Nine Killed in S.C. Church Shooting, Alexander Hamilton Off the $10 Bill, Lester Holt to Replace Brian Williams as Nightly News Anchor: A.M. Links

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  via boweryboyshistory.com

  At least nine people including a state senator were killed in a shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopalian Church in Charleston, South Carolina.

• The Treasury Department announced it would remove Alexander Hamilton from the $10 bill in 2020 and replace him with a woman.
• According to the United Nations there were nearly 60 million refugees around the world at the end of last year.
• Police in Cleveland, Mississippi are investigating the fatal shooting of a dog by an officer. The dog's owner says the city offered to pay his vet bills and buy him a new dog but he wants changes in police response policies.
• The investment bank Goldman Sachs told its interns to be out of the office by midnight and not to return until 7:00a.m.
• Brian Williams will be staying at NBC News but Lester Holt will take over as permanent anchor of the network's evening newscast.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Treasury Department announced it would remove Alexander Hamilton from the $10 bill in 2020 and replace him with a woman.

Kaitlin Hamilton.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"The Treasury Department announced it would remove Alexander Hamilton from the $10 bill in 2020 and replace him with a woman."

Hello.

Well. He is a dead white guy.

And he was in a duel. Ewww.

[John Titor]

Hamilton was a bit of a piece of shit. Replacing him with Abigail Adams or someone else would probably be an improvement.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

I think the Fed is going to start putting leaked celebrity nudes on their currency, we'll see inflation come to a halt.

[FreeToFear]

Not as much of a POS as Jackson though...

[kbolino]

Hamilton was a piece of shit, but he was a pro-central bank piece of shit, which I think makes it fitting that he appears on their banknotes. That they chose to remove him and not arch anti-bank crusader (and piece of shit) Andrew Jackson I find a bit puzzling.

[Mike M.]

Hillary?

[Judge Chipper]

Solution: 3-dollar bill, Caitlyn Jenner.

[Jimbo]

As queer as...

[l0b0t]

Good riddance! Hamilton was a tyrant, wannabe usurper, and murderer of PA farmers. The sole reason that being a natural-born citizen is in the Constitution as POTUS qualification was to bar Hamilton from that office. Vice President Burr was a traitor, a real no-shit paid agent of the King of Spain; he spent his time plotting to subvert the Louisiana Purchase and establish a Spanish kingdom over which he would be a delegated sovereign. All of that traitorous behavior is forgiven because he killed that shit-heel Hamilton.

[The Last American Hero]

Was Burr paid directly? I have it on good authority that Spain was just making donations to his charity.

[JeSuisRaison, moulin ? bois]

WDATPDIM

[l0b0t]

I've been engrossed in a biography of Zebulon Pike (of Pike's Peak); he was used as a patsy by Burr and his toady James Wilkinson. It is really fascinating and I wonder why none of this (quite literally, none of this) was ever mentioned during my secondary school and college experience.

[Zeb]

And he's named Zebulon, which is a pretty cool name to have.

That is some interesting history that I know almost nothing about.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

And I bet your secondary school told you that nationalizing industry and building bombs was good economics.

[l0b0t]

True dat! The industry part certainly but this was the early/mid 1980s so the overwhelming majority of faculty would try to work digs on President Reagan into the curricula so building bombs was bad, mmmkay.

[In League with the Dark Ones]

I learned about it (and Burr's desire to build a new empire in the West) in HS... where the hell did you go to school???

[RAHeinlein]

If you're interested in Burr, "American Emperor" by David Stewart is well-researched; also, the author shares your opinion of Hamilton.

[l0b0t]

Awesome, thanks. (scurries off to library).

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

The Treasury Department announced it would remove Alexander Hamilton from the $10 bill in 2020 and replace him with a woman.

We'll be able to get a woman for $10 in 2020?

The free market at work, YAHH!

[Brett L]

Soneone suggested putting Janet Yellen on the $20 so when you hand it over and get no change for a cup of coffee you know who to thank.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

Would Chip Her?

+1 Chip-in!

[american socialist]

Duh. Ayn Rand.

Paging Robby Soave: we need an article on how PC has run amok, stat. I mean, what women has done anything of any consequence? Probably women there are going all PMS, you know what I mean.

Ed, there's a reference to a mass shooting and guns in the same paragraph on my reason.com page on my computer. I don't like this at all. Guns don't kill people, people do.

[WTF]

Dreams are a great thing, but you know something? They take a lot of energy. But that's OK. There's a job waiting for you down the block from your house that doesn't require a thought in your head or a hope in your heart. So come on down and work for the artificial flower factory. Why fight it? OK? Thank you.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Ugh. The parasite has found its way into the A.M links.

[SugarFree]

Have you noticed that it's given up on pretending to be serious and is now just outright trolling?

Another dipshit has been broken on the wheel. The next stage will be it staking out some minor thread to post in a few hundred times. Then it will start handling-hopping and grousing about how mean we are.

Boo-hoo-hoo.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

I see you're still acting as if the Reason writers are actually going to respond to your inane ramblings.

[John Titor]

I love the utterly smug way AS always spews his fallacies, like he's somehow being brilliantly clever.

[american socialist]

It's kind of like that movie "About Schmidt." One day I might get a response from nick gillespie. I hope.

[Monty Crisco]

Really nothing like that movie. Except that you also sit down to pee.

[bacon-magic]

You just want a response from anyone so that you can feelz. Here you go: fuck off.

[PM]

Take your meds Mary.

[Zeb]

Who is saying anything against putting a woman on money?

[BigT]

Will this be a turn-off to the stripper who gets a ten spot tucked in her garter? Inquiring for a friend.

[Zeb]

Only because she was expecting a $20.

[commodious spittoon]

Here's a thought: by historical happenstance, white men have predominated at the forefront of every great movement and shakeup in Western history. This drive for tokenism on symbolic media is patronizing and ahistorical.

Here's another thought: personality cults and symbolic gestures are dumb.

[american socialist]

And I've been scolded about calling libertarianism a sausage-fest. Pshaw.

[commodious spittoon]

You're making a morality play of perhaps the dumbest practice of civic engagement, arguing over whose face we print on our paper. If tokenism is the best women can aspire to, history will continue being a sausage fest. I happen to think that isn't the case, but I can see how symbolic gestures and tokenism is useful to Marxist revisionists.

[BigT]

" I can see how symbolic gestures and tokenism is useful to Marxist revisionists"

Yes. They get all the good feels for helping others without actually doing anything.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

White men built a tolerant and prosperous enough society that ethnic minorities, women and people of miscellaneous genitalia can be tolerated, be prosperous and be led to believe that they built this civilization. The only such tolerance you find on planet earth comes out of societies built by white heterosexual males.

[Chip Morningwood Esq]

they'll probably go with Bill Clinton's wife or FDR's wife or Barack Obama's wife. because of the achievements.

[commodious spittoon]

Abigail Adams or GTFO.

[BigT]

Aretha Franklin. Then I'll be able to tip my doorman with a Franklin just like Howard Stern does.

[bacon-magic]

R.E.S.P.E.C.T. find out what this 10 spot means to me.... ????

[Chip Dalasio]

Here's a thought: by historical happenstance, white men have predominated at the forefront of every great movement and shakeup in Western history.

Strictly speaking, this essentially true. It's not an inherent indication of any particular superiority of white men. It's a consequence of the fact that European society (which is pretty much white) happened upon concepts like the rule of law and limited government. This super-charged the creative and productive abilities of its inhabitants. At the same time, that society was not uniformly open or fair. Women weren't afforded the same opportunities as men to participate in social, economic, or political activity outside the home.

[Igor]

Someone's been reading his Hernando deSoto ....

[Chip Dalasio]

Actually, my thinking is more heavily influenced by the NYU Stern Growth Diamond. But, deSoto's thinking fits very cleanly with this.

[Mike Laursen]

There have been many women of great achievement: Jesus' mom, Isaac Newton's mom, George Washington's mom, ... The list goes on and on; all women who have given birth to men who have done great things.

[Heedless]

Elizabeth I was pretty badass. The prime importance of physical strength, the danger of death in childbirth, the low survival rate of children, and the cultures that arose in response to those factors dictated that even if a Maggie Thatcher or a Rosalind Franklin was born prior to the industrial revolution, it would require a truly extraordinary confluence of circumstances for her to perform any function beyond wife, mother, prostitute or nun.

[In League with the Dark Ones]

Then you can remember how Ayn Rand warned people against libertarianism.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

The Treasury Department announced it would remove Alexander Hamilton from the $10 bill in 2020 and replace him with a woman.

Solution: Hamilton duels whoever is chosen has his replacement.

[Florida Man]

Why not Franklin? Can't give women the big bill?!?

[Idle Hands]

Women only make $77.00 per $100.00 dollars men make so chances are they will never see one anyway.

[fish]

I refuse to carry $77 dollar bills! This is every bit as bad as those cheesy quarter sized Susan B. Anthony dollar coins.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

Because Franklin was a friend of the ladies, ifyaknowudimean. *wink win nudge nudge*

[John Titor]

The man did love his MILFs.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

And with regard to theirs, if the Affair should happen to be known, considerate People might be rather inclin'd to excuse an old Woman who would kindly take care of a young Man, form his Manners by her good Counsels, and prevent his ruining his Health and Fortune among mercenary Prostitutes.

Mercenary Prostitutes would be a good band name.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

And he preferred his MILFs with a wicker basket over their old ugly faces, and in the dark, and with a girdle so their stomach doesn't sag over the similarly saggy vagina.

So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding2 only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.

But once you're in, you won't be able to tell the difference. And since they'll be dead soon enough, they make for great practice and discretion.

[Adans smith]

Was he a lumber jack also?

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

And a pipe layer.

[bacon-magic]

The glass ceiling stops at the $20. We will consider offering a stamp though.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I bet it's gonna be Oprah.

Or Aunt Jemima.

Or Uncle Ben.

Or the Quaker Oats dude.

[Zeb]

Or Santa Claus.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Best dollar bill bar none:

http://bit.ly/1J5OBY7

[Swiss Servator, Holzhacker]

THAT IS ONLY 25 CENTS!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

http://bit.ly/1TxcPgX

Better?

I own about $16 in CT money.

[Citizen Nothing]

I got a 5 cent Canadian Tire note with a fill-up in Ontario last week. It's proudly pinned to my bulletin board next to my Zimbabwe $100 trillion note. I assume the Canadian Tire money is worth more.

[UnCivilServant]

Since the closeout exchange rate on the Zimbabwe dollar is 35 quintillion: 1USD, you're probably right.

[But Enough About Me]

I assume the Canadian Tire money is worth more.

Well, considering you can actually buy something useful with the Canadian Tire money, sure.

[Pathogen]

No true Scotsman would have that French gibberish on his bill..

[GILMORE, LVL20 Blowhard]

i was babysitting my nieces last night and we went through an old foreign coin collectiom and i told stories about what was going on in those places at those times. the most interesting was some East German coinage from 1950. They'd never heard of it. They know all about America killinng Indians, and America having slaves, but had never heard of the Soviet Union

[But Enough About Me]

Does no-one teach your kids about the Cold War?

Ye gods.

[PapayaSF]

This one is better.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The investment bank Goldman Sachs told its interns to be out of the office by midnight and to return until 7:00a.m.

Seven hours of returning?

[AlmightyJB]

A statement that makes no sense linking to a pay site. Nice.

[Rhywun]

Yeah, what the hell is it about? Anyone?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I haven't read it either, but I'm assuming it's stemming from interns working themselves literally to death to prove their future worth to the organization and this being the answer.

[Rhywun]

My guess was something more nefarious that was taking place in the midnight hour and out of the prying eyes of neophytes.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Here is CNN's take. Unless I'm mistaken, there was an intern who died working around the clock at a British firm last year.

[Rhywun]

That's much less interesting than what I had in mind. Oh well.

And to each his own I guess, but if my boss told me to work "overnight" I would have some choice words for him on my way out the door to look for another job.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Brian Williams will be staying at NBC News but Lester Holt will take over as permanent anchor of the network's evening newscast.

Rearranging deck chairs.

[bacon-magic]

"This is Brian Williams reporting LIVE from Timbuktu and I have a newspaper in my hand with today's date and a gps locator visible to the camera to prove that I'm not Rachel Dolezal'n you peeps."

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

At least nine people including a state senator were killed in a shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopalian Church in Charleston, South Carolina.

I may not know anything about the facts, but I sure do know some major gun control could have stopped this.

Have we considered making it a crime to use a gun for illegal purposes?

[VG Zaytsev]

If only that church had been a gun free zone.

[DaveSs]

Per SC law, they are.

Persons with a CHL require express permission to carry there.

[BigT]

Too bad the congregation wasn't packing - the shooter likely wouldn't have gotten away.

[Pathogen]

When will we have common sense murder laws? Our nation is so retrograde..

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

The time has come to finally outlaw prostitution killing people with guns.

[Apple]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/l.....ch-shooter

Looks like him.

[Lord Humungus]

Too soon?

Bottling the smell of dead people won't capture their essence

Victorian jewellery made from hair. Cremated remains compressed into diamonds. The elderly lady in Pennsylvania who lived with the embalmed bodies of her husband and twin sister. Our culture is buried in ingenious methods of preserving the essence of our dearly departed. But the latest balm for the bereaved is just that: balm. Or more specifically, perfume derived from a loved one's body scent, devised by a French insurance saleswoman grief-stricken at her father's death.

Katia Apalategui, 52, was inspired by her mother, who treasured her late husband's pillowcase with its traces of his precious smell. "This gave me the idea of bottling a dead person's unique scent," says Apalategui. "So that grieving relatives can keep their loved one's memory alive."

[Florida Man]

It's a nice idea.

[Ein Barde und ein Holzhacker]

That is really disgusting. With all the news about Rachel Dolezal and Bruce Jenner, and now this, I'm now convinced that insane is the new normal.

[Zeb]

If it's an old Frenchman, couldn't she just have someone follow her around smoking Gauloises?

[Elspeth Flashman]

I inherited some costume jewelry of my grandmother's. A few years had gone by after her death before the jewelry came to me. It still smelled like her - a combination of Ivory soap, Estee Lauder perfume, and baby powder.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

that's kinda cool. I'll be getting my mom's jewelry in a few months when I next visit my dad. I hope it'll smell like her!

If I want to remember my grandma's smell, I just need a jar of Pond's Cold Cream.

[Elspeth Flashman]

The scent did linger for a while, actually. I even got an old jewelry box of hers, which had the most strong scent to it.

[Zeb]

If I want to smeel my grandfather, all I have to do is light up some Captain Black pipe tobacco.

[MoriahJovan]

Child's play!(NSFW)

[SugarFree]

Why not just have Hamilton transition?

[SugarFree]

I mean, most of them are already wearing wigs.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I knew it. None of you read my first comment. You just skip right ahead with your comments own thinking you know best.

[SugarFree]

Yup. We other you and erase your contribution.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Hmmm.... Do you make comments own here?

[Fist of Etiquette]

pwned

[Rich]

"Got change for a ten?"

[SugarFree]

"Here's $7.20."

[Swiss Servator, Holzhacker]

*narrows gaze*

[SugarFree]

It's really a very interesting process. First they skin the bill and turn it inside out. This form the basis of the new bill. Then...

[Rich]

Is it still called a "bill" afterwards?

[SugarFree]

Willamina

[Swiss Servator, Holzhacker]

*renarrows gaze*

[Idle Hands]

Hamilton was kind of pretty.

[invisible furry hand]

Because Rachel Dolezal would look better on the banknote

If Hamilton is going to be booted off, why not pick a properly weird choice? We used to have a convicted forger on our currency. Surely the US can beat that

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Related: Do they have Pillsbury Toaster Strudels in Australia? If so, are they poisonous?

[invisible furry hand]

I... physically... don't understand that phrase

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I do that to people sometimes.

[Pathogen]

The Strudels in Australia themselves are non-toxic.. it's the Vegemite filling that causes severe liver damage and renal failure...

[UnCivilServant]

Bonnie Parker - she had close ties with money and banking too...

The reverse can be a V8 Ford riddled with bullet holes.

[SugarFree]

Black Rachel on the front with the mountain of braids; White Rachel in the back in her Mennonite overalls.

[Warty]

Please tell me you have that guy who wore the metal suit and tried to rob a bank on one of your banknotes.

[SugarFree]

A bloody-mouthed dingo is on the $17.63 AU.

[Citizen Nothing]

A dingo ate my money!

[UnCivilServant]

You've got my mind stuck on Redbelly from Borderlands (pre-sequel) who was based on that guy.

[invisible furry hand]

I am more than happy to tell you we do. It's a lie, but if it puts a tiny smile on your face, a tear in your eye, and a tent in your pants ...

[Warty]

Thank you, IFH. I knew I could count on you to tell me one of those sweet, sweet lies I love.

[Elspeth Flashman]

thanks for the lols on that.

[UnCivilServant]

NED KELLY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Kelly

Took me long enough to find that.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Heath Ledger Ned Kelly or Mick Jagger Ned Kelly?

[UnCivilServant]

What this portrait isn't good enough for a dollar bill?

[Stormy Dragon]

Yahoo Serious Ned Kelly

[John Titor]

Naw, Australia's money all has Mad Max villains on it.

[Pathogen]

No, only Chopper Reid..

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Choppah!

[gaijin]

Princess Leia

[Mike Laursen]

Episode VI Princess Leia or Episode VIInPrincess Leia?

[gaijin]

ROTJ Princess Leia of course. Gold accoutrements and all!

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Because Rachel Dolezal would look better on the banknote

That would require a lot more ink...

Oh, wait, that could have been racist, if only...

[Zeb]

I vote for a return to Lady Liberty on money.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

^THIS.

[space junk]

Agreed on Lady Liberty.

But they will probably choose someone like Liz Warren.

[Zeb]

Living people aren't allowed on money, right?

Might not be the worst choice.

[Rhywun]

You know it won't be a white woman so why not, oh, Foxy Brown as "Lady Liberty".

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"Brian Williams will be staying at NBC News but Lester Holt will take over as permanent anchor of the network's evening newscast."

The details are behind the paywall.

[Lord Humungus]

Tennessee couple assaults neighbor who called cops about loud sex, fight

f the bed's rocking, don't come knocking ? or call the police, apparently.

A Tennessee couple attacked a neighbor who complained to cops about their loud sex, police said.

Johnny Allen Richards, 33, and Erin Brooke Lawson, 32, were arrested June 9 for beating and stabbing their Rogersville neighbor for ratting on their raunch, the Kingsport Times-News reported.

The attack happened after Hawkins County Sheriff deputies were summoned to the couple's apartment for a second time. The first time, the couple had been getting it on, and the second time, they were having it out in a fight.

[SugarFree]

So this neighbor tried to have them killed twice and she gets arrested for defending herself?

[gaijin]

The couple looks like they are genetically related to one another

[Zeb]

First cousins is OK, right?

[Brett L]

In TN, I'm pretty sure sharing only one parent is okay.

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

You can legally marry your first cousin in TN.....just sayin'

[Elspeth Flashman]

It _is_ Tennessee. *shrugs*

[Apple]

What the fuck is on her forehead?

[Elspeth Flashman]

The article says she fell in the jail, b/c of being drunk at booking.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

She "fell".

[Pathogen]

What is it with millennial carving plus signs into their foreheads these days.. crazy mixed up kids..

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

God damn it they aren't millennials. The generational divide occurs with those born in the 90's and not sooner. I'm tired of getting lumped in with these buffoons.

[Rich]

The Treasury Department announced it would remove Alexander Hamilton from the $10 bill in 2020 and replace him with a woman.

It was supposed to be the *$20* bill! A woman gets fifty cents for every dollar a man gets!

[invisible furry hand]

Court bans woman from breastfeeding because she got a tattoo

[robc]

Criminals. Each and every one.

I will leave it up to the reader to determibe if I means Aussies or judges.

[Bee Tagger]

Is it a tattoo of a open can of beer over her nipple?

[Fist of Etiquette]

No tit for tat.

[Rich]

+1

[Swiss Servator, Holzhacker]

*opera applause*

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

The 20-year-old, who is known as Ms Jackson for legal reasons if you're nasty,

[JeSuisRaison, moulin ? bois]

The 20-year-old, who is known as Ms Jackson for legal reasons

I'm sorry Ms. Jackson, but I am for real!

[Bee Tagger]

The investment bank Goldman Sachs told its interns to be out of the office by midnight and to return until 7:00a.m.

They have to keep returning over and over again for 7 hours?

[invisible furry hand]

Teenager steals police dog - so the police:

(a) shoot her? or
(b) shoot the dog? or
(c) question her and then release her without charge?

[Juvenile Bluster]

Wrong link, IFH. But I'm guessing both (a) and (b).

[Rich]

Ima say ... (c).

*** checks link ***

[Rich]

Oh, you *zany* ifh!

[invisible furry hand]

Soz.

Correct link

[Rich]

So, what name did you submit? Matt New Welch?

[Swiss Servator, Holzhacker]

He said they had bought dogfood to feed Mr Green, and had let him hang out with "mentally challenged people who bathed in his beauty and vice versa."

Congratulations on having a population as insane as ours.

[Idle Hands]

D) firebomb the entire apartment complex.

[Swiss Servator, Holzhacker]

+1 M.O.V.E.

[WTF]

I do not think your link goes where you think it goes.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Why aren't you giving us this link from that page? (I'm more traumatized by the way Aussies spell traumatized than anything in that book.)

[invisible furry hand]

I don't want you to get any ideas. Not that you could spell them

[Matrix]

Maybe it's just me, but that links to the breastfeeding story.

[Matrix]

Nevermind, I should hit refresh more often. 😛

[In League with the Dark Ones]

Not fair!

You didn't say this happened outside the US!

[Bee Tagger]

The Treasury Department announced it would remove Alexander Hamilton from the $10 bill in 2020 and replace him with a woman.

I have binders full of $10 bills.

[UnCivilServant]

I have a ten-trillion dollar bill. Shame it's in Zimbabwe dollars.

[Ein Barde und ein Holzhacker]

I tried to tell the cashier that my $10 bill self-identified as a $100 bill, but she wouldn't go for it. I wonder if I should sue.

[gaijin]

give that $10 bill another 40 years and it will be $100.

[Idle Hands]

I guess Jack Lew appreciates the irony of keeping Jackson and losing Hamilton. Maybe he's trying to send the fed a message.

[Lord Humungus]

Salon weighs in on the shooting in Charleston:

Charleston church massacre: The violence white America must answer for

White right-wing domestic terrorism is one of the greatest threats to public safety and security in post 9/11 United States of America. Such a plain-spoken fact is verboten in mainstream American public discourse.

As such, there are several phrases and words that are likely to not be used by the corporate news media in the discussions of the Charleston mass murders at the Emanuel Baptist Church.

They include:

1. What is radicalizing white men to commit such acts of domestic terrorism and mass shootings? Are Fox News and the right-wing media encouraging violence?

2. Is something wrong with the white family? Why are their sons and men so violent?

3. What should law enforcement and white politicians do about white crime?

4. Is the Charleston mass shooting just one more sign that America needs sensible and reasonable gun control policies?

5. Where are the white fathers in the white home?

etc etc

[Idle Hands]

Wow that's bold. I hope it comes out that the guy was an atheist.

[John]

They will just pretend otherwise. Eric Rudolph and Tim McVeigh were both atheists. That never stops the baboons at places like Salon from trotting them out as examples of how Christian terrorism is the real threat.

Likely the guy is going to be some nut with a grudge against that church. If not, there is a decent chance he will turn out to be a Muslim. If that happens, Salon and other places will pretend this didn't happen.

Black lives only matter when their deaths further the ideology.

[SugarFree]

Eric Rudolph is not an atheist.

[John]

Yes he is.

In another he refers to people who send him money and books.

"Most of them have, of course, an agenda; mostly born-again Christians looking to save my soul. I suppose the assumption is made that because I'm in here I must be a 'sinner' in need of salvation, and they would be glad to sell me a ticket to heaven, hawking this salvation like peanuts at a ballgame," he wrote.

"I do appreciate their charity, but I could really do without the condescension. They have been so nice I would hate to break it to them that I really prefer Nietzsche to the Bible."

http://www.stonescryout.org/ar.....ph_ch.html

And if you don't believe that source, go look at the statement he gave at his sentencing. It was one long ramble about abortion being murder. He never once mentions God or Christianity.

[SugarFree]

"I was born a Catholic, and with forgiveness I hope to die one."

-Eric Rudolph

[SugarFree]

What he has denied is being part of the Christian Identity movement.

[John]

Where is your source for that quote? Mine comes from a CNN article. The guy says he prefers Nitzsche to the bible. Whatever you want to call him, he sure as hell isn't a Christian. And whatever he is, he did what he did because he thought abortion was murder. He never once mentioned God or Christianity in his sentencing statement.

Show me a link to a real quote from him saying he was a Christian or admit the point. If the quotes you give are real, give a source. Otherwise, how do I know they are true or what their context is. Maybe he decided to become a theist in prison. If so, that doesn't make him any less of an atheist when he committed his crimes.

The point is that he wasn't a Christian terrorist yet he gets listed as one as a matter of faith by people.

[SugarFree]

It's from an 11 page statement Rudolph released to reporters.

And he quoted the Bible at his sentencing.

[John]

REad his actual statement.

http://www.npr.org/templates/s.....Id=4600480

It has a single reference to the bible. Yet your link says it was "laced with bible statements. No bullshit. It had one. Here it is

Will you say that there is no reason to raise a hand against your own government, that such is forbidden by Romans 13. All governments everywhere, including our own, have their roots in usurpation. Two hundred and twenty five years ago our ancestors overthrew their government because they were not being represented for purposes of taxation. Tell me you good patriots, is the causus belli of "taxation without representation" more weighty than the deliberate murder of 50 million people? You lie, and your lies will find you out.

That is it. And he is not endorsing it. He is saying "even by your own standards you are lying".

And never once in that statement does he say he is a Catholic. Your link says he did. The NPR copy of his actual statement makes no mention of that. So that is from what I can tell a made up quote.

Read his actual statement and show me where he ever claims religion as the reason why he did this because I don't see it.

[SugarFree]

He also quotes Matthew.

"I was born a Catholic, and with forgiveness I hope to die one." This is from the postscript to his confession after he was questioned about aspects of it.

He's a Christian, John. This strange delusion that he isn't is just people trying to convince themselves that only Muslims do bad things. And, of course, the outright lie that Eddie likes to peddle that anti-abortion fanaticism somehow isn't rooted in religious beliefs.

[John]

No SF,

I am fully aware that Christians do bad things. I however don't have the deep desire to beleive that Rudoph was one and thus don't suffer from the confirmation bias you do. He never once gives Christianity as a justification for his doing what he did and he says he is more into Nietzsche than the bible.

He is not a Christian by any reasonable definition of the term and to the extent he is, he most certainly didn't see his religion, whatever it is as a justification for his crimes.

Don't be discouraged SF. The guy in Charleston may turn out to be a Christian. If he is, I won't deny it and you can orgasm with joy at finally having your proof Christians are the real threat. Don't worry, I won't deny you. The problem is Rudolph just isn't what you hope he is. Maybe this guy will be.

[SugarFree]

If he is, I won't deny it and you can orgasm with joy at finally having your proof Christians are the real threat.

Oh look, something I never said.

You always go to putting words in other people's mouth when you get backed into a corner.

But yes, no true Scotsman would do anything like this, so you must be right.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"And, of course, the outright lie that Eddie likes to peddle that anti-abortion fanaticism somehow isn't rooted in religious beliefs."

Do you have a link for that?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

That's all right, SugarFree, I know you don't have any evidence.

At this point, a sane person would say, "gosh, I'm sorry, I was mistaken." But I'm not going to hold my breath.

All that matters to you is that the Eddie in your head said something like this, and you don't need bourgeois evidence to prove it, your *feelings* are sufficient.

[SugarFree]

Um, because whenever it comes up you post a link to a tiny group of pro-life atheists and think that proves your point. Or that you sputter and spit every time I bring it up.

Poor Eddie, so upset that someone pays attention to the bullshit is tries to get away with.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Again, could you provide a link?

Just to remind you, the view you imputed to me was that "anti-abortion fanaticism somehow isn't rooted in religious beliefs."

Now, I thought you were referring to murderers who claimed pro-life views - and that you thought I denied their frequent religious motives - but now I realize that to you even peaceful pro-lifers are fanatics. If so, I apologize for misunderstanding your point.

To repeat what I've said before, I would *love* to able to claim that prolife views are solely a function of Christianity, in which case I would use that fact in *defense* of the Christian faith. But, alas, I can't claim that, since there are in fact non-religious prolifers.

There are, in fact, prolife atheists, which I notice you didn't bother to deny.

And of course the prolife laws of the 19th century were promoted by the American Medical Association. I'm sure most doctors at the time were religious, but their activism wasn't motivated by religion but by what they deemed their professional duty to protect human life.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

The thing is, if I said compassion for the poor was a Christian monopoly, as evidenced by the religious motivations of Christians who cared for the poor, you would rightly denounce my bad logic. That's because you're not invested in discrediting compassion for the poor (you're not, are you?).

But because you want to discredit prolife views, you reason that since religious prolifers are generally motivated by religion, therefore no prolifer ever has any other motive.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Not for nothing, but catholics make the most entertaining atheists.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

None of that makes him an atheist. He sounds like an anti-organized religion person to me.

[Zeb]

Where does it say that he is an atheist? Not much of a Christian, to go by that quote, but that doesn't make him an atheist. Not that I care. Atheists commit horrible crimes sometimes, just like members of religions do.

[John]

Zeb,

I don't see how you could prefer Nietsche to the bible and not be an atheist. The guy is a nut, so who knows.

Beyond that, you are right in that it doesn't matter what he is. He is a nut with his own motivations that reflect on no one but him. I would consider him an atheist. Maybe you and Sugar Free think he is still a theist. It is a question of semantics. Whatever he is, he is most certainly not a Christian, or wasn't when he committed his crimes, and did not commit his crimes in the name of religion. He has never once claimed he did. So he is not a Christian terrorist by any reasonable definition of the term. Yet, he is constantly listed as one.

Even if my quote is fraudulent and SF's are not, that still doesn't make him a Christian terrorist since he didn't commit his crimes in the name of his religion. Calling him a "Christian terrorist" is no more correct than calling him a "Browns fan terrorist" if it turned out that he was a lifetime Browns fan.

[Zeb]

I don't know what he is. And I agree that it is awful that people always try to fit these violent assholes into the Christian fundamentalist mold when it is rarely the actual case. Christianity doesn't have the terrorism problem that Islam has and these people are really stretching to pretend it does.

[Stormy Dragon]

You know John, there's a billions of religious people out there who don't read the Bible at all. *gasp* I know, shocking isn't it?

[Lord Humungus]

I preferred the movie.

[Illocust]

If the picture of the suspect in the NY Times article is anything to go by I think the guy is a light skinned black guy not a white guy.

[gaijin]

that was my first thought on seeing the image too. False flag distraction if you are particularly paranoid

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Rachael Dolezal's brother?

[Brochettaward]

Salon doesn't care about your facts. They spit on them.

[Zeb]

White like Zimmerman.

[Spoonman.]

I think it's the beret that makes one's mind think he's black. I expect all the black people that saw him can be generally trusted to identify whether he's white or black.

[Zeb]

Sometimes it's hard to tell. Could be an octaroon. Which counts as black if you are a race obsessed dickhead.

[Ein Barde und ein Holzhacker]

Voting Democrat?

[Illocust]

Have there been any witness reports released yet? We are still at the mass speculation and rumor phase of the media.

[Apple]

What's up with his nose? Is wearing some Groucho or Humpty Hump fake plastic nose?

[Restor-woodchipper-as]

Was it a gun-free zone? If so then we obviously need better laws to prevent unlawful acts by unlawful people.

Where were the cops? Aren't they there to protect people from unlawful acts committed by unlawful people?

[Ein Barde und ein Holzhacker]

"1. What is radicalizing white men to commit such acts of domestic terrorism and mass shootings? Are Fox News and the right-wing media encouraging violence?"

I don't know maybe being told you're the devil by Progressive SJW asswipes like yourself 24/7 has an effect on people. Maybe retarded identity politics just turn people against one another and promote more hate. Maybe all you progressive assholes can fuck yourselves with a metal woodchipper.

[John]

yeah, suppose for the sake of argument it is everything that the Progs dream it is; an angry white male. Gee maybe fifty years of using the mass culture to vilify and hate white males has had an effect? Who could have seen that coming?

[fish]

The Ahab like quest for Sailers "Great White Defendant"....it's what drives them!

[MoriahJovan]

They will pull out that old chesnut, "Correlation does not equal causation (but in this case, we see no evidence of correlation, either so FYTW and FOAD.")

I am the mother of a white male. Let me tell you how frightened I am for his future.

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

So we are like, VICTIMS? Yes! Finally!

[Ein Barde und ein Holzhacker]

I know I keep harping on this theme, but I really believe that our current education system that teaches students that white men are responsible for all the evil in the world really fucks up some people. It encourages minorities to hate whites, but it also encourages whites to hate minorities.

I mean if you're a young white male who constantly hears that message, and the only message you hear saying otherwise is coming from some skinhead asshole then you're going to be prone to support that skinhead asshole.

Or maybe you turn that hate inward and become someone like Rachel Dolezal. Does anyone doubt that she is an extremely damaged individual?

The left has done nothing but promote a ton of hate these last couple of decades. They've turned kids who would have grown up normal into racists assholes, or self-hating twats and I hope there is a special place in hell for all the fucking leftists promoting their identity politics, and white privilege, etc.

[Rhywun]

The left has done nothing but promote a ton of hate these last couple of decades.

Oh, it's been longer than that.

[WTF]

So, I guess since Salon believes in collective responsibility, they also believe that Black America must answer for any and all crimes committed by black people? Or Hispanics, Asians, etc.?

[Zeb]

Such a plain-spoken fact is verboten in mainstream American public discourse.

Not verboten. Just wrong.

When I heard about the shooting this morning, I was pretty sure I was soon going to read something just like this. So, thanks.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

It's so verboten to blame right-wingers and white people for violence that it was virtually guarunteed that every major liberal publication (comprising about 90% of all publications) would make this accusation.

I love it when liberals pretend to be the underdog, the oppressed minority being crushed under the weight of right-winger leave-you-alone-ism.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

Why are their sons and men so violent?

Because there is never any violence in black or Hispanic families. Never.

[Zeb]

The answer is because some men from every culture and race are violent.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Some more than others.

[Chip the Chipper]

I bet their reader loves that article.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Nice.

[Certified Public Asshat]

5. Where are the white fathers in the white home?

Teaching their kids to be hateful racists. We must remove white fathers from their homes.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

He was not described as "white": the American news media is much more likely to racially mark black and brown suspects in crimes, and to include their racial description (or religious/ethnic as in the ubiquitous "Arab" or "Muslim" "terrorist."

Not really. I have seen way too many articles where the suspect's clothes are described, but any mention of race is carefully avoided.

This from CNN:

"The only reason someone would walk into a church and shoot people that were praying is hate," Charleston Mayor Joe Riley said.

Not really. An Indian Christian man shot up a bunch of people at a church after killing his estranged wife. All victims were Indian Christians.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

"Not really. An Indian Christian man shot up a bunch of people at a church after killing his estranged wife. All victims were Indian Christians."

Which doesn't contradict what the Charleston Mayor said. He said the only reason you'd shoot innocent praying people is hate, not that it was racial hate.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

The implication of what he said and the article's narrative is racial hate. That's what I was going with. Of course, killing your spouse or significant other is an act inspired by hate - momentary or long-lasting, but the media narrative for this shooting is racial hate.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I don't know the details, but I'm going to guess it was probably hate of some kind, racial or non-racial, but hate nonetheless.

Insanity would also be a candidate.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

4. Is the Charleston mass shooting just one more sign that America needs sensible and reasonable gun control policies?

Like allowing guns in churches, so people can immediately respond with force instead of dialing 911 to call for posthumous medical examinations?

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

White right-wing domestic terrorism is one of the greatest threats to public safety and security in post 9/11 United States of America. Such a plain-spoken fact is verboten in mainstream American public discourse.

Blaming whitey and non-liberal/progtard/socialist is not mainstream "discourse"? That'll come as news to everyone outside of the liberal bubble.

[Rich]

Nice link for the Goldman Sachs.

/sarc

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Re: Hamilton being booted of the $10 in the WaPo article:

"...Even President Obama ? father to two daughters, it should be noted ? has weighed in. During a speech in Kansas City, Mo., in July, he said he had received a letter from a 9-year-old girl asking him why there were no women on American money.

"I think there should be more women on a Dollar/coin for the United States becuas if there where no woman there wouldnt be men," wrote Sofia (with a few misspellings).

"Obama responded by calling her suggestion "a pretty good idea."

Obama: Harvey Birdman - Attorney at Law.

I'm telling you. It's a bloody intellectual Dark Age. But nobody listens to me.

[Florida Man]

*Looks at Susan B Anthony and sacagawea coin*

Well I guess that never happened.

[Ein Barde und ein Holzhacker]

Does anyone else think that Sacagawea was an odd choice? I mean she's mostly famous for being a part of the Louis & Clark expedition. Why wasn't Louis & Clark on the coin?

[Florida Man]

Well...shut up!
/sacahawea supporter

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

Because she was kind of the biggest badass of the whole expedition.

[WTF]

Yes, women should be on all currency. Because vagina.

[Rich]

How about on all *coins*? Because curves.

[Atanarjuat]

Well, our politicians are certainly idiots who pose as intellectuals. But in this case, I think Obama is just hoping to get people talking about something other than his massive incompetence. And it's been a while since he's thrown a bone to the leftists.

[Ein Barde und ein Holzhacker]

It's just more identity politics. It's all they have.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

Well, our politicians are certainly idiots who pose as intellectuals. But in this case, I think Obama is

What???

Obama has advanced degrees from elite institutions, and has pieces of paper to wave around and show that he is an intellectual.

Schooling = Education.

Our POTUS spent so many years in school, yet you don't believe he is an intellectual?

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Even if he were an "intellectual", that hardly indicates the possession of a sound intellect. Universities are filled to the brim with intellectuals who couldn't reason themselves out of a wet paper bag.

[RAHeinlein]

"The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history."

- George Orwell

[Lord Humungus]

Small U.S. frackers face extinction amid drilling drought

Founded in November 2011 with a loan of around $35 million, the Fort Worth, Texas-based company was by 2014 making nearly that much in monthly revenues, providing the crews and machinery needed by companies including ExxonMobil (XOM.N) to frack oil and gas wells from North Dakota to Texas.

Executives flew to meetings across the country in a Falcon 50 private jet, and entertained customers at their suite at the Texas Rangers baseball stadium in Arlington. The firm would soon move into a 22,000-square-foot office on the 12th floor of Burnett Plaza, one of Fort Worth's most prestigious office buildings.

Eighteen months on, however, without work and unable to meet monthly loan payments, GoFrac has closed its doors, its ambitions gutted by a steep dive in oil prices. Of the 550-odd employees on the payroll at the beginning of this year, only six remain.

[John]

It is the nature of the oil business, boom and bust. If you don't like risking going broke for the chance at enormous fortune, don't go into the oil business.

[Brett L]

Seems like they should have saved some of that money for the inevitable downturn.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

We need price controls on oil! Make sure everyone pays through the nose for oil products, for the jarbs...

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

Well who wants odd employees, anyway?

[invisible furry hand]

It's not fair that people can buy stuff online instead of in our shops, whine retailers - so let's force online retailers or credit card companies to charge sales tax.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

Welcome, underground black market!

[Pathogen]

Interstate sales tax, because.. "Commerce Clause"..

[Lord Humungus]

Why Is Obama's Human Rights Report 115 Days Late?

Persons with a more suspicious (or perhaps more realistic) bent of mind have a different explanation: Iran. That is, the Obama administration does not wish to make public an honest report on human rights abuses in Iran before the nuclear deal is done. The continuing delay makes that explanation more and more persuasive.

The argument that this is so important to Mr. Obama and Mr. Kerry that Kerry and only Kerry must preside strikes me as nonsense. Neither man has paid much attention to human rights while in office, human rights budgets are declining, and human rights advocates write constantly about the diminishing U.S. interest in the subject.

[VG Zaytsev]

As crazy as Trump is, he's absolutely correct on the ineptness of O's negotiations with Iran.

[Illocust]

Anybody look at that Times article? The picture of the suspect isn't of a white guy.

[Illocust]

Times article about the 9 person church shooting.

[Rich]

Looks like a white androgynous kid with a codpiece.

[Illocust]

Maybe I'm wrong and desire to watch the race baiters choke on their story is coloring my vision, but that guy looks paper bag color not white. I'll give you androgynous though.

[Rich]

Not *again* with "The Dress"?!

[Swiss Servator, Holzhacker]

Looks so to me. ?

[WTF]

Hard to tell, since there is no way of knowing how accurate the coloration is from the surveillance camera.

[Illocust]

Yeah, that's the only thing keeping me from making comments on sites that aren't reason. I don't need to give anyone more ammo if it turns out to be an off color camera.

[Lord Humungus]

The sun is _intense_ in Charleston, so he could be a well-tanned white dude. Or, as already mentioned, bad camera color balance.

[Pathogen]

Too much bronzer..

[ant1sthenes]

There's a surviving witness that he spoke to directly. This is likely exactly what it seems (angry white racist). The fact that the truth will be empowering to assholes doesn't mean we should blind ourselves to it.

[ant1sthenes]

On a lighter note, I tried to get a transcript of a report on this story from the the WSJ, and it made me think of some of you (well, mainly AC).

"...we believe this was a ...police are hunting a man who opened fire during a press service in Charleston killing million people we are looking for a white male ...approximately twenty one years old ...Sandy blonde hair ...and the ...he obviously is extremely ...dangerous amongst those killed was the church's pasta state Senate to come into pink day according to the Associated Press ...the forty one year old was a married father of two ...who was elected to the state adults age twenty three ...elite but Goebbels ...that they ...the most intolerable ...and and believable ...the ...shooting took place at the Emmanuel any any Chia Ching historic African American religious life that traces its roots back to eighteen sixty ...nearby ...cost is congregated on the street Hosking GoldCore ay ...ay ay ...ay ay ay the the ...I want to go there ...they have ...been statements give them a Nikki Haley of South Carolina's to pray for the victims' ...families ...and to cry on its own religious places I I ...the ...Buffalo community organizer Christopher case and said he felt set in the shootings were ration the money to pay "

[ant1sthenes]

"police are treating the incident as a hate crime ... the helium when told to ... there will be investigated isn't a comedy FBI would be here regardless because of the size and scope of the investigation ... let them know that my ... thumb on ... the last year"

[John]

http://www.latimes.com/local/c.....tml#page=1

This is an interesting story. The LA Sheriffs' office switched service weapons from a Beretta 9mm with a safety to Smith and Wesson 9mm with a smaller grip, easier trigger pull, and no safety. The reason they did this was women were failing to qualify at the police academy with the Beretta. Their hands were not big enough and they didn't have the strength to pull the trigger fast enough to qualify with the Beretta. So they threatened to sue, disparate impact you know.

That is great and all because you know, girls can. The result has been a doubling in accidental shootings by the LA County Sheriff's office. Isn't civil rights law grand? I am sure those innocent people who were accidentally shot and in some cases no doubt killed were happy to be mamed or die so girls can.

[Florida Man]

They should go back to revolvers so we don't get so much "spray & pray".

[Restor-woodchipper-as]

Stupid choice of firearm. Just have one with a safety.

[John]

I agree. But women can't handle a weapon with a safety. So it is the public's job to die so that women can serve as cops.

[Restor-woodchipper-as]

I know you aren't being serious - clearly women can handle a firearm that has a safety. The department just made a shitty choice of firearm for them. They actually believe their own bullshit about being highly trained professionals.

[John]

They have to handle it in a tactical course. And some women can but others, with very small hands can't. As I say below, you have to be able to flip the safety off as you raise the weapon to fire. If the pistol has a big grip and you have really small hands, you can't do that. Sure, you can shoot it at the range where you can flip the safety off with your other hand before you fire it. You cannot however pass a tactical course with it. And that is the problem.

The hard trigger pull is another problem. Even if you can get the safety off as you raise the weapon, if you don't have a large enough and strong enough finger, you can't fire the weapon fast enough to pass the course.

This is not the result of the Sheriff's department being stupid. This is the result of society's refusal to accept that maybe some women should not be cops.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

And then there's the problem of lady brains. 1/3rd the size of a man's.

[Mickey Rat]

More if certain elements in society refusing to accept that the difference between the bell curve distributions for physical size and strength between the sexes has practical implications in the real world that cannot be ignored like they are in theory or in fiction. Reality is a bit sexist in that regard.

[lafe.long]

They have to handle it in a tactical course. And some women can but others, with very small hands can't.

+1 Lana "Yeti Hands" Kane

[Florida Man]

Your wife doesn't shoot John? My wife has no problems managing the safety on her AR.

[John]

My wife has very small hands. And she certainly can shoot a Beretta. But it takes more than shooting to pass out of a police academy. They have to do tactical shooting. And if you have small hands and the weapon has a large grip and a hard trigger pull, you are not going to do very well with it. If your hand is too small to easily reach up and flip the safety off as you raise the weapon, you won't pass.

[Pathogen]

Get her a giant "we're #1" foam hand.. she should be able to touch both trigger and safety with that..

[WTF]

"It's a hell of a price to pay for being stylish."
- Harry Callahan

[Florida Man]

I never got why he carried a 44, but put light loads in it. Just carry the 357 and save yourself some money man.
/I know it's fantasy but I can't help myself.

[UnCivilServant]

Because he already owned the .44?

[Florida Man]

He said the .38 would bounce off windshields and then says the .357 is a fine weapon, then why buy a .44 Harry?!?

[WTF]

Because it's bigger. And then he could tell the bad guys: "This is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world".

[John]

Because the barrel of a .44 looks much more intimidating looking at it from the business end than a .357 could be one reason.,

[Florida Man]

I know it's just a movie. Things like that just stick in my head. As far as intimidation goes, I don't want to get show with anything.

[Florida Man]

Shot.

[John]

Even though it has lighter loads, it still has the bigger shell. So it would be a bigger shell traveling at a slower velocity. That would have just as much stopping power as the .357 but would be less likely to go right through someone or something or hit an innocent person.

So there is one good reason.

[Galactic Chipper Cdr Lytton]

Hell, I have big hands and the 92FS/M9 feels like an uncomfortable brick in my hands and although I've warmed up to it over time, there's a lot of other pistols that fit better. Not to mention more modern ones with replaceable backstraps.

[Fist of Etiquette]

According to the United Nations there were nearly 60 million refugees around the world at the end of last year.

Rearranging deck chairs.

[Lord Humungus]

In the Warty-mobile?

How did I get home last night? My bizarre, panicked life as a blackout drinker

I'd had blackouts since the first time I got drunk. If you've never had a blackout, then you might not understand the singular horror of waking up to discover that time is missing. People often confuse blackout with passing out, but the experiences are quite different. A person who is passed out is unconscious. A person in a blackout is very much awake: Walking, talking, singing bad karaoke. You keep going, even as your long-term memory shuts down. Sometimes my blackouts were only a few minutes, a temporary outage, but a few lasted hours, and the first 10 seconds of a hungover Sunday morning were a checklist of panic: Did I remember how I got home? Was anyone lying beside me? Did I have any cuts or bruises? I woke to strange data sets. Orange juice on the counter, refrigerator door flapping open. My vibrator tossed on the living room couch. Once I woke up with a half-eaten corn dog in my hand and a smear of mustard across my face. But I was starving, so I ate it.

[Warty]

And you may ask yourself
Well...how did I get here?

[A special place in JW's Hell]

This is not my beautiful house.

[Ein Barde und ein Holzhacker]

Oh come on!,Who hasn't had mornings like that?

[Idle Hands]

relevant.

[Rich]

That's great! Thanks!

A friend used to relate a story about how, after a night of heavy drinking, he awoke beside the ugliest woman he'd ever seen, who greetied him with "Goooood Morning, TIGER!!"

[Lord Humungus]

A guy I knew once woke up in a bed at a party - well some time after the party had finished... he had no clothes on and a used condom still on his member. He had no recollection of what or who he had slept with.

Animal, vegetable, or mineral?

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

Animal, vegetable, or mineral?

Still the rapist.

/radfem

[fish]

Maybe all three!

[Tejicano]

A buddy of mine told me about a co-worker (in investment banking) who woke up one Sunday afternoon in his apartment, with his last memory of going out drinking on Friday evening, and finding his passport in his pocket - with stamps from two different countries over that weekend.

[WoodchipperFocus(ed)]

Hilarious.

[SugarFree]

"Did I agree to have sex with anyone I can now charge with rape?"

[LynchPin1477]

If you're really prone to blackouts and find them so horrifying, maybe, I dunno....don't drink very much?

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

It's why I stopped drinking...

151.

My head would go to sleep and my body would go out and do... stuff.

[bacon-magic]

No, just get a bodycam...

[Mickey Rat]

I guess it is not horrifying enough to cut down on the alcohol intake in one night.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

That explains where Salon writers come from - serious, brain damaged alcoholics.

"Once I woke up with a half-eaten corn dog in my hand and a smear of mustard across my face. But I was starving, so I ate it."

This girl sounds fun.

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

Ah, Honey, that's not mustard....

[Warty]

Police in Cleveland are investigating the fatal shooting of a dog by an officer.

Cleveland, Mississippi. FOR FUCK'S SAKE ED

[Juvenile Bluster]

That one was obvious. I mean, it's not like the Cleveland, Ohio police would give a damn.

[Swiss Servator, Holzhacker]

More people and things would have been shot, too.

[John]

First the NBA finals and now this. They always kick you when you are down Warty.

[JMC1607]

NYT reminds us of the REAL terror threat: right wing extremists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06.....share&_r=0

[John]

They are drooling with glee over this. Normal people are horrified and sad. Progressives are happier than on Christmas morning. God they are fucking evil, sick people.

[Idle Hands]

I'm still at a loss how anyone with a modicum of education could consider the National Socialist movement in this country right wing in the american sense.

[Restor-woodchipper-as]

Well, you answered your own question. They don't have a modicum of education, just a lot of indoctrination.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

When you claim anyone you disagree with is right wing it's easy. I disagree with libertarians therefore they are right wing. I disagree with Nazis therefore they are right wing.

This has the benefit of allowing you to claim all your political opponents are somehow aiding and abetting violence because they're all 'right-wing' even thought he various groups you've classed as right-wing have nothing in common.

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

Another savage right winger..... http://topfullhdwallpapers.com/cristiano-ronaldo/

[Lord Humungus]

Greece Has Already Cost Investors $897 Billion This Year

With debt negotiations close to breaking down, some officials view Thursday's meeting of finance ministers as a last chance to seal a Greek bailout. Any resolution would be good news to fund managers who were expecting to enjoy the fruits of Mario Draghi's stimulus program in 2015.

"It's like a TV show with a really bad storyline that just drags on season after season," said Rosamunde Price, who helps oversee about $14 billion as chief investment strategist at Seven Investment Management in London. "The saga is muddling everything and getting in the way of what was supposed to be Europe's true turnaround year."

As the region's equity volatility reached a record high versus the U.S., investors increasingly turned to cash. Greece's ASE Index, which was among the best gainers in western Europe this quarter through May, is now this year's worst performing in the world.

[LynchPin1477]

Greece's ASE Index, which was among the best gainers in western Europe this quarter through May

I realize it probably had few places to go but up, but seriously???

[Jordan]

If you're dumb enough to invest in Greece, then you deserve it.

[Mike M.]

In gambling, they call it "chasing".

[bacon-magic]

Pretty sad that the birthplace of Democracy has turned into a prime example of why Socialism is retarded.

[Igor]

When 50%+1 has the ability to plunder the 50%-1, Socialusm is one of the perfectly logical results

[LynchPin1477]

I have no problem with changing up who is on the currency. I'd even like to see us get away from people and more towards moments/ideas (how about printing each of the bill of rights on the $5 in rotating fashion?)

But of all the people to get rid of, why Hamilton? Give Jackson the boot.

[Juvenile Bluster]

I thought about that, but then realized it's so they can ALSO give Jackson the boot in a few years. Better excuse to do that than if they did Jackson first.

[Idle Hands]

But think of all the jokes in movies that nobody will get if they change them.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Why have faces at all? And while I'm on it, why sing national anthems at sporting events?

But I would exempt Chicago at Blackhawks games. That's fun to watch.

[LynchPin1477]

Exactly. I'd rather see historically important events, or ideas, than individual people. And how about we get away from just government buildings and show other examples of great American architecture or art? Or maybe the natural wonders?

I don't really mind the National Anthem too much, though. What's nice about the Star Spangled Banner is that it really isn't a song about the U.S. government. And most non-libertarians really do yearn to be part of something bigger. In fact, they need it.

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

How about a mattress.....that's art now and a nationally recognized symbol, right?

[Swiss Servator, Holzhacker]

*cheers loudly for 2 minutes*

[Brochettaward]

I personally am not fond of removing Madison to put a women on. Notice how its just some women. No one knows who it will be or what she actually did.

I'm surprised it isn't Andrew Jackson being replaced, though.

[LynchPin1477]

Madison isn't on any currency as far as I'm aware. If we are going to have Founders on at all, that is a huge fucking oversight.

[Brochettaward]

Yes, *Hamilton.

[In League with the Dark Ones]

The 10 was the next bill up for an update.

[Jordan]

Yeah, stop immortalizing politicians (even the ones who were largely good). Put historical scenes, icons, natural features/animals, etc on the currency.

[Lord Humungus]

amateur coin collector here - the old coins were largely women - idealized Liberty - usually rather beautiful women with a few exceptions.

ugh - who would want to fight for her?
http://www.coinfacts.com/half_.....ittman.JPG

versus:
http://blog.goldeneaglecoin.co.....dollar.jpg

[LynchPin1477]

ugh - who would want to fight for her?

John?

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

Booooooobs.

Sorry. Booooooobs.

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

'mountains majesty'? Yes, definitely an American icon.

[SugarFree]

"Sometimes, Liberty must eat an entire sheet cake."

[John]

Here is who should be on the $10 bill. That is a reason to love the country and want to fight for it.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i.....93&cad=rja

[Zeb]

Sexy Lady Liberty. Yeah.

[Galactic Chipper Cdr Lytton]

As much as I like the Army Birthday, it's also Flag Day. Let's go back to April 6th as Army Day. With hot strawberry blondes as the symbol models.

[Zeb]

Yes, go back to that.

I rather like the walking liberty of the early 20th century half dollars, though they didn't wear very well.

[Lord Humungus]

I like the Morgan dollar lady liberty though I'm a real sucker for the early cent

Morgan
http://static-numista.com/cata...../g1598.jpg

1802 cent
http://songsofpraise.org/image....._large.jpg

[Zeb]

I do like the Morgan too. Not quite as beautiful as walking liberty, though, in my opinion.

I do like the old large cents (though your link won't show me anything). Somewhere my family has a pretty nice collection of them.

[A special place in JW's Hell]

If it isn't Lobster Girl, they can get royally fucked.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

how about printing each of the bill of rights on the $5 in rotating fashion?

This will be a non-starter with progressives.

They want the 1st amendment modified to abolish people from speaking when come together in groups (aka corporations).

They want to repeal the 2nd amendment in its entirety. (Don't believe their lies. They really would if they could, but all they can do right now is regulate civilian arms out of existence.)

[Lord Humungus]

Blumenthal's E-Mail to Hillary on Spinning Qaddafi's Fall

Although Hillary Clinton prefers to describe Sidney Blumenthal as nothing but "an old friend," NR has obtained an exclusive copy of one of the now-infamous e-mails he sent Clinton on the war in Libya, and it suggests otherwise. The e-mail, which Blumenthal provided to Benghazi Committee investigators earlier this week, shows him advising Clinton on a most delicate matter: How she should respond to the fall of Libyan dictator Moammar Qaddafi.

Blumenthal e-mailed a list of talking points to Clinton the day after rebel forces captured Tripoli, prefaced by a congratulatory statement exhorting the former presidential candidate to make sure she received credit for the U.S. intervention in Libya. The message was only recently provided by Blumenthal to the congressional panel investigating the Benghazi terrorist attacks, despite Clinton's previous assurance that she had turned over "all" her correspondence pertaining to Libya.

[Igor]

Blumenthal is to Hillary as Kuato is to George.

[SugarFree]

"Hillary... start the re-ac-tor..."

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

"I am proud to stand here on the soil of a free Libya," HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

[Medical Physics Guy]

So someone so gross Obama actually banned him from the government is working HRC like a marionette. Yikes.

[Lord Humungus]

Utah university adds texting lane to stairwell

The slowest texters, stay right please.

Actually all texters are being asked to stay to the right of the stairwell at Utah Valley University, which has painted lines on a presumably busy stairwell to divide runners, walkers and texters, according to an AJC.com post.

A university official told WVBT that the lines are "more aesthetic than functional," and that most who use the stairs aren't following the posted lanes.

[Rich]

Relevant.

[Mickey Rat]

Surprising that people who are oblivious to their surroundings ignore lines on stairs, is it not?

[Mazakon]

Link

3rd Eye blind singer: "I f-ing hate libertarians. A white dude standing on a bridge made with other people's $$$ going, Don't Tread on Me."

[Idle Hands]

I wish you would jump off that ledge my friend.

[lap83]

+1

[Jordan]

Nice.

[Ein Barde und ein Holzhacker]

I'm just glad it's mostly bands that suck that spew this garbage.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

I fucking hate progressives. A white chick wearing Adidas shoes and fiddling with her I-Pad saying 'I hate corporations.'

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

3rd Eye blind singer: "I f-ing hate libertarians.

Hate is not a family value, a$$hole.

[SugarFree]

Are there any good bands that hate us?

[John]

Or any shitty bands that have had a hit or anyone has cared about in the last five years?

[SugarFree]

Oh, no. The rush fans are coming to find us, aren't they...

Run, John!

[Medical Physics Guy]

Sleater Kinney probably hates us

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

3rd Eye blind singer: "I f-ing hate libertarians. A white dude standing on a bridge made with other people's $$$ going, Don't Tread on Me."

Also, why the f*** do they always assume:

1) white
2) dude

It's only white right-wingers that stereotype. The left is oh-so-noble.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

If we pursue the logic of his example, then brown people standing on a bridge made with other people's $$$ going, "Tread on that guy and build me another bridge." I guess he thinks non-whites make better servile creatures of the state. What a racist.

[A special place in JW's Hell]

That guy on the bridge really needs to learn to love the regular beatings that come with a modern civilization.

That really is the entire argument.

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

Awwww, now my feelinz is hurt.....

[Lord Humungus]

Hazmat scare at Wash. college found to involve pudding

The News Tribune reports that an envelope with powder and an unusual message was found Tuesday at Clover Park Technical College in Lakewood. The item was left on a student's vehicle.

West Pierce Fire & Rescue spokeswoman Jenny Weekes says the message said something like, "Thank you for your service."

Multiple agencies sent emergency crews. They shut down one building because a campus security worker had taken the envelope inside.

The powder turned out to be instant pudding mix.

[Juvenile Bluster]

$240 worth of pudding?

[fish]

$240 worth of pudding?

Must be really good pudding.

[Juvenile Bluster]

Sigh. I hoped I wouldn't be the only one to remember this.

http://www.dailymotion.com/vid.....udding_fun

[fish]

Nope....taint see that before!

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

Direct quote from a super sized street walker...."How about a little panty puddin'?". Errr...no thanks?

[PBR Streetgang]

Awwwww yeah!!! Barry and Levon...

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

If you don't eat yer meat, ye can't have any pudding!

How can ye have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat.

[WTF]

Bill Cosby has been named as a person of interest.

[Rich]

In New York City] concern is growing about these impostors: men dressed in robes pretending to be Chinese monks.

Is there no end to this Rachael Dolezal madness?

[invisible furry hand]

You've got them too? We've had them for a few years and they get pretty pushy. Just yell "toga party!" at them and they'll scatter

[Rich]

Or "Bad Karma!"

[invisible furry hand]

5 Weird Realities When Scientologists Run Your School

Number 4 is excellent

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

Number 4 reminds me of the Indian-American valedictorian kid who was not allowed to give a speech by his scientology government school.

But government good, scientology bad... mmmkay?

[SugarFree]

The lines for the ICBM ride are just way too long.

[Lord Humungus]

+1 Major 'King' Kong

[lap83]

The Treasury Department announced it would remove Alexander Hamilton from the $10 bill in 2020 and replace him with a woman.

As soon as they find a famous libertarian woman, so they can make her the face of everything wrong with the economy.

[invisible furry hand]

+1,000

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

I'm fine with removing Hamilton, but I would have preferred Jackson, like the petition wanted. Wonder why the Treasury decided to keep Jackson, despite the uproar?

Oh, FYTW. I forgot.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Or because he was a Democrat?

Just guessing.

[Zeb]

Not really the right kind of democrat.

On the other hand, people are fucking morons when it comes to party politics.

[Mickey Rat]

Jackson founded the Democrats as a reformation of Jefferson's Democratic-Republicans.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

Is there some kind of extraordinary threat level today? The poor bastards that work at the Pentagon were getting an extra ass raping bag screening this morning.

[Mike M.]

It's all because of that shitheel down in Charleston.

[SugarFree]

The Pentagon registered itself as a traditional African-American church for tax breaks and zoning variances.

[Rich]

Well, the building *has* been out in the sun for a while.

[invisible furry hand]

Because rape culture, obviously

[Rich]

You're on a roll today. Glad your connection is working well.

[invisible furry hand]

Ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fuckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

(Thanks mate)

[Idle Hands]

Kind of like a clown.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

I'd be pissed if I had to go through a security clearance process, show my badge at every entrance, yet still get my bag screened just for trying to get into the office.

[Don'tTreadOnMeChipper]

Kinda makes it hard to smuggle in the booze, doesn't it?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I'll tell you one thing, whomever replaces Hamilton on the ten, it will still only be worth about seven bucks.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

it will still only be worth about

IT???

You cisgendered heterosexual white male have officially shown your privilege and OBJECTIFIED a she into an it.

Love,

Microaggression Department
Language Police
Progtopia
USA

[lap83]

Research shows that dads can be allowed to play with children
Sigh, fine. But only for five minutes then it's back to the safe space

[Rich]

They said things like, "My dad gives me encouragement to do things," or, "My dad tells me he thinks I can do well."

"My dad tickles me until I pee myself."

[Zeb]

What the fuck is this? It's like I'm from a different planet than these people.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Just shows you where we're at.

[John]

The research could offer dads more leeway in their play with children, suggesting there's no need for moms or others to worry when fathers stir up or challenge their children?as long as the kids are happy and having fun. Also, dads sometimes can stop a child's fussing or crying through joking or physical play.

Seriously, what the hell kind of moron needs to be told by an expert it is okay to let their husband play with their kids? What in the living hell is wrong with people?

[sarcasmic]

Helicopter mothers.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Social justice warrior mothers

[Zeb]

I just can't imagine the obnoxious, overbearing cunt who knows the kids are having fun with dad, yet frets that it might not be exactly the right kind of fun.

[SugarFree]

I know one of those. "Cunt" isn't a strong enough word.

[Mickey Rat]

Someone who loses their mind at the thought of a skinned knee?

[DaveSs]

Its because us dads are prone to rough-house play.

Rough-house play encourages aggressiveness and violence.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

That's some good science there: it's fine to play with a kid so long as the kid is having fun. And jokes are an effective way to lighten someone's mood.

Give these researchers more grant money!

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

My mom was thrilled when my dad would take my brother and I out for fishing, hiking, skiing, etc. Got us out of the house and wore us out.

[lap83]

My mom was pretty chill too. Her only rule was no blood on the carpet.

[Pathogen]

Simply encase the child in bubble wrap, or in a hamster ball.. and hands above the waist..

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Police in Cleveland are investigating the fatal shooting of a dog by an officer. The dog's owner says the city offered to pay his vet bills and buy him a new dog but he wants changes in police response policies.

Tyler Muzzi says the officer shot his 1-year-old yellow Labrador, Miller, while the dog was tied to a leash. It happened June 12 as officers investigated a call about a suspicious person next door.[...] Muzzi says police told him the officer felt threatened and that prompted the shooting.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Cops make me feel threatened. . .

[fish]

Muzzi says police told him the officer felt threatened and that prompted the shooting.

Threatened by a one year old yellow Labrador??!?? Threatened by dog saliva poisoning maybe.

Hey cop lurkers.....how come so many of you are pussies?

Yellow Labrador.....why didn't you call in an air strike just to be sure?!

[Pathogen]

He didn't want to run the risk of damaging his new cruiser.. he had just decked it out to be his chick magnet..

[BiMonSciFiCon]

"I'm about to be licked! Repeat: licking imminent. I better put this one down!"

[sarcasmic]

I think there's probably more to the story. Like dude didn't show sufficient subservience to the king's man or something, which prompted puppycide as punishment.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Yes let's not jump to conslusions. Until all of the facts are presented, we and the grand jury, will just have to defer to the officer's telling of events.

[Certified Public Asshat]

Battle of Bad Government Policies:

Baltimore Mayor wants to deny damaged liquor stores access to funds, Maryland Governor says more money

"The city should not put tax dollars or donations into helping non-conforming liquor stores rebuild as liquor stores in those same locations," she told reporters Wednesday. "That is simply not the appropriate way for us to spend city tax dollars or donations."

City officials argue that liquor stores contribute to crime and poor health in impoverished areas, which need other kinds of stores, such as those that sell fresh fruits and vegetables.

"However, I understand that Gov. Hogan and the state have a different point of view," Rawlings-Blake said. "They appear to believe our neighborhoods need more liquor stores, not fewer. ... While Gov. Hogan and the state would like to provide economic assistance for non-conforming liquor stores to rebuild in our residential neighborhoods, the state's rules require the city sign off on any such request."

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

they appear to believe our neighborhoods need more liquor stores, not fewer.

Gawd I hate fucking unreasoned hyperbole (that's probably redundant). So if someone wants to help the businesses re-open that already existed in those neighborhoods, that person wants more, not the same.

That's not eve mentioning the fucking control freak nannyism on display. Go tell your kids not to drink and smoke and leave us unrelated consenting adults out of your mommy fantasies.

[Certified Public Asshat]

She also labels them as "non-conforming" when in reality, they are grandfathered in under old zoning laws.

[PM]

At least the central planners on Soviet Russia never cut off the booze.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

And when there was a shortage of vodka, the Russian people discovered... mouthwash!

[Pathogen]

"It's brake fluid, sir.. See, I filter it through bread.. to get the shit out of it.. it packs one hell of a kick.."

[In League with the Dark Ones]

The early Soviet leadership did and the vodka producers fled Russia -- that's why a lot of vodka today is made in France.

[In League with the Dark Ones]

From "Alcohol in Russia":

The first Bolshevik government reduced alcohol production (Sheregi, 1986) but by about 1921 consumption had returned to very high levels, in particular spirits distilled illicitly. By 1925, all the restrictions imposed after the revolution were rescinded, after which alcohol-related deaths exceeded their pre-war level, in some cities, such as Moscow, by as much as 15-fold. This decision, together with that to re-establish a state monopoly, was taken, quite explicitly, by Stalin, to raise money and thus avoid the necessity of seeking foreign investment capital. By the 1970s, receipts from alcohol were again constituting a third of government revenues.

[sarcasmic]

which need other kinds of stores, such as those that sell fresh fruits and vegetables.

So what happens when the stupid people in the neighborhood choose not to buy what their betters have determined that they should buy? Subsidize grocery stores that offer the correct produce but can't make any money from it?

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

Force the neighbors to buy. It's a penaltax.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

So let me see if I have this Charleston story right: Thus far we have one grainy photo that could be a white guy or a light skinned black guy and we have no knowledge of motivation, yet progressives immediately assume it's a white guy who did this out of race hatred.

Assuming it is a white guy, how do we know he wasn't dating a black girl and knew all the people in that church and killed them out of anger after the girl broke up with him? How do we know he didn't have a grudge against someone in the church entirely unrelated to race?

I'm going to bet this story ends up not being what progressives want it to be, at which time they will force it down the memory hole and wait for the next tragedy they can hysterically exploit without bothering to wait for evidence.

[ant1sthenes]

I'm going to bet that it's a white racist, because there are still plenty of them out there (and even if there weren't, it only takes one), and because we can't wish away facts that don't fit our preferred narrative; that's a luxury only progressives have.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

^This.

There are such things as white supremacists with violent tendencies. Shit happens sometimes.

But I certainly don't identify with such people, and if others choose to associate my principles (self-ownership and non-aggression) with an obvious example of the complete opposite of my principles, that's their problem, not mine. You can't fix willful ig'nince.

[John]

Sure there are. But shooting up churches is not generally what they do. If he had murdered an interracial couple or some federal judge, I would be inclined to think he is a supremacist. White Supremacists exist and are horrible but they as a general rule are not genocidal maniacs. This guy is more than likely a lone nut with some kind of special psychotic reason to want to shoot up this church.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

I said "white supremacists with violent tendencies"

[John]

Even the violent ones do shit like shoot judges or community figures. Shooting up a church? I don't see it. Maybe this guy is a white supremacist but if he is, he is a psychotic who happens to be one and he did this because he is a psychotic not because he is a supremacist.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

What the hell difference does it make if it's a church or a courthouse or a school?

[commodious spittoon]

I think the point he's making is that supremacists tend to go after structural or institutional signs of integration, hence courthouses or schools or couples. Churches tend to be fairly segregated.

Which doesn't make a whit of difference if this guy, almost always the case, is a lone nut psychopath.

[ant1sthenes]

Are you fucking serious? Black churches are not a target of white supremacists? Really?

When I think "things white supremacists attack", black churches is at or close to the top of the list.

[John]

Oh really. Then name me all of the black church attacks since the famous one in 1963 Alabama. Give me a list with links of all such attacks. Not ones that come out of your ass, but actual attacks.

Good luck with that.

[ant1sthenes]

You basically just disproved your own point. Yes, 1963. Black church. Attacked. By white supremacists.

I mean, Nazis haven't committed any holocausts lately either, but if I heard about skinheads herding Jews into a room and filling it with chlorine gas, I wouldn't be like "that's sooooo unlike them!"

[PM]

Well, if another crazed white supremacist shoots up a black church in 2067, we'll know for sure there's a pattern emerging.

[wareagle]

it's a shame that the evidence of the past several decades does not support your hypothesis. But thanks for your entry in the political hobby horse race.

[ant1sthenes]

Yes, racists have never targeted black churches since 1963

It's true that there haven't been shooting or bombings that I can recall, though there have been fires, threats, and vandalism, and I'm sure not every one was a false flag.

[John]

None of those cases have proven causes. Sorry, try again.

And sometimes churches like every other building burn down for some reason other than arson.

[PM]

Well, we seem to have drifted slightly from John's original contention:

But shooting up churches is not generally what they do.

To the more generic "attack", including vandalism.

I couldn't really say what white supremacists "generally do", as that ain't my scene. But it's probably telling that events such as this, despite featuring at or near the top of your perception of things white supremacists would do, are rare enough that Google couldn't readily produce a recent example.

[Injun, nonviolent Wood Chipper]

I agree.

Like that Wisconsin white supremacist scumbag that shot up an Indian Sikh temple.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

I'm not 'wishing away facts that don't fit my preferred narrative' given that no facts currently exist and we have one grainy photo of a man who may be white or may be biracial.

I'll accept whatever facts are presented to me, but the left is making wild assumptions based on literally no evidence and should be called to account for it. And given that the left continuously makes these sorts of assumptions and are wrong 9/10ths of the time (see: Duke noose, Duke rape case, Rolling Stone, Tawana Brawley, etc. etc.) their track record is not particularly stellar.

[ant1sthenes]

"Thus far we have one grainy photo that could be a white guy or a light skinned black guy and we have no knowledge of motivation"

No, we have a surviving eyewitness who was told she was being spared to deliver a message.

[John]

Link?

And what is the message?

[ant1sthenes]

Here's a link I found at a site called Reason

"Sylvia Johnson, a cousin of Mr. Pinckney, told NBC News that she had spoken with a survivor of the shooting who told her the gunman reloaded five times. The survivor, she said, told her that the gunman had entered the church and asked for the pastor. Then he sat next to Mr. Pinckney during the Bible study before opening fire.

"I have to do it," the gunman was quoted as saying. "You rape our women and you're taking over our country. And you have to go."

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

"Our" women. Given the dweeb's haircut, I find it hard to believe he's ever been with a woman.

[In League with the Dark Ones]

Got rejected in favor of a guy from that church?

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

It's on craploads of major news outlets.

I see CNN, Newsweek, The LA Times so far.

[John]

The suspect looks like an Adam Lanza level freak. I bet he is a lone psychotic who did everything but take out a newspaper ad telling the world he was going to blow a gasket and start shooting.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

Oh, really? I had not heard that. Then I did not have the story straight, and retract everything I said.

See? I was not "wishing away facts that don't fit our preferred narrative," I literally did not know a fact."

[ant1sthenes]

Not trying to be a dick, I just think we should be better than the people we criticize here. Occam's razor says that if a plausibly white person walks into a historically black church and carries out a mass killing, it's probably a hate crime.

It's not impossible that there is another explanation, of course, but the vehement resistance to the prime scenario is unrelated to the facts, and instead to the understanding that such a scenario will serve our enemies in attacking us and/or our rights. Going from that to denying the likely facts is an emotional response, not a rational one.

[PM]

Occam's razor says that if a plausibly white person walks into a historically black church and carries out a mass killing, it's probably a hate crime.

Occam's razor suggests that of two equally predictive hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions is best. I think you may possibly have overlooked some built in assumptions in your preferred hypothesis if you actually believe that. Not the least of which being the linguistic assumption that "hate crime" is a meaningful term.

Usually the best course of action when little is known is to gather more information. Whose pet theory is proved can be more easily decided that way.

[lap83]

Not the least of which being the linguistic assumption that "hate crime" is a meaningful term.

This.

If there is any meaning to it, it's that certain thoughts make a crime worse than it would otherwise be, which is an awful precedent to set. Like we should be more horrified by the fact that he was racist than the fact that he took innocent lives.

[DrZaius]

Why not just wait for some actual facts and such to come out instead of making up absurd presumptive hypotheticals? That comment read like a Salon piece.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

I'm going to bet this story ends up not being what progressives want it to be, at which time they will force it down the memory hole and wait for the next tragedy they can hysterically exploit without bothering to wait for evidence.

At which time their friends in the media will engage gross acts of journalism to make the narrative work. They'll edit 911 calls, they'll photoshop pictures and make extremely tenuous connections to the KKK seem like conclusive evidence.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

The "everybody gets a medal" bullshit has come to the workplace. The agency where I work had a FitBit step challenge, and even though one team dominated, they just had to give an "award" to everybody. What's the point of a competition if you can't even get bragging rights?

(I didn't participate being the lazy, fat, heat-hating slob that I am. Also I'm not a joiner.)

[Fist of Etiquette]

WHERE'S YOUR MEDAL?

[Rhywun]

I'm not a joiner.

I think that goes without saying around here.

[SugarFree]

Apparently, this is the guy being sought at the Charleston shooter.

Via Warty

[SugarFree]

"as the" [sigh]

[Warty]

Redneck Adam Lanza. I can't wait to read his manifesto.

[SugarFree]

I bet there will be a lot of impressive mid-sentence capitalizations.

[Warty]

I'm betting we'll see a lot of "White"s.

[SugarFree]

His jacket in the Facebook pic has the flags of Rhodesia and apartheid era South Africa.

[Warty]

The top flag is definitely the apartheid ZA flag. The bottom looks like it almost certainly is the Rhodesian flag, but it's too blurry to be 100% sure.

[ant1sthenes]

Maybe he's a citizen of New South Africa? Fucking FOQNEs.

[John]

That is what I thought. What a fucking freak. No way was that guy a member of any white supremacist gang. You have to be some level of cool and have some level of socialization to join a gang of any kind.

[Warty]

He was a total loser, had a psychotic break, needed someone to blame for his being a loser, and chose the convenient and traditional out-group that redneck losers choose when they need someone to kick. That's my guess. What a shitshow.

[John]

Probably. Or it might even be something more pathetic than that. Maybe he had a real thing for some woman who was dating a black guy. Apparently he said "you are raping our women" during the shooting. Whatever it is, it is going to be something epically pathetic and applicable to no one but this loser. And the media and a lot of other people will go bat shit insane trying to find some larger meaning where there is none.

[Warty]

A loser having girl trouble? I've never heard of it.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Whatever else you think of him, you have to admit that's a great profile pic.

[The DerpRider]

His friends list is fully a quarter black people. My totally wild guess is a spurned ex who decided to date a black guy drove him nuts.

[John]

That seems pretty possible. The whole "you are raping our women" thing. The guy is going to turn out to be a pathetic, creepy nut instead of the Christian tea party, Republican voting evil white male the media has so hoped and prayed he would be.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

It's that sexy "Jack Nicholson at the typewriter" look he was going for apparently.

[Warty]

A lot of you belong at Free Republic, not here. Just saying.

[A special place in JW's Hell]

Did they catch the mooslim that did this yet?

[Warty]

No, no, you idiot. Atheist.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

He's a white supremacist, but not one of those cool white supremacists. Let's not go around impugning those groups, who haven't shot up any churches recently.

[PM]

A lot of you belong at Free Republic, not here. Just saying.

-- Warty Cara, Esq.

Seriously, fuck off.

[Warty]

And he's caught. That was quick. Stupid little fuck.

[Lord Humungus]

Nice bowl haircut there

[PM]

Kevin McCallister grew up to be a real cunt, apparently.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

I'm all for the cops apprehending someone as peacefully as possible so they can stand trial but it still blows my mind that the police can effectuate an arrest on someone like this and yet also gun down a 12 year old on a playground.

[Warty]

So...if she weighs the same as a duck...the cops shoot 12 year olds because they want to?

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?

[John]

So does this mean that Chris Kyle is now just another Dylan Roof?

[In League with the Dark Ones]

The Treasury Department announced it would remove Alexander Hamilton from the $10 bill in 2020 and replace him with a woman.

From "Move over, Hamilton! Treasury to put woman on $10 bill":

Even then, Alexander Hamilton isn't going away. The first Treasury secretary played a leading role in developing the nation's financial system, and has been on the $10 since 1928. And there he'll remain, either on the reverse side or in a separate series of bills. Also, the 1.9 billion $10 bills now in circulation will likely last another 10 years.

Emphasis added.

[chmercier]

It had better be Bo Derek on that 10 dollar bill.

Or Tina Turner.