Reason Roundup

Expect 'Very Dramatic' Economic Intervention Due to Coronavirus, Says Trump

Plus: How Trump's payroll tax would work, Daily Show accuses Kamala Harris of "gaslighting," and more..


Financial fallout from coronavirus stirs Trump to action. As the COVID-19 coronavirus continues to spread across the U.S., the Trump administration is floating potential payroll tax cuts, subsidies for hourly wage earners, and "relief" for affected industries.

President Donald Trump alluded to these proposals at a White House briefing on Monday. "We are going to be asking tomorrow, we're seeing the Senate. We're going to be meeting with House Republicans, Mitch McConnell, everybody discussing a possible payroll tax cut or relief, substantial relief," Trump told reporters. He said more information about his "very dramatic" plans would be released at a press conference held today.

"While some members of Congress have publicly floated ideas to spur the US economy and help affected industries, before Monday the President had not yet endorsed any specific action and officials have offered differing views of how sweeping a stimulus plan could be," notes CNN. More:

Some ideas under consideration include steps to defer taxes on the airline, cruise and hospitality industries, all battered by the virus. The White House has also weighed an expansion of paid sick leave—a major focus for some White House officials, who fear the virus could spread further if service workers go to work sick.

Some of Trump's Republican allies have also lobbied him on a payroll tax holiday, though prior to Monday Democrats in Congress and top administration officials downplayed the prospect for such a move.

In publicand, reportedly, in private talks with colleagues, tooTrump has been dismissing the seriousness of the COVID-19 outbreak and urging people not to panic. (The second part is good advice!)

But Trump has also been a bit too keen on trying to turn the whole outbreak into a familiar narrative in which he is the true victim. In statements at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in late February and on Twitter, Trump has suggested that not only is everything fine, but that fear about coronavirus is just another red herring being served up by Democrats and the "Fake News" media who are eager to do him in.

In any case, the outbreak's effect on the economy is something that concerns Trump, according to myriad sources.

The relatively healthy U.S. economy during his term has been something Trump loves to take credit for. And supporters outside of his unconditional-love base often cite the economy as the reason to stick with Trump despite some of his more boorish behavior. This means an economic downturn or crash at this point could be very bad for Trump's re-election campaign.

On the other hand, if everything with the economy goes back to normal relatively quickly, it could be very good for Trump 2020especially if the president can point to "dramatic" actions he green-lit that at least look like they may have helped out.

In related news:


The Daily Show's Trevor Noah talks Sen. Kamala Harris' (D–Calif.) endorsement video for former Vice President Joe Biden. "I don't understand why Kamala Harris shot this hostage-style video to show her support for Joe Biden. It looks weird!" the host said on his show Monday night. "I mean, even the Taliban is looking at this video like, 'We had better lighting and we were in a cave!'"

But Noah's criticism of Harris' endorsement goes beyond the aesthetic. "How is Kamala gonna endorse Joe Biden and not acknowledge that she once called him a friend of racists who opposed integrated public schools?" asked Noah, going on to accuse Harris of "gaslighting" voters in acting as though she had never had problems with Biden.

This sort of totally unexplained flip-flop (on issues from health policy to racism and beyond) is the exact kind of thing that made Harris come across like a politics-first phony when she was running for president.


NEXT: Purple Haze

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  1. Financial fallout from coronavirus stirs Trump to action.

    The country is filing for bankruptcy protection.

    1. Meh. What’s another few trillion added to the deficit?

      1. Republicans didn’t seem to care when giving tax breaks to the 1%, why would they care now?

        1. You mean tax breaks to the people that actually pay taxes?

          1. ITT, Vince Smith outs himself as De Oppresso Liber.

            And will keep lying about it.

          2. Oh the poor, poor 1%!

            How oppressed they are! What misery they endure!

            1. Well they sure as heck didn’t spend their entire life’s whining about anyone and everyone who had more wealth then them (envy); otherwise they wouldn’t be in the 1%.

              As if the 1% was something special; a household salary of a little over $250k/yr is all it takes.. Two well payed professionals.

              Seems instead of learning from their betters most just want to complain incessantly about them in an attempt to sabotage their success and bring them down to their own pathetic level.

        2. How dare the government let you keep more of your property. That’s the governments god damnit.

        3. Oh, and 80% of the cuts went to the middle class. You were lied to by Vox. They even bragged about lying to you. They appreciate you being one of their useful idiots btw.

          1. Where, oh where have our deficit hawks gone?

            1. Because you cared so much when Obama doubled the national debt in 8 years and had the worst post war recovery on record to show for it.

              1. I did care. Are you going to be consistent, or are you going to tongue clean Trump’s ass again?

                1. The lefties obsessions with submissive gay sex with Trump gets increasingly disturbing.

                  1. Not a lefty. I just told you I’m a deficit hawk. Cawwwwww

                    And the act I described was not sexual, at least not for Trump. It is a sanitation thing. No other technique is as thorough as John.

                    1. Pedo Jeffy, we’re well aware you reserve the sexual acts for the rape of American children by illegal aliens, because open borders no matter what. We are also aware you that you are a Canadian student from Toronto.

                      So stay the fuck out of America’s business.

                    2. Your conspiracy theories don’t make even basic sense.

                      And I thought the local library closing for corona would restrict your internet access. Where are you now? Sitting on someone’s stoop, stealing their wifi?

                    3. Sure Vince.

                    4. Your not a leftist who always parrots the leftist talking points and takes the leftist side on every issue.

                    5. soldier, go ahead and quote me endorsing or parroting a leftist position.

                      At some point you guys are going to have to put up some evidence, or admit that criticizing Trump does not make someone a leftist.

                      It’s pretty ironic that so called libertarians are forcing me to choose between left/right.

            2. We’re still here, DOL. And we would very much like Congress to do their fucking job, make some tough decisions, and cut spending. Last time I checked, Congress has the power of the purse.

              I am disappointed with POTUS Trump because he does not veto the continuing resolutions and force the issue. Perhaps that will change after he wins re-election this November.

              1. 2 sides of the deficit equation. Cutting taxes without cutting spending will result in the same debt as as raising spending without raising taxes. Trumpists and Neocons both need to be reminded of this.

                1. Not true.

                2. We get that you love more government, you don’t have to keep looking for different ways to say it.

                  1. I don’t. How else can I say I want balanced budgets?

                    1. R Mac, you got nothing, I know. You don’t have to keep proving it.

                    2. Ok Vince. You are still ok with stealing our money for your priorities we get it.

                    3. Communists have balanced budgets. You don’t give a fuck about the spending side as is obvious. You want to simply raise taxes to match the big government you want.

                3. Do you mean that it will result in the same amount of debt, or that both scenarios increase debt?

                  1. Both increase debt. The specifics of each action would determine how much debt is added.

                    1. We get it, you’re OK with stealing with us for your priorities Vince.

                    2. Statistically, I probably pay more taxes than you.

                    3. Well, you drop more N bombs that’s for sure Vince.

                    4. “De Oppresso Liber
                      March.10.2020 at 3:35 pm
                      Statistically, I probably pay more taxes than you.”

                      Pay all you want, but stop stealing from me for your priorities then pretending that it’s OK because your accountant sucks.

                    5. My accountant was supposed to figure out how to get me out of all these property taxes?

                      I’m also an employer, so yes, I pay more tax than you. No, an accountant isn’t going to get me out of most payroll taxes.

                    6. Nobody believes you’re an employer of anyone except your crack whore except Zeb.

                    7. You guys have a hard time with facts, we know.

                    8. With tax cuts, tax revenue went up. Deficits increased because spending increased faster.

                      You’re a fucking idiot.

            3. Tax cuts dont add to the deficit dumbfuck. Spending past revenue does. We had increased tax revenues after the cuts dummy.

              1. ^WINNER – there’s one more variable to the equation being dismissed here.

      2. This, but without the sarcasm, is what every political party thinks when they’re in power.

  2. Some of Trump’s Republican allies have also lobbied him on a payroll tax holiday…

    Of course the vultures would swoop in and use this crisis to try to take away the government’s hard-earned money.

    1. Welcome to Reason 2020 “Evil Republicans plot tax relief”

      And again, ENB, decides that lying about what Trump said is the best way to pad a column and feed the narrative.
      Yesterday she manufactured quotes and said that they came from CPAC attendees. Unfortunately for her, some people watched her “cite” and pointed out that the CPAC folks didn’t say what she accused them of at all. That she was lying her ass off.

      So with today’s invective she isn’t bothering to back it up with an external link she might get caught out again on. Instead, to back up her assertion she actually links to the quotes she manufactured yesterday:
      “Trump has suggested that not only is everything fine, but that fear about coronavirus is just another red herring being served up by Democrats and the “Fake News” media who are eager to do him in.”

      Such hackery, so dishonest… pretty ballsy though.

      1. ENB needs to go free a nipple, and stop the petty JournoList bullshit.

        1. She’s a bubble headed bimbo. That’s what you get for what Reason pays.

  3. A D.C. reverend at Christ Church Georgetown has tested positive for coronavirus, and Mayor Muriel Bowser is asking anyone who attended church on certain days in late February and early this month to self-quarantine.

    In other church news: Pope urges priests to visit coronavirus sufferers as he celebrates Mass in the Vatican alone

    1. Do as I say, not as I do.

      1. Well, he is a monarch. That’s pretty much what monarchs always demand.

    2. It’s just a coincidence he’s a socialist I’m sure.

  4. But Trump has also been a bit too keen on trying to turn the whole outbreak into a familiar narrative in which he is the true victim.
    Can you blame him?

    1. It isnt like msnbc seems to be giddy over the virus taking down trump or anything like that…

    2. Yes, we can. Having a narcissist in office has some real drawbacks, it turns out.

      1. Name one president who was not fond of himself.

        1. ^this
          The “narcissist” thing is one of the stupidest talking points in recent memory.
          Oh, everyone suddenly discovered a term they don’t understand! Whoopee!
          Hint: everybody who runs for president is a narcissist. This includes your beloved “libertarian” candidates. Obama was a deeply troubled narcissist. Hillary was a deeply corrupt narcissist. Yadda, yadda, yadda.
          At least Trump had the balls to make a business empire and brand out of it.
          But keep crying about Trump being a narcissist – it’s fun to see people self-inflate themselves with such shallow puffery

          1. There are degrees. Trump’s narcissism is severe, to the point that he doesn’t seem to be able to acknowledge reality, insists he is the world’s greatest expert at some 30 odd topics, including nuclear, doctoring, windmills, cancer, etc.

            Case in point, Trump insisting Corona virus is a democrat hit job, instead of doing his job. No matter what happens, the most important person, err victim is Trump. Every time. Also see: Trump firing former director of intel for releasing a report that wasn’t flattering to Trump, but was truthful (Trump hates the truth if it makes him look bad; I don’t know how you think good leadership works, but deep denial is not a good foundation), and Trump having the latest annual intelligence report classified because it gives an eyes open assessment of covid (the whole point of this report is to release it to the public).

            Trump’s first instinct when he meets any crisis is to lie and cover it up. This is how he gets it done in the business world when he can’t pay his bills or needs to invent some asset to take a loan against. This is how he’s trying to deal with covid — lying and obfuscating first of all, taking care of the stock market second of all, and all else comes last.

            1. That time he said the rising oceans started receding upon his inauguration was particularly narcissistic.

            2. “” insists he is the world’s greatest expert at some 30 odd topics, including nuclear, doctoring, windmills, cancer, etc.””

              Funny how reasonable people will write that off as Trump screwing with critics. But you take it seriously.

              1. Man, Trump is such a comedian. Joking about no term limits, being the world’s expert on nuclear, joking about asking Russia to help him win over Hillary, oh wait he did do that.

                1. Sure Vince, you dont understand humor we get it.

                  1. You were supposed to laugh at Trump on the Apprentice, the buffoon of a washed up 80’s celebrity, not with him. The producers of that show way underestimated the gullibility of certain demographics.

                    1. OK Vince.

                2. “”Trump is such a comedian””

                  Your words not mine. I don’t think Trump is a comedian. He does love to push button and make people talk about him. He love for you to jump in the mud with him and fight it out. He loves to trigger the opposition.

                  The opposition loves to be triggered I guess, because they are always talking about Trump.

            3. “Case in point, Trump insisting Corona virus is a democrat hit job”

              You just can’t stop lying.

              1. Strange this comment, where he’s caught red handed lying, he doesn’t respond to.

                1. No one could possibly have anything better to do with their day than to wait to see what some asshole says in response to their comments.

                  1. Read the thread fuckwit, he clearly doesnt have anything better to do.

                    God Zeb when did you go full cunt.

                    1. Right after you did, probably.

                    2. See, the problem that that bitchy response is that I never bothered denying that I’m a cunt.

                      You, on the other hand…

                  2. He responded to several of my comments denying he’s a liar in the meantime, but ignored one where I caught him lying, pretending it didn’t happen.

                    No one could possibly have anything better to do with their day then coming to the rescue of Lying Jeff.

                2. I don’t really want to talk to you anymore, since you seem very entrenched in magical thinking.

                  But it’s not a lie. Trump feels like he’s the biggest victim in all of this. as per usual.

                  1. Sure Vince.

                    1. Still waiting on a single citation by you, R Mac, or any of the other conspiratarians.

                    2. I don’t care what you’re waiting on Vince.

                  2. Did Trump say that the Corona virus itself was a democratic hit job?

                    1. Oh so sorry. I forgot how pedantic you guys like to get when you are losing an argument.

                      The Democrats talking about corona virus is the real hit job, I guess? Trump didn’t really make it clear.

                      He did make it clear that the virus is 100% contained and we can just use the flu vaccine on it, anyway. So there’s that.

                    2. Hey look everyone, Lying Jeff knows he’s caught, So he squirms like a worm in shit instead of answering a simple question.

                    3. Cool, so you admit he didn’t say it, at least you didn’t start dropping N bombs because you lost like you did last time Vince.

                    4. ped·ant
                      Learn to pronounce
                      noun: pedant; plural noun: pedants

                      a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning.
                      “the royal palace (some pedants would say the ex-royal palace)”

                    5. Except it really matters if you’re claiming Trump said the corona virus itself was a Democratic hit job, or the Democratic hit job in reaction to corona virus was.

                      Because one way you’re lying about what Trump said, the other way you’re lying about what Democrats are doing.

                      Either way, you’re lying.

                      Because you’re a liar.

                    6. “””This is their new hoax,” he said, apparently referring to Democrats’ criticism of the official coronavirus response.””

                      He never referred to the virus as a hoax.

                      “”Case in point, Trump insisting Corona virus is a democrat hit job””

                      Your claim is false according to the link you posted.

                    7. Forgive my humble misstating of Trump’s garbled message. So garbled, that even your cherry picked quote has to include the word “apparently” when trying to identify which “it” Trump is talking about.

                      The point is, Trump is the victim here. Like always.

                    8. No, the point is you lied, denied it all over the page, then got caught.

                    9. Did I lie and deny it, or did I paraphrase an unclear quote and then immediately cede the point to you pedants the moment you tried to make it an issue?

                      I also notice the other examples of his narcissism went totally unanswered by the Trump cultists. But why bother trying to defend the indefensible when you have a pedantic point you can really beat the other guy up on, right?

                    10. Jeff is complaining about trump gambling messages as he tries to squirm out of a lie by claiming he garbled message.

                    11. Dude, if you would have admitted you were wrong about the quote earlier you wouldn’t have gotten slammed for it. Sure you would have gotten ridiculed for it but the ridicule would have been short. But you had to drag it out with shit like this. You double, tripled, quadrupled down on it. Therefore the ridicule was sustained.

                      “”Oh so sorry. I forgot how pedantic you guys like to get when you are losing an argument. “”

            4. The fact your longest post in this thread, at least to this point, is just you rationalizing your theoretical opinion on the degrees of narcissism says a lot.

              If you need to do that much rationalizing to accept an idea in your head…maybe it isn’t a very good idea…

      2. THAT’s your big complaint about Trump? He’s a narcissist?

        1. Well that and the fact that he’s a traitorous frat boy born with a silver spoon in his mouth who avoided personal responsibility and patriotic duty his whole life.

          1. But the fact that he’s a Republican is totes cool. Got it.

            1. DOL can’t stop lying, then wonders why we call him Jeff.

              1. Point to the lie.

                1. I just did up thread.

                  I think you’re such a dishonest person you don’t even realize it. It’s a way of life for you.

                2. Here it is–
                  De Oppresso Liber

            2. I’ve supported Republicans in the past. Trump isn’t a real republican, though. He has switched parties several times, including time spent in the D party. He is a Trumpist.

              1. What Republicans have you supported?

                1. Ron Paul is my beau. I have worked on other GOP campaigns, although not in a while. Last one I worked on was Sarina Forbes for congress. I was a precinct committee officer in my local county GOP for a while. I had to run for office and everything.

                  1. Quite a feat given you are really Cytotoxic/Chemjeff, child rape enthusiast. Who is Canadian.

                    1. He’s admitting he conducted foreign interference in a US election!

                    2. I’ve been here, using this my only screen name, since 2013 at least.

                    3. Jesus you people are insane. Is it really so hard to imagine that there is more than one person in the world who disagrees with you in similar ways?

                    4. That isnt your only screen name Vince.

                    5. “Zeb
                      March.10.2020 at 2:41 pm
                      Jesus you people are insane. Is it really so hard to imagine”

                      Shut the fuck up $parky.

                    6. I would be pretty impressed if a Canadian knew about a hopeless GOP congressional campaign from almost a decade ago.

                    7. OK Vince.

                    8. “Is it really so hard to imagine that there is more than one person in the world who disagrees with you in similar ways?

                      It’s easier to call out the wrong-thinkers here, than to critically analyze their favorite politician’s big-govt solution to a crisis.

                    9. Hey look Eric, another sockpuppet, maguaclly appears.

                    10. Zeb
                      March.10.2020 at 2:41 pm
                      Jesus you people are insane. Is it really so hard to imagine that there is more than one person in the world who disagrees with you in similar ways?

                      Whatever Hihn.

                    11. “Zeb
                      March.10.2020 at 2:41 pm
                      Jesus you people are insane. Is it really so hard to imagine that there is more than one person in the world who disagrees with you in similar ways?”

                      No, most of us are quite familiar with NPCs.
                      Though “person(s)” is certainly questionable

    3. The US is now at just under 1000 confirmed cases. Next stop – 10,000 within a week or so. Tick tock tick tock tick tock.

      Who’s the victim?

      1. Ding ding ding. Went from 970 confirmed cases or so when I posted that to 1020 now

        Tick tock tick tock tick tock

  5. …fear about coronavirus is just another red herring being served up by Democrats and the “Fake News” media who are eager to do him in.

    Are we pretending that the Fourth Estate and the opposition party are not eager to get him? Do we think the two institutions haven’t – and I’ll be generous here – been so eager that they’ve sidestepped some fact checking here or there?

    That said, of course in an election year politicians of all stripes are going to take advantage of any crisis to further their prospects.

    1. Reason has completely lost their marbles or I have can’t decide which. But when I find myself agreeing the most with Nick Gillispie about the cultural zeitgeist and journalism writ large it either means I’m way to old or everyone here has completely lost it.

    2. I’d say it’s more that his input filter is on display mixed with poor output filter.

    3. Are we pretending that “fake news” is a real phenomenon aimed at him?

      The only thing leveled at him are facts that are conveniently so damaging to him.

      1. Yes, Trumpvirus is a real thing.

      2. Still waiting for the really large military parade people were claiming Trump was going to do.

        Still waiting for all the slave labor and death by gassing at the “concentration camps” on the southern boarder.

        “”The only thing leveled at him are facts that are conveniently so damaging to him.””

        You’re a moron if you really believe that.

        1. Well he did gets his military “parade” last July 4th called “Salute to America”. As for other claim, I am sure he is working on it, he’s only human after all. Give the guy a 2nd term and he’ll work his magic for you; your patience will be rewarded.

          /tongue in cheek

          1. He’ll probably even rig the Quiditch matches with all that magic.

      3. Is this where I link to Glenn Greenwqlds list of fabricated media stories about trump?

      4. The term “fake news” was invented by the media to explain away Trump’s election and Hillary’s corruption.
        Trump then turned it around on them, and they’ve tried to memory hole its origin

        1. I think the “media” in as much as they are a single entity, had some trouble figuring out how to report on a candidate who told outright lies to them routinely. The vacillated between being impartial and not wanting to repeat obvious lies.

          1. Every president has lied to the media.

            The media even lies about Trump. Some of the media lying about Trump are former democrat operatives such as Joe Lockhart.

            You act like there is only one side to this.

            1. If DOL is talking, DOL is lying.

              It’s because he enjoys lying.

              1. R Mac, you don’t seem to have much substance in your objections. If you see a lie, be specific and let me address it.

                I realize the conspiratarian mind is apt to reject any new or nonconforming information as hostile, but please try to acknowledge your severe biases and limitations and embrace reality.

                1. If you see a lie, be specific and let me address it.


                  De Oppresso Liber

                  1. You think that’s clever? At least come up with something witty if you are going to be insubstantial.

                    1. Yeah it was pretty clever.

                      Because you don’t care about oppressed people in China as long as you can buy cheap shit.

                    2. He was being literal. You are Cytotoxic aka Chemjeff, child rape enthusiast. A known Canadian.

                  2. Shitlord, you are a nobody. You know this, which is why you do what you do around here. Maybe if you just focused on being a better person, someone would love you, and you wouldn’t have to seek attention from me.

                    R Mac, you are incredibly intellectually lazy. Provide evidence for your claims, or continue to be laughed at.

                    1. Wait, HE is a nobody?

                      Vince, you cant seem to stop pulling the same shit, like calling peope irrelevant.

            2. You act like any other presidential candidate has come even close to the amount and degree that Trump lies. He lies about things that are easily observable. Like, we can see the size of your inauguration crowd, stop lying about it.

              1. If you like your doctor, you can keep him.

                1. Mexico will pay for it.

                  Eliminate the federal debt in my first term.

                  2 other good ones. See, whatabouts are stupid.

                  1. Sure Vince.

                  2. Shorter Jeff: I’m claiming Trump is worse than all other politicians, but bringing up other politicians is whataboutism.

          2. You mean like “If you like your Dr you can keep your Dr.”?

            1. Yeah, like that, only this time you acknowledge when the lie happens.

              So either defend your cult daddy on his own merits (snicker) or just admit you are a hypocrite and cultist.

              1. De Oppresso Liber
                March.10.2020 at 12:10 pm

                I think the “media” in as much as they are a single entity, had some trouble figuring out how to report on a candidate who told outright lies to them routinely.

                This was in response to this statement. But you knew this, and tried to spin it. Because you’re dishonest.

                1. So your point is that Obama lied as much as Trump does now? Because that is an easy one to settle. Trump’s lie count is over 16,000 public lies, last time I checked.

                  There is no comparison, for sane people.

                  1. His point is that youre a liar Vince.

                    1. Which he is unable to substantiate. Very sad.

                    2. Is this where you start dropping N bombs again Vince?

                  2. Anyone who thinks that wapo count is real is an idiot.

                2. And a whole lotta ink was spilled over the “keep your doctor” comments, so I hardly think you can claim the media gave O a pass on that.

                  1. So they already knew how report on lies without lying?

                    Poor Little Jeffy’s tied himself into a pretzel.

                    1. I think you misunderstand. You are not able to comprehend this very simple argument. Trump lies much more so than any other candidate. This is not even controversial. The man lies about his own statements made on video. That is something new and different, much different than campaign promise lies like “Mexico will pay for it.”

                    2. Right but youre a lying sockpuppet Vince.

            2. Dude, who do you think is defending Obama here?

              1. Shut the fuck up idiot.

                1. Such a succinct admission of defeat.

                  1. Yes, your crying is Vince. Thank you.

      5. I heard Rachel Maddow heard that Bob Mueller heard that james comey heard that andy McCabe heard that petr strozk heard that john McCain heard the DNC heard that some Steele guy heard some Russian guy heard the concierge at moscows Ritz heard the bell hop heard the cleaning lady had to clean pee and tittie sparkles of the sheets after trump stayed in obamas bed.

    4. Looking in my googoo news feed, seeing headline like:



      Trump’s Nero fiddling tweet is too close to the coronavirus reality for comfort

      lead me to think that just maybe El Presidente is on to something. Given that the members of the press all but abdicated their responsibility during the O’Biden years, they can all go fuck themselves with a spiked glove.

    5. That said, of course in an election year politicians of all stripes are going to take advantage of any crisis to further their prospects.

      I thought we had decided that taking advantage of a situation for political gain was an impeachable offense. I was so looking forward to the non-stop impeachments of every single elected official, as the basic premise of an election – “Electing my opponent is a bad idea so you should vote for me instead” – is itself taking advantage of a situation (the situation being that your opponent is not as fit for office as you are) for political gain, is it not?

      1. Don’t worry, when Trump is no longer President, Reason will continue to publish multiple articles about impeachment being a good thing.

        Just you wait.

  6. This means an economic downturn or crash at this point could be very bad for Trump’s re-election campaign.

    The only thing that can turn this thing around is a total nationalization of our economy. That or maybe if the virus or panic runs its course by summer and the rebound begins.

    1. It’s not the Black Death. So yeah, it will blow over by the summer.

      1. So yeah, it will blow over by the summer April.


      2. The Black Death was good for the economy.

        1. It all but eliminated serfdom in England and gave rise to the merchant and middle class.

    2. On the whole I expect healthy recovery, we might have localized displacements though, which can drive a perception of things being worse.

  7. “Economic Intervention”


    Koch / Reason libertarians already know which policies will produce a strong economy. We advocate no minimum wage, and — this is the key — unlimited, unrestricted immigration. Only a Democratic White House can lead us out of the #DrumpfDepression.

    1. But what about immigration?

  8. I don’t understand why Kamala Harris shot this hostage-style video to show her support for Joe Biden. It looks weird!

    Seldom are hostages promised AG.

    1. Is that because most hostages are decent human beings not obsessed with gaining power to lord over their fellow man?

      1. They aren’t all John McCain.

  9. Boy, aren’t people gonna be upset that the Fed lowering the rate isn’t gonna magically make people want to spend money.

    Keynesians everywhere in disarray. We’ve needed a correction for some time.

    1. The crowd in here bitched about “Obama’s bailouts” (W’s bailouts, really). Let’s see how they react to trump’s bailouts. I’m sure they will be logically consistent.

      Pfffffgffhahaha. Sorry, I couldn’t.

      1. I opposed bailouts in 2007-09 and I oppose them today.

        1. Good for you. Me too. We should start a pledge.

          1. Send yours to your PM, Justin Trudeau.

      2. Pfffffgffhahaha
        Dude. Was that some sort of phleghmy cough? Have you been traveling overseas recently?

        1. Oh shit Oh fuck.

          1. Be a shame if you died Vince

            1. You baby fascists are all talk. Pretty hard to get that revolution going from your rascal.

              1. Wait, how fucking stupid are you Vince? You talk about being sick, then think someone is threatening you?

                God you’re a moron Vince.

                1. Fact of the matter is, it’s always you baby fascists fantasizing about or suggesting outright that other commenters kill themselves, get their heads on a spike, lined up against a wall, etc.. And none of the people who cry and wring their hands when I make a blowjob joke at them say shit about people telling others to kill themselves. Makes me really question all of your patriotic bona fides when someone tells you they are a veteran, and you suggest they kill themselves.

                  And the only reason these fantasies come out as suggestions instead of threats is because you are pussies who know that reason will actually ban your account if you start using honest threats. So carefully, carefully, depict your violent fantasies.


                  1. “Fact of the matter”

                    Fact of the matter is you talked about being sick, I said it would be a shame if you died, and your diseased mind turned that into a threat then wrote a wall of text justifying your stupidity Vince.

                    1. He really did, lol.

                    2. Pretend that these several comments exist in a vacuum, and you’d be correct.

                    3. “you’d be correct”

                      At least I got you to admit you were wrong.

                    4. Shorter Vince Smith “it’s your fault I fabricated a persecution narrative”

                    5. EpicXL, DOL likes to be an ass, then play victim when people are an ass in return, almost as much as he likes to lie.

                    6. Are you going to try to claim that several commenters Tulpa/shitlord/sparky among them, routinely call for me to kill myself and say that my head should be put on a spike, lined up against a wall, etc.?

                      Because it happens nearly every day.

                  2. when someone tells you they are a veteran,

                    You told us you never used socks either but it’s obvious you are also Vince Smith. So maybe we just know you’re lying and don’t care about your specious stolen valor claims.

                    1. You don’t know shit. As evidenced by your incorrect accusations that I’m someone else. And am I jeff, or vince, or cyto, or tony? or or or?

                      At least some of you are wrong. In actually, all of you are wrong.
                      Your cognitive dissonance is so thick, you cannot comprehend a veteran and GOP office holder disagrees with your cult daddy. Even though McCain existed, lol. So dumb.

                    2. Sure Vince. You ARE Vince. So stop lying please.

                    3. Vince lied about his service too

                    4. I just call you Jeff because you lie the exact same way he does.

                      I’m not really sure if you are, but I also don’t care.

                    5. At least R Mac admits to be so intellectually dishonest and lazy that he’d rather perpetuate a lie than have to think.

                    6. No I just think you’re such a dishonest piece of shit it doesn’t matter what I call you.

      3. Obama voted for W’s bailouts so he owns them too.

        1. Ssh. There’s dishonesty going on here.

          1. R Mac is so eager to call me out for “lying” that he does it even when I hold the same position as him.

            R Mac, you are either the dishonest one here, or are helplessly out of your intellectual depth. Maybe you need a new hobby other than politics, like sports.

            1. OK Vince.

        2. I agree.

          1. No one cares Vince. Go N bomb crazy again.

      4. W’s bailouts were supposedly repaid.

        O’s bailouts were really theft of GM stock from pension funds.

  10. Airlines are concerned that the Federal Register gives no clear end date on the data collection and worry that the US government could continue forcing them to collect it “for other purposes.”
    “It seems they want us to do this for forever and we are pushing back,” the first source familiar said. The airlines — particularly their lawyers — are worried about what Customs and Border Protection officials will do with the information.

    Listen you idiots, this information is necessary to keep Americans safe. And you can rest assured that as soon as this panic is over, all of these rules will be removed from the books. The government would never use a crisis to permanently expand its powers, it’s just not done.

  11. The U.S. is starting to withdraw some troops from Afghanistan.

    Of course we’d bring them home now that America is even deadlier than where they’re leaving.

  12. the outbreak’s effect on the economy is something that concerns Trump, according to myriad sources.

    Trump won’t ever be confused with the world’s brightest minds, but he loves the stock market, and when he sees the stock market getting fucked, he’s on it.

    Poor Kudlow. I don’t know if it’s because he doesn’t have makeup on everyday since he’s not on TV anymore, but when I saw him on TV yesterday he looked about 15 years older than he did before he took the job.

  13. The entire country of Italy is on lockdown to try and stop further spread of COVID-19.

    Tighten up those laces.

  14. A D.C. reverend at Christ Church Georgetown has tested positive for coronavirus, and Mayor Muriel Bowser is asking anyone who attended church on certain days in late February and early this month to self-quarantine.

    Tithe ten percent of your sputum.

  15. More bad economic news.

    Charles Koch current net worth: $53.1 billion

    Our benefactor has lost almost $9 billion this year. You thought things were bad when he was stagnating in the $58,000,000,000 to $62,000,000,000 range? Well the #TrumpVirus has made things even worse.


    1. If he has lost $9b this year, it really calls into question his business acumen

      1. It’s all relative – what Charles Koch lost this year is nowhere near as bad as what his brother David lost last year.

        1. Ouch.

      2. That’s unfair. Mr. Koch’s preferred labor force is highly skilled doctors and engineers crossing the US / Mexico border. It’s not his fault Orange Hitler has them all locked up in concentration camps.

  16. Many members of the media who were at CPAC are being asked by their employers to stay home.

    …and learn to cold.

    1. /sneezes on you to show disapproval

    2. Nice work

  17. Westworld season three premieres on Sunday! Here’s a refresher on what went down last season.

    Actually rewatching last season would not act as a refresher.

  18. If he thinks Harris’s 180 is bad, just wait until they find out what most Democrats said about Trump before he ran for president as a Republican.

    1. That knowledge has been lost forever.

  19. Rule #1 Never let a good crisis go to waste
    Rule #2 No crisis is so big that you can’t spend you’re way out of it

    1. We’re so used to getting screwed by the Democrats that way, but if the Trump administration and Congress suspend or eliminate payroll taxes because of the panic, that won’t be a bad thing. The only things we should do because of a panic are the same things we should be doing without the panic anyway. If the panic lets us do things we wouldn’t have the support to do otherwise, then that’s just fine.

      1. Libertarians for deficit spending! Hurrah! Keynes was a libertarian! Trump now, Trump forever!

        1. revenue and spending are unrelated, as any adult who has paid any attention to politics in their life should know.

          Cut revenue == good.
          Cut spending == also good.

          if they go bankrupt servicing their debt, it’s not my debt, it’s theirs.

          1. Might be their debt, but you will share in the bankruptcy just the same. You are American?

            1. That is not guaranteed lol. I for one can’t wait to see them collapse into a minimal government that barely services its debt.

              1. Oh, you’re nutty. I’m sure life would go on in your scenario, happy and free, with no other terrible consequence.

                1. Sure Vince.

            2. And you are not.

              1. I am. Unless you mean I’m not a rascal riding, sister fucking, just-asking-questions-here-FBI-crime-statistics-quoting, “real” american.

                1. No, you’re Vince Smith, and you love dropping N bombs when people shut you up.

        2. The idea that the government will ever become so flush with cash that it will decide not to spend it is laughable.

          If we want drunken sailors to stop spending our money, the first thing we should is stop giving them more of our money to spend.

          1. P.S. Artificially inflating the cost of hiring the unemployed or keeping people employed by taxing payrolls is stupid. Taxing labor and income may be the dumbest possible thing to tax–although taxing profits is also plenty stupid.

          2. Tax cuts don’t seem to slow spending either. So how about we give Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton their due, and bring back the balanced budget act.

            1. You know what is not going to slow spending? The left’s agenda.

              1. Nice non sequitur.

                1. In a conversation about taxes and spending, pointing out who’s political agenda will increase spending more is a non sequitur in Little Jeffy’s world.

                  1. Go ahead and show me how so called conservatives are going to spend less than the “leftist agenda”. So far we have Trump, W, and Obama trying to out deficit each other.

                    You like to talk shit, but I haven’t seen you back it up. Find some sources and do a bit of deep diving.

                    1. So it wasn’t a non sequitur, you just disagreed with it.

                      This is an example of you being dishonest.

                    2. We are speaking about balancing budgets and Trump’s giant deficits. Saying, “But leftists….” is a non sequitur, or in today’s parlance, a whatabout. And not even a good one, since it seems “leftists” run up the deficit less when they are president than “conservatives”.

                      And speaking of lies similar to “keep your doctor”, how is Trump eliminating the federal debt going? Odd strategy to keep adding to it.

                    3. It’s funny how you just ignore the shit you can’t refute, then go N bomb crazy Vince.

                    4. In a response to your comment about Newt and Clinton, in a conversation about taxing and spending, I must only talk about Trump. Got it.

                    5. R Mac, you are being purposefully obtuse, or you just have your head reaaaalllllly far up your ass.

                      I suggested we return to a balanced budget act. Vic responds with “but lefties”. How are those two comments related?

                    6. No one care what you think Vince. Spamming more won’t change that.

                    7. Shorter Jeff: I’m in charge of the conversation and will decide what points are legitimate. Bringing up Clinton and Newt is acceptable, but bringing up the current Democrats agenda is not.

                    8. “”I suggested we return to a balanced budget act. Vic responds with “but lefties”. How are those two comments related?””

                      Simple, because trying to tax the rich will not pay for all the spending programs the lefties are talking about. When you talk about balancing the budget, how much money do you plan to spend is a factor. No republican ever, that I know of, has suggested spending as much as the left has.

                    9. “”Go ahead and show me how so called conservatives are going to spend less than the “leftist agenda”. “”

                      That’s like trying to prove a negative. I have not seen any proposal by any conservative that matches the dollars spent by the very expansive and expensive programs the left are touting.

                      Show me where a conservative is proposing spending as much as the left. That should be pretty easy if it exists.

                      Btw, I don’t think the dems are any better than republicans and vice versa. However the levels of spending proposed by the left are larger than anything I’ve seen proposed in my lifetime and might not be winner with regular democrats. If it was, Bernie would be cleaning Biden’s clock.

                    10. Know what else won’t slow spending? A space program to Mars.

                      See how that statement could be true, but isn’t related to the topic at hand?

                    11. “”See how that statement could be true, but isn’t related to the topic at hand?””

                      Yet it is related. If the topic is spending and the affects thereof. Which includes deficits and debt.

            2. Tax cuts don’t seem to slow spending either.

              nothing slows spending. You’d have to be a damn fool to encourage giving the federal government more of your money.

              1. Balanced budget act slowed spending. Face it, the GOP under Trump and the religious nuts does not reflect fiscal conservative values.

                Trump and the GOP had two whole years were they could have done almost anything. No new balanced budget act, record deficits instead.

                1. Didn’t you mean “N bomb” Vince?

                2. It wasn’t the “balanced budget act’ so much as it was the line item veto passed by the new Republican Congress in 1995, but SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional. The President is (wrongly) held responsible for the budget by most voters, giving him a tool (used by most governors) to deal with it was useful, if temporary.

                  1. I’m sorry, but I’m not familiar with this theory. How did a scotus overruled law passed in 1995 result in a balanced budget from ’98 to ’01?

                    1. It wasn’t ruled unconstitutional for a couple of years, so Clinton was able to use it to trim the fat for at least a while. There are a lot of reasons why the budget deficit exploded over the last 50 years (the advent of omnibus budgets and the decline of the power of the old committee chairs are also part of it),!but for at least a while the President had a tool that allowed him to make cuts without “shutting down the government”

              2. Ah, no. The fools are encouraging the federal government to take more of other people’s money. Nobody said nuthin’ bout givin’. Ugly resentment at its worst.

            3. “Tax cuts don’t seem to slow spending either.”

              Do you imagine that if it weren’t for Prop 13, the state of California would have spent the same amount of money over the last 40 years?

              The question isn’t just whether tax cuts slow spending but also whether they prevent it. If there is less spending than their would have been otherwise without the tax cut, then there is less spending.

              Is this really the first time you’ve been exposed to these topics? It feels like I’m explaining this stuff to a child. If you’re an adult and you still don’t already know these things, you should be ashamed of yourself.

              1. Explain to me how running up the debt with an unfunded tax break stops spending. Go ahead. Because we have a perfect case example in the last few years right in front of us. Trump’s unfunded tax cut and growing spending.

                I too have taken several years of macro econ. I am not witnessing those theories play out, though.

                I can’t believe that saying we should have a balanced budget requirement for federal government is controversial in a libertarian forum. I guess whatever principles have to be sacrificed in order to support Trump through thick and thin is worth it?

                1. OK Vince.

                2. You’re starting on a false premise. Tax cuts are not funded. Government is. Why would you think that people keeping more of their own money is an expense?

                  1. If you propose a tax cut without also proposing a reduction in spending, you are proposing raising the debt. That’s what we call an unfunded tax cut.

                    Again, asking that politicians balance the budget did not used to be controversial among libertarians. What changed? Hmm, what is it? What’s that? You guys care more about punishing Mexican toddlers and owning the libs now? Ok.

                    1. Right but you just lied, and are a sockpuppet Vince. You most definitely have not taken several years of Macro.

                      “That’s what we call an unfunded tax cut.”

                      Right, the rest of us non progs call that theft Vince. Because it’s my money, not an unfunded anything.

                    2. “You guys care more about punishing Mexican toddlers and owning the libs now?”

                      Now this, dipshit, is a non sequitur.

                    3. So you do know what it is!

                    4. Tax cuts dont necessarily mean less revenue. This has been proven. Familisr with the Laffer Curve? Did you know Federal tax rdceipts goubled from ’82 to ’89 after income tax rates were cut from 70% to 28%?

                      Did yoj knos the 1990 Luxurh Tax cost the government millions, as it saw peopled stop buying the cars, planes, and yachts targeted? It was quickly repealled because lots of boat builders in Senate Maj Leader Mirchell’s home state of Maine became unemployed.

                  2. “I too have taken several years of macro econ”

                    Because he’s an economist. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have had any reason to take SEVERAL YEARS of macro econ.

                    Or, he’s a liar.

                    1. Several years means he flunked it a few times.

                    2. Perfectly valid counterpoint.

                    3. It’s probably both. He took several years of remedial math, because he flunked it a few times.

                    4. My major was finance. It included lots of econ.

                3. “Explain to me how running up the debt with an unfunded tax break stops spending.”

                  I’ll use California as an example. Last I saw, their outstanding debt was about $1.5 trillion. Their ability to spend isn’t restrained by their ability to tax. They have spent about $1.5 trillion more than they took in–and they financed that spending with debt.

                  Prop 13 restricted their ability to raise property taxes. If they had been able to raise property taxes, that would not have prevented them from spending as much as the market would lend them at reasonable rates. They would still be in debt by some $1.5 trillion–they just would have spent all that additional revenue collected by way of property taxes, too.

                  Therefore, Prop 13 restrained spending–because spending’s primary restraint is the ability to finance debt, and the government will always spend every penny it gets in tax revenue and then everything it can finance with debt on top of that.

                  It works the same everywhere. For Christ’s sake, progressive economic is built on Keynesian assumptions–that because the government has no marginal propensity to save and can be counted on to spend every single penny they get their hands on, Keynes preaches that government spending is the solution to the liquidity trap.

                  . . . which is to say that even your leftist economists would laugh in your face if you told them that tax cuts don’t restrain government spending. You can count on them spending every penny they get + whatever they can finance, and you can’t stop them from spending every penny they can finance–so you can restrain their spending by giving them less revenue to spend (and with which to pay the yield on their debt).

                  1. “Prop 13 restricted their ability to raise property taxes. If they had been able to raise property taxes, that would not have prevented them from spending as much as the market would lend them at reasonable rates. They would still be in debt by some $1.5 trillion–they just would have spent all that additional revenue collected by way of property taxes, too.”

                    That’s a big fat assumption that your argument rests on. And you keep using states as examples because the federal government is practically unconstrained when it comes to borrowing or creating money.

                    Trump has passed tax cuts in the last couple years, yet government spending and deficits have grown. Where is the reduction in spending? Where is it?

                    1. You’re a fucking idiot.

                      California still has to release violent criminals under order from the feds because overcrowding in their prisons was so out of control, their public pensions are still nowhere near under control–and they still wanted to squander billions on high speed rail rather than reign in that spending. The assumption that they’ll spend every penny they get in taxes–and then borrow whatever amount of debt they can service on top of that–isn’t an assumption at all. It’s a demonstrated fact since Prop 13 was passed.

                      If everyone who knows you laughs at you behind your back, it’s probably for good reason. You’ve been factually incorrect on every topic I’ve seen you write on in this thread–and the odds of that happening by chance are pretty slim. The most likely explanation is that you have a gaping hole where your knowledge should be. You are an ignoramus, and having stronger opinions than average people on topics you know nothing about makes you seem dumber than average.

  20. Can we start a pool for which of the presidential candidates will be the first to croak from Coronavirus?

    1. Dear Leader can heal your sickness with one touch!!

      1. Obama isn’t going to cure your corona virus dude.

    2. Then Tulsi, the only candidate under 70, can swoop in.

    3. Sorry! My joke was in very poor taste, but seriously is something to think about when all the candidates, including the incumbent, are senior citizens

      1. I have thought about it and it seems obvious to me that Biden will get it first from one of the many babies he touches, then he will give it to Bernie during the debate who will unfortunately succumb to it in some back alley after taking his own life. Then Hillary (who he named as his VP right before passing away) will step in to win the presidency.

      2. Sorry! My joke was in very poor taste

        I see you’re obviously new here, so you probably don’t know there used to be a commenter here who also went by the handle NoVaNick. He would have known better than to apologize for a joke in poor taste. You’ll learn, too.

        1. I was feeling contrite earlier for some reason

          1. Don’t let it happen again.

  21. A link to what cutting payroll taxes might have looked like from August of 2019 may not be a good picture of what to expect at all.

    Some in the White House support a proposal unveiled on Monday by Sen. Steve Daines (R., Mont.) that would temporarily suspend the payroll tax, though it wasn’t immediately clear how long a suspension Mr. Daines is proposing.

    “A challenge with payroll tax cuts is that they only directly help people who are working, not anyone who gets laid off. And the benefits would accumulate over the year rather than shoring up consumer spending immediately.

    However, a full suspension would be quite large, as much as 4% of gross domestic product.”

    Remember how Rahm Emmanuel once said, “You never want to let a crisis go to waste”? That was about using the panic of 2008 to do things like nationalize General Motors. Well, two can play at that game. We shouldn’t need an excuse to permanently eliminate payrolls taxes, but if the Trump administration can use the coronavirus as an excuse to get Congress to do exactly that, I’ll be impressed.

    Meanwhile, the proposals coming from the left are arguing for bailouts and the suspension of stipulations that only make unemployment benefits available to people who lose their jobs. How dare those racist Republicans deny unemployment benefits to people just because they’ve never had a job!

    1. What do you mean “two can play at that game”? The general motors bailout was in 2008 under President Bush.

      1. TARP was authorized by Congress under President Bush, but he only dispersed about half of it. GM was made eligible for TARP funds by way of the problems at GMAC finance (which had a subprime arm), subsequently renamed Ally circa December of 2008.

        It was Barack Obama, however, that nationalized GM with TARP funds. It was a culmination of failed negotiations between Gettelfinger at UAW and GM management. When the UAW failed to get GM management to budge on contract talks in the wake of the financial crisis, Gettelfinger started negotiating with the Obama administration to buy out GM, which is what the Obama administration did.

        “President Obama insisted at his press conference last night that he doesn’t want to nationalize the auto industry (or the banks, or the mortgage market, or . . .). But if that’s true, why has he proposed a restructuring plan for General Motors that leaves the government with a majority stake in the car maker?

        The feds have decided they should own a neat 50% of GM, yet that is not the natural outcome of the $16.2 billion that the Treasury has so far lent to the company. Nor is the 40% ownership of GM that the plan awards to the United Auto Workers a natural result of the company’s obligations to the union.

        Yet Secretary Timothy Geithner and his auto task force, led by Steven Rattner, have somehow decided that Treasury and UAW chief Ron Gettelfinger will get to own a combined 90% of GM. If there’s a reason other than the political symbiosis among the Obama Administration, Michigan Democrats and the auto union, it’s hard to discern. From now on let’s call it Gettelfinger Motors, or perhaps simply the Obama Motor Company”

        —-WSJ May 4, 2009

        P.S. Feel the wrongness.

        1. I have a feeling he already knew that — he’s just lying to salvage what’s left of his messiah’s reputation.

        2. P.P.S. Here’s one of my favorite Hugo Chavez quotes of all time:

          “Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Comrade Obama! Fidel, careful or we are going to end up to his right”

          —-Hugo Chavez

          Reuters, June 2, 2009

          1. But Obama was smarter than them. He nationalized it, then he gave it to the unions and sold off the rest… making the whole thing just a cash play. They simply transferred money from investors and creditors to the unions, leaving the company itself back where it started in the end.

            Chavez and Castro nationalized and tried to have their cronies run things. Which is why you can’t buy toiled paper in Venezuela.

            1. This is an absurd assessment.

              The U.S. government lost $11.2 billion on its bailout of General Motors, according to a 2014 government report. The government invested about $50 billion to bail out GM as a result of the company’s 2009 bankruptcy, and at one time held a 61 percent equity stake in the Detroit-based automaker.

              Treasury whittled down its GM stake through a series of stock sales starting in November 2010, with the remaining shares sold in December 2013 at a $11.2 billion loss.”


              This doesn’t include billions more in a tax holiday GM was given on their profits. The taxpayers got bent over and raped because of this, and that’s all there is to it.

        3. It is OK though, because Obama took $30 billion in secured debt and wiped it out in order to hand $30 billion to the unions to cover their pensions (which were not secured). IOW, he stole it. And not in your “taxation is theft” kind of way. Not even in your “asset forfeiture” kind of way. Nope, he just straight up stole it for the unions.

          Irony time…. the propagandists at CNN, NBC and MSNBC have been hosting politicians from Michigan telling everyone how “Biden saved the US auto industry” through the takeover of GM and Chrysler. As if nobody would ever have made a crappy Chevy sedan again. Bankruptcy would have handed the company to the creditors. Obama handed it to the union. (who didn’t want it and sold it the second they were able to…. .making it basically just a cash payoff to the union)

          1. This is a pretty good assessment. Cronyism is pervasive on the left as well.

            1. This is a pretty good assessment. Cronyism is pervasive on the left as well.


              1. You doubt that there is cronyism on the right?

                1. The concept is leftist.

                  It requires an economy pervaded by too much government control.

                  It represents the leftist ‘rule of men’ rather than the right ing ‘rule of law’.

                  1. “The concept is leftist.

                    It requires an economy pervaded by too much government control.”
                    “In France after the French Revolution, the Right fought against the rising power of those who had grown rich through commerce and sought to preserve the rights of the hereditary nobility. They were uncomfortable with capitalism, the Enlightenment, individualism and industrialism and fought to retain traditional social hierarchies and institutions.[16][55] In Europe’s history, there have been strong collectivist right-wing movements, such as in the social Catholic right that has exhibited hostility to all forms of liberalism (including economic liberalism) and has historically advocated for paternalist class harmony involving an organic-hierarchical society where workers are protected while hierarchy of classes remain.”
                    Sounds like cronyism is OG rightism.

      2. What the fuck dude? Are you that stupid, or are you just lying to protect the Lightbringer’s crumbling reputation?

        For the record, Congress *declined* to act on GM’s restructuring/bailout plan under Bush, although a bridge loan was provided. The bailout/bondholder screwing/union giveaway happened in 2009, under the Cronyist-in-Chief Obama. But you already knew that, didn’t you?

        1. When people base their facts on whether or not they like the implications, it leads them to believe some crazy things. How could he not know that Obama is the one that nationalized GM?

          I’d always been a Mopar guy. Had a convertible ’64 Plymouth Fury with a 383 in it as a kid. But in the ’60s Mustang vs. ’60s Camaro argument, I was always on the Chevy side of that argument . . .

          . . . right up until Obama used my future paychecks to nationalize GM to bail out the UAW’s pension fund like he was Hugo fucking Chavez. I don’t even want to look at a new GM car anymore. It affected me so deeply, I’d rather have an old Mustang. Well, truth be known, I’d rather have a ’49 to ’53 Rocket 88 than either an old Camaro or a Mustang, but GM even ruined that for me.

          You can’t drive one without knowing what GM did. It’s like owning the bat that won the 2017 World Series for the Astros. It’s like owning the record setting home run ball that Barry Bonds hit. It’s tainted. It’s an asterisk. You don’t restore an asterisk. You don’t ride down the road and feel great about it in an asterisk.

          1. Same here Ken. I’ve owned my last GMC truck — I wouldn’t think of buying another. Ford, on the other hand, now has my consideration, just due to the integrity they showed during bailout-mania. (Plus the new Mustangs just look great.)

            I’m an old-school Mopar guy — had a Challenger at one time (the Vanishing Point version, not the remake) — but the prospect of buying a Fiat just doesn’t seem appealing.

            Nice analogy by the way.

    1. That’s always been the case with them.

      When VA was having their rallies about the 2A legislation, all the lefties were whining about out-of-state gun activists showing up to support the cause. None of them were whining while a NY billionaire was buying them into office though, that kind of out-of-state influence is just peachy.

  22. Journalists are the most gullible idiots on the planet.

  23. Cant let charter schools have any help at all, we need to let run down buildings collapse instead of renting them to charters. Who do they think they are?

    1. there’s nothing more evil than not putting kids in public school run by teacher’s unions.

  24. “But Trump has also been a bit too keen on trying to turn the whole outbreak into a familiar narrative in which he is the true victim. In statements at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in late February and on Twitter, Trump has suggested that not only is everything fine, but that fear about coronavirus is just another red herring being served up by Democrats and the “Fake News” media who are eager to do him in.

    In any case, the outbreak’s effect on the economy is something that concerns Trump, according to myriad sources.”

    It’s kind of funny* to see a journalist criticize Trump for imagining that journalists are blaming him for the virus–and then see that journalist turn around, in the same paragraph, and accuse Trump for not taking the virus seriously back when it wasn’t having such a big impact on the economy.

    *No, I don’t mean funny, ha ha.

    1. Are you saying it’s irrational for Trump to imagine that journalists are blaming him for the virus, or are you claiming that he really is responsible for the virus because he didn’t take it seriously weeks ago?

      1. Pick one.

      2. These people are and have been for a while sick with politics. They are incapable of seeing any situation except as it relates to the success of failure of their politics. So any tragedy, not matter how grave, is a good thing in their eyes if it results in advancing their politics. It is just sick.

        1. How often do you see them contradict themselves from sentence to sentence?

          Trump is crazy because he thinks we’re all out to get him; meanwhile, we need to hold him responsible for this because he wasn’t taking it seriously weeks ago?

          If it really is subconscious, they need to snap out of it. It’s ridiculous.

          1. Trump is an idiot and a puppet of Putin, except when he is an evil genius who is going to declare himself dictator for life and not leave office.

        2. Majority Leader McConnell has referred to that (These people are and have been for a while sick with politics. They are incapable of seeing any situation except as it relates to the success of failure of their politics) as ‘fevered politics’ and he is right.

          It is sick. There is more to life than politics.

  25. “Very dramatic”? Trump learned a new word! I was expecting a strong, forceful, beautiful, perfect, greatest, yuge, unprecedented, historic, like you wouldn’t believe, like the world has never seen, and fantastic economic intervention, but not dramatic!

    1. This does raise the question of what we’re going to call it if the very dramatic economic intervention doesn’t push the DJIA over 30,000 and Trump declares a national emergency and starts having the federal government start buying up billions of dollars worth of stock in those specific corporations that make up the DJIA.

      I know what we call it when Bernie Sanders and his ilk propose that the government should own the means of production and pursue a very loose monetary policy, but we’ll have to call it something completely different when Trump does it.

      1. There is no chance anything like that will happen. If it did, however, it would still be a lesser and more lawful action than TARP and the porkulus.

        1. “If it did, however, it would still be a lesser and more lawful action than TARP and the porkulus.”

          Either John has an advance copy of this new spending bill, or he’s made his mind up about it before knowing what it is.

          1. Lol. Jerryskids brings up Trump declaring a national emergency and buying billions of dollars worth of stocks. John says that won’t happen, and Little Jeffy asks John for proof.

            Clown world folks.

            1. “If it did, however, it would still be a lesser and more lawful action than TARP and the porkulus.”

              You really need a new hobby. This one is not complimentary to your skills and abilities.

              1. You meam like your hobby of dropping N bombs Vince?

              2. So jerryskids post should be ignored. The one John is responding to.

                This is another example of why I say you’re dishonest.

                1. Yes, the one where John says that even if Trump does a bailout, it’s going to be better and more awesome and more legal than Obama’s bailout. Jerryskids post can be ignored or considered, it doesn’t change the fact that John has already decided that if Trump does a bail out, it’s going to be A OK, or at least better than Obama.

      2. We call it “fascism”. Which is really socialism under a different name. The means of production are nominally in the private sector, but the state dictate how the means of production will be used.

        Trump isn’t full on fascist, but in the same way progressive Democrats are Socialist-Lite, Trumpism is Fascism-Lite. Fuck, he even wanted his own military parade.

        1. Yeah because only fascist countries have military parades. You know, like the US during its entire history until the 1960s.

          And when Trump starts buying stocks and putting corporations under government control, you can feel free to call him a fascist. Until that happens, you are just acting delusional and look ridiculous.

        2. The thing about fascism, is that almost every person in the world is living under it, so we changed the meaning to racist authoritarian.

          1. Brandy is among the most shallow and least insightful posters here

            1. At least he isn’t as stupid, nor bloviates nearly as much as Squirrelly.

        3. Trump isn’t fascist at all.

          Fascist really isn’t fascist.

          Socialism: A system wherein the state owns and controls the means of production.

          Fascism: A system wherein the state controls the means of production.

          These are the same system.

          He who controls a thing, owns that thing.

      3. Not only is Trump not proposing to nationalize anything (like Obama did when he nationalized GM), they’re reporting that Republicans in Congress are actively opposing anything like stimulus.

        They are talking about offering sick pay to people put under quarantine–if their employer doesn’t provide them with sick pay.

        They’re talking about slashing payroll taxes.

        These seem to be imaginings of yours based on the idea that there are no ideological differences between Republicans and Democrats–since neither one of them are libertarians, I guess?

        I’m not seeing any basis for these assumptions in reality.

        1. Ken, if I were to ask you a simple yes-or-no question, would you be able to give me a simple yes-or-no answer?

          1. If I asked you a simple yes or no question, would you answer that there’s no difference between yes and no because neither of them are libertarian?

            1. Thanks.

              1. Bravo

                1. Not sure why the “bravo”. I asked Ken if he was capable of answering a yes-or-no question, he said “no”.

                  1. “Not sure why the “bravo””

                    “$park¥ is the Worst”

                    I wonder how long he’ll use that screen name before he realizes how sad it is that he doesn’t even have his own identity.

              2. I mean in fairness my answer would have been “Depends”.

  26. Yaayyyy! 25 trillion here we come!

  27. > “payroll tax cuts, subsidies for hourly wage earners”

    So cut taxes at the same time you bump up spending? More proof this guy can’t do math.

    Cut the taxes, yes. But cut the spending too! Otherwise you’re just a bunch of tax cutting welfare queens.

    1. All spending is a “tax.” If you choose not to pay for it now, then it’s a tax on future generations or a tax on savings through inflation.

      1. So you admit Trump is raising taxes on future generations. Good, good.

        1. Yeah, spending is definitely the problem. Trump has actually increased spending, or at least signed spending increases from Congress.

          That’s not to say that tax cuts aren’t good. Given that tax revenue tends to track GDP in the last 70 years, growing GDP is a way to increase total tax revenues, if you want to manage deficits. Tax cuts will facilitate GDP growth to a certain extent.

    2. spending is a function of revenue. A near-constant function at that. Deficits will never, ever be eliminated.

      1. Tax revenue correlates to GDP. But deficits don’t seem to have any correlation to GDP (revenues.)

        Deficits will never, ever be eliminated.
        We’ve seen budget surpluses as recently as 2001. That’s not that long ago. Deficit/GDP since has been as high as 9.8% and as low as 1.1%. All of this implies that spending and revenue don’t really trend together.

      2. 1997-98 called.

        1. and what did you learn from that? lol

          Yeah a one or two year blip until they jacked up the spending again. You can believe in fairy tales, the easter bunny, and balanced budget all you want, it’s not ever going to be a reality.

          1. “Let’s just surrender right now,”

            –I, Woodchipper, moments after the Pearl Harbor attack.

            1. “keep stealing from the people, because my concern about the debt makes it OK”

              You, all through this thread Vince.

              1. Libertarians for deficit spending! All Hail Keynes!

                1. Hey man we get it, you think stealing my money is ok.

                2. Quote one person in this thread calling for deficit spending.

                  And no, saying taxation is theft is not an endorsement of spending. We want spending to come down too.

                  So, that quote?

                  1. “You can believe in fairy tales, the easter bunny, and balanced budget all you want, it’s not ever going to be a reality.”

                    Sounds like a defeatist endorsement of deficit spending to me. Especially as a response to a real live example of a balanced budget in our recent past.

                    1. Nope, try again.

                      Acknowledging that balanced budgets are not a reality is not an endorsement on anything.
                      It would take a biased mind doing a little projecting to think it does.

                      I don’t think racism will go away. That’s not an endorsement of racism.

                    2. But we have had balanced budgets before, not too long ago. So saying it’s impossible does seem to be endorsement masquerading as defeatism

              2. Spending without taxation is still stealing, moron. Someone has to pay at some point.

        2. You do know that the national debt increased during those years as well, right?

          The “surplus” was in payroll taxes that went right into the SS “trust fund” bonds.

  28. “The White House has also weighed an expansion of paid sick leave…”

    Free paid vacation. Whatever you subsidize, you get more of. I foresee massive fraud on an epic scale.

    1. The flip-side is whatever you punish, you get less of.

      Seeing as minimum wage food service employees are punished for staying home when they’re sick, you get less of that, i.e., more of food service employees coming to work sick (for which they are rewarded).

      It’s almost like there’s a balance between competing interests.

      1. That’s exactly what the whole premise of expanded sick leave is directed at. But look at what happened back in 2008 with extended unemployment benefits. The program was supposed to be directed at the poor sod who simply had massive problems finding employment. Maybe the guy lives in an economically depressed area, has few job skills, etc. But for every one of these guys there were hundreds that simply took extended vacations. It’s politically incorrect to even bring this up. Employers started to complain about the massive armies of people just applying for jobs that they had no intention of taking – they just needed someplace to list they had looked for a job on their unemployment form. Eventually, employers started posted that no long term unemployed need apply. Then states started passing laws that you couldn’t discriminate against the long term v̶a̶c̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶e̶d̶ unemployed. Subsidized unemployment, got more of it.

        1. I remember years ago some lady came in and asked me to sign a form stating she had applied for employment. I refused as we were not hiring and she never even bothered asking if we were hiring. She got really angry and claimed I was infringing on her godvernment given rights.

          1. I remember when you begged Reason to censor people.

        2. Are you trying to argue that the pre-2008 unemployment benefits were also too generous? Because your story doesn’t say a word about that.

          Which would seem to bolster my point: there’s a balance to be found for optimum results.

          1. Unemployment benefits are paid through the required purchase of unemployment insurance by employers. I don’t care how generous or how long. Surely you must know this.

            Extended unemployment was a federal government program that was paid for by the printing press and incentivized people to that could withstand the pay cut to remain unemployed.

            Double the amount paid to unemployment insurance and double the length of unemployment benefits – I don’t give a shit.

      2. Not getting free money for staying home does not “punish” anyone.

        Everything is so terrible and unfair. Haha.

        1. So you’re on the “people should go to work with communicable diseases” bus, then?


    2. Haha. If Bernie gets in and does UBI, I will be retiring 20 years early.

      That will be epic.

    3. “Whatever you subsidize, you get more of. I foresee massive fraud on an epic scale.” — Well said.

      The precedence is set – now every-time someone gets sick or calls in a sick day to go shopping will be allowed to steal their pay from those going to work.

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  30. Trumps either not doing enough or doing too much and i think this article manages to do both. TDS

    1. Kept hearing this one a lot recently
      Idiot Trump overruled CDC on telling seniors to avoid air travel

      I can only imagine if he had said to avoid air travel:
      Idiot Trump inciting a panic telling seniors to avoid air travel

      1. > Idiot Trump

        But you repeat yourself.

        1. Seek treatment.
          Of fuck off.

        2. I mean do you think that was clever, considering you basically just proved his point with your snarky remark?

  31. This sort of totally unexplained flip-flop (on issues from health policy to racism and beyond) is the exact kind of thing that made Harris come across like a politics-first phony when she was running for president.

    Trevor Noah and the Daily Show criticizing politics-first phonies is like…..well, I was going to say the pot calling the kettle black, but it’s more like a black pot calling a black pot a black pot. John Wayne Gacy calling Jeffrey Dahmer a horrible person?

    1. Ed Gein calling dahmer a macabre cheesehead?

    2. John Wayne Gacy calling Jeffrey Dahmer a horrible person?

      Trevor Noah calling Jeffrey Dahmer unfunny?

      1. Seriously. Who ever thought Trevor Noah was funny? He’s the lefty version of a blonde bimbo on fox.

        1. THIS! I seriously don’t know who the hell would watch that drivel. It’s great to make fun of politicians but the operative word is ‘fun’. What a horses pa-toot.

          1. White people who miss Obama.

            1. So you Vince.

              1. I just said he’s not funny. So clearly not me.

                If we are going to do this back and forth, will-they-won’t-they thing, at least learn to read.

                1. Right but you’re a liar and a prog thief so yes you Vince.

                  1. So I’m lying when I say something that you agree with, but telling the truth when I say something you don’t agree with.

                    Folks, do we need any clearer an example of tribalistic scapegoating?


    Looks like the Kung Flu depression the Democrats have been hoping for has been postponed for a bit. Oh noes.

    1. I wouldn’t make any predictions based on where the stock market fluctuated–not when the underlying question is the duration of the epidemic, which is a question that may not be answered until it’s over.

      If you want to see something that MIGHT MIGHT MIGHT signal a recession, look at the yield curve.

      See how the 1 year and 2 year are yielding less than the 1 month and two month?

      That’s not a good sign for growth between two months and a year from now–regardless of whether I want that to be the case.

      Of course, if the virus peters out after a couple of weeks, the yield curve will change dramatically and may no longer be inverted at all.

      1. The inversion signal is the most consistent technical signal I’m aware of. We were headed for a correction anyway. Recent event are just acting as a catalyst.

        1. I should say not just a catalyst, but a catalyst for built up bearish pressure as well as having its own effects.

          1. Sure Vince.

        2. Except that what we’re seeing is the illusion of one.

          All the volatility in the market –including the oil issues–is COVID based.

          As the nature of COVID becomes more apparent, that will all fade.

          1. The yield curve inversion began a few months before any corona news. I’ve read some analysis that insists that this yield curve is different this time ™, but I’m not convinced.

            I hope you are right, though.

            1. Didn’t you mean to drop a bunch of N bombs again Vince? Or gay slurs?

            2. During the Democrats impeachment party?

        3. The inverted yield curve is an indication of where we’re likely headed given the direction we’re going at the moment and given the data we have now. Calling that a prediction isn’t accurate. It’s a signal and people can respond to signals and change direction.

          1. It’s a signal that has been predictive every time it has occurred since 1975. You want to bet against a 45 year long streak, that’s up to you.

            1. How many recessions have we had since 1975?

              The correct answer is five, and as sample size goes, that’s way too small of a sample. Meanwhile, the yield curve has signaled a recession twice since 1950 without there being one. . . . people who know what they’re talking about say there’s only a 30% chance of a recession within a year of an inversion . . .

              Are you planning to pay me to educate you, are you planning to get this education for free by regurgitating half baked shit you don’t understand and waiting me to correct you?

              If you understood half the shit you talk about, you wouldn’t say or believe so many stupid things.

  33. Twice — once in a subheading, once in a link label — this blog entry has “Trump’s payroll tax” instead of “Trump’s payroll tax cut“. When you start strategically omitting words, how much farther down the distortion road can you go?

    1. I’m pretty sure no further down that road than linking a payroll tax cut to a virus.

      Panem et circenses

    2. When you think about it, a tax cut is basically a tax on our children’s future. A tax on their clean air, education, and happiness so that billionaires can have more gold in their scrooge mcduck style swimming vaults

      1. A tax cut is the end of the world! It’s literally death for us all!

        1. Do you plan on letting your kids inherit your debt?

          1. It’s not my debt. It the federal government’s. Big difference.

            1. But you and your kids will still suffer the effects of it.

              1. only if they vote for the same idiots we have today.

                Better to have your money now than hope that the future government will not take it.

                1. You’re just not thinking as a member of the collective, chip. Where’s your guilt?

                  Then again, people who do think that way tend to be miserable, resentful people like “Oppresso”.


                  1. Just acknowledging reality. You think you will be unaffected by the collapse of the petro dollar? Think again.

                  2. And who is more miserable? The person engaging in a good faith exchange of ideas, or the people who immediately resort to insults and attacks, almost as if they know they are on shaky ground intellectually, and wish to end the debate before it begins.

                    1. I see no one here with your handle engaging in a good faith exchange of ideas.

                    2. The sad thing is, I think he really believes he argues in good faith.

                    3. “The person engaging in a good faith exchange of ideas”

                      You mean like when you busted out a sockpuppet and dropped N bombs until getting banned Vince?

      2. All tax cuts need to be accompanied by spending cuts. I don’t give a shit about the Laffer Curve. Even if you can point to where we are on the curve, the goal is to reduce the size of scope of government. You do that by cutting spending.

        1. While I completely agree with your assessment of what should be, I wouldn’t let the perfect get in the way of the good. Tax cuts are good. Letting people keep more of their property (money) is a libertarian concept. Period.

          1. and let’s not kid ourselves. The less money they have the better. Giving them MORE will only cause them to spend and borrow EVEN MORE than they do now.

            See California during the 2008 crisis. First budget cut in history because…. the REVENUES went down.

        2. “…I don’t give a shit about the Laffer Curve…”

          Math is hard, right?
          Fuck off.

        3. No, the goal is to increase liberty. In today’s world, that usually requires a decrease in the size and scope of government, but not always, and it’s important to recognize that distinction. A tax cut increases liberty, especially because associated debts may never be paid off. So it trades away the certainty of a tax now for the possibility of a tax later. That’s a good trade for liberty.

      3. Have taxes actually provided any education to kids (other than hands-on sex ed from teachers to underage students)?

        1. That wasn’t just “hands-on”

  34. “…the exact kind of thing that made Harris come across like a politics-first phony when she was running for president.”

    IOWs, it was an honest representation of that scumbag.

  35. “I mean, even the Taliban is looking at this video like, ‘We had better lighting and we were in a cave!'”

    Trevor Noah, funniest comedian on TV.

  36. “ And supporters outside of his unconditional-love base…”

    That’s a good way to put it.

    1. I’m surprised none of the commenters here like lc1789, Jesse, John acknowledged the shout out.

      1. I wouldn’t lump John in with those lunkheads. He is a lot of things, but total douche isn’t one of them.

        1. Lolol you two deserve each other.

          1. Some day you’ll make a friend. You have to change everything about you first, but still.

            1. If that friend is anything like you two, then it was a waste of time Vince.

        2. I used to be of that mind, but John’s freak out on the last abortion thread was the final straw. I’ve changed my mind.

          1. Well, the good news is your friend is an idiot, Vince.

          2. Nobody cares.

        3. He’s called me a “financial terrorist” for saying I wouldn’t go to a grocer that would kick me out for being gay.

          “Total douche” is entirely appropriate.

  37. God forbid Trump ever gets his hands on George W. Bush’s weather machine. Then you’ll really have something to whimper about.

    1. I’d like to see this in animated form.

      1. Cool story Vince.

  38. The U.S. is starting to withdraw some troops from Afghanistan.

    We’re going to need them for the next country we invade.

    1. I’ve got my fingers crossed for Turkey.

      1. How about somewhere with booze and uncovered women?

        This mid east wars are a real drag in the downtime.

        1. I thought you hated brown people Vince? Why did you drop all those N bombs then?

      2. Maybe Greece will help

  39. The entire country of Italy is on lockdown to try and stop further spread of COVID-19.

    Now one day, we may need you to do a favor for us…

  40. I don’t think we’ve given this plague a fair shot.

    French mayor defends smurf rally

    1. dude I found out there *is* a Smurf rally today. i’m totally going.

  41. Ending O’s “The Good War” is hilarious.

  42. How long is this charade going to go on?

    Of the twenty-six U.S. deaths reported to be due to the coronavirus, nineteen are from one single elderly care facility in Washington State. That leaves SEVEN deaths across the rest of the United States– 2020 population, about 327 million.

    Meanwhile, the worldwide count of serious and critical cases continues to decline.

    It’s SEASONAL FLU. But exactly like with SARS and H1N1, which killed between about 800 and 12,000 people GLOBALLY (ballpark, one in 100,000 to 1 in a million or so), the entire world– and especially its governments– has set its collective hair on fire and jumped out the window.

    Buy stocks while you can, because in a couple of weeks when it’s clear this is all blowing over, the market recovery will be breathtaking.

    1. Why does literally everything have to be a conspiracy theory with you people?

      It’s freaking weird.

      1. It’s not a conspiracy at all. I don’t think I suggested anything of the kind.

        Who do you mean, “you people”? You have no idea who I am.

        1. It’s ten times more deadly than the seasonal flu and whole countries have quarantined themselves. I can only assume this is not because the New York Times is overhyping it to hurt Trump. But you could be right. Since presumably neither of us has any more information than the actual experts, you want to put some money on this blowing over in a couple weeks like you claimed? It would be a fair bet, since, gain, neither of us knows what the hell we’re talking about.

          1. You did see the link about worldwide count of serious and critical cases declining, right? Do you really think that’s in response to global quarantines, or the bug simply burning itself out as normal, healthy people allow their bodies to work through it like they would a regular flu virus?

            1. I also see a chart that shows cases outside China on a pretty steep upward curve currently. People say two things about China: it’s at least claiming to respond effectively, and that the methods it’s using are too draconian for a free country to contemplate.

              What’s the libertarian solution to a global pandemic, other than blind optimism?

              1. I also see a chart that shows cases outside China on a pretty steep upward curve currently.

                Considering the bug started IN China, it would make sense that they saw their own spike before the decline began, yes?

                1. Let’s meet back here in a couple weeks and see how many cases there are in the US.

                  1. The first diagnosed case in China was December 10th.

                  2. That’s how Tony admits he’s wrong and acting stupid. It’s the best you’ll get from DOL/Vince.

                  3. Tony….try June.

            2. Trumpist dilemma:

              On one hand, quarantines make a great counter point to beat up the old open borders strawman with.

              On the other hand, we are trying to pretend that covid19 is nothing to bother with.

              1. Thanks for proving me correct.

              2. “Trumpist”

                TDS is real Vince.

              3. Corona virus is a hoax, right? That’s what everyone is saying.

      2. Pointing out the irrationality of worldwide leaders in response to a viral bug that is highly transmittable, but fatal primarily to the elderly with existing health problems and healthcare workers–which is no different than any of the previous flu-like bugs coming out of shithole China–is hardly a conspiracy.

        1. And fuck the elderly, really. If only this could have targeted kids too, we could just get rid of all those humans who make libertarian philosophy incredibly inconvenient when applied to the real world.

          1. Yeah, why should reality get in the way of passive-aggressive progressive wishcasting for the global recession they’ve been predicting for the last four years?

            1. I don’t know why you can’t just let Trump do his own whining about how the real problem isn’t people dying from a virus but how bad it hurts his poll numbers. He’s got this yo.

              1. I’d settle for a decline in progressive whining, but considering who their Presidential nominee is about to be, I’m not optimistic.

                1. Bernie’s not going to be the candidate so you only have to worry about incessant whining coming from the GOP side.

                  1. Oh, I don’t know, Milwaukee should be a (literal) blast.

                    1. You should worry about how organized Democrats were in not only ruining Bernie’s chances but doing so in a way that will prevent him from making any legitimate whine about it.

                      He’ll be stuck with “The evil Democratic establishment denied me my nomination, so please superdelegates vote for me.”

                    2. You should worry about how organized Democrats were in not only ruining Bernie’s chances but doing so in a way that will prevent him from making any legitimate whine about it.

                      Well, sure, look how great it worked out for them four years ago.

                    3. This is hardly my ideal situation.

                    4. Well yeah, you had to rig another election to avoid admitting your party preferred a socialist. That’s gotta sting.

                    5. ^^ See. You jump to a conspiracy theory before you jump to a fact in front of your face. It’s a particular kind of stupid.

      3. Come on, Tony, I’m sure you have observed that people can and often do act irrationally, without any nefarious plot encouraging them to do so.
        I’m not sure what to think just yet, but Colossal D-bag didn’t suggest any kind of conspiracy.

        1. Who’s acting nefariously again? The CDC? Definitely not Trump. I got that much. Perish that fucking thought.

    2. It’s not even flu.

      It’s coronavirus.

      15% of colds are caused by the coronaviruses that affect humans.

      Every death is from something other than the virus itself. Every death is from other diseases taking advantage of weakened immune systems.

      This is the way all deaths ‘from’ colds happen.

      The world is panicking over a strain of the common cold.

  43. Trump boasted that ‘the stock market is starting to look very good to me’ . . . just before the two largest one-day drops in American history.

    Trump said the number of American coronavirus cases would ‘soon be near zero’ . . . just before they began to increase substantially, with no end in sight.

    Trump’s White House leaked that Democrats might intentionally expose the President to the virus . . . just before Doug Collins, Matt Gaetz, Matt Schlapp, and Ted Cruz happened, bringing virus risk onto Air Force One and to the President.

    Essentially, everything this administration has said about this public health problem (and related economic problem) has required correction or retraction . . . and/or should be ignored by educated, sensible, reasoning Americans.

    Carry on, clingers. So long as your betters permit, that is, which is looking like a few more months.

    1. You sound desperate.

      1. He sounds infected. I think he’s a-gonna die.

      2. You look roasted.

        1. You look like a faggot, Tony.

  44. Starting to hit home here. There are reported cases now.

    Our local synagogue has a member who tested positive and is now in self-quarantine. He had been there one time from what I heard. They have sanitized the whole place. They are still in operation. Purim today.

    There was also a worker at one of the Jewish schools who is positive. All of the local Jewish schools are closed as it is a close community.

    Other things are starting to happen. My wife works with the public. They are taking extra precautions sanitizing the work area and other things. The customers showing up are down to half.

    Stopped even looking at the 401k. Running on faith. Not retiring yet anyway.

    Small things so far. Ripples. Like fishing and you see the water break. Might be fish there.

    National guard called out in NY.

    Reporting from flyover country on the North Coast.

    1. YES! EXACTLY…. The Federal Government isn’t going to FIX the spread of the Corona-virus… In fact it’s UN-Constitutional for them to try. All they are going to do is shovel money around they didn’t earn but instead STOLE and play the almighty king game.

      I even had to look into what authority the feds have on the spread of disease.. Found out the CDC works by the power of commerce among-st the states which was put in place to eliminate trade-wars between states.

      Today’s Interpretation –
      commerce – an interchange of goods or commodities = diseases.
      among-st = within.

      I’m getting more disappointed in Trumps new policy routes every day… Subsidizing hourly workers??? WTF!!!! Trees? Mars? These are all Communist plans!!! I miss the FIRST few years…

      1. Art 1 Sec8 – To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress

        Disease outbreak and natural disasters are two of the three main reasons colonial militias mustered. Course we don’t do that anymore and you morons think militia is all about guns

        1. “Disease outbreak and natural disasters are two of the three main reasons colonial militias”, I’m gonna need a respectable citation to believe that claim.

          Needless to say – the feds aren’t lobbying to send out the militia. I’m afraid your claim is way to far-fetched for my imagination.

          Infected communities should deal with the issue – NOT the almighty king federal government which seems to be all many people think exists anymore with their wildly intoxicating consumption of all-concerning authoritarian power.

          1. The mindset in today’s society, “I caught a rare flu virus so I better not go to work… I guess I’ll call the President of the United States so he can address my personal problems.”

            It’s the same idiocy of asking Trump to put out your house on fire – as-if he’s going to have the time and get there quick enough to do a darn think for you!!! Of course society is disappointed in the federal government – they’re calling the plumber to come fix their computer…

          2. I need to self-correct – Except when infection is getting imported. I believe the Federal is the Nation-to-Nation Governing body so as I read more about the details of this issue and seeing federal quarantines on international travel; that certainly wouldn’t be just a community issue. Who knows the Constitutional Power for this??

    2. Here too. First two cases were confirmed last Thu. Now 18 confirmed. Presumably they are serious enough to have gone to hospital but don’t know. Age distribution is interesting:
      2 teenagers
      4 30 somethings
      4 40 somethings
      4 50 somethings
      4 70 somethings

      So once hospitals fill up and no longer admit, the fatalities might not skew as old as they did in Wuhan (where hospitals were only overwhelmed for a week or so before more hospitals were constructed). Just a guess but I’d assume untreated fatalities aligns more with serious cases demographics. ICU/heroic intervention almost certainly works much better on the younger – even though they clog up the ICU’s for longer too. Hospitals are going to have some difficult triage decisions in a few weeks.

      We’re also trying to copy Korea in a half-assed way. Drive-up testing at one location. But it requires that you have a doctors ‘order’ for testing and they’re gonna be doing id checks. It is free though and requires no proof of insurance. It will fail though since the uninsured are unlikely to even have a doctor (multi-month wait to get a first appointment) and the money to pay them and then wait in line to get tested. So instead they’ll keep working and superspreading.

  45. Unreason is pretty desperate to get more webtraffic.

    Sending in more and more sock trolls and NPCs to fake argue.

  46. Tax cuts as a stimulus don’t work when demand is low due to a quarantined population. What will you do with the extra money if you cannot go out and spend it?

    And when the crisis is over people will be busting at the seems to get out and do stuff. Inventories will have been depleted and so factories will start running on the predicted upturn in demand. No tax-cut stimulus will be needed to get the economy started again.

    On the other hand, millions of people are getting hurt because their hourly shift work is being dramatically cut or they are laid off. A payroll tax cut does absolutely nothing for them.

    This is a good example of how simple-minded Trumpian thinking works. He has one tool – cut taxes, and gosh darn it,m he’s going to keep using it.

    1. “millions”?? – Try 1,015 as of … March 10th. What’s your brilliant solution? Do you think ripping on Trump is going to cure it or what? What is your community doing about it? Yelling at the president of the United States which in that scope only has a 1-in-2.4 Millionth chance of having any effect what-so-ever.

  47. Trump’s massive subsidy program caused the DJIA to jump 1,000 points yesterday! Today, it is DROPPING 1,000 points.

    That went well!

    At least our progeny will be paying the bill FOREVER for Trump’s largess with OPM. Somehow this result seldom gets mentioned, even by the hostile MSM.

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