Conspiracy Theories

Trump on QAnon Conspiracy Theorists: 'They Like Me Very Much, Which I Appreciate'

The president said he doesn't know much about the movement but he's heard its adherents "love our country."

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At a press conference today, Donald Trump was asked about the QAnon, a loose assortment of conspiracy theorists who think the president is waging a secret war against an international ring of Satan-worshipping Deep State pedophiles; the evil cabal purportedly includes various Hollywood celebrities, media figures, and Democratic Party leaders. Trump responded that he didn't know very much about the QAnon movement, but he was grateful for the support.

"They like me very much, which I appreciate," he said.

The president then downplayed QAnon's kookiness, wrongly portraying its adherents as merely concerned about crime in Democrat-run cities.

"These are people who don't like what's going on in places like Portland, and Chicago, and other cities, and states," said Trump. "I've heard these are people who love our country. I don't know anything about it other than, they do supposedly like me, and also would like to see problems in these areas go away."

Lest anyone claims that Trump's ignorance is a defense, the reporter who asked the question then explained that the essential element of the QAnon theory is the Satanic cannibal pedophile part—and that Trump is supposedly at the center of a covert effort to stop this great evil.

"Is that supposed to be a bad thing or a good thing?" Trump responded, prompting at least one laugh. "If I can help save the world from problems, I'm willing to put myself out there."

It would be trivially easy for Trump to distance himself from an insane conspiracy theory, just as it would be trivially easy for the GOP to shun Laura Loomer, the bigot who just got the party's nomination for a congressional seat in Florida. Instead, prominent Republicans—including Trump—have endorsed Loomer, and Trump is happy to collect the Q vote. They may be kooks, one imagines Republicans thinking, but at least they're our kooks.

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  1. The joke is on anybody and everybody who takes anything that originates on 4chan too seriously.

    To anybody who’s spent more than a two minutes seriously thinking about QAnon, LOL at you.

    1. What about the other way around? What do you think of endorsing Loomer without knowing anything about her QAnon beliefs?

      1. Anybody who takes QAnon seriously is making a fool of themselves, and everybody who condemns anybody for believing in QAnon is opening themselves up to legitimate ridicule for not getting the joke.

        Do you like fishsticks?

        If liking fishsticks makes you start swimming around like a gay fish, then the joke is on you–not on the people telling the joke.

        This is from 4chan.

        I repeat: This is from 4chan.

        If you don’t know not to take things from 4chan seriously, then the joke is on you. If 4chan memes makes you go crazy accusing other people of believing in a satanic child molesting cabal of elitists, then the joke is on you. For taking this seriously, people in the know are laughing–at you. And the fact that journalists are among those who are taking this seriously just makes it even more hilarious. They’re so stupid, they actually asked the president about it?!

        Did they ask him if he can count to potato, too?

        1. So, Loomer is taking QAnon seriously. Trump endorsed her. What is your opinion of his making that endorsement?

          1. How can you ask that question without taking QAnon seriously yourself?

            Did you hear that Brock Turner will be speaking at this year’s Republican National Convention to endorse President Trump–despite being convicted on three charges of felony sexual assault?

            https://news.knowyourmeme.com/news/brock-turner-is-not-speaking-at-the-rnc

            How do you feel about that, Mr. President?

            I feel like anybody, journalist or otherwise, who really believed that–well enough to expect the President to answer such a question–is making a fool of themselves.

            1. “ How can you ask that question without taking QAnon seriously yourself?”

              It’s taking the Presidency seriously, not taking QAnon seriously.

              1. If you weren’t taking QAnon seriously, then why did you ask about the president endorsing someone despite QAnon?

                1. What is your point, Ken? Is your point that Loomer is just kidding when she subscribes to this nonsense? Like every time Trump says something ridiculous or tyrannical, he is just kidding? Like postponing the election or drinking bleach? Haha, just kidding? Like draining the swamp or cutting spending or reducing foreign interventionism? Haha, just kidding?

                  Do you see the idiocy behind this strategy? If you get to say the people in power, or seeking power, are just kidding when they say ridiculous or evil shit, then you can’t claim they are not kidding when they promise not to do evil or ridiculous shit.

                  1. His point is that you’re an unintelligent karen, eunuch

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                    2. Ah, the vaunted intelligence, civility, and poise of the average Reason comments section poster

                  2. Did you know that Jussie Smollett was beaten for being black and gay by evil men wearing MAGA hats? The MAGA hat was such an important part of framing that lie.

                    Go do a google search for “attack MAGA hat”, and look at all the progressives who’ve gone berserk over people wearing MAGA hats.

                    “Q” is like the MAGA hat of 2020. Both provoke apoplectic reactions in progressives–and that is the primary point.

                    Watching journalists and others take QAnon seriously and treat this like the crazy clown epidemic of 2016–only even more real and serious this time–makes them and everyone who take them seriously look hilariously stupid.

                    Did I mention that this started on 4chan?

                    The reason kids in the 1980s scribbled pentagrams and upside down crosses everywhere wasn’t because there was a massive underground satanist movement sweeping through our junior highs. They scribbled them everywhere because it made their parents crazy.

                    That is “Q”.

                    When you see people turning out to vote for people because of “Q”, there are probably a couple of forces at work. One of them is that when the press goes nuts against somebody, it makes a lot of people want to support that person just for that reason. The second force is the same one that made people vote for “Boaty McBoatface”. They do it because watching people in authority and in the press go apoplectic over “Boaty McBoatface” is hilarious.

                    If you’re taking QAnon seriously, then the joke is on you.

                    1. Seems like whether to take it seriously depends on whether its adherents take it seriously (say, enough to commit murder), or the president takes it seriously (because it flatters him). Keep in mind it’s a millenarian cult.

                      I know I’m not especially convinced that it’s all a big funny troll, mostly because this hardly seems the time for such things.

                    2. Oh really Ken? Then why did Edgar Maddison Welch drive to a pizza place in D.C. with a rifle and do what he did?

                      side note: why did he only get 4 years?

                    3. jomo,

                      Are you trying to show that nutjobs take these jokes seriously?

                      Because that’s what I’m saying, too.

                      You’re not trying to say what that guy did at the pizza place was reasonable, are you? It’s nutty to take a joke so seriously.

                2. I’ll try putting it a different way. The President of the United States endorsed a candidate who is so unserious that SHE takes QAnon seriously. What is your opinion of his making an endorsement of a non-serious candidate?

                  1. Frogs are racist dipshit.

          2. So, Loomer is taking QAnon seriously.

            So?

            Jeffrey Epstein ran a massive grooming operation, he ran flights to Lolita Island. Flights that many of the powerful–largely of the left, rode with gusto.

            That’s real. That happened.

            There are STILL grooming gangs operating in the UK. They are STILL protected because outing them, arresting them is seen as racist.

            That happened. That’s real.

            So, you’ve got multiple instances of gangs grooming–and we say grooming, but it’s really raping and sexually abusing. All REALLY happening.

            And the Democratic nominee for the presidency is a man who has sniffed at and tried to kiss and touch underage girls WHILE THE CAMERAS WERE ROLLING.

            And you think people are crazy for not dismissing Qanon out of hand?

            1. “And you think people are crazy for not dismissing QAnon out of hand?”

              Some are, but mostly I think they are stupid. The QAnon crowd is surprisingly large for such an obvious fraud. The ease with which these people can be led to believe in fairy tales suggests they should be treated by the law as if they were children and stripped of their voting rights.

            2. Strawman. There’s a world of difference between dismissing something out of hand and reading and believing it for four years. About five minutes of reading and thinking is enough to realize it’s a nutty theory with no supporting evidence.

            3. Azathoth!!, well put. I’ll add that -everybody- uses “grooming” rather than “rape” for the left’s protected classes, even during the peak of the “Me-too” witchhunt… even right-leaning media. That’s one of our problems. The left frames the issues the way they want (like the reversal of left-red and right-blue), and the other side meekly follows suit.

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    3. This matters because of people like Edgar Maddison Welch and the actions they commit. JesseAZ asks for cites, like he never heard of this guy. Peopl wonder why it might be bad to elect people that believe in QAnon bullshit. People wonder why it might be bad to have POTUS pimping this shit.

      Edgar Maddison Welch is a great example of why this matters.

    4. It’s like Hillary’s firm belief in UFOs is what made her unfit for the Presidency.

      Could you imagine, if she were President and some UFO nut managed to stumble their way on to a ballot somewhere and someone said, “Hey, Mrs. President there’s a rumor that you’re a UFO nut too, what are your thoughts on the celeb candidate who’s also a nut?”

      I’d hope to God Hillary would have the grace and good humor to say “Well, they like me and they like America, I don’t know much else about it.” but something tells me we’d get another ‘sniper fire’ anecdote.

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  2. We should care about this why now?

    1. Because the President of the United States endorsed a candidate with well-known QAnon beliefs.

      1. Who was that ‘preacher man’ whose church Obama attended? The guy who swore that whites were the scourge of the earth?
        And then Obama arm-waved it off, because, uh, well, gee, he means well!

        1. I suppose that was your answer because you think I’m a liberal. I’m not. I admit I had forgotten about that Obama incident, but it was offensive.

          Bringing it up didn’t refute my reply to renad, since Obama wasn’t the topic.

          1. But Obama did not wave it off. He gave a serious speech about the subject of race and broke ties to Rev. Wright. President Trump has done none of this with Q-Anon, he has welcomed their support. So the example is not equivalent and WK’s original point stands.

            1. After 20 years of either finding it so normal as to be unnoticed or being completely unphased by such casual racism the one politically expedient speech was surely the only genuine thing there.

              I’d prefer the mocking honesty of not taking this seriously over that anyday.

              1. You assholes could have left the man alone about some cherry picked sermons from the church he chose to worship at, but that would require you guys not being absolute scum.

            2. WK’s only point is on top of his fat head.

              Expecting the president to decry Q-Anon is exactly like expecting the president to decry flat-earth theory. And if you think whats-her-fuck is not just trolling progs, well, then you are probably the prog getting trolled.

              1. Does the FBI consider flat earthers a potential terrorist organization?

                1. Probably.

                  1. And if they don’t, you could phone them up with the details about how a flat earther was going to bomb the Boston Marathon or shoot up an Orlando nightclub and, after it happened, they’d look into it.

        2. Reaching into your whataboutism bag is basically an admission of defeat. It means you concede the accusation is true.

      2. Now explain why qnon is worse than the USPS conspiracy, the pee tape conspiracy, various anti Semitic global cabal conspiracies, etc endorsed by various candidates on the left. You can do it Jeff.

        1. I’ll let Jeff answer if he wants to, since you asked him. Kind of odd to ask him, though, since you are replying to my comment.

          So, on another of today’s threads I made you an offer. I will act completely civil and respectful toward you (and no spoofing handles — I don’t do that anymore, anyway), if you do the same for me. Same offer goes to anybody else. Deal?

          1. Why would anyone beleive you after you admit dishonesty?

            You’re a scorpion.

            1. JesseAz could answer for himself.

              1. So can you but you didn’t.

                1. I didn’t answer for JesseAz? I’m not him.

                  1. Haha now you’re being a pedantic asshole, just like Jeff. Thanks for admitting you’re Jeff!

            2. But the answer to your question is that JesseAz and others could gloat about it if I don’t keep my end of the bargain.

              1. Since you change handles that’s not anything at all.

                1. Are you a sock puppet for JesseAz. Why do you keep answering for him.

                  1. The “OK” sign is racist you squawking bird.

                  2. Listen youre obviously not very smart but you appear to be confused so I’ll help, you answered MY questuon, not Jesse’s.

                    So the real question is why are you so desperate to change the subject that you just lost track of what you were replying to.

          2. Deal?

            How about we all ignore you and you go find a different bridge to troll under? Otherwise you rightfully get scorn and derision for your constant trolling.

            ‘Cause you’re a troll.

            You should change your handle to Trolly McTrollface.

        2. Hey look, more whataboutism. Another admission of defeat from Jesse.

        3. Because none of them led to a guy driving to a pizza place with a rifle like Edgar Maddison Welch.

          Keep pretending you never heard about that though.

          1. No, just a softball field.

    2. You’re not absolutely terrified of the bogeyman?

  3. Is that supposed to be a bad thing or a good thing?” Trump responded, prompting at least one laugh. “If I can help save the world from problems, I’m willing to put myself out there.”

    How is that not a perfectly cromulent response to an unexpected question? Humorous, and laughing at the conspiracy theory without insulting the people who believe it? Seems that was pretty good thinking on the feet. But I haven’t watched it.

    1. He’s often good on his feet and funny to boot.

      1. Yes, and his reasoning is sound: He needs votes, it is an election.

      2. He’s the president. He won’t answer questions about whether he endorses a cult or whether he will cancel the election. But he’s such a cut-up haha and so handsome too.

        1. JFC, he was speaking off the cuff at an out of the blue question about something he knows nothing about. So how do you conclude that he endorses these Q-whatever people?

  4. Movement? Yes like all 4chan pranks it moves a certain distance then stops.

    Sadly you were taken in by it.

    1. Meanwhile, nobody at Reason seems to take much interest in actual violence, looting, rioting, robbery, attempted murder, and actual murder at the hands of BLM/antifa terrorists. Nothing to report except one sad person you throw up twice a week to tell us it’s copacetic?

      No you would rather focus on an internet prank that has taken in a few rubes. I have to wonder since the democrat run state media like CNN and others have ignored real devastation in our cities, is Reason thinking they will become nationally acceptable to the oligarchs (other than Koch) or will they be relegated to the dustbin of third party rags. Is libertarianism/Reason no better than the communist party/Daily Worker? I think we know the answer.

      1. Because Antifa exists, no criticism of QAnon is valid.

        Got it.

        1. Apparently, it is not news that the President of the United States is endorsing a nut-job conspiracy theorist.

          1. But enough about Obama and Farrakhan.

              1. And I’ll point out Jeff that your comment above is stupid and irrelevant since in the comment I replied to you were clearly attempting to make it seem as though the behavior I pointed out Obama was doing had not occurred before Trump so please stop trying to pretend your comment was relevant or mattered when the reality is you’re an idiot.

                it is not news that the President of the United States is endorsing a nut-job conspiracy theorist.”

                Right there. Now fuck off Jeff.

                1. That you call me Jeff signals you are not interested in real discussion.

                  1. No it signals that you’re obviously Jeff.

                    But you’re admittedly dishonest so no Jeff I really don’t see the point of anything other than refuting you.

                  2. that you ignore the bold signals that you’re stung, and being called jeff is just your excuse to flee the uncomfortable truth

          2. Now do USPS rigging an election.

            1. Which side’s narrative? The conservative narrative that the USPS is in the hands of liberals and will sabotage the election by losing likely Republican voters’ ballots? Or the liberal narrative that Trump and the Republicans are trying to sabotage the USPS, so that scaled-up mail-in voting will be a big failure?

              Meanwhile, all I said on the subject that it was scummy when Trump went on TV and came right out and said he doesn’t care about making sure the USPS does a good job of handling mail-in voting.

        2. Not what he said at all actually. He called out the focus on one and not the other dummy.

        3. QAnon is not in the streets pulling people out of cars and beating them out.

          I don’t care to distinguish between BLM or Antifa anymore. And if you’re a peaceful protestor still sticking around when those violent criminals start their mayhem, you’re part of the problem.

          1. True, but a QAnon/Pizzagate believer did shoot up a pizza parlor in Washington, D.C.

            1. Oh well a single crazy person is the same as days of rioting in multiple cities that’s not a foolish thing to say at all.

              1. Good thing, then, I didn’t make that equivalence in what I said.

      2. Another guy that has nothing but whataboutism.

        1. Which is funny because the some of the same people that regularly resort to whataboutism are dead set against what they call bothsidesism. But whataboutism is a form of bothsidesism.

          Anyway, I’m a proud bothsidesist. A pox on the house of both major political parties!

  5. Can we do the post office removing mailboxes conspiracy now? Or the fact that a second DoJ employee has pleaded guilty to falsifying evidence to obtain warrants in the Russia gate conspiracy?

    1. Dear god- guy basically slobs Putin’s knob and you still defend him. How pathetic.

      1. Not defending him, but you are defending someone who broke the law and falsified information in an investigation they even admitted they knew was bullshit almost from the start. I can’t stand Trump but I hate bureaucrats who abuse their power and attempt to influence an election through a made up investigation and falsified evidence to obtain illegal wiretaps. Or are you excusing breaking the law and circumventing the Constitiuton because it was done by your tribe?
        Fuck off with that NKVD shit. I didn’t vote for Trump and am not this time either. But that is to hard for your simple minded to understand that rather I like the man or not, that doesn’t mean I support unlawful and unconstitutional wire taps. Nor do I support the misinformation that was the removing mailboxes conspiracy bullshit. Bullshit is bullshit and you seem to spew a lot of it.

        1. Good man! Like Dershowitz, a life long liberal, being vilified because he dared opine that the rule of law applied to even Orange Man Bad.
          Hell, back in the day true liberals (unlike these pathetic, generic, COSFAB socialist goonsquads wannabes today) used to defend the civil rights of the KKK!

          1. He also advocates for mandatory vaccines.

          2. He is mostly a civil libertarian on legal issues. He will defend anyone on that basis. He is also known as an expert in constitutional law.

            So I don’t think he can be classified as a liberal or conservative very easily. His views may go either way.

          3. He’s also accused of fucking children.

            1. So you want to dis him because of an unfounded allegation?

              1. First-person testimony isn’t unfounded.

                1. Testimony? Show me testimony.

                2. C’mon Tony.

                  You went from accusation to testimony pretty quick. Slow down. Even testimony does not prove anything but at least the accused has a chance at defense.

                  I saw Robbie fucking a goat yesterday. Robbie the goat fucker.

        2. bureaucrats who abuse their power and attempt to influence an election through a made up investigation and falsified evidence to obtain illegal wiretaps.

          You really believe that?

          1. Why not, it’s reality.

            Oh right your feelz.

          2. Since two have pleaded guilty to exactly that, the question is why do you still deny it?

            1. Clinesmith pled guilty to adding four words in an email that was used to support a renewal of the wiretap application. The words he added claimed that Page was not a CIA source. And it is true that Page wasn’t a CIA source *at the time*, but as the theory goes, if the FISA judges had known that Page had been a source in the past, they might have made a different decision. Okay, fair enough. This adulteration of the email didn’t impact the material basis of the warrant application itself though.

              I’m not aware of the other one though.

              1. A DoJ lawyer pleaded guilty last week to falsifying records and a FBI agent pleaded guilty to falsifying records today. See you don’t even know what I am talking about.

                1. Okay, I misread the story it was clinesmith today. Although his tampering was to add a word that completely changed the meaning of the sentence. And as he was an informant, who was reporting his contacts to the FBI, the change drastically changed the warrant application. He was basically doing what the law requires but Clinesmith changed the email to make it appear he was breaking the law, that is a pretty big fucking change.

              2. “…Clinesmith pled guilty to adding four words in an email that was used to support a renewal of the wiretap application…”

                Yeah, and the four words were:
                “he’s guilty as hell”

                I used to think you’re clever; now I see that you’re a fucking ignoramus.
                Gee, he only changed four words! Did you pick that off of Vox, or did some equally brain-dead piece of lefty shit send that to you?

              3. Jeff murders and eats kids. Only four words are lies. What’s the big deal?

                It’s fun to watch you squirm in your dishonest filth.

                1. Adulterating the email was wrong. It was wrong to add those four words to the email. I said that all along. That is not the same though as SEE SEE? THIS PROVES THE ENTIRE INVESTIGATION WAS BULLSHIT FROM THE START. Do you get the difference here, Asshole RMac?

                  1. No that’s exactly what it proves unless you’re a dem sucking piece of trash.

                  2. Nah, you got properly called out on this, Jeffy. It is completely irrelevant if it was one word or every word that was altered. The warrant was falsified. You keep writing ‘added four words’ for no logical reason other than that it minimizes the seriousness of what was actually done.

                    Let me show you:

                    Jeffy was observed in his mother’s basement fondling himself and young boys, illegally.

                    I only added four words, how much harm could that do?

                    1. You all are the ones who are obsessing about the four words thing. I noted that he added four words. I didn’t say “but it was only four words therefore no big deal”. That was YOUR embellishment, not mine. YOU are stuffing words into my mouth because you hate me more than you value searching for the truth.

                    2. I search for truth every day. You, on the other hand, are so full of shit, I couldn’t possibly stuff anything else in your mouth, nor would I want to.

                      Clinesmith pled guilty to adding four words in an email that was used to support a renewal of the wiretap application.

                      Where you wrote ‘added four words in an email’, it is, in and of itself, an embellishment, because ‘falsified an email’ is shorter and much more accurate. By writing ‘added four words’ instead of falsified, you completely remove the crime that he committed from your description of the crime he committed. My contention is backed up by your own words when you wrote:

                      This adulteration of the email didn’t impact the material basis of the warrant application itself though.

                      which others have demonstrated is a premise unsupported by the evidence and the fact that he pleaded guilty.

                      So, you either used the wrong words and poor phrasing in what you wrote which makes you ignorant, or you deliberately obfuscated the truth, which makes you a partisan asshole. Which is it?

              4. “ Clinesmith pled guilty to adding four words in an email that was used to support a renewal of the wiretap application. The words he added claimed that Page was not a CIA source. And it is true that Page wasn’t a CIA source *at the time*, but as the theory goes, if the FISA judges had known that Page had been a source in the past, they might have made a different decision. Okay, fair enough. This adulteration of the email didn’t impact the material basis of the warrant application itself though.”

                Of course it was a material misstatement. Clinesmith even admitted that it was. If Page was working for the CIA, then he very likely wasn’t working for the Russians, but against them. That makes it material.

                Most of the lying though in the FISA applications was lying by omission, instead of by commission. And Clinesmith had a part of that too, since he had some responsibility for the Woods files filed with the applications. Part of the lying by omission was that the FBI failed to mention to the FISC that Page had been working with the FBI for three years up through March of 2016 to convict Russian gangsters. Which is to say that, sure, he was working with Russians at the time. He was reporting to the CIA and testifying for the FBI against them. That doesn’t make him a Russian spy, but rather a patriot. Which is why it was material – because It made the allegations of being a Russian asset less likely.

                The other fairly blatant falsehood in the FISA applications was that Maltese academic Joseph Misfyp was a Russian asset. He was Western Intelligence, who was most closely tied to the British (shown in 2016 photos talking to British PMs Teresa May and Boris Johnson). He taught western spies at the Link Institute in Rome, including people from the CIA and FBI. This known falsehood was apparently perpetuated in the Mueller Report (known because FBI National Security Branch people were very likely the ones attending Link university, and its people (CD) were filing the FISA warrants).

            2. So it’s rather weaksauce to take this one episode, of an agent adding four words to an email, as some proof that it was “bullshit from the start” and it was a “made-up investigation”.

              1. Two have pleaded guilty. And they knew within a week that there was nothing, by their own notes, to the investigation but kept it going and falsified records. But keep defending bad cops. Do you have any principles?

                1. Two have pleaded guilty. And they knew within a week that there was nothing, by their own notes, to the investigation but kept it going and falsified records.

                  And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. The DOJ leveraged Flynn’s son against him and this scum sat on their hands. Mum until the evidence of their misdeeds was laid at their feet.

              2. But what if you really, really want it to be a complete bullshit investigation.

                1. Then you got what you wanted.

                  Thanks FBI!

                2. Fuck off Jeff

                3. Why don’t you go clone some more names and blame Tulpa for your actions you pathetic cunt.

              3. It’s weak sauce to claim it was just four letters when the letters changed him from an informant who was cooperating, and therefore not breaking the law, into making it appear he was breaking the law. That is a pretty big fucking change.

              4. So you’re ignoring the whole IG report regarding blatant problems with FISA. You’re ignoring the collapsing Steele dossier as the predicate for saying, even per the congressional report. You are denying comeys and other fbi agent testimony about using meetings with trump to find information. You’re denying the blatant prosecutor’s abuse about Flynn with all the declassified documents.

                And you still claim you’re not a leftist.

                Seems legit.

              5. “…of an agent adding four words…”

                I used to think you’re clever; now I see that you’re a fucking ignoramus.

                1. That is what he literally did.

                  1. carry that water

              6. The four words were material, because they removed the admission by the CIA that he reported to them on the Russians. If he was reporting to the CIA all along then he very likely wasn’t working for them, but against them.

                The other critical intentional misstatement in the FISA warrant applications was that Joseph Misfyp was a Russian asset. Far from it. He was long therm western intelligence, who taught western spies, including apparently from the FBI, at the Link Institute in Rome. If he was Western, and not Russian, intelligence, then the entire story of him telling Papadopoulis about the Russians having Clinton’s missing emails, and that they were willing to give them to the Trump campaign, and then Papadopoulis telling Alexander Downer (which was the predicate for opening Crossfire Hurricane) becomes a fairly typical intelligence operation, with Misfyp setting the bait on the hook, and Downer reeling him in. It should be noted that there are photos (thanks to the reviled QAnons) of the two together, along with others of each of them with Stephen Halper, who at the time was on a lucrative contract to an obscure US intelligence agency. (Again, thanks to QAnons).

                And what is left? With Carter Page working with both the CIA and FBI against the Russians, Joseph Misfyp working with Alexander Downer to setup George Papadopoulis, and Gen Flynn reporting everything he did to the DIA, that he used to run, what is really left besides a lot of smoke, mirrors, and inferences?

          3. “You really believe that?”

            “Ex-FBI lawyer Clinesmith pleads guilty to falsifying email in Russia probe in Durham’s first case”
            […]
            “WASHINGTON – Former FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith pleaded guilty Wednesday to falsifying an email used to support the surveillance of President Donald Trump’s former campaign aide Carter Page.
            The case against Clinesmith is the first to be brought by federal prosecutor John Durham, appointed last year by Attorney General William Barr to review the origins of the FBI’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election…”
            https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/19/ex-fbi-lawyer-kevin-clinesmith-court-1st-durham-case-russia/3393941001/

            Are you REALLY that fucking stooooooooooooooopid?

            1. He is. But he’s also very dishonest. So is he being dumb or dishonest? Sometimes it’s hard to tell.

              But in the end, it doesn’t matter. it’s fun to watch Neutral Jeffy, The Individualist, defend government attorneys lying so they can spy on a US citizen because Orange Man Bad! Because only lying for four words is important.

              1. I’m not defending government lawyers lying. You are a lying ass.

                1. yes you are

                  chemjeff radical individualist
                  August.20.2020 at 9:06 am
                  That is what he literally did

        3. bureaucrats who abuse their power and attempt to influence an election through a made up investigation and falsified evidence to obtain illegal wiretaps.

          I think you’ve fallen for the right-wing spin on things. Carter Page was not a saint. He did have sketchy ties to Russia. There was absolutely good reason to be concerned when Page was with the Trump campaign. The FBI were looking at Page since 2014, way before Trump. That said, they relied too heavily on the very questionable Steele dossier, they kept the investigation going too long when it was obvious there was no smoking gun, and yes some of them actually lied to the FISA court to get the warrants *renewed* (not for the original warrant), and that was completely wrong. But that is a far cry from “a made up investigation”.

          1. Please continue to shill for corrupt police forces.

            1. Please continue to shill for corrupt police forces. e8umntbkie8umntbkik

            2. Would these be the same “corrupt police forces” which John Durham is a part of, conducting these investigations into people like Clinesmith?

              1. You tell me you’re the one shilling.

          2. I know when I give the benefit if the doubt, it’s to the FBI after they already admitted corruption.

            1. It’s not “benefit of the doubt”, it’s using accurate language to describe what transpired. The investigation had a legitimate basis but went off the rails later on. I don’t think anyone has ever shown convincing proof that the investigation was completely illegitimate from the start and initiated *only* as a means to try to stop Trump.

              1. Sure man you call it whatever you need to.

              2. You are trying to hold a nuanced, dispassionate view of the whole matter. That makes you a liberal commie.

                1. I thought it made me an Antifa Marxist.

                  1. You admit they made up facts but then try to say the investigation wasn’t made up, you’re not antifa you’re an idiot.

                    1. He is an idiot, but he’s also very dishonest. Which one is he being here? Hard to tell, but it doesn’t matter. He’s an individualist defending an FBI lawyer lying, but only for four words!, so that the government could spy on someone connected to the Bad Orange Man!

                      His entire bullshit persona is destroyed. Carter Page isn’t enough of an individual for THIS individualist. All animals are equal, but some are more equal, ain’t that right Lying Jeffy?

                    2. No you’re right, let’s take your approach. Yes a lawyer admitting to altering an email by adding four words. Therefore TRUMP WAS RIGHT IT WAS ALL A HOAX THE DEMOCRATS PLOTTED A COUP IT WAS TREASON SEND HILLARY AND OBAMA TO JAIL. Is that about right? I think that’s called “jumping to conclusions”.

                      Or, MAYBE, we could look at the actual substance of what transpired. Do you want to do that? Or do you want to rush immediately to SEND THE TRAITORS TO JAIL?

                      Who is being the dishonest one here – the one who uses correct language to describe what happened without leaping to conclusions, or the one who uses the opportunity to bash and belittle someone he doesn’t like here by calling him names?

                      Nowhere did I defend any FBI lawyer lying. That is YOU lying about me. Own up to your own mendacity for once.

                      Carter Page deserves to be treated as the individual that he ACTUALLY IS, not what he is imagined to be. That includes BOTH the people who imagine that he was some KGB agent, AND the people who imagine that he was some innocent saint.

                2. Really? You’re actually pulling a Tulpa and using your sock to agree with you?

                  1. He has been doing it all day. He also blamed Tulpa for him cloning names and being mean. He has no self agency apparently.

                    1. Look at the way he parrots long debunked talking points and tell me you don’t also question his agency. Maybe all his trolling is some kind of cry for help

                3. Nuanced dispassionate view my ass. He carries the Democrats water in every single issue that comes up. He even stated he prefers leftist principles to the right and he identifies more with leftist. By his own words.

                  1. he also believes in an expanded welfare state, mostly as he is on disability for being obese. He also threatens government action if you don’t lower his risk of dying.

                    1. More fantasies pulled out of your ass. You have certainly taken to heart the right-wing strategy of “the narrative matters more than the truth”. Lies presented as bald assertions presented by a trusted tribalist carry more weight than truthful rebuttals presented by an “enemy”. I suppose tomorrow your talking point will be “did you hear that chemjeff supports gun control?” And then next week it will be “LOL you can’t believe anything chemjeff says, he supports Medicare for All for heaven’s sake!” And your co-tribalists will believe you and disbelieve anything to the contrary. It is would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.

              3. Lol. And you wonder why nobody takes you seriously. Schiff even doesn’t spin it as well as you.

              4. I’m sorry but if the nation’s law enforcement and intelligence agencies, operating under the direct authority of the President, are going to investigate the President’s political opponents then they’d better make sure all of their t’s are crossed and all of their i’s are dotted.

                At the very best, they were guilty of bullshit sloppiness. And you and the media are treating it like the guy at McDonald’s forgot your order of french fries.

                Actually, you’d probably call McDonald’s to complain about the fries.

          3. They knew there was nothing to the investigation within a week of starting it but kept it going. I stand by my assertion. Also, who cares what Page’s history was, because the Constitiuton protects everyone or no one. As for your stupid crack about right wing news, that is just your way of denying any truth but that which supports your bias. I read sources from all ends of the spectrum, because I am not a delusional tribalist leftist who thinks he’s a Libertarian, like you. I am not a true Libertarian either, but lean that way. The best way to describe me is as a Constitutional Federalist with Libertarian leanings.


            1. They knew there was nothing to the investigation within a week of starting it but kept it going.

              Really? Only one week? How do you know that?

              And look, you’re repeating the right-wing narrative of this entire episode whether you acknowledge it or not. That it was all a “witch hunt” and a “hoax”. The FBI did not invent Page’s sketchy associations with Russia. The FBI did not force Trump to hire Page for his campaign.

              1. It was in their case notes that we declassified like two months ago.

                1. Do you have a link?

                  1. If I linked to them, I’m sure you’ll just dismiss them as right wing talking points, because they were about the only ones who reported on it. Because you are nothing if not predictable. You’ll deny the source so you don’t have to face the truth. I’ve seen you do it often. Hell, you even did it upstream when you implied I got all my news from right wing sites. Why bother.

                    1. If your Fox News link goes to the actual case notes, then no, those wouldn’t be right-wing talking points.

                    2. Don’t bother with Jeff. I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt again a week or two back, gave him links, then he asked for citations for the same topic tbe same day. He is pathetic.

                    3. “those wouldn’t be right-wing talking points.”

                      That however is still a pathetic ad hominem

                    4. Who said it was from Fox News, which I don’t even watch. I don’t watch any cable news. And yes I check their site and CNNs site and even occasionally MSNBC. I also read Reason and several others. But you are fixated on Fox News. Because that is the level of your critical thinking skills.

                  2. Here Lying Jeffy is being more dumb than dishonest. But only by a tiny bit, I think.

              2. So you condemn him to lose Constitutional protections because he had associates you didn’t like. Don’t you defend Antifa and BLM because you supposedly don’t believe in guilt by association, except obviously when you do.b

                1. Are we going to discuss what “is”, or what “ought to be”? As things stand now, there are limitations on what foreign agents are allowed to do in this country. That is what “is”. If you want to argue that agents of foreign powers ought to be able to do whatever they want, basically legalize espionage, then go ahead and make that case.

                  1. He was an informant who was working with the CIA. He was doing what he was directed by the CIA to do, and was not breaking any laws. Keep digging.

                    1. Carter Page’s association with the CIA ended in 2013.

                      He was doing what he was directed by the CIA to do, and was not breaking any laws.

                      How do you know this?

                    2. “Carter Page’s association with the CIA ended in 2013.”

                      There’s no way you could possibly know that

          4. chemjeff radical individualist
            August.19.2020 at 10:15 pm

            I used to think you’re clever; now I see that you’re a fucking ignoramus.

          5. Yes. Carter Page had ties to the Russians. BFD. Except that he was reporting on the Russians to the CIA, and testifying against them for the FBI, at least as late as March of 2016, only 7 months before the first FISA warrant was filed on him (that fact cleverly ignored in the FISA warrant applications).

          6. “Carter Page was not a saint. He did have sketchy ties to Russia.”

            Because the CIA asked him to.

            “There was absolutely good reason to be concerned when Page was with the Trump campaign.”

            No, there really wasn’t. If there was, doctoring evidence would not have been required.

            “The FBI were looking at Page since 2014, way before Trump.”

            No doubt the Obama FBI was a corrupt shit house.

            “But that is a far cry from “a made up investigation”.”

            Literally no difference. And they lied in the original warrant also.

      2. We’re circling the drain at this point. At least with Trump I get to see self righteous assholes like you get triggered by his incessant trolling.

        QAnon is a prank made for the benefit of people like you, and yet you all still get suckered in by stuff like this time and time again. It’s a great illustration of why Trump uses the tactics he does. The left can’t help itself, they always take the bait. It’s been fun and ill be sorry to see the end of it.

        1. If QAnon is just a prank, then there’s a whole lot of people who haven’t gotten the joke.

          https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/qanon-gop/

          1. The “OK” sign being “racist” was a prank also. And, unlike QAnon, it is taken dead seriously by a wide array of idiots.

    2. More whataboutism. Can nobody stay on topic?

  6. Only people dumber than Trump are his followers and everyone else trying to dismiss this. They’d do humanity a favor by sailing off to an island so as not to inflict their stupidity upon everyone else.

    1. Dismiss what exactly? I am not voting for Trump and campaigned for Johnson in 2016, but I don’t see what the big deal is here. He didn’t know what the movement was and then made a fucking joke about the movement. Yeah, I can see why your panties are in a twist because you lack any critical thinking skills and everything is about partisanship, black and white tribalism (not meaning race either, before you start with the bullshit about racism).

      1. “He didn’t know what the movement was and then made a fucking joke about the movement.”

        There’s a third part to the story. He has endorsed Loomer. Is it not newsworthy that the President of the United States is endorsing a conspiracy theorist nut job?

        1. “There’s a third part to the story. He has endorsed Loomer. Is it not newsworthy that the President of the United States is endorsing a conspiracy theorist nut job?

          Enough about Obo!

        2. I am not commenting about Looked. Who has about as much chance of winning as I do of winning the lotto without buying a ticket. Fuck her and Trump, happy now. I am talking only about this stupid story and take.

          1. Yes, I am.
            Thank you.

          2. I was specifically addressing your saying “I don’t see what the big deal is here.” You may not be talking about Trump’s endorsement, but it so what the blog post we are discussing was about.

      2. You campaigned for Johnson? Did you vote for him?

    2. The dumb part if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt was saying anything at all especially making positive comments about it. If he didn’t really know that was all he had to say.

      But we are used to this with Trump. He goes off on topics he really knows nothing about.

  7. I’ve spent a lot of time in various corners of the internet and I see little advocacy for QAnon. I see far more hysteria about it, demonizing and condemning it. I’ve also been falsely accused of supporting it. And now I see threats of social media banning it. In other words, it’s mostly a pretext by dems to falsely associate people with it to get them censored and banned. For the sake of free speech, I don’t think it helps for Trump to condemn it.

    1. It’s like your uncle who knows who was on the Grady knoll and that the moon landing was faked because he has a friend, whose cousins boyfriend’s brother was a grip on the set. You just nod your head and move on. It is as stupid as birthers, as stupid as the idiots posting pictures of mailboxes are a recycling center that have been there for half a decade as proof Trump is closing the USPS so people can’t vote (or worse Jamie Lee Curtis tweeting a picture of a broke down USPS mail carrier on a flat bed and accusing Trump of stealing votes).

      1. Come on, man. Everybody knows that vehicles owned by the post office never break.
        Do you remember, was it mid to late 80’s?, when the post office got a new fleet? They were selling all their old trucks for $49! A postal truck backed into some stuff sticking out of my truck a few years ago, and the guy was freaked- thought he’d be fired and whatnot. I looked at it, and fixed it. The new fleet is even more snap together lights in an aluminum can the the old ones were.
        $49 in 1987 for a fleet maintained vehicle that seldom went over 5MPH!

    2. “For the sake of free speech, I don’t think it helps for Trump to condemn it.”

      Maybe so, but why is he actively endorsing a candidate with prominent QAnon beliefs?

      1. Tribalism, the same reason Biden hasn’t condemned AOC or any of the other nutcases in his party. It is what it is.

        1. I’ll buy that.

        2. AOC is a young smart woman and is miles from Loomer. AOC doesn’t spout racism or peddle in conspiracy. This is a false equivalency. Try again.

          1. AOC doesn’t spout racism or peddle in conspiracy

            Troll.

            BLM. 10 years to save the planet.

            Your bridge is showing its age, Hihn.

  8. Based on the responses so far to this article, and the Laura Loomer, I’d like to propose the Marxist Rule for the Reason comment forums:

    If there exists any Marxist anywhere, then no criticism of Republicans is valid.

    Proof:
    Assume a Marxist exists.
    That Marxist is, by definition, worse than any Republican.
    Therefore, criticizing a Republican is implicitly overlooking the far worse evil that the Marxist represents.
    Therefore, until no Marxists exist anywhere, no Republicans may be criticized.

    1. Stop arguing with the voices in your head.

      1. Oh just read the comments yourself.

        People get bent out of shape whenever anyone right-leaning is criticized on their own merits, without Marxists being denounced at the same time.

        Laura Loomer, and QAnon, and Jacob Wohl, and the huge list of right-wing grifters and conspiracy kooks and nuts can be criticized for their insane beliefs on their own merits.

        1. Like you defending the asshole bureaucrats upstream who pleaded guilty to falsifying evidence to obtain illegal wiretaps, for an investigation they admit they knew was bullshit?

          1. You might want to worry about that plank in your eyes before worrying about the speck in everyone else’s. And mostly the posters have said this is not much of a story because it was obvious Trump made a joke about the conspiracy theory when he had it explained to him. An obscure conspiracy theory no one has really heard about. And he admitted he hadn’t heard about it. Your right, let’s get the pitchforks. Fuck, you are predictable.

          2. I didn’t defend anyone. You are unhinged on this matter. You’ve convinced yourself that the FBI itself is guilty of treason.

            1. I swear, I think some of you are viewing the entire Carter Page / Mueller Report saga through the lens of some fictional spy thriller novel. One in which the bad guy is really not the one that looks obvious, like some terrorist, but instead it’s the head of the FBI that is secretly funneling money to terrorists to pursue some secret political goal in DC to give him more money and power or some such thing like that. Like some book that you’d read on a long airplane flight and then think “well that was kind of interesting, good way to pass the time” and then throw it away. Except that type of story has been projected into the Carter Page affair. It’s kind of nuts to be honest.

              1. Two have plead guilty so far. But we are the ones in denial. Right you are. Fuck talk about confirmation bias.

                1. I’m not aware of the second one. Do you have a link?

                  1. I misread the story. So far it’s just one who, while it was only four (actually three) letters he changed, he added the word not which changed the entire meaning of the email. That’s a pretty big fucking change.

                    1. So what you’re saying is, it was wrong of you to berate me for being ignorant of the facts when actually I was the one who had greater command of the facts. That is what you are saying, isn’t it?

                      And he added four words, not four letters. And the change did not affect the material basis of the warrant.

                    2. No, unlike you I admit when I made a mistake. Added four words that changed him from being a legitimate CIA operative, to being an unregistered foreign agent. How is that not changing the material evidence of the warrant? The warrant was to investigate rather he was an unregistered foreign agent, and by lying about his status as a CIA operative/informant, it completely changed the narrative. As for your better command, on this one instance you did, I admit it. But you are also ignoring other facts. Or downplaying them. The whole investigation was rather he was an unregistered foreign agent, by lying about his status as a CIA informant (the issuing judge even said he would have denied the warrant continuation if the words hadn’t been added) they falsified evidence to obtain a continuation of a warrant that they even admit in their notes was unlikely to uncover any criminal activity. But that doesn’t matter to you as long as it makes Trump look bad.

                    3. Once again:

                      Page was not a CIA source in 2016.

                      Page was not working for the CIA in 2016. He was not an “agent” or an “operative” or an “asset”. Page’s actions in 2016 are all due to Page’s decisions.

                    4. His contacts with Russia were as a result of what he had done with the CIA when he was an official asset. Page is as asshole, but falsifying evidence is wrong. Period. Nothing excuses it. So no you aren’t being nuanced, you are doing the yeah they falsified evidence but… Routine. You are downplaying the malfeasance of the DoJ. Fuck page I could care less about him. This is about a high ranking DoJ lawyer falsifying evidence to continue a warrant that the DoJ had concluded wasn’t going to net anything. Period. It doesn’t matter who the target was. You are fixated on the target not on the DoJ malfeasance. I am more concerned when the federal government lies on a warrant application than I am about fucking Carter Page and his Russia ties. Understand?

              2. I am betting if it came out tomorrow that Clinton, Biden and Obama all directed a false investigation, knowing it was false, you would still defend it. You are so fucking transparently tribal it isn’t even funny you don’t even make an attempt at dispassionate critical thinking. It’s all orange Man Bad for you every single day and to fuck with the Constitiuton.

                1. If Clinton, Biden and Obama all publicly stated tomorrow that they intentionally directed a false investigation against Trump so as to try to thwart his election, then yeah I’d believe that. But they haven’t, however, you desperately want that to be the case.

                  I’m not the one going apeshit bananas about “bullshit investigation” because one guy admitted to inserting four words into an email that didn’t affect the material basis of the investigation anyway.

                  1. Apeshit crazy? Falsifying an email to change a man from a bonafide intelligence agent, working within the law, to making him an unregistered foreign agent breaking the law is no big deal? Really? And I never said that Biden, Obama etc were involved. I don’t know, but it sure seems as if some in the DoJ, and it seems they had a lot of power, did abuse their power to conduct an investigation under flimsy circumstances, which they continued by using false circumstances. I don’t care who the target was, that is just wrong. But because you hate Trump you are excusing this behavior. Nothing nuanced about your statement. You are purposely downplaying the importance of the malfeasance. Oh, did you also hear a State Department official today admitted he destroyed public records at the request of Christopher Steele, illegally? I’m sure you can explain that one too and downplay it as well.

                    1. Falsifying an email to change a man from a bonafide intelligence agent, working within the law, to making him an unregistered foreign agent breaking the law is no big deal? Really?

                      I didn’t say it was “no big deal”. You really should calm down when you post here.

                      And you are mischaracterizing things. Page was never an “intelligence agent”. He was a CIA source, from 2008 to 2013. It is actually possible to be both a CIA source and an unregistered foreign agent.

                      The email was altered to make it seem like Page wasn’t a CIA source in the past, which may have impacted the warrant judge’s decision. But it didn’t affect anything else in the investigation – Page’s shady ties, etc.

                      You apparently have this belief that Page’s shady contacts with Russians was at the direction of the CIA. Is that right? If so, why do you believe this to be the case?

                    2. The granting judge even stated if they had not changed the email he would have denied the continuation. Also, I did misuse agent, I meant informant. And yes I get fired up when people abuse the law, no matter how big a dirt bag page is. I fucking believe in the Constitiuton and I swore an oath to uphold it when I was 17 years and one day old. No one ever fucking relieved me of that oath. This is nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with falsifying evidence that the presiding judge even stated would have changed his ruling. The FISA courts need to be undone and the FBI needs drastic overhaul (actually prefer it to be completely disbanded). Yes I am hot about this, because it was wrong however you look at it. Fuck Trump and Page, but also fuck FISA and the DoJ.

                    3. His contacts were the result of what he had done for the CIA in 2013. Not saying he was still working with the CIA. Just that the evidence of his guilt wAs the result of legitimate work he had done as an informant.

                    4. I am not purposefully downplaying anything. I am putting the alterations to the email into the proper context and not hyperventilating over them.

                      But anyway I have to go to bed. I have a long day tomorrow, starting off with some ritual Marxist incantations, then offering a sacrifice to Stalin, then hanging out with the pedophiles and cannibals at Comet Pizza. Remember, WWG1WGA!

                    5. See you can’t even be honest. I never believed the pizzagate bullshit, nor the birther bullshit. But it’s all guilt by association for you. You dismiss any points I make by implying I am a nutcase be i.pkying I believe in conspiracies which I knew were false at the time and that I never supported. Fuck you are disingenuous.

                    6. God, you call others mean girls, but you are nothing but a smug narcissist who believes he is smarter than everyone who disagrees with him. If your head got any bigger you’d float away. As for your proper context, the proper context is they falsified information to continue a warrant. No conspiracy theory needed. All the rest is just an exercise in excusing their behavior and yes your putting it in “context” is downplaying it. Live with the fucking truth for a change. You are making excuses. Period. End of story.

          3. He didn’t. He said that despite the bureaucrat falsifying evidence, there was still substance to the investigation.

            1. The evidence completely disputed his case for the warrant. It went from him being a valid intelligence asset working for the CIA into an unregistered foreign agent. He went from someone helping the government to someone undermining the government. In my book that’s a fairly substantial change. But I know as long as it hurts Trump, you and Jeff will keep carrying water.

              1. Again, Page’s connection with the CIA ended in 2013. Page was not working with the CIA at all in 2016. What Page was doing in 2016 had nothing to do with the CIA.

                1. Does it matter, is that an excuse to lie on the warrant application? Because it sure seems like you are trying to excuse the lying on the warrant application. You state you condemn it and then add “but…. Page was a dirtbag” which seems an awful lot like you are downplaying it and excusing the behavior.

                  1. Page was not working for the CIA in 2016! He was not “helping the government” in 2016. He was not a CIA source in 2016. And by the way, it is entirely possible to be a CIA source and also not be a super-patriot either. It is also entirely possible to be a super-patriot in 2013 helping the CIA, but turn into a much different person in 2016 who was working for a foreign power instead.

                    1. And that excuses the lies on the warrant application? It doesn’t fucking matter is my point. They lied. That is unconscionable. Period no more excuses from you.

                    2. Nobody is excusing any lies on any warrant application! Get that through your thick skull!

                      Accurately stating what the lies were, and not going apeshit crazy about OMG IT’S TREASON, is not the same as “excusing” the lies.

                    3. How do you know that? We do know that he was testifying for the FBI as late as March of 2016 against Russian gangsters.

            2. And he is wrong. As stated previously, Mueller knew just a few months in there was nothing to Russia Obama. But you continue to ignore these pesky facts. Just like you ignore actual evidence of Hillary paying for Russian intel with Steele.

              You and Jeff (same person) are such partisans you ignore reality.

              1. Thank heavens Sean Hannity’s bastard son is here to give us all the right-wing take on things.

                1. Again, can you do anything but dismiss others by implying they do nothing but watch Fox News? I mean really? You are a one trick pony at this point.

                  1. JesseAz really is a disgusting rightwing tribalist partisan hack and I have no problems calling him out for his blatant hackery day in and day out. He offers nothing but a regurgitation of whatever Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson are saying on any given day.

        2. And then you go and doubled down on it and somehow stated Page deserved it because he was a dirtbag. That is almost the “she deserved to be raped because did you see how short her dress was” defense of judicial abuse.

          1. I’m not defending it, I’m describing what the law is. Currently, there are restrictions on what agents of foreign governments are allowed to do in this country. It’s not about whether Page is a dirtbag or not. It’s about his connections to a foreign power.

            1. Oh and that justifies malfeasance by the DoJ? Who in their own case notes stated that page was a dupe and their was no conspiracy (the case notes were declassified months ago) but continued the investigation and then falsified evidence. Yeah keep playing that hand, everyone knows your bluffing at this point.

              1. I’d be interested in reading the case notes which stated “Carter Page is a dupe, the real target is Trump!”

                1. I didn’t say the notes said the real target was Trump, I said the notes admitted page was a nobody, a dupe, and the investigation was flimsy at best. But you heard what you wanted to hear, because it satisfies your bias.

                  1. I’d still like to read these notes.

                    1. Do your own fucking research then. Because I doubt you would believe then even if I showed them to you. Or you would imply I also believed in the moon landing was a hoax, the loch mess monster and several other false conspiracy theories like you just did above. Because you resort to smearing a person’s reputation and falsifying what they actually say. You are a smug disingenuous prick who looks down your nose at anyone who disagrees with you. So fuck off. I actually prefer White Knight and Tony to you. Hell, I’ll take Tulpa’s nonsense over you.

        3. Speaking against any Trump-endorsed person or position makes you a liberal. Speaking in favor of any Trump-disfavored person or position makes you a liberal.

          1. No it doesn’t nice straw man. I criticize Trump all the time, here and other places. What makes him a liberal is his constant defense of anything liberals (actually progressives) say or do and the fact that he has admitted he is more of a leftist Libertarian, who thinks the left is far better than the right on every individual right (he said as much) and that the right is evil (again he said the right is evil, and when I pushed him on it, he backed off and said just most of them). He is a tribalist leftist. And the fact that you defend him after being presented with all the evidence multiple times, indicated you are also just a tribalist who forgives anyone who says orange Man Bad
            Hell, I’ve even seen you stand up for Tony.

            1. his constant defense of anything liberals (actually progressives) say or do

              Nope, not true.

              he has admitted he is more of a leftist Libertarian

              I am a left-leaning Libertarian, that much is true. Which is actually where mainstream libertarian thought was back in, say, the 1990’s.

              who thinks the left is far better than the right on every individual right (he said as much)

              Nope, not true. The left-wing in general is terrible on gun rights.

              the right is evil (again he said the right is evil, and when I pushed him on it, he backed off and said just most of them).

              Nope, didn’t say that either.

              He is a tribalist leftist.

              As noted by my ringing endorsement of the Green New Deal and Medicare for All, right? Umm no.

              And the fact that you defend him after being presented with all the evidence multiple times, indicated you are also just a tribalist who forgives anyone who says orange Man Bad

              You know, it may be a shock to hear this, but sometimes, Orange Man really is Bad, and deserves to be called Bad when Orange Man is Behaving Badly.

              Hell, I’ve even seen you stand up for Tony.

              What’s wrong with standing up for Tony, when Tony happens to be right? You wouldn’t want me to reflexively oppose everything that Tony says, would you? That would just make me a tribalist.

              1. “What’s wrong with standing up for Tony, when Tony happens to b e right?”

                Nothing, but outside of his push for gay rights, he never has been right.

                1. And even on gay rights he takes it to extremes. Wanting to force churches to hire gays and make Christians bake cakes.

                  1. You don’t know the half of it.

              2. Yes Trump is bad sometimes. But you find him bad all the time. And yes you did say that about the right but backed off really quick when I confronted you on it. And yes you did say on every individual right. And when I asked for you to specify you refused. I listed several where they are worse, including gun control, and you still refused to list what they were better on. I really think you are in denial about how left you really are. And you did condemn medicare for all but excused Biden because he only wants a public option funded by taxpayers. So, okay in medicare for all, and maybe even the green New Deal. You got me, two policies of the left you sort of disagree with.

                1. You are just imagining things now.
                  I never said that “the left” was better on “every individual right”. That is absurd. They are clearly worse on some, like gun rights.

                  Maybe that is what you thought I said, but that isn’t what I said.

                  I think part of the problem here is that I am not pants-on-fire hyperventilating about OMG THE LEFT IS GOING TO THROW ME INTO A GULAG nonsense that too many of the right-wingers around here seem insistent on fomenting. Democrats have a lot of bad ideas, but they aren’t on the verge of turning into a totalitarian Soviet state. There is noting intellectually dishonest or wrong or “tribalist” about criticizing their bad ideas while simultaneously not going off the deep end about the threat those ideas ACTUALLY pose, not imagined. Take your “Medicare For All” criticism. Biden does not favor Medicare For All. Biden favors a public option, like what Obama originally proposed for ObamaCare. There are many Democrats who do favor Medicare For All, yes. But Biden is not one of those Democrats. It is not “defending Biden” or “being a leftist tribalist” to correctly point out that Biden is not AOC or Sanders, Biden isn’t in favor of the same policies that AOC or Sanders would support, Biden isn’t going to institute an NHS-style complete government takeover of healthcare in this country. Is a public option a good idea? Probably not. That doesn’t mean it is OMG COMMUNISM though. Get it? Not every bad idea is OMG COMMUNISM.

              3. And yes you are a tribalist. Your tribe is anyone who hates Trump, whatever their declared political leanings. Trump is an asshole, who I didn’t vote for, and who I am not planning on voting for this year either. But you keep trying to imply I like Trump because I defend him when the accusations are bullshit or extremely biased (i.e. when people criticize him for shit every other president in recent history has done) or on the few occasions I agree with him. But because I am not 24/7 Trump hatred you label me a Trump supporter. You accuse me of believing bullshit conspiracy theories I never ascribed to. Even when I admit I was wrong, you can’t graciously accept it, no you have to double down and use it as further ammunition in your quest to destroy anyone who disagrees with your saintly take. You aren’t even original, you are completely predictable 99.9% of the time. Every so often you do actually support a true Libertarian position and actually even occasionally mildly criticize the left (but you almost always add a but Trump is worse).

            2. Has it occurred to you, I wasn’t referring to you?

              1. Has it occurred to you that no one has any idea what you’re posting about without some quote?
                You think your normally worthless BS is going to be traced back up-thread by those who know you specialize in bullshit?
                Nope, didn’t think so…

  9. “The president said he doesn’t know much about the movement but he’s Trump responded that he didn’t know very much about the QAnon movement, but he was grateful for the support.

    “They like me very much, which I appreciate,” he said.

    The president then downplayed QAnon’s kookiness, wrongly portraying its adherents as merely concerned about crime in Democrat-run cities.”

    FYI there is an election going on. I don’t know if you heard.

    1. The president has effectively shut down a $3.5 trillion stimulus plan with a $1 trillion bailout of the states that makes TARP look like a walk in the park.

      And we’re talking about a meme from 4chan?

      We may or may not get out of Afghanistan depending on whether Biden or Trump is elected, but let’s talk about a meme from 4chan?

      The S&P 500 hit a record high yesterday, despite the virus, but let’s talk about 4chan?

      Yeah, there’s an election going on–so let’s talk about something important for goodness’ sake.

      Plenty on staff don’t seem to care about issues at all anymore–as if Trump himself were the issue. Forget the Green New Deal, Medicare for All, or whether federal taxpayers should bail out the states–the important thing is that Trump was insufficient in his condemnation of a 4chan meme?!

      What a joke.

      1. I know, right?
        Every article should be super-serious about super-serious issues discussed in a super-serious way.

        Oh by the way. Did you hear that Ilhan Omar married her brother? How weird is that? It must be because she’s a communist.

        1. “Donald Trump was asked about the QAnon, a loose assortment of conspiracy theorists who think the president is waging a secret war against an international ring of Satan-worshipping Deep State pedophiles; the evil cabal purportedly includes various Hollywood celebrities, media figures, and Democratic Party leaders. Trump responded that he didn’t know very much about the QAnon movement, but he was grateful for the support.”

          What makes you think Robby isn’t taking QAnon seriously?

          1. What makes you think he is? Because he wrote an article about it? That means he is in pants-on-fire panic mode about QAnon?

            There is so much stupid shit posted here both as articles and as comments. FFS there are even *movie reviews* here at Reason. Talk about a waste of space. It is just petty to be criticizing Soave or anyone else for writing an article that you deem to be beneath your level of acceptable seriousness.

            1. I suspect the reason you still don’t get it is because you’re taking QAnon seriously.

              Do you take the Church of the SubGenius seriously, too?

              1. I suspect you’re deliberately missing my point. But here it is again:

                QAnon is an actual conspiracy group with real people who believe that shit, as insane as it sounds. It’s a real thing. However it is not some super-serious threat to the Republic. It isn’t as weighty of an issue as most issues in public discourse today. But there is no rule that Reason has to publish only super-serious articles that meets Ken Schultz’s threshold of what constitutes “super-seriousness”. You’re a petty little man who cannot stand that Reason wrote an article about a deranged conspiracy group that is Trump-adjacent.

        2. Otherwise, the Reason blog is wasting disk drive space and web hosting fees. I’m not sure why any of the hardcore Trump apologists here would care, since they proudly declared during the last few Reason fundraisers that they aren’t contributing anything to Reason.

          1. so civil

            1. Don’t claim to be. I used to be, but my civility was met with assholery from the Trump mean girls.

          2. “Otherwise, the Reason blog is wasting disk drive space and web hosting fees. I’m not sure why any of the hardcore Trump apologists here would care, since they proudly declared during the last few Reason fundraisers that they aren’t contributing anything to Reason.”

            So you missed your prom date and now you’re really upset? Did they open classes for you remotely or are you allowed to attend?

            1. Not upset at all. You, then other hand,me, I have seen lose you’re temper many times.

      2. Yep. Trump’s response was a pretty smooth way of taking the conversation away from petty gossip about conspiracy theorists toward an issue that is much more important to most of his base. But Robby still thinks everyone wants to hear about QAnon? Wtf

      3. Imagine if the press had gone after Ronald Reagan for being insufficient in his denunciations of J.R. “Bob” Dobbs and the Church of the SubGenius.

        Watching journalists go after Trump for not doing more to distance himself from QAnon and the people who propagate it–the joke’s on them.

      4. If the President had major victories on spending, stock market, etc. why did he bother to endorse a kook with QAnon theories? He wouldn’t need her support or association with her to ensure his re-election, right?

        1. “If the President had major victories on spending, stock market, etc. why did he bother to endorse a kook with QAnon theories?”

          One of the reasons he might have done it was to expose journalists and people in the news media as idiots for not getting the joke.

          1. Remember how the “OK” hand sign and Pepe the Frog are Nazi symbols because shut up Russian bot?

            White Knight remembers.

            1. They really believe this shit!

              They’ll believe anything they read in the news.

              You tell ’em the meme started on 4chan, and they still think it’s right as rain.

            2. Their critical thinking skills are practically nonexistent.

              1. . . . and it is hilarious.

          2. So, the President of the United States is a troll.

            1. Given that most of the legacy press is lefty-shit, there’s good reason to troll them.
              Yep, it is ‘un-presidential’ compared to Obo having Valery release his bullshit on Friday afternoons, after the J’s had lunch, but is is oh so wonderful watching lefty-shits like you duck and weave when trolled by Trump.

              1. And people say it is unfair of me to call some people here Trump apologists. Wow.

            2. Trolling the press is less expensive than traditional advertising and far more effective in reaching its intended audience.

            3. So, the President of the United States is a troll.

              And? Are trolls not allowed to be President?

      5. I think it’s that Reason hasn’t been leftist enough to get invited to those cocktail parties (just look at the Latest headlines from the last week or so), driven mostly by how hard it is to not criticize the Dem convention. So these crazy right wing conspiracy theories is an easy way for Reason writers to “Both Sides!” enough to prove themselves to their media in-group during this difficult week.

  10. Man, my shoulder is killing me. Had the rotator cuff strain to start with, then I was ordered to build 40 trifolds of plexiglass. Does anyone here know how plexiglass is handled, cut, and then sold? Specifically how it is protected? Show of hands? No? Sheets of plexiglass are protected by adhering a paper coat to them. The adeherant is very cool, scientifically. It only sticks to things like plexiglass and plastic. But, man, does it stick! So, I start ina corner of a 3′ x 6′ piece, start peeling the paper back. At some point I’ve got a roll across the whole panel, and then start pulling. Wow. What a work out. My shoulder feels like I’ve been pulling Charon and his charges across the river Styx for centuries.

    1. Reminds me of the time I had a plexiglass fish tank. That stuff scratches so easily and then you have to polish the whole pane, which is a total pain in the ass. Never again. Nothing but glass for me from now on.

      Anyway, hope your shoulder feels better soon!

  11. This is just name-calling assholishness in search of a point. Nothing about freedom or liberty. No ideals. No principles of any kind. No real information or discussion either. And no compassion or humanity.

    A decent person would feel ashamed to have written something like this. Is this Robby’s initiation for a job at CNN?

    1. It’s okay to admit that you’ve fallen for QAnon. There’s help for people like you.

      1. Tell me again about how Trump payed hookers to pee on him.

        1. Whatsboutism is a very weak form of argument. The recently released Senate report notes how the Steele dossier was itself part of a Russian disinformation campaign. Trump may or may not have been peed on, but you’d think government skeptics would spend a little time looking into these things rather than offering their own services to a government official all the time.

    2. It is newsworthy that the President of the United States endorsed a QAnon candidate.

      1. “It is newsworthy that the President of the United States endorsed a QAnon candidate.”

        As it was Obo’s support or that racist preacher-man, and his support of the hag’s fake claim of the Russian golden shower.
        Now, you claim to have been around for a while; how about giving us a link to your disapproval of those activities?
        Assuming your claim is true, you show up with a new handle, claim to be ‘neutral’, constantly fall on the left of any issue; which former handle are you trying to hide? How embarrassed are you of your former comments? Why are you such a coward?

          1. So it made no difference to you until you were called on your hypocrisy?
            My goodness! How surprising you’re held in such contempt.
            Grow up.

            1. So, I can’t win. If I say something critical of Obama or Biden or Democrats (which I do pretty much every day), it doesn’t count because … reasons.

              1. “So, I can’t win.”

                Oh, you poor, poor piece of lefty shit!
                Here you made no gripes about Obo until you were called on your bullshit about Trump, and then admitted you should have griped about Obo…
                And now claim to be a victim and want special dispensation.
                Go ask your priest.

      2. Let’s try this again:
        WHY ARE YOU SUCH A COWARD?
        Do you get it now?
        You claim to have been here for a long time, and then show up with a new handle. And while claiming to be a oh, so, wonderful ‘neutral’ in all the issues, still find yourself on the lefty side.
        Even a caveman can understand why you are being called on your bullshit; you, OTOH, seem to be confused.
        So, are you simply a lefty piece of shit who is hiding under an new handle or a stupid piece of shit who hopes no one notices?

        1. Just pointed you to a comment I made, on this very page, criticizing Obama, but I’m still on the “lefty side”.

          1. “Just pointed you to a comment I made, on this very page, criticizing Obama, but I’m still on the “lefty side”.”

            After being called on your bullshit?
            Do you think you’re mommy is reading this?

        2. Just wipe that dog shit off your shoe and don’t step in it again.

        3. See, it’s simple really.

          Either you believe Obama and the FBI committed treason to launch an illegal coup to overturn an election, or you’re a “lefty piece of shit”. There really is no in between here.

      3. That’s the 2020 bogeyman, right? Like Russia was the 2017 bogeyman and Brett Kavanaugh was the 2019 bogeyman?

        What if we don’t care about your stupid bogeymen?

    3. You’re not the first person to notice, Ben.

      When he tries to make a point out of it, it’s actually worse.

  12. “…a loose assortment of conspiracy theorists who think the president is waging a secret war against an international ring of Satan-worshipping Deep State pedophiles; the evil cabal purportedly includes various Hollywood celebrities, media figures, and Democratic Party leaders.”

    I’d so watch this movie.

  13. Deep State pedophiles; the evil cabal purportedly includes various Hollywood celebrities, media figures, and Democratic Party leaders

    Ha, ha, pedophiles and rapists in Hollywood and the DNC? That’s crazy talk…

    (Weinstein, Ailes, Spacey, Sheen, Lasseter, Michael Jackson, R. Kelly, Polanski, Bryan Singer, Conyers, Hastings, Kihuen, Clinton, Dean Westlake, Tony Mendoza, Anthony Weiner, etc.)

    1. The Republican speaker of the house was a child molester.

      1. So is their current president too, in all likelihood.

  14. Weird that Qanon has become such a media focus over the last 7 days…

    Anywho, anyone else see that picture of a DNC convention speaker getting a massage from an underage girl on Jeffery Epstein’s plane?
    Me neither

    1. Them gals were just independent sex worker contractors.

    2. However, to be sure, that underage girl was 22 at the time of the picture.

  15. This is flat earth/moon landing was faked type nonsense. Who is dumb enough to believe this shit?

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  17. Trump is just feigning ignorance because QAnon people have been prominent at his rallies for years.

    Kind of ironic that Trump is pretending to be ignorant about QAnon when he is truly ignorant about almost everything important.

    1. Yeah it is kinda hard to believe that Trump is ignorant about QAnon, since those folks are some of his biggest superfans, and Trump always likes to see his ego stroked. You’d think he would go out of his way to get to know the people who worship the ground he walks on.

      1. Of course he isn’t ignorant about Q. It is quite possible that he knows who Q is. And the Anons are Q’s army of crowd sourcers.

        What has to be remembered is that Q and his Anons are who originally exposed the Trump Russian Collusion story for being the manufactured hoax that it was. Anyone who has followed Q at all, knew the outline of the hoax, and who were the bureaucrats and high government officials involved, for the last three years. Nothing in that outline really has changed, except that more and more of the country is waking up to the crimes committed by those perpetuating the hoax. That is why they are hated. They also were instrumental in exposing a lot of the Epstein story. Both stories continue to evolve, as more and more becomes public.

        Why are Q and his Anons under attack right now? Because SpyGate has now reached back into the Obama Oval Office, and VP Biden played a part. He was apparently the first official to suggest using the Logan Act against Gen Flynn, Trump’s expected NSA, who had to be kept out of the White House at any cost (though it is doubtful that Biden actually came up with the idea). He is now the Democrats’ Presidential candidate. To summarize, Q and his Anons are under attack, because they have dirtied up Biden and Obama, for their parts in SpyGate (i.e. the Trump/Russian collusion hoax, primarily perpetuated by the FBI), and both the Clintons for their ties to Jeffrey Epstein.

        1. That’s some first class retarded conspiracy theory bullshit.

          1. That you completely failed to refute.

        2. How do the goobers explain Trump’s longtime friendship with Epstein and Maxwell?

          1. How do you explain Epstein being permanently thrown out of Mar-a-lago by Trump maybe 15 years ago, several years before Epstein’s conviction for sex crimes?

            What you have are photos of the two together over a decade ago. They ran in the same social circles in NYC and Palm Beach. Epstein loved his pictures with celebrities, and Trump was already a recognizable celebrity two decades ago.

            Keep trying.

  18. Man, those crazy right wingers and their crazy conspiracy theories. Not like the mailbox scandal, that’s completely legitimate with pictures and everything to prove it!

  19. A stupid question deserves a stupid response.

  20. Qanon and 4Chan are evil conspiracies, but there’s no such thing as Antifa, right?

  21. Trump is an egotist, and as such he would rather proclaim that kooks love him than distance himself from the kooks.

    This kind of behavior is not limited to Trump. I saw the same thing in the LP with one of it’s candidates who was all too willing to rub shoulders with and praise conspiracy nuts, and say he loves all his fans.

    Egotism goes hand in hand with politics. It’s why half these people run for office. But there comes a point when it’s embarrassing and they need to filter it. Sadly Trump has no filter.

  22. Steve Bannon was just arrested for defrauding “Build the Wall” donors.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-senior-trump-advisor-steve-bannon-charged-with-alleged-fundraising-scheme-11597931727?

    This prosecution is likely to be highly controversial to say the least.

    Audrey Strauss, the acting U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, I believe is only acting until the Senate confirms a new appointment, which hasn’t been made yet. She took over by default when Geoffrey Berman was fired by President Trump. She was his deputy attorney.

    She is also known for having gone after Michael Cohen, President Trump’s personal attorney, who was also working with the Trump campaign on campaign finance.

    It is highly suspicious to see her go after Steve Bannon at this point in the election cycle. Steve Bannon could be one hell of a fund raiser, and taking him out of commission at this point in the campaign probably hurts President Trump’s reelection chances–regardless of whether Bannon is actually guilty of anything.

    Occam’s razor suggests this prosecution is politically motivated.

    1. It makes sense they would do this on the day of Biden’s acceptance speech–since the news media will be focused on that instead of this highly suspicious prosecution.

      1. In what way is this prosecution suspicious?

    2. Ya think?

      Compare this to the Clinton Foundation, which took in a quarter of a billion dollars, mostly from foreign sources and governments, and some sponsors of terrorism.

      Did Hillary Clinton and her family and friends collect any salaries and pay any expenses from the Clinton Foundation? Of course, that’s the point of it.

      1. Thing is those foundations have to report everything. It was probably not the best charity by a long shot and who knows how much overhead they reported. Still it is not easy to get away with outright fraud.

        Trump had to close down his foundation. It was far more sketchy and was not really doing any charity.

        The Clintons likely saw it the way a woman sees a diamond necklace. “ Oh by the way Prince, we have some wonderful charity projects going on in our foundation. Relief in Haiti, let me introduce you to our project manager who can tell you more”.

        1. Thing is those foundations have to report everything. It was probably not the best charity by a long shot and who knows how much overhead they reported. Still it is not easy to get away with outright fraud.

          Bullshit. They escaped emoluments by disclosing all their donations to the administration and, after she was out, it was revealed that they hadn’t disclosed everything. And nothing else happened because, at this point, what difference does it make?

    3. Yeah because it would be terribly unlikely for Steve fucking Bannon to be a corrupt grifter. Ken, you need a vacation to clear your head. You’re just acting as Trump’s PR bitch lately.

    4. Occam’s razor seems to suggest otherwise.

      Most prosecutions are not politically motivated.
      Financial fraud is very common.
      Prosecutors do not like to lose cases they are rewarded for winning.

      Therefore the most likely explanation is he was up to something and they have evidence to go on.

  23. In the age of Epstein, the Lolita Express, Pedophile Island and the long list of powerful world figures associated with all of the above, exactly how crazy is the idea of a conspiracy of pedophiles and Satanists among the elite?

  24. Lol at this media meme. In the last 4 years I’ve seen a few QAnon tweets and the essential element seems like it was more based on Spygate.

    Remember the deranged conspiracy theory that Trump was a Russian asset? The entire mainstream media bought and sold that one to probably the majority of D voters, millions and millions of people.

    But they’re going to try and ignore that while blowing up this QAnon thing, pretending that everything they are saying is based on more than a few dozen Twitter posters that they don’t even know are genuine.

  25. So I click on the link about this Loomer person. It says she said she hoped immigrants would die. But no source, no quote, nothing.

  26. I can laugh at Trump’s jokes about Qanon and stuff, but when he refuses to say he’ll leave office if he loses it’s not funny anymore.

    1. Ken thinks that’s a funny joke too.

  27. I see the retard is out in force today in the Journolist crew. Why would you give a serious answer to an unserious question? Good thing the press corps is so good at detecting truth in the world like when they knew Mueller would have the goods any day now because Russiagate was totally legit and the pee tapes would take down Trump. Or maybe when they went “believe all women” over unverifiable accusations of gang rape parties and it has to be true because they found other women to tell other stories.

    Glad to see Robby doesn’t have any articles believing that horseshit…oh wait

  28. I guess his stance is that anyone who trusts him is fine people.

    1. Pretty much it.

  29. She had some amazing news to share but nobody to share it with. vibescraft

  30. Could someone tell me how to join QAnon; smoking my banana peels has lost some of its kick!

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