Coronavirus

Coronavirus Is Going To Be Expensive. Too Bad the Government Is Already in Massive Debt.

Having failed to be fiscally responsible when it would have been relatively easier, our elected officials will now likely hike spending even further.

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While delivering an address Friday afternoon to declare a national emergency and outline plans for billions of dollars in emergency spending to combat the COVID-19 virus, President Donald Trump paused for a rare moment of reflection.

In addition to responding to the current coronavirus crisis, Trump said, the federal government would have to make changes to be better prepared for a similar event in the future. You hope that doesn't happen, he said, "but it will, I guess. Somewhere out there. [We've] had some bad ones over the years."

It's a shame he's three years too late in realizing that.

During Trump's first three years in office, he's signed off on spending plans that added at least $4.7 trillion to the national debt. The debt totals more than $23 trillion, a record high. When measured against the size of the economy, it is approaching the all-time record set during World War II. Annual budget deficits are expected to exceed $1 trillion for the rest of the decade, at least. The Government Accountability Office has called the nation's fiscal trajectory "unsustainable."

Trump said during the 2016 campaign that he'd be able to pay off the national debt in eight years. That was always a pretty laughable idea, but once in office, Trump was the one laughing off worries about overspending. "I won't be here" when the national debt becomes a crisis, Trump reportedly said during one Oval Office discussion about the issue.

But the "bad one" is here now. And Trump is still in office.

The bad ones aren't always pandemics. Sometimes they are wars or massive terrorist incidents. Sometimes they are the result of government-inflated housing bubbles popping. Sometimes they're just part of the business cycle. But they always come, and you can rarely predict them.

When they do happen, another thing you can count on is a governmental response that involves spending more money—to help people who lose jobs, to prop-up whole industries, or just to stimulate the stock market—at a time when tax revenues are almost certain to fall. Much of that spending will be counterproductive or, worse, wasteful cronyism. But it will happen regardless. This time, the Trump administration and House Democrats are currently negotiating a massive spending package (perhaps as much as $50 billion) that is likely to include paid sick leave for workers, expanded welfare programs, and a bailout for travel industries.

"The federal government will unleash every authority, resource, and tool at our disposal," Trump said Friday.

Trump's favored solution, a payroll tax cut that would extend through November, would reduce federal revenues by an estimated $840 billion.

The "bad ones," in other words, are a recipe for growing deficits. That was true during World War II and after 9/11. It was true during the Great Depression and the Great Recession. We can debate the merits of aggressive, expensive government response to crisis all day, but the more important lesson provided by all those previous historical examples is to be prepared for them. That means keeping deficits in check—or, goodness, could we dream of eliminating them entirely?

The past decade was a good opportunity to do that. Great, even. Since the last recession officially ended in the third quarter of 2009, the United States enjoyed 42 consecutive quarters of solid if unspectacular economic growth through the end of 2019. That's the longest run of uninterrupted growth since government economists began tracking the business cycle in the 1850s, far outpacing the average economic expansion of 18 months. Employment has increased by 12 percent, the jobless rate reached record lows, and America's gross domestic product (GDP) has increased by more than 25 percent.

It's too soon to say for sure, but that winning streak appears to be at an end. How did we handle that decade of good times? Mostly by pretending the "bad ones" would never come. Here's what I wrote in January:

Hanging over this decade of good news is the gloom of a missed opportunity. After piling up trillions of dollars in deficit spending during the last recession, the federal government took some modest steps towards reducing that red ink during the middle years of the 2010s. But after Republicans took full control in 2017, spending skyrocketed and the deficit inflated again….

Compare all this with early 2001, at the end of the second-longest economic expansion in history. The federal government was running a surplus. The national debt was falling and amounted to only 31 percent of GDP. That's what you'd expect to see now, since deficits typically fall when the economy is growing and grow when the economy is rotten.

Any huge spending or tax cut in response to the coronavirus will only accelerate the nation's ongoing budget crisis. If the deficit jumps, it may have knock-on effects that slow growth or hike interest rates on America's borrowing—thus making the debt an even heavier burden. Having failed to be fiscally responsible when it would have been relatively easier, our elected officials now face an impossible choice: oppose politically popular deficit spending in response to the coronavirus outbreak, or try to stimulate growth by backing policies that will harm the country's long term economic stability. They will almost certainly (with a few exceptions) choose the latter.

The final twist is that the stimulus spending may not help at all. As I've detailed before, the coronavirus outbreak is primarily a supply-side disruption to the economy—and that means demand-increasing stimulus policies likely won't work.

In short: We will end up spending money we don't have to solve a crisis that can't be fixed by spending more money.

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  1. We will end up spending money we don’t have to solve a crisis that can’t be fixed by spending more money.

    So you assume that successful crisis intervention is free?

    How old are you, Boehm? Twelve? Eleven? Do you actually understand how anything in the world works?

    1. This. Crisis intervention will cost a fraction of what, e.g., AFDC or SNAP costs per year, and there’s zero chance of those being lowered.

      1. Exactly. Not to mention that the number one reason government needs to do things during a crisis isn’t an economic reason, it’s a basic tenet of governance…because if they do nothing or are perceived as doing nothing, people panic. If they are perceived as not doing enough, people panic. And there is no situation so bad that panic by large numbers of people can’t make it worse.

        Trump’s response to coronavirus has been measured and methodical and he’s trying not to let it spiral into an orgy of long-term spending programs and panic like Katrina turned into for Bush. He’s consulting the experts, taking aggressive, relatively low-cost options, and erring on the side of safety. In short, he’s doing about the best you can ever expect from a government leader in a crisis…because nobody is ever going to respond flawlessly to a crisis of this scale, because crises of these scales are unpredictable and highly fluid.

        His job is to keep it from spiraling out of control and to minimize damage until it peters out, which is exactly what he’s doing.

        1. People are panicking. They’re making a run on toilet paper for fear of a RESPIRATORY virus. Which is just moronic. So now it creates a problem for the people legitimately low on it.

          Like I always say ‘people are stupid’.

          1. My wife picked up a 6-pack of Charmin today. What are the bids?

            1. I’m getting a set of the three seashells from ‘Demolition Man’. So I’ll be all set.

              1. Only one set? I’m buying one set per person per bathroom while I still can. I may get some extras just in case the Coronapocalypse lasts years.

              2. It is really interesting to see this information is out there

            2. It is interesting to see this kind of stuff

          2. Buy a cheap bidet system off amazon, a couple packs of those really cheap, thin towels, bleach and laundry detergent, a pair of scissors, and you’re set until the run on TP stops.

        2. Trump refused WHO testing kits. He also got rid of the pandemic response unit. His response has been terrible. Enough of your spin.

          1. You’re an idiot and you have no idea what you’re talking about. On your way, little man.

            1. Hoot Smawley — called out, AGAIN.

              Trump disbanded NSC pandemic unit that experts had praised.

              WASHINGTON (AP) — Public health and national security experts shake their heads when President Donald Trump says the coronavirus “came out of nowhere” and “blindsided the world.”

              They’ve been warning about the next pandemic for years and criticized the Trump administration’s decision in 2018 to dismantle a National Security Council directorate at the White House charged with preparing for when, not if, another pandemic would hit the nation.

              Trump’s elimination of the office suggested, along with his proposed budget cuts for the CDC, that he did not see the threat of pandemics in the same way that many experts in the field did.

              Of course! Trump is smarter than all of them!

              Trump has graduated from mere incompetence, now a severe threat to human health and life.

              (ignore all the screeching , to punish me for PROOF, which they HATE).

              1. The cool thing about the Wuhan Virus is that you will soon be dead. So Trump is getting that right.

                1. Much quicker if Trump just killed everyone himself, who proves him a lying sack of shit, over and over and over.

      2. This. Crisis intervention will cost a fraction of what, e.g., AFDC or SNAP costs per year, and there’s zero chance of those being lowered.

        ummm, they don’t kill people. (shudder)
        And THEY are what people have always paid for, voluntarily, for centuries, before government screwed them up. Unlike the far larger defense budget!

        Both of you slander the limited government movement, acting even worse than what progressives screech, with your authoritarian contempt for Consent of the Governed … and for human life itself. Please go comment on Breitbart, Limbaugh and Infowars.

        Thank Almighty God and the Blessed Jesus Christ that you two are NOT Christians, or you’d be defaming them too. Reject the Anti-Christ.

        1. Fuck you, Hihn…stay off my threads.

          1. . You do NOT own this page. And I am NOT your vassal.

            If you MUST act like a whiny pussy, STOP POSTING CRAZY BULLSHIT IN A DISCUSSION FORUM

            Your authoritarians right has been burning books, suppressing speech and censoring media for centuries. So, NOW the authoritarian LEFT is following their lead. Like competing street gangs.

            1. Listen old man, I don’t care about your gibberish and delusional outrage and random fonts that nobody but you thinks is clever. We all know you’re only here because your own family doesn’t care about you.

              You want us to be pleasant. Try having non-insane conversations with people. Otherwise, fuck you, stay off my comment threads.

              1. Wham Virus will soon kill him. This is good.

                1. DUMBASS POSTS BOTH HIS SOCKS … TWO MINUTES APART!

    2. So you assume that successful crisis intervention is free?

      (snort) He said the exact opposite

      How old are you,

      (laughing)

      He’s already the worst President EVER on new debt (CBO 2024 forecast) … after inheriting the longest expansion EVER, for an incoming President … Obama … who’s final three years were BETTER than Trump’s first three (OMFG)

      THIS is why so many INFORMED people have warned about the STUPIDITY of piling on so much debt … unpaid tax cuts AND large spending increases … IN A RECOVERY!

      His address to the nation was a MASSIVE FAILURE .. the overnight stock futures market collapsed … then the DOW crashed over 10%, the largest one-day drop since … 1987.

      So he calls a press conference to bail his sorry ass … and screws THAT up. As millions of Americans watched … he shouted down a reporter who asked about his own testing … shut off the mics so reporters couldn’t ask any questions … Trump ignored a question on why HE CLOSE A SPECIAL WHITE HOUSE PANDEMIC GROUP IN 2018!!

      A PRESS CONFERENCE WITH A MUZZLED PRESS! But he’s NOT a fascist????

      How old are YOU? Does your mommy know you’re on the computer?
      (sneer)

      1. Remember not to feed the Hihn, folks.

        1. Remember not to feed the Hihn, folks.

          Like this BOZO just did! The dude who LOVES Trump being even worse than Obama … on debt, GDP growth and jobs … after Obama gifted him the longest recovery ever, for an incoming President.

          Obama did that, starting from the second worst recession in that past 75 years. Trump’s ass is being kicked by a PROGRESSIVE … in the Trump New Deal

          1. See what I mean…

            1. Self-defense, goober.
              If you’ve been triggered, stop the unprovoked assaults.

              1. You start all of it. But you will soon die, gasometer, unable to breathe. And the world will rejoice.

            2. Whether you vote d or r, they’ll always blow up the deficit. R will blow it up unfunded tax cuts and military spending. D will use redistributive giveaways. Both won’t touch boomers giveaways like Medicare and social security. Unless we elect 500 Rand Paul clones to Congress we’re screwed.

              1. Rand Paul? The PHONY who shut down the government briefly, to protest higher spending as the cause of higher deficits. Then voted for an unpaid tax cut, creating even worse deficits?
                THAT Rand Paul?

    3. I want to take care your point Hoot. I agree with you that crisis interventions is not always free and it should not be. But the volume we are spending on corona is extremely large compared to other epidemic. Public awareness and precautionary measure help us to kill corona at least by 20%.

    4. Hoot, can you even read? You missed the whole point.

  2. Economy is going well… We’re in the money, honey!!!! Spend-spend-spend-spend SPEND!!! Buy us some more votes, dammit!

    Economy is down the shit-hole… We must spend-spend-spend SPEND, to SAVE the economy and stock market!!!

    Between the 2 approaches for 2 different kinds of time, we are DOOMED to always-expanding Government Almighty! Small government and individual freedom, kiss your ass goodbye!

  3. Yeah it is too bad we’ve got all that debt. But guess what. We have it.

    The best way to make this debt less permanent than the stuff that gets leveraged to the hilt via the Federal Reserve and banks is:

    Post Office bank. A GIRO type bank (similar to debit card model). ONLY does short term T-bills – no other lending. Anyone can open a checking/payments account at a Post Office. And yeah – it doesn’t pay interest either.

    This is a bank that doesn’t require FDIC insurance. Allows people as individuals to decide how much short government debt they want to use as basically m1 (I think) money – zero interest, infinite duration, etc.

    And when this ends – and the next 2008 crisis begins – then that bank is exactly what is needed to eliminate the ability of the banking system to extort bailouts.

    1. Non-responsive, off-topic and … VERY wrong.

      IT’S NOT THE FED FINANCING TRUMP’S RECORD-BREAKING NEW DEBT .. ALREADY AS MUCH AS OBAMA’S! (CBO 2024 FORECAST, VERSUS TRUMP’S THREE.

      1. You don’t know shit about banking or finance or debt or money. Writing it in all-caps doesn’t make whatever you think you know true

        1. (My attitude is determined by your snotty insults … despite total ignorance.)

          You don’t know shit about banking or finance or debt or money.

          HERE’S THE PROOF!!

          HERE’S WHO OWNS A RECORD $21.21 TRILLION OF US DEBT. …
          Americans own 70% of U.S. debt, but China, Japan loom large

          ***Does the Fed buy our debt, then give it to China and Japan?

          (this is from August, 2018, but I looked for a graph with BIG pictures, which even you should be able to grasp.

          US Investors = $6.89 T (32.5%)
          Foreign investors = $6.21 T (2.93%)
          US Government = $5.74 T (27%)
          ***Federal Reserve = $2.38 T (11.2%)

          Writing it in all-caps doesn’t make whatever you think you know true

          True. THAT requires a functioning brain ,.. and NEVER saying anything I cannot prove …which we all learned in high school.

          Anything else?

          1. Anything else?

            Yes. The Fed move announced a couple hours ago – means we either implement that Post Office Bank I just described – or this fall we’re going to have TARP 2.0 which will be 8-10x larger than 2008. Another bailout of the big at the expense of the individual and the small biz. Because that is what the Fed is. The lender of last resort to the banking system.

            It is time to stop letting that system be the monopoly distributor/pricer of Treasury bills/bonds. A PO Bank is what allows regular individuals and small businesses to benefit from that liquidity – and actually express their own choice as to whether they want money that is directly govt debt or money backed by mortgages and M&A levered on govt debt.

            It is Treasury bonds – NOT the banking system – that is the ‘risk-free asset’ at the base of the world’s entire financial system.

  4. Suderman already beat you to it. And unfunded liabilities are estimated to be 60 to 200 trillion by various experts. So this bit of election year spending to ease the minds of the public is a drop in the bucket. Honestly not even sure why this drivel was written except to inflame the situation.

    1. More spending is always a drop in the bucket, isn’t it? A billion drops here, a billion drops there, and that’s how we get a rather impressive looking debt clock.

  5. The Government Accountability Office has called the nation’s fiscal trajectory “unsustainable.”

    “Exactly! That’s why we’re goosing it up!”

  6. Crises are created for just such a purpose just look at Trumps a nd Pelosi’s proposals it just more money grabbing. Never let a crises go to waste and this one will never end and will be available every year now that teh sheep are obeying

    1. Yeah, let the fucking people die … in a crisis accelerated by Trump.
      Thanks for DISGRACING the Limited Government Movement. *sarc*

      1. I’m totally going to regret this, but what exactly did he do to accelerate it?

        1. Delayed and slowed everything, in perhaps every way possible.

          With a communicable virus … having a 14 day incubation (no symptoms) … we had infected people walking around, infecting others … while Trump kept saying it is minor, so don’t worry. It will just go away.

          THAT, his waving his arms and ridiculing it … which had his base laughing at it all … as we’ve seen in these comments page.

          In 2018, Trump shut down Pandemic Office in the White House.

          He lies about the number of test kits … told people NOT to be tested unless they have symptoms … when they could be carrying for 14 days …

          REJECTED making the tests free … then FORCED to cave, when the CDC head — badgered in a Congressional hearing, made a PERSONAL commitment to fight for free testing.

          ****HIS ADMINISTRATION CONFIRMED THEY WOULD MAKE DEEP CUTS IN CDC’S BUDGET ,… CONFIRMED ON FRIDAY.

          Trump Cuts Off Reporters’ Mics During Coronavirus Press Conference

          At his coronavirus national emergency press conference, Trump cut off reporters’ microphones so that they couldn’t ask follow up questions.

          The strategy of cutting off microphones didn’t prevent PBS’s Yamiche Alcindor from triggering Trump by asking him about his decision to close down the White House Pandemic Office

          He shouted down reporters, as he did after Charlottesville … when he LIED that the rioting and mass assaults were launched by … THE LEFT (omfg) … to defend his nazi and racist followers/

          Enough?

        2. Lol, regret it now?
          A full-on, bolded, copy-pasta Hihnsplosion. He even pulled out the all-caps and an irrelevant linkage.

          1. Everything he said was factual, though.

            1. No. Everything Hihn said was a lie or a non issue.
              – You, Hihn and your media pals flat out lied when you claimed Trump called the virus a “Hoax” and a “non-issue”.
              – You, Hihn and your media pals flat out lied when you claimed he lied about the number of test kits.
              – If people haven’t been exposed and don’t have symptoms, why are you demanding precious testing kits be diverted to them?
              – At virtually every presidential press conference since Carter they’ve cut off reporters’ microphones so they can’t queue jump by asking follow ups.
              – “He shouted down reporters” Good, fuck them.
              – Trump never defended Nazis at Charlottesville. That was proven to be an utter fucking lie and you know it.

              1. Hey, bend over, Mother’s lament, you lying sack of shit. This is JAMMED up your pathetic ass. *SNEER*
                ——–
                PART ONE: ACTUAL VIDEO …
                Trump states a PROVEN LIE at a press conference …. SHAMELESLY and “BULLYINGLY”

                “What about the alt left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt right? Do they have any assemblage of guilt? What about the fact that they came charging with clubs in their hands swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do.”

                Trump lied … to defend Nazi and racist assaults. SHOUTS DOWN news media – as he always does when guilty. Calls them LIARS. “I watched it all on television … SO DID YOU.”

                BULLSHIT. Nobody watched it. NO news cameras at the point of assault. News reports later broadcast what they called “personal videos” (cell phone videos?). None recorded the actual assault.

                That’s WHY the President’s “worst” act was NOT saying “… good people on both sides.” IT’S THE LIE ON WHO LAUNCHED THE ASSAULTS AND MURDERS … FOR LACK OF PROOF (provided here)

                NEXT: UNDENIABLE PROOF…. private videos surfaced only later … Trump is a lying sack of shit …. For any who may need proof

              2. PART TWO : MOAR VIDEO PROOF:
                The initial assault. … (Private video found on an alternate news twitter feed)

                “Alt-Left” standing peacefully, no visible clubs or bats.
                Alt-Right Fascists/Racists charge en masse, swinging clubs.
                Fascists carrying police-style riot shields. The assholes CAME for violence.

                TRUMP LIE: Alt-left led the assault
                PROOF: Alt-RIGHT did that

                TRUMP LIE: Alt-left attacked swinging clubs.
                PROOF: Alt-RIGHT -right DID … and had the ONLY clubs.
                Alt-LEFT standing peacefully, arms locked (like the 60s), not possible to carry ANYTHING

                TRUMP LIE: Alt-left wearing black helmets
                PROOF: Alt-RIGHT wearing black (NAZI) helmets, carrying NAZI flage,

                *****SHAME ON EVERYONE who LIES about the truth, to defend a morally debased President, over country and honor.

                NEXT: THE SMOKING GUN … TRUMP MUST BE REMOVED … FOR ABUSE OF POWER (lies, shouting down dissent) … AND DISGRACING THE PRESIDENCY.

              3. KAPOW : 4 white supremacists found guilty in violent Charlottesville rally described as ‘serial rioters’ …. by Trump’s own DOJ!!! (snort)

                Three members of a white supremacist group were sentenced to prison Friday for kicking, choking and punching multiple people during the 2017 “United the Right” rally in Charlottesville and other rallies in California. The three were members of the California-based militant white supremacist organization “Rise Above Movement.”

                A fourth defendant, Cole Evan White, will be sentenced at a later date, the attorney’s office said.

                “These defendants, motivated by hateful ideology, incited and committed acts of violence in Charlottesville, as well at other purported political rallies in California,” U.S. Attorney Thomas T. Cullen said.

                “They were not interested in peaceful protest or lawful First Amendment expression; instead, they intended to provoke and engage in street battles with those that they perceived as their enemies.”

                This has been converted to a Press Release, sent to all major media outlets, with all evidence … and to the House impeachment committees … when the timing seems optimal (after Trump is nominated)

                Trump and his cult are a disgrace to EVERY American value.

                1. Quoting CNN and Unicorn Riot. Pretty dodgy sources Hihn.

                  That’s the same CNN who spent 3+ years peddling the Russia hoax, doxxing random meme makers, harassing grandmothers, defaming Catholic teenagers, lying about Kavanaugh, and claiming a dead Iranian terrorist meant Armageddon. And they didn’t magically start telling you the truth in that article.

                  Also, your lie was that Trump endorsed the Charlottesville racists and called them “fine folk”, and you know that. But now you’re moving goalposts and trying to redefine your argument to be that you were talking about the racists and not about Trump, because you’re an insane, poo-eating weasel.

                  1. Also, your lie was that Trump endorsed the Charlottesville racists and

                    Never said that.
                    Said he lied.
                    Proved it.
                    Video

                    endorsed the Charlottesville racists and called them “fine folk”,

                    Never said that, either.

                    Quoting CNN and Unicorn Riot. Pretty dodgy sources Hihn.

                    ****GOTCHA!

                    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/white-supremacists-plead-guilty-charlottesville-riot-62804337

                    WHITE SUPREMACISTS PLEAD GUILTY TO CHARLOTTESVILLE RIOTING

                    (sneer)

                    Now YOU lie to defend nazis and racists.
                    The Trumpian mentality.

                  2. The Russia hoax wasn’t a hoax.

                2. Haha. LTT still bellowing on about nazis. Just like they want you to.

                  Good dog.

  7. “Having failed to be fiscally responsible when it would have been relatively easier, our elected officials will now likely hike spending even further.”

    We’ve been predicting all week that President Trump’s critics will criticize him for anything and everything he does in regards to the coronavirus as well as anything and everything he doesn’t do, so seeing people criticize President Trump for doing something as awful as spending money on the corornavirus is about as surprising as the sun rising this morning.

    If Reason had supported President Trump’s fight to cut $772 billion from Medicaid, a socialist entitlement program, instead of opposing it, that would have been great. It would have represented significant progress in the fight against entitlement spending.

    https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52849

    If Reason staff were supportive of President Trump’s push to change Medicaid into a series of block grants to the states so that the states could add work requirements among other ways of restricting eligibility for the program, that would have been great, too.

    If Reason had been supportive, instead of critical, of Trump’s push to make peace with the Taliban–so that we can withdraw our troops completely in 14 months and save money (and more) that way, that wouldn’t have been outside the boundaries for a libertarian publication.

    If Reason were supportive of the plan President Trump is pushing now to slash revenue by way of suspending payroll taxes–which is also fiscally restraining–that would have been alright, too. In fact, the reason the Democrats don’t want to suspend payroll taxes is because they want to spend that revenue in addition to whatever they can borrow.

    It would be one thing if Reason staff merely ignored President Trump’s attempts to restrain spending. Instead, Reason staff has been dismissive or downright hostile to President Trump’s efforts to cut spending. And their efforts have completely failed to make President Trump look bad. They’ve had the Streisand Effect like reaction, instead, of making President Trump look more fiscally conservative than the staff at Reason.

    President Trump’s policies are wrong when they’re wrong and they’re right when they’re right, but to a number of people on Reason’s staff, Trump’s policies are wrong when they’re wrong and wrong when they’re right–because the wrongness of President Trump’s policies, in their estimation, has nothing to do with the policies themselves and everything to do with the fact that they’re President Trump’s policies.

    That’s what we’re talking about when we talk about TDS.

    1. it is true and any president would be doing what Trump is doing despite any level debt, all though didn’t Biden mention FEMA camps for the afflicted. I though thats what the left predicted Trump was going to do just because he is Hitler

    2. Excellent post. Well said, sir.

    3. Trump Cuts Off Reporters’ Mics During Coronavirus Press Conference

      At his coronavirus national emergency press conference, Trump cut off reporters’ microphones so that they couldn’t ask follow up questions.

      The strategy of cutting off microphones didn’t prevent PBS’s Yamiche Alcindor from triggering Trump by asking him about his decision to close down the White House Pandemic Office

      He shut down the pandemic office in 2018.

      The “Press Conference” — to a muzzled press (sneer) — was meant to bail his ass for the MASSIVE failure of his public address … followed immediately by the overnight futures market crashing … then the Dow opened … and crashed over 10% … the biggest one-day percentage loss since 1957.

      But his cult is still in La La Land.
      It’s as if Trump’s New Deal WANTS to trigger a massive recession … after Obama gifted him the longest recovery EVER for an incoming President … only to see Trump first three doing WORSE THAN OBAMA’S FINAL THREE … ON NEW DEBT, JOBS AND GDP GROWTH.

      GDP growth DECLINED in 2019 … now THIS fuckup … WHEN HE ALREADY HAD THE WORST DEBT EVER (CBO 2016 FORECAST)

      Welcome to TRUMP’S New Deal.
      Bush gave us Obama, plus a total Dem Congress.
      Trump is giving us BIDEN 🙁 and risking another Dem landslide this year.

    4. If you are looking for ideological consistecy from Unreason, Ken, you will be sorely disappointed. Boehm and his fellow birdbrains (Unreason JournoLists whose names start with B) have only one consistent ideology: A sociopathic hatred of Orange Man Bad and contempt for those who support him.

      1. It’s tiring, though, to see them bemoan all the spending–and ignore, dismiss, or disparage every attempt by the Trump administration to cut spending, even on things as important and libertarian as slashing funding and eligibility for entitlement programs.

        After they’ve spent almost four years opposing President Trump’s efforts to slash spending on things like socialist entitlement programs, I’m not going to sit here and watch them bemoan all the spending of the past few years and pretend that they didn’t oppose slashing Medicaid funding and eligibility.

        See bullshit. Call out bullshit.

        Yes, Reason staff opposed a bill to slash $772 billion from Medicaid–because of what it didn’t do–a bill that President Trump pushed as hard as he could to get through the Senate.

        https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52849

        1. Meanwhile, here’s what the rest of the world is saying about Trump’s plan to turn Medicaid into a block grant program:

          “Key Findings: States that take up the block grant would see substantial reductions in Medicaid funding. Under our baseline scenario, the median state would face a reduction of 5.7 percent in fiscal year (FY) 2021; 14.6 percent in FY 2025; and 10.5 percent over the 2021–2025 period. The five-year median reduction in funding would be significantly larger if per enrollee spending growth is 1 percentage point above projections (13.9%), if enrollment grows at recent historical levels rather than projections (19.7%), or if a state reduces expenditures to capture “shared savings” (27.6%). Under all scenarios, the vast majority of Medicaid savings resulting from the funding reductions accrue to the federal government.

          —-The Commonwealth Fund, March 6, 2020

          https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/mar/fiscal-impact-trump-administration-medicaid-block-grant-initiative

          1. 11% over 5 years? Pffffft. Am I interpreting that correctly? Or is that 11% each year? Still should do it.

          2. MOAR CRAZED LIES BY SCHULTZ!
            THIS IS THE OPENING AT HIS LINK (sneer)

            <blockquote<Issue The Trump administration recently invited states to apply for the new Healthy Adult Opportunity Medicaid demonstration initiative, which lets states opt into a block grant funding model in exchange for fewer federal rules. By capping federal funding, the initiative exposes the Medicaid program to unprecedented financial risk.Pathetic?

        2. “Ohio public policy experts are divided on the Trump administration’s new Medicaid block grant program, which is designed to give states more flexibility in Medicaid spending, but cap a portion of federal contributions.

          Opponents of the plan, which was introduced Jan. 30, say it will cut benefits and enrollment.

          Supporters say it will help control costs and give states more flexibility over Medicaid dollars.”

          https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020/02/medicaid-block-grant-program-could-cap-spending-limit-benefits-in-ohio-experts-say.html

          If both opponents and supporters say it will control costs and slash benefits and enrollment, then libertarian capitalists should be enthusiastic supporters of this policy, right?

          We’re against socialist entitlement programs and we’re in favor of entitlement reform that slashes costs, and we’re against socialism and in favor of small fiscally conservative government no matter who is in the White House, isn’t that right?

          Meanwhile, Reason staff have opposed President Trump’s attempts to cut Medicaid every step of the way–and now they want to criticize President Trump for not doing enough to cut spending? In the past, no president has been libertarian, capitalist, or bold enough to slash Medicaid. If President Hillary had fought for this, I’d be giving her a ton of credit.

          1. If both opponents and supporters say it will control costs and slash benefits and enrollment, then libertarian capitalists should be enthusiastic supporters of this policy, right?

            (lol) Wron again,

            We’re against socialist entitlement programs and we’re in favor of entitlement reform that slashes costs, and we’re against socialism and in favor of small fiscally conservative

            That’s authoritarian, for goobers. Libertarians are not anti-government, we are pro-liberty. BIG difference,

            Expanding liberty always limits or shrinks government,
            Cutting government can REJECT free market outcomes and individual liberty … as you do,.

            In a free market, before Medicaid, there was 100% treatment (Medicaid is about 80%), through charity hospitals, financed by a wide variety of VOLUNTARY donations.

            That’s why progressives have been kicking your ass for decades. Unlike you, they claim to provide what people have always wanted, and always been willing to pay for.

            The LIBERTARIAN way is privatization, financed with 100% tax credits, a transition back to the free market OUTCOMES that you always shit on, It needs a transition, because the charity infrastructure must be rebuilt. The tax credits shift from government to private, at the exact pace needed.

            Meanwhile, Reason staff have opposed President Trump’s attempts to cut Medicaid

            I just told you why. WE support free market outcomes, which you ALWAYS want to destroy.

            And now they want to criticize President Trump for not doing enough to cut spending?

            We know HOW to do it, in line with free markets.

            You people focus on government, not people, with total contempt for Consent of the Governed — the exact opposite of individual liberty. Authoritarian diktats,

            You’re no more libertarians than Bernie. Indeed, your mentality is a bigger threat to liberty than he is. And a disgrace to economic liberty, your alt-right, with Ron Paul as your statist godfather.

      2. True, we’ve hated authoritarians for over 50 years.

        Anyone that would lie so shamelessly, to defend nazis and racists in Charlottesville .. which you defend, just as shamelessly.

        The worst President on new debt EVER — as much new debt in 3 years, as Obama added AFTER 8 years.

        Obama started from the 2nd worst recession since 1945.
        But gifted Trump the longest recovery EVER, for an incoming President, which Trump pissed all away — MORE debt. FEWER jobs, and LESS GDP growth = LOSER.

        Trump Cuts Off Reporters’ Mics During Coronavirus Press Conference

        At his coronavirus national emergency press conference, Trump cut off reporters’ microphones so that they couldn’t ask follow up questions.

        The strategy of cutting off microphones didn’t prevent PBS’s Yamiche Alcindor from triggering Trump by asking him about his decision to close down the White House Pandemic Office

        He shut down the pandemic office in 2018

        This disaster was after his oval office address exploded in his puss! The overnight stock futures collapsed, immediately when he was done. Then the DOW crashed over 10%, the largest one day decline since 1987.

        Since this debacle began, the DOW has lost as more, percentage, than the Market Crash of 1929 — wiping out trillions of dollars in investment capital. Why has NO other stock exchange suffered anywhere near as much damage.

        Will you say the market did NOT crash so badly — a media hoax?
        Or that it’s all part of the deep state conspiracy? (lol)

      3. “Unreason.” How brilliant! Not.

        1. “Not.”

          The early 1990s called and want their pathetically overused punchline back.

          1. The Vince sock is operated by a 16 year old valley girl, apparently.

            1. Is that why Mother’s lament was TOTALLY HUMILIATED here:
              https://reason.com/2020/03/13/coronavirus-expensive-trump-congress-debt-deficit-huge/?replytocom=8167462#respond

              Caught red-handed … DEFENDING neo-nazis and racists .. as DISGUSTING as Trump.

              1. Nope. You’re lying Hihn, and you know it. You’re trying to pretend we were talking about the racists, and not your lie about Trump’s speech.
                People aren’t as stupid as you are. Anyone who reads that will spot your childish attempt at misdirection. You’re not fooling anyone, Hihn.

                1. The link.

                2. Hihn will soon die from Covid. This is good.

                  1. The link.

          2. Still better than “Unreason.”

    5. THIS is how the alt-right DISGRACES Limited Government. … by rejecting free market OUTCOMES

      If Reason had supported President Trump’s fight to cut $772 billion from Medicaid,

      Libertarians are no so economically ILLITERATE. People have VOLUNTARILY financed indigent health care, since the British Guilds in the 150Os. WITH BETTER OUTCOMES.

      Educate yourself.
      Before Medicaid, the poor had 100% TREATMENT, provided by thousands a Charity Hospitals, financed by a vast, independent network of church collection plates, charities, foundations and the modern equivalent of those guilds — the vast charity fundraising by FRATERNALS, like Eagles, Kiwanis, Rotary, plus the then-common ethnic lodges.

      THAT is the free-market outcome that you REJECT … want to take from the poor to enrich yourself. SHAME ON YOU.

      YOU are why progressives have been kicking our ass for decades. When ONLY they CLAIM to provide what people have ALWAYS paid for, freely … who wins and who loses. DUH.

      In contrast to your piggish greed, LIBERTARIANS would PRIVATIZE Medicaid … 100% tax CREDITS for cash contribution to PRIVATE health care charities and provider. Just that simple, Trumptard.

      YOU are a greatest threat to free market outcomes … even worse than Progressives. Your are MORE authoritarian. SHITTING on Consent of the Governed, as Jefferson and the Founders weep in silent shame.

      1. Reason needs an ignore button too.

        1. I’d actually subscribe to the rag if they gave one to subscribers. This idiot’s about as bad as that asshole ‘gambol, gambol, gamboling’ about the comments, searching for his buffalo, or whatever his shtick was.

          What Hihn’s deal, anyway? Wasn’t he some gofer for Ron Paul once upon a time?(and if so, that would be Exhibit 87 for why bless-his-heart Ron Paul had less business being President than I did.) Or am I confusing two separate clowns?

          It’s been an exhilarating day. I’ve never seen a line to get into Costco before, like it were a nightclub, or something. People are starting to completely lose their shit over this bug.

          1. PROOF! Two alt-right Gomers HATE free-market OUTCOMES.
            PROUD to be authoritarians.

            Authoritarian Left = Authoritarian Right,

            1. Don’t worry – you can still post. Some of us will just !-choose-! that you not flood our screens with garbage. I’d actually pay for a subscription with that benefit also 🙂

              PROOF! The power to choose is worth something to some people.
              TheLibertyTruthTeller believes peoples ability to choose is a form of Authoritarianism over the Authoritarian Believers.

              1. PROOF! The power to choose is worth something to some people

                NOT YOU!

                Free market outcomes are the RESULT of free choice. DUH
                I support. YOU OPPOSE

                https://reason.com/2020/03/13/coronavirus-expensive-trump-congress-debt-deficit-huge/#comment-8167045

          2. What Hihn’s deal, anyway?
            Asperger’s for one, and probably Histrionic Personality Disorder (HPD).
            He’s also admitted an interest in Coprophagia so there’s probably a host of issues leading to that.

            1. Severe dementia. Maybe Hihn is really Joe Biden.

          3. Hihn doesn’t like Ron Paul.

            1. VERY good!

              1. You found a buddy! Makes sense. Everyone hate him too.

                You faggots should go fuck each other’s asses then 69.

          4. My guess is Ron Paul has probably forgotten more than Trump will ever know.

            1. Maybe if Paul wasn’t so senile, he would have done more than occupy space as a Congressman.

              One piece of legislation enacted into law for the entirety of his tenure in Congress. It gave a parcel of land to the Galveston Historical Society. Other than that, he accomplished nothing…just like most crackpot libertarians on the rare occasions they’re given responsibllity.

              1. I think Paul wanted to get rid of laws instead of creating more ones.

                If you hate libertarians, why are you commenting here and not on Breitbart?

              2. Hoot, you seem to dislike Paul as much as Hihn does. Lol.

            2. RON PAUL? THE WORST BIGOT IN 50 YEARS!!

              He BRAGS, to his alt-right cult that he sponsored a bill that would have forbidden SCOTUS to even consider any appeals to DOMA … homosexuals DENIED the defense of constitutional right .. the first such group ban since SLAVERY. Fascist

              Then, he said “rogue judges” overturned DOMA .. entirely their power for over 200 years. Fascist.

              He LIES about the Constitution … defends the “states rights” of the KKK, southern racist and JIM CROW … NOT federalism.

              States DO NOT have powers never delegated.
              States MAY NOT violate unalienable rights.

              10A is STRICTLY limited by 9A … applies ONLY to powers like speed limits, LOCAL issues. CANNOT shit on the Constitution, Southern racists invented it as an excuse to DENY UNALIENABLE RIGHTS. Until Eisenhower sent federal troops to Little Rock, in 1957, ordered to use armed force if necessary, to defend the rights of 9 school kids.

              Gov Faubus later defended his actions — using his state militia to use force against 9 kids — as defending his state from an overreaching judiciary … and THAT is who molded Ron Paul. ..

              The Ninth PROVES Ron Paul a states rights bigot.
              “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

              In a government of delegated powers, unenumerated RIGHTS are superior to unenumerated POWERS. duh

              Our fundamental rights include Life, an undefined group called Liberty, an undefined group called Pursuit of Happiness … and … YOU tell us what rights are GUARANTEED by the Ninth, that NO level of government may “deny or disparage.”

              ONLY SCOTUS can recognize those rights, as a check against abuses by the other two branches … as judges and tribunals have done since the 1500s. DUH

              1. Well, Paul has still probably forgotten more than Trump will ever know, even with all you said there.

              2. I like that Paul and his son support cutting government spending unlike most Republicans.

                1. WHAT A SUCKER!
                  Rand is a TOTAL MORAL HYPOCRITE. Even his namesake, Ayn Rand, ridiculed his authoritarianism.

                  Rand shut down the federal government to protest higher spending … citing his concern for deficits.

                  Then he voted FOR unpaid tax cuts with WORSE deficits.

                  What kind of FRAUD defends stealing money from future generations — WITHOUT THEIR VOTE OR CONSENT — to line their own pockets?

                  Jefferson demanded a ban on such irresponsibility, but he was in Paris during the Constitutional Convention and could only send a very lengthy letter to Madison (who ignored it all)

    6. A+ Ken.

      If they had any sense of honor, integrity, or dignity that would leave a permanent mark.

  8. Meanwhile a city in illinois is banning gun sales and other things for this “emergency” this is a real problem and what i’ve been thinking the true goal is.

    https://bearingarms.com/cam-e/2020/03/13/il-mayor-declaration-ban-gun-ammo-sales/

    1. Most towns have laws allowing them to do this, its nothing new

      1. Oh yeah, they aren’t actually banning sales, just passing a law saying they have the power to do that in a emergency (which is a law most cities and towns have)

        1. Ron REVELS in hysteria. 🙂

        2. And you support this because?

          1. He never said he supported it.
            Just educating one of your fellow ignorant goobers.
            Hoping to moot the hysteria.

            1. Very well then.

              1. BTW, people, this proves that Hihn and I are not the same person. So everyone who called me “Hihn” owes me an apology.

                1. Anyone who said Vince Smith is Hihn … owes HIHN an apology!

  9. It’s like you don’t even understand basic Keynes. When the economy is troubled the government should increase spending in order to stimulate the economy, make up for all the spending the consumers aren’t doing, take up the slack in the employment and the demand side of things. Conversely, when the economy is doing well, the government should increase spending because everybody’s got jobs and money and the government can afford to spend more money. (Admittedly, I haven’t actually studied Keynes in depth so I might not have caught all the nuances of his economic theory, but I’ve seen how Washington works and I’m pretty sure I’ve managed to catch the gist of it.)

    1. This has nothing at all to do with Keynes. This is not about ‘the economy’. This is about a virus. And in fact, the worse off the economy gets in the short-term, the better off the fight is against the virus. Because people aren’t shopping etc.

      Anyone looking for a ‘stimulus’ package is in fact looking for a bailout. Further when on Earth did ‘free market’ people get so allergic to recessions and financial market ‘pain’. Recessions clear out the big and the constipated. And make way for the small and vibrant. Creative destruction. And financial market pain reintroduces RISK to the lazy and the entitled. Even better the pain it causes is borne almost entirely by those who benefited the most from the previous pleasure.

      1. //Recessions clear out the big and the constipated. And make way for the small and vibrant.//

        “How to Have Safe Anal: Smaller dicks, Bigger assholes”

      2. Looking for a bailout? The Wall Street bailouts have already started.

      3. I’m pretty sure Jerryskids was being sarcastic.

    2. //Admittedly, I haven’t actually studied Keynes//

      Eh, you hit the nail on the head anyway.

      Keynesian theory is basically “spend all the fucking time; money is imaginary anyway.”

      1. Uhh, no. Kaynes has been bastardized by progressives, and your ignorance likely traces to your tribal bigotry. EQUAL RIGHTS! (gasp)

        WA has actual Keynes in its constitution. Smarter than the dumbass balanced budget amendment.

        Spending is limited by fixed constant dollars per person.
        Surpluses must be set aside in an interest earning “Rainy Day Fund.”
        Any higher spending in downturns comes from SAVINGS. not borrowing.
        If it’s REAL bad, it takes a 2/3 majority to use debt.

        It was amazing to watch, when I lived there. BOTH parties fight to protect the Rainy Day Fund, because they don’t know which party might have to increase taxes, or cut services.

        Common sense.

    3. “It’s like you don’t even understand basic Keynes. When the economy is troubled the government should increase spending in order to stimulate the economy, make up for all the spending the consumers aren’t doing”

      The aspect of this that’s applicable is to some on Reason staff’s opposition to suspending payroll taxes.

      The Democrats oppose suspending payroll taxes because they know it will reduce the amount of money Congress has available to spend–and they want to spend that money for old fashioned “stimulus” because they’re left-wing Keynesian fucknuts. The idea that sustainable economic growth and increases in the standard living come from big government and government spending has been anathema to libertarian capitalism, at least, since Hayek put Keynes’ ass in a sling.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk

      . . . which is to say that even the Keynesian left–even the Keynesian left!–opposes President Trump’s suspension of the payroll tax for fear that it will reduce the ability of Congress to spend. That Suderman and younger staff here think that cutting taxes will increase spending, they’re all alone out there in the wilderness talking out of their asses.

      If I’m reading that wrong, and their concern is really the inflationary effects of having less tax revenue to service our debt, that’s even more preposterous. Anyone who looks at the market for treasuries right now and thinks that inflation is what we need to worry about is either blind or completely ignorant of what those prices mean. The yield on the 10-year treasury is at under 1%. That’s how scared we need to be about inflation.

      Meanwhile, the solution to inflation isn’t higher taxes either!

      The solution to inflation is cutting government spending–not keeping taxes high–and, like I said, everybody but the staff here at Reason (including the Keynesian Democrats) seem to understand that taking money away from the government and letting consumers keep more of the money they earn means less money for Congress to spend. If you want to reduce spending, give Congress less money to spend. If you want to give consumers more discretionary income, stop stealing it and giving it to Congress!

      1. This approach also has the benefit of being morally right.

        1. Only to fascists who reject consent of the governed.
          Or who “think” taxation is theft.

    4. BEST SATIRE OF THE YEAR!

      “It’s like you don’t even understand basic Keynes”

    5. That’s because basic Keynes is pure stupidity. His focus purely on liquidity is just the broken window fallacy. His ‘paradox of thrift’ is an outright lie – saved money isn’t wasted, it’s invested. It’s errors like this that cause error propagation where government policies based on Keynesian theory make the next economic crisis worse (because the government uses policy to artificially reduce savings, which means a lack of investment in future production). And by restricting his attention to the macro level, it encourages poor government policy that focuses on old established businesses rather than new disruptive enterprises – this cronyism locks in outdated modes of doing things and the associated government meddling in the economy disconnects the market businesses perceive from the demands of consumers. It’s like Argentina continuing to produce 1960s Ford models in the 1990s – it worked in the 60s, so it must be the right way to do things, and government manipulation stopped innovation in its tracks.

      Central planning doesn’t worked. Full stop. That’s not just opinion – Mises and Hayek proved it (and Hayek won the Nobel for it).

      1. *doesn’t work

        …wishing there was an edit function.

  10. While you aren’t wrong, at the same time, I think you are ignoring the panic going on that is only going to get worse.

    Forget toilet paper, people are now panic buying and fighting over food

  11. Two days ago this virus was a big annoyance. Now it’s a crisis. In the span of two days. It’s crazy how easy it has been to drive this story to a panicked frenzy.

    1. Just one of many coming at you nonstop till November.

    2. The reason it is easy to drive people to a panic now is precisely because we have abdicated the notion of a social contract and diminished our own ‘citizenship’ to – 30 minutes of deciding who to vote for every two/four years. And those we elect have only one option in the absence of ‘citizens’ and that is to throw money at problems in hopes of solving them.

      When people themselves have no responsibility for or involvement in how their community governs itself, then the only thing they can do is panic. They cannot DO anything else.

      Preventing that panic is exactly what militia accomplishes. When there is a legitimate threat to that community, the call is instead for the militia to muster. People know where to go what to do where they already trained as a unit (even if it was a long time) and where they individually trained in some skill set. It becomes really easy then for that group to self-organize to deal with the particular situation.

      A community that thinks militia is only about guns will find itself rather useless in this particular situation. It will have failed. Like the community that doesn’t even know what militia is and is relying for everything on bureaucrats, ‘someone else’, and some mass media telling it stories – it will then panic.

      A community that thinks militia includes disease outbreak and natural disaster and extreme weather and cyber/grid shutdown and logistics and civil affairs/construction and disorder/riot and search/rescue and the guns stuff and etc will find that they have a ton of skills and knowledge that they can apply. In a situation where they don’t really need to be paid because their time dealing with the actual situation is far more valuable than time spent in line hoarding toilet paper. Guess what – they WON’T panic. Because they have a productive option for their time.

      The fact is that this is also the cheapest way – by far – to deal with any/every ‘surge’ type situation a community might face. For those who think their only civic obligation is to pay cash – well they will find themselves at the end of line in those situations when cash doesn’t actually do shit. eg if what is needed is hospital beds and masks and ventilators and such, then payment in kind is the only thing that matters apart from payment in time/knowledge.

      1. That’s actually a good read…

        Instead of, “For those who think their only civic obligation is to pay cash – well they will find themselves at the end of line in those situations when cash doesn’t actually do shit.”

        It should be, “Community Collectives”. Actually they have voluntary search & rescue, fire, and even police where I live (Red State) that gets called into action when needed. (I guess one could refer to them as a State Militia but they certainly aren’t called that).

        1. ‘Community collectives’? No I just don’t think you understand what I’m trying to say. And the fact that you left off the last sentence of that para tells me you are citing that segment in order to slot me into some pre-conceived pigeonhole in your head. Read the last sentence again – for comprehension this time. It should be obvious that cash is not fungible with ‘hospital bed’.

          Actually they have voluntary search & rescue, fire, and even police where I live (Red State) that gets called into action when needed.

          And if two houses are burning in a neighborhood, which fire gets put out first? The guy who’s part of the volunteer fire department or the asshole who’s always before yapped ‘Get Off My Lawn’ and is now yapping about how much he pays in cash taxes? Putting out a house fire is one of those times when cash is not fungible with what is actually needed. If he wants to pay in kind – say providing the protective equipment at that location or whatever, then he has paid in-kind.

          The difficulty for that person who relies on ‘cash’ rather than personal time/labor is that, in an emergency, HE is the one who incurs the price volatility and supply unavailability etc of whatever is in immediate shortage in that emergency. And in a global epidemic well gosh – that’s a real problem. He is – totally useless – waving cash around without actually helping. He COULD have been useful – six months before – arguing that the community needs to stockpile this thing or that thing that is useful in the particular emergency. But it would have cost cash then – and he didn’t want to do that then. And unless he was really concerned about that risk then and bought the thing in-kind – and now supplies it in-kind – then his cash is – irrelevant.

          1. So your point is those who complain about, “how much one pays in cash taxes? (GOV)” are the same one’s relying on “(GOV)cash being fungible with ‘hospital beds’.” while not realizing that that someone’s “personal time/labor” is involved in the creation of “hospital beds” of which they have no interest in buying in preparation (being responsible) or providing their time/labor when needed like an emergency?

            1. The medium of exchange (money) is not the same thing as the objects of exchange (in economic terms – land, labor, capital). Money is NOT capital.

              In normal times, that does not matter because price signals work to increase production or combine in different ways or move those objects from here to there etc. It’s the wonderful thing about the pricing system. But ‘in normal times’ is not surge/emergency. Ordering face masks 3 mos ago that arrived yesterday is not the same as ordering face masks today that will (maybe) arrive in three months. And that becomes very very clear in an emergency.

              It is why militia-based response systems also have stockpiles – or arsenals – or warehouses – etc. Where the community itself has ‘prepped’ ahead of time for the emergencies it thinks it will face. For the last 40 years those have been gutted. Both the civic ones and private ones (JIT). Advocated by precisely the people who think a stockpile of money, lines of credit, gold coins, etc is a fungible replacement. It isn’t.

              The people who failed to help that community actually prepare for the surge/emergency are precisely the people who have PROVEN themselves useless. And if they aren’t now willing to contribute labor/kind – just like everybody else – with no privilege they think they are entitled to from their proven failed past – then they are a hindrance.

              1. Nor BTW is ‘individual prepping’ or hoarding a substitute. Even assuming the individual preppers are willing to pay ‘in-kind’ in that emergency (not remotely the case), what that means is that newly created stockpile will apparently consist of ammo, toilet paper, canned lima beans, and gold coins. I’m not sure even MacGyver can cobble that together into something that works for this.

            2. And news just in: HHS computers are under hack attack.

              Centralizing all this stuff is a separate problem. But this is yet another example of where militia needs to be defined broadly – because even if the original problem is ‘natural’ – enemies will take advantage of that to also attack.

              Now you want to pretend that what is needed now is some asshole yapping about cash or an anti-hacker who knows the systems under attack?

              1. It sounds like you’ve got some deep issues regarding our monetary system with the seemingly attacks on the “cash” system. I’d suggest checking out bitcoin or gold/silver. And totally agree that GOV’s monopoly over fiat money (paper) they can just print out of thin air since the Democratically pitched Federal Reserve Act is entirely flawed.

                But its a littler concerning in that it feels like you’re attempting to de-associate the representation of skill/labor/produce from wealth at all. No matter what system you want to support. When a person offers their skill/labor/produce it should have worth otherwise you’re lobbying to re-enact slavery.

  12. Trump’s favored solution, a payroll tax cut that would extend through November, would reduce federal revenues by an estimated $840 billion.

    First Suderman and now Boehm arguing that economic stimulus shouldn’t be in the form of tax cuts.
    I wonder what the libertarian take on this is? Does anyone know of a magazine where I could find that sort of perspective?

    1. “I wonder what the libertarian take on this is?”

      The libertarian program for economic prosperity is straightforward:

      (1) Abolish tariffs.
      (2) Open the borders — even during a pandemic.
      (3) Abolish the minimum wage.

      1. You forgot subsidizing your Koch overlord and master as (4). How much is he up from yesterday’s market rise? 😛

        1. Subsidizing? HOW? Put up or shut up.
          Koch has spent hundreds of millions OPPOSING crony capitalism
          The proud mooch is YOU … as everyone can see.,

          1. No he hasn’t. Every penny spent supporting R’s is supporting crony capitalism. Not that there are any alternatives in our system. But that is precisely because wealthy folks who claim to be against cronyism never actually put their money where their mouth is. Or look very closely at where they themselves acquire their wealth

            1. YOU MEAN THOSE GODDAMN RICH FOLKS … WHO SUBSIDIZE HALF YOUR ENTIRE PERSONAL INCOME TAX .,.. you whiny mooch.

              Plus, you’re full of shit. HOW has he supported crony capitalism??

          2. Koch does support government funding of medical research.

      2. No mention of Koch? I’ll drink anyway.

    2. Like your fellow proggies, blissfully unaware that stimulus has NEVER worked. EVER.

      Does anyone know of a magazine where I could find that sort of perspective?

      Daily Kos would fulfill your fantasies

      First Suderman and now Boehm arguing that economic stimulus shouldn’t be in the form of tax cuts.

      Umm, should not exist at all. Tell us when one has EVER worked.

      Your just a greedy mooch, wanting to steal from your own children and grandchildren … WITHOUT THEIR VOTE.

      Plus, Trump is already the worst President on debt EVER … from his last UNPAID tax cut.

      Liberals borrow trillions to pay for free stuff.
      Conservatives borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts.

      1. Conservatives ?pay? for “Free Tax Cuts” lmao….
        — Is that like a “Free claim to one’s own property?”
        …and to think that all this time I thought claiming one’s own stuff as his/her own was an instinctively natural right. I thought only in slavery driven communist countries was someone else the owner of one’s personal creation and/or goods.

        1. Conservatives ?pay? for “Free Tax Cuts” lmao….
          — Is that like a “Free claim to one’s own property?

          IT’S NOT YOUR MONEY … GOMER … IT’S MONEY AND TAXES STOLEN FROM YOUR OWN CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN … WHICH THEY HAVE NO VOTE ON … TO LINE YOUR OWN POCKETS.

          CONSERVATIVES KNEW THAT … BEFORE YOU BECAME A PACK OF WHINING MOOCHES … SUCKING ON THE PUBLIC TEAT.

          ECONOMICS 101, FOR THE ILLITERATE. I’ll try to dumb it down.
          There are two ways to pay for tax cuts – borrow or spending cuts.
          ONLY spending cuts keep your own money.
          ***HOW THE HELL CAN IT BE YOUR MONEY, IF IT MUST BE BORROWED, TO GIVE YOU.
          IS A HOME LOAN YOUR OWN MONEY?
          (pees pants laughing(

          But thanks for PROVING you’re as big a teat-sucker as Bernie and Elizabeth … exactly as I said,

          TANSTAAFL
          “There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch,” Bernie, Liz and TJJ2000

          1. You’re entirely backwards —
            Tax Money = It *IS* my money that is getting TAKEN!!!
            Grants & Subsidies = It’s not their money!!! (Your are right here but you don’t say this you abstractly say its the ones sucking off the public teat and deceptively try to relate that to Tax Cuts).

            1. Tax Money = It *IS* my money that is getting TAKEN!!!

              ONE MORE TIME FOR GOMER

              ECONOMICS 101, FOR THE ILLITERATE. I’ll try to dumb it down.
              There are two ways to pay for tax cuts – borrow or spending cuts.
              ONLY spending cuts keep your own money.
              ***HOW THE HELL CAN IT BE YOUR MONEY, IF IT MUST BE BORROWED, TO GIVE YOU.

              ***IS A HOME LOAN YOUR OWN MONEY? (pees pants laughing)

              And they VOTE. 🙁

              you abstractly say its the ones sucking off the public teat and deceptively try to relate that to Tax Cuts).

              ***HOW IS IT YOUR MONEY, WHEN YOU STEAL IT FROM YOUR OWN CHILDREN?

              JUST LIKE BERNIE, YOU THINK DEBT IS MONOPOLY MONEY!

              Democrats borror trillions to pay for free stuff.
              Republicans borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts.
              Left – Right = Zero

              1. ONE MORE TIME FOR THE ILLOGICAL

                “HOW THE HELL CAN IT BE YOUR MONEY, IF IT MUST BE BORROWED, TO GIVE YOU.” — NO ONE gets money given to them when they pay taxes….. Unless its on some welfare program like E.I.C. If I do get a !!–refund–!! <keyword; its what I already PAID too much of!!!!!

                You and almost all of the annoying clan seem to have this seriously problem with thinking that "Not Stealing" = "Giving".

                It echo's extremely loud in the deception of, "paying for tax cuts"… It's not a "paying" situation…. It's a "not stealing" situation…

                1. hahahahahahah

                  “HOW THE HELL CAN IT BE YOUR MONEY, IF IT MUST BE BORROWED, TO GIVE YOU.” —

                  NO ONE gets money given to them when they pay taxes…..

                  IT’S THE TAX CUTS…. THE TAXES THEY DON’TPAY! …

                  **IS A HOME LOAN YOUR OWN MONEY? (pees pants laughing)

                  ***HOW IS IT YOUR MONEY, WHEN YOU STEAL IT FROM YOUR OWN CHILDREN?

                  JUST LIKE BERNIE, YOU THINK DEBT IS MONOPOLY MONEY!

                  Democrats borror trillions to pay for free stuff.
                  Republicans borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts.
                  Left – Right = Zero

                  1. IT’S THE TAX CUTS…. THE TAXES THEY DON’TPAY! …
                    — Is entirely equivalent to —
                    “Not Stealing” = “Giving”

                    We couldn’t STEAL it from you thus we must be giving you something.

    3. Why do you support Trump bailing out big oil, though?

      1. “Trump bailing out big oil’?? Is this really true or is this just another, “starting on the wrong side of possession to begin with” propaganda? Where one claims stealing only 80% of their profit instead of 90% is “bailing them out”.

    4. Mother’s lament Why do you support unfounded tax cuts that take money from Social Security and Medicare?

      1. Is that like the “unfounded justice” that makes theft a crime?

        How about just selling off the FDR curse of monopolizing the U.S. Social Security & Medicare to a single private business that has to compete with others. Like say 401K investment firms – and just leave locally implmented ‘welfare’ departments in charge of local welfare where leeching beggars can’t hide behind speaking for everyone in their care-bear [WE] delusion land.

        1. Sorry. Obviously meant UNFUNDED.

      2. “unfounded tax cuts that take money from Social Security and Medicare”
        Fuck, seriously?
        It’s like Vince expects libertarians to believe in the same sort bullshit that gets the Vox/Mother Jones/Jacobin/Salon crowd all sticky in the trousers.

      3. Considering outcomes of medicare are no better than having no healthcare at all, i fully support cutting all its tax revenue. Especially since it drives up the cost of healthcare for everyone else.

        I’d support cutting social security too, but we’d have to provide restitution for people who already paid in… it would be complicated. But considering the Real Rate of Return for people born in 2000 is like 0.2%, it’s not like Social Security is actually a success story… Even people born in 1975 are seeing less than 2% returns, and people born in 1950 are ~4%. An idiot could have invested in the general performance of the stock market and done better.

        So.. ‘unfounded’? Not so much. Covid-19 isn’t the reason to do it though. I’d say it should be done on principle, but you don’t even need to go as far as principle – it should be done on a simple cost-benefit analysis. Benefits – zero, cost – substantial.

        1. “I’d support cutting social security too, but we’d have to provide restitution for people who already paid in… it would be complicated”

          I agree that, practically, you’d have to find some way to make people believe they would be compensated, but why? People also played into welfare and housing assistance, yet likely most won’t use those programs.

          That’s what SS is: welfare for those unable to work due to age or disability (SSDI). Like welfare, it needs to have income caps for eligibility. The tax that funds it needs to be rolled into general income tax, with the cap removed on the income subject to it. Convert the SS bonds to regular Treasury bonds.

          Then we can ask the questions of how much dog food do we as a society feel Grandma and Pa have to eat before the Government will step in and help them out. Grandma is not entitled to get her money back anymore than I’m entitled to get my money back that goes to support teenage immigrant welfare mothers on drugs.

          1. I’d say – Just put the whole U.S. Social Security firm up on public auction with the requirement to fulfill the contracts (legal proceeding) on the books. Companies buy each other out all the time under these same terms.

            Legislation can prevent fraud and require each retirement company to carry security if needed (i.e. coverage insurance – like FDIC). A lot like how auto insurance is dealt with.

            1. WHERE WILL THEY GET THE MONEY TO FULFILL THE CONTRACTS?

              Companies buy each other out all the time under these same terms.

              *** TO EARN MORE PROFIT.
              *** FIRST YOU WANT ME TO PAY MONEY TO INCREASE MY DEBT!! (the auction)
              ***THEN YOU WANT ME TO LOSEMORE MONEY BY FULFILLING CONTACTS MADE BY THE GOVERNMENT,

              ***STILL CONFUSED?
              GOVERNMENT HAS LIABILITIES
              PEOPLE WILL PAY ASSETS, TO BUY LIABILITIES!.
              ***AND GOVERNMENT WILL REPLACE LIABILITIES WITH ASSETS ,… FOR FREE! omfg

              ******HOW MUCH WILL YOU PAY ME, TO ASSUME ALL REMAINING PAYMENTS ON MY HOME MORTGAGE?

              He cannot comprehend a single word of this. BET ME!
              Typical Trumpster!!

              1. From current and future membership and/or Treasury bonds. If the government has already spent ALL the Social Security funds what makes you think they can pay for it now??? By stealing even MORE to spend ALL of it again, and again, and again….

                You seem to position your theories constantly inline with the right to STEAL. You don’t see any value in individual choice or responsibility. You seem to think it’s the governments job to STEAL and spend instead of to prosecute those who do it. In private hands “profit seeking” companies who cannot fulfill their contracts will be held responsible. You want to alleviate this responsibility by calling the corporation GOV and allowing it to continue.

                1. WHY WOULD ANYONE GIVE AWAY MONEY, IN EXCHANGE FOR DEBT?

                  TJJ2000:
                  “I have a million dollars in cash, which I want to exchange for a million dollars in debt.”

                  +$1,000,000 lost cash
                  +$1,000,000 new debt to repay
                  =$2,000,000 LOSS.

                  GOBSMACKED

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  14. haha don’t care..
    let them go bankrupt. it’s not my problem.
    If the feds end up stripping down to the bone and spending all their revenues on debt services, that an IMPROVEMENT.

    1. Alt-right genius wants American to be taxed to receive …. nothing
      AND that it’s not his problem!
      Can he get elected on that?
      To even dog catcher?
      Why are these people so ignorant of Will of the People? And Consent of the Governed? If not ignorance, contempt?

      Because the Authoritarian Right, which has spawned most fascist governments in human history.

      1. “Authoritarian Right, which has spawned most fascist governments in human history” — LIE… It’s the complete opposite..

        1. Hitler was alt-right. (corporatist)
          Mussolini was alt-left (unionist)

          Fascism can be either left or right.
          Right-wing fascism uses government force to benefit the right.
          Left-wing fascism uses government force to benefit the left.
          DUH

          Why do YOU say left-wingers would use government force to benefit RIGHT-wingers?

          Would the KKK use government force to benefit African-Americans?
          Would Jews use government force to benefit anti-semites?
          Is it crackers to slip a rozzer, the dropsy in snide?

          1. Hitler was the leader of the Nazi Part
            https://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/Nazi
            Synonyms: national socialist

            Now which side is as we speak nominating a self-described National Socialist?

  15. Trump Cuts Off Reporters’ Mics During Coronavirus Press Conference

    At his coronavirus national emergency press conference, Trump cut off reporters’ microphones so that they couldn’t ask follow up questions.

    The strategy of cutting off microphones didn’t prevent PBS’s Yamiche Alcindor from triggering Trump by asking him about his decision to close down the White House Pandemic Office

    He shut down the pandemic office in 2018

    Thank goodness THIS fiasco came on a Friday. No stock market for two days ,… but will he crash the futures market AGAIN? His oval office address was followed IMMEDIATELY by the CRASH of overnight stock futures ,,, followed by the Dow’s biggest one-day drop since 1987 (crashed over 10%)

    Can America survive this President?

    1. America will do just fine. You evidently….not so much. 🙂

      1. My question was rhetorical, IF American survives long enough to kick his ass out of the White House.

        America cannot be “fine” with an autocratic President who repeatedly suppresses the free press, in severe violation of his Oath of Office.
        And SHITS on our constitutional checks and balances, between three EQUAL branches

        The same President who LIED so shamelessly about who launched the rioting and mass assaults in Charlottesville .. to defend his neo-nazi and white nationalist supporters.

        Then again, he does know that wind turbines cause cancer. Believes SCOTUS could have overturned an impeachment. And other grave threats to Truth, Justice and the American Way. 🙂

        1. What’s completely funny is your use the term, “constitutional checks and balances, between three EQUAL branches” is completely out of context of it’s meaning printed clearly word-for-word in the Constitution.

          Just Gotta love how Anti-Trumpsters use buzz-words about the Constitution to defeat the Constitution itself.

          Dammit; Lie Teller – where’s your bold’s and capitols that are sure tellers of your lying propaganda?

          1. What’s completely funny is your use the term, “constitutional checks and balances, between three EQUAL branches” is completely out of context of it’s meaning printed clearly word-for-word in the Constitution

            (lol) Prove it.
            HE DENIES CHECKS AND BALANCES, BETWEEN THREE CO-EQUAL BRANCHES. *IF* HE TRIES TO PROVE IT, HE’LL BE HUMILIATED (AGAIN).

            The same President who LIED so shamelessly about who launched the rioting and mass assaults in Charlottesville .. to defend his neo-nazi and white nationalist supporter

            Do YOU defend neo-nazis and white nationalists, along with Trump’s disgraceful lies?

            1. Prove it. — No problem…
              You say, “repeatedly suppresses the free press”….

              Amendment I – specifically is started with — “Congress shall make no law…” —– Did Trump become Congress and pass a law that abridged the freedom of the press???? I think not…

              1. You fail AGAIN!!!
                PROVE THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT ESTABLISH A BALANCE OF POWER, WITH CHECKS AND BALANCES, BETWEEN THREE CO-EQUAL BRANCHES.

                Amendment I – specifically is started with — “Congress shall make no law…” —– Did Trump become Congress and pass a law that abridged the freedom of the press???? I think not…

                HE CAN’T BECAUSE CONGRESS IS CO-EQUAL. (SMIRK)

                AND PASSING LAWS IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO SUPPRESS A FREE PRESS.

                *TRY* TO STAY ON YOUR OWN TOPIC.

                What’s completely funny is your use the term, “constitutional checks and balances, between three EQUAL branches” is completely out of context of it’s meaning printed clearly word-for-word in the Constitution.

                **PROVE IT**

  16. Obama Takes office; the U.S. Debt $10T
    Obama Leaves office; the U.S. Debt $20T

    After a full term, “The debt totals more than $23 trillion”, and — “Trump is the debt-king.”??!! lol…. I’d like to really see the [R] party get more aggressive about debt but hearing the Anti-Trumpster crowd point at Trumps $3T like it was worse than their own $10T is just a complete joke.

    1. Those Obama numbers are bullshit.
      And you blew Trump’s. We must compare 8 years vs 8 years. As I keep saying, THE CBO FORECAST FOR 2024.

      After a full term

      ***TRUMP HAS NOT HAD A FULL TERM!!!!

      On the economy, Obama’s final three vs Trump’s first three,
      a) Jobs: OBAMA more
      b) GDP growth: OBAMA more (GDP growth DECLINED in 2019)
      c) 8-YEAR DEBT: Trump as much in three years as Obama AFTER 8 … and Trump promised ANOTHER *unpaid* tax cut (long before the Covid-19 crisis)

      Trump’s fiscal and economic FAILURES, despite.
      Obama gifted him the longest recovery EVER for an incoming President.
      Yet, Obama inherited the second worst recession since 1945.

      Unemployment Rate .., THINK. The longer a recovery, the lower the unemployment rate (it keeps dropping, DUH) Trump ridiculed Obama’s unemployment numbers, which were indeed influenced by low Labor Participation … TRUMP HAS LOWER LABOR PARTICIPATION THAN THE BOTTOM OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION! WHY HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE STILL ABANDONED THE LABOR FORCE … IN THE 128TH MONTH OF A RECOVERY?
      OBAMA (Jan/2009) 65.7%
      TRUMP (Feb 2020) 63.4%
      ==============
      P.S. Trump was elected to PAY OFF THE FEDERAL DEBT IN 8 YEARS!
      NOT to have the worst debt of any President EVER.

      1. Obama End-Term 2013; the U.S. Debt $17T
        “….. causing the 2013 United States debt-ceiling crisis.. Members of the Republican Party in Congress opposed raising the debt ceiling, which had been routinely raised previously on a bipartisan basis without conditions.”

        1. NON-RESPONSIVE! COWARDLY DIVERSION!!!

          REPEAT
          1) We must compare 8 years vs 8 years. As I keep saying, THE CBO FORECAST FOR 2024.
          ***CAN YOU HEAR ME, NOW?

          2) You LIED about Obama’s debt.

          Obama 8-year Debt (trillions)
          19,573 – 10,025 = 9,548

          Start with 2008 actual
          End with 2016 actual

          Trump 8-year Debt
          28,020 – 19,573 = 8,447

          Start with 2016 actual
          End with 2024 CBO forecast

          **TRUMP HAS ADDED AS MUCH 8-YEAR DEBT IN THREE YEARS AS OBAMA ADDED AFTER EIGHT YEARS … AND OBAMA INHERITED A MAJOR RECESSION.

          AND PROMISED ANOTHER UNPAID TAX CUT, LONG BEFORE Covid-19

            ***30% MORE JOBS UNDER OBAMA

          2014 3.01 MILLION
          2015 2.73
          2016 2.31 = 8.05 million

          2017 2.15
          2018 2.30
          2019 1.74 = 6.19 million

          WHAT THEY INHERITED
          Obama — 2nd worst economy since WWII
          Trump — longest recovery EVER, for AN incoming President, FROM OBAMA

          ***Trump was a fiscal train wreck, even before he fucked up Covid-19. A GREATEST THREAT TO OUR ECONOMY EVER … NOW A NEEDLESSLY EXTREME THREAT TO OUR HEALTH,

          Behold the TRUMP New Deal!

          (I don’t expect a totally uninformed amateur to even know CBO has such a forecast. But to DENY it AFTER you’ve seen it exists .. is … SHAMEFULLY Trumpian)

          P.S. This is the longest recovery EVER. launched under Obama
          As long as jobs increase faster than labor force, unemployment will keep falling from THAT! (duh)

          Obama’s labor participation rate (Jan 2009) = 66.2%
          Trump’s labor participation (Feb) 63.2% = (4.5% LESS)

          Anything else?
          If so, PLEASE be honest. Or you will be ignored.
          My grace and patience have expired.

  17. It is inexcusable to run up the debt during a good economy.

    1. How about its Inexcusable for [WE] foundation gang-members to “mob” vote to thwart the law of the land on some Democratic power-trip that runs up my own credit card debt without my consensus on something entirely UN-Constitutional like Obamacare and AARA Stimulus packages.

      Then we won’t have to argue about the insignificant details of what defines or causes “a good vs bad economy” and which sex, color, wealth-class is to blame for it. We can just all stop trying to ‘re-found’ the U.S. and take pride in its founding being about Individual Justice and Liberty.

      1. WTF???
        How in HELL does that excuse the Trump GOP’s SHAMEFUL record on debt and the economy … when Obama gifted them the longest recovery EVER??

        WHY DOES THAT DAMN OBAMA HAVE A BETTER RECORD ON BOTH JOBS AND DEBT, STARTING FROM THE SECOND WORST ECONOMY SINCE WWII

        We can just all stop trying to ‘re-found’ the U.S. and take pride in its founding being about Individual Justice and Liberty.

        Trump can fuck up because Jefferson and the Founders were INFINITELY better than him .. and did NOT fail every actual business they started. (lol)

    2. It is inexcusable to run up the debt during a good economy.

      EVEN WORSE … Trump is the first President to EVER increase the deficit more than 40% … in one year … during a boom … after Obama gifted him the longest recovery EVER.

  18. how long until Reason morons claim pot cures this…it does everything

  19. Fuck you, Boehm. We want a toilet paper subsidy, and we want it NOW!

  20. The worst part is that most of these ’emergency measures’ will become permanent.

    1. Say hello to the Patriot Act 🙂 still breathing since 9/11.

  21. Wow. Look at these comments. We used to think the cult of personality around Obama was nauseating. These guys lactating over the orange con-man make the Hope & Change guys look almost sane. Leader-worship at its finest.

    Don’t you MAGA-hats have your own magazine? Does Boys Life not allow comments?

    1. ^^THIS!

    2. Whew – the stench of projection is almost too much to handle…
      – lactating over the orange con-man
      – Leader-worship at its finest
      – MAGA-hats

      Then try to point the finger as if its someone else’s “cult of personality” that’s the problem…

  22. Just realized. We ain’t even seen the big shoe drop yet. Larger companies are almost all self-insured re their employee health plan claims. Insurers are just the administrators.

    Over the next few weeks – and especially with the triage decisions favoring the young and healthy (ie not Medicare) – employer health plan costs are going to explode. At the same time that revenues disappear.

    Covid19 is the death of the employer based medical system. Anyone who wants something other than govt takeover has about two months before it will become inevitable.

    1. Interesting too – cuz Flu1918 was really the death of the ‘private charity hospital’ system. The aftermath of that was when municipal hospital construction grew like kudzu – and that muni system was actually the main sort of hospital healthcare when the various tax incentives/subsidies for employers began in WW2.

      A return to muni/state level systems – along the lines of VA (not Medicare) – is going to be the only alternative to a centralized fed behemoth.

      1. The private charity hospital system was not destroyed until LBJ’s Medicaid!!!

        NO, THE POOR DID NOT LACK MEDICAL CARE FOR NEARLY A HALF-CENTURY …. THIS IS AMERICA … NOT MOZAMBIQUE.

        1. The poor were the ones kicked out of those charity hospitals during the 1918Flu. Sent home to die (and infect their families). Turns out those donors didn’t want contagious people near them – esp poor. That is the reason muni/county hospitals expanded rapidly in the 20’s and 30’s. As a tax-paid rather than donor-paid system.

          1. Called out as a liar … change your story … again
            I WORKED AT A CHARITY HOSPITAL, IN THE LATE 50S.
            THEY EXISTED ALONG WITH MUNIS.

            NOW I GET IT. YOU ARE EASILY AMONG THE MOST BRAINWASHED PRECIOUS SNOWFLAKES ON EARTH,

            YOU NEVER HAVE A SOURCE. i ALWAYS DO.
            AND NO B.S.
            YOUR CLAIM; YOUR SOURCE.
            ***PUT UP OR SHUT UP***

          2. JFREE INSISTS THAT SICK … POOR … PEOPLE WERE THROWN OUT OF HOSPITALS … AND SENT HOME TO DIE … BY NUNS! YES! Scroll back.

            All hospitals did some level of charitable care. Most were religious. Only Catholic ones had “Charity” in their name, and they were almost 100% charitable. My family hospital was Lutheran, and they told me 25-30% of their care was charitable – not in their name BUT THEY SENT POOR PEOPLE HOME TO DIE????

            I’M AN ATHEIST AND WOULD NEVER SAY ANYTHING SO DEPLORABLE … The health of government CANNOT be a higher priority than the health of PEOPLE!

            ***The SICK truth about POLITICAL health care.
            (Dated 4/25/2008, prior to the Obamacare expansion of Medicaid)

            1 IN 4 UNINSURED ARE ELIGIBLE FOR MEDICAID BUT AREN’T ENROLLED

            FRIDAY, April 25 (HealthDay News) — One in four Americans — about 12 million people — who don’t have health coverage are eligible for Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) but aren’t enrolled, a new report shows.

            The results were released Friday by the National Institute for Health Care Management Foundation.

            WTF?
            Medicaid pays 25-30% less than even Medicare. So even fewer providers can afford to treat people for a little as $17 per visit,

            How can the same government make $50-80 TRILLION of UNPAID commitments to Medicare … but fund MediCAID so SHAMEFULLY? Seniors vote. Poor people do not.
            Political health care.

            Political health care means betting your life, literally, that politicians, faced with tight budgets, will ALWAYS increase your taxes, and NEVER cut your benefits. (stop laughing)

            That’s why 45% of Medicare is subsidized by income taxes — which the middle class barely pays — and 20% by PRIVATE INSURERS.
            Middle-class FICA taxes and premiums now roughly 1/3 of Medicare,

            And WHY left-wing puppets are as eagerly manipulated, on health care, as right-wing puppets … both unwitting tools of the power elites.

            *JFree wants to the poor to bet their lives on politicians, instead of NUNS!

            Libertarians would transition back to the private charities, foundations, fraternals and hospitals ..who provided universal TREATMENT for centuries … while Medicaid eligibles are THE MOST LIKELY TO DIE UNINSURED. (100% tax credits for donations to indigent health care, paid by transferring money from public health care. )

            Politicians or nuns? Nearly 80% of physicians STILL provide varying levels of charitable care.

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  24. AWESOME video shows Fox News hosts … side-by-side … before and after Trump’s YUGE flip-flop.
    https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1240131226268323842

    First ridiculing coronavirus as media hysteria to bring down the President … then flipping to a major crisis, some within a few days!!

    What does this say about Fox’s contempt for their viewers’ intelligence?

    How many viewers will again follow the robot-like mind control, to do a spinning Hannity pirouette? … also placing tribal politics above human life?

    Pollsters have just started reporting that Trump’s base is starting to fall away, after 2-months of continuing apocalyptic failures. How many times can Trump’s base stand by him … for shooting someone to death on Fifth Avenue … now that he’s placed their own family’s health and finances at risk? (And their supply of toilet paper)

    Much of his alt-right core is now ridiculing Trump in online forums, to defend their own denials. Is even Trump now manipulated by CNN, MSNBC, the NyTimes and WaPo? (gasp)

    I await the same video treatment of Trump. … which I could probably make myself (with Google search) … Trump NOW says he suspected it was a pandemic before anyone else did! Since he says he’s smarter than health professionals. (Far worse than his lies about Charlottesville, to defend rioting, mass assaults and death by his racist and neo-nazi supporters)

    You’ll see all these videos again .. A LOT.
    The first attack ad is in Part 2 … from a conservative Super-PAC.

    This now feels like it did, watching Nixon commit suicide.

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