Justin Amash

Unlike President Donald Trump, Justin Amash Actually Fights Against FISA Surveillance Abuse

The most absurd attack against the Michigan congressman involves ignoring his entire history in office.

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The first time the libertarian-leaning Rep. Justin Amash (R–Mich.) got attention here at Reason was when he was first running for Congress in 2010. Amash was then serving in the state legislature, and Katherine Mangu-Ward took note of his record of explaining each of his votes on Facebook. He continued that practive after he took his seat in Washington, particularly on what might be seen as "controversial" votes or votes where he bucked the majority.

Amash's generally fearless transparency has made it easy for voters to track his libertarian record. It also helps explain why his Twitter-thread ruminations that President Donald Trump should potentially face impeachment hearings are so detailed and thorough.

Because Amash has been so transparent, we also know how thorough he has been in fighting for Americans' right to be protected from unwarranted federal surveillance, and how this has put him at odds with intelligence officers, with the leaders of both major political parties, and with both Barack Obama's and Donald Trump's administrations.

Bizarrely, some who are upset that Amash won't support Trump are now attempting to attack him for being weak on surveillance issues. This is absolutely baffling for anybody who knows that Amash has regularly tried to use his position as a lawmaker to scale back the government's powers in both the PATRIOT Act and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Amendments (FISA) to secretly snoop on American citizens.

At Amash's town hall on Monday, one upset woman identified herself as a former Amash volunteer, claimed to have voted for him in every election since 2010, and said she'd recently changed her position on him. She was obviously very upset at Amash for his position on impeaching Trump. After expressing her anger for a few minutes, she asked him, "Why did you say nothing about the FISA abuses? If you care about the constitution so much, why didn't you say anything about the yearlong violation of the Fourth Amendment rights of Trump and his entire transition team?" This apparently prompted Amash to laugh off-camera, and that made her even angrier, because she took it to mean that he doesn't care about the issue. She then insisted that he "didn't speak about it once."

Nor was this just one woman at one town hall meeting. This has emerged as a talking point among the president's defenders, with Trump's campaign manager tweeting out this doozy yesterday:

For somebody who claims to have been an Amash supporter up until these past two years, the lady at the town hall seemed awfully unfamiliar with his record.

Amash responded to the woman by recounting his record on the issue and telling her that Trumpist invocations of FISA abuse are "just an excuse" to try to grab onto anything that might defend Trump from accusations of misconduct. As people who are familiar with Amash's reputation know, Trump and the White House have actively and loudly fought the congressman's efforts to restrain the FBI's and NSA's authority to snoop on Americans. (This whole exchange can be watched on the video posted here, starting at about one hour, 16 minutes in.)

Amash explained to the crowd that when Section 702 of the FISA amendments was up for renewal under Trump, Amash offered up an amendment to try to stop its use against Americans. Section 702 is intended to allow the federal government to spy on foreign targets overseas without having to get a warrant, overseen by the secretive FISA court. But Section 702's authorities have habitually been applied to secretly surveil Americans as well, for crimes that have nothing to do with terrorism or national security.

Despite all of Trump's complaints about surveillance, despite all his claims that the government had illegally spied on him, the White House threatened a veto. Trump ultimately signed a law that expanded the government's ability to spy on Americans.

Right now, even as we hear these claims that Amash doesn't care about FISA abuse, he's trying to pass legislation that will permanently end the authority for the National Security Agency (NSA) and FBI to collect and access the telephone records of American citizens without getting warrants. This is the program originally exposed by Edward Snowden. Amash, joined by the likes of Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) and Rep. Thomas Massie (R–Ky.), has been fighting to stop this collection for years, since well before Trump was even a candidate.

But sources within White House say the Trump administration wants to keep these authorities intact, even as the NSA itself is now recommending an end to these practices.

It's brazen how much Trump and those in his orbit care only about the Fourth Amendment and FISA to the extent that it can be used to protect Trump. None of these people, including Trump, give one single damn about restraining government surveillance.

NEXT: New Hampshire Just Abolished the Death Penalty

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  1. It doesn’t matter what Justin Amash does.

    1. he’s going to run for president.

      1. That doesn’t matter either.

        1. It gives reason another excuse to not cover all the Libertarian-ish things Trump has done in 2.5 years as President.

          1. Trump couldn’t hold Amash’s jock strap anent doing “Libertarian-ish things.”

            1. I would love to see a comparison list of Libertarian-ish things accomplished by both persons.

            2. LC admitted in another thread that he would vote for Trump over Amash. A bold move from someone who calls himself a libertarian.

              I’m beginning to think he might be a parody account.

              1. Amash is for impeaching the best president in over 80 years for nothing.

                Amash is the parody.

                Great thing about being a Libertarian that you would not know anything about Leo: We have our principles that we will not surrender easily or ever. We also live in a nation where there are no Libertarians being elected as President.

                Someone will fill the void of offices if Libertarians wont step up and serve in government and do the nasty. I choose Trump over Amash because of Trump’s record of Libertarian-ish accomplishments. Amash votes “no” on a bunch of laws that pass. I would rather have a person like Trump who fights Socialists and can get Lefties to cut some of the bloated government.

                Since Amash is NOT Libertarian and Trump is NOT Libertarian, I am being pragmatic and picking a great President.

                1. Keep carrying that water. It’s noble work that you’re doing.

                  1. Yup, Libertarianism supporting Rule of Law from people like you is noble work.

                  2. What special things has Amash done that makes him so special?

                    1. Shut the fuck up, Lonewhacko!

                    2. Awww I’m sorry you’re upset because you supported an imbecile and I made fun of you for it.

                    3. If that’s what you think I’m doing, I’m sorry your brain doesn’t work very well.
                      You are just a troll. I don’t take it personally. Though sometimes I do let you bait me, which I’m not terribly proud of.

                    4. It’s obvious to everyone that it is what you’re doing.

                      But please, protest more player queen.

                2. Leo prefers words to actual actions apparently. Btw leo, you’re supporting fisa abuse by thinking trump should be impeached, or do you not understand that?

                  1. I don’t think Trump should be impeached. I’ve said that on Reason multiple times.

                    In fact Amash doesn’t think Trump should be impeached for anything that was found as part of a FISA warrant. Obstruction and collusion are not the same things.

                    1. Collusion is not a crime.

                      “Obstruction” of an sham investigation by the boss of the prosecutors is not illegal either.

                      Otherwise, every District Attorney who steers assistant district attorneys is guilty of obstruction. You bet your ass they dont want that to be the definition.

                      The Executive power of the United State of America is vested with the President. Congress formed the DOJ as part of the Executive Branch, so the DOJ reports to the President as does as he orders unless it violates constitutional law.

                      Congress can appoint a special investigator at any time to investigate Executive misdeeds and impeach any time they want. That is the extend of that relevant Legislative Branch powers.

                    2. First… you cant obstruct when the constitution gives you the power to do something.

                      Second… obstruction, if you buy into muellers version of it, only occurs from the fallout of an illegal investigation predicated on 702 abuse.

                      You can not separate the two.

                3. You seem like more of a Constitutionalist than a libertarian. As far as I can tell, you are fine with pretty much any government action that is constitutional. Which is a lot better than most any politician, but the constitution isn’t a purely libertarian document.

                  1. Except for slavery, the Constitution is a very Libertarian founding document.

                    Its why the Founders were Classic Liberals and not Libertarians. Classical Liberals made the concession to form the USA with slavery coming under federal regulation in 1808. Some hoped to end slavery then.

                    As a Libertarian, I cannot allow slavery of free peoples.

                    As it stands now, the Constitution is pretty Libertarian.

                    Lucky for us, Anarchism is NOT Libertarianism.

                    1. Libertarianism is very principled but tiny and limited government still gets some power.

                      Its a necessary evil and must be strictly controlled. The US Constitution is very suited for that purpose.

              2. Amash is supporting the political prosecution and impeachment originating under fisa abuse.

              3. “LC admitted in another thread that he would vote for Trump over Amash. A bold move from someone who calls himself a libertarian.”

                And here you reveal you’re just another “TEAM!!! ” idiot.

                1. Do you think Trump is more or less libertarian than Amash?

                  1. I think Trump has accomplished and will accomplish more good than Amash has accomplished or would accomplish as president. Their personal political leanings are essentially unimportant, though if it makes you feel any better, Trump is obviously less tried-and-true libertarian than Amash.

                    The fact of the matter is, Trump is the catalyst for the illumination of the deep state and the complete collapse of the DNC. What has Amash done, beyond talk a lot and vote against bills that passed anyways?

            3. Trump reduced the regulatory state. When did Amash? Failed votes dont count.

              1. When did Trump before he was elected President? Why even have elections? Just declare Trump king because he’s done a few good things!

                1. Try being coherent, there’s no reason to fall apart just because your narrative has.

                2. Amash has been there for how many years? Words over actions, the fake way to be a libertarian.

                  1. What should a ‘real’ libertarian in the House have done?

                    1. More than just show votes. Even Ted Cruz actually ran some in person filibusters.

                      Are you actually now advocating for someone you think was completely powerless in the House?

                    2. More than just show votes.

                      Great. Like what? What would Trump have done in the House?

                      Are you actually now advocating for someone you think was completely powerless in the House?

                      I’m sure you have no idea.

              2. And how was a lone congressman going to do that? He’s done what the powers of his office allow him to do. As has Trump. Both with mixed results.

                1. And trump has done what he did, which exactly resulted in decreased regulatory states.

                  The best reason could come up with was trump signing a comprehensive bill with the 702 when the amendment failed. Believe the bill passed with supermajorities or near supermajority anyways so trump wasnt even needed on it.

                  But the fact is the Russian hysteria started with 702 unmasking of Flynn then further used on page and possibly up to 3 others on trumps campaign.

                  It’s one thing to say you are against 702 in a show vote you know wont pass and another to be for fruit of the rotten tree planted in 702 abuses. If Amash reallynhad convictions which side do you think he would be on?

                2. “And how was a lone congressman going to do that? ”

                  Build a coalition instead of uselessly grandstand.

                3. Amash could present articles of impeachment for one.

                  If Amash really thinks that Trump should be impeached, do it.

                  Since we know Amash is full of shit on this one, of course reason is carrying the water.

              3. Trump reduced the regulatory state.

                He did?

                1. What do you call cutting 16k jobs from the regulatory state?

                  We get it. You hate Trump. Don’t let it make you stupid.

                  1. I know this is difficult for you to understand, but it was an honest question because I didn’t know.

                    What do you call cutting 16k jobs from the regulatory state?

                    It’s something, but only if it truly reduces the regulatory burden on people. And is he the one responsible? Was it by his design that it was reduced? Again, these are honest questions. Don’t let your impotent rage cloud your thoughts.

                    He still hasn’t caught up to that super-libertarian-ish president Bill Clinton.

                    We get it. You hate Trump. Don’t let it make you stupid.

                    I don’t hate Trump, but I’m not going to kid myself into thinking that he’s some kind of libertarian in disguise. But you’re definitely a conservative Republican who’s obviously madly in love with this man because he tells you all the things your rage-filled brain(?) wants to hear.

                    1. Clinton is also a free trade advocate unlike the Con Man.

                      Bill Clinton also left a budget surplus for the GOP to fuck up. The Con Man is rapidly increasing spending and the deficit during a 10 year economic boom.

                    2. PB, Clinton was dragged into all that by Newt Gingrich. It was their budget. He did have the good sense to go along with it.p, but it’s still really all republican accomplishments when you get down to it.

                      Oh, and go ahead and kill yourself you fucking kiddie raping buggerer of schoolboys.

                  2. What do you call cutting 16k jobs from the regulatory state?

                    An almost .01% cut?

                    1. Again, the president is bound by congressional expenditures. The ussc has stated he can not be derelict and not fulfill the functions Congress (wow, amash’s realm again) has authorized the executive to do.

                      Trump can not just refuse to do anauthorized duty. He has trimmed where he could. Again I ask, do you understand how our government works?

                      If you want reduced regulatory state in a grand scale it required Congress (weird, we keep getting back to Amash’s realm). Limewose much of the reduction trump has attempted has been held up in courts because Congress (God damn it, how do we keep ending up in Amash’s realm?!?!) refuses to impeach district courts that overstep their bounds with injunctions.

                      So has trump reduced regulatory scope? Yes. That is the answer. He also pushed through reduction in taxes. He has pushed for reorganizations where he can (see attempts to move the USDA outside of DC). But in other places he has been stopped by career officials or by lack of action in Congress.

                      You claim to fear an unbound executive, yet seem to want to give trump ultimate powers for him to refuse to use so you can trash him.

                    2. Again, the president is bound by congressional expenditures.

                      I see. So when something libertarian-ish happens, Trump alone is to be credited with it, whereas when something un-libertarian happens it’s only because Trump’s hands are tied by that evil Congress, which is a despotism under the absolute control of Justin Amash. Got it.

                      Again I ask, do you understand how our government works?

                      Physician, heal thyself.

                      You claim to fear an unbound executive, yet seem to want to give trump ultimate powers for him to refuse to use so you can trash him.

                      This from the guy who screams bloody murder at even a hint of criticism of his favorite Strong Man. I never advocated giving him unlimited powers. I pointed out that he hasn’t actually accomplished the miracles you attribute to him.

                2. Yes. Next question?

              4. Yes, reducing onerous regulations has been Trump’s greatest accomplishment & while he may not have taken on the FISA courts, but, Trump did end the NSA’s Mega Data Collection!

                https://www.creators.com/read/dick-morris/03/19/trumps-nsa-ends-metadata-collection

            4. Libertymike
              May.30.2019 at 1:00 pm
              “Trump couldn’t hold Amash’s jock strap anent doing “Libertarian-ish things.””

              1) DeVos
              2) Gorsuch
              3) Kavanuagh
              4) Ajit Pai, end net price fixing
              5) Major reduction in the growth of regulations.
              6) Dow +35%
              7) Unemployment at 3.0% (!)
              8) The US Manufacturing Index soared to a 33 year high
              9) Got repeal of the national medical insurance mandate.
              10) Withdrawal from Paris climate agreement.
              11) Not sure about the tax reform; any “reform” that leaves me subisdizing Musk’s customers is not what I hoped for. Let Musk run a company for once. But cutting taxes is good.
              12) Pulled support for the $13 billion Hudson Tunnel project.
              13) More than 16,000 jobs have been cut from the federal leviathan
              14) MIGHT have a deal to de-nuke NK.
              15) Killed monbeam’s choo-choo
              16) Supported and singed First Step Act.
              And finally:
              17) Still making lefties steppin and fetchin like their pants is on fire and their asses are catchin’

              Your turn. Put up or shut up.

              1. Amash has some show votes. So he has that. Oh and support for impeachment predicated on multiple abuses of the 702. But his show vote negates that one I guess.

                1. Amash has a decent record of going against bloated government.

                  I also suspect that the media is taking one boned headed move by Amash with talk of impeachment and running with more than Amash cares it to.

                  1. They are show votes until he can build a coalition.

                  2. But, Mash-head intentionally put impeachment out there to get attention & maybe garner some votes from the Leftys too!
                    Pure politics!….But, this phony is also in bed with China!

              2. How about this? Maybe we should be glad for the decent things Trump has done, and that there is someone like Amash in congress who at least represents the case for smaller government.
                I don’t know if he’s full of shit on his comments about potential impeachment or not, so I’m not commenting on that here.

                1. Get out of here with that kumbaya nonsense, hippy.

              3. 1) DeVos
                2) Gorsuch
                3) Kavanuagh
                4) Ajit Pai, end net price fixing
                5) Major reduction in the growth of regulations.
                6) Dow +35%
                7) Unemployment at 3.0% (!)
                8) The US Manufacturing Index soared to a 33 year high
                9) Got repeal of the national medical insurance mandate.
                10) Withdrawal from Paris climate agreement.
                11) Not sure about the tax reform; any “reform” that leaves me subisdizing Musk’s customers is not what I hoped for. Let Musk run a company for once. But cutting taxes is good.
                12) Pulled support for the $13 billion Hudson Tunnel project.
                13) More than 16,000 jobs have been cut from the federal leviathan
                14) MIGHT have a deal to de-nuke NK.
                15) Killed monbeam’s choo-choo
                16) Supported and singed First Step Act.
                And finally:
                17) Still making lefties steppin and fetchin like their pants is on fire and their asses are catchin’

                1) ✔️, but she hasn’t really done much
                2) ✔️✔️
                3) X
                4) ✔️-ish
                5) Major reduction in growth…meh, ok, I guess, if true.
                6) Not sure how that’s libertarian-ish, unless it’s purely from the tax cuts. Hard to pin down.
                7) Good, but again not sure how that’s libertarian-ish. You can make a case that it’s because of the tax cuts and if so, then ok, I guess that’s -ish.
                8) Same thing as 6 and 7.
                9) ✔️
                10) ✔️
                11) ✔️
                12) ✔️
                13) ✔️, if true
                14) Not gonna happen, but points for trying.
                15) ✔️, if he actually killed it
                16) ✔️
                17) Nothing particularly libertarian-ish about this. It’s his way of keeping his conservative voting base amped up.

                But, thanks for reminding me of a few more libertarian-ish things he’s gotten done, but nominating Kavman simply isn’t one of them.

                1. “…but nominating Kavman simply isn’t one of them.”

                  Compared to Amash’s forelock tugging during the process?
                  Sorry, I’m not arguing ‘the best possible’; I’m arguing ‘the best we can hope for’, and especially with regard to the claim that ‘Trump can’t hold Amash’s jock strap’.

                  1. We could Have hoped for better than Kavanaugh. I’m sure he’s better than a Clinton nominee would be but that’s not saying much.
                    Not saying he’s terrible (or that he’s good, I haven’t really formed much of an opinion yet), but he seems like typical Republican appointee, not anything special. Gorsuch actually seems to be quite good.

                2. It’s his way of keeping his conservative voting base amped up.

                  Which in turn presents a significant danger to actual libertarianism, given that this is largely the “round-up-the-lefties-and-put-them-in-camps” crowd.

              4. Also ended NSA’s Mega Data Collection

            5. Amash has done nothing except talk about “libertarianish things”.

            6. “Trump couldn’t hold Amash’s jock strap anent doing “Libertarian-ish things.”

              There is one thing Trump is better at Amash on, and it makes all the difference.

              Trump is better at winning single member districts than Amash–and thereby Trump can deprive Democrats of taking the White House and using it as a springboard to inflict the Green New Deal and Medicare for All on the American people. These are threats that we haven’t seen for decades.

              The problem with Amash is that if he ran as a libertarian, the better he did, the more likely he would be help put an authoritarian socialist in the White House.

              That’s the end of the conversation for me. If Amash isn’t about to beat whatever authoritarian socialist the Democrats nominate for 2020 (and he’s not), then he’s hurting the cause of libertarian capitalism and helping the cause of authoritarian socialism.

              Oh, and anyone who isn’t willing to vote for Trump to stop the Democrats from implementing authoritarian socialism isn’t being principled. At best, they’re just being stupid. Good intentions don’t count for shit either. If Amash’s intentions and the intentions of his supporters are good, then their good intentions are objectively pro-authoritarian socialism.

              1. I don’t think people really grok what the Democrats are running on in terms of the Green New Deal. If you haven’t really looked at it, for goodness’ sake, please take a look. Over a ten year period, the Green New Deal would implement the following:

                1) “Guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States.”

                2) “Providing all people of the United States with – (i) high-quality health care; (ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing; (iii) economic security; and (iv) access to clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and nature.”

                3) “Providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States.”

                4) “Meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the United States through clean, renewable, and zero-emission energy sources.”

                5) “Repairing and upgrading the infrastructure in the United States, including . . . by eliminating pollution and greenhouse gas emissions as much as technologically feasible.”

                6) “Building or upgrading to energy-efficient, distributed, and ‘smart’ power grids, and working to ensure affordable access to electricity.”

                7) “Upgrading all existing buildings in the United States and building new buildings to achieve maximal energy efficiency, water efficiency, safety, affordability, comfort, and durability, including through electrification.”

                8) “Overhauling transportation systems in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector as much as is technologically feasible, including through investment in – (i) zero-emission vehicle infrastructure and manufacturing; (ii) clean, affordable, and accessible public transportation; and (iii) high-speed rail.”

                9) “Spurring massive growth in clean manufacturing in the United States and removing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from manufacturing and industry as much as is technologically feasible.”

                10) “Working collaboratively with farmers and ranchers in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the agricultural sector as much as is technologically feasible.”

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_New_Deal#Green_New_Deal_Resolution

                Any libertarian capitalist who wouldn’t vote for Trump to prevent someone from getting into the White House who’s campaigned on some flavor of that might as well be an authoritarian socialist.

                Any libertarian who would hand the the White House to authoritarian socialists because of their unwillingness to yields on their supposedly capitalist principles is a fucking retard.

          2. I can think of maybe three. There’s the tax cuts. He pulled out of the Paris Climate Agreement. He started the ball slowly rolling on criminal justice reform and hopefully the ball continues to roll, but it’s slow. I’m having real trouble coming up with anything else. Meanwhile, he’s strenuously pushing for a border wall and draconian immigration enforcement and invoking national emergency executive powers to do so. He’s unilaterally, dubiously using those national emergency powers, put up tariffs left and right and then bailed out farmers that got hurt by them. He sent cruise missiles into Syria. He banned bumps stocks. His FDA cracked down on vaping. I mean, he’s been a stopped clock and gotten a couple things right here or there. The rest of the time he’s doing things and trying to do things that no one would call libertarian or even -ish.

            1. Meanwhile, he’s strenuously pushing for a border wall and draconian immigration enforcement and invoking national emergency executive powers to do so. He’s unilaterally, dubiously using those national emergency powers, put up tariffs left and right and then bailed out farmers that got hurt by them. He sent cruise missiles into Syria. He banned bumps stocks. His FDA cracked down on vaping.

              But he did those things in the name of Liberty.

              1. What’s draconian about 1 million illegal immigrants coming into the country this year alone?

                My God you fainting daisies.

                1. My God you fainting daisies.

                  Spoken like a true libertarian.

                  “You don’t have the stomach for what is necessary.”
                  -Jesse the Libertarian

                  1. Most of you have no concept, let alone the guts to admit what needs to happen. And it isn’t pretty.

            2. Deregulation is probably the most important thing Trump has done. Trump fought hard to get rid of ObamaCare completely through congress, but since Congress failed, he did his best to minimize that damage, as well.

              Trump is a pragmatist, and despite all the ridiculous things you read here at Reason, that means he worked with Putin to defeat ISIS–and that means we avoided invading Syria. Hillary Clinton would not and could not have accomplished that with Putin. She’d much rather invade Syria than work with the likes of Putin and the vicious murderers that run Saudi Arabia. That’s why neocons like McCain and Hillary hated Trump so much–because of his pragmatism.

              Like with Syria, I think it’s important to remember, too, all the other things Trump didn’t do. Trump was about as good at respecting the states on recreational marijuana. That’s much better than Obama’s record, where he raided medical marijuana in California alone hundreds of times. I don’t see any reason to suspect Hillary Clinton would have done better and good reason to suspect she might have done worse. Remember when her husband executed a retard to prove that he was tough on crime? Yeah, well Hillary Clinton doesn’t think we should be free to enjoy large sugary soft drinks. Why would anybody trust her on the drug war?

              Oh, something else Trump should be congratulated for that Hillary (and pretty much any Democrat in the field would have been inferior on) was in the wake of Vegas shooting. Trump may or may not have done something about bump-stocks, but Hillary Clinton campaigned on banning assault weapons, etc. In the wake of the Vegas shooting, I don’t see any reason to believe that she wouldn’t have come after our Second Amendment rights. I don’t see a good reason to believe that anyone on the Democrat side will be better than Trump on that count either.

              Other than that, I can hardly think of any good reasons why a libertarian might vote for Trump in 2020. Well, I can think of plenty of others, but how many more reasons do we really need? Aren’t those pretty persuasive?

            3. Ordering of 2 regulation cuts per new one implemented. Undoing of Obama’s title VII and title IX. Attempted to undo DACA. Fired top members of the VA scandal, undone by federal work rules put in place by Congress. Ordered departments to find 10% cuts to their budget (will know if this comes to fruition or not). Swung the balance on the 9th circuit and other judicial circuits. Gutted Warren’s regulatory monster.

              There’s more but remember that Congress delayed most of his nominations by a year; federal work rules require a year buildup with judges stopping any rule they dislike on the most minor of technicalities or even invented technicalities.

            4. You are right, he is a very mixed bag!

              But, you left out by far the best thing he has done: a profound reduction of onerous regulations for businesses…..By far the most Libertarian thing he has done & even more than the tax cuts, they have driven the economy & low unemployment!

    2. Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.

    3. Look, I like what Amash has done and I really like what Trump has done and is doing.. and I don’t think it is too unreasonable to expect them to be able to work together. It is therefore counterproductive for Amash to endorse impeachment when he (and every Democrat including Pelosi) knows full well it is an exercise in futility. He made a mistake by giving it a verbal OK and the negative blow-back that he justly deserves is proof. It is ridiculous that he had to have a townhall concentrating on some stupid thing he said, instead of his good works, but I’ll bet his office has also been completely distracted from their work as well. Let’s hope he has learned not to take the bait going forward.

  2. Because Amash has been so transparent, we also know how thorough he has been in fighting for Americans’ right to be protected from unwarranted federal surveillance, and how this has put him at odds with intelligence officers, with the leaders of both major political parties, and with both Barack Obama’s and Donald Trump’s administrations.

    It’s unfortunate he was elected two years after FISA worries had gone way, way out of fashion in the media.

  3. Justin Amash’s Voting Records

    If only the media covered what Trump is or is not doing involving the FISA powers.

    I don’t think Trump is a huge fan of the FISA system since it helped in the attempted coup of his Presidency.

    1. If he is not a fan, why hasn’t he insisted upon an outright abrogation of the Patriot Act? Elimination of the FISA court? Abolishing the FBI, CIA, and NSA?

      1. Congress has to repeal those laws that created the FISA court, FBI, CIA, NSA and Patriot Act related violations of the Constitution.

        The President could certainly use his Executive power to curtail activities under all the aforementioned agencies and the Patriot Act. Maybe he has.

        The media thinks Trump is a poopy-head and refuses to do in depth reporting on Trump’s strategy to cut government power. The media is focused on why Trump hates the crew of the USS McCain.

        1. Well he could try. Everytime he does some district court undoes his actions.

          1. Paul Ryan should have been working around the clock to impeach kook lefty judges and pass Trump’s agenda. Instead he kissed away two years we will never get back.

            And I see nothing impressive about Amash. The last two weeks show him to be more of a petty idiot than someone actually interested in moving a libertarian agenda forward.

            Fuck him.

          2. Really? Trump has tried to curtail the activities of those agencies LC listed? When was that?
            And, according to this article, Trump actively opposed attempts to change the law so they could less easily spy on Americans.

            We should absolutely be glad and acknowledge the good stuff Trump does. We should also be merciless in criticizing the bad stuff.

            1. Yes. He has he has put in new appointees in there with mandates to clean up the agencies. He is often hampered by career, not political, appointees whom he cant fire because Congress refuses to relax federal regulations on employee staffing and removals.

              Do you know how the government actually works?

              1. Do you know how the government actually works?

                Given your lack of understanding of the difference between criminal and civil actions, I would hesitate to be as cocky on this subject as you are.

              2. Keep in mind that in the waning days of the Obama presidency, after Hillary lost, there was a hasty program of converting as many mid level Obama appointees to civil servants who cannot be fired, as possible. Assume every one of these individuals is a subversive secretly loyal to, and snare ring to Obama’s shadow government.

                That doesn’t help Trump get anything done.

            2. What we get is nonstop criticizing of good stuff by Trump.

              Hence the label TDS being attached to those that deserve it. They know what they are doing to deserve it.

      2. Who moved the rock?

    2. He could abuse it the same way the democrats did, and I’m sure he would dig up a hell of a lot more dirt. I can’t help but laugh at the thought of democrats screaming into the sky about Treason when Trump does the exact same thing as Obama.

      When you dream of utopia you miss the stuff right in front of your nose

      1. Lefties are still in shock that there are so many dissenters out there.

        They would say over and over, how the culture war was over and they won.

    3. I don’t think Trump is a huge fan of the FISA system since it helped in the attempted coup of his Presidency.

      That’s precisely the point.

      He isn’t a fan of the fact it was used against him, and then during his signing of the Section 702 reauthorization he bragged that it wasn’t the section “abused” to go after him.

      Just signed 702 Bill to reauthorize foreign intelligence collection. This is NOT the same FISA law that was so wrongly abused during the election. I will always do the right thing for our country and put the safety of the American people first!

      1. So Trump cut a part of the FISA scheme that was used against him?

        More than most politicians, mentioned on reason, have done.

        Funny how Trump gets all the blame but none of the credit.

        He’s one guy.

        Most of the FISA and Patriot Act are unconstitutional as they involve domestic spying without warrants in violation of the 4A or omit Due Process and Equal Protection rights.

        Trump is bad on these positions, bump stocks, closing Gitmo, and not bringing home troops like he said he would. To be fair, Trump announced troops withdrawals and most politicians freaked out. Trump has also been a little preoccupied surviving an ongoing coup attempt. I am amazed he got done as much as he has.

        1. So Trump cut a part of the FISA scheme that was used against him?

          No he just moaned and groaned about that.

          But he did expand a part of the FISA scheme that he so nobly told us wasn’t used against him, just other Americans.

        2. Trump has also been a little preoccupied surviving an ongoing coup attempt. I am amazed he got done as much as he has.

          He hasn’t been too preoccupied to raise tariffs.

            1. You caught me. I’m obviously a Tony sock.

              1. You might as well be.

          1. Which got China, Mexico, Canada, and the EU to talk about lowering trade restrictions after they refused to do it at the G-7 Summit.

            1. China might be talking about lower tariffs, but their actions don’t follow.

              1. China lowers tariffs on computers, bikes, other goods
                08 Apr 2019 07:17PM
                (Updated: 08 Apr 2019 07:20PM)

                https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/china-lower-tariffs-us-trade-war-bikes-computers-goods-11423300

                1. From 15% to 13%. Wow.

                  announced it will lower tariffs…

                  Have they yet?

                  1. I guess you ignored the link just below then.

                    1. That also says “announced” and “will cut.” It also says “…most products will still be subject to the retaliatory tariffs until there is a breakthrough in the ongoing talks.”

                      So, still not sure if they actually cut anything or if anything they cut or promised to cut is anything meaningful.

                  2. “From 15% to 13%. Wow.”

                    Move those goalposts.

                    1. What goalpost?

                      And you’re impressed by a cut from 15 to 13? Really?

                    2. “And you’re impressed by a cut from 15 to 13? Really?”

                      I know, you really wanted it to rise from 15 to 330, right?
                      The ‘goal post’ was lower tariffs; now you seem to want to specify the amounts.

              2. China Cuts Tariffs on More Than 700 Goods Amid Open-Trade Drive
                Bloomberg News
                December 24, 2018, 1:27 AM EST

                https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-12-24/china-cuts-tariffs-on-more-than-700-goods-amid-open-trade-drive

                You were saying.

                1. Thanks for the link, that’s good. I was only aware of the retaliatory increases from China.

                  U.S. exports will get the benefit of the reductions as well, although most products will still be subject to the retaliatory tariffs until there is a breakthrough in the ongoing talks.

                  Oh.

        3. The worst thing Trump has done is NOT cutting spending at all…Actually, he has outspent Obummy & that ain’t easy to do!

      2. Leo… honest question… did Amashs amendment on 702 fail or pass? Did the bill trump signed only involve the 702 program? Blaming trump is isolation is completely ignorant. It was Congress who squashed the amendment. Not trump. He signed a bill of many functions, not one. Saying Amash is against 702 and trump is for it is beyond a simplification of reality.

        1. Saying Trump is for something that he bragged about signing on Twitter is unfair?

          I don’t know if it passed by a 2/3 majority or not, but Trump could have vetoed the bill and demanded the 702 amendment before signing. It’s fair to hold a President accountable to signing bloated bills that is in-part unconstitutional. That would be an actual libertarian-ish thing to do, to borrow a term.

          1. Signing unconstitutional bills is not Libertarian-ish.

            Now if only other people will admit some other things Trump does are Libertarian-ish.

      3. Leo… honest question… did Amashs amendment on 702 fail or pass? Did the bill trump signed only involve the 702 program? Blaming trump is isolation is completely ignorant. It was Congress who squashed the amendment. Not trump. He signed a bill of many functions, not one. Saying Amash is against 702 and trump is for it is beyond a simplification of reality.

        1. Jesse, Jesse…….. don’t you understand Leo’s position!

          ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!!!!!!

          1. ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!!!!!!

            Can you explain why that’s worse than ORANGE MAN GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!

            1. To you? Why would anyone want to waste their time making you cry like that?

              1. No, I wasn’t expecting an adult answer and you didn’t disappoint.

                1. “I wasn’t expecting an adult answer”

                  At least you’ve finally come to grips with what people think of you.

            2. $park¥ is the Worst
              May.30.2019 at 2:29 pm
              “ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!!!!!!
              Can you explain why that’s worse than ORANGE MAN GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!”

              Yeah, hardly anyone is claiming that, while the scumbag TDS crowd is all about personality.
              See the list above, scumbag TDS victim and respond to it.

              1. hardly anyone is claiming that

                I’ll grant you that all the commenters in this thread screaming about Trump’s awesomeness does add up to “hardly anyone.”

                See the list above, scumbag TDS victim and respond to it.

                I’m afraid you have me mistaken for someone else.

                1. $park¥ is the Worst
                  May.30.2019 at 3:58 pm
                  “I’ll grant you that all the commenters in this thread screaming about Trump’s awesomeness does add up to “hardly anyone.””
                  I’ll grant that you are imbecilic enough to think that finding his actions are good is ‘screaming about Trump’s awesomeness”, since you’re widely known as a fucking ignoramus.

                  “See the list above, scumbag TDS victim and respond to it.
                  I’m afraid you have me mistaken for someone else.”
                  Nope, we got your number when you walked in the door; your stink preceded you.

                  1. finding his actions are good is ‘screaming about Trump’s awesomeness”

                    Finding his actions bad = “ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!!!!!”
                    But don’t dare say that the opposite is also true, I guess.

                    since you’re widely known as a fucking ignoramus.

                    Coming from you I take that as a compliment. I suspect your ridiculous constant anger is due to being an Alabama peckerwood stuck in San Francisco. You are allowed to move, you know.

                    1. $park¥ is the Worst
                      May.30.2019 at 4:30 pm
                      “Finding his actions bad = “ORANGE MAN BAD!!!!!!!!”
                      But don’t dare say that the opposite is also true, I guess.”
                      You bet! Doing all that stuff in that list is BAD! I hope the TDSs is fatal in your case; the world will be better off.

                      “since you’re widely known as a fucking ignoramus.”
                      Coming from you I take that as a compliment. I suspect your ridiculous constant anger is due to being an Alabama peckerwood stuck in San Francisco. You are allowed to move, you know.”
                      Coming from ass-sucking infantile ignoramus with TDS? My goodness, how good you make me feel!
                      Fuck off and die.

            3. Because Trump is just about the only weapon we have in DC against the totalitarian deep state and global socialism.
              Because the enemies of the people and individual liberty are putting all the energy they can muster into brainwashing you and everybody else to believe “orange man bad”

              1. Because the enemies of the people and individual liberty are putting all the energy they can muster into brainwashing you and everybody else to believe “orange man bad”

                And so to fight that supposed brainwashing, you’ve decided to go with “orange man good.”

                1. No, he is better then we expected and a hell of a lot better than the alternative. He also is better then you are giving him credit for. Is he great? No, but he is far better than we have seen in many years.

            4. Because Sparky, I’m not doing that. No one here is. But there are lots of commenters and many of the writers here that are personally invested in tearing Trump down no matter what.

              Whereas the rest of us see some level of positive accomplishments. Not everything o ever wanted out of a president, but at least some actions in the right direction.

          2. Trump has done some good things. Trump has done some bad things. I can admit that.

            1. Trump has done some good things. Trump has done some bad things.

              This is really the only rational position, but there are like three people in the country who won’t automatically attack you from one direction or the other for saying this.

              1. Agreed.

                As for Sevo’s list:

                (1) Mrs. Amway has not matriculated the football down the field an inch closer to mothballing the Education department. She doesn’t even advocate for its abolishment. Thus, fail.

                (2) Gorsuch. Amash does not get to nominate judges. Nevertheless, if one promises to drain the swamp, you do not nominate a judge who has an Ivy pedigree and who has fed at the public trough most of his adult life. Characterizing such a nomination as “libertarian” is cognitive dissonance.

                When Gorsuch unambiguously opines that no state actor is ever entitled to immunity, get back to me.

                When Gorsuch unequivocally opines that the Patriot Act, en toto, is repugnant to our founding values and must be struck down, get back to me.

                1. (3) Kavanaugh. Another swamp creature who is proving that he is not about to wield his pen in service to wiping out the warfare / welfare state.

                  What is it with Trump’s mendacity on draining the swamp. Kavanaugh is the ultimate creepy swampy swamp creature.

                  (4) The dot indian? Please, another swamp creature who I do not hear demanding that the FCC be abolished. Ivy pedigree and lots of swamp time.

                  (5) Major reduction in the growth of regulations. Okay, reducing the growth of regulations is not a bad thing, but Amash has pushed for far more. Why should someone get a libertarian cookie for merely slowing the growth of regulations?

                  Bigger picture: Under Orange Man, the federal leviathan continues to grow – witness increase in size of budget, deficit, and federal register.

                  1. (6) The Dow? Really, the price of 30 publicly traded companies, almost all of which have been cucked, and are PC nightmares, somehow is a barometer of Orange Man’s libertarian bona fides?

                    Most of the Dow increase has been attributed to just a handful of companies, and a lot of that has been accomplished through stock buy-backs.

                    1. (7) Unemployment? If you want to rely upon government numbers, why not look at the U-6 number? Its 6.9%.

                      Moreover, the real unemployment rate is much higher than the U-6 level of 6.9%

                      The labor force participation rate fell to 62.80%. A truly roaring economy would not have such a dismal labor force participation rate.

                    2. Agree on every point.

                      I’ve been saying for years that a pair of dice would make a more libertarian president than any we’ve had in 80+ years at least. That doesn’t mean that the pair of dice we elected is a libertarian.

                      Nos. 1, 2, 4 and 5 are better than we would have had under an HRC presidency, I’ll acknowledge. I don’t see how Kavanaugh can be defended from a libertarian perspective. He was treated poorly, yes, but that doesn’t make him pro-liberty. The guy is about as swampy as they come.

                      And yes – pumping up the Dow is more indicative of successful cronyism than of any true dedication to free enterprise (and the Dow has been a little shaky of late to be using as an example of resounding success, anyway).

                2. OK, let’s take L apart as the lying POS he is:
                  “(1) Mrs. Amway has not matriculated the football down the field an inch closer to mothballing the Education department. She doesn’t even advocate for its abolishment. Thus, fail.”
                  Fucking idiot seems to have missed the dead halt of TitleIX; POS fail

                  “(2) Gorsuch. Amash does not get to nominate judges. Nevertheless, if one promises to drain the swamp, you do not nominate a judge who has an Ivy pedigree and who has fed at the public trough most of his adult life. Characterizing such a nomination as “libertarian” is cognitive dissonance. ”
                  So a degree from a certain school is BAD? POS fail second time, loser

                  “(3) Kavanaugh. Another swamp creature who is proving that he is not about to wield his pen in service to wiping out the warfare / welfare state. ”
                  Poor, poor, POS loser; bullshit claims is all you got.

                  “(4) The dot indian? Please, another swamp creature who I do not hear demanding that the FCC be abolished. Ivy pedigree and lots of swamp time.”
                  Yeah, the one who prevented price fixing.
                  What is it with fucking losers fixating on degrees? Is it because that’s the best lying POSs can do? I’d say yes.

                  “(5) Major reduction in the growth of regulations. Okay, reducing the growth of regulations is not a bad thing, but Amash has pushed for far more. Why should someone get a libertarian cookie for merely slowing the growth of regulations? ”
                  Because it’s true, POS.

                  “(6) The Dow? Really, the price of 30 publicly traded companies, almost all of which have been cucked, and are PC nightmares, somehow is a barometer of Orange Man’s libertarian bona fides?”
                  Strange how Trump was supposed to demolish the value of the market, and somehow the market is thriving.
                  Keep grasping those straws, POS

                  “(7) Unemployment? If you want to rely upon government numbers, why not look at the U-6 number? Its 6.9%.”
                  POS now wants to change the rules. Lame.
                  Fuck off, loser

  4. >>>he’s trying to pass legislation that will permanently end the authority

    Sisyphus on line 2 …

    1. Heh

    2. Is Amash trying?
      If so, he’s an abysmal failure.
      But it’s also possible that he’s 2 faced piece of trash

      1. yeah i’m too cynical anymore to be jumpy about attempted-(L)

        i appreciate the three guys up there playing Not-(R) for their whatever symbolic attempts they make, but three guys over my lifetime isn’t going to amount to change in the Elite system we’re stuck in now. party-affiliation is a sham.

  5. Just consider Trump’s record as a badge-licker and a narcissist and it’s clear that Trump believes the only bad cops in the entire country are the ones who went directly after him. Amash isn’t specifically calling to restrict the power of those who went after Trump, he’s calling for a general restriction of all the intelligence agencies’ power and it’s absurd to think that anyone other than Trump might be the target of improper attention from the authorities.

    And on a related note, it’s absurd that Trump is criticizing Biden for Biden’s support for harsher penalties that have so adversely affected poor minorities – as if nobody knows about Trump taking out the ads in the New York papers regarding the Central Park “wilding” gang and the fact that even after the group was completely exonerated, Trump still insisted they were guilty and called the city’s payments to the wrongfully convicted a disgrace.

    Hmmm…which I guess also makes it absurd for Trump to be whining and crying about people who insist he’s guilty even after he’s been completely exonerated. At least they’re not taking out ads calling for the death penalty for him.

    1. Being against FISA abuses in general, but not minding them when the victim is somebody you don’t like, is no better than not being against them in general, but at least trying to expose them when you ARE the victim.

      Indeed, as a practical matter Trump is likely to accomplish more to rein in FISA abuses than Amash is, because even if his motives are self-interested, he’s in a position to actually DO SOMETHING. And is doing something very significant: Exposing that HIS warrant was improperly obtained will help clean up the system, maybe make reform feasible. While all Amash’s noble amendments go nowhere.

      Isn’t a standard of libertarian thought that more good is accomplished by self-interest than good motives?

      “the Central Park “wilding” gang and the fact that even after the group was completely exonerated”

      The only thing they were actually exonerated of was the rape. Nothing else. Not the assault, not assaulting other people that night. Just the rape itself.

  6. >>>Because Amash has been so transparent

    JC he’s a congressman they don’t do transparent. stop trusting the government agent.

    1. Amash has a good voting record in the House. He voted “no” on a lot of bills. Many passed anyway.

      Trump got Nancy Pelosi, one of the most powerful Democrats around, to give him border wall money after she refused to do it.

      Trump got Canada, Mexico, the EU, and China to discuss lowering their trade restriction after they said that they would never do it.

      Trump has refused to start new wars and add more than a few thousands troops to overseas military commitments. Against the wishes of many politicians and military brass.

  7. Unlike Justin Amash, President Donald Trump has appointed 2 Supreme Court justices, 41 Court of Appeals judges, and 69 District Court judges.

    Imagine all of those spots being held by Hillary Clinton appointees.

    1. They know all the good accomplishments by Trump.

      Amash is attacking Trump and that is what the Lefties praise until it become inconvenient to do so.

      Just ask James Comey.

    2. Now imagine all those spots – and many more – being held by Justin Amash appointees. Like John Bolton’s spot, Gina Haspel’s spot and Alexander Acosta’s spot. Otherwise, you might very well point out, entirely factually, that Barack Obama was a more libertarian President than Justin Amash.

      1. How the hell could anyone imagine a Justin Amash appointee?
        What is there to go on but “hope” for “change”?
        So far as we can tell, his ideal judge would be the same type as the guy who signed off on and renewed clearly bogus FISA warrants

        1. So far as we can tell, his ideal judge would be the same type as the guy who signed off on and renewed clearly bogus FISA warrants

          So you’re comparing the guy who wants to scale back wholesale FISA’s authority regarding Americans with the guy who only wants to scale it back as regards himself and think that the former would be more likely to support someone who would sign bogus warrants? You think Trump would be less likely to go for a bogus FISA warrant against Elizabeth Warren?

          Why do you think that?

          1. And Elizabeth Warren wants to make poor people’s lives better too.
            Totally trustworthy.
            Enjoy voting D

          2. So you’re comparing the guy who wants to scale back wholesale FISA’s authority regarding Americans with the guy who only wants to scale it back as regards himself and think that the former would be more likely to support someone who would sign bogus warrants?

            Ignore the FISA aspect of this issue… actually, you know what, don’t ignore it if you like. Assume it’s just a means to an end or a pretext. That means there is or was a massive Nixon/J. Edgar Hoover-esque shitshow going on and Amash’s endorsement of the outcome against Trump seems to suggest that he’s OK with that. Like he’s totally OK signing a bogus warrant against an opposition candidate as long as it wasn’t based on a/the *foreign* spying program.

      2. Now imagine all those spots – and many more – being held by Justin Amash appointees.

        First I would have to imagine Justin Amash winning a Presidential election. I’m having trouble with that part.

        1. First I would have to imagine Justin Amash winning a Presidential election.

          That’s the real thing. He’s too young to be pulling the trigger on this. Eight years from now, maybe, but he’s still going to be pretty young even then.

          If he runs on the LP ticket and is as successful as Johnson, his political career is probably over.

          Rand is a better hope, even though he’s less libertarian than Amash.

    3. now i can’t un-imagine it.

  8. And yet Amash supports process crimes based on no criminal findings of an investigation started with abuse of FISA. Explain this again please.

    1. That’s gonna leave a mark.

      1. Agreed. I like Amash. If he runs for president as a libertarian, I expect I’ll vote for him. That said, I’d be much happier with him if he were more upset about the illegal acts (including FISA abuse) used as a pretext for spying on the Trump campaign and launching and sustaining the Mueller investigation than about Trump’s abortive attempts to thwart the illegitimate investigation. If Amash was pairing his ‘impeachable offenses’ comments with full-throated demands to get to the bottom of who did what and when, starting with the absurd, bogus, politically-motivated dossier, then I’d be much more on board. In this case, his priorities seem offbase.

  9. “Unlike President Donald Trump, Justin Amash Actually Fights Against FISA Surveillance Abuse”

    No he postures and votes when it doesn’t matter, and finds excuses when it does.

    “The most absurd attack against the Michigan congressman involves ignoring his entire history in office.”

    He’s been an abject fucking failure. No one is ignoring that.

    1. I’d rather a libertarian-ish abject failure than a progressive Democrat or big government Republican any day. Any libertarian in congress is going to be a failure if he sticks at all close to principle.

      1. But he didn’t. He stuck to principle as long as it never mattered, and he knew it had no political consequence. How that isn’t obvious, as much as his motivation for this turn, baffles me.

        1. I honestly don’t know enough about Amash to respond intelligently to your claims.
          But I’m saying that whether he is exactly what you say, or if he’s more principled than that, he still would be a failure if the standard for success is getting bills passed.

          1. I would say that passing a bunch of legislative bills is generally not in the spirit of Libertarianism. Tiny and limited government and all. The more bills passed, the bigger government tends to get.

            Amash has a good record of voting against “bad” laws.

          2. What proposals of Amash to repeal laws have there been?
            What did he do to further those ends?
            How hard has he tried?

  10. So Amash dismisses the dubious FISA procedures in this case because it distracts from Congressman Ahab harpooning Moby Trump.

    Amash’s history on the issue just makes it more incongruous that he is letting it slide.

  11. Another day, another let’s promote anyone but Trump for 2020.
    Do Warren next!

    1. They seem pretty committed to Gayor Pete…
      Who apparently pissed off his in laws by making up stories of their bigotry

    2. Snoop Dogg

      With Kim Kardashian as VP

      Dogg/Kardashian 2020!

      I could go with that.

      1. President Camacho!

  12. Have you meet justin amash’s fan/worship/sycophant/crush account? They pretend to call themselves, “Reason.”

  13. Amash is doing what all politicians do: he is doing whatever it takes to get reelected. Apparently, in his district, some libertarian policies combined with TDS are a winning strategy. Don’t pretend that this is a principled stance.

    I might hold my nose and vote for the guy, depending on what the alternatives are, but I consider Amash a statist and authoritarian on many issues.

  14. […] Unlike President Donald Trump, Justin Amash Actually Fights Against FISA Surveillance Abuse – Reason Trump Unlike President Donald Trump, Justin Amash Actually Fights Against FISA Surveillance Abuse  Reason […]

  15. “just an excuse”

    Fuck you. It’s the heart of the matter. The elites didn’t want an outsider and didn’t want any Republican looking at the mess that was the Obama DOJ, so they made up shit in order to spy on Trump.

    Amash is a self-serving prick and that lady was right about him.

    1. Are all the Trump associates currently serving time in prison doing so under false pretenses?

      We have got a big problem.

      1. Exactly how many are actually serving time in prison? And what exactly were they charged with? How many Clinton associates have served time in prison? Shall we compare the number and charges?

        1. Tony doesn’t care about that. Facts and context are always trumped by ‘it’s ok when we do it’.

        2. Be my guest. Compare away.

    2. The elites didn’t want an outsider and didn’t want any Republican looking at the mess that was the Obama DOJ, so they made up shit in order to spy on Trump.

      It is possible for this to be true at the same time that it’s possible that Trump has no principles, is a terrible president, and can not in any real sense be called a ‘libertarian.’

      1. I’m not defending Trump other than stating that he and his campaign were illegally spied on – and that spying revealed absolutely no wrong-doing. A couple of his guys – Flynn and Papadopoulos – were entrapped by the FBI on bullshit charges. But Amash still wants impeachment so he can make a name for himself with retards like this site’s writers.

  16. Which is strange because one would think Trump would fight FISA abuse given it was used against him.

  17. “Unlike President Donald Trump, Justin Amash Actually Fights Against FISA Surveillance Abuse”

    Unlike pretty much every other politician, Justin Amash Actually Fights Against FISA Surveillance Abuse

  18. Bizarrely, some who are upset that Amash won’t support Trump are now attempting to attack him

    Not “bizarre” if you’ve been around this personality cult’s echo chamber for any length of time. When you attack POO*, you attack their very manhood, not to mention the concept of white nationalism so dear to so many of the “contributors.”

    *President Orange Obstruction

    1. I didn’t vote for Trump last time.

      Thanks to bigots and racists like you, next time I probably will.

      1. Orange isn’t a race, and white nationalism is racism.

        1. Not necessarily.

          And that you think this it’s perhaps not.

        2. Where and when has Trump been promoting white nationalism?

          1. Dog whistles.

          2. For seriously?

        3. white nationalism is racism.

          So? Any kind of nationalism, including anti-nationalism fits within the ridiculously vague definition of racism. At this point (and for a while), racism has little to do with someone or anyone’s actual race and more accurately describes “things they/I don’t like”.

          1. White nationalism. It’s right there in the name.

  19. Show of hands. Can you be a libertarian and think Trump is not the most beautiful, intelligent, freedom-loving being ever to grace the cosmos with his divine presence?

    1. I can be a libertarian and believe that Trump is better than the available alternatives on the ballot.

      1. So is libertarianism defined as being incurably stupid?

        1. Tony
          May.30.2019 at 5:56 pm
          “So is libertarianism defined as being incurably stupid?”

          No, that would be your imbecilic posts, shitstain.

    2. Yes, Trump is not me.

    3. Given the alternatives, he’s miles above everyone else.

      Have you seen the creeps and psychos on the Democrat ticket?

      Harris in particular is one crazy idiot.

    4. Trump is a vain, vulgar weirdo with plenty not to like about his policies. But it can always be worse and people have lost their damn minds when it comes to they guy.

  20. “It’s brazen how much Trump and those in his orbit care only about the Fourth Amendment and FISA to the extent that it can be used to protect Trump.”

    Trump: I’m super pissed FISA abuse was used against me, but I’m not going to limit its powers.

    Amash: I’m super pissed Trump won’t limit FISA powers, but I don’t care that FISA abuse was used against Trump.

    If only it were possible to care about both the FISA abuses used against Trump and reducing FISA powers. It’s a damn shame Scott, like Trump and Amash, can’t hold both ideas in his head at the same time bc it sure seems like the former makes an excellent case for the latter.

    1. Good point Norm. This was another poorly thought out Reason article. I am far from a Trump supporter but Amash is full of it on the impeachment thing and the FISA abuse against the Trump campaign should worry every American whether they like or hate Trump.

      First they came for the narcissistic, billionaire that loved to tweet mean stuff and was a bit orange, and I did not speak out because I thought he was a blow hard.

      Wake up people.

  21. But what is he doing about applying the NAP to the government?

  22. […] associate editor Scott Shackford argued in his pro-Amash article that the Congressman’s failed legislative endeavors and lip service against the surveillance […]

  23. If Amash thinks Trump should be impeached, he should put on his big boy pants and submit articles of impeachment.

    Until then, he’s just a blowhard who by *his own standards* is betraying the Constitution and the American people.

    1. y’all gonna skewer him like shish tawouk.

      It is already happening.

  24. The whole purpose of the FISA abuses in this case was to take Trump down. More generally, one of the purposes of the unlibertarian FISA is to give the powers to the deep state to take a president (or other elected officials or anyone) down. By supporting the impeachment, Amash is complicit in deep state crimes.

    1. By supporting the impeachment, Amash is complicit in deep state crimes.

      At the very least he’s taking the principled stance that what Nixon (and Obama) actually did was better or more acceptable than what Trump didn’t do or may/may not have done.

  25. The Libertarian party is a group of losers that could never get Amash elected President. I’ll go for libertarian leaning Republicans every time. That is Amashs miscalculation.

  26. Amash keeps descending further into retardation. Bringing up the FISA courts with regards to Trump isn’t an “excuse.” It’s potentially literal treason that needs to be investigated.

  27. […] surveillance reforms in an administration that, despite all its screaming about snooping, has resisted any scaling back of domestic surveillance and has, in fact, expanded […]

  28. […] questionable FISA warrant that started the whole Russian-collusion investigation: He has led an effort to reform the warrant-granting process, making it harder for “spying” to occur on Americans. […]

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