At Trump Tampa Rally, QAnon Conspiracists Abound as President Claims You Need ID to Buy Groceries: Reason Roundup

Plus: A new kind of mining town comes to Texas and why "the 3D printed gun issue is a First Amendment issue."

Paul Hennessy/Polaris/Newscom; Chris Urso/ZUMA Press/Newscom

You got papers to purchase that banana, ma'am? Speaking at a rally in Florida yesterday, President Donald Trump tried to drum up support for voter identification laws by making a little comparison. If you have to show identification "to buy groceries," said the president, why shouldn't you have to show identification in order to vote?

Of course, Americans aren't (yet) required to prove their citizenship, identity, or anything else before purchasing food. As Peter Suderman points out, Trump's ignorance on this fact kinda makes previous presidential privilege gaffes look quaint.

The Tuesday-night rally in Tampa also served as a coming out party for "QAnon" believers. This is the group, seeded on forums like 8chan, that is convinced that a federal agent named "Q" has been feeding them dirt on all sorts of Deep State shenanigans: an international pedophilic sex-trafficking ring, a Hillary Clinton/George Soros coup plot, the Rothschilds' satanic cult, etc. Trump is supposedly aware of all this and in the midst of his own counter-plans.

QAnon supporters "were front and center at the Florida State Fairgrounds Expo Hall, where Trump came to stump for Republican candidates," reports The Washington Post. "As the president spoke, a sign rose from the audience. 'We are Q,' it read. Another poster displayed text arranged in a 'Q' pattern: 'Where we go one we go all.'"

The letter Q also showed up prominently on rally goers t-shirts and in their tweets, as did references to the murdered DNC staffer Seth Rich. (I poured through a few pages of Tampa rally photos on Newscom, to make sure this wasn't just a couple of folks getting blown out of proportion, and I spotted distinct QAnon paraphernalia throughout photos of different parts of the crowd.)

The QAnon believers were a relatively small but (deliberately) conspicuous contingent at the rally, as was a small group of protesters (the Washington Examiner reports that there were three) who had gotten inside. The few pictures I could find show a woman in a head scarf engaged in some sort of shouting match with a man in a cowboy hat, and then others, as a woman in a Trump cap takes a selfie with the fracas in the background.

Chris Urso/ZUMA Press/Newscom

"One person, and tomorrow the headlines will be, 'Massive protests,'" Trump said as the protesters were esecorted out. (So far, no such headlines have materialized.)

In case you're curious, here's how Trump's perennial-punching-bag CNN described the "rowdy" rally:

"It's a lot easier to act presidential than to do what I do. Anybody can act presidential!" Trump declared, before tottering across the stage in a parody of a presidential walk, mocking the Oval Office conventions he has shredded since his inauguration, and admitting he likes to be a "little wild, have a little fun" at rallies.

It was an anarchical moment that highlighted the comedy that is an underestimated ingredient of Trump's demagogic technique. It helps bind him to supporters who feel bitter about Washington institutions they believe have cast them cruelly aside. But it was also a flash of self-awareness by an idiosyncratic politician who intimately understands his own method as one of the great political entertainers, whose skill at fanning resentments is fundamental to his appeal for a large chunk of voters.

FREE MINDS

Y'all understand that the 3D printed gun issue is a First Amendment issue and not Second Amendment one, right?

Unless you want to ban the Anarchist's Cookbook and other 'dangerous literature', you might want to rethink your position.

— Jonathan Blanks (@BlanksSlate) August 1, 2018

More on the 3D-printed gun debacle here.

FREE MARKETS

A new kind of mining town comes to Texas.

QUICK HITS

BIG: Michigan's Supreme Court will allow an anti-gerrymandering measure on the ballot. State GOP/Chamber of Commerce had fought hard to keep it off. https://t.co/qTuhAsGPSe

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) August 1, 2018

• A federal judge has ordered federal immigration agents to stop forcibly drugging migrant children.
• The word Russia apparently wasn't spoken once as the trial of Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign manager and frenemy of Russian oligarchs, got started yesterday.
• "Decades of fearmongering almost got porn addiction added to the International Classification of Diseases," notes Slate. "Thankfully, the World Health Organization got it right."

Senate Dems are calling out the Trump administration for approving the online publication of 3D gun blueprints so that people can print guns at home.

"Why buy them if you can print them at home instead?" Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) said. "This is Trump's chance to stand up to the NRA" pic.twitter.com/qbkMrR8YWG

— Marianna Sotomayor (@MariannaNBCNews) July 31, 2018

• Why the gun industry isn't worried about 3D-printed firearms.
• According to the Washington Post's Fact Checker database, Trump has made "an average of nearly 7.6 [misleading or false] claims a day" since taking office.

ketchup packets are the new straws https://t.co/lTHe7FGkNF

— Elizabeth Nolan Brown (@ENBrown) August 1, 2018

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

You got papers to purchase that banana, ma'am?

Why do you always have to make it sexual?

[Rich]

"They're in my purse."

[loveconstitution1789]

Sloppy purses are bad places to hide ID anyway.

[Aloysious]

"Don't be shovin' no banana in my tailpipe, man."

/Eddie Murphy

[Mongo]

It's monkey food, plain and simple.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A federal judge has ordered federal immigration agents to stop forcibly drugging migrant children.

American brats, on the other hand...

[Leo Kovalensky II]

For some reason I read this as beats, as in the sausage. I shouldn't have skipped breakfast.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

ugh... brats

[Fist of Etiquette]

I was hoping you meant beets and there was a new kind of vegan sausage out there for me to make fun of.

[loveconstitution1789]

brauts?

[bevis the lumberjack]

Wait, I thought that the migrant children were the ones who were smuggling in the drugs to begin with.

I think I'm getting my panics confused......

[Rich]

Nice catch and release.

[sharmota4zeb]

yep

Wake me when our government run schools stop relying on Ritalin.

[Ron]

I have a few relatives who had to remove their kids from school because the school demanded they be put on ritalin before they return. the kids didn't need it and became fully productive adults but teacher friend pointed out the school gets more money for students on medication so there is incentive to put them on it wether they need it or not.

[Grakkus]

Your friend is wrong, it has nothing to do with medication, it's the diagnosis. If you have a diagnosis that requires a special ed accommodation, they get extra funds. No medication is necessary, and it doesn't chamge anything.

[Ron]

The medication gives you the special ed accommodation

[KennethJohnKelly]

The diagnosis gives you special ed accommodation. No medication necessary.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The word Russia apparently wasn't spoken once as the trial of Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign manager and frenemy of Russian oligarchs, got started yesterday.

However the court transcript was in Cyrillic.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

Courtroom security provided by Little Green Men.

[Longtobefree]

Only because the judge specifically prohibited it.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"Decades of fearmongering almost got porn addiction added to the International Classification of Diseases," notes Slate. "Thankfully, the World Health Organization got it right."

Yeah, right all over the keyboard.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"Decades of fearmongering almost got porn addiction added to the International Classification of Diseases," notes Slate. "Thankfully, the World Health Organization got it right."

Addiction to labeling things we don't like as diseases, coincidentally, is still also not classified as a disease.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

"You hit me! Picard never hit me."

-Q

[Rich]

convinced that a federal agent named "Q" has been feeding them dirt on all sorts of Deep State shenanigans

"Stop saying 'Fuck Q!'"

[sharmota4zeb]

I heard that the guy lives on Avenue Q, is good at puppetry, and matches in a local LGBTQ Parade every June.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

Also, fuck Dipshit Dave "Palin's Buttplug" Weigel.

[Palin's Buttplug]

You're eat up with CT Mikey - just like those idiot Trump-tards who believe Soros and the "deep state" are orchestrating a coup of your Fuhrer.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

Hush child, the Koch brothers might hear you!

[Fred G. Sanford]

There is no Deep State, only the Derp State.

[Bee Tagger]

Why the gun industry isn't worried about 3D-printed firearms.

is the answer lobbying?

[perlchpr]

I'm guessing it's more like "a $2000 machine that makes a single shot pistol that still might blow up in your hand" isn't much of a commercial threat.

[Brett Bellmore]

Pretty much. And the $140,000 machine that makes a regular gun that won't blow up in your hand isn't much of a threat, either.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

Only Flatlanders are worried about 2D firearms.

[TLBD]

Is Julian Assange's political imprisonment not a libertarian issue?

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

Yes, however Gillespie, Welchie Boy, and Reason have done a 180 and decided that Assange is an enemy of their (newly) beloved Deep State, and deserves whatever he gets.

[TLBD]

Is Reason no longer a libertarian magazine, or is the simplest explanation, that the writers are a bunch of cowards, the answer?

[loveconstitution1789]

Yes to both.

[DRM]

What political imprisonment? Who's holding him?

[Bee Tagger]

The word Russia apparently wasn't spoken once as the trial of Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign manager and frenemy of Russian oligarchs, got started yesterday.

it was SHOUTED

[Fist of Etiquette]

Why the gun industry isn't worried about 3D-printed firearms.

There's no substitute for steel. (Unless you're a Glock devotee.)

[Bee Tagger]

Trump has made "an average of nearly 7.6 [misleading or false] claims a day" since taking office.

i think the .6 covers the misleading part

[bevis the lumberjack]

That stat comes from the WaPo Fact Checker. How many false claims per day has the Washington Post made during the same period? I want to know who is WINNING.

[Longtobefree]

Well, the only thing they haven't gotten wrong (yet) is the date at the top of the page.

[Rich]

A federal judge has ordered federal immigration agents to stop forcibly drugging migrant children.

Serious question: Is there anything "a federal judge" cannot "order"?

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

One more round after last call.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

First ENB gets married, and suddenly the links are late. Is this her way of telling us something?

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

She was lazy and undependable before making it official with her beard, oops I mean "husband".

[sharmota4zeb]

I'm not sure a cock ring should be making jokes about a newlywed woman's productivity. What exactly do you do for your fellow man on a regular basis? At least the cock ring I bought my friend vibrates.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor bastard will never get his sandwich made for him.

[Bee Tagger]

Unless you want to ban the Anarchist's Cookbook and other 'dangerous literature', you might want to rethink your position.

ixnay on the idea-giving-nay

[juris imprudent]

It is almost like no one ever read a book about burning books.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Y'all understand that the 3D printed gun issue is a First Amendment issue and not Second Amendment one, right?

Unless you want to ban the Anarchist's Cookbook and other 'dangerous literature', you might want to rethink your position.
? Jonathan Blanks (@BlanksSlate) August 1, 2018

They do, so they won't.

[Ron]

if they can ban Mark Twain then yes they will

[Mike Laursen]

I'm pretty sure there's no reason something can't be a First and Second Amendment issue, simultaneously.

[John]

Elizabeth, you do need an ID to buy groceries if you plan to use a check, debit card or credit card to do so.

[loveconstitution1789]

Its semantics all the way down.

Of course, Trump said groceries and buying food does not require an ID.

Shopping for things at a grocery store can require an ID, which Trump could have been more clear about.

The media under Obama would have fixed that for Obama, no problem.

[Fist of Etiquette]

That's what I was assuming he meant, but I can't imagine how far down his staff he had to go to find this information.

[John]

It is just bad faith reporting. They knew what he meant and instead of just reporting that or engaging his point, they lie about what he said.

[loveconstitution1789]

The media lies to take thunder out of Trump political speeches.

I personally hate rah rah speeches but this is why many Americans hate the media.

[Bee Tagger]

Trump is not exactly good at being clear.

[loveconstitution1789]

Trumps wins two-fold. The Lefties flip out about everything Trump says.

Trump supporters getting pumped about requiring ID to vote.

[Rich]

This.

[John]

I think he is perfectly clear. The problem is journalists are morons. I really think they are and that is half of the reason they don't understand most of what he says.

[TLBD]

Who hasn't had to use their ID at some point at the grocery store to get something they want?

It is abundantly clear what he meant.

But LC is right, Trump wins by saying things in a way that an unhinged asshole could take however they want. He still gets his point across to normal people, and highlights what unhinged assholes his opposition are.

[loveconstitution1789]

This is why TDS fits so well. The media does not like the main point of that part of the speech- voting should require proof that you're a US citizen.

The media, including ENB, skews a sentence about buying groceries requiring IDs into that he is lying.

Its why the 99% of the media has TDS and why many Americans dont trust the lying media.

[mad.casual]

Who hasn't had to use their ID at some point at the grocery store to get something they want?

Carrying Trump's premise forward, there's no state in the union where a 22-yr.-old can't buy cigarettes, there's also no state in the union that isn't *required by law* to card everyone under the age of *27* to ensure they aren't selling tobacco to minors.

[$park? The Misanthrope]

Who hasn't had to use their ID at some point at the grocery store to get something they want?

Me. And I use my debit card almost exclusively.

[Shirley Knott]

Likewise.
I can't remember when I've had to show any form of ID at the grocery (or the post office), but I do know it's been quite a bit more than 3 decades.
My doctor, now, ID and insurance papers at every single visit.

[Ron]

In California if you buy beer you have to show id until the age of 35 however if you use your debit card at the same major gorcery store your info will show up that its okay to buy hence your id is used everytime.

[loveconstitution1789]

$park? The Misanthrope|8.1.18 @ 10:51AM|#
Who hasn't had to use their ID at some point at the grocery store to get something they want?
Me. And I use my debit card almost exclusively.

Why would anyone use a debit card?

I for one love others to have easy access to my money in back accounts.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

He still gets his point across to normal people,

I don't know precisely what counts as normal in your can't-keep-up yahoo town, but in modern, successful America the half-educated, disaffected, diffusely intolerant, backward, superstitious, economically shambling people are not known as "normal people."

[TLBD]

Just go away.

[Azathoth!!]

I don't know precisely what counts as normal in your can't-keep-up yahoo town, but in modern, successful America the half-educated, disaffected, diffusely intolerant, backward, superstitious, economically shambling people are not known as "normal people."

We know, Artie, we know. You call those folks 'kin'.

That's the word you inbreds use, right? 'Kin'?

Hick.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's nothing new.

[Robert]

They knew what he meant and instead of just reporting that or engaging his point,

Because practically nobody wants to argue openly against voter ID requirements.

I'm not a big promoter of requiring ID at the polls, because I know the vast majority of the election fraud goes on at other points?but I'm certainly not actively against an ID requirement!

[Jerryskids]

Slow today, John. But I knew somebody would be along to insist that Trump was correct, even if you had to re-interpret what he said. Go stand near the checkout at any grocery store and see how many people ever show an ID. If you're writing a check, maybe, but nobody writes checks any more. Use a debit/credit card and as long as you know the PIN, nobody ever asks for an ID. Hell, I regularly buy groceries for my niece using her debit card, never had a problem. Get back on your meds, your knee jerk is turning into a full-body spasm.

[loveconstitution1789]

Waiting in line at the grocery, some old lady is writing a check and I have to show ID to buy liquor.

If I dont buy booze, then the cashier wants to see my ID when I use my credit card.

Coastal elite see everything Trump said a lie.

Real America has varying experience with using checks, getting carded for liquor, and getting carded for credit cards.

[sharmota4zeb]

I think this is the confusion. Most people in my area don't buy liquor at a grocery store. They buy cigs at a convince store and booze at a liquor store.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

The reason goobers call educated, accomplished, reasoning, skilled, informed, tolerant people the "elite" is that even the gullible and deplorable yahoos recognize, at some level, that accomplished, modern, educated residents of attractive, economically strong communities are their betters.

Resentment and disaffectedness are unlikely precipitates of success or influence.

[Agammamon]

No you don't.

1. You're like, 70 or something - they're not carding you.

2. Nobody asks for ID for a credit card specifically anymore. Next you'll be saying they've turned you away because you didn't sign the back of the card once.

3. Even if you did, that's not justification for doing it and its certainly not justification for spreading the practice.

Papiere Bitte.

[loveconstitution1789]

I'm glad that I have you as my shadow Agammamon.

I just sick you on the cashiers that ask for my ID.

Key word "ask". Under your implication of "Papiere Bitte", the Nazis at Publix demand my ID and I must show them or I am sent to Auschwitz.

[John]

They don't always but they can and sometimes do. The fact that they don't always in no way diminishes the point. If it is okay to check people's ID when they write a check or use a debit card or when they board a plane, open a bank account, get a job or do a million other things that are necessary to live a normal life, why isn't it okay to ask for an ID to vote?

Yes, Jerry, you have made your point. You are one of the smart set. You are a top man. You are not one of the evil deplorables. Virtue signal received. No one would ever think you would defend Trump.

[Rich]

why isn't it okay to ask for an ID to vote?

"Because it's your RIGHT as a citizen! You know, like owning a firearm!"

[John]

You have to have an ID for that as well. And having a job and a bank account is a right as well. Moreover, my vote is my right but it is only good if only those who are an eligible vote as well. Every time someone votes illegally, a legitimate voter is effectively disenfranchised. Libertarians never seem to understand that side of it because Mexicans are sacred and have a right to vote even if they are not citizens.

[TLBD]

Reason: A foreign country messed with our election, Mueller is completely legitmate, and he should do everything he can to get to the bottom of why the anointed one wasn't elected!

Also Reason: Let foreign citizens vote in our election!

[John]

Millions of Mexican illegal immigrants voting is great but 12 Russian trolls posting on Facebook is a national security issue.

This is what reason actually believes.

[sharmota4zeb]

Reason laughs at the fear mongering over Russian trolls too.

[Agammamon]

No, you do not. I can go out right now and legally purchase a firearm without an ID.

[loveconstitution1789]

Not in a store you cant. You could buy a gun off a private seller without ID.

[Hamster of Doom]

Personally, I don't think we ought to have to show ID for any of those things, and that getting together every few years to decide who gets to tell everyone what to do is probably an awful idea. And if this were a representative government, then perhaps my thoughts might actually matter.

[John]

So you don't think there should be any rules for voting? Everyone should vote as early and often as they like? How is that a legitimate election? And if that is not your opinion, then what is wrong with you having to show who you are to vote?

Lastly, fuck you if you think you are entitled to do business with someone without showing who you are if they want to know that. People can ask you for an ID. If you don't like it, fuck off and don't do business with them.

[Hamster of Doom]

Okay, John.

[loveconstitution1789]

What is the position for not requiring IDs or proof of citizenship to vote?

[Hamster of Doom]

My bad, LC, I wasn't clear. It isn't that I don't think we should show ID to vote. It's voting for a superior elite to control every minute detail of our life that I suspect is a bad idea.

[Agammamon]

How are the elections legitimate now? Austin kicked out Uber because *17%* of the city voted for that.

1. How is it up to the citizens of Austin to decide to use force to exclude a business?

2. How is 51% of 1/3 of the population a legitimate majority?

[loveconstitution1789]

Banning a product or service is unconstitutional.

There is nothing in the Texas constitution that allows a government to ban a business. Regulate, yes. Ban, no.

People let these unconstitutional things end up on ballots. It should have never been on the ballot. A court should have sua sponte struck down the ballot initiative as unconstitutional.

[BYODB]

There is nothing in the Texas constitution that allows a government to ban a business. Regulate, yes. Ban, no.

No offense, but have you read the Texas constitution? The only constitution that compares in length and idiocy is California, if that's any indicator for you.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying it's a herculean feat to read the whole thing.

[loveconstitution1789]

BYODB, At one point or another discussing topics from my perspective I have quickly viewed every state's constitution.

Only a few state Constitutions were ratified in the 20th Century, with most being in the 19th Century. Those 19th Century Constitutions purposely followed the 13 founding state's Constitutions and the US Constitution with basic protections.

The Lefties know how hard it is to change the US Constitution, so they undermine it. They know that most people have never even reviewed their state Constitution once, so they ignore the limits of state constitutions and pass laws. The judges, bureaucrats, and politicians gladly oblige the Lefties with these bans and unconstitutional expansions of state power. Few really challenge non-criminal state statutes.

The trick with state constitutions/laws is to use the index to find the chapter relating to what you want.
Texas Constitution
Article 1 list the Texas Bill of rights. Article 12 lists private corporations.

I have yet to see a state constitution say that the state can ban products or services. Regulation is not banning as there would be nothing to regulate if it was banned.

[Cathy L]

How is that a legitimate election?

What's a "legitimate election" lol

[loveconstitution1789]

While I agree with you about IDs, people also lie about who they are. Some even lie just to lie. There was a time where people's character meant a lot and when they said who they are, that was who they are.

I dont want a national ID but people proving proof of citizenship to vote is important. If we cannot have fair elections then this experiment is off.

There are people who commit voter fraud. Proving American citizenship limits that.

[Hamster of Doom]

It's more that I think it makes us ask the wrong questions. True, we didn't used to have solidified identities, and sometimes people misrepresented themselves. Now we have a comprehensive identity file that is frequently stolen so that people can misrepresent themselves. This, to me, does not feel like an improvement. It feels like security theater.

I'd like to see if the free market could cobble up a better solution.

[Agammamon]

I will concede that you have a good point.

Its just consider this - requiring an ID does impose a cost on people. It also enables increased government power (think of all the times you're *required* to surrender your ID to the government - all predicated that you have one, which then requires you to get one).

And then weigh that against actual voter fraud.

The UK just ran an experiment

https://tinyurl.com/yajyeq94

https://tinyurl.com/ycm2zmdq

350 people turned away for not having proper ID in 5 voting places, 28 known instances of voter fraud *in the whole country*. You can multiply that by a thousand and still get 28k in a country of 60+million - compare that to how many people will not be able to vote if you're turning 60 away from each polling place.

[loveconstitution1789]

Nobody should be turned away for voting unless they are clearly not US citizens. Not sure why someone would admit that and try to vote but whatever.

I personally think all voting should be done in person (except military persons who are overseas and cannot physically be present) and on one voting day to end voter fraud via absentee ballots.

I do not have an answer for how to get old people to voting locations since they have a right to vote too.

[Agammamon]

Why not ask why, if we don't check ID when you vote, that its ok to check it when using a debit card, opening a bank account, boarding a plane, or doing a million other things necessary to live a normal life?

[loveconstitution1789]

Private companies have a vested interest in you not defrauding them. If they want to ask for proof of identity, that's their prerogative.

[BYODB]

And yet, the piece of identification that the company is demanding is one issued by the State so this is something of an Ouroboros. Companies couldn't demand such a thing if, say, Social Security didn't exist or if 'official government identities' didn't exist.

[loveconstitution1789]

True government does issue the 'most secure' IDs.

If we didnt allow drivers licenses to be a national ID with pictures, then really the only government ID would be a passport. Businesses would have to accept some other forms of proof of age, like Birth certificates.

Most Americans have accept the Police and Nanny State, so we are way past scaling this ID thing back now.

I predicted this once they started forcing drivers licenses to have pictures and the National ID Congressional talk was rejected by the American majority.

[Wally]

wtf do you think a debit card is?

[Conchfritters]

Some dude stole my wife's purse and went to Walmart at 4:00 in the morning and bought $500 of gift cards - when he paid with my wife's credit card, the cashier never even asked for ID, or questioned why scumbag dude was paying for $500 of gift cards at 4:00am with a credit card for someone with a female name.

[John]

So what? They could have and when they did refused to take the card. The fact that they don't always enforce the rule doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist or that there would be a problem with them enforcing it.

[Shirley Knott]

The "so what" is that they did not have to show ID, despite Trump's insistence that it was a routine & expected part of such transactions.
It's not.
It may happen, but it rarely does. His analogy simply does not hold, regardless of the merits, or lack thereof, of requiring ID to vote.

[loveconstitution1789]

I show ID all the time. You dont.

Its anecdotes all the way down.

Luckily, the issue of voters proving that they are Americans is still the most important part to non-TDS Americans.

[loveconstitution1789]

I get my ID checked at Publix when I buy a $25 gift card using a credit card.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

That indicates Publix clerks sense that you are untrustworthy.

[loveconstitution1789]

Yeah, thats it.

They call me by first name and I spend money there each week.

Oh, I get it. You work at publix as a bagger.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Or maybe the cashier was being lazy and/or incompetent?

[DesigNate]

They're supposed to.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Expecting a Walmart employee to display pride and dedication in their work was probably a bridge too far.

[Ron]

they didn't have to show id to the cashier at 4am because the cashier was in on the crime and probably took one of the gift cards home. I know this because something similar happened to me and it turned out both parties colluded.

[John I]

I only buy groceries using credit or debit cards and in my entire life I have never been carded for doing so. I don't think I've ever seen someone get carded unless beer or liquor was part of what they were buying

[John]

I think you either don't use a credit card much or you are lying out of your ass. I have been asked for an ID while using a credit card plenty of times. Moreover, the stores can do so if they like. And that is the point. The fact that they don't always doesn't detract from the larger point that they can.

[loveconstitution1789]

You have a shadow now, John.

[John I]

LOL, yes I'm lying about how I buy groceries. 100%

[Jerryskids]

Groceries, John, we're talking about groceries. We're not talking about JCPenney or Best Buys.

[bevis the lumberjack]

As it happens I just got back from the store. Seriously. Stuck my debit card in the machine and put in the PIN and no ID required. I've never been asked to show an ID at the store using credit or debit. Checks, yes, but who writes checks at the store any more?

[Brett Bellmore]

Yeah, that pisses me off, personally: They put PINs on card transactions so that nobody can just pick your pocket and start using your debit card, and what do the blasted stores do? Start processing transactions without the PIN, and the card companies let them.

And the amount it's permitted for is creeping up, too.

But the fact remains the store is legally entitled to card you for any credit transaction, and mandated to for some.

And, yeah, I've been caught behind old ladies writing checks in the checkout line.

[loveconstitution1789]

I never understood why people use debit cards that allow withdraws straight from your bank account.

Fuck that. I want one extra step between my bank account and a thief.

[Agammamon]

John, *I* can ask you for ID any time I want. That doesn't mean 'if you want to talk to Agammamon you have to have ID'.

[Aloysious]

I get carded at my local Ace Hardware when I'm buying bolts. They have a little sign that says, "We card everyone."

It makes me chuckle whenever the subject of voter ID resurfaces.

[TLBD]

I worked as a cashier in high school for a bit.

People who got carded:

No signature on card.
Whoever I deemed necessary that was using a card. (Generally just with people spending a lot of money)
Alcohol, tobacco products.
People who wrote checks.

[John I]

Yeah, I never make massive purchases at any one time, so that's probably one reason I never get carded. Maybe I just have a trustworthy face

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Yes yes of course. When the president says something that is not true, the media should give him the benefit of the doubt. Isn't that right John?

[Robert]

But even from here, just reading HyR w/o any other source for what Trump said, it's obvious he was saying, "ID is required for lots of less momentous & more frequent interactions than public elections, so why not for public elections?" How much benefit of any doubt do you need for that? It's just good faith, not bending over backwards.

[Paloma]

I use a debit card all the time and never been asked for ID.

I've never seen anyone else asked for ID in a grocery store, drug store, airplane, Home Depot, etc. Only liquor store.

[Brett Bellmore]

Or if your groceries include any "adult" products like alcohol or tobacco.

[Agammamon]

John, outside of a check, no you don't.

[loveconstitution1789]

Its anecdotes all the way down.

[KennethJohnKelly]

Check, yes. Credit card, generally not. Debit card - never, in my experience.

[loveconstitution1789]

Another accomplishment for Trump that Reason does not cover.
Presumed US war remains handed over by North Korea begin journey home after ceremony in South Korea

[Fist of Etiquette]

ketchup packets are the new straws https://t.co/lTHe7FGkNF
? Elizabeth Nolan Brown (@ENBrown) August 1, 2018

If you want to be cutting edge you'll tell us what the next ketchup packets is.

[Rich]

*Please* let it be aluminum cans!

[Mongo]

Those ketchup bags are useless. You need a frickin' handful of them just for one hot dog.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Something tells me a lot of foods for you are just vehicles for getting ketchup into your mouth.

[Jerryskids]

Disposable razors.

[lap83]

Probably sirhacha packets

[Robert]

Sterile packaging for medical & surgical goods.

[Bee Tagger]

a woman in a head scarf engaged in some sort of shouting match with a man in a cowboy hat

whoever got that footage is set for life off the commissions on selling it as stock footage to network dramas showing political discord.

[Rockabilly]

Hillary Clinton will never be president and Bill will never be 1st male 1st lady.

hahahhahaaaaa !!!

[sharmota4zeb]

Let's nominate Monica to be our Libertarian candidate in 2024.

[Just Say'n]

Without knowing anything about her, I'm going to say she'll still be better than Bill Weld

[General_Tso]

Having suffered through his governorship here in Massatwoshits, I can confirm she'd be better that Weld.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Hillary Clinton will never be president and Bill will never be 1st male 1st lady.

Yes. And conservatives will continue to lose the culture war and will increasingly be relegated to left-behind, can't-keep-up, declining, parasitic communities devastated by being on the wrong end of bright flight. Eventually, the depleted human residue in flyover country will be 90 percent Republican, 80 percent evangelical, 65 percent white, and 25 percent employable.

In other words, we have a deal!

[Freddy the Jerk]

Carry on, clinger!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Senate Dems are calling out the Trump administration for approving the online publication of 3D gun blueprints so that people can print guns at home.

"Why buy them if you can print them at home instead?" Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) said. "This is Trump's chance to stand up to the NRA" pic.twitter.com/qbkMrR8YWG
? Marianna Sotomayor (@MariannaNBCNews) July 31, 2018

Yeah, politics is great.

[juris imprudent]

I am convinced that Trump is not the source of political stupidity, just a reflection of it.

[loveconstitution1789]

If the media bashed every politician for their political hyperbole, we would be a better country.

The media has taken a different path.

[Longtobefree]

"(D-MA)"
All you really needed to know.

[Bee Tagger]

Of course, Americans aren't (yet) required to prove their citizenship, identity, or anything else before purchasing food.

just when driving to the grocery store within 100 miles of a national border

[Rich]

"an average of nearly 7.6 [misleading or false] claims a day"

Oh, *surely* that statement can be made more precise!

[Rich]

*less* precise!

*** gets sarcasm ***

[loveconstitution1789]

If you have to show identification "to buy groceries," said the president, why shouldn't you have to show identification in order to vote?

Of course, Americans aren't (yet) required to prove their citizenship, identity, or anything else before purchasing food.

You dont buy alcohol when you grocery shop? You dont use a credit card where they check the ID?

[$park? The Misanthrope]

You dont buy alcohol when you grocery shop?

Nope. And I don't get carded when I buy alcohol at the liquor store either.

You dont use a credit card where they check the ID?

I use my debit card all the time, never been asked for ID.

[loveconstitution1789]

Luckily, some of actually can buy alcohol/smokes at grocery stores so we get carded.

For those of you who cannot possibly imagine this happens, MAGA!

[Ron]

I buy alcohol at the grocery store all the time, do you live in a state that doesn't allow alcohol sales at the grocery store?
I live in California where the cost of gas would be greater than the savings by making a trip to an alcohol store.

[loveconstitution1789]

In Georgia, we can buy booze and smokes at grocery stores.

[Freddy the Jerk]

Here in Colorado we can as well. But the booze is limited to 3.2 (thanks to liquor stores protecting their monopoly), so I'd have to buy the entire refrigerator isle to get a buzz. Can't understand why anyone bothers.

[loveconstitution1789]

3.2 % alcohol? Thats some bullshit.

We have a place called Taco Mac here that has over 100 beer taps of varying alcohol strengths. Some of their bottled beer is high into the 15%+ range.

[John]

http://www.iranhumanrights.org.....-sentence/

Iranian court sentences dissident for "spreading propaganda against the [Iranian] establishment,"

Who do the Mullahs think they are, Robert Mueller?

[Fist of Etiquette]

...whose skill at fanning resentments is fundamental to his appeal for a large chunk of voters.

Thank God none of his predecessors got away with this.

[Freddy the Jerk]

Some recent president referred to the opposition party as "enemies"...someone forgettable I guess, because nobody ever mentions that incident...

[John]

Wait until the Progs see my new code for printing straws.

[Mike Laursen]

I've been predicting the next big thing in virtue signaling will be to carry a reusable straw when one dines out, but I think I have to expand on that: the next big thing in virtue signaling will be to being a complete mess kit when one dines our, complete with plates, cups, condiments, toothpick. Extra points if any of it is made of hemp or recycled plastic.

[Fist of Etiquette]

According to the Washington Post's Fact Checker database, Trump has made "an average of nearly 7.6 [misleading or false] claims a day" since taking office.

We have no way of knowing if this is the norm for a president.

[Bee Tagger]

*In the Fact Checker era

[Longtobefree]

Compared to Emperor Hussein's how many per day?

[General_Tso]

Which they fell all over themselves to explain 'what he really meant'...

[sharmota4zeb]

the Rothschilds' satanic cult

What do people have against Satan? He's basically the Kenneth Starr of heaven.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

Satan is an unregistered agent of Zoroastrianism sent to fuck up YHWH's perfect creation. Thanks a lot Persia.

[John]

http://theintercept.com/2018/0.....ensorship/

Google plans to launch special censored search engine for the Chinese market. Don't be evil unless the Chinese Communists offer you enough money.

[Just Say'n]

I was informed that China was our ally and that's why tariffs against them were bad, but not against Russia which is literally Hitler incarnate or something

[Happy Chandler]

You're informed wrong.
Tariffs on China are bad because it is taxing Americans.

[Just Say'n]

But, taxing Americans due to a tariffs against Russia are different

[Happy Chandler]

Nobody has said anything about tariffs on Russia.

[Just Say'n]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wor.....34746.html

[Just Say'n]

You know this is why Monica never loved you Chandler Bing, right?

[Happy Chandler]

I was too busy integrating Major League Baseball and Kentucky schools to worry about that.

[Happy Chandler]

That is the Trump Tax on steel, directly raising cost of manufacturing in the US making foreign finished goods more competitive in the American market. It has nothing to do with Russia any more than Canada.

[loveconstitution1789]

Unfortunately, the price of steel was already higher than market price because of non-USA trade restrictions and regulation.

[Happy Chandler]

I thought the problem was cheap steel dumped by the Chinese? If the price was too high, why didn't the market fix it?

[loveconstitution1789]

The free market cannot fix the steel market. Too much meddling by China, EU, and the USA.

Its managed trade, so the market is managed.

[damikesc]

So, tech geeks hate working on border security apps...but DO have no problem suppressing data for a humanitarian shit hole. Somebody should ask the "we hate ICE" crowd about this dichotomy.

[Longtobefree]

Well, it all depends on your definition of evil, doesn't it?
Being communist is not evil; advocating for individual freedom is.

[Rich]

"Why buy them if you can print them at home instead?" Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) said.

"But, enough about sex robots."

[sharmota4zeb]

Printing a sex robot is a bad idea. 3D printers for the home market have a low resolution, and there is a reason a date should remove any nicks from his fingernails before the date. (No pun intended)

[Ron]

besides the printer cost do you home much expensive plastic it would take to make. it may be cheaper to go to the bunny ranch

[sharmota4zeb]

A federal judge has ordered federal immigration agents to stop forcibly drugging migrant children.

Good. I look forward to the day my county hospital stops forcibly drugging all children.

[John]

Sorry, you are a native. Shut the fuck up and take your sedatives.

[Happy Chandler]

That's already illegal.

[Conchfritters]

If you have to show identification "to buy groceries," said the president, why shouldn't you have to show identification in order to vote?

I give Trump a pass on this one. The last time he walked into a grocery store in the early 80s to buy groceries he probably wrote a check, and they asked him for ID. The real question is, has he driven a car in the last 25 years?

[Hamster of Doom]

Yeah, I have to let this one slide. I need ID to mail a package and buy cold medicine. This wasn't nearly as bad as McCain and $50 an hour picking lettuce.

[Nardz]

Obama: "We flood communities with so many guns that it is easier for a teenager to buy a Glock than get his hands on a computer or even a book."

[Nardz]

"There are neighborhoods where it's easier for you to buy a handgun and clips than it is for you to buy a fresh vegetable."

[Hamster of Doom]

They're fact-checking him because he isn't playing ball, and they're worried he'll screw up their game. The status quo doesn't need to be fact-checked. This is known.

[Just Say'n]

In Trump's mind, it's still the 1980's

[loveconstitution1789]

Trump was right. I show ID at the grocery store sometimes.

And its 2018.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"One person, and tomorrow the headlines will be, 'Massive protests,'" Trump said as the protesters were esecorted out. (So far, no such headlines have materialized.)

Effectively preempted!

[John]

That was a funny line.

[John]

http://www.upi.com/Energy-News.....533031601/

Venezuela has the world's largest known oil reserves. Socialists are so stupid that they cannot even pump oil out of the ground. Jesus Christ even the Arabs and the Russians can manage that. Latin American socialists might be the dumbest of a really stupid species.

[loveconstitution1789]

"The production models we've tried so far have failed and the responsibility is ours, mine and yours," Venezuela President Nicolas Maduro told his ruling PSUV party congress, as Venezuela looks to tackle chronic inflation the International Monetary Fund predicted would reach one million percent this year.

"Enough with the whining... we need to produce with or without (outside) aggression, with or without blockades, we need to make Venezuela an economic power," he added late Monday, with the country grappling with a four-year long recession.

"No more whining, I want solutions comrades!"

[Paloma]

Four million Venezuelans have already fled the country, many of them people who were fired from PSVSA for not being Chavez supporters.

It's a Latin American Atlas Shrugged.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

I wonder when the first mass grave will show up.

[Happy Chandler]

Venezuelan oil is super heavy. They got decimated by the oil price declines during the crisis, and didn't respond well to it. The problem was more the over-dependence on resource wealth, called the Dutch Disease. Countries dependent on resource wealth go into crisis on a regular basis. If Texas wasn't part of the US, they would have likely had a similar crisis in the 80's.

[Happy Chandler]

Adding the obvious:
Maduro is a criminal. He's been terrible, as had Chavez. Their economics was flawed, and Venezuela is not a model for anything. But, nobody of note said it was.

[John]

Yeah, hard to extract oil is terrible. That is why North Dakota and Alberta where it has to be fracked are both doing so poorly. And being a resource-dependent economy is a ticket to economic disaster. That is why people are starving in places like Kuwait.

Stop making excuses.

[loveconstitution1789]

Notice how he said that "their economics was flawed". Not Socialism is a disaster that never works for long.

[Happy Chandler]

Norway called. They disagree.

[loveconstitution1789]

Norway is expanding their socialist programs then? Norway is so successful, they are going socialist even harder?

Did not know that. I heard Norwegians are rolling back their socialist state a bit.

[Happy Chandler]

North Dakota had a boom, then a bust. If it were an independent country, things would have turned out much worse. As it is, they are facing budget crunches. They haven't gotten as bad as Kansas or Oklahoma (4 day school weeks!), but it is painful. However, they do have the federal government as a backstop, and people have free movement to other states. Minnesota seems to have had a bit of a surge of refugees.

[loveconstitution1789]

ND does not currently have another boom? I guess all the people there are waiting for their share of the internet taxes.

[Conchfritters]

People from N Dakota are always moving to Minnesota. It's N Dakota for crying out loud.

[Mike Laursen]

And you don't even have to do it yourself. You can easily get some foreign oil company to come in and do the actual work.

[loveconstitution1789]

Foreign oil companies dont want to invest time and resources if you are just going to steal their assets though.

Communists in Venezuela would have to grant property rights and that is literally the opposite of what Communism is about.

[sharmota4zeb]

From the article about not listing porn addiction as a disease:

Panic about pornography rolls around every few decades, from Reagan's Meese Commission on Pornography swearing that Playboy leads to the downfall of men to David Duke claiming sex films are a Jewish conspiracy to dilute the races.

Guys, I swear, none of the other Jews I work with on the website are that interested in interracial porn.

[loveconstitution1789]

Even funnier that being Jewish is not a race.

Socialist Nazis are just as stupid now as they were decades ago.

[sharmota4zeb]

I still want to know the process for converting to Cherokee. I've heard that many Americans did it way back when.

[loveconstitution1789]

Add in one Cherokee and one of some other race.

Presto, you're Cherokee.

[Happy Chandler]

Jews are as much a race as whites. Possibly more so.

[Mock-star]

+1 Rod Carew

[General_Tso]

And its Japs that are interested in tentacle porn, not J.A.P.s!

[Ken Hagler]

What is it with politicians being unable to resist demonstrating that they don't even buy their own groceries?

[John]

http://legalinsurrection.com/2.....onference/

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Linda Sarsour co-headline political action conference

Because it is not enough to be stupid, the Democrats must be crazy as well.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"The Democrats Are Crazy!!!!"

- a sign held by John at a Trump rally while wearing a QAnon t-shirt and a Pepe hat, after driving to the rally in a car with "Seth Rich Was Murdered" and "Pizzagate Is Real" bumperstickers

[chemjeff radical individualist]

er, that should be "Hillary Killed Seth Rich" or whatever conspiracy they are believing now with regards to his murder

[Just Say'n]

As opposed to Russia fever dreams which are totally legit

[Just Say'n]

Say, have we nailed down that Thai prostitute yet and her information that will lead to the whole collusion story being blown wide open?

[Just Say'n]

Super smart people: Ha ha, they're pushing conspiracy theories. Those crazy people

*five minutes later*

Super smart people: The nefarious nexus between Evangelicals and Russia!

[DesigNate]

The Democrats ARE crazy. That is objective reality.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Well then it seems to be a bipartisan affliction.

[loveconstitution1789]

There are a lot of Cr@zY Anarchists too.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

If Brett Kavanaugh Is Confirmed, These 5 Scary Things Could Easily Happen

Don't dismiss this important piece just because it's from Marie Claire, which you always thought was a fashion mag. It's a well written examination of the disastrous implications for reproductive health care that would result from Kavanaugh's confirmation. As libertarians, we must make common cause with Democrats and progressive to prevent this right-wing extremist from joining the Court. Have you called your US Senators yet?

#Resist
#StopKavanaugh

[John]

We can only dream right now. In the meantime, your tears and misery at the prospect are lovely.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Unlax. Libertarians have been working with liberals to effect progress in America for more than a half-century, against the preferences and efforts of conservatives, and that productive trajectory seems destined to continue.

Kavanaugh's confirmation would be nothing to fret about, because Democrats seem likely to enlarge the Supreme Court soon enough.

Enjoy the continued march of American society toward reason, tolerance, science, liberty, education, inclusivity, and modernity, led by our liberal-libertarian mainstream, our strongest educational and cultural institutions, and our modern, successful, progressive communities.

[John]

So I ran across the twitter feed of reason alum Tim Cavanaugh the other day. Turns out Cavanaugh is the exception to the generally iron clas Weigal rule and actually remained a libertarian instead of dropping the mask and becoming a leftist after he left the magazine. And he doesn't seem to have very good things to say about reason or many of its left leaning alumnus like Julian Sanchez.

http://twitter.com/bigtimcavan.....6277124096

[Aloysious]

I miss Tim. Always read his stuff in the magazine before I found the website.

[John]

Me too.

[Just Say'n]

You should read Kraysinski. He's a Russian bot now

[loveconstitution1789]

now?

[Calidissident]

I don't get the argument about the warfare state at all. Trump has continued, if not expanded, every conflict we were fighting under Obama. Libertarians rightly critiqued Obama for continuing Bush's wars, yet many of the same people who did so are utterly silent about Trump continuing Obama's. Trump deserves a thumbs up on foreign policy because ... he met with Kim Jong Un and Putin? I seriously don't get how you can argue there's been a significant step back in the perpetual warfare state.

[loveconstitution1789]

Not expanding US's involvement in global warfare is stepping back from US aggressiveness for the past decades.

Trump does not feel that he can pull all troops out of everything all at once since past presidents have created such a mess globally.

[Calidissident]

Trump has expanded the use of drone strikes compared to Obama. If you want to limit "expanding US involvement in global warfare" to just starting new conflicts, and exclude things like the strikes against Syria's government, then maybe that claim could be true but you are splitting a lot of hairs at that point. Obama was less aggressive than Bush but I don't recall that winning him many points around here, and I don't see why Trump continuing all of his wars merits applause.

[loveconstitution1789]

Has Trump? You have a citation for that?

While doing more drone missions would be an escalation as far as I am concerned, Obama had "x" number of drone strikes during 8 years. Trump has "x" number of drone strikes in 1.5 years. I doubt Trump has more drone strikes.

Additionally, Obama murdered a US citizen via drone. Let me know when Trump has ordered one of those.

[Antilles]

"Ketchup packets are the new straws"

Good. I HATE ketchup!

[mad.casual]

Who buys a printer when it's cheaper to buy a gun?

John Malkovich that's who.

[lap83]

"the 3D printed gun issue is a First Amendment issue."

I was always under the impression that 3D guns were intended to work at some point.

[John]

The funny thing is that it appears that most of the media and all of the Democratic party have no idea that it is perfectly legal to build your own gun and always has been.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

That's not much of a surprise. They have no earthly idea how a gun works. If you tell them how a gun works they start whining that you're "gunsplaining".

[John]

http://www.latimes.com/books/l.....story.html

Bigfoot Erotica is a thing and it is okay. Finally, Steve Smith is going to be accepted into mainstream society.

[Alan Vanneman]

Suderman's take on Aitch Dubya's "gaffe" is almost Trumpian in its inaccuracy. Reporters made fun of George Sr. for not knowing that, back in 1992, supermarkets had gadgets that could register the price of an item by reading the bar code. In fact, the version that the president was reacting to was more sophisticated than that, extracting more information than just the price, though I can't remember the details. Just why a man who had, for the past twelve years, been vice president or president should have been buying his own groceries strikes me as strange. "Press set him up" just about covers it, even though I voted against the guy twice.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The new type of scanner could read damaged barcodes and weigh produce.

[DRM]

In fact, the "reporter" at the NYT who "broke" the story about Bush not knowing about scanners wasn't even at the National Grocer's Convention visit, inventing the incident based on a pool report.

To prove how dedicated the New York Times is to accurate reporting, they still employ the lying shit to this day.

[Just Say'n]

QAnon conspiracies are different from Russia fever dreams only in the sense that one is mainstreamed and reported uncritically without a shred of evidence.

How's that Thai prostitute that is the key to the whole collusion story working out?

[Ron]

If you are using a check a credit card or buying beer you need id. So Trump was right again. Get your facts straight ENB

[$park? The Misanthrope]

So Trump was right again

Except for the millions of cases every day where he was wrong.

[loveconstitution1789]

Since we dont believe the lying media, I would put my money on the substance of what Trump says is truthful.

[Ron]

If you are going to claim something isn't truth full don't use a false untruth to prove your point, it diminishes all other claims of untruthfullness

[Jerry B.]

"Of course, Americans aren't (yet) required to prove their citizenship, identity, or anything else before purchasing food."

Except beer, wine, or spirits. Or non-food items such as cigarettes, legal marijuana, firearms, or ammo (in some places).

[DesigNate]

This is such a stupid argument. I have seen people carded, and myself been carded, other people never get or see anyone get carded. It's all just anecdotal bullshit.

[Tony]

Trump hasn't done any grocery shopping besides shouting "Get me a Coke!" or "Get me a Big Mac!" in 30 years.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Huh, that's weird, why didn't he just compare it to checking out a book at the library?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Getting a library card
You can apply for a Library card online or at any branch. After you apply, show your photo ID and proof of address (like a piece of mail) at any branch to get your card.

You wanna subject your neighbors to the crushing will of the 51%? Whatever, go pull the levers, Ivan. You wanna check out Harry Potter, not so fast, Ma'am, we're going to need to see some photo ID... we have standards, after all.

[Tony]

Well they are loaning you a free book. They're not requiring a card because they want to discourage you from reading, which is what makes it different from voter ID.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

The act of demanding the ID discourages you from reading, just like it does for voting. That's the logic. And its racist because I've been told by the most woke members of our fair society that black and brown people in general are too dumb to get id.

So libraries are racist as is getting a conceal carry permit. QED.

[Tony]

It may have that effect, but that is not the intended purpose, as it is with voter ID. The purpose is to get their book back. Your vote, not being a tangible good, is thus not comparable.

Must we talk about things while ignoring the obvious? Tickle a Republican and they'll freely admit to why they want these laws. It's not a newfound concern for the integrity of democracy.

[Eddy]

Exactly how many Republicans have you tickled "to get information"?

[Tony]

You lose count once the convention or Shark Week rolls around.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

How does requiring an ID discourage you from voting, when it doesn't discourage you from doing anything else?

[Tony]

So I suppose we're going to pretend that the obvious isn't obvious,

It does if you struggle to get an ID. Doesn't sound like much of a hardship, but in fact it is for a lot of people, and furthermore why are you arguing in favor of inserting government bureaucracy between people and their exercise of a basic right when it serves absolutely no purpose?

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

"A lot of people?" What is "a lot" and who are they? Is there real data or just feelz? And I really wonder how they manage to function at all, given the aforementioned fact that you have to have an ID to do damn near anything.

[loveconstitution1789]

Requiring an ID, keeps voter fraudsters from voting more than once or bringing their 17 year kid to vote for Democrats.

See that hardship? How are Democrats going to get elected if they are being required to play this game fairly?

[Tony]

It's like you people have never voted before. Your name has to be on the goddamn list. That means you registered. You already went through the bureaucracy.

As for whether in-person voter fraud is an actual problem, it's not. It's been studied. Republicans just ignore the facts as usual. Again, they freely admit that their goal is not to protect election integrity but to suppress the vote of poor people. You yourself repeatedly say that your motivations for national policy are mostly about making fewer Democratic voters without actually having to come up with good ideas to sell them.

[loveconstitution1789]

One instance of voter fraud is a problem. If we cannot have fair elections then fuck it, this experiment is off. Its Duck season.

One instance of voter fraud means there are many more instances of it that have not been found yet.

Also look at motives. Why do people not want elections to be fair where only one person gets a vote?

There are poor Republicans and poor Libertarians who seem to make sure that they can vote. For some reason only Democrats need 'no voter rules' to make sure the process is fair.

[Eddy]

Trump's been reading Revelation 13:16-17 again, didn't know he had such an interest in the Bible.

[loveconstitution1789]

666

[Ken Shultz]

"If you have to show identification "to buy groceries," said the president, why shouldn't you have to show identification in order to vote?"

This is all you got?

Trump is wrong on immigration and free trade. They're looking at another round of tariffs against China.

And you want to go after him for not buying his own groceries?

And is his point invalid despite the faux pas?

If we need to show ID Before we can [insert x], should we need to show ID before we vote?

Is anybody answering that question?

Or are we just jumping on the president because he doesn't buy his own groceries?

[loveconstitution1789]

Ken, this is Reason now. Full blown TDS.

A good portion of the trolls on here are posting more stuff than regulars.

If they cannot destroy Libertarianism by persuasion, then attacking regulars and undermining the website is their game.

[Ken Shultz]

"According to the Washington Post's Fact Checker database, Trump has made "an average of nearly 7.6 [misleading or false] claims a day" since taking office."

Oh no, I guess we'll have to stop believing everything politicians say. I'd say we might have to learn to think for ourselves, but I don't want to sound desperate.

P.S. We shouldn't take the Washington Post's word for everything either.

[Fred G. Sanford]

Q needs to stop leaking information and get back to supplying James Bond with unfailingly useful gadgets.

[Deconstructed Potato]

When I shop for groceries I tell them my name is Comrade Big Red Gay Tony, unless I'm just rocking up to the checkout in my jammies with a large cucumber and a tub of vaseline; those times I just say "I'm libertarian, see".

[Eddy]

"the Rothschilds' satanic cult"

All that just to control the weather?

Look, everyone *talks* about the weather, the Rothschilds *do* something about it.

[MDP]

If you're not paying cash for your groceries you may indeed have to show ID to prove you are the cardholder. That's not much of a stretch. Many people don't use cash anymore.Given that, calling it "ignorance" is an odd characterization. Thankfully the rest of the article demonstrates enough hostility towards Trump supporters that I'd characterize this as a hit piece. The information it does contain requires some stretching to be seen as an honest account and the information it doesn't contain about the rally speak volumes.

I thought Reason had higher standards than this. If you a moral issue with Trump or his policies then make an opinion piece. Don't pepper a news article with disdain for the subjects. It belittles everybody; the author, the attendees and Reason.

[FreeTempe]

WWG1WGA!

Q sent me

[Rossami]

re: ID to buy groceries...

He kind of has a point. Consider:
- if your grocery cart includes any alcohol, cigarettes, certain drugs (even if they're technically over-the-counter) and a couple other categories of products, you have to provide ID.
- if you want to pay with anything other than just cash (and who carries that anymore), you have to provide ID.
- if you want any of the store discounts, you either have to provide ID (the store's discount card) or provide enough personal information that they can confirm your ID (and find your card number).

I can duck into the store to buy a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread without ID but for more any serious trip to the grocery store, I'm going to have to provide one form of ID or another.

[Tony]

He doesn't have a point, he has a half-formed talking point attempting to make its way from what's left of his brain matter out of his mouth hole.

[loveconstitution1789]

Lefties talking out of all holes at once trying to undermine Trump's position that voting should require ID.

[Tony]

Even if his talking point had come out unscathed, it's still a fallacy. There are ways in which buying shit and voting are not alike.

[loveconstitution1789]

Luckily, Trump kicked Hillary's ass and what Lefties want is not how its going down.

[UltraModerate]

- Alcohol, cigarettes, and drugs aren't generally considered "groceries," and in any case, his blanket statement implies that you ALWAYS have to provide ID for groceries.
- ID is almost never requested for credit/debit cards unless you write "See ID" on the back.
- If a store discount card qualifies as ID, then I can present my discount card to vote, right? Oh, that's right, I can't, because nobody would ever qualify that as "ID."

[Rossami]

re: "aren't generally considered groceries," - It's arguable but remember that many people call anything you buy at a grocery store "groceries". That list notably includes the US Government when they are calculating the "basket of goods" used to estimate various inflation indices.

re: ID for credit cards - The credit card is the ID. Authentication by a thing you have. Moreover, it's supposed to be a two-factor ID. Mine has my picture on it. (Okay, it's small, on the back and not that flattering but it's still there.) Others are supposed to have a signature which the merchant is supposed to verify. Yes, many tellers are lazy. I don't think that invalidates the point. The merchant can demand to verify your identity at will.

re: store discount cards as ID. I never said it could be used to vote. Many things that can be used to vote in those states that already do require ID can not be used to buy food. The fact that there are two separate lists has nothing to do with the fact that some form of list exists.

re: his blanket statement - Maybe. Or you could be reading more into the comment than he meant. In this age of twitter and sound-bite journalism, who can tell.

[UltraModerate]

To be fair, booze does count as "groceries" for a lot of Florida residents.

[loveconstitution1789]

Who here has NOT drank at least one meal?

[Tony]

Drunk.

[loveconstitution1789]

Tony loves alcohol. He cannot imagine anyone drinking a protein shake for a meal.

[UltraModerate]

Seriously? People are totally bought into a thing that started on 8chan? Like, the 8chan where people are 100% anonymous and don't have to be accountable for anything they say? Like, white supremacist gathering site 8chan?

That said, I like the "We are Q" posters. I want to start making ones that say "We're here! We're Q! Get used to it!" and start handing them out at rallies.

[The gouch]

And why not voter ID.. We have here in AZ.. You need an ID when cashing a check, Getting a drivers license,, go to a bank to open an account.. No ID,, "SEE YOU LATER" !!!!! SO, these groups are smoking their used TP!!