Public Unions

Santa Clara Police Threaten to 'Boycott' Working at 49ers Games Over Colin Kaepernick

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Rothmuller/Icon Sportswire/Newscom

The police union in Santa Clara, Calif., where the NFL's San Francisco 49ers play, says police officers may decide not to work at Levi's, the 49ers' stadium, if the 49ers organization doesn't take "corrective action" against Colin Kaepernick for critical comments he made about police officers while explaining why he'd decided to sit through the national anthem, as the local NBC affiliate, which obtained a copy of the police union's letter to the 49ers, reports.

In the letter (the NBC copy of the letter does not include who signed it), the union argues that Kaepernick's statements (the union calls them actions) "threatened our harmonious relationship" with the 49ers organization. Yet as public employees, the police are supposed to be public servants, not equal partners with the communities they are paid to protect. Threatening not to perform your duties because of critical comments goes beyond most reasonable people's definitions of a "boycott."

The union went further, claiming it had to act because it was responsible to create an environment "free of harassing behavior." The idea that critical comments amount to harassment ought to be a ridiculous one on its face, except that elements of the left have been pushing the idea that words can be harassment and even violence. The appropriation of such thinking should by no means be surprising to any thinking person. Police officers have similarly glommed on to the idea of hate crimes, arguing, with some success, to be protected by hate crime statutes. The original advocates of hate crime laws insist that was not the purpose of the legislation, but critics have long warned that such laws will inevitably be used by those in positions of power to protect themselves.

The union argues that Kaepernick made "inflammatory statements" while working for the 49ers, and therefore that the 49ers need to do something about it. Police unions, of course, rarely apply this kind of thinking on their own. Across the country, police unions have protected cops who have said awful things, and more, cops who have done all kinds of inappropriate things, up to and including the use of excessive and deadly force. It shouldn't be surprising. Despite the propaganda, public unions' primary aim is to protect their employees, not to improve the services they represent. In that context, it's hard to blame the police unions for the tone-deaf things they have done in the wake of police violence becoming a national issue.

For years, unions have been identified as one of the problems contributing to police violence. Critics of public unions have been warning about the power imbalance created by extending the privilege to public employees to collectively bargain with the government. The time to push for police union reforms came long ago. Those, especially on the left but also on the right (Scott Walker, the Republican governor of Wisconsin who helped establish the first nominally independent state agency to investigate police officers, specifically exempted police unions from his broader public union reforms) who claim to be concerned about police violence but do nothing to bring attention to or otherwise work toward necessary police union reforms, ought to read the Santa Clara police union letter carefully and understand that such an attitude is not an aberration but the inevitable product of permitting those who exclusively carry guns for local governments to also unionize against them.

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  1. And nothing of value was lost.

    1. Save the rule of law.

      We’ve got people paid by taxes saying, “We’re not going to do our sworn duty to uphold the rule of law for people who don’t show the proper fealty for us”, and a lot of people think this is a good thing.

      1. Isn’t it off duty work?

        1. If it is, what’s Ed whining about?

          1. Oh, I dunno, maybe, that this is a really, really shitty attitude for people who are supposed to be providing protection for “the people”.

            1. I didn’t realize there was a right to have off-duty cops provide in-person security at my parties.

              1. Except when they are on-duty cops being paid overtime.

                It has nothing to do with rights, it has to do with what you signed up for.

                Also, even if they aren’t “on duty”, thios refusal just shows that these people a plainly and simply shitty human beings. IE, people I have a right o call out as shitty human beings.

              2. In Formula1 they have their own private Security, and local Police are not used. When F1 raced at Indianapolis the local police held a press conference talking about how they where not permitted through security, but that they wanted the public to know if someone calls 911, that they will go through security regardless.

                Basically, the union can say they will boycott the games, but the reality is, the Police officers love it as a nice perk to the job. Free access to sporting events and often best view of the game if they are the officers down on the field, and since it’s on a volunteer basis, you can bet it’s nothing but a hollow threat.

            2. Kaepernick is a small-dick bitch.

              And I’m not surprised that Cosmo Ed is upset that other people are expressing political views at work.

              Kaepernick has right to act like a douche at work and the right to get fired for it. So does everyone else.

              1. I find that, without exception, guys who talk about others’ dick size are really insecure about their own.

                1. Hmmm, that’s quite an admission.

          1. And somehow, I have the feeling that if you told them they would only have the same privileges as the local mall ninja when they handled the event, they wouldn’t do it.

            1. the local mall ninja

              Private security face 90% of the threatening situations faced by the police, and get 0% of the protection from their union, 0% of the fear and respect, and often 0% of the ability to carry a gun.

              I suggest that they may, therefore, be more deserving of your respect than the police.

              1. The local Mall Ninja. Fixed.

              2. I’d like to see the statistics backing up that Hyperbole. Mall security DOES NOT do domestic violence calls which are some of the most dangerous calls, walking into someone else’s home where emotions are already running high enough to call 911. Pulling cars over on dark highways with cars racing by at high speed as you approach an unknown subject hidden inside their vehicle… sorry again NOT a threat Mall security faces. Also most the time, if Mall security DOES have to face a genuine threat, they hand it over to the Police ASAP.

                As for lack of respect…yes… but then most of them think they ARE police officers.

                It reminds me of a security guard I used to see around San Jose. He purchased a Surplus CHP motorcycle, and had a Blue and Gold Helmet like CHP wear. In his security guard Uniform, he would often fool people into thinking he was CHP. As bad as Police can be, Wanna be’s like this guy are far worse, and Thank good he does not have the ability to carry a gun.

                1. and Thank good he does not have the ability to carry a gun.

                  Nice principles you got there, buddy.

          2. Wrong. They are working off-duty as paid security.

            The Santa Clara Police Department is the lead police agency at Levi’s Stadium. During 49er games, around 70 officers volunteer to work and are paid as security personnel.

            1. If you are paid you arent a volunteer.

              1. That is incorrect.

                We have a volunteer military whose members are nonetheless paid.

                If you volunteer for the overnight shift at work, you still get paid for that work.

                1. Wendys also has a volunteer work force whose members are nonetheless paid.

                2. It’s still correct to call them out as shitty human beings.

                3. With respect to the military – which LEO’s are not, they are just civilians – the ‘volunteer’ distinction is in contrast to *conscripted* (ie, slaves).

                  *You* volunteered to work at your regular job – you wouldn’t say you volunteered to work there (even though you, and they, freely agreed to it) because for normal employment ‘volunteer’ is understood to mean without pay.

                  1. And there go the goalposts. But not nearly far enough to save your point.

                    for normal employment ‘volunteer’ is understood to mean without pay.

                    Not always. Managers commonly ask paid employees for “volunteers” to do some unpleasant assignment, for which they will still be paid.

        2. Yeah, I’m pretty sure they volunteer to provide security. Everyone should be free to volunteer or not volunteer.

          Isn’t free association a libertarian thing.

          1. CA law is pretty clear regarding peace officers. It’s a paramilitary organization. If your boss tells you to work, you work. Up to 18 hours a day, indefinitely.

            1. According to the article, they’re not working for the police department at Levi’s, they’re working as private security for the 49ers.

              1. Also, fuck you.

              2. LEO’s do not work as private security – they work as LEO’s being paid by a private organization. And most times that arrangement is not voluntary on the part of the payee. They are often mandated as having to hire LEO’s to provide security.

                These guys are not being paid by the team, the team is paying the police department who is paying these guys.

    2. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do… http://www.14earnpath.com

      1. But did you volunteer?

    3. I am making $92/hour working from home. I never thought that it was legitimate but my best friend is earning $14 thousand a month by working online, that was really surprising for me, she recommended me to try it. just try it out on the following website…go to this website and click to Tech tab for more work details… http://goo.gl/RSVRhj

    1. Once again, the problem is a government imposed monopoly. Legalize competing police agencies. Or why can’t they hire private security instead?

      And you know the best thing for inflammatory statements? Ibuprofen.

      1. Competing police agencies!! Brilliant!!

        Chicago pigs vs NYC Swine

        Imagine the shootouts!

        The mutt shooting contests!

        Evidence planting contests – pin the dope on the perp!

        1. Last time I checked, Pinkerton officers haven’t shot anyone let alone got into a beef with Metrol.

      2. Legalize competing police agencies.

        You come home to see your nextdoor neighbor walking off with your big screen TV. You call private police agency A who dutifully sends a squad of officers over to the neighbor, where they encounter a squad from private police Agency B who say that you’re a rotten liar and that’s totally their client’s lawfully purchased TV.

        And then…. ?

  2. Let’s see here. The rest of the 49ers players didn’t do anything. The 100,000? fans planning to attend the game didn’t do anything.

    The Santa Clara police are going to punish all of these people because of what a backup quarterback said?

    1. The Santa Clara police are going to punish all of these people because of what a backup quarterback said?

      Yes, Playa. By attending the 49ers game they’re showing support for the one football player whose actions (not standing for the anthem) and words (which, as we’re learning, can actually cause harm to protected classes of people).

      It’s guilt by association, and they must be made to suffer.

      Recall the New York Police Department’s refusal to do their jobs when they were upset by what the mayor and some other people had said? The whole city was “punished” by them not doing their jobs.

      This is how a number individuals in law enforcement think and operate. I’ve posted here before how a buddy of mine was told by his police officer friend that, in order to punish the citizens of their city for complaining about police misconduct and generally being insufficiently supportive of the police, the police took a vote to decide whether or not to have a “Blue Flu” where a majority of the force would call out sick.

      When asked if that was fair to all of the good people in the community, the police officer pointed out that what was truly unfair was how the police were being treated.

      1. Well, yeah. They are the only ones who matter. They serve the public. The public is everyone else. No individual represents the public. No individual matters at all. Those people who will be punished by police inaction are all individuals. They don’t matter a bit. Only the public servants matter because they serve the public.

    2. It’s funny to watch Reason commenters vacillate between hatred of cops, urging people to never call the police, and complaining about police presence in the community on the one hand, and crying foul when the police “punish” people by not attending football games on the other.

      But I get it, the police are always wrong regardless of what they do.

      1. Cops are a necessary evil. However, being necessary doesn’t mitigate the evil.

        1. A State monopoly on police is an unnecessary evil.

      2. Your hyperbole, strawmen, and general lack of critical reasoning are all duly noted. People are protesting police brutality and overreach – bad policing – and not all police and all policing. People are upset that these cops are refusing to do their duty because of WHY they are refusing: because someone’s speech has offended their delicate sensibilities. They are trying to compel that speech they don’t like be punished, or else they are going to throw a little bitch fit. It’s a totalitarian pussy move.

  3. Threatening not to perform your duties

    I am confused.

    Doesn’t Reason oppose the public-funding of sporting facilities? I presume that would include providing city-financed police security for private sporting events?

    Why exactly are city-cops obligated to work football games? do they not have other ‘duties’ which don’t involve subsidizing stadium-owner security expenses and ensuring multi-millionaire athletes are free from criticism?

    I do think its generally improper for the police to pick and choose their jobs, but in this case, isn’t this a role which Reason has consistently objected to for some time?

    1. I think it’s called “unconstitutional conditions.”

      The government can’t condition the receipt of a public benefit on the waiver of First Amendment rights.

      They can’t say “we’ll provide you with police protection if you fire an employee who said stuff we don’t like.”

      If such a thing as that were legal, the police unions would be the first to suffer.

      Do they want to go back to the bad old days, when the reigning legal dogma was stated by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes: “a policeman may have a constitutional right to talk politics, but he has no constitutional right to be a policeman.”

      The government would be able to fire any police officer who criticized his/her employer, or the taxpayers, or joined a union, or whatever.

      1. Or as the government interprets it, “this businessman may have the right to criticize the mayor, but he doesn’t have the right not to be subject to lots of surprise safety inspections of his premises.”

        “This motorist may have a right to oppose the proposed bond issue, but he has no right not to get pulled over several times over the course of several weeks and get speeding tickets.”

        See how this works?

      2. The government can’t condition the receipt of a public benefit on the waiver of First Amendment rights.

        No, i completely understand that. But its ignoring my point which is that providing security for football games is a *private benefit*. There’s no reason NFL or stadium owners shouldn’t be providing its own security. The city-police are no more necessary-security at this event than they are at my niece’s birthday party, or a movie-theater matinee. This isn’t some supreme-court-approved KKK-demonstration in the city-square which police are being compelled to protect. Its paid entertainment.

        1. I get it – I’m saying that if subsidized security services are a bad thing, they’re a bad thing *regardless* of what Kapernick (sp?) says or doesn’t say.

          So even if Kaparnick personally puts on pom-poms and cheers the police and throws flowers at them, the police *still* shouldn’t be providing subsidized security.

          But alas, that’s not the dispute we’re having.

          The dispute we’re having is, as I understand it, that the police are offering subsidized security if, and only if, Kapernick’s employer acts against him for his speech.

          And that is a separate and independent complaint which the public is entitled to make against the government – they’re using subsidies to erode First Amendment rights.

          1. if subsidized security services are a bad thing, they’re a bad thing *regardless* of what Kapernick (sp?) says or doesn’t say.

            Right. And i was pointing out that subsidized security services are something that has been opposed by this mag for as long as i can recall.

            if police stop accepting overtime from this particular provider, why shouldn’t the venue find other people? Are we to expect that the City orders them to do it now? Under what authority?

            the police are offering subsidized security if, and only if, Kapernick’s employer acts against him for his speech.

            That’s a false choice. the stadium is certainly free to ignore them and get its own goon-squad. Why are the police necessary here? there’s no leverage if we actually believe that they’re NOT necessary. I don’t see how you can claim they’re unfairly using leverage that doesn’t/shouldn’t exist in the first place. and they can’t erode anyone’s first amendment rights that they aren’t necessary to guarantee either.

            1. It’s simply really Reason opposes cops more than it opposes government subsidies of private businesses. Kind of like how Reason really really hates national sovereignty but only kind of sorta begrudges the welfare state.

              1. ^This

                Progtarians do not violate their progressive principles, therefore they have to violate their libertarian ones.

              2. Tulpa! You’ve dusted off “Sam Haysom” again!!!

                /retro trolling

            2. As I see it, it’s possible for a government policy to be wrong on several levels simultaneously.

              First in offering subsidized security at all, then in making it conditional on the surrender of constitutional rights.

              Now, if the attempted bribe/threat doesn’t work because the arena can get its own security without too much fuss, it’s *still* an attempted bribe/threat.

              1. If you’re able to outrun a would-be rapist because he’s too fat, the fact still remains that it was an attempted rape which should be punished.

                1. Ted Kennedy was not slim. Wonder if your hypothetical has an historical basis.

                2. STEVE SMITH BEEN WORKING HARD ON CORE! FEEL LIKE PUNISHMENT ENOUGH ALREADY

        2. Interestingly, here’s a piece from last week where a former LA councilman is suing the city of LA and the Rams alleging providing security is an “illegal gift.”

          1. the police are offering subsidized security if, and only if, Kapernick’s employer acts against him for his speech.

            I presume (w/o reading it) that’s a position that the magazine would normally agree with.

            Why then would Reason here argue that the police have any *obligation* to provide services to a private actor?

            1. whoops, sorry, the quote was supposed to be your note about “Providing security being an illegal gift”

              OT = my l-ctrl button broke last night. Anyone know if there’s a fix for when individual keys on a keyboard start to go to shit? I have a backup keyboard in the closet behind me, but this is an old Dell one which is… well, much nicer. I’m tempted to pry the key off and ‘jiggle and qtip‘ the thing, but i expect all that i will accomplish is breaking the stem, and leaving a missing hole on the keyboard.

              1. you should really be able to clear any obstruction with a bent paper clip and a can of air. If there’s nothing blocking the key travel then the switch contacts are on their way out, and replacing the switch is likely the only recourse. My brother, with limited previous soldering experience, actually performed that repair for one of the buttons on his m570 trackball. Meanwhile, I, with far more electronics experience, just opted to buy another trackball when my left button went janky. “They put that shit together with robots, no way I’m attempting it”, says I, then my brother goes and puts me to shame.

                btw, janky buttons aside, my wrist and I love the m570 and highly recommend it.

                1. oh, of course, that’s IF your keyboard uses switches. membranes, just toss it and find a new keyboard you like.

                2. I will probably try canned-air. The key still works, but only about once per 100 presses

                  probably time for one of those new individual-switched keyboards. i can’t stand the plastic crap that shipped with this PC.

                3. If you’re going to use the M750 you *have* to learn how to solder the button switches.

                  I finally gave up on them – typically I was only getting a single year out of them before the LMB started going janky. The buttons are a known quality failure for that model trackball and you can find tons of tutorials showing you how to fix them.

                  Its too bad though – its damn near impossible to find any other trackballs nowadays.

            2. My bad, the article was in the LA Times not in reason.

            3. They don’t have an obligation. All of this is done under contract. The Dodgers pay for every LAPD officer at their games. USC pays for all of the LAPD officers at their football games. UCLA pays for all of the Pasadena police at their football games, although the UCPD is there on regular duty.

              The problem is that the Rams didn’t pay for shit. And they aren’t even a Los Angeles team. The stadium is going to be in Inglewood.

          2. Dennis Zine is right. And he’s a retired LAPD sergeant.

        3. Meh, police can arrest and detain people in ways private security can’t.

          If you run a stadium, that distinction may be important to you.

          Doesn’t really mean police should be paid to be there tho.

          1. It should mean the stadium/NFL should pay the salaries of any police that are serving specifically for security.

              1. Weren’t you just saying the police are working on duty at the stadium?

        4. Dayum, Gilmore. Next thing ya know you’ll be calling for the abolishment of the TSA and saying that the airlines should provide their own security.

          1. ?

            I have (and many others have) done so before.

            1. I was being sarcastic. Or trying, anyway.

          2. If you fly private charter you bypass the TSA.
            Last week:
            5:55 am – arrived at airport
            5:56 am – spoke with pilot
            5:57 am – visited restroom.
            6:03 am – boarded plane
            6:10 am – takeoff

            1. *stamps foot in jealous rage*

            2. If you have the bux to do this, it makes more sense than owning an aircraft. You don’t pay the cost of avgas, hangarage, licensing, etc.

              1. Do chartered planes not use fuel or require licenses, but are powered by rainbows and unicorn farts?

                1. They’re powered by Galt devices, duh.

      3. The government can’t condition the receipt of a public benefit on the waiver of First Amendment rights.

        They can’t say “we’ll provide you with police protection if you fire an employee who said stuff we don’t like.”

        They would have the same police protection as the rest of us do. A phone to call 911 and wait for the police to get there from the nearest station. There’s no constitutional right to have police hang out at your party to provide security.

        What the police are providing the 49ers is a special subsidy, which absolutely can be conditioned on what you express and who you associate with.

    2. Since the venue is already publicly funded you might as well receive the benefits, which include security already paid for. You’re not getting that money back.

      1. That doesn’t make any sense. Because the *building* of the facility was financed with taxpayer money, city cops are now obligated to ALSO provide perpetual security per-gratis?

        1. Aren’t they also obligated to provide security to any other city property or public area if the city asks?

          1. Plus it’s not just the stadium that’s financed by taxpayer money, the cops salaries are too.

            1. Not sure about the 9ers stadium, but the Giants pay 100% of the police costs for the events there, either baseball or any other event, including OT.

          2. city property or public area

            which the stadium isn’t

            re: Sevo

            Sevo|9.3.16 @ 2:10PM| block | mute | #

            Not sure about the 9ers stadium, but the Giants pay 100% of the police costs for the events there

            I presume the 49r franchise also pays the cops an agreed upon rate, and its all OT. That they pay isn’t disputed ; the issue is whether the city is supposed to *force* cops to provide their services to private entities if they have a disagreement (as they seem to here)

            My point is simply that this isn’t a public-service guaranteed by the state; i’m not sure why police are obligated to service private entities (*that they’re permitted to is a separate issue entirely.)

            1. “My point is simply that this isn’t a public-service guaranteed by the state; i’m not sure why police are obligated to service private entities”

              As employees, I’d guess they’re required to do as directed by the management.

              1. As employees, I’d guess they’re required to do as directed by the management.

                Except if there’s a “stand when the song plays” clause?

                1. GILMORE?|9.3.16 @ 2:29PM|#
                  As employees, I’d guess they’re required to do as directed by the management.

                  “Except if there’s a “stand when the song plays” clause?”

                  Yeah, G, can you come up with more pedantic hypotheticals? What’s your point?

                  1. can you come up with more pedantic hypotheticals? What’s your point?

                    that people seem to think the wording of contracts is so sacrosanct, when the very issue that this whole signaling-exercise surrounds is “A guy refusing to do what his co-workers are all doing”

                    people seem to think its wonderful when multimillionaires act petulant and refuse to play along with their employers requests (*”just shut up and protest America on your own time”)

                    but when disfavored outgroups (‘cops’) do the same thing, and refuse to do what their employers demand (provide security for multimillionaires playground)… why, its a travesty and a breach of contract and an offense to public decency etc. etc.

                    No one else seems to think its funny.

              2. Yes. The contract is negotiated by management. No professional sports franchise would move into a city without having a long term contract in place.

                The employees do what the fuck they’re told. If police employees don’t show up to their assignments, they should be summarily fired.

                1. What you describe seems to me a showdown between the 49rs suing the city for breach of contract, and the Police Union suing the city for breach of contract.

                  Your easy move from “voluntary” to “mandatory” leaves enough room for lawyers to have a field-day in.

                  1. The 49ers can contract with the county sheriff instead, and yes, they can sue the city. I’m sure they have a contingency plan.

                    When I was involved with the planning of the World Games for the Special Olympics, we had several agreements in place. Fortunately, since we’re a charity, a lot of police agencies donated their time.

                    1. The nut of this debate was really about whether or not the city police are somehow “violating CK’s Free Speech” by refusing to service the 49rs events.

                      My point was that
                      a) that’s bullshit, and the 49rs aren’t required to use city cops – and according to Reason-dogma, *shouldn’t be using them in the first place*, and
                      b) individual cops choice to work these events at all is entirely voluntary

                      (acknowledging the city has a contract w/ the franchise which would expose them to liability)

                      i don’t necessarily agree with the stupid police decision to make an issue out of this. but i also don’t think the 49rs especially deserve to have their actual events treated like constitutionally protected ‘speech’ which the state is obligated to defend.

                      I also think its odd that people are so quick to defend CK’s “act of conscience” as a multi-millionaire asshat … yet when police decide they’re going to engage in some similar grand-standing over some stupid-PR-debate, they’re violating the public trust by refusing to work a football game.

                      I think its just a conceptual mess, and the only right-view is “Fuck em all” because there are no good-guys here, just competing PR claims.

                    2. Regarding a) that is conditioned upon a truly private stadium. Think about the how private universities that receive government financing obligate them to Title IX under terms of the agreement for the funds.

                    3. re: a) i don’t see what taxpayer-subsidy to the *development* of a sports stadium has anything to do with subsidizing its upkeep/security costs.

                      As noted in multiple places above – they can contract with anyone to provide security. that they do with the city is an entirely separate issue from the fact that they got ‘tax benefits’ in their development.

                      not sure what the second point there is re: title IX. that’s federal law.

                    4. I brought up title ix as an analogy. The cops are jobs themselves are publicly financed so if the city taxpayers wanted the cops to provide non-OT security services to a stadium built with taxpayer money then that alone should be reason enough.

                      Given the additional agreement the police have with the city and the stadium I don’t see the how they can legitimately renege.

                    5. I also think its odd that people are so quick to defend CK’s “act of conscience” as a multi-millionaire asshat … yet when police decide they’re going to engage in some similar grand-standing over some stupid-PR-debate, they’re violating the public trust by refusing to work a football game.

                      One of the groups in question makes a big deal out of a quasi-mystical “public service” they engage in while doing their jobs, which they use to justify a bunch of special privileges. The other group is a rich guy who plays football.

                      It seems reasonable to me to criticize the police for the transparent flimsiness of their supposed moral mandate to serve. The same critique does not seem to work on the football player.

            2. I stand corrected about the OT pay, but as far as I’m concerned about property, though it may be “private” in title anything that is publicly financed (*should*) gives over control to the taxpayers who financed it.

        2. A mortgage holder will not shovel your driveway in the winter.

          1. Well they should if it’s in the contract. The lender is still the boss until he’s paid back.

          2. That lazy bastard.

    3. “Why are cops obligated to work at football games”

      That’s the thing about right-wingers. You don’t hear much from them as long as sports’ teams are praising the military or waving the flag, but the minute some Black guy starts to talk about injustice and ye olde song about the glories of slavery and imperialism they’re out gnashing their teeth looking to withdraw the cops from protecting someone’s free speech. Presumably– free of state protection– these fans would probably enjoy something like a lynching. That’s probably what he deserves, anyway.

      1. “these fans would probably enjoy something like a lynching”

        Your mask is slipping.

        1. Bay Area people probably would enjoy lynching Trump.

      2. “That’s the thing about right-wingers. You don’t hear much from them as long as sports’ teams are praising the military or waving the flag, but the minute some Black guy starts to talk about injustice and ye olde song about the glories of slavery and imperialism they’re out gnashing their teeth looking to withdraw the cops from protecting someone’s free speech.”

        That’s the thing about brain-dead lefties; always hearing voices in their heads.
        You need to find some right-wing site to pester.

      3. Presumably– free of state protection– these fans would probably enjoy something like a lynching.

        In Santa Clara? You truly have gone off the deep end.

    4. If they are paid to work the stadium they should work the stadium. Pretty basic stuff.

      1. That’s where this gets interesting. Special Events are all overtime, and theoretically, voluntary. There would be a sign up sheet in the briefing room where officers decide if they want to work the games at time and a half. For an event as large as an NFL game, this would have taken place several months ago.

        So this means that officers who signed up are now refusing to show up, either by calling in sick, or by going MIA.

        1. “Special Events are all overtime, and theoretically, voluntary”

          Re: my reply to G.
          If they are voluntary, then there should be no employee/management issue; in that case, I stand corrected.

          1. If the city has an obligation to provide X number of officers and not enough signed up voluntarily, it becomes mandatory.

            The officers with the least amount of seniority will get “volunteered” by management.

            1. How is a police force obligated to provide security at a private event?

              1. The team is contracting with the city to provide the police and is the one paying for it.

                You can argue whether a city should have the right to use its police force like this, but considering the size of the mass gathering, it’s well down my list of libertarian purity issues.

            2. “The officers with the least amount of seniority will get “volunteered” by management.”

              So it’s NOT voluntary?
              In which case, the boss says: Get your ass in gear!
              Are you and G involved in some sort of semantic tennis match?

              1. It’s voluntary until it isn’t. That’s what the contract says.

                1. Its a good thing lawyers don’t ever dispute what contracts mean.

        2. Since it’s OT and since this is SF area, I’m assuming these cops will be giving up, what 70 or 80 bucks an hour? – to stand around at a football game? So I guess it’s kind of a principled stand, whether I agree or not.

    5. It’s all overtime. The NFL cuts the city a check per officer working the game.

      And yes, if the city issued an operating permit to the NFL, they are required to provide the necessary police services.

      If they don’t, the NFL will just contact out to the County Sheriff, the CHP, and possibly the UCPD. The game will go on, and Santa Clara will look like assholes.

      1. A couple of years ago, we went to a Paul McCartney concert that was the last event ever at San Francisco’s Candlestick Park (which was also somewhat memorable as it had been the last-ever site of a Beatles’ concert). Despite what must have been an enormous financial haul (>50,000 fans at around $200 per ticket, plus $12 cans of beer, other concessions, etc.) the promoters decided to use private security to handle the parking lots and roadways rather than paying the police OT as the 49ers always had at the place.

        Not sure exactly whether it was the security company’s incompetence or the police having some sort of ‘oh yeah?’ involvement, but it was probably the biggest traffic morass in the city’s history. We were parked in an outlying lot so should have been on the road relatively early, but no cars moved an inch for hours in our lot. We fortunately had lawn chairs, so we just sat outside and nursed our remaining tailgate beers while we watched people actually sit in their cars idling in place for several hours. The concert ended at 11pm, and the first cars in our lot finally started to move at 2:30am. We finally got out of the lot at 3am and still had a 45-minute drive home after that.

        The lesson, I guess, was don’t underestimate what can happen when you ignore the local cops’ wishes at a major stadium event.

        1. I doubt the police would even allow it on public property. Traffic control at Dodger Stadium is all private, but as soon as you get on to public property, it’s all LAPD/DOT.

          1. Which I think is why it was such a clusterfuck that night. We didn’t see any police the entire time. I think their approach was, “don’t want to hire us to do the event? Good luck getting 30,000 cars on to the roads without our help.”

            One of the principal causes of the long jam seemed to be a stoplight on the main drag that wouldn’t allow more than two cars through on a green, and then turned red again for over a minute with zero traffic in the perpendicular green direction. Cops would have overriden the signal and waved everyone through, end of problem.

            1. One of the principal causes of the long jam seemed to be a stoplight on the main drag that wouldn’t allow more than two cars through on a green, and then turned red again for over a minute with zero traffic in the perpendicular green direction.

              It’s almost like the actual problem is a legal regime which would render running such a red light defacto illegal, even though every person in miles benefits and no person is harmed.

      2. I was actually curious if they _do_ pay the city.

        They don’t pay for their stadiums, so I wouldn’t be surprised about them cronying it up for protection.

  4. NO OBEDIENCE NO PEACE. And no overtime, I guess.

    1. Oh, I’m sure there’s something written into the union contract that guarantees the overtime pay, even if they don’t work.

  5. All it takes to get you guys to stop working is a bad quarterback who won’t stand up for a song?

    Jay Glaser said a few days ago that Kapernick had lost a lot of weight after having three surgeries this summer, and had regressed as a quarterback to the point where he could have been off the roster for non-football reasons.

    1. It’s a shame the 9ers didn’t accept Denver’s offer of a buck fifty; he’s not worth a whole lot more.

      1. I believe your boy Kap shot that down (as he should have) because the Broncos wanted him to take a pay cut.

        1. racist

    2. All it takes to get you guys to stop working is a bad quarterback who won’t stand up for a song?

      JE SUIS KANYE

      1. Good lord I knew he was a douchebag but that is… wow.

      2. Truly world class douchebaggery. Sounds like a South Park gag.

    3. Yep, this whole thing is a “now you can’t fee me move”.

      Funny how taking progressive stands make one unfireable, while taking conservative stances make one unemployable.

      So the left has free speech and the libertarians all cheer while the right ends up on the street and the libertarians all cheer….

  6. Pigs gotta wallow in the mud. They care not for anyone’s right,just their pwn feeling of self importance

  7. Police boycotts end up backfiring – they prove the police aren’t really necessary after all. Of course, they are running a protection racket, but in the age of the panopticon their tactics are easy to identify so they won’t risk it.

    1. Which is why they will end up working the event – and will be on their best behavior. K’s little protest was kind of brilliant even if it backfired – the police will be less violent, which will ultimately discredit his socialist police-state agenda.

        1. Shriek has been hitting what coke he can afford, again.

  8. I’d consider that a resignation. No more paycheck. Benies go bye-bye. And no morw aurhoritah. Next.

    1. Fire cops for not providing entirely voluntary OT service to a private entity?

      You must be trolling on behalf of police-union lawyers.

      1. Is the police department’s employer obligated to provide security?

        If they have already committed to the assignment not showing up is derelict of duty. This isn’t failing to being the chili to annual Christmas party when you indicated you would.

        I want butt-hurt cops that back put of paid commitments terminated and how does that bolster an LEO union?

        1. Is the police department’s employer obligated to provide security?

          this is debated in detail above, and the short answer is, “they have a contract, but if they employees protest, there’s not fuck all the city can do to force them to work private events”

          how does that bolster an LEO union?

          You fire cops for refusing to do “voluntary OT duty”, you’re giving the Police Union a lawsuit they can win blindfolded.

          1. I think he’s talking about the ones who signed up for the OT duty, and then backed out.

            1. the ones who signed up for the OT duty, and then backed out.

              Sounds to me like a distinction w/o a difference and something easily dismissed; when do they ‘sign up’? and do they never otherwise change personnel ? if no one volunteers to cover for anyone who refuses, then it will eventually require the city turning ‘voluntary duty’ into something mandated and you will be deep in the weeds of the kind of contractual bullshit that unions thrive in. And they pretty much always win, if not because of any legal advantage, but because of mere public-goodwill issues. The city isn’t going to side w/ some super-rich sports franchise over the claimed interests of police officers, and if they did there would be political pain to suffer.

              1. If the police union hijacks an NFL game and the game is postponed or moved to another location where many of the ticket holders can’t relay get to at least some will be pissed at the cops. Though I imagine the mainstream, suburbia NFL fan would side with the heroe in blue over the backup QB.

                1. If the police union hijacks an NFL game

                  The stadium operators aren’t beholden to the police. They can have their event with cops, without cops, or with different people providing security.

                  Pretending that the police have veto power over the event is exactly the false-pretense we rebutted above here.

                  1. Apparently they might be beholden to the police per the local NBC story I linked. Or at least the city. And the city has the contract for the event.

                    Do you have links to the city-to-police contract, the team-stadium contract, and that entity with city-police?

                  2. “The stadium operators aren’t beholden to the police. They can have their event with cops, without cops, or with different people providing security.”

                    I bet you the operating permit says otherwise.

                    We had a shooting at a movie theater in the next city over (El Segundo), and that theater isn’t allowed to operate anymore unless they pay for 2 cops in the lobby on Fridays and Saturdays.

          2. And someone here has reviewed the Santa Clara police contract?

            Per this story hiring additional officers to cover for the locals that sit it out may be a breach of contract. If you have to use local labor I’m suprised that there isn’t an out when that labor is not available.

            1. as we already said here

              What you describe seems to me a showdown between the 49rs suing the city for breach of contract, and the Police Union suing the city for breach of contract.

              No one has any particular authority which guarantees their claim above others.

              Whether the city would sue the 49rs for using outside services when their own cops are refusing to work strikes me as the least-likely of all potential scenarios pursued.

              Just because they have certain claims under their contract doesn’t mean they have to exercise them if they conflict with their own internal ‘labor issues’.

              All we’re doing is going in circles here. The summary hasn’t changed. No one has any particular moral (or legal) authority here.

              1. Without the actual contracts all you are doing is conjecturing.

                1. I think its not unreasonable to assume that in any choice between “fucking over the a local sports franchise” and “fucking over their own police force” that a city would generally side with its municipal unions.

                  particularly if the weight of political support is on the side of the whiny cops. which is definitely debatable. It *is* San Francisco.

                  1. The NFL’s lawyers are better than the city’s, and they make about 10 times as much. I’m sure they planned for this.

                    1. The NFL’s lawyers are better than the city’s,

                      sure, but that doesn’t really change the calculus i described. the NFL can win any petty squabble and still end up losing a lot of goodwill that they’d prefer to keep.

                      i personally think that local-voters’ opinion on the validity of each side’s grievances is probably more influential. I’d probably expect san franciscans to collectively back the Cop-Hating, Non-Playing Overpaid Muslim Quarterback… and that the SFPD will ultimately have to back down from their own ‘protest’ and go back to earning those sweet OT hours.

                    2. The NFL has a lot more juice in smaller cities like Santa Clara (pop. 115,000) and Inglewood (pop. 110,000).

                      They can make or break the city budget, and the voters know it.

                    3. oh, i assumed they were incorporated in “greater SF” or something

                    4. Nah. If they were in SF, they’d have no juice.

                      The city of SF’s budget is bigger than the State of Arizona’s.

                  2. The city will first have to abide by the contracts. The NFL somehow made itself tax exempt so they probably didn’t get their contract from LegalZoom.com. But without the contracts to review it is just guessing.

          3. “You fire cops for refusing to do “voluntary OT duty”, you’re giving the Police Union a lawsuit they can win blindfolded.”

            Nope. If they signed up (which they did), they have to show up. I don’t give a fuck if they don’t like the assignment. They’re assigned to it now. Period.

            I don’t know about other states, but police and fire aren’t allowed to strike here. Show up, or lose your job.

            Sick out? Signed doctor’s note and lab work from everyone.

            1. If they signed up (which they did), they have to show up. I don’t give a fuck if they don’t like the assignment. They’re assigned to it now. Period … police and fire aren’t allowed to strike here.

              a strike is a strike when they call it a strike. But when they want to strike but “can’t” strike? they don’t call it a strike.

              You seem to put a hefty amount of credence in paper-rules when what we’re talking about is competing political interests with equally flexible legal claims.

              A number of municipal unions in NYC are “not allowed to strike

              The TWA still stopped working in 2005, has conducted shutdowns/slowdowns and no-shows many times since. The city went after them under the law in 2005, but they ‘play ball’ in smaller quasi-striking cases (like this particular tempest in a teapot)

              if the cops decide they’re all calling in sick, i sincerely doubt you’re going to see anyone canned. *Could they* be canned? maybe. but i doubt it.

  9. Jesus. High school was more mature than this bullshit.

    “He hurt our feelings, so we’re gonna cry and whine until someone beats him up!”

    1. As opposed to Reason’s totally mature position that these cops suck for refusing to do something we complain about them doing. That’s actually one of the more cynical arguments I’ve ever seen.

      Honestly I think it would be good if Reason just explicitly adopted the point of view that pigs suck. It would be an issue they would have completely to themselves. There’s a lot of people out their with unresolved daddy issues that like to rage against authority this might be the issue that gets libertarians to five percent.

      1. Police officers derive their authority from their law enforcement duties. If there is no reason to believe a law has been broken, then they have absolutely no legitimate authority. None.

        Maybe people might respect them more if they didn’t strut around like peacocks exacting violence on anyone who doesn’t immediately obey their every whim, regardless of if any law has been broken, and then get pissy like little girls whenever anyone points this fact out.

      2. Oh, and fuck you Tulpa.

      3. Even weaker than usual, Tulpa.

  10. OT, but Steam’s weekend sale is all Paradox Interactive titles and DLC.

    So if you want to save Europe from refugees or just make a ton of refugees yourself, now is the time.

    Or if you want to spread the Enlightenment in what social justice warriors call ‘ the best genocide simulator ever’.

    1. Or live the libertarian dream of legalized orphan workers.

      Come and embrace our boring looking map games with a massive amount of depth that literally take several days to learn how to play! Caution: May result in several hundred hours of playtime.

      1. Its an Alt-Right video-game developer?

      2. Cities:Skylines (insert city planner comment) and Pillars of Eternity (very Baldur’s Gatish type of RPG, but alas I don’t have a political slant on it) are both great pickups.

    2. And if you want to conquer entire countries’ worth of Religion of Peace territory with medieval Christ-fags, there’s that option too.

      1. -Pope declares Crusade on Abbasids, the massive Muslim empire, for Jerusalem.
        -I’m the bloody Duke of some Polish shithole.
        -Pope is upset with me for not joining in, eventually I agree to it. I don’t have any boats, so I guess I’m walking.
        -Walk across most of Eastern Europe and Anatolia, finally get to the Levant, which is full of the armies of actually important European kingdoms like England, France, Italy, etc.
        -Everyone is losing battles with the Abbasids where tens of thousands of troops are fighting. I have eleven hundred.
        -Sneak past the big fights and stand on Jerusalem for a month, get the Crusader trait, which makes people like me more.
        -My mission complete, I attempt to escape the Levant, and run into a smaller army of only two hundred guys.
        -We win, but my character falls off his horse and get the ‘Incapable’ trait from brain damage.
        -Everyone back home both loves me for being a Crusader and hates me for being retarded.
        -Crusade fails horribly, I die like a year later. End up playing as two year old.

        Crusades, kids. Not even once.

    3. Of course the Stellaris plant people DLC isn’t discounted.

      Because 8 bucks for an animated GIF.

    4. “OT, but Steam’s weekend sale is all Paradox Interactive titles and DLC.”

      That sentence might as well have been written in Mandarin. I guess this is some type of gamer thing, so I will back slowly away.

    5. Don’t you tempt me.

  11. This is the very professional reaction of a truly professional organization.

  12. To clarify:

    The Santa Clara police union leadership has no apparent problem with sitting down during the national anthem, or being unpatriotic during football games in general, or the tarring of the entire country as racist.

    They simply don’t like the one part of Kaepernick’s motivation that has some connection to reality — that the poor actions of the police in interacting with the citizenry reflects poorly on our country.

    The Santa Clara police have decided not to do the thing that they are paid to do for the people in that stadium who are paying their taxes, as a response to an accurate criticism of their profession by one person.

    Bang-up job proving Kaepernick wrong, there

    1. Good to know where we “civilians” stand. His sitting down for the anthem didn’t bother them. But Jesus Christ — do NOT dare to wear piggy socks. That is a bridge too far.

      1. Twenty years ago I got a bullshit $15 parking ticket. In the memo on the check I wrote, “Feed and clothe pigs.” They cashed it.

  13. Coming soon to the land of the free? Decision to deny surgery to obese patients is like ‘racial discrimination’

    The Vale of York clinical commissioning group (CCG) will make people wait for up to a year for treatment for non-life-threatening conditions such as hip and knee replacements if their body mass index is 30 or higher.

    The group said it had taken the decision because it was the “best way of achieving maximum value from the limited resources available”.

    Mine is 27 and I am only obese where it counts.*

    *My heart.

        1. Isn’t single-payer health care wonderful?

          I should print this out for the idiot in the cubicle next to me who already bitches about her doctors’ comments on her morbid obesity.

          She’s the idiot who prompted me to ask here the other day about the H&R commenter with the cannabis oil shtick. She also seems to think the government has to pay attention to change.org petitions if they get enough signatures.

    1. Sorta like old people not named Dick Cheney denied heart transplants. Or drunks not named Mickey Mantle not getting a new liver.

      1. To both Cheney and Mantle:

        1) Both bore the brunt of the entire cost of the transplant; most private insurances that cover transplants, only cover so much, and the patient is responsible for the rest. Most folks don’t have that much scratch laying about.

        2) The most important over-riding factor: Tissue Match/MHC compatibility. Whoever is the best match at the time wins. Period. Full Stop. End of story.

        Admittedly, Cheney was over the cut-off age, so being a former Veep I am quite sure didn’t hurt, but even then, tissue match overrides that. Mantle was below the cut age. CMS, aka Medicare/Caid do NOT cover transplants, but CMS supplemental policies do, or did, anyway.

        The only recent exception I can think of that selfish little girl who went through not one, but TWO sets of adult lungs because she tugged at America’s Heart Strings, killing at least two other waiting recipients (at least one adult for the adult lungs, and another older child who was sicker, but the best match for the first set of lungs) who were better matches (at least she didn’t reject the second set of lungs).

        FYI, citizens in the UK can purchase private insurance and pay for private care in toto, but it is generally prohibitively expensive for most there. Which is why I and my wife deal with a number of patients who go the medical tourism route.

          1. +1 child molester kidney

    2. My heart, too, is little more than a spongy colony of bacon fat — held together with gin-soaked olives and cigar smoke.

    3. $ is the best way of achieving maximum value from the limited resources available.

  14. elements of the left have been pushing the idea that words can be harassment and even violence

    Elements such as Bay area public employee unions.

    1. Words like violence
      Break the silence
      Come crashing in
      Into my little world….

  15. This is what the 49s get for putting their stadium in flyover country.

    1. Did not even know that Santa Clara was a city.

  16. So, what the fuck does the gang who’s colors are blue police union want here? A call to 911 about an armed negro, a call about a negro with drugs? Come on, help us out with the script here.

    I’m sure the locals will do anything they can do to help. But they have to give us a clue. What do they want/ a lifetime in Supermax, a stay in Gitmo. How do with deal with this uppity behavior from the lesser races?

    1. If Obama had a son, he’d look like Kaepernick.

      (Well, they are both mulattoes.)

      1. Only if Obama was cheating on Michelle.

      2. Obama is a good looking guy. Kaepernick is flat out ugly. So if Michelle had a son….

        1. Some people have nose fetishes, you know.

          (I don’t.)

          1. Michelle and Kaeperneck doing the Humpty Dance: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y38Ec57yMG8

    2. If you went to McDonalds and the cashier said the things about you that Kaepernick said about the police, and the manager refused to discipline the cashier because “First Amendment”, you would be totally within your rights to boycott the restaurant until they disciplined the cashier.

      1. Did Kaepernick say them to the police while they were there at practice or during a game on the sideline? Half the potsmoking Mickey D’s employees have probably trolled police in comments sections or on their FB page yet the cops still go there.

  17. Let’s say it had been the beer or hotdog vendors union (if there are such things) that wrote the letter:

    Our officers vendors voluntarily agree to work these assignments. If the 49ers organization fails to take action to stop this type of inappropriate workplace behavior, it could result in police officers vendors choosing not to work at your facilities.

    Conceivably, they could just as well write this:

    Our vendors voluntarily agree to work these assignments. If the 49ers organization continues the practice of employing police officers for security, then be warned that due to many of our members being in agreement with Mr. Kaepernick’s views and stand, it could result in vendors choosing not to work at your facilities.

    Either way, it seems to me that it basically comes down to their saying “we’re a union, and our members don’t want to work your facility, as long as you maintain policies with which they disagree.”

      1. How does that come into the question? I understand the perversity of pubsec unions when it comes to bargaining for pay & pensions, but when it comes to refusal to work, I don’t see much of a distinction. Freedom of association should mean both that you have the right to attempt to apply pressure collectively, and to be fired for attempting to do so. So, I don’t see your point.

        1. Firstly, the refusal to work is a completely different animal when its a state-mandated monopoly doing it. What scabs can a city turn to when its P.D. goes on strike? As such, the power differential between employer and employee is completely different between privsec and pubsec. Secondly, as pubsec employees, their services have to do with the functioning of the government. As it is the executive’s job to enforce the laws passed by the legislature, the obstruction of the enforcement of those laws until the demands of the pubsec union are met is an extra-legal abuse of power. That is, it is a heckler’s veto over the will of the people. There is no such dynamic between labor disputes between private entities. This is probably why pubsec unions weren’t even legal until the 1960s.

          1. I see that as a chain of cascading self-inflicted problems that originates with granting unions special protections. Like anything, there’s a market-clearing price for policing, if you don’t legislate away your right to find out what it is.

  18. Whatever the heck happened to ‘cops don’t strike’? That used to be one of the major prices paid to have a public sector union.

    So let’s see – now you have pay significantly greater than the private sector, job security (government employees are basically undisciplinable), can collect your *first* pension at 20, have guaranteed ‘moonlighting’ opporunities because of local ordinances requiring venues to hire law enforcement for security, plenty of overtime opportunities sitting around road construction sites . . .

    Now they threaten to walk off the job if their feelz are hurt?

    1. Got any spare woodchippers?

    2. While I think Playa disagrees, i don’t think refusing OT-duty necessarily counts as a ‘strike’

      I’m not sure anyone actually ‘knows’; if you’re not cop, you’re little people.

      1. I think Playa would argue that the SOP has cops signing up for this stuff months in advance, so they’re not refusing OT duty; they’re backing out of stuff they’d already agreed to do.

        I don’t know that counts as a strike, but it seems pretty shitty. And of course the cops who do this want everybody to think of them as cops while they’re doing these events, not Paul Blarts.

      2. I would say that when the state mandates a police presence – as it does at these venues – then the police had a duty to accept that overtime or else they’re effectively striking, even if they don’t call it that.

        Especially when they’re *openly* calling for cops to refuse to accept the shifts *to have a demand of theirs met*.

        1. I would say that when the state mandates a police presence – as it does at these venues

          Link please.

          They have phones available at Levi’s stadium to call 911 and wait for the police to travel from the nearest station, same as I have when I’m hosting a party at my house.

          1. What does having phones at the stadium to call 911 have to do with a mandated police presence? .

    3. Who is going to make them work if they choose to strike? They are a standing army of sociopaths who face no consequences for their actions. They can do whatever they want. No one can stop them.

      1. I reckon the National Guard would round them up like lost puppies….if necessary. But maybe that is just in IL, where I am familiar with both agencies.

  19. As long as we’re talking about wasting taxpayer dollars….

    I’m watching the UCLA-Texas A&M game, and there was just a flyover. A Finger-Four of F-22 Raptors just buzzed the stadium.

    What do you think that cost? 100 grand or so?

      1. Because I have an Egyptian marxist girlfriend with big knockers and I do what she says.

    1. I hate the flyovers, but I think that it technically doesn’t cost much. The thing is, the pilots already do the training anyway; they’re just scheduling the training so that the event holder can have the flyover be in the right place at the right time. So those costs were going to be incurred anyway.

      1. Assuming that there is an F-22 fighter squadron near College Station, Texas. But there probably isn’t.

        1. There aren’t fighter squadrons in every Congressional district? 😉

          1. We have Cessnas from the Civil Air Patrol. Does that count?

        2. Assuming that there is an F-22 fighter squadron near College Station, Texas. But there probably isn’t.

          The Air Force trains pilots on them in San Antonio. That’s like 10 minutes away at part throttle.

          1. LOL, no. Pilot training in SA is done in T-38s/T-1s/T-6s. Panama City is the closest base w/ Raptors.

            1. And it looks like the lead pilot is the Ops Group commander (and Aggie) from Tyndall along w/ 3 other pilots from there.

              1. So it’s an hour flight

                1. Plus fueling

                  Plus ground crew

                  Plus standby aircraft and crews

      2. What I mean in case I didn’t make myself clear is that it’s not as if any money would be saved if sports events stopped doing these flyovers. The training flights would still happen; just in a different place and time.

        1. THIS. Flying hours were bought a long time ago and are a sunk cost. These could have even been a flight of raptors coming back from or going to an exercise. It happens. What you don’t hear about are the countless times bases say ‘no’ to these requests. There’s a lot fewer of them these days than before sequestration.

      3. the pilots already do the training anyway

        Yeah, i was going to say that. They have to put up hours no matter what. Where they choose to spend those flight hours is arbitrary

        For your pleasure = Flight-hour costs of military aircraft

        only $44,000 per hour! A bargain. x4, + assuming they use most of a full tank of gas while in the air? i’m guessing its over a million at least.

        They had F22s doing donuts over NYC for about a week after 9/11.

        1. They had F22s doing donuts over NYC for about a week after 9/11.

          Yeah, not exactly. The first production jet didn’t deliver to Nellis (Las Vegas) until ’03. IOC wasn’t until 2 yrs later. There were legacy aircraft doing CAPs though and have been on alert ever since.

          1. well then, i guess they were something else.

            1. UFOs, obviously. And by that I mean F16s.

              1. I’m going to go with “X-Wing Fighters”

      4. There are still significant added costs. Since this stuff is done on someone else’s schedule you’re going to have aircraft, pilots, and groundcrew standing around waiting for longer than otherwise.

        There’s often a transit cost to get the aircraft to the show area.

        The cost per hour for a flyover is not the same as the cost per hour for training. Plus the ‘training’ during these ops is shit. In the time it takes to prep, take off, flyover, land you could have had a pilot do a dozen touch-and-goes. Instead they’re spending time practicing close formation flying – which might come in handy the *second time* this is necessary.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardo‘s_Push

        The *only* advantage to the military/taxpayer for these stunts is that pilots get to count the hours for their certifications. And the military gets some low ROI advertising out of it.

        1. The *only* advantage to the military/taxpayer for these stunts is that pilots get to count the hours for their certifications. And the military gets some low ROI advertising out of it.

          I think the military would argue that the flyovers get some young folk to be inspired by the military and it’s good for recruiting. Even at $50K per plane it’s probably much better airtime for them, both at the game and on TV, than they would get for a $500K TV commercial during that same football game.

          1. And I mention that – but its got to be pretty low ROI for advertising compared to targeted ads and the crap they put on TV.

        2. I believe this is the link you were looking for.

          1. It is, and if Reason had included all that I copy-pasted then it would have worked.

    2. What do you think that cost? 100 grand or so?

      Survey Says = too low.

    3. Better than a ‘Finger-Middle’ formation.

      1. It was. To net positive tax payers.

    4. Unless it already happened and I didn’t get the memo, at some point in time a flyover will crash into the stands. Given the Malaysian Air & Lufthansa incidents it might even be on purpose.

  20. So stadium will be safest place in Santa Clara.

  21. Fuck the cops and Kaepernipunk too. It’s fucking Labor day weekend, baby. That’s for cooking, and eating, and drankin. Wife brought me back a pretty large selection of German mico-brews from a couple beerhauses in Berlin, yesterday. I’ve had 3 so far, a pilsner and 2 weisbeirs and all 3 were kickass excellent. Octoberfest came early this year.

    1. That’s one heck of a beer run…

      1. Yeah. The next one is going to include me and some ventures to the South to hit some beerhauses and do some serious beer drinking German style. I wish I could post pics here, I would post some of the pics the wife took of the giant mugs of beer people were drinking. They really take beer seriously there.

        1. You have to ask for the small size in some places in Germany.

          I’ll be making a run to Germany and The Netherlands soon. We’ll see what I bring back. I know my limits, no drinking contests with the locals.

          1. I’m pretty sure I can keep with them.

    2. just 3 watermelon Dorado so far. Now it’s time to toss the kids around the pool.

      1. Beer makes you shit? ..or was that literal?

    3. I wish dunkelweiss beer was more commonly available this side of the pond. You can find dunkels and plenty of weiss’s, but dunkelweiss w/ jaegerschnitzel is hard to beat.

      1. I’ve seen a few, but I agree, we need more.

  22. “That’s a marshmallow. That’s a child. That’s a dog.”

    “Do I want to fuck it?”

    1. what’s even odder about that sort of girl-talk is that they’re suggesting that the black-entertainer/athlete or whomever they’re talking about is “Probably sexist” FOR NOT WANTING TO BANG HER

      IOW, its a remarkable conceptual flexibility between “hating on dudes for treating them as sex-objects” and then “hating on dudes for refusing to even consider them as sex-objects”

      OH YOU MEN

      1. “That’s how men think!”

        The entire controversy (more like a nontroversy, am I right?), is incredibly uninteresting and pointless, but that quote is without peer.

        1. I can’t even manage to be offended at the misandry of thinking your average man wants to screw children, dogs and marshmallows.

    2. The field on which I grow my fucks is not only barren, it’s been plowed with salt and then paved over to make a parking lot.

      1. And do you call it Car-thage?

        1. Did I just set that joke up? Wow.

          1. I’m just roman around, looking for spqritunities.

  23. G.I. Joe, the Transformers, Jem and the Holograms, and Inhumanoids are all part of a shared fictional universe.

    1. What gender was Snake Eyes?

        1. That is the best possible answer

    2. A universe in which a meteorite strike turned Pinocchio into a real boy, setting the precedent for dolls everywhere?

  24. I suppose this is as good as place as any to list our fantasy football league. It’s an H&R league, so you’ll be surrounded by like-minded people. The draft is coming up — I think it’s the sixth. Anybody interested write rockaction8@gmail.com, and we’ll hook you up. It’s all about the prestige!

  25. California bans painting of Civil War battle from County Fair art show, because Abraham Lincoln was a dictator and a statist

    OK, I was kidding about that last part.

    “…In 2015, Plaintiff [Timothy Desmond] created a painting called The Attack, which depicts a scene from the 1864 Siege of Atlanta. The painting included several individuals carrying flags, one of which was the Second National Confederate States flag used at times by the Confederacy….

    “…Plaintiff submitted The Attack to the 2015 [Big Fresno] Fair [which is government sponsored] for display, and was later told that he should pick up The Attack because it could not be displayed with other artwork at the Fair. Theodore Scribner, the director of the fine arts program for the Fair, told Plaintiff that the painting could not be displayed under a California law that prohibited the state from displaying the Confederate flag….”

    Just to be clear, the Battle of Atlanta ended in a Confederate defeat, and the capture and burning of Atlanta by Union General William T. Sherman was a serious blow from which the Confederacy never recovered. I don’t know if the artist is trying to glorify the Confederacy or not, but if that was his objective he picked a really funny battle to do it with.

    1. I just finished Sherman’s autobiography. I highly recommend it.

        1. “Well, Farmer Bob, first the bad news…all your prize pigs were burned in the fire.

          “Now the good news…”

        2. You’ll have to make do with his feud with SoW Stanton.

      1. OK, I downloaded two public-domain editions (1891 for vol. 2, 1913 for vol. 1).

        Which edition did you use – does it have any extra stuff?

        1. Right now, I’m in the middle of reading this biography of North Carolina’s Civil War governor.

          I’m almost at the point where Sherman shows up.

          1. Near the end of the war, he (Governor Vance) kind of figured the Confederates had lost but he wanted his state to fight on to preserve its honor. So he opposed all the peacemongers who wanted a negotiated peace, and suppressed the Unionists (or tried to).

        2. From the Kindle Store, the free Amazon version of his second edition. No extra stuff, no maps.

          1. It seems that among his other accomplishments, Sherman has a claim to being one of the founders of what is now Louisiana State University, where he was Superintendent before the war, when it had a more military vibe.

            I was going to link to one of LSU’s sorority Web sites, and make an inappropriate remark, but those are people’s daughters, so I think I’ll refrain.

            1. “Many important American campuses have buildings named for their founders and pioneers (the benefactors come next, of course), but there is “no building here on this campus named for Sherman

              “[citing his memoirs]…[At] a dinner in Baton Rouge before the war…he was asked directly by Gov. Thomas O. Moore to set out his view of slavery. His answer was stark: “(W)ere I a citizen of Louisiana, and a member of the legislature, I would deem it wise to bring the legal condition of the slaves more near the status of human beings under all Christian and civilized governments.” Lincoln’s position on slavery at the time was not as advanced as this.”

              1. (PS – this may not be true about Lincoln – a common refrain at the time was “*If* I were in a Southern legislature I’d vote against slavery but as [President/member of Congress/etc] I won’t interfere with slavery where it exists.”)

  26. Obama Goes To China

    Once he got his “Green Bullshit Non-Treaty-Paper-Promise Thing” signed, he hoped the press would go away and spread the good news, and only the good news.

    not so much

    The problems began as soon as President Obama landed in China.

    There were no stairs waiting for him to disembark from his usual door at the top of Air Force One.

    On the tarmac, as Obama’s staff scrambled to get lower-level stairs in place for him to disembark, White House press photographers traveling with him tried to get in their usual position to mark his arrival in a foreign country, only to find a member of the Chinese welcoming delegation screaming at them.

    He told the White House press corps they needed to leave.

    A White House official tried to intervene, saying this is our president…The man yelled in response, “This is our country!”

    …several White House protocol officers and other staff arriving at a diplomatic compound ahead of Obama’s meetings were stopped from entering and had heated arguments with Chinese officials in order to get in. A fistfight nearly broke out between a Chinese official trying to help the U.S. diplomats and a Chinese security official trying to keep them out. .

    Seriously tho, he signed a … a thing! About Climate! LIGHTBRINGER

    1. The main problem with the Asia pivot was one of perception and substance.

      European and Middle East leaders expressed concern with the idea of U.S. attention and priorities suddenly shifting from their regions to another. Chinese leaders saw the pivot as a U.S. conspiracy to interfere with China’s goals and to slow its rise.

      Meanwhile, the very Asian allies the pivot was meant to reassure had their doubts, as well. Many wondered how much of the U.S. pivot was empty rhetoric and how much of it would be backed by economic and military substance.

      In recent months, those doubts have resurfaced because the Trans-Pacific Partnership- — a trade deal Obama cobbled together as a way to reach out to Asian allies — may die for lack of support among Congress and presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

      Meanwhile, in the years since the pivot strategy began, the U.S.-China relationship has soured to its current acrimonious state.

      Both countries today are trying to avoid open hostility but are increasingly wary, hedging and frustrated with each other. Other countries in the region continue to fear China’s rise but at the same time are not fully convinced that the United States will be a sufficient counterweight.

      1. So, the main problem was *everything*?

        1. (responding to the quote “The main problem with the Asia pivot was one of perception and substance.”)

        2. the main problem was *everything*?

          In so many words, yes

          Its pretty easily understood in the context of the Obama admin’s approach to ‘everything else’ in the world = create the appearances of engagement, while passing/ignoring the substance –

          the idea is that by “never stating what your goals are” you can never fail in the eyes of the domestic public.

          the problem is that other countries see this and they exploit it. China would not be asserting itself all over the place if they weren’t damn sure the US was never going to say boo about it, or dare to openly support China’s regional competitors.

          Its the same bluff-calling Russia did in Crimea and Syria.

          I’m not saying Obama should have been far more confrontational in opposing these measures. I’m saying that neither Russia or China would be asserting themselves if they didn’t already know exactly how he would (not) react.

          1. Also =

            ask yourself (or maybe Jackand, the only person here who seemed to think the “Climate Agreement” meant anything – should ask himself)….

            ….how seriously should anyone take China’s promises to the US – bilateral, you understand, and entirely backed by the so-called goodwill of each party – about something as easily-cheated-on like “carbon emissions”….?

            …when they don’t wont give so much as an inch on anything that is tangible in the here and now?

            If anything, the “green nonsense” is being used by both the US and china as something for the press to talk about to keep them from focusing entirely on the utter lack of agreement about anything else.

  27. OT: I just watched Don’t Breathe. Not bad, but aside from a twist in the middle of the film the plot was standard fare. Even down to who buys the farm and in what order. Overall, 3 out of 5 stars.

    1. To put it another way, if you’ve ever seen The People Under the Stairs you kind of know what you’re getting into.

  28. Horrible angst in the s-f publishing world over the lack of black writers having short fiction published.

    There are comments and some accompanying editorials by black writers declaring that the low numbers are proof of the insidious racism which is still part of publishing. Anyone who points out that without knowing the submission rate of black authors the numbers are meaningless is clearly a racist. There are even binomial statistics which prove the racism. And, of course, if the answer is because black writers aren’t submitting, then that’s proof of even greater racism.

    At least one on-line publisher has acknowledged their guilt.

      1. Ouch. Well done.

        1. He’s like a scalpel attached to a mace.

        2. Agree. Brilliant

    1. Clearly the solution is to put a gun to the head of the black community and force them to engage in an activity they apparently don’t give two shits about. For diversity.

      1. The gun is going to someone’s head, that’s for sure.

    2. Wonder how many black cowboy poets there are. Harry Reid’s pork needs more dark meat.

    3. They wouldn’t run my Shaft in Space stories – they were threatened by a strong black male protagonist, but they made up some BS about copyright. Also they didn’t seem to believe I was black even though I said I identified as black and listened to rap.

    4. This seems like a good time to mention the “marginalized-community”-Sci-Fi Classic =

      Gayniggers From Outer Space

      1. That used to be the inflight movie on Delta Airlines.

        (Oh, hi there, Delta Airlines attorneys, did I mention that was a joke?)

  29. Now THIS is a football game.

  30. Dunkel Weizenbock whut? Buzzened wurt me wuz beenz.

    1. Sounds like a good night.

      1. I think I was in some sort of beer coma there for a bit, but I snapped out of it and got a 2nd wind.

        1. NOT ME! SHIRAZ AND GOOSE ISLAND OKTOBERFEST-COMA, HERE I COME!

  31. Zzzzzzzzzz. Dude has pretty awesome hair though. Jellies.

  32. The cops are merely refusing to work off-duty as security personnel at the stadium. Freedom of association, cut and dry. (not that Reason gets hung up on freedom of association much these days)

    The Santa Clara Police Department is the lead police agency at Levi’s Stadium. During 49er games, around 70 officers volunteer to work and are paid as security personnel. Now it is unknown whether more than half of those officers will show up at the team’s next game on Sept. 12.

    The First Amendment only guarantees Kaepernick that he won’t be forced to stand with a cattle prod or such, and that he won’t be dragged off to a jail cell for refusing to stand. It does not protect him from noncoercive negative consequences of his actions and words.

    1. No, Tulpa. The police are ON DUTY. And they don’t work as security. They work as law enforcement.

      1. You are saying that the article is wrong? Do you have independent knowledge of the arrangement?

        1. Yes. Yes I do. And extensive knowledge of California law.

          1. Good, it’s nice to have an expert on the issue here to get more information from.

            Who directly pays the officers for the hours of work at the stadium? By “directly” I mean where does the check come from — if they are on duty, the paycheck will come from their department, even if the 49ers ultimately pay for the service. If they are off duty, the paycheck will come from the 49ers with no intermediary.

            Are they paid at the same rate as for their on duty police work, or at a different rate as private security personnel would be paid?

            1. where does the check come from — if they are on duty, the paycheck will come from their department, even if the 49ers ultimately pay for the service.

              He pointed out above (search yourself) that the franchise pays the city. the city pays the police. the police pay their employees their OT. OT pay is set by negotiation w/ the department AFAIK.

              most of this was gone over already in the thread above

            2. The paycheck comes from their employer. They’re paid at the same rate as regular shift, plus 50%.

              The city charges the NFL a lot more. If the cops are being paid $70 an hour including bennies and retirement contributions, the city is charging $120 an hour. It’s a “management fee”.

              1. It’s just odd that none of the news articles address the angle of whether the cops can legally back out of this work, and indeed the NBC article explicitly says they are paid by the 49ers as security personnel.

                Given how much the media (and Reason even moreso) supports Kaep’s position, it’s odd that they don’t go there.

                1. none of the news articles address the angle of whether the cops can legally back out of this work,

                  And god knows journalists never gloss over details, or fail to grasp intricacies of law.

                  The nbc affiliate did say this =

                  If Santa Clara’s police officers refuse to work, others officers might be hired. But, Saunders said, that may create a conflict with the city’s contract with the police union.

                  it may also present a conflict with agreements the NFL/49rs-franch has with the city, and more. as (reminding you again) has already been discussed above.

                  1. it may also present a conflict with agreements the NFL/49rs-franch has with the city,

                    According to Mr. Manhattan. None of the articles mention this.

                    1. well i’m sure given your penchant for careful reading you’ll suss that out in no time.

  33. How Retarded is the EU? This Retarded =

    senior EU officials involved [admit] the [Apple tax-clawback] decision certainly has a strong political element, even if Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager says she is confident her case will stand up to Cook’s appeal on its legal merits alone.

    Brussels’ political target is less corporate America than Eurosceptics at home who threaten to pull the EU apart if it fails to show alienated voters it can act in their interests.

    e.g. They think EU voters will read “kicking apple in the balls” as “acting in their interests”

    there isn’t even the hint of a suggestion by anyone that *maybe* it wont necessarily be perceived that way.

    As anyone in business can tell you, when govt starts randomly handing out random, huge, punitive tax-penalties? The response by business is generally to reduce risk-exposure and raise cash reserves it keeps on-hand to ensure they won’t be hurt by any subsequent unpredictable govt actions.

    And that sort of heightened conservatism tends to hurt employees, consumers, etc.

    i think there’s every reason to assume it has the opposite effect, and makes the EU “less attractive”. How could anyone see Ireland being “over-ruled” by foreign bureaucrats as somehow acting ‘in their interests’? I bet Apple’s employees in Ireland don’t see it that way.

    1. Too bad Nigel Farage went back to his real job, I bet he’d have some good speeches for the retards in the Euro-Parliament.

      1. Isn’t Daniel Hannan still a MEP?

    2. Competition Commissioner

      Heh.

      1. Without one, how would anyone know what to do?

      2. Her job is to make sure Apple is peeled, not cored. Modern day Tiberius.

  34. OT: Favorite Hitchcock films? I just finished North by Northwest, Notorious, The Lady Vanishes and Vertigo. Loved all of them. (The latter’s pacing was a bit weird, but I loved the overall thematic content and plot. A lot to chew on.) I’ve seen Psycho in the past but need to see it again.

    Rebecca is queued up next.

    Lotta fun, much better than real-life politics and ‘hot [rapidly cooling] topics.’

    1. Strangers on a Train
      Rope.

      When i was taking film classes, the consensus from 2 profs seemed to be that “Vertigo” is his best film. Cant remember why. lots of clever camera stuff maybe.

      I was always partial toward Rear Window, but probably because it was taught as being all about a ‘psychological reversal of voyeurism’… ‘”audience watching a watcher watch”, etc…. and the capper being the moments when the actor actually “looks in the camera”.

      1. Also, i first saw it when i was a teen and i really wanted to bone grace kelly.

        1. Grace Kelly in Rear Window is about as beautiful and perfect a character as any woman in any movie, I can see why you’d feel that way.

          Though slightly less-great than Rear Window, It Takes a Thief is also an awesome Grace Kelly Hitchcock movie. Here she’s paired with Cary Grant (my favorite Hitchcock leading man), and it’s much more light and humorous than most Hitchcock films. Knowing what happened afterwards in real life makes the movie that much more interesting — she met Prince Rainier while filming it, and of course later married him and became Princess Grace. The scene where she’s driving wildly on the precipitous Monaco roads, almost plummeting off several times, is all the much more striking, as she later died in real life driving off one of those very roads.

          1. She still ranks a close #2 to Audrey Hepburn in Roman Holiday

            1. I also would have been happy to be with Audrey Hepburn as Holly Golightly in Breakfast at Tiffany’s or her character in How to Steal a Million.

          2. You mean To Catch a Thief. It Takes a Thief was a late 1960s TV show.

          3. I’ve always found Grace Kelly too icy. Katy Jurado in High Noon is not at all what you would try to pass off as conventional beauty, but her scenes have something smoldering in them that Grace’s don’t.

            1. You’re right on the title, sorry about that, I was just going off the top of my head and my aging brain missed the exact name.

              I agree how Grace could be too icy in most films, but that’s what made her character in Rear Window so amazing, she seemed so approachable and girl-next-door, you could just see hanging out with her as your 1950s girlfriend (as if!)

            2. I’ve always found Grace Kelly too icy.

              “i can fix that”

              1. “I’ve always found Grace Kelly too icy.”

                Should have boned her when she was still breathing if you don’t like em cold.

          4. Oh I thought she got boned…T-boned.

      2. Oh, I forgot about Rear Window! I saw that years ago and loved it. I just thought it was totally unique, and the set design completely amazing. Need too rewatch that too.

        cheers

        1. And it’s got Thelma Ritter as the nurse.

      3. Vertigo is almost always second to Citizen Kane (and sometimes even bests it) in those critics’ lists of ‘greatest films of all-time.’ I think it does have to do with the meta-filmmaking qualities like subtle visual storytelling and techniques. It reminds me of Bergman’s Persona (and lots of other critically acclaimed movies) in that it’s sort of a commentary on film itself (or on identity and memory and how film / visual art processes/relates those things)?and film critics love that kind of thing.

        But Notorious is much tauter for me, and NBNW a lot more fun. And Cary Grant is just so damn good as a leading man.

        1. But Notorious is much tauter for me,

          We are protected by the enormity of your stupidity, for a time.

          1. I think that after I watched it I immediately checked to see what else that woman was in. Think she was mostly a theater actor, though, and in few films. Shame.

            1. She was credited as “Madame Konstantin”, which sounds intimidating, but her real name was Leopoldine Konstantin, which might be even more intimidating.

              And Claude Rains never gets the credit he deserves for how good an actor he was.

              1. He starred in the greatest motion picture of all time.

    2. Try Dial M for Murder, To Catch a Thief, Rope, Rear Window, and The Trouble with Harry.

      1. thanks!

      2. I love To Catch A Thief

      3. Extra bonuses on The Trouble with Harry — it’s the very first movie for a very young Shirley MacLaine, and the Beaver himself, Jerry Mathers, plays her little son who finds a dead body.

        A couple of years ago our town’s local theater screened the film with Jerry Mathers interviewed live before the film started. I got to ask him a question — he answered everyone with glassy eyes, seeming to robotically answer questions (which I’m sure all of which he’d been asked too many times before.)

        1. Love the part where he shows up at lunch with his dead rabbit, and when asked where he found it, replies “in the blueberry muffins.”

    3. I love so many of the Hitchcock films, but I have a special place for North by Northwest. I’ve literally watched it at least fifty times (probably much more) and I never get tired of it. I could probably do most of the dialogue by heart.

      It’s exciting, tense, romantic and really fun, and never takes itself too seriously; you can tell that Hitch probably had a ball filming it. The cornfield scene where the crop duster tries to take out Cary Grant is legendary, as is the final chase scene on the faces of Mount Rushmore, but I might like the art auction scene the best. Eva Marie Saint is gorgeous, elegant and troubled, like so many Hitchcock blond heroines, and James Mason and Martin Landau are terrific villains — especially Mason, who is debonair and evil at the same time.

      My favorite Hitchcock films are the ones like North by Northwest — an average guy gets caught up in a sinister situation, has to go on the lam and gets involved with a beautiful woman, getting in and out of scrapes while wisecracking through everything. The earlier black-and-whites like this while Hitchcock was still in England are really fun, check those out — especially The Lady Vanishes and The 39 Steps.

      1. Eva Marie Saint was sooo compelling, and I’d never heard of her before I saw it. I was totally fascinated by every development of her character (or how the audience understands her character).

        I’d always identified NBNW with that image of Grant running from the crop duster and took it as a dull chase scene (and maybe the movie itself as a chase movie?which it is, but not in a linear, dull one-place-to-the-next cartoonish kind of way); so when I saw that scene, I was pretty wowed. Even knowing the plane would eventually be the thing to menace him. Genius.

        The Mount Rushmore scene was a little more straightforward and maybe doesn’t hold up as well (I say as a younger viewer who’s been spoiled by so many imitations), but still enjoyable.

        I too love the sorts of scenes where the protagonists and antagonists are suspended by third party restrictions (like maneuvering in polite society that doesn’t and can’t know the relationship between/ truths about the parties that are relevant to the viewer).

        1. Hitchcock had already used a national monument: the climax of Saboteur is set atop the Statue of Liberty.

          And Norman Lloyd, who played the bad guy, is still alive at 101.

    4. Saboteur. It’s in many ways the same story as North By Northwest, as well as the earlier The 39 Steps. But it’s got better production values than The 39 Steps, and has a good everyman (Bob Cummings) in the lead role, something that’s a problem for North By Northwest with Cary Grant and the baggage he brings.

      Sabotage. A completely different movie, made in Britain before Hitchcock came to America. Sylvia Sidney finds that her husband (Oskar Homolka) is a member of a sabotage organization. Hitchcock did something in the movie that he later said he regretted, but I think it works in favor of the movie. The movie also has a wonderfully ambiguous ending.

      Shadow of a Doubt. Teresa Wright learns that her beloved uncle Joseph Cotten may be a serial killer. Hume Cronyn and Clarence the angle from It’s a Wonderful Life provide dark comedy by trying to come up with the perfect murder.

      Vertigo is one of my least favorite Hitchocock films.

      1. Definitely agree on Shadow of a Doubt. Teresa Wright’s wide-eyed devoted niece who slowly but surely loses her affection for Joseph Cotten as you see his evil become more and more obvious is great film-making. Also, I like seeing the then little Bay Area town of Santa Rosa as it looked 70 years ago.

        I’m glad to see everyone endorsing what I think of as the truly great Hitchcock films, where suspense was the core and there was never any need for gore. Too many casual film fans think of him as a horror film director because of Psycho and The Birds — both are excellent movies, but really a departure from his main body of work.

        One other Technicolor Hitchcock that you might like is the 1956 version of The Man who Knew Too Much. It’s flawed and even annoying at times, and I didn’t care for Doris Day in the movie, but James Stewart is always great in Hitchcock movies (or just about any movie).

    5. Rebecca is queued up next.

      bet you didn’t know about the prequel

      My personal favorite Hitchcock movie is Rear Window

      1. Would that I could follow every movie with a M&W parody. Thanks

    6. Rebecca is queued up next.

      Daphne du Maurier provided the source material for two other Hitchcock movies: The Birds, and the relatively little-known Jamaica Inn. Hitchcock made Jamaica Inn as a favor to his friend Charles Laughton while the negotiations to come to America to do Rebecca hit a snag. It’s not quite what you expect from Hitchcock, but there are a lot of the recognizable signs, and Laughton and a 19-year-old Maureen O’Hara are both quite enjoyable.

    7. How could I forget Foreign Correspondent? Made immediately after Rebecca, Joel McCrea plays a newspaperman who goes to Europe in August 1939 to get the straight dope on the situation there, and gets more than he bargained for when he witnesses a murder that wasn’t.

      1. Geez, Ted. I didn’t expect to get such extensive recommendations. I’m excited to attack this queue. Thanks so much

        1. I’m a big Hitchcock fan, and I blog about classic movies.

          1. Hitchcock or Kubrick?

            Discuss.

  35. Meet Lowebot.

    Though that pronunciation calls up a different image for me….

  36. Jesus Christ, Reason. This is not a DUTY assignment. We (cops) work these “off duties” aka “details” aka “special duties” VOLUNTARILY and via a CONTRACT between our police unions and a PRIVATE business. When SPD works Mariners games, they VOLUNTEER, it is through a contract between SPD and the Mariners and I though Reason recognized the right for PRIVATE contracts. That’s what these are with the 49ers too and with my agency, like when a company hires us to do security at a wedding or whatever. This is NOT on duty assignment. These are (in my agency and many others) referred to as OFF DUTIES because despite the fact (some) require uniform wear, we are not working FOR THE PUBLIC but for the private business. Many agencies, for example set all kinds of restrictions (conflict of interest) as to what kinds of businesses we can work private OFF DUTIES for. Usually, when you see a cop directing traffic at a construction site, he’s working for the CONTRACTOR -NOT the PD. It’s not overtime or normal duty. So, if you are actually libertarian, you would support the right of cops to REJECT these VOLUNTARY details for ANY damn reason they please. When we take an oath we don’t take an oath to work for PRIVATE businesses … these are in no way an obligation. many officers, myself included, haven’t worked an off duty in years .

  37. i know SPD and KCSO guys who work every single mariners game. I know LAPD guys who do the same over two sports seasons. THEIR call. Dallas Cowboys prohibited the Cowboys from wearing stickers promoting DPD after the 5 cops were murdered by as long as the 49ers allow Kaepernick to do this stuff IN UNIFORM in the venue, it can be read as an implicit endorsement of his bigoted speech. Cops are free to say to the 49ers to either reign his bullshit in, or they won’t work the games. We retain the right to decide which off duties we work and don’t work.

    1. This was my original take, but it turns out that the incident with the porcine hosiery occurred during practice, where the NFL uniform rules are lighter or nonexistent. The Cowboys wanted to wear the patch during games.

  38. i also like the way you put “boycott” in scare quotes. it’s not a “boycott”. It’s a BOYCOTT. the police union absolutely has the right to decide to reject contracting with the PRIVATE business that desires officers for security at 49ers games. If you look at this through a libertarian lens, and recognize it’s a CONTRACT, not an official police duty, you will have to grudgingly admit – this is the market and this is free speech. If the 49ers are going to implicitly endorse Kaepernick’s bigoted speech (imagine if he said anti-semitic shit… or racist shit), then the police union will react to that by saying we don’t want to be associated and working with you. Clean up your act, 49ers. If Kaepernick was doing this ON HIS OWN TIME, this would not be an issue the union would float a boycott on. No different than the beyonce boycott by the cops for her bigoted bullshit. Kaepernick was hired to play football and if he wants to use his bully pulpit in uniform working in the 49ers stadium to spout his bigoted nonsense/socks… fuck him. I stand with the POA!

    1. So speaketh the fat fuck from Bainbridge Island Parking Enforcement.

      Dude, you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

      1. translation: everything I said is correct and you can’t refute a single fact.

        Because it’s entirely factual

        so you resort to ad homs.

        hth

        1. Dude, all I’ve confirmed is that you’re a liar. If you were actually a cop, you’d know contract shit before you were even out of the academy.

          If LAPD is contracted to provide X officers to a Dodger game, they provide that number. The union has fuck all to do with it. And they’re ON DUTY. They have a paddy wagon, they arrest people for fighting and drunk in public, and they do it IN UNIFORM and ON DUTY.

          You have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about, Tulpa. Try again.

          1. Please cite where the contract says they are contracted to provide X officers.

            hth

            1. You are ASSUMING the contract says they will do so. Most of our contracts make no such #’s guarantees, because the union KNOWS how many officers they can get to work events VARIES.

              do you have specific knowledge the contract GUARANTEES X officers per game?

              If so, I’ll happily admit I was wrong on that point

              unlike the bigorati, when I am wrong I admit it

              1. You think the NFL cruised into a town of 115,000 people and didn’t think of this?
                Riiiiight.

                You said you were a cop? What’s your ORIN? I don’t need the whole number, just the part that proves you’re in Washington State. It’s not on google, so either you know, or you don’t know. I’m guessing you’re gonna bullshit.

                1. How do we know that you know what the correct number?

                  1. Oh… Tulpa. This isn’t going well for you.

                    1. You’re not answering the question, Mr. Manhattan.

                    2. “Dunphy” provides the state and county codes. Simple as that, Tulpa. “Dunphy” would use those dozens of times a day, as well as the agency code.

                      Not that difficult, is it? Unless he/you is a liar.

                  2. Did Tulpa just forget to change his sock handle again?

                    1. Did Tulpa just forget to change his sock handle again?

                      Wave function collapse. When you observe a tulpa, it reduces to a single eigentroll.

                  3. How do we know that you know what the correct number?

                    How do we know if does Bruno Mars is gay?

                    1. Where do you learn of these things? Surely there’s a main source? [preempting you linking to the hip-hop group] I would know of very few memes were it not for your, uh, heroism.

                    2. Where do you learn of these things?

                      From today’s youth, who Say NO to Crack and YES! to Roller Skating.

                    3. Thanks HM

                2. What is it? And why isn’t it on Google? Is it public information? If so it needs to be searchable.

                  1. Is this ORIN some kind of secret that mere commoners are not supposed to know?

                    1. No, it’s the NCIC/FBI reporting number. If you so much as write a parking ticket, you have an ORIN identifier.

                    2. There is not a single link on Google describing what that is or even mentioning it, for the queries “orin number” “orin police” “orin ncic” “orin fbi” or “orin identifier”. That’s pretty hard to believe if it’s legit.

                      Well, unless it’s some super-secret thing, in which case you’re in deep shit for posting it here.

                    3. Yes. Many Bothans died to bring us these Originating Agency Identifier Numbers.

                    4. Is this ORIN some kind of secret that mere commoners are not supposed to know?

                      Had Mr. Dunphy replied to Mr. Manhattan, the secret would have been out and it would have been available on a google search (i.e. this thread).

                      That’s over and above the irony of one anonymous Internet commenter setting himself up as an authority to verify the credentials of another anonymous Internet commenter.

                    5. You dumb fuck. I asked for the part where you prove that you’re a cop in Washington state. It’s not a fucking secret, it’s just not on google. If you’ve been in a traffic accident, the code is on the report.

                      So… Go ahead… Prove me wrong.

                      I mean, there’s no way you’re running multiple socks here, right? Surely, you’re a cop in Washington, right?

                    6. I never said I was a cop in Washington.

                      It’s impossible to prove you wrong. Regardless of what Mr. Dunphy says, you can claim it’s wrong and nobody here would know the difference.

                    7. It’s not even ORIN, it’s ORI. So much for you being the authority, you don’t even know the correct abbreviation.

                      According to this document, Washington ORIs begin with WA.

                      Oh wait, I bet that document about ORIs is wrong, just like every news article about the POA boycott is wrong. Only Mr. Manhattan knows the truth.

                    8. Oh, Tulpa….

                      So you did go to google. It says right on the top of the report. ORIN.

                      Which you would know if you’re not a fraud. Go ahead, save face. Good luck.

                    9. t says right on the top of the report. ORIN.

                      Which report? “ORIN” is not found in the document I linked to, at the top or anywhere else.

                      I’m not a cop at all, just showing that you actually did not know what you were talking about when setting yourself up as a judge of credentials.

                    10. I’m not a cop at all,

                      Not going to save you, bub.

                    11. So… Go ahead… Prove me wrong.

                      Not really proving you wrong, but here goes:

                      WADIF0100 US FISH & WILDLIFE DIV OF LAW ENF BELLEVUE
                      WADIF0200 SWINOMISH FISHERIES PATROL
                      WADI00100 MT RAINIER NAT PARK PK RANGER DIV LONGMIRE
                      WADI00200 OLYMPIC NAT PARK PK RANGER DIV PORT ANGELES
                      WADI00300 NORTH CASCADES PARK PK RANGER DIV SEDRO WOOLLEY
                      WADI00400 COULEE DAM NAT REC AREA PK RANGER DIV COULEE
                      WADI00500 FT VANCOUVER HIST SITE PK RANGER DIV
                      WADI00600 SAN JUAN ISL PK PK RANGER DIV FRIDAY HARBOR
                      WADI00700 WHITMAN MISSION SITE PK RANGER DIV WALLA WALLA
                      WADI00800 NISQUALLY TRIBAL POLICE DEPARTMENT OLYMPIA

                      …..and so on. (It helps if you know the acronym is ORI, not ORIN)

                3. Why does the police chief in the linked article urge his officers not to stop volunteering for the games? If he can “volun-tell” the junior officers for the games, can’t he just say that the police will provide the necessary personnel rather than looking fairly weak in this story?

                4. What’s your ORIN?

                  And, just like that, Dunphy disappears.

                  I, for one, am shocked.

                  1. I got a feeling Playa Manhattan is gonna disappear now.

                    1. Having been called out, Mr. Manhattan reappears.

                    2. You’re right, I have never been an LEO. I also never claimed to be one.

                      Since you’re such a legal expert, you know the legal consequences of filing a false police report. If you have the balls to drop that dime I’m not going to stop you.

                    3. You’re right, I have never been an LEO. I also never claimed to be one.

                      I’d save that for when you speak to your legal council.

                      you know the legal consequences of filing a false police report.

                      A LEO would know the difference between submitting a tip and filing a police report. But I’ll let the person who might have submitted the tip know you’re concerned for his or her well-being.

                    4. LOL, we’ve moved beyond the IgnorantClaimsOfKnowledge to the VagueLegalThreats. Yawn.

                    5. I don’t see any “threats,” vague, legal, or otherwise.

                      What I see are facts. And I see those facts disturb you, prompting you to affect a posture of bravado.

                      I’d log off now, if I were you.

                      That’s not a threat, just a suggestion.

                    6. Given how shoddy your ability to discern facts from opinions has been demonstrated to be in this thread, I ain’t worried.

                    7. Ah, a non-sequitur.

                      Do you really think you have time to fiddle here when your ‘Rome’ is burning?

                    8. Since you’re such a legal expert, you know the legal consequences of filing a false police report. If you have the balls to drop that dime I’m not going to stop you.

                      *facepalm*

                    9. Oh, and ORIN is not documented as an abbreviation for ORI Number anywhere I can find.

                      Unless you too are an independent expert about these matters. This thread is full of experts, I feel humbled.

                    10. ORIN is not documented as an abbreviation for ORI Number anywhere I can find.

                      I’m sure your literature review was substantive and exhaustive. While you’re out researching, I suggest you spend some time here. I have a feeling you might need that information soon.

                      hth

                    11. LOL, so you’re presenting information as fact when you actually have no clue as to whether it’s true or not. Par for the course around here.

                    12. so you’re presenting information as fact when you actually have no clue as to whether it’s true or not.

                      By ‘you’ you mean the person posting under the handle of “Seth Bullock,” of course.

                    13. “I know you are but what am I” got old in 5th grade, HM.

                    14. Then why did you do it, SB?

                    15. Snitches get smooches.

                    16. And just to underline how poor HM’s reading comprehension is, note that in the section of law he quotes only applies to “an act with intent to convey the impression that he or she is acting in an official capacity and a reasonable person would believe the person is a law enforcement officer” which Mr. Dunphy certainly never did.

                    17. “an act with intent to convey the impression that he or she is acting in an official capacity and a reasonable person would believe the person is a law enforcement officer” which Mr. Dunphy certainly never did.

                      That will be for the court to decide.

                      hth

          2. Off duty cops have arrest powers, so that doesn’t really prove anything.

            1. off duty cops have arrest powers whether or not they are working an “off duty” assignment so how is that relevant?

              we have the right to decline to work any contract we don’t want to work

              I almost never work off duties.

              1. We share common cause, Mr. Artist.

                I was responding to Mr. Manhattan’s assumption that the ability to arrest people means the cops are on duty.

                1. I apologize. my bad

    2. How’s your clean these days, big boy? Make it to 300 yet?

      1. See above: Can’t refute a single fact so you resort to ad homs…

        300? lol

        even in my 50’s, I clean and jerk well in excess of that.

        1. Sure you can.

          1. I sure can. now back to relevancies, like Reason’s distaste for contracts…

  39. Contracts? How do those work?

    yet again, Reason is anti-contract… when it’s cops

    1. Awww, isn’t that just so adorable.

      1. translation: can’t refute the facts so it’s just more circle jerking

        yawn

        hth

        1. I can’t find any facts to refute, Dumby, so until then…

          1. That’s the funny part about this fool. He seems to think his incoherent word salad posts contain nothing but meticulously researched facts.

            1. everything I said that is not opinion is fact.

              obviously opinions are opinions duh

              the factual points are that these are CONTRACT and we are under NO duty to work them

              1. Ah. Contacts. Are you contractually obligated to be a big snivelling pussy whenever some illiterate quadroon doesn’t like you pigs? Or are you just doing it for fun?

                1. not a pussy at all.demonstrating strength.

                  telling 49ers! Cowboy the fuck up (pun intended) or you can get your own fucking security for 49er games!

                  smooches!

                  Strength in Numbers (SIN!) how appropriate!

    2. So, dunpster, if the union pull out of this contract, how are they going to compensate the NFL? Surely the NFL is owed damages for the sudden loss of their planned security arrangements.

      1. Construction contracts have performance and payment bonds to cover stuff like that. As mentioned above unless all of the applicable contracts can be reviewed everything is guesses.

  40. If Kaepernick’s statements about the discriminatory, murderous cops are true, he and all the other nonwhites in Levi’s Stadium are better off not having the police working there on game day. So he should welcome the police union’s actions.

    1. they are not true. 42% of officers killed by known suspects are shot by black males. 26% of those killed by cops are blacks. According to NCVS, blacks commit about 45% of Part I crime

      Study after study shows no bias against blacks in deadly force

      *but some studies DO show bias in NONdeadly force against blacks*

      the latest study was by a admitted liberal black harvard prof who said it was the most ‘amazing” result of his academic career, that he found NO bias against blacks by cops and in fact in similar circs, they were LESS likely to shoot if the suspect was black

      fact.

      cops shoot blacks more often (per capita) than whites and more whites per capita than asians

      which correlate to violent crime offender rate.

      1. Sure. But if he is right, then the 49ers should hire a more racially sensitive group like the Black Panther Party to provide security.

        1. that would be sw33t. Just like Milwaukee riots (you know the one where CNN lied about what the sister of the “victim” of the police shooting said about wanting “peace”) it would be “there goes a white guy -… GET HIM”.

          Milwaukee full blown race riots.

          thanks, BLM and mainstream media

          homicide rate up 75% over previous year in Chicago…

          thanks BLM

          cops depolice and criminals get emboldened and how shocking… crime soars.

          and far more black lives are lost

          how ironic, alanis

    2. It’s either white or it’s black. There is no in between. There is no gray, let alone shades of gray. If X is not equal to Y, then X = Z. Derpity derp derp derpity bop.

      1. study after study and all the stats show cops are not biased against blacks in deadly force.

        the most recent by a liberal black harvard prof who was looking to confirm his bias

        similar to how Lott, looking to confirm his bias that more guns = more crime, found his prejudice to be incorrect and changed his viewpoint.

        the harvard prof did the same

        BLM is founded on a lie. cops are (ceteris paribus) LESS likely not more likely to use deadly force against blacks.

        1. I wasn’t responding to you, Dumbo, shut up. No one cares what you say, really. Smooches, ass munch.

        2. Too many steroids makes both your wee-wee and your brain shrink.

          Exhibit 1: Dumby

      2. Which part of my statement does not follow?

        1. All of it.

    3. I’m sure he does, since they’re keeping his silly shit in the headlines for yet another day.

  41. The main problem with Kaepernick is that he’s a run-first QB in a pass-first offense.

    Like many other running QBs he pulls the ball down too fast and starts scrambling and trying to make something out of a now broken play or takes off on a run before he really needs to.

    In a pass-first offense I’d prefer an accurate pocket-passer with a quick release (even without great down field range) behind a fantastic o-line in place of a jack-rabbit guy who’s always looking for a running gap in the defense.

    However I’m a run-first guy, like way over-balanced in favor of the run. So I want a running QB who will occasionally be called on to throw. So I’d be fine with Kaepernick on my team as long as he knows and is OK with that he’s not going to be putting up a lot of passing stats or TDs.

  42. oh btw.

    hate to say I told you so…

    (not really)

    acquittals, hung jury, and charges dropped finally in baltimore. Corrupt prosecutor facing movement to disbar.

    Freddie Gray

    due process and justice FTW

    1. Freddie Gray didn’t get due process. He got a rough ride intentionally given to him by Baltimore City police that conteibuted to hos death. Had that been a cab that was transporting the wife of an LEO to an airport it would have been considered murder by other LEOs.

  43. oh btw.

    hate to say I told you so…

    (not really)

    acquittals, hung jury, and charges dropped finally in baltimore. Corrupt prosecutor facing movement to disbar.

    Freddie Gray

    due process and justice FTW

    1. SJWs hijacked the cause of police reform and turned the controversy into a retard-fight between racebaiters and copologists.

      I think we’re aware of this.

      1. Except the commentariat is siding with the racebaiters.

        1. Please provide an example of how the commentariat are siding with race baiters? I think you are confused, maybe.

          1. Kaepernick is a racebaiter and is being sided with, very strongly.

    2. Didn’t the prosecutor over-charge the cops? It wasn’t murder, but reckless endangerment or something similar. That’s why they got off – incompetent prosecutor.

  44. Is there nothing sadder than Tulpa replying to himself?

      1. Isolated 17,20-lyase deficiency?

        1. Pancake ass.

          1. Oh, that is disturbing, Warty. I need more beerz to unsee that *makes trip to fridge*…

            1. Beer will help unsee it. Also, Gymbooty, probably NSFW if anyone out there is working tonight.

              1. Jesus Christ. I’ll be in my bunk.

                1. Praise be to HM, for her bringeth gifts of Gymbooty, Lex Twerkout, and friends.

                  1. I appreciate your praise, but Gymbooty is a gift of DEG, another god in the NH Pantheon.

                    1. another god in the NH Pantheon.

                      Huh?? Me?

                      HM, I think I found gymbooty through a link of yours. I think it was a link to datass on tumblr, or ohdatass. Something like that.

                      On the other hand, Boobpedia and ampleboobscleavage DOT tumblr DOT com (both not safe for work, and I’m not going to make a link to them here, though I might have in the past) are both sites I found on my own.

                    2. HM, I think I found gymbooty through a link of yours. I think it was a link to datass on tumblr, or ohdatass. Something like that.

                      Ah, I see.

                      You may begin the sacrifice of 3 bulls without blemish, a turtledove, and 1 cubit of grain on my altar then.

                    3. I can’t hear that Major Lazer / DJ Snake tune without instantly thinking of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6vinrXWxls for which I shall always thank you

          2. Women with pancake ass should squat more.

            1. I honestly don’t think there is a cure for flatass. Well, there is, get a woman with an ass.

              1. Yeah, you can do that too.

    1. so either I’m Tulpa, or I’m a parking enforcement officer, OR I’m a cop who violates people’s HIPAA rights?

      which one is it?

      I get chastised for (allegedly) violating HIPAA during my brilliant investigation of a high school drug dealer… but if I’m not a cop, how are those criticisms valid?

      criticizing me for it is tacit acknowledgment I’m a (damn good thx very much) cop

      hth

      or maybe that’s just Sloopy et al

      smooches!

      1. You’re not Tulpa. You’re a special breed of dumb. Get off those cheap steroids, Dumby … oh, it’s too late.

        1. What’s funny is that he’s bragging about (brilliantly!) busting a teenage drug dealer on a libertarian comment board that generally thinks the drug war is fucking retarded and one should have complete control over what one does with one’s own body. Not entirely sure who he’s trying to impress here.

          1. You mean, when given superior firepower, huge sums of free gratis taxpayer money and permission to lie, extort and break the law at will, he feels just about confident in taking on a teenager?

            I’m so fucking impressed. Right here. This is my being super impressed. Wow.

      2. criticizing me for it is tacit acknowledgment I’m a (damn good thx very much) cop

        I don’t know what this argument is about, but… if you *are* a cop, let me be the first to say :

        “Fuck off, slaver”

    2. Steve Chapman fan club meetings?

    3. Is there nothing sadder than Tulpa replying to himself?

      The love of a blind child for a 3-legged dog?

        1. That guy sounded like he was perfectly sane until he decided to skip “basic chemistry and geology” and replace it with “Vibes”

          its not “sad-sad”, really. a little awkward for the viewer. He seems *thrilled*

          How about “Lonely fat man at a Star Trek Convention? That’s pretty sad.

          1. *squints*

            Is…is that a purse?

            1. How about this =

              Pretty much everyone with a brain recognizes that Brazil is a complete shitshow due to a political system designed to enable massive robbery of the public to hand out favors to cronies.

              Yet you still have many people insisting that the problem is that that they don’t do it *Hard Enough*

              that’s pretty fucking sad.

              1. I meant that having to carry his wife’s purse was pretty sad, but then again, he seems to have found his Orion slave girl, so more power to him.

                I do think you’ve found the ultimate “sad” in that last link.

        2. Idk, all the pretty hippie girls seem to think he’s the bees’ knees.

          You could do worse.

          1. That’s true.

            Vegan game is a thing.

        3. HEEEEELP I just calculated the vibration of one of my amethyst pendants and it’s at 5, which is quite low… Why does that happen ? How can I fix it ??

          When I start thinking I may be too hard on people, and that most people are not as retarded as I think, I go to YouTube and read the comments.

      1. So a guy met a farmer who showed off his pig, which had only three legs.

        “See that pig?” asked the farmer. “Last year I was pinned under my tractor and that pig lifted the tractor up so I could get away.”

        “And the pig lost its leg then?” the guy asked.

        “No, listen,” said the farmer. “Six months ago little Billy fell down the well but the pig dived in and saved him.”

        “So *that’s* when the pig lost its leg?”

        “No. And three months ago, burglars came to the farm house but that big held a gun on them until the police came to take them away.”

        “And the pig lost its leg then?”

        “No, you’re not listening. The pig had all its legs until a month ago.”

        “So….”

        “Don’t interrupt. A pig like that, you don’t eat all at once!”

        1. (checks earlier discussion)

          I better clarify that this joke is actually about *literal* pigs, as in the farm animal, and has no broader meaning.

    4. Is there nothing sadder than Tulpa replying to himself?

      Sadder still are the people who think everybody who disagrees with them is the same person.

      1. Did you disagree with something? where?

    5. Is there nothing sadder than Tulpa replying to himself?

      Playa Manhattan setting himself up as an expert on “ORIN” numbers and claiming there are no Google links about them, when in fact he was just using the wrong acronym (it’s ORI).

      Washington State ORIs are listed here BTW.

      1. Playa Manhattan.|9.3.16 @ 9:25PM|#

        You think the NFL cruised into a town of 115,000 people and didn’t think of this?
        Riiiiight.

        You said you were a cop? What’s your ORIN? I don’t need the whole number, just the part that proves you’re in Washington State. It’s not on google, so either you know, or you don’t know. I’m guessing you’re gonna bullshit.

        ::crickets::

  45. Earlier today, I was trying to think of something I care about less than transgender bathrooms.

    Kaepernick, of course!

    Thanks.

    1. Steve Chapman fan club meetings?

    2. Leftist feminist comedians being stupid – where do they fit in the don’t give a shit hierarchy?

    3. Building the list:

      1. The artist named Dumby

      2. Tofurkey

      3. Global warming

      4. The EU

      5. CNN

      continued by more fine members of our community…

      1. I appreciate what Kap said about Hillary. So at least there’s that.

    4. They’re both sit vs. stand issues.

  46. Good news, everyone. Only five percent of the population voted for either Clinton and Trump – combined – in the primaries.

    /Professor Farnsworth

    http://www.npr.org/2016/03/19/…..re-overall

    1. This would explain the lack of yard signs and bumper stickers. Though I did see an actual retarded guy wearing a Make America Great Again hat the other day.

      1. It’s about 11% of eligible voters. It would be nice to have threshold percentage where a certain percentage have to vote or the election is null from lack of interest.

        1. But then *nothing would get done*!

          And that is like the worst thing ever.

          If there’s one thing you can count on in politics, it’s that *something will get done*. Even if it’s putting another layer on the poor and flawed substrata. …Or harvesting tax payments to pay for the layer and then throwing it at some other boondoggle codwallop flapdoodle hogwash.

          1. A smart friend who sees through BS will not vote for Johnson because congress is almost exclusively Ds and Rs; a President (Gary) Johnson would mean not much would get done since he doesn’t have a team there to push hos agendas. I told him if that were true one more reason to support him.

    1. I wish this Kestos ad wasn’t watermarked and rights managed.

      1. I bet that’s somebody’s fetish.

        1. Rule 42

          As advertising it was targeting the “posh” fetish of female customers in post-war England. She’s pretty healthy despite all the rationing.

  47. Well, Playa Manhattan sure disappeared.

    I hope we’ve all learned the lesson that if you’re going to be a dick about something, you better not be provably wrong about it.

    1. I’m right here. Nice try, son.

      1. So what is your response to your claim of knowledge about “ORIN numbers” being completely false?

        1. Uh, make the claim, and we’ll proceed from there. Mine is 1944. You can fill in the rest of the blanks, since you’ve been trolling here for over a decade.

  48. not that the 49ers will, of course, but they should simply say, “that’s fine by us…” and then see how the police like not having the extra money for a while. my guess is the union leadership would have some rank and file whisper in their ear and suddenly there would be no problem.

  49. I made the mistake of arguing with Tulpa\Plopper a few years ago. 2 hours of wading through pure sophistry. If you enjoy it, knock yourself out. The d-bag is a squid: squirts ink in self defense.

  50. I just typed “ORIN TULPA” into google, and I got a job offer at the NSA for $1 million/ year.

    1. The job market for anonymous Internet commenter fake expertise is hopping. I went into the wrong field.

  51. How is it that the redhead from the Sleepnumber commercial is not being fucked ALL. THE. TIME.?

    1. How do you know she isn’t?

      1. She took the time to make that commercial!

    2. Maybe sex bores her and she prefers loftier pursuits.

      1. [preempting a play on the word ‘bore’]

      1. Aye, see my link above

  52. Here’s a nice rebuttal to people who blame the free market for the Epipen fiasco.
    http://slatestarcodex.com/2016…..vs-chairs/

    1. Then you read the comments, and the despair only deepens.

      *you can actually explain many things in the simplest, clearest terms, and people will still INSIST that, because the very-clear explanation is inconsistent with their cherished myths, that something MUST still be wrong with this explanation, though they are incapable of saying what, or don’t have the time to explain why. They’ll even take the very-clear explanation and “complicate it” by saying that it “sounds like” some other argument which they know a stock-rebuttal for…. and here’s that stock rebuttal! WHAM DEBUNKED

      Its bloody depressing. really, really depressing.

      e.g.

      mut smut says:
      September 1, 2016 at 10:50 am

      there is a solution and it is simple. place all monopoly or near-monoploy drug makers under the same umbrella as other essential services regulation. public utilities, telephone companies, broadcast properties, roads, bridges?.all are regulated and rate controlled by public service commissions because their products are essential to society and should not be exploited unreasonably.

      regulatory board members would be elected, guaranteeing the public interest would be served or they lose their job. it works for the electric company. it will work for the drug company.

      1. Never read the comments there. It’s always a mass of ‘sperging retardation.

      2. If only that exact point had been addressed in the article. Oh wait, it was.

  53. Ratio of government to manufacturing employees.

    http://hotair.com/archives/201…..l-depress/

    1. Ratio of government to manufacturing employees.

      While I get the overall point they’re making… I don’t really buy this formulation. Government to some extent “must” grow relative to the economy. If a given sector of the economy is shrinking or growing more slowly than the overall economy, this ratio will change for the worse assuming overall economic growth. The value of the ratio, IOW, IMO, says not much about the overall economy.

      A much better critique would be something like “the growth outpaces growth in wealth”, etc.. but I understand that people fetishize “manufacturing jobs” because only wealth based on physical objects makes a nation great, or whatever. 😀

      1. While I get the overall point they’re making… I don’t really buy this formulation.

        Same here.

        I was literally about to say that the whole “manufacturing” fetish among people on the right is a sort of psychological-tell which says WAY more about the people talking than their argument.

        the idea that ‘manufacturing’ is synonymous with ‘productive’ and everything else somehow is of inherently less-value is…. fucking retarded.

        Who provides more value? the architect? or the concrete-supplier? the steel-furnace? or the engineering firm that designed their plant? etc.

        Besides, any chart like that ignores the ginormous explosion in “IT” as the core economic driver in the US. So we don’t make silicon chips = boo fucking hoo. We instead provide trillions of dollars of intellectual property using them.

        1. intellectual property

          +1 on most of what you said, but..

          I think I agree with Richard Stallman about the phrase “intellectual property.” It encourages thinking by analogy to real property which is often not appropriate.

          1. What term, then, do you use to describe “The Inherent Value in the Formula For Coca Cola”…. as opposed to the mere bottling plants, sugar-syrup, etc. that compose it?

              1. meh.

                It would be a subset but not sufficient to replace the entire concept of IP.

        2. Who provides more value? the architect? or the concrete-supplier?

          Concrete-suppliers get more steady work.

          1. i’m not sure what ‘steadiness’ has to do with ‘value-added’

            1. Architects are idle when we’re not building shit..

              Manufacturing adds value to the extraction and agriculture industries. Why export raw commodities when you can export refined fuels, chemicals, processed foods, lumber, building materials, etc.?

              1. you still haven’t explained why “steady” is especially important. Yes, some things are more cyclical.

                i don’t see where there’s any either/or scenario being argued for. Sure, “manufacturing” is a step up the chain from raw-material extraction. and the people who design applications for those materials (e.g. a booming market in, say, “New Interior Concrete Flooring“) is a step up from that. And there’s a host of things up the chain from there which enable processes to boom worldwide rather than in any linear, regional way.

                I was just pointing out that fetishizing of things lower down the value-chain seems to require ignoring that things further up the chain ‘do anything at all’. Also, that the particular chart being used in the linked argument was ridiculous – mainly in how it pretended to be showing a “decline into economic irrelevance”, but did so by masking an enormous economic boom in IT that has completely transformed the economy.

        3. I’ve at least one scholarly friend who shares approximately that fetish. It’s not exactly about mfg. per se?making small things like microcomputers, furniture, or clothing doesn’t count?but “heavy industry”. I always imagine that phrase being spoken by a squat, broad-shouldered guy in a gruff voice with an accent that combines stereotypic Russian kommisar, German functionary, Arab oil sheik, and borscht-belt-comedian-as-Amerindian. it means construction, stuff made of steel like boilers and motor vehicles, etc. He’s convinced a country can’t be great w/o jobs doing that, & doing it well, & the more the better.

          1. Oh, and he’s a conservative too; you might peg him as part of the alt.right, 3rd way, 3rd position, though he considers it the true conservatism, which at least arguably it is.

            1. Germany, Japan, and the US still make things like industrial machinery and automobiles. Until someone else does it better and/or cheaper I don’t know why “we” wouldn’t want to. Obviously this is best left up to the market but just as you don’t want the government practicing protectionism you don’t want them discouraging things we should be doing because we’re just that fucking good at it.

          2. WHERE MAH MANLY INDUSTRY GAWN
            it sounds like an existential cry from someone in late-mid-life-crisis

          3. borscht-belt-comedian

            Ike, Mike and Mustard were on a weekend outing staying at The Olde Log Inn resort. Mustard decided to take a nature hike and ended up missing for two days. When he turned up in the local hospital beaten to a pulp Ike and Mike rushed to see what had happened. According to Mustard, he had gotten lost. After wandering around for what seemed like hours he finally spotted a parked car with what appeared to be people in the back seat. Unfortunately, the last thing he remembers was sticking his head through the window and asking “How far is The Olde Log Inn?”

        4. Besides, any chart like that ignores the ginormous explosion in “IT” as the core economic driver in the US. So we don’t make silicon chips = boo fucking hoo. We instead provide trillions of dollars of intellectual property using them.

          Software has such a staggering potential ROI, in terms of time spent to create it vs. tangible aggregate life-improvement due to the work; I don’t think there’s ever been anything with similar potential. It is not at all unrealistic to say that one person can spend three months coding in his basement, sell the resulting software to a thousand people for a thousand dollars each, and pocket that million, while simultaneously saving three hours of work per day, for each of those thousand people.

          Try to work that into any sort of labor theory of value, along with the fact that you can’t come up with the core idea on demand, and that different people will be more or less apt to identify such previously-unrecognized spaces for improvement.

      2. (*my point was the term “fetish” occurred to me even before i read your comment, and you beat me to it)

    2. I guess I didn’t look at it so much as a fetish of manufacturing as just another example that government has grown exponentially. Although I was pretty drunk when I posted the link so I may not have even read the whole article. Who remembers these things.

  54. So Warty, what do I get if I post a video of me in CONTEST doing a C&J over 310 lbs?

    cookie?

    $20 to paypal?

    apology and groveling?

    all of the above?

    1. You’re proud of 141 kilos? Seriously? Post the video, you gigantic girl.

  55. So Warty, what do I get if I post a video of me in CONTEST doing a C&J over 310 lbs?

    How about you cut out the proxies and just post a picture of your erect penis, so we can all see how big it is?

    I mean… bro… do you even lift?

    1. His go-to brag is this one time the competition was a teenager. I’m sure when his testicles drop, he’ll let us know all about it.

  56. Looks like SC contracted “Keap” disease; 3 DoG penalties in the 1st half.
    Can those guys count to 40?

    1. Only if they take their shoes off.

  57. Pancaked-assed ladies: don’t listen to these dweebs – your asses are perfect just the way they are.

    1. You sir, are evil and have poor taste. Now I’ll have to do that London Andrews post I’ve been avoiding so as not to appear to be running a “fat chicks” blog.

    2. One lovely plastic bag of warm milk for you.

  58. *stumbles drunkely into thread*

    Hmm. 500 commen- whoa. Hmmmmmmm. Tulpa. Ugh. Double tulpa. Uuuugh.

    *shakes head, rubs eyes*

    New SIV blog updates? Hmmmmmmm…

    *passes out at desk*

  59. Huh.

    Coin toss…firewood or vodka today?

    I need about 3 cords for the winter. I sold a patch of timber this summer and have 100 acres of oak tops. It is an hour’s drive. Maybe I can get the artist known as dunphy to put some of that strength to good use. I will stay home and nurse a vodka and she can cut, split and stack some nice red oak.

    She cant watch herself in a mirror but the callouses will actually mean something.

  60. Shit, if the unions keep this up I’m gonna kneel/sit in front of the TV during the anthem!

    500 comments. I really hate it when you guys go on without me.

  61. Its a ln interesting position, hopefully cops will keep doing this, and when anarchy doesn’t ensue- people will realize that cops are not as necessary as they are told.

    1. I don’t like that they say ‘it’s a duty to have to serve and protect’ on one end and the other, usually when criticized, they suddenly push back with ‘we serve and protect!’

    2. I don’t think it will work out that way, but if the police are as horrible and dangerous as Reason and Kaepernick claim they are, the stadiums would be better off without them.

  62. The city owns the stadium, is req’d to provide police protection. The Santa Clara PD provides police, not the NFL, not the 49ers, not a private security firm. They are not off duty, they are on duty. Police are hired and paid to do a job providing “protection for city-wide special events, includes events at Levi’s Stadium, and to ensure a safe environment for all.” Sec 13 Police page 13 the Santa Clara Budget. “Program Mission: To manage, staff, and oversee the police protection for city-wide special events, includes events at Levi’s Stadium, and to ensure a safe environment for all.” Over $8 million dollars is allocated to the PD for Special Events Officers http://santaclaraca.gov/home/showdocument?id=15963

    “After extensive research and consultation with other municipalities, the solution devised by the City of Santa Clara created a new position of “Special Events Officer” ? sworn officers from other jurisdictions who would be brought on duty as needed wearing Santa Clara uniforms.”
    “The requirements for “double badge” Special Events Officer were strict… The position would be categorized as “as need, at will” but Special Events Officers would have full police powers in their deployment in and around the stadium to provide crowd and traffic control, arrest of offenders, report writing and general enforcement duties.”
    http://icma.org/en/Article/106…..wl_Stadium

  63. Fucking subhuman scum. Still think these pathetic losers are “heroes”?

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