Obamacare

Obamacare Has Gone Missing from the GOP Debates. That's a Problem.

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CNBC

Obamacare has gone missing from the GOP debates.

No, it's not entirely invisible, but over the course of four Republican primary showdowns, the topic has only occasionally been raised, and even more rarely debated or discussed in detail. An issue that for the last five years has been a policy priority and top talking point for Republicans has mostly receded into the background.

And, interestingly, that's happened at the same time that several GOP candidates have finally started to release plans, or at least frameworks, to replace the law. First there was Scott Walker, then Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush followed with their own similar plans. (Donald Trump, as is typical, has declared his support for policy nonsense.) 

It's not exactly as if the topic has been dropped from the campaigns entirely: Jeb Bush published an op-ed in The Washington Post just this week laying out the basics of his replacement plan. Nor has the topic disappeared from Capitol Hill. Republicans in Congress are hashing out details of a repeal bill this week.

But in the debates, the issue is minimally visible. Several candidates briefly mentioned repealing and replacing the law during Tuesday night's debate, but only Carly Fiorina discussed it at any length, criticizing the law as a crony capitalist deal made with drug companies and the insurance industry, mentioning almost as an aside that she would rely on state based high risk pools for difficult to cover individuals, but focusing mostly on the problems with the health law as it exists now.

Part of the reason why, of course, is that moderators haven't made a point to ask about it very much. But as anyone who has ever watched a journalist interview a politician knows, the answers politicians give to questions frequently don't reflect the question asked. So far, then, it appears that the GOP candidates have made a deliberate choice not to raise the issue very much, and not to dwell on the details of their replacement plans, even as they are starting to make the details known.

That's a sign of how substance-free these debates have been so far. It's also a problem for critics of the law who would like to see it repealed or significantly reformed.

For one thing, it means that these issues won't be hashed out on stage before the general election debates next year. And make no mistake: Obamacare will be a major point of contrast between the Democratic nominee, who is almost certain to be Hillary Clinton, and who ever wins the Republican primary. Even though the larger, more chaotic primary debates differ from the general election head-to-heads significantly, these early events can serve as testing grounds for descriptions that can help prepare the candidates for the inevitable main stage questions about the health law.

The bigger problem, though, is that it's a lost opportunity. The GOP primary debates have been major media events drawing huge viewership; it's the biggest show on cable television right now. And that means it's a major opportunity to make a case, both to the general public, and, specifically, to Republican voters. One of the biggest problems for Obamacare replacement over the years has been that Republicans and conservatives themselves have not agreed on what to do.

Republican politicians do appear to have to begun unifying around the broad outlines of a plan (though there remain notable dissenters), but little of this has been hashed out for the public or the base in what is now the party's most visible forum. And that means that some legitimate criticisms of the major candidate replacement plans—many from the right—have gone relatively unheard.

Selling and passing a significant health and entitlement reform is an extremely tough job in any imaginable circumstance. It's even harder without a broad consensus amongst the party's base as well as its political elites. With the debates, Republican candidates have a major opportunity to make their cases, and explain themselves, to millions of people, including many of their own voters. So far, it's an opportunity they're largely missing. 

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  1. Good point, Suderman. I have no idea how any of the Republican candidates feel about Obamacare.

    1. Republicans are taking the smart path now that Obama’s legacy is failing on its own.

      Instead of being the bad guys who kill it and take people’s healthcare away, they are going to just let it eat itself so the blame goes to the democrats.

      Notice how no one is talking about what needs to be done to FIX obamacare, there is a reason for that

      1. “Instead of being the bad guys who kill it and take people’s healthcare away, they are going to just let it eat itself so the blame goes to the democrats.”

        You think Republicans can really play chess like this? They approach to politics seems to reflect my dog an chase shiny objects and eat their own shit.

        1. +1 stupid party

          1. And yet the smart approach seems to be the path they’re taking

            1. I think it is more that they’re following a different stupid path and have forgotten to do anything about ObamaCare at all. They’re too busy combining economic isolationism with military expansionism.

  2. I can’t tell if we’re too deep into this government program by now to have any reason to think it could be repealed or not. Consensus seems to be that it’s here to stay until it collapses on its own into something worse.

    1. All of the beneficial provisions have already gone into effect. Most of the taxes, mandates, etc., have been delayed to 2017. We haven’t even experienced Obamacare as planned yet.

    2. It exists, and one can presume that campaign dollars are flowing from those who benefit from the law to those that write & execute laws. Other than fucking around the edges, Obamacare is not going away or even going to change much. That ship has sailed.

      1. This is the truth. That’s why they fought so hard to pass it. Because they knew that was the critical part. Obama gets his legacy!

        1. Actually, I think obamacare is done. The coops are failing. The numbers are not looking good. If you remove all the Medicaid additions, the numbers are bad. The thing is slowly going to die on the vine. Hillary says she will remove the Cadillac tax = obamcare dead. I really can’t see democrats allowing the employer mandate to be implemented, they will lose even more seats when that number of people must deal with obamamcare.

          1. Good. Let it die.

            And tell the idiots who get all hysterical about it to STFU.

            1. Yeah all those stupid poor people whining about higher medical costs…don’t you just hate them?

              1. Does that surprise you that he gets a sick pleasure out of other people suffering? What do you expect from some asshole who comes to a message board and pretends to be a libertarian? He may as well pretend to be the tooth fairy.

                1. You’re not suffering, you jackass. You’re always here.

                  I have my three letter code for BCBS and there is someplace to plug it in to get the plan/deductible.

                  (It is the first three letters of your ID number)

                  1. Isn’t it rather early in the day to be intoxicated?

                2. Does that surprise you that he gets a sick pleasure out of other people suffering?

                  IT’S NOT SENTIENT!!!!!!

                  IT MERELY POSTS WHAT ITS NEURAL NET HAS BEEN TRAINED TO POST BY YOUR REACTIONS!!!!

                  1. I think giving it credit for a neural net is way too charitable. It is more like a magic 8 ball loaded with Bernie Sanders quotes.

                    1. And yet, even P’sB admits that Obamacare is bad. Instead of celebrating a case of a heathen getting closer to the fold, you all bust on it.
                      I’ve been around long enough to know who PB is, but he just admitted we were right. And you all jumped all over his ass anyway.

      2. As far as I can tell, the only people who benefit are the insurance companies [that wrote the legislation]. Everyone is required by law to buy their products which now cover less. Patients are screwed because the insurance doesn’t cover shit, and medical providers are screwed because many people will not pay the huge deductible. The only winners here are the insurance companies that the government said it was protecting us from.

        1. Right. If the government actually wanted to improve access to healthcare (which, contrary to what our libtard media suggests, is different from health insurance), they would remove artificially imposed barriers or do things that decrease the scarcity of resources. Break up the AMA’s monopoly on medical schools, make more drugs OTC, give nurse practitioners more authority for general care, etc.

          1. One might hope that the various GOP senators running for president would introduce stand alone bills to do each of these things. One shouldn’t hold one’s breath.

        2. As far as I can tell, the only people who benefit are the insurance companies [that wrote the legislation].

          Did I say otherwise?

          1. Was I arguing with you?

            1. What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

              1. African or European?

                1. Here is your answer!

                  1. Clich? Bandit|11.12.15 @ 2:54PM|#
                    Here is your answer!

                    NERDS! NERDS! NERDS NERDS! NERDS! NERDS! NERDS NERDS! NERDS! NERDS!

                    1. You do realize A. that your read it. and B. how utterly outstanding that article is?

                    2. You do realize A. that your read it. and B. how utterly outstanding that article is?

            2. No, you came here for an argument.

              1. It’s “Being Hit on the Head Lessons” in here.

    3. I can’t tell if we’re too deep into this government program by now to have any reason to think it could be repealed or not.

      Regardless of which government is the “this government program” you’re talking about, government programs don’t become government programs until all the ducks are in a row and every last one of them is getting their beak wet. That many ducks and that much beak-wetting means Obamacare – just like every other government program – never would have gotten passed if there were any chance it could ever be repealed.

    4. Technically we don’t have to repeal it, We just need someone willing to come up with an actual free market plan and pass that so that it supersedes Obamacare.

      That is why “Repeal and Replace” never made any sense because regardless of what you planned to “replace” it with the fight to repeal it was probably never one they could have won as they were painted as cold heartless bastards who just want to kill grandma and bankrupt women by denying them free birth control.

      Make a new law that is better to supersede the one you don’t like and make the other guys argue against whatever “good” things you have in that law.

      1. You just want to kill Obama’s legacy because he’s black, you racist!

    5. Settled law.

      Law of the land.

      Passed by popular mandate.

      A positive gusher of crony deals and political donations.

      Oops, how did that last one get in there?

  3. Too many people getting subsides to quit now.

    1. My wife and I get the subsidy.

      I say kill it with fire. Then nuke it from orbit, just to be sure.

      Of course, I understand that I am an anomaly.

      1. Do you have clown fish living in your fronds?

  4. We lost this battle the second it was passed. We can’t even get rid of the import export bank.

    1. I thought we had a chance up until the 2012 Supreme Court case, personally, but I clearly had overestimated Chief Justice Roberts.

  5. Well, it turns out Obamacare is not a job killer, does not send everyone (or even an above average run rate) into part-time jobs, does not unravel the employer plans, does not create a “death spiral” etc.

    Basically, it is much ado about nothing.

    1. Speak for yourself Turd.

    2. YOU RAIZE A GUD POINT PB THE MEPLYOR MANDATE THAT HAZNT GONE INTOO AUFFEKT YET IS NOT KILLENG TEH JOBZ!!!!!! OMG AND HUGE INCREASES IN TEH PREMEYUMS IS NO BFD AMIRITE??????

      MUCH ADOO ABOUT NOTHINGZ!!!1!!!1!!!!! MOAR LIBBERTY!!!! FREE MARKET OBAMACAREZ@@@@

      1. ^^ this

    3. Much like you, Tulpy-Poo.

      1. Now I’m really confused. Are we just calling *all* the trolls Tulpy now? Are any of them actually Tulpy?

        1. Hey, look, everyone: Tulpy’s all “confused”, now.

    4. The job killing parts have been delayed. Where have you these past few years? Asleep?

      1. Not sure where the rest of him has been, but his head has been firmly up Obama’s ass.

      2. Only some of the job killing parts have been delayed. It’s just that most of the jobs killed so far have been jobs that would have otherwise been created. Another case of the problem of the seen versus the unseen.

        1. Yeah, all those 2-3 million high tech jobs created in mobile, biotech, semiconductors, etc over the last six years didn’t really happen.

          And their employers didn’t provide a group plan.

          None of that happened.

          1. You disingenuous idiot. Those are not the jobs that will be eliminated or left unfilled, and you know it. As is typical, the people most hurt by the policies promoted by progressives like yourself are the working poor and the working class.

          2. ZOMGZOMG HELLZ YEAH! PB YOU ARE SO RIGHT MOBILETECHUNDUCTORS JOBS IS EXACTLY CREATED BY OBAMACARE!!!!11!!! YOU NAILED IT AGAIN YAY!!!!!

          3. Is this a contender for worst PB response ever?

            1. He usually doesn’t miss the point quite so thoroughly.

          4. Yes, because I said that no jobs at all were created since Obamacare started to come into effect. That’s exactly what I said.

            Could you possibly miss the point a bit more completely?

            1. Your point was that it costs jobs that WOULD have been created – which is nonsense.

              Like Buffett (our top capitalist) has said (paraphrasing) no one looks at minutia like health premiums when it comes to making investments.

              WE CAN’T BUILD GOOGLE CUZ OBAMACARE!

              Absurd lack of reason on your part.

              1. So you admit that the 6million jobs created or saved is a lie. Well that’s some progress at least.

              2. Buffet is one of our top crony capitalists. There’s a significant difference.

              3. So, Buffett can read minds?

                There is significant uncertainty in how much employees will cost in the future because of Obamacare.

                1. So I would have a hard time believing that it has had no effect on hiring in the past 6 years or so.

              4. Like Buffett (our top capitalist) has said (paraphrasing) no one looks at minutia like health premiums when it comes to making investments.

                They absolutely look at labor costs, every time, of which healthcare costs are a large and growing portion. And since healthcare costs are essentially equal per employee, it tremendously increases the marginal cost of labor particularly in low wage occupations. Which is to say that, just like minimum wage bumps, the policy screws over the exact people its supposed to help.

                An idle working class is the biggest structural problem of the Obama economy, and Obamacare makes it harder to fix. But I’m sure you’ll completely fail to extrapolate why this is since your coke-addled brain is incapable of independent thought and can merely parrot the assertions made by others.

              5. Like Buffett (our top capitalist)

                I laughed.

          5. “2-3 million high tech jobs created in mobile, biotech, semiconductors, etc over the last six years”

            Citation?

    5. Y’all, shriek here is either a worn-out spoof or genuinely mentally ill, and in neither case is worth engaging.

      1. It just wants cake.

        1. I am all the fuck out of cake.

          1. They all want the cake.

    6. I understand that you are an Obama felating demfag troll and readily acknowledge this fact before stating the following:

      Go fuck yourself you slimy piece of shit. I know plenty of people who have had their hours cut back, their employer insurance dropped for non-compliance, and losing their current “marketplace” insurance at the end of this year because, surprise surprise, the insurance companies have been paying out way more than they’ve received in premiums over the last two years (I’m shocked that they haven’t gotten the enrollment numbers they were projecting. Not).

      You have sucked Obama’s cock since day one, and if Hillary should win you’ll be sucking hers as well. Words cannot express my utter hatred and contempt for demfags such as yourself who refuse to admit this law is a complete failure and instead continue to cheer-lead for someone who sold the American public down the river to the insurance companies all while giving us the finger.

    7. it turns out Obamacare is not a job killer, does not send everyone (or even an above average run rate) into part-time jobs,

      Yeah, this whole laborforce participation rate never recovering during the recession, and being flatlined at levels last seen in the ’70s, has nothing to do with OCare.

      Not to mention, the unusually large number of underemployed (that is, people in parttime jobs who want fulltime jobs) – total coincidence.

      does not create a “death spiral” etc.

      Too early to say. Its certainly showing early signs, in a nearly textbook fashion. The 2016 and maybe 2017 enrollments and premiums will tell the tale.

      1. BCBS if Texas has already dropped their PPO’s in the state, only offering HMO’s on the marketplace and to businesses.

        But there’s no signs of an impending death spiral.

        1. PPO’s are a thing of the past. Consider this – if a person “with health insurance” crosses his state border . . . he’s uninsured. Add that little factor to the “insured” balance.

    8. The parts of the law that might affect jobs are not fully in effect. Most employers don’t hire enough people to be impacted by Obamacare. The chains that hire a lot of people have indeed cut hours or dwindled healthcare coverage.

      Rising premiums and upcoming medicaid costs for states are much ado about nothing? The insurance companies won’t care if the pool is dominated by sick people and eschewed by younger folks, because they’ll get effectively bailed out.

    9. It’s not fully implemented yet, you moron.

    10. Palin’s Buttplug – How does it smell up there?

  6. Republicans are not going to tear down anything that the Democrats did, for the same reason that Democrats are not going to tear down anything that the Republicans did. Because why would either do anything to tear down part of their own great empire of power?

    Nothing will ever be repealed, ever. It all has to collapse under it’s own immense weight.

    1. And what a pleasant time will be had by all when it happens.

  7. It’s political strategy. If the Repub candidates start talking about Obamacare it gives the Dem’a ammunition to rile up their base. From a Repub point of view, it’s better that the Dem base remain complacent.

    1. Yeah, if any of the candidates bring it up, Hillary and Bernie will begin screeching about how the Republicans want to take away your healthcare and take us back to the dark days of 2008 when poor people were dying in the streets.

      1. The main difference on the care side between now and then is that then poor people were going to the emergency room to see a doctor. Now all of us are going to the emergency room to see a doctor.

        1. Unless your insurance decides you should have gone to an intensive care unit instead, in which case they may refuse to pay. Yup, that’s from my new insurance guidelines.

          1. After waiting 60 days for an appointment, your primary care physician will advise you ‘If you’re having any pain, go to the emergency room. Do you want some advil?’.

            Unfortunately, that is not a joke.

            1. Or, like my PCP, they’ll just quit.

              1. Or go concierge.

              2. You need better PCP

                1. Concierge.

                2. I didn’t know you liked to get wet.

                  1. Depending on what else is involved in getting wet.

                    1. According to this one PSA i saw it mostly involves tearing your own arm off to get out of handcuffs and then smashing the windshield of a cop car with your forehead.

                    2. We’re they trying to convince you not to use it?

                    3. Not sure. Before i got to the end i threw the tv out the window, took all my clothes off, ran outside, and ate most of the neighbor’s mailbox.

                    4. So you were on the devil’s weed?

        2. Now all of us are going to the emergency room to see a doctor.

          Our ED traffic has gone up very significantly (probably 30% over the last 3 years, in a town with zero population growth). It has outpaced our growth in any other area. Its not even close.

          1. Imagine people not wanting to die before they get medical help. Damn unintended consequences were unintended again!

    2. Good point. You may be right.

  8. I’m about to go in to my meeting with HR benefits coordinator to find out how much our premiums are going up, again, this year.

    Fuck you Barry.

    “We’ll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year. . . . We’ll do it by the end of my first term as president of the United States”

    1. I already found out that ours went up, again.

      1. They got rid of the last of the traditional insurance where I work. Now I’ve got a plan that costs the same as traditional insurance, but doesn’t cover the first three thousand dollars worth of medical expenses. But hey, at least I can dump additional money into an HSA to cover those expenses, and hope it builds up to enough to cover the deductible before anything major happens.

        1. Our deductibles went up about 500% the first year after Obamacare was passed. Premiums jumped about 30% at the same time. You also cannot get a doctors appointment now, it takes 30-60 days. You have to go to the emergency room if you want to see a doctor.

          Basically, for most of us, we are not paying for our own healthcare, where paying for everyone else’s healthcare.

          1. This is almost exactly the same as mine. Another 34% premium increase this year over last years 37%. I have to now drop to a lower level plan than what I was going to be “allowed to keep” 6 years ago. I’d at least like a thank you note from the thieving bastards.

            1. What you get instead is their mindless trolls on medicaid here singing the praises of the ACA.

      2. I’ve been at my current job since 2006. Every year we had an increase but the deductibles would stay the same and the coverage remained similar.

        Since Obamacare started rolling out every year we have exponentially higher deductibles and premiums that dwarf any previous increase, and the overall coverage for various ailments has gone down.

        Oh, but I’m fully covered for prenatal care, which is useful for this middle aged single guy.

        Why the GOP isn’t screaming about this from the rooftops baffles me. Everyone I know who has employer provided coverage is having the same problems.

        1. Why the GOP isn’t screaming about this from the rooftops baffles me. Everyone I know who has employer provided coverage is having the same problems.

          Why would the GOP seek to highlight something that was caused by their biggest donors, the Kochs?

        2. That’s called progress.

        3. My take-home pay is now less than it was when I made ten grand less than I do now. All health insurance.

          1. Pretty much the same here. Yearly raises never equal the increase in health insurance costs. We’d need to go back to the days of 12% raises to get there. Unfortunately, our all benevolent government has put an end to that too.

            1. I got a $10K raise about five years ago. My paychecks after health insurance gets taken out are now less than they were before I got the raise.

              1. But the warm glow of contributing to the common good makes up for it, right?

                1. Um… let me contemplate on that… ok, hell no.

                2. +1 Winston Smith

        4. My deductible has not increased $1 in 8 years. My premium goes up about 5% a year. Big employer backed plan (BCBS).

          1. I’m on BCBS, and my deductible has gone up two of the last four years with a steady premium increase of 12% per year.

            Check your employer’s financial filings. I’ll be the reason you haven’t seen an increase is because they are absorbing the cost increases for you. Not every company can do that. (Kudos to the companies that can and do, though.)

            1. No, it isn’t that. He’s lying.

            2. So far my company is eating the cost increases. I hate everything about my insurance plan except for the fact I don’t pay a dime for it.

                1. No, I didn’t accuse him of lying, I accused you of lying. Because you do it so much.

          2. I have the same plan. You’re a liar and a clown. Your deductibles would have went up a hell of a lot under that plan.

            Let me fix it for Buttpig, since he’s unable to tell the truth.

            ‘I’m a bum and I don’t work and I won’t. My medicaid is free, for me’.

            /Buttpig

            There, that’s better.

            1. You don’t know what my employer negotiated with BCBS.

              Quit lying.

              1. We know you’re on Medicaid. Stop lying.

            2. You’re no doubt stupid enough to think that BCBS is a “plan”.

              1. I should know what BCBS is, you fucktard, it’s what I have through my employer. And I know if you have any employer backed plan that your deductible went up, like it did for everyone else. This is why it’s so easy to catch you in your lies, because you aren’t even creative about it.

                1. It’s not lying. It’s not sentient. The sooner you guys realize you are debating the functional equivalent of a poorly programmed chatbot, the better your lives will be.

          3. You are a lying sack of shit.

        5. exponentially

          I don’t think that work means what you think it means. Perhaps you meant “double-digit percentages”?

          1. It’s compounding.

      3. Butbutbut, Barry said premiums will go down for the typical family, and PB assures me that this is the case. Ergo, Hyperion, you and Tman are quite obviously atypical.

    2. Obamacare is not a job killer

      here.

    3. does not send everyone (or even an above average run rate) into part-time jobs

      here.

    4. unravel the employer plans

      delayed.

      1. You do know that Butthead cannot read any of that stuff with his head shoved up Obama’s ass, right?

        1. “Hyperion|2015/11/12 14:06:55|#5706834

          You do know that Butthead cannot read any of that stuff with his head shoved up Obama’s ass, right?”

          FTFY

      2. those were for shriek.

  9. Look at your Facebook feed and see how many ACA fans are complaining about their new ACA plans. In Chicago the largest provider (Northwestern) is no longer covered by the largest insurer (BCBS). This ought to be a chip shot.

  10. So far, then, it appears that the GOP candidates have made a deliberate choice not to raise the issue very much…

    And the moderators have also “made a deliberate choice not to raise the issue…”.

    I suspect the moderators would have broached the subject unless they wanted to leave it out. It seems such an expected topic, it must come up when they decide which questions to ask. So, I think they’re just ignoring it for some reason. Maybe because repealing OCare is such a popular concern amongst ordinary Americans.

  11. Obamacare Has Gone Missing from the GOP Debates. That’s a Problem.

    Here’s my two cents, and y’all can pile on and tell me I’m so very very wrong.

    But the GOP has simply been out-demagogued on this. Despite the obvious structural problems with Obamacare, and the real and measurable damage it’s doing to both the healthcare system and the patients who find themselves in it, speaking out against Obamacare gets a phalanx of defense from not only the democrats, but the media at large. The act of pointing out those structural problems places you into the ‘you just want to deny poor people healthcare’s life-giving nectar’ box with lightning speed.

    Obamacare is here to stay. And only when Democrats quietly admit the structural failures, will that be the opportunity to instate single-payer.

    That about wraps it up for my two cents.

    1. Yep. All failures will be blamed on freedom, and the solution will be more government control. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    2. Yeah, that’s about right…

    3. Agreed, even back during the Hobby Lobby case there were articles saying that was a case showing we should have single-payer.

    4. You are right about the reflexive defense from Democrats & the media (redundant I know), but I’ll be naive and hope Obamacare is put out of our misery once there isn’t a Democrat in the White House.

  12. Start making cash right now… Get more time with your family by doing jobs that only require for you to have a computer and an internet access and you can have that at your home. Start bringing up to $8596 a month. I’ve started this job and I’ve never been happier and now I am sharing it with you, so you can try it too. You can check it out here…
    http://www.HomeJobs90.com

    1. Is HomeJobs90.com covered by the employer mandate?

  13. Trapped By Reality
    Republicans get the Affordable Care Act wrong on unemployment, cost and the uninsured rate.

    Obamacare is saving the feds $60 billion a year on health care expenses (see article). Of course a few people are paying high taxes.

    Bottom line: The GOP is wrong as usual and the Democrats over-hyped something again. It is NOT a “big fucking deal”, Joe.

    1. I LOOOOVE YOU PB!!111!!!!!!!ONEONEONE!~!!!!!

      1. +1 Trashcan Man

        1. You called?

    2. Compare and contrast:
      http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07……html?_r=0

      WASHINGTON ? Health insurance companies around the country are seeking rate increases of 20 percent to 40 percent or more, saying their new customers under the Affordable Care Act turned out to be sicker than expected. Federal officials say they are determined to see that the requests are scaled back.

      http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-control-costs/

      The Affordable Care Act controls both consumer and industry costs. This includes cost controlling measures that affect low-income and high-income consumers, hospitals, drug makers, medical device makers, public health insurance, private health insurance, and more. The ACA leaves no healthcare stone unturned, but some argue despite this, it doesn’t address some of healthcare’s biggest problems well enough.

      I’m glad things are getting so much cheaper.

    3. Wow. Your source is Vox (Referenced in your article). The REPORTERS at Vox are certainly not ideaologues of any form. Oh now.

      You may note that may of those “cost savings” were over the entire decade…..because they are anticipating taxes that haven’t gone into effect yet.

      On top of that, the “GOP’s” (not just the GOP, but many, many independent studies) predictions haven’t come true because the implementation of the parts of the law that would cause this has been delayed until 2017. Conveniently after a presidential election so that the Democratic party doesn’t look bad when everything fell down around their ears when it was supposed to go into effect in 2015.

      And it is a “big fucking deal” to the millions of Americans that are picking up a direct increase in taxes, premiums, and deductibles that are destroying their finances, coupled with no pay raises to afford those increases (possibly driven by the increased costs employers assume under the ACA-compliant plans).

      1. It’s Shreek. He’s a pathological liar and sociopath hard left ideologue. He doesn’t care how much this is hurting people, he care’s about his idol Obama’s legacy and the fact that he just go more free stuff.

      2. The article says savings will be “$600 billion over a decade”.

        I did the division for the math-challenged Peanuts.

        Obamacare is saving the feds $60 billion a year on health care expenses (see article).

        1. Oh, so you’re treating 10 year projections as established fact and discounting its impact on current year, even though there’s no actual cost-reduction demonstrated in year 1 (aka “Now”)

          Very scientific of you. Didn’t you pretend to be financially literate once?

          1. You can summarize every single thing that Shreek says in two words:

            Obama gooodddddd.

            That’s all there is.

        2. $600B is not necessarily the same as $60B per year. You assume too much.

          If you’re going to average, then you should say so. Otherwise, you’re assertion that some of us are “math-challenged” is ironically pointed at yourself. Showing that you can do arithmetic but that you don’t understand series, and then heckling others by calling them “math-challenged” is throwing egg on your own face–as it were.

        3. Is that dollars “created or saved”?

          1. Hey, the Federal Reserve article is over there, bub.

        4. Would tis be the sme projection that called for 20 million enrollees in 2016 that will turn out to really be 10?

          1. The chocolate ration has been increased from 25 grams a week to 50 grams a week.

      3. I worked more last year, in part to cover the increase in healthcare, and the government decided that I got too much in my “subsidy” and needed to pay it back.

        Of course the insurance that my wife had through her company pre-Obamacare worked just fine for us and cost less than the premium AFTER the subsidy, but in the demfag’s mind we don’t exist.

    4. It’s so wonderful, we went from 40 million uninsured to 30 million (most of the reductions through Medicaid expansion). What about the 30 some million people with no health coverage? They’ve had years to sign up, but have elected not to. How do its supporters believe this is a success when it hasn’t covered 75 percent of the people that it was supposed to cover?

      1. Oh, but the mandates will take care of those remaining 30 million by forcing them or their employer to buy insurance. Patience, it’s all in the plan.

    5. PB – the democrats are pro-choice – their central committee decides what’s best for you – a total ignoramus .

  14. does not create a “death spiral”

    here.

  15. OT: The Swiss will fussily apply their rules to anyone, no matter how important or rich or powerful.

    http://www.bilanz.ch/unternehm…..rst-499383

    For those of you that don’t read German – Brit dude is in charge of the most important Swiss regulator – FINMA, the Financial Market Oversight bunch. He has been in Switzerland for manya year, and has expressed the desire to naturalize. You have to be in country so many years…check! You have to live in the same canton for at least two straight years….oops, he moved from Zurich Canton to Bern Canton…WAIT ANOTHER YEAR Herr Einb?rger!

    1. Do your Swiss masters know you post here?

      1. My work hours and duties are …. odd.

        1. As long as I get things done, I suspect they would not care if I took up post-modern clog dancing whilst belching the Swiss National Anthem.

          1. “Post-modern clog”? Oooh, arent *we* fancy. I guess you look down on all us Modern-Contemporary-Clog types, don’t you, mr abstract-expressionist-clogging? Well, we’ll see who brings in the big bucks, mister. See you @ #MonstersOfClog2016

  16. Obamacare Has Gone Missing from the GOP Debates. That’s a Problem.

    Not really. Practically every candidate said in their closing arguments that they would repeal ACA.

    I think that ObamaCare is a Check-Mate. Good luck taking away health insurance from all of those new receipients without replacing it with Republican-Care.

    1. No, the GOP won’t face a voter backlash if they run on repeal. The beneficiaries of the ACA are the working poor who notoriously don’t vote in high numbers. Part of that is due to the fact most have to work on the single Tuesday we can vote – or the states that allow early voting they are blocked. Some of it is apathy.

      Now the Medicare-dependent crowd fucking votes (and for the GOP).

      1. ” The beneficiaries of the ACA are the working poor “

        Bullshit. If they’re Poor they qualified for Medicaid already. the ACA did nothing for them but punish them if they happened to have had a low-cost insurance plan already.

        1. Most of the newly insured on Obamacare got dumped into Medicaid.

        2. He is referring to the Working Poor. These people are ineligible for Medicaid…at least in NYC.

          1. “”He is referring to the Working Poor. These people are ineligible for Medicaid…at least in NYC.””

            bullshit. Medicaid is available to people based on income level. If they are “Poor” as you claim, then they’re eligible. If they’re making “too much money” to qualify, then they’re not fucking poor, are they?

            if you’re trying to claim there’s some significant population that didn’t have access to medicaid which the ACA suddenly magically provided access to, SHOW ME. Because in the vast majority of cases, the “expanded” population that got covered was already eligible before the law even passed.

            1. the vast majority of cases, the “expanded” population that got covered was already eligible before the law even passed.

              I don’t believe this to be the case. Like I said, here in NYC, I know two girls that are working poor. They where not eligible for Medicaid. When ACA came, they got Medicaid. But this is the only case I know and it is in NY State. I don’t know about other states…especially those that didn’t extend Medicaid.

              Once again, I’m really impressed with John Kasich. To his claim, Medicaid was some 9% of a certain budget. He was able to lower it to 2% without removing anyone from the plan and without removing a single benefit. Just cost savings.

              1. Once again, I’m really impressed with John Kasich. To his claim, Medicaid was some 9% of a certain budget. He was able to lower it to 2% without removing anyone from the plan and without removing a single benefit. Just cost savings

                What is the magical formula that he used? Seriously, 9% to 2%, same numbers, same benefits. Where’s the missing variable in that?

                1. This is his claim as governor of Ohio. I have not verified or seen the Politio thing.

                  He claims that the savings came from consolidation and letting people go.

                2. Lowering the reimbursements for services, so that providers refuse to take on new Medicaid patients, or drop out of the Medicaid system all together. If people can’t get service, costs go down. Voila! Plus, the providers can be used as political fodder, since politicians can point out how mean-spirited they are to refuse to work below cost.

                3. Where’s the missing variable in that?

                  Reality?

              2. So what you’re saying is you don’t actually understand the law or what existed beforehand… but you know some girls who said something.

                1. The 2 girls also said global warming is real. Nuff for me.

                2. No, I tried to get them some of these plans for mothers and kids. She just wasn’t eligible for anything and yet couldn’t really afford health insurance.

                  1. “I tried to get them some of these plans for mothers and kids. She just wasn’t eligible for anything”

                    Bullshit. if they were low-income mothers they certainly qualified. at the very least their kids alone.

                    If they wanted individual coverage themselves they had COBRA

                  2. Well, I’m not really sure what poor means in NYC. I mean, you can’t actually live in Manhattan if you’re poor, maybe homeless. Of course, I know that they are perfectly capable of taxing you poor.

                    1. ‘you can’t actually live in Manhattan if you’re poor’

                      There’s a not-insignificant # of public housing projects in Manhattan where people are paying a few hundred bucks for multi-bedroom apts…. right across the street from where it costs a few thousand for the same. Well… not *right across the street*, but a hell of a lot closer than they used to be. Its perfectly possible to be below the poverty line and living in manhattan.

                    2. Shit, the entire lower east side was wiped out and turned into a sea of dozens public housing towers. Much of upper Manhattan too. It’s sickening how much of the city they destroyed in that fashion.

                    3. It’s sickening how much of the city they destroyed in that fashion.

                      But it was progress. And that’s what matters. It was also for the people (well not the people who already lived and worked in the neighborhood).

                    4. Bingo! One girl lives in Yonkers because she couldn’t live in NYC. Made $33k on the books has one boy. Rent is $1400. Has a car that her father bought her and the insurance and gas kills her.

                      It’s hard to live on $30k in or around the Metro NYC area. Yet, you are not poor enough to get medicaid…until ACA, that is. I believe it had to do with the Medicaid Expansion in NY State.

                    5. She should pack her belonging and her son in that car her dad bought her and head south.

                    6. Are you crazy? In the South everyone is KKK! You can’t go out at night, they’ll get you! Even if you’re not a person of color, they’ll know you are not one of them, cuz you talk funny!

                    7. The person you describe would have already been eligible for Family Health Plus in NY, before the ACA was ever passed

                    8. That’s one of the plans we tried for. She was rejected at the time.

                    9. It’s hard to live on $30k in or around the Metro NYC area.

                      Bullshit. You might have to refrain from procreating or god-forbid get a roommate but it is not “hard” at all. I made well under that for my first 10 years or so in NYC and got along fine.

                    10. Shhh Rhywun, you’re interrupting his narrative.

                    11. That’s a real problem, isn’t it?

                      I mean, on he one hand, good NY liberals want to take care of he poor and unfortunate.

                      On the other hand, they really like to charge enormous sums of money for things like housing, etc.

                      What’s a poor liberal to do?

                      Sounds like a problem that the taxpayers of he entire USA need to solve.

                      In the mean time, I’m sure you offered to fund a premium support plan for them.

      2. Now the Medicare-dependent crowd fucking votes (and for the GOP)

        No you don’t.

      3. You are right, the GOP voters will vote for them no matter what.

        But people in the middle may sympathize with the newly screwed.

      4. PB you are like a small primate eating it’s own feces. Everyone observing you just wants to smack you with a stick and say “Stop doing that !” Yet we all know you will never stop eating your own feces.

      5. The beneficiaries of the ACA are the insurance companies.

        1. Mostly, and people like shreek who don’t work and love taking advantage of other people who do.

    2. “taking away health insurance from”

      Medicaid isn’t really “health insurance” – its mediwelfare.

      1. Yep.

        and aren’t there provisions of it which try and recoup costs? i.e. if you incur some significant treatment, they try and recover some of the cost after the fact?

        1. That presumes that you ever get off of it.

        2. In some states if you’re over 55, they come after your estate.

      2. Another example of “coverage” that stops at the border of your state.

  17. This is why I’m no longer Republican, even the hyphenated -libertarian form. If the Republicans aren’t just shrugging their shoulders at the Democrats driving our monetary/fiscal/economic bus over the cliff, they are driving it there themselves, MAYBE a little bit slower. The Republicans are turds. What makes me sickest of all are the sheep out there that still bleat on about “lesser of two evils” as if a two year separation between absolute collapse is a selling point.

    1. Agreed. That’s why I’m going to jump on the BERN train, ChooChooo!!! Go BERN train, let’s BERN it down now!!! BERNIE THE BERNINATOR, BURN THE VILLAGE, BURN THE PEASANTS, BURN THE ECONOMY, BERN, BERN, BERN!!!

        1. BERNINATE Hillary’s wig!

    2. “W]hat makes me sickest of all are the sheep out there that still bleat on about “lesser of two evils”

      This point has been made frequently.

      and not to repeat the claim you find distasteful (and i myself dont care as much as others have accused me of)… but there’s no getting around the fact that *there really are (sadly or not) only 2 options*…

      …and while non-participation may be morally-gratifying, its doesn’t actually do anything to change that status quo in any way.

      My personal view is that i want to see changes in a fairly narrow group of specific policies.

      I don’t care about the entire package of any political party, or even their actual avowed policy ‘goals’; I just want to see certain things either move in the direction i prefer… or at least stop moving away from that direction.

      In this case, i’d like to see what has been a trend towards state-takeover of the healthcare industry stop; moving towards “greater liberalization” may not be pending, but at least I’d like to see the tentacles loosened up slightly.

      1. My personal view is that i want to see changes in a fairly narrow group of specific policies.

        Me, too. And I see no reason to believe that either party is materially more likely to push those changes. Fuck ’em both.

    3. It is about the lesser of two evils.

      The fact is that Money is MADE UP.
      People suffering of disease is REAL.

      1. And is the health care to be purchased with made up money made up as well? I know, I know, calling it taxation means that it isn’t theft.

      2. Human prosperity is the direct consequence of all the “made up” things humans have developed to be smarter than the other animals. Nature is the ultimate “reality”. The ability to make up useful things–like money–is what enables us to alleviate things like “people suffering of disease”.

        Or, as Heinlein puts it:

        Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded?here and there, now and then?are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

        This is known as ‘bad luck.’

    4. I’m pretty much where you are, toolkien.

  18. Is that $2,500 a year savings ever going to happen?

    1. Oh, yes.

      Its just that it will be in “Zimbabwe dollars”

      1. That is if negative monetary value is possible.

      2. Fun fact – this is the third totally unrelated Zimbabwe inflation reference I’ve seen today

  19. You know, the really crazy thing about all of this, is that where I live, long before the ACA there were healthcare clinics and not just a few of them, where you could go for medical care and they charge you a rate depending on your income and if you have none, you don’t pay anything. Funny how that existed and it didn’t make my deductibles skyrocket and make appointments take 30x longer to get.

    1. It is ashame that those clinics went away. I was always a big fan of them.

      1. Obamacare made then go away.

        1. Nuh uh.

          /every asshole demfag here

  20. Here’s how to fix healthcare

    How to fix medicine

    Sure, some of it’s a little pie in the sky stuff, but it’s the best hope we have, the only hope really.

    Technology, the only thing that has ever improved the condition of humankind and the only thing that ever will. Just think of it as the opposite of government.

    1. I’m getting that TED Talks vibe, with a luminary guru poncing around the stage with a headphone mic.

      1. You definitely don’t want to watch Diamandis, he’s annoying as hell. But that’s a good article.

        1. Ugh, no. It’s beyond pie in the sky.

    1. THAT’S SO FUCKING RACIST I CAN’T EVEN!

      1. “”So much nuance….I have to think?…..I HATE THINKING!””

  21. no one looks at minutia like health premiums when it comes to making investments.

    This shriek of stupidity is so fucking retarded that I had to post it here, separately, to admire that it can function despite this level of disability. You really are in inspiration for those who’ve been told they have minutes to live, shriek.

    1. no one looks at minutia like health premiums when it comes to making investments.

      Yeah, why would anyone look at the second biggest component of the biggest expense of a business they are looking to buy?

      Due diligence is for chumps, amirite?

  22. I am sure I speak for everyone on this thread when I ask: when can I start blaming the Jooz for the exorbitant cost of my healthcare?

    1. What? You aren’t already blaming them? I blame them for kosher stuff. Why does it exist? I don’t understand what the fuck it is, and that bugs me. I don’t like it and I want it outlawed. Also, they wear funny hats and I don’t like that either. Surely, they are responsible for all that’s bad in the world. Can we just ban Jews?

      1. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

      2. You know who, uh, who else…

  23. I think all of the candidates had to adjust their debate strategies in response to the wild card that is Donald Trump. He rocketed to popularity by engaging in “America first” populism and demagoguery involving immigration.

    They’ll go bonkers over ACA during the mid terms, because it’ll galvanize their base at the state level. But at national level, it won’t win them many converts until the worst of the law starts taking effect. “Expanded medicaid in states well managed and will actually cost less then expected” is not a headline you see on papers.

    1. Expanded medicaid in states well managed and will actually cost less then expected” is not a headline you see on papers.

      Probably because its not true at all?

      http://www.wsj.com/articles/me…..1446852197

      Florida and Utah taxpayers will thank their legislators in the years to come. Consider the experience of the states that did expand Medicaid. “At least 14 states have seen new enrollments exceed their original projections, causing at least seven to increase their cost estimates for 2017,” the Associated Press reported in July.

      Remember, the feds paying 100% of the bill for expansion comes to an end next year.

  24. If King Obama likes your plan
    you can keep your plan
    He’s pro-choice
    He decides
    what’s best
    for you
    a mere mortal

  25. Why should we fret? Obamacare is taking care of itself with a nice bow on a silver platter. Government is just too wasteful and permissive of fraud. If we win the presidency you will hear a whole lot more about obamacare, and then a whole lot less.

  26. Let’s bring true competition to Healthcare. What we have had is a monopolistic system and yet government still couldn’t compete.

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