Police Abuse

Councilman Tasered in Texas over Crime of—Actually There Wasn't Even a Crime.

Occurred in same town where Sandra Bland was arrested for no good reason.

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Well, at least nobody thought he was "reaching for his waistband."

Everybody remember Sandra Bland? She was arrested in July in Texas for apparently refusing to put out a cigarette during a traffic stop in Texas. She was subsequently found hanged in a jail cell. Her death was ruled a suicide, but the case has prompted a federal investigation.

The stop and arrest took place in Prairie View, Texas, a small town with a population of 5,000. Yet just three months later, that small town is back in the news with another report of possible abusive police misconduct.

In this case the victim is actually a city council member in this small town and a group of his friends. A confrontation ultimately ended with the council member, Jonathan Miller, 29, being Tasered for "resisting arrest."

What makes this incident noteworthy—I don't want to say "strange" or "unusual" because these approaches most certainly happen with great frequency—is that there is no evidence that the police had any actual reason to roll up on these guys in the first place. Here's how KHOU in Houston, Texas, summarizes the incident, which was recorded by body cameras:

It started when Officer Goodie pulled up to question three of Miller's fraternity brothers, who had come out of his house to practice a step routine for Homecoming. They were standing by one of their cars changing their shoes when she arrived.

"There's been drug activity, little girls and little guys in the car doing whatever, so when we see this, we come investigate," Officer Goodie says on the tape.

Councilman Miller came out to ask what was happening to his friends.

"They were at my house," he said. "OK, I don't know that pulling up," Officer Goodie answered. "OK, that's fine, I'm not trying to be combative or anything," said Miller. "OK, I'm not either," replied Officer Goodie.

Then a second officer, Officer Kelley, tells Miller to step away.

"This is a scene, come on," said Kelley, reaching for Miller. "Officer, please do not put your hands on me," said Miller.

Kelley answers, "Go over there before you go to jail for interfering, go over there before you go to jail for interfering."

Though Miller wasn't doing anything but trying to talk to the police, Kelley suddenly decides he's going to arrest Miller after all. Now, on the KHOU report that ran Saturday, the police said at the time that Kelley and Miller "wrestled" and both ended up on the ground. But footage that Today showed this morning had Miller alone on his knees, passive at the point when he gets Tasered.

And note that Kelley calls this encounter a "scene" like a "crime scene," even though at no point is there any evidence presented that a crime even happened at all, let alone that these guys were involved or a legitimate suspect of any illegal behavior.

One of the officers involved was also directly involved with Bland's arrest, but officials note that the town only has six officers in the first place, so that sort of overlap is likely. Also overlapping is that the escalation of police force seemed to have occurred in both situations when the individual attempted to assert just a tiny bit of personal autonomy in the face of aggressive police behavior. Watch the incident below:

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  1. “Miller alone on his knees, passive at the point when he gets Tasered”

    Evidently “On his knees” isn’t quite “bent over” enough for those officers.

    1. I suspect they prefer their victims ass up, face down.

  2. “There’s been drug activity, little girls and little guys in the car doing whatever, so when we see this, we come investigate,” Officer Goodie says on the tape.

    Ok, you guys just made that up.

    1. Look, people could be doing whatever, and we just can’t have that going on!

      1. Says ‘Officer Goodie’. Classic.

  3. Question: Did the cops go home safe that night?

    1. Question: Did the cops get overtime that night?

  4. I like to think I will be safe just avoiding cops at all cost – don’t call them, don’t walk up to one – but when they get in your face looking for a rumble WTF are you supposed to do?

    1. Just fall to the ground, soccer flop style?

      1. You don’t think they’ll shoot you prone as soon as standing?

        1. It’s kinda like being mauled by a grizzly. You’re probably dead either way. Only thing you can do is play dead, protect your head with your arms, and hope it loses interest before it finishes you off.

        2. like that kid at the BART station in SF

      2. “HE’S LUNGING FOR A GUN!” *bangbangbangbangbang*

        1. “The accursed then reached for the ground in an aggressive manner. Fearing for my life I…”

      3. When you’re rolling around play acting, that’s when you get shot.

  5. There isn’t a “War on cops”. Yet. They keep this crap up? No bets.

  6. The last words on the clip were, “Now to a scary case….” One shudders to think!

  7. Can’t find fault with Goodie (assuming that there really was some kind of complaint that he was responding to, which I’d like to see confirmed).

    Seems like its Kelley who treats the whole world as a permanent crime scene and starts every conversation with an assault.

    Who tasered the perp, anyway?

    And, who lied about there being a struggle?

    1. Nobody did. The perp was tasered. Events were misinterpreted. Passive voice was employed.

      1. A police adjacent tasering.

    2. Goodie is a woman and she just rolled up and started harassing these guys. The male tasered and if you took two seconds to find all the footage available they did have a scuffle.

  8. What’s good about this being a city councilman is that there may at long last be someone in a position of authority who is motivated to do something about this, at least within his small territory.

    1. Not much changed when the Cheye Calvo raid happened. Wouldn’t expect this to change much either.

      1. “Bitch set me up!”

  9. It shouldn’t be glossed over that a bunch of colored kids dancing is a clear threat to public safety.

    1. Sharon: Those kids showed up to serve Stan again, and he danced back.
      Randy: Well, what happened?
      Sharon: It’s on.

  10. I personally thought it was pretty “funny” how the officers camera “fell off during the confrontation.”. But, I’m sure that was pure coincidence.

  11. One of the officers involved was also directly involved with Brand’s arrest, but officials note that the town only has six officers in the first place, so that sort of overlap is likely

    So it’s clear that national attention and federal investigations don’t temper this behavior. I wonder what might?

  12. Hate to say this…but watching the video it is pretty clear Officer Dufus told him to do something and he didn’t comply.
    Proceed with the copsucker comments.

    1. Even if true, why should he have complied?

      1. Respect his authoritah!

      2. Because, duh, as we read around here, cops are often trigger-happy and/or sociopaths. So when they tell you to do something basic like “Move over there” or “Don’t interfere” or “Put your hands behind your back,” it’s a good idea to follow along.

        I really don’t get the attitude that one should be a pain in the ass to people with guns and authority, and then expect everything to come out roses. This is not the same as saying that we should all meekly bow to authority and give up our rights. But discretion is often the better part of valor, and the more confrontational people are with cops, the more excuses they have to “not take a chance” and treat you badly. “Stepping away” when a cop tells you to is hardly a violation of civil rights worth getting into a confrontation about.

        1. Somehow, after all the crap you blather, you still always end up at the conclusion that the person who the cops assault or kill is always wrong. Actions speak louder than words, cop-sucker.

          1. Especially if it’s a black kid getting brutalized by the pigs. Don’t forget the best part about our Papaya.

          2. No, either your reading comprehension is failing, or you are being intentionally obtuse.

            I am saying, as I often do, that it’s rarely a simple matter of 100% right or wrong, and that, as a matter of simple fairness, we should judge the actions of everyone involved.

            Often the fault is 75/25, 60/40, whatever. Real life is messy and doesn’t often neatly fit into your little mental categories. So to you, I suppose one is either a 1) Righteous Defender of Civil Rights, or 2) a “cop-sucker.” No complexity for the great Episiarch! Black or white only! No shades of gray allowed!

            The other problem I have with your simple-mindedness on this topic is that you ignore (I assume for ideological reasons) the simple steps which would eliminate a great deal of these situations. It’s weirdly contradictory. On the one hand, you say police are often ill-trained and/or sociopaths, and I agree. So then, what is to be done? One can talk about better training, and weakening police unions, and better accountability, and so on, and again, I agree that those things would be good.

            But you are only looking at one side of the situation. By ignoring what often starts these confrontations, you are in effect arguing for fewer fires by complaining only about faults in the fire department. They have faults, but if your goal is to reduce fires (and not just criticize the fire department), then you should be saying things like “don’t play with matches.” IOW, avoid starting fires in the first place.

            1. So, the best method for reducing rights violations is to allow the police to violate your rights.

              1. Well, no. Again, there is nuance here. Try to follow: police are often attacked during innocuous-seeming events: disturbance calls, traffic stops, etc. They know this, so they tend to be on the alert and ready to use force. So, one part of reducing rights violations is to reduce the number of incidents which lead to violations of rights. The other parts are, as I’ve said, better training, better rules, weaker police unions, etc.

                So, it’s stupid to be confrontational about the “violation of your rights” involved in stepping a few feet away and shutting up for a bit, because 1) that’s an extremely minor violation of your rights (if it’s a violation at all), and 2) standing up for that very minor right risks a more serious violation of your rights, e.g. getting tased and arrested.

                1. Try to follow: police are often attacked during innocuous-seeming events: disturbance calls, traffic stops, etc.

                  I’d like to see some evidence for this claim.

            2. Ummmm, Did this guy go out looking for the cops or did they show up in his front lawn and start harassing his guests? Please explain to me “what often starts these confrontations” because I’m not sure you know. According to the cop, this confrontation started because “There’s been drug activity, little girls and little guys in the car doing whatever”. Tell me, does that sound like probable cause? If this happened to your and your friends at your house, what would you do? Go inside, close the door and shut out the lights while your friends deal with the friendly officers?

            3. So, exactly as I said above, you blather for a while and then…blame the victim. As always. Yes, you are a truly sophisticated bootlicker: you can find any way possible to lick boot.

              But hey, keep blathering at us about how you’re not…right before you blame the victim. Patterns of behavior are a bitch, aren’t they?

              1. More polite, nuanced insight from Epi…. YAWN

                “You’re blaming the victim” is one of the dumber phrases around. Leftists misuse it all the time. Someone did something stupid and suffered as a direct result? Why, you are “blaming the victim” to point out the stupid part! You’re supposed to notice only the suffering at the end, not what led to it! Everyone knows that, by definition, victims are never to blame, in whole or even in part. If something bad happens, it’s always the fault of other people. Victims never make bad choices, and you’re just a meany to say so! You must be opposed to liberty!

                Yeah, right.

                Though, of course, if a cop did something stupid and suffered, like shoot himself in the leg, hey, wouldn’t it be “blaming the victim” to blame him in any way? I guess it would be OK to blame that victim.

                The difference between us is that I am not afraid to point to stupidity, regardless of who manifests it. I don’t care what color they are, or what their job is, or what their socio-economic status is. Stupid is stupid, and getting into confrontations with cops over trivial issues is stupid.

                1. So, you do the exact same thing again. You really have nothing else in your playbook, do you.

                  Though, of course, if a cop did something stupid and suffered, like shoot himself in the leg, hey, wouldn’t it be “blaming the victim” to blame him in any way? I guess it would be OK to blame that victim.

                  Are…are you functionally retarded? You actually think “moron cop shoots himself in the leg” is the same as “vicious cops beat person who questioned their potentially unlawful orders”?

                  You keep blathering about nuance, yet you are so lacking in nuance that you actually made that analogy. You might want to stop digging that hole, it’s already way over your head. But that might be a little too nuanced for you to see.

                  1. Epi went full retard. Huh.

        2. I really don’t get the attitude that one should be a pain in the ass to people with guns and authority, and then expect everything to come out roses.

          Yeah, it’s crazy to expect police officers to follow the law. They just can’t help themselves.

          1. You really don’t get the attitude that people can justifiably refuse to comply with unlawful orders, and should not expect to be physically assaulted for declining to do something that a cop has no authority to order them to do?

    2. It depends on the state, city, county and all. But, I’m fairly sure that a Taser isn’t supposed to be used for compliance only. If they are using it in that manner they will eventually have some major issues as some people who are tasered suffer serious injuries or die.

      1. First you take away their cattle prods and now you’re going to take away their tasers? Why do you hate our brave heroes?

    3. It depends on the state, city, county and all. But, I’m fairly sure that a Taser isn’t supposed to be used for compliance only. If they are using it in that manner they will eventually have some major issues as some people who are tasered suffer serious injuries or die.

      1. The cops consider that to be a feature, not a bug.

    4. Are we supposed to comply with any officer order? For instance, there’s reasonable evidence that Officer Dufus was engaged or preparing to engage in sexual assault of Miller, and Miller was only trying to protect himself.

      1. If he closes his eyes it’s not gay.

      2. No, I wouldn’t say with any order, but it’s only sensible to avoid confrontation over an innocuous order like “Step away.”

        1. And that’s how freedom dies, one sensible response to overbearing authority at a time.

          1. Are you serious? “Overbearing authority?” On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being absolute tyranny, what is a cop telling someone to “step away”? .01? .001? I’ve been treated worse by city clerks.

        2. I almost agree with you. But, he was in his own front yard wasn’t he? “Step away” is pretty innocuous if I’m down on the street corner. It would seem pretty menacing if I where standing in my own yard.

          1. I wouldn’t say “menacing.” Perhaps a little rude, but that’s about it. When cops are dealing with any kind of incident, they don’t want third parties interfering or even standing near them. That’s understandable, for reasons I should not have to explain. Doctors and nurses are the same way. It’s hardly a measurable loss of freedom for the people asked to move.

            1. The police aren’t menacing? Are you insane?

              1. I meant that a cop saying “Step away” is not “menacing.” Now, it is something to take seriously, which is my point, but it’s not “suggesting the presence of danger; threatening” beyond the fact that it’s an order from a cop.

            2. I guess the menacing part doesn’t start till the Taser comes out in your world huh?

            3. It’s hardly a measurable loss of freedom for the people asked to move.

              By whose measure, bootlicker? Because yours doesn’t count for shit.

        3. n over an innocuous order like “Step away.”

          Like ordering the ambulance crew to ‘step away’ from the guy bleeding out that the cops just shot?

          1. That would depend. Are you referring to a specific incident? I can imagine some in which it would be a reasonable request, and some in which it would not be.

            1. PapayaSF you are wasting a lot of good advice and sound logic here.

              If these people think that going all Snadra Bland everytime you are in contact with a cop is a good move you aren’t likely to convince them here on the internets.

              They just want to get their tough guy “why, I would have told that cop what he could do with his unlawful order” internet junior lawyer boner on.

              1. Wow, you bootlickers are astoundingly stupid, but that’s to be expected. There is “deliberately antagonize a cop unnecessarily” and “the cop is ordering me to do things he/she has no right to order me to do while on my property”.

                If you can’t tell the difference between the two, you have serious fucking problems. Apparently, you have serious fucking problems.

                1. “the cop is ordering me to do things he/she has no right to order me to do while on my property”

                  I am willing to be convinced otherwise with a citation, but I believe this is incorrect as a matter of law. A cop can’t stand on your lawn and order you to make a sandwich, but I am pretty sure he can order you to step away and not interfere while he talks to someone else.

                  1. No he fucking cannot. Without a warrant and/or an imminent crime, you can tell him to get off your property and stop harassing your guests. In the video the cops admit they have no imminent crime, and they sure as hell don’t have a warrant.

                    Of course, it’s obsequious bootlickers like you who defer to their every action and actually believe that you are supposed to that has taught them that they can get away with shit like this…because you’ll let them.

                    1. Without a warrant and/or an imminent crime, you can tell him to get off your property and stop harassing your guests. In the video the cops admit they have no imminent crime, and they sure as hell don’t have a warrant.

                      Tut tut, the police were ‘conducting an investigation’ into possible whatever, so of course they can just loiter on your property and harass your guests until they decide their investigation has been completed.

                2. Oh Epi your property isn’t a court of law and the guy was seriously ourgunned.

                  What he should have done, and what you would have done I’m sure, is go inside and come back out armed to the teeth and go all Rambo on that cop for abusing your rights as a citizen.

                  See Epi I’m not saying the cop is right, he isn’t, I;m simply saying that the smart thing to do in that instance would be to take a couple of steps back like the cop said and then go the the ciy offices in the morning and start rasing hell.

                  If you can’t see that then the problem is yours not mine.

                  1. Oh, I can see it just fine. The fact is, you have every right to ask the officer to leave your property if they don’t have a warrant or probable cause, and they know it. If you can’t even summon up the courage to actually assert your rights, well, enjoy your miserable life. Because frankly, if an officer is sociopathic enough to beat you for merely politely questioning them, you groveling for them isn’t going to save you if they decide a beating is what they want to give.

                    1. I see you have eased your stance some. That’s good because now you say “you can ASK the officer to leave your property.

                      Thats a few steps back from ” Git off my lawn copper you don’t have the right……”

                      No we agree they don’t have the right. I;m just saying they do have the power and it’s smartest not to pick a fight against your enemie’s high ground.

    5. Thete is nothing in the Texas penal code which says you can’t stand quietly near an investigating cop.

  13. He’s black, which all cops know means he has superhuman powers when it comes to resisting arrest.

    1. He may also have been on the demon weed which we all know makes them impervious to pain and capable of hypnotism.

      Frankly the cop should be commended for not calling in an airstrike.

    2. “He’s black”

      So is the female officer.

  14. Gestapo cops on film torturing politicians at their homes is a good thing. That and losing their seats to libertarians provide good motives for politicians to repeal dumb laws that attract bribe-seeking bullies with government guns.

  15. Policing is a house of fucking horrors, man.

  16. Jeebus, Reason is really good at finding cases like this to trumpet as “police brutality” while ignoring the stupid actions of the civilians which led directly to the incident.

    So a guy doesn’t comply with a reasonable request to step away, struggles when they grab him, doesn’t put his hands behind his back when ordered to, and gets tased. Now everyone can argue about the appropriateness of this use of a taser, use their confirmation bias to file this under “Yet more police brutality,” and call anyone who disagrees a “cop-sucker.” Yeah, whatever.

    Meanwhile, the country continues to go bankrupt, continues to import welfare cases and outright criminals, and a dangerously large proportion of the electorate thinks the answer to our problems lies in more socialism. And I’m supposed to be upset that a confrontational asshole got tased? OK, confrontational asshole, I don’t think you should have been tased. You poor baby, your rights were violated! But you know the easiest way to avoid being tased? Don’t be a confrontational asshole to people with tasers.

    1. “Don’t be a confrontational asshole to people with tasers.”

      In other words, piss your humanity down the drain.

      1. My humanity does not rest on being confrontational with police.

        1. Fine, your humanity rests on being bent over a barrel at the whim of a fucking cognition-challenged moron with membership in America’s ultimate Bully club. Fantastic set of balls you have swinging between your inner thighs, awesome humanity man. Fuck you, Papaya, for several seconds by angry wolves bent on making papaya cubs.

          1. Cripes, on a rare instance when you’re not filling a thread with ravings, you’re going to call me names.

            No, there is some nuance here that you are missing. Being asked to step away and be quiet for a moment is not that same thing as “being bent over a barrel at a whim.” Does nobody around here have any sense of proportion?

            1. Being asked to step away and be quiet for a moment is not that same thing as “being bent over a barrel at a whim.”

              Tell us again how Jonathan Miller wasn’t bent over a barrel on a whim, Papaya.

          2. Explain to me the purpose of being confrontational after the officer tells you to back off?

    2. Man you are good at turning this around.

      Why should he have complied with an order the cop had no authority to issue, on his own property?

      There was no indication of a crime, only a cop checking out something he though was suspicious.

      There was no crime at all.

      The request was, on its face, unreasonable.

      1. Actually, I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that yes, while on duty, a cop does have the authority to tell you to step away, even if the cop is on your property. E.g., if there’s a domestic violence call, and the cop shows up and finds the couple standing on the front lawn, he can lawfully and reasonably tell the two to step away from each other. And if the mother-in-law shows up, he can lawfully and reasonably ask her to step away and be quiet.

        It doesn’t matter whether there was a crime or not, because it’s a lawful and reasonable investigation to determine if there is a crime. Similarly, it doesn’t matter whether the person in the emergency room really is sick or not: it’s still reasonable for the doctors and nurses to tell family members to step away while they find out.

        1. “It doesn’t matter whether there was a crime or not”

          You are correct, your are not lawyer. Detention and arrest are predicated on having probable cause that a crime was committed. In the case of a domestic violence, the phone call reporting it would be the probable cause. In this case the officer stated “There’s been drug activity, little girls and little guys in the car doing whatever“. That does not sound like I reaches the level of a suspected crime to me. That’s exactly what a fishing expedition sounds like.

          1. We are talking about something before detention and arrest. It’s a situation based more on basic manners and common sense.

            If a cop is investigating any situation, they don’t want outsiders interfering and standing too close to them. It’s not unreasonable for a cop to say “step away.” That’s not a detention or an arrest, it’s just a request from a cop. I’m saying it’s a good idea to assent to that request, whether or not it’s a fishing expedition, because stepping away a few feet and shutting up for a few minutes is the sensible thing to do under those circumstances.

            Obviously, there are circumstances in which one might want to refuse such a request, but it’s always a good idea to choose your battles wisely. This guy did not choose wisely.

            To point this out is not “bootlicking,” it’s just common sense. Don’t give cops a reason to arrest you, especially over trivial crap like “They’re asking questions of my friends and told me to step away.” That’s a stupid hill to die on.

            1. If a cop is investigating any situation, they don’t want outsiders interfering and standing too close to them.

              Tough shit. When certain legal prerequisites are met, cops can give orders. When those prerequisites aren’t met, they can make polite requests.

              When a polite request is turned down, that does not transform the request into an order that justifies aggression by the cop.

            2. We are talking about something before detention and arrest. It’s a situation based more on basic manners and common sense.

              You’re so close.

              Yes, the cop can make a polite request.

              But, and here’s the tricky part, if you decline a polite request, the cop is not supposed to assault you.

            3. “trivial crap”

              See that’s where you go way off the rails. This is not trivial. The police initiated contact for no reason whatsoever. Then needlessly escalated it to the point of a violent arrest when someone questioned them. The only difference between this and the Bland case is that they had a somewhat valid reason to initiate contact in the Bland case. It’s was a pretty trivial reason. But, it holds up in court. She also disrespected them and it ended in a violent arrest. Now she’s dead. Is that trivial? What does it take for this pattern of behavior to become non-trivial to you?

              We have the Bill of Rights for a reason. So the cops can’t harass and beat us for trivial crap to the point we all submit.

            4. Oh, I almost forgot. I can think of a few reason a cop might want you to ‘step away’ that aren’t reasonable. They do seem to be a pretty good way to minimize any video recorder that might be in the area though. It might not make it go away. But, without audio and with the wonderful quality of cell video at a distance. It might make all the difference in the world to the officer. That’s really what they mean by officer safety BTW. But, you go ahead and buy that reasonable distance line if you want.

            5. There is nothing in the Texas penal code which says you can’t stand quietly near an investigating cop.

          2. You’re wrong… The crime was interfering with an investigation and resisting arrest, which the idiot was tasered for. Done.
            The others who were being investigated for “drug activity, little girls and little guys in the car doing whatever” were never arrested and released. Any questions?

      2. “Why should he have complied with an order the cop had no authority to issue, on his own property?”

        Uuuh…to possibly save his own life ?

        A lawyer and a courtroom is the place to challenge the cop.

        Not at night in the middle of a “scene ” with a cop with his authority boner own.

        Common sense, it’s a thing.

        1. Submission, its a thing.

          If only those colonists had just paid the tax and turned over their guns . . . .

          If only those Jews had just gone quietly when they got the knock on the door at midnight . . . oh, wait, they did.

          1. If only those colonist had stood toe to toe with the British and George Washington had never made a strategic retreat in order to live and fight another day.

            This guy is a city councilman. That didn’t mean shit at night out by the street.

            A smart move would have been for him to pick his own hill to fight on and sone to city hall the next day and raised hell and called a press confrence. He is a city councilman and he would have brought attention to the matter.

            You sound like a really tough guy RC. Do you fight with the cops a lot ?

            1. Do you fight with the cops a lot ?

              Haven’t had one assault me for declining to comply with a request, so no.

              1. But you would, right ?

                No way you would let a cop get away with that, amiright ?

            2. The only one’s fighting were the cops.

    3. Also, stop wearing suggestive clothing if you don’t wanna get raped!

      1. No, not equivalent.

    4. Man, you really are one hell of a groveling bootlicker, aren’t you. I mean, we already knew that, but it’s good of you to make it so abundantly clear.

    5. Man, you really are one hell of a groveling bootlicker, aren’t you. I mean, we already knew that, but it’s good of you to make it so abundantly clear.

      1. I’m sorry that your pea-brain cannot stretch beyond name-calling to grasp the nuance I am trying to express.

        1. It’s funny how you project. You are the one incapable of seeing the difference between foolishly provoking a cop and not allowing a cop to unlawfully treat you in violation of your rights; to you, it’s all roll over and lick boot.

          You don’t have nuance, you authority fetishist moron. The sooner you learn that, the better.

          1. allowing a cop to unlawfully treat you in violation of your rights

            First, you haven’t shown that there was any anything “unlawful” or a “violation of rights” in being told to step away while the cop talks to someone else. “They’re my friends” and “This is my property” aren’t enough. I am pretty sure that the laws usually say something about “in the lawful conduct of their duties” blah blah, and questioning people, even your friends and on your property, counts as lawful, and is not a per se violation of rights.

            Second, even if that is a “violation of rights,” you are lumping “being asked to step away” into the same category as getting shot or having your property confiscated. Like many ideologues, you lose the nuance in your rush to cram reality into your pre-fabricated boxes.

            1. Your endless projection and complete lack of knowledge of what the cops are actually allowed to do under the law grows tiresome. Maybe you should query some of the actual lawyers here about how right your suppositions about what cops are allowed to do are. You might be in for a big surprise. Or not. Working off of incorrect information seems to be your thing.

            2. First, you haven’t shown that there was any anything “unlawful” or a “violation of rights” in being told to step away while the cop talks to someone else.

              Its “unlawful” in the sense that, in these circumstances, it was not an order the cop has any legal authority to give. Its not illegal for him to ask you, but you are not legally obligated to comply.

              What follows, when the cop treats it as if it were a legal order rather than a request, is the violation of rights.

              1. Its “unlawful” in the sense that, in these circumstances, it was not an order the cop has any legal authority to give. Its not illegal for him to ask you, but you are not legally obligated to comply.”

                You’re right. The second that happened the guy’s lawyer sould have jumped up and said ” I object”, or maybe his lawyer could have drawn his own gun and told the cop to drop his.

                There is a time and a place for all things. I , nor Papaya have defended the cops actions but all our detractors keep trying to act we suport police brutality. SMFH.

                I am against this as much as anyone here I just know that fighting on the ground is counter productive because then you lose the backing of the law. Or at least what little you had in the first place.

                1. Actually the law is on the side of the councilman. What you mean is that the system is corrupt and the people who run it will violate the law in order to impose their will.

    6. The graveyard you’re whistling past, Papaya, was the initial and wholly unnecessary escalation by the cop. No crime had taken place, yet the cop turned it into a crime scene requiring people be randomly assigned to arbitrary places not where they were already standing.

      The way these six cops act is like they’ve got gangland town full of hoodlums waving ak-47s around and engaging in thrill-seeker liquor store holdups with born-to-lose tattoos on their arms.

      If only everyone in the town would realize this view the police hold and start complying with every random order barked out on the street, no one would get tazed.

      1. You seem to be right that no crime had taken place, and I tend to agree that the cops escalated this unnecessarily. But the initial escalation was still someone refusing to obey a very minor and not unreasonable request.

        1. No, the initial escalation is the cops harassing people in the absence of a crime. Cop dick must taste like pumpkin pie they way you go at it.

        2. No, that was a response to the escalation of the cop, demanding someone move from where they were standing on their own property.

        3. I have a story about something VERY fucking minor that happened when I was a kid in high school, Papaya.

          I experienced a couple of punk ass fucks that were just mean violating walking helldogs every goddamn day in gym. Motherfuckers would slap, push, punch, insult, neck-lock, and generally act out the most moribund-inducing behavior on dudes that were generally interested in just getting through the day. Like, wake the fuck up, walk or bus to school, make it through several hours without dying or being injured or emotionally-violated through nuclear-grade insults, and get home. Every single fucking school day.

          However, this day in the very late 80’s on this tale illustrating how to handle VERY minor shit, Mr. Fucking McFucking Big Dick Black Ass decided to mess with yours truly. I call this fucking bully Mr. Fucking McFUcking Big Dick Black Ass because the insidious fuck would spend the entire gym period screaming about his 12 inch black cock and all the fucking black bitches he fucked and all the fucking shit and all. And so on. It wasn’t a pleasant erotic conversation about Mr. Fucking McFucking fucking sweet ebony vagina shared gently between the young men with eyes glazed over in delight. It was just like ear rape every fucking goddamn day. The dude was a real shit eater and big ass bitch that had zero problems hurting people.

          1. Don’t leave us hanging. What happened to Mr FMFBDBA?

          2. So, one day on that day was my day. After the fucker finished terrorizing all the others into practical submission he left the last complicated problem for the end. Me. So I accidentally dropped a quarter on the floor in the locker room and Mr. FMBDB grabbed my VERY minor object and sauntered away tossing his angry head in my direction.

            I wasn’t new to being fucked over by a bully. I had cleaned the clock of a gangster named Escobar in inner city Toledo a year earlier and many fights before and since taught me to fucking never tolerate the fucking VERY MINOR infringements or you are a bitch.

            So, I decided to deal with it. A few minutes later all of us young men were standing in front of two metal doors on a second floor gallery waiting for the bell to ring to eat lunch. I knew I had 5 minutes and I’m done with this goddamn bully.

            The fucker was leaning against a railing right in front of me talking to his dogs and I walked up to his motherfucking ass, picked that shit up, sat it on the railing and leaned his motherfucking ass back and told the punk I’d drop him on his goddamn head if he didn’t give my very MINOR object back to me. A quarter. A goddamn quarter.

            I wasn’t going to drop the fuck. I intended to send a message sent by laser pigeions into his fucking brain. DO NOT FUCKING MESS WITH ME YOU GODDAMN PUNK.

            I immediately received my quarter back and an apology. Never had a single issue with that dude ever again and no one got hurt.

            1. The problem with a police state is it makes itself entitled to fuck with us on the minor levels in the exact same fashion as shitty bullies start to needle us at the fringes to discover our weaknesses and then exploit them.

              Law enforcement in this country IS the ultimate bully club. It is the premiere fucking middle finger to individual rights that the motherfucking constitution was written to address and these violent maelstroms seek to widen the rights to build their bully empire every fucking year.

              Fuck the police. Period. The entire institution of policing is to mainstream law enforcement oppression through every means possible.

              1. Perfectly stated.

              2. Yeah. Damn, AC, that is dead on correct.

                1. Yes it that senario it was.

                  If only these guys were up against some other guys who didn’t have badges, guns, tasers radios for back up and a police union to get them off if the cops decided to say they feared for their lives and killed the guys .

                  Different senario.

              3. Nice story, and for the very decent LEOs I have known in life, I still agree with your conclusion 100%.

            2. That’s a great story Cyborg. ( I love your poetry prose by the way)

              Let me tell you one .

              I have a friend who is also my neighbor. We are roughly the same in age, hobbies, partying habits etc. etc. We are both avid saltwater fisherman and spend all our free time on the water and we pride ourselves on eating the freshest cheapest salwater foods available. If we don’t catch it we buy it directly from those who do. . He is a Yankee from the Baltimore area who has lived on the Gulf Coast now for 40 years and I have lived here all my life and grew up in this culture, he didn’t. .

              He has had his ass beat down by the local cops twice and once he spent a week in the hospital with a broken jaw. The difference in our experiences with local law enforcement is that he can’t control his inner East Coast Yankee mouth and I don’t have one of those. When I have contact with LE I am a smooth talking Texan who doesn’t wear a chip on his shoulder with a need to show those guys how tough I am. As a result I have no broken jaws and was once taken seriously when I complained to the mayor and COP when I complained about a newbie cop on the force.

              Police states are some thing I take seriously. Fighting them on an individual basis on their own territory, the streets, isn’t a smart or effective way to go about dismantling the police state. In fact fighting them on the street gives them bigger budgets and more sympathy.

        4. But the initial escalation was still someone refusing to obey a very minor and not unreasonable request.

          Not submitting is escalating.

          I think we can add that to “Not taking is giving”, etc.

        5. But the initial escalation was still someone refusing to obey a very minor and not unreasonable request.

          Refusal is not escalation.

        6. Your implication is that because a request comes out of a cop’s mouth it suddenly becomes a thing that must be obeyed, and that not to immediately honor said request is a legitimately provocative act.

          I am in agreement that in general courts are the right place to hash these issues out (though the probability of success is lower than it should be for a non-member of the regular court and police employee club), but your statement here exhibits the precise attitude that leaves abusive assholes with badges feeling justified to continue their abuse.

      2. A few weeks ago a cop on I 10 pulled a car over on a routine traffic stop. When he had talked to the driver for a minute and turned to walk back to his car the guy ( with no tattos that I saw in the pic) got out and blew the back of the cop’s head off with a shotgun blast to the back of the head.

        When a cop makes contact with you they never know who they are dealing with and their adrenaline is sky high.

        That’s why it is always smart to do what they say even if it seems unreasonable to you at the time. Roadside confrontations aren’t the correct venue to try and correct bad cop behavior.

        It’s not a matter of grovling bootlicker because you’re not going to win the roadside confrontation.

        Something something picking one’s battles.

        1. When a cop makes contact with you they never know who they are dealing with and their adrenaline is sky high.

          Two thoughts:

          (1) Then maybe they shouldn’t initiate potentially fatal encounters without a very good reason.

          (2) They own a big piece of responsibility for this state of affairs, with their current culture of dominate, intimidate, control.

          Here’s a little secret about human nature: You push people, they push back.

          1. Two thoughts:

            (1) Then maybe they shouldn’t initiate potentially fatal encounters without a very good reason.

            I agree. He was a cop. That was his job. Is a traffic violation reason enough to pull someone over ? That’s above my paygrade. I’m not justifying the cop’s decision I’m just pointing out why they are so paranoid when they pull someone over.

            (2) They own a big piece of responsibility for this state of affairs, with their current culture of dominate, intimidate, control.

            I agree.

            Here’s a little secret about human nature: You push people, they push back.

            You really consider that a secret ?

            Then let me tell you a similar secret?. There are ways to go about things that are smart and there are ways not so smart. Resisting arrest isn’t smart because you are never gonna out muscle the cops. Remember those badass bankrobbers in LA armed to the teeth ? They didn’t. Remember the Black Panthers in Philly who got a bomb dropped on them ? They didn’t either.

            A court of law is the only chance.

            1. Too bad the courts are corrupt too. Oh well.

      3. The way these six cops act is like they’ve got gangland town full of hoodlums waving ak-47s around and engaging in thrill-seeker liquor store holdups with born-to-lose tattoos on their arms.

        Now that sounds like a fun town! Where is it? Oh, they just acted like it was? Damn.

    7. What is stupid about refusing to step away from your friends, who have done nothing wrong, while standing in your own front yard?

      Its only stupid if you believe that no one should ever stand up to authority being abused. Doing so can certainly have bad consequences, but “stupid”? Not in the big picture.

      The problem, Papaya, is that your approach to this enables and justifies every ignorant, overbearing jackboot currently abusing his authority, and places all in the position of being their meek and subservient subjects.

      Fuck that.

      1. No, my approach does not do that. I am not at all arguing in favor of abuse of authority. If the goal is to reduce abuses by authorities, two approaches make sense. One involves training, accountability, and so on. That’s fine. But the other is to not give authorities excuses to abuse their authority. This is not an all-or-nothing rule: there are certainly cases when orders from cops should be disobeyed. But “Step away” is not an unreasonable request.

        And yes, it was entirely stupid to not step away in the circumstances shown. It doesn’t matter if he had done nothing wrong, was in his own yard, and if those were his friends, because the cops didn’t know any of those things. They get lied to a lot. They are suspicious by nature, and there is often violence at minor domestic disturbance calls, traffic stops, that sort of thing. So they tend to be on guard, and not want third parties standing too close while they figure out what’s going on.

        Remember, as I am often told, cops are often trigger-happy sociopaths. If a trigger-happy sociopath tells me to step away, I do that. (If they tell me to take off my clothes or hand over my wallet, that’s a different issue.)

        1. The problem is, looks like, the trigger happy sociopath may conclude you’re not complying enough.

          1. That indeed can be a problem, but it wasn’t the problem in this video.

            1. Are you kidding me?

              The guy was kneeling on the ground. Offering no resistance whatsoever.

              And they still tasered him. So, yeah, that is exactly the problem in this video.

              1. He was on his knees with his hands at his sides for long enough for the female to say “he’s gonna have to taser you, you’re not doing what you’re supposed…” before he was tasered. It was a solid 3 seconds, long enough to see clearly that he wasn’t resisting. But not resisting wasn’t enough, they wanted him following demands to the letter.

            2. Paps. Come on.

        2. No, my approach does not do that. I am not at all arguing in favor of abuse of authority. If the goal is to reduce abuses by authorities, two approaches make sense. One involves training, accountability, and so on. That’s fine. But the other is to not give authorities excuses to abuse their authority.

          Like dancing outside in a town in which whatever seems to go on, justifying a police investigation?

    8. Why should he let them grab him? Why should he put his hands behind his back when he isn’t doing anything wrong?

      Police are not some superior class of species, and unless you are committing a crime they have no authority over you, nor do you need to call them “sir” or “ma’am” or be anything but neutral to them until given a reason to behave otherwise.

      Not being confrontational to people with tasers is a GREAT idea, but it doesn’t mean that the people with tasers aren’t the ones responsible for using them.

    9. There is literally nothing that the police do that you won’t support, is there? You were probably all for Sheriff Joe’s goons throwing the puppy back into the burning house. You were, weren’t you?

      1. I see you are just as much into nuance as Episiarch. There are real incidents of police abuse, and important ones, and I have condemned them around here. E.g. no-knock raids where cops charge in with guns drawn, and the person in the house has no idea if these are cops or what. Or cases in which the police and/or their unions cover up clear misconduct. But this is clearly not in the same category.

        1. You don’t even have the slightest clue what nuance is, you fucking imbecile. Your position is the least nuanced thing being said in this entire thread, as it boils down to “always comply no matter what”.

          That isn’t nuance. That’s submission, and you apparently love it.

          1. What do you want him to say? That it’s best to wait and follow the cop home and get him to listen to reason just before he turns his front door key? I’d be saying that unless I thought there would be somewhat of a chance that a SWAT team would come by to visit. So…I won’t.

        2. No, you fool, this is in the same category. This is disgusting psychopaths in uniforms expecting their every whim to be obeyed, because they have a lifetime of brutalizing their inferiors and paying no price for it to tell them they can do whatever they want. And they can. And it’s your pussy bootlicking attitude that causes it. Fuck that shit and fuck the pigs.

          1. When’s the last time you fought the cops warty ?

            Tell us the story because I bet is would be a good one.

            1. Nobody fought the cops in this case. This has nothing to do with fighting the cops. Sounds like a red herring to me.

        3. How is it not in the same category?

          This is ridiculous. Worse than dunphy.

    10. The cops were the confrontational assholes in this case. But you knew that.

  17. This is very similar to the Eric Garner murder. Somebody has the nerve, the temerity, the absolute brass balls to ask a cop what they are doing, and wham, the cops bring the pain. Just like that.

    No one threatened them, no one attacked them, no one even raised their voice, but if you just try to have a civil conversation with a cop, you can expect to be face down in the dirt. And you should be grateful if you aren’t killed for your stupidity.

    1. Garner did not “ask a cop what he was doing.” Garner knew what they were going to do: arrest him. He didn’t want to be arrested, and resisted. Police handled it badly and over-reacted, he did not deserve to die, his “crime” was negligible, but again, it would not have happened if he hadn’t resisted arrest.

      1. STOP. RESISTING.

        You wanted to be a cop when you were younger, didn’t you. That explains a lot.

      2. Papaya, you’re right. I was thinking of another incident. The cops were there to arrest Garner.

        1. No, he’s not right. The cops were called about an altercation. When the cops came, the people involved in the altercation had left. Garner helped break up the fight and diffuse the situation. The cops had had previous run ins with Garner and decided to fuck with him instead of looking for the guys who were the reason for the call.

      3. Garner committed no crime when he was arrested. But you knew that.

  18. You have to wonder whether the councilman made a nuisance of himself after the Bland suicide, and if he was known to these cops.

    1. That is entirely possible.

    2. He was know to the cops. There is an exchange where one of the guys asked the female black cop something not clear on the audio.

      She was clear in here response, “yes I know who he is ”

      So, maybe that is why they were jacking with him.

      Even more reason not to give them an excuse to shoot you.

  19. We have here a conflict between what is almost certainly the law and what makes any frickin sense. Of course nobody should have to obey a random policeman’s orders when there’s obviously nothing going on except folks (probably not a coincidence that they’re black, but white folks get this shit too) hanging out.
    On the other hand, the official, legal answer is to obey instantly, then sue later.
    If you’re still alive.
    If you haven’t had MJ or worse planted.
    Or an ‘illegal’ gun planted.
    I don’t know what the hell to do in cases like this. Of course you shouldn’t have to OBEY. But the courts won’t support you if you don’t, and, if you happen to have a wonky ticker, the tasing might kill you.
    Add this to the kid being suspended for having a painting of a gun on his t-shirt and I swear the world’s gone mad. Or at least our little part of it.

    1. the official, legal answer is to obey instantly, then sue later

      And everybody is familiar with the countless stories of people suing the cops and having the police department have to fork over a bunch of money out of their operating budget or retirement accounts and all the cops involved getting fired and having their LEO credentials yanked. Most of these settlements are a result of the civilian review boards that keep the cops on a tight leash and don’t tolerate even a hint of police misconduct. The rest are the good work of the flying unicorn patrol and the time-travelling robot squad.

      1. I didn’t say that the suit would be successful. We know there’s a 90% chance it won’t be–after all, look at the ‘unbiased’ report that came out earlier today on the cop who got out of a car and shot a kid holding a nerf rifle (referred to elsewhere on this site).

        I’m just saying that’s what the ‘official’ answer is. It sucks. It sucks to be us.

        Fortunately, to cite another meme that’s often cited on this site, the chances of it happening to any of us are really quite small. Doesn’t make it any less disgusting, but I can take small comfort in that fact, I guess.

    2. I think it matters what the order is. If a cop tells you “step away,” meaning to move a few feet away, that hardly seems like a major violation of anyone’s rights.

      Certainly it seems stupid to get into a confrontation about it, because anyone with common sense knows that might lead to getting tased or arrested or shot.

      1. I think it matters what the order is.

        I do, too.

        If a cop tells you “step away,” meaning to move a few feet away, that hardly seems like a major violation of anyone’s rights

        So, we should just submit to minor violations of our rights? We shouldn’t even try to have a civil conversation with the cops about what is going on? Some cop says “Shut up and go stand over there” with absolutely zero justification, and I should just tug my forelock, say “yes, massa”, and submit?

        Fuck. That.

        1. I agree with you RC.

          The next time you get stopped by a cop and he tells you to do something that you know isnt right I hope you will bow up and set him straight.

          Send us pics and we will set up a memorial for you named The Once Great RC Dean who was a martyr for the cause.

          Or you could hire a lawyer and protect you rights that way. Neither is effecient but in one you are alive.

          I keep hearing a ot of people here talk shit about how they wouldn’t atand for a cop violating their rights. I guess they would ow up and kick cop ass.

          Pics or it didn’t happen..

  20. While it might be a good idea to keep your mouth shut and do as you’re told by any gang of armed thugs, the ones in uniform you might think would be a little more cautious about observing the law since they theoretically aren’t supposed to be a gang of armed thugs.

    Is it surprising that they would treat even a city councilman this way, somebody who arguably is at least as credible as the police when it comes to stating the facts as to what happened? I don’t think so, check the city budget to see how much revenue the police department contributes to the city and you’ll see why the city council is going to eat shit and say they like it when it comes to the cops. Because the police department runs the city, not the mayor or the council. Which is why the whole idea of body cams strikes me as a little naive – the cops would prefer you not to see them acting as thugs but they’re not going to stop being thugs just because their thuggery is more public. Because FYTW, what are you or anybody else going to do about it?

    1. I know this area very well and you hit the nail on the head. PV A&M is a HBC and a town called PV has grown up around it. Years ago it was located on the main highway between Houston and Austin and in the CB days was a known speed trap that supported the entire city government. There was one cop in particular who had the CB nickname of “Black Knight”. He was a huge black guy with a chip on his shoulder and a mission to fullfil. After some years a new highway was built and the Black Knight and PV was reigned in by The Texas Highway Dept. after years of too many complaints. I still owe a ticket to PV from 30 years but it was pre computer database so I blew it off.

      I can tell you for sure that this can’t be labeled a racist incident because PV is predominately black and is a minature Baltimore or other Democrat urban city.

  21. If the officer had tripped on the way back to his cruiser and broke his neck, I’d be having a hard time finding a downside to this story.

  22. WAR ON COPS!!!

  23. So is this shit for brains police department gonna higher the same turds who determined the (murderous) cops acted *appropriately* with Tamir Rice?

    1. This one won’t even lead to a grand jury investigation. Mark my words.

  24. its punk trigger happy pigs like this I just LOVE to hear about in the news getting clipped in the line of duty.

    http://www.CompletePrivacy.tk

  25. Council member Jonathan Miller needs to introduce a bill to reduce police funding by 70% and use they money they save to set up an independent board to review all police abuse allegations.

    If the police have time to waste rousting guys peacefully hanging out in a friends yard, then they don’t need that many officers.

  26. The black female cop proves once and for all that the only color they care about is BLUE. She could have deescalated the entire situation with a simple “He’s fine”.

  27. I think its a dangerous attitude to adopt that a citizen has to do whatever any cop tells them to do.

    They are supposed to uphold the LAW, not whatever whim comes into their head. They are supposed to have some evidence that a crime is being committed to be able to treat people as if they are committing a crime.

    And this whole “resisting arrest” and “impeding an officer” is just an excuse for them to be assholes. There was no reason whatsoever to taser this guy.

    The problem is with the police who when they roll up and find that nothing is really going on, cannot de-escalate themselves.

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