School Choice

Elizabeth Warren Would Rather Make You Fix Your Terrible Public School Than Let You Send Your Kid to a Charter School

"You don't like the building? You think it's old and decaying? Then get out there and push to get a new one," she said.

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Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) has a plan for public education, and it starts with parents. 

"If you think your public school is not working, then go help your public school," she told the National Education Association (NEA) as she touted her stance against charters. "Go help get more resources for [your public school]. Volunteer at your public school. Help get the teachers and school bus drivers and cafeteria workers and the custodial staff and the support staff, help get them some support so they can do the work that needs to be done. You don't like the building? You think it's old and decaying? Then get out there and push to get a new one."

How she expects parents to do this—particularly the poorer ones she says she wants to help—remains unclear.

In recent years, the Democratic presidential candidate has doubled down against charter schools. She adopted the stance in 2016, when (in her words) "a handful of bazillionaires" attempted to lift the cap on charters in Massachusetts. But Warren found herself in hot water last month, just a week after her NEA interview was released, when she was caught speaking misleadingly to a group of black protesters from the Powerful Parent Network, an organization that supports school choice. 

"My children went to public schools," she said, pushing back against accusations that she doesn't practice what she preaches. But her children didn't only go to public schools: As Reason Foundation's Corey DeAngelis discovered, she sent her son, Alex, to a private school from fifth grade onward.

"There's no reason poor families should be forced to keep their children in failing schools," DeAngelis tells me. "Let's be clear: It's the schools that are failing the families, not the other way around."

Warren's position relies largely on the notion that charters are robbing public schools of their rightful inheritance. "Public dollars must stay in public schools," she told the NEA. But as I've noted before, that dichotomy is fictional. All charter schools are public schools. Not only that, they're also cheaper, and they do more with what they're given: Charters receive 27 percent less funding per pupil, yet somehow do more with those dollars

What's more, charters help the very populations that Warren insinuates they are leaving behind. And it's inconvenient that she represents Massachusetts, because the positive effects of charters couldn't be more clear in the Bay State. As Jonathan Chait notes at New York:

Boston has probably the most effective public charter schools in America, producing enormous learning gains for the most disadvantaged children. "Charter schools in the urban areas of Massachusetts have large, positive effects on educational outcomes," reported a Brookings study. "The effects are particularly large for disadvantaged students, English learners, special education students, and children who enter charters with low test scores." Researchers have asked and answered every possible objection: Boston's charters are not "skimming" the best students, they do scale up, and they do not harm students left behind in traditional public schools. (Indeed, "charter expansion has a small positive effect on non-charter students' achievement.")

The majority of Hispanic Democrats (52 percent) and Black Democrats (58 percent) hold favorable opinions of school choice. Yet charter schools have moved from a relatively bipartisan issue to a polarizing one. Warren's comments about her fight against charter expansion lend some insight into why that has happened: "I'm proud of where the union was." This is less about helping vulnerable communities and more about retaining her strong support from teachers unions, which worry that charters will siphon off their members.

Warren isn't wrong on her diagnosis of the overall problem. "Assigning children to schools by zip code, and doing funding by zip code, means that our public schools are very uneven," she told the NEA. That's certainly the issue at stake. But it's one that charter schools can help address.

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  1. I mean, is she wrong? You’re ok with your special snowflake getting a good education but screw everyone else right?

    Heaven forbid someone ACTUALLY tell it like it is.

    1. Why’s it my job to raise your kid at my own kid’s expense?

      1. Cuz you didn’t pay for my birth control or abortion?

        1. +100000 LOL…

    2. Oh, and how it is is that she sent her kid to a private school. Revealed preferences.

      1. Look, she says that YOU need to fix your public school.

        Just because she couldn’t be bothered to do so with her own kids doesn’t mean she wants to allow you to do the same. Freedom is for the elite’s, the lower classes need to know their place.

        Just like how the elites that want to restrict your right to own means of self defense always have armed guards. Even in nations where the populace was already disarmed.

        Curious.

        1. Do as I say, not as I do.

          – Liawatha Warren

    3. Why should I do what she refused to do herself?

      My kid isn’t a fucking experiment.

    4. Yes, she’s wrong. First, she’s wrong because I have no special moral or legal obligation to educate your kid. I do have an indirect duty to society – which I meet by paying my taxes. Neither you nor I can or should be compelled to provide “volunteer” labor to compensate for the mismanagement and waste of our tax dollars by educational bureaucrats. Second, she’s wrong because she supports institutions which actively oppose parental involvement.

      Third, she’s a hypocrite because she is demanding that we do things that she didn’t do when her own kids were in school.

      1. Neither you nor I can or should be compelled to provide “volunteer” labor to compensate for the mismanagement and waste of our tax dollars by educational bureaucrats.

        *applause*

      2. And try and volunteer at a school. Unions flip out about that.

      3. I do have an indirect duty to society – which I meet by paying my taxes.

        ugh

    5. Go fuck yourself. The thing about charter schools is at least you’re working with other parents who generally give a shit about their kids. The schools often have more parental involvement and expectations. Likewise charter schools look at how their kids are doing before they look at the tenure of the teachers. It is why many charter schools have parent donation funds to give bonuses to teachers at the end of the year, all voluntary. Meanwhile public schools basically cave to any and every union out there, putting teachers before the students.

      And just to repeat, go fuck yourself.

      1. But, but, the fact that some parents care and make an effort for their kids and some don’t is just more capitalist inequality. Once we get the schools all equal and shit, we need to do the same thing for (to) the families, right?

        1. There have literally been articles written by post modern leftists that literally state the unfairness of kids who belong to parents that care for their achievement, and this is why the state needs to be more involved. Fuck them to. Lots of poor parents go to my kids charter school. They are some of the best people I know. They care for their kids. Money has nothing to do with it. They volunteer time when they cant afford money. And liberals want to take their kids opportunities from them. My charter school passes the state HS graduation exam on 8th grade at nearly 100% rate while the public high schools only pass kids at a 60% rate in senior year. School is lottery entry. But its parents who give a shit about their kids.

          1. So get the government out of it. Parents will automatically care more when they’re paying tuition.

          2. It’s been shown family emphasis on education outweighs all else in predicting success, especially the usual suspects argued about, like dollars per student and classroom size.

            Good to know they are acknowledging it. I suppose they want government programs to teach how to do this?

            1. That depends on whether you want that emphasis to become more broadly understood or whether you want it perpetuated only among those who already know that.

              One of the easiest measures of ‘family emphasis on education’ is ‘# of books in the home’. As few as 20 books – type of books differing by age of the kid (early with an emphasis mainly on reading, later with a bit more emphasis on reference/special knowledge) – adds roughly 2-3 years to a child’s educational attainment.

              So assume the parents don’t know that. Many don’t and I’ll bet that those parents who grew up in a house without books or who early on tuned out of reading/school are the most likely to not know that.

              Give me a non-governmental way that the underlying problem here – that a random child is condemned to poverty merely because of who they were born to – can be addressed. Not ‘solved’ but merely something better than entirely ignored. And be specific. ‘Someone else who’s charitable will deal with that’ AIN’T anything other than ‘ignore the problem’.

    6. Your stupid comment would have relevance if every Democrat politician actually sent their kid to public school, especially in the shithole districts of DC, NYC, and LA/SF.

    7. “I mean, is she wrong? You’re ok with your special snowflake getting a good education but screw everyone else right?”

      Maybe you and I have different thoughts on how our special snowflakes should be educated. Maybe I think the school needs a new roof, and you think it needs more library books? I can send my kids to a school with a new roof, and you can send yours to a school with good books.

      1. ^^The “freedom” that comes from cancelling socialism.. And the “freedom” we have lost due to it.

    8. Yeah she is wrong. And mainly because she gave that speech to a teachers UNION. If she had given it to – say the PTA – then I’d say she was at least partially serious about involving parents in reforming schools.

      When schools were generally governed as individual schools rather than as consolidated districts, the membership of the PTA was probably 10x higher than the membership of the NEA. Which makes sense given that there are a lot more kids in a class than teachers and those kids have parents. Even during the 50’s – when the rapid growth of suburbs ‘forced’ consolidation of schools into districts – from 130,000 governance entities down to 15,000 or so – the effect of that consolidation hadn’t really taken hold mentally or governance-wise. So by 1960 with K-12 enrollment at 41 million, PTA membership was 12 million and NEA/AFT membership was 750k.

      But that is when the district mentality took hold. That size entity is governed by professionals and bureaucrats – who negotiate only with unions of employees. Parent role changes from actually running the school board to being a mere nuisance outside ‘election day’.

      No surprise – now K-12 enrollment is 56 million, NEA/AFT membership has since risen to 5 million and PTA membership has plummeted to about 4 million – most of whom are not actually even mere parents anymore but are ‘school employees with kids’.

      1. Yeah she is wrong. And mainly because she gave that speech to a teachers UNION.

        That’s a good point that adds a whole new layer of sinister.

        1. You want sinister? Charter schools were originally a vision of Albert Shanker – head of the AFT. Which then somewhat morphed into nothing but non-union rent-seeking.

          1. “sinister”

            Fuck you.

            1. haha. You upset that ‘libertarians’ take a cue from a public sector union in order to do nothing more than siphon the rent-seeking pipeline to different recipients?

              1. Not even close, retard, watching you flail around like a fucking idiot because you dont even understand why you got told off is poetry.

          2. Rent seeking? Fuck your statist desires. Cost per pupil for charter schools is generally 80% of the state spending on public schools and the charters still do better.

            1. Charters do better eh?

              The ten ‘states’ with the highest % of charter enrollment are: DC (by far), AZ, CO, LA, MI, UT, CA, FL, DE. The only school system of those re actual outcomes in the top 10/15 or so of all states (and remember the US sucks rel to most other advanced countries – and pays a lot more) is Delaware.

              So what’s the slogan – still crappy schools but now 20% off. Or maybe – kinda works in Delaware.

              1. Have they gotten better since charter schools were introduced?

                *looks*

                Why yes they have. You look even dumber now.

              2. Are you paid by a teachers union? You seem to have no knowledge of facts. To compare groups you need to normalize the data you fucking retard. Look at public vs charter in state dumbfuck. Hell, even normalize by race and Texas destroys Wisconsin. You really are a dumbfuck.

                1. Yeah I must be paid by a teachers union. The NEA actually. That’s why I tried to bamboozle you re the NEA and PTA in the first comment.

                  You R’s are just so intelligent. Can’t pull anything over on you.

          3. Shanker. The head of the AFT who said that he’ll worry about the students when they pay union cues.

      2. can you share sources for these numbers?
        i am not doubting them, they are intriguing and i wish to read more

        1. Here’s one source from Mackinac Center

          duckduckgo – ‘history of school district consolidation’ has a lot more and some are more focused on the history than the ‘what effect’

    9. I mean, is she wrong?

      Yes. I worked in public school construction for many, many years.

      “You don’t like the building? You think it’s old and decaying? Then get out there and push to get a new one” is something you say when you don’t understand that saying this to parents in a poor district is going to get you lynched.

      You think the buildings in poor districts are decaying because the parents aren’t begging for new facilities hard enough? Because parents with three jobs aren’t putting in enough hours at the PTA and raising funds to support the public employee unions?

      It’s “Let them eat cake” level clueless.

      You’re ok with your special snowflake getting a good education but screw everyone else right?

      What is it with progressives and the “special snowflake” thing?


      1. It’s “Let them eat cake” level clueless.

        Now that you mention it, Warren does seem like a modern version of the French aristocracy in more than a few ways. I’d even extrapolate that out into most of our education employees in the United States as well, most especially at the college level.

        If the wig fits…?

      2. That school construction is the reason school districts were consolidated too. Those expanding suburbs needed to build new schools where there had previously been farms. And that requires all the bond issuance stuff that has to roll up to the county/state level. So those ‘newbuild schools’ just never get made independent entities and the existing schools get consolidated to provide the tax revenue for the bonds.

        But people now forget who had the idea and the experience of consolidating school districts. Who developed the model that spread nationwide. Vanderbilt was the expert in that by WW2. They were the expert because they had the combo of training talented educators who had been hired throughout the South in the early days of Jim Crow. ‘Separate but equal’ requires that you consolidate everything into districts so you can screw the black kids school and favor the white kids school and still present a bunch of flimflam that it’s ‘equal’. And unlike the deeper South, TN did make the effort re the flimflam.

      3. Then get out there and push

        What does that even mean?

    10. Fuck off slaver.

    11. yes, she’s wrong

    12. There is nothing wrong with volunteering with your local school district. But she presents this option as the ONLY permissible option. People ought to have the liberty to send their children to private or charter schools as well if they wish.

    13. wearingit
      December.6.2019 at 4:18 pm
      “I mean, is she wrong?”
      Yes, she is

      “Heaven forbid someone ACTUALLY tell it like it is.”
      If someone ever did, a fucking ignoramus like you wouldn’t know.

    14. Funny how people like Warren, Obama, Biden, etc. talk this shit, yet all send their kids to elite or I are schools like Sidwell Friends. Which costs are out $45k per year.

      I guess the children of elite democrats are extra special snowflakes right? Because the same people screaming at us to sacrifice our children to shitty Lublin schools never send their own kids to them.

      So really ‘wearingit’, go fuck yourself.

  2. Don’t like your president? Don’t try to replace him with a better one, just keep pushing for him to change his position on things

  3. Public school was good enough for her children and it’s good enough for yours.

    1. To be fair, I’ve heard the rez has the best schools and Warren may not realize how bad the white man’s public schools are.

  4. How she expects parents to do this—particularly the poorer ones she says she wants to help—remains unclear.

    It’s clear to me; keep voting against democrats.

  5. I am not surprised Warren thinks we all have a bunch of extra time to “get out there and push” for more school facilities or fixes to education.

    Most of us are not unemployed welfare leftists with nothing better to do than lobby the government to take more of our neighbor’s money. We have jobs, most of which don’t involve coercion. We have families. We actually contribute to society unlike this leech of a person.

    1. My trust funds pays for my activism, not welfare. Trust funds should be a guaranteed right in this country.

      /sarc

    2. Most of us are not unemployed welfare leftists with nothing better to do than lobby the government to take more of our neighbor’s money.

      That’s a mistaken impression. These aren’t coffeehouse dirtbags, by and large–most of these people tend to be upper middle class with a spouse who makes enough that they can do politics full-time. Just look at Beto.

  6. “Go help get more resources for [your public school]. Volunteer at your public school. Help get the teachers and school bus drivers and cafeteria workers and the custodial staff and the support staff, help get them some support so they can do the work that needs to be done. You don’t like the building? You think it’s old and decaying? Then get out there and push to get a new one.”

    They did exactly this. And they ended up with a shiny new Charter school.

    1. That’s not what I meant by taking matters into your own hands!

      And what are you planning on doing with that woodchipper?

    2. I know, right?
      The irony of it all.

  7. “…when she was caught speaking misleadingly to a group of black protesters…”

    Nobody has a problem saying “lying” when Trump lies.

    1. Billy couldnt work in a comparison trump so he had to recede to a soft condemnation of warren instead.

    2. That’s the most hilarious passive-voiced euphemism I’ve seen in recent memory.

  8. It’s not about the fucking BUILDINGS.

  9. “You don’t like the building? You think it’s old and decaying? Then get out there and tax your neighbors to get a new one,” she said.

  10. Don’t you realize that you serfs are bound to that school as you are bound to the land?

    And like in the articles about the busing plans in NYC, if you ask too many embarrassing questions of the school district officials you will be shunned as a racist or some other personal attack.

  11. I have an important observation.

    Public schools aren’t a federal issue.

    But I find it difficult to compare apples to tomatoes.

    Heritage says DC spends $29k/student.
    Teaching-certification.com says is it $18k.
    ourdcschools.org breaks it down by school and shows a wide range of $10k-$30k. e.g. Roosevelt HS shows a total budget of $18k/student but only $8k is for “general education” Eegads. I think I found the problem.

    1. Pro public education groups attempt to remove the costs of administration which is roughly half of the school budget, why you see numbers half the cost of actual from those groups.

      1. ^ This. Construction costs are often tracked separately, as well, and tend to be debt-funded.

        1. And as California voters know, bond measures are paid for by the people who buy the bonds! Definitely not taxpayers.

          1. I’m reminded of this every time the lying PsOS pitch another bond issue.

      2. Then factor in the money spent on special education, which is massively expensive. How much money are we spending so kids with severe mental disabilities can possibly be made functional enough to be Walmart greeters? Enough to bankrupt a school district?

    2. Difficult to compare apples to tomatoes???

      Some apples are red. Tomatoes are red.
      Some apples are green. Tomatoes start out green.

      There. Was that so hard?

      1. Some apples are red. Tomatoes are red.
        Some apples are green. Tomatoes start out green.

        The bill for this study will be $75k.

  12. Yes, Of course she is. We want politicians to come up with solutions that benefit society as a whole. Allowing some students to leave low performing schools helps some but leaves many still in those schools. Some other countries have solid public schools so we know it can be done, and there is no reason why we can’t fix our schools here. While charter schools have a place in the overall picture, she is quite right to focus on fixing public schools for all.

    1. Except it’s not the top economic tiers that are attending charter schools, it’s largely lower-income families who don’t want to send their kids to the shitty neighborhood public school.

      1. I never meant to imply that it was rich kids that were benefiting from charter schools. My (and Warren’s) point is that we need to focus on fixing shitty public schools. Charter schools can be part of the overall solution, but all students deserve a quality education.

        1. Which is what charter schools are.

          They are public schools.

          The point of the charter school is actually to give choice and replace the “you live in this neighborhood, you go to this school” model. An ideal public school model would be all charter schools – or better yet, all vouchers so you could include private schools too.

          I my area, only a couple of the most expensive private schools cost more per kid than the public schools spend. Some are much, much less. All of the private schools also offer a lot of need-based aid. School choice would make the world a much better place.

          Our school system has charters and magnet programs and “choice” to a limited degree beyond that – you can petition for reassignment. It makes for a pretty good school system if you are really engaged as parents.

          On the other hand, it is also really tough. Because parents are not experts in such things, and figuring out where your kid will get the best education is tough and not exactly down to a science. Making a mistake means burning a year in a location that is a bad fit. But overall, things keep getting better with the feedback that this system provides.

          1. I was looking at magnet schools in my area and it looks like they are used by the district to pull students into the lowest grade schools with the highest discipline problems.

            Not so in smaller counties like the one I grew up in, where the schools were pretty much comparable. Each school had it’s own magnet.

            1. I was sent to a Magnet in Tucson under the same guise. It just means extra state and local money for a minority majority school. They often have gangs and worse educational outcomes. It was used to cost shift the higher property tax districts to minority districts under the guise of better education. Parents didnt know any better and pulled is after 6 months and went to a private school on scholarship.

              1. Probably depends on where you’re at. There’s a magnet school in Aurora, CO called Aurora Quest. In one of the worst districts in Colorado, it’s ranked 2nd in the entire state for student performance.

                What’s interesting here, though, are the student demographics. Most of Aurora Public Schools is about 60-80 percent Hispanic, depending on how close the schools are to the Cherry Creek School District in south Aurora/Centennial (most of the white middle and upper middle class left APS in the mid-late 90s after Lowry Air Force Base, the Rocky Mountain Arsenal, and Fitzsimons Army Medical Center closed). Quest is 50% white, 20% Hispanic, and 11% African-American. In a district where 60-80% of the kids in a school are typically on free/reduced lunch, Quest is about 25%.

                Which tells me that the kids going to Quest are primarily of those middle-upper middle class families that live mostly in the southeast metro area and already are heavily invested in their kids’ education, rather than the poorer minority families that might happen to have an exceptional child.

          2. Charter schools also provide options for education. There are rigorous charter schools, trade charters, etc. Kids can find which schools work for them. This is much better than the one size fits 15% but we force the other 85% into it also style of common core.

        2. Warren is openly hostile to the mere existence of charter schools. She has made this clear on numerous occasions. Why pretend otherwise?

          1. Turns out the non-union charter schools teachers don’t vote for democrats.

        3. If your concern is to fix shit in public schools why is all the energy spent on appeasing teachers unions and growing the administration portion?

        4. how do you fix it? The problem with shitty schools is too many kids coming from homes where no one gives shit if they learn anything.

          Honestly even if all of charters positive benefits could be explained by skimming kids whose parents actually care, i’d be fine with it.

          It sucks that some kids never had a chance to learn anything because of their home life, but thats reality. find something better to serve them than dragging them through a system that only works if parents care.

    2. Allowing some students to leave low performing schools helps some but leaves many still in those schools.

      So the solution is to not allow any of them to leave the low performing schools?

      1. Those Democrats aren’t going to just indoctrinate themselves!

      2. The solutIon is to leave YOUR kids in those failing schools. Important de clears like Warren send their kids to private school, unless they live in an unusually good community.

    3. Some other countries have solid public schools so we know it can be done

      Well, THIS part is true anyway.

      The state of public education is an embarrassing failure in this country.

      1. Our public schools are embarrassingly bad. We should force all kids to be in them.

        -Liawatha

    4. “she is quite right to focus on fixing public schools for all.”

      In fact, the opposite. eliminate public schools for all. Get the government out of the education business.

    5. Some other countries have solid public schools so we know it can be done,

      This is just plain idiocy. That countries completely unlike the United States have good public schools doesn’t imply shit about the United States.

      Seriously, last time I saw people touting a country as a model for “good public schools” they were using Finland, a “country” that has roughly the same population as metropolitan Detroit. It’s an even bigger idiocy than pointing to the fact that the Troy (Michigan) School District has good schools and concluding that we know that Detroit’s schools can be equally good.

  13. “If you think your public school is not working, then go help your public school,…Go help get more resources for [your public school]”

    What if I don’t think they’re making good use of the resources they have?

    1. Then clearly they need more.

      1. Precisely. The best way to improve the teachers in public schools is to pay those same teachers more money.
        Works every time.

  14. “Public dollars must stay in public schools,” she told the NEA.

    “Just as public dollars stay in public everything else.”

  15. Go help get more resources for [your public school]. Volunteer at your public school. Help get the teachers and school bus drivers and cafeteria workers and the custodial staff and the support staff, help get them some support so they can do the work that needs to be done. You don’t like the building? You think it’s old and decaying? Then get out there and push to get a new one.

    Yeah – my wife did this all through my daughter’s elementary school years. Worked. Her. Ass. Off.

    Elizabeth Warren, please come say this to my wife directly, so I can watch her punch you in the face.

    1. Ditto for my wife.

      She’s right about one thing – parents are the only definitive factor in the quality of the school. Good parents equals good school.

    2. Same here. The public education racket exists to benefit adults who profit from it. It soon becomes obvious to parents that PTA and volunteering is for suckers. If Warren doesn’t know that it can only be because she didn’t do it.

    3. Please post a video of that for all of us to enjoy.

  16. Yes, Commissar Warren, I will be a good citizen and do my patriotic duty.

  17. Funny that she thinks a “bad school” is about the building.

    Sure, a really bad building can be a big detriment. But it is the parents and the teachers that make a school good, not the modern architecture.

    And even a bad building is about management, to a certain extent.

    We chose among several private and public schools for our kids. We ended up choosing a public school. It is fairly new – maybe 30 years old. But it is very clean. This is down to the custodial staff – which also speaks to the principle and his management. They have the same budget as the other schools, but it is noticeably cleaner. The parents and the administration demand it.

    My son has moved on to a magnet middle school. They place the magnet in the worst schools – to bring up the test score averages. That school is filthy. Same school system. But different parents, and different administration. So the custodians are not managed as aggressively, and the place is not so clean. And it makes a difference of your perception of the place. But you go into the magnet classrooms and they are neat and tidy and clean. Because the parents, teachers and students all demand it and see to it, even if the custodians don’t.

    This is just a visible example. Academics is less visible – but it is down to the same thing. Good parents insist on good principles who insist on good teachers. Then the students outperform their peers.

    Our public school is better than the rich kid private school, better than the christian kid private schools, and our kids are getting pushed harder and getting a better education. But it isn’t because of the building, or teacher pay. It is because we chose carefully – and we are where parents demand excellence. (We’ve found that the rich parent private school demands that rich parent gets their ego stroked, and christian private school parents demand christian stuff and stroke my ego. So we went with public, where they just demand that their kids have the best opportunity for success.)

    1. And even a bad building is about management, to a certain extent.

      In most cases, it’s 100% about management, although in fairness to the management it has a lot to do with the unionized maintenance labor. You can’t, as a general rule, get those guys to do jack shit, and when they do do jack shit, what they do do is still shit.

      I can’t tell you what funky, weird stuff contractors come across that public school maintenance workers have done that no contractor could get away with doing.

      This also drives up the cost of the new construction, since the designers have learned that everything has to be built with the expectation that no maintenance whatsoever is going to be done on the building, and that it will just sit until it can’t be used anymore, at which point you will simply tear it down and build a new one.

      1. Also, even if the staff currently there cares and tries really hard, it’s impossible if, for the last 30 years the staff halfassed things. Which is why I’m pushing to get an $8k paving issue fixed at the charter where I work, before it becomes a $40k problem.

    2. Both of my grandkids are in a gifted program in a public school. It’s housed in a crappy ghetto neighborhood but the building has been upgraded. My son tells me that out of 250 students over 100 are in chess club. Parent participation is 100% He got a form letter informing the parents that their son was going to be put into a pull out program because of reading issues. Turns out he’s so far above grade level they didn’t want to let him get bored in the regular gifted class.
      Teachers in schools like this love their jobs. Kids in these schools love going to school. Their parents are all in supporters of the public schools. But progressives would ban these programs along with charters and any other competitors to their dismal racket.

  18. Fundamental Warren/progressive logic: if there are problems with a program sucking on a government teat, just suck harder.

    1. If it’s Warrens teat, all the suction in the world isn’t going to help.

      1. “all the suction in the world isn’t going to help” — And somehow that repeating fact goes completely unnoticed by the lefty progressive socialists year after year after year.

    2. Actually I think it is “if something is wrong it is the people’s fault, government needs more power”.

  19. Yep: that’s the point of public education: giving a good education to everyone with copious amounts of spare time to volunteer to fix it.

    Perhaps you could just pay a bunch of money to the public school system to fix it? Or… perhaps… go to… private school, which is basically… the same thing? Except you can pick one that isn’t broken first.

    I can’t wait until healthcare is like this: “You don’t like it? Volunteer at the hospital!” Yep, that’s how it’s all been sold alright.

    1. Don’t like how Congress takes all your money? Run for Congress! You might actually get a good pension.

  20. The building isn’t the problem.

  21. “Public dollars must stay in public schools,” she told the NEA.

    ??? Shouldn’t those dollars go to where the kids are being educated?

  22. Libertarians had made a lot of progress by 20+ years ago in getting the public school choice movement bipartisan support. Remember in 1996 Bill Clinton at the Democratic national convention voicing support for public school choice? It was in the context of emphasizing public, and not favoring vouchers for private schools, but that shows the movement had come a long way.

    Charter schools were a compromise in the school choice movement — in fact they’re not necessarily part of a choice policy, though practically they always wind up as such. They go back to the early days of public schooling in the USA, so this is a revival of the idea, and it was to accomplish exactly Warren’s desideratum of involving parents more and getting them to take charge. And the result is that they do involve parents more.

    But the general idea that Warren is promoting here is one that leftists just take to naturally. I remember in the early 1990s in a meeting I attended for a discussion of health care reform (basically to involve government more), one physician who was also apparently a left activist seemed like he beamed and salivated when someone asked what happens if in the new regime someone gets short shrift. He said that’s when your doctor has to act as your advocate for your interest. It’s like he relished getting into the Thunderdome to fight against other doctors for a bigger slice of the pie for his patients, and it seemed he assumed this is a desideratum of all right thinking patients and health care professionals as well. Like it was a positive good to have a zero sum game that actually works out as negative sum, rather than freeing all to increase their value by producing and trading voluntarily for more.

  23. “If you think your public school is not working, then go help your public school,” she told the National Education Association (NEA) as she touted her stance against charters. “Go help get more resources for [your public school]. Volunteer at your public school. Help get the teachers and school bus drivers and cafeteria workers and the custodial staff and the support staff, help get them some support so they can do the work that needs to be done. You don’t like the building? You think it’s old and decaying? Then get out there and push to get a new one.”

    Do you think your government is doing a crappy job? Then clearly you need more government!

    1. Do you hate fast-food burgers? THEN EAT MORE FAST FOOD BURGERS!

      1. Does it hurt when government is anally violating you? Try bending over and spreading your legs more!

  24. Public schools in countries around the world are outperforming American students bigtime.

    But let’s not do what they do and fix our system. No, let’s do charter schools which are hit or miss.

    1. No, let’s not do what they’re doing. Let’s also not do charter schools.

      Let’s privatize education. Like libertarians.

    2. “…No, let’s do charter schools which are hit or miss.”

      Just pulled that out of your ass, right?

  25. It is kind of ironic that these people will tell you that you have to use the public school in your district and you can’t be allowed an alternative while then they’ll turn around and tell you how great it is that people are leaving shithole countries for a better life in the US and that we should encourage more of that.

  26. This is where America’s-Mother-In-Law just grates. Lying sack.

    The hypocrisy is amazing. Private school for my kids, but not yours.

    The problem here is not children. The problem is disengaged parents. Education starts at home.

    Next, teacher union contracts with gold-plated benefits with unions donating to legislatures/politicians enables a malignant system that does not serve the interest of children. Do teacher unions represent children? No, they do not. States cannot afford the gold-plated benefits.

    I am all for civic volunteering with an emphasis on volunteer. America’s-Mother-In-Law seems to want to change volunteer to compulsory, and eliminate school choice for all (except the wealthy, like her). F’in hypocrite.

    To borrow her line…So here’s the thing: She ain’t gonna win.

  27. “misleading”

    BS, she was caught lying.

  28. “Make” vs.”let”. The Democrat’s platform in a nutshell.

  29. The absolute best way to ‘fix’ public schools is to leave them.

  30. Warren isn’t wrong on her diagnosis of the overall problem. “Assigning children to schools by zip code, and doing funding by zip code, means that our public schools are very uneven,” she told the NEA. That’s certainly the issue at stake. But it’s one that charter schools can help address.

    Yes, she is wrong. Hell, Los Angeles Unified spends more per student than just about any other district in the country, yet their schools are shit and can’t even compare to a random small town in Utah with half the budget.

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  32. When one HAS to force you by gun-enforced law to pay for the service of an “educator” who is legally bound to “educate this way and only this way.” that you probably wouldn’t PAY them for it if you had a choice — There is bound to be consequences.

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