Donald Trump

Donald Trump? WTF? Democracy Can Be Rough.

Libertarians have long warned that democracy might not be all it's cracked up to be.

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Donald Trump is doing better and better in the polls. (Though one ought to apply the 8 percent "Deez Nuts" discount to his highest poll number, and assume that people are saying yes to Trump in polls for exactly the same reason they said yes to "Deez Nuts"—for the lulz.)

All the caveats apply: early polling is no solid predictor of future results. No one has actually voted for him yet. People have time to make up their minds as they become familiar with the actual politicians running and aren't just saying yes to the name they recognize.

But the more he exposes himself as ill-tempered, ignorant about public policy, bigotedly protectionist, viewing international relations as zero-sum games in which we must "win" while other losers lose, and with an over-the-map view of governing philosophy that seems as genuinely close to strongman-y nationalistic fascism as we've seen gain any apparent traction in a while (complete with being slow to condemn brownshirt violence by his fans), the more people seem to like the idea of him being president.

See two unsettling surveys of the reasoning behind supporting Trump for president from GQ and The Atlantic and find stews of rabid nationalism, mania, sheer fanboyishness, comedy, and a confused desire to see some kind of big change that they think will help them that they for some reason believe Trump will bring about.

It's possible, I think highly likely, that Trump's sheer classic unapologetic bossman alpha bluster is the bulk of his appeal, which doesn't make any of the more on-the-surface political reasons people dig him less alarming. (Trump opponents, you aren't going to beat him by pointing out he isn't "conservative." I'm not sure he ever said he was, and his fans don't care about that, because he is going to win and he'll make sure America wins and the losers are going to lose, and who wants to be a loser?)

Despite his huge apparent support, many who would not vote for him are quite sure that doing would be one of the stupidest things someone could do. 

How can so many people seem to want this guy to be president?

Well, because when it comes to political choice, people are often idiotic and irrational.

This is not necessarily a character flaw—as libertarian economist Bryan Caplan shows at length in his book The Myth of the Rational Voter, excerpted here in Reason in "The 4 Boneheaded Biases of Stupid Voters," especially when it comes to economics, most voters don't know much, know a lot that ain't so, and have zero incentive to learn. And if they are just living their own lives, none of that matters. It's only when they are given the power to select the people who make the policies that get imposed on all of us that it matters.

Voters are, in Caplan's term, not just rationally ignorant, a term that has leaked out to pretty widespread public awareness, roughly meaning that the benefits costs of becoming learned on economics and policy far outweigh the benefits to most normal working Americans.

They are actually rationally irrational, intentionally just plain bonkers in areas where being bonkers has emotional benefits and low to no real costs. For philosopher Michael Huemer expanding on the meaning and dangers of rational irrationality, go here

Telling a pollster you want Donald Trump to be president—or even voting for him—has such low to zero costs, and you don't know any better anyway, so his various anti-trade, zero-sum-game, let-government-take-what-it-wants-to-help-"businessmen"-like-him beliefs aren't bugs, but features: this guy has all the same vague economic (and other) prejudices I do, and is loud n' proud about them!

As Caplan summed up:

Do democracies use everything we know?  Do they constantly strive to learn more?  Do they at least avoid acting on sheer superstition?  I say the answer is no across the board.  When we actually measure voters' policy-relevant beliefs against reasonable proxies for the Truth, voters do poorly.  Democracy's defenders often insist that these errors will harmlessly balance out, but the facts of the matter is that voter errors are usually systematic.  Voters err alike…..

Regardless of ideology, for example, economists have a strong tendency to support free trade, oppose price controls, and favor more open immigration.  The main reason is that they actually know surprising, unpopular facts about trade and markets: Specialization and exchange enrich the world, even if one trading partner is better at everything…

I do think that democracies are very responsive to public opinion.  Given the facts about public opinion, however, responsiveness is greatly overrated.   When the public holds systematically biased beliefs, politicians who want to win have to pander to popular error.  And that's precisely what happens in every major election: Pandering.

….The fact that most people vote for X doesn't make X a good idea.  We also need to take a more favorable view of constitutional checks on democracy.  But above all, the evidence is a strong argument for relying less on government and more on markets.  

Jason Brennan, a libertarian philosopher at Brown   Georgetown University, has also delivered a lot of dark wisdom about the value of democracy in his great book The Ethics of Voting. (Despite this, he remains himself an advocate of a properly-approached democracy. He is not against voting, but against certain damaging types of voting.) While I have not seen him speak out on Trump specifically, many of the arguments in his book add up to the notion that someone who would want to vote for Trump really just should not vote, to be ethical.

As Brennan wrote, generically, about silly voters, they are "often ignorant or misinformed about the relevant facts or, worse, are simply irrational. Though they intend to promote the public good, they all too often lack sufficient evidence to justify the policies they advocate. When they do vote, I argue, they pollute democracy with their votes and make it more likely that we will have to suffer from bad governance."

Libertarians, who value the content of government over the methods of choosing leaders, have long been willing to barely even give two cheers for democracy as a method of selecting political leaders, or at the very least to consider the methods of political choice to be less vital than the actual content of governance, whether it respected citizens' rights and liberty.

For some of the reasons above, and many others, that can't be relied on to be the case. And even a written Constitution designed to limit government's ability to violate rights, as the past century of U.S. history at least shows, can't reliably do the job. Democracy is no guarantee of decent, liberty-respecting governance.

Absent someone as colorfully absurd as Trump, it's easy to forget this. The political beliefs and practices of nearly all the "respectable" candidates would be similarly absurd and damaging, by the way, and one hopes that elite Trumphate might be an opportunity to educate about that.

Trump's utter lack of judgment or apparent self-control, his willingness to play the absurdity as absurdity, the type of human judgment and wisdom he willingly projects, is what makes him a slightly different phenomenon than the average terrible politician.

You might think Trump would make a great president, in which case all the above is meaningless blather. And I should repeat, there is no moral crime in being dumb about economics and policy. But, as Brennan, himself an overall defender of democracy, argues at length in The Ethics of Voting, there might be a moral crime in letting that ignorance or irrationality harm others by voting for politicians or policies that will themselves harm others or the common good. People's ignorance or irrationality as a private indulgence is their business, and I'm sure they enjoy it. When democracy allows them to turn it into a weapon, that's a problem.

You might think, conversely, that it isn't relevant because, well, it just is absolutely impossible that a majority of even Republican primary voters could ever select Trump to be president. (Roughly, political wisdom based on experience and not current poll numbers says that the bizarrely outre election result rarely happens. History would indicate that a boring, "acceptable" choice like John Kasich is more likely to win the nomination than the heroically bizarre outlier Trump.)

But if you do agree with all the reasons that a President The Donald would be a bizarre, unthinkable disaster, and you look at the current poll numbers, you might start to wonder if the results of democracy, independent of the actual content of governance, is as unassailably wonderful as grade school civics indicates.

How can phenomenon like Trump happen, many previous admirers of democracy are now wondering? Because, as many libertarians have known all along, voting itself is by no means a guarantee of an acceptable or just or even sane political outcome.

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  1. Donald Trump is the president that all the dumbshit yokels deserve.

    /grabs Ruination and popcorn.

    1. Do yourself a favor and drop the Ruination for a nice BP Sculpin and I will agree with you.

      1. They don’t sell Sculpin at my local ghetto market. I’m not even sure how Ruination made it out here to South Central, BUT IT DID.

        1. C’mon, man, I can get both Sculpin and Ruination at my local liquor store and I live in the sticks.

          1. I’m in fucking Minneapolis and I can get it!

            Get your shit together Doyers.

            1. I can get it if I drive a few miles, but LA rush hour traffic, brah.

              1. You’re too lazy to go to a real liquor store and get some Cascade sour ale? You sicken me.

                1. I heard sours have to be brewed seperately from other beers (like another facility) because sour yeast is really aggressive.

                  1. I don’t know about sour aggressive yeast other than what your mom produces, but I had this last night. Quite good.

                    1. I don’t know about sour aggressive yeast other than what your mom produces, but I had this last night. Quite good.

                      I deserved that.

                    2. Everyone does. Also, try Cascade if you haven’t, their sour ales are great. Bourbonic Plague, Blueberry, The Vine, Tangerine Dream, all of them are good. And it appears they now have a Gose as well, which I will have to try.

                    3. Figures you’d pretend to drink that shit.

              2. Perhaps now we can all appriciate what t means to live in a food desert.

            2. He’s so out of it. I’ll slap him for you.

              1. I can’t believe you kooks are hating on Ruination.

                1. Stone tends towards overkill, grasshopper.

                  1. It’s an acquired taste.

                    Like your mom.

                    1. Well, she is very hoppy.

                    2. THIEF! WE HAVE A JOKE THIEF!

                    3. MINE HAD MORE NUANCE!

                    4. NUANCE IZ FER BUK LERNIM FAGZ!

                    5. No, YOU’RE a towel!

                    6. Just. Buy. Some. Sculpin.

                      OK?

                    7. I don’t take orders from Midwest maggots.

                    8. I got some Brooklyn Brown Ale. It’s delightful and mild. I’m sick of hopbomb assbeer.

                    9. I don’t take beer recommendations from somebody who uses the word “delightful”.

                    10. Maggot? Literally the nicest thing I’ve been called today. Thanks, man!

                    11. My life is one long running LotR script.

                    12. I believe I gave Los Doyers a Sculpin the last time he visited my residence. He wouldn’t know a good beer if it deep throated him.

                    13. Apparently not.

                    14. HE TOOK YER BEERZ!

                    15. Well the best IPA I’ve ever had to date was Pliny. So where does that put me on the beer knowledge list.

                    16. When it comes to doing hoppiness right, you pretty can’t beat Lagunitas for an actually moderate sized brewer. Hairy Eyeball, Little Sumpin’ Sumpin’, their limited edition Lucky 13, Maximus, Hop Stoopid, Brown Shugga, and Undercover Shutdown are all the shit.

                      Though their DayTime fractional IPA is one of the worst beers I’ve ever tasted, but then again, fractional IPAs are stupid. But I’ll forgive them one misstep.

                    17. Like you need a different beer for daytime.

                    18. Have you tried it? It was so bad I poured it into the sink after two sips (the second was just to make sure I wasn’t hallucinating). Luckily I had only bought one bottle to try it. Because the rest would have gone down the sink too. Absolutely dreadful.

                      Yet Hairy Eyeball is one of the best beers out there.

                    19. Yeah its quite shit. I’m not opposed to the idea of session/fractional IPAs but theirs is not good. Most of them aren’t. Turns out there is a reason for IPAs having a higher OG. Founders All Day IPA is one of the few I like, generally if you want something lighter its just better to stick to styles that were designed that way.

                    20. Then again, its hard to trust the taste of someone who wants passion fruit flavored shit. Berliner Weisses are already great, why ruin it with passion fruit?

                    21. Because that’s what your mom asked for? That and a hard spanking?

                      Also, it was actually quite good. Sours work well with fruit, unlike a lot of other beer. They didn’t overkill the passionfruit or anything.

                    22. Whatever floats your boat. You are the gayest monster since gay went to gaytown so you can be forgiven for your proclivities.

                    23. I was expecting some gnarly medical condition pic.

                    24. You can get a gnarly medical condition if you DON’T drink it. That’s how important it is.

                    25. LD, you obviously checked the score before you bought Pliny.

                    26. Is this whole comment thread a transcript of a Trump campaign speech? Kinda gives off that vibe.

                  2. Says the cosmoturd sours swiller.

                    1. Wasting your time man, I’m the only one here. You talking smack about IPA?

                    2. Session American Lager. It’s cheap; just like me.

        2. I’m going to go ahead and add to the dogpile and add that I can get 3 different kinds of Sculpin (regular, grapefruit, and habenero) in walking distance from me here in Houston. Get your shit together.

          Also, grapefruit sculpin is the first time I’ve had a beer that purported to have fruit flavoring that didn’t taste like shit. In fact its fucking fantastic. May be number one for floating the river in 104 degree heat.

          1. Do any of you schmucks actually live in the ghetto? Huh? Well? Thought so. Gangsters don’t drink IPAs.

            1. Nope. No ghetto, here.

              *sips IPA*

              1. Yeah but you have to deal with “Minnesota nice.” Fuck that.

                1. We gotta get you out here, kid. Clean lakes, tall, attractive blond people and lots of beer.

                  We’re not that nice, though. Kind of assholes, actually.

                  1. Attractive blondes with assholes? I’m sold.

                  2. We’re not that nice, though. Kind of assholes, actually.

                    I assumed this is what “Minnesota nice” meant, fake niceness.

                    1. No. It’s so real, it’ll blow your mind. People will invite you over for “supper”.

                    2. I hate real nice from strangers – creeps me out. That’s why I left the midwest (well, Buffalo – same thing).

                    3. is new england or the midwest worse?

                  3. And all the trees are the right height also ? Huh ?

                    Trees ? The right height ?

            2. I don’t get the IPA thing. I’m enjoying a nice Grolsch right now. I like lagers myself. The European ones. Murikans can not make lagers. It’s the only thing good that Eurotards do apparently, and if not, I say we nuke them from space if we ever learn to make good lager.

              IPAs, most of them suck, most of the time. I can occasionally drink one, but man, fucking bitter nasty taste, blech!

          2. You take an IPA and then think it’s not bitter enough so you add grapefruit? What the fuck? Why not just do straight shots of quinine at that point?

            1. It sounds awful, but it is one of those weird, happy combinations.

            2. I don’t even like grapefruit or grapefruit juice. Like Tundra said, they just did it right somehow. And it is probably less bitter, not more than regular Sculpin.

              It also comes in cans, so again, perfect for floating the river.

              1. It also comes in cans, so again, perfect for floating the river hiding from the wife.

                1. The only reason to hide it from my wife would be to make sure there is some left for me, but we can always buy more so not really an issue.

                  1. That’s one reason. The other is “How many beers have you had?” Crushed cans don’t clink in the garbage bag.

                    1. The only reason she would ask that question is to see if she if she needs to catch up.

                    2. You have the best wife, evah!

                    3. I give her mother and grandmother all the credit, they are excellent role models in drinking.

                    4. The only reason she would ask that question is to see if she if she needs to catch up.

                      Next you’ll be telling us she buys all the beer.

                  2. Not on Sunday mornings before kickoff though.

                    That requires serious planning ahead.

                    What true American lets the Texans kickoff without beer ?

                    1. For noon games? One who drank all his beer Saturday night. Fuck the blue laws.

                    2. Colorado got rid of dry Sundays years ago. I remember that shit, it sucked.

            3. grapefruit is sour, not bitter (they’re two of the only five things we can actually taste, so it’s kind of a meaningful distinction)

          3. Also, grapefruit sculpin is the first time I’ve had a beer that purported to have fruit flavoring that didn’t taste like shit.

            I’ve stated quite a few times that I don’t like beer — I don’t like carbonated beverages — but your comment reminded me of something my dad did to me. He knows I like red wine, and I’d been drinking merlots, so he decided to buy me a bottle of this.

            Ghastly. I wouldn’t even serve it to Tulpa or PB.

    2. I never thought I’d see another republican president in my lifetime (34-40 years remaining). I thought Hillary would walk into the WH bringing the senate with her, she’d appoint 2 or 3 supreme court justices and socialism would steam roll over the country, the end of capitalism.

      But no. Along comes Trump and he brings hope to saving capitalism. I never really liked the guy, didn’t dislike him. Never watched The Apprentice. Never paid any attention to him. But I swear he’s the last best hope for saving this country. I’ll bet he even brings a good percentage of democrats his way.

      The only way he loses is if republicans stay home.

        1. The handle really sells it

          1. Calid — I’ll bet that’s your stock response whenever you can’t refute someone’s argument. You’re either a coward, stupid or just lazy.

          2. Gilmore — No. My logic REALLY sells it.

            Have you got anything worth commenting on?

          3. And it is double posting as well, copy-paste trolling.

            1. Peter — Is your little pea-brain even capable of formulating a thought and presenting it to the readers? If you disagree with tell us why, if you can. Ha!

      1. Poe’s Law in action

    3. I never thought I’d see another republican president in my lifetime (34-40 years remaining). I thought Hillary would walk into the WH bringing the senate with her, she’d appoint 2 or 3 supreme court justices and socialism would steam roll over the country, the end of capitalism.

      But no. Along comes Trump and he brings hope to saving capitalism. I never really liked the guy, didn’t dislike him. Never watched The Apprentice. Never paid any attention to him. But I swear he’s the last best hope for saving this country. I’ll bet he even brings a good percentage of democrats his way.

      The only way he loses is if republicans stay home.

    4. “Donald Trump” is yokeltarian for “None Of The Above”. I’ve seen polls with a “Don’t Know” or “Not Sure” option, never seen one with an “I’m Not Sure Who I’d Vote For But It Sure As Hell Ain’t Any Of These Jackasses” option.

      1. Wow, this is frightening! It really DOES seem true now, here, early in the 21st century of supposedly “freedom-loving” America, we are flirting with populist fascism! Reason’s link is worth the read, see?

        https://tucker.liberty.me/trumpism-the-ideology/

        Then a link from that link is also worth the read?

        Trump loves eminent domain abuse to make himself rich with?
        http://www.nationalreview.com/node/265171/print

        I am getting ready to run and hide in my fallout shelter any day now?

    5. This is not an areas where Reason commenters shine. After months of picking Rand Paul to death over any possible perceived consistency, most of you attack Trump with more venom than I’ve ever seen reserved for Hillary Clinton. Calling Trump stupid and moronic. It might surprise you to know that it isn’t possible for him to accomplish what he has if he is stupid as most of you say. In fact, he has to be pretty god damned smart.

      I’m not sure that you people could ever be satisfied with any real liviing person as a candidate if they actually ran in the real world. The problem there is that we don’t elect hypothetical ideas as president. We elect people, and have only a finite group to select from.

      1. You should realize that the “He is rich, therefore he is smart” argument isn’t nearly as persuasive as you think it is.

        1. No, but his MBA from Wharton might bolster the argument.

        2. Hey Cloudbuster not just any schmuck can inherit a fortune and a real estate empire and turn it into a slightly smaller fortune & real estate empire! That takes brains.

  2. Well, because when it comes to political choice, people are often idiotic and irrational.

    So, Brian, who do YOU like for 2016?

  3. Why not Trump?

    Better him than Bush or Kasich.

    1. How about Carly? She has a vagina, you know.

      1. You don’t say? Tell me more about this….

        1. Her (supposed) vagina is described as follows:

          Where I’m pretty sure that her vagina SHOULD have been, I found nothing but a big, fat, giant, slimy HOLE, emitting a big, fat, giant, slimy sucking sound!

          If’n ye be men of great courage and valor, ye are free to double-check, but I don’t recommend it! I barely escaped with my life! Worst of all, I think I glimpsed a giant, loaded steel-spring BEAR TRAP down in there, with sharp, pointy teeth!

          I am most compelled, in the name of fair warning, to remind y’all, this most-moist, foul cave did, yea verily, remind me of the cave of Kyre Banog? Whereupon there are cast, upon the very living rock, mystic and alluring runes? They sing a siren song, beckoning you deeper within, but PLEASE, I beg of you, pay them no heed! They sing songs (if you listen VERY carefully) of wicked-spell-snatched, love-lorn men, allured into the snatching grasps of the Playboy Killer Bunny Waaabbbits!!! There is NO escape to be had, I’m a-tellin’ ya!!! Y’all will be WHIPPED OUT!!!

    2. http://dangerousminds.net/cont…..071515.jpg

      Substitute “you” for Trump.

    3. YEAHHHHHHHHHH FUCK COSMOS YEAHHHHHHHH FUCK BOOKS

      1. Yeah real scholars work their brains with squats.

      2. Yeah! Having a college “education” is a definite indication of intelligence! Just ask the guys over at Vox! Or Amanduh Marcotte! Look how many “book learned” people voted for Obama! A majority! If you haven’t paid tens of thousands of dollars to study The Vagina Monologues you are clearly an imbecile who hates books and knowledge itself!! Derpity, derp, derp.

        1. I know at least one person with a Master’s degree who I’m certain also has an IQ of less than 100. It just shows you what a handicap persistence and hard work can offset.

      1. WHYCOME AINT FAGGOTS BUILD WALL

        1. ‘Cause it’s totally impossible.

        2. ‘CUZ FAGGOTS R WUSSES!!!

      2. Will this yokel ever explain *why* he wants Trump? Other than “gurble garble it could be worse mutter mutter”

        1. FAGGOTS SHIT FUCK ANCHOR BABY MURDERER FUCK RAPE SHIT AMERICA

            1. *snaps fingers in Z shape*

              1. I’m just trying to figure out if you’re the one with the blond skunk streak or the other one.

                1. You know Warty’s just not agreeable enough to be the one with the streak.

                    1. Hah, those gals have taken trolling to a whole new level, kind of like The Donald.

    4. “Why not Trump?”

      RTFA

    1. But I thought no meant yes and yes meant anal?!

  4. People vote for whom they’re told they should. I haven’t been following but I assume Hannity and Limbaugh have been talking immigration doom lately. People voted for the blank slate we now have in office because they were variously told their hopes and desires were written in stone on him. Trump is a different phenomenon. He’s a one-hit wonder, but that hit is a bubblegum catchy tune people have stuck in their heads from continuous airplay.

    1. Who made you the official H&R analyst?

      1. No meant yes and Fist meant analyst.

        1. True story. Fist is the one who put the “anal” in “analyst”.

          1. THERE’S MORE TO THAT STORY.

            1. And I’ll bet you’ll be the first one to tell us.

              1. He’ll only tell it to his analrapist.

        2. Anal fisting is a helluva drug, er, so I hear.

  5. Trump’s polling well because he’s a demagogue who’s appealing to TEAM RED’s desire to irritate TEAM BLUE. Very few people will actually vote for him.

    1. Yeah, whatever………

  6. Trump’s a douchebag but he’s no worse than most of the other candidates, barring Paul, on both the Rep and the Dem sides. At least he’s honest about what he is rather than dancing around issues and saying only what he thinks people want to hear. I wouldn’t vote for him but, fuck it, we could do worse.

    1. Trump is literally advocating stripping millions of Americans of citizenship and deporting them. Being politically incorrect and anti-establishment doesn’t mean he isn’t worse than most of the field.

      Also, your assertion that he doesn’t say what people want to hear is completely inaccurate. He’s saying exactly what people want to hear, it’s just a different group than the people politicians usually pander to.

      1. Sorry I wasn’t outraged enough for you, guy. I’ll try to do better at the next two minutes hate.

        1. Disagreeing with your assertion that Trump is no worse than all the other candidates or that he doesn’t care what people want to here = enforcing two minutes hate?

          1. He’s against the team that Grinch doesn’t like and is therefore not so bad according to Grinch. DEEP THINKER

      2. WHAT!??!

        Hilary will start a war with Iran and Russia and the world will burn in nuclear fire killing billions. How can you be so callous over those billions dead by not calling her over trump the worse worst ever.

        Oh the humanity

        *dramatic faint*

      3. Trump is literally advocating stripping millions of Americans of citizenship and deporting them.

        You got a cite for that douchebag?

        Jesus, fucking christ, you people are hysterical to the point of self parody.

        1. Read it and weep douchebag. Note that, in contrast to what a lot of other Republicans have argued, he’s not arguing for an amendment to repeal the 14th to prevent future children of illegal immigrants from being born citizens. He’s explicitly arguing that he believes that already-born children of illegal immigrants are not citizens and thus not legally in the country. So yes, he is calling to strip millions of people of their citizenship, and his immigration proposal makes it clear that he favors mass deportation of those not legally present in the country.

          http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/19/…..index.html

          1. They never should have been granted citizenship in the first place.
            The 14th does not apply to them. Never has.

        2. Holy shit, you’re stupid, Zaytzev.

          1. I’m pretty sure that fact was established years ago.

      4. You mean illegals? Those aren’t citizens.

    2. The expression “fuck it” is normally used in impossible, futile situations when things can’t get much worse. That is: elections are mainly just inconsequential sideshows because elected officials actions are determined not by ideology, popularity, or foresight but by expediency, an all-powerful bureaucracy, and the inevitable consequences of a half century of dumb decisions.

  7. People’s ignorance or irrationality as a private indulgence is their business, and I’m sure they enjoy it. When democracy allows them to turn it into a weapon, that’s a problem.

    Uh, democracy always allows them to turn it into a weapon. It’s what people in the majority love about it. That’s the whole fucking point. That’s why you see constant urges to go *more* populist, to remove checks and constraints; because the more “pure” the democracy, the more power you have if you are in the 50.1%.

    Democracy is mob rule, flat out. There have been various attempts to curb that, like constitutions, electoral colleges, bicameral legislatures, etc, but at the end of the day, the mob gets what it wants.

    1. An Eye-talian using the word mob as a pejorative. Get a load of this guy.

    2. My turn to play “name that movie” with Episiarch: “Don’t take a prisoner in until you’ve put the mob down!”

      1. You know, late stage Scorcese is not my favorite thing. Basically most things after Casino.

        1. YOU GOOGLED IT YOU CHEATER.

    3. the more “pure” the democracy, the more power you have if you are in the 50.1%.

      But the 50.1% is not comprised of the same people from year to year. There’s an inherent check and balance on those in the majority when they have experience being in the minority and know they may return to that status in a short time.

      1. But we’ve seen that this isn’t actually what happens. How many times has a party gained the majority power and then started talking about mandates and basically acted like they think they’re going to hold that power forever? It happens *constantly*. Yet somehow midterm reversals and the like still surprise them.

        Because what you are describing is rational. And most people, especially ones that want get their power through mob voting, are often not rational. They get excited because they “won” and now they think they’ve won for all time, or because they think that they won because everyone is agreeing with them that they’ll never lose again, etc.

        Are mobs rational? Not at all. And democracy is, at the end of the day, a mob.

        1. And democracy is, at the end of the day, a mob.

          And that’s it’s best feature. Wait’ll you see it’s worst ones.

        2. Hard to argue with this…anytime some pol gets picked they suddenly have a “mandate” and I’ve been following elections since 1968.

          1. Let’s not forget when a team has a “mandate” they pass incredibly stupid shit. It never fails. The list is endless, from wage and price controls to Ocare.

      2. There’s an inherent check and balance on those in the majority when they have experience being in the minority and know they may return to that status in a short time.

        Actually, the more rational leader will say “Well, we’ve got the power for 2 years, let’s make use of it”.

        That’s why, despite the absolute imperative to fix Immigration, the Dems did shit about it when they ran the government after 2008. Instead they used their power to try and bring about a new entitlement in ACA.

      3. Not only not the same from year to year, not the same from issue to issue.

    4. agreed we absolutely don’t need some system to enforce things the majority wants; democracy in itself, like the electoral part, is kinda just formalizing “might makes right”

    5. Admit it, you stole that entire line of thinking from Mencken. And hey, if you’re gonna steal, steal from the best.

  8. I’d like to remind people that Barack Obama is president. RIGHT. NOW. It can’t get any worse than that.

    1. Well, it’s not likely to get worse, this time.

      1. Sanders would make Obama look downright moderate and competent in comparison. If Hillary folds, who knows?

        1. That’s one of the kickers: if you like Trump you’re completely uninformed and dumb (true). If you like Sanders, you’re a brilliant intellectual and understand the way the world should work.

          1. And never does.

        1. Sick burn, dude.

          Sick.

          1. Boom goes the dynamite.

            You mess with the bull, you get the horns.

        2. You’d vote for me and you know it.

          1. You win when people vote for you and they don’t know it.

          2. Right off the island, sure.

    2. You forget about the Bushpigs and the Iraq War, -8.9% GDP, trillion dollar deficits, NSA/TSA, No Child Left Behind, TARP, Medicare Welfare Part D, the $10,000 for each homebuyer gift card, and all the other crap from TEAM RED!

      But You’re TEAM RED!

      Of course you “forget”!

      1. This comment was for PLAYA! Mr. TEAM RED!

        (John’s half jack, extra chromo retard pal)

        1. That’s fascinating, Tulpy-Poo. Tell us more.

          1. Do you ever feel bad about this, Epi? I mean, I wouldn’t feel good about it if I won the 100 at the special olympics. This is no different…

            1. I donno, that tard powerlifter special olympian dude the media loves is a badass. Pretty unfair to him lump him in with Tulpa.

            2. Does this answer your question?

          2. I am not buying the theory that Buttplug is Tulpa. I still think it’s Weigel.

            1. It’d be pretty pathetic if Weigel actually cared that much to troll Reason’s comments to the extent Buttplug does. I’m not sure I buy the theory, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true.

              1. A while back some people said they had some strong clues that supposedly unveiled Buttplug as Weigel, and there’s some similarity in their styles. Buttplug sounds a bit like Dave Weigel the journalist getting a sociopathic delight in entering a party, screaming insults at everyone, and cannonballing into the hot tub. Maybe we are being subjected to Weigel’s id. The fact that Weigel is an ex-Reason writer seems like a big clue and would explain a lot. Their politics are also at least vaguely similar.

                Tulpa has an entirely different style. He likes to play devil’s advocate, and generally does so politely, and can raise valid points. Sometimes he takes it too far and becomes trollish and annoying, but even when he’s trying to provoke, he’s doing it in a more civilized way.

                On the other hand, Buttplug takes trollishness as a badge of honor, and so is far more annoying (which is his goal). Buttplug is not into debating or learning or laying some sort of Socratic trap, he just comes here to taunt and troll.

                I would be utterly shocked if Buttplug and Tulpa were the same. To be able to create two distinct writer’s voices like that, and sustain them for years while talking about scores of different topics in hundreds of threads… wow. If so, that person is utterly wasting their writing talent here, and should be making big bucks in Hollywood.

                1. Could be multiple personality disorder…

                2. I definitely don’t think Buttplug is Tulpa. Not sure about Weigel. Did he post on Reason as Shrike while Weigel was still here?

        2. Can I subbush to your scribe newsletter?

      2. GWB was the second worst president in my lifetime. Obama is the worst.

        Remind me who the team player is again?

        1. You’re a proven fucking idiot by that very proclamation.

          1. Riiight. It doesn’t reflect poorly on you at all.

          2. As if turd’s opinion meant squat.

          3. Oh, and turd? Is Obo the magic worker now that the market’s in the tank?
            Just checking…

        2. For me it goes

          Obama
          GWB
          Carter
          Bush

          1. Kennedy (devil-may-care loose cannon nearly got us killed)
            Nixon
            Johnson
            Obama
            Carter (the nebbish on this list)

            The 3 in the middle were truly evil.

            1. I never thought of this before, but it looks like we caught a pretty good streak of Reagan, Bush, Clinton, & Bush. Meanwhile from Kennedy thru Carter the only reprieve, so to speak, was Ford.

        3. You weren’t around for Carter? God DAMN I’m old.

    3. Excuse me, it’s Block Insane Yomamma that is currently president.

    4. Yes it can, and Trumpism proves it so.

  9. Stick with democracy long enough and you’ll get Greece!

      1. You suck at food.

        Mmmm, souvlaki.

        See how it’s done?

        1. Is Ouzo considered a food?

          1. Metaxa or GTFO. Also, your guac recipe is unimpressive, Playa.

            1. I told you what I made in a hotel in Hawaii. Not my fucking recipe. Do you think I travel with serranos?

              That’s a slapping.

              1. You attempting guac at a hotel in Hawaii is also a slapping. So now I’m back down to one slap.

  10. I will say this. For all you people who hate the idea of any reverence for the office of president, Donald Trump holding it should pretty much obliterate that notion.

    1. The Reps and the Dems love that notion when their guy’s in office, of course.

    2. That’s why I like all of the pants shitting.

    3. I like the idea of “America’s Berlusconi”.

        1. Stunningly, Hagman was the second-best part of clicking that link.

          1. She has the assets you want in a first lady.

    4. He wouldn’t obliterate it any more than Obama has, or Hillary would.

      1. I’m certainly no fan of either of them, and for sure the former’s Chicago-style thuggery seems to be a new level, but come on.

        Yes, that’s the thrust of my argument: COME ON

        1. Thrust….come on…..WAIT A MINUTE

    5. Somehow Truman & Nixon managed not to obliterate the notion for long.

      1. Not even L. Johnson, & that’s saying a lot.

  11. Trump has one asset I admire. He is NOT politically correct and will tell you exactly what he thinks.

    Unfortunately, EVERYTHING he says is wrong.

    1. Unfortunately, EVERYTHING he says is wrong.

      Wrong in the sense of “I don’t agree with it because it’s fucking wrong”. Right in the sense of it seems to be working politically. Fuck the issues. Issues are way overrated in politics.

    2. The thing is, he is mostly NOT telling GOP voters what he thinks, he’s telling them what he thinks they want to hear. The fact that what they want to hear is not politically correct does not make him any more sincere.

      1. He’s not even doing that. He’s telling the media what will get the most outrage and some people confuse outrageous with honest

    3. As Carlin said about Clinton (bill) “at least he’s honest about being completely full of shit”

    4. You can’t deny, he’d give this country more actual change in his first fifteen minutes than the current empty suit.

    5. “Contrary to popular belief, pigs do not live in trees”. -Firesign Theater

  12. ‘bigotedly protectionist” For shame! A person running for the presidency of a country being prejudiced in favor of domestic interests.

    1. And there’s that economic ignorance that Brian was talking about! Bravo!

      1. Don’t kid yourself. He’s got plenty of ex-libertarian supporters who understand the economics just fine.

        It’s not economic ignorance, it’s an economic decision. Yes, it might cost something economically (granting that’s even true, which appears to be a matter of contention). But buying anything has a cost. And Trump is giving them something they want more than they want the economic gain. No different than deciding to buy anything else.

        1. He’s got plenty of ex-libertarian supporters who understand the economics just fine.

          What is this supposed to mean?

          1. I’d think that’s rather obvious – Episiarch referred to Trump’s supporters as “economically ignorant”, implying that anyone who doesn’t subscribe to his particular understanding of libertarian economics must be “ignorant”. I am simply pointing out that many of his supporters have themselves been libertarians at some point, and are quite familiar with the libertarian view of economics. Like most fanatics, you seem incapable of grasping that disagreement with your position could well be informed dissent, not ignorance.

  13. Donald Feels strongly.

  14. I just wish the stupid fucks would stop encouraging him. Jokes over already.

  15. If there were two or three candidates in the primaries he’d be losing badly with his low-20s numbers. But in a field of 18 he can look like the frontrunner despite being despised by the majority.

    1. That’s last weeks’ CW. Next you’re going to say Trump’s toast because he was mean to a girl reporter.

      1. You can’t win an election in a field of 3 or less with a hard cap at 25% of the vote. It’s not CW, it’s a mathematical certainty.

        1. a hard cap at 25% of the vote

          Last month’s CW. Already retracted by the WaPo reporter who came up with it.

        2. Why do you think he has a hard cap of 25%?

  16. For all its faults, democracy is the form of government most conducive to liberty. The stupid and superficial votes tend to cancel each other out, and the pathologies of dictatorship, oligarchy, or feudalism are far worse than those of democracy.

    1. The stupid and superficial votes tend to cancel each other out

      Unlike the intelligent and profound votes, of course.

    2. democracy is the form of government most conducive to liberty

      The Founding Fathers would smack you and send you to your room with no supper for that statement. It’s not just libertarians who “have long warned that democracy might not be all it’s cracked up to be.” A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.

      1. Democracy in a broad sense including representative democracy. I didn’t say it was perfect, just better than the alternatives.

        1. “Democracy is the worst form of government, saving all others.”- Winston Churchill

    3. The present state of Argentina says otherwise.

      1. Good point…

      2. They would have been better off with a dictatorship?

        1. Democracy LED to dictatorship, and now they have an elected tyranny.

  17. Trump in Mobile — An Appeal to Idiocracy.

  18. How can so many people seem to want this guy to be president?

    It’s their little way of sticking it to The Man.

  19. I’m independent/libertarian, and given my choice of all the candidates I’d pick Gary Johnson; or if only major party candidates are on the table, Rand Paul.

    That said, I’m leaning toward Trump for a pragmatic reason. Given that he will run as an independent if the GOP doesn’t nominate him, I expect that if that happens, he’ll spoil the GOP’s chances and cause the Democrat to win, exactly like Ross Perot did in ’92.

    On that assumption, the best hope now for a non-Democrat to be the next President is for Trump to get the nomination.

    (He also gained 20 points with me by saying he’d punch out any “Black Lives Matter” demonstrator who tries to interrupt one of his events!)

    1. That said, I’m leaning toward Trump for a pragmatic reason. Given that he will run as an independent if the GOP doesn’t nominate him, I expect that if that happens, he’ll spoil the GOP’s chances and cause the Democrat to win, exactly like Ross Perot did in ’92.

      On that assumption, the best hope now for a non-Democrat to be the next President is for Trump to get the nomination.

      Why would you want the Republicans to win, especially if they are retarded enough to nominate Trump? What’s pragmatic about that?

      1. Because all the Democrats (except probably Lincoln Chafee) are worse.

      2. Apatheist, do you want another 4-8 years of Democratic Supreme Court and other judicial appointments? After that, they’ll discover that the Constitution has really been the Communist Manifesto all along, and we just hadn’t read it correctly before.

        1. Stop giving them ideas!!!

    2. There’s no evidence Perot actually cost Bush the election. In any case, while Clinton sucked he wasn’t that terrible relative to other recent presidents. Bush was shit too (both of them).

      1. There’s no evidence Perot actually cost Bush the election

        One post that agrees with you.

        Warning: autostart video

        Trigger warning: MSNBC

      2. Bill Clinton didn’t get 50% of the vote either time.

  20. he is going to win and he’ll make sure America wins and the losers are going to lose, and who wants to be a loser?

    Bro, Trump is gonna take down the Mexicans and the chicks, and it’s going to be awesome. Bud Light Limes on me!

    1. Addidas track suits on you!

      1. Paul, bro, you, me some brew and an Entourage marathon, what do you think?

        1. I’ll bring the zucchinis and lube!

  21. THE LIBERTARIAN CASE FOR TRUMP!!!

    He will stop all the wars

    He will end the war on drugs

    He is pro gay marriage

    He will be transparent

    Note: I have no idea if he is any of those things are true but there is exactly the same evidence that he is those things that there was evidence that Obama was those things in 2008 and many Reason writers made that case back then.

    1. In this case many=a small minority, most of whom were contributors/non-editors and those who actually were have pretty much all left.

      1. Yeah, this claim gets tired about the tenth time it’s been debunked.
        Dunno if it was Corning, but some poster claimed Reason staffers were ‘enthusiastic’ about Obo. I remember nose-holding, pointing out the low bar Romney offered.

        1. There wasn’t even any nose-holding for vs. Romney, and barely any in the 2008 race that he cited.

        2. David Weigel was enthusiastic about Obo to the point he was nothing more then DNC plant.

          Don’t you recall “ratfucker” on JournoList?

          1. Weigel is a perfect example of the people who were kicked to the curb, just like I said.

            1. Reason couldn’t afford his dermatologist bills on their insurance plan.

            2. The Washington Post is the curb?

              Also does a Reason “curbing” include the lifetime title of “contributing editor”?

      2. Yeah, I see people claim all the time that Gillespie and Welch supported Obama in 08 when they were not among the group that said they’d vote for Obama. Even most of the ones who did hardly gave ringing endorsements of the guy

      3. Ron who is as senior as one gets (haha ron is old)
        Tim who is help found Hit and Run and came over to reason with Nick from Suck.
        David who was Reason’s lead writer for election coverage in 2008

        Anyway poking fun at reason for being soft on Obama in 2008 is great fun, accurate, and great sport. Quit being such a kill joy.

        I also see the same thing happening now with Robby, Scott and ENB….

        Only problem being (for them) is that there is no Obama for them to coddle and only left with Hilary McGerman who is looking more and more like she might end up in prison.

        Note: I honestly miss Tim and wish he was still writing for Reason. Especially considering only Old Nick is the only one dares to write about the economy now a days.

        1. Should also point out that Reason often does a series during election years making libertarian cases for candidates.

          They ran ones for Obama and Romney in 2012.

          https://reason.com/archives/201…..g-for-obam

          Ones for Trump and Biden would be fucking hilarious.

        2. How does it feel being delusional?

          1. How does that sand up your cunt feel?

            1. You are definitely the one with sand up your cunt.

  22. “Well, because when it comes to political choice, people are often idiotic and irrational.”

    Stop yer whinin’. If that was Rand Paul leading, you wouldn’t be complaining about the ignorance of voters, it would be all about the libertarian moment.

    ” there might be a moral crime in letting that ignorance or irrationality harm others by voting for politicians or policies that will themselves harm others or the common good.”

    OK, given the reality of climate change and the denial engaged by all candidates on the right, by your standard those who vote for them knowing what science tells us are guilty of moral crime. You said it. OK.

    1. How drunk are you already, joe? Please let it be a lot. Drunk angry midgets are hilarious. Look at Tyrion.

      1. Tyrion manages to be a badass, though. I don’t think Joe can do that.

      2. I bet joe knows where whores go.

    2. Hey, Jack! When’s the Rapture?

    3. “given the reality of climate change”

      No warming in 18+ years

      Reality burns

      Anyway is Hilary, Sanders, Biden or O’malley talking up climate change? Who is the new anointed one who will drain the seas and cool the earth?

    4. Joe, how’s it going?

      1. It’s amazing how a retard leftist can come out here and think they can avoid sounding totally retarded to their betters. Oh yeah, because they’re an idiot leftist, never mind.

    5. Given how totally the whole globull warming/climate change lie has been debunked for years now, I’m not sure if I should find it funny or sad whenever I see some fucking dumbass still talk about it as fact.

  23. Brian, if it hasn’t been said upthread, let me say it: excellent post. There’s something to be said about the veteran swinging dicks at Reason.

    Hats off to you.

    I especially liked this theme:
    “People’s ignorance or irrationality as a private indulgence is their business, and I’m sure they enjoy it. When democracy allows them to turn it into a weapon, that’s a problem.”

    NOT to belabor one of my hobby horses, but to belabor one of my hobby horses, we demand an ID to allow me to carry a weapon concealed, but we don’t want to demand an ID before letting someone commit one of the most potentially violent acts perpetrated in society: voting.

  24. I understand and pretty much agree that everything Trump says is dopey. However, is his level of dopey-iness any higher than say Obama’s or Hillary? While I have seen criticism of Obama and Hillary from Reason’s staff, I haven’t seen the level that Trump has attracted. Should I take this to mean that Reason’s staff believe that Clinton or Obama are more sensible and reasonable than Trump? While Trump is a buffoon, Sanders or Clinton are just as stupid. Yet has Matt or Nick and crew really pounded those two as badly as they have hammered Trump? No friggin way.

    I don’t want them to let up on Trump, just start showing the same type of derision and contempt for the equally contemptible Clinton, Obama, and Sanders.

    1. While I have seen criticism of Obama and Hillary from Reason’s staff, I haven’t seen the level that Trump has attracted.

      I fail to see how it is Doherty’s fault that you are blind.

      1. Ya know, I did miss today’s episode of “Hillary’s Lies”.
        What was it this time, that the secret emails had “secret” misspelled?

      2. Not with anywhere near the same level of passion or frequency. Am I wrong? If you say yes, you are either stupid or lying.

        1. Trump is getting heavy media everywhere, because he makes for good copy. It’s kind of a journalism thing.

        2. Am I wrong? If you say yes, you are either stupid or lying.

          Yes, you are either stupid or lying… or both!

          1. Bullshit. And your mom is Rosie O’Donnell, and she is a fat pig and a loser.

        3. One thing that is interesting is the nearly complete lack of coverage of the other republican candidates.

          Good covarge of Hilary makes sense…she is mostly alone and stuck in a huge scandal. The focus on Trump on the other hand is fucking annoying.

          “Over a year until the election so….What thing did Trump say today that I and the rest of MSM think is icky? Find out by reading this copy and pasted article I cobbled together”

          In fairness i do think Brian Doherty article is better then most i have seen here.

          Still on a day when Krugnuts says “what ails the world economy right now is that governments aren’t deep enough in debt.” in the NYTs while the global economy implodes all around us i really think it might be nice to read about something else here not involving Trump.

          1. Oh by the way the election from today forward is going to be about the economy and nothing else.

            So all of this is pretty much old news.

          2. “In fairness i do think Brian Doherty article is better then most i have seen here.”
            I’m sure your mom will be impressed.

            1. Your mom was impressed.

              1. Corning|8.21.15 @ 11:46PM|#
                “Your mom was impressed.”
                Oh, look! Asshole braggart!
                Hint: My mom’s dead.

                1. Jerk Store called and they are running out of you!!!

                  1. Corning|8.22.15 @ 12:42AM|#
                    “Jerk Store called and they are running out of you!!!”
                    You missed the asshole call, asshole.

          3. If the coverage here is so shitty why do you keep coming back to bitch about it?

            1. Didn’t you say the same thing last week?

              1. No? Sounds like you’ve been hearing it a lot. So why do you keep coming back?

                1. No not a lot just from you and I guess your other account.

                  Why are you up my ass again?

                  1. Everybody here is actually my sock, or maybe I’m the sock of someone else. It’s socks all the way down!

                    So why do you keep coming back?

                    1. You know if you are going to crawl all the way up there the least you could do is give a guy a reach around

                    2. What in the fuck is going on here?

                    3. “What in the fuck is going on here?”

                      Gay sex…and not the pretty kind you see in pornos.

          4. “One thing that is interesting is the nearly complete lack of coverage of the other republican candidates.”

            This is true.

            I counted 40+ articles about trump about 2 months ago.

            A glance at the latest pile in the article tag, is now over 70.

            To be fair, some of that is doubling up coverage of guest appearances, group-roundup articles, etc.

            But the fact is that no one has written shit about…say, Fiorina, or Walker, other than a small handful of times. count on one hand over the same period.

            I can imagine the excuse might be, “they haven’t provided any subject material” the way Trumpathon 2015 has. But a lot of it also just seems to be a willingness to pump the same “huffing and puffing’ Trump-exasperation-story over and over….because its the summer, no one is interested in trying to find any new coverage angle, and its easy.

            I think its not so much exclusively a Reason thing, as much as everyone in the media is doing it as well. Its the ‘story’ that keeps on giving. Its like a loose tooth they can’t help wiggling, or a scab they keep picking at.

            1. Fiorina seems like the most able and sane of the bunch.

              Yet, she can’t poll right or even get into debates.

              Wtf?

              1. MEDIA CONSPIRACY

                they know a female GOP candidate bleeds votes from the hildebeast, and want to passive-aggressive ignore her.

        4. “Am I wrong? If you say yes, you are either stupid or lying.”

          Yes, you’re wrong. And stupid. And lying.

          1. That’s the same witty retort the other asshole made. Good job.

    2. I don’t want them to let up on Trump, just start showing the same type of derision and contempt for the equally contemptible Clinton, Obama, and Sanders.

      WTFF?

      Of course I’d like to see the same type of derision and contempt for the more contemptible Bush, Kasich, Rubio, and Fiorina.

      1. Is Fiorina that contemptible?

        However, I would appreciate a daily feature with a picture of Bernie Sanders that says “it’s 2015 and an avowed socialist is a legitimate presidential candidate.” Then again, I just draw myself that message each morning with a crayon, so it works out

        1. Is Fiorina that contemptible?

          Good point. Probably not. Fiorina’s establishment push is likely just for token window dressing. (SEE! We got a woman!) If she actually caught on they’d probably sic their media minions all over her.

          1. Her track record at HP was apparently a disaster, but she seems to have great answers to every question she is asked, and that makes her better than almost everyone else.

            1. I think once she makes it to the big leagues and the spot light people will realize this is not the case.

              I watched the CSPAN “Voters First” Forum and she said, paraphrasing:

              You know, I’ve actually met leaders around the world unlike these other schmucks, including…. our allies Saudia Arabia, and they agree that ISIS sucks…

              As if the Saudi’s opinion on ISIS is at all credible.

              Here’s the video starting at around 1:43, you can judge for yourself if I’m paraphrasing inaccurately.

              1. As if the Saudi’s opinion on ISIS is at all credible.

                It’s pretty much bipartisan, establishment, State Department doctrine that the Saudi’s are our closest, or second closest ally in the ME. Carly’s just catering to the kingmakers.

            2. In Fiorina’s (partial) defense, I know from first-hand experience that HP was a disaster in progress before she took over.

      2. Rubio is worse than Clinton, Sanders, or Obama. How?

  25. To hell with you mammals. I aquired the proscribed maximum number of tasty underwater crustaceans. I shall now be feasting on grilled tail

    1. What is the bag (or creel) limit on those things anyway?

      1. Six per day per hunting creature

          1. I believe he’s Florida Lizard.

  26. By the way, Brian, it’s the Tea Party that has helped Trump surge in the polls. Monmouth Polling said this:

    ” He has also made an incredible surge among the Tea Party supporters ? flipping his decidedly net negative 20% to 55% rating with this group to a decidedly positive 56% favorable to 26% unfavorable rating now.
    “It looks like Tea Party voters are really responding to Trump’s aggressive illegal immigrant message,” said Murray.”

    Just a few years ago Reason was telling us how smart and important Tea Partiers were. What happened in just a few years? The became ignorant?

    1. “Just a few years ago Reason was telling us how smart and important Tea Partiers were. What happened in just a few years? The became ignorant?”

      Hey, Jack, picking cherries to prove you’re an asshole?

      1. I wonder if Corning and Joe realize how much alike they are? Reason is both a bastion of the tea party and lovers of Obama.

        1. “I wonder if Corning and Joe realize how much alike they are?”

          Reason (even senior staff!!) did defend the Tea Party when they were called rascists by pretty much everybody…

          Wait are you telling me Jackand Ace is fucking Joe? What the hell is he doing here? It isn’t even an election year.

          1. Wait are you telling me Jackand Ace is fucking Joe?

            Yes.

      2. They are just sending in the Berzerker first….the smart weapons come after he’s taken out an opposing platoon in a suicidal frenzy….

    2. If Trump becomes president, he’ll have exactly the same legitimacy as Chavez.

      1. Thus spake Joe from Boyle

    3. From Reason:

      “Here is my second impression of the Tea Party: we are lucky to have them. That’s because the tea partiers, who may not all agree on gay marriage or birthright citizenship, are united behind a couple of sound goals: curtailing the cost of government and refusing to live at the expense of future generations.”

      Article entitled “Tea Party and the value of craziness.”
      https://reason.com/archives/201…..e-value-of

      Gee, sounds like Trump. And given Tea Party support for Trump, still lucky to have them? No? Don’t value craziness anymore at Reason?

      1. “Here is my second impression of the Tea Party: we are lucky to have them. That’s because the tea partiers, who may not all agree on gay marriage or birthright citizenship, are united behind a couple of sound goals: curtailing the cost of government and refusing to live at the expense of future generations.”

        Gee, look there! Not a single word about immigration, like your link claims is the focus of the Tea Partiers.
        Hey, asshole! How much does picking cherries pay?

        1. You’re right. Not one word. Two. “Birthright citizenship.”

          Idiot.

          1. “Birthright citizenship.”
            OH, gee! Shame on me. Jack finds two words that mention “Birthright citizenship” and that’s supposed to support the claim that:
            “”It looks like Tea Party voters are really responding to Trump’s aggressive illegal immigrant
            message,” said Murray. ”
            And you throw “idiot” around?
            BTW, asshole, I’m still waiting:
            1) When is that study showing fracking causes earthquakes gonna gain some traction outside of lefty slimebags like you?
            2) When is the Rapture?

          2. Still waiting….

    4. “What happened in just a few years?”

      The DNC controlled IRS illegally shut the Tea Party down by order of Obama.

      1. No it didn’t.

        The Tea Party became infested by these anti-immigration assholes.

        1. “No it didn’t.”

          The Tea Party were always conservatives who held a few libertarian ideals close to my heart.

          Finding out that they like all conservatives might have a few anti-open boarders folks among them is not nor ever been a surprise. In fact it is a far smaller surprise then it is that socialist and big union guy Sanders is also anti-open boarders

          and yes the IRS did target and delayed and audited tea party organizations and they are still doing it. That is a verifiable fact.

          You are drunk and should go to bed

          Note: Are the democrats pro-open borders? I really don’t think they are. Why is this thing turning into everyone is an asshole but we only go after conservative assholes like what happened with Obama and Hilary on gay marriage?

          1. Cyto’s just mad cause he knows Lindsey can’t win, and no one else wants to nuke Iran.

            1. True enough, but Corning is pissed since no one wrote an article supporting his choice of nuke targets.

              1. What the flying fuck.

                Everyone knows I prefer conventional fire bombing of Washington DC.

          2. I’m not drunk you’re just a touchy asshole.

            The IRS did not ‘shut down’ the TP. Targetted audits, but no shut down.

            The TP had much better focus a few years ago. Successful movements attract parasites, and the anti-immigration dolts are those parasites.

            Are the democrats pro-open borders? I really don’t think they are.

            No kidding. Tell that to John.

            Why is this thing turning into everyone is an asshole but we only go after conservative assholes like what happened with Obama and Hilary on gay marriage?

            Oh piss off Reason is going after her all the time.

            1. “The IRS did not ‘shut down’ the TP. Targeted audits, but no shut down.”

              If you are applying for status to form your organization and the IRS does not process it and instead delays it for 5 years you cannot collect nor spend money during that time.

              You are shut down.

              What the fuck did you think the IRS was doing by targeting the Tea Party? Was it to just annoy them?

              No genius it was to shut them down, to stop them from participating and they succeeded in doing just that.

              1. That still didn’t shut down the TP. FreedomWorks still, ah, works as far as I know. It was very bad what the IRS did so why can’t you just stick that and not overextend?

          3. open boarders

            My favorite porn flick. Open Boarders 4 was the best in the series.

  27. Jason Brennan, a libertarian philosopher at Brown University, has also delivered a lot of dark wisdom about the value of democracy in his great book The Ethics of Voting. (Despite this, he remains himself an advocate of a properly-approached democracy. He is not against voting, but against certain damaging types of voting.

    … But, as Brennan, himself an overall defender of democracy

    Err… I think Brennan is a market anarchist. Not only that, he has a forthcoming book titled, “Against Democracy.” (well, that’s what wikipedia says; his own site says it’s called “Against Politics,” but that’s also the title of Anthony de Jasay’s opus, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the name was changed to Democracy)

    1. Brennan argues that voting is not a duty for most citizens ? in fact, he argues, many people owe it to the rest of us not to vote.

      Ah, but how to make abstaining worth it to them?

    2. Read page 7 and 8 of ETHICS OF VOTING. If he was being ironic, then he went over my head.

  28. TRUMP IS DESTINED TO BE THE ONE TRUE KING!!!!!!!

  29. Meh. Why is anyone paying attention to polls right now? They’re just as accurate as they would have been 3 years out from the election.

    1. They indicate an ugliness-stupidity and racism-that underlies America. They demonstrate that many conservatives really are as stupid and racist as liberals have portrayed them. A politically competent populist asshole could take advantage of this. Huckabee.

      1. Cyto, I know that brains freeze up there in Canada. But it’s very easy for us down here in sub tropical latitudes to figure out what the deal is with Trump.

        Trump has a pair of testicles between his legs. And it’s been so long since anyone here in the USA has seen a politician who will say something and not back down at all or apologize and turn into a tearful blob of jello, that they are desperate for it. They don’t even care what he’s saying, they just want someone to say something and not act like a giant fucking pussy the first time anyone challenges them.

        And, sigh, I don’t really know how you have the idea that every conservative down here in Murika are some type of xenophobe racists, but it’s just not based in fact. I know a lot of conservatives. Most of them are dumber than a box of shit on things like the drug war and the cops, but very few of them are racist even if they are not for mass immigration. I suppose I’m racist too because I am not for totally open borders. And geez, I’m even married to one of those dirty brown fureners. And god knows we have to keep Canadians out no matter if we have to nuke the entire planet.

        1. Guys, do remember that a key element of Canadian nationalism over the past couple decades is discussing how horrible and racist the U.S. is. Call it a shitty patriotic force of habit.

          1. Then why does Cyto worship the USA so much if it’s so bad? Some type of weird fetish, or what?

            Anyway, everyone knows that Canadians are just jealous cause they don’t have summer and they can’t fit all the nice things that Americans have into their tiny igloos.

            1. Then why does Cyto worship the USA so much if it’s so bad? Some type of weird fetish, or what?

              Because he’s been reading nothing but the Rand novels and the Objective Standard for the past couple years and its fucking with his programming.

              1. If that were true I wouldn’t be here numbnuts. Also, I’m reading Altered Carbon.

                1. Yes, we wouldn’t get to enjoy your brilliant arguments, such as ‘you’re stupid’, ‘I’m right because I can invent imaginary futures where I’m right’, and ‘I’m validated because I’m a narcissist.’

                  1. Are you sure you’re not projecting? Needz moar CULT.

        2. It’s one thing not to like totally open borders, another to root for a guy who thinks illegal immigrants are a bunch of rapists and murderers. Trump supporters are A-okay with racism.

          Rand has a pair of testicles and used them when fighting the NSA. I guess a lot of people prefer noise over action. Altogether = racism + general stupidity, just like I said.

          1. Well, Rand does have a pair, but he’s off the radar right now. So does Cruz. Only other person who has a pair is Carly and she’s a girl.

            But anyway, Trump is the only one with a pair who is getting his voice heard right now and that’s all that matters, right now. And right now doesn’t matter at all as far as the election is concerned, because it’s way too early.

            1. He’s only being heard because the idiots listen to the racist stupid things he says because they are racist and stupid.

        3. The guy I know who’s most racist & politically thoughtful doesn’t count anybody as conservative unless they’re also racist & white. I have another friend who’s black, conservative, & thinks blacks are inferior to whites, but he wouldn’t count as far as the 1st friend is concerned.

      2. “racism-that underlies America.”

        Please go fuck yourself.

        First Gilmore now you with the SJW horse shit.

        News flash it is easier for you, a Canadian, to move here and reside then it is for me to move and reside in Canada. Is all of Canada now some racist hell hole lynching all the foreign PoC from fir trees?

        1. Nah, it’s just easier talking about immigration when you’re in Canada. No one wants to move there.

          1. Vancouver is actually pretty nice….

            Like a clean Seattle but without all the Irish, Jews, Pollacks and Wops

            1. Sounds pretty nice. If there’s no Canadians also and it’s not too cold in the winter, I’d move there! (;

              1. Vancouver is rainy like Seattle so never really cold….and all the “Canadians” there are in fact Asian British Common Wealth Citizens from Hong Kong.

                1. And they gots the VC bud, dude!

                2. I’ve noticed a pretty large Asian population in Seattle also. Some of the hottest looking Asian women there that I have ever seen in my life. Not sure where they are from, but a friend told me a lot of them are from Thailand and Cambodia.

                  1. I was being sarcastic trying to get a rise from Cyto.

                    It is in fact Kunukistan central for lily white cheese head Canadians.

                    Though It is a pretty city with goodish weather.

                    I have been there like 3 times and never really noticed a huge Asian population I have noticed horrible driving on a massive scale and drunks walking in front of car then being super nice and apologetic about it and then apologizing for apologizing….just like Canadians.

                    1. Van sucks. Rain and high cost of living.

                    2. Here in Balmer, we have people who walk in front of cars, on purpose, not drunk, and don’t apologize. Not sure if they are looking for insurance settlements or just looking for attention. One time when I told someone I lived here, they ask me why you see so many people walking here who are limping, and I immediately told them, they were hit by a car, because I have to tell you, playing games in traffic here is suicidal, you will be hit, it’s just a matter of time.

                      When I’ve been walking in DC, Seattle, and Portland, it’s shocking to me how polite drivers are towards pedestrians.

                    3. You need to stop living in Baltimore.

                    4. I can’t stop living in Baltimore right now, I have a very lucrative career here and I’m living quite well.

                      Baltimore has sprawling ghettos, and some of the worst fucking drivers on the planet.

                      I’ve lived all over the USA and I’ve been all over the world.

                      Baltimore is one of the most beautiful cities I’ve ever seen, and the climate is nice if you don’t mind four seaons. Go spend a few days around the harbor and on the bay in some of our best spring and fall weather and tell me you don’t agree.

                      Not retiring here, but I’m good for now.

                  2. The hottest looking Asian women are in Hawaii. Fact.

                    1. I’m gonna bet you it’s actually in Asia. Number, dude!

                    2. Depends on if you like them tan and in tiny bikinis. Do you? DO YOU???

                    3. So, you’re telling me that there’s nowhere in Asia that has tan women in tiny bikinis?

                      Must not be as good as Brazil.

                    4. How dare you Bo me!

                      I’m just going by what I saw in Hawaii this week. It’s not my thing, but it damn well could be…

                    5. You realise that 90% of those tan, bikini-clad Asians are Japanese tourists, right? Especialy if you saw them there recently as that would have been during Obon holiday.

            2. But the Chinese are making a hellhole out of it Vancouver now and will spread out to destroy the rest of Canada, too, if they aren’t stopped. 😛

        2. You call me an “SJW” for calling the “Cuckservative”-label-promoters racist idiots?

          You’ve got to be kidding.

          Last week Frankie D’A was explaining how i’m a pussy hair from being a SoCon TEAM RED mouthbreather, because something something “Realism” sounds neocon to him or something.

          1. FTW? You must have really done something bad to be called an SJW. That’s worse than being called… well, anything.

          2. I will admit you are less off then Cytotoxic is. still I think the racist cattle calls are a bit much.

            It is a term that has been spread a bit thick as of late (not the least of which on libertarians) and I would rather push too hard against it then to little.

          3. Oh Jesus Christ, do we really have IR realism=neocon people here? That’s just moronic.

            Thinking the entire ‘cuckservative’ concept is retarded doesn’t make you a SJW. It makes you a moderately intelligent human being.

            1. I don’t even know what the fuck that means. I think I want to keep it that way.

              1. apparently its impolite of me to describe people who’s entire conception of politics seems to revolve around their loathing of Jews, Mexicans, and blacks as “racist”

                http://www.returnofkings.com/6…..kservative

                1. When your apparently serious political article specifically states that the reason why Detroit sucks is because of 80% black population, and that socialism magically works in white populations and not black ones, it’s safe to call it an awkward racist moment.

                  1. The truth about socialism and where it works is like this:

                    Socialism works best at the absolute smallest unit of society. That is, a family unit. It can still work well at the level of a small community. The more simple the demographics of that community, you know, the more they all agree on things and see things in the same way, the better it will work. Once you get to the level of a city, especially a large city, it starts to break down very quickly. In a very diverse country of 350 million people, it’s a complete non starter, a disaster.

                    So ‘that socialism magically works in white populations and not black ones’, I would say that is not true if all the society is either completely black or white, but even then it will quickly break down with population increase and any diversity at all. Demographics do count.

                    1. Hyperion: Excellent point about the scalability of socialism.

                    2. Socialism would work fine if the population could be reprogrammed.

            2. There is calling it retarded and then there is calling it racist.

              I disagree with both still the later is less accurate and less bullshit demonizing then the former.

              1. Calling it racist is completely accurate.

                The people using ‘cuckservative’ are paleo-cons who hate Jews, blacks, gays, foreigners, don’t like Israel, and think Putin is the bees knees because he hates the things they hate.

          4. Frankie D’A = John. They are both idiots who react the same way to people challenging their most sacred faiths. John is to Christianity as Frankie is to non-interventionism. Like other peacenazis, he has no idea what ‘neoconservatism’ is.

            1. As opposed to Cytotoxic, who is an idiot who reacts the same way to people challenging his most sacred faith (and also continues to not realize that ‘peacenazis’ continues to cement him as a shallow and clueless thinker as Richman). Lack of self-awareness or basic humility continues to render commentators clueless.

              1. who is an idiot who reacts the same way to people challenging his most sacred faith

                Enough projection already.

              2. You’ve never landed a solid hit on my arguments in regard to foreign policy, or much else. That’s not my fault stop whining about it.

        3. ” it is easier for you, a Canadian, to move here and reside then it is for me to move and reside in Canada. ”

          Citation needed.

          I should have used a better choice of words. “Underlies” should be replaced with “residual contamination” or something else.

          Here’s an idea Corning: stop conflating every fucking thing with SJW/political correctness. Tone down the butthurt too.

      3. You’ve got your born, bred and raised racists. Then you’ve got your “Fuckin’ call me racist for not agreeing with you? Well, bite me. I hate you, too” reactionary racists. And you’ve got your “You can’t understand cuz you’re the wrong color!” racists. A truly racist party would unite them.

    1. Biggie Smalls?

      I totally can’t take this story seriously now.

      1. It all ties in to Trump somehow. You’ll see.

        1. Everything ties into Trump in some way. Trump is the Illuminati King! Wait… I knew there was something about that hair… no human can have hair like that… he’s one of the lizards!

  30. I’m working on something big:

    The Hillary Clinton Story, starring Lena Dunham

    I just need a couple of investors to get it going.

    1. Was Dunham also supplying the ‘good’ terrorists in Libya with weapons and creating a humanitarian crisis that is playing out right now in Greece and Macedonia?

      There are some people who are deserving of a chipwooder, and then there are some people who are more deserving.

  31. I’ve spent less than a month in the US over the past 20 years, so only from my outsider, media informed perspective it appears Murika is filled with racists. A battle btw good and evil is on. How do you guys live among such awful humans? And Trump? Bigot Magnet! Maybe the loudest voices don’t represent reality. I dunno, so to be safe I feelz dat white racism is ripping da social fabric to pieces.

    1. America is totally racist. Nothing at all like Japan.

      1. Thank god. Yellow privilege sounds weird. I suppose I could go Lacheru Dorezaru, smear egg yolks on my face and elongate my torso, but don’t have any good ideas for making the back of my head flat.

        1. I live in Japan.

          My Pakistani neighbor (claims to) get pulled over by the cops all the time.

          Granted, he and his extended family have racked up 3 DUIs (incl. 2 accidents) in the last Calendar year so I don’t buy the whole “harassment” angle.

    2. I’m not sure where you live or have lived that is less racist than the USA, but I think this place does not exist in reality.

      I know lots of foreign nationals, and all of them openly admit that their home countries are far more racist than the USA.

      1. It was sarc. At least I hope so.

      2. BTW the racism in Korea, where I often visit, is the worst of any country I’ve been to. Infinitely worse than I remember the US being.

        1. I have a couple of good friends who are Korean. One of them told me that Koreans are the most racist people he’s ever seen.

          1. Who are they racists against? Japan? China? People they see in Hollywood movies?

            Honestly if it is the later I think there might be some solid basis for it.

            If the acting of Matt Damon was my only reference I would hate white people also.

            1. “Who are they racist against?’

              Not-Koreans.

              1. They need mass immigration.

              2. But especially Japan.

                You know what Koreans call Hiroshima and Nagasaki? A good start.

                1. I don’t think that is racism.

                  Or it is not any more racist then the French hating the English or the English hating Spaniards.

                  It is more culturalist or locationist.

                  Master Chiun might disagree.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP69wn8xtS4

                  Though he is right that “Woman should stay home and make babies. Preferably Man-child.”

        2. Australia is pretty bad.

  32. Trump opponents, you aren’t going to beat him by pointing out he isn’t “conservative.” I’m not sure he ever said he was, and his fans don’t care about that, because he is going to win and he’ll make sure America wins and the losers are going to lose, and who wants to be a loser?

    It’s true that pointing out he’s not conservative won’t reduce his poll numbers, but you don’t have to reduce his poll numbers to beat Trump. The question is not whether the “he isn’t conservative” message bothers a random sample of people called up on the phone, but whether it bothers the sort of people who go out in winter weather on a weekday to spend a couple hours at Iowa precinct caucuses.

    And the reason that’s important is because if Trump loses in the Iowa caucuses he’s no longer a winner, but a loser, and who wants to be a loser? You can imagine the immediate social media GIFs right now — “IOWA TO TRUMP: YOU’RE FIRED”.

    1. Trump is popular right now because of the brass ballz factor. People are getting really tired of politicians who turn into quivering blobs of shit if anyone calls them a racist or sexist, or whatever. I’m just as sick of that shit as anyone else, only unlike most of the moron electorate, I can think and am not fooled by a phony candidate.

      1. Exactly that. And the way to beat him is to get a pair of balls yourself not get all whinny butt hurt and start insulting his supporters.

    2. There’s also the point that Trump can’t lead with these numbers in a reduced field.

      1. But how do you know he won’t exceed those #s in a reduced field? He could be the 2nd or 3rd choice of many.

  33. After reading the comments tonight, I am reconsidering my stance on the 21st amendment.

    1. Or maybe you’re not taking advantage of it enough.

      1. I’m trying. I had to be dating with the wifey and she prefers I don’t drink too much. But after ‘dating’, I broken open the beer fridge. Still, when I first came here tonight, I was like WTF is going on here?

        1. Well, we started out talking about beer. I thought it was going pretty well.

          Then the Canadians and Minnesotans messed it up.

          1. Look at Playa Trumping it up.

            1. Somebody got to build a wall. It’s shovel ready jobs.

          2. Well fuck, the Canadians will just totally fuck shit up. You got to nip em it in the bud.

  34. It’s really not that hard to see why Trump is getting the numbers he is: He’s ball busting. People are tired with chumps like O’Malley backing off for saying ‘all lives matter’ or politicians who measure every single word. Trump is filling in that perception gap is all.

    It won’t last. Not saying half the stupid shit he’s saying. Then again, have you seen the stupid shit Obama has said? And there have been doozies.

    As for the Canadian piss fest up thread. From now on no discussion on Canada gets through without passing it with me first. As the self-proclaimed Jack of Canucks (stares down fellow Canadians) I will tell it like it is.

    Canadians do what all countries around the world do. They like to look at a heavily scrutinized and transparent country like the USA and point out all their blemishes (with moronic assertions like America is racist etc.) because it detracts from their own crap.

    Believe me, there are plenty of Canadians who don’t buy into it.

    1. Ugh. ‘Not saying half the stupid shit he says isn’t worthy of criticism’

    2. It’s really not that hard to see why Trump is getting the numbers he is: He’s ball busting

      What I’ve been saying. There’s only so much spineless blob of shit that anyone can take. And I think it’s way past that point.

      1. I know and agree.

  35. Hey, did ya’ll know that it’s like 2am EST and that you’re not actually supposed to be here? Everyone knows that H&R is totally dead by 10pm. Something weird is going on.

    1. I just came back from a night out with the boys. Will be turning in shortly.

      1. Wife went to bed after demanding all my attention all evening and now I’m on the loose.

      2. What Rufus is saying is that the Playboy channel just went hardcore at 2am, and he has some business to attend to.

        1. Playboy channel is for you tight ass Americans.

          We get Bleu Nuit.

          But I’m just too tired.

          1. Does that mean Blue Nutts in Canuckistanian?

            1. Nights.

              I hate going to bed late. Once I pass a certain time I can’t sleep and messes up the following day.

              1. Boa noite, amigo.

        2. HTC Vive is coming out around Thanksgiving. VR pr0n. I mean, I’m saying it’s possible, not that anyone will actually make it or try it or anything.

  36. I’m still trying to figure out why Trump is this big fuck up compared to the rest of the pols running. He’s over the top on immigration but a lot of the base of the Repub party supports that. The only other issue I have heard him talk about was abortion and he sounded reasonable on that and reforming the tax code which he also sounded reasonable on. What’s everyone’s bitch? Because he is blunt, non-pc, direct? Who fucking cares.

    1. He’s also for the war on drugs. That’s pretty much a non-starter with libertarians. Oh, and he’s also a totally fake candidate. Not sure what he’s up to, but it’s not running for president.

      1. Aren’t they all for the war on drugs? I’m trying to find the distinction between him and the other ones. Is he a fake candidate? That’s what I thought in the beginning but I’m not so sure anymore. I think he may have started out that way but how does his enormous ego let him pull out of the race at this point. I’m sure he sees himself within striking distance of the presidency and his narcissistic ass isn’t going to stop now.

      2. Trump is also a fascist prick who thinks Snowden is a traitor rather than a hero of liberty.

        His whole pitch in Mobile was for the audience to support Trump because fuhrerprinzip. Ford wants to move to Mexico. Trump is going impose a 35% tariff. Mexicans want to enter the US. Trump is going to build a wall. China and Japan want to export goods to the US. Trump says no. He commands that Americans are going to build television sets. Arabs want to charge Americans a billion dollars per day for oil. Trump is going to take that oil. Iranians want access to $150 billion in their bank accounts. Trump would never give them that money.

        At no time did he speak about the role of Congress in doing any of these things. Trump said that Congress is weak and ineffectual, so his will must prevail over it to make America great again.

        And, the military. Trump claims to be the strongest advocate of the US military. He claims that he will fire ‘realistic’ general staff, and make the US military supreme, presumably by the triumph of his will.

      3. Trump was totally against the WoDs 10 years ago. Who knows what the fuck he believes?
        Assume most of what he says is what he thinks voters want to hear.

      4. But almost everyone is to some degree for the war on drugs, so I discount for that. If it’s a policy people generally want to some degree, I expect politicians to say they’re going to give it to ’em good & hard, because anything less makes no sense in terms or represent’n. Even those who are for legal pot & tobacco generally support war on drugs.

    2. Not only is he insane on immigration, he basically wants to implement Smoot-Hawley 2.0.

  37. This is like the worst chatroom ever.

    1. Haha. What are we drinking tonight Paul?

  38. I think I’ll dig up this thread’s corpse and give it a good rogering.

    Numero uno, Trump is hardly the worst candidate. It’s just that he grates more on non-supporters than the other candidates do. We’ve had retards, egomaniacs and bullies in the White House before. Certain Presidents (like the one we have now) are all three.

    So let’s not let Trump be Exhibit A on the dumbness of the voters.

    Numero two-o, we need to look at potential Trump voters not as if they’re randomly going around being stupid, but as if they’re responding to something in the current situation which they don’t like. And there are plenty of things for a non-stupid person to be worried about, things which Trump speaks to.

    Immigration being a key issue, since the status quo basically means leaving the door open and a note saying “car keys on the table, food in the fridge, try not to get involved in crime or welfare, toodles.” There are plenty of great immigrants, but we’re incentivizing some of the not-so-good ones. And why not be more selective, picking immigrants who are most likely to help the economy without taking citizens’ jobs?

    The voters know the mainstream politicians are BSing them. They want assurance from politicians who take immigration seriously. Trump’s rhetoric is, I grant you, over the top, but this shows he isn’t simply coughing up talking points to be forgotten later – he says the kind of weird stuff people only say when they *mean* it.

  39. Well, because when it comes to political choice, people are often idiotic and irrational.

    It’s a team/fanboi thing in general.

  40. I see a lot of P.T. Barnum in Trump’s style and don’t buy it for a heartbeat. He knows what a lot of Americans want to hear – but more importantly, how they want to hear it.

    My guess is that, should he somehow manage to stay in the running, after too long he’s going to have to flesh out the rest of his platform in areas where there is no single viewpoint which will resound with a significant number of Americans. At that point he will lose direction and I expect he will really flounder.

    Hopefully the rest of the GOP field will have narrowed down and, in response to Trump’s bombast, have presented themselves both as less crazy (not too difficult) as well as closer to the wider GOP base (since up to that point they should have been competing against Trump for that base).

    Not that I have any great love for the Stupid party – simply would prefer a moderate R to anything the D-party has been putting forward so far.

    1. He isn’t PT Barnum. He is Tiberius Grachi. And just as Tiberius’s populist brow-beating of the upper classes ultimately ushered in Caesar, so Trump will usher in some even worse tyrant if his tactics work.

      1. The notable difference, though, is Gracchus was an actual elected official and even served in the military.

        Trump is just a candidate. He may talk populist but is this enough to usher in a worse kind of tyrant?

      2. No. Grachi had principles and ideals, albeit a bomb-thrower. Trump has none apart from personal aggrandizement. And he views every interaction as an opportunity to get the upper hand and tell people whatever he needs to to separate them from their money.

        He is far more Barnum.

    2. Trump has focused over the years on the value of his Brand in lieu of even the value of Real Property. His candidacy is an extension of that brand and is being operated as much by marketing principles as any political principles. As you allude to, his strength and weakness alike are his focus on one issue ?a focus on political market while the other candidate were building diversified products. Meanwhile, he’s offered a number of non-answers or conflicting answers on other topics that, coupled with his slogans and themes, allow supporters to invest him with their own ideas on what they think he believes (a good example is abortion ?he’s offered no real pro-life discussion besides his debate answer where he talked about meeting one kid who didn’t end getting aborted and was “terrific.” He never actually said his opinion on children who weren’t ?bermenschen; then his Planned Parenthood comments were just bizarre in terms of logic or basic information ?but none of that really matters, because there’s enough ‘space’ for supporters to interpret them)…. (cont.)

      1. …The caveat is the argument about his having a potential hard-cap of support. Part of that is ideological or in terms of agreement on immigration. Part of that is knowledge of his part comments or disagreement with his style. And part of that are those Republicans who want much more detail on policy in candidates (I personally get labelled a RINO for my wonkishness on comment threads by Trumpkins a few times per days anymore). There will come a point where the decision has to be made whether to spread his focus (and details) to other issues in order to get more support when the field narrows. In doing so, he gambles at getting enough of a plurality for victory at the cost of losing much of his current numbers if those other positions don’t match what his core supporters have constructed of the Candidate-Trump Brand. Particularly given that the support in ‘invisible’ in a fashion so far (relying on polls, comment threads, Twitter ?notice how his planned big rally last night in Alabama turned out about a quarter of the planned attendance), there are all sorts of questions about the true nature and numbers involved: is the Trump brand a bubble like many of the market phenomena that it follows after?… (cont…)

        1. …And if so, how much damage does that do to the campaign season before the bubble bursts ? it’s funny to see the sheer number of policy papers being released from GOP candidates while media outlets (including REASON) run stories touting “When will Republican candidates release any policy!?” because they’re only listening to what The Donald is shouting from his Golden Helicopter! (fin)

    3. “after too long he’s going to have to flesh out the rest of his platform ”

      Why does he have to do that ?

      Why can’t he just hopey changie right on in to the WH ?

      It worked for the current occupant, why does Trump have to lay out specifics like you say he must ?

  41. “People who assume Catholics obey w/o thinking should consider that it’s the thinking — 2,000 years of it — that leads to the obedience.” – Elizabeth Scalia

    1. Eddie, God love ya, but…..no. “2000 years of thinking” is like the 400 year old white man – ridiculous.

      Plus, if I could find a religion with people who “obey” LESS than RC’s, I’d have to search another galaxy.

      1. Dignity of the individual human person

        A human enactment in violation of natural law is no law at all

        Governments are established by the people and, in case of tyranny, can be overthrown by them

        Isn’t it amazing that Catholics came up with these propositions *without thinking.*

        1. Isn’t it amazing that religions co-opt what humans do and claim responsibility.
          Get on your horse, eddy, you’re going to have to run like hell to get in front of that parade!

          1. Jesus never existed!

            1. ‘S true, as far as anyone can show.

              1. You have more faith than I do.

                1. How stupid do you have to be to claim bleef in a sky daddy is less faith than looking at the evidence?
                  Well, folks, we have as an example of such stupidity Eddy the Bleever! For his next performance, he’ll explain how UP = DOWN!! Don’t miss it, folks!
                  Take a bow, Eddy! (and don’t fall off the stage)

                  1. Wow, I just have to wind you up and you perform.

                    1. “Wow, I just have to wind you up and you perform.”

                      Wow!
                      All you have to do is spread bleever bullshit to get called on it!
                      Some time back, someone who wasn’t watching claimed you always argued in good faith. I avoided pointing out that you become the bullshit artist when your simple-minded superstition is questioned; eddy the ignoramus shows up!.
                      It is possible that you are ignorant enough to bleeve the bullshit you use to support your stupidity. More likely, you are embarrassed by bleeving that shit, but can’t quite get away from it.
                      Regardless, your sleazy attempts at defending superstition only make you look like, well, a sleazy defender of superstition whose ethics should be embarrassing. To anyone with an IQ worth mentioning.

        2. It’s more amazing considering the role of the Catholic Church in supporting tyranny.

    2. [Assumes thinking without evidence of it]

  42. The pantsshitting over ebola was nothing compared to the pantssthitting over TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP.

    I’m about ready to drop my candidacy and support TRUMPTRUMPTRUMP just for the lulz*. Jesus Christ, people – get a grip.

    * for the mouthbreathers, I’m not voting for any of these assholes, including Trump

    1. I know. The last time we had a charismatic leader of a major industrial country who vilified certain races, expressed extreme nationalism and an aggressive military, it worked out so well.

      1. Exceptional trolling.

  43. Marines, ha! It was Airman and an OR guardsman…I’m doubly proud

    http://popularmilitary.com/u-s…..terrorist/

    1. As a former Marine myself I’m loving it that a couple American servicemen of no particular distinction (at least not in the way usually portrayed by the media or holywood) were enough to stop an armed terrorist.

      1. No shit. They did it while unarmed and managed to keep the terrorist alive.
        American cops are still just trying to process these facts…

    2. “At this time the motive for the attack is unknown. French anti-terrorism authorities are investigating.”

      A Moroccan Muslim exits the restroom, and a “machine gun” suddenly begins firing indiscriminately. Workplace violence? A robbery gone wrong? Or, just another case of guns mishaving?

      1. “One thousand pardons, sahib! My hands are wet from the bathroom and have slipped accidentally onto this pesky trigger ?why don’t these profiteering American* gunmakers build better safety mechanisms!?”

        (*American, Russian, generic Kalashnikov manufacturer in third-world country ? it’s all BOOSH’s fault…)

    3. The OR Guardsman was from my town. Which is not big. It is going completely apeshit. I can’t imaging what will happen when he comes home.

  44. Just to be different, I think our country’s problem is too little democracy, not too much. The way we get input from the public is set up to be uninformed, easily manipulated, and kept distant from actual governance. We need selection, not election: people randomly chosen, to be truly representative and reflect TWOTP, but full time so they can actually give the issues the consideration they deserve. We also need the equivalent of juries seeded throughout the federal bureaucracy.

    1. No. Just no. One of Canada’s huge advantages over America is that we have fewer elections and fewer elected position. This is especially true in the justice system where, in America, democratization of justice has led to a lot of populist idiocy.

  45. Is Reason suddenly discovering Hoppe?

  46. So… A political agenda that states that it doesn’t matter if whites are displaced, as long as future black and brown Americans are enjoying the benefits of limited government and free markets isn’t going over too well with the whites targeted for displacement.

    Now who could’ve seen that coming?

    1. No one’s being targeted for displacement you dipshit.

  47. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do…… ?????? http://www.online-jobs9.com

  48. Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump. Trump Trump, Trump Trump Trump. Trump Trump, Trump Trump Trump? Trump Trump?

    Trump Trump Trump Trump! Trump Trump Trump. Trump Trump! Trump!

    Trump Trump Trump? Trump?

    Trump!

    1. But Trump dissed war hero John McCain! Insinuated Megyn Kelly was riding the cotton pony! And Trump won’t pledge to support Bush when Bush gets the nomination he and his donors were promised!

      1. SIV

        That makes me almost want to vote for the guy

    2. Hot diggety dawg, ye Trumped us ALL!!!

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  50. [Libertarians] consider the methods of political choice to be less vital than the actual content of governance, whether it respected citizens’ rights and liberty.

    In other words, libertarians should just get their way because they’re the smartest and most bestest.

    I just skimmed the article, so perhaps it explains the superior alternative to democratic voting libertarians favor. None of the commenters seems willing to say.

    1. My God you people have managed to mKe tony sound reasonable.

      You pretty much nailed it Tony. Good job.

      1. The problem with any “method of political choice” is that the politically powerful award themselves privileges at the expense of the rest. In a majoritarian democracy, political power rests with the majority; to an idiot/sockpuppet like Tony, 50.1% voting to kill the other 49.9% is perfectly acceptable. Unrestrained majoritarian democracy is not materially better for the individual than monarchy, oligarchy, despotism, or most other “methods of political choice”. This is why we have restrained quasi-majoritarian democracy in this country; the “methods of political choice” are not (supposed to be) as important as the “actual content of governance”. One might only look at the extent to which the founders focused on the latter and how little attention (perhaps mistakenly) they gave to the former.

        Practically speaking, non-democracies are either subject to wild variations in quality (as in a monarchy) or severe insulation of the political class from the rest (as in an oligarchy). Democracy tends towards stability and equality in ways that non-democratic systems don’t; the problem for libertarians is that the purest form of equality yet realized on Earth is universal oppression.

        To say that a broad concept like “democracy” is deeply flawed is not to posit the existence or endorsement of alternatives. It is to serve as a reminder that there is no simple answer to life’s problems.

        1. To clarify the idiosyncratic use of terms, non-majoritarian democracy would basically be synonymous with anarcho-capitalism. Its “only” problem is that it cannot be realized.

          1. Someone came up with a cliche about the problem of democracy not being perfect a long time ago. If something doesn’t work then it’s not an answer.

        2. there is no simple answer to life’s problems

          Here’s a solution to all of life’s governmental problems:

          Don’t aggress against other people. Hurt other people who do.

          1. That’s a maxim, and a very good one, but it’s not a solution on the level I’m talking about. It works well when the vast majority of people adhere to it (more or less). It breaks down when sizable chunks of people believe “might makes right” instead.

          2. You know deep down this just doesn’t work, don’t you? What, your alternative to democracy is wagging your finger in the air? This is sad. You must know that.

            1. Tony|8.22.15 @ 10:37PM|#
              “You know deep down this just doesn’t work, don’t you? What, your alternative to democracy is wagging your finger in the air? This is sad. You must know that.”

              Tony favors guns always, so long as those with the guns favor what Tony does!
              Does ‘flaming asshole’ work here? Perhaps ‘miserable excuse for humanity’? I’m at a loss for the correct description.

        3. Note that democracy’s tendency toward equality is also its own undoing; democracy collapses into oligarchy or monarchy before it reaches the true equality of universal death.

  51. Most of us know that the reason why Reason writers are freaking out over Trump (you can feel the shakiness of their hands as they type “he won’t win”) is immigration. Pure and simple.

    No one’s gonna sign off on Trump’s “deport all anchor babies” proposal if and when he becomes president. Which won’t happen. Bernie Sanders and his many insane ideas will actually gain traction SOMEWHERE if he ascends to power.

    The GOP will get 35-40% of the nonwhite vote in some elections. Why aren’t their Latino voters flocking towards Cruz and Rubio?

    The truth is, the college immigrants activists you see on tv demanding legal status aren’t really the face of immigrants. Most immigrants live hard ass life working for other immigrants with no living wage, benefits or promotion in sight.

    When a candidate says “I’ll create and preserve jobs JUST for you, and stop work from going to China” it sounds sweet on their ears too. GOP has Trump, the dems have Sanders.

    1. Also, these are maximalist positions that get watered down.

      Democrats wanted single payer. They got the ACA.

      Trump may claim to want to deport everyone, but in the end, there will be symbolic ceremonies where the amnestied people re-cross a symbolic border, or something like that. (imagine a baptism that washes away your illegal border crossing sin.)

  52. America doesn’t deserve Trump. He would be a terrible president. But my god do arrogant know nothing douches like door he like Doherty does.

  53. Is Trump “anti-trade?”

    Or does he just think we made poor free-trade deals?

    I have heard him say very anti-trade things, but I can also tell you that China gets away with a lot of anti-free trade things as part of our free trade agreement.

    Frankly, being allowed to keep your currency devalued to boost exports, while part of monetary policy, is also a major discount for your export pricing if you’re a mercantilist country like the Asians countries were/are.

    Is it really “anti-trade” to ask for a free floating Yuan? Or to say you’d fight harder against rules that force Americans to invest in foreign countries with JV partners who then steal the tech?

    I guess I would still put him as “anti-trade” due to his threats against Ford’s Mexico plant, and his promises to “bring jobs back” which implies possible protectionism.

  54. ok… so maybe its that I’m like 8 deep on some heavy duty bourbon and yuenglings righ now, but it’s pissing me off that they haven’t mentioned in an article those Americans in France yet who stopped the attack…. of course maybe they already have and I’m just to drunk to keep up with it

    1. Which is surprising, seeing as these American heroes have been bragging about themselves all over the internet.

      1. well they did stop a terrorist…..
        idk what you’re trying to say here

  55. Whats wrong, rightwingers??? Not only do you have the guy that agrees with your POV, he is unabashed and unashamed of it, and wears the brand proudly.
    Now, you deny him????
    Much like jews denying Jesus, and crucifying him.
    This is YOUR baby, enjoy it, every goddamn funny, nonsensible wallbuilding, free trade hating minute of it.

    EAT IT

    1. I’m just looking for some hope and change to come our way.

      You know, something we can be proud of.

  56. I knew Trump fairly well for a few years. He operates quite simply. He gets a goal, then figures out what he needs to tell the people who can get him to his goal. There are no principles involved.

    He thinks his best bet to closing a deal on the Presidency as a personal achievement is to tap into the dark underbelly of the Republican Party, I don’t think for a minute he actually believes what he spouts. I don’t think he actually believes in anything at all. Except believing that saying something will get him approval in the arena where he needs it at that time.

    Which makes him extremely scary.

    1. Did he predict that his racist demagoguery would result in the termination of many lucrative business relationships and jeopardize his entire brand–while perhaps not worth as much as he says it is, undoubtedly his most prized possession and a rather important real part of the way he makes money?

      He’s played up his lack of ideology as a businessperson, used it as an excuse for why he’s fraternized with Democrats, etc. But his apparent obsession with the birth certificate and the “wall” stuff? Any idiot could know that the former didn’t have real legs in any context, though he could have been either shrewd or lucky enough to choose the latter as the issue that most excited some Republicans. I lean toward believing he’s yet another victim of the right-wing media brain microwave. Lots of his types, rich CEOs who got the company for Christmas from Daddy, gravitate toward politics that tells them how their success is a result of their own virtue, and it so happens that such rhetoric plays five minutes before or after the xenophobic ugliness on certain cable TV channels and radio shows.

      1. Hasn’t Trump been through bankruptcy multiple times? I doubt he’s too concerned about the consequences to his bottom line. He makes a fortune and loses it pretty often. He may be genuinely gunning for the White House, but even if he doesn’t win, unless he changes his tune drastically or really goes off the deep end, there’s a sizable chunk of the country that will do business with him precisely because of who he is.

        1. I think a few deals he has been involved in have lost money. Those individual business entities have gone bankrupt. Out of 100s. I don’t think he personally has lost his fortune ever.

      2. Tony|8.22.15 @ 10:49PM|#
        “Did he predict that his racist demagoguery would result in the termination of many lucrative business relationships and jeopardize his entire brand”

        Isn’t it great when an ignorant amateur makes claims to knowledge? Tony STFU; you don’t know what you’re posting about.
        Trump will end up making money on this as a result of the government Tony favors. I don’t know how, since I don’t have the connections to the Clintons that Trump does, but he has proven himself to be a champion of all that Tony favors: Big government, sucking the life out of those who really want nothing to do with it.

      3. Tony…he took a successful company and made it uber successful. His Daddy didn’t hand him much, and seeing him in operation, he could have done it himself easily enough.

        I’m a real estate developer. Very few kids inherit and end up keeping the family fortune. Very, very few.

    2. Whether or not Trump is a fraud is really irrelevant. The point is, whether or not his political career advances any further, he’s managed to tap into a deeply felt discontent and put issues on the table our Enlightened Betters have declared off limits. Trump may be a charlatan who will disappear tomorrow. But the movement he’s been a catalyst for will not.

      That’s a Good Thing?!

  57. ….” roughly meaning that the benefits of becoming learned on economics and policy far outweigh the benefits to most normal working Americans.”

    A certain editor must be asleep at the wheel. The author, however, may be high on something.

  58. The Trump factor is the conservative populist version of Obama’s Hope and Change. It is just as vague and as emotionally-driven as Obama’s version but bypasses the starry-eyed part (which is refreshing at this point after years of DC unicorn ranching) and goes straight to the shaking-things-up-for-its-own-sake part. Trumpeters are for the most part simply hoping for change and many will settle for any change and their only real hope at this point is to send a message to people they are tired of taxing our society, be they statists, illegal aliens, or career politicians. Mr. Smith goes to Washington with a can of whoop-ass and wide open rules of engagement. The idea gets people giddy. And can you blame them for wishing for it? As the Left likes to say about their more strident public figures, even when they are blatantly irrational, well at least they are opening a dialog on this (fill in the blank) issue.

  59. I cant imagine anyone with an ounce of common sense taking that idiot Trump seriously.

    http://www.Total-Privacy.tk

  60. Doherty is a one-man hate group, complete with ridiculous lies about Trump, the politician.
    Trump understands the problems we face, Doherty does not – he lives in a dream world. Doherty
    now blames the electorate for making his past predictions look like uneducated BS. I’m astounded at how stupid the “political experts” like Doherty have proven to be in therecent past. Now he wants us to believehe has acquired a brain and can make statements that people can actually take seriously. I note that much of the intemperate Trump-hatred coming out of Doherty’s foul
    mouth is now obsoelete – his claims of “vagueness” on Trump’s part are looking awfully stupid with Trump’s added details. Never have so many political “experts” been shown to be so incompetent – incapable of understanding the relatively simple dynamics of Trump’s rise to glory. They just don’t f*&**cking get it, man.

  61. Trump is simply a reflection of how badly the Rs have positioned themselves. He is a metric for how negatively Republicans view the other candidates. He is the only candidate in the field not beholding to moneyed interests, other than his own. He could be an indication of how Republicans view their collective futures. Regardless of the reasons, you can’t help but think that the chaos that it’s causing is a good thing for the long haul.

  62. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do…… ?????? http://www.online-jobs9.com

  63. Yeah, that’s why you have natural rights, such as “human dignity”, which are determined — interpreted — created by some elite, often courts. Apart from negative liberty, decentralzation, and pluralism, there’s no other option; it makes no sense to have the majority vote on whether there’s tyranny of the majority.

  64. Trump IS NOT wrong when he talks tough. It doesn’t sound to me as if many of you are in business.

    Being irrational is actually a really effective strategy. Let me rephrase that….sounding irrational is good. Acting irrational isn’t. Whether we like it, or not, there are some very self-centered people out there and talking tough works a lot of the time.

    Should he win, he will step up to the table and negotiate better deals than Obama. Why? Because anyone with half a brain can see that Obama has got nothing. Trump might stick it to you. When you write a trade deal with him you will have to take him seriously.

    Trump is negotiating right now, not with the voters, but with the rest of the world.

    At least, I hope so.

  65. the premise of the article is really stupid. Democracy would be the one thing that could actually save this country. Most of the policy prescriptions we recommend such as busting the unions, school reform, liability/tort reform, marriage reform, etc. would be voted in by WIDE MARGINS, the problem is PEOPLE DON’T EVEN HAVE A RIGHT TO VOTE DIRECTLY ON THESE ISSUES. That latter fact is also, it has to be remembered, deeply unfair and against modern ideas of the body politic.

  66. when exactly did Reason turn into Talking Points Memo. Can you stop with the fascism talk? Just because he’s a blow hard that you find ignorant – or that he thinks America should gain from trade treaties and that we have sovereignty, doesn’t make someone a white nationalist ffs. spinning into absurdity.

    1. When? Prolly about the time Nick and Matt took over.

  67. Just how irrational is the “employment bias” if 1) it’s more likely that the supply of “unskilled labor” is overwhelming the more arbitrary “skilled labor” supply, and 2) the impact of unemployment is very important to economic freedom and societal factors that economists are biased against?

  68. Start working at home with Google! It’s by-far the best job I’ve had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this – 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go? to tech tab for work detail,,,,,,,

    http://www.homejobs90.com

  69. Democracy = mob think.

    Democracy is where in a trio of three, two can “vote” to have the third person do all their labor.

    Democracy is slavery wrapped in emotional hyperbole. But, but, but, its for the children, don’tchaknow?

  70. Whoa!
    Lots of so-con ignoramuses showing up to prove the knowledge of econ isn’t wide-spread while stupidity is.
    Hey, blowhards! Ever hear of Adam Smith?

  71. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do…… ?????? http://www.online-jobs9.com

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