Election 2020

Joe Biden Is No Moderate

Biden is a classic big-government liberal.

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Super Tuesday, which vaulted former Vice President Joe Biden ahead of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.), looks like a victory for the Democratic Party's moderate forces. 

In the days leading up to the vote, the party's less progressive voters and candidates consolidated around Biden. Both Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D–Minn.) and former South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, who had cast themselves as moderate alternatives to Sanders, ended their campaigns and endorsed Biden. Biden surged in national polling, and Democratic voters largely ignored former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who spent hundreds of millions of his personal dollars attempting to portray himself as the candidate of moderate consensus. (So much for buying the presidency.)  

In the end, however, Biden claimed that mantle. With Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) flailing and Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D–Hawaii) barely registering, the Democratic primary is now a de facto two-man race, with Sanders the favorite of the socialist-friendly left and Biden representing the party's moderate, centrist voters. Even President Donald Trump, who has loudly criticized Democrats for appearing to embrace Sanders-style socialism, seems to essentially accept this frame. 

But there is a problem with this view: Biden is a moderate compared to Sanders, but he is notably to the left of previous Democratic standard-bearers. To describe Biden as a moderate without this context is to ignore the specifics of his agenda and the leftward shift in Democratic Party politics it represents. 

Consider Biden's health care plan. Although he has criticized Medicare for All, the fully government-run system favored by Sanders, Biden has proposed a significant expansion of the Affordable Care Act that his campaign estimates would cost $750 billion over a decade, nearly as much as the original bill signed by President Barack Obama. Although it would not nationalize the financing of health insurance, as the Sanders plan would, Biden's proposal would nevertheless set up a new, government-run insurance plan, expand eligibility for insurance subsidies well into the middle class, and make benefits available to people who can access coverage through their employer. If enacted, it would represent a major increase in government spending on health care and a substantial increase in the government's involvement in the health care system. 

Beyond health care, Biden has proposed a $1.7 trillion climate plan that is similar in scope to many candidates on his left and a $750 billion education plan that would be used, among other things, to increase teacher salaries and provide expanded access to pre-kindergarten. He favors an assault weapons ban and other gun control measures, a national $15 minimum wage, and a raft of subsidies, loans, and other government-granted nudges designed to promote rural economies. Has proposed $3.4 trillion worth of tax hikes—more than double what former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton proposed when she ran in 2016. 

To some extent, this just makes Joe Biden a Democrat in 2020, a successor to President Obama whose approach to policy could be summed up as, "Obama, but more." 

That alone puts him to the left of previous presidential nominees. As a recent article in Vox put it, over the course of his campaign, Biden has "outlined a suite of policies that, taken on their own terms, would be the most ambitious governing agenda of any modern Democrat." If he won, he would "be the most progressive Democratic nominee in history."

Biden, in other words, would be the leftmost presidential nominee in memory even while representing the party's center. And that tells us something important—not just about Biden, but about the Democratic party. 

Biden, arguably more than any other contemporary American politician, has long embodied the Democratic establishment consensus, from its tough-on-crime days in the 1990s to its wrong-about-Iraq days in the early 2000s to its technocratic economic policy gambles under Obama, when Biden played pivotal roles in the stimulus, the auto bailout, and high-stakes congressional budget deals. Biden is an avatar of the party's self-conception, the closest thing capitol-D Democrats have to a mascot. 

Biden's leftward drift is thus the party's leftward shift. He isn't a Sanders-style socialist, but he is, as I wrote last year, a big-government liberal, a candidate whose current incarnation was shaped and informed by progressive politics, if not wholly captured by them. That he looks moderate relative to Sanders is just another sign of how the party center has moved. If, as now seems plausible, he bests Sanders in the primary, the party's current moderates will have won—but true moderation will have lost.  

NEXT: Bloomberg Drops Out, Demonstrating the Limits of Money and the Perils of Arrogance

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  1. In fairness to Biden, there is genuine doubt that he has any idea what he is or even where he is right now. Given Biden’s diminished mental capacity, I don’t think it is fair to hold him responsible for any set of views. Joe is just out there doing whatever it is Joe does.

    1. Clinton puppet.

      1. That is a good guess. It would also explain why Obama hasn’t endorsed him.

        1. Chocolate Jesus hasn’t endorsed because he hasn’t had to. Just pulling the strings have been sufficient for The Imperator, at least until now.

          1. Nachtwaechter Staater, You are a BIGOT.

            1. Omg this fucking nitwit has found Reason? Sweet Meteor of Death, I beseech thee- end it all now!
              Seriously, this guy is 100% a leftwing troll- he makes the Rev look informed and Hihn look stable.

              1. Where have you seen him before?

                1. Federalist, I think. Someplace that uses Discuss. The trolls we have here are least somewhat able to put forth an argument; this guy is 100% about stupid, insults, and getting a reaction.

                  1. He’s a flame, and not in the good way…

                    1. Wow my phone keeps changing flame to flame
                      FLAMER there we go

          2. That would really be tricky as Obama is a puppet himself.

            1. It’s puppets all the way down.

              1. What happened to the turtles? Thank God Pratchett isn’t still alive to hear the poor turtles have been replaced by puppets.

                1. Not to diss Prachet, but that goes a lot further back than.

            2. I thought Obama was actually a muppet.

            3. Yep, Soros puppet. Biden had no core beliefs anyway other than liberal. He will bend to whatever is convenient for the puppet masters.

      2. I am picturing some sort of actual puppetry, and I am sorry, I just can’t see how Hillary would pull off something like that.

        1. Animatronics.

        2. I get the feeling it involves those latex gloves your doctor has.

          1. Maybe the birthing gloves we use when we pull a calf. They go all the way up to your shoulder.

        3. well obviously the puppeteer is an idiot have you seen how Joe does in public recently?

          1. Jeff Dunham apologizes and says he will try harder.

          2. True. Joe is no Howard Handupme. The puppeteers on Dinosaurs knew what they were doing.

        4. Hillary, Biden, Comey, and the rest of Obama’s administration involved in spying on Trump, leaking the existence of the investigation into the “there’s nothing there” Trump/Russian collusion narrative Hillary created, are all in it together.

          If Biden wins, then they won’t be investigated or prosecuted for their violations of the law. You might call it puppetry, but I call it conspiracy, where the conspirators are working hard to ensure they aren’t prosecuted.

    2. “Biden’s diminished mental capacity”

      It’d be really crazy if late-stage senility forces Biden out, and then the Dems are left with Warren as the “moderate” candidate.

      You know, it’s actually pretty smart for Gabbard to stay in the race. With the risks of terminal dementia, Corona virus lethality among the elderly, and complications from broken hip procedures, Tulsi has a pretty decent chance of being the only one left standing in July.

      1. It is not out of the question that Biden becomes so obviously senile over the next few months that even the media and Democrats can’t pretend that that parrot is still alive. It is also possible one or two of them go tits up from the Corona virus. What would happen then I have no idea.

        1. Senile Biden will spruce up the ticket with Stacey Abrams as Vice President. Unlike Trump, Biden will likely be removed from office (or, step down graciously) on grounds of actual mental incapacity and then the nation will be led by a gap toothed retard who still thinks she’s in the running to be the governor of Georgia.

          1. Now that is a truly nightmare scenario, and not all that improbable.

            1. I think the part where Trump is beaten by a guy who’s campaigning while senile is moderately improbable.

              Basically any Democrat starts 90% of the way to winning, given the Democratic party’s overwhelming control of the media high ground. That much is true.

              But Biden won’t be able to escape debating Trump, and if he genuinely IS senile, (Rather than, say, having TIA’s that come and go.) there’s no way that won’t be horribly apparent in an unscripted event like a debate. And my impression is that Biden is declining fairly fast.

              The media can cover for a stupid or radical candidate, but I don’t think they can successfully cover for a mentally incompetent candidate.

              1. The media successfully covered up for one President who was dying and too ill to function at all for over a year, another who couldn’t stand up unassisted throughout his 3+ terms, and at least one unbridled horn-dog – all of them Democrats (Wilson, FDR, and JFK). They only failed to cover up Bill Clinton’s sexual adventures because a special prosecutor didn’t give up his job after coming up with nothing for the alleged crime he was appointed to investigate.

          2. I don’t see Biden being removed for his mental incapacity. Instead, I see the deep state big government liberals around him propping him up, keeping him out of the public, only permitting him to read the teleprompter rather than ad-libbing, and basically telling him what to do. They want him in, so they get their way. Joe is no leader, and never has been. He sounds a lot like Bernie IMHO.

            1. So Basically Reagan’s second term. Only with Deep State big government conservatives propping him up?

              1. Similar to the 2nd term of Woodrow Wilson where he was so out of it, his wife was the acting President. The VP chosen by the DNC will be an indicator of how things will pan out if Biden is elected. As in 2016, I don’t care for either candidate in 2020. The thought of having even more government intervention in my life is really depressing.

        2. Ah, I forgot about Sanders’ ticker also. Throw cardiac time-bombs into the mix.

          Good lord, no wonder they all can’t stop talking about Medicare.

          1. If I were at half as much risk as those folks are, the last place I’d want to be is a government hospital.

            1. If you were half as much risk at those folks are, you’d be in front of an Obamacare Death Panel.

              1. Who are we kidding, these folks aren’t going to the government hospital. Those are only good enough for everyone else.

                1. Yup, the American nomenklatura (and worthy apparatchiks) will have different facilities because of their vital roles in the state.

            2. It depends on the government hospital. There’s one that Presidents and their families often use. What are the chances that a sick veteran with no political pull will be admitted to that one before he dies?

      2. I think the real danger is who Biden picks as the veep, as that person will probably end up running the show.

        1. Yes. And likely end up President. I don’t think Biden is mentally up to being President for four years. The stress of the job will kill him.

          1. I can’t imagine it’s that stressful finger painting all day.

          2. If he picks Clinton as his running mate it won’t be the stress that kills him.

            1. ^winner^

            2. Seriously, is there anybody in the Democratic party that’s suicidal enough to pick Hillary as their VP, unless their plan is to resign shortly after being inaugurated, and they make that clear to her?

            3. You wish. I can’t believe there are so many who really think Clinton has a chance for any thing. She is a LOSER with a big L. No one wants her.

          3. I think the Democrats’ goal may be to get him elected as a figurehead, long enough to take the oath of office, and then very quickly move for a 25th-amendment removal for an inability to discharge the duties of the office.

            Whenever Biden chooses his running-mate, it’s going to be very telling. We’ll either see his running-mate be someone to try to broaden his appeal in battleground states (particularly the midwest), or else it’s going to be a staunch establishment Democrat like Hillary.

            1. Stacey Abrams.

              I’ll put money on it.

              1. But why? If she’s going to carry appeal, it’s likely in southern states where Biden is already the most popular Democrat but he still won’t win in the general election. Maybe she picks up some identity politics votes, but that was insufficient to carry Corey Booker, Kamala Harris, or Tulsi Gabbard anywhere in the primary.

                Beyond that, her resume is laughable. The highest office she’s held is a state representative elected from a STAUNCH blue district. She was the minority leader in the state house, I suppose, so that’s something.

              2. I would just LOVE to hear the Proggie Identitarians howl about the Pence/Abrams VP Debate …

            2. If you read between the lines, he already has made his choice and to hell with everyone who gets their panties in a bunch about it. He’s going to pick little Bedo in a Speedo, to win Texas (which might be decisive), and with full knowledge that O’Rourke will shortly be the Prez. You shall know the truth, and you shall be pissed.

              1. Didn’t he say something about “if it were six years from now, I’d be endorsing him” (again showing his slipping mental health- I mean 6 years? There’s no presidential election in 6 years)?

              2. I think he will pick Michelle Obama.

                1. Lol.
                  If Michelle wanted in at this point, Biden will simply step aside after he’s won the nomination so the queen can be chosen to run against Trump in his place

              3. Bedo? is he not the fella who runs around calling everyone racist?
                by everyone I mean white.

        2. Biden/NOTA 2020

          1. I hear John McAfee is looking for a VP spot.

            1. Hair Sniffing and Whale Fucking!

              1. Finally something both Democrats and Libertarians can get behind, huh, huh.

            2. Mcafee is my first choice for a candidate.

              Wonder where he is these days.

              Somebody spotted him gambling in Havana but he may be hiding in Honduras.

              1. Today’s article about McAfee: “Farewell, John McAfee — America’s light is a bit dimmer today”

                https://t.co/ODTZUj722E

                (He didn’t die, just dropped his candidacy)

                1. Thanks.

                  Good article.

            3. Well, Abrams would qualify for the whale fetish requirement …

        3. He picks Clinton as a running mate and then bows out a week later due to medical issues. This was always the plan, they just didn’t expect Sanders to come out swinging as hard as he has. Hell, you see how desperate they are to keep Tulsi off of the debate stage with him at this point. She’d rip him a new one.

        4. He has already named Beto his Czar in charge of trashing the 2nd Amendment

    3. So Warren eventually bows out with a handful of delegates and says she’ll support whoever is the nominee. Gabbard does the same. Then Joe slowly pulls away from Bernie. Convention time comes around and Joe is nominated while a bunch of man-children throw tantrums in the streets. Bernie folds and promises to support Biden just like he did with Clinton and he gets nothing for it, just like he did with Clinton. Biden picks… who as his running mate? Probably a relatively young Southerner. That’s the Dem ideal.

      If Biden bows out before the convention for any reason, they probably won’t be able to hold off Bernie. The Dem establishment writes this election off and watches Bernie get his ass kicked. This may actually be the best option for the establishment because Biden can’t win in November either. But if the nomination goes to Biden, then a bunch of socialists are going to jump ship. Whereas, if Bernie gets a shot at Trump, they’ll probably quiet down and fall back in line, at least for a few election cycles.

      1. If Biden gets the nomination and loses, the socialists will blame the establishment and be even more strident in their demands for a “real nutbag” to be nominated in 2024.

        Even if Bernie were to get the nomination, the socialists will blame his loss on the establishment and be even more strident their demands for a “real nutbag” to be nominated in 2024.

        The Bernie bros are not going anywhere. And they like all dipshit leftists will forget nothing and learn nothing from their experience.

        1. Bernie is a commie, and if there’s one thing commies are aware of by now, it’s that you don’t strike at the guy at the top unless you expect to take him out. Because commies are not big into giving second chances, and so don’t expect them.

          That’s why Bernie never went for Hillary’s throat: His plan was always to be a non-threatening second place, and get the nomination if she managed to self destruct. He’s been a bit more aggressive this time around because he’s old enough to know he doesn’t have another shot at this, but if he loses the nomination, he IS going to fall in line.

        2. “The Bernie bros are not going anywhere. And they like all dipshit leftists will forget nothing and learn nothing from their experience.”

          They’re also the truest to D ideology.
          The party made this bed for themselves.

      2. “Biden picks… who as his running mate? Probably a relatively young Southerner. That’s the Dem ideal.”
        Biden did well in the south. What he needs as his VP is someone who will appeal to the coastal socialist hoards.. preferably from a preferred demographic.

    4. Naw!!!! Quid Pro Joe is getting ready to make tens of millions or more for his family as prez like he did for them as a US Senator & like he did for them in China, Romania & the Ukraine when he was VP!!! The man should be hung by old white balls!

      Biden is right up there with the Klintons in Fed Beast corrupt & lawless greed!

    5. John, Biden’s mental state is grim but shouldn’t we compare it to the alternative? I listened to Sanders being interviewed. In over an hour he was never incoherent, never had an incomplete thought and could answer every question thrown at him without hesitation. I have also watched Trump’s recent rant about windmills. That dude has a mental mess. He is the exact opposite of Sanders. He is either demented or doped up. Maybe both.

      1. Yeah, but you left out that Trump is actual Hitler and is guilty of treason, and Russia Russia Russia and Stormy Stormy Stormy, and oh! the Ukraine, too. Whatever gets you thru the fucking night, slick.

      2. Sanders who can’t even answer a question about how much all his plans will cost and how he is going to pay for it all coherent?

        1. Oh, Bernie knows how much it’ll cost. That’s exactly what he never says so.

      3. “In over an hour he was never incoherent”

        Constantly making shit up on the spot, and generally lying his ass off, but never incoherent.

        You know who else was a great public speaker and never incoherent?

    6. “In fairness to Biden, there is genuine doubt that he has any idea what he is or even where he is right now. Given Biden’s diminished mental capacity, “

      I am actually OK with that about him. Kinda like Reagan in the later years. I picture him puttering around the office, smiling for the cameras, kissing babes – er – babies I mean.

      It is the ones who think they know something you gotta watch out for.

      I’m still going libertarian so just watching the show really.

      1. Cool story bro.

      2. Reagan had a vision and appointed people who helped foster that vision. What is Biden’s vision and who is he likely to appoint? No, it may be Reagan but I fear it is more likely to be Wilson, after his stroke.

      3. Reagan still had his wits when he was first elected, so there was no power behind the throne. Bush the First wasn’t the Grey Eminence type, but you can bet whoever Biden’s veep is, will be.

    7. If you can’t get a libertarian leaning president, a bumbling centrist fool is the next best bet.

      1. So Trump?

        1. Well, if Vermin Supreme isn’t your first choice you’re obv not a real libertarian, so yeah, Trump.

    8. Biden did great on Super-Thursday! And the 150 million people who died magically came back to life… and voted!

      (Well, I suppose millions of voters appearing out of nowhere is no surprise in the Democratic party, it’s expected.)

      1. Your tin hat is on crooked.

    9. It has nothing to do with his diminished mental capacity, Biden haa based his entire career on telling people what they want to hear. His diminished mental capacity probably is helpful because he won’t be embarrassed recalling his previous positions.

    10. Biden will now run for the center. Such as the state of the Democratic Party that anybody but Trump could run & get their votes.

    11. Well, Joe Biden’s gun ban plan is to appoint Beto O’Rourke as the gun ban czar. You remember Beto:

      Democratic Presidential Candidate Beto O’Rourke: ‘Hell yes, we are going to take your AR-15’ – YouTube

      Quote:
      At the Presidental Debate, Beto O’Rourke promised to confiscate guns, to wild applause from the Democratic audience. And NOT A SINGLE ONE of the other Presidential candidates challenged or questioned him.

  2. So, Trump is the logical choice in November, no?

    1. Orange Man Bad. Liberty cannot survive mean tweets.

      1. Yeah, dawg, no, mean tweets are not brought up around here much as a reason why Trump is trouncing liberties.

        1. Everything is so terrible and unfair.

        2. If the dems manage to muster the energy necessary to oust Trump, that means they will almost certainly gain control of the House and Senate as well, possibly to veto-proof majority levels. In what universe do you live in that this would result in an increase in individual liberty?

          1. Eunuch just wants the “cool” kids to like him

  3. Vox?

    1. In Colorado news, dreams of free cash on day one of an employment offer. This is real. Could the Colorado woke braintrust make Seattle and San Francisco (or California) look like sensible fiscal republicans?
      https://gazette.com/premium/editorial-credit-polis-for-moderation-in-anything-goes-family-leave/article_258b8c1c-581c-11ea-a519-a3634668835d.html

      1. Firewalled, bra. I can guess though. I used to deliver the Gazette in my youth, as well as the now defunct, or possibly absorbed, Sun.
        I love this place, but between its asinine laws, californication, and obscene housing prices‐ Ima have to leave. But I have no idea where else I could go that makes me feel so at home. Sigh. Old Man Syndrome, maybe. Now, get the bleep off of my lawn.

        1. My Family (all Colorado Natives) were having a discussion the other night. The topic was who do native Coloradans hate more: Texans or Californians. The consensus was that it used to be Texans by a long shot. But with the Californian influx that seems to have changed.

  4. So how long does Biden last on the campaign trail if he selects Clinton as his VP? I’m actually completely stoked about the Trump/Biden debates. They are going to be totally lit. It hilarious that after 3 years of bleating about a stupid old white racist knuckle dragging insane ape ruining this country the lefts response is to put a old white racist knuckle dragging senile ape up against him. Guess they are counting on Alzheimer’s strength is a real thing.

    1. Do the Democrats even agree to debates if Biden is the nominee? They have to realize how badly that could turn out. I guess they have to agree to something, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is only one debate conducted under circumstances totally controlled by a friendly media to try and drag Joe through it without wetting himself.

      1. trumpski can barely speak the english language

        unless you think chanting lock him up is a debate tactic

        trump is a moron

        1. Yeah, he is a moron, that is why he won the GOP primary and beat Hillary. What is funny is that you are so stupid it never dawns on you that calling someone who owns your sorry ass a “moron” says even worse things about you.

          1. Those accomplishments don’t exclude him from being a moron. He is just better then Jeb, Rubio, Cruz and Hillary who are all morons themselves. I’d over the evidence that he is a moron for giving up sleeping with models and doing whatever the fuck he wants for perhaps the worst job in the world and subjecting himself to a daily assault from the media.

            1. That is actually the first reasonable case I have ever heard for Trump if not being stupid being nuts. That said, I suspect this wife finally put his nuts in a vice such that he had to give up the models and porn stars. So maybe he figured what the hell?

              1. If you’ve got the money, and sex it too much trouble, go for power, amIright?

              2. The general impression I have is she didn’t care about any of that. One more porn Star is one night she didn’t have to deal with him. I don’t think she likes this job at all and it shows. She just signed up for the stuff and to end up a rich ex or widow.

                I kinda like her. Smart lady and she pulls it off with some class.

                1. I think she knows Trump very well and is completely secure in her position.
                  And I think she likes her role.
                  Just because you’ve never had any ambition in your life doesn’t mean nobody else has

        2. In which debate did he chant that?

        3. That moron beat the brakes off your enlightened progressive idols, let that sink in for a minute, or another 4 years.

          1. losing the popular vote by 2 million+ would not be ‘beating the brakes off’

            the delusions are strong here

            1. Popular vote means fuckall, but of course you don’t realize that. I’m sure you’d change your tune if Trump wins the popular vote because you’re a mendacious little cunt with no principles.

            2. The delusion is thinking the popular vote has any value in our republic.

              1. Not only does it have no value, it is a fiction. There are fifty state votes (and votes in a handful of territories and districts). Adding them together is just a media thing and doesn’t represent what would happen if the candidates or the voters cared about the sum.

                1. Thankyou! I’ve been beating that drum for years. Just a for instance, but how many Republicans in coastal Cali or NYC don’t even bother to vote, since it is a predetermined outcome?

            3. Who is the POTUS at this time? It sure as shit ain’t Broom Hilda.

              And under whose administration have over 200 federal judicial vacancies been filled?

              Deregulation? We have less, not more. And with another Gorsuch, or two, you can kiss the Chevron deference and much of the administrative state good fucking bye.

              And you accuse others of being “delusional?” Such a sad and confused little troll you are.

          2. I mean Hillary is also a moron who didn’t play the game by the rules as understood at the start (the electoral college). Which if you’re trying to play the “team blue is smarter” game isn’t exactly a good look.

            1. It’s not that she didn’t play by the rules so much as she blame the rules for her loss while knowing they were the rules before she entered the race.

              1. When I said “play by the rules” I meant more “play the game to maximize success according to the rewards/rules of the game” then “not violate the rules”.

                She just refused to go out to the small battleground states, like she thought drumming up general popular support would do the job.

                1. Ah, yes.

                  Even her husband was trying to get her campaign to go to the small battleground states. But what the hell does a guy who won seven elections know.

              2. Nah it’s just that nobody likes her.

                Poor thing. She should be facebooking friends, making lunch dates and girls night out but they all seem to be busy.

                She needs a hobby. Bill is always out with the guys. That bottle of vodka seems to come out a little earlier each day. Maybe a dog. Dogs will give you unconditional love if you just take care of them. Not a lap dog, one of those breeds you have to take for walks and do some training like a husky.
                She could go to the dog park and chat with the other dog people.

                Maybe I should email her. Anybody know her server address?

                1. “Anybody know her server address?”

                  I’ll bet Putin does.

                2. Omg that’s funny.

              3. The way she campaigned hard in CA for 3 million popular votes that wouldn’t count while doing little in Michigan and other close-run midwest states, I wonder whether she _didn’t_ understand the rules. I’m sure she’s had people who tried to explain the electoral college to her from her high school teachers to half of her campaign staff, but if you’re an arrogant a%%, no one can make you learn.

        4. Let’s compare Trump to Biden or (even Obama) he has had a Real Job for nearly 50 years. One in where you make decisions. Yep, just look at the many industries he has worked in from Real Estate, to Golf Courses, to a TV Star (where by the way he thing was to evaluate people) Biden has never had an Executive Leadership Position in his life. Not in Business, not in the Military, and not even in Government since he has never been a Mayor or Governor. Your low level of education and understanding of the why the world works is appalling. AND do you think that Biden will be the President for all the people? Not the 60,000 Cola Miners at least who he told to GET A REAL JOB like Programing Computers. Ya, Biden is clueless.

          1. HAHAHAHHAHAHa

            ha

            trump inherited 45 million from daddy and ran around losing money
            his first ex wife convinced him to start selling his name, then he started making money

            he has never had a job in his entire life

            1. So he inherited $45,000,000 and turned it into $4,500,000,000… and you think he’s lost money?

            2. So who’s new sock is this?

            3. Given that the vast majority of new businesses fail, and the fact that even with his inheritance, Trump has beaten the failure odds (some of his ventures have failed, as have some of mine) and certainly made money far beyond a ‘safe return’ investment.
              I don’t like him; as a person he appears to be a colossal boor. But he didn’t raise my health care costs over 500%, either.

        5. “”unless you think chanting lock him up is a debate tactic””

          Lock him up is what the democrats chanted.

          1. Ah, I guess you are referring to Trump fans and Biden.

        6. arpiniant1
          March.4.2020 at 2:42 pm

          “…trump is a moron”

          Those who project are often not conscious of it. Especially fucking lefty idiots with raging cases of TDS.
          Tell us again what a successful businessman you are. Between all the Ds taking nose dives and your idiocy, it’s an amusing day.

          1. Except Trump actually is a moron.

            1. Uh, no he’s not, and anyone who makes this argument is the real moron.

              1. Trump’s mouth is obviously connected to something other than his brain. But with any politician, if you don’t ignore what they say and look at what the do, you’re the fool. Half of Trump’s actions are as bad as his talk, but he also has quietly pruned back many regulations and appointed Gorsuch. That makes him the first politician I’ve ever seen that did better than his rhetoric!

            2. And the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

    2. No way Biden picks Clinton as VP. Not a chance. It’ll be some young Southerner.

      1. I think they’ll pick a rust-belt, pro-union pol as a running mate. Team blue lost Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania by razor thin margins last election; that’s 46 electoral votes right there. Probably, that will be more of a priority for them than trying to flip southern states that are likely to stay red anyway.

        1. Team Blue is going to want Florida, though. Florida is such a weird state that it’s tough for me to figure what kind of candidate is going to appeal to them.

          1. A guy named Chad?

            1. Or a girl named Stacy [Abrams]?

            2. Bill O’Reilly wrote a book about him. It was called “Hanging Chad”.

          2. That’s the thing. A typical southerner doesn’t really do much to move the needle in Florida because there’s so many transplants (retirees, immigrants, etc.). They might go with a Hispanic candidate from a western state to try to flip Florida, Texas, and/or Arizona. That’s probably a less viable path to 270 though.

            1. Florida’s such a mishmash. You’ve got some traditional southern conservatism sprinkled through, particularly in the panhandle, but also with some of the OJ agriculture families. There’s a huge population of Cuban immigrants who tend to be more conservative, but don’t necessarily vote (many of them aren’t citizens).

              But there’s a lot of other Hispanics in the state as well, and they’re more traditionally liberal. There’s also the black residents, who overwhelming will vote Democrat, and the Northern transplants who live in affluent areas in South Florida.

      2. “It’ll be some young Southerner.“

        Probably she’ll look great in a skirt and heels. This is Uncle Joe we are talking here.

        1. I wonder if Burt Reynolds modeled David Dilbeck on ol’ Joe.

      3. Nope. Buttigieg. Try to get the woke crowd, the midwest, and the youth, all in swell foop.

        1. That’ll hurt with the Black and Hispanic vote though.

  5. Biden, last year, to a gathering of bankers, hedge fund managers, the truly rich, and other Wall Street types:

    ” No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change…I need you very badly. I hope if I win this nomination, I won’t let you down. I promise you.”

    I dunno, sounds like a moderate to me.

    1. Because he made a promise?

      Or perhaps he’d promise anything if he stood to get votes and/or money from it.

      1. It’s his willingness to put the interests of the wealthy above all others. That’s what makes him a moderate. He’d be no different than all the presidents before him.

        1. Biden isn’t a moderate. Biden doesn’t really stand for anything. He is an inveterate politician who will be whatever he has to be to gain election to public office.

          FFS, the guy has been an elected swamp denizen since 1973, and is now desperately trying to get the party nod to run for president at age 77. I think he would suck any dick, or lick any asshole he has to gain power. Ideology means little to him. Unlike Bernie and his communism.

          1. ” Ideology means little to him. Unlike Bernie and his communism.”

            Are you trying to tell me he’s a moderate? You’re knocking on an open door. I said as much in my first comment.

            1. Opportunist does not equal moderate.

              1. Biden is not an opportunist. He’s been a Wall Street stooge for his entire career. If you can’t tell the difference between Biden and Sanders, his backers certainly can.

                1. Name some policy differences between the two of them. From this election period.

            2. “”Are you trying to tell me he’s a moderate?””

              Why would you ask that when the first four words says “Biden isn’t a moderate”?

        2. And what would be the interest of “all others”? Making the wealthy less wealthy to feed the bloated government even more money to waste?

          That sounds like ugly resentment, not “moderate”.

          1. “And what would be the interest of “all others”?”

            Same as the wealthy. Money. It’ll buy you pretty much anything.

            “That sounds like ugly resentment, not “moderate”.

            To schlubs like yourself, sure. Billionaires are celebrating Biden’s victory.

    2. Biden, last week told a guy who was not a banker, hedge fund manager, truly rich, or a Wall Street type that he was going to raise his taxes.

      1. And you still think he’s not a moderate?

        1. Ok, that was pretty good.

  6. and trumpski is no conservative

    He is a moderate on a rational scale, comparing standard left and right and only looks liberal when comparing right wing nutbag politics

    1. Learn to cut and past complete sentences and stick to the talking points you are given.

      1. learn to have a point

        trumpski cannot put two words together and you act like a debate would make him look good

        1. Debates aren’t meant for looking good, they’re meant to convince people to vote for you. Something he was pretty effective at in 2016.

        2. I don’t like Trump’s style, but he did well in almost all the debates I saw (I did not have the energy to watch all 9000 republican debates) because the guy’s funny. He knows how to be a showman. He’s got good comedic timing, and he does a good job simplifying his points and hammering them home over and over.

          He doesn’t project a high-minded politician, but he’s very good at making his opposition look worse.

        3. “learn to have a point”

          You’re a fucking lefty ignoramus.
          How’s that?

          1. That’s what I’d call an unassailable point…

        4. Trump can’t put two words together, yet somehow managed to win roughly two thousand debates against a field of 16 Republican candidates, and another several against Herself, and won the Presidency.
          He throws rallies where 10s of thousands of people hang on his every word (just like Hitler!), and gave a State of the Union speech before his impeachment acquittal that was widely panned even by a hostile press.
          Yup. Joe “I’m running for Senate with my leg hair” Biden will definitely pawn him.
          Idiot.

          1. Trump won those debates? Proof? Polls showed most thought Hillary cleaned his clock in the debates.

            1. Sure they did. We believe you.

            2. The only poll that is 100% reliable is the one taken in November…

            3. Vince Smith
              March.4.2020 at 9:50 pm
              “Trump won those debates?”

              Yes.
              Next question.

            4. Hillary won the debates but people in swing states disliked her. They didn’t care about the debates.

    2. “”and trumpski is no conservative”‘

      Right. He’s a NY democrat who ran as a republican.

      Similarly, Bernie is no democrat. He is an independent trespassing as a democrat.

      1. Trump is a pragmatist and businessman. That largely covers it.

  7. Biden will be just a figurehead if he wins. He is OLD and has no energy. He will be just a TOOL for the Democrat Establishment. Biden has never had an Executive Leadership position in his whole life. Never ran a business, no Military Experience, and never was a Mayor or a Governor. He does not know how to lead. OH, and those Wars in the Middle East that Trump ios trying to pull us out of, they will go on. To much moeny and power for the Democrats to not take advantage of.

    1. Suderman is a classic establishment liberal which is how he recognizes Biden as a classic big-government liberal.

      1. Whoops, meant this for Alan’s post below.

  8. By Mr. Suderman’s standards, every president since Calvin Coolidge has been a big-spending liberal, Ronald Reagan above all. In the immortal words of Dick Cheney, “Reagan taught us that deficits don’t matter.” Reagan initiated the modern era of unlimited deficits, though no one seems to have noticed. Only Nixon could go to China, and only Ronnie could double the entire national debt in eight years and be praised as the ultimate foe of big government.

    1. Yeah because Reagan set the budget not the Congress.

      And there is more to big government than spending. God you are a moron Vanneman.

      1. And here I thought Reagan ended the Cold War by out-spending the Ruskies. Oh, that’s when he gets credit. But the deficit was the fault of Congress.

        1. That is because the deficit included a lot more than defense spending. Defense spending even at the height of the Reagan buildup was a lower percentage of GNP than it had been for most of the post war period. So, you really can’t blame the deficit on defense spending. It was the domestic spending that Congress demanded as a price for the defense spending.

          1. Absolutely. And squarely the fault of democrats, when Tip O’Neil reneged on a promise to cut spending in favor of tax increases.

        2. As is often the case in politics, who gets credit has little to do with who actually did something.

          However, in this case, there is no doubt. Spending originates in the house. Congress has the power of the purse. If your argument is that Reagan gets too much credit, there is space for that, and it rings somewhat true, but is also an overaimplification. If your argiment is that Reagan turbocharged spending, there is no basis for that. Congress controls spending.

          1. “oversimplification”

            Ugh edit button would be nice

          2. Did Congress override a presidential veto of a bloated budget?

            There are these things called checks and balances…

            Yeah, it’s an oversimplification, but dude it’s a comment section. Except for Ken most of us don’t write books here.

            1. When was the last time a veto of a bloated budget stayed until overridden?

              The move is to blame the president for the government shutdown until the president gives in.

              1. It was passed with a veto proof majority in the Senate. The House was more circumspect, but who knows if they would have overridden a veto. It’s all largely moot anyway, as none of those considerations make blaming the President when congress has essentially full control of the budget. That smacks of blaming one’s children for over extending your own credit.

                1. But the media and the Democrats would do exactly that. And too many people would believe them.

              2. The on,y people who give a fuck about government shutdowns are people who have already made up their mind who they support, and does not include the general public.

            2. I don’t live in counterfactuals.

            3. “Except for Ken most of us don’t write books here.”
              That’s funny. (Sorry, Ken, I find your posts insightful and educational, but they are a bit long).

              1. Or a Trabant.

                1. I’m not sure I get the reference. Is GG’s comment a comedic lemon, or are Ken’s polemics?

        3. Reagan was not the major factor.

          We had Levi’s, microwave ovens, stocked supermarkets, the Sony Walkman, Chevy Camero, Bon Jovi…

          As PJ O Roarke put it. “Nobody wanted to buy Bulgarian shoes.”

      2. Reagan was the one who called for all that defense spending that busted the budget.

        1. Damn, you’re an idiot.

        2. No, domestic spending and entitlements, even then busted the budget. Someone up thread pointed out that defense spending, as a percentage of GDP wasn’t unusually high. Higher then Carter but Carter starved the military.

          1. And Carter has a compliant Congress that gave him what he wanted mostly. Reagan had a hostile Congress that attempted to thwart him at every turn.

    2. I was going to post “in before Vanneman could make a bitter comment about Reagan” but I was too late.

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  11. At least Biden wouldn’t put “big government” in the last place we Koch / Reason libertarians want it — on the US / Mexico border. The Democratic Party has almost fully embraced Charles Koch’s immigration agenda and I guarantee President Biden will liberate the concentration camps created by the Drumpf regime.

    #LibertariansForBiden
    #DemocratsDontCageKids

    1. Democrats legally enslave the productive, using the votes of the unproductive, purchased with a cut of the booty.

  12. Biden now joins the propped up RBG in the new 8 month thriller based on ‘Weekend At Bernie’s’.

    1. “Weekend At Kavanaugh’s” – 90 minutes of blank film because it never actually happened.

      1. Would there be someone who claimed to see it with friends, but the friends have no recollection of seeing it?

  13. With the exception of eunuch, and a couple of typical leftists, A+ thread so far

    1. I’ll take all the credit. Me and my new ‘hands off’ style.

  14. No, Biden in no moderate, but next to Bernie, he sure looks like one!

    1. He even makes Obama look moderate.

    2. I’ve yet to see in this thread any substantial policy differences between Biden and Bernie.

  15. STOP covering the dems and GOP already!! This is SUPPOSED to be a Libertarian site/publication but you aren’t acknowledging any of the candidates in the Libertarian Party! Yes I know they have a weak field but can’t you at least give them some coverage?!?!?

    1. There is an article up today on the LP primary.

      1. Well that’s different for Reason

    2. None of the above is leading by over 20%. Do you really want to read about Boothead-head?

      1. Yes I would

        1. Join in

          So far I like him.

      2. Boothead-head

        It is pronounced Boot-edge-edge and he dropped out of the Democratic race.

        (Or Booty judge if you are trying to be funny)

        OTOH, you could call Vermin Supreme boot hat head, but I would rather not call him anything and just ignore him. (I like the above comment that we don’t have the resources for “McAfee in the background”)

    3. Sadly, the Libertarian Party doesn’t have any libertarian candidates. So it’s best not to cover them.

      1. Well they are certainly not swimming in supporters

  16. OT: More than a week has passed, and no mention of the DC Circuit court ruling in favor of Don McGann. Amazed this was not covered.

  17. Pretty sure if it’s Biden v Trump, I’ll be reading the libertarian case for Biden in Reason somewhere around mid October.

  18. Biden’s campaign advisers are probably coaching him 24/7 to watch what he says and be aware of his surrounding. Given that he continues to be a gaffe machine, we can conclude that he’s either senile or (not unlike Trump) just doing whatever he wants to despite what his inner circle says.

  19. Assuming it’s Biden/Trump, and assuming the economy doesn’t crater in the interim, it’s a pretty safe bet that Biden will run on the stirring position of “I’M NOT TRUMP!”
    A quick check of the last couple of years of my (federal) tax liabilities, my business’s sales, and my investments says that’s not gonna get me to pull the Biden lever. And it’s another safe bet that many others are in the same boat.

    1. But that means you just support a racist who hates brown people and is literally Hitler and trying to become a dictator. Because everyone knows the first things tyrants do is decrease the size of government and deregulate.

      1. But that means you just support a racist who hates brown people and is literally Hitler and trying to become a dictator.

        Frankly, I don’t care if people call me these names anymore. My parents barely survived the Nazis and I barely got away from socialism. When people misuse those terms, they just indict themselves.

        1. The term “actual Hitler” was repeated endlessly by both Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow, msnbc clowns that make Greg Gutfeld look like William F. Buckley.

  20. Bill Clinton and first-term Barack Obama would be Republicans now, or get crushed in the Dem primaries.

  21. Biden is a classic big-government liberal.

    Look, we can’t do anything about Democrats misusing the term “liberal” to describe themselves. There is nothing we can do about the fact that they have poisoned the term.

    But what we can do is describe Democrats accurately. There is noting even remotely “liberal” about Biden. Biden is a leftist, a statist, and an authoritarian (to the degree that the senile airhead has any ideology left in his skull at all).

    1. But what we can do is describe Democrats accurately. There is noting even remotely “liberal” about Biden. Biden is a Democrats. They are leftist, a statist, and an authoritarian

      I’ve been preaching this for years.

      1. Words have meaning, let’s not debase them!

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  23. Joe Biden: I sure do like all those clean black people down there in South America who like to feel the hair on my legs ’cause it gets soft when I swim with my sister and Hunter has pledged to stop smoking crack and quit getting into accidents because he has a good job advising oil companies in ….. Russia, I think.

  24. The premise of the article is flawed. Joe Biden is a moderate DEMOCRAT. If that cannot be conceded then there is no reason to write anything further.

    1. There’s nothing moderate about today’s Democrats. JFK (who cut taxes and promised to fight Communism anywhere in the world) would be right-wing according to their current idealogues.

      Now, it’s true that Biden is no idealogue. That takes more intelligence than he has demonstrated lately, and more honesty than he’s ever demonstrated. But his lack of principles doesn’t mean that he’ll oppose the idealogues if he becomes President – assuming he isn’t too senile to do the job, he’ll do whatever benefits Joe Biden politically, and throwing those who got him elected under the bus won’t do that.

  25. Classic narrative propaganda. Even before Sanders’ campaign is dead people are trying to spin Biden as a radical lefty. $750 Billion over ten years is not that much when you look at the deficits that Trump is piling up. That’s very centrist.
    We will see this narrative build because the last thing the media wants is Biden to run away with this election. They need to pit right vs left so that they can drive the reality tv narrative. If people realize Biden is just a shade to the left of Trump that would be boooooring. Can’t have that!

    1. You’re right: Biden isn’t a leftist because he has no ideology at all, he’s simply corrupt and senile.

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  27. A liberal president is what we need. A liberal president, a liberal Congress, and liberal courts and we’ll be a better America

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