Coronavirus

We Will Regret Not Taking the Economic Effects of Mass Quarantine More Seriously

The government botched the early response to coronavirus, so why expect it to grow in competence now?

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"Shelter in place" laws telling residents to stay in their homes whenever possible are sweeping the country, making it clear that public health concerns—as opposed to worries about staving off economic collapse—have carried the day when it comes to responding to the coronavirus. That's a decision we will come to rue as a nation, since a disease's direct death rate is not the only factor to be considered in responding to it.

On Sunday, Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York, the state with the country's highest number of confirmed coronavirus cases, embodied this decision. During a press conference in which he laid out strict orders for the state's nearly 20 million residents to stay out of parks and offices, he called out New Yorkers who contravened his orders. "It's insensitive, it's arrogant, it's self-destructive, it's disrespectful to other people and it has to stop….This is not a joke, and I am not kidding."

Similar orders have been issued in California, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and other states, with such cities as New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, and D.C. adding more localized (and sometimes more onerous) restrictions, such as banning gatherings of more than two people outside of home. Calls for a federal order—resisted so far by President Donald Trump in the name of letting states and cities respond to local conditions—will only intensify as the nation enters the second half of the White House's "15 Days To Slow the Spread" initiative and Congress readies an economic aid bill that will almost certainly top $1 trillion.

It won't be popular to call attention to the possibility that such actions might be an overreaction. But it's a serious point, even if that sentiment has no hopes of carrying the day. The federal government botched the early response to coronavirus, so why should we expect it to get its act together now? Whenever we are finally clear of this pandemic, we will need to study our response to understand what we did right and what we did wrong. With a virtually complete halt of the American economy about to begin, we should enter this phase with full awareness that it wasn't the only choice available to us.

On Friday in The New York Times, David L. Katz, former director* of the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center and president of True Health Initiative, outlined in no uncertain terms what is known about the effects of coronavirus and its likely spread among older and sickly Americans. He pointed out that the death rate on the Diamond Princess cruise ship—"that insular and uniformly exposed population"—is roughly 1 percent. Similar or smaller numbers are observed in countries such as China, Taiwain, Singapore, and South Korea, where the rate of new infections is declining, signaling that infection is at least temporarily under control. As a medical professional, Katz in no way scants public health concerns. But he is also

deeply concerned that the social, economic and public health consequences of this near total meltdown of normal life—schools and businesses closed, gatherings banned—will be long lasting and calamitous, possibly graver than the direct toll of the virus itself. The stock market will bounce back in time, but many businesses never will. The unemployment, impoverishment and despair likely to result will be public health scourges of the first order.

Elsewhere, the Nobel Prize–winning biophysicist Michael Levitt, who predicted—apparently accurately—a much-swifter decline in coronavirus spread in China and elsewhere, is arguing that an overreaction to the disease could do more damage than the disease itself. The Los Angeles Times reports:

While many epidemiologists are warning of months, or even years, of massive social disruption and millions of deaths, Levitt says the data simply don't support such a dire scenario—especially in areas where reasonable social distancing measures are in place.

Levitt isn't waving away health concerns, but he's following the numbers as he finds them. Even in heavily affected countries such as Iran, which is reportedly suffering from a lack of medical resources, new infections have leveled off:

The trajectory of deaths backs up his findings, [Levitt] said. So do data from outbreaks in confined environments, such as the one on the Diamond Princess cruise ship. Out of 3,711 people on board, 712 were infected and eight died. In his view, this unintended experiment in coronavirus spread will help researchers estimate the number of fatalities that would occur in a fully infected population….

He fears the public health measures that have shut down large swaths of the economy could cause their own health catastrophe, as lost jobs lead to poverty and hopelessness. Time and again, researchers have seen that suicide rates go up when the economy spirals down.

On March 19, the editorial board of The Wall Street Journal argued that "no society can safeguard public health for long at the cost of its overall economic health." Just a few days ago, it seemed plausible to argue for a more measured response to the pandemic, one that balanced several areas of concern, including the economy, civil liberties, and the psychological effects of quarantines:

The deadweight loss in production will be profound and take years to rebuild. In a normal recession the U.S. loses about 5% of national output over the course of a year or so. In this case we may lose that much, or twice as much, in a month.

Our friend Ed Hyman, the Wall Street economist, on Thursday adjusted his estimate for the second quarter to an annual rate loss in GDP of minus-20%. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin's assertion on Fox Business Thursday that the economy will power through all this is happy talk if this continues for much longer.

If GDP seems abstract, consider the human cost. Think about the entrepreneur who has invested his life in his Memphis ribs joint only to see his customers vanish in a week. Or the retail chain of 30 stores that employs hundreds but sees no sales and must shut its doors.

Or the recent graduate with $20,000 in student-loan debt—taken on with the encouragement of politicians—who finds herself laid off from her first job. Perhaps she can return home and live with her parents, but what if they're laid off too? How do you measure the human cost of these crushed dreams, lives upended, or mental-health damage that result from the orders of federal and state governments?

Not even a full week later, those concerns seem as distant and irrelevant as arguments against massive (and ineffective) stimulus spending in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis. If the problem this time is literally new—"the novel coronavirus"—the politics are all too familiar. As the Journal editors put it:

The politicians in Washington are telling Americans, as they always do, that they are riding to the rescue by writing checks to individuals and offering loans to business. But there is no amount of money that can make up for losses of the magnitude we are facing if this extends for several more weeks. After the first $1 trillion this month, will we have to spend another $1 trillion in April, and another in June?

For the next few weeks (months? years?), nothing will matter more to politicians and the media except increasingly stringent public health measures that will become more draconian (and probably less successful) than those taken in countries such as South Korea, where life is beginning to drift back to normal. But as the window on a measured response gets nailed shut like the apartment doors of infected residents in China reportedly were, we should put in a marker to come back to these questions whenever life returns to normal.

*This article originally misidentified David L. Katz's role at the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center. He is the former director.

NEXT: Is National Shelter-In-Place Coming Soon?

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  1. Fascists gotta be fascists.

    1. Nick Gillespie wants your grandma to die.

      1. Nick ALSO spews the crazed bullshit that 50% spending cuts after WWII, were an INCENTIVE for the postwar boom … A BOOM THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!

        Nick, who says he voted for Mondale over Reagan, because Mondale promised to increase taxes to reduce deficits! (Nick LIES about the Reagan tax cuts)

        Reagan promised to CUT SPENDING … and wound up proposing spending cuts that would have totaled $10 TRILLION by 2000 (Cato estimate). Google “Grace Commission” — which sent hundreds of accountants and hands-on managers out into the departments, to see where WASTE AND FRAUD “really” are … instead of a bunch of dumbasses sitting around, babbling in committees. The cuts were buried by his own party .. which is when Reagan started talking about a line-item veto …. AGAINST HIS OWN PARTY.

        MONDALE!!!

        Nick HATES Reagan, for being more libertarian than his god – Ron Paul.
        In 1978, Reagan was instrumental in defeating California’s Briggs Initiative, which would have banned gay school teachers. It was leading in the polls, until Reagan HUMILIATED the Christian Taliban sponsors

        Homosexuality is no threat to our children, because it’s not communicable, like measles. (KAPOW)

        This brought down the nationwide anti-gay Anita Bryant Crusade … just prior to announcing his winning Presidential campaign. (The extreme Christian Right is a core element in Paulism)

        Ron Paul? … HA … BRAGS of sponsoring a bill that would have FORBIDDEN any legal appeals to DOMA … gays would have been the first group denied defense of constitutional rights since that OTHER group Ron hates … niggers. *sorry*

        Then, when DOMA was overturned, he said it was by “rogue judges” … the States Rights of Jim Crow racism — NOT federalism — that states have powers never delegated … including the power to deny fundamental rights, a power BANNED by the 9th Amendment! (When Eisenhower sent federal troops to Little Rock, to defend the rights of 9 school kids, Governor Faubus defended his use of armed force against 9 kids registering at Central High School, he said he was defending his state’s voters from an over-reaching Supreme Court. Chapter one in Ron Paul’s playbook!)

        As a Reason reader since the beginning, I miss seeing libertarian principles, at reason.com … at a time Americans are open to even radical change.

        1. It’s amazing how you manage fuck up history that your diseased old worthless ass was alive to actually see unfold. Feel free to go ahead and die any time, Hihn.

          1. Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat, sonny boy. *smirk*

            1. Smirk and not sneer?

              You are an asshat Hihn.

              1. *smirk*

                1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano smirks as he hides like a bitch from a cold bug.

                  1. BILL GATES PREDICTED A VIRUS CATASTROPHE …. IN 2015

                    “We are not ready for the next epidemic,” said Gates in 2015. (He) mentioned the details about Ebola and stated that “the problem was not that system did not work well enough but the problem was we did not have any system at all.”

                    In the Ted Talk titled ‘The next outbreak? We’re not ready’, Bill Gates predicted that the next outbreak would be more devastating than Ebola.

                    “The failure to prepare could allow the next epidemic to be dramatically more devastating than Ebola.”

                    Gates cited the fact that Ebola did not reach many urban cities or else the results would have been greater. “Next time we might not be so lucky,” His words have somehow predicted the Coronavirus epidemic’s dangers.

                    COVID-19 has barely begun … and has ALREADY hit major urban centers, worldwide.

                    President Trump deserves praise for reversing two months of delays and denials ,… “It’s a Democrat hoax” … “It will magically disappear.”

                    The President now endorses and supports the severe restrictions by governors in CA, NY and WA … He has activated the National Guard in those states … paid by federal .. but under command of the governors. And he’s shut down his new critics, saying he will watch results for 15 days, before any further decisions.

                    He’s even considering a special enrollment period for Obamacare, to help uninsured Americans cope with this crisis.

                    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano continues hiding like a bitch from a cold bug.

                    2. Gurdjieff predicted assholes like you would post here, and looky there!
                      Fuck off and die, Hihn.

            2. ok, specifically, would you ahead and die NOW?

        2. Reagan increase spending more than had been spent in all the years before him. Regan was a drug lord. When congress stopped his illegal covert war on Nicaragua and cut all funding (he should have been jailed for war crimes), he decided to fund his continued illegal war by selling crack cocaine to the black kids in LA. He flooded entire neighborhoods with crack, got hundreds of thousands of kids hooked on it. Not to mention the many killed by drug turf wars.
          Reagan the American drug lord, has an aircraft carrier named after him, has buildings named after him and has a library named after him, while a young black kid gets thrown in jail just for having a few ounces in his pocket. You are such a naive little child.

          1. DIVERSION

            REPEAT
            Google “Grace Commission” for the HUGE proposed spending cuts … buried by Reagan’s own party.

            NONE of Victor’s babble has anything to do with what I said about Nick voting for Mondale, because Mondale would INCREASE TAXES

            ***And Victor is FULL OF SHIT on Reagan’s spending. As PROVEN here
            http://www.libertyissues.com/trubud.htm

            “Because inflation varied so greatly in that decade, the nominal (reported) dollars are deceiving. A dollar spent in 1980 was worth only 66 cents in 1989. So compare the ”1980$” column, which restates everything in 1980 dollars.”

      2. The IFR in areas with overwhelmed medical systems is closer to 3-6% even if you correct for undertesting. In areas with robust testing it may be as low as 0.3% – but a more robust analysis of the Diamond Princess data indicates it is closer to 0.5%. But even that is 5-10x that of the flu and enough to easily overwhelm health care capacity as it already beginning to do in the US today.

        So it’s really a false choice. Because we’ve missed the chance to test our way out of this, economically speaking the stricter the lockdown the sooner we can start to reopen the economy. Slowly, gradually.

        Countries that avoided a total shutdown: Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan.

        Countries that ignored and downplayed the virus for months before taking action too late: China mainland, Italy, United States (and many others).

        What’s the difference? The former countries leapt into action with comprehensive testing and monitoring, contact tracing, and robust public health response.

        Once you miss the window of doing that, you only have the option of total shutdown to prevent mass death on a scale not seen in history. Once the shutdown gets things back to some degree, then you can implement testing and tracing and slowly open things back up. Open up too soon before that point and you are just going to go through another cycle of this.

        This is really not a question of economy vs lives. If you do a strict shutdown then the shutdown is shorter and you can recover more quickly with less economic damage. If you do a loose, half-assed shutdown, you aren’t going to get your economy back sooner. You’ll have maybe a few days or maybe a week of “open” until you run headlong into the exponential expansion of this disease and you get images of bodies piling up in hospitals and the public pressure is so great that you shut down anyway. And by then you’ve made the problem 5x worse and the economic pain that much greater.

        Study some basic math and do some thinking. This is not hard. But it does seem to be behind the comprehension of even relatively intelligent people. Is this a failing of education or a failing of willingness to think this through carefully?

        Either way: the epidemiological models are absolutely clear and have predicted this accurately thus far. There’s already enough empirical evidence to see how this plays out. We already have ample evidence of what’s happened elsewhere.

    2. It’s time to rename this zombie apocalypse to Mass Coronavirus Effect. Thank God, at least the Internet works, I am entertaining myself by downloading my favorite music from YouTube. Lucky to find this software https://convert2.online/, otherwise I would have gone crazy already. Where are you, Commander Shepard ??? The galaxy needs you again!

      1. And all he could say was “I should go”

    3. Fascists gotta be fascists.

      TRUMP IS A FASCIST?
      Or are you totally clueless? Even Trump now says you’re wacko
      Educate yourself, from this LIBERTARIAN for once.

      https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178395

      1. Fuck off and die, Hihn

        1. Thinkers will still click the link.
          Your crazed reply will cause even more to do so!
          *sneer*

          1. Thinkers will still click the link.

            Nobody reads the delusional shit that you copy and paste into every thread you senile old piece of shit. Fucking die already, Jesus Christ.

            1. Thinkers will still click the link.

              And Val Venis has been CALLED OUT AS A PSYCHO LIAR … CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

              https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

              Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat *smirk*YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
              (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

        2. I love that he thinks it’s controversial to believe in freedom of association and freedom of movement.

          Then again, he also believes he has a right to other people’s money so I guess that’s not surprising.

          1. I love your contempt for the Sanctity of Life.
            NOT

    4. Yep, and politicians have to be morons. Most healthy folks not at an advanced age, or with pre-existing medical problems will be fine. What the govt. has done is make things worse, as they pretend that staying at home is safe, etc. Do the pols know how many people who already have the virus haven’t been diagnosed? Nope, so they recommend idiocies to make us “safe”.

  2. You’re conveniently leaving out the most important bit of information: this is only happening as punishment for the country electing Trump. Absolutely none of this total bullshit would be happening if it were a democrat, and none it will the next time a democrat happens to be the president.

    1. Get over your TDS moron- this isn’t a ploy to affect Trump.

      1. No one is interested in what you have to say. I’m not sure if you’re AmSoc, or Kiddie Raper, but either way you should immediately kill yourself.

        1. NAZI utopia “civilized” pubic greeting: “Heil Hitler, fellow citizen!”

          Shitler’s utopia “civilized” pubic greeting: “Heil Shitsy Shitler, fellow citizen! Kill yourself!”

          Speaking of utterly sick death-worshippers, here’s Shitsy Shitler!

        2. Fuck off, shitlord.

          1. Nice, Hihn replied to the same post with all 3 of his socks AND linked to his own delusional rantings. It’s good to see you repeating those soothing behaviors. It means the progression of your disease is getting worse and you will soon be dead.

            1. Click the link. PROOF Val Venis is full of shit.
              And he’s been CALLED OUT AS A PSYCHO LIAR … CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

              https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

              Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat *smirk*

              YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
              (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

      2. That’s why when Obama waited 4 months until 2500 people had died from H1N1 to declare an emergency we all shit our pants and bought every roll of toilet paper in the country, right CNNPC?

        1. MOAR PROOF: VAL IS A CRAZED ALT-RIGHT, LYING SACK OF SHIT!
          TRUMP’S VIRUS FUCKUPS ARE 25X WORSE THAN EVEN OBAMA’S SWINE FLU!!!

          COVID-19 DEATH RATE 25X WORSE THAN SWINE FLU

          Last week, Trump said this at a news conference in the Oval Office: “If you go back and look at the swine flu and what happened with the swine flu, you’ll see how many people died and how actually nothing was done for such a long period of time, as people were dying all over the place.

          STILL BLAMING OBAMA – LIKE OBAMA KEPT BLAMING BUSH … VAL A BRAINWASHED PUPPET
          And this is 25 times worse (keep reading)

          Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention track the increase of H1N1 swine flu in 2009 from the day of the first death – April 28th, 2009 — compared with the rise of COVID-19 since the first U.S. coronavirus death was reported in Washington on Feb. 29.

          … the CDC had confirmed 4,226 COVID-19 cases in 16 days since the first death.

          At the same stage in 2009, the CDC had tallied 3,352 H1N1 cases.

          But, contrary to Trump’s claims, the death rate for COVID-19 has far outpaced H1N1 over the same span.

          The CDC had confirmed 75 COVID-19 deaths through Monday. By contrast, 16 days after the first swine flu death, there were only three H1N1 deaths reported to the CDC.

          COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu

          The CDC estimates about 12,000 Americans ended up dying from swine flu between April 2009 and April 2010.

          12,000 x 25 = 300,000
          For low IQs, like Val, simple charts at the source
          TRUMP HAS NOW BACKED OFF, SENDING FEDERAL TROOPS TO HELP CA, NY AND WA .. UNDER THE COMMAND OF GOVERNORS

          ***VAL CAN’T EVEN KEEP UP WITH THE DAILY NEWS!

          **”… (swine flu) didn’t go away. Many people don’t realize it’s now part of the seasonal flu and covered by the annual flu vaccine. … COVID-19 is completely new, is hitting on top of the seasonal flu, has no vaccine and clearly warrants the stronger response because nobody is immune. “The challenge with COVID-19 is we are all eligible to get sick and spread the disease all at the same time

          1. if covid-19 death rate is higher than the swine flu then why are more people not dead? total global deaths related to covid-19 are not high. furthermore, what about years when the seasonal flu vaccine is ineffective. i recall no mass hysteria when there were 80000 seasonal flu deaths. something about this whole thing doesnt make any sense.

    2. So you think that most of the countries are shutting down their economies and thousands are going to the hospital with a horrible illness just to spite Trump? That is nuts.

      1. No the illness is not about Trump, the reaction is. We didn’t shut down the economy for any of the numerous other virus outbreaks (which were arguably as bad if not worse) in the past couple of decades. No one blamed Obama for SARS deaths. No one demanded national shelter in place etc either. This is panic driven, and hardly seems to be supported by the actual real world data.

        1. If 80+% of the victims have no disease, or mild disease system, and therefore are not tested (as is the generally accepted estimate) then the death rate is probably much smaller than is currently being brandied about. Probably around that of a bad flu season.

          1. Your lack of pants shitting is not appreciated.

          2. This virus is very different from the flu. The CDC website quotes a report (out of China) that says 16% of the cases were severe and went to the ICU while the current US statistics reported there suggest the death rate is slightly more 1% which is at least 5X that of the flu.

            So while many people’s systems will be mild, others will be harmed significantly.

            Certainly “We Will Regret Not Taking the Economic Effects of Mass Quarantine More Seriously” for those that survive. But I think what we need is to develop practices that significantly reduce the spread of contagious diseases. That doesn’t mean not working, at least for most people. Some jobs involving herding people may not survive.

      2. THOUSANDS?!?!?!? OH MY FUCK! THOUSANDS of people! Out of 7.5 billion?!?!?!?!?! JESUS FUCK I JUST SHIT MY PANTS!!!!!! FUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKK

        1. Gomers now a bigger threat to America than the pandemic

          COVID-19 DEATH RATE 25X WORSE THAN SWINE FLU
          “The challenge with COVID-19 is we are all eligible to get sick and spread the disease all at the same time.”

          ELIGIBLE, because none are immune, unlike seasonal flu. DUH

          Last week, Trump said this at a news conference in the Oval Office: “If you go back and look at the swine flu and what happened with the swine flu, you’ll see how many people died and how actually nothing was done for such a long period of time, as people were dying all over the place.

          STILL BLAMING OBAMA – LIKE OBAMA KEPT BLAMING BUSH
          Dying BECAUSE nothing was done! And Trump’s fuckup is 25 times worse (keep reading)

          Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention track the increase of H1N1 swine flu in 2009 from the day of the first death – April 28th, 2009 — compared with the rise of COVID-19 since the first U.S. coronavirus death was reported in Washington on Feb. 29.

          … the CDC had confirmed 4,226 COVID-19 cases in 16 days since the first death.

          At the same stage in 2009, the CDC had tallied 3,352 H1N1 cases.

          But, contrary to Trump’s claims, the death rate for COVID-19 has far outpaced H1N1 over the same span.

          The CDC had confirmed 75 COVID-19 deaths through Monday. By contrast, 16 days after the first swine flu death, there were only three H1N1 deaths reported to the CDC.

          COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu

          The CDC estimates about 12,000 Americans ended up dying from swine flu between April 2009 and April 2010.

          12,000 x 25 = 300,000
          For low IQs, see simple charts at the source

          **”… (swine flu) didn’t go away. Many people don’t realize it’s now part of the seasonal flu and covered by the annual flu vaccine. … COVID-19 is completely new, is hitting on top of the seasonal flu, has no vaccine and clearly warrants the stronger response because nobody is immune. “The challenge with COVID-19 is we are all eligible to get sick and spread the disease all at the same time

          ***********”Less than two years ago, the seasonal flu was especially deadly. It killed an estimated 61,000 Americans, but it didn’t overwhelm health care workers and hospitals, as COVID-19 did in Italy and threatens to in the U.S. Those people (with seasonal flu) were spread out from November to April or May. Our healthcare system is designed to handle that kind of load. Not so with COVID-19.”

  3. The best way to understand and predict the behavior of modern Americans, especially “young adults”, is that they want to be treated like children. They want coddling, and protection, and lack of responsibility. They believe in the magic of authorities and are willing, nay, eager, to cede autonomy.

    And children never, ever think about money.

    1. The longer a species exists, the longer the period of adolescence encroaches on the periods of childhood and adulthood.

      1. The longer a species exists, the longer the period of adolescence encroaches on the periods of childhood and adulthood.

        Little known fact that crocodiles hatch as tweens and, within hours, grow to full adolescents where they remain until shortly before death.

        1. Is this another beautiful hypothesis slain by an ugly fact?

          It sounded good, anyway.

    2. And Boomers are all too happy to give the rest of us that “coddling” good and hard.

  4. “that insular and uniformly exposed population”

    I have yet to see a demographic breakdown of the cruise ship population, but I suspect it skews to older and richer than the general population. In other words, they are calculating the spread of leprosy based on studying a leper colony.

    1. Here ya go.

      WattsUpWithThat is a good site in general, and the commenters are not quite as bad as here but do need to be skimmed instead of read.

      1. How effing dare you. It goes without saying that any site’s commenters are not as bad as here.

        1. Oh, Vox, buzzfeed, MSNBC, and quite a few others are much worse than here.

          1. Politico, Rolling Stone, WaPo, NYT, TheHill, hell even FNC and several other “conservative sites” but from the other side.

            1. Which other side?

      2. the commenters are not quite as bad

        Good little NPCs that deserve headpats.

      3. Well, if I ever planned to go on a cruise (I didn’t), that age distribution chart forever cured me of the notion.

        1. Not enough < 19?

    2. Cruise ships tend to be floating nursing homes.

      1. Yeah, especially Swinger Cruises….

      2. How come all their commercial show fun loving young people and families with kids. Much like the casino commercials show young people and not the pensioner with their oxygen masks at the slots.

    3. And they are STILL doing this. By only testing the most severe cases, the virus looks a lot worse than it is, because you’re only looking at the top of the pyramid. This means we wait longer for reliable data and stretch this economic suicide as long as possible.

      1. By testing only the most severe cases, the virus may appear more deadly, but its rate of spread is ‘hidden’. And the rate of spread (more the ease of spread) is the issue.

        1. It’s almost like they aren’t interested in the most useful data, only the data which stokes the fires of panic.

          1. bingo!

      2. Meanwhile they are making comparisons, of the number of deaths divided into the number of confirmed infections, with other flu outbreaks, like H1N1, when those use a number of deaths divided into an estimate of the total number infected.
        Obviously, the former will be multiples greater than the latter.

        1. COVID-19 DEATH RATE 25X WORSE THAN SWINE FLU

          **”Less than two years ago, the seasonal flu was especially deadly. It killed an estimated 61,000 Americans, but it didn’t overwhelm health care workers and hospitals, as COVID-19 did in Italy and threatens to in the U.S. Those people (with seasonal flu) were spread out from November to April or May. Our healthcare system is designed to handle that kind of load. Not so with COVID-19.”

          “The challenge with COVID-19 is we are all eligible to get sick and spread the disease all at the same time.”

          ELIGIBLE, because none are immune, unlike seasonal flu.

          Last week, Trump said this at a news conference in the Oval Office: “If you go back and look at the swine flu and what happened with the swine flu, you’ll see how many people died and how actually nothing was done for such a long period of time, as people were dying all over the place.

          STILL BLAMING OBAMA – LIKE OBAMA KEPT BLAMING BUSH
          Dying BECAUSE nothing was done! And this is 25 times worse (keep reading)

          Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention track the increase of H1N1 swine flu in 2009 from the day of the first death – April 28th, 2009 — compared with the rise of COVID-19 since the first U.S. coronavirus death was reported in Washington on Feb. 29.

          … the CDC had confirmed 4,226 COVID-19 cases in 16 days since the first death.

          At the same stage in 2009, the CDC had tallied 3,352 H1N1 cases.

          But, contrary to Trump’s claims, the death rate for COVID-19 has far outpaced H1N1 over the same span.

          The CDC had confirmed 75 COVID-19 deaths through Monday. By contrast, 16 days after the first swine flu death, there were only three H1N1 deaths reported to the CDC.

          COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu

          The CDC estimates about 12,000 Americans ended up dying from swine flu between April 2009 and April 2010.

          12,000 x 25 = 300,000
          For low IQs, see simple charts at the source

          **”… (swine flu) didn’t go away. Many people don’t realize it’s now part of the seasonal flu and covered by the annual flu vaccine. … COVID-19 is completely new, is hitting on top of the seasonal flu, has no vaccine and clearly warrants the stronger response because nobody is immune.

    4. Lomgtobefree says the cruise ship was 100% infected, BEFORE IT LEFT PORT!
      THAT’S WHY EVEN TRUMP REJECTS HIS “THINKING”

      https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178395

      (The alt-right has never been wackier)

      1. The great news is that Hihn likes to lick doorknobs and eat his own shit, so he’ll probably be infected, and since he’s 95 years old and ravaged by senile dementia will very probably die. This virus is the best thing that ever happened.

        1. Val, my crazed stalker, has been CALLED OUT AS A PSYCHO LIAR … CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

          https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

          Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat! *smirk*

          YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
          (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

      2. That’s some first class pants shitting there, Hihn. If you can maintain your high standards, you just might score a consultant gig on CNN.

        1. That is BREITBART … NOT CNN … DUMBASS NEVER CLICKED THE LINK.

          1. Pants shitting is pants shitting, you’re the one who cares where it comes from.

            1. Pants shitting is pants shitting, you’re the one who cares where it comes from.

              Fucking liar.
              He blamed me for what Breitbart published.

              Now go change your pants.

          2. No, Hihn. I couldn’t care less about the link. It’s your delivery that’s important. No one does pants shitting like you! And it’s in higher demand now than ever! … Do you have an agent yet? If CNN won’t meet our demands, that’s okay. We’ll get you on MSNBC, and that cheap bastard Zucker will rue the day!

            Don’t sign anything until we meet. I’m wiring you a plane ticket now. You’re beautiful, baby! Don’t change a thing!

            1. BREITBART does pants shitting?

              1. Yeah, but Breitbart is small potatoes, Hihn. They can’t afford talent like you. No, Breitbart’s out of running, I’m afraid. Considering MSNBC is already slumming it, and we have to be realistic.

                1. Vice President Pence, a former governor and the leader of the federal response to the coronavirus, urged Americans on Monday to respect state and local restrictions that are in many cases tougher than those imposed by the Trump administration.

                  “We made it clear to the governors that this president and this administration fully supports decisions that governors are making in communities and states that are particularly impacted by the spread of the coronavirus and we are grateful for their efforts,” Pence said

                  1. Well, I don’t know where that’s coming from but either way, it’s a first class rant. That’s the stuff! But hold back your best for now. why buy the cow when you’re getting the milk for free, you follow me?

                    Now, who loves you, Baby? Let’s get this contract signed!

                    1. It’s gold!

  5. It would be fun if some game designer could make a sim that would show the progress of the Wuhan virus outbreak if the Reason staff were in charge of the US response.

    Open borders, zero quarantines, letting the stock market free fall and unemployment rate skyrocket, and no federal monies for states or cities are just some of the fun things to consider with Dalmia or Gillespie running the show.

    On the bright side patients could get weed for their anxiety. And Muh Spring Break!

    Ironically Trump tried to be hands-off at the first part of the outbreak in hopes of minimizing the economic impact. But because of Reason’s reflexive “Orange Man Bad” editorial stance they’re saying he botched that, too.

    1. Perhaps there might be a more measured response. Tell people over 65 and those with health problems to stay at home. Help them do so. Let everyone else go on as normal, with the advisory that they must stay away from anyone who looks older than 55.
      Trying to tell people to do what they are told in the face of risks they don’t see as applying to them is futile – like stopping vaping, drug use, or eating too much. They are going to do it anyway. So let them, but try to manage the risks.
      Old people mostly do not work, so them staying at home will have little consequence to the economy. Those with health risks either do not work, or will have to take time off. The general population will get the flu, miss work for a few weeks, and develop the herd immunity the nation needs.

      1. That’s fine in most cases. But none of the activities you list directly impact the health or lives of other people.

        You can stand in line at the store next to someone who is obese or shooting heroin or even vaping and suffer no ill effects to your health, other than temporary personal irritation due to smell or appearance.

        An outbreak of a potentially deadly communicable disease is a different thing altogether. Simply standing in public next to someone can seriously impact your health, and in those instances the government can and should get involved.

        Big, life-altering events like major pandemics tend to cause the good ship Theoretical Libertarianism to crash on the Rocks of Reality. Gillespie and Tuccille can write fanfic about how we would be living in a utopia right now if the gubmint had just left things alone, but in a situation such as this that would have made things worse, not better.

        1. Oh grow up and get some perspective!

          Ebola, SARS, MERS were all predicted to cause millions of deaths. None prompted this kind of panic. None resulted in millions of deaths.

          Might ask yourself why. Start with asking where the panic came from — the media. Ask why they would panic like this but not for Ebola, MERS, SARS. Then ask why governments are going along with the panic.

          Question authority!

          My conspiracy theory is that just as the nuclear winter panic was killed by the end of the Cold War and the fear-mongers had to turn to global warming, so Greta’s free fall was the final proof that AGW panic has run its course. Here was a handy new way to panic the populace into bowing to government control.

          Whether you buy into the full paranoia or not, you are a fool if you think the media and politicians don’t thrive on scaring the populace.

          1. I heartily agree with your assessment of the Media coverage of this pandemic. Almost every Media outlet – including Reason – has slanted their coverage in a way to maximize political damage to Donald Trump. Objective thinking is in short supply among members of our Ruling Classes.

            But that doesn’t change the fact that this is a once-in-a-generation event, one that has the potential to kill millions and change political and social paradigms. There’s no easy answer, no magic bullet, simple policy recommendation that will stop this. Its going to run its course, and the only thing that can be done is to mitigate the damage.

            1. But that doesn’t change the fact that this is a once-in-a-generation event, one that has the potential to kill millions and change political and social paradigms.
              ——-
              Just like all the other flus from China in the last 20 years.

            2. No this is not a once-in-a-generation event. How long ago were Ebola, SARS, MERS? How many millions were each projected to kill?

              Get a grip on reality.

              1. “Get a grip on reality ”

                Excellent advice. You should follow it.

                2014 Ebola outbreak: About 28,000 cases, 16,000 deaths, 10 countries affected

                2012 MERS: about 2,000 cases, 30 countries affected since then

                2003 SARS: about 8,100 cases, 774 deaths, 17 countries affected

                2019 Wuhan Virus: 367,000 cases, 16,000 deaths, 168 countries affected, and no end in sight.

                If you can’t see the difference then you need to pay closer attention.

                1. ^^this

                2. Why did you skip H1N1?

                  1. A regrettable oversight, I’m sure!

                  2. For the simple reason he didn’t mention it in his post. 😉

                    But while H1N1 infected 60 million Americans and caused over 12,000 deaths, it didn’t spread this far or this fast across the globe.

                    While the data clearly show Wuhan virus is not the TEOTWAWKI event the Media portray it to be, it’s not a big Nothingburger, either.

                    1. I’m amazed there are so many of you chicken littles left.

                3. 2018-19 US flu season: 80,000 dead. Did you wet your pants over that? 2016 global pneumonia deaths in kids under 5: 880,000. 90 Americans killed daily in car accidents. Get hysterical about that, and then remind everyone why you’re pissing yourself over 500 deaths in people with pre-existing conditions. Pussy.

                  1. Well the key point is 500 deaths…so far. If this outbreak was limited to that many deaths then yes, I’d agree. But it’s not, and the skyrocketing incidence rates itotal will surely rise significantly over the coming weeks.

                    Now thankfully the US is not experiencing an Italian-style Death-a-Palooza. But that doesn’t mean it won’t be a major event, either.

                    The thing I figured out a few free days ago is that NO ONE, not you, nor I, nor Gillespie, nor the CDC, Trump, Biden, or the Media know exactly where this is going. Everyone’s guessing, and while some guesses are more accurate than others everyone is going to be off to a certain degree.

                    So it’s wiser to avoid categorical statements that will be proven laughably wrong in a few days’ time and instead focus on the real-life data.

                    1. “skyrocketing incidence rates” that go along with skyrocketing testing.
                      About 90% of those deemed sick enough to get tested don’t have the Wuhan flu, but one of the other varieties out there – that cause far more deaths than this one has.
                      The fact that testing only happens to already very sick people distorts any figures you want to cite.
                      Figures of death rates of other flu viruses are based on estimates, as it is. The reliance on actual figures, for Wuhan, when they are known to be unrealistically distorted, shows the bias the media is injecting.

                    2. The fact that testing only happens to already very sick people

                      Do you realize you said that crazy thing in public?

                      Ted Cruz and Rand Paul both tested, with NO symptoms, because they had contact with a known infectee. Rand tested positive and self-isolated, to avoid infecting anyone else.

                      Those are just the best known. Not everyone is so lacking in moral values as you.

                4. seasonal flu 60000

                  1. sepsis 9000000 yes that is nine million. statistically speaking we should all be tested for sepsis

                    1. Neat trick, considering 2.8 million total died in the US in 2018. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

                      Sure you didn’t miss a decimal point or two?

            3. “once-in-a-generation event”

              it has happened 3 times in the last 10 years.

        2. You’re right that doing drugs is totally different from a moral standpoint. But I think Johannes is explaining these policies from the point of view of the average Joe. Many aren’t going to incorporate risks they don’t see. Smoking and drug use pose large personal risks, yet many do them anyway, and the latter is even illegal. If people aren’t taking into account their own risks, why do you expect them to take others’ risks into account? Note that this is a positive statement, not a normative one. We can clutch pearls about how people should be, but it’s wise to deal with us as we are.

      2. Let everyone else go on as normal, with the advisory that they must stay away from anyone who looks older than 55…The general population will get the flu, miss work for a few weeks, and develop the herd immunity the nation needs.

        This is roughly the Lombardy strategy. Except at least in their case, they put the burden on the over-60’s to avoid everyone else rather than on everyone else to avoid the over-60’s.

        Lombardy is now refusing hospital admission to anyone over 60. That means the hospitals and ICU’s are completely full of under-60’s. They can only now admit new patients (under-60) as existing patients (under-60) die.

        This ain’t the fucking flu you old entitled sack of shit.

        1. the fuck it aint because that is exactly what it is. COVID-19 is a corona virus. a ‘flu’ virus (resporatory virus). the death rate from COVID-19 is no higher or lower than any other common corona virus. however it does seem to more readily transmissible. that is COVID-19 calling card. more people will become infected than the seasonal flu. the mortality rate is the same. i agree with the strategy of isolating at risk populations such as immunocompromised etc. however the hysteria is not necessary…a man made global economic depression is not necessary.

          1. Corona viruses and influenza viruses are not the same:

            https://www.cleveland.com/coronavirus/2020/03/is-it-possible-to-catch-the-flu-and-coronavirus-at-the-same-time.html

            Scroll down a little over halfway for this part:

            “Influenza viruses and coronaviruses both attack the respiratory system. The two diseases have symptoms that overlap, including fever, coughing, shortness of breath. In serious cases, infected people can show symptoms including muscle or body pains and dizziness.
            However, they use different receptors – think landing pads – to attach onto cells.
            Influenza uses sialic acid, a sugary acid, to attach to cells while coronavirus uses the ACE2 enzyme, a protein.”

            Would you stop spreading misinformation now?

            1. And that is significant, why?
              The common cold is a corona virus and is shed almost without notice.
              Just because they “land” in different ways doesn’t mean one is worse than the other.
              That argument is getting too far into the weeds.

              1. And that is significant, why?

                Umm, it proves arcaneknowledge full of shit.

                Now YOU go off the rails (again)

                The common cold is a corona virus and is shed almost without notice.

                (yawn) IT’S NOT THE SAME AS THE INFLUENZA VIRUS

              2. It’s significant because some people may read that incorrect information and accept it as true, and then ignore any of the advice and restrictions being put in place because they got their flu shot this year. So, they’ll think they have no risk for COVID-19, and then after they’re infected, they’ll infect others during the long asymptomatic phase. If you think nobody is foolish enough to make decisions like that, then you must have missed the reason.com article about the married couple who drank fish tank cleaner because it has a chemical related to CQ.

                My response had zero to do with which virus is worse, and there was nothing in the post which could be reasonably construed in that way. Misinformation contributes to bad decisions – it matters.

    2. Why would stocks free fall and unemployment skyrocket if there were no quarantine? Quarantine and shelter-in-place are government mandated reductions in productivity and employment.

      Bailing out entities (cities, states, corporations and people) who didn’t plan for a rainy day only ensures people will continue to not plan for rainy days. It ensures more bailouts of irresponsible entities.

      1. I don’t consider the government shooting the economy in the face a “rainy day”. But I don’t disagree with your point.

      2. You might want to check the history of the Dow during the past 30 days. The stock market peaked at 29,551 on February 12th.

        It started cratering on February 21st, about a week before the first quarantines were announced. Investors were spooked by the fact the market was waaay overvalued and the coronavirus pandemic was not going away any time soon.

        Not by states shutting everything down for two weeks, which didn’t start until the first week in March. The current market downturn is as much a result of market forces as it is government action.

        1. No no you’re absolutely right, the market wasn’t reading the writing on the wall regarding a quarantine, no it was the stuff you said.

          God damn you’re an idiot.

          1. Lol, whatever helps you get through the day. The government didn’t tank the Dow; investors did that on their own.

            It’s said there are two emotions in the stock market: fear, and greed. What you are seeing now is what happens when fear takes over completely.

        2. So, in the four weeks before 21st February, China had quarantined Wuhan (11 million people) and just shortly after, Hubei Province; WHO had declared an international public health emergency; Trump had ordered the Chinese travel ban; the Chinese doctor (and whistleblower) who first discovered it had shit the bed; and the Chinese COVID-19 fatalities had _already_ exceeded the entire global death toll from SARS in 2002-2003. Also, China just happens to be where a huge portion of our manufactured crap is made.

          In the days before 21st Feb., COVID-19 cases had surged in South Korea, Iran, and Italy. COVID-19 cases and deaths had been reported in a number of other countries – the first US case had been confirmed weeks before. It looked like the lid was blown off and the pot was boiling over.

          Do you suppose any of that might have motivated savvy investors to pull back from the stock market? Frankly, I’m surprised it took so long for it to start tanking. Analysts on CNBC and elsewhere; had been talking about a market correction for a while at the time, but that had very little to do with the sudden decline in late February.

  6. Very pleased to see Reason pushing back on this insanity. It was obvious to a lot of us weeks that the reaction to what is just a bad flu season was total nonsense. Reason has finally reached the same conclusion but the damage has already been done.

    1. You’re STILL bat-shit crazy
      I’ll TRY to dumb it down

      1) COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu was, before vaccine.

      2) COVID-19 is 5-10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, with a vaccine and 100% exposure

      3) The PURPOSE of preventive measures is to delay full COVID-19 exposure …. until a vaccine can be developed, which will take 12-18 months … and there is now NO proven cure.

      4) Nick (and others) would increase COVID-19 exposure from 5% to ???, as quickly as possible, with no vaccine and no cure.

      5) We are on the same growth curve as Italy, but 10 days behind. On Thursday they had 793 deaths, from 1/5 our population. DO THE MATH. If we stay at that same pace, we will have 4,000 deaths in a single day, by month-end.

      That’s why even TRUMP now supports the most severe restrictions … with federal troops, paid by feds, under the command of state governors.

      TRY to keep up, Gomers
      https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178395

      1. 5-10 times more deadly than the flu (among the elderly) does not warrant shutting down the country. South Korea did not do mass shut downs of their infrastructure, and everyone is saying that they are the shining beacon of hope.

        With the amount of money being thrown down the rat hole here, we could be airlifting bubbles to the elderly in this country. (Hyperbole, I know, but we are talking about trillion dollar bailouts at this point).

        1. s Korea acted EARLY. They didn’t wait around doing nothing and ignoring the problem

          Yes – they and Singapore and Germany and possibly Austria show what could have been had we acted early.

          That is no longer possible. Lombardy is now the model. To either avoid or welcome. And this is the FIRST wave – with months to prepare and implement. The second one – this fall – is the doozy.

          Like everyone else who is denying the problem here, you still think this is the flu. Or that it only affects the old. Which only proves you are – still – incapable of learning. Failure to learn also means Singapore, S Korea, Germany are not remotely achievable for us.

          1. Lombardy is now the model.

            LOL. A province with a median age over 60 years in a country with a shitty socialized healthcare system and literally the only place on planet earth where the virus has had any more than a 1% fatality rate. Of course that’s the model!

            1. Dont forget, they have a huge number of old people living with their younger family as well as a part of their culture.

            2. Iran, and who knows about China, but yeah.

              Let’s see what it does here. It’s not like seniors handle flu epidemics very well either.

          2. Like everyone else who is denying the problem here, you still think this is the flu. Or that it only affects the old.

            Hey dumbfuck, I’ll spell it out for you–in Italy, which is getting hit harder than anyone else, the average age of those dying is 78.5. No, this is NOT worth shutting down the economy. Lotsa left-wing bougies right now getting their rocks off on threatening to snitch on violators to their Government Overlords, because their neighbors dared to go outside and get some fresh air.

            But since you Chicken Little authoritarian assholes decided this was the way to go, here’s some actual reality for you–these “shelter-in-place” and “essential business” orders have an expiration date. It’s not based on the number of cases, and it’s not based on “flattening the curve” or whatever media buzzwords you want to parrot. It’s based on the pure fucking fact that you CANNOT force people to stay in their homes for long before they start pushing back on you, and HARD.

            The Imperial College gave the game away when they recommended 18 months of this shit. Doctors are saying we may need to do this bullshit through the summer. Guess what–neither is going to happen. It’s not even April yet, and people are already defying these draconian lockdown measures. Why? Because people are social creatures, and for all the talk about “science!”, these galaxy-brains have notably developed a blind spot on that. They actually believe that the government will be able to force 330 million people to self-quarantine for “as long as necessary.”

            Bullshit. You Chicken Littles have a month, maybe two, to get your shit together and tell people that they can go back to work, or you’re going to start seeing shit that’s a lot worse than a bunch of oldsters dying of a stronger flu bug. Increased domestic violence from family members being around each other non-stop. Suicides from depression and cabin fever. Assaults as people get desperate to meet their basic daily needs. And you want to panic-monger about an elevated mortality rate that primarily is killing people who would have been susceptible to it anyway? Get the fuck out of here and wake the fuck up, because you don’t have the luxury of guilting people into staying inside forever.

            1. At some point, the market is going to breakthrough and give people the ability to test at home. If people realize that they’ve already had this and gotten over it without knowing, and lack of testing made them stay home for a month and lose their jobs……..

            2. All of this, but I’m more pessimistic than Red Rocks. I give it two weeks or less. The desire to maintain it isn’t helped by shit like seniors still doing their normal daily routine. Or by cities using this as an excuse to let every asshole out of jail that bail reform didn’t already. Or by people going, “Holy fuck. I’m going to lose my house if this keeps up.”

              We cannot meaningfully lower the curve. Unless the cocktail or something else works really well as a cure. That means we’re going to take a lot of pain—warehousing the sick in high school gyms, actual real triage, people dying for lack of a bed—until the peak passes.

              The economic effects of a total shutdown are still worse. And I’m one of the people who thought, pre cocktail, that this would smoke about 1-2 million Americans.

            3. have a month, maybe two, to get your shit together and tell people that they can go back to work, or you’re going to start seeing shit that’s a lot worse than a bunch of oldsters dying of a stronger flu bug.

              That is fucking obvious. It is why this is going to be TWO waves. Which I have been saying for well over a month now. And the first wave (which we are in now) is the nothingburger one.

              1. Oh, Christ. It’s fucking obvious? No, you’re completely fucking clueless about it.

                I’ll tell you one more time–this “wave” that you’re going on about is an economy-wrecker if governments keep it going for very long. It has FUCK ALL to do with your stupid “curve-flattening.” It’s COMPLETELY POLITICAL. It doesn’t mean jack shit whether there’s a “second wave” or not, because people are already going to shit the bed if you tell them they have to stay indoors through the summer or even 2018 just to head off a second wave.

                1. *or even 2021.

                  1. What effect did Ebola have on the economy?
                    This is even worse.

                    1. Ebola’s effect on the economy was nil, you idiot. Shutting it down for any longer than a couple of months means you’re going to end up as dog food.

                    2. Like Trump you invent whatever LIES you need, plus some infantile name-calling … EVERY TIME YOU LOSE ON THE ISSUES AND FACTS

                      FORBES SAYS YOU’RE FULL OF CRAP … YET AGAIN

                      this was in the midst of Ebola

                      The deadly virus, boasting a fatality rate of over 70%, has the ability to awaken an international panic. … the effects of Ebola will continue to hamper the economy through reduced air travel, slower production in western Africa, and increased volatility due to the fear the disease radiates.

                      ***Airlines have rebounded from their precipitous drop at the peak of the Ebola scare when United and Delta were down 16% and 18%, respectively, over a span of three weeks (September 23 to October 13th).

                      A longer term consequence of the Ebola outbreak is the damage it has done to the economies of western Africa. Liberia, recovering from a brutal civil war, has been hit the hardest as the UN predicts that Ebola will shave off at least 2% of the country’s GDP. Quarantines and travel restrictions have brought production within the country to a complete halt …

                      ****On October 15th, the same day the CDC announced that an Ebola infected nurse could have infected up to 300 people, the Dow plummeted as much as 370 points.

                      ****The link between the market volatility and Ebola demonstrates the fear that the follows the outbreak. If Ebola cases continue to pop up, fear will heighten and the markets will be affected.

                      Yet the economic effects of the virus will linger. It will take years for West Africa to recover from this setback. The UN predicts it will cost $2 billion to contain Ebola, and that figure does not even include the amount of economic activity lost to Ebola’s presence.

                      As Ebola has demonstrated, Liberia’s problem is our problem

                      Yet people continue to fear the virus and the stock market responds to this fear.

                      So….

                      you idiot

                      …. Just like Trump.

                2. The utter bullshit that Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins was citing in support of his home confinement order has convinced me. I’m at the conclusion that, while it might have started as a public health measure, its actual purpose that city leaders are working towards is precisely to wreck the economy. There’s no other way to get Trump out than to prevent him and his coattail-riders from running on a great economy. So, make sure he won’t have a great economy to point to.

                  Those leaders are absolutely fucking evil. It’s rapidly becoming apparent that this country isn’t big enough for the both of us.

        2. PROOF how crazy they are!
          5-10 times more deadly than the flu (among thE elderly) does not warrant shutting down the country. OVERALL, NOT THE ELDERLY, GOMER
          SEASONAL FLU HAS A VACCINE AND MEDICATION. COVID HAS NEITHER

          AND YOU’RE A LYING SACK OF SHIT.
          ONE MORE TIME FOR GOMERS

          1) COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu was, before vaccine.

          2) COVID-19 is 5-10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, with a vaccine and 100% exposure

          3) The PURPOSE of preventive measures is to delay full COVID-19 exposure …. until a vaccine can be developed, which will take 12-18 months … and there is now NO proven cure.

          4) Nick (and others) would increase COVID-19 exposure from 5% to ???, as quickly as possible, with no vaccine and no cure.

          5) We are on the same growth curve as Italy, but 10 days behind. On Thursday they had 793 deaths, from 1/5 our population. DO THE MATH. If we stay at that same pace, we will have 4,000 deaths in a single day, by month-end.

          That’s why even TRUMP now supports the most severe restrictions … with federal troops, paid by feds, under the command of state governors

          Also IGNORANT hereL

          With the amount of money being thrown down the rat hole here, we could be airlifting bubbles to the elderly in this country. (Hyperbole, I know, but we are talking about trillion dollar bailouts at this point).

          Not hyperbole STUPIDITY
          YOUNGER AMERICANS ARE JUST AS LIKELY TO BE INFECTED … JUST AS LIKELY TO SPREAD THE DISEASE … BUT YOU DON’T GIVE A SHIT.

          ****AND THE LINK YOU REFUSED TO CLICK SHOWS THAT EVEN TRUMP NOW SUPPORTS THE MOST SEVERE RESTRICTIONS … NOW PAYS FOR FEDERAL TROOPS TO BE UNDER THE COMMAND OF GOVERNORS IN WA, NY AND WA..

          THAT MAKES YOUR “MENTALITY” THE MOST SEVERE THREAT TO AMERICAN SUFFERING AND DEATH … AS EVEN TRUMP FINALLY ADMITS.

          1. Hahahahahahahahaha

            So fun to watch you shit your pants in fear that you’re going to die from this you old piece of shit.

            1. Val, my crazed stalker, has been CALLED OUT AS A PSYCHO LIAR … CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

              https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

              Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat! *smirk*

              YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
              (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

      2. Stop lying

        1. Stop lying

          *sneer*
          Shoulda clicked the link, Gomer.

          TRUMP now supports the most extreme restrictions … PAYING for federal troops to assist CA, NY and WA … UNDER THE COMMAND OF STATE GOVERNORS.

          Now, wipe the egg off your puss.

          1. You mean the Trump liar Russian intelligence asset who needed to be removed from office 2 weeks ago Mikey? LOL. So fun watching you writhe like a pathetic bitch.

            1. Val, my crazed stalker, has been CALLED OUT AS A PSYCHO LIAR … CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

              https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

              Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat! *smirk*

              YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
              (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

    2. Nick got it right this time.

        1. Damn Mikey, now that you’ve linked to your own deranged rantings for the 47th time in this thread I completely see your point. Turns out you’re not a senile old piece of shit panicking like a pathetic bitch because you know you’re on death’s door. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

          1. Val … now a crazed stalker, all down the page, has been CALLED OUT AS A PSYCHO LIAR … CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

            https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

            Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat! *smirk*

            YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
            (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

  7. we should put in a marker to come back to these questions whenever life returns to normal.

    If life returns to normal. Shut down the economy long enough and the only “solution” that the morons who shut everything down in the first place will be able to come up with is to “stimulus harder” forever and ever.

    1. NMT by the back door.

  8. The politicians in Washington are telling Americans, as they always do, that they are riding to the rescue by writing checks to individuals and offering loans to business.

    Also, it appears that’s all they’re doing: Telling. They’re not actually doing any of what they’re saying. Although I’m confident eventually they’ll slather on enough pork to get something passed.

    1. The Ds are holding out for increased public sector union privileges, more solar and wind subsidies, and higher jet fuel taxes…

      1. Liar

        1. Lol, the corona is a-comin’ to gitcha Mikey! Run and hide you pathetic old bitch!

          1. Val … now a crazed stalker, all down the page, has been CALLED OUT AS A PSYCHO LIAR … CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

            https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

            Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat! *smirk*

            YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
            (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

      2. Better no relief than relief with permanent damage.

  9. It’s funny, but I think my biggest takeaway from the COVID-19 is the stark showing of just how pessimistic and doomsday literally all reporting is anymore. Every news and opinion site (but I repeat myself) that I go to is complaining about Dems, or complaining about Repubs, or complaining because Trump is a tyrant, or complaining that Trump isn’t enough of a tyrant, or complaining about healthcare, or complaining about actions of the government to try and help, or complaining that it’s not enough money, or complaining that it is too much money.

    And on top of that, our complaining is very much based mostly on projection complaining. People prognosticating that what we are doing now is sure to ruin the future. Everything is always going to result in worse in the future. It’s no wonder why dire accounts of global warming take hold, we love to be told that the future is going to be worse. Even though, throughout the history of humankind, peoples’ lives have constantly gotten better to the point the we live in the best times that have ever existed.

    I would love for a capitalism, free-market site to devote at least some space to the awesome adaptation that people and the market are capable. How quick distilleries changed over to making hand sanitizer, how restaurants started selling produce and cut to order meat, and so forth.

    It is a bad time that we are in, but these constant Monday morning quarterback articles (while it’s still Sunday afternoon, btw) that preach doom and gloom that after the virus life is going to be terrible are just becoming an annoying dime a dozen.

    Just stop; enough with our media and social behavior of overly-ambitious complaining about everything!

    1. “And on top of that, our complaining is very much based mostly on projection complaining”

      ^this
      And Reason is as guilty as anybody.

      The progressive world view (fantasy is more important, and more real, than reality) has really taken over

    2. Let’s see, when the Italy numbers start going down, if the “biggest death count evah!” headlines get replaced with “good news, everyone!” headlines. I highly doubt it.

      1. Huh?

        1. That’s Hihn; don’t expect any intelligence.

          1. Did you notice him and JFree are using the exact same talking points?

            1. Free is intelligible. I disagree with him/her on some things, but I can have a conversation.

              I don’t even bother with Hihn. Or whoever that is.

        2. Huh?

          Since you’re too stupid to click a link.
          And Sevo is a psycho.

          1) Trump has FINALLY endorsed the most severe restrictions.
          2) Trump SUPPORTS the most severe restrictions.
          3) Trump will PAY FOR FEDERAL TROOPS to assist the efforts in CA, NY and WA … UNDER COMMAND OF THE STATE GOVERNORS, BUT PAID BY FEDERAL.

          Or …. Google “Trump National Guard” — pick any source — and TRY to keep up with intelligent humanity

          1. I clicked the link, I just have no idea what your rant has to do with my post. When commenting, it’s best to stay on subject.

            1. LiberyTruthTeller is a pathetic old bitch named Michael Hihn who is dying of senile dementia on public assistance in a state-funded old age home who passes his time by licking doorknobs, eating his own shit, and repeatedly posting the same bullshit dozens or hundreds of times a day on Reason. He’s going to be dead soon, so just ignore him.

              1. Val … now a crazed stalker, has been CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

                https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

                Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat! *smirk*

                YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
                (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

            2. I clicked the link, I just have no idea what your rant has to do with my post.

              Your post said, “HUH?”
              If you DID click the link, you’re too fucking stupid to grasp Breitbart.
              And I cannot dumb it down any lower.

              Even TRUMP says Gillespie is wrong. Reported by BREITBART, NOT MSNBC:
              Trump has now endorsed even the most severe restrictions by state governors … and will pay to help their enforcement.

              TRUMP ACTIVATES NATIONAL GUARD IN CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON TO HELP ENFORCE STATE RESTRICTIONS … FEDERAL PAYS, GOVERNORS IN COMMAND

              President Donald Trump announced at the White House on Sunday that he had activated the National Guard in California, New York, and Washington.

              “I know that this is a challenging time for all Americans. We are enduring a great national trial,” Trump said. “We’re at war. In a true sense, we’re at war.”

              It’s NOT a Democrat hoax?? NOW he tells us!

              Trump said that he activated the National Guard under Title 32 status, allowing the guard to remain under the control of the governor, but is paid for by the federal government.

              Officials clarified that activating the National Guard would provide important resources to governors, but that it was playing an assistant role in the fight against the virus.

              “I want you to understand, this is not martial law,” FEMA Administrator Peter Gaynor said.

              (If martial law, the troops would be in charge.)

              Trump deserves praise, for publicly reversing two months of delays, denials and blatant lies.
              Now, his alt-right cult remains the only national threat greater than COVID-19. They’re all alone.

              ****WHY IS THIS ROCKET SCIENCE TO YOU AND VAL VENIS?

              1) COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu was, before vaccine.

              2) COVID-19 is 5-10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, with a vaccine and 100 exposure

              3) Nick (and others) would increase COVID-19 exposure from 5% to ???, with no vaccine and no cure.

              ****4) The PURPOSE of preventive measures is to delay full COVID-19 exposure …. until a vaccine can be developed, which will take 12-18 months … and there is now NO proven cure.

              DUH

              1. I’ll explain slower for the hard of hearing: your post had nothing to do with my initial comment. Thus, why I said “huh.” But, after reading your postings here, it’s clear that you are just overly gifted at posting A Beautiful Mind type of lunatic responses.

                1. UMMMMMMM

                  BILL GATES PREDICTED A VIRUS CATASTROPHE …. IN 2015

                  “We are not ready for the next epidemic,” said Gates in 2015. (He) mentioned the details about Ebola and stated that “the problem was not that system did not work well enough but the problem was we did not have any system at all.”

                  In the Ted Talk titled ‘The next outbreak? We’re not ready’, Bill Gates predicted that the next outbreak would be more devastating than Ebola.

                  “The failure to prepare could allow the next epidemic to be dramatically more devastating than Ebola.”

                  Gates cited the fact that Ebola did not reach many urban cities or else the results would have been greater. “Next time we might not be so lucky,” His words have somehow predicted the Coronavirus epidemic’s dangers.

                  COVID-19 has barely begun … and has ALREADY hit major urban centers, worldwide.

                  President Trump deserves praise for reversing two months of delays and denials ,… “It’s a Democrat hoax” … “It will magically disappear.”

                  The President now endorses and supports the severe restrictions by governors in CA, NY and WA … He has activated the National Guard in those states … paid by federal .. but under command of the governors. And he’s shut down his new critics, saying he will watch results for 15 days, before any further decisions.

                  He’s even considering a special enrollment period for Obamacare, to help uninsured Americans cope with this crisis.

                  1. Serious question for you: Are you aware that you post weapons grade lunacy, or after you post do you sit back and think, “now that is a cogent, rational, well phrased comment?”

                    1. Raving lunatics rarely recognized their own lunacy.

          2. Dude, points #1 and #2 are essentially the same thing. As for point #3, which you have repeated here ad nauseum, the National Guard is not federal troops, even when their mobilization is funded by the federal government.

    3. I think one difference is the shift from newspapers and local TV news to internet sites with a global audience. When news was local, no matter how poorly things were reported, it was at least a local audience of sorts, and easier for the “reporters” to relate to their audience. The size of the audience was relatively fixed; no one in Chicago cared what the Los Angeles Times reported.

      Now that all news sites are competing for the same global audience, all that matters is having scarier “news” to get a higher google ranking.

      I think this will taper off in a generation. People are still new to this internet thing, still trying to find reliable news sources. It will take a while for cultures to adjust. But that is just a guess, no real logic behind it.

      1. How, exactly, did President Trump get suckered by “scary” news?

    4. Short version:

      EVERYTHING IS SO TERRIBLE AND UNFAIR!!!!!!

      Haha

      1. Haha

        BILL GATES PREDICTED A VIRUS CATASTROPHE …. IN 2015

        “We are not ready for the next epidemic,” said Gates in 2015. (He) mentioned the details about Ebola and stated that “the problem was not that system did not work well enough but the problem was we did not have any system at all.”

        In the Ted Talk titled ‘The next outbreak? We’re not ready’, Bill Gates predicted that the next outbreak would be more devastating than Ebola.

        “The failure to prepare could allow the next epidemic to be dramatically more devastating than Ebola.”

        Gates cited the fact that Ebola did not reach many urban cities or else the results would have been greater. “Next time we might not be so lucky,” His words have somehow predicted the Coronavirus epidemic’s dangers.

        COVID-19 has barely begun … and has ALREADY hit major urban centers, worldwide.

        President Trump deserves praise for reversing two months of delays and denials ,… “It’s a Democrat hoax” … “It will magically disappear.”

        The President now endorses and supports the severe restrictions by governors in CA, NY and WA … He has activated the National Guard in those states … paid by federal .. but under command of the governors. And he’s shut down his new critics, saying he will watch results for 15 days, before any further decisions.

        He’s even considering a special enrollment period for Obamacare, to help uninsured Americans cope with this crisis.

  10. So Trump, being the FU President, might be the right person for that office with the ability to embrace this contrarian argument and start to push back on the Fascist idiocy sweeping the country.

    Talk about irony.

    1. HEY, GOMER, IS THERE NO NEWS IN YOUR DEEP, DARK CAVE?
      TRUMP HAS ENDORSED WHAT YOU CALL “FASCIST LUNACY” … SUPPORTS IT, AND EVEN HELPS FINANCE IT!!

      WHY? Educate yourself. If possible.
      https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178395

      1. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Nothing more fun than watching a pathetic old bitch on his death bed running around like a headless chicken in panic and fear about a virus. You’re likely going to die it from Mikey, but does it really matter? You had maybe a few more months before the dementia took you out anyway.

        1. Val … a crazed stalker … has been CALLED OUT AS A PSYCHO LIAR … CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

          https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

          Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat! *smirk*

          YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
          (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

    2. “Calls for a federal order—resisted so far by President Donald Trump in the name of letting states and cities respond to local conditions”

      — He is a great President in so many ways. Actually trying to defend the dual federalism structure of the U.S. Constitution from monarchy fascist death.

  11. One reason article I quite heartedly agree with. A lot of people are not taking the big picture into effect and think that stopping this virus and every death from it is the only objective. Time to put in place actual plans to right the entire ship and fight against all the ills to include the virus, economic issues, and societal issues.

    1. “A lot of people are not taking the big picture into effect and think that stopping this virus and every death from it is the only objective.”

      Off to a good start…

      “Time to put in place actual plans to right the entire ship and fight against all the ills to include the virus, economic issues, and societal issues.”

      And then off the rails!

    2. “fight against all the ills to include… societal issues

      What you and I regard as societal ills is probably very different.

        1. Hahahahahahahahahahahahah, coming from Mikey the pathetic terrified bitch who freely admits that he eats his own shit. LOL

  12. In the aviation industry, they estimate how many lives a proposed safety measure will save, then multiply that by an assigned value for a person’s life (I think $3 million). If the cost of the fix is more then the life value, then they don’t do the fix. It would be cold, but we could do a similar cost-befit analysis for our stay-at-home measures.

    1. It’s not just the aviation industry, stop being so parochial.

      And you haven’t kept up. It’s doubled or tripled since you last checked.

  13. “The government botched the early response to coronavirus”

    What does this even mean?
    This magazine would’ve lost it if taxpayer funded testing and the current measures were put in place at the end of January.
    I suspect by ‘botched’ you actually mean a big pile of innuendo and assumption and implication used to assert opportunistic outrage.

    1. “end of January”
      This magazine and its writers were still clutching at their pearls about how Trump may not be impeached. They couldnt have focused on anything else.

    2. You know how the CDC fucked up the tests and left us completely in the dark for a few weeks, in which the government crashed the economy and handed trillions to the banks?

      That’s botched.

      1. *SMIRK*
        DON LEMON SAYS TRUMP IS GASLIGHTING YOU … AND ROLLS THE TAPE.

        Lemon is usually too snarky for me, but this is DEVASTATING … MANY video clips … crushing Trump’s lies with Trump’s own words..

        **Trump NOW says he always knew it was a pandemic.
        Did YOU get suckered?

        ***In February Trump said it’s a Democrat hoax … AND a pandemic??! (smirk)
        Did YOU swallow that psycho lie?

        Trumpsters SCREAM in rage, “FAKE NEWS. HE NEVER SAID THAT”. See THAT fuckup of Trump’s at 2:23 in the video. (roflmao)
        Plus over a dozen clips of him saying the virus no problem … AT THE SAME TIME HE KNEW IT WAS A PANDEMIC??
        Did YOU get suckered AGAIN?
        .

        The damage from Trump’s delay, if you haven’t seen it explained:
        On average, each infected person infects two more. So the longer we don’t avoid crowds, stores, workplaces, the more the virus expands exponentially, where each one infection becomes 3 … each 3 becomes 9 … each 9 becomes 27, etc. And one can be a carrier, UNKNOWN (no symptoms) for up to 14 days.
        Sorry, Trumptards, but younger people are as dangerous a carrier as the older folks. As likely to infect … and kill … others.

        Dr. Sonjay Gupta says we’re escalating at the same rate as Italy, but 10 days behind.

        ***Yesterday, Italy had 793 deaths, in a country 1/5 our population. And we’ve been on the same curve. If we continue at our current pace, we’ll have 4,000 deaths in a single day, by month-end
        Umm, 793 x 5 = 3,965.

        Italy is way ahead of China on total deaths … caused by delays and indecision (a lot fewer than Trump’s foul ups)

        Per the Deep State and Vast Media Conspiracy, of course. 🙂

  14. Even TRUMP says Gillespie is wrong. From BREITBART, NOT MSNBC:
    Trump has now endorsed even the most severe restrictions by state governors … and will pay to help their enforcement.

    Even Trump has wisened up
    1) COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu was, before vaccine.
    2) COVID-19 is 5-10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, with a vaccine and 100 exposure
    3) The PURPOSE of preventive measures is to minimize full COVID-19 exposure …. until a vaccine can be developed, which will take 12-18 months … and there is now NO proven cure.
    4) Nick (and others) would increase COVID-19 exposure from 5% to ????, as quickly as possible, with no vaccine and no cure.
    5) Nick (and others) would accelerate certain recession to certain depression.
    6) Placing “economics” above human life is one reason that Cato survey found the libertarian label REJECTED by 91% of Americans who self-identify with libertarian values. LibertarianISM rejected by libertarIANS = “a libertarian moment!”

    TRUMP ACTIVATES NATIONAL GUARD IN CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON TO HELP ENFORCE STATE RESTRICTIONS … FEDERAL PAYS, GOVERNORS IN COMMAND

    President Donald Trump announced at the White House on Sunday that he had activated the National Guard in California, New York, and Washington.

    “I know that this is a challenging time for all Americans. We are enduring a great national trial,” Trump said. “We’re at war. In a true sense, we’re at war.”

    It’s NOT a Democrat hoax?? NOW he tells us!

    Trump said that he activated the National Guard under Title 32 status,
    allowing the guard to remain under the control of the governor, but is paid for by the federal government.

    Officials clarified that activating the National Guard would provide important resources to governors, but that it was playing an assistant role in the fight against the virus.

    “I want you to understand, this is not martial law,” FEMA Administrator Peter Gaynor said.

    (If martial law, the troops would be in charge.)

    Trump deserves praise, for publicly reversing two months of delays, denials and blatant lies.
    Now, his alt-right cult remains the only national threat greater than COVID-19.
    Why does Nick stand with THEM?

    1. I’m sorry, I wasn’t listening.

      1. PROUD TO DENY REALITY = GOMER

        1. Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

          1. Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

            THAT’S WHY I LINK TO THE PROOF, DUDE.
            BEFORE YOU HUMILIATED YOURSELF

            P.S. THE PROOF WAS PUBLISHED BY BREITBART!!
            *snort*

            1. OMG MIKEY! NOW THAT I’VE READ YOUR LINK I AM TERRIFIED THAT I WILL DIE OF A VIRUS THAT EXCLUSIVELY KILLS DECREPIT OLD PIECES OF SHIT IN NURSING HOMES WHO LICK DOORKNOBS AND EAT THEIR OWN SHIT! YOU WERE RIGHT!!!!!!!

              1. My crazed stalker … Val … has been CALLED OUT AS A PSYCHO LIAR … CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

                https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

                Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat! *smirk*

                YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
                (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

                1. This aggression will not stand, man.

                  1. This aggression will not stand, man.

                    That’s why YOUR aggression was PROVEN bullshit, Dude.

                    1. You’re out of your element!

                    2. He’s also a raving lunatic.

                      The nurses draw straws for who has to clean all the spittle of his keyboard.

            2. I’m the dude, so thats what you call me. That or, uh his Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino, if you’re not into the whole brevity thing.

              1. DH
                Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

                THAT’S WHY I LINK TO THE PROOF, DUDE.
                BEFORE YOU HUMILIATED YOURSELF

                P.S. THE PROOF WAS PUBLISHED BY BREITBART!!
                *snort*

                I’m the dude, so thats what you call me. That or, uh his Dudeness, or Duder, or El Duderino, if you’re not into the whole brevity thing.

                I’m “into” exposing infantile Gomers, who fuck up before even seeing the proof
                *smirk*

                1. It’s always funny when Hihn is having a completely different conversation than who he’s talking to, and he’s the only on that doesn’t realize it.

                  At least he’s not yelling at bots this time.

  15. there is no amount of money that can make up for losses of the magnitude we are facing if this extends for several more weeks.

    “Oh, very well. Make it $1.5 *quadrillion*!”

    1. If it saves one life.

    2. “Oh, very well. Make it $1.5 *quadrillion*!”

      Let’s see if I can dumb it down enough …

      BILL GATES PREDICTED A VIRUS CATASTROPHE …. IN 2015

      “We are not ready for the next epidemic,” said Gates in 2015. (He) mentioned the details about Ebola and stated that “the problem was not that system did not work well enough but the problem was we did not have any system at all.”

      In the Ted Talk titled ‘The next outbreak? We’re not ready’, Bill Gates predicted that the next outbreak would be more devastating than Ebola.

      “The failure to prepare could allow the next epidemic to be dramatically more devastating than Ebola.”

      Gates cited the fact that Ebola did not reach many urban cities or else the results would have been greater. “Next time we might not be so lucky,” His words have somehow predicted the Coronavirus epidemic’s dangers.

      COVID-19 has barely begun … and has ALREADY hit major urban centers, worldwide.

      President Trump deserves praise for reversing two months of delays and denials ,… “It’s a Democrat hoax” … “It will magically disappear.”

      The President now endorses and supports the severe restrictions by governors in CA, NY and WA … He has activated the National Guard in those states … paid by federal .. but under command of the governors. And he’s shut down his new critics, saying he will watch results for 15 days, before any further decisions.

      He’s even considering a special enrollment period for Obamacare, to help uninsured Americans cope with this crisis.

  16. It won’t be popular to call attention to the possiblity that such actions might be an overreaction. But it’s a serious point, even if that sentiment has no hopes of carrying the day.

    No it is not a serious point you fucking tool. It might be a serious point if you were basing it on something other than sentiment or ideological adherence to some notion that the govts responsibility is to support donor-class balance sheets at all costs in order to avoid paying attention to anything unpleasant.

    The US govt did not even remotely ‘lead’ any action here. It has lagged the financial markets. It lagged the transparent and quite overnight ECONOMIC changes in supply/demand. We are in for a big recession in large part because we’ve spent 30 years desperately fighting that possibility. And the result was that we are apparently incapable of even recognizing disruptive change now.

    Well guess what. Disruptive change is here. DEAL WITH IT you fucking snowflake

    1. Gee, we must all suffer a horrible financial melt down since fucking cowards like JFree are worried about a cold.
      Stuff your panic flag up your ass so your head has some company.

      1. How’s your 401k 301k 201k doing? I hope your stocked up on dog food for your retirement

        1. “How’s your 401k 301k 201k doing? I hope your stocked up on dog food for your retirement”

          I haven’t lost a penny, in spite of assholes like you are doing your damndest to ruin the economy in general.
          I hope you end up destitute; you deserve nothing less.

          1. Even TRUMP has rejected Sevo’s bullshit.

            PROOF published by BREITBART … not MSNBC *smirk*

            https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178395

            1. MIKEY HAS SHIT HIS PANTS! BUT THIS TIME IT’S NOT BECAUSE OF NORMAL INCONTINENCE! IT’S BECAUSE HE’S A PATHETIC TERRIFIED WOMANLY LITTLE BITCH COWERING IN THE CORNER OF HIS ROOM WAITING FOR THE ORDERLIES TO COME CHANGE HIS NAPPY!

              1. Adult?

                MIKEY HAS SHIT HIS PANTS! BUT THIS TIME IT’S NOT BECAUSE OF NORMAL INCONTINENCE! IT’S BECAUSE HE’S A PATHETIC TERRIFIED WOMANLY LITTLE BITCH COWERING IN THE CORNER OF HIS ROOM WAITING FOR THE ORDERLIES TO COME CHANGE HIS NAPPY!

                You lose AGAIN!

                BILL GATES PREDICTED A VIRUS CATASTROPHE …. IN 2015

                “We are not ready for the next epidemic,” said Gates in 2015. (He) mentioned the details about Ebola and stated that “the problem was not that system did not work well enough but the problem was we did not have any system at all.”

                In the Ted Talk titled ‘The next outbreak? We’re not ready’, Bill Gates predicted that the next outbreak would be more devastating than Ebola.

                “The failure to prepare could allow the next epidemic to be dramatically more devastating than Ebola.”

                Gates cited the fact that Ebola did not reach many urban cities or else the results would have been greater. “Next time we might not be so lucky,” His words have somehow predicted the Coronavirus epidemic’s dangers.

                COVID-19 has barely begun … and has ALREADY hit major urban centers, worldwide.

                President Trump deserves praise for reversing two months of delays and denials ,… “It’s a Democrat hoax” … “It will magically disappear.”
                The President now endorses and supports the severe restrictions by governors in CA, NY and WA … He has activated the National Guard in those states … paid by federal .. but under command of the governors. And he’s shut down his new critics, saying he will watch results for 15 days, before any further decisions.

                He’s even considering a special enrollment period for Obamacare, to help uninsured Americans cope with this crisis.

        2. I actually believe that JFree is panic selling. So he actually does have losses.

    2. The US govt did not even remotely ‘lead’ any action here. It has lagged the financial markets. It lagged the transparent and quite overnight ECONOMIC changes in supply/demand. We are in for a big recession in large part because we’ve spent 30 years desperately fighting that possibility. And the result was that we are apparently incapable of even recognizing disruptive change now.

      Well, try explaining it to us, because so far, you’re just stating your conclusions, not making arguments.

      1. Even TRUMP has rejected the blazing ignorance of NOYB2

        PROOF, as published by BREITBART…. not MSNBC *smirk*
        https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178395

        1. Mikey proves yet again that he once posted a link exposing himself as a pathetic terrified bitch who can’t face his impending death with the slightest shred of dignity!

          1. My crazed stalker … Val … has been CALLED OUT AS A PSYCHO LIAR … CHALLENGED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

            https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178846

            Be specific. so I can jam the proof down your throat! *smirk*

            YOUR CHOICE> Whiny pussy? Or a crushed bullshitter?
            (with the trash mouth of a 12-year-old)

        2. Go lick a door know.

          1. Go lick a door knob.

            *smirk*

            BILL GATES PREDICTED A VIRUS CATASTROPHE …. IN 2015

            “We are not ready for the next epidemic,” said Gates in 2015. (He) mentioned the details about Ebola and stated that “the problem was not that system did not work well enough but the problem was we did not have any system at all.”

            In the Ted Talk titled ‘The next outbreak? We’re not ready’, Bill Gates predicted that the next outbreak would be more devastating than Ebola.

            “The failure to prepare could allow the next epidemic to be dramatically more devastating than Ebola.”

            Gates cited the fact that Ebola did not reach many urban cities or else the results would have been greater. “Next time we might not be so lucky,” His words have somehow predicted the Coronavirus epidemic’s dangers.

            COVID-19 has barely begun … and has ALREADY hit major urban centers, worldwide.

            President Trump deserves praise for reversing two months of delays and denials ,… “It’s a Democrat hoax” … “It will magically disappear.”
            The President now endorses and supports the severe restrictions by governors in CA, NY and WA … He has activated the National Guard in those states … paid by federal .. but under command of the governors. And he’s shut down his new critics, saying he will watch results for 15 days, before any further decisions.

            He’s even considering a special enrollment period for Obamacare, to help uninsured Americans cope with this crisis.

            1. The President now endorses and supports the severe restrictions by governors in CA, NY

              The president is an idiot. But then so are you. That’s probably why you like his actions so much.

    3. Look at jfree, pimping for the largest transnational corporations and celebrating the death of small businesses

      1. Even TRUMP has rejected the blazing ignorance of Nardz!

        PROOF, as published by BREITBART…. not MSNBC *smirk*
        https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178395

        1. PROOF that Mikey is a pants shitting pathetic bitch who needs big daddy gubmint to protect him from the coronavirus so he can live an extra 3 weeks before he dies from senile dementia!

      2. The opposite. I oppose all of this stimulus and corporate bailout shit. So far we are doing the same shit we did in 2008. Bailout the big in order to kill the small.

        Small businesses will – assuming they have not been dependent on the same delusional nonsense of subsidized money as the big – be able to make the changes they need to make going forward.

        But the notion that they can just keep doing what they’ve been doing ain’t happening. Or sit at home whining about what was? Get your head out of your ass. This ain’t the fucking flu. There are huge new demands in this economy. And for the first time in a couple decades – a workforce that is eager to change jobs in order to both earn a living and serve the needs of customers in their community.

        God you people all deserve Darwin awards.

        1. Small businesses will – assuming they have not been dependent on the same delusional nonsense of subsidized money as the big – be able to make the changes they need to make going forward.
          ———————–
          Yes lots of small businesses can close for months and simply open afterward.

          1. Any small business that has to close up for the next few months is simply admitting it has no interest in meeting what is very clearly in customer demand right now. Can’t retool for face masks? Can’t use purchasing skills to be a supply distribution center for your neighborhood? Can’t find out how many hospital beds might be needed at your local hospital in the next few weeks and construct them?

            I agree there are a ton of small businesses who will sit and home and whine about what used to be. Now get off my lawn.

            1. Yes my friend’s game store is well-suited to shifting to mask production. Oh, and his business is closed by order of the king. I doubt they are processing new business licenses, so he’d be breaking the law anyway.

              1. Prada is as of a few days ago making surgical gowns and masks – in serious volume – in Tuscany.

                A book store and a restaurant near me distributed flyers last week for a combined delivery of meals, books, office supplies, and frequent grocery stuff to neighbors.

                But hey I’m sure whining about gummint, playing victim, and ignoring that the root cause here is the virus (which ain’t going away bud) is an entrepreneurial strategy too.

            2. This could be the stupidest take in the history of language.

              1. It is one of the dumber ones I’ve seen. How exactly are all of these services small businesses like restaurants, nail salons, gyms, etc…supposed to retool to take part in the opportunities available to fight this crisis? Especially when the fist of local government is telling all of the workers who’d be in these businesses, that they have to stay home.

        2. This ain’t the fucking flu.

          Quite true. The flu killed 20,000 people this year. This won’t kill that many in 100 years.

          1. OTHER THAN VAL … WHO ELSE HAS NEVER HEARD OF THE … FLU VACCINE? (lol)

            COVID-19 5X MORE DEADLY THAN SEASONAL FLU
            WHO TELLS VAL THAT *EVERYONE* IS IMMUNED TO COVID-19

            ****WHY IS THIS ROCKET SCIENCE TO GOMERS?

            1) COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu was, before vaccine.

            2) COVID-19 is 5-10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, with a vaccine and 100 exposure

            3) Val would increase COVID-19 exposure from 5% to ???, as quickly as possible … with no vaccine and no cure.

            4) The PURPOSE of preventive measures is to delay full COVID-19 exposure …. until a vaccine can be developed, which will take 12-18 months … and there is now NO proven cure.

            DUH

            ****WHY DID TRUMP ACTIVATE THE NATIONAL GUARD TO HELP ENFORCE PROTECTIVE MEASURES — WITH THE FEDS ALL COSTS — BUT HE EXPLICITLY LEFT THOSE “FASCIST GOVERNORS IN CHARGE OF TROOPS PAID BY TRUMP? Who’s the moron?

  17. We may regret because of the economy but you certainly will not regret if you visit Tranny for Men right now!

    1. Then you will regret for the virus!

  18. >>public health concerns—as opposed to worries about staving off economic collapse—have carried the day

    yeah the guys w/the power to shut down states and counties won’t be economically collapsed.

    1. yeah the guys w/the power to shut down states and counties won’t be economically collapsed.

      Sorry, loser.
      Even Trump now supports THOSE states …. Authorized federal troops to assist THOSE governors … paid by the feds … under command of the governors.

      AS REPORTED BY BREITBART
      https://reason.com/2020/03/23/we-will-regret-not-taking-the-economic-effects-of-mass-quarantine-more-seriously/#comment-8178395

      TRY TO KEEP UP WITH INFORMED SCHOOLKIDS.

      1. “Gavin Newsome and Clay Jenkins and King Cuomo will never be economically collapsed by their own policies” literally has zero to do w/the president. moar bold!

        1. Yeah, Breitbart is now the FAKE MSM!
          *snort*

      2. Just like schoolkids, Mikey Hihn occasionally shits his pants. Unlike schooolkids, he eats it.

        1. the attention is like a weird honor though. i enjoy it.

  19. Thank you NG for having the bravery to amplify contrarian viewpoints. Not an easy thing these days.

    1. I don’t necessarily agree with Nick, but I’m glad to have his arguments to consider. We do indeed need to consider the economic and societal impact of the big shutdown and compare that to the impact of the virus. Both of those futures are uncertain and open to manipulation to get the outcome one desires.

      I certainly agree that ‘stay home’ ORDERS are wrong. The government should be making recommendations and supplying useful advice – social distancing, washing, cleaning things that come into your house, avoiding public places and having sanitizer ready – not proclaiming edicts. At the very least the regulations could be more reasonable.

      For example, for the restaurant sector, the state could say the new health regulation is no more than 4 seats per 144 sq ft of room space or something. That would spread people out without destroying the business. Of course, waitpersons would still be exposed. And hand sanitizer be required to be available at each entrance. These would be much less onerous regs.

      1. >>I certainly agree that ‘stay home’ ORDERS are wrong

        this. Dallas was already a ghost town w/o the County Judge going full tyrant.

      2. Has der Furher considered following his own standards, or
        does everything he do count as necessary services, unlike common dung under his thumb?

        Yeah, I don’t think much of the stay-at-home policy enforced at gunpoint, neither. But at least it’s not a contest between those cleared by medical officers to “perfect health status” versus “can’t afford status.”

  20. The federal government botched the early response to coronavirus

    Really? You are going to continue to peddle the talking point that lack of testing kits caused people to die even though it’s become clear by now that large scale testing is pointless?

    1. Large-scale testing is the only thing that’s going to show this thing has been around for months. If we only test the most severe cases (like we’re doing now!), we’re skewing our data to thinking the virus is more deadly than in it and ALSO dragging out the time it takes to “get to normal”.

      1. Oh, I agree: large scale testing is certainly useful for that.

        But Gillespie’s talking point is that people have been dying because of lack of testing, and that’s just b.s.

        1. Not completely. If I know that my neighbor has tested positive for the bug I will go out of my way to avoid him. Without that knowledge I might stop and have a quick chat and risk getting infected.

          Testing won’t stop the virus, but it allows people to make more informed decisions.

          1. But the tests don’t tell you that. The antibody tests tell you whether someone was infected in the past, not whether they are currently infectious. The viral or RNA tests tell you whether someone is currently infectious, but that can change from day to day, so it doesn’t really help you.

  21. The stock market will bounce back in time, but many businesses never will. The unemployment, impoverishment and despair likely to result will be public health scourges of the first order.

    Good grief, people, get a grip. The US and Europe bounced back after destruction and injuries from WWII, and you think that people forced (unreasonably) to stay at home for a few weeks will be a long term problem?

    If there is long-term “unemployment, impoverishment and despair”, it’s the result of continuing bad government policies that keep people out of work, not the consequence of the current shutdown, however ill advised it may be.

    1. The US and Europe bounced back after destruction and injuries from WWII

      “But those people were *working*!”

      1. Yes, just as people will be working as soon as the “shelter in place” orders end.

        1. Ummmm, NOYB2,

          BILL GATES PREDICTED A VIRUS CATASTROPHE …. IN 2015

          “We are not ready for the next epidemic,” said Gates in 2015. (He) mentioned the details about Ebola and stated that “the problem was not that system did not work well enough but the problem was we did not have any system at all.”

          In the Ted Talk titled ‘The next outbreak? We’re not ready’, Bill Gates predicted that the next outbreak would be more devastating than Ebola.

          “The failure to prepare could allow the next epidemic to be dramatically more devastating than Ebola.”

          Gates cited the fact that Ebola did not reach many urban cities or else the results would have been greater. “Next time we might not be so lucky,” His words have somehow predicted the Coronavirus epidemic’s dangers.

          COVID-19 has barely begun … and has ALREADY hit major urban centers, worldwide.

          President Trump deserves praise for reversing two months of delays and denials ,… “It’s a Democrat hoax” … “It will magically disappear.”
          The President now endorses and supports the severe restrictions by governors in CA, NY and WA … He has activated the National Guard in those states … paid by federal .. but under command of the governors. And he’s shut down his new critics, saying he will watch results for 15 days, before any further decisions.

          He’s even considering a special enrollment period for Obamacare, to help uninsured Americans cope with this crisis.

    2. Apples and oranges. You need to wrap your head around economics.

      1. Please do go on. Why do you think this recovery will be worse than the recovery after WWII?

    3. The US had no real economic competition for 40 years after we won the war. Pretty easy to bounce back when that’s your starting point.

      1. The US had no real economic competition for 40 years after we won the war.

        WRONG!!!
        WE COLLAPSED FROM THE ONLY INDUSTRIAL BASE LEFT ON EARTH … TO AMONG THE *LAST* IN ECONOMIC GROWTH.. IN ONLY 16 YEARS .. PER KENNEDY’S 1961 SOTU

        Link begins at Kennedy’s intro and (at 0:50) the economy

        We take office in the wake of seven months of recession, 3-1/2 years of slack, 7 years of diminished economic growth, and 9 years of falling farm income. Business bankruptcies have reached their highest level since the Great Depression

        Since 1951, farm income has been squeezed down by 25%. Save for a brief period in 1958, insured unemployment is at the highest peak in our history. Of some 5-1/2 million Americans who are without jobs, more than one million have been searching for work for more than four months. And during each month, some 150,000 workers are exhausting their already meager jobless benefit rights. Nearly 1/8 of those without jobs live almost totally without hope in over 100 specialty distressed and troubled areas. The rest include new school graduates unable to use their talents.

        Farmers, forced to give up their part-time jobs which helped balance their family budget. Skilled and unskilled workers, laid off in such important industries as metal, machinery, automobiles and apparel.

        Our recovery from the 1958 recession, moreover, was anemic and incomplete. Our gross national product never regained its full potential. Unemployment never returned to normal levels. Maximum use of our national industrial capacity was never fully restored. In short, the American economy is in trouble.

        The most resourceful industrialized country on earth ranks among the last in the rate of economic growth. Since last spring, our economic growth rate has actually declined. Business investment is in a decline. Profits have fallen below predicted levels. Construction is off. A million unsold automobiles are in inventory.

        Fewer people are working and the average work week has shrunk well below 40 hours, yet prices have continued to rise so that now too many Americans have less to spend for items that cost more to buy.

        1. IF YOU SAY RETARDED THINGS IN ALLCAPS AND BOLD IT MAKES THEM TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!

          1. IF I LINK TO KENNEDY’S SOTU … ACTUAL VOICE AND VIDEO … AND YOU STILL SNEER ….
            *smirk*

            1. This quote from JFK was useful. But you don’t have to SHOUT so much. People would respect you if you treated them as human beings.

              1. That was self-defense, Goober
                SO IS THIS

                1. Coronavirus is the human race’s self-defense against you.

              2. “People would respect you”

                Nah. Even if he typed normally, people would still realize he’s a raving lunatic, it would just take a few minutes longer.

    4. “Good grief, people, get a grip. The US and Europe bounced back after destruction and injuries from WWII,”

      Yeah, whose providing the Marshall Plan money this time.
      You are badly lacking in knowledge of history; starvation was rampant in Europe for quite a while.

      1. You are badly lacking in knowledge of history; starvation was rampant in Europe for quite a while.

        Having grown up in post-WWII Europe, in a family who almost got killed during the war and started from nothing, I suspect I have a somewhat more informed perspective of how post-WWII Europe recovered economically than you do.

    5. I would agree that if it only does last a few weeks, then the predictions of economic doom and gloom are as overrated as those of the virus. Unfortunately, I’m not confident that autoritarian Governers like Ohio’s DeWine are willing to perform any sort of cost/benefit analysis what-so-ever and could drag this thing out for months.

      1. Oh, I agree: if US state and federal governments return to massive barriers to entry, support for failing businesses, crony capitalism, massive social welfare spending, and printing money, we could be in for a bad decade or two.

        My point is simply that this isn’t an inevitable consequence of the current shutdown, it’s a consequence of on-going bad economic and social policies, something politicians and voters can choose to end at any time.

  22. Everyone championing government control (lockdowns, shelter in place, etc.) is far too stupid to be expected to remember that their actions (votes, support) in favor of authoritarians directly caused the government to be run by cowards who destroyed the country.

    Why should low risk individuals be forced into unemployment? If your answer is anything other than “they shouldn’t”, congratulations you’re both an authoritarian and part of what’s wrong with this country.

    1. Watch out. Talk like that will get the Hihn calling you a monster and linking to his own posts.

      1. You’re BOTH full of shit. And what I link to is …. BREITBART, LIAR

        Designate AGAIN publicly humiliated by Trump!
        From BREITBART, NOT MSNBC *sneer*
        Trump has now endorsed even the most severe restrictions by state governors … again throwing the alt-right under a bus, as he struggles to restore his crippled Presidency

        TRUMP ACTIVATES NATIONAL GUARD IN CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON TO HELP ENFORCE STATE RESTRICTIONS … FEDERAL PAYS, GOVERNORS IN COMMAND

        President Donald Trump announced at the White House on Sunday that he had activated the National Guard in California, New York, and Washington.

        “I know that this is a challenging time for all Americans. We are enduring a great national trial,” Trump said. “We’re at war. In a true sense, we’re at war.”

        It’s NOT a Democrat hoax?? NOW he tells us!

        Trump said that he activated the National Guard under Title 32 status, allowing the guard to remain under the control of the governor, but is paid for by the federal government.

        Officials clarified that activating the National Guard would provide important resources to governors, but that it was playing an assistant role in the fight against the virus.

        “I want you to understand, this is not martial law,” FEMA Administrator Peter Gaynor said.

        (If martial law, the troops would be in charge.)

        Trump deserves praise, for publicly reversing two months of delays, denials and blatant lies.
        Now, his alt-right cult remains the only national threat greater than COVID-19. They’re all alone, twisting in the wind, pathetically lying like DesigNate.

        ****WHY IS THIS ROCKET SCIENCE TO DESIGNATE AND HIS ILK?

        1) COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu was, before vaccine.

        2) COVID-19 is 5-10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, with a vaccine and 100 exposure

        3) Nick (and others) would increase COVID-19 exposure from 5% to ???, with no vaccine and no cure.

        4) The PURPOSE of preventive measures is to delay full COVID-19 exposure …. until a vaccine can be developed, which will take 12-18 months … and there is now NO proven cure.

        DUH

        1. Hahahahahahahahahahaha

          Talk like that will get the Hihn calling you a monster and linking to his own posts.

          He actually did it! The absolute madman!

        2. Go lick a door knob.

      2. And typing out his smirks and sneers! Oh, the humanity! Haha

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  24. Nick is missing the point that the initial failure of the Trump Administration is the reason we are where we are today. The initial failure to take the infection seriously and get prepared has left little choice but to use draconian measures until we have enough testing and capacity to handle sick people. We knew about the infection and the effect it was having and yet the President’s administration did not start to take it seriously until the stack market started coming down. München says nobody could see it coming. Yes they could have if anyone of them read a newspaper.

    1. From those crazed lefties ….. The Wall Street Journal
      MOAR ridicule of the extreme alt-right, who keep WHINING the threat is not all that severe

      WALL STREET JOURNAL: AMERICA NEEDED CORONAVIRUS TESTS. THE GOVERNMENT FAILED.

      Limited testing has blinded Americans to the scale of the outbreak so far, impeding the nation’s ability to fight the virus through isolating the sick and their contacts … As of early Wednesday, about 6,500 people in the U.S. had tested positive,… but the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had reported only about 32,000 tests conducted at its facilities and other public-health labs.

      Limited testing is also keeping patients like Justin LaBor in the dark, despite recent improvements. Mr. LaBor, 36 years old, said he went to the emergency room at AtlantiCare Regional Medical Center in Pomona, N.J., Monday with a fever and dry cough, symptoms typical in a coronavirus infection. Doctors admitted him, but he hasn’t been tested for the virus, he said Tuesday, gasping for breath over the phone.

      “Everyone just told me there were no tests and I didn’t check all the boxes for the state,” said Mr. LaBor, a social-media marketer from Elwood, N.J., referring to the criteria that state labs require patients to meet before running tests.

      An AtlantiCare spokeswoman said the hospital system “is not testing patients in a widespread manner for coronavirus”

      Non-stop barbarity.
      Hey Donald! How many have you killed today?

      NOW he activates the National Guard in CA, NY and WA …. paid by federal … under command of governors … to assist those governors,

      1. WAIT TRUMP SUPPORTS MARTIAL LAW? WTF I LOVE TRUMP NOW!!!!!!!!!!

        1. FASCISTS LOVE FASCISTS

          The Trump administration, after laboring for years to repeal Obamacare, said it was considering creating a special enrollment period for the program due to the coronavirus.

          When Donald Trump himself suggested the government could take equity stakes in private companies that receive federal aid, it was a Democratic governor, Colorado’s Jared Polis, who accused the president of being a socialist.

          The Trump Legacy … WORSE THAN FDR

    2. Yes, it was Trump who prepared those tests at the CDC that didn’t work, and it was Trump who prevented private firms from developing tests, and it was Trump who kept the FDA rules in place, slowing development of medications.

      It’s always Trump’s fault!!

      1. Good we can agree that it is Trumps fault.

      2. It was Trump who said it was a “Democrat hoax”

        It was Trump who spent two months delating, denying and LYING. “It will magically go away: … the same medical genius who said WHIRLING WIND TURBINES CAUSE CANCER!”

        NOW it’s Trump activating the National Guard in CA, NY and WA … paid by federal … under command of governors … to assist the governors’ efforts.

        NOW it’s Trump, considering A SPECIAL ENROLLMENT PERIOD FOR … OBAMACARE! … desperate to revive his DEAD Presidency … A SLAP IN THE FACE TO HIS ALT-RIGHT GOOBERS.

        1. “It was Trump who said it was a “Democrat hoax””

          It is shitstain Hihn who repeats this lie. And is PROUD of being such a fucking lefty ignoramus.

  25. Note who continues to get paid in this catastrophe. Government at all levels, industry tied to government, and stores that sell food, building supplies and medicine.

    You know the entire response is a farce if all these stores can remain open while others are shuttered. This is the most brainless response to a crisis that doesn’t exist in my lifetime.

    And we’re all sheep lead to the slaughter.

      1. Hey Mikey, I’m picking up what you’re putting down, but you know what would be helpful? If I had some kind of a link so that I could PROVE that TRUMP is gonna SAVE ME from CORONACHAN before I SHIT my PANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      2. Say, you’re in that preexisting-condition-over-70-demographic, aren’t you?

        1. Are YOU infected? (no symptoms for up to 14 days)
          That would make you a threat to your own wife and kids.
          Like EVERY younger American, Gomer.

          1. Are YOU infected? (no symptoms for up to 14 days)

            I was feeling slightly under the weather a few weeks ago. Chances are that I have already had it and am noninfectious now. I neither know nor really care.

            That would make you a threat to your own wife and kids. Like EVERY younger American

            If someone is young enough not to have to worry about COVID-19, then neither are their partner or their kids.

            Younger Americans are a threat to you, but you can address that by locking yourself in your hovel and not coming out for the next 18 months.

          2. Are you infected, scumbag Hihn? If not, please, PLEASE, try to get infected and die.
            The world would benefit from the loss of one more lefty fucking ignoramus,

  26. “Might be an overreaction”? 80,000 Americans died of the flu last year. Globally 880,000 kids under 5 died in 2016. Nobody fucking cared. *Any* reaction to corona would have been an overreaction. I’ve never seen anything this retarded in my life.

    1. HEY RETARD

      I’ve never seen anything this retarded in my life.

      1) That was an entire year, of a disease with 100% coverage, AND A VACCINE AND MEDICATION…. versus ….. umm ….. three months, now at 3% coverage, NO VACCINE AND NO MEDICATION.

      ****EVEN TRUMP THINKS YOU ARE RETARDED

      Trump has activated the National Guard in CA, NY and WA …. paid by the federal government … but under the command of the governors … to assist the governors in their restrictions. ….. TWENTY-FOUR HOURS AGO!

      If you’re IGNORANT of even MAJOR news … THAT is retarded.

    2. DEdwards, you are absolutely correct in your assessment of this nonsense. However, let me correct your one mistake: this is not “retarded,” but rather it is a case of mass hysteria. Remember when they locked up all Japanese – Americans after the attack on Pearl Harbor? I don’t think a single American of Japanese ancestry was EVER shown to have helped the Japanese in any fashion. In the current case, we’re locking up the entire society to save a few old geezers (who could be easily quarantined) in retirement homes.

      Geez, maybe we can do this for six months …. what fun! It’s great practice for authoritarians on how to manage the lives of their “lessers.”

      1. “…Remember when they locked up all Japanese – Americans after the attack on Pearl Harbor? I don’t think a single American of Japanese ancestry was EVER shown to have helped the Japanese in any fashion. In the current case, we’re locking up the entire society to save a few old geezers (who could be easily quarantined) in retirement homes…”

        VERY good analogy; thanks.

  27. As a Korean it kinda bothers me that the west heaps praise on Korea while mostly ignoring nations that protected their people by banning travel from China early. Look at the Worldometer map, no Asian nations outside of China is in Korea’s situation.

    Korea messed up, period. All their wonderful testing basically amounts them doing a good job cleaning up that mess. Their president was reassuring their people for the most of February and sent 2 million masks to China. China still has nearly unrestricted access to that country.

    We’re not Korea. You don’t want to be like Korea. We can’t nationalize production of masks and hand over the bulk of the production duties to favored companies. We can’t facilitate testing by tracking people over CCTVs and smart phones without permission / court orders. Or at least we shouldn’t – we’re flirting with those measures.

    The cost of those expansive testing is being told in the Korea is starting to be told in trickles. One child patient with fever with no corona virus symptoms was to go home. A hospital tested 1,800 people and 20 staff got infected since they practically lived there.

    More testing is better than fewer testing. But any notion that someone other than Trump would have ordered massive testing in and locked down NY (like Korea did to Deagu) in early to mid February is just a case be hindsight being 20/20. China pretty much owns the liberal elites.

  28. Who is “We”?

  29. The worst case scenario is not 1.7 million dead Americans. Far from it. The worst case scenario is a global depression, ala the 1930s, the complete socialization of the US economy, the banning of all trade with China and an increase in international tensions, ala the 1930s, that culminates in World War III. And that’s the road this overreaction and stupid stimulus package is starting us down.

    1. World War III

      Cold War/Drug War II.

  30. The Trump administration, after laboring for years to repeal Obamacare, said it was considering creating a special enrollment period for the program due to the coronavirus.

    When Donald Trump himself suggested the government could take equity stakes in private companies that receive federal aid, it was a Democratic governor, Colorado’s Jared Polis, who accused the president of being a socialist.

    Buh-bye Donald.

    1. Trump says a lot of stupid shit all the time. What matters is what he does. Also, what matters is what his opponent has done and promises to do in the future.

      Between Biden and Trump, I prefer Trump, hands down. That’s more a testament to how awful Biden is than to any redeeming qualities of Trump.

      1. I agree. Trump is the worst possible choice to be our next president, except for all the others that are running.

  31. Trump seems to be reconsidering as per his tweet from March 22:

    WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF. AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!

    (Caps his, of course.) Slate is apoplectic over this, stating it will make the economy worse. What a bunch of crater brains.

    1. Renad says TRUMP won’t decide for 15 days.
      Renad has already decided.
      Renad … the REAL crater brain … is even crazier than Trump!

      1. Huh? I’m just posting what he tweeted and Slate’s crazed response to the fact that he might, just might, view this as an overreaction, which it IS. That’s all. Man, I might be a crater brain, but you’re a certified loon, the way you’re commenting on here.

        1. THIS fuckup is CRAZIER!!!!!

          Renad says TRUMP won’t decide for 15 days.
          Renad has already decided.
          Renad … the REAL crater brain … is even crazier than Trump!

          Slate’s crazed response

          THAT was you deciding.
          JUST AS FUCKING STUPID AS SLATE

          (Will he go WACKIER?)

  32. I reached similar conclusions early in this fiasco — namely that we are headed for hyperinflation as a result of these policies… The states started with the business closings the day after Congress approved the first round of bail-out money for displaced workers in the COVID crisis. (not the school closings — those were first because they were politically motivated, imbecilic from a public health standpoint — you want the school age kids to get exposed as they develop the anti-bodies fastest). Like the annoying people who have to be first in line even if it means they are first line to their own execution, a handful of governors jumped ahead of everybody else and summarily started shutting down stuff secure that federal taxpayers would pick up the tab, and they could avoid the political fallout of bankrupting their own state treasuries.

    But then it go worse. The other governors saw those idiots rushing into line, and then they got in line as well. And what we now have is a competition between governors to make sure that whatever New York is getting, for example, Ohio gets too.

    Here’s the rub. The testing situation has been so mismanaged that now it actually makes some sense to just lock everyone down for 14 days, making a kind of poor-man’s diagnostic test. If you don’t get symptoms in 14 days, and had no contact with anybody, you get a green star. If you have symptoms, you get a red star. In theory it’s a working solution to the bungling of the test kits. In Ohio we have tests that were orderred 7 days ago and haven’t come back (probably because the test was never run… the kits, I suspect, were diverted to NYC). What’s another 7 days if you can get an actual result. The problem is that there is no direction from the top that this is what’s going on. Instead we are still hearing about the sham-science of artificially flattening the curve. If you want to flatten the curve and not kill your economy, you still have to accept some tolerable margin of infections and deaths… you are still climbing the curve up to the same inflection point, remember. Think of it as a mountain climbing race. If you run a full sprint all out, you never finish because you die of exhaustion first. If you go at a crawl, you also never finish because you die of dehydration when, after a few days, you run out of water and food. It may have been a more comfortable few days, but when your canteen goes dry, you still die.

    So if flattening the curve is garbage, why am I ok theoretically with a 14-day incarceration? Because it can do what our government hasn’t — identify who is sick so they can then actually be locked down in a full-on quarantine and be given the medical attention necessary. But it won’t work if the 14-day lock down isn’t done nation wide, combined with a total closure of all borders (and sealing off illegal points of entry). It won’t work if the interpretation of “essential” varies from state to state. It won’t accomplish anything if the rules for interactions are just unworkable garbage conceived by imbeciles in ivy towers. And since none of those conditions appear to be even remotely close to being met, expect that at the end of 14 days it is going to be a case of needing to extend. And there will be very little acquired immunity in those states that did what they were told and squashed the curve. So they will be trapped in a perpetual cycle of lock downs until a vaccine comes out. So either these so-called leaders need to start talking sense about why we need a 14-day isolation period, or they need to STFU and let individual’s preferences for risk vs. social normalcy allocate an efficient equilibrium of behaviors. The only reasons we have externalities in this situation — as the moron Governor Cuomo puts it: “your behavior affects my health”… so the government has to step in and give you proper marginal private cost by fining you for hugging your grandma… is that the government has created those externalities by extending an entitlement to healthcare to all individuals. When there isn’t a media sideshow going on, they are happy to cut corners on that entitlement, under-staffing nursing homes and applying sketchy rules for coverring rehabilitation for the elderly, preferring instead to ship them off to hospice based on their omniscient predictive models (and actuarial cost-benefit tables).

    1. But then it go worse.

      FOR YOU!

      The other governors saw those idiots rushing into line, and then they got in line as well. And what we now have is a competition between governors to make sure that whatever New York is getting, for example, Ohio gets too.

      While you’re in a coma … Trump has ENDORSED those governors … and SUPPORTS them … by activating the National Guard in CA, NY and WA … paid by federal … but under command of the GOVERNORS … to ASSIST those governors.

      This was over 24 hours ago … you cannot even keep up with MAJOR news!
      That makes YOU a bigger threat than the virus. Your ignorance.

      1. Fuck off and die, Hihn.

  33. We can certainly hope. As for reasonable expectations, damned if I know.

    1. This has nothing to do with Ebola. Ebola is vastly more deadly. Harder to spread because of that, but vastly more deadly.

  34. ANOTHER rebuke of the virus denial crazies!

    Vice President Pence, a former governor and the leader of the federal response to the coronavirus, urged Americans on Monday to respect state and local restrictions that are in many cases tougher than those imposed by the Trump administration.

    “We made it clear to the governors that this president and this administration fully supports decisions that governors are making in communities and states that are particularly impacted by the spread of the coronavirus and we are grateful for their efforts,” Pence said

    1. ANOTHER rebuke of the virus denial crazies!

      It’s funny to see you from all anti-Trump to all pro-Trump. I guess the explanation is simple: Trump is now actually behaving like a totalitarian, and that’s what you like.

    2. Fuck off and die, Hihn.

  35. “That’s [economic shutdown] a decision we will come to rue as a nation, since a disease’s direct death rate is not the only factor to be considered in responding to it.”

    Well said. You can certainly disagree that states and cities are overreacting by quashing almost all economic activity; maybe they’re right to do so, maybe they should be doing even more. Who knows. But it’s annoying when people act like it’s wrong to even weigh economic concerns vs lives directly lost. The covid-19 deaths are easier for people to wrap their heads around, because they’re directly caused by the virus. But economic ruin destroys lives too, and it shouldn’t be seen as insensitive or “you hate old and vulnerable people” to question these policies.

    I’ve said this before, but the Dust Bowl, the stock market crash, the Great Depression; these events didn’t literally kill a single person. Yet we know that those events destroyed countless lives. Even with the Great Recession, my generation has struggled to get to where we probably would have been, in regards to saving money, buying houses, planning for retirement, saving for kids’ college funds, had that recession not occurred. These harms aren’t “just money” because of all of the advancement and quality of life that the money represents.

  36. I was just censored by Medium for posting an article, replete with links to respected medical, economics, and news sources, making this very point as well as pointing out that the stress involved in these lockdowns is likely to kill more people than the virus itself.

    The article is available on my little blog here: https://consistentprinciples.wordpress.com/2020/03/23/the-powerful-reason-covid-19-lockdowns-may-cause-more-deaths-than-they-prevent/

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  38. businesses could be running steady trickles of non-toxic antiseptic through their ventilation systems if it would make a chastening difference. Then a free market response would render this $1 trillion panic fix moot.

  39. I agree with the article. The scary news headlines that are everywhere have become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

    1. A manufactured panic is still a panic.

  40. The silver lining is that millions of parents are discovering alternatives to public schooling. Some will never go back, and still more will never vote the same again.

    1. You may be optimistic; I’m afraid millions of parents are discovering that being a parent is damn difficult and that turning over the rug-rats to a government facility is preferable.
      I got lucky.

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  43. “This model is intended to help make fast decisions, not predict the future”. https://covidactnow.org/

    1. Follow the money behind this shit.

  44. This law sets a very dangerous precedent. My gut says, watch out…

  45. Why are libertarians and conservatives so convinced that NOT enacting mass quarantines will somehow avert the economic impacts? Do you really think that having millions of people sick at once, with a much higher percentage of them dying than in other countries due to the much high loading on the health care system, won’t ALSO crash the economy? Hell, even disposing of all those bodies is going to cost an awful lot of money. Not to mention the fact that many of those who die will still be of working age, and will therefore need to be replaced. The fact that China went into lockdown right before the single most important holiday in their culture ought to give you at least an idea of how severe the alternative is, and it is not something to be brushed aside or taken lightly.

    I have identified as a libertarian and a conservative all my life. My experiences in the last three years, combined with the way in which you all are responding to this (with aggressive denial, wild conspiracy theories, and willful ignorance), has finally convinced me to abandon libertarianism and conservatism for good. I still believe very strongly in the importance of individual rights and free markets, but I no longer hold them to be absolute and of the highest moral values. The current situation has laid bare the gross limitations of this thought, and perhaps nothing will do so much damage to the Western political model than our failure to effectively deal with what amounts to a rather soft pandemic. Hell, I’m very thankful this ISN’T the flu. America would be gang raped if it was the 1918 pandemic again.

    I’m sure authoritarian states like Russia and China will waste little time in capitalizing on our ineptitude, though. For every country who has been on the fence (looking at you, Ukraine), the Coronavirus will serve as the strongest argument to NOT let your population have too much freedom and run wild. This will serve as the strongest argument to enact a powerful state that has no qualms about using a few jackboots to stamp out those voices they find to be… counterproductive. All they will have to do is point to the United States and say, “Yeah, but do you really want to end up like THEM?!?!”

    Perhaps you will all start singing a different tune when it’s you and your family drowning in your own bodily fluids, wondering why you can’t get a ventilator or why the nurse doesn’t seem to have time to deal with you right now. Perhaps you’ll want some sympathy, and cry to every passing stranger about how awful it all is, and how you can’t believe this is really happening.

    But there is nothing new under the sun, this story has been told before. We have all made our beds and now it is time to sleep in them. The Law of the Harvest does not care about our rationalizations and excuses. What is sown shall be reaped, and what has been will be again.

    1. wanderer’s_star
      March.27.2020 at 9:18 pm
      “Why are libertarians and conservatives so convinced that NOT enacting mass quarantines will somehow avert the economic impacts?..”
      It is possible that someone is stooooooooooooopid enough to ask that question, but it assumes that someone that stoooooooooooopid has read nothing of history since 1918.

      “I have identified as a libertarian and a conservative all my life.”
      Those two are not mutually supporting, so we can assume you are a stooooooooooooopid right-wing statist.
      Fuck off and die; make the world a better place.

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