Bryan Caplan from the October 2007 issue
Almost all the “respectable” economic theories of politics begin by assuming that the typical citizen understands economics and votes accordingly—at least on average. By a “miracle of aggregation,” random errors are supposed to balance themselves out. But this works only if voters’ errors are random, not systematic.
The evidence—most notably, the results of the 1996 Survey of Americans and Economists on the Economy—shows that the general public’s views on economics not only are different from those of professional economists but are less accurate, and in predictable ways. The public really does generally hold, for starters, that prices are not governed by supply and demand, that protectionism helps the economy, that saving labor is a bad idea, and that living standards are falling. Economics journals regularly reject theoretical papers that explicitly recognize these biases. In a well-known piece in the Journal of Political Economy in 1995, the economists Stephen Coate and Stephen Morris worry that some of their colleagues are smuggling in the “unreasonable assumptions” that voters “have biased beliefs about the effects of policies” and “could be persistently fooled.” That’s the economist’s standard view of systematic voter bias: that it doesn’t exist.
Or at least, that’s what economists say as researchers. As teachers, curiously, most economists adopt a different approach. When the latest batch of freshmen shows up for Econ 1, textbook authors and instructors still try to separate students from their prejudices. In the words of the famed economist Paul Krugman, they try “to vaccinate the minds of our undergraduates against the misconceptions that are so predominant in educated discussion.”
Out of all the complaints that economists lodge against laymen, four families of beliefs stand out: the anti-market bias, the anti-foreign bias, the make-work bias, and the pessimistic bias.
Anti-Market Bias
I first learned about
farm price supports in the produce section of the grocery store. I
was in kindergarten. My mother explained that price supports seemed
to make fruits and vegetables more expensive but assured me that
this conclusion was simplistic. If the supports went away, so many
farms would go out of business that prices would soon be higher
than ever. I accepted what she told me and felt a lingering sense
that price competition is bad for buyer and seller alike.
This was one of my first memorable encounters with anti-market bias, a tendency to underestimate the economic benefits of the market mechanism. The public has severe doubts about how much it can count on profit-seeking business to produce socially beneficial outcomes. People focus on the motives of business and neglect the discipline imposed by competition. While economists admit that profit maximization plus market imperfections can yield bad results, noneconomists tend to view successful greed as socially harmful per se.
Joseph Schumpeter, arguably the greatest historian of economic thought, matter-of-factly spoke of “the ineradicable prejudice that every action intended to serve the profit interest must be anti-social by this fact alone.” Anti-market bias, he implied, is not a temporary, culturally specific aberration. It is a deeply rooted pattern of human thinking that has frustrated economists for generations.
There are too many variations on anti-market bias to list them all. Probably the most common error of this sort is to equate market payments with transfers, ignoring their incentive properties. (A transfer, in economic jargon, is a no-strings-attached movement of wealth from one person to another.) All that matters, then, is how much you empathize with the transfer’s recipient compared to the transfer’s provider. People tend, for example, to see profits as a gift to the rich. So unless you perversely pity the rich more than the poor, limiting profits seems like common sense.
Yet profits are not a handout but a quid pro quo: If you want to get rich, you have to do something people will pay for. Profits give incentives to reduce production costs, move resources from less-valued to more-valued industries, and dream up new products. This is the central lesson of The Wealth of Nations: The “invisible hand” quietly persuades selfish businessmen to serve the public good. For modern economists, these are truisms, yet teachers of economics keep quoting and requoting this passage. Why? Because Adam Smith’s thesis was counterintuitive to his contemporaries, and it remains counterintuitive today.
A prejudice similar to the one against profit has dogged interest, from ancient Athens to modern Islamabad. Like profit, interest is not a gift but a quid pro quo: The lender earns interest in exchange for delaying his consumption. A government that successfully stamped out interest payments would be no friend to those in need of credit, since that policy would crush lending as well.
Anti-market biases lead people to misunderstand and reject even policies they should, given their preferences for end results, support. For example, the Princeton economist Alan Blinder blames opposition to tradable pollution permits on anti-market bias. Why let people “pay to pollute,” when we can force them to cease and desist?
The textbook answer is that tradable permits get you more pollution abatement for the same cost. The firms able to cut their emissions cheaply do so, selling their excess pollution quotas to less flexible polluters. End result: more abatement bang for your buck. But noneconomists, including relatively sophisticated policy insiders, disagree. In his 1987 book Hard Heads, Soft Hearts, Blinder discusses a fascinating survey of 63 environmentalists, congressional staffers, and industry lobbyists. Not one could explain economists’ standard rationale for tradable permits.
The second most prominent avatar of anti-market bias is monopoly theories of price. Economists acknowledge that monopolies exist. But the public habitually makes monopoly a scapegoat for scarcity. The idea that supply and demand usually control prices is hard to accept. Even in industries with many firms, noneconomists treat prices as a function of CEO intentions and conspiracies.
Historically, it has been especially common for the public to pick out middlemen as uniquely vicious “monopolists.” Look at these parasites: They buy products, “mark them up,” and then resell us the “exact same thing.” Economists have a standard response. Transportation, storage, and distribution are valuable services—a fact that becomes obvious whenever you need a cold drink in the middle of nowhere. Like most valuable services, they are not costless. The most that is reasonable to ask, then, is not that middlemen work for free, but that they face the daily test of competition.
One specific price, the price for labor, is often thought to be the result of conspiracy: capitalists joining forces to keep wages at the subsistence level. More literate defenders of this fallacy point out that Adam Smith himself worried about employer conspiracies, overlooking the fact that in Smith’s time high transportation and communication costs left workers with far fewer alternative employers.
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Should be titled "The Four Ways Voters Sometimes Disagree With Bryan Caplan's Opinions Regarding Economics".
No Dan T
This article is right on the money. It also explains why most
people feel so warm and fuzzy when contemplating socialistic
ideas.
And so angry when actual facts are offered as to why free markets
work and socialism kills.
I just scanned TFA. It is simply infuriating that people just
can't understand things that, to me, are so obvious after
explanation. This is no more complicated than high school physics
or biology which, sadly enough, many (most?) people don't
understand either. I'm no genius, so what the hell is wrong with
all of these people I have to share the planet with? It's just so
frustrating, it makes me want to slap ignorant, stupid people,
repeatedly.
/rant
"""This pessimistic bias is a general-interest prop to political
demagoguery of all kinds. It creates a presumption that matters,
left uncontrolled, are spiraling to destruction, and that something
has to be done, no matter how costly or ultimately
counterproductive to wealth or freedom. This mind-set plays a role
in almost every modern political controversy, from downsizing to
immigration to global warming. """"
War on terror.
So dan, instead of snark, why don't you give us a counter-analysis that explains why the free market doesn't really work; why foreign trade and/or immigration are bad for us 'mericans; why productivity enhancement through technology is going to hurt everyone; and why, dear god why, the world is going to hell in a hand basket.
a scant 3 percent [of Americans] disliked Canada.
Damn maple-sucking puck slappers.
Damn maple-sucking puck slappers.
LOL. Possibly, the best non-derogatory, insult I've ever heard.
Generation X's entry into the work force accompanied the
marvels of the Internet age, not a stupor-induced decline in
productivity and innovation.
Only to have the internet bring about a decline in
productivity.
I think economist don't understand how the economy produces
rational results with irrational actors because they mistake the
rationalizing forces of the market with
rational acts of individuals.
In game theory, rationalizing forces are the economic rewards that,
over time push all players in a game towards the most optimal
strategy. For example, anyone who plays Tic-Tack-Toe more than a
few times figures out the winning move of putting the the first
mark in the center square. Likewise, in a free market, Individuals
making purchasing decisions quickly evolve the system to its most
efficient configuration even if each individual does not understand
what he/she is doing.
A vast gulf exist between what people think and say they want and
what they actually do. For example, people say they want to eat
"right" and exercise but most people don't. Companies that try to
base their offerings on what people say they want to buy fail in
comparison with those that offer what people actually demonstrate
they will buy.
The achilles hill of political management of the economy springs
from the disconnect from what people think and how they actually
act. We base political policy on our conscious, articulated ideas
but our actual economic actions arise largely from our unconscious,
unexamined choices.
J sub D - it was from
here.
The Canadian responded "you Shatner stealing Mexico touchers!"
I was following Shannon Love until she said the optimal tic tac toe strategy 1st move is the center square. Everyone knows the best tic tac toe square to start at is a corner one.
This site has some good content, but when it talks economics it veers sharply into la-la land. Your devotion to libertarian free-market capitalism is religious in nature; it is neither supported by any real-world experiments nor is it advocated by all economists, as you scandalously imply in your opening paragraphs. As are all easy panaceas, the notion that this simplistic economic model will produce prosperity for all is belied by reality. Maybe people vote for more government intervention because they see that it benefits them, them of course not being the 12 rich white guys who end up prospering from libertarianism.
Should be titled "The Four Ways Voters Sometimes Disagree With Bryan Caplan's Opinions Regarding Economics".
These aren't his "opinions", they're basic economic truths agreed
to by nearly all economists. It's not about libertarians versus
statists, it's about economic ignorance versus economic
understanding. For example, even if you desire universal
healthcare, a bias against markets would lead you to favor
inefficient means of providing that healthcare.
Wow, Stephen. Those were some mighty nice five dollar words you
used there in coming to a conclusion that you support with ... with
... well, with absolutely nothing.
But good job on 'panaceas' and 'scandalously'. They really sell
your otherwise empty argument, which I will now sum up:
"I think free markets are bad. There's a lot of evidence they're
bad. No, I won't share the evidence. Isn't my claiming it to be
true enough? Also, lolracism."
Bryan Caplan debunks four boneheaded biases of stupid
voters.
Whoever crafted this gem must be feeling pretty generous today. At
least he/she wanted to assure us before the roller-coaster ride
that our intelligence is superior.
Should be titled "The Four Ways Voters Sometimes Disagree
With Bryan Caplan's Opinions Regarding Economics".
I agree-there are plenty of reasons why to think that voters are
"boneheaded", but I'd feel like a dick if I were to say one of
those reasons was because they disagreed with me.
Should be titled "The Four Ways Voters Sometimes Disagree
With Bryan Caplan's Opinions Regarding Economics".
Remember, evolution is JUST a theory. Somebody's opinion. Jeez.
Don't miss Caplan's point that we all have these biases, that
they appear to be universal and are only overcome by rational
effort. The first three are ones that are easiest for libertarians
to notice in others, but the last one, pessimistic bias, is the one
that libertarians themselves are most prone to. Libertarian
pessimism is all about erosions of civil rights and the threat of
growing regulation, entitlement, and nannyism.
I personally think that these biases can be abstracted even more.
Anti-market bias is essentially a punishment bias, in that markets
don't punish bad behavior quickly or clearly enough for their taste
so markets need to be supplemented with a big stick like
regulation. Libertarians have more faith in markets to punish bad
actors, but our punishment bias comes in when we see politicians
and pundits going unpunished for their bad policies or bad
predictions. We scream for policy accountability.
Anti-foreign bias is already abstract, but libertarians cringe when
they see socialist governments declaring the success of socialism
by capitalizing on a valuable commodity. They are our ideological
foreigners.
The make-work bias is just a microeconomic bias. People tend to
focus on the parts of the system that are apparent to them. Use
Plato's cave or whatever your favorite metaphor might be, but they
are unable to see the larger impact of minor changes. For the
majority of voters, a good economy is represented by plentiful,
steady, high-paying jobs, not one where there is constant change in
skill demand and frequent business failure, even if the second is
far more likely to improve their overall equity faster.
Pessimistic bias appears to be a natural human function. Either it
is due to evaluating their personal equity by its second derivative
or it is a cognitive protection mechanism to guard against bad
surprises or any number of possibilities or combinations. It
appears to be an intrinsic part of the biology of human
cognition.
In my opinion, economics is such a complex discipline, with so
many changes made continuously, that any simple assertion (for
example, "protectionism helps the economy,") cannot be accurately
described as stupid or brilliant.
Depending on how one defines "protectionism" and "the economy," the
bias Caplan describes could be stupid or useful. Thoughtful
students of the best-proven economic information may conclude that
outsourcing/offshoring low-paying, low-skilled jobs improves the
economy, because it causes the DJIA to rise, but that economy is
not the one that most voters are participating in.
Stephen Dedalus,
Your devotion to libertarian free-market capitalism is
religious in nature; it is neither supported by any real-world
experiments...
Thanks for the cue to mention that Caplan teaches experimental
economics.
"libertarian free-market capitalism is religious in nature; it
is neither supported by any real-world experiments nor is it
advocated by all economists."
This is silly. First, I cannot think of any economic system
supported by "all" economists. Second, if you wish to provide
evidence of a more productive economic system than free market
capitalism, I (and the other readers of H&R) wait with
breathless anticipation. As noted on this thread, a "word-a-day"
calendar is not an suitable subsitute for a reasoned argument with
factual evidence.
ok, I'll take a stab at this....
1) monopolies. businesses always try for monopoly, they don't want
competition. Free markets without significant regulation will lead
to monopolies which will eventually hurt everyone. libertarians
like to pretend we have something like a free market - we don't. It
was closer to a free market back when we had the robber barons of
the late 1800's. The author mentions, but does not address this
issue. why do libertarians prefer to have their heads in the sand
rather than address the real problems with markets.
2)Foreigners. a)I admit to having a bias for my family and friends
and people i know benefiting from my economic activity rather than
someone in a different country. why? because we share the same
burden of taxation, leadership, and hopefully some shared values
that come from being a nation. If your theories of the world reject
the basic facts of being human - well good luck. b) a country must
be sure to keep some aspects of critical industries inside the
country in the event of war etc. It is not the most efficient in
the short run, but makes good sense if you don't have some sort of
belief in endless world peace.
3)The most basic problem with the arguments presented in the
article is that they work at the macro scale pretty well - however
they lead to a lot of misery and hardship for individuals. It is
perfectly rational to think that i would trade a little
macro-efficiency for more personal security. of course, it does
require one to think on a human scale. Libertarians are generally
in favor of ignoring actual individual peoples lives - "some must
suffer so i can get richer"?
Thats why a mixed economy of mostly free markets ( for efficiency),
but with significant regulation (to avaid monopolies and market
manipulation), and a social safety net (to avoid starvation and
misery etc.) is pretty much what everyone is actually using. This
formulation is broadly accepted (except for the few remaining
communists and libertarians), and mostly comes down to arguing
about the correct mix - the goldilocks spot - "just right".
I think it would be useful to acknowledge reality and then argue
about it - instead of arguing about abstract principles that have
never been tried in the real word.
Yes, but how do we stop Paris Hilton from voting? Or worse,
her "fans"?
I just like her vagina...does that make me a fan?
(Actually I don't. I like meatier girls, but it just struck me as
weird that being sexually attracted to a sexualized person is
somehow a sign of stupidity or lack of economic understanding.)
Rimfax: some thoughts:
This so-called libertarian pessimism has some foundation. Take the
US. Personal privacy has steadily ebbed away. The right to carry
firearms has also suffered. Income tax rates have varied wildly
during the century. The tax code, meanwhile, has become
progressively more and more byzantine.
To be fair, things haven't gone all bad. We have nearly universal
suffrage. Many laws restricting personal freedom, particularly in
the area of sexual conduct, are no longer. Slavery's gone. These
are pretty big things, to say the least.
It's an interesting question.
Only to have the internet bring about a decline in
productivity.
Evidence is to the contrary...since 1994 productivity has climbed
faster then any other time in US history.
Libertarians are generally in favor of ignoring actual
individual peoples lives - "some must suffer so i can get
richer"?
I personally believe that "some must suffer so more can get
richer." But, I'm also glad that there is a social safety net that
helps the more that get richer avoid getting mugged by the some
that suffer.
I'd agree that most people hold these biases (because they are
intuitive) and most economists don't, but these four are not
usually the bones of contention in the field of Economics right
now; Economists fight over much more interesting points that,
coincidentally, call into more basic question the assumptions of
Capitalism than these four.
My two favorites are problems of information asymmetry and
irrational actors. In most real markets, a rational actor will
still have difficulty making a productive set of choices because
often the information required to make the most beneficial choice
is obscured or unavailable. This comes up a great deal in
technology sales (why Lemon laws exist for cars, for example, in a
somewhat successful attempt to account for the imbalance) and in
medicine (where it is nearly impossible to do so).
Which in turn assumes that actors are rational at all. There is a
great degree of evidence, probably forcefully enough argued by the
very existence of these four endemic biases, that humans as
economic agents are by-and-large anything but rational most of the
time, and are fundamentally incapable in real situations of
consistently determining the course that would be dictated by a
rational analysis.
z, we certainly did NOT have a freer market in those days. Your
ignorance needs remedy. Read one of those much-vaunted progressive
tomes like "A People's History of the United States" or "Fast Food
Nation". You will find that each of the robber barons (or captains
of industry, as goes the dichotomy I was taught in high school)
benefited from governments that were grotesquely and unashamedly
collusive with them and served their interests - in tax breaks,
lending, outright gifts, the passage of favorable laws and the
striking down of unfavorable laws, strikebreaking with local,
state, and federal police, protection from international suppliers
- to a far greater degree than they go today.
For chrissakes, in the time you speak of, well over half the
country was prevented from voting one way or another. Libertarians
know that you need free markets and equal treatment under the law;
one without the other won't get you far.
Depending on how one defines "protectionism" and "the
economy," the bias Caplan describes could be stupid or useful.
Thoughtful students of the best-proven economic information may
conclude that outsourcing/offshoring low-paying, low-skilled jobs
improves the economy, because it causes the DJIA to rise, but that
economy is not the one that most voters are participating
in.
I think Boneheaded stupidity is an apt description...It not only
describes a general ignorance (stupidity) but also describes an
willfulness, despite all evidence, to that stupidity
(boneheaded)....just look at the guy I quoted...despite more and
more off shoring and despite historically low unemployment he still
thinks foreigners take our jobs.
My two favorites are problems of information asymmetry and
irrational actors.
Look more idiots...i like how this moron said this about the above
statement:
Economists fight over much more interesting points that,
coincidentally, call into more basic question the assumptions of
Capitalism than these four.
Which is funny because of the lead economists who's work is focused
on "information asymmetry and irrational actors" was Paul
Krugman...the very economist quoted in the piece as saying:
"This innovative stuff is not a priority for today's
undergraduates. In the last decade of the 20th century, the
essential things to teach students are still the insights of Hume
and Ricardo. That is, we need to teach them that trade deficits are
self-correcting and that the benefits of trade do not depend on a
country having an absolute advantage over its rivals."
Both the writer of the article, Bryan Caplan, and commenter
Stephen Dedelus, address the matter of how pro-free market
economists are. At the Volokh blog a few days ago there was a link
to an interesting scholarly article looking at this very question,
and concluding that few economists are dedicated supporters of
markets.
http://www.sofi.su.se/wp/WP06-6.pdf
larry states "Libertarians know that you need free markets and
equal treatment under the law; one without the other won't get you
far."
true - you just never hear libertarians talk about the second
point.
regarding my ignorance: look at Custer Battles- how it was formed
etc. most of the collusion still exists - look at health care, farm
policy (which supports agribusiness - not farming), big pharma, the
harnessing of university research funded by the public to enrich
individuals. not to mention the military! The collusion is still
there. but we have made significant strides on individuals being
treated fairly by the law.
how are labor laws more "free market" than the exploitation of the
late 1800's? and, um, did i hear a libertarian stating that Union
busting is anti-free market? aren't libertarians completely opposed
to unions?
my understanding:
1) we still have rampant collusion between govt. and big business -
the military-industrial-congressional complex being the most
obvious example.
2) we now have more protection of the individual through labor
laws, product safety laws etc. These laws are generally considered
regulation - and are not supported by libertarians.
therefore - less of a free market than in the late 1800s.
I will, however, admit to having vast amounts of ignorance. and I
am always looking for knowlwdge to fill those wide-open spaces. I
recommend a little humility - you are undoubtedly very nearly as
ignorant as I. The quantity of information and knowledge in the
world is such that this is the human condition.
"aren't libertarians completely opposed to unions?"
Why would we opposed to unions? We might be opposed to legal
protections for unions. But if people want to get together to
negociate...that is their business.
This is an excellent article and right on the money. I have read
an opinion of some evolutionary biologist, I can't recall his name.
That those biases are deeply pre-programmed instincts in our
species that have been left over since pre-historic times.
Up until 10 thousand years ago our ancestors lived in small groups
of no more then few dozens of individuals, and all those biases
were important for their survival.
The distrust of foreigners was important. Groups competed for
limited resources around them and were often on the edge of
starvation.
They had to divide food and other resources equally (or more
equally among themselves) since they were just one big extended
family. They disliked individuals who were hoarding stuff for their
own use because in their economy it really was a zero sum game. It
was to the detriment of the group. Bias of market economy is a
leftover instinct from those times.
Make work bias came from the fact that economy was much more simple
then consisting mostly of foraging and hunting. Maybe some tool
making to. So everybody had to be busy in some way all the
time.
Pessimism bias was a necessary survival tool. They new that few
good, plentiful months are not going to last so it is better not to
relax too much. This is probably true in the present also, may be
not as far as economy in general is concerned but as a fact in a
majority of human lives.
Then 10 thousand years ago economy, human way of life, and culture
began to change much faster than the evolution of a human
animal.
Ha, the so-called "pessimistic bias" is going to be very useful once peak oil hits. No more high standard of living, the west is going to have to cut down a lot on its standard of living. The developing countries won't be so lucky, the growth rates of China and India will be a thing of the past. The developing world will be subjected to a new colonailism and imperailism, think massive biofuels plants built by the multinational corportaions next to ethanol plntations so their wealth can be shpipped off to the west.
z,
If you think the corporate-government oligarchies of the late 1800s
were free-market, you need to redefine your terms. The term
"exploitation" that you use to describe the system at the time is
accurate - employment at the steel mill where you were forced to
live was, most of the time, not mutually beneficial.
Your examples of government-business collusion from modern times
are very real, and there is a great deal of libertarian scholarship
about them. Read up, you could learn something!
but the last one, pessimistic bias, is the one that libertarians themselves are most prone to.
How true. Go to a libertarian supperclub or Ron Paul meetup, and
get inundated with negativity. To most of them we are living in the
worst of all possible times. Some even get downright hostile if you
appear optimistic.
The truth is that we have made huge strides for liberty. It's
almost a driving force of history. Don't compare this year to last
year though, compare this year to fifty years ago, or a hundred
years ago. If you really want an optimistic lift to your spirits,
compare this year to a thousand years ago. Not everything has
improved, of course, but on the whole we are so much better off
than our ancestors, that only an idiot would want to trade places
with them.
Says the pessimist: "They may only have had a life expectancy of
thirty five, their teeth may have rotted away by twenty five, and
they may never have known more than fifteen people in their entire
lives, but dammit at least they were free!"
"If you want to get rich, you have to do something people will
pay for."
Maybe, but if you want to be rich, it's enough to be born into the
lucky sperm club.
In addition to Adam Smith's 'invisible hand' there appear to be
these other forces at work, 'invisible shoulders' as it were. These
biases, based on perceived self interest are the first thing that
comes to mind for many people when trying to explain some temporary
misfortune or other. A simple explanation might put them right in
many cases, but economists and others often don't get the chance to
explain or at least to be heard, what with the politicians going at
it hook and tong to exploit these natural human fears and
insecurities.
Everywhere, but in this country especially, politicians measure
their success by how skillful they are in appealing to some bias or
fear. They are very good at it, and the more successful they are,
the more they get elected.
Maybe, but if you want to be rich, it's enough to be born into the lucky sperm club.
That's good enough for the son, but it's not going to help the
grandson much. Dynastic wealth (e.i. aristocracy) is very rare in
this country. I happen to know a few millionaires, and they all
started out poor or middle class. None inherited their wealth.
""""That's good enough for the son, but it's not going to help
the grandson much. Dynastic wealth (e.i. aristocracy) is very rare
in this country."""
Only if you live in the liber fantasy land. Inherited wealth is the
norm,, lookat Bush Rockefeller Duponts Paris Hilton etc etc...
The achilles hill of political management of the economy
springs from the disconnect from what people think and how they
actually act. We base political policy on our conscious,
articulated ideas but our actual economic actions arise largely
from our unconscious, unexamined choices.
Shannon -- the disconnect of politicial management springs from an
unwarranted extrapolation. The quasi-socialist economics of a
family can work well, because the members of the family are closely
genetically related, know each other intimately, can expect
reciprocal altruism, and can exact direct consequences if the other
person fails to reciprocate the altruism. For example, one spouse
(generally female) can legitimately ask for redistribution of
wealth from the other spouse because she / he is working toward
meeting the needs of their spouse and children.
The problem arises when people try to apply this same workable
model to the general economy, where voters generally aren't
genetically related, are complete strangers, can't expect
reciprocal altruism, and individually have extremely tenous control
over the actions of those "leading" the society.
Socialism and collectivism is viable for families, but it doesn't
scale worth a damn.
Says the pessimist: "They may only have had a life expectancy of
thirty five, their teeth may have rotted away by twenty five, and
they may never have known more than fifteen people in their entire
lives, but dammit at least they were free!"
. . .as long as you weren't a serf tied to the land and forced to
labor for your lord. . .
How many people in those Ren-Fairs are brightly dressed lord,
ladies, knights, shopkeepers. . .and how many of them were thinly
dressed dirt diggers?
Only if you live in the liber fantasy land. Inherited wealth is
the norm,, lookat Bush Rockefeller Duponts Paris Hilton etc
etc...
There are a few families that maintain wealth over multiple
generations, but I've read recently (sorry, I can't back this up)
that most inherited wealth disappears by the second generation
after the patriarch.
We're going down, down, down into a burning ring of fire,
because "terrorism" increases bias against foreigners which, in
turn increases the bias in favor of pessimism.
Meanwhile, Dubya is pouring fuel on it all as fast as he and the
other neo-cons can.
I remember how polite we were when Nikita came over here.
Ha, the so-called "pessimistic bias" is going to be very
useful once peak oil hits.
We have like 400 years worth of coal right here in the lower
48....not to mention 10,000 years of uranium....peak oil is a
joke....only slightly more funny then you
Thank you, Ilya, for bringing up evolutionary psychology. It's probably the best way to explain these biases, IMO.
By the way, David Friedman has a piece on evolutionary psychology and economics on his website, very interesting reading.
>>>or immigration are bad for us 'mericans
Unrestrained illegal immigration composed mainly og poor and
unskilled worker is bad. Anyone who can't see that has their up
their ass and probably thinks the sky is green.
And this is from someone who is in the "bring in all the workers we
need to keep the economy humming" camp, but this open border
advocacy is utter bullshit mouthed by folks who are utterly out of
touch with objective reality.
1) monopolies. businesses always try for monopoly, they
don't want competition.
I don't know how much experience you have in the business world,
but it is not true that every business is trying for a monopoly. A
common strategy in the software business, for example, is to
cooperate to create a new market segment where both you and your
competitors can will get a piece of an expanding pie. Even
Microsoft follows this strategy.
Free markets without significant regulation will lead to
monopolies which will eventually hurt everyone.
It is incredibly hard to maintain a monopoly without government
backing. Especially if the business tries to abuse its monopoly
position; their customers will eventually find alternatives to the
abusive monopoly's products.
libertarians like to pretend we have something like a free
market - we don't.
Libertarians are actuely aware that we don't have a free
market.
2)Foreigners. a)I admit to having a bias for my family and
friends and people i know benefiting from my economic activity
rather than someone in a different country.
I feel the same way about my family and friends, but a lot of my
family and friends are in different countries. In this day
of jet travel, global trade, and the Internet, you may find
yourself with friends and family throughout the world someday, too.
My guess is that you are still young, so you haven't had time to
build a wide circle of friends and acquaintances.
b) a country must be sure to keep some aspects of critical
industries inside the country in the event of war etc.
Perhaps, but international commerce is one of the best ways to
prevent war from happening.
Libertarians are generally in favor of ignoring actual
individual peoples lives - "some must suffer so i can get
richer"?
Yeah, I've met libertarians who just don't care about people who
get burned by economic change, but that's not all libertarians. And
(this is important), economic change has to happen for the
long-term benefit of the human race. It is a really bad idea to try
to hold it back. I really have no problem with providing a social
safety net for people caught up in change.
I think it would be useful to acknowledge reality and then
argue about it - instead of arguing about abstract principles that
have never been tried in the real word.
It shouldn't have to be one or the other. The human mind works by
building an abstract model of reality. The best we can do is to
constantly refine those abstractions based on abstract logic and
real-world experience together.
>>> I just like her vagina...does that
>>> make me a fan?
No, it makes you the Indiana Jones of bacteriologists.
I hereby resolve to pay less attention than ever to people who
start off sentences with "Libertarians like to pretend" or
"Libertarians tend to forget", or refer to the "libertarian fantasy
land", and the like.
I'd prefer that these posters make arguments and debate the issues
rather than troll amongst people they seem to have a bone to pick
with.
Z,
The argument that market monopolies are always bad is one of the
biggest economic misconceptions. The history of bad monopolies
consists exclusively of government sanctioned monopolies (or
oligopolies).
An historical example of government sanctioned
monopolies/oligopolies were the robber barons. (Thanks for
mentioning them.) A modern example of government sanctioned
oligopolies are Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and the oil industry. In
both cases the government prevents the development of new
competition and the result is stagnant industries.
An historical example of a market monopoly was Standard Oil. Under
their market monopoly, the number of oil-related companies
increased every year and the price of oil went down every year.
Upon their government-mandated breakup, the number of oil-related
companies stopped growing and the price of oil began climbing. A
modern example is Microsoft. They transitioned a computer
illiterate consumer base to a multitasking multiuser GUI OS in
about 10 years (about 1990-2000). Although there were a few
competitors with arguably technically superior products, no one
else came close to the combination of ease of installation, ease of
use, and price that Microsoft was able to do.
Clearly, they have abused their advantage and the market as started
to punish them for it. The market tends not to punish quickly, but
it does punish relentlessly. If they aren't punished quickly enough
for you, by all means have the government break them up and
regulate the software industry. I'm sure that the resulting
companies will innovate every bit as well as the modern oil
industry.
One other annoying thing about this piece is the way (and
Caplan's not the only one who does this) the word "bias" has come
to mean "someone who disagrees with me."
True bias is more along the lines of "conflict of interest" - I
could never fairly judge my daughter in a beauty pagent because I'd
be biased towards her.
But if I was judging a beauty contest featuring women I didn't have
any connection to, I could be fair. And if I picked the blonde over
the brunette it wouldn't mean I was "biased" towards blondes.
So that's what I meant when I said that Caplan was not talking
about biases but rather just complaining that not all voters share
his opinion on things.
"Pessimistic bias is widely thought to have grown worse in the
modern era."
awesome.
Strangely, Dan, the American Heritage Dictionary doesn't share
your 'opinion' of what the word bias means.
I have italicized the relevant entries for your convenience.
bias
NOUN: 1. A line going diagonally across the grain of fabric: 'Cut
the cloth on the bias'. 2a. A preference or an inclination,
especially one that inhibits impartial judgment. b. An
unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice. 3. A
statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically
favoring some outcomes over others.
A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits
impartial judgment.
That's basically what I said. My preference for my daughter would
inhibit the impartial judgment of a beauty contest she participated
in.
When it comes to voting, if my father is running for office I'm
going to be biased and thus for for him even if his opponent is the
better candidate. But Caplan appears to be arguing that any
criteria you use to choose a candidate or policy amounts to "bias",
which renders the word meaningless.
Interesting essay, but he drops the ball on unskilled
immigration here:
"In terms of the balance of payments, immigration is a
nonissue. If an immigrant moves from Mexico City to New York and
spends all his earnings in his new homeland, the balance of trade
does not change. Yet the public still looks on immigration as a
bald misfortune: jobs lost, wages reduced, public services
consumed."
First, immigrants from Mexico don't spend all their
earnings here -- they send billions of dollars back to Mexico every
year. Second, the public is right to be worried about public
services consumed: since unskilled immigrants tend to receive more
in government benefits than the pay in taxes, we are worse off with
the unskilled immigrant here. We'd be better off paying a two
American teenagers to mow are lawns part time than one Mexican
immigrant to do it full time.
Second, the public is right to be worried about public
services consumed: since unskilled immigrants tend to receive more
in government benefits than the pay in taxes, we are worse off with
the unskilled immigrant here.
But isn't that also true of native unskilled workers? If anything,
being illegal probably means a low-paid Mexican worker is less
likely to apply for public aid than a citizen would.
First, immigrants from Mexico don't spend all their earnings
here -- they send billions of dollars back to Mexico every year.
Second, the public is right to be worried about public services
consumed: since unskilled immigrants tend to receive more in
government benefits than the pay in taxes, we are worse off with
the unskilled immigrant here. We'd be better off paying a two
American teenagers to mow are lawns part time than one Mexican
immigrant to do it full time.
The problem is they don't just mow lawns and clean houses. They
pack our meat, pick our veggies and fruit, build our homes, pave
our roads, cook in our restaurants and do countless other skilled
and unskilled jobs at a lower wage. That makes the price of all
those products and services cheaper. The question is, does the
benefit of having a willing and able cheap labor force outweigh the
cost of providing them with benefits? I haven't crunched the
numbers, but I would imagine it does.
Plus, pumping a little cash into the Mexican economy can only serve
to benefit us long term. The families that receive it will use it
to build homes and start businesses in Mexico giving them less
incentive to come here and more of a steak in their own country's
future.
Jose Ortega y Gasset and others:
There is plenty of evidence of quasi-socialist economies working
brilliantly. After all, it wasn't a free-market free-for-all that
Roosevelt spearheaded in order to turn the US into the most
powerful country on earth. That sort of economy led to the gilded
age and, alas, depression. But maybe that's not the proper
definition of "working." Perhaps a better definition is what we see
in Europe and Canada, where people don't kill themselves worrying
how they're going to pay for healthcare.
I don't feel the burden of proof is on me. Name a single country
that has a pure free-market economy. Name a single shred of
evidence that this simplistic calculus actually works to advance
civilization rather than returning it to stone-age dog-eat-dog
barbarity.
I'm a libertarian when it comes to social issues. The government
has no valid stake in policing people's bedrooms and, to as much an
extent as possible without trampling people, boardrooms. But the
government is supposed to be representative of the people. Whether
it is or not is an open question--but it's certainly clear that
corporations have not even such a facade of accountability. I trust
the government long before I trust Wal-Mart to serve the interests
of the people. What's important is to get off this Reagan-era
nonsense bandwagon of automatic disdain for it, when improvement
can only come from the citizenry.
What a clever bit of rhetoric to call people irrational voters
because they vote their immediate interests rather than for some
unproved, unworkable fantasy theory that libertarians promise us
might, one day, make life better. Just let the economy fairy do her
magic.
Wait, there was an experiment in free-market capitalism run on a
mass scale. It's called Iraq.
Wait, there was an experiment in free-market capitalism run on a mass scale. It's called Iraq.
You should have put this at the beginning of your post, to save me
the time I spent reading it. What utter bullshit.
I just want to get this straight:
Is Caplan saying that free markets would work perfectly if it
weren't for the natural condition of the consumer's behavior?
There is plenty of evidence of quasi-socialist economies
working brilliantly. After all, it wasn't a free-market
free-for-all that Roosevelt spearheaded in order to turn the US
into the most powerful country on earth.
Stephen, FDR's socialist policies turned a recession into the Great
Depression. People's standard of living didn't really take off
until that SOB was dead and buried (yeah, yeah, employment rose
during WWII due to government spending, but the standard of living
didn't fare so well -- look at the 139 cars produced in the entire
nation from about 1942 until the end of the war, as cited in Ken
Burns' "The War").
How anyone still believes that the worst president in our nation's
history was the best president -- now there's a "boneheaded
bias"!
Is Caplan saying that free markets would work perfectly if
it weren't for the natural condition of the consumer's
behavior?
trip grass -- no, he's saying that free markets work better than
unfree markets, but irrational biases of voters prevent us from
enjoying the benefits of a fully free market.
But hey -- feel free to revel in the glorious serfdom of a less
free market if that's your wont.
Stephen -- North Korea versus South Korea. West Germany versus
East Germany. Cuba versus Florida.
I could go on and on, but if these side-by-side comparisons of
socialism versus somewhat free markets don't convince you that
you're wrong, nothing will. You're immune to logic and
evidence.
"Bryan Caplan debunks four boneheaded biases of stupid
voters."
"Whoever crafted this gem must be feeling pretty generous today. At
least he/she wanted to assure us before the roller-coaster ride
that our intelligence is superior."
Too bad you freeloaders don't get the print edition. Then you'd see
"And we're all boneheaded voters" noted prominently on the
cover.
"Maybe, but if you want to be rich, it's enough to be born into the
lucky sperm club."
"That's good enough for the son, but it's not going to help the
grandson much. Dynastic wealth (e.i. aristocracy) is very rare in
this country. I happen to know a few millionaires, and they all
started out poor or middle class. None inherited their
wealth."
Rational Human | September 26, 2007, 8:42pm | #
""That's good enough for the son, but it's not going to help the
grandson much. Dynastic wealth (e.i. aristocracy) is very rare in
this country.""
"Only if you live in the liber fantasy land. Inherited wealth is
the norm,, lookat Bush Rockefeller Duponts Paris Hilton etc
etc..."
Which fantasy land is it where Bush, Rockefeller and the Hiltons
are "the norm"?
prolefeed - "he's saying that free markets work better than
unfree markets, but irrational biases of voters prevent us from
enjoying the benefits of a fully free market."
and my back would feel better after a night of sleep in a world
without gravity - unfortunately i sleep in this one.
Only if you live in the liber fantasy land. Inherited wealth is the norm,, lookat Bush Rockefeller Duponts Paris Hilton etc etc...
You are using the word "norm" in a manner I am not used to. If
inherited wealth were the norm, then the average person would have
inherited wealth. But it is most certainly NOT the norm, it is an
aberation. You list a handful of people on the far far right of the
bell curve and claim it to be the "norm". Ridiculous.
Jack Boone--
I grant you that probably enough time hasn't elapsed to unveil the
glories of the free market in Iraq, assuming there will still be an
Iraq around to enjoy them, but Iraq was quite clearly an attempt at
an experiment in forcing a radical economic model on an unwilling
population, just to prove to the world that it's the best way,
thus, by the ever-proven domino effect, wash the Middle East in
virtuous capitalism and, presto, we have Utopia.
This is the problem I have with the libertarian model. It's not
pragmatic enough. Comparing North and South Korea or East and West
Germany won't do. None of these parties was a libertarian society,
and I will be the first to criticize the equally ideological, and
equally untenable, pure communist experiments that were run in the
last century.
We have to get our heads out of the clouds and stop it with this
obsessive compulsive loyalty to an economic theory that was, it
must be said, championed by Reagan after he had it explained to him
on the back of a napkin. I think reality demands a mixed economy,
capitalistic for the sake of innovation and healthy competition,
but socialistic in ways as well, because there will always be
losers (by definition) in capitalism, and I think we have to make
the moral decision not to let those losers fall out of the game
completely.
Because in the end, it's not really about which abstract theory is
most correct or tenable, but about what kind of a society we want
to live in. It's a moral question, not a scientific one. I just get
the feeling sometimes libertarians prefer a society in which
they're free to get rich at everyone else's expense. Thank you Ayn
Rand for making selfishness and greed fashionable.
NO NO NO!!! Why would anybody approve more taxes to "fix"
something that is not "broke?" The great majority of global warming
on our planet is directly related to NATURAL phenomena that we as
humans have NO control over.
Biofuels contribute more to carbon emissions than petroleum based
products.
Thank goodness for "global warming" or we would still be in the Ice
Age.
I wonder if human activity is the cause of global climate change on
Mars as well. They are the ones in need of the Carbon Tax!
;-)
In short: Human caused "global warming" is a sham and hoax. It does
not exist. It is a rediculous idea to tax to fix something that
does not exist.
Wait, there was an experiment in free-market capitalism run
on a mass scale. It's called Iraq.
Wow, you've thrown a lot of assertions out there. Maybe we can
start by getting to the bottom of this one. What's your definition
of "free-market capitalism"?
[...] but Iraq was quite clearly an attempt at an experiment in forcing a radical economic model on an unwilling population, just to prove to the world that it's the best way [...]
Where did you get that idea? Do you really think Halliburton,
Blackwater, and the Department of Defense are paragons of the free
market? Or that the Bush administation is in any way populated by
free marketeers?
Christ on a cracker, you really have no clue what the hell you're
talking about. You're conflating free markets (what libertarians
like) with corporatism (what Enron likes). You've confused
libertarians (us) with Republicans (Reagan), and smug, ignorant
assholes (yourself) with critical thinkers (not yourself).
Mike and Jake:
You've touched precisely upon the problem. There is no good
definition of libertarian free markets because none has ever
existed. I've confused Republicanism with libertarianism in this
case because the Republicans have confused it. They've used the
rhetoric of the free market to enact policies that shift risk from
the wealthy to the non-wealthy.
I haven't been terribly clear, but really my only point is about
rhetoric and reality. It makes no sense to be in favor of a free
market. A free market is the same thing as anarchy. It's the
natural state of things, a state that governments were invented to
improve upon.
I'm fully aware that the Bush regime and its corporate puppeteers
are libertarians in much the same way that Hillary Clinton is a
communist, that is, absolutely not at all. My point about Iraq was
that one of the war's goals was to use the "free market" (which
Bush has confused with "letting big corporations do whatever they
want") to transform the region and vindicate Republican
anti-government (pro-corporate) rhetoric. The point is, when
tantalizing ideologies seem to contain everything to make the world
right, and once we begin measuring every policy and political
utterance on the metric of that ideology, bad things tend to
happen.
I'll spend a couple of hours translating this to portuguese so my father will be able to read and, maybe, stop hating Pigou, who he says tried to prove scientifically that money can buy everything...
Stephan,
Just because different people or different groups have different
definitions of terms like "free market" and "captialism" that
doesn't equate to those terms not having a definition. I can't
think of one term used in politics that doesn't have different
meanings when used by different groups.
Here, at this libertarian blog, you'll find some variation in what
people mean by "free market" and "capitalism", but they don't vary
that much. Our libertarian definitions are not invalidated by
strange Republican ideas; we're generally not Republicans. And a
lot of libertarians here would also distinguish between free
markets and anarchy.
It seems like you are trying to criticize libertarianism by giving
examples of things that people that aren't libertarians have said
and done.
"...they're free to get rich at everyone else's expense." Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin couldn't have said it better. Well done. No rejoinder could possibly penetrate a mind that dense.
I've felt for a long time that if the public as a whole was
better educated in economic principles then at least they would
have the tools to make informed decisions. That being said, I have
a couple comments. In regards to free trade, one of the basic
tenants of free trade is that goods are mobile, but capital is not.
The problem with our current system is that often times instead of
trading wool for wine, we are purchasing both on the international
market. Thus, our balance of payments problems. Moreover, in our
never ending quest to get goods at the cheapest possible price, we
tend to create the "race to the bottom" where only the companies
that employ the worst labor practices, and pollute the most can
compete on price. Moreover, even assuming that the producing
country was considered the jobs from the factory to be adequate
compensation for the extra pollution, we know that pollution has no
borders. For example, the wastes from factories in China end up in
the air over CA.
Finally a note about people attitudes and happiness. I would argue
that happiness is continually assaulted by a barrage of advertising
that tries to convince you that you are miserable, but true
happiness awaits if only you will buy this product, or get this
look. Unfortunately time and again we find out that true happiness
comes from things like time with family etc. I am by no ways trying
to insinuate that all consumption is bad, but instead to say that
we often focus way to much on it.
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