Free Trade

As Trade War Escalates, Trump Has Impotently 'Ordered' American Businesses Out of China

Trump's economic nationalism has always been an exercise in petty authoritarianism, and it's increasingly difficult to see it as anything else.

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President Donald Trump's trade policies have always been, at their core, an exercise in centrally planned economics and petty authoritarianism.

Every time the president rage-tweets about "America First" economics or makes unverified promises about how his tariffs will bring jobs back to the United States, what he's really saying is that the federal government knows how to construct international supply chains better than private businesses do. Each new round of tariffs is a way of punishing American companies for prioritizing the interests of their customers by sourcing goods in the most cost-effective way. When White House economic advisors like Peter Navarro question the patriotism of American CEOs who do businesses in China, the subtext is that private businesses should operate as the president sees fit, not as their shareholders, executives, and managers do.

If there was any doubt about those conclusions, Trump squashed it on Friday.

I mean…c'mon. "American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China." Even coming from the most powerful elected official on the face of the Earth, that comes off as a tantrum of petty tyranny.

It's also a sign that even the American presidency is largely impotent in the face of the market mechanisms Trump imagines he can alter with a tweet. Indeed, if the tariffs were working the way Trump claims, there would be no need for him to "hereby order" American businesses to do the very thing the tariffs are supposed to be compelling them to do.

The president can't reorder global supply chains with the snap of a tweet, but his trade policies are continuing to damage global markets. The Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged 500 points after Trump's "hereby ordered" tweet—a signal, perhaps, that the stock market understands the effectiveness of central planning. Meanwhile, China has threatened to escalate the trade war on September 1 if Trump goes ahead with plans to impose a new round of 10 percent tariffs on about $300 billion of Chinese imports. On Friday, China's government announced new tariffs on American cars, oil, and industrial goods—expanding its retaliatory efforts beyond farm goods for the first time.

"The fact of the matter is that nobody wins a trade war, and the continued tit-for-tat escalation between the U.S. and China is putting significant strain on the U.S. economy, raising costs, undermining investment, and roiling markets," said Myron Brilliant, head of international affairs for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, in a statement.

The president's orders are unlikely to make it any easier for American companies to shift production out of China. In some cases, the tariffs have encouraged manufacturers to shift production to India, Vietnam, and even Mexico—but that's merely an acceleration of shifts that were already ongoing before the trade war, according to A.T. Kearney, a manufacturing and trade consulting firm whose annual "Reshoring Index" measures domestic manufacturing of consumer goods against imports of the same products from 14 lower-cost countries in Asia. Vietnam's exports to the United States have doubled since 2013, for example, but the rate of growth skyrocketed during the first quarter of 2019.

Those higher input costs have harmed American manufacturers who import component parts—companies like the Wisconsin-based Primex Family of Companies, which has been doing business in China for 30 years. The "indirect costs" of the trade war, such as the pressure to alter supply chains, have been "enormous," CEO Paul Shekoski told Reason last week.

If Trump wanted to help American businesses, he would end his destructive and increasingly erratic trade war instead of rage-tweeting "orders" that would be easier to laugh at if they weren't further a further demonstration of how little he knows about what he imagines he can design.

Even as the tariffs fail to achieve their goals—while imposing immense economic costs along the way—there can be no doubt about the fundamental authoritarianism at the center of the economic nationalism project. That mask started slipping long ago. Today, Trump yanked it off.

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  1. a tantrum of petty tyranny

    But the Con Man IS a petty tyrant.

      1. You have personal knowledge? Share with us how you found out this tidbit of data.

        1. Back when Mr. Buttplug was giving frequent Stormy Daniels updates, that anatomical revelation was mentioned once or thrice.

      2. ╔════╗───────────────╔═══╦═══╦═══╦═══╗─╔╗╔╗╔╗
        ╚═╗╔═╝───────────────╚══╗║╔═╗╠══╗║╔═╗║─║║║║║║
        ──║║─╔══╦╗╔╦════╦══╗─╔══╝║║─║╠══╝║║─║║─║║║║║║
        ──║║─║╔═╣║║║╔╗╔╗║╔╗║─║╔══╣║─║║╔══╣║─║║─╚╝╚╝╚╝
        ──║║─║║─║╚╝║║║║║║╚╝║─║╚══╣╚═╝║╚══╣╚═╝║─╔╗╔╗╔╗
        ──╚╝─╚╝─╚══╩╝╚╝╚╣╔═╝─╚═══╩═══╩═══╩═══╝─╚╝╚╝╚╝
        ────────────────║║
        ────────────────╚╝
        ____________________________________________________

        1. GIANT METEOR 2020 ====€

    1. If one of the hijackers had just showed up in the ER with cutaneous anthrax, which would not be “skin irritation “ or a single lesion and not been diagnosed and aggressively treated he would probably have died…… Read More

    2. And you admitted to posting kiddie porn dildo.

    3. ITT, Hihn admits he WAS Mary Stack, but not since 2 years ago.

      1. FUCKING PSYCHO LIAR
        one ….. sick ….. uck

        1. You just admitted you’re Hihn. And Mary.

          1. PROOF. How crazy these psychos are.

    4. Hey Kiddie Raper. You manage to snag any kids lately with your fake ice cream truck? I’m guessing not, since you sound backed up. It must be tough for you when those eight year old boys play hard to get.

  2. I have to say, this stuff really does move the needle in a negative direction for me. This is so incredibly stupid.

    And you’re right, I am being a lazy bastard at work today.

    1. today?

      love the giant orange baby … somebody did a great job

      1. Hey, sometimes I don’t comment for a whole 24 hours!

      2. Orange is the new black. You racist, bro?

  3. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg Treated Again For Cancer

    Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has just completed three weeks of radiation treatment at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York, the U.S. Supreme Court disclosed Friday.

    Its like the Cancer is keeping her alive?

    Notice that she won’t retire and the only tells the public AFTER not doing her job for 3 weeks….again.

    Just retire lady so Trump can replace you and some poor government employee does not have to bleach dead lady out of that SCOTUS office.

    1. Speculation that RBG “isn’t physically capable of doing the job” is based on sexism. It’s exactly like the completely unfounded health-related rumors Hillary Clinton faced in 2016.

      But don’t worry, RBG will retire after 2021 when Democrats have retaken the White House. Then we’ll get at least one, but possibly three new libertarian-friendly RBG-style justices.

      #LibertariansForRBG

      1. HRC was observed on national TV more than once collapsing FFS.
        She was seen literally having fits and it is well known she often laughed at totally inappropriate times. How the fuck can you possibly deny she has health problems.

    2. your commentary on others’ death often funny in a cringe-y way

      1. I am not even wishing her to croak soon.

        I am just pointing out how ridiculous this is. She is very sick and cannot focus her attention on her job. She needs to retire like any reasonable person would.

        Politics are her life and her “legacy” would be forgotten but for her giving Trump another SCOTUS nomination.

        1. Her legacy, in that case, might consist of being the precipitate for enlargement of the Court by America’s betters.

          1. Trump gets to nominate 6 more justices between now and Jan 2025? Lefties won’t like that.

            1. Facsim speaks in an undeniable voice.

              Trump tweeted on Friday: “Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

              The market crashed AGAIN. Apple the biggest loss.
              How can ANYONE now deny a severe mental breakdown in the White House?

              ***Breaking News … White House FORCED to admit a recession is likely … adding ANOTHER failure to … the worst deficts EVER … slower economy tha OBAMA (slowest since BUSH!) … but says a recession would be “short and mild” … when EVERY prior promise has FAILED … and we sink deeper into debt … Which Trump campaigned on PAYING OFF ENTIRELY in 8 years!!!

              Deficit to top $1 trillion per year by 2020, CBO says

              America’s deficit is rising sharply and will surpass $1 trillion per year by 2020, a gap that has grown since Congress cut taxes and increased spending, the Congressional Budget Office reported Monday.

              “The federal budget deficit grows substantially over the next several years,… Federal debt is projected to be on a steadily rising trajectory throughout the decade.”

              During debate on the bill, Republican leaders predicted that their proposal would spark massive economic growth that would limit — or even eliminate — additions to the deficit. But the CBO projected Monday that the bill would boost economic growth 0.7 percent over a decade — not enough to keep it from adding to the deficit.

              WHY DO CONSERVATARDS SUPPORT TRUMP’S NEW NEW DEAL …DENYING THE BIGGEST CLUSTERFUCK SINCE FDR???

              FOX ABANDONS SINKING SHIP

              FOX NEWS: Trump in big trouble for 2020. Political and economic warning signs there for all to see

              The strong economy Trump touts is anything but and the signs are obvious.

              First, Trump cut taxes and said it would pay for itself. Instead, it has exploded the deficit.

              ***President Barack Obama inherited a trillion-dollar budget deficit in 2009, but it was down to $600 billion by the time he left office.

              ***In just two years, thanks to tax cuts, Trump has taken the deficit back to a trillion dollars.

              ***And on “Fox News Sunday,” White House Economic Advisor Larry Kudlow admitted that the administration is looking at more tax cuts.

              INMATES ARE RUNNING THE ASYLUM

              Next, Trump said China would bear the costs of his trade war with them. Really? Trump’s suspension of additional tariffs is an admission that they have been hurting American consumers despite his claims to the contrary.

              In the Fox News Poll, 46 percent said tariffs were hurting the economy.

              ***The fact is Trump’s best economic growth is 3.5 percent in two quarters out of the 10 quarters he’s been in office,
              ** 3.5 percent, is Obama’s seventh best quarter,
              ** George W. Bush’s eighth best,
              ** and Bill Clinton’s 17th best.
              Yet, Trump claims his economy is the best ever. Far from it.

              **** If that wasn’t bad enough, a staggering 59 percent of voters think Trump is tearing the country apart.

              Fox News leaves Trumpsters all alone, twisting in the wind …

              Left – Right = Zero

              1. Nice to see you earned enough points in your behavior plan to get internet privileges back Hihn.

                1. Even nicer …. WATCHING YOU BE A WHINY PUSSY WHEN YOU LOSE.
                  AGAIN/

                  1. I’m winning so much I’m almost tired of winning.

                  2. Mostly because I don’t pee my pants when I laugh.

                  3. Since I know where you live I should work on a case for conservatorship over you. Since no one could ever love you, im sure you’re a ward of the state.

                    Then I can make all your decisions for you. And I favor hospice, and pulling the plug ASAP. Plus no more internet in the meantime. But if you’re a good boy I might wrangle you an etch a sketch.

              2. Woah. Do you always write your posts like this, like on every website?

                1. Because goobers get so PISSED when their bullshit is PROVEN a lie.

                  1. But why the caps and the bold and the italics and all that? If you’re trying to persuade people, this undermines everything you’re saying.

                    1. Mary Strack is crazy.

                    2. Ridicule

                    3. Only to losers needing a lame excuse.
                      Check the thread. That was …. ridicule.
                      As is mine now,

                    4. You realize Mary that your socks are the easiest to identify cuz of how crazy all your posts are right?

                    5. Mary Strack is crazy.

                      Her name was Mary Stack — about 2 years ago.

                      If you invite crazy right-wing conspiracy nuts to control your mind, you need a better memory to stop making such an ass of yourself …. while stalking your hatred down the page,

                      I did see when he humiliated you, but revenge also requires a functioning brain. Just sayin’

                    6. Sorry I misspelled your name.

                    7. From 2 years ago.

          2. So you’re thinking Trump will want to pack the court after he gets to appoint his third Justice in a single term?

      2. It is so obvious that RBG is hanging on to the bitter end in the vain hope that the Dems win the presidency. She is absolutely incapable of performing her duties as a Supreme Court Justice. It’s rather cruel of the Dems to continue to persuade her to hang on just a little bit longer for political reasons. She should retire and enjoy what little life she left. TBH, I strongly believe there should be a retirement age for all judges. Perhaps set the bar at 70.

    3. Its like the Cancer is keeping her alive?

      Judge Deadpool?

    4. Hey, Dumbfucks.

      Radiation treatment is 30 minutes to one hour per day, lying on a table. But if one is a crazed, hate-spewing right-winger …

      1. This is the craziest thing ever posted on this site.

        1. Sadly, it’s not. Not even by him.

        2. I’ve HAD radiation treatment, imbeciles

          1. It appears to have fried your neurons. You are one deranged wacko.

      2. And what about the convalescence period after radiotherapy. Do you honestly believe that after 30 minutes you are able to jump off the bed and run a marathon.
        For patients in the peak of health other than having cancer it can take a few days to recover from the treatment. For someone of RBG’s age and weakened health that time can run into weeks.
        The bottom line is that she is not capable of performing her duties as a supreme court judge and likely will not be able to do so any time in the future, and quite likely will never be able to continue in an adequate fashion in what remains of her life. If there were anyone in the country who should ideally retire, RGB definitely falls into that category.

        1. It’s like when a pro athlete is clinging to their career even though their skills are fading, or their body is too brittle. Their is dignity in knowing when it’s time to call it a day.

          1. Ridiculing Justice Ginsberg — or anyone — for cancer treatment … also with PSYCHO LIES about it …provides additional proof, for those who need it, that the alt-right is the hatred=spewing, sick-fuck segment of the Authoritarian Right

            lc1789 and Man From Earth … PROVEN psychopathic liars by Mayo Clinic

            ***lc1789
            Notice that she won’t retire and the only tells the public AFTER not doing her job for 3 weeks….again.

            Just retire lady so Trump can replace you and some poor government employee does not have to bleach dead lady out of that SCOTUS office.

            ***Man from Earth
            She was seen literally having fits and it is well known she often laughed at totally inappropriate times. How the fuck can you possibly deny she has health problems.

            She is absolutely incapable of performing her duties as a Supreme Court Justice. It’s rather cruel of the Dems to continue to persuade her to hang on just a little bit longer for political reasons. She should retire and enjoy what little life she left.

            Also see equal shame by Last of the Shitlords,
            R Mac and …. count how many other tribal goobers

            ****ABSOLUTE CRAZIEST BULLSHIT TROPHY*** Man from Earth ….

            And what about the convalescence period after radiotherapy. Do you honestly believe that after 30 minutes you are able to jump off the bed and run a marathon.

            For patients in the peak of health other than having cancer it can take a few days to recover from the treatment. For someone of RBG’s age and weakened health that time can run into weeks.

            There is no convalescence, you bat-shit crazy goober

            https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/radiation-therapy/about/pac-20385162

            As you lie on a table, … You typically receive external beam radiation on an outpatient basis five days a week over a certain period of time. … Expect each treatment session to last approximately 10 to 30 minutes. … You should speak up if you feel uncomfortable, but you shouldn’t feel any pain during your radiation therapy session.

            Keep watching. They are PROUD of doing this …. for the Holy Cause

            1. Raving idiot idiotically raves.

              1. <b

              2. Do we believe Mayo Clinic? Or the one the conservatard they prove to be a liar?

        2. PROOF: Man from Earth …. PSYCHO

          Man from Earth
          August.24.2019 at 12:33 pm
          And what about the convalescence period after radiotherapy. Do you honestly believe that after 30 minutes you are able to jump off the bed and run a marathon.
          For patients in the peak of health other than having cancer it can take a few days to recover from the treatment. For someone of RBG’s age and weakened health that time can run into weeks.
          The bottom line is that she is not capable of performing her duties as a supreme court judge and likely will not be able to do so any time in the future, and quite likely will never be able to continue in an adequate fashion in what remains of her life. If there were anyone in the country who should ideally retire, RGB definitely falls into that category.

          That’s the psycho brain of a Trumptard.

          Called out here:

          https://reason.com/2019/08/23/as-trade-war-escalates-trump-has-impotently-ordered-american-businesses-out-of-china/#comment-7908472

  4. Boehm, this is how you write a non-freak out article about trade.
    Keep calm and trust in free-market democracy: Hong Kong shows how America can defeat China

    1. LC1789 ….SAYS EVEN HONG KONG IS NOT AS STOOPID AS TRUMP!!!!

      1. No one said that ever.

    2. Keep calm and trust in free-market democracy: Hong Kong shows how America can defeat China

      But you don’t believe in free-market democracy. You’ve consistently insisted that only ‘Top Men’ could possibly create and manage international trade.

      1. He has literally never made that argument.

  5. ‘It is an act of insanity to stay in the U.S.:’ Why this 63-year-old teacher ditched Massachusetts to retire in the highlands of Panama

    Funny how Lefties ruin the USA then move to somewhere else to fuck that place up to.

    I am sure this ex-teacher (who didn’t brainwash young minds with Lefty nonsense) will never run back to the USA, when Panama get another dictator like Manuel Noreiga.

    1. Trump is as bad.
      Even FDR never issued direct orders to private businesses.
      Even funnier ALL (12) of Trump’s ACTUAL businesses failed.
      Can you name any other President FORCED to pay a $25 million settlement for FRAUD …. while in office … other than Trump? Huh?

      1. Trump has every right to order businesses out of China. So do I.

  6. Dow plummets more than 600 points after Trump orders US manufacturers to leave China

    Trump says something to cause the DOW Jones to drop 600 points but nothing Trump says can cause the DJIA to go up, according to media hacks.

    1. Oh sure he could. He could say “ just got off the phone with President Xi. We are suspending all tariffs and returning to status quo. Starting new negotiations on free and open without barriers.”

      1. Back to tire tariffs and other trade restrictions, pre-Trump?

        1. That would put us in a better position than we are now with the extra tariffs and trade restrictions Trump has been instituting.

          1. Better position how?

      2. Even then that would depress the Dow – because businesses are moving to adjust their plans to the new reality. Sticking his hand in the stream again means they have to go back and re-assess. So everyone panics. Again. You don’t calm people down by acting like you’re in a frenzy.

        1. I think investors would drive it up on the idea that things would soon return to the normal level. People are worried now. Profits may not show up right away but that is ok.

    2. Well, no. Why would it? The only thing the government does is violence. Everytime a President (any President) speaks its about who he’s going to fuck over next. That makes people jump.

      The best thing Trump (and any President) could do for the Dow is shut the hell up and get out of the way.

      No President, in the history of Presidents, has ever made the country better. The best of them have simply gotten out of the way so that the rest of us can get on with things.

      1. HOW CRAZY IS HE …. ABOUT THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER …. WORSE THAN EVEN OBAMA … PER FOX NEWS?

        Deficit to top $1 trillion per year by 2020, CBO says

        America’s deficit is rising sharply and will surpass $1 trillion per year by 2020, a gap that has grown since Congress cut taxes and increased spending, the Congressional Budget Office reported Monday.

        WHY DO CONSERVATARDS SUPPORT TRUMP’S NEW NEW DEAL …DENYING THE BIGGEST CLUSTERFUCK SINCE FDR???

        FOX ABANDONS SINKING SHIP

        FOX NEWS: Trump in big trouble for 2020. Political and economic warning signs there for all to see

        The strong economy Trump touts is anything but and the signs are obvious.

        First, Trump cut taxes and said it would pay for itself. Instead, it has exploded the deficit.

        President Barack Obama inherited a trillion-dollar budget deficit in 2009, but it was down to $600 billion by the time he left office.

        In just two years, thanks to tax cuts, Trump has taken the deficit back to a trillion dollars.

        And on “Fox News Sunday,” White House Economic Advisor Larry Kudlow admitted that the administration is looking at more tax cuts.

        INMATES ARE RUNNING THE ASYLUM

        Next, Trump said China would bear the costs of his trade war with them. Really? Trump’s suspension of additional tariffs is an admission that they have been hurting American consumers despite his claims to the contrary.

        In the Fox News Poll, 46 percent said tariffs were hurting the economy.

        The fact is Trump’s best economic growth is 3.5 percent in two quarters out of the 10 quarters he’s been in office,
        ** 3.5 percent, is Obama’s seventh best quarter,
        ** George W. Bush’s eighth best,
        ** and Bill Clinton’s 17th best.
        Yet, Trump claims his economy is the best ever. Far from it.

        **** If that wasn’t bad enough, a staggering 59 percent of voters think Trump is tearing the country apart.

        Fox News leaves Trumpsters all alone, twisting in the wind …

        ***Breaking News … White House FORCED to admit a recession is likely … adding ANOTHER failure to … the worst deficts EVER … slower economy tha OBAMA (slowest since BUSH!) … but says a recession would be “short and mild” … when EVERY prior promise has FAILED … and we sink deeper into debt … Which Trump campaigned on PAYING OFF ENTIRELY in 8 years!!!

        Left – Right = Zero

        1. Everything you said is total bullshit. As usual.

          We all laugh at you here. That’s your pathetic legacy. So die already.

          1. Is FOX NEWS bullshit … or PROUD-TO-BE-A-SHITHEAD, the lying stalker? Click the link. (smirk)
            https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/mary-anne-marsh-trump-trouble-2020-political-economic-numbers

            1. Not clicking your link. No one takes you seriously enough to bother. You’re just a drooling moron and a fool.

              Everyone is laughing at you.

    3. nothing Trump says can cause the DJIA to go up, according to media hacks.

      Is there NO limit to your LAME psycho bullshit?

      1. Well there isn’t to yours.

        1. this too is ridicule ….

          Facsim speaks in an undeniable voice.

          Trump tweeted on Friday: “Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

          The market crashed AGAIN. Apple the biggest loss.
          How can ANYONE now deny a severe mental breakdown in the White House?
          ***Breaking News … White House FORCED to admit a recession is likely … adding ANOTHER failure to … the worst deficts EVER … slower economy tha OBAMA (slowest since BUSH!) … but says a recession would be “short and mild” … when EVERY prior promise has FAILED … and we sink deeper into debt … Which Trump campaigned on PAYING OFF ENTIRELY in 8 years!!!

          Deficit to top $1 trillion per year by 2020, CBO says

          America’s deficit is rising sharply and will surpass $1 trillion per year by 2020, …. “The federal budget deficit grows substantially over the next several years,… Federal debt is projected to be on a steadily rising trajectory throughout the decade.”

          WHY DO CONSERVATARDS SUPPORT TRUMP’S NEW NEW DEAL …DENYING THE BIGGEST CLUSTERFUCK SINCE FDR???

          FOX ABANDONS SINKING SHIP

          FOX NEWS: Trump in big trouble for 2020. Political and economic warning signs there for all to see

          The strong economy Trump touts is anything but and the signs are obvious.

          First, Trump cut taxes and said it would pay for itself. Instead, it has exploded the deficit.

          ***President Barack Obama inherited a trillion-dollar budget deficit in 2009, but it was down to $600 billion by the time he left office.
          ***In just two years, thanks to tax cuts, Trump has taken the deficit back to a trillion dollars.

          Next, Trump said China would bear the costs of his trade war with them. Really? Trump’s suspension of additional tariffs is an admission that they have been hurting American consumers despite his claims to the contrary.

          In the Fox News Poll, 46 percent said tariffs were hurting the economy.

          **The fact is Trump’s best economic growth is 3.5 percent in two quarters out of the 10 quarters he’s been in office,
          ** 3.5 percent, is Obama’s seventh best quarter,
          ** George W. Bush’s eighth best,
          ** and Bill Clinton’s 17th best.

          **** If that wasn’t bad enough, a staggering 59 percent of voters think Trump is tearing the country apart.

          Fox News leaves Trumpsters all alone, twisting in the wind …

          Left – Right = Zero

          1. You already said all this gibberish.

            1. Still true (snort)

              1. Yes, it’s still true that you already said this gibberish.

              2. Hihn, you might want to get that deviated septum fixed. I hear that for someone of your advanced age it can become a pneumonia risk.

          2. Of course you said it as TheLibertyTruthTeller. Why bother using a sock when you just copy the exact same words from one to the other? IT WOULDN’T FOOL A FIVE YEAR OLD YOU SIMPLETON!

            (Shits pants laughing)

            1. I have to wonder why Hihn even bothers setting up socks. Everyone realizes it’s him, with his special mixture of stupidity and bizarre punctuation and font choices. I guess he thinks it will make us take him more seriously, as if Hihn’s problem was merely his name and not the superficial, unintelligible gibberish he spews on the Internet.

    4. Investors apparently believe that Trump can order US business to leave China, that the business will actually leave China and that the leaving will tank the aggregated value of American corporations.

      This means one of two things: investors are stupid or US business is entirely too dependent on the government controlled Chinese economy.

      1. Or they’re starting to realize that the US government is lead by a moron.

        1. Supported by crazier morons.

          1. Keep telling me about your family Hihn.

            1. His family abandoned him years ago. No one could ever love him. He will die alone, on the public dole, in a state mental hospital. Drugged up on Thorazine.

        2. Or lots of morons.

    5. “Trump says something to cause the DOW Jones to drop 600 points but nothing Trump says can cause the DJIA to go up, according to media hacks.”

      Live by the sword, die by the sword

    6. Isn’t that the truth. The Dow has risen over 9000 points since he was elected, but according to the leftist media, this cannot be credited to Trump in any way, Yet god forbid the market drops and Trump is instantly to blame.
      How many times have we seen the job statistics which show the lowest unemployment in decades and yet not one of the leftist media outlets has ever given him credit. Most of them STILL attribute the incredible economy to Obama even nearly 3 years after he left office despite the fact that Obama barely had a single quarter of growth above 3% yet Trump has rarely had a quarter below 3%.

      1. How psycho are they? Man from Earth one of the zaniest!

        ….despite the fact that Obama barely had a single quarter of growth above 3% yet Trump has rarely had a quarter below 3%.

        Bend over. This will go in and up with less pain.

        Ready?

        FOX ABANDONS SINKING SHIP

        FOX NEWS: Trump in big trouble for 2020. Political and economic warning signs there for all to see

        The strong economy Trump touts is anything but and the signs are obvious.

        The fact is Trump’s best economic growth is 3.5 percent in two quarters out of the 10 quarters he’s been in office,
        ** 3.5 percent, is Obama’s seventh best quarter,
        ** George W. Bush’s eighth best,
        ** and Bill Clinton’s 17th best.

        Trump cut taxes and said it would pay for itself. Instead, it has exploded the deficit.
        ***President Barack Obama inherited a trillion-dollar budget deficit in 2009, but it was down to $600 billion by the time he left office.
        ***In just two years, thanks to tax cuts, Trump has taken the deficit back to a trillion dollars.

        Trump said China would bear the costs of his trade war with them. Really? Trump’s suspension of additional tariffs is an admission that they have been hurting American consumers despite his claims to the contrary.

        In the Fox News Poll, 46 percent said tariffs were hurting the economy.

        **** If that wasn’t bad enough, a staggering 59 percent of voters think Trump is tearing the country apart.

        Fox News leaves Trumpsters all alone, twisting in the wind … roaring and bellowing their massive bullshit

  7. “When White House economic advisors like Peter Navarro question the patriotism of American CEOs who do businesses in China, the subtext is that private businesses should operate as the president sees fit, not as their shareholders, executives, and managers do.” Damn that sounds familiar…. where did I hear that before… Liz Warren…. Bernie .. the State of California?

    Totalitarian is as Totalitarian does.

    1. ^tHIS

      1. Yes, Liz Warren, Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump are totalitarians who shouldn’t be anywhere near the White House.

        1. Correct

          Left – Right = Zero

          1. Right +Left *4threich =insanity

        2. Trump already lives there losers.

          1. Umm, but he shouldn’t be anywhere near there.
            Verb tense Learn how to use it.

    1. Trump’s Economy …. PER FOX NEWS

      FOX NEWS: Trump in big trouble for 2020. Political and economic warning signs there for all to see

      The strong economy Trump touts is anything but and the signs are obvious.

      First, Trump cut taxes and said it would pay for itself. Instead, it has exploded the deficit.

      **President Barack Obama inherited a trillion-dollar budget deficit in 2009, but it was down to $600 billion by the time he left office.

      ***In just two years, thanks to tax cuts, Trump has taken the deficit back to a trillion dollars. (((ALREADY WORSE THAN OBAMA’S EIGHT YEARS OMG))

      And >on “Fox News Sunday,” White House Economic Advisor Larry Kudlow admitted that the administration is looking at more tax cuts.

      INMATES ARE RUNNING THE ASYLUM

      Next, Trump said China would bear the costs of his trade war with them. Really? Trump’s suspension of additional tariffs is an admission that they have been hurting American consumers despite his claims to the contrary.

      In the Fox News Poll, 46 percent said tariffs were hurting the economy.

      ***The fact is Trump’s best economic growth is 3.5 percent in two quarters out of the 10 quarters he’s been in office,
      ** 3.5 percent, is Obama’s seventh best quarter,
      ** George W. Bush’s eighth best,
      ** and Bill Clinton’s 17th best.
      Yet, Trump claims his economy is the best ever. Far from it.

      **** If that wasn’t bad enough, a staggering 59 percent of voters think Trump is tearing the country apart.

      Fox News leaves Trumpsters all alone, twisting in the wind …

      THE MARKET CRASH Of 1929 WAS CAUSED BY A TRADE WAR … ONE DAY AFTER THE HAWLEY-SMOOT TARIFF PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE …. TRUMP JUST ESCALATED HIS TRADE WAR, IMMEDIATELY AFTER ANOTHER MARKET CRASH ….

      TRUMP’S DISAPPROVAL NOW 62% — IN LATEST AP POLL

      TRUMPTARDS REFUSE TO OPEN THEIR EYES …. LA LA LA LA

      Left – Right = Zero

      1. “INMATES ARE RUNNING THE ASYLUM”

        Ah, so that’s how you got back on the internet. Shame on you Hihn.

        1. Poor loser (snort)

            1. THE MARKET CRASH Of 1929 WAS CAUSED BY A TRADE WAR … ONE DAY AFTER THE HAWLEY-SMOOT TARIFF PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE …. TRUMP JUST ESCALATED HIS TRADE WAR, IMMEDIATELY AFTER ANOTHER MARKET CRASH ….

              TRUMP’S DISAPPROVAL NOW 62% — IN LATEST AP POLL

              TRUMPTARDS REFUSE TO OPEN THEIR EYES …. LA LA LA LA

              1. This makes no sense in the context of this conversation.

    2. Why do we care though? Why do you think we need to fight yet another war to free some other group of people – people who could free themselves if they just wanted to put forth the effort.

      Oh, and by the way – when was the last time the US ‘helping’ another oppressed people actually resulted in those people being better off?

      And why China? Why aren’t you agitating for breaking the greater evil? Or hell – even for going after the low-hanging fruit. China is neither of those things. Its neither the most oppressive state in the world nor is it the easiest to ‘fix’.

      1. Oh, and by the way – when was the last time the US ‘helping’ another oppressed people actually resulted in those people being better off?

        Jews.

  8. Well, he could charge the executives of any of the tech companies with espionage, based on transfers to China of technology useful in weapons development. Probably won’t win, but a fun diversion for the DOJ.

    1. And his goobers!

      1. Don’t eat your goobers Hihn.

        1. I like peanuts, Gomer

          Why are you stalking me again?
          Is your life really SO empty?.

          1. You make me laugh Mary.

  9. Trump can “order” as he wishes. The gullible, uneducated, and bigoted can applaud.

    I hope someone prepares a reliable list of Trump-supporting companies so decent, tolerant, educated Americans can tailor their consumption accordingly — and patriotically.

  10. “As Trade War Escalates, Trump Has Impotently ‘Ordered’ American Businesses Out of China”

    By focusing on the semantics of Trump’s tweets, we sell the legitimacy of our arguments for free trade short–and that’s a blown opportunity.

    If your position is that you’re against Trump because of the semantics of his tweets, then your position is indistinguishable from those progressives who are hostile to trade with China.

    A better headline might read:

    “DJIA falls 623 points on Trump’s Trade War”

    In all seriousness, if you think the markets fell today because of the semantics of Trump’s tweets, you’re missing the forest. It isn’t the way Trump worded his tweets that mattered. It’s that a resolution to the trade war appears to have been pushed even further away than it was before. That’s what made the markets react.

    Do you seriously imagine that people sold trillions worth of stocks today–not because of what Trump’s tweets meant but because of the way they were worded?

    It would be stupid to believe that, right?

    Right?

    1. Would those companies’ stocks have been worth more if Trump had worded his tweets differently?

      1. WHEN HAS IT NOT BEEN FASCISM .. TELLING PRIVATE CORPORATIONS THEY ARE “DIRECTLY ORDERED” TO DO …. ANYTHING …. WHICH EVEN FDR NEVER DID???

        WAS IS ONLY “SEMANTICS” WHEN HITLER DECLARED A “MASTER RACE” … AND THE EXTERMINATION OF ALL JEWS????

        1. “WAS IS ONLY “SEMANTICS” WHEN HITLER DECLARED A “MASTER RACE” … AND THE EXTERMINATION OF ALL JEWS????”

          No?

          1. Yeah, don’t feed the spaz.

            1. YOU SAY IT WAS ONLY “SEMANTICS” WHEN HITLER DECLARED A “MASTER RACE” … AND ORDERED THE EXTERMINATION OF ALL JEWS????

          2. No?

            We agree Ken is stupid.

            1. Ken didn’t say anything about was is only, or extermination of Jews. So no, we don’t agree. But we do both agree you’re a nut.

              1. Hihn is listing using a Nazi handle and ranting about exterminating the Jews.

                Typical progtard.

                1. You seem to confuse the THIRD Reich with all Reichs. First lean what Reich means
                  https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Reich

                  The First Reich was the Holy Roman Empire. The Pope was not Nazi, and there is no record of the Vatican exterminating Jews,

                  The Second Reich was the Hohenzollern empire, and the Weimar Republic from 1871 to o 1933. Also no Nazis and no exterminated Jews.

                  The THIRD Reich was the Nazi dictatorship, and exterminated Jews.

                  Yes, I mentioned the Nazis exterminating Jews …. but DEPLORED it.

                  You will now lie about the proof of this blunder, as you lied about Nazis and “Reich.””

    2. SEMANTICS! …. THIS IS KEN IN DENIAL

      UNBRIDLED FASCISM

      Trump tweeted on Friday: “Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

      The market crashed AGAIN. Apple the biggest loss.
      How can ANYONE now deny a severe mental breakdown in the White House?

      Unless Ken?

      1. You know tweets aren’t executive orders right?

        1. IT’S TRUMP WHO CALLED IT AN ORDER, YOU STALKING FOOL.

          1. So that’s a no. Now I order you to go take a PRN.

            1. You know tweets aren’t executive orders right?

              IT’S TRUMP WHO CALLED IT AN ORDER, YOU STALKING FOOL.

              So that’s a no

              Yes, but YOUR fuckup on who said it was a yes.

              1. Nobody said it was a yes.

                1. Trump tweeted on Friday: “Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

                  1. Tweets still aren’t executive orders Hihn. You should go to bed or you’ll miss the am activity bus ride to the doll store.

                    1. Dollar store lol.

                    2. What time does it leave?

                    3. He probably plays with dollies, while wearing a pretty dress.

          2. Lol, you took your PRN and turned into thefourthreich!

      2. Why do you write your posts like this?

        1. Cuz she’s crazy as a loon.

        2. I enjoy using FACTS to ridicule DUMBASSES
          As I did here.

          1. No you didn’t. You squealed like a stuck pig.

            1. SEMANTICS! …. THIS IS KEN IN DENIAL

              UNBRIDLED FASCISM

              Trump tweeted on Friday: “Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

              Now TWO goobers dismiss a direct order as as “semantic” …. by a fascist President who thinks a tweet is an Executive Order

              1. You’re the only one who thinks a tweet is an executive order.

                1. Trump tweeted on Friday: “Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA.”

                  1. Tweets still aren’t executive orders. Still. Still. Activity bus. Dollar store.

      3. APPL always declines ahead of an iPhone release. Been that way for at least seven years now. Then the release comes and the stock surges after sales reports come in.

    3. Markets are a bit more emotional than we give them credit for. Remember, these are humans, they do human things like react to things like semantics. In this case, its probably a combination, because there wasn’t anything too specific policy-wise in his tweet.

      Would the market have lost less if Trump had simply suggested that American companies SHOULD bring their supply chains to the US instead of saying they are “hereby ORDERED”? I could see that happening. Its quite different than saying something along the lines of: I’m putting a 10% tarriff on these chinese electronics #ScrewChina.

      1. People didn’t sell for losses of hundreds of billions of dollars today because of the way Trump’s tweets were worded.

        And that’s beside the point that the only people who genuinely believe Trump can order companies out of China are stupid people.

        It wasn’t the way the tweets were worded. It was what the tweets signified.

        Those companies’ stocks are worth less if their future earnings are hampered by what they can’t sell in China because of the trade war and what they could save by buying things from China. That’s why the value of their shares fell–their future earnings are hurt by the trade war being even further away from resolution.

        In all seriousness, everyone who genuinely believes that the way Trump words his tweets is the key to the stock market rising or falling genuinely should be ashamed of themselves–like someone walking around with their fly open.

        Wouldn’t it be great if Trump could make the stock market skyrocket by the way he worded his tweets!!! That’s a moronic view of the world. It would also be great if it started raining cold beer during this weekend’s barbecue. The world doesn’t work that way.

        1. People didn’t sell for losses of hundreds of billions of dollars today because of the way Trump’s tweets were worded.

          That’s NOT how losses occur.
          But he did cause them.

          1. The failure of negotiations caused those losses–not the way Trump words his tweets.

            If he’d announced that negotiations were an utter failure differently, do you imagine the market would have reacted differently?

            The correct answer is “no”. If you live in a fantasy world where the syntax of news changes the facts that drive the markets, then snap out of it.

            1. He’s not going to snap out of it Ken. Instead he will double down on his mania.

          2. No Hihn, he didn’t.

            BECAUSE I DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            It was me! FEAR MY POWER!!!!!!!!!

            1. The power of your stench?
              Your delusion that a single goober caused Trump’s latest stock market crash?

        2. People didn’t sell for losses of hundreds of billions of dollars today because of the way Trump’s tweets were worded.

          Sure they do, there are tons of small players in the market, it only gets a several million of them to take action and you can get some real money moving around. People aren’t unfeeling robots, the economy is a lot more organic and decentralized than that.

          It wasn’t the way the tweets were worded. It was what the tweets signified.

          I’m not sure how you’re distinguishing these things, but I think that the way the tweets are worded can influence what they signify.

          In all seriousness, everyone who genuinely believes that the way Trump words his tweets is the key to the stock market rising or falling genuinely should be ashamed of themselves–like someone walking around with their fly open.

          Yeah, if someone thinks it’s “the key”, I agree, they’d have to be an idiot or at least very uninformed. But anyway, I don’t think Reason insinuated that it was the way that Trump worded his tweets that caused the market to dip. The market isn’t even mentioned until paragraph six, and when they do talk about it, I believe they discuss it in the terms you and I both agree it should be discussed.

          Kind of besides the point, but this reminds me of a story this book author (? I can’t remember specifically) said about when he interviewed Bush Jr. — he said that the President told him something along the lines of: you have no idea what it’s like. Everything I do is scrutinized down the smallest detail. Simply giving a speech, and people all across the world try to interpret everything I do — even down to the tiniest details like which way I am looking, whether the corners of my mouth move in a particular way, etc. I wonder if that story is true.

          1. Trip…There is only one small problem with your assumption, Sure they do, there are tons of small players in the market, it only gets a several million of them to take action and you can get some real money moving around.

            Institutional investors account for 90% of stock market activity. The little players (retail investors) don’t amount to much of anything in terms of market activity.

            1. A lot of those institiutonal players use computer algorithms to trigger trades. They see that a significant portion of the 10% retail sellers are selling, the algorithms trigger sales. This is based upon the assumption that consumer confidence (as evidenced by the retail traders selling) is slipping. The institutional players who don’t use computer algorithms see everyone else is selling and begin to start selling themselves. And so on. Was

              1. Also a good point. Consumer confidence.. assuming emotion doesn’t play a roll in the market is naive.

              2. Didn’t that happen once and almost totally crash the market so they had to put some king of brakes on it. I remember something about that.

            2. Fair point but I don’t think it disproves the entirety of what I’m saying. Institutional investors aren’t really much better than retail investors at earning returns. The idea that emotion doesn’t play into this is silly, you don’t suddenly become purely rational just because you make trades on behalf of a corporation.

              1. I should also note that the market only lost like 2.6% so, it’s not like we’re talking about shifts retail investors couldn’t cause, or some combination of both. Plus, there are a lot of small institutional investors. I work for one.

        3. If you reach any further, you’ll wind up touching yourself.

          1. You sound like you know all about it. Reaching both forwards and back it seems.

    4. I am not sure I understand the distinction you’re trying to draw here, but I think Trump’s tweets – their “semantics,” as you say? – mean more to the market than simply “trade war continues.” After all, earlier in the same day, China announced its own counter-tariffs, which already underlined that point.

      Trump’s tweet caused a lot of market participants to pause and ask – Wait, can he do that? And as the subsequent 24 hours have made clear, we now see that Trump, in fact, believes that he has the authority to “order” American companies out of China. So this has created a lot of new uncertainty that the markets will have to sort out, as reflected in the way they dropped upon that tweet.

      No doubt Trump’s bald assertion of authority never in fact granted will play out much like his illegal tariffs have: no concerted industry resistance (no one wants to risk Trump’s ire), no congressional opposition (Republicans are terrified of opposing Trump, Democrats are eager for him to crash the economy already), leading to a standards-less and unconstitutional “waiver” process administered by Cryptkeeper Ross’s Department of Cronyism, whereby the Trump administration will pick “winners” and “losers” in the manufacturing sector, no doubt depending no how quickly they kiss the ring.

      1. There is a negotiating team from China that is set to arrive in Washington DC in early September. Trump announced that he was suspending the tariffs he’d previously announced would hit the Chinese on September 1st, and that made the market rally. The reason the market rallied with that announcement was because if Trump was willing to suspend previously announced tariffs pending the outcome of those negotiations in early September, then there was reason to believe that we might come to an agreement with China in early September.

        It wasn’t the way those announcement were made that made the market rally. It was the rational expectations for a deal behind them.

        Imagine it’s the 19th century, and the Rothschilds receive a message by carrier pigeon from Wellington after the Battle of Waterloo. Whether it reads, “We beat the shit out of Napoleon, and now we’re going to take a dump on his face” or whether it reads, “Napoleon has been defeated”, that doesn’t really matter to the stock market in London. The stock market in London will rally on the news that Napoleon has been defeated regardless of the way the message is worded.

        The messages the stock market received from China and Trump yesterday were thus:

        1) China announced they were creating leverage for themselves by initiating tariffs ahead of the September meeting with Trump–just like Trump has routinely done to China in these negotiations.

        The market shrugged that off as typical brinkmanship ahead of these negotiations.

        2) Once Trump set his tweet out, it became clear that Trump saw the upcoming September negotiations as scrapped.

        That was what the market reacted to–the failure of the September negotiations. If Trump had worded the news of that failure differently, the results would have been the same because the market wasn’t reacting to the way he said the earth would be scorched (order you to find alternatives to China), it was reacting to the announcement that he was scorching the earth under the September negotiations.

        If he intimates on Monday that negotiations are back on track, the market will rally again, but it won’t because of the way he tweets it. It’ll be because the negotiations are back on track.

        1. Incidentally, this failure to mention the September trade talks is similar to Reason staff’s failure to mention the Safe Third Country agreement in Trump’s negotiations with Guatemala. I don’t know if they genuinely have no idea that there trade talks scheduled for September or if they’re just ignoring them, but I’m not sure it really matters. Anyone who’s going off about this on either side and isn’t mentioning the September trade talks are just flailing in the dark.

          It’s just like talking about Trump’s behavior towards Guatemala without ever mentioning the Trump administration negotiating for a Third Country Agreement. It’s the central issue. If we’re talking about this stuff without mentioning the central issues, it probably doesn’t matter whether we do so out of ignorance or because we’re being sneaky. The fact is that our opinions are ignoring the central facts.

          If you were relying on Reason to tell you that the market reacted to the lowered prospects of successful trade talks in September, take that lesson to heart. The September trade talks have been common knowledge since the end of July, at least. Reason used to be an excellent source for news. Yeah, it was always commentary, but in the past, the commentary was always well grounded in the facts. That is not so anymore. Get used to it.

    5. ” It’s that a resolution to the trade war appears to have been pushed even further away than it was before. ”

      Some strange un-named force has pushed a resolution further away! What could it be?

    6. It’s that a resolution to the trade war appears to have been pushed even further away than it was before. That’s what made the markets react.

      That’s true. But we are still nowhere near the markets realizing how far away a resolution is. As they realize that we’ve got another 18 months of tit-for-tat-tweets, then the wording of those tweets matters more.

      Not because of some attempt to parse their meaning – but because tacky tweets with Tourette’s are not the tit-for-tat tactic taught when tact can trim temp so yack can extract pact.

      1. Yeah, but that’s what the markets do–they quantify risks based on the available information.

        The market will tell you what it expects the Fed to do at its next meeting–and by how many basis points. It does that based on new information that becomes newly available every day.

        The market reassessed the likelihood of an end to the trade war starting in September after yesterday’s information became available. And it will continue to do so every day as new info becomes available.

        1. I assure you, this has little or nothing to do with the way Trump words his tweets–not so much as it has to do with the facts behind them. If he worded the same message differently, the markets would have reacted the same.

          Leave out the word “order”, and nothing changes. Like I said initially, obsessing over the wording Trump’s tweets makes us indistinguishable from the anti-trade progressives in average people’s minds. They don’t support international trade so much as they oppose Trump. My support for international trade is about my support for capitalism. I’d support it regardless of whether Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders was for or against it. This article doesn’t really seem to be about trade at all. It doesn’t even mention the most pertinent facts. It’s just anti-Trump, and that’s a blown opportunity to talk about the bad impacts of trade restrictions on the economy.

        2. You assume way too much about how markets actually work. Most investment is now in index or quasi-index funds – where trading is irrelevant beyond balancing daily inflows and outflows. Most trading is now nano-trading – where the risk/time perspective is limited to however much risk there is in the time it takes for stocks to move from the bid to the ask and back. Virtually no one is thinking of ‘September’. The computers are ‘thinking’ of the next three minutes and the balance of buy/sell orders – and the real risk they run is the currency risk if they are using a carry trade to fund that market-making.

          The risk YOU run is that the buy/sell imbalance gets a tad bit bigger than they can fund in the carry trade, so they pull all their orders and the market gaps down 10% in one nanosecond because of lack of liquidity.

          And yeah – the wording of tweets will matter because it does lead to short term buy/sell imbalance – and the 10% gap down will lead to a ton of panic across all other markets. The longer the term people think they are likely to have to deal with those tweets, the more likely they are to just say Fuck this I’m out of this market.

          That hasn’t happened yet because the default monetary condition (absent the tweets but with near-zero cost of money) is the managed upward % of a % daily move. But again – the longer this thing drags out, the less likely that default remains the default.

          1. If you don’t think the indexes are responding to how market forces impact the underlying stocks, you’re nuts. Different components of the S&P 500 go up and down by different amounts–even in the same sectors–regardless of how much money flowed into or out of the stock market on any day.

            Over the short term (several seconds), the market typically values a stock based on the supply of shares available for sale (ask) and the number of shares demanded (bid). Over the long term, the market values stocks based on their expected earnings–rather than bids and asks. In between those extremes, it’s a mix of the two–depending on the unique situation of that company. And that’s regardless of whether the stock is in an index.

            If Caterpillar were dropped out of the S&P 500 on Monday, no doubt, its stock price would suffer as index funds dumped the stock–asks far exceeded bids. However, regardless of whether Caterpillar is in the S&P 500, its price would fluctuate based on the short term and long term criteria I pointed out above.

            To the extent that people sold Caterpillar’s stock yesterday, it was largely related to expectations for sales declines and cost increases related to trade with China. If it were not in the S&P 500, it would have been subjected to the same pressures for the same reasons with the same effect.

            Yeah, the program trading you’re talking about is largely confined to the short term considerations I was talking about–the next few seconds. As stock prices fluctuate over the day, the program traders are putting trades through between bids and asks faster than other people can react. Note, however, that if the Dow fell 600+ points yesterday–regardless of the fact that program trades aren’t considering the fundamentals–then stock prices are falling in response to news about fundamentals despite program trading.

            1. if the Dow fell 600+ points yesterday–regardless of the fact that program trades aren’t considering the fundamentals–then stock prices are falling in response to news about fundamentals despite program trading

              But that’s not really what happened. What really happened is that the Dow fell by 456 points in 11 minutes (10:58-11:09 ET) and then just drifted down for rest of day. Hmm. guess what happened during those exact minutes. Let’s see:
              10:57 – Trump bashes Fed
              10:57 – Trump calls both Fed and Xi enemy
              10:59 – china steals trillions and we don’t need them
              10:59 – hereby ordered
              10:59 – I’ll respond to tariffs this afternoon
              10:59 – ordering UPs/FedEx to refuse fentanyl
              stops tweeting for a couple hours until the ‘blame it on Moulton’ tweet

              And dollars to donuts, that same time is when every other market (bond, currency, stuff that has nothing to do with China) cracked too. IOW the major part of yesterdays move had nothing to do with some sober assessment of fundamentals.

              What happened IMO was head of algo desks heard ‘Trumps got some tweet diarrhea’ and pulled all bids/asks. No liquidity – market plunges. Plunge stops when stops trigger and those stops provide liquidity. Algos read tweets, wait a few minutes for the explosive diarrhea to clear (looks to me like they may even have a formal policy – when Trump has explosive diarrhea wait 10 minutes for the all clear), then turn on algos again.

              Now maybe the rest of the day was ‘fundamentals’. But I’ll bet the rest of the day was more – WTF just happened. Close all open positions. We ain’t going into the weekend with any of this shit open and risking whatever Asia might do before we open on Monday.

              1. If the tweet weren’t about the prospects of a trade deal with China, the market wouldn’t have given two fucks about the way it was worded, and if the tweet were worded differently, with the same information suggesting that negotiations had broken down, the market would have reacted the same way. The “fundamental” in this case is the prospect of negotiations–not the way the tweet was worded.

                Again, it didn’t matter how the message about Napoleon being defeated was worded. What mattered was the news that Napoleon had been defeated.

                People who are obsessing over the wording of Trump’s tweets are mostly just being silly in an election year.

                If the market were truly reacting to the wording of Trump’s tweets, rather than what they signify, we could make a killing as individual stocks inevitably rise or fall over time to reflect their fundamentals. We could take advantage of fund managers everywhere selling trillions in assets because Trump used the word “order” in his tweet like we were stealing candy from retards. That’s just a fantasy.

                1. The “fundamental” in this case is the prospect of negotiations–not the way the tweet was worded.

                  Well I could just as easily rephrase that as – the fundamental is that Trump is erratic and having a temper tantrum so negotiations aren’t going to happen. Or – the fundamental is that Trump just changed the American negotiating position and is now negotiating with American companies re their supply chains rather than the Chinese and their tariffs. In which case, the wording is important and ‘fundamental’ means anything you want it to mean and we are in the world of Humpty Dumpty.

                  You’re just making the usual BS excuses for your favorite poo flinging monkey.

                  1. Trumps tweets are correspondence from our highest elected government officer. They have the official seal and are archived and treated as such.

                    The office is very much about the pen and statements of our elected president. That is the bottom line and the buck stops there.

                    To think that the entire world should ignore those words is to make a mockery of the office and our entire government. The president needs to choose words carefully.

                    Then we have Donald trump.

                  2. Just agreeing with what you wrote jfree. There is no excuse for ignoring what the president says and does.

                    1. I don’t know who’s ignoring what the president says and does.

                      What his tweets signified in terms of the breakdown in trade talks shouldn’t be ignored.

                      People who focus on the way those tweets were worded are chasing their tails.

                    2. People who focus on the way those tweets were worded are chasing their tails.

                      hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

                      He did say they’d defend him of murder!

                  3. “You’re just making the usual BS excuses for your favorite poo flinging monkey.”

                    Yeah, that’s what you’re really talking about and why, but that isn’t what I’m doing.

                    I condemn this trade war like I always have, and I blame Trump for starting it and maintaining it–like I always have. The problem, however, is not the way he words his tweets. The problem is his policy, his strategy, his tariffs, and his beliefs.

                    The problem is not the way he words his tweets.

                    The people who are going after Trump for the way he words his tweets, mostly, don’t give a shit about free trade. They’re going after him for the way he words his tweets because they’re going after Trump–independent of his trade policy. That’s my point.

                    We have an opportunity to condemn Trump’s trade policy, here. Why are we screwing it up by chasing red herrings about the way he words his tweets? Part of the answer is because we’re heading into an election year, and another part of the answer is that people’s TDS is such that they focus on the way Trump’s words his tweets to the exclusion of legitimate criticism of his policies.

                    1. The problem is not the way he words his tweets.

                      The problem is that he tweets. Period. He is the anti-Coolidge. One of the first lessons a president has to learn is that every word he says weighs a ton

                      idk what his trade war strategy or end game really is. I’m not sure he knows what it is. Those who think he’s playing 4D chess don’t know what it is – and after a few contradictory tweets, it becomes apparent that what they are really arguing is what they hope Trump’s strategy might be rather than what it is.

                      I’m not sure what the point of arguing any of that stuff is. By this point, Trump should’ve learned ‘one of the first lessons of being Prez’ – and STFU more often.

  11. Just give up already.
    America is weak and dependent on China.
    Our economy can’t possibly ever recover from anything unless we give the ruling class and China whatever they want.

    1. INSTEAD OF FUCKING AMERICAN CONSUMERS?
      The market crash of 1929 … followed by the Great Depression … wa caused by WHAT?

      1. “INSTEAD OF FUCKING AMERICAN CONSUMERS?”

        What is this even referring to?

        1. TARIFFS, Trumptard

          1. You should re-read Nardz’s comment. You might realize your question was silly.

            1. No, he won’t, you can’t rationally deal with Hihn. Just antagonize him like I do. He deserves far worse.

  12. “The Dow is down 573 points perhaps on the news that Representative Seth Moulton, whoever that may be, has dropped out of the 2020 Presidential Race!”
    — President Donald Trump on why the market took a dive on Friday.

    Moulton’s response: “I’m glad he thinks I have more influence on the Dow than he does.”

      1. When even the >Washington Examiner reports Trump’s mental breakdowns … and even YOU can’t believe Trump is THAT insane ….
        https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-mockingly-links-dow-plummeting-to-moulton-dropping-out-of-presidential-race

        Facts vs hissy fits

        1. This is crazy even for you Hihn.

          1. FFS – Here’s the Orange Baboons tweet

            That tweet is a direct response (10 minutes later) to an appearance by Moulton on TV questioning Trump’s knowledge of basic economics re these trade tariffs as part of his announcement of dropping out of Prez race.

            We’ve got a thin-skinned narcissistic version of Chance the gardener as Prez.

            1. No, you just see it that way because YOU are a retard. Now fuck off.

    1. No no no. It’s because David Koch died.

    2. It was a fucking joke. As the headline of the very story you linked to below stated.

      1. the tweet was real. As was the fact that he tweeted it because he was watching TV at the time. Which is how he apparently spends 6 hrs/day with his ‘executive time’ – watching TV, tweeting about what he sees, and then watching the media reaction to his tweets on TV.

  13. POTUS cannot order private businesses out of other countries with a tweet. But an SO is another story. Should is more open to debate.

    1. EO not SO.

    2. Yeah, he’s not gonna make an executive order about this. That’s not how this works.

      1. You say that with a great deal of unwarranted confidence.

        1. My understanding of the difference between what Trump tweets and what he does is pretty good, but I don’t have TDS. I also don’t use socks.

      2. TRUMP said it was “hereby ordered” … so HUMILIATING … that you’ve now LIED about it eight times. So far.

        Trumpards FORCED to issue LAME excuses for Trump’s ERRATIC behavior..

        1. There’s no executive order telling anyone to issue any sort of excuses for Trump’s ERRATIC behavior you filthy animal.

      3. Actually Trump, as POTUS, could issue an EO declaring a National Emergency, and order US businesses out of China based upon the authority granted him by the IEEPA.

        https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/chapter-35

        Instead he chose to send a very clear signal to US businesses operating in China that he could do precisely that.

        Which is a shot across the bow to China, and a cue for all those businesses to begin developing contingency plans and/or taking actions now to mitigating any future disruptions. Because, if you are someone who might be affected by such future actions you simply cannot get caught flat footed if/when it happens.

        1. It’s prudent. And decoupling with China is not a bad idea. The regime is very evil.

          1. Not a decoupling, but divestment.

            Aren’t Democrats really big on divesting from countries they don’t approve?

        2. Which is a shot across the bow to China, and a cue for all those businesses to begin developing contingency plans and/or taking actions now to mitigating any future disruptions.

          That may be – but there is zero possibility that American businesses can make those contingency plans AND set them up (meaning actually set up two different supply chains) absent a really huge recession. And Trump really doesn’t need to issue an EO to create a ‘cue’ for anything since no one has any freaking clue what sort of contingency might be acceptable at this point. Is he calling for outright autarky and a closed economy? Is this just pure bluster aimed exclusively at China? There’s no way of knowing anything – until the next tweet. Which itself will only last until the following tweet.

          In practice, this sort of rule by tweet leads to shutting down all actual investment

    3. If he tweeted that everyone should eat more broccoli, would people here be freaking out that federal troops are going to hold them down and shove broccoli down their throats?

      1. I do not like broccoli. And I haven’t liked it since I was a little kid and my mother made me eat it. And I’m President of the United States and I’m not going to eat any more broccoli.

        George HW Bush

        My feelings exactly about the whole broccoli issue.

  14. Trump puts the bully in bully pulpit!

  15. The fact of the matter is that nobody wins a trade war, . . .

    Maybe not, but that doesn’t mean everybody loses at the same rate. In general, if two nations are in a trade war, and they both lose X $billion per month, how do you tell which one is winning? Probably the one with the larger population, because it is paying less per-capita for the cost of the war.

    Trump has it wrong. The U.S., with it’s world-leading per-capita riches, is probably the most vulnerable country on earth in a trade war. Every other nation on earth would probably find it easy to win a trade war with the U.S. We are going to lose, because we have the most to lose.

    1. Actually, larger per capital riches means we can absorb more losses. A large population, with low per capital riches has very little room to maneuver. Especially when aforesaid country is a totalitarian state that has been buying off it’s people’s complacency with an ever growing economy. However, that economy has been contracting for awhile, the premier is a Mao want to be who seems intent on returning to the Cultural Revolution and is dealing with a very rebellious province. The old strategy of building infrastructure to help stimulate domestic markets is failing because China already has way to much useless infrastructure (but lacks needed infrastructure in many areas because those provinces are less favorable). China has already spent billions this year bailing out numerous banks (and continues to do so), now they are having to bail out the manufacturing. Xi knows he can’t win but he is hoping to Outlast Trump. Keep the pressure up and hope the economic pain causes Trump to lose re-election then he hopes the Democrats will be more willing to end the trade war on his terms. If it is Warren, I doubt he’ll get his wish, as she is even more protectionist then Trump.

      1. I’ve maintained that the US has been in a trade war with China for 2 decades only we were pretending we weren’t. China has never been a fair trading partner.

        1. It’s true. China has never seen any other nation as an actual partner…just a vassal state that hasn’t yet realized its vassal status. Their trade policy since opening up has been about one thing…selling us the rope to hang ourselves by destroying our manufacturing sector in key industries (particularly steel), and generating enough capital to modernize their military so they can take us on in a violent conflict.

          This was never a long-term arrangement on their part…they’ve been aggressively expanding because they see us as a rival they need to take out to achieve their “One World Under China” ambitions. Trump’s putting a stop to it, because he would rather we have a trade war with them than an actual shooting war (which has been on the horizon for awhile).

          1. There are no long term arrangements or gentlemanly understandings. If Krupp in Germany builds more steel mills and goes after customers buying from USS that is perfectly fair trade.

            Bob’s auto parts has been selling Jim’s spark plugs and has a solid customer base who come specifically to buy those. Jim comes to Bob and tells him that if he doesn’t also stock his new line of brake pads he is going to have to raise the price of spark plugs to make up for his investment in the brake pad factory. Is that fair trade?Yes it is.

        2. There is no such thing as a fair trading partner. In any business your competition wants to destroy you. Your suppliers want to get as much profit from you as they can. Your customers want to get what they want as cheaply as possible. Your employees want to take every dime they can get with as little effort as possible.

          Free markets are a wonderful thing and it is all based on competition.

      2. “Actually, larger per capital riches means we can absorb more losses. ”

        As soon as you figure out the difference between ‘then’ and ‘than’ you should consider trying out for Trump’s press secretary. Americans are keen on hearing about their ability to absorb more loses than China.

      3. larger per capital riches means we can absorb more losses.

        In the battle of cutting off one’s nose to spite the face, Cyrano de Bergerac and Pinocchio will win

    2. I would have thought that the country which relies most on trading with the other country is the one which loses most. In this case it is absolutely China. There is a massive trade imbalance and China sells billions more to America than the reverse. America can survive losing trade with China, but I highly doubt China the reverse as evidenced by the massive downturn in China’s economy. Since American companies which manufacture in China and then sell their goods back to Americans will be dramatically hit by these tariffs as well, it is quite likely that they will consider moving their operations back to America. This is likely one o0f Trump’s primary aims in this trade war. What America loses in sales to China will probably be offset by companies returning to America. This will see a shift in jobs from farming to manufacturing. This is unfortunate for the farmer but good news for manufacturing jobs. Until the farmers find an alternative market for their produce or China gives in, Trump should subsidise the income of these farmers since they are collateral damage of the trade war. I see no problem with this.

      1. There is a massive trade imbalance and China sells billions more to America than the reverse.

        For which they get … dollars. What do they do with them.?

        Almost entirely, they buy our debt. We don’t save near enough to finance our government’s debt …. which Trump has already increased by a record amount … already more than Obama after 8 years.

        So he’s skyrocketing the debt, and also crippling the largest investor in it. The deficit is down with China, but increasing overall. That’s another FAIL.

        His immigration is just as ignorant. We’ve had a negative fertility rate for about 10 years. That means our population would be DECLINING … without immigrants. So he’s screwing our children and grandchildren on FICA taxes.

        His “qualified” immigration SOUNDS cool to his goobers — just college graduates — but ignores the labor market! We have TOO MANY college graduates … working a

        1. We have TO MANY college graduates … not too few. It’s WELL known, to the INFORMED that millions of millennials are living with their parents, well into their 20s, and longer.

          This President destroys everything he touches — just like all his business failures, a bull in the china shop, crashing into everything.

      2. No, no, no – there is no way US companies could possibly replace China as a location for supply/manufacturing with another location.
        On the other hand, it is super easy for China to replace the US market with another one!

        1. Yeah, all they need is another market as large as the U.S.
          Which does not exist anywhere on the planet.

          They’ve been replacing China for years, except the high-tech products.

  16. Trade wars are easy to win…

    Taxes imposed on US citizens, while being lied about by those imposing

    Further taxes imposed on US citizens

    Totalitarian anti-freedom order to citizens

    No progress in trade war

    A real libertarian hero we can all get behind

    1. And the alternative is? That can actually plausibly win.

      1. If you can’t plausibly win, find another game to play. How about building a big beautiful wall and having Mexico pay for it. Should be a cake walk.

        1. Or cleansing the country of progressives.

      2. There is no winning only degrees of losing in any kind of war.

        Now Trump the chosen one, has threatened an executive order to force companies to stop doing business in China. He is no different than Xi or any other authoritarian dictator, actually worse even China has not threatened to go that far.

        This is not a negotiation, it is madness.

        1. Which should libertarians prefer?

          Government raising revenue by imposing taxes on the income of all people who contribute to domestic production?

          Or government raising revenue by imposing taxes on only those people who purchase international products?

          No, I’m not saying that Trumps tariffs are intended to be a significant source of government revenue. I’m saying that any talk about ‘winning or losing’ trade wars is something of a canard when viewed in the context of all costs of production.

          They are all taxes, so they are all some degree of a loss.

          1. Libertarias are not stupid enough to think those are the only options Both options are … ignorant. I’ll go slowly

            China ALLOWS their companies to commit various trade abuses.
            The actual abuses are committed by manufacturers and/or exporters. See it NOW?

            Ban THOSE companies! DUH. And/or suspend their banking privileges.
            1) No taxes on anybody.
            2) No fascist orders on OUR companies.
            3) Punish the ACTUAL violators. And ONLY them.

            Trump keeps trying to be “tough” — instead of smart. Which is why he’s had so many failures.

            Tariffs are for pussies, and economic illiterates.
            CRIPPLE the ABUSERS.

            Any questions?

          2. It is a false dichotomy. The government is not raising revenue. There is money going to the treasury but offset by subsidies to farmers and loss of revenue from US businesses affected by the tariffs and retaliatory tariffs.

            If they want to raise taxes as alternatives to income tax you could have a value added tax, a payroll tax, or could raise import duties across the board I suppose. Those would be spread out and would not have the consequences we are seeing now.

            Or they could just cut spending. Yeah right.

            1. The government is not raising revenue

              That’s what he said.

              If they want to raise taxes as alternatives to income tax you could have a value added tax, a payroll tax,

              That’s the opposite of what he said.

              Those would be spread out and would not have the consequences we are seeing now.

              That ignores what he said.

              Tariffs are the DUMBEST way to address China’s trade abuses. It is companies creating the abuses, so just bar their products from the U.S., and/or remove their banking privileges (where significant to each company).

              Trump, the absolute worst President EVER on deficits, and barely better than Obama (if at all) on economic growth, clearly doesn’t give a crap about debt. He’s even babbling about another crazy tax cut!

              He’s done. Dead in the water. The major remaining concern is that his tiny ego might cause a major crash, or an actual war. Hell, Macron just kicked his ass again.

            2. It’s not a false dichotomy, because there is no dichotomy. They are taxes. All of which represent a diminution of liberty.

              “If they want to raise taxes as alternatives to income tax you could have a value added tax, a payroll tax, or could raise import duties across the board I suppose.”

              So, a punch in the gut instead of one to the kisser? We already have payroll taxes, which Chinese manufacturers do not have to pay. You want to increase that advantage?

              I clearly noted this is not about revenue, it’s about preferential behaviors. What in the world makes you think a VAT would somehow be less onerous than tariffs?

              1. I clearly noted this is not about revenue, it’s about preferential behaviors.

                I caught that! Yours was easily the more libertarian argument, except the most effective “cure” for the abuses requires no taxes at all. On anyone.

              2. I have to agree with that. The only point I was trying to make was that a VAT is less market distorting.

  17. Here is where it is really getting bizarre. US businesses complain, rightfully so, because Chinese companies are violating copyright and patents. They want to do business in China. That is the whole point. They just want the laws there to be tightened and enforced and trade barriers lifted so they can do more. Who wouldn’t want that market.

    There is no such thing as “our” IP or copyrights. Those are owned by the individual companies.

    Then Trump orders US business out of China altogether.

    Huh? What they wanted in the first place was MORE business.

    1. Bar imports from the IP and copyright offenders. No taxes. No damage. ALL punishment on the offenders ONLY. THAT is how the President of the world’s largest economy uses power …. instead of being a pussy.

      A trade deficit with China is GOOD, as long as the GOP is debt crazy. We’re the reserve currency, so the deficit is US dollars to China … who then buys our … DEBT. They already hold enough debt to destroy our dollar, if Trump becomes too big a threat to them. Their government has $26 TRILLION in assets, and holds roughly $ 3 trillion of our government’s debt.

      Many in Chinese media have argued, for years, to destroy the dollar and lose all $3 trillion of their US government debt. They’d still have a positive asset value, and wipe out their only major trade competitor. The only thing stopping them, most seem to agree, is that our markets are their biggest export customers.

      Oh yeah, our trade deficit is now smaller … with China … but larger overall!

      1. China can’t destroy the dollar because they can’t destroy the store of value backing it; our economy. Unless they literally invade our country or nuke us, nobody is stopping the US from producing value in the world.

        Any sort of currency or debt schemes will simply result in the fed correcting it. The only way you could stop them is military force and nobody realistically has a chance of invading the mainland.

        Now you know why politicians don’t give a fuck about the debt and why we’ve had central banking for hundreds of years. Trade is a weapon like any other and independent monetary policy allows you to adjust for it.

        1. China can’t destroy the dollar because they can’t destroy the store of value backing it; our economy.

          1) Their government has over $20 trillion POSITIVE asset value, nearly as much as the entire market value of the NYSE
          2) We have over $20 trillion in debt … plus more promised from the very worst President ever on debt.

          Unless they literally invade our country or nuke us, nobody is stopping the US from producing value in the world.

          Repeat: They already hold enough debt to destroy our dollar. Having tons of factories has nothing to do with the value of a currency.

          Any sort of currency or debt schemes will simply result in the fed correcting it.

          Solve the collapse of the dollar with …. hyper-inflation!

          Now you know why politicians don’t give a fuck about the debt and why we’ve had central banking for hundreds of years.

          The two are not related. And you don’t know what central banking is.

          Trade is a weapon like any other and independent monetary policy allows you to adjust for it.

          And don’t know what “independent monetary policy” is. Combined with the notion that hyper-inflation is the way to repair a crippled currency.

    2. Those are owned by the individual companies.

      By what title? Who enforces that title?

      I somewhat agree with your other sentiments but this (selective?) oversight demonstrates an exceedingly flawed understanding.

      1. There is no such thing as “our” IP or copyrights. Those are owned by the individual companies.

        By what title? Who enforces that title?

        Trademarks, copyrights and patents are enforced by the federal government.

        but this (selective?) oversight demonstrates an exceedingly flawed understanding.

        There is no “title” to owning intellectual property … no deeds. Do you own any clothing? Where are the titles registered?

  18. Anyway. My music link that nobody else cares about. All of this politics is exhausting. Asia has been in the news.

    So it made me think of this great song to smooth over the week. Gonna kick back with some cheap red wine. Pick the substance of your choice and close your eyes.

    Just a few comments. I like drums this is Steve Gadd perhaps the greatest studio drummer ever and you can hear why. The sax solo is jazz great Wayne Shorter. Story is he had to be talked into playing on this track.

    Aja – Steely Dan

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fG2seugAgnU

    1. Kewl. Tempo reminds of iRikki Don’t Lose That Number in several places, then goes … mellower. Much.

      Thanks! I was snacking on spring rolls, but …

  19. Glad you liked it.

    The space between the notes. Never noticed the rhythm similar to Riki before. Thanks.

  20. Threats like this are hardly impotent. Businesses are already adjusting, same as they’ve done for every political risk since time immemorial.

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