Impeachment

Team Trump's Final Defense: He Didn't Do It, but Even If He Did, It's Not Impeachable

"You must do what the Constitution compels you to do: reject these articles of impeachment, for the Constitution and for the American people," said White House counsel Pat Cipollone.

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President Donald Trump's legal team on Tuesday completed their arguments in his Senate impeachment trial, with White House counsel Pat Cipollone casting the process as overtly partisan and unconstitutional. 

"You must do what the Constitution compels you to do: reject these articles of impeachment, for the Constitution and for the American people," he said. Cipollone made an appeal to the "sanctity of the voting process," telling lawmakers that a conviction would betray the results of the 2016 election and similarly meddle in the 2020 race. 

Trump's defense evolved slightly over the course of three days of arguments, with the team initially emphasizing the president's purported innocence. Following John Bolton's allegations—the former national security adviser says Trump directly conditioned military aid to Ukraine on the announcement of politically motivated investigations—they then pivoted to argue that such an offense would not be impeachable. The House impeached Trump in December for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress for his role in seeking to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy into announcing probes that targeted Trump's political foes.

"We know there was no quid pro quo on the call, we know that from the transcript," Michael Purpura, an attorney for Trump, said on Saturday. "You cannot impeach a president on an unsourced allegation," echoed lead outside counsel Jay Sekulow on Tuesday, though he added that "even if everything in there was true, it constitutionally doesn't rise to that level."

It's an argument that Alan Dershowitz, the retired Harvard law professor, zeroed in on during his presentation to the Senate on Monday evening, after previous presenters skirted addressing the Bolton claims. 

"Nothing in the Bolton revelations, even if true, would rise to the level of an abuse of power or an impeachable offense," said Dershowitz. He further argued that "non-criminal conduct, including 'abuse of power' and 'obstruction of justice,' are outside the range of impeachable offenses," a reversal of the position that Dershowitz himself held during former President Bill Clinton's impeachment. In 1998, Dershowitz said that there "certainly doesn't have to be a crime" to carry out the process. Current legal consensus comports with Dershowitz's original stance, and he has acknowledged that he is now in the minority.

Ken Starr, the former independent counsel whose investigation resulted in the Clinton impeachment, spent his time on Monday afternoon arguing that an impeachment must be "powerfully bipartisan" in order to hold any legitimacy. It was an ironic moment for Starr: While he highlighted the indisputable fact that Trump's impeachment has proceeded along partisan lines, Starr was a driving force behind the last impeachment—another partisan affair—which occurred just two decades ago. As I wrote yesterday

On the first three [Clinton impeachment] articles, just five Democratic House reps defected from party lines and voted alongside Republicans. On the last article, only one did. A heavier bipartisan consensus actually cut against impeachment, with five Republicans voting against article one, 28 against article two, 12 against article three, and 81 against article four.

Whether or not Starr has genuinely made an about-face on the particulars of impeachment and now regrets his role in the Clinton trial remains unclear. In his 2018 book Contempt, he offered a defense for the role he played, writing, "Abuse of Power stood at the center of The President's behavior." But on Monday he seemingly swung back-and-forth between rationalizing and negating the necessity of that impeachment. 

"The nation's most recent experience, the Clinton impeachment, even though severely and roundly criticized, charged crimes," Starr told the Senate. And those crimes were committed "beyond any reasonable observer's doubt." Yet minutes later, he added that "the commission of a crime is by no means sufficient to warrant the removal of our duly elected president." Bipartisanship, he said, is the only metric with which to measure the necessity of an impeachment, pointing to the 410–4 vote that authorized the impeachment inquiry into former President Richard Nixon. 

But Starr is wrong about the relationship between bipartisanship and impeachment. "Presidential impeachments have always been partisan," tweeted the Cato Institute's Gene Healy. "Even in the Nixon near-impeachment, a majority of Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee voted against every article."

Should we be surprised? Of course not. Politicians routinely move the moral goalposts to suit their partisan interests. Why would impeachment be any different?

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  1. It’s all a dog and pony show.

    Senators already know how they are going to vote. Prepare for the republicans to protect a republican like the dems protected a dem back in 98/99.

    1. Actually by having Dershowitz testify McConnell is conceding Clinton’s impeachment was illegitimate and that senators were correct to not remove him while the House abused their power.

      But Dershowitz is an unreliable authority so I simply choose to ignore him, but I think McConnell is very brave to finally admit the Clinton impeachment was illegitimate.

      1. You made the same bullshit, unsupported argument on the story earlier today. You seem not to be able to grasp what Derschorwitz was arguing and the fact that McConnell can disagree with his assertion about Clinton without agreeing with the argument about this impeachment, it isn’t all or nothing.

        1. Wrong, because inherent in Dershowitz’ argument is that he is an authority who has been consistent on this subject. So nobody would ever believe the opinion of an authority that is consistently wrong…so either Dershowitz was wrong about the Clinton impeachment or McConnell was wrong about the Clinton impeachment. If you believe Dershowitz was wrong about the Clinton impeachment then that means you should ignore his current opinion because he is an authority that is often wrong.

          1. “Wrong, because inherent”

            Aha yes, the mind reading thing agian.

            God you’re fucking worthless and stupid. Everything you post is riddled through with obvious butthurt about losing to Trump so much, and most of the shit you say is laughably wrong.

            1. From a policy perspective Trump has been great for Democrats except obviously with judges. So Obamacare is stronger than ever, Trump bailed out a union pension fund with $10 billion, he raised taxes on rich people with expensive homes, he is throwing billions at ethanol producers, and he is drawing down the asinine Bush/Cheney wars.

              1. “From a policy perspective Trump has been great for Democrats”

                Ahahahahahahahaj

                THIS IS WHY YOU KEEP LOSING AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJ

                1. If Obamacare being stronger than ever and union pension funds being bailed out is losing then I say let’s keep losing!! I actually want my fellow Americans to get medical care unlike you who would rather flush money down a toilet in the Middle East while Americans die in the streets.

                  1. AHAHAHAHAHAHHA HE ACTUALLY SAID ALL HIS LOSING AND BITCHING IS REALLY A GOOD THING AHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

                    I LOVE WATCHING YOU CRY SQRLSY TRUMP COMPLETELY OWNING YOU HAS ROTTED YOUR MIND AHAHAHAHAHA

                  2. “If Obamacare being stronger than ever”

                    AAHAHAHAHAHAHHA TRUMP COMPLETELY GUTTED IT BY KILLING THE MANDATE HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I LOVE HOW EVEN YOUR SIGNATURE ACCOMPLISHMENT HAS BEEN DESTROYED BY HIM AHAHAJAHAHJAJJAJA

                    1. Obama always opposed the individual mandate!!! Obama only agreed to it because Romney included it in Romneycare so he thought it might get Republican support!! Thank you Trump for giving us true Obamacare!!! Of course Trump only does it to help out the Kushner family so his corruption sometimes helps Democrats!!! You are so stupid!!

                    2. Ahahahahahahah Trump killshots his signature accomplishment AND YOU STILL THINK IT’S WORKING AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJAH

                      I LOVE KICKING YOU LIBEETYTRUTHTELLER AHAHAHAHAJ

                    3. “Obama always opposed the individual mandate!!!”

                      Except of course when he rammed it through, and THEN TRUMP KILLED IT AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJAAHAH

                      I LOVE HOW MUCH YOU KNOW IT’S DEAD AND HATE IT SQRLSY

                    4. “Obama only agreed to it because Romney included it in Romneycare so he thought it might get Republican support!!”

                      AHAHAHAHAHAH OBAMA ONLY AGRRED TO IT BECAUSE OF ROMNEY EVN THOUGH HE CONTROLLED BITH HOUSES AND THE EXCUTO E AHAHAHAHAHJA

                      GO WITH THAT HAHAHAHAHA

                      HE ACTUALLY SAID OBAMA WAS SO WEAK AND INEFFECTUAL THAT HE NEEDED R’S EVEN WHEN HE CONTROLLED BOTH HOUSES AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

                      HOW FUCKING PATHETIC AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

                    5. AAHAHAHAHAHAJ

                      THE IDIOT ACTUALLY SAID IT WAS ROMNEY FAULT OBAMA RAMMED OBAMACARE THROUGH AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

                      AND I LOVE HOW STUPID HE LOOKS BECAUSE OF THAT STATEMENT, AND THAT TRUMP KILLED IT DEAD AGAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

                    6. You are having a total meltdown…and it is HILARIOUS!! Lololololol!!

                    7. Seb, just stop. No one buys your idiotic bullshit. You’re a discredited idiot.

                    8. OMFG he came back after I owned him ahahahahahah

                    9. FACT: Per Gary Johnson’s brilliant 2012 campaign ad. Obama won the nomination AND the election, AS A MODERATE ON HEALTH CARE.

                      1) OPPOSED a mandate.HUMILIATED Hillary and Edwards with a BETTER argument than ANYONE on the right. “If mandates worked, we could end homelessness by mandating everyone to buy a house. KAPOW

                      2) OPPOSED universal coverage (for now). Said we cannot afford that until AFTER we reduce health care delivery costs … WHICH THE ORIGINAL (bipartisan) OBAMACARE WOULD HAVE DONE.

                      *****HOW OBAMACARE WAS FUCKED UP BY … MITCH MCCONNELL!!!

                      Original Obamacare had a PRIVATE ALTERNATIVE to the public option, intended to win GOP votes and IGNORE his hard-left … just as Kennedy did with his tax cuts.

                      The alternative was HMO CO-OPS, as many as a competitive market could support. The model was Seattle’s Group Health Co-Op where I was a member for 16 years.
                      1) Doctors salaried employees of their patients.
                      2) Run their own hospitals.
                      3) Their own pharmacy in every clinic. pick up your initial prescription on your way out. Refills at ANY private pharmacy

                      SEE IT?
                      CHEAPER THAN ANY GOVERNMENT PLAN ON EARTH … NO REIMBURSEMENTS; ALL PREPAID … COMPETITION AND CONSUMER CHOICE (GHC HAS A LOWER-COST COMPETITOR.

                      ***ENDORSED AT DAILY KOS …AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO A GUMMINT OPTIONI Unknown to right-wing goobers, who laugh like imbeciles … but to progressives, non-profit and member controlled IS socialized medicine! (UNKNOWN to the right-wing goobers who equate Sweden with Soviet gulags)

                      So what happened? MITCH MCCONNELL. Remember his pledge … to do everything he could to hold Obama to a single term. Well, he FAILED at that, PLUS refused a deal that would have killed single-payer forever …. THUS EMPOWERING THE (FAR-LEFT) ROCKEFELLER DEMOCRATS.

                      (By comparison, Kennedy’s tax cuts were STRONGLY opposed by the AFL-CIO and congressional far-left, as “tax cuts for the rich,” of course BUT KENNEDY DID NOT NEED PROGRESSIVES … REPUBLICANS HAD NOT YET GONE BAT-SHIT CRAZY … KENNEDY’S TAX CUTS FINALLY TRIGGERED THE POSTWAR BOOM, after five back-to-back recessions, 1945-1958. Reagan’s tax cuts were identical, ALSO bipartisan, the ONLY two peacetime booms in the past 75 years.

                      So … if single-payer scares you, as it should, DO NOT BLAME DEMOCRATS.

                      BLAME MITCH MCCONNELL.
                      Yes. he’s been a fucking loser for THAT long!

                  3. If Obamacare being stronger than eve

                    So all that had to be done to make Obamacare stronger was to kill the mandate? Interesting take.

                    I actually want my fellow Americans to get medical care unlike you who would rather flush money down a toilet in the Middle East while Americans die in the streets.

                    Hey dumbass, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services alone spent over $1.5 trillion last year. Guess how much the DoD spent in comparison?

                    1. Hey dumbass, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services alone spent over $1.5 trillion last year.

                      Pulling numbers out of your pathetic ass AGAIN, Gomer?

                      The TRUTH is roughly half that. $793,741,700
                      PLUS. fuckstick, nearly half THAT ($383 B) … WAS NOT SPENDING ON HEALTH CARE, IT WAS PAYMENTS TO HEALTH CARE TRUST FUNDS.

                      PROOF for alt-right Gomers:
                      https://www.cms.gov/About-CMS/Agency-Information/PerformanceBudget/Downloads/FY2019-CJ-Final.pdf

                      Guess how much the DoD spent in comparison?

                      $716 billion (budget, $686 for defense, the rest for national security

                      So, we see
                      $686 billion for defense
                      $383 billion for health care (sneer)

                      Is that WHY you pulled Medicare/Medicaid spending out of your lyin’ ass?

                      He will now throw a typical, raging hissy fit.
                      Just check my source, and we can ALL ridicule the Gomer. 🙂

                    2. Hey fuckhead, that number is directly from the US Treasury statement for September 2019, Table Five, page 14 (it’s okay, I know you don’t like to read past page 2 of most government documents). Numbers in millions:

                      Total–Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services 111,177 …… 111,177 1,576,477 …… 1,576,477

                      Of those numbers:
                      Grants to States for Medicaid–$409 billion
                      Payments to Health Care Trust Funds–$358 billion
                      Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund–$327 billion
                      Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust
                      Fund–$452 billion

                      Per the same report, Table 5, page 13, total DoD spending was:

                      Total–Department of Defense–Military Programs 53,170 335 52,835 656,038 2,059 653,979

                      Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks
                      1,576,477,000,000 < 653,979,000,000 and thinks that spending over $1 trillion on total healthcare trust funds doesn't count as spending. That's why he's Dumbfuck Hihnsano.

                    3. ANYBODY notice that *I* provided the ONLY link.
                      The PROVEN psycho … is PISSED … STILL NO LINK!
                      🙂 🙂 🙂

                      ***AND HIS OWN WORDS PROVE HOW INSANE HE IS.

                      Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks
                      1,576,477,000,000 < 653,979,000,000 and thinks that spending over $1 trillion on total healthcare trust funds doesn't count as spending.

                      DEPOSITS TO A TRUST FUND ARE NOT HEALTH CARE SPENDING .. .. PER YOUR OWN WORDS, PSYCHO STALKER!

                      Payments to Health Care Trust Funds–$358 billionTRUST FUNDS ARE NOT PROVIDERS!

                      The Center does all the bookkeeping — Premiums, FICA revenues, Income Tax Subsidy, etc … then forwards the balance to the Trust Funds … the Trust Funds are bookkeeping entries …. NO STAFF!!! DUH

                    4. Corrections for clarity

                      HIS OWN WORDS

                      Payments to Health Care Trust Funds–$358 billion

                      TRUST FUNDS ARE NOT HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS

                    5. ANOTHER glaring fuckup

                      total DoD spending was:

                      LOOK AGAIN!!! I said BUDGET (2019).
                      You’re a year behind … BEFORE TRUMP’S LARGE SPENDING INCREASE.

                      *** P.S. LEARN WHEN THE FEDERAL FISCAL YEAR ENDS, to avoid making a public ass of yourself AGAIN.

                    6. ANYBODY notice that *I* provided the ONLY link.
                      The PROVEN psycho … is PISSED … STILL NO LINK!

                      ANYBODY notice that *I* provided a direct reference with Table and page number, and the PROVEN dumbfuck…is PISSED…CANT EVEN LOOK UP THE EASILY ACCESSIBLE REFERENCE!

                      Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks money placed under “outlays” in a government spending report isn’t government spending.

                      Dumbfuck Hihnsano doesn’t understand the difference between “budget” and “actual spending,” thinks “budget” is “actual spending.”

                      LOOK AGAIN!!! I said BUDGET (2019).
                      You’re a year behind … BEFORE TRUMP’S LARGE SPENDING INCREASE.

                      Dumbfuck Hihnsano can’t read, doesn’t realize I cited the FY19 numbers.

              2. Well for once I have to agree. Trump has been great for the whole country, Black, Brown, White, Democrat, Republican and Independent. And I certainly don’t begrudge Democrats benefitting from his presidency same as the rest of us.

                And I’m glad to see that you are starting to recover from your TDS and admit it.

              3. So Obamacare is stronger than ever

                So you’re saying that removing the mandate was all it took to make it stronger?

                1. whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

                  Obamacare is now stronger among voters …. i.e. more popular than ever …AFTER Trumpcare FAILED … AND voters saw that Republicans had NOTHING, despite nearly a decade of bluster and hot air,

                  GOP STILL has nothing.
                  ON TOP OF the MASSIVE fuckup on Obamacare https://reason.com/2020/01/28/team-trumps-final-defense-he-didnt-do-it-but-even-if-he-did-its-not-impeachable/#comment-8107461

                  If Trumpcare has passed the Democrat landslide of 2018 would have been even greater.

                  1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano admits that removing the mandate made Obamacare stronger.

                    1. MY STALKER — AGAIN A PSYCHO LIAR

                      I said (emphasis added for Trumptards)

                      Obamacare is now stronger among voters …. i.e. more popular than ever …AFTER Trumpcare FAILED … AND voters saw that Republicans had NOTHING, despite nearly a decade of bluster and hot air,

                      Psycho sees delusions of invisible words.

                      Dumbfuck Hihnsano admits that removing the mandate made Obamacare stronger

                      (sneer)

                      GOP STILL has nothing.
                      ON TOP OF the MASSIVE fuckup on Obamacare
                      If Trumpcare had passed the Democrat landslide of 2018 would have been even greater.

                      EVASION, COWARDICE

                      STILL HAVE NOT A DAMN THING …. FOR EVEN A SINGLE SEGMENT OF HEALTH CARE …. ON TOP OF MCCONNELL’S MASSIVE FUCKUP, REFUSING THE ORIGINAL BIPARTISAN DEAL ON OBAMACARE … WHERE IT WAS OBAMA PROPOSING TO KILL SINGLE-PAYER FOREVER,

                    2. Dumbfuck Hihnstalker has a bitchfit because he admitted that removing the mandate made Obamacare stronger.

            2. “Joe Biden demanding Ukraine fire a prosecutor has literally nothing to do with Hunter”

              I mean, fuck, you’re so fucking dumb that you actually posted that stupidity and thought it made sense lolololl

              1. Shorter hydrocephaloid “whether Trump had cause to investigate Biden is irrelevant”

                Ahahahahahahah ahahahah YOU ACTUALLY SAID THAT AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAH

                1. We have something called the DoJ for that. You are such a dumbass you think Trump is controlling everything in the Executive Branch!?! I think you literally have shit for brains…LITERALLY!!

                  1. Ahahahah Shorter hydrocephaloid “whether Trump had cause to investigate Biden is irrelevant”

                    Ahahahahahahah ahahahah YOU ACTUALLY SAID THAT AND THEN DOUBLED DOWN AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAH

                    YOU’RE SO STUPID AND WORTHLESS SQRLSY AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAJAJ

              2. Hunter didn’t need any help conning corrupt Ukrainians out of their money…I say good for him!

                1. Shorter hydrocephaloid “whether Trump had cause to investigate Biden is irrelevant”

                  Ahahahahahahah ahahahah YOU ACTUALLY SAID THAT AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAH

                2. Yeah, and daddy want doing any favors for them to get them to fork over millions of dollars. You’re a delusional dumbfuck.

                  Kill yourself. You don’t deserve to live.

                  1. Someone needs a tampon…super absorbent. Oh, and a monistat. 😉

                    1. Ahahaha I loved owning you SQRLSY

                3. “”Hunter didn’t need any help conning corrupt Ukrainians out of their money””

                  Corrupt Ukrainians? Really? Because that’s a reason to withhold aid. Particularly military aid.

                  1. Corrupt Ukrainians? Really? Because that’s a reason to withhold aid. Particularly military aid.

                    Umm, the corrupt government was thrown out in 2018. Trump withheld the aid to Zelensky … THE REFORMER … who won a massive landslide, 73% of the vote. Polls said his most popular campaign promise was a total housecleaning … replacing nearly everyone in a position of power, with honorable people.

                    So, you pulled another lame excuse out of your ass!

      2. Count me amongst those that would advocate that both Trump and Clinton should have/be tossed out on their ear. I don’t like corruption and lies unlike all these Trumpian buttsuckers around here.

        1. And obama? Since you were quoting GAO as an authority on illegal acts earlier.

        2. I count you among those who don’t pay their mortgage and believe in a ideology that killed over 100 million and caused many more to live in horror, Sebastian.

        3. You love all corruption as long as it comes from a progtard, like yourself. People like you are why we need McCarthyism back. You belong on a list of subversives and shouldn’t be employable. Nor should you be eligible for any kind of welfare.

          1. SAYS CLINTON SHOULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM OFFICE, BUT ….

            ALSO SAID TRUMP … which makes him a progtard to Trump’s Thought Police. (aka Trumpian buttsuckers)

  2. I doubt there are many people of lower quality than Ken Starr in American public life.

    1. Well, there is you.

      1. And everyone he idolizes like hillary.

      2. Rev. goose stepped right into that one.

        1. You could say he opened wide for it.

    2. Bill Clinton is certainly one.

      1. And his enabling wife.

  3. It is a common legal argument. When the facts are in dispute, it is the best argument to make.

    “It didn’t happen; and, even if it did, it wasn’t wrong.”

    Literally every lawyer defending any type of case, in any context, makes this argument. It would be malpractice NOT to make the argument.

    1. The only lawyers Reason can afford to hire have never stepped foot in a court room or represented an actual client.

      1. LOL

        Reason exists to serve the interests of Charles Koch, the tenth richest person on the planet. I think he could afford to hire competent lawyers if Reason needed them. Even in this terrible Drumpf economy.

      2. The only lawyers Reason can afford to hire have never stepped foot in a court room or represented an actual client.

        Where’s YOUR law degree from, Gomer? How many clients?

    2. “I didn’t do it. No one saw me do it. You can’t prove anything.”
      ~~Bart Simpson
      and
      “Say you sue me because you claim my dog bit you. Well now, this is my defense: My dog doesn’t bite. And second, in the alternative, my dog was tied up that night. And third, I don’t believe you really got bit. And fourth, I don’t have a dog.”
      ~~Racehorse Haynes

      1. “Spurious and untrue accusations that directly benefit those making them are proof.” -zombietimeshare

      2. As someone said earlier…

        “You did it, but nobody saw you do it, but we will use hearsay to prove everything.” – idiots of the left.

        1. Jesse furiously ignoring Trump blocking all members of the executive from testifying, and the fact that Trump has never, NEVER testified under oath about anything since becoming president.

    3. Exactly. A solid defense isn’t to prove innocence but to cast as much doubt as possible on every aspect of the case from the facts of what happened to whether those facts, if true, would meet legal standard. I don’t get how people think saying this is somehow proof of guilt or goal post moving.

      1. I guess we go to different courts. In my experience the accused is presumed to be guilty. Period. They may hire an attorney who gets them off, but they are still guilty. And they will be forever treated as guilty in any interaction with pigs.

        1. “In my experience the accused is presumed to be guilty. Period”

          Right but you’re consistently wrong and an imbecile.

      2. But most Americans still want Trump removed.
        But that’s per Fox (among others) and what do they know?

    4. I think it’s called something like “the doctrine of every defense”. My collage girlfriend’s dad was a lawyer, he once described it as: “My dog couldn’t have bitten you, we were out of town that day. And if he did bite you, it’s only because you hit him first. And anyway, my dog doesn’t have any teeth left. Besides, I don’t even have a dog!”

    5. It certainly seems to resonate with the public. According to the RealClearPolitics average Trump hit his all time highest approval rating of his presidency today.

      I predict in future years presidents when plotting their reelection strategy are going to ask their advisors “What do you think about trying to get the House to impeach me for investigating corruption allegations against the opposing party’s front runner?”

      And of course the answer will be “Naw, that’s too obvious, they won’t take the bait.”

  4. FFS Billy,
    It isn’t a fucking pivot to say that Trump didn’t do what is alleged, but even if he did, that wouldn’t rise to an impeachable offense.
    It is what any competent defense would argue. They didn’t change their approach, their approach has always been that both of these statements are true.
    The Dems argument:
    “He did it, and it is so bad it is impeachable”
    The defense:
    “He didn’t do it, and even if he did, it doesn’t rise to an impeachable offense”

    I mean this is beyond farce now. Seriously, people give Reason writers a lot of shit about being progressive instead of libertarian. And this is a perfect example.

    1. Billy is a typical campus Marxist, but this is actually a better example of his being a clueless ignorant inbred fuckwit.

    2. Yes, this. How could you not say exactly this? “Not a crime, and didn’t do it anyway”. Reason staff meetings must have a standing action item to poll each writer for their flavor of fuckwittery each week.

  5. Billy finally got something right. At least the headline.

    1. “It was an ironic moment for Starr: While he highlighted the indisputable fact that Trump’s impeachment has proceeded along partisan lines, Starr was a driving force behind the last impeachment”

      Poor billy, no he wasnt. He was the independent council, he didnt direct House decisions at all.

      1. Right, if he’d directed House decisions, there would have been a lot more, and more serious, charges. The House actually threw out most of the charges he referred to them.

        1. TWO Goobers say the House IGNORED their own special counsel, in the Clinton impeachment. ANOTHER lame excuse by low-IQ Trumpsters.

          1. What’s your lame excuse for why your kids hate your guts?

  6. Oh and BTW:
    Starr was a driving force behind the last impeachment

    Starr was an independent counsel whose job was to investigate certain allegations about Clinton. He didn’t lead the impeachment team. He didn’t lead the House Republicans. He did the investigation and put together the report.

    1. He actually doubled down w the assertion from yesterday. It is amazing.

    2. His job was to investigate a real estate deal. Starr chose to take it a totally different direction once the original topic proved unfruitful. You could very well say that the impeachment would not have happened with a more reserved investigator.

      1. Starr’s original job was to investigate the real estate deal. But once Reno realized that it was possible an independent counsel might actually nail her boss, she refused to appoint any more. So every time a new scandal came up that she refused to investigate, the court managing the independent counsel process handed it to the only independent counsel available, Starr.

        And THAT his how he ended up investigating multiple Clinton scandals.

    3. He didn’t lead the impeachment team

      Nobody said otherwise!

      He didn’t lead the House Republicans.

      Nobody said otherwise

      He did the investigation and put together the report.

      So … Republicans were influenced by something other than facts and evidence. I see.

  7. “””Presidential impeachments have always been partisan,” tweeted the Cato Institute’s Gene Healy.””

    Perhaps that’s why no president has yet to be removed via impeachment.

    1. The closest they came was 1868 when the Senate was packed to the gunwales with Republicans.

    2. The Nixon impeachment would have been bipartisan had not his resignation cut it short. The House voted 412-3 to accept the articles of impeachment reported by the Judiciary Committee.

      Vote on House Judiciary Report 1974

      1. Since that wasn’t an impeachment. It doesn’t count. We don’t know how the Senate would have voted.

        I’m pointing out the absence of removals of those who were impeached. No speculation, just the facts.

        1. Since that wasn’t an impeachment. It doesn’t count. We don’t know how the Senate would have voted.

          NOW YOU SAY BARRY GOLDWATER WAS A FUCKING LIAR, WHEN HE TOLD NIXON THERE WERE ENOUGH VOTES TO IMPEACH ,… ACCOMPANIED BY GOP CONGRESSIONAL LEADERSHIP.

          Do you know ANYTHING? About ANYTHING at all?

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks Nixon was impeached.

  8. Billy, Trump didn’t forget to give a reporter his pen back, and even if he did its not a impeachable offense. Is that a simple enough example that you can understand how both are true at once?

    1. Ooh, under Bill Clinton this would be the set-up to a joke:

      Clinton: Reporter’s pen is not important.

      1. Ah, c’mon!
        Clinton: It depends on the meaning of “reporter’s pen”.

        1. What the meaning of penis.

        2. “I can put a condom on this pen and stick it in my ear, does that mean I’ve had sex with it?”

  9. “Even in the Nixon near-impeachment, a majority of Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee voted against every article.”
    Ah Cato, gods love em!
    Votes on articles of impeachment for Nixon by the House Judiciary Committee
    Article I (obstruction of justice)
    Democrats: 21 yes, 0 no
    Republicans: 6 yes, 11 no

    Article II (Abuse of presidential power)
    Democrats: 21 yes, 0 no
    Republicans: 7 yes, 10 no

    Article III (contempt of Congress)
    Democrats: 19 yes, 2 no
    Republicans: 2 yes, 15 no

    Yes a majority of Republicans voted against all 3 of the articles that did pass (there were two other articles that did not pass).
    However two things:
    1) Dems were unanimous in the first 2 articles, while the Republicans were split. The 3rd article even had 2 Dems voting against.
    2) The vote was taken BEFORE “the smoking gun” tape was released.

    1. And every member of the Judiciary Committee who voted no on all three articles literally said they would vote to impeach following the reveal of the “smoking gun” tapes.

      The process started partisan, but it gained bipartisan support as new evidence was discovered. This process has never obtained any bipartisan support, not any evidence that is convincing except to people who hated Trump from the very start.

      1. Turns out it is important to have actual evidence. Huh.

        1. A stained blue dress didn’t get Clinton removed. But it did get him impeached.

      2. “The process started partisan, but it gained bipartisan support as new evidence was discovered.”

        As I recall, Nixon effectively lost his support following the Saturday Night Massacre. Firing two attorneys general will do that, usually.

        And, for what it’s worth, that episode is likely the de facto reason ( he did fire the special prosecutor) why Judge Bork never became a justice.

        1. His “ink blot” remark did him no favors.

      3. not any evidence that is convincing except to people who hated Trump from the very start.

        Hardly “A Thinking Mind” … since Trump himself sad NO amount of evidence would EVER be enough for his base … even if he shot somebody to death, in cold blood, on Fifth Avenue, with witnesses.

        If you wonder why you have ZERO credibility (outside your own cult) ,… blame Trump. It was HE who said you cannot be trusted, as seen and heard by well over 100 million witnesses. FACTS MATTER.

    2. There was NO vote that forced Nixon to quit.
      Barry Goldwater, and the entire GOP leadership went to Nixon, and said there were enough votes to IMPEACH.

      The vote was taken BEFORE “the smoking gun” tape was released.

      So ,….. you admit posting totally useless numbers … to support a totally meaningless conclusion,

      OR … did Goldwater and the GOP leadership lie?

      Nixon was forced out because he lied, which hardly bodes well for Trump.
      Impeach/Remove would be much easier — a slam dunk — by proving Trump LIED SHAMELESSLY to defend his neo-nazi and white nationalist base, who had launched mass assaults and even murder. MUCH bigger than Nixon’s lie, with evidence far more undeniable.

  10. Since the 2nd point is correct, why exactly are we here?*

    * note: rhetorical comment

  11. Reason’s gonna Huff and Po and blow the White House down.

    1. …and then post articles about situations which would get worse if the Dems replaced Trump and other Republicans.

  12. Democrats: For our closing arguments, we offer that Trump did do it, and even if he didn’t, it’s still impeachable.

  13. How stupid are Trumpsters? THIS stupid!

    “You must do what the Constitution compels you to do:

    MY Constitution says the President is elected.
    What does Cipolione’s dumbfuck version say? (lol)

    Cipollone made an appeal to the “sanctity of the voting process,” telling lawmakers that a conviction would betray the results of the 2016 election

    Was he drooling again?
    Does he “think” the Founders were bat-shit crazy … they didn’t realize they had drafted a Constitution with BOTH
    a) An elected President
    b) Who could be impeached (OVERTURNING HIS ELECTION! … TO BE REPLACED BY HIS HAND-PICKED VICE PRESIDENT!!!) 🙂 🙂

    As the Clown Car rolls on …

    After Bolton — and the soon-to-be-revealed proof that Trump lied about who launched the mass assaults in Charlottesville, to defend his neo-nazi and white nationalist base — Trump is gone. And he’ll be arrested and cuffed on his way out of the White House.

    The bad news (for Republicans) is that Pence is even crazier, but in a different way. Which means the Dems could run Elmer Fudd and win the White House,

    Left – Right = Zero

    P.S. Remember, Nixon was forced out … would have been impeached … because he was proven a liar … about a third-rate burglary.

    1. I probably should’t reply, but the thing about the burglary being third-rate doesn’t strike me as true (though I guess it’s approaching conventional wisdom in some quarters).

      The burglars wanted to bug the opposition party headquarters. That’s not third-rate.

      1. Umm, did the Founders intend that impeachment would remove an elected President, thereby overturning an election? If not, who do you think appoints our Presidents? Or is his or her name pulled out of a hat? Roll of the dice?

        But NOW, the Vice President must now be the same party of the President. How would it overturn an election if Trump’s hand-picked successor, who was elected as a successor, becomes the successor?

        Check the news. McConnell says he does not have enough votes to block witnesses … according to those left-wing fascists at … Fox News!

        https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-impeachment-witness-republican-votes-bolton-book

        Do you have anything mature to say on this?
        Or just shouting down folks who dare to disagree with you, which is authoritarian, and fascist (since you’re a right-wing authoritarian)?

        1. Do YOU have anything to say that isn’t a stream of lies and limp, recycled insults that were once rightly lobbed at you and struck a nerve as to turn you into this projecting, seething ball of Left Wing authoritarian hate?

          1. I link to proof. You screech and rant. And if you think I’m Left Wing, then you obviously believe George Will is Left Wing. 🙂
            And Chris Wallace. And Neil Cavuto. And Judge Napolitano. And ….

            Since you DARE to call it a lie, that McConnell HIMSELF said he does not have the votes to block witnesses … and you REFUSE to see yourself proven wrong at the Fox News link .,… here’s how everyone can see, with their own eyes, that you’re full of shit

            THIS link to the RESULTS of a google search, for McConnell’s widely reported announcement, just to show how dark it is, deep within that tribal cave. Plus the original Fox News link.

            As EVERYONE can see, the news has been reported EVERYWHERE … including such right-wing sites as Fox News, Fox Business, National Review, Washington Examiner, Wall Street Journal, Business Insider … nearly 2 million results! Do you know what year this is???

            Now tell us why it’s a “recycled lie” that the Founders INTENDED that an elected President could be removed from office.

            So, who’s the liar? …. and limp?

            (Yeah, do more screeching)

            1. I like watching you cry so much about never winning.

              1. (sneer)

                1. And I like watching you sneer about losing so much too.

                  1. MOAR whiney pussy???
                    Here AGAIN is the proof, psycho
                    (smirk)

            2. Hihn, you belong in forced hospice. You are a malignant piece of cuntshit. The kid of thing scraped off Hillary’s nether regions. And the funny thing is, that those of,us you insult at the real libertarians, and you are an insane progressive totalitarian.

              Nothing you say can ever change that. You have made libertarianism worse, and you deserve to die a slow painful death. Alone, discredited, and unloved.

              1. Libertarians NEVER launch aggression, sick-fuck Goober

                1. Right, but we’re talking about you, not libertarians SQRLSY

                  1. Hey dumbfuck. Here’s MY libertarian credentials.
                    ****WHAT HAVE YOU EVER DONE, PUNK?***

                    Seattle Times … media review as LIBERTARIAN candidate for WA State Insurance Commissioner. (smirk>

                    Theme: Freedom works!

                    Deregulate. Open your Yellow Pages. Compare the number of health insurers with the number of auto and home insurers. Then ask yourself which insurance is the most highly regulated – but offers the fewest choices, with out-of-control prices. As you can see, over-regulation is hazardous to your health.

                    There are two prices involved: drugs and insurance. Deregulating health insurance will greatly increase the number of insured families. But drug prices would be beyond my control, and another candidate seems to agree. He would form nongovernmental buying co-ops. Great idea, but you don’t have to elect him to get it

                    Insurers have legitimate concerns regarding fraudulent health histories from applicants. But insurance applicants can now be forced to choose between living and lying when new jobs require them to change carriers. Deregulate for portable coverage.

                    (part of an effort which achieved Major Party Status that year)

                    Translation: I’ve ACHIEVED a lot more than a babbling cyber-bully.

                    xoxoxoxo
                    The libertariaThe Socialist who just humiliated your sorry ass.

                    (and walks away laughing hysterically)

                    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano cites a political race from 20 years ago that he didn’t win as an achievement.

                    2. Well he ran as a libertarian, so the conclusion was foregone.

                      What have you done?

                      I was a republican pco for 8 years. Initially as part of Ron Paul’s liberty movement that tried to place enough people into R party leadership to help Paul get the nomination.

                    3. Well he ran as a libertarian, so the conclusion was foregone.

                      Great, he’s the libertarian version of Beto.

                      What have you done?

                      Not declared bankruptcy and not lost an election while proclaiming that loss to be an achievement.

                    4. HOW FUCKING STUPID ARE THEY

                      Dumbfuck Hihnsano cites a political race from 20 years ago that he didn’t win as an achievement.No, goober, to PROVE him full of shit on me being libertarian.

                      YOU TWO HAVE ACHIEVED EVEN LESS! 🙂

                    5. YOU TWO HAVE ACHIEVED EVEN LESS!

                      No, my kids actually like me. And I’ve never declared bankruptcy.

                    6. Dumbfuck Hihnsano is assmad that I owned him like Kunta Kinte on government healthcare spending, and that both my family and Trump’s family likes me better than his does.

                    7. No, it was NOT health care that was jammed up your ass here. as anyone can see

                    8. ******WE’RE ALL STILL WAITING FOR WHAT YOU’VE DONE FOR LIBERTY, YOU NASTY, HATE-SPEWING AUTHORITARIAN.

                      KEEP RUNNING AWAY, COWARD.

                    9. Dumbfuck Hihnsano remains assmad that his greatest achievement in life is being a loser, and that I owned him like Kunta Kinte with actual government figures on healthcare spending cited directly from the Treasury’s own monthly statements.

                  2. Great, he’s the libertarian version of Beto.

                    FUCKING PSYCHO!
                    HERE AGAIN IS MY PLATFORM, THAT YOU CLAIM TO HAVE READ

                    Theme: Freedom works!

                    Deregulate. Open your Yellow Pages. Compare the number of health insurers with the number of auto and home insurers. Then ask yourself which insurance is the most highly regulated – but offers the fewest choices, with out-of-control prices. As you can see, over-regulation is hazardous to your health.

                    There are two prices involved: drugs and insurance. Deregulating health insurance will greatly increase the number of insured families. But drug prices would be beyond my control, and another candidate seems to agree. He would form nongovernmental buying co-ops. Great idea, but you don’t have to elect him to get it

                    Insurers have legitimate concerns regarding fraudulent health histories from applicants. But insurance applicants can now be forced to choose between living and lying when new jobs require them to change carriers. Deregulate for portable coverage.****AGAIN: WHAT HAVE YOU EVER DONE, EXCEPT LIE AND BULLY

                    And PROVEN a psycho liar here,

                    https://reason.com/2020/01/28/team-trumps-final-defense-he-didnt-do-it-but-even-if-he-did-its-not-impeachable/#comment-8107558

                    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano having a bitchfit because the only achievement he’s ever had in life is losing an election.

                    2. ….. AS A LIBERTARIAN … WHICH HELPED THE LP WIN MAJOR PARTY STATUS IN WASHINGTON STATE … AND AGAIN PROVES YOU FULL OF SHIT … SICK FUCK.

                      *****WHAT HAVE YOU EVER DONE FOR LIBERTY … AND WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER?

                      (I ACTUALLY WAS ELECTED TWICE, IN TWO DIFFERENT STATES, WON A TWO-YEAR TAX REVOLT (WHICH FORCED A 17% CUT IN SCHOOL BOARD SPENDING) …. BUT NOT NONE OF THAT WAS PARTISAN)

                      *****YOUR TURN, STALKING BULLY.

                    3. Dumbfuck Hihnsano admits the greatest achievement of his life was losing an election.

                      Sad!

                  3. How many readers are as fucking stupid at reading what I said … as the guy who has NO achievements in life, STILL FAILING to tell us what HE has done to advance liberty?

                    STILL WAITING. (sneer)

        2. “Do you have anything mature to say on this?”

          Fuck off and die, Hihn. That’s exactly the level of maturity you deserve.

        3. Exactly, the development of running as a ticket did undermine the power of impeachment…and the fact Johnson didn’t have a VP and Nixon’s VP was handpicked by Republicans in Congress made their respective impeachments more impactful. Pence is my nightmare president on with respect to policies but Trump is so incompetent and corrupt that I really believe it is more important for my policy preferences to take a backseat to getting a competent person in the White House. Btw, Trump’s corruption worked in my favor because the Kushners are heavily invested in the ACA Exchanges so Trump has made Obamacare stronger to help out the Kushner family.

          1. Sure SQRLSY

          2. “…Btw, Trump’s corruption worked in my favor because the Kushners are heavily invested in the ACA Exchanges so Trump has made Obamacare stronger to help out the Kushner family…”

            Your bullshit might work in your favor if you had any cites for that bullshit. They seem to be missing, so I’m calling bullshit, bullshitter.

            1. Google Oscar Health. Btw, Josh Kushner is a billionaire in his own right thanks to Mark Zuckerberg which works to Trump’s advantage.

              1. You can buy Oscar health plans off the exchanges, and in fact, it usually makes sense to do so.

                Full disclosure: I am a satisfied customer of Oscar health plans.

                1. Oscar Health was founded by Josh Kushner specifically to take advantage of the ACA subsidies. Do you really think Trump ever intended to repeal Obamacare??

                  1. I think you lost the argument and got crushed, and are desperate to avoid admitting it.

        4. I have plenty of mature thing to say about it, but not to an imbecile and fascist like you.

          1. Libertarians are the opposite of fascists,
            Authoritarians, like you, are the very soul of fascism.

            1. Sure SQRLSY

    2. Fuck both political parties. I didn’t vote for Trump in 16, and I’m not going to vote for him this fall. But this whole circus is very worrisome, because the shit they are alleging that Trump did nearly every President has done. Have the Democrats even laid out one statute or law that Trump broke? This will set a precedent, and I’m not looking forward to impeachment trials every time there is a divided government – regardless of its a Democrat or Republican – when the President didn’t break any actual laws. It’s bad for business.

      1. Fuck both political parties.

        They’re both fucking themselves to death! Time for what Thomas Jefferson wanted … a Constitutional Convention (every 20 years).

        1. OK SQRLSY

          1. Wrong again! (lol)
            Here’s Jefferson’s letter to Madison, explaining WHY every generation should create its own Constitution.

            https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-12-02-0248

            That’s the difference between Consent of The Governed, and Consent of the Dead.

            He was in France during the Constitutional Convention, sent a lengthy letter to Madison ,… having greatly expanded the “consent of the governed” principle. Short version.

            Earth belongs to the living. NO generation has ANY right to bind ANY future generation … on anything … using two examples, debt and a government.

            So … where in HELL do you have ANY right to make ANY commitments on ANYONE, in ANY future generation … without their vote? Is the question difficult to understand?

            THAT is a critical boundary, between libertarians and authoritarians. Why not join us, on the freedom train. Your own descendants will profit IMMEDIATELY.

            Or remain a looter. Your choice.

            1. Sure SQRLSY.

              Cry more about me knowing it’s you SQRLSY.

            2. Go away you evil troll.

              1. TWO infantile goobers pissed at PROOF.

                DOCUMENTING Jefferson’s word is “trolling.”
                WHINING like a pussy is … Trumpian

                Crazy

            3. No wonder Dumbfuck Hihnsano hates the right to keep and bear arms.

              1. MOAR BULLSHIT FROM THE SICKEST FUCK ON THE BOARD.
                No wonder Dumbfuck Hihnsano hates the right to keep and bear arms.STALK … ATTACK … LIE … LOSE

                STALK … ATTACK … LIE … LOSE

                STALK … ATTACK … LIE … LOSE

                STALK … ATTACK … LIE … LOSE

              2. Dumbfuck Hihnsano lies that he hates the right to keep and bear arms.

                Dumbfuck Hihnsano is an expert on losers, because his life’s greatest achievement was losing an election.

      1. ANOTHER CRAZY TRUMPTARD CLAIMS THE FOUNDERS DID NOT INTEND THAT IMPEACHMENT REMOVE AN ELECTED PRESIDENT.

        WHY DOES THE CONSTITUTION SAY SO, LOSER??

  14. Binion’s summary of POTUS Trump’s defense really leaves out a lot. But whatever. Emblematic of the new Unreason, I guess.

    Here we are. The arguments are done. Now the questions will begin and go on for two days. Then the Senate will need to decide if they need witnesses or not. We’ll see. If we get to calling witnesses, this will set the standard for ugly and bitter. I can see witnesses stretching for months. It will be a seminal event in US history. POTUS Trump will be acquitted, but it will come at great cost to the Republic going forward. Even worse: Removing POTUS Trump would have an infinitely higher cost to the Republic. We did this to ourselves.

    The best outcome I see. Two days of questions. A day of deliberations, with a weekend to think about it. Another day to debate calling witnesses. Then vote to decline witnesses, and vote for acquittal. Life goes on. We the People settle this problem the old-fashioned away – the ballot box – in November 2020.

    Former VP Biden is done. It is clear that Burisma had their fingers in a lot of political pies. But I don’t think he walks away without a lot more scrutiny in the future. Prosecution? No. My attitude, please keep going, and get 25% of that Team D primary vote.

    Hunter Biden? Oh, I think he has a lot of problems already. Just how far do you think a couple mil goes when the government starts investigating you? Heck, General Flynn lost his home because of the government coming after him.

    I’d start thinking about how you win the Congress in a decisive manner this November. And the state races are huge. You get to draw district lines for the next decade.

    1. You need to catch up!

      Then the Senate will need to decide if they need witnesses or not. We’ll see

      Well before you typed that, McConnell announced that he does not have enough votes to block witnesses. That means the coverup you were hoping for has ended. (For now. The vote on that is at the end of the week, after both sides get to ask questions.)

      Sorry.

      1. Subpoena the three B’s – Bolton, Biden, Sr., and Biden, Jr.

        1. Biden’s are irrelevant … as crazy as Birtherism. But you’d never know that.

          1. I know I’m going to regret this but why are the people Trump wanted to investigate, irrelevant? That isn’t even more illogical then your normal rant filled drivel. I know I’m bullying you now. For fuck sake, that is a stupid comment even by your low standards.

            1. I know I’m going to regret this but why are the people Trump wanted to investigate, irrelevant

              Irrelevant to the issue.

              1. So relevant, but you hate it so you lie about it lololol

                Never change SQRLSY

                1. PROOF?????
                  (smirk)

              2. The issue being that fascists like you want to take control of the government and impose single party rule by any means. That issue.

              3. No, it isn’t the issue is was Trump asking for an investigation of Hunter Biden a correct use of power, ergo, having Hunter and Joe Biden (who bragged about getting a prosecutor who had been investigating his son’s company) testify is the most important aspect of the investigation. Was there adequate evidence to investigate them? If yes, the entire Democrats’ case falls apart. Gee, even for you that is completely ignoring realty, to deny the pertinence of this aspect of the impeachment.

                1. The Democrats whole case is Trump abused his power by asking for an investigation of Hunter Biden, it is actually one of the fucking articles of impeachment. How do you logically conclude the Bidens’ testimony is irrelevant, considering the whole case hinges on rather or not Trump had adequate reason to ask for an investigation? Fuck. That is way beyond stupid even for your low level of discourse.

                  1. Trump abused his power by tying the release of funds to the investigation. That is the point. You are missing it.

            2. They’re irrelevant because Trump is guilty, obviously. And thus any witness which might tend to show him innocent MUST be irrelevant.

              Basically, the Democrats are claiming the cop pulled the car over for the purposes of harassment, and then arguing that the driver’s blood alcohol level should be inadmissible.

              1. You pathetic piece of shit.

                Trump is also the one .,.. a PROVEN LIAR ABOUT CHARLIOTTESVILE … who lied to defend his neo-nazi and white-nationalist base.

                Is NOTHING too VILE for you?

        2. And throw in Liz Cheney that got a made up job in the State department when her father was VP and Kushner’s sister who is on video trading on her brother’s name hawking EB-5 visas in China.

          1. Which was nothing to do with Trump but keep grasping at stupid straws.

            1. Joe Biden demanding Ukraine fire a prosecutor has literally nothing to do with Hunter but you seem interested in it. If nepotism or trading on a family member’s position in the Executive Branch is an issue then you should want Liz Cheney and Kushner’s sister called. What were Liz Cheney’s qualifications other than having a fancy degree like Hunter??

              1. “Joe Biden demanding Ukraine fire a prosecutor has literally nothing to do with Hunter”

                Ahahahahahahahhawut? Ahahahahahahahah are you actually retarded? Lololol the fucking idiot actually said that ahahahahahahahahahahj

                1. There was no investigation of Hunter, or Barisma.

                  Firing the prosecutor was ONE of the requirements for us to guarantee a loan by Ukraine, as also demanded by the UK. the International Monetary Fund and most of Europe. It was the ONLY condition the corrupt President of Ukraine refused .. until he was told he had no choice.

                  Would YOU cosign a massive loan, to one of the most corrupt borrowers on earth, risking American taxpayers?

                  THAT head of Ukraine was SO fucking corrupt that he was defeated, in a landslide by Zelensky — A COMEDIAN WITH NO PRIOR EXPERIENCE IN GOVERNMENT. His major campaign promise was to replace EVERY position of power, with honorable people.

                  Lololol the fucking idiot actually said that ahahahahahahahahaha

                  Not everyone is so ignorant and brainwashed as you.

                  1. Sure Sebastian.

                    1. I thought I was “Tony”??

                    2. Sure SQRLSY.

                    3. “Sebastian Cremmington
                      January.28.2020 at 9:40 pm
                      I thought I was “Tony”??”

                      You always stupidly try to act like you having multiple accounts is some grand impossibility Hihn.

                      It’s because you’re laughably stupid, and when you forward that idea, EVERYONE laughs at how ignorant you sound.

                  2. Because Biden’s job is to do the bidding of foreign financial institutions!

                    1. HOW crazy is NOYB2?

                      Because Biden’s job is to do the bidding of foreign financial institutions!

                      WHEN THE LENDER DEMANDS THAT WE MUST GUARANTEE THE LOAN TO UKRAINE … NOYB2 IS THE ONE WHO SAYS WE SHOULD RISK TAXPAYER DOLLARS … WITH NO CONDITIONS … TO THE WORST CREDIT RATING ON EARTH.

                      ***Trumptards are PRECISELY that crazy!

                  3. False. Just see john Solomons reporting. It’s been linked in threads numerous times.

                    1. Where’s YOUR link, pathetic psycho?

          2. Oh, I see, because it’s all irrelevant.

            The Bidens are the putative victims of Trump’s vindictive attempt at investigation. Shouldn’t the Bidens, like the victims they are, testify to confirm that the suspicions against them are baseless?

            1. I wouldn’t care if they testify but I think it is a bad precedent to set to predicate investigations on blog posts by political operatives of one’s political opponents. So if the Daily Kos posts something negative about Ivanka should that be the grounds for an investigation??

              1. I mean the Bidens showing by their testimony that their behavior was absolutely impeccable and not cause for suspicion. What a blow against Trump that would be!

                1. You seem totally ignorant of how criminal justice works, in this, the greatest nation on earth.

                  NOBODY has to prove their innocence . EVER.
                  It’s Trump’s job to prove them guilty. Which he has FAILED, totally.

                  1. Ahahaha you’re such a fucking aspie that you don’t get what is happening to you hahahaahhaah
                    That is SOOOO FABULOUS AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHJA

              2. Good thing that wasn’t what the investigation was predicted upon. So your objection is moot.

                Of course, you’re the idiot that said Bideninterfering in an investigation of his son wasn’t relevant. Lolololol.

                1. Of course, you’re the idiot that said Bideninterfering in an investigation of his son wasn’t relevant. Lolololol.

                  No, he said you’re full of shit that Biden Sr did do, since THERE WAS NO INVESTIGATION.. 🙂 🙂

                  Did you also swallow the psycho bullshit about Crowdstrike?
                  Birtherism?

                  1. OK SQRLSY

                    1. STOP YOUR CHILDISH NAME-CALLING.
                      SHOW SOME PROOF, he-who-is-proud-to-be-a-buttplug.

          3. Liz Cheney got a job in the State Department. Not from a corrupt foreign company that was trying to influence US politics.

            Kushner’s sister is trading on the Kushner name………..so? They’re allowed to trade on their own names.

        3. Really, the Bidens are so pure, the *Democrats* should be calling them to show how baseless the suspicions against them actually are, thus confirming the argument that investigating corruption was a mere pretext for a dark Trumpian agenda.

          1. One more time. I’ll dumb it down for ya.

            If I accuse you of raping my 12-year-old niece, are you obliged to prove me wrong? Or am I obliged to prove that you did?

            NOW do you “get it?”

            1. It won’t be less dumb just because you repeat it SQRLSY

            2. Or suppose you accuse Trump of trying to frame you for being too intimate with chickens.

              Trump replies that he wasn’t framing you, that you actually *were* intimate with the chickens.

              In this scenario, you’re the accuser, and Trump is the defendant, since you’ve portrayed the chicken accusations as part of a frame-up by Trump.

              So by submitting the photos of you and the chickens, Trump isn’t claiming you have to prove your innocence, he’s poking holes in the accuser’s (your) case.

              1. YOU LOSE AGAIN, DUMBASS.
                WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS OF JOE BIDEN DOING WHAT TRUMP CLAIMED? (smirk)

                AND HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU TRUMPTARDS FUCK UP ON A SINGLE PAGE.

                DID I “TRIGGER” EDDY AGAIN? HURT THE PRECIOUS SNOWFLAKE? WILL HE GO EVEN CRAZIER???

                1. There’s a video, Michael. It’s been readily available in all media for months.

                  There were flashes while he was laughing about how he’d extorted Ukraine into compliance, so I’m sure that photos can be found.

                  Poor Michael, drifting ever further from reality.

                  1. Biden brags about carrying out the stated policy goals of the US, with the support of the EU and IMF, you mean. Face it, the reason every reporter has given up on trying to connect The firing of Shokin to the Bidens is because they are not connected. Crowdstrike conspiracy is even dumber than the biden one. You conspiratarians need to join the rest of us in the real world.

            3. If you are being investigated for abusing power for investigating if he raped a 12 yo, then your testimony is more than pertinent. It goes to the root of the abuse of power charge.

              1. I mean I think you fully know this but are denying it because you are a partisan hack.

                1. BTW before you ridicule the idea of being partisan because you claim to hate both Republicans and Democrats equally, you don’t have to belong to either party to be a partisan, you just have to have an ideology that you blindly adhere to, ergo you can be a partisan anarchist or libertarian just as easily as being a partisan Republican or democrat. Also, you are definitely not a libertarian despite your protest to the contrary.

                  1. “Also, you are definitely not a libertarian despite your protest to the contrary.”

                    Says the guy who support an all powerful executive.

                    1. Says the guy who supports a corrupt republic.

                  2. Also, you are definitely not a libertarian despite your protest to the contrary.

                    PROVED YOU A LYING SACK OF SHIT HERE
                    https://reason.com/2020/01/28/team-trumps-final-defense-he-didnt-do-it-but-even-if-he-did-its-not-impeachable/#comment-8106579

                    …..

                    1. (walks away laughing at the jackass righty)

    2. Not good enough. The Bidens should be in prison. If they don’t, the rule of law is dead.

      1. Jesus, take a Motrin!!

      2. The rule of law was dead when they let HiLIARy walk away for exposing national secrets to the most novice of hackers.
        While so many had gone to jail for far less.

        1. The rule of law was dead when they let HiLIARy walk away for exposing national secrets to the most novice of hackers.

          Any other psychos too fucking stupid to know that the target of a hacker is a …. VICTIM OF A CRIME????

          PLUS, that never happened!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano apparently thinks Podesta and the DNC emails are the same as Hillary’s unauthorized private email server.

            1. PRECISELY BACKWARDS … AGAIN!

              Dumbfuck Hihnsano apparently thinks Podesta and the DNC emails are the same as Hillary’s unauthorized private email server.

              THIS IS WHAT YOUR FELLOW DUMBASS FACSIST SAID

              The rule of law was dead when they let HiLIARy walk away for exposing national secrets to the most novice of hackers.

              I EVEN USED BOLDFACE FOR YOU RETARDS.

              1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano admits that he can’t differentiate between Podesta falling for a basic bitch phishing email and Hillary keeping an unauthorized email server.

                That’s what makes him Dumbfuck Hihnsano.

                1. THIS IS WHAT YOUR FELLOW DUMBASS FACSIST SAID

                  The rule of law was dead when they let HiLIARy walk away for exposing national secrets to the most novice of hackers.

                  I EVEN USED BOLDFACE FOR YOU RETARDS.

                2. Dumbfuck Hihnsano doesn’t realize that Hillary’s email server was hackable.

                  1. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH
                    THE CRIME IS BY THE HACKERS. (snort)

        2. retiredfire, you must be chomping at the bit for indvidual-1 to finally be brought to justice then?

          1. Fuckin’ LOL at you still being salty for Mueller Claus leaving you that pile of coal.

  15. The Roman Senate really fucked up when they voted Caesar an outlaw.
    Forced his hand.
    Food for thought, Cato.

    1. Cicero and Cato sided with Pompey.

      1. And drove the vote outlawing Caesar through.
        Cicero was an intelligent fool.
        Cato was a stuck up moron.

        1. Cato was what goofs like chemjeff envision when they talk about “principles”–an “honorable loser” who defended a corrupt system from a highly ambitious figure, while the guy who beat him left an actual legacy that’s lasted for over 2000 years.

          1. So you proudly support imperialism over a republic? Ok then. Why are you hanging around a libertarian site?

            1. So you proudly support a corrupt republic? Ok then. Why are you hanging around a libertarian site?

  16. That’s a classic tactic that even laypeople know.
    1: This didn’t happen
    2: Even if it did, this is still wrong

    It’s a very basic layers of defense tactic. Even if someone disagrees with one of your lines of logic, they can be convinced by the other. How to argue 101.

    1. The prosecutors are trying to forge links in a chain. If one link breaks the whole thing fails. But if the defense has the chance to attack *two* vulnerable links, why not? Why focus just on one vulnerable link when there’s another link which can just as easily be broken.

      They just need to break one, but they can attack in two places.

      1. I’m pretty sure the writers here supporting impeachment would be fine if the defense would use this tactic for them should they ever be accused of something.

        Just guessing and saying.

        I find it amazing that they’re focusing on Trump’s defense tactics as if he’s guilty. I don’t get it.

        1. They’re for open borders and letting China do whatever it wants, just like their corporate masters tell them to believe. So of course they’re acting as if he’s guilty. They’re no less “by any means necessary” than the Democrats are, and they have no less contempt for the rule of law and this country than the Democrats do, because they’re globalists who think that reducing America in power and scope will somehow lead to a freer world.

          They’re idiots, basically…bought and paid for by a billionaire gadfly who is also clueless about how anything outside his narrow range of expertise works.

          1. Those positions are less libertarian (classical liberal) and more anarchy and progressive.

            There used to be a prevailing belief that keeping China open for trade would modernize them along Western lines not unlike Japan.

            But China has other plans and are beat to their own drum. So I don’t think that outlook is practical anymore.

            Trump is calling their bluff. See where it goes. Everyone knows they don’t play by the rules. I still think America has the upper hand here.

            That why we (North America) we walk around egg shells around China despite their terrible human rights abuse records (and abhorrent treatment of animals) doesn’t say much about our principles.

            Like we do with Saudi Arabia.

            1. walk on egg shells.

        2. Have you been reading their articles? The entire writing staff seems convinced that Trump is 100% guilty. The articles haven’t even tried to balance that out.

          I want the old Reason back. The one that wrote the headline “Of all the things to impeach Trump for, they chose this?” That summed up the thoughts of the readership and country perfectly. If Trump is so bad, why are you charging him over something arguably legal? If he’s not, then why are you trying so hard to remove him?

          1. That summed up the thoughts of the readership and country perfectly.

            “The country” (most voters) want Trump removed. And over 60% believe he committed a crime.

            (He’s also a lying sack of shit on who initiated the mass assaults in Charlottesville. But Trumptards REFUSE to think, and screech “FAKE NEWS” — or the equivalent, on EVERYTHING. Subservient puppets.)

  17. “He Didn’t Do It, but Even If He Did, It’s Not Impeachable”

    2nd best defense ever

  18. Trump should just use the Chewbacca defense, undefeatable.

  19. Given the weakness of the evidence and lack of a prosecutable crime, that defense is more than sufficient. The democrats have to prove both aspects are true and egregious enough to warrant removal less than a year before the election.
    I’ve been open to the interpretation that Trump was strong-arming or at least nudging Ukraine to investigate. I’ve been open to the idea that he continued to push for this through back channels like Giuliani. Here’s the issue. The phone record does not make a strong case for this. Shiff asserts it is all about “digging up dirt on Biden.” The call shows his interest was in Cloudstrike and finding out what was going on with the Bidens since it was in the news from Biden’s own mouth. That call is all we have so far that isn’t secondhand hearsay at best. We’ve heard plenty of conjecture from bureaucrats who have been openly hostile to the president. There has been a lot of talk of negotiations with qpq on a meeting and aid being contingent upon announcement and commencement of an investigation into Biden. There hasn’t been anyone credible presenting that case for when, how, and through whom it was communicated. To top it all off, one has to assume Biden is inocent of corruption (despite some very eyebrow raising news) and Trump pressured Ukraine to basically beat Biden for him. It asserts facts contrary to the pattern of evidence and assumes a state of mind in Trump that isn’t proven through the testimony of anyone who had even tangential contact with him on this matter. Lastly, obstruction of Congress is not a thing when a member of the House believes he can make anyone in the administration testify to him under oath.
    In short, the impeachment is bullshit. It is blatant bullshit. Even if all of their accusations are true, it still doesn’t rise to the level of corrupt behaviour we already know about regarding many Democrats in Ukraine. I swear the dems shot themselves in the foot multiple times and are going on the attack to distract from their bleeding

    1. Yes… very comforting. Dear Leader doesn’t really have the mental capacity to ascertain whether what he is doing is corrupt (since he’s innately corrupt) so [throws up hands] how can it be a crime if he Can’t understand that asking for a foreign government to investigate your political opponent is a text book example of corruption. Fucking brilliant. You TrumpianS would be calling for Obama’s execution if he did something similar. Man, partisanship fills your head with worms.

      1. Ahahaha look it’s the idiot who can’t pay his mortgage but think we should care about anything he says.

        Don’t you have 100 million people to liquidate again?

        1. I’ll try to keep the casualties way below what you and your buttfucker friends in the military caused.in Iraq, drone warrior.

          1. Considering your past history of killing and genocide, well over 100 million, you’ll fail again.

            Like you did paying your mortgage.

          2. And he’s against the troops. He should be put to death. Just like every progtard.

            1. STOP COMMENTING WHILE YOU ARE ON YOUR PERIOD!!

              1. Sure Hihn.

            2. Another violent fantasy from the fascists supporting Trump.

              1. Said the guy who clapped along to Arthur L. Hicklib’s eliminationist rhetoric.

      1. THE CRAZIEST BULLSHIT IN AMERICAN HISTORY! … FROM THE PSYCHO CONSPIRACY NUT THAT STILL BELEEBS HIS OWN INSANITY, BITHERISM.

  20. Binion is such an idiot he believes defense attornies jobs are to prove their clients innocence rather than cast doubt on the prosecution case.

  21. At a horror movie blog, Boston MA posters were complaining that the nostalgia channel shows were being pre-empted by a circus.

    I posted well, it could be worse, instead of a circus, they could be preempted by the impeachment hearings.

    I was informed that was what they were calling “the circus”.

  22. What will happen to the economy if Trump is impeached?

    1. HAHA. it’s worse than Obama’s GDP growth! (Obama’s last 3 years, vs Trump’s last three years)

      PLUS. Trump promised to pay off the entire federal debt in 8 years … BUT has already added more new 8-year debt (CBO forecast) than Obama added AFTER 8 years!! AND Obama had inherited the third-worst economy since WWII … but handed Trump the longest expansion EVER for an incoming President. That’s a MASSIVE FAIL.

      Trump ridiculed Obama’s improved unemployment rate, saying it was caused by low Labor Participation (people giving up on finding a job and leaving the labor force.). True. But under Trump, NO meaningful improvement in labor participation, so HIS unemployment is just as bogus as Obama’s. Reality vs hero worship.

      It was IMPOSSIBLE for Trump’s tax cuts to restore our industrial base, for two reasons,
      1) Total ignorance of tax codes by our trade competitors; (we’re still VERY punitive, by comparison)
      2) The ONLY peacetime booms since WWII, followed IDENTICAL tax cuts by both Reagan and Kennedy … NOT tilted to the rich … “across the board, top to bottom, personal and corporate.” He’s also ignorant of that.

      And, of course, Trump campaigned on a 60% tax cut for himself, and a small share of the 1%. He’d have been a billionaire paying a top tax rate of …. 15%. What’s your marginal tax rate, sucker?

      Anything else?

      1. Sure Sebastian.

        1. That commenter is 100% correct—Trump has failed to deliver over 3% GDP growth. Sorry, you have to vote for Biden. 😉

          1. You should be put to death for your Marxism.

            1. The fact no other “libertarian” around here will call you out is pretty telling. Trumpians are not libertarians. You are a coward with violent fantasies. Another brown shirt / red hat goon. Who’s gonna put anyone to death? Not you, your rascal isn’t even the fast model.

          2. Sure Hihn.

            1. ANOTHER cowardly evasion!
              Hey ignorant asshole. Compare US tax code with Canada’s

              CORPORATE INCOME TAX
              US — 21% Large corporations ONLY (provide best wages/benefits)
              CA – 15% ALL corporations

              TAX ON DIVIDENDS
              US — “preferred rate” DOUBLE TAXATION OF CORP PROFITS
              CA — ZERO

              CAPITAL GAINS
              US — Higher rate, NO indexing for inflation
              CA — Lower rate, indexed

              WRITE-OFF OF FACTORY EQUIPMENT PUTCHASES
              US – 8 years
              CA – 5 years,

              PLUS, THE ONLY PEACETIME BOOMS IN THE PAST 75 YEARS FOLLOWED IDENTICAL TAX CUTS BY KENNEDY AND REAGAN — “Across the board, top to bottom, personal and corporate.”

              Trump’s tax cuts — tilted to corps and the rich FAILED.
              Bush2’s tax cuts — titled HEAVILY to the middle-class FAILED.

              = Supply-side and demand-side BOTH fail. COMMON SENSE
              A growing economy is like a 3-legged stool — consumers, employers and investors. If EITHER leg lacks confidence, the stool falls over,

              THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. GOOBERS. *THINK*
              A BOOMING ECONOMY REQUIRES ALL THREE
              1) Consumers buying more
              2) Employers hiring more
              3) Investors investing more.

              Oh yeah, fucking Trump campaigned on a 60% tax cut for himself and a few cronies … BILLIONAIRE tax cuts from 39.5% to 15%. What’s YOUR income tax rate, suckers?
              (smirk)

              ***Buttplug will now make ANOTHER mindless reply, IGNORING EVERYTHING, the loser.

  23. Ukraine says there was no QPQ. No one actually witnessed QPQ for corrupt intent. The transcript of the conversation all but exonerated Trump. Mueller did not charge Trump with obstruction of collusion after a 2 year probe. On top of that, the investigative body lied to obtain surveillance.

    There is no conceivable scenario that this case would have ever reach trial. Only in some kangaroo campus rape court than the “prosecution” try a defendant despite the victim denying wrongdoing as they fabricate new charges that concern the safety of women or some other BS.

    So what if impeachment is a political process? So what? Why should libertarians (of ALL people) excuse the government from not observing due process, even if they don’t have to? Obstruction of justice and QPQ are already crimes, they’re not “non crimes that are still impeachable”.

    1. Ukraine says there was no QPQ.

      Liars with programmed minds, reciting memorized soundbites.

      1. Yes, you do Sebastian.

      2. “Liars with programmed minds, reciting memorized soundbites”

        AHAHAHAHAH HE ACTUALLY WENT WITH “THE VICTIM IS LYING ABOUT NOT BEING A VICTIM”

        AHAHAHAHAHAHAH GOD YOU KNOW HE KNOWS HE’S WRONG AND HATES IT SO MUCH AHAHAHAHAHA

        1. Zelensky said Trump was shameful to treat an ally that way.
          Not knowing that Trump FUCKS EVERY ALLY … while praising his fellwo authoritarian leaders in Russia, North Korea, China and Saudi Arabia.

    2. . Mueller did not charge Trump with obstruction of collusion after a 2 year probe.

      HIS REPORT STATED, EXPLICITLY, THAT THERE WAS NO ATTEMPT TO PROVE COLLUSION ,… AND DOCUMENTED TEN INSTANCES OF OBSTRUCTION.

      We DO have proof that Don Jr knowingly conspired with the Russian government, to get dirt on Hillary. The idiot posted the emails on his Twitter feed!

      1. So when you say “HIS REPORT STATED, EXPLICITLY, THAT THERE WAS NO ATTEMPT TO PROVE COLLUSION ,” what you mean is that XM was correct when he said “Mueller did not charge Trump with obstruction or collusion after a 2 year probe.” and you hate it but can’t refute it.

        Got it SQRLSY

          1. So is SQRLSY, that’s the point.

        1. All caps wasn’t loud enough. (sigh) So, I’ll put in in bold this time.

          AND DOCUMENTED TEN INSTANCES OF OBSTRUCTION.

          Umm, Mueller also did not charge Trump with raping children, slaughtering kittens and running naked down Pennsylvania avenue … because he never investigated that either,

          And we have Trump’s PROVEN lie about Charlottesville, to defend your fellow nazis and racists from multiple vicious assaults.

          1. Sure SQRLSY

        2. whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

          So when you say “HIS REPORT STATED, EXPLICITLY, THAT THERE WAS NO ATTEMPT TO PROVE COLLUSION ,” what you mean is that XM was correct when he said “Mueller did not charge Trump with obstruction or collusion after a 2 year probe.” and you hate it but can’t refute it.

          XM treated it as a failure,
          HOW CAN I HATE MY OWN WORDS, YOU CRAZED ASSHOLE?

      2. Um no, he listed a bunch of instances that concerned him, and said “I can’t fully exonerate him”. Which is not the job of the prosecutor. If the prosecution has evidence that’s not strong enough to convict and they decline to charge the defendant, viola, he’s free. Kobe Bryant was a free man because his victim declined to testify and the available evidence (like Bryant’s shirt with blood on it) wasn’t strong enough to convict on their own.

        So to review

        (1) Ukraine says no QPQ, was not even aware aid was being held at the time. Corroborated by transcript.

        (2) All witnesses confirm that they saw no QPQ.

        (3) FBI lied to obtain warrants. Mueller’s probe was based on the phony Steele Dossier and trump tower meeting, rendering the question of whether he tried to prove collusion a total moot point.

        This case doesn’t reach trial in real life, PERIOD. It was not fair, not transparent, full of leaks and innuendo that was damaging to the defendant. It’s much worse than that Bundy case, where the judge threw the case out because the government overcharged them or something.

        But as Reason reminds us impeachment is a political process, so we should all smile like idiots and watch the democrats and FBI play their own rules while failing to prove any real impeachable offense, crime or otherwise. It’s all so tremendously fair.

        1. This November, the House needs to flip. Then get to work on abolishing FISA courts and downsizing the FBI to nothingness. The trauma being done to our Republic with this impeachment imbroglio is grave.

          1. It should be noted that “this impeachment imbroglio” is pretty much what demoncraps have been doing since Trump got the nomination and that the FBI allowed the last, demoncrap president’s administration to use it in such a corrupt manner.

        2. “I cannot exonerate” means “I exonerate”
          To Trumptards!

          Like Orwell’s Newspeak in “1984”
          “Freedom in slavery …. War is peace … Ignorance is Strength”
          (How Orwell described mind control of subservient dottards)

    3. Your first paragraph lit a bulb in my head. Maybe I’m late to this line of thinking, but is it possible that this whole impeachment is to distract from the criminal corruption of the FISA court abuse/Mueller report fiasco? The players in that have done enough to warrent prosecution and prison terms. The FISA court was lied to, yet no one seems to care at the moment. The timing of these two things seems “interesting”.

      1. No, it’s not a distraction. The Democrats have been quite open about the fact that they were going to look for something to impeach him over the minute he took office. Hillary gave them “the Russians did this!” angle to initially pursue, but when that ultimately went into the toilet, they decided to try and get him on the same thing that the guy supposedly being targeted actually did, and blatantly admitted on video to doing.

    4. “There is no conceivable scenario that this case would have ever reach trial.”
      https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf

      Lots of people much more intimate with the law disagree with you.

  24. Trump..all he does is win, win, win, win, win! Did’t do anything that Obama, Biden, Clinton, Brennan (the communist voter) did to him….as Obummer said…politics is a full contact sport.

    Oh the Russians are under the bed? Coming from the same types of groups whose that were apologists for Lenin, Troysky, and Stalin this is rich. Trump is right up with the Rosenbergs…huh wokes?

    Trump..winner….Reason wokes…losers…bigly

    1. If Trump is such a winner why is he losing in the polls to an octogenarian communist who loves the Soviet Union? Plus, I thought about voting for Dear Leader because I thought he might shake things up a bit, but other than acting like a corrupt jackass and publicly relieving his bowels on twitter every night while he sits on the can he pretty much runs the place like Obama and the Deep State did. What gives?

      1. “If Trump is such a winner why is he losing in the polls”

        50 points!!!

      2. Funny, the polls had him losing to The Hag. Look how that turned out. But then, you’re a stupid cunt.

        1. “Funny, the polls had him losing to The Hag”

          You guys are so, so dumb. I’m not gonna try to explain what polling actually means to you again. Just know you are wrong.

          1. From the Hill, June 14, 2019:
            “Landslide polls spark angst: These geniuses saw Clinton as ‘unstoppable'”

            Democrats and Republicans alike are skeptical of early polls predicting a landslide victory for Democrat Joe Biden over President Trump on Election Day 2020.

            To Trump and Republicans, the polls are fake news and no more reliable than surveys predicting Hillary Clinton would be elected president in 2016.

            Some Democrats are equally skeptical, warning their party not to buy into the early data.

            “These same geniuses all predicted that Hillary Clinton was unstoppable and inevitable,” said Chris Kofinis, a Democratic pollster.

            While Trump argues the polls undersell his support, some Democrats say surveys showing Biden well ahead of the Democratic field are not to be trusted.

            Both sides think a close race in 2020 is likely and that surveys showing Biden and other Democrats with huge leads aren’t likely to reflect Election Day’s reality.

        2. ANOTHER FUCKUP BY LAST OF THE SHITHEADS!
          Funny, the polls had him losing to The Hag. Look how that turned out.1) HE LOST TO HILLARY IN THE POPULAR VOTE, DUMMY (all that’s being polled.)

          2) SET A NEW RECORD FOR “ANTI” VOTES (Voted against Hillary, NOT for him.)

          3) WON THE ELECTORAL LANDSLIDE (snort) by a MASSIVE 39,000 voters … in three states COMBINED … 0.03% of the total vote. HOW MUCH INFLUENCE WAS NEEDED BY RUSSIA + WIKILEAKS + COMEY?

          But then, you’re a stupid cunt.

          (SMIRK)

          FOX NEWS SAYS MOST VOTERS PLAN TO VOTE AGAINST TRUMP.

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks the Electoral College doesn’t matter.

            1. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH
              IT’S NOT MEASURED IN THE POLLS … WHICH AGAIN PROVES YOU A PSYCHO TRUMPTARD

              HE’S PISSEDFunny, the polls had him losing to The Hag

              HE DID LOSE, in what the polls measure.

              He also lost in election day polls that found a record 17% of his votes were against Hillary, NOT for him.

              And his Electoral Vote “landslide” was …. wait for it … 39,000 voters. in three states combined … 0.03% of the overall vote …. so how much influence was needed by Russia, Wikileaks and Comey???

              LOSER 🙂

              (Trumptard LIES that I don’ think the Electoral College MATTERS … while he doesn’t know what it EVEN IS!!)

              (walking away laughing at Gomer … )

              Funny, the polls had him losing to The Hag

      3. They told us in 2016 that Crooked Hillary was a lock. I mean, the NYT and WaPo and CNN and MSDNC were all saying the day before the election how Crooked Hillary was unbeatable.

        POTUS Trump, OTOH, sits in the Oval Office.

        1. LIAR
          Hillary won the popular vote
          A record near-10-million voted AGAINST Trump.
          17% of Trump’s votes were cast AGAINST HILLARY. not FOR him (a new all-time record for anti votes)

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks the popular vote matters in a Presidential election.

            1. POLLS MEASURE VOTERS, NOT ELECTORS!! (smirk)

    2. Hey, Sparky! When did George Will and Chris Wallace do any of this?

      Oh the Russians are under the bed? Coming from the same types of groups whose that were apologists for Lenin, Troysky, and Stalin this is rich. Trump is right up with the Rosenbergs…huh wokes?

      Crazy as a loon. Trump’s base.

      P.S. Even Fox News reports that most Americans want Trump removed from office. And most would refuse to vote for him, if the election was today.

      So we now have wokes vs jokes!
      Left – Right = Zero.

      1. Sure Old Mex.

          1. Buttplug ALWAYS fails to rebut ANYTHING.

  25. Meanwhile, James Clapper continues to breathe the free air.

    The IRS, FBI, DHS, ATF and DOJ have all been weaponized against the political enemies of the state in the past 10 years with no prosecutions.

    The impeachment of a president is nothing if we can’t impose the law upon the government we created and fund.

    1. Yeah, see point above… Manafort, Flynn, Stone, etc. either are in jail or about to land in jail while KKKlinton is allowed to roam free in New York, go to plays, meet with adoring fans, etc. Why isn’t she in jail for the manifest crimes she committed when she shared a recip with Sidney Blumenthal on her government-supplied IPhone?

      1. “Why isn’t she in jail for the manifest crimes she committed”

        Certainly not because of thd deep state that doesn’t exist.

        Now, don’t you have women and children to send to gulags again Sebastian? Or maybe you could pay your mortgage by getting a job?

        1. Not me, I came up with the term “cankle bracelet” for Hillary to wear on house arrest.

          1. Sure Hihn.

      2. Why isn’t she in jail for the manifest crimes she committed when she shared a recip with Sidney Blumenthal on her government-supplied IPhone?

        Cuz you’re just another brainwashed fool.

    2. “Meanwhile, James Clapper continues to breathe the free air.”

      As does the hag, after destroying subpoenaed evidence and selling political access while a sitting SoS.

      1. Did she lie to defend nazis and racists?

        1. Sure Sebastian.

          1. HERE’S THE PROOF, YOU BRAINWASHED MORON.
            TRUMP LIED TO DEFEND YOUR FELLOW NAZIS AND RACISTS

            UNDENIABLE PROOF!

            Initial assault, Charlottesville– Nazis and white supremacists attacking with clubs, against peaceful protesters
            “Alt-Left” standing peacefully, no visible clubs or bats.
            Alt-Right Fascists/Racists crash into them en masse, swinging clubs.
            Fascists are carrying the same shields as cops in riot gear. The motherfuckers CAME for violence.

            Next, PROOF Trump is a lying sack of shit … and Buttplug a brainwashed puppet of the ruling elite. (smirk)

          2. Part 2

            The actual video …Trump’s own voice … stating a PROVEN lie… as the snotty punk he is.

            “What about the alt left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt right? Do they have any assemblage of guilt? What about the fact that they came charging with clubs in their hands swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do.”

            Trump lied … shamelessly — to defend Nazi and racist assaults.
            TRUMP: Alt-left initiated violence …. PROOF: Alt-right
            TRUMP: … wearing black helmets. PROOF: Alt-right, nazi helmets..
            TRUMP: Alt-left charged with clubs PROOF: Alt-right
            TRUMP: I saw it personally on TV! PROOF: Video proves Trump a lying sack pf shit.

            ****So … will you accept such solid proof… or refuse to, out of tribal loyalty?

            **** To what are you most loyal?
            a) America and liberty
            b) Your partisan tribe.

            NEXT: The smoking gun (lol)

          3. 4 men charged in violent Charlottesville rally described as ‘serial rioters’

            Three members of a white supremacist group were sentenced to prison Friday for kicking, choking and punching multiple people during the 2017 “United the Right” rally in Charlottesville and other rallies in California. The three were members of the California-based militant white supremacist organization “Rise Above Movement.”

            A fourth defendant, Cole Evan White, will be sentenced at a later date, the attorney’s office said.

            “These defendants, motivated by hateful ideology, incited and committed acts of violence in Charlottesville, as well at other purported political rallies in California,” U.S. Attorney Thomas T. Cullen said.

            “They were not interested in peaceful protest or lawful First Amendment expression; instead, they intended to provoke and engage in street battles with those that they perceived as their enemies.”

            Watch this thread. Trump’s not the only psycho on the alt-right.

            And Buttplug … like EVERY time he loses … will say, “Sure …”
            What a pathetic loser.

            1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano doesn’t think Bernie Sanders should be held accountable for his supporters conducting mass shootings or trying to assassinate Congressmen.

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  28. “Team Trump’s Final Defense: He Didn’t Do It, but Even If He Did, It’s Not Impeachable”

    Apparently Billy needs a primer on legal arguments from the VC. Yes, is sounds weird to lay people, but that form of argument is near universal in actual court cases.

    1. You said something so totally fucking stupid … IN PUBLIC? OMFG!

      “Lee Harvey Oswald DID NOT kill President Kennedy. But, even if he did, that would NOT mean he committed a crime.”

      “Hannibal Lector did not eat all those people. But, even if he did, that would NOT mean he committed a crime.”

      Remember, these dorks would lie, to defend Trump of even murder … according to Trump … and they don’t mind Trump saying they TOTALLY lack ANY moral values!

      WHY are Trumptards as crazed as Bernietards?
      Tribal mentalities. Low IQs. Lack of character.

      1. I am not sure I understand the comment. In normal trials, there are always a sequence of specific points that need to be proven to establish that a crime has been committed. The defense works to break the the chain, at any step, to show that the prosecution has not proven its case.

        To be absurd,
        For example, he wasn’t there (alibi).
        Even if he was, he has no left hand and the hand smear was of a left hand.
        Even if he was, he is blind, and so could not aim.
        And so on.

        All that needs to happen is that on link in the chain fails, and the defense has raised reasonable doubts. That is how criminal lawyers work and develop arguments.

        1. I am not sure I understand the comment.

          Your fuckup was ridiculed. You know it was, which is why you changed your “argument” … which I now also ridicule.

          THIS was your bullshit. (My boldface for the mentally challenged)

          “Team Trump’s Final Defense: He Didn’t Do It, but Even If He Did, It’s Not Impeachable”

          Apparently Billy needs a primer on legal arguments from the VC. Yes, is sounds weird to lay people, but that form of argument is near universal in actual court cases.

          Which OBVIOUSLY has nothing to do with THIS bullshit.

          i In normal trials, there are always a sequence of specific points that need to be proven to establish that a crime has been committed. The defense works to break the the chain, at any step, to show that the prosecution has not proven its case.

          Another alt-right blowhard PROVEN full of shit.

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano found out all he needed to know about how courts handle cases when he went to bankruptcy court.

            1. BANKRUPTCY COURTS DO NOT JUDGE CRIMES. (sneer)

  29. I don’t believe it’s possible for Billy–or any of the other simpletons that Reason’s writers have morphed into–to understand this.

    The President’s defense isn’t saying,

    “He didn’t do it, but even if he did, it’s not impeachable”

    They’re saying,

    You’re accusing him of doing things that are intrinsic parts of his job. This is not impeachable

    And they’re right. He’s accused of talking to foreign heads of state and trying to get them to help investigate election interference and corruption.

    That’s part of his job.

    1. The President’s defense isn’t saying,
      “He didn’t do it, but even if he did, it’s not impeachable”

      They’re saying BOTH! (smirk)

  30. Well Billy, Trump’s defense team is right on both arguments. What again is the point you are attempting to make?

    1. Do you also defend Trump’s TOTALLY SHAMEFUL LIE about Charlottesville … that it was the alt-LEFT who launched the mass assaults … NOT Trump’s nazi and racist base?

      Trump did say you’d lie, even to defend him of shooting someone to death, on Fifth Avenue, in broad daylight. How low can you sink, when placing party about country and honor?

  31. How can this be Trump’s final defense when the Democrats still want more witnesses?

    1. Trumptards are EAGER to be manipulated and brainwashed!
      But you’re correct, the GOP rules are a totally corrupt coverup.

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