Reason Roundup

'Literally Hitler' Election Mailer Is Protected by the First Amendment

Plus: Trump talks COVID-19 numbers, more demands for TikTok, how the media might blow the 2020 election, and more..


Group wins challenge to Tennessee law against "false" speech in campaign literature. Is calling a political candidate "literally Hitler" illegal? Not in Tennessee, according to a new court ruling.

The case was brought by the nonprofit group Tennesseans for Sensible Election Laws, which created a flyer critical of state Rep. Bruce Griffey and his proposal to chemically castrate some people convicted of sex offenses against minors.

"Bruce Griffey is LITERALLY HITLER" it says at the  top and, underneath that, "Bruce Griffey: an agenda the Nazis would love."

"You would think in 2020 we've moved on from Nazi-style population control, but here we are," the flyer continues before explaining Griffey's proposal and calling for people to "Vote NO on Bruce Griffey."

Tennessee state law prohibits publishing or distributing "campaign literature in opposition to any candidate in an election" if any "statement charge, allegation, or other matter contained therein with respect to such candidate is false." It makes no exceptions for satire, hyperbole, or parody.

Under the law, Tennesseans for Sensible Election Laws (TSEL) would have faced a fine and jail time for distributing the "literally Hitler" flyer. Instead, the group filed a lawsuit challenging the Tennessee law and asking for the right to distribute "satirical, parodical, and hyperbolic campaign literature."

Last Thursday, Davidson County Chancellor Ellen Hobbs Lyle ruled in the group's favor, finding Tennessee's prohibition on "false speech" in election communications to be a violation of the First Amendment and the Tennessee Constitution.

The law "punishes only false political speech in opposition to candidates for elected office, while permitting false speech in support of such candidates," noted Lyle in her decision. "Such viewpoint discrimination is incompatible with the First Amendment, and no compelling interest supports it." More from the decision:

Second, Tennessee Code Annotated § 2-19-142 exclusively penalizes false campaign literature opposing candidates seeking elected office, while permitting all other false campaign literature and all speech regarding noncandidates. Such content-based restrictions on speech similarly contravene the First Amendment.

Third, Tennessee Code Annotated § 2-19-142's criminalization of "false" speech cannot be reconciled with the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in United States v. Alvarez, 567 U.S. 709 (2012), which held that a statement's falsity alone is insufficient to remove it from the ambit of protection guaranteed by the First Amendment.

Fourth, Tennessee Code Annotated § 2-19-142 is unconstitutionally overbroad because it prohibits a substantial amount of constitutionally protected speech, both in an absolute sense and relative to the statute's legitimate sweep, and because a substantial number of instances exist in which § 2-19-142 cannot be applied constitutionally.

Fifth, by restricting speech based on its content, by proscribing protected speech, and by criminalizing political speech based on viewpoint, Tennessee Code Annotated § 2-19-142 contravenes the more expansive protections of article I, section 19 of the Tennessee Constitution.

Read the full decision granting TSEL summary judgment here.

"The framers of our Constitution believed that robust public speech and debate would be essential to self-government," said TSEL Executive Director and Treasurer George Scoville in a statement following the ruling. "This law tried to put its thumb on the scale, favoring the very people who enacted it—Tennessee state lawmakers—to the detriment of members of the voting public, who also have a reciprocal right to hear political communications and decide for themselves what matters in an election, including what is true or false."

"Soon after the ruling on Thursday, Tennesseans for Sensible Election Laws announced plans to send the mailers comparing Griffey to Adolf Hitler," the Nashville Tennessean reports.


Trump talks COVID-19 numbers. In a new interview with Axios reporter Jonathan Swan, President Donald Trump displayed (once again) what's either an astoundingly abysmal understanding of charts and statistics or a willful attempt to confuse Americans about how poorly we're doing at controlling the new coronavirus compared to other countries. See for yourself below:


More on Microsoft, Trump, and TikTok. After threatening to ban the extremely popular Chinese-owned TikTok, then saying it was OK for Microsoft to acquire the company for U.S. users if they did so by September 15, the president spoke about the situation again at a Monday press conference, suggesting the federal government should get a cut of whatever deal may be struck.

"A very substantial portion of that price is going to have to come into the Treasury of the United States, because we're making it possible for this deal to happen," Trump told reporters.

"Both parts of this are incredibly disturbing: The casual assertion that Trump can unilaterally 'shut down' a media platform, and the implication that the government would somehow extort a payment as a condition on a business acquisition," commented Julian Sanchez, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute who focuses on tech policy and privacy issues. "This is a laughably thin 'national security' pretext being invoked to abuse executive emergency authorities in order to expropriate a foreign company. If China was pulling this, we'd recognize it easily for what it was."


How the media might blow the election. A massive increase in mail-in voting due to the COVID-19 pandemic will mean election result delays that could drag on for weeks. That leaves a lot of time for media-driven mishaps and more, warns Ben Smith at The New York Times:

The coronavirus crisis means that states like Pennsylvania may be counting mail-in ballots for weeks, while President Trump tweets false allegations about fraud. And the last barriers between American democracy and a deep political crisis may be television news and some version of that maddening needle on The New York Times website.

I spoke last week to executives, TV hosts, and election analysts across leading American newsrooms, and I was struck by the blithe confidence among some top managers and hosts, who generally said they've handled complicated elections before and can do so again. And I was alarmed by the near panic among some of the people paying the closest attention—the analysts and producers trying, and often failing, to get answers from state election officials about how and when they will count the ballots and report results.

"The nerds are freaking out," said Brandon Finnigan, the founder of Decision Desk HQ, which delivers election results to media outlets. "I don't think it's penetrated enough in the average viewer's mind that there's not going to be an election night. The usual razzmatazz of a panel sitting around discussing election results—that's dead," he said.

Read the whole thing here.


• "Americans can't agree on whether face masks are a good way to reduce the threat of transmitting COVID-19," writes J.D. Tuccille. "But we should at least be able to agree that face coverings are a great way to defeat the surveillance stateespecially now that the U.S. government has conceded that masks confuse the hell out of facial recognition technology."

•  Some smart insights from Jennifer Huddleston, director of technology and innovation policy at the American Action Forum, on last week's Congressional "antitrust" hearing.

Reason Senior Editor Brian Doherty dissects the political evolution of Peter Thiel.

•  COVID-19 "flare-ups and local lockdowns for the next year or two" are "entirely possible," said Neel Kashkari, president of the Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank.

NEXT: What’s the Best Way To Protect Free Speech? Ken White and Greg Lukianoff Debate Cancel Culture

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  1. “Bruce Griffey is LITERALLY HITLER” it says at the top and, underneath that, “Bruce Griffey: an agenda the Nazis would love.”

    Yelling figuratively in a crowded theater.

    1. Hello.

      “COVID-19 “flare-ups and local lockdowns for the next year or two”

      Spiralling out of control in a death embrace.

      Lockdowns are immoral, lack compassion and have little evidence to back it up.

      Coronaviruses don’t go away. What are we going to do? Keep playing whack-a-mole with it? Superstition reigns.

      1. Keep playing whack-a-mole with it?

        You can count on it, Rufus. Those alarming skyrocketing spikes in growing hot-spots will keep us entertained for the indefinite future.

        1. I give it 2 seasons at most.

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      2. We are expected to ignore 5 decades of research due to new unverified models which show compliance to government mandates save lives.

      3. It depends on who wins the next election

      4. “There’s too many fuckin’ people anyway.” #FattenTheCurve

    2. Isn’t it literally libel?

      1. Hitler is dead. You can’t libel the dead.

      2. Someone could say the exact same thing if Bill Clinton trys to shut down Publications that calls him a Pedo

    3. If he’s literally Hitler, he’s also the world’s oldest man.

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  2. “Talkes”

    Fn europhiles

  3. Oh, you’re doing death as a proportion of cases. I’m talking about death as a proportion of population.


    1. USA is #10 on deaths per cases. Behind Belgium, UK, Spain, Sweden and others.

      I’m not sure how you can say that is a miserable failure. And there was no national lockdown! Only states made these choices. This should be touted as a SUCCESS.

  4. …the president spoke about the situation again at a Monday press conference, suggesting the federal government should get a cut of whatever deal may be struck.

    Like it won’t anyway.

    1. Hey, they brokered the deal, they should get a taste.

  5. . The usual razzmatazz of a panel sitting around discussing election results—that’s dead,”
    The first sign of real improvement.

    1. Ima say there will *plenty* of such panels discussing “results”.

    2. Be honest… you’re gonna miss the tears of “neutral reporters” at MSNBC on election night.

      1. Yep. I was already planning on taking the next day off work.

        1. Tear hangovers are the worst.

          Though, I have to admit that the day after the election in my office was eye-opening from a psychological perspective. It was the first time I had ever noticed being at a markedly different stage of grief from all the people around me.

          The thought that kept going through my head was, “Hunh. I mean, I knew I was going to hate whoever ended up getting elected like, six months ago. Y’all just found out last night.”

          1. The thought that kept going through my head was, “Hunh. I mean, I knew I was going to hate whoever ended up getting elected like, six months ago. Y’all just found out last night.”

            That was exactly my reaction, too.

          2. It wasn’t my plan to be having the tears, but to be celebrating those on tv.

            1. Yeah, I meant the hangover from drinking too many of them. 😀

  6. No mention of the George Floyd bodycam footage finally being released?
    Seems like that’s pretty big news…

    1. Does it fit the narrative?

      1. No, but very little about the case ever did.
        Floyd was uncooperative, clearly intoxicated, and started saying “I can’t breathe” before going to the ground.
        It’s possible he was having a panic attack.
        Yet that doesn’t change the fact that Chauvin’s action was excessive and wrong.
        The trial will be a shitshow

        1. It was always part of the story that he was intoxicated and uncooperative.

          The part where he says he started saying, “I can’t breathe”, before being knelt on would be new information (if that’s true). Like you just said yourself, it doesn’t matter much.

          1. I agree George Floyd’s state is not the issue. Police frequently deal with intoxicated people, they are not suppose to kill them in the process.

            1. Are they supposed to have fentanyl in their system?

              1. Well, police are also supposed to be able to deal with that without killing the person being arrested, if that is what you are asking.

          2. (if that’s true)

            They played the video, the video was leaked. How is this even a conditional statement at this point unless you are intentionally being ignorant on the point?

            1. Because I watched the video last night, but didn’t notice that detail. Today, I am not in a place where I can watch videos right now. So, I cannot verify what you are saying is true.

          3. The video is out there. Yes, he was saying he couldn’t breathe before they touched him. They also pleaded with him to leave the car repeatedly. Ellison overcharged to insure riots when the cops are acquitted.

    2. What actual NEWS was in those videos?

      1. (if that’s true)

        How about educating yourself and going to watch the video if you are interested.

        1. I did. It didn’t provide any new information.

      2. Yeah..sure, just embrace your persistent ignorance. Why stop now.

        The leaked body cam videos completely refute the early memes about police brutality. It’s unlikely any jury in the country would find these officers guilty of Floyd’s death based on the body cams combined with the blood tox results. that’s not to say there aren’t policy/action problems here, but this is not at all what they are being charged with by Ellison. The country has been played.

        1. Thank you. I should have been more explicit that I had watched the video. What I was asking for is, in your interpretation or viewing, what did you see that was new information?

          Now, please explain which memes you are talking about, and how they are refuted.

        1. Mr. Brown can moo! Can you?

      3. An observer might note that Floyd was non-compliant from the beginning. They might also see that he seem’s delirious and irrational throughout. If he were not resisting arrest (flailing around and intentionally falling over), he would be sitting in the back of the cop car, and any medical outcomes would be void of the considerations of being restrained in the prone position. They would observe the officers mention “excited delirium syndrome” which seem to match with his behavior and speech.
        This article was shared yesterday which provides pretty good analysis of the case:

  7. How the media might blow the election. A massive increase in mail-in voting due to the COVID-19 pandemic will mean election result delays that could drag on for weeks. That leaves a lot of time for media-driven mishaps and more, warns Ben Smith at The New York Times:

    Why the Botched N.Y.C. Primary Has Become the November Nightmare
    Nearly six weeks later, two congressional races remain undecided, and officials are trading blame over the mishandling of tens of thousands of mail-in ballots.

    1. Guess New York City’s potential problems in counting mail-in ballots would be a bigger problem if it were anything close to being a swing state.

      1. Oh, look, the idiot cousin who thinks he is funny, and so hangs out and says stupid shit all day long.

        1. He squawks around the site like an injured bird that was hit by one of the windmills he was tilting at.

    2. Wow. And NY’s primaries for all offices, including Congress, used to be only a little more than 6 weeks before the general election!

  8. Local story

    1. … With broader implications for those who would like to make laws to outlaw false speech

  9. Socialist big government + big business. What was the term for that again?
    We shouldn’t fetishize mom and pops. They offer lower wages, skimpier benefits, and inferior labor protections.

    1. You’re leaving out the racism and homicidal nationalism.

      1. Pretty common feature of all totalitarian governments

      2. Does anti-semitism count as racism? It did for the Nazis.

      3. China would like to speak to you.

    2. Now that they think they have control of global corporations, suddenly kulak small businesses need to be eliminated for the good of the collective.

      This is basically their MO–keep shifting the goalposts until they have total control over the state. They have no principles or shame, so it’s not like hypocrisy is something that will phase them. This is why governments end up going full Pinochet.

    3. Remember when they hated Walmart because it was muscling out the Mom and Pop shops?

    4. Neofeudalists.

  10. And the last barriers between American democracy and a deep political crisis may be television news and some version of that maddening needle on The New York Times website.

    “Here, douse yourself with our gasoline to keep from getting any of that fire on you.”

  11. Is calling a political candidate “literally Hitler” illegal?

    Oh, FFS!

    Is calling a person calling a political candidate “literally Hitler” “literally retarded” illegal?

    1. Not illegal, but in 2020 calling someone retarded is in poor taste. Calling someone literally Hitler is acceptable in polite company.

    2. Hurk!… can’t… process… literally… definition… figuratively… fucking… dictionaries… crimes against humanity… literally… Hitler…

      aneurysm… imminent… hurk!

      Mmm. Do I smell toast? Now I am hungry. Is my foot asleep? It won’t move.

    3. no but it’s clearly more offensive you ablist cis-gender patriarchy supporter


    Overnight on 3–4 August, #antifa black bloc gathered outside the
    building on SE Burnside again, far from downtown. They again shut down the street & attacked officers w/lasers, paint, punches & a stick. Only 2 were arrested.

  13. I don’t think it’s penetrated enough in the average viewer’s mind that there’s not going to be an election night.

    Boners or tears, that’s all the viewers will need to look out for on Election Night.

    1. Boners or tears

      Nice band name, albeit perhaps too similar to “Blood, Sweat & Tears” and “Guns N’ Roses”.

      1. Could have been the alternative name for Simon and Garfunkel.

      2. Boners AND Tears is far superior

  14. Damn that Orange Man
    Violent protesters resist arrest on SE Burnside after shutting down the street outside the SE Portland Police building again. Two days ago they launched an attack on officers there using paint & glass. This is now a recurring targeted site.

    1. No shit. “Most of the protesters/Muslims are peaceful.”

      The media hasn’t exactly hidden the connection. They even repurposed the main talking point

    2. Is it really that much of a shock that a Muslim Brotherhood-aligned organization would be allied with a DNC money laundering front, though? The whole fucking point of the Arab Spring wasn’t for “democracy,” it was to enable the MB to increase their standing in the Muslim world. That’s why Qatar and the GCC are constantly at each other’s throats, and why Egypt is now a de jure military dictatorship, rather than a de facto one as it was under Mubarak–because Morsi fucked up and forgot that the college students who brought Mubarak down don’t actually run the country.

  15. OK for Microsoft to acquire [TikTok] for U.S. users if they did so by September 15

    Because that would totes take care of any security and privacy concerns?

    1. The viruses will repel the Chinese spies

    2. Microsoft should concern itself with the mess they’re making of their own core business.

    3. Microsoft has stated they will do a thorough privacy and security review as part of the acquisition, for whatever that is worth.

      1. Hopefully as thorough a review as they do for their own operating systems…

        1. I doubt the heart of the Windows source code can be reviewed. There are very ancient and evil things lurking in those inky waters.

  16. America’s best governor Andrew Cuomo denounces Drumpf for failing to deal with the #TrumpVirus as effectively as New York has.

    The national COVID response was a historic and colossal blunder by the federal government. Six months and this virus is still out of control around the country. Six months wasted.

    Although Cuomo is a male and is therefore ineligible to be Biden’s VP, he deserves a key role in the Biden Administration. Surgeon General, maybe.


    1. OK, I LOLed.

    2. More of this, less Koch dribble.

      1. Dribble?

        1. Don’t shoot!

  17. MSNBC producer resigns from network with scathing letter: They block ‘diversity of thought’ and ‘amplify fringe voices’
    Ariana Pekary said important facts and studies about the coronavirus would ‘get buried’

  18. When they tell you a bill does X, it almost certainly doesn’t. And they almost certainly didn’t read the bill. Nor did their staff. But they’ll get away with it. Because you want to believe it. And because you heard the same thing from the media, who also didn’t read the bill.

    It’s okay. The enforcement arm can interpret it as they wish, anyway.

  19. The “Literally Hitler” case is about the debasement of the English language. “Literally Hitler” is a slander and should be treated as such. It only isn’t because the word “literally” has been debased beyond recognition.

    1. Don’t you mean “literally debased beyond recognition”?

      1. In this case, yes, “literally debased beyond recognition”.

        1. John, you are literally a gentleman. 😎

          1. Figuratively murdered it

  20. Karen Bass Said It Was ‘Miracle’ That Liquor Stores Were Burned Down In LA Riots

    Rep. Karen Bass, a top contender to be Joe Biden’s running mate, said in 1992 that the burning of hundreds of liquor stores during the L.A. riots was a “miracle” because it rid poor neighborhoods of hotspots for crime and drug activity.

    Bass was a community activist at the time focused on shutting down liquor stores, many of which were owned by Korean immigrants.

    The Democrat gave several interviews after the riots on the liquor store issue. She told The New York Times at the time that while arson was not the ideal path to force liquor stores closed, the burnings accomplished what her activist group had tried for years to achieve.

    1. Just a happy coincidence!

    2. Carrie Nation is smiling down upon her.

    3. it’s the demon rum, I tell you

    4. And ever since then the hoods in LA became like Leave it to Beaver.

  21. But we should at least be able to agree that face coverings are a great way to defeat the surveillance state…

    Personally I am enjoying the opportunity to mask up in public.

  22. Black Lives Matter Protesters Swarm Seattle Police Chief’s Home

    These direct actions against elected officials, and especially civil servants like myself, are out of line with and go against every democratic principle that guides our nation. Before this devolves into the new way of doing business by mob rule here in Seattle, and across the nation, elected officials like you must forcefully call for the end of these tactics.

    The events of this summer were initiated in a moment of grief and outrage over the murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis police officers and so many other Black and Brown people suffering at the hands of injustice. All of us must ensure that this righteous cause is not lost in the confusion of so many protestors now engaging in violence and intimidation, which many are not speaking against.

    1. they were fine with it when the mobs were targeting republicans at restuarants and Tucker Carlson’s home. what changed

  23. COVID-19 “flare-ups and local lockdowns for the next year or two” are “entirely possible,” said Neel Kashkari, president of the Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank.



    Trump approval rating at 51% and supporters 70% more enthusiastic to vote than Biden’s. You mean the Democrats’ patented brand of contempt for the public and mob violence isn’t selling? Big if true.

    1. LOL

      Biden will humiliate Drumpf in the debates and cruise to a landslide victory.

      1. Biden will humiliate Drumpf in the debates[.]

        This may well be your strongest work yet, though the one upthread was pretty solid, too.

        You’re on point today, OBL.

    2. Well we know this is true:

      The Manhattan district attorney’s office announced today it was investigating “public reports of possibly extensive and protracted criminal conduct at the Trump Organization.”

      1. Yea, they’ll totes find something THIS time!

        Walls are a’closin in!!!

        1. It’s all abstract to you, I get that, but if this were happening to you, i.e. the DA was criminally investigating you, you wouldn’t be sleeping at night.

          1. So you’re saying that the DA has his man and is just looking for a crime?

            1. That’s the left’s MO for the last 4 years.

          2. You do realize that we already went through this during the Woodchipper Incident, right?

            1. He’s a moron that doesn’t realize shit.

      2. Do you even find it slightly concerning that the D.A. announced he was opening this investigation not on any actual evidence, but solely because of news reports? Is that how you want investigations to begin? Because the media asked?

        1. Yes he does. He’s made that clear.

    3. Don’t want to talk about that horrible interview, eh? I understand.

      Going back and listening to interviews of David Duke and David Duke voters, it dawned on me that Trump voters have been repeating the same excuses that Duke voters did. Not similar; the exact same. David Duke even switched to patrolling the southern border for illegals a few years ago, when hating on blacks and jews became less popular openly.

      I really challenge Trump voters to listen to this series.
      The similarities between the Duke campaign and the Trump campaign cannot be coincidental. Trump, and GOP politicos took note of Duke’s success, and kept parts of his playbook. Mostly the dressed up racism.

      If you are confident in your support of Trump, you should challenge it.

      1. I thought his interview was fine. The fact that your talking points say otherwise is really of no consequence. Regardless, get back to me when Biden is able to actually have an interview where the questions are not set before hand and he basically gives rehearsed answers to softball questions.

        No one finds your unsupported assertions and talking points persuasive Jeff. You are just wasting your time.

        1. Biden can’t even read from a script anymore without sounding incoherent. The DNC leadership needs to be cuffed and stuffed for elder abuse for putting him up as their candidate.

          It’s absolutely shocking how fast his decline has been over the last couple of years, and this is coming from someone who thought he would have been an okay President if he had run in 2016.

      2. wow….sorry your meds are working.

      3. What are you going to do with these 50 cents?

      4. Haha. God, you’re fucking boring.

        Is that the plan? To get everyone so tired of virtue signaling assholes that they lose interest altogether, and things just fester and get worse?

        If so, well done! Don’t change a thing.

      5. “Going back and listening to interviews with david duke…….”

        I mean seriously, who does shit like that? What is wrong with you?

        1. He gets an extra 50 cents for research.

          1. Lol. Look how threatened you ignoramuses are when someone tells you to look at a piece of information.

            Don’t want anything in your head that might challenge your established and comfortable fantasy.

            1. Your TDS does not threaten me. Actually, I find it amusing.

              1. then check out the podcast. Top tier in depth journalism about a relevant topic from a historical perspective.

                1. “top tier”

        2. You should. Seriously. Trump ripped off the Duke campaign 100%.

          And it would open your eyes to how history is going to view you.

          1. Like Robert Byrd endorsing Al Gore? Or Biden considering Byrd a mentor?

            Weird, right?

            1. Let’s spin the whatabout wheel!

              whatabout whatabout whatabout



              The new favorite! Spin again!

          2. History has a pretty ambiguous view of Genghis Khan, so I’m not sure what you’re emoting about here.

    4. Enthusiasm for Joe Biden is irrelevant as the election will be a referendum on President Trump. There is plenty of enthusiasm to vote against the President. As for mob violence, that went down when the storm troopers left Portland. This suggests that the Law and Order may not sell as well as you think it will.

      1. …except it did not. It’s also going to the suburbs of Portland.

      2. Enthusiasm for Biden matters more than anything. If you are enthusiastic to vote against Trump you are by definition enthusiastic to vote for Biden. Yet, people who say they support Biden are not very enthusiastic to vote for Biden. That means they are less likely to show up. Elections are and have been for a while about turnout. And all the evidence indicates the Democrats are going to have a very hard time getting enough turnout to win.

        You don’t understand how this works. Go back to posting your canned talking points Jeff.

        1. I think you are the one not understanding. When an incumbent President is running for reelection it is primarily a referendum on the President. Enthusiasm can run both ways and in this case it is running against the President. You are right about turn out as Trump benefitted from low turn out in 2016. That is unlikely to happen in 2020.

          1. At this time in 2016, here in Austin, there were Hillary and Bernie signs and stickers all over the place. So far this year, I’ve only seen a couple of Biden stickers and no yard signs. We’ll see if that changes after the convention but I’m not seeing much Biden support from a solid Democrat town. A majority of voters may not support Trump and want him replaced but if they don’t have any motivation for his opposition will they show up at the polls? We’ll see.

      3. “As for mob violence, that went down when the storm troopers left Portland.”

        …which it easy and completely shown to be false by all relevant facts

      4. “As for mob violence, that went down when the storm troopers left Portland.”

        You’re amazing, don’t ever change.

        1. I know, right? Haha

    5. It also showed large support from minorities.

  25. More bad economic news.’s benefactor Charles Koch only earned $437,000,000 yesterday.

    That’s not enough to get him out of the $8 billion hole he’s in this year because of Drumpf’s draconian war on immigration.


  26. Maybe they could farm out elections to say someone like my credit card company and do it online. My company detects fraud and stops the account. It also gets my charges correct and usually on the same day. Also I’m sure they could implement voice or facial recognition. And if the card isn’t used in a period of time they notify me they are closing the account. Of course somewhere along the process I’m sure that they’d suppress the vote for POC so we couldn’t have that.

    1. There are many credit card processors, and if they get hacked, all that is lost is some money. Online voting would be the most attractive hacking target in history, and the consequences of a hacked election would be disastrous to our democracy. The risk is just too high. At least with the current system it is too distributed for any type of massive attack.

      1. You mean distributed to the US Post Office?

      2. But if you drop a ballet in the mail it is exactly the same as putting it in a secure bank vault. Totes safe. Nothing could possibly go wrong.

      3. There are many credit card processors, and if they get hacked, all that is lost is some money.

        Nice trolling. I almost went for the bait…

    2. No app security can prevent bribes or threats in person to get someone to vote a certain way.

      1. “Willie Brown: Why Democrats own the GOP in mail voting”
        “…“Harvesting” votes can be also be effective — that’s where the campaign actually delivers absentee ballots for people — but you have to be careful. It’s legal in California but not in all states, and even in California, you can get in trouble.
        Lee’s people got into hot water in his first election when they set up a booth at a Chinatown street fair and helped fill out and collect absentee ballots for elderly Chinese-speaking voters….”

  27. Sweden’s Top Epidemiologist Says ‘We See No Point In Wearing Masks’ As COVID-19 Cases Drop
    “Not even on public transport.”

    As Sweden’s COVID-19 cases continue to drop, the country’s top epidemiologist Anders Tegnell said he sees “no point” to mandating masks in public.

    “With numbers diminishing very quickly in Sweden, we see no point in wearing a face mask in Sweden, not even on public transport,” he said, as reported by Fortune.

    According to Newsweek, Sweden’s death rate from COVID-19 is now lower than Italy’s, the U.K.’s, and Spain’s despite having never implemented a full-scale lockdown:

    1. BUT SCIENCE!!!

      1. I can’t wait for the models over data/reality form of science to end.

        1. It was inevitable that science reach a point where the number of ‘new’ discoveries to take credit for diminished to a point insufficient to bolster the ego of people who remain in academia after finishing their schooling because they believe themselves to be smarter than everyone else and above the ‘rat race’. Now we get celebrity scientists like NDT and Bill Nye who explain Science! to the plebes and promote the idea of human caused mass extinction and other existential threats.

          Models are to Science! what formulas and proofs are to science. Except formulas and proofs can be checked against reality while models rely on assumptions that require little, if any, justification.

        2. It never will, because data/reality don’t confirm my talking points, but this model does.

    2. Meanwhile, we’re back to a 1000 deaths a day in America and it’s the middle of summer when these viruses are supposed to lay low but apparently not.

      1. You mean the masks aren’t working? Better start goggling up!

        1. I vacationed on the Gulf coast a week after the 4th of July and I can tell you that very few people were wearing masks at that time. And where I live, in a red state, people just got serious about wearing masks but there are still many people refusing to do it.

          1. You went on vacation to the coast? YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!

            1. It’s how progs operate. Rules for thee but not for me!

          2. You’d think someone so concerned wouldn’t travel?

          3. I vacationed on the Gulf coast a week after the 4th of July

            Cavorting at the coast in the middle of a pandemic? I am surprised you didn’t visit Argentina, as you are literally Hitler.

      2. Meanwhile 3 million people die every year in the US. Meanwhile we are still being financially incentivized to report ‘died with’ instead of ‘died of’. Meanwhile the regional differences are matching flu seasons with sunbelt being hit last.

      3. and the case rate started spiking two weeks after the protests started, and the death rate started spiking two weeks after that….

    3. Never been prouder of my single-digit-percentage Swedish heritage

      1. My DNA profile has been refined to 14% Swedish. I don’t know the language and hate the cold, but I have always been fond of fjords.

        1. I identify as 5.6% Swedish now, despite my assigned ancestry at birth…

    4. Unpossible. The NY Times told me that everybody in Sweden died. Twice.


    John Podesta is war gaming Blue states leaving the Union if Trump wins. Podesta is an idiot. If he wasn’t an idiot, he would understand no states are going to try and leave the union nor could they if they tried.

    First, The public will not support a civil war. If you don’t believe me, look at the luck Antifa has when it leaves Portland and Seattle. There is no broad support for any kind of insurrection in this country. Even in California, it is one thing to answer a poll in support of leaving, it is quite another thing to actually go to war. Moreover, even if California voted to leave the Union, the President would federalize it’s National Guard and the state would be left defenseless. Of the people in California who would support leaving the union, how many of them are of the type to join the National Guard? Very few I would imagine.

    When the Civil War started the states controlled their own militias and their militias were neither funded by the federal government or subject to federal control without the consent of the governor. None of that is true today. The National Guard Act of 1916 effectively ended the existence of real state militias and turned the National Guard into a federal force that states can borrow whenever they are willing to fund it.

    States no longer have private armies the way they did in 1861. And without an army, a civil war is going to be pretty difficult for any state to launch.

    1. Not that kind of Civil War. If there is a next one, we’ll have some sections of the military supporting one side or the other (both sides assume 100% of the military will be on their side because they are defending the ‘government’ or the ‘constitution’), and lots of private violence in the streets.

      1. I do not think the military would split. The US military is too well disciplined and the tradition of staying out of politics too ingrained.

        As far as violence in the streets, there just isn’t enough people in the public at large who would support such a thing and too many state and local governments who would not tolerate it. Antifa has engaged in riots and attempted civil insurrection in exactly three places, Minneapolis, Seattle, and Portland. Every time they have tried to do something elsewhere, the police have shown up and thrown them in jail and put an end to it very quickly. What happened in the three cities where they did do something was basically cosplay where they pretended to have an insurrection and the city pretended to let them.

        The US is a nation of over 300 million people. It also has tens of thousands of locally controlled law enforcement agencies along with 50 sovereign states and an enormous federal government. Oh and the public is armed to the teeth in most areas of the country. Against that we have what? Maybe a few thousand Antifa losers, many of the most dedicated are likely to be under federal or state indictment by the fall for the antics they have pulled this summer and a few dozen radical mayors of large cities and maybe two or three governors. That doesn’t add up to an insurrection or violence in the streets of any real consequence given the size of the country.

    2. The California one would be especially hilarious. Don’t even need to invade, just re-route the water and they’ll give up pretty quick.

      1. Don’t even need to go that far. Just stop shipping them food, fuel, and electricity.

    3. I also love the whole “The West Coast will secede”. No. Certain cities might. The majority of those states want those cities out of their hair ANYWAY and will remain.

      Rural WA has been wanting to join Idaho. Eastern CA has wanted to make a new state as well.

      1. When it was explained to the public that their federal unemployment, medicare, and Social Security get cut off the day after the state leaves the Union, I imagine the idea will lose any support it had.

        1. California sends more money to DC than they get back.

          1. So what? California is also broke. They are not going to have the money to replace those programs nor the economy of scale to make them work.

          2. Do they include the inordinate spent on IP protections that benefits CA more than other states?

          3. California sends more money to DC than they get back.

            No, they don’t.

            The government and government programs of California are a net drain on the federal government.

            That this is offset somewhat by individual and business taxation doesn’t change that fact.

            Because that money DOES NOT BELONG TO CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATS no matter what they might think.

          4. No. PEOPLE in California, at least the tax payers, send money to DC. Wanna poll the net federal taxpayers about their preferences?

    4. If Trump is reelected, Washington and Oregon and California will secede and form Leftopia. Conservatives will flee to Idaho, Nevada and Arizona.

      1. No they won’t. The President would federalize their National Guards and that would be the end of it. Read my post again.

        1. There won’t be any civil war. If 3 states vote and 60 percent of the residents want to leave, the negotiations (and lawsuits) will start.

          Trump may be literally Hitler, but he’s not literally Lincoln.

          1. First, that isn’t going to happen. Second, there would be no negotiations. Congress would never allow them to leave. We settled this issue in 1865, states can’t leave the union. Once the National Guards were federalized, the state governments would be replaced by governments that pledged to remain loyal and that would be it.

            States will not be allowed to leave the union unless a majority of both Congresses and the President agrees to it. And that isn’t going to happen any time. And it certainly won’t happen if Trump is President.

            You are fucking delusional.

            1. I’d say let them leave. But do it on a county by county basis.

              See how much LA loves life when their expenses for necessities like water skyrocket. See how LA loves life when agriculture stays in the US and water is redirected towards useful work.

              Slavery would have been very difficult to end if the Southern Senators and Reps did not leave the Congress. A lot of good could be done if the hyper leftie ones from LA, Portland, and Seattle also left. And no more fundraising involving them as they would be foreign entities.

              1. See how much LA loves life when their expenses for necessities like water skyrocket.

                Just imagine the residents of Bishop having an excuse to blow up the LA aqueduct without any federal repercussions, or the rest of the Colorado River basin states telling California to get fucked on getting their 4.5 million acre feet of water from the river each year.

                And everyone knows that, if these areas did secede, the first thing they’d do is become a colony of China.

                If secession did happen, the coast is going to find out for the first time since the Modoc wars what it’s like to live in an actual state of conflict.

      2. No Eastern states will secede. New York wants to control DC. The West Coast just wants DC to go away.

      3. No, the I-5 corridor might secede, but the rest of those states will tell the urban/college town cosmopolitans to get fucked, and would actively cheer Trump nuking those places from orbit.

        I don’t think you quite get how much the eastern part of those states absolutely loathes the coastal areas.

        1. Dude is higher than giraffe pussy. A big reason—in addition to the excellent ones already stated—is that the very first thing the People’s Republic of the Left Coast would do, is invite the Communist Chinese to be based there.

          That will not be allowed to happen. Vote of the citizens of those states or no vote.

    5. John Podesta is war gaming Blue states leaving the Union if Trump wins.

      Good luck with that, there are no ‘blue states’. Not a fucking one.

      There are blue cities, but a country made up of cities geographically isolated in a continuous blanket of adversaries isn’t going to last long.


    The Democrats don’t have to cheat in the casting of ballots. They simply don’t have to count the ballots at all. It’s quite clever and Professor Tribe, along with the US Postal Service provided the roadmap.

    Democrats will push mail-in ballots, for voter safety they say. As in it’s safe to attend John Lewis’s funeral without distancing but try that for your own family member’s funeral. The media will fan the flames with exaggerated case counts and deaths. Democrat governors will keep their subjects in fear with increasing mandates – masks, face shields, school and business shut-downs – such that everyone is afraid to leave their house for anything, including voting.

    The Postal Service will conveniently shut down, unable to deliver the ballots. If some post offices remain open, they will misplace or lose ballots. If ballots cannot be delivered, they cannot be counted. The election will not be decided, not on election night, not the next day, next week, next month.

    …Amidst the chaos, enough states won’t be able to certify their electoral votes and neither candidate will have a majority. Voila it will be up to Congress to decide, the Democrat controlled House choosing a president and the Senate choosing the irrelevant vice-president.

    1. That is exactly the plan. The problem is that the states run the election. I can see the Democrats getting mail in ballots in deep blue states. Since they are going to win those states anyway, what good would it do them?

      The other problem the Democrats have is that their hyping of COVID and the politicization of the issue is going to make their own supporters less likely to show up. Think about it, which group is more likely to make the effort and show up to vote, the group that is running around in masks terrified of catching the dreaded virus or the group refusing to wear masks and demanding life go back to normal? And of those two group, which group is more likely to support which candidate?

      1. Like Nevada, D governors control:
        North Carolina
        (Not to mention Washington and Oregon, which might otherwise go toward Trump this election)

        1. VA us going blue anyway. The other states have Republican controlled legislatures. I do not think the governors in those states can declare the election to be mail in without the consent of the legislature, which they won’t get.

          1. Whitmer can do whatever the fuck she wants in Michigan.

        2. Its worth mentioning that plenty of people stood in line in Wisconsin in March to vote out a conservative Supreme Court Judge. Mail in or not people in Wisconsin are ready to vote President Trump out.

      2. Here is another problem with the plan….masks. Democrats have been pushing this idea, pretty successfully, that masks are miracle germ shields yet when the election rolls around suddenly they won’t be good enough? Their master plan is foiled by the fact that they can never pass up a chance for any random opportunity to control if it doesn’t fit in with a long term strategy. Basically, they are dumb.

        1. Yeah. If wearing a mask and standing six feet apart is a miracle cure in the grocery store, why not voting? Also, if you are that afraid, you can also vote absentee. That option is always available. You just have to make an effort to do it.

          The Democrats are claiming that everyone should be forced to do it by mail. I don’t think that is going to fly with anyone to the right of and with a higher IQ than one of our resident leftist trolls, which is a large majority of the country.

    2. Thanks the the 25th amendment, the VP is not all that irrelevant.
      In that scenario, the (existing, Trump) cabinet punts the House Pres to the curb, and the Senates VP takes over.
      And the Senate can choose Trump.

      Welcome to the revolution.

      1. Interesting times.

    3. Doesn’t the house have to vote for someone who got at least one EC vote? Then again, the CA legislature can give CA’s votes to anyone they want if the votes didn’t get counted.

    4. Are they aware that the President would be decided by the House but one vote per state delegation…the GOP controls 27 of them.

      1. But the vote would be taken by the incoming Congress, not the current one.

    5. Or they could count all the ballots and win.

      You guys don’t get it. More people voting means GOP will never win again.

      Trump said that out loud, twice now.

      Just like he has now 3 times on 2 separate occasions wished Ghislane Maxwell well wishes. Really, he means it.

      1. Meanwhile Bill Clinton visited Epstein’s island when it was known there were underage girls there multiple times. Epstein is a Democratic scandal. Trump has nothing to do with it and all the lying in the world won’t change that.

        1. wahtabout whabout whatabout

          Bill Clinton!

          Who gives a fuck? Why is Trump repeatedly wishing a human traficker well? ‘Mooch says it is an obvious coded message. What does he know, he was only the spokesperson for Trump.

          1. “obvious coded message”

            DaVinci Code for credulous and slightly retarded progs.

      2. Just like he has now 3 times on 2 separate occasions wished Ghislane Maxwell well wishes.

        If he ever says “good luck” or “fare thee well” then you’ve got him.

      3. You know idiots keep saying this… but… 2016 had more votes than 2012.

        Do you wish to change your thesis? Or continue being ignorant? Maybe add percentage. Maybe realize your premise is wrong from the outset. Maybe realize even the guy who discussed the democratic demographic majority even walked back his primary points. Or be the good racist you are and think minorities will never change voting patterns.

        1. what does that have to do with Trump repeatedly going out of his way to wish a human trafficker whom he knows personally well?

          And after how fucking wrong all of your covid will go away predictions were, maybe you should eat a big ol’ piece of humble pie and shut the fuck up.

          1. Lying Jeffy wants her suicided.

    6. In California many counties have been mail in only for a few years now. the bad part is they admit that once the counts reach a certain threshold where “statisticaly” counting the rest would not change the outcome they quit counting. this makes it easy to say leave out certain right leaning counties from counting until they have reached the count they want. Votes do not count in California and I can easily see the feds doing something similar. They kind of do already even with in person voting.

      1. The feds don’t count votes. The states do.

      2. Are those the California counties that get 140% voter participation?

      3. Good boy, Ron. Keep repeating the talking points from federalist and breitbart. No one had any issue with absentee voting or 3 large states voting entirely by mail before, but now that the GOP has seen what will happen if more people vote, there is suddenly a lot of concern. Just another coincidence, I’m sure.

        1. Lying Jeffy doesn’t understand the difference between absentee ballots and having the states send ballots to everyone in the state!

          He’s really this dumb folks!

    7. If you think the vice president is irrelevant you haven’t been paying attention. Biden’s team is slow rolling that as long as they possibly can because whoever they pick is 95% likely to be POTUS before November 2021. Joe Biden isn’t mentally or physically well enough to stay in office.

    8. Irrelevant vice president? With Biden as president, VP is all that is relevant.

  30. a willful attempt to confuse Americans about how poorly we’re doing at controlling the new coronavirus compared to other countries.

    So ENB is still going with this narrative? It isn’t about ventilators, ICUs, or deaths now? At least not normalized numbers against populations? We’re going with infections are what counts? Is she even aware of the 2nd wave spikes in other countries? ironically one of the few countries not seeing a secondary spike is Sweden whose death rate has dropped to near zero.

    It’s almost like ENB doesn’t understand what flattening the curve meant, or how it prolongs the exposure and infection curves to avoid the spike.

    “Reason” has become such a joke on this topic.

    1. Trump really fumbled in that Axios interview. In the fall, our two major parties are giving us the choice between two doddering old men.

      1. Is your inference now that you are seeking Trump’s medical advice?

        1. That made no sense.

    2. I would love to see her school us on charts and how to interpret them.

      1. Unlike Trump, she probably acknowledges that per-capita rates are a legitimate type of statistical data, not FAKE MATH!!!

    3. America has been travel banned from the rest of the first world. Congratulations, red hat cultists. You finally got someone else to pay for that wall. Not an actual wall that we control, though. We just can’t leave the country for anywhere good anymore. Winning!

      1. Most of the “first world” is currently travel banned from the rest of the “first world”. The US is no exception.
        I, as a Canadian, can’t travel to Denmark, or Germany or the UK and they can’t travel here.

        You’re so amazingly dishonest all the time.

        1. And yet a Chinese citizen can now travel to more of the world than an American.


          1. Kinda like they could travel all over the world from Wuhan, except to the rest of China?

            Oh wait, that doesn’t matter because…Orange Man Bad!

          2. Not to your “first world” countries they can’t, you dishonest fuck.

            1. lol. Read something other than breitbart and reason comments.


      2. Irrational fear is irrational no matter the country dummy.

        1. Keep yelling at the clouds.

      3. America has been travel banned from the rest of the first world.

        What’s the problem?

        1. Some of us would rather see the world and do business instead of staying in your holler fucking your sister.

          1. I’m sure The White Knight will be along shortly to criticize you for saying Red Rocks fucks his sister, right, White Knight?

            1. He shouldn’t be rude.

              On the other hand, I know which clique on this comments board started the rudeness. It wasn’t De Oppresso Liber or chemjeff.

              1. By clique you mean cult? Because DOL and Lying Jeffy (I repeat myself) frequently tell people they’re in a cult. And suck Trump cock. But you know who started it? Cite?

                So what do you mean by rudeness? Because I find dishonesty more rude than being abrasive. Were you observing the first few conversations I had with Lying Jeffy were I learned he was dishonest?

                All this said: who the fuck do you think you are that you get to make these decisions? The Jacket?

          2. Keep your waterhead kid out of this, faggot.

            1. First I heard of a waterhead. Pretty funny.

              I will also point out to other commenters what Red Rocks is talking about, because it is truly vile.

              I, foolishly, revealed in a discussion with Cytotoxic that my wife and I had to end a pregnancy when the doctors found severe trisomy 18 in the fetus. This is probably the most traumatic experience of my wife’s life, and certainly not my favorite time either.

              1. Suddenly, going after relatives is bad now, huh? At least try coming up with something other than parroting your lefty boos’ hillbilly incest fetish.

                You know what the sad part is? That you’re actually self-absorbed enough to believe I saw some random conversation with Cytotoxic that you had at some unknown point on the past, pocketed the info, and have been waiting all this time to spring it on you for maximum emotional distress. You really think anyone other than maybe Tulpa gives enough of a shit about you to obsessively catalog years of your posts, let alone something you said to a guy that hasn’t been here in what, four or five years? Get over yourself.

                1. Dunno man. You were in that comment thread and it seemed kind of on the nose. Cyto is still here every now and again. This conversation was only a few months ago.

                  If that was a mistake, then I apologize.

                2. And it was cyto, not cytotoxic.

                  I apologize. Seems I’m being overly sensitive.

                  1. You don’t have anything to apologize for. This is Thunderdome and this is how the commenters have been fighting for years. I guarantee no one is going to remember this even a month from now other than Tulpa’s dumb ass.

                    1. right on

      4. Everything is so terrible and unfair.

        1. Pretty much a description of Trump’s twitter feed every Sunday evening.

  31. Trump doubles down on well-wishes for alleged sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell

    1. Crickets

      1. “I’ve met her numerous times over the years, especially since I lived in Palm Beach, and I guess they lived in Palm Beach. But I wish her well, whatever it is,”

        Amazing scandal! What a discovery!
        That’s way worse than all your party honchos banging kids on Epstein’s pedo island.

        If he ever says “Good luck”, you may have grounds for impeachment.

        1. But Clinton going to the island, repeatedly, leads to crickets.

        2. That was the first time he wished her well. He has now done it a second time. Very, very odd.

          Try to keep up.

          1. “iTS a seKrET coDe, PEOplE!!!1!”

            1. It’s pretty fucking weird. I’m sure you’d feel the same if it was anyone else doing it.

              1. Lying Jeffy wants her to get suicided so his daddy’s can invite him to their Christmas parties.

    2. Is the insinuation here that Maxwell has some really good dirt on Trump, but if Trump just asks really really really nicely, she’s going to protect him no matter what the mean prosecutors threaten her with? This makes sense in your head?

      1. Yes it does. He really is that stupid.

        1. If anything, I imagine Trump is hoping for the best for her because he thinks (like everyone) that she might have some awful dirt on some very powerful enemies of Trump.

          1. Yeah, seems to me he was wishing her well in not getting suicided. And as usual, his joke goes over the head of those with TDS.

            1. R Mac got xir’s new Trump decoder ring!

              1. “seems to me”

                It’s funny how bad your reading comprehension gets as your TDS worsens.

  32. Democrat uses his privilege to get limited lottery based camping passes on 4th of July weekend.

    1. I’m sorry, but that is an example of a news story that really is “too local”.

      1. Local story. Yosemite National Park is exactly the same as the George M. Long Park in Akron OH.

      2. He is a federal member. Or did you miss that part? Or is corruption only nefarious when a republican?

        You are actually white knighting government corruption now lol.

        1. Also too local:

          “A Saturday filing with the Missouri Ethics Commission revealed the donation made directly from Soros to the Missouri Justice and Public Safety PAC – for which Soros is the only donor so far. The PAC has already spent at least $104,393 – including $77,804 directly on Gardner, and a payoff of accumulated debt. Of note, Gardner has a primary this Tuesday.

          Soros spokesman Michael Vachon told Just The News that Soros has made no secret that he supports prosecutors like Gardner for criminal justice reform.

          Gardner slapped charges on personal injury lawyers Mark McCloskey, 63, and his wife Patricia, 61, who armed themselves and stood outside their mansion as a group of roughly 100 protesters broke down a gate to march down their private road.”

        2. Right, white knighting for government corruption is what I’m doing.

          I’m laughing at digging up stories, no matter how local, that support a narrative that Democrats are especially corrupt.

    2. If that really was a display of corruption big enough to bother mentioning on the national news, we would be living in the closest thing to utopia that I can imagine.

  33. Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism: And Other Arguments for Economic Independence

    1. To be fair, under socialism men get fucked too.

      1. Best “to be fair” ever

    2. Socialist double speak: Economic independence = 100% dependence on federal government.

    3. Except it’s entirely untrue. The men all become alcoholics, as in the former USSR.

  34. CDC Director:

    “I think you’re correct in that we’ve seen this in other disease processes, too. Really, in the HIV epidemic, somebody may have a heart attack but also have HIV — the hospital would prefer the [classification] for HIV because there’s greater reimbursement,” Redfield said during a House panel hearing Friday when asked by Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer about potential “perverse incentives.”

    Redfield continued: “So, I do think there’s some reality to that. When it comes to death reporting, though, ultimately, it’s how the physician defines it in the death certificate, and … we review all of those death certificates. So I think, probably it is less operable in the cause of death, although I won’t say there are not some cases. I do think though [that] when it comes to hospital reimbursement issues or individuals that get discharged, there could be some play in that for sure.”

    1. Jesse cracked it!

      It’s not fat ass ill educated Americans being told to not take precautions by their favorite populist politicians, or firing the pandemic response team that we spent $100 million setting up and staffing, or a national leadership that was obviously more concerned with the effects on their reelection campaign.

      No, it’s hospital reporting! Yeah, I know right? Who knew that hospital reporting could cause morgue overflows in NY city or Miami? Oh, wait. We’re being told that the cases in NY were real because of the Democrats there bungling it. But cases everywhere with a GOP governor are fake! Stick to the facts, people!

      Latch on to it tight!

      1. Can you cite these morgue “overflows”?

      2. DOL going full commie-tard has been the best event of 2020 so far.

      3. Morgues overflow all the time. It’s not even news. Why would Hospitals build morgues much larger than they need on a regular basis? Add into that as hospitals grow and shrink the growing ones naturally outstrip their capacities in all kinds of ways.

      4. “……being told to not take precautions……”

        God damn, you need so badly to be lead. Pathetic.

        1. I don’t. I saw this coming a mile off. That’s why my portfolio is positive for the year instead of trying to get back to flat like the rest of SP500 holding suckers.

          But clearly the ignorant masses do. Have you not seen the protests against mask wearing? What could be more ignorant? Supporting a conman reality TV host for president?

          1. You saw questionable hospital reporting and made money in the market from it? That’s actually impressive! Just curious if you could share some of the investments you made?

            1. Went all to cash on Jan 29, then went back into a bunch of stuff starting around April. Would have gone short if I had a better broker at that time. TSLA, AMZN, GOOG, GLD, EURN, SPY are the big parts. Currently long on all of those except TSLA and additionally long on SLV and DBX. Will probably sell off most if it looks like no new corona relief deal by end of week.

              I’m not kidding. I don’t have a crystal ball, but I do have a business with a global supply chain, a finance degree, and have been managing my own retirement account since 2008. Year to date I’m up a little under 23%, but my risk tolerance is high, and I use options and futures occasionally.

              I talk a lot of shit on here, but I’m all for you guys and Americans in general making some money for retirement.

              1. How did this relate to questions about hospital reporting?

                1. The dumping of equities was triggered by an Italian news report; there was no hospital reporting yet. But I never said hospital reporting, and once again you have missed the important information, which might make you some money, in order to score a point that is only tallied in your head.

                  1. This thread was about hospitals reporting of Covid. Nobody mentioned investments until you did. But if you needed to feel good by mentioning your investment success, so be it.

          2. Oh, I get it. You’re above it all, but oh so concerned about what the “fat ass ill educated Americans” are told to do by “leaders”?

            If just one fat ass life can be saved, amirite?

            Haha. What a doosh.

            1. Yeah, the mean words here are the problem, not the conman leading you rubes to death and ruin.

              1. Haha. No. You’re doing great, but worried about the “ill educated” people who can’t make choices for themselves without a “leader” cheerleading them in the right direction. How condescending can ya get?

                Oh, and nobody is “leading” me “to ruin”. What a drama queen. And such concern for the “rubes”! Outstanding!

                Don’t change a thing, Oppresso. You’re doing great!

            2. Leave sarcasmic out of it!

              1. Err, I meant Jeff. Sigh.

  35. I am wondering who that mailer would appeal to. Very few people like child molesters, and very few people like Hitler comparisons.

    1. They’re just trying to create a negative association in people’s minds.

      I subleased office space from a guy who was on the city council. One election cycle, they mailed a photo of him with a drunken expression on his face taking a piss down the storm drain.

      A lot of times, they’re just trying to create negative associations in people’s minds, but, yeah, who wants their kids to check the mailbox and see that? You’d think that flyer would just make voters mad at whomever sent it to them.

      A lot of times in local government, it’s just personal, too. They’ve hated the guy in office since they were in high school together, and now that he’s running for election and vulnerable to embarrassment, they decide to send shit like that out just to embarrass people.

      That jackass federal prosecutor who came after commenters here however many years ago–from the southern district of New York for saying innocuous shit? I’d compare him to Hitler all day just to rail on him. That guy sucks donkey dicks. If he were running for office, people here might go out of their way to tell everyone in his district that he’s literally Hitler.

  36. Kerr expressed remorse over not backing Morey, who unleashed a firestorm after tweeting support for pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong. “I handled it really poorly,” Kerr said. “I was frankly sort of tongue tied. I’m sitting there trying to figure out what I’m supposed to say to make sure I don’t put the league in jeopardy but also trying to find the right balance and I realize it was probably the one time over the years when I haven’t just spoken my heart and I sort of got caught in this political hail storm. It was very uncomfortable because it wasn’t a topic I was very comfortable with and the circumstances were really strange.” … Kerr then was asked what he would do differently if given the chance. “Well I would first of all back up Daryl,” he said. “I would just say Daryl, has a right, as an American, to free speech. He can say anything he wants and we should support him in that and that’s the main message. And then if you want to get into the depths of a really complex issue (chuckles) then you can have a conversation.

    NBA is slowly losing the narrative with their quiet bowing to China. Amazing what

    1. Good for Kerr. I have always liked him and was very sad to see him roll over like that. I think Kerr is a decent guy who allowed himself to be bullied by his bosses into taking a really stupid position. Not good but at least he admits he was wrong.

      The guy in the NBA who I always liked but has turned out to be a complete jackass is Greg Popovich. My God is he a virtue signaling jackwagon.

      1. He’s insufferable. And Lebron too.

        Kerr is the sort of guy I can tell he’s decent but man get a spine already. Something tells me he’s conflicted as he probably knows the NBA is actually wrong with its relationship with China. Just a hunch.

    2. Politicizing this or any other league can’t help but cut the size of the audience in the U.S.

      There are more people who watch the NBA in China than there are American citizens.

      If they lose tens of millions of viewers in the United States because they kowtow to Emperor Xi, that’s nothing compared to the hundreds of millions of viewers they’d lose by not kowtowing to Emperor Xi.

      They’ll quibble about this or that, but judging by their actions, they don’t give a shit about patriotic Americans.

      So fuck ’em.

      Watch hockey instead!

      Even when American teams go to Canada, they sing our national anthem, too, out of respect and the Canadian sense of fairness. The fans are generally respectful of our national anthem up there, too–with some rare exceptions in Montreal, but then some Habs fans aren’t respectful of anything. It comes with the scenery.

    3. >>Kerr expressed remorse over not backing Morey,

      Fuck you Kerr you had your chance to be a man. Now you’re a politician. Wear it.

    4. So Kerr is supporting his right to speak. Good for him. I really enjoy kerrs blatent approval of what China is doing… As long as they keep paying him

  37. DeBlasio admits that he gives preferrential treatment to BLM:

    “That is something that again transcends all normal realities because we are at a moment of history when that had to be said and done, that’s a decision I made,” de Blasio said.

    “But the normal process continues for anyone who wants to apply,” he added.

    Wonder why this was ignored here…

    1. You can always start your own website and magazine, instead of trying to run Reason’s from the comment section.

      1. Ironic coming from a fifty-center.
        You should suggest that to your own manager, too.

      2. Why would free speech issues be on a libertarian blog! White Knight to the rescue!

        1. Suggesting someone start a website and/or magazine IS promoting free speech.

  38. How the media might blow the election. A massive increase in mail-in voting due to the COVID-19 pandemic will mean election result delays that could drag on for weeks. That leaves a lot of time for media-driven mishaps and more, warns Ben Smith at The New York Times:

    How is this “blowing” the election? And what’s with the “media mishaps”? They might accidentally disclose that Donald Trump is the clear winner? The media are counting on the voting to be one unholy mess so that the counting and re-counting and the lawsuits and counter-suits drag on for months and their going to be feeding that narrative for all it’s worth – that nobody knows how the hell the election turned out.

    What is certain is that, come January, it ain’t Donald Trump that’s President and the House gets to pick who’s Acting President. That’s the whole aim of this farcical “election”, get rid of Trump by any means necessary. The only way we’re going to stop this crap is by putting the GOP back in charge of the House, and I haven’t heard anybody suggesting that’s even a remote possibility. It will be odd to see that this same election is going to be pretty goddamn clear on re-electing all those incumbent Congresscritters even as the Presidential vote will be clear as mud. Maybe if we’re suing over whether or not the Presidential vote was settled, there should be some suits over whether or not all of the other elections were settled. If Donald Trump’s re-election is in dispute, why not Nancy Pelosi’s?

    1. The thing is that the election is controlled by the states. And the real election that counts is in December when the electors meet. And the electors are chosen by the States. Yes, they have an election to determine that decision but it is the state governments not the election who has the ultimate say. So, the only way that the scenario you give could play out is if enough states are unable to declare a winner and pick their electors to give one candidate or the other victory.

      I think that is unlikely. First, the Republicans have 26 of the 50 governor seats and 29 of the 50 state legislatures. This includes the legislatures in places like Ohio and Pennsylvania as well as Florida, North Carolina and most of the other battleground states. So, I don’t think the Democrats have the power at the state level to keep the election from happening and from enough states to pick their electors to keep Trump from being Re-elected if he in fact wins the votes necessary to do so.

    2. It’s almost like establishment political figures see Trump as a massive threat

      Wonder why that might be…

      1. Well, some of it is because he’s a flaky moron.

        1. Only in comparison to the laser sharp and nimble mind of Biden.

        2. And a good bit of it is a result of pissing off smug shits like you.

        3. Neat how you instantly identified with “establishment political figures”.

          1. It is amazing watching WK lose the narrative he tried to form when he created that sock. That he was defending against ad hominems and such. And now he is basically only using those forms of attacks. Pretty damn hilarious.

            1. I didn’t mean I wouldn’t make attacks against the incompetent boob of a President we have. Or other politicians and public figures. I meant I wouldn’t initiate ad hominem attacks on other commenters.

              If I criticize the President and some commenter here feels that is a personal slam, that person needs to question why they have such a strong identification with the President.

            2. And if we are talking about you specifically, JesseAz, you were absolutely the one who acted like an asshole toward me before I said anything back.

    3. I think blowing the election could be about riots and such–and that could go either way.

      If Trump loses in some kind of hanging chad mess like we in Florida between Bush Jr. and Gore, I wouldn’t expect that to go over as well this time as it did in 2000.

      Do anyone imagine there’s anything about the social justice progressives that control the Democrat party that’s about to bring us all together as a nation? Does anyone imagine that Joe Biden has the kind of charisma necessary to unify us after his inauguration?

      I expect a shit show either way–even if the results aren’t contested.

      1. “Does anyone imagine that Joe Biden has the kind of charisma necessary to unify us after his inauguration?”
        That’s basically what George Will was saying in his column last week. The Never-Trumpers sure hope (or will mendaciously tell you) that Biden is a moderate and uniting force.

        1. Joe Biden has no backbone.

          The Green New Deal and achieving a carbon free energy generation economy will be the center of his first 100 days in office. He’s already campaigning on it–so how can he be a unifying force?!

          Joe Biden will be run over by the social justice warriors and outright socialists in Congress.

        2. Trump definitely does not. Most of the country hates him. Not dislikes him. Hates him. If there is another giant popular vote loss and EC victory, not even out and out cheating (although there will be), that could very well be end of this republic.

            1. He hasn’t seen the boat parade videos

            2. wow if this is true… it’s gonna be another shock to the system for Democrats. I knew he was at all time highs in terms of approval ratings from black voters but I thought it was about 20%. Over 50% is insane!

              It also means the media narrative has become even MORE divorced from reality than in 2016. Even I’m struggling to believe this 50% poll and I don’t believe the lying liars in the media but still… 50% is wild.

            3. So you guys like polls now? Cool.

              Here’s a bunch of polls and some aggregations of polls. Dig in!


              1. Now show them Dewey vs. Truman since your going historic.

                1. Aw, you don’t like polls now?

        3. Remember, the words “What a brilliant thought by George Will” has never been uttered once in history. There is a reason.

          I love that the GOP will never listen to milquetoast losers like him ever again.

          1. He’s a traitor because he said bad things about Dear Leader.

      2. And the reason it won’t go over like 2000? Trump. Trump is the reason everyone is fearful about this upcoming election.

        The president himself saying he won’t respect the election, and you goons are still coming here dropping pjmedia clips about antifa shoplifting from hard working white americans.

        1. Respect an election… like 2016?

          1. Yeah, like when Hillary immediately conceded, because that is what preserves the republic.

            You utter fascist.

            1. Holy shit.

                1. TDS continues to rob you of your understanding of words. Immediately now means the next day. It’s all very convenient.

    4. If Donald Trump’s re-election is in dispute, why not Nancy Pelosi’s?

      Well, To be perfectly fair, Pelosi’s re-election probably isn’t actually in dispute.

      Elsewhere in the country, though, there are elections that turned on boxes of mail in ballots “being discovered”.

  39. “Tennesseans for Sensible Election Laws” sounds like it was named by the same people who push “common sense” gun laws.

    Common sense says that, “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1”.

    If the election law in question punishes something that average people ultimately do in every political conversation if the conversation lasts long enough, then there isn’t anything “sensible” about it.

    P.S. wood chippers.

    1. If you say woodchipper 3 times in a mirror, Preet will be summoned.

    2. Their offices are right next the Committee on Public Safety I believe

  40. “When they tell you a bill does X, it almost certainly doesn’t. And they almost certainly didn’t read the bill. Nor did their staff. But they’ll get away with it. Because you want to believe it. And because you heard the same thing from the media, who also didn’t read the bill.”

    So ENB is trying to hoodwink the country?

    1. You can input the word ‘masks’ as a replacement to a bill.

      They have no idea if masks actually work. It’s a shot in the dark based on some positive research. Their staff are just as clueless. But people want to believe a mouth diaper will stop a virus so small it’s basically vapour. Corona viruses don’t go away. So how long before the clueless and the fearful realize this?

      And I find it amazing they’re hanging their hopes on a vaccine for a virus we’ve never had a vaccine before. A vaccine could come soon but its safety and effectiveness is still a few years away I would think.

      So are all these morons going to ‘mask up’ indefinitely?

      It’s absurd to irrational levels.

      1. A vaccine could come soon but its safety and effectiveness is still a few years away I would think.

        So are all these morons going to ‘mask up’ indefinitely?

        I am starting to think that some of them will. The thing about a vaccine is that it will take a while to vaccinate everyone. And then the vaccine won’t take with some people. Those things are enough of a figleaf for a lot of these morons to then claim a vaccine doesn’t change anything.

        The truth is that a vaccine would be given to high risk people and healthcare providers first and very quickly bring the death rate from this stuff to zero. Not everyone would need to be vaccinated to bring life back to normal. We know who the vaccine is likely to kill and that it is almost certain to be at worst a mild flu for the large majority of the public. So, this is one virus that a vaccine will solve very quickly.

        But try explaining that to these lunatics. These people are drunk on conformity and virtue signaling.

        1. I’m cheering for the vaccine to come for that reason. It’ll mostly shut people up and will likely jolt the non-lunatics back into place.

          I’m not convinced of all this conspiracy stuff about mandatory vaccines and chips. It could happen but your scenario is the more likely one. Plenty of money to be made without resorting to mandatory rules. I hope.

          I’m praying the majority of people will say, ‘Phew. There’s a vaccine. Let’s move on and party.’

          But until at least November expect more retardation and Lucky the Leprechaun Fauci should knock it off with his doomsday bull shit.

          He’s doing a lot of unnecessary damage. Particularly considering the fact his public stance doesn’t jive with what he has published.

          Something stinks.

          1. And by the way, the flu vaccines are, what, 10%-30% effective in any given season? What are the odds a vaccine for a coronavirus matches that?

            1. They are only 20% effective because they only cover the worst 20% of the flu viruses out there. They are like 80% or 90% effective on the viruses they do target. In this case, they only have to stop one virus, so the number should be closer to 80 than 20.

              The other thing is that what you lack in quality you can make up for in quantity. Let’s say it is only 50% effective. If you can give it to enough people, you can achieve some form of herd immunity pretty quickly.

              1. Good.

                I still would have done what Sweden did.

          2. we don’t beat cold viruses with vaccines.

        2. I remember from back when the kids were in school, there might be bulletins like “20% of the students were out sick today. There seems to be a flu bug going around. Please keep your student home if he or she isn’t feeling well.” Going forward, it’s going to be:
          “Omigosh, Connor sneezed in school today. Thus, from an abundance of caution, we are closing down the school for three weeks and until the sanitation disaster recovery team can thoroughly clean every surface in the school complex.”

          1. There has been pretty conclusive evidence for months now that people without symptoms are unlikely to spread the virus. The whole thing could be solved today by getting people to take their temperature and not leave their homes if they have a fever. Instead of masks, they could just check temperatures of people entering public buildings and likely solve most of the problem.

            The other thing is that the virus is spread by close personal contact and primarily indoors. So, the last thing we should be doing is closing down parks and beaches to people who are not suffering symptoms. Instead, we close everything and lock people in their homes to stop a virus that transmits primarily indoors. Yeah, that makes sense.

            1. As per the WHO in their June briefing, the cluster theory is only really strongly within homes. Other places like gyms and outdoor gatherings demand further research.

              Same with asymptomatic spreaders. They concluded more research is needed. That was after they said they weren’t major spreaders but had to backtrack for some reason because of a backlash from…I’m not even sure who. You would think people would be happy.

              Instead, one of the basis of a mask mandates is for asymptomatic people to ‘stop spreading’ and ‘save lives’. Assholes, as chemjeff calls them. Despite it not being empirically proven.

              Which left us with irresponsible and stupid statements by Dr. Arruda here in Quebec who said if you’re asymptomatic and don’t wear a mask you’re responsible for the death of others.

              ZERO facts to back this grotesque claim. This from a guy who just a month earlier correctly explained why masks suck.


              That’s why I’m skeptical and even suspicious by all this. I also notice all of a sudden mask companies able to take out billboard ads. That shit is expensive. They’re already rolling in that much dough?


              The preponderance of evidence, quite a lot, shows that there is contagion without symptoms.

              In an evolving viral outbreak, you don’t wait for conclusive to take precautions.

              Outdoors does seem pretty safe.

              1. No it doesn’t. It says such transmission is possible. But the paper admits that there is no evidence that it transmits at the same rate or even what the two rates are.

                You need to understand that you have a low IQ and really are not capable of understanding much. So, stop posting things you don’t understand.

                1. I notice a lot of journalists linking to articles purporting to support their claims but when you read the studies closely they really don’t. Makes me wonder if they actually read them or know how to read the literature.

                  1. Whether they read them or not is irrelevant–they’re counting on idiots like DOL to spread the article through social media and signal-boost the propaganda so that it becomes conventional wisdom.

                    The average person isn’t as anal as John and would rather be told what to think than read the sources themselves.

                2. Yeah, Lying Jeffy is almost as dumb as he is dishonest.

                3. Epidemiologic Evidence

                  Most reports of presymptomatic (9–12), asymptomatic (13–15), or a combination of presymptomatic or asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 transmission (16,17) were from China (Table 1). Presymptomatic or asymptomatic primary patients were typically exposed to SARS-CoV-2 during travel from Wuhan or another city in Hubei Province, China (9–16). One couple was exposed during a mass gathering in Shanghai for the Chinese Spring Festival (17). Reported cases of infected persons who transmitted the virus to others while presymptomatic or asymptomatic have occurred within families or households (9–11,13–17), during shared meals (10,12), or during visits with hospitalized family members (9,13). An inherent confounder to these reports from China is the inability to entirely rule out alternative SARS-CoV-2 exposure in the community early in the outbreak, when transmission in the community may have been undetected.

                  However, cases of presymptomatic transmission have been reported from other countries before widespread community transmission occurred. A report from Germany documented infection of a German businessman after exposure to a mildly symptomatic colleague visiting from China (18). Before becoming symptomatic, this businessman exposed 2 other colleagues who subsequently received a COVID-19 diagnosis but did not have contact with the primary patient from China or any other known source. A report from Singapore described 7 COVID-19 clusters resulting from presymptomatic transmission; presymptomatic primary patients varied from persons with travel from high-incidence countries to persons exposed in the local community (19). All primary patients experienced distinct periods of initial exposure and presymptomatic close contact with secondary patients who had no other known exposure risks. The incubation periods for presymptomatic primary patients with distinct exposures ranged from 3 to 11 days; for presymptomatic primary patients with travel history to an area with active transmission, the time from last exposure to symptom onset ranged from >2 to >9 days.
                  Virologic Evidence

                  Currently, SARS-CoV-2 infection is primarily diagnosed by detection of viral RNA via reverse transcription PCR (RT-PCR) or by viral culture and demonstration of cytopathic effect (20). Although RT-PCR identifies viral RNA and cannot determine whether infectious virus is present, infectiousness can be inferred from cycle threshold (Ct) values. The RT-PCR Ct value represents the number of PCR cycles required to detect SARS-CoV-2 RNA; lower values indicate higher viral load and imply higher infectiousness (20–22). The exact RT-PCR Ct values associated with the presence of infectious SARS-CoV-2 is unknown, but infectious virus has been isolated from a specimen with an RT-PCR Ct of 34 (23).

                  Four reports documented the presence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA with lower Ct values in samples collected from persons in whom symptoms of COVID-19 never developed (24–27) (Table 2). Two reports described specimens with low RT-PCR Ct values among presymptomatic and asymptomatic residents of a nursing home identified as part of the same outbreak investigation (23,28). Among these reports, RT-PCR Ct values for SARS-CoV-2 RNA in asymptomatically infected persons ranged from 14 to 40 (23–27). The study with data on presymptomatic infected patients reported an average RT-PCR Ct value of 24 (range 15–38) (23). Two reports described culture of infectious virus from persons with asymptomatic (24) and presymptomatic (23) SARS-CoV-2 infection. Although these reports did not identify actual virus transmission while presymptomatic or asymptomatic, the low RT-PCR Ct values (i.e., high viral load) and ability to isolate infectious SARS-CoV-2 provide plausible virologic evidence for SARS-CoV-2 transmission by persons not demonstrating symptoms.

                4. Read the fucking thing.

                  The irony of any of you cultists talking about IQ.

                  1. “cultists”

                    Hmm, why do the same handful of people call everyone else on the site cultists all the time?

                    1. Probably because people around the world have taken note of the Trump cult and written studies and books about it. Really. From the outside, ya’ll are fascinating.


                    2. Again, you missed the important info for the cheap point scoring attempt.

                      Be better.

                    3. Without reading it, what role in the cult do people that voted for Gay Jay play? Because if I dont get to fuck Milania before I’m sacrificed, I’m out.

                      Also, you should really consult a thesaurus. Cult doesn’t mean what you think it means. And you sound stupid every time you misuse it. Even if it gives you a chubby.

              2. In an evolving viral outbreak, you don’t wait for conclusive to take precautions.

                That is completely unscientific. You do realize that what has been done this year has never been done before in US history. There is no playbook for an ‘evolving viral outbreak’ on such a scale other than fictional depictions in movies. I realize that you have trouble differentiating between fantasy and reality, but please try.

                1. Haha. Yeah, and “precautions” can be anything from stay home if you’re sick to shutting down 40 million jobs.

                  Taking “precautions” is prudent, I suppose.

        3. “and very quickly bring the death rate from this stuff to zero.”

          One of the latest talking points I’ve seen is that the death rate doesn’t matter because of long term effects. I wish I was making that up, but something that IS less dangerous than the common flu is worth destroying the economy and society as a whole. Because Trump I guess

          1. GRR. *Less was supposed to be emphasized

          2. Yeah, they are never going to give it up. This has gotten terrifying.

      2. It’s only irrational if you believe their stated intentions

  41. “.@jonathanvswan: “Oh, you’re doing death as a proportion of cases. I’m talking about death as a proportion of population. That’s where the U.S. is really bad. Much worse than South Korea, Germany, etc.”@realdonaldtrump: “You can’t do that.”

    Swan: “Why can’t I do that?”

    — Axios (@axios) August 4, 2020″

    Semantic objections to police are fascinating to some people, I’m sure.

    Meanwhile, what exactly is being alleged here?

    Are we saying that President Trump should be criticized for COVID-19 because he didn’t institute national lock-down orders and do so for an extended period of time?

    Maybe you think President Trump should be criticized because he should have imposed stricter travel restrictions?

    Maybe you think he should have forced manufacturers to stop building cars and start manufacturing ventilators more than he did?

    Maybe you just don’t like the way he held his press conferences and tweeted about things–and if he’d tweeted things differently, we could have saved more lives?

    I think Trump’s critics should be more specific about their criticism. Otherwise, it just seems like they’re criticizing President Trump because there’s an election in three months. And that’s not really a valid basis for criticism.

    1. “Semantic objections to police [policy] are fascinating to some people, I’m sure.”

      —-Ken Shultz


      1. I dunno, I kinda liked the original.

    2. Did you watch the interview Ken? It was quite fascinating.

      Trump wants to look at the death rate as measured by proportion of cases. This number makes him look good.

      Swan wants to look at the death rate as measured by proportion of citizens. This number doesn’t make Trump look good.

      The first death rate is associated with how well the health care system treats already infected people. The second death rate is associated with how well the public health system deals with the spread of the disease in the first place.

      I don’t think anyone seriously doubts that our health care system is overall pretty competent in dealing with already infected people. So it’s no surprise that this first death rate, the one Trump likes to talk about, is pretty low. The real issue here is the second death rate, because it illustrates how much “public health measures” in this country are a complete joke. Trump doesn’t want to own up to this, and moreover, he will push HIS version of “death rate” as the only legitimate one that matters and if you disagree with him it’s because you’re acting in bad faith. Now I see why right-wingers like him so much. He’s just like them – closed-minded and stubborn.

      1. So you’re not making any criticisms of his policies–only the way he counts things?

        For the tenth time, your feelings are only important to you, ChemJeff.

        The way things are counted doesn’t change anything in the real world, and hearing how you feel about that doesn’t change anything either.

        The question is what should Trump have done differently–and you get no extra credit for naming something he should have done that was more libertarian and would have resulted in fewer deaths. That’s the fucking assignment. Telling us how you feel gets you a zero.

        1. Early on Trump said:

          1) This is like a flu merely echoing Fauci. The friction between the two began when Fauci was sending mixed messages and Trump being an instinctive businessman probably started the process of distancing himself from Fauci. It’s worth noting pandemics are the CDC’s job and the Governors control policy in their States. Not the Executive.

          2) When it was spreading, he called to shut down air travel from Iran but found resistance from the usual suspect – media and the DNC. Pelosi went to Chinatown to make her point. In Italy, there was a ‘Hug a Chinese’ campaign to thwart anti-Chinese sentiment. Like in Canada with Trudeau and Dr. Tam, shutting down travel was seen as racist.

          3) The Guardian recently published an article showing Trump was suggesting NY lockdown and Cuomo basically scoffing it off in a press conference.

          Food for thought.

          1. It’s especially galling coming from libertarians.

            I understand if authoritarian progressives think he should have used the coercive power of government to shut everything down nationally.

            I don’t understand libertarians criticizing him for being insufficiently authoritarian, and I think the TDS victims are even sensitive to that–so they talk about the way things are counted.

            P.S. Incidentally, if we’re talking about deaths as a proportion of the population relative to deaths as a proportion of the infected, we really are talking about two different qualitative criteria. One might be more about how effective our treatment of the infected has been and another might be more about our ability to lower the rate of infection. Regardless, we’re still talking about the same outcomes. If people think the outcome should have been better than it was, then they should point to the policy that made things worse than they could have been.

            Maybe they wanted the economy shut down!

            If that’s what they think, then they should say so. Don’t give us a tweet taking issue with the president on semantics that has nothing to do with policy.

            Person A: “Can I use your bathroom?”

            Person B: “I don’t know. Can you?!”

            This is the intellectual equivalent of that tweet. It has nothing to do with policy criticism or changing anything substantial

            1. P.S. Incidentally, if we’re talking about deaths as a proportion of the population relative to deaths as a proportion of the infected, we really are talking about two different qualitative criteria. One might be more about how effective our treatment of the infected has been and another might be more about our ability to lower the rate of infection.

              Which is what I fucking said at the beginning. Thanks for finally acknowledging that.

              And Swan was asking Trump to reflect upon that second statistic. He refused to do so and instead berated Swan for even presenting it to him. Trump didn’t even understand what he was being asked to do here. “Fake news presenting lying numbers!” He can’t get beyond that level of lizard-brain thinking.

              1. “Which is what I fucking said at the beginning.”

                Gee, your criticism was non-criticism from the very beginning. Who knew?!

                Well, I did, of course, which is why criticize the way he counts things–as if changing that had some impact on the number of people who were infected or died.

                So what is your criticism of Trump’s policies apart from the way he counts things–or are you taking this opportunity to thoroughly endorse President Trump’s handling of COVID-19 and the economy?

                1. Look at Ken dance. Dance, boy, dance!

                  Whatever you do, don’t you dare acknowledge the whole latter half of jeff’s argument. There is no response to it, so put those blinders up high.

                  1. What is your criticism of Trump’s policies?

                    What do you think he should have done differently so that there wouldn’t have been as many deaths–no matter how you count them?

                    Are you advocating harsher lockdowns that last longer?

                    Go ahead. I keep daring people to criticize Trump’s policies, and all I hear is crickets.

                    1. Dance harder.

                      Make sure you never address Trump’s inability to or purposeful deception that he can’t understand the stats.

            2. “Person A: “Can I use your bathroom?”

              Person B: “I don’t know. Can you?!”

              You know this is the type of shit Lying Jeffy said when he was a teenager, if he still doesn’t.

        2. Ken, in the context of the current discussion, “how he counts things” IS the relevant point of contention.

          The way things are counted doesn’t change anything in the real world, and hearing how you feel about that doesn’t change anything either.

          The way things are counted changes the perception of Trump’s success or lack thereof. That’s the point here. Why do you think Trump isn’t trying to do some electioneering here by singling out statistics that make him look good and criticizing equally valid statistics that don’t make him look good? Why should we assume that Trump is acting in good faith here and that people like Jonathan Swan are not?

          I would expect an *actual leader* to say something like, “Well, we have had some successes in some areas, but we have more work to do in other areas” – but that type of self-reflection is impossible for a narcissist like Trump. He will never admit he could have done things better or differently. That would be admitting that Trump in the Past did something wrong, and he will never admit he was ever wrong about anything.

          Even if you legitimately think that Trump did everything exactly right, then at least own up to the results that ensued. If your argument is “150,000 dead is the price we pay for freedom” then have the balls to actually say that.

          1. He should’ve told psychotics like you to go to hell, because too many people have already suffered to satiate your fat, stupid, cowardly ass

          2. “Ken, in the context of the current discussion, “how he counts things” IS the relevant point of contention.”

            The numbers are the same regardless–the only question is what qualitative aspect you want to emphasize.

            Don’t you have any criticism of Trump’s policies–that if he’d done x, y, or z differently, there wouldn’t have been any deaths?!

            1. “Don’t you have any criticism of Trump’s policies–that if he’d done x, y, or z differently, there wouldn’t have been any [as many] deaths?!”

              —-Ken Shultz


              1. Well, clearly he shouldn’t have ordered Fredos brother to put all those sick folks in nursing homes. Heartless bastard.

      2. Trump wants to look at the death rate as measured by proportion of cases. This number makes him look good.

        The death rate should be measured by the proportion of cases. That is the actual death rate. The fact that it makes Trump look good or bad is irrelevant. That your only objection to it is that it makes Trump look good just proves Ken’s point.

        Swan wants to look at the death rate as measured by proportion of citizens. This number doesn’t make Trump look good.

        Actually it does. The US death rate is quite low compared to other western nations. Moreover, to the extent that it is higher, it is higher because the states of New York and New Jersey forced COVID patients into their nursing homes. Those two states between them have a total of over 47,000 deaths out of a total of 155,000 deaths in the nation as a whole. Nearly one third of the deaths are from two states and the result of policies implemented by Democratic governors that Trump had nothing to do with.

        Those two states have a population of around 27 million people. So, if you take the rest of the country of 328 million minus that 27 million and divide it by the 108,0000 deaths that occurred outside of those two states you end up with one death for every 2,800 people in the US or 360 deaths per million people. And that puts the US well ahead of most of Europe.

        Swan is trying to pin blame for the states of New York and New Jersey murdering it’s nursing home residents on Trump.

        1. Jesse math! New and improved!

          1. You have a low IQ and can’t do basic division. We know that. You are dumb as a fucking post Jeff. Your only response to actual facts and argument is to emote. You really don’t even qualify as a human being. You are some kind of low intelligence sub species or mutation.

            1. Hell, Cuomo…who had more deaths than numerous countries…handled it “right” per the media. And Fauci.

            2. Go ahead guys. Go ahead and convince yourselves that:

              You are better at epidemiology than the world’s supply of epidemiologists.

              You are better at statistics than the best statisticians in the world.

              You and you only can decipher what Trump really means when he says something traitorous, fascist, or dumb.

              Trump and the GOP are fiscally responsible while the run the largest deficits in history, and the largest with no war or crisis even before covid.

              Convince yourselves that the rest of us don’t see right the fuck through you to your racist little black heart.

              1. Here’s what I’m convinced of:

                You like to make shit up.

                1. I cite my stats. Not a single stat, not a single cite from the Trump cult.

                  If you were a thinking person who was looking for real information, that would tell you about all you need to know.

        2. “If you take out a third of the cases that occurred in our densest urban centers, and then don’t remove the deaths from other countries’ urban centers, then we compare pretty well.”

          1. New York is not the densest populated state. New Jersey is but in both states most of their deaths have been in nursing homes. Those two states murdered their nursing home patients. That is not Trump’s responsibility.

          2. Who is responsible for controls at the state or city level Jeff?

            Answer. you claim to be a libertarian. prove it.

            1. Does or does not population density effect viral spread?

              You say you are smart. Prove…ahahahaha I won’t even bother.

              1. Still not gonna answer this question huh? I’ve seen it asked repeatedly in this thread, and have yet to see an answer from anyone in your lefty cult.

                1. I have never said anything lefty ever. Closest I’ve come is agreeing with Trump on punishing China.

                  I’m not answering because it is fucking stupid and ill defined. I would need to write a goddam essay or have Jesse define his question far more narrowly. It is pretending that the president didn’t specifically use federal assets to steal medical supplies from states, among other things.

                  1. Jesse’s question is too broad, but taking “precautions” at the executive level against an unknown virus was clearly not done to your satisfaction?

                    So….. national lockdown then?

      3. Swan wants to look at the death rate as measured by proportion of citizens.

        Except that it is not a number that has been used by epidemiologists throughout this entire experience because it is impossible to determine a ‘why’ to go with that statistic where deaths/cases is something that can be evaluated based on treatments and policies.

        You are a fucking liar following up on the lies that Swan tried to surprise Trump with.

      4. Trump wants to look at the death rate as measured by proportion of cases. This number makes him look good.

        Swan wants to look at the death rate as measured by proportion of citizens. This number doesn’t make Trump look good.

        The irony here is you actually have it backwards.

        CFR is around 3%. That’s real bad.

        Deaths per 1M is about 480 which is #10 on earth behind several other countries with way more severe nationwide lockdowns and slightly behind Sweden .

      5. “This number makes him look good”.
        “This number doesn’t….”

        No. It’s a fucking virus. How badly do you need to be lead? You wanna be tucked in at night and told the big scary Rona monster can’t get you?


    3. The criticism is much more basic: on video, Trump is not prepared for discussing per-capita statistics, and tries to say that per-capita statistics are somehow not legitimate.

      1. He’s visibly flustered.

        1. Pretty sure Ken’s got it:
          “Telling us how you feel gets you a zero.”

          1. Right now, the world is rife with people who want to blame Trump for the economy and COVID-19 but can’t seem to think of any specific criticism.

            When asked, point blank, instead of coming up with any legitimate libertarian criticism of Trumps policies, they tell us about their fucking feelings!

            I’ve long suspected that one of the reasons people think the government should do everything is because they want to hold the government responsible for everything bad that happens.

            God forbid there were things beyond our control or if they had to take responsibility for their own choices. Suggesting that people should take responsibility for their own choices may be the essence of libertarianism, but it also hurts their fucking feelings!

            1. This has nothing to do with the point of the criticism around this video. Trump became flustered when the interviewer wanted to talk about per-capita statistics, and then said such statistics are not valid.

            2. Here’s a specific one for ya: Trump should not have dismantled Obama’s pandemic response team. Oh, and he should have negotiated for medical supplies for the entire US, instead of making states bid against each other and the feds.

              And he shouldn’t have used Feds to steal medical supplies en route to states.

              And he should have started wearing a mask much earlier.

              1. “Here’s a specific one for ya: Trump should not have dismantled Obama’s pandemic response team.”

                So you’re attacking the people who made the decisions and not the decisions they made?

                Which decision would the pandemic response team have made differently–so that fewer people would have died?

                “Oh, and he should have negotiated for medical supplies for the entire US, instead of making states bid against each other and the feds. And he shouldn’t have used Feds to steal medical supplies en route to states. And he should have started wearing a mask much earlier.

                Once again, we’re looking for libertarian arguments. And making people bid against each other for scarce resources is kind of the central plank of market solutions. Are you not aware of that?

                And you’re going to have to link to observation that the federal government “stole” medical supplies that were bound for the states. What exactly happened, and how did that lead to a higher mortality rate or a larger number of deaths?

                In terms of virtue signaling by Trump wearing a mask sooner, if you think people wear or don’t wear a mask because of what Trump does, I’ll question whether that’s a legitimate question of national policy in regards to the pandemic. In other words, isn’t virtue signaling by definition not policy? I fail to see how virtue signaling changes policy or the government’s response to anything–even IF IF IF it really does inspire average people to behave differently.

                Is there a Department of Virtue Signaling? If there were, Trump’s policy on virtue signaling might a legitimate bone of contention. If virtue signaling is important to you, well good for you. That doesn’t make it a question of public policy that should be changed one way or another. Does Congress oversee the Department of Virtue Signaling? How much of a budget is the Department of Virtue Signaling granted every year?

                1. Is part of the libertarian plank making states bid against each other for medical supplies during a crisis? Not familiar with that one. Actually, part of what separates libertarianism from anarcho capitalism is the allowance for government and collective action in certain circumstances. Easiest to identify is common defense and war, and the taxation necessary for it.

                  And yes, Trump supporters are influenced by Trump. Arguing otherwise just makes you look even more hopelessly biased and deluded.

        2. Again, you seem to be talking about the way things are counted?


          Is a six fundamentally different from half a dozen ?

          Should there have been a national lockdown–and will libertarian critics have the balls to say so?

          Are we saying that President Trump should be criticized for COVID-19 because he didn’t institute national lock-down orders and do so for an extended period of time?

          Maybe you think President Trump should be criticized because he should have imposed stricter travel restrictions?

          Maybe you think he should have forced manufacturers to stop building cars and start manufacturing ventilators more than he did?

          Maybe you just don’t like the way he held his press conferences and tweeted about things–and if he’d tweeted things differently, we could have saved more lives?

          —-Ken Shultz

          These are examples of things that maybe could have been done differently–and would have resulted in fewer deaths.

          Facts don’t change based on how you feel about them. Do you really not understand what facts are? If you do, then maybe you can point to some policies that should have been done differently, based on the information that was available at the time, and would have resulted in fewer deaths. Different policies that would have changed the outcome–the outcome having nothing to do with your feelings.

          1. Maybe his lizard person son in law should not have been placed in charge of pandemic response. After all, he still hasn’t wrapped up mid east peace.

            We did have a very well equipped and staffed task force for exactly this purpose. But unfortunately, it had Obama’s mark on it. Oh well, 150,000, sorry 155,000 dead Americans is no big deal when it comes to spiting Obama.

            1. Still pretending that’s not Cuomo and pals fault, huh?

              1. Deaths are over 1000/day again. And this time you don’t have Cuomo to blame for being Mayor of the most dense population center in the US.

                1. “you don’t have Nixon Cuomo to kick around any more” – t. DOL

                  Yeah, okay. Density. Like all those dense nursing homes, and dense Chinese New Year celebrations.

                2. Haha. Yeah. Here in Seattle a recent spike in cases in the 20-39 age group was reported. The cause, according to health officials?

                  4th of July celebrations. No shit.

                  Trump definitely should have put a stop to that.

            2. You’re getting warmer. Still, you seem to be criticizing the people that made the policy choices rather than the choices they made? That’s kinda ad hominy.

              What different choices would a task force have made that would have saved the lives of however many Americans? If you can’t think of a policy to criticize (only the people who made it), then as policy criticism goes, that’s pretty weak sauce.

              1. I will ad hominem the fuck outta Jared. The dude is a creepy international generational wealth grifter. He is globalism wrapped up in a human shell. Nepotism and corruption writ large.

                And yet “libertarians” for Trump see nothing wrong with placing that human trash heap in charge.

            3. No we didn’t. the cdc was focused on vaping and obesity.

              1. Reason even had an article about all the BS the CDC was doing when the Wuhan hit. Lying Jeffy must have forgotten about it.

            4. Lying Jeffy still dodging the question Ken asked 20 posts ago!

            5. We did have a very well equipped and staffed task force for exactly this purpose. But unfortunately, it had Obama’s mark on it.

              The office wasn’t “eliminated,” it was consolidated with another one, you moron. None of the billets were actually taken off the books.

          2. No, you are missing the simple point of the criticism.

            It’s in the same vein as (valid) criticisms that Biden is clearly mentally slipping. Trump in this video is struggling with being asked about per-capita rates. His deer-in-the-headlights, out of his depth reaction is to try to tell the interviewer per-capita statistics are somehow not a legitimate thing.

            1. Or another way to put it: Trump was clutching his printouts and when asked about per-capita rates responded with the equivalent of Nigel saying, “These go to 11.”

      2. Trump is not prepared for discussing per-capita statistics

        Because they are irrelevant, Baby Jeffy. Go blow yourself in the corner.

    4. .@jonathanvswan: “Oh, you’re doing death as a proportion of cases. I’m talking about death as a proportion of population. That’s where the U.S. is really bad. Much worse than South Korea, Germany,etc.

      And yet still better than Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden…. What was his point again?

      1. Orange Man Bad!

  42. Is calling a political candidate “literally Hitler” illegal?

    Gee, I hope not, otherwise the progressives might have to come up with a different tactic.

    1. Literally Lenin.
      Literally Stalin.
      Literally Mussolini.
      Literally Mao.
      Literally Archie Bunker.

      They have options.

      1. Except for Archie, they’re not going to blaspheme.

      2. Literally carrot top

        Is that one actionable?

      3. They wouldn’t use Literally Lenin, Stalin, or Mao as an insult though. They would probably see those as complements.

      4. Literally Emily Litella………er never mind.

  43. Don’t wear a mask, folks. You have a God-given right to be the biggest asshole on the planet if you want. Exercise your rights proudly and loudly! Don’t let those commie socialists take away your American entitlement to be a self-indulgent narcissist. You have a right to infect your entire neighborhood with a contagious disease! That’s what Real Murica is all about!

    1. Oof. Amazing.

      I think masks are rooted in mostly specious science and could easily judge other for buying into it but I don’t. If people choose to voluntarily deceive themselves have a go.

      Yet, people like you don’t reciprocate and call us ‘assholes’ for not bending to your superstition.

      1. Explain Japan, Korea, Singapore’s extremely good handling of the virus without wide spread and extended lockdowns.

        It’s the fucking masks, dummy!

        Why does your dentist or surgeon wear a mask? What is germ theory? What is common sense?

        1. No it’s not. Go read carefully about those places. They where them for a bunch of reasons. And noticed they don’t generally wear cloth and medical masks. That seems to be a a Western fad.

          And quite frankly I don’t give a shit about those places.

          I was waiting for when the left was going to start on the ‘Yeh but in Asia’ crap.

          1. Nice of you to provide no specific counter argument other than, “I don’t care.”


        2. Why does your dentist or surgeon wear a mask?

          Bacteria, fucktard!

          This took me 15 seconds to find in Google:

          Bacteria are giants when compared to viruses. The smallest bacteria are about 0.4 micron (one millionth of a meter) in diameter while viruses range in size from 0.02 to 0.25 micron. This makes most viruses submicroscopic, unable to be seen in an ordinary light microscope. They are typically studied with an electron microscope.


          1. Viruses don’t have wings and fly on their own. They adhere to other particles to become airborne.

            This is a perfect example of your crippling Dunning-Kruger. You are not smarter than the entire world’s supply of epidemiologists, who near universally endorse masks.

            1. Which means you’re going to get sick and die anyway, so you might as well come to grips with it.

      2. And even if it was incorrect, are you so in love with the smell of your own shit that you’d rather risk infecting and causing death rather than hedge against your own vastly superior intellect?

        1. You’re an idiot.

          The lack of context and logic these days is beyond the pale.

          You’re just another moron who thinks they’re following science but in fact just following orders. Go read, again, CAREFULLY, what the data says about asymptomatic people.

          And here’s another thing Champ: We’re all asymptomatic of something 24/7 365 days a year.

          1. Rufus in 1960: “Look at this idiot! Not smoking because idiot “doctors” tell him it causes cancer! I’m smart and I can just tell it doesn’t because I don’t want reality to be that way!”

            1. And he’s still here?


      3. What is a meta study, and how are you smarter with your gut feeling than 21 studies and the hundreds of scientists who took part in them?

        How are you all so lacking in humility?

        1. I’m familiar with that study. And if you weren’t an illiterate choosing to selectively read into things you’d see my position is there’s some evidence to suggest they work – but not to a significant degree. Anywhere between 10%-30% reduction I’ve read – to wear them voluntarily.

          The research does NOT justify mass mandatory mandates. There’s many more studies proving this point.

          It’s behavior modification for limited success.

          1. 30% reduction is pretty fucking significant. Where’s your study of 21 studies that shows any harm in mask wearing?

            Put the fucking mask on. If people had worn masks in Tulsa, there is a very good chance Hermain Cain would still be here.

        2. How are you all so lacking in humility?

          Basic scientific and historical literacy. Unlike you and all the other Baby Jeffys.

          1. You really think you are better at science than 100’s of scientists working in their career field.

            What an utter dumb fuck you are.

        3. Read the individual studies. They don’t say what you think they do.

          1. They don’t cost a thing and they don’t hurt. So put them on.

            1. Science!

        4. I like how Jeff throws out the magical word meta study without understanding their limitations or how they can provide false results.

          1. De Oppresso threw out the term, not chemjeff.

            Once again, one of the ways JesseAz does not debate in good faith.

          2. I like how jesse and his meangirlz gang can not for the life of them cite a study to refute anything I have said.

    2. “…You have a God-given right to be the biggest asshole on the planet if you want…”

      That mirror is a tough customer, Jeff.


      1. Just put the fucking mask on, Karen.

        1. dude Karen has five masks on.

          1. Haha. Yup.

        2. CONFORM! CONFORM! — DoL

          DoL admits he’d be on the side of Big Brother.

          1. How misanthropic do you have to be when taking precautions against a virus that has killed 150,000 of your fellows americans makes you first think about making sure you are perceived as an independent thinker, rather than actually thinking or helping your fellow citizen with a costless and riskless gesture?

            1. Now do heart disease.

    4. This isn’t about just you and your pant-wetting fear if illness, Jeffy. Shut the fuck up!

    5. Keep eating cookies people. Who cares if you put your life at risk. jeff likes cookies.


    New York Times says Biden shouldn’t have to debate Trump but assures it’s readers “This, by the way, isn’t written out of any concern that Donald Trump will prevail over Joe Biden in the debates; Mr. Biden has done just fine in a long string of such contests.”

    Every election is different. But there are a few things that all Presidential elections in my lifetime at least have in common. One of those things is the public never elects a candidate who doesn’t seem to really want the job. This rule has worked against Republicans in the past because every Democrat is desperate to win and get into power. A few Republicans, Dole, McCain, and Romney were not and they all lost.

    I do not think for a minute Biden can win while ducking out on the debates. Trump will destroy him for it. There is no reason not to have them. The public expects it. Independent and swing voters will see Biden’s refusal to debate as an admission that he is not up to the job. No amount of media excuse making and propaganda will change that. The fact that the Democrats are even entertaining the idea shows that Biden must be in really bad shape. It is hard to imagine a debate performance that would do more damage to Biden than refusing to debate at all. Apparently, Democrats who are close to Biden can not only imagine such a performance but must also see it as a certainty or else they wouldn’t even consider such a desperate ploy.

    1. If Biden can’t demonstrate an ability to stand up to Trump on tv, how is he going to stand up to Russia or China or Saudi Arabia or any other hostile beings (like AOC) behind the scenes where the public can’t see the exchange?

      1. He can’t. The debates are to the election what the NFL combine is to the draft. Neither event really has much to do with the substance of the job. They are both just tests to ensure that the person has the basic skills and desire for the job. If you want to be President, you have to be able to stand up in front of the country and go at it with an adversary. Usually debates are a wash because both candidates can do that and each side inevitably thinks their guy won. But, refusing to do it at all or totally melting down if you do, is different. The public will certainly hold that against a candidate.

    2. Trump does a really good job when the chips are down and he’s prepared.

      When he debated Hillary the night after the pussy grabbing video came out, it was like watching Evel Knievel make a jump as a kid–where most people were paying for tickets because they expected to see him crash and burn. When he showed up and kicked Hillary’s ass instead, that was the most amazing comeback in Superbowl history.

      Trump’s recent speech at Mt. Rushmore in defense of our monuments and our history was like that, too.

      The way it usually goes it that the contender gets a bump after the convention, and the incumbent gets a bump after the convention. People don’t really start paying attention until the conventions. And Trump’s reelection probably hinges almost entirely on the debates. If people irrationally blame Trump for the economy and the virus, there’s only so much kicking Biden’s ass on television can do for him–but he probably can’t get reelected without kicking Biden’s ass.

      The good news is that Trump is walking into a situation with Biden that is far easier than he had when he swaggered into that debate with Hillary cleaned her clock. Trump will be lucky if it all comes down to the debates because that’s what he’s good at.

      1. our monuments and our history

        You’re such a conservative.

        1. Well, that’s what his speech was about, and that’s what social justice warriors were tearing down at the time.

          Should I have said his speech was about something else?

    3. I’m curious about their assertion that Joe has always done well at these things.

      In most cases, when he’s left one-on-one with someone he ends up looking like a buffoon. I recently watched a video of him trying to attack Thomas Sowell during a confirmation hearing (Bork’s?), this was supposedly at the peak of Biden’s mental acuity and Sowell made him look like a child.

      The more Joe Biden speaks the more clear it is that if he was ever even of average intelligence that time has long since passed. He did OK in the large scale debates because he never had to speak for more than a minute or go more than an inch deep on any of his viewpoints. He’s deteriorated to the point where he can’t even clearly make it through a prepared statement, if he has to think on his feet he’s doomed and that’s exactly what Trump would make him do in a debate.

      1. The Times expects people to believe that they don’t want Biden to debate Trump even though they think Biden would do well and it would help him. Only a publication as mendacious as the Times could print something like that without irony.

        1. they will claim no need to debate Trump since he is a liar and he is just a jerk. Remember even Hillary used that as an excuse for her not wining debates with Trump.

        2. If Trump were half the moron that the Times paints him as they should be chomping at the bit to have their boy on a stage with him.

    4. “I wish Ghislane Maxwell well. I really do. -DJT on 2 separate occasions now

      1. Bill Clinton, elder statesmen of the Democratic party visited the Island multiple times. Molesting underage girls is what Democrats do except when they are not sodomizing young boys.

        It is who you depraved pieces of garbage are. Stop pretending that problem involves Trump.

        1. let’s spin the ol’ whatabout wheel!

          whatabout whatabout whatabout….

          DING DING DING

          Bill Clinton!

          An old favorite!

    5. This is how the media will “blow” the election. (We know they’re angling for Biden.)

      To promote the idea that Biden shouldn’t debate only makes him look like a coward. It might work with voters that are already in Biden’s corner and on the coasts. However, in the middle of America, and in swing states, voters on the fence won’t go for that. It’s a sign of weakness and a transparently political move.

      Editorial boards are crazy for even trying to float this. It’s really desperation time, isn’t it?

    6. If the debate doesn’t happen Trump should say he wishes Biden well

    7. I fully expect Biden to debate masked. I also believe Candy Crowley et al are cramming ventriloquism lessons.

    8. “ I do not think for a minute Biden can win while ducking out on the debates. Trump will destroy him for it.”

      Not convinced it would damage Biden that much to duck out. Most voters already know who they are voting against. The polls seem to be showing that significantly more people are ready to vote against Trump. They don’t really care if they are voting *for* a potted plant or something.

      1. Prepare to be disappointed.

  45. Well, I guess this thread is kind of an admission that if a 25 year old gets shot in the head, dies, and just happens to have traces of COVID-19 in his system, the government can classify it as a “coronavirus death” and Reason has no problem with that at all.

    “Libertarianism is all about believing the government propaganda that suits us.”
    -Reason in 2020

    1. Citation? Anything other than some anecdote you are repeating from freedom eagle blog or pjmedia?

      Here’s the one out of many I could pick showing the death rate is being undercounted, using data.

      1. We all know damn well that the CDC has directly hospitals to claim any trace of the virus in the victim as a coronavirus death, completely regardless of other factors.

        And I also know that you’re a sockpuppet account for one of the writers here.

        1. So no citation? Why am I not surprised.

    2. He wouldn’t even have to have that virus. Remember months ago when that child died of seizures and the family, despite all testing negative twice, had had symptoms of a respiratory infection, and so, despite the child’s having had a rare seizure disorder since birth or close to it, Reason apparently endorsed calling it a Covid-19 death?

  46. What I have seen of Jonathan Swan’s interview will confirm that President Trump has no idea of what is happening in the US regarding the pandemic. In every interview we have seen lately the President shows he is uninformed. Swan, Wallace, Hannity interviews have all shown Trump flaws. His best strategy would be to go out onto the golf course until November. It will not help him but at least it will not hurt him either.

    1. The impression I got from the interview is that Trump’s handlers give him a bunch of graphs with data that are presented to make Trump feel good, and that is what he honestly believes. He doesn’t know the entire situation with regards to the pandemic because he isn’t told it and doesn’t have the intellectual curiosity to inquire about it.

      1. The impression I got from the interview is that _________ handlers give him a bunch of graphs with data that are presented to make __________ feel good, and that is what _______ honestly believes. ________ doesn’t know the entire situation with regards to the pandemic because _________ isn’t told it and doesn’t have the intellectual curiosity to inquire about it.

        _________ is however certain that they know the solution to the problem and they are willing to spend as much money, drop as many bombs or jail as many people as they need to in order to achieve the outcome to the problem they don’t understand.
        Congrats!!! You just described what it’s like to be a politician.

        1. So what’s special about Trump?

          Is it that he calls Mexicans rapists and murders? Or that he asks our enemies for assistance getting elected? Or that he apologizes for America to Putin? Or that he dodged the draft 5 times with a fake medical note? Or that he has never demonstrated patriotism or selflessness? Or that he is barred from operating a charity after he was caught defrauding a veteran’s charity?

          Which one of Trump’s special and unique characteristics makes him so appealing, then, if he is just another politician?

          1. What’s special about Trump?
            Good question.

            Apparently it’s something since the entire established power structure of the Western World is willing to go to such extreme lengths as burning the whole world down to get him out of the way…

            1. Question: Do you consider what you just wrote as hyperbole, or do you literally believe what you said?

          2. It’s the suit he wears. The voters went for somebody who represented resistance against being dictated to by elites, had success in business, was extremely proud, and seemed more with it than Herman Cain. The voters could’ve found someone else like that.

    2. Your posts would be more persuasive if you actually gave examples of what you are talking about. Sorry but unsupported assertions are unsupported assertions and convince no one except your sock puppets.

      1. John, are you playing dumb or being dumb? He’s probably talking about the part where Trump tries to claim US has one of the lowest death rates, which is inverse of reality.

        1. We do have some of the lowest death rates. Just because you are a fucking moron who doesn’t understand reality doesn’t change what reality is.

          1. Your right our death rate is much lower than many third world nations. We should all be thankful we are not in Ecuador, Iran, Iraq, or Egypt.

          2. Hint: John is not actually dumb.

          3. citation?

    3. At least Trump is willing to face SOME scrutiny from adversarial media.

      Sleepy Joe the Basement Boy’s handlers are so (understandably) terrified of letting the real life Grampa Simpson interact with even friendly human beings face to face they won’t let him out of the basement or anyone else in.

      1. Adversarial media? Two of the interviews were for Fox. I will accept that adversarial media statement when Trump goes on Morning Joe, Joy Reid, or Rachael Maddox.

  47. It’s the same game leftists play again and again. Everybody with a brain thinks “Hitler” is bad. But leftists don’t think Stalin or Mao was bad (despite the inconvenient starvation of tens of millions of their citizens). Calling them commies or Stalinists or whatever is not an insult to them. And it requires a knowledge of history that most people lack. So conservatives fall for the “Hitler” shtick every time.

    The best thing to do is just cancel leftists and communists from society, education, politics, business, and wherever you find them. I don’t care if they exist, but they should not be a part of normal society. They are deranged lunatics with dangerous ideas that literally killed millions of people and they have never paid a price for those crimes. That reason koch libs seems to have attached themselves to the left is depressing but not expected given that their entire purpose is to prop up the worst of humanity.

    1. And yet Trump is the one praising current head of China’s communist party and apologizing to Putin for America’s actions over the years.

      1. Trump is putting the squeeze on China like no President in decades. It is the Democrats who want to trade with and support China not Trump.

        And no one gives a shit about Putin. When they send you new talking points Jeff, you delete your old ones. Jesus, you are the worst troll ever.

        1. That’s ridiculous. De Opresso Liber is no more a troll than you are. He regularly posts real thoughts.

        2. lol. I can keep the same response and still win this argument.

          And yet Trump is the one praising current head of China’s communist party and apologizing to Putin for America’s actions over the years.

          You guys are fully off the reservation now, and you know it.

    2. Marxism and the rise of the socialist state is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of citizens at the hands of their own government. There is irrefutable evidence this is true. It didn’t work as intended in the USSR, China, North Korea, Cambodia, Cuba, Venezuela, or anywhere else it has been attempted ever. The deeper the adoption of the principals, the more brutal the eventual dictatorship/oligarchy.

      The left in America thinks they can implement ‘socialism-lite’ and that somehow, magically, they can avoid the tragic consequences that inevitably occur when the population resists the loss of individual choice that is mandated by central planning. Because their motives are pure and the ‘right people’ will be put in charge.

      Feelzocracy. The culmination of 53 years of free love and acid trips.

    3. Certain far or alt right folks don’t mind being associated with Hitler. Seems like there is this kind of thing going on on both the left and the right.

  48. And the last barriers between American democracy and a deep political crisis may be television news and some version of that maddening needle on The New York Times website.

    The hubris coming from people working in a dying medium is unbelievable. “We’re the last bastion standing between ‘muh democracy’ and the Trumpenfhurer!” There’s a reason their whole industry is slowly dying.

    1. attempted Churchill should be actionable.

  49. >>Is calling a political candidate “literally Hitler” illegal?

    is using a 20 year old internet catchphrase an assertion of truth? the better play for the stupid candidate was to larf it off.

  50. “Literally Hitler’ Election Mailer Is Protected by the First Amendment”

    Whew, ENB would have lost all her Trump talking points if it wasn’t.

  51. And the last barriers between American democracy and a deep political crisis may be television news and some version of that maddening needle on The New York Times website.

    Oh lord. Media types are so self-important. It’s laughably ridiculous.

    1. They really are. All that stands between the nation an chaos and tyranny is the national media. Jesus fucking Christ how could anyone be stupid enough to believe that?

    2. ludicrously tragic. tragically ludicrous.

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  53. If Trump loses in 2020, or if the democrats win in 2024; is everyone excited to live through another “BOOOSSHHH” era when commentators want to compare the current president to the previous president but all the Johns of the world will make sure that can’t happen in a thoughtful and cognitive way?

    If anyone ever thought that this game hasn’t been Red vs. Blue to one’s own detriment, all you have to do is read Reason comments. However well cloaked, there is never any conversation in these comments beyond that. It’s sad and a huge bummer.

    1. It is reasonable for people to become more partisan as an election approaches.

    2. Regardless of who wins this November, you will still be stupid and wasting time posting nonsense.

      If Trump loses in 2020, or if the democrats win in 2024; is everyone excited to live through another “BOOOSSHHH” era when commentators want to compare the current president to the previous president but all the Johns of the world will make sure that can’t happen in a thoughtful and cognitive way?

      What does that even mean? You do know that thoughtful and cognitive are more or less synonyms right? How the hell is something both thoughtful and cognitive? If it is thoughtful it is by definition cognitive you half wit.

      Moreover, what exactly is stopping you from having this conversation other than the voices in your head? What conversation are you even talking about?

      That sentence is a perfect example of bad prose and worse thinking. You don’t have to agree with me. But you could at least try to say something that makes some sense. Stop raping the English language like this. The poor girl has suffered enough.

      God you are an idiot.

  54. Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank President Neel Kashkari

    Neel Kashkari? Kneel, Cash [and] Carry? This is too good.

  55. Campaign season is going to be really interesting in Tennessee.

  56. Good for TSEL for winning their First Amendment case. I am, however, curious how a group organized for “Sensible Election Laws” thinks it’s in their mandate to lobby about sex offender punishments. Unless they don’t really care about Griffey but used him as a patsy in their attack against the bad election law? That would be within their mandate but more cynical than I usually expect to see.

    1. It takes a bunch of paperwork to register a political organization, set up a bank account, and all that. Probably a holdover from some previous year’s issues.

  57. Lying is coercion for compelling people under the authority of truth to make decisions in the liars interest instead of their own.

    The judge assuming the authority of the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth ruled in favour of lying.

    Fucking hypocrite.

    1. Fucker should allow lying in court don’t you think?

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