Police Abuse

Man Slams Doors on Cops Who Had No Warrant, Cops Break Door Down, Kill Him

Killed after a struggle over a Taser


family photo

An unknown number of sheriff's deputies showed up at the trailer where John Livingston and Clayton Carroll lived at 3:30 a.m., looking for someone as part of an unspecified "assault investigation." The cops were apparently told the person they were looking for no longer lived there. According to Carroll, they asked Livingston if they could enter the trailer. Not without a warrant, said Livingston, who then closed the door on the cops.

And then, via WNCN:

"The cop kicked in the door, got on top of him, started slinging him around beat him…" Carroll said.

Carroll said sheriff's deputies then started spraying mace on Livingston and using the Taser, according to the roommate.

Witnesses said Livingston was not fighting back and was trying to get the Taser out of the deputy's hands.

The incident eventually continued outside.

"He (Livingston) barely had the Taser in his hand but he had it where it was constantly going off and the officer I guess  that spoke to him rolled over there, says he got the Taser and shot him in this position," Carroll said while on the deck outside the home demonstrating what happened.

WNCN saw six bullet holes in the side of the home from the shooting.

The deputies fatally shot Livingston.. They have not been identified but the Harnett County Sheriff's Office has placed them on administrative leave, which is standard procedure, and referred the shooting to the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation.

Under North Carolina's Castle Doctrine law, Livingston had the right to use deadly force, in and near his home, to repel the sheriff's deputies unless they were lawfully performing their duties. The absence of a warrant, and the sheriff's office protecting the names of the officers and declining to provide more information about the investigation that led to the home invasion, makes whether the cops were acting lawfully far from obvious.

Update: The sheriff's office released the name of the deputy who shot and killed Livingston.

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  1. War on Cops!(*)

    (*) Meaning: The story is not going to be reported anywhere else and you can bet your sweet patootie that no one will form a #TrailerTrashLivesMatter organization.

    By the way, the authorities have released the names of the deputies:

    1. No deputies listed in that link.

      1. Harnett County Sheriff’s Deputy Nicholas Kehagias was involved in the shooting incident, according to Maj. Jeff Huber. He has been employed as a deputy sheriff since July 2013 and is currently assigned to the patrol division.

        1. currently assigned to the patrol division

          Is this technically correct? Shouldn’t it say “was assigned, now on paid murder-leave until the charges are dropped”?

          1. You caught them in the fiction that he is going to be fired.

            1. I’m making $86 an hour working from home. I was shocked when my neighbour told me she was averaging $95 but I see how it works now.I feel so much freedom now that I’m my own boss.go to this site home tab for more detai….


    2. OT: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015…..cmp=hplnws

      The cop who stole it? It was under $10k, so he didn’t think he had to report it.

      1. Get him on a bundling charge.

    3. It’s not going to be reported anywhere else because the guy is white.

  2. Another innocent person murdered by Terrorists.

    1. Which presidential candidate is going to round up all the cops and deport them?

      1. Deport them where? Even Somalia won’t take them.

    2. The largest, most violent gang in the United States.

        1. You reaching for a weapon, son?

          1. My weapon of love. Now bend over.

            1. It’s not love love.

      1. They’ve gone beyond “street gang” straight to “terrorist organization.”

  3. Well that’s what he gets for asserting his Constitutional rights.

    1. That is ALWAYS what one gets for asserting one’s rights.

  4. Under North Carolina’s Castle Doctrine law

    Unfortunately, when I see this:

    The incident eventually continued outside.

    The fight occurred outside the residence. The fact that it started and was escalated by the deputy inside the residence is going to be– as my good lawyer friend RC Dean would say– a nuance that will be toes up in the morgue by the time it gets to trial.

    1. I doubt it. They forced their way into the home. They’re toast. They’ll be punished very sternly. Probably 2 to 3 weeks of unpaid leave.

      1. When did “unpaid” become a thing?

        1. Well, they’ll get the back pay when the union appeals. I mean, we’re not a nation of savages.

      2. I was thinking of 6 months of paid leave and some anger management classes.

        1. In cop-speak, “Anger management” classes means drinking beer with their fellow cops and laughing about the guy they murdered, I’ll assume?

          1. No, it means killing the guy you’re angry at, until you’re no longer angry.

      3. Prediction: This is too serious to not bring charges. The prosecutors will, of course, fuck up the prosecution, and they will be acquited (and thus able to continue working in law enforcement). They may not work for that sheriff’s dept again, but will have seamless income. The taxpayers will take this on the chin for a huge settlement. I’m thinking low eight figures, say 25 mil.

        1. Very doubtful. The “he was grabbing my weapon” narrative is corroborated by an independent witness.

          Procedures were followed. Good shoot.

          Move along citizen.

          1. When you engage in an illegal activity, if it escalates to a legitimate fear for your life, the fault is still yours for starting it. The cop looks to be guilty of felony murder.

            1. That didn’t even happen to George Zimmerman and he didn’t have a shiny piece of metal to hide behind.

              1. Martin had Zimmerman on his back and was pounding his head against the pavement when Zimmerman shot him. Zimmerman wasn’t forcing his way into Martin’s house.


              2. Tituspullo is correct self-defense cannot be claimed if you start the fight. That’s an important moral & legal principle.
                There is no evidence that Zimmerman started the fight and lot of evidence that Martin did. Zimmerman would have lost if the evidence pointed to him starting the fight.
                Maybe you only read the init headlines which wrongly report the explosive claims the Zimmerman started the fight. There is good evidence that Martin initiated the physical conflict and threw the first punch. It is hugely significant that the physical conflict didn’t start after their initial argument, but only after Martin left, Zimmerman lost sight of him (all recorded on the call) and then Martin came back leading with his fists.

                Note that throwing the first punch in a fight is a huge advantage, as there is a very good chance it will connect as will the next few blows if they are quick before the opponent is on guard. It is unlikely that Martin would have had no other injuries beside the fatal gunshot and the bruise on his hand consistent with him punching something hard like a nose, if Zimmerman had thrown the first punch. In addition, if you read Martins texts it will show he was somewhat bloodthirsty beating a guy for snitching and then wanting to jump him again bc “MARTIN: Naw but he aint breed nuff 4 me, only his nose” –goes to motive, the kind of person who would want to teach someone a ‘lesson’ for following them.

      4. Jesus Christ! I almost missed the part you wrote below about them only TEMPORARILY losing a few weeks of pay.
        Thank God their money will also make it home safely.

    2. In or near.

  5. An internal affairs investigation will show that, fearing for their safety in the presence of an assailant, the deputies acted reasonably. No charges and the officers will be reinstated to active duty with apologies from the assailant’s next of kin.

    1. Next of kin will also be billed for the bullets that fired themselves during the unpleasantness, as well.

    2. Better yet, they smelled marijuana, heard a flushing toilet, and were therefore justified in busting down the door to stop the destruction of evidence.

      But seriously, the unfortunate reality is that they’ll be given days and days and days and ample opportunity to get their story straight and invent whatever they need to justify the shooting. Why aren’t these deputies sitting in a jail cell? /rhetorical question

  6. One wonders how frequently the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation refers officers for prosecution.


  8. In better news it looks like the two scumbags in Marksville will go to jail. I am betting real jail. We don’t have any country clubs in Louisiana.

    Advice: If you are ever in Louisiana don’t do anything to get thrown in jail for.

    1. That’s… shocking. I mean it.

    2. North or South Louisiana?

      In South La, you might get away, North is another story

      1. Central, but culturally cajun (south). Small, close community with strong family values. It looks like these two were already causing a lot of problems and the video apparently shows them executing Few and his son in cold blood. One of the other cops (non shooter) says Few was no threat, had his hands up and the car was not moving. Reputedly the video shows that. The mayor and the state police are making the kinds of noises that one hears when prison is where this is headed.

        I hope they go to Angola. If ever there was a hell-on-earth Angola is it. Anyone who has never been to a max-security prison would be horrified by what they see. People who have been desensitized already by that would be horrified by seeing Angola.

        1. Yeah, Angola would be great. Wonder how long they’ll live.

        2. I’ve actually been to the rodeo.

          1. I think Charlie LeDuff filmed a special there. The Angola rodeo is kinda cool, and kinda the craziest thing ever.

        3. Angola was the brainchild of a former confederate officer to get around the whole pesky end of slavery thing.

    3. Jail (misdeameanors, sentence less than one year) is different than prison (felonies, sentence greater than one year). Presume we’re talking felony charges here.

      Also, given that they are special, it is possible that the DOC will choose to house them out-of-state. Don’t know if the feds house state prisoners, but states sure as hell house prisoners for other states and for the feds.

      1. I dated a girl from Marksville and have a few friends from there. Everyone there knows everyone else. I don’t know if you can murder a six year old there and have it go easy for you, even a cop. Any DA or Judge who did that would be out.

        1. What’s changed that indicates they’re going to jail? So far as I’ve heard, they haven’t even started a trial yet. I wouldn’t bet on any cop going to prison until a jury convicts.

  9. Pigs will be pigs.

  10. I recently found out that I qualified for VA benefits. Didn’t think I was entitled since I was never in combat. Since then, I gotten some physical and mental health care. I got to say, shitty socialized health care is better than no health care. And I qualify for a program to help me get off the street. So, thank you tax payers.

    So….my therapists, both the Phd and the MD said I had to stop reading the news because of the apoplexy shit like this and my complete impotence to do anything about it.

    1. Is that the only impotence they found?

      Asking for a friend.

      1. …..Tell your “friend” I could shoot her eye out at twenty paces, in the dark.

        1. +1 Red Ryder

        2. With your penis? I’m impressed.

      2. Excessive amounts of cannabis helps immensely. You either get a boner or go to sleep.

        Moderate amounts are also useful. Less sleepy. Still get the boner.

        1. Excessive amounts of cannabis helps immensely.

          I think I have an idea for a research grant.

          1. *snaps fingers repeatedly* you were saying?!

        2. Experiences may vary regarding the boner.

          1. I’m sure we could get a boner, with minimal effort.

            1. Want some dick!?

              1. with minimal effort.

                Check out the boner whisperer over here.

                1. That’s usually how it starts, sure.

        3. This is why I won’t get high with Epi. Maybe with his mom, though.

    2. Dude, are you seriously on the street?

    3. said I had to stop reading the news because of the apoplexy shit like this and my complete impotence to do anything about it.

      Serenity Prayer. Seriously. I learned about it when my mother was in AA, and it had “God” in it, but regardless it is good advice.

      God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
      The courage to change the things I can,
      And the wisdom to know the difference.

      Words to live by.

  11. Goddamnit, Ed. You think our nuts have recovered since Friday? This is not cool.

    1. The protocols should be respected dammit!

  12. If he didn’t want to get shot he shouldn’t have lived in a trailer that formerly housed suspicious characters

    /cop fellator

  13. Oh yeah, I was going to write some shit.

    These pigs won’t see a prison and only a few hour of jail if they are ever indeed charged.

    1) They didn’t receive any training regarding the 4th Amendment and this is a reasonable mistake of law, or 2) “He was coming right at me,” or, 3) “After the decedent disobeyed my lawful order to prostate himself before me, he inexplicable began to beat my hands with his head and other upper extremities, putting me in fear of my life,” or 4) Because FYTW.

    1. because the dead guy closed the door on them, I’m going to pick #2, fer teh lolz.

  14. The proper time to assert your constitutional rights is after they have been violated.

    1. Tony makes an excellent point. Had this dead man spent his life dedicated to fighting for his rights, this never would have happened, and he deserves to be dead for bringing the whole situation on himself.


    2. The police have special privileges and are above the law. They know they will be given paid vacations for every kill and they celebrate. Now the media will begin to smear and tarnish the victims character while releasing only positive information about the the hero cops.

      1. Its like you’ve seen this movie before.

    3. I’ll pass that along to Eric Garner…

    4. Sad but true. If you assert your rights in the presence of the cops, they will surely violate them. Though the only way to challenge them afterwards is to have several thousand dollars for legal representation, and the cops know this. Even if you have the coin, the worst that will happen is the taxpayers fund a settlement. Meanwhile the cops keep violating people’s rights.

      So as I see it you’ve got four choices: 1) submit and suck it up, 2) submit and spend a bunch of money to sue the taxpayers, 3) fight back with non-lethal force and be murdered, 4) fight back with lethal force, take a few down, and then be murdered.

      Heads they win; tails you lose.

  15. Is the illegal entry a felony?

    Does NC have that death during commission of a felony rule?

    If so, all the cops could face murder charges.

    Yeah, I can write that with straight face either.

    1. You are a funny, funny man.

      1. robc: Oh? Am I here to amuse you?

      2. Since we’re being funny, I wonder if the ACLU till represent this man.

        1. *will represent

    2. The FBI could come down on them for civil rights violation, but since white trailer trash probably not.

  16. I wonder if this case is going to be the one where everyone realizes that even warrants don’t mean shit any more. If the cops want in, they’re coming in.

    1. Rhetorical question, I’ll assume?

    2. This is the perfect case to explicate to young lawyers-to-be the de facto/ de jure distinction. SCOTUS pretends (read: dejure) that warrants are required. Top men and all. However, in the real world (read: de facto) the pigs are coming in.

      1. Put wings on pigs?

        Not hardly.

        They don’t rate wings, they rate a pitchfork up the ass.

    3. They were afraid he would flush the toilet, Episiarch. Do you want America flushing its toilet when the cops knock?

  17. a nuance that will be toes up in the morgue by the time it gets to trial.

    Ah, the magic of legal reasoning. With legal reasoning, any outcome is possible. Per legal reasoning, 1) Epi has friends, 2) Sugarfree can eat his entire weight in Snicker’s bars, and 3) John works, 4) Ken curses like a sailor behind closed doors, 5) and Nikki….with Nikki….. well there really isn’t any hope with Nikki.

    1. I have friends! I just have to rent them by the hour, is all!

      1. Fuck. I’ve been doing it wrong. I’ve been renting them by the pound.

    2. True fact: SugarFree can eat his entire weight in raw Kale. The aftereffects are…most unpleasant.

      1. He must not have a working tongue. That stuff is bitter.

  18. So, murder charges, right?


  19. Americans especially african americans don’t need to fear terrorists, we have more to fear from american law enforcement then ISIS.

    1. ISIS likely considers them prime recruitment material.

  20. The lack of proofreading in this article is painful.

  21. OT: Rand Paul is a yokeltarian!

    Rand Paul calls for moratorium on issuing visas to citizens of countries with a ‘jihadist movement’

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/…..z3rhGpfE17

    1. France, Belgium, UK?

      1. Excellent point. How can we under the circumstances allow French nationals into the US?

        1. I hate to be all raciss n shit, but it is only one sub-group of surrender monkeys causing the problem.

          1. The ones that didn’t surrender…?

            1. Isl?m is the verbal noun of Form IV of the root, and means “submission” or “surrender.” Muslim, the word for an adherent of Islam, is the active participle of the same verb form, and means “one who submits” or “one who surrenders.”
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam #Etymology_and_meaning

              1. Nice.

              2. Technically it’s submission of one’s personal desires to the will of God, which isn’t very different from what Jesus prayed in the garden before his arrest.

                Where we get into big problems is when a man or group of men claim to be speaking God’s will and demand that everyone submit to THEM.

              3. So “French Islamist” is redundant?

    2. Guess I should have scrolled the comments first.

    3. So returns PanderRand.

      Rand, pandering is okay if it works. The retards you are pandering to don’t care. It’s not going to work.

  22. So cops think tasers are deadly weapons? That’s interesting.

    1. Hahahahahah, nice, but it’ll never go anywhere. They’re only deadly weapons in the hands of “civilians”.

    2. No. They consider them tools of torture/submission.

  23. Pretty sure they’ll claim they saw something behind the guy as he closed the door and since it was a dynamic investigation, no need for a warrant.

    It’s bullshit, but it’ll fly with any jury in the nation (should it get to one) that’s getting the stare down from a roomful of uniformed goons staring at them for the entire trial.

    1. a spontaneous dynamic kinetic investigation

  24. Another split second decision. There’s no questioning those.

  25. I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess the review will show a good shoot. Ironically, if he’d gunned them down while they were kicking down his door without a warrant, I doubt many NC juries would convict him. There was a struggle though so that will be the end of that.

    1. That’s the odd thing. Juries won’t convict cops who kill unjustly or unjust cops who were justly killed. Could be worse?

  26. Should be felony murder for all the cops. Just like if it was a bunch Crips who kicked down a door and killed somebody.

    Without a warrant, the cops can only kick down a door if they can satisfy “exigent circumstances” for doing so. Here, they were looking for a person, so there aren’t any exigent circumstances, since the suspect isn’t going to flush himself down the toilet.

    The acted without color of law, so this should have nothing to do with their status as LEOs. When the homeowner closed the door on them, they had no more rights than any passerby to kick down the door.

    Prediction: they will be given ample time to put together a pack of lies, and they will all get off scot-free.

    1. You must have the same brand magic 8 ball I do. That’s exactly what mine told me.

      1. Huh, mine said “Ask again later”.

    2. The SBI says they are busy now, so it will be several months before they can investigate this incident.

      Be sure to check back in three months.

  27. Sounds as though Americans should fear their own cops more than stupid terrorists.


  28. OT: Just begging for a SNL skit.

    US Intel Analysts Warn Of 24-Hour ‘Jihadi Help Desk’ For Terrorists

    1. and if SNL was considered “edgy” they would have part of the joke be that the jihadi can’t understand the english of the guy on the help line.

      1. And Indian accent. The phone jockey needs an Indian accent.

    2. “1-800 jihad, Allah Akbar, How can I help you?”

      1. Mr. Ackbar. I have a problem…..

        1. It’s a tarp!…?

    3. Bullshit. Excuses and justification for more power. These govts are like cops. They show up and investigate after the fact. Even when they are warned ahead of time (911, Boston, Paris off the top of my head) they can’t/dont stop it.

      1. Also SNL won’t touch this. They aren’t racists but mostly they don’t want jihadis showing up at the studio with AKs.

      2. Yeah, why would they? Terrorists don’t target national security officials. Terrorists attack, strangers die, and they get money and power, so what’s the downside?

        The next time somebody we know is a foreign saboteur commits a terrorist act, Congress should bring in the head of the NSA or CIA or whichever agency should have known, and have the sergeant-at-arms execute him on live TV for his failure. Then maybe his successor will value his country over his budget.

    4. “Okay my friend, you’re saying your suicide vest won’t detonate? Have you tried unplugging it and then plugging it back in again?”

      1. ctrl/alt/delete ?

        1. A new meaning to the blue screen of death

    5. The best counter insurgency action against this is to get the help desk people from my previous job hired there.

      1. Me to the Level I tech: I’ve already pluged it in, the lights are correct, except the connection light is flashing because you have to ping the modem and activate it.

        Level I Tech: “Sir, please plug in your modem and push the on/off button”

        1. Operator: What operating system do you have installed?

          Terrorist: Windows

          Operator: Fuck.

  29. Under North Carolina’s Castle Doctrine law, Livingston had the right to use deadly force to repel the sheriff’s deputies unless they were lawfully performing their duties.

    Ignorance of the law is an excuse for the cops. So it doesn’t really matter now, does it.

    1. No, it doesn’t. And that really needs to change. I understand that a standard-issue street soldier can’t memorize the entire criminal code. I don’t expect a guy that walks a beat (or rides a Segway on his beat) to understand the nuances of financial fraud schemes.

      But it shouldn’t be too much to ask that traffic cops be required to understand the laws surrounding vehicle searches and drunk driving or that cops that serve warrants understand the laws regarding search and seizure.

      1. Here’s the thing you need to understand. They’re not law enforcement officers. They’re compliance officers. Their job is not to enforce the law. They could give two shits about the law. Their job is to make you comply. Period.

        Doesn’t matter if their orders are lawful or not. Once they issue a command, they must make you comply. Once they make a decision they must stick to it. Doesn’t matter how stupid or unlawful it was. Once the do it, they are trained to stand by it. No matter what. They do this with the knowledge that their superiors and the courts will always back them up, no matter how wrong they are. This is because power means never admitting fault. It means never being wrong, even when you know that you are. If you admit fault, then you are showing weakness. You are admitting to being human. That is not an option. You are always right, even when you are wrong, and if it escalates to a situation where you murder someone, then it sucks for them. But you will always be declared to be in the right, even when everyone knows that you are wrong.

        And nothing else happens.

        1. Compliance officers….. I like that.. I am stealing that for future use.

          1. It’s the most lucid explanation I’ve seen.

        2. Sounds like manosphere dating advice.

          BTW it works. My first GF (’62) gave me that advice after an apology of mine disgusted her.

    2. Cops are so valuable to society that their value literally has mass. So much mass in fact that it causes the very weft of law to bend around them and become changeable, and many times ignorable.

  30. Call for moratorium on visas to people from countries with signifucant jihadist mivements called for by Rand Paudl.


    1. And Rand Paul

      1. Algeria to Pakistan.

    2. Speaking of refugees: WaPo Concern Troll level: Adept.

      Would Jesus take in Syrian refugees?

      1. I’m not concerned about them as a threat but it’s not like we don’t already take in our share of the 3rd World destitute. How about those oil rich gulf states? Extra 10,000 should be no problem. We can take all the hot women though. Always.

    3. Take that growth and opportunity! I’m sure cutting off potential recruits from western influence and the prospect of bettering themselves with devastate jihadist movements the world over.

  31. Guy Fawkes declares war on ISIS. Will block twitter accounts or something.


    1. Something something 72 virgins…

      1. Be careful what you wish for

    2. Excellent. I can’t wait for them to release the names of ISIS militants who are also members of the KKK. How embarrassing!

      1. How could you shame these people? Seems like they have none.

  32. ANOTHER Carolina cop shooting a peaceful unarmed citizen minding own business. Let me guess: the politicians writing police paychecks are all Democrats and Republicans elected by (trust us!) unverifiable secret ballots, right?

  33. OT: Leader of the Free World Satirically Tells France to Pursue Peace and Restraint.

    “My heartfelt sympathies to you and the French people for the unrest which occurred yesterday. We in Israel have a deep understanding of how to deal with terrorism, and wish to share with you the advice we often hear from the world in the aftermath of such incidents.”


    1. That isn’t satire. It is what the “world” (read French) tell the Israelis ALL The Time.

      1. Pretty much. Every time Hezbollah launches missles at you from Lebanon, take deep breaths and count to ten.

    2. Very tacky of Bibi to use this moment to make that kind of point. But he does have a point.

      1. /Whack whack Greerg is Tulpa. He’s a troll,

  34. i’m at the point where if i don’t hear about something like this for a little while, i get nervous….hell freezing over and all that.

  35. At least Ed put in a full day

  36. Ohio teachers packing heat


    1. So many times on the “news” in the last few days I hear about “soft targets” with zero irony. If more people in the general population were carrying there would be no soft targets.

      Except for “gun free zones.”

  37. Anti-IP = socialism


    1. Prices are price we pay for living in a civilized society.

      1. I’m not really hardcore on either side of the IP debate but his argument made no sense to me. Anti-IP is like pro government price cont

        1. Controls

          1. I’m with MSimon below. Overrated. But if you do have the laws on the books, it definitely isn’t right to allow govt to willy nilly pick which ones will be honored. Shit, I sound like Tulpa.

            1. Don’t ever say that about yourself.

              1. *Leans in close to mirror and repeats 10 times*

            2. Yeah, I can see arguments for and against but I definately don’t see arguments against IP being “socialist” by any means.

              1. In fact I tend to lean anti-IP myself. And I’m no socialist

    2. IP is overrated. Watts’ patents on steam engines delayed the wide spread use of the steam engine by 20 years.

    3. “Anti-IP = socialism”

      It’s true.

      The important part is that Graham will be out of the race soon. Faster please.

    4. The argument in the piece is a bit more complicated:

      Basically, they are saying that anyone who is shortening the current duration of government grants of patents of monopoly to drug companies because they want increased competition in the drug market is supporting socialism since the guys without the patent will be freeloading off the guys who did the original research. It doesn’t help that he liberally sows emotional-button-pushing terms and asides into his document in an effort to whip up his readers into an unreasoning fury.

      Of course, he misses the point entirely. The problem of high drug prices is caused by the state artifically limiting entry into drug making via FDA approval and through government grants of patents of monopoly. Yes scientific research into new drug compounds is expensive, but a large portion of the expense is due to FDA regs. Moreover, the regs bias companies to research not which compounds are most effective, but which compounds will most likely be patentable and be approved with the least fuss. While the two sets intersect, they also have huge differences. A good example of this phenomenon is Neurontin where the manufacturer tried to extend the patent of monopoly on the drug by claiming to have discovered that it could be used to treat pain when in fact it did a very poor job of it.

      1. Actually, gabapentin is really good at treating neuropathic pain. Other types of pain, not so much.

  38. “Witnesses said Livingston was not fighting back and was trying to get the Taser out of the deputy’s hands.”

    Uh, trying to get a taser out of a cop’s hand is almost certainly going to be perceived as fighting back.

    Dealing with police is essentially like walking through a mine field. Should it be like that? Of course not. But that’s how it is. Don’t resist at all if you value your life. Sue them afterwards.

    1. He was well within his rights to defend himself against a home invasion.

    2. Yeah, I’m sure he would have been fine if he just let them have their way with him. Rape victims should just lie back and relax right?

  39. Anonymous declares war on ISIS.


    1. “Hackers declare war on Hackers”

    2. ISIS gets its 72 virgins

      1. Late to what?


        1. To the party, Roofie. To the party.

          1. That’s because no one invites me. I just crash them.

  40. Ho about we take the 10,000 refugees but we send 10,000 cops to Syria.

    1. We actually did do that in Iraq and according to the accounts which became “generation kill”, they were dangerous, bumbling idiots.

      1. No surprise there. I was talking about sending them there to live and not letting them come back.

      2. I think he meant permanently.

  41. “Man Slams Doors on Cops Who Had No Warrantafter asking Cops if they had a warrant, Cops Break Door Down, Kill Him”

    He killed himself the moment he tried to assert his legal rights. That’s the way everyone dies – they question the cops’ AuthoriTAH to do whatever they damn well please, and the cops feel compelled to show them that their guns and their billy clubs are all the AuthoriTAH they need.

    “You think you have rights? You think we need warrants? Time for me to pound some of my AuthoriTAH into your skull.”

    Just talking with a guy who moved here from Japan. After going down to the police station to report an accident, he said he realized cops here just do as they please, and he can take it, or he can complain and get stomped. He said cops in Japan follow the rules pretty reliably.

    1. I’ve been living here in Japan for 20 years and Americans would be shocked at the degree of restraint the cops here have in dealing with the public. I’ve seen drunks pushing and screaming at cops and the cops are just like, “OK, take it easy, cool down. What’s the problem?”. The homogeneous culture has A LOT to do with it. Of course, they do railroad you if they ever decide to arrest you, however.

      1. How about corruption?

        1. Rampant. But Govt sanctioned.

          1. I had heard that a long time ago. Wasn’t sure that was still the case.

  42. Hey, Kerry has come out on our side in the woodchipper incident.
    Kerry in Paris: Attack By “Psychopathic Monsters” An “Assault On Reason

    1. With friends like this…

  43. Exigent circumstances, the suspect had a radical beard.

    1. He might of been an Islamer!

      1. Hairophobe!

  44. Stanford isn’t gonna let Cal take the lead in ignorant mud-hugging!

    “To avoid catastrophic climate change, we need to divest from coal, oil and gas. They decided to delay, not to take the issue seriously,” he said of school officials as several students pitched tents in front of the administration building’s entrance and settled in for an indefinite stay. “We’re going to occupy this place to hold them accountable.”

    1. They should tell them they’re going to transfer if they don’t divest. Just kidding, I know they wouldn’t do anything that might require any effort on their part.

      1. Yeah, their ‘sacrifice’ is the school losing money long after they’ve gone onto slopping at the public trough.

  45. The pants-shitting racist yokeltarians just keep coming out of the woodwork. Latest example: David Harsanyi

    1. “But it is also true that many refugees bring with them ? through their culture, ideology, and faith ? the same conditions that bred the violence in the first place.”

      Bzzzt evidence not found. The welfarism that generates France’s homegrown crazies was there already, and there’s no evidence that Europe is turning into Syria.

      1. The autistic Objectivist Canuck war mongers just keep coming out of the woodwork. Latest example: ^^^^^^^^^^

        1. LOL. Pretending to be Epi won’t make you look intelligent.

          1. Quite the opposite, in fact.

      2. The evidence is all the dead people.

        Here’s my question, if the people are fundamentally the same then why aren’t all countries the same. The US should be just like Mexico. So should every country. What makes the countries different in your world if not the people?

        1. 1) Dead people is not evidence that Europe is becoming Syria. Christ apply yourself.

          2) “Here’s my question, if the people are fundamentally the same then why aren’t all countries the same. The US should be just like Mexico. So should every country. What makes the countries different in your world if not the people?”

          Culture and government. There’s lots of Mexicans in America and no evidence of America becoming Mexico.

          1. “There’s lots of Mexicans in America and no evidence of America becoming Mexico.”

            I can tell you I’ve personally talked with people who are 40+ years old that have lived most of their lives here in Southern California who would massively disagree with this statement. They’d be more than happy to tell you about how they’ve seen the culture and environment here change over the years as more and more Mexicans have come to live here.

    2. Exactly, everyone knows that the Germans were kind, humble, Jew-loving sorts who tolerated all peoples and races until the nasty Nazis emerged from nowhere and turned them all bad, and they were only able to do that because the peaceful Germans were oppressed by the terrible French. It’s not like there were veins of hatred, anger, and cruelty running just below the surface in German culture, waiting for someone to forge into a weapon. And it’s certainly not like people 70 years on from that time still sometimes use the word “German” to evoke Nazism, because that would be racist and intolerant.

  46. Witnesses said Livingston was not fighting back and was trying to get the Taser out of the deputy’s hands.

    That sounds like fighting back to me.

    The entire story in this article is told from the point of view of the idiot’s wife. But it’s what people here want to believe, so it must be true.

    1. Did they have a warrant or not?

        1. They certainly didn’t need a warrant to knock on the guy’s door and ask a question.

          1. Bu they did TO ENTER IT.

            1. Which may or may not have happened, and even if it did it may have been prompted by some other justifiable circumstance. There’s a lot of missing information.

              1. “Which may or may not have happened”

                It’s clear that it happened.

                “even if it did it may have been prompted by some other justifiable circumstance.”

                Maybe there was a unicorn at the scene.

                Fuck off TUlpa.

                1. How do you know it happened? Because the idiot’s wife said so?

                  1. Yes. I would trust her over the cops. If the cops would like to offer evidence to the contrary, they can at anytime.

                    1. You don’t even know who this person is and you’re taking their word as gospel. That reeks of WantingToBelieve.

                    2. If there’s a reason for us not to believe her or contradicting what she says then by all means present it.

                    3. Serious question: Aren’t you doing exactly the same thing with regard to the killers?

                  2. Greerg|11.16.15 @ 10:30PM|#
                    “How do you know it happened? Because the idiot’s wife said so?”
                    Because he’s dead? Does that qualify as evidence to a cop-sucker?

                    1. I believe in Tulpatown being dead is iron-clad proof of guilt.

                    2. As opposed to Reasontown where being a cop is iron-clad proof of guilt?

                    3. Greerg|11.16.15 @ 11:58PM|#
                      “As opposed to Reasontown where being a cop is iron-clad proof of guilt?”

                      I’m gonna presume you haven’t lied about being a math teacher qualified to teach at the city-college level.
                      Now, here’s the deal:
                      Tell your students that you’re such a pathetic piece of shit that you invent new handles to post where you know full well that if you were to use your first handle, you’d be ignored.
                      Please tell us how many of the 18YO (remedial?) kids can’t help but laugh, knowing full well you’ll fail them, given your rep.
                      Does your dog tolerate your sorry ass?

                    4. Because he’s dead?

                      How does his being dead prove that the cops busted in the door?

                    5. Greerg|11.17.15 @ 12:11AM|#
                      “How does his being dead prove that the cops busted in the door?”

                      So the door kicked itself down?
                      Man, you are a pathetic piece of shit.

          2. They asked their fucking question, can I come in. The guy said ‘not without a warrant’ which is his constitutional right. WTF is it that you don’t understand about that? Did they have a warrant to kick the guys door in? The burden of the proof here is on you, Einstein.

            1. Since you guys are calling for felony murder charges, the burden of proof is actually on you.

              1. Did they have a warrant? My gawd, you are fucking dumb.

              2. Greerg|11.16.15 @ 10:15PM|#
                “Since *you guys* are calling for felony murder charges,…”

                Since your sophistry has been called, fuck off, asshole.

          3. That’s twice. Ima call it.

            Fuck off Tulpa!

            1. Yer late, Frank…

              1. I called it yesterday. This is just confirmation.

                1. “I called it yesterday.”
                  Ooops. I missed the stench yesterday.

                2. I called it yesterday. This is just confirmation.

                  The burden of proof is on you.

                  1. Greerg|11.16.15 @ 10:25PM|#
                    “The burden of proof is on you.”

                    To prove you’re an asshole? Evidence supplied by you.

            2. He just can’t help himself, can he? He’s like a dog that just cant resist eating its own poop.

              1. Add another name to your safe-space filter, loser.

                1. Add another name to your safe-space filter, loser.

                  For such a new guy, he seems very bitter about the existence of Reasonable.

                  1. A tool is nothing to be averse to, only the user who abuses it.

            3. It is rather Tulpa like, isn’t it?

              1. It IS Tulpa.

              2. “It is rather Tulpa like, isn’t it?”

                Yeah, stinks like a sewage treatment plant; tulpa.

      1. I don’t know. Depending on the context it may not matter to whether it was a good shoot. I’m just commenting on the continued phenomenon of supposed skeptical thinkers believing every word that comes out of one party in a dispute simply because it confirms their anti-cop feelings.

        1. “I’m just commenting on the continued phenomenon of supposed skeptical thinkers believing every word that comes out of one party in a dispute simply because it confirms their anti-cop feelings.”

          So, to advance your pro-cop feelings, you’ll ignore the salient point (no warrant), and pretty strong historical precedents?
          Fuck off, tulpa. Your act is tired, asshole.

        2. Context,… Is there any hint that he attacked to cops before they illegally entered his home by force without a warrant? At that point they are nothing more than a gang of criminals,… Context.

        3. Fuck off Tulpa, you diseased piece of shit.

        4. Fuck off Tulpa, you diseased piece of shit.

    2. Newest tulpa handle?

      1. Gurgalot sure sounds a lot like Tulpa.

  47. Unpossible. The guy is white. Cops don’t kill white guys, the media has lurnt us this.

  48. The cop was merely immigrating through freedom of movement. That trailer was made great by allowing people in, now they want to restrict others from coming like they did.

  49. WTF is up with these asshole governors who are going all tuffgai on refugees? Where does this supposed authority to keep people out come from? Canada might suck in a lot of ways but I’m glad there’s less of this particular bullshit here.

    1. If they can regulate where sex offenders can live, they can regulate where refugees can live.

      1. They have no right to do either.

  50. I found out today that apparently only now are the French and other bomber countries going after ISIS’s oil infrastructure. No really. What a farce. Gosh, how can a campaign that’s basically hamstrung be ineffective?

    1. There’s one solution for France. Their citizens need to get angry. Not just angry, but very, very angry. Their dipshit leaders are not going to solve this, they will make it worse. Politicians are the dumbest fucking people on the planet. The only skill they have is to seek and obtain power. Once they have it, they have no fucking idea what to do with it for the good of anyone except themselves.

      1. France’s citizens are angry all the time. Didn’t help then probably won’t now. The anger has to be well-placed, otherwise it’s like a blind sniper.

        Aim at ISIS and the welfare state and the regulations that keep immigrants in the ghetto.

        1. I’m not talking about being angry at Americans because they have guns and their cheese and wine are inferior. I mean being angry at their idiot leaders.

          1. They have to be angry for the right reasons. It would be bad if they got mad at them for the wrong reasons and just wanted to deport all the brown people.

        2. The French are actually fatalist and quarrelsome which is mistaken for anger.

      2. “Once they have it, they have no fucking idea what to do with it for the good of anyone except themselves.”

        Au contraire! Hollande has a very clear idea what to do with it:

        “‘France is at war,’ President Francois Hollande says; asks US, Russia to join forces against ISIS”

        Get someone else to fight that war!

        1. That would be something new.

          1. This Autumn…

  51. This column and just the synopsis for the book it links to are better than anything on foreign policy that has ever come out of the Cato/Reason camp.

    Owing to the significant influence of Just War Theory and neoconservatism, the Bush administration consciously put the imperative of shielding civilians and bringing them elections above the goal of eliminating real threats to our security. Consequently, this policy left our enemies stronger, and America weaker, than before. The dominant alternative to Bush-esque idealism in foreign policy?so-called realism?has made a strong comeback under the tenure of Barack Obama. But this nonjudgmental, supposedly practical approach is precisely what helped unleash the enemy prior to 9/11.

    We need a new moral foundation for our Mideast policy. That new starting point for U.S. policy is the moral ideal championed by the philosopher Ayn Rand: rational self-interest. Implementing this approach entails objectively defining our national interest as protecting the lives and freedoms of Americans?and then taking principled action to safeguard them.

    1. It’s ludicrous to call Obama’s foreign policy idiocy “realism”. It’s true that realism-based FP can look like an incoherent mess, but that doesn’t make every incoherent mess into realism-based FP.

      1. “Realism” FP has always been an incoherent mess. It really means nothing. Obama’s is particularly ramshackle.

        1. Realism-based policy defeated the USSR.

          1. Crashing oil prices defeated the USSR. Foreign policy realism prevented the USA from assisting in the uprisings against the USSR in eastern Europe.

            1. Cytotoxic|11.16.15 @ 10:59PM|#
              “Crashing oil prices defeated the USSR.”

              Bullshit. Economic reality defeated the USSR.
              The ‘planned economy’ could not deliver what the populace demanded after they’d ‘seen Paree!’ High oil prices might have supported that disaster for another year or so, but Mises was right.

    2. The dominant alternative to Bush-esque idealism in foreign policy?so-called realism?has made a strong comeback under the tenure of Barack Obama.

      Anybody who writes this should stop writing about foreign policy and go back to covering high school sports, because they are waaaaaay out of their depth,. Obama is not a realist. Rather his foreign policy is largely the product of trying to look in control and dominant at all times. He is a fabulist. His foreign policy is the product of fantasy. That’s why all of his endeavors have ended in failure and collapse.

      1. “Rather his foreign policy is largely the product of trying to look in control and dominant at all times. ”

        That’s basically what American foreign policy realism has amounted to in the past.

  52. This all looks pretty fucking sad and pretty fucking pathetic, so business as usual.

    The Thick of It is fantastic and I enjoyed binging three seasons over the weekend. Malcolm Tucker is a brilliant pitbull of a man. Looking forward to the movie. Plaudits and commendations to whoever recommended it.

    1. I am sure you know this, but you should check out Veep as well, because the same guy created both. Veep is very funny.

      Jamie is my favorite character.

  53. Just got home from work and this was the first headline I saw.

    Land of the free my ass.

  54. Truly. I had been away from the internets for a few weeks and come back to the thing in Paris and this for a chaser. :/

  55. Here are two thoughtful columns regarding the European refugee ‘crisis’. Chiefly, the refugees deserve a stab at the good life and that large numbers of refugees pose a challenge for the European model of the nation state ie cultural collectivism. I think that’s only a good thing.



      1. Goddammit now I’m trapped in a Petty vortex!

        1. And there you will stay.

          It’s not so bad. Trust me.

          1. Help me C-Tox!

            1. Quick have some anti-hippie tunes to wash it away.

              1. That broke the mutha’fuckin spell!

    1. They have an appetite for free shit and are comfortable with authoritarian rule. Perfect citizens for the elite left in both Europe and the US, frustrated by middle class natives and their insistence on some degree of liberty.

      1. tulpa, do you admit to your 18YO students you continue to change handles on a site where you are universally despised in the hopes of fooling people for a couple of hours?
        Do they laugh at you?
        Why not? Do you threaten to fail them? Or are they even more stupid than you?

    2. From the first link: “Europe’s tribalism and collectivism have crashed against its ideal of liberal universalism, and tribalism is winning.”

      That is because the liberal multiculturalists wanted to sing Kumbaya with tribalists who want to cut their heads off and take their land. No shit they are crashing.

      “…the refugees deserve a stab at the good life…”, means what exactly? Deserve? Based on what? What is a stab? I think this means that poor savages from oogabooga should be relocated to modern cities and given handouts from civilized people who work for a living. This will magically transform them into bluejean wearing, big mac eating rock and roll fans. Fantasy.

      From the second link: “Italian-Americans were a major immigrant group 100 years ago: they have made America more Italian (nothing is more American than pizza and spaghetti), and are American because they swear to uphold the Constitution and adapt to the American culture of independent thinking and productive living. Chinese immigrants do the same today: they embrace and exemplify the American ethic of success.”

  56. Take classes on citizenship and then swear allegiance in earnest and you are welcome. That isnt what is going to happen, is it? We are going to ship them in in-bulk and then put them on assistance and then blanket amnesty. This is not a recipe for success.

    Again, I don’t understand this business of ‘they deserve a chance at the good life’. The world is filled with people. Are we going to bring them all in, every one, because by this standard everyone ‘deserves’ the good life. Packing all of the people in the world into the US isnt going to result in them enjoying the good life. The good life is not a thing located in a place. It is a way of life that has to be lived, practiced by people with a certain outlook and values. ‘The good life’ is something that can exist anywhere as long as the people living it live by certain principles. Adopt those principles and the good life can be lived anywhere. Bringing a bunch of people who don’t believe in those principles into a place filled with people who do is what created the ghettos of Europe.

    It isnt rocket science.

    1. To quote William Munny – “Deservin’s got nuthin’ to do with it.”

      If you want something, build it.

  57. North Carolina has no police unions. See ARTICLE 12, “? 95-98. Contracts between units of government and labor unions,trade unions or labor organizations concerning public employees declared to be illegal.”

    Mr. Krayewski frequently asserts that the problem with holding the police accountable is with police unions. This would mean that the Southern states that have no police unions and no collective bargaining should have good rules to provide accountability. They do not. The real issue — the Reason — the police get seemingly excessive process is their political popularity. Police are popular. Police organizations are popular. A candidate that challenges the police can find him/herself facing ads that say he/she is weak on crime. Liberals try to inoculate themselves by being “strong” on crime, like in 1994. I completely support the goals of more accountability, but focusing on unionization per se is a distraction that only creates more opposition to more accountability.

  58. ISIS doesn’t need to attack Americans since our own daily body count exceeds most anything they could do. An attack would be a blip in the statistics.

  59. I find it weird that “An unknown number of sheriff’s deputies showed up” but only one of them (according to the linked update) was “involved in the shooting incident”.

    1. The rest were laughing and saying “Hit him in the junk! C’mon, hal, get the bastard.”

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