spectrum, dipshit.

  23. Part of the problem here is that no politician gets elected without promising something great. Would we elect a politician who says we are spending too much and so I will keep things going but nothing new. I will say that Biden is at least talking some taxes. Because another part of the problem is that we are undertaxed for the government services we receive. I would like to see some end to this idea of just borrowing for everything. I don’t think I will ever see it but it would be great to see a politician advocate for taxing appropriately for the goods and services received.

    1. Citizens! In all times, two political systems have been in existence, and each may be maintained by good reasons. According to one of them, Government ought to do much, but then it ought to take much. According to the other, this two-fold activity ought to be little felt. We have to choose between these two systems. But as regards the third system, which partakes of both the others, and which consists in exacting everything from Government, without giving it anything, it is chimerical, absurd, childish, contradictory, and dangerous. Those who parade it, for the sake of the pleasure of accusing all governments of weakness, and thus exposing them to your attacks, are only flattering and deceiving you, while they are deceiving themselves.
      -Bastiat

      Americans have chosen the third system.

    2. “Would we elect a politician who says we are spending too much and so I will keep things going but nothing new.”

      I would, no joke, be fanatically inspired by any serious candidate who campaigned on that.

      1. So how do we get that candidate nominated by a major party?

    3. Yes, we need to tax like your friends in Europe.

      1. We need to tax at a level appropriate to the services provided. Some European countries do that and they are better for doing so.

        1. Fuck off and die, slaver. Make the world a better place, make your family proud and, just for principles lefty shitbags like you can not possibly understand:
          FUCK OFF AND DIE.

        2. lmao… “We need to tax at a level appropriate to the services provided.” um…. Don’t they just call that free-trade?

          Oh, or maybe you meant a 3rd party nanny must take personal CHOICE (i.e. freedom) out of that equation. I guess all adults are just babies of the state/s.

  24. “Joe Biden is calling for a combination of spending increases and tax hikes that will require trillions of dollars of additional borrowing in the next 10 years”

    As if votes were free

  25. “mostly on the rich” BULLSHIT
    The financial transaction tax is a tax on every hard working American’s life savings, blue collar/white collar- doesn’t matter. The Dems are finally coming after life savings, at the state and federal level. (See NewJersey FTT today). Here we go:
    https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2020/08/21/a_financial_transactions_tax_would_be_a_huge_blow_to_little_guy_574870.html

    Govt comes after your income with income taxes, your home with property taxes. Now your life savings.

    1. Why are you are yapping on and on about discretionary savings? It’s not life savings unless the government forced you to save it.

      And it doesn’t actually belong to you.

      And they already spent it.

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  27. Democrats deciding how much to spend and how much to tax is like going out to eat with friends, telling the waiter it will all be on one check… the guy next to you’s, then when it comes you reach into the guy’s wallet, leave a 50% tip on the table and the lot of you dash without paying the bill.

    1. Republicans have been the bigger spenders and the creators of the bigger deficits the entire time you have been alive.

      How the fuck can it be that you still take them at their word for things like this when the numbers are right there for anyone to see?

      1. How the fuck can it be that you still take them at their word for things like this when the numbers are right there for anyone to see?

        It’s honestly funny Tony is trying to claim Reps are bigger spenders when the spending plans are in front of us with the Dem increase is ~ 4 times greater. Not 4% mind you, 4 times or 400%.

        1. Why do I have to explain to libertarians not to take politicians at their word? I’m sure Republicans have never promised to spend all the trillions of dollars they spend on useless crap, but they do it anyway.

          1. Libertarians know the one promise politicians keep is spending money. Promises to cut spending are wastes of air.

            Intelligent people understand not all promises are the same. Don’t worry Tony, we’ll explain it to you again the next time it comes up.

      2. Nice assumptions you got there but my post said nothing about Republicans and no, I don’t take their word for anything. You are correct. Republicans ARE bigger spenders. Democrats shoot for the moon on spending. They usually miss but still land among the stars. Republicans on the other hand are like Catholic priests in a youth choir.

        This article was about Democrats so that’s why I was bitching about them in particular but you’ll see me in the same topics complaining about Republican spending bitching about them too, but you never remark on those posts. I don’t know where you get this insane idea that Libertarians are shills for the Republican party. Why do that when they could just be Republicans and have a better shot at winning elections? Does it never occur to you that perhaps the reason Ls have their own party is because they cannot stomach either the Democrats or the Republicans?

  28. The bottom line is that if Democrats want to spend at the same levels they do in Europe, then we need to tax the way they do in Europe. The problem is, this would require massive tax increases on the upper middle to lower income quintiles (the lower quintile via consumption taxes), which is politically untenable. It’s that simple. Spend like Europe >>> tax like Europe.

  29. I give up.

    We got riots in the streets. The west is on fire. We got another hurricane on the way. We have this virus thing to worry about and all that entails. The country is more divided and bitter than I have ever seen, The economy is on the edge of a cliff. We have enemies like China, NK with nukes, Iran threats, Russia. Tariffs, deficit, taxes and dont fuck with social security I’m looking forward to that.

    How much more shit can we pile on. Even sports is political now.

    And one of these clowns is going to be president and I can’t stand either one of them. Screw them both. I’m voting for Jo. At least then I could sleep at night.

    1. How much more shit can we pile on? Not to be a debbie downer, but hyperinflation on the scale of Venezuela would nail that coffin. But yeah, lets keep spending.

      1. While I agree with you, every president, every Congress, has outspent their predecessor. Which party is in power makes no difference. It make no difference who wins, except just how long it can be kicked down the road before the financial collapse comes. Many economist predict the sooner the collapse comes the better it will be for the US, the longer it takes coming, the worse it will be for the US. The one good thing if the US defaults, they will not be able to borrow money for a time. The revenue will be what they can extract in taxes. Not that that will last forever. Russia went through it when the Soviet Unions fell, but is already over 11 trillion in debt .

  30. Hey, Biden did something no other presidential candidate in the past 175 years managed to do: win the long-sought endorsement of Scientific American, that impartial journal of truth:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientific-american-endorses-joe-biden/

    “The evidence and the science show that Donald Trump has badly damaged the U.S. and its people—because he rejects evidence and science. The most devastating example is his dishonest and inept response to the COVID-19 pandemic, which cost more than 190,000 Americans their lives by the middle of September. He has also attacked environmental protections, medical care, and the researchers and public science agencies that help this country prepare for its greatest challenges. That is why we urge you to vote for Joe Biden, who is offering fact-based plans to protect our health, our economy and the environment. These and other proposals he has put forth can set the country back on course for a safer, more prosperous and more equitable future.”

    Yeah, higher taxes and spending will make us more prosperous, and the Green Raw Deal is “fact-based”.

    1. You’re not gonna even spend a single second considering the question of why one of the most respected science publications in the world took this action. They must be part of the lizard people, I suppose.

      1. Scientific American is a popular science magazine, it’s not a “science publication”.

        1. You think Trump can get through a single paragraph?

          1. I doubt it. Trump is not particularly well read or very interested in science. How is that relevant to the presidency?

            1. He is not willing to read even a single-page national security report. Is that relevant to the presidency?

            2. Which would be fine if he knew that he doesn’t know. It seems that “nobody knows more than me” on any given subject.

    2. Donald Trump literally killed 190k Americans.

      Why can’t we just all get along?

      1. You are literally scientifically illiterate if you reached that conclusion.

      2. No he did not. You know who “literally” killed US citizens?
        New York Governor Andrew Cuomo did. #1 in deaths 33038
        New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy did. #2 in deaths 16043
        You know why?
        The DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS both forced corona virus patients into nursing homes against all medical experts advice.
        And you know that and choose to ignore it.

  31. If elected Biden may be able to make the US into the nation that Obama though that it should be. A third world nation. With government spending equaling one fourth of GDP and adding trillions to the national debt Biden and the democrats (progressives) would to lower the nation defisit in the budget would cut the military to the bone and deeper. With that kind of damage to the US defense the US would have to retreat on every front in international affairs. Suddenly our Allies would become our ex-allies and the retreat of the US would become a rout and the US would no longer be respected or feared as some say that it is with Trump as president. Then China would have no opposition to prevent they becoming the top dog in the world and China would suddenly have a lot of hang on friends hoping to get a piece of the US. And the US would not be able to stop even the weakest of them.

    1. Trump added trillions to the deficit, you moron. Obama cut the deficit from $1.2 trillion to less than half a trillion.

      1. “…Obama cut the deficit from $1.2 trillion to less than half a trillion…”
        You.
        Are.
        Full.
        Of.
        Shit.
        And a kiddy-diddler lefty piece of shit besides.
        You bullshit claims with cherry-picked cites make it clear that you are full of shit.

      2. lol… correction needed, “Obama made the deficit $1.2 trillion” compulsively for 4-years until Republicans had FULL congressional control at which point (to the T) the deficit got cut in 1/2.

        If you want to trash Trump and the Republicans the LEAST you could do is not lie out your *ass and instead state how sickening it is they allowed the Cares Act to pass having a majority in the Senate. Which even then is 87% flawed as the Democrats wrote and pushed 87% of that Act also.

        1. Just spend more it’s not like the debt will ever be paid off as is now. Run that shit up! Full spend ahead Captain!! Fastest way to create stimulus is to print it. Throw in unfunded liabilities and the debt party really gets hopping.

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  36. are you all right?

  37. Lefties are so contrary.
    “Budget is horrible under Republicans.”
    lets….
    Spend more on a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t,u,v,w,x,y,z…….
    Then the budget won’t be horrible?

    1. If you are going to have a horrible budget anyway might as well give everyone a free pony.

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  39. “… mostly on the rich …” Uh-huh, sure.

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