Police Abuse

Woman Calls Non-Emergency Number to Get Help for Suicidal Boyfriend. Cops Arrive, Kill Him.

'They shot him because that's what we do'

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Cops
Dreamstime

Earlier this month, Justin Way of St. Augustine, Florida, threatened to kill himself. He sat down on his bed, drunk, brandishing a knife that he intended to use on himself. His girlfriend, Kaitlyn Christine Lyons, called a non-emergency police number to get him help. She expected the authorities to institutionalize him for self-protection.

Instead, two sheriff's deputies arrived, armed with assault rifles. They made Lyons wait outside while they stormed Way's room. And then they killed him.

According to The Daily Beast:

[Justin's father] George Way said the initial report he received from Det. Mike Smith detailed an incident wherein his officers said they were attacked by Justin with a knife. Way said Smith told him Justin had threatened Kaitlyn. Kaitlyn denies this.

Denise Way, Justin's mom, said that the detective relayed to her that "they told Justin to drop the knife and he didn't—so they shot him because that's what we do."

Smith implied that Way lunged at the officers, although the family believes the lack of blood anywhere but the bed suggests that he was instead shot before he could have moved.

What about tasers, or bringing mental health professionals to the scene?

In a phone interview with Commander Chuck Mulligan of the St. Johns County Sheriff's Office, The Daily Beast asked if it was standard procedure to bring assault rifles, but not mental-health professionals, to a scene where someone is suicidal.

"If the deputies feel that that is the appropriate weapon system to use, then yes," said Mulligan.

If the deputies used tasers and one prong missed, Mulligan said, they might be left in a difficult and potentially dangerous situation.

"They were in a very tight space within a residence," he said.

I fail to see how the situation could possibly have been made worse. Stories like this continue to suggest that in no circumstances—even life-threatening emergencies—should you call the police. Someone will get killed.

It shouldn't be that way, of course. Police have special training, and should be able to enter potentially dangerous situations without immediately and automatically terminating any remote threat to their safety.

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  1. they shot him because that’s what we do

    Words just fail.

    1. The only appropriate response is to shoot the cops and say “I shoot people who kill my relatives because that’s what I do.”

      1. Unlike police, you will actually be held accountable for your actions.

        1. I didn’t say it would turn out well, just that it would be appropriate.

        2. Then so be it.

          Someone murders my child, but thinks will get away with it because they are a cop? Nope.

          I will make it my life’s sole remaining mission.

          My trial and subsequent conviction, in the absence of his, will only stand to confirm my actions.

          Some laws are older than kings.

          1. Yep. This reminds me, I’ve got to find out how to send money to Ryan Frederick’s prison account.

            1. I just googled that name and read about that case. You Balko’d me!

              I now believe in trigger warnings.

              1. Hopefully he doesn’t have fines or whatever and gets the $100

              2. Ugh. This could absolutely have been me. If someone is pounding down my door at night, I would answer with a gun in hand.

              1. I clicked through a bit. Is there a reasonable way to find his prisoner ID? Do you know which facility he is serving time in?

            2. Thanks; I think I’ll send him something myself. http://www.writeaprisoner.com/…..=z-1406669

          2. Just wait a few years. Then quietly hire a hitter.

  2. I fail to see how the situation could possibly have been made worse. Stories like this continue to suggest that in no circumstances?even life-threatening emergencies?should you call the police. Someone will get killed.

    You don’t invite ineptitude into tense situations.

  3. I thought assisted suicide was illegal.

    1. Suicide by cop appears to be legal under any and all circumstances.

      1. As always, ask yourself what would happen to you if you did what the cop did. Why do they get special rules? Sure, the cops can be in dangerous situations, but so can a host of other people, none of whom have permission to kill without much consequence.

        1. Imagine her calling 911 after shooting him and telling a story about how he made suicidal statements, had a knife, but the only blood was in the bed. They’d thoroughly investigate the possibility murdered him and planted the knife.

        2. have permission to kill without much consequence

          That’s not really true. It’s the self-defense defense. The issue here is cops putting themselves in a situation where they feel they need to engage in self-defense. There are other ways to deal with suicidal people without immediately putting yourself at a high risk of a fatal injury.

          1. For us peons, if we create the scenario that requires us to use lethal force in the end, we don’t get to use self defense as a defense.

      2. When you call the cops on a family member you are doing society a service. It’s just like when you own a building that you want to tear down, you call the fire department to burn it down for you for practice.

  4. In a phone interview with Commander Chuck Mulligan of the St. Johns County Sheriff’s Office, The Daily Beast asked if it was standard procedure to bring assault rifles, but not mental-health professionals, to a scene where someone is suicidal.

    “If the deputies feel that that is the appropriate weapon system to use, then yes,” said Mulligan.

    That’s not the question that was asked. Why do reporters let officials get away with this?

    Hey LA, why are you watering tires and shopping carts while it’s raining during a drought?

    “We have to water because of erosion control.”

    1. In fairness, I would have probably been so shocked by that answer, I would have forgotten what the question was.

    2. “If the deputies feel that that is the appropriate weapon system to use, then yes,” said Mulligan.

      Apparently they skip right over the “Is the appropriate response a weapon?” question.

    3. Perhaps the police consider a mental health professional a weapon.

      1. “Say hello to my little friend!”

  5. The man was going to kill himself. Every good, God fearing police officer knows that suicide is a sin. They killed him to save his soul.

    So you see, they are literally doing God’s work out there.

    1. They’re already damned so its no biggy to commit another sin. And accepting that damnation is what justifies their temporal freedom.

    2. Police bullets are blessed and carry absolution for the target that has committed a mortal sin in attempting suicide.

  6. Police have special training

    Not really. Spending a few hours in some rigged up “training obstacle course” shooting targets is not adequate training for a lot of the situations they routinely insert themselves into and inevitably escalate. And most cops don’t even have that. Having gone to the police academy years ago doesn’t make you “trained”. It just makes you a dork like Tackleberry.

    I’m getting cynical enough about the cops that at this point, I would guess that incoming “we have a suicidal person” calls are taken with the express anticipation of probably getting to kill an actual person (it’s even better than a call with dogs!). “They were a danger to themselves and others” is a ready-made justification. And then they shoot them because that’s what they do.

    1. When all you have is an assault rifle, everything looks like a target.

      1. Someone needs to justify getting the assault rifles from the department of defense, and they aren’t going to shoot themselves.

    2. Shooting someone, even when totally justified, should involve as much pain for the cop as possible. Create every disincentive possible to him pulling the trigger.

      Instead, we practically applaud each killing, no matter how unjustified.

      1. Incentives matter.

      2. Well, ProL, we’ve all seen the cop shows and Dirty Harry and whatnot. Some people need to be shot.

        1. I’m trying to imagine Clint Eastwood shooting a depressed guy who wanted to kill himself… nope… can’t do it. Again, Hollywood with all of its so-called violence and ‘splosions and car chases pales in comparison to the actual violence that the people who we charge with protecting and serving do.

        2. Excuse me, when Harry Callahan dealt with a potential suicide jumper he just punched the guy and dragged him to the ground.

          1. He was trained for that.

          2. ^^^^Fuckin’ A, This!

          3. Exactly. He saved his life… tough love, but saved his life!

          4. “Excuse me, when Harry Callahan dealt with a potential suicide jumper he just punched the guy and dragged him to the ground.”

            Still better than shooting him dead.

            1. Still better than shooting him dead.

              I took the comment to be a compliment to Dirty Harry and an insult to the real police.

          5. Dirty Harry had no family which he had to make it home safely to, he was a risk taker..

    3. I assume that if I was a police officer and knew I would be tasked with subduing people and maybe using a pistol or rifle, and dealing with many mentally disturbed individuals I would go out of my way to become a good shot with the pistol, and be physically fit, and to have a clue as to how to approach and speak with the mentally disturbed.

      Instead, it is like we have a nation of fat, stupid cops who have very little idea of how to use weapons.

      1. Give them a bazooka and they’re likely to shoot a plane out of the sky.

        1. Plane shot out of sky? Whoee, now err get to go out and get more drones and Hellfire missiles and stuff to go fight terrr!

          /Cytotoxic

        2. Well the drug dog did alert.

      2. They only have one tool in the psychology toolshed and that is intimidation. In every situation they are trained to establish their authority (dominance). So they come in barking commands or shouting at everyone. It probably works to gain compliance a great deal of the time, but it also inevitably results in escalating situations to violence that would not otherwise have become violent. Particularly if they are dealing with someone who is in an altered mental state, whether through innate psychiatric problems or due to intoxication.

        Very few people have the intelligence and compassion to suss out the appropriate way to de-escalate potentially dangerous situations. Even fewer have the ability to maintain that level of focus in the face of years of dealing with hostile and generally nasty people.

    4. I’ve been playing Paper’s Please and realized that after being repeatedly dinged for overlooking minor things and sending the person through that I’m actually happy when someone comes with an expired passport or missing documents so I can just reject them and move on.

  7. From a purely tactical point of view:

    What kind of fucking moron takes a rifle into “a very tight space within a residence”. A rifle strikes me as the worst possible choice of a firearm for that situation.

    1. I know the answer! A St. Johns County Sheriff’s Office deputy!

    2. One who wants maximum firepower and more than 10 rounds.

      1. A short barreled, 12 gauge would be the better choice. More maneuverable, significantly higher fatality rate with a single shot, definitely more incapacitating in cases where there is not a fatality and, less risk of collateral damage via ricochets or barrier penetration.

        The last time I looked, all police cruisers were equipped with one too!

        1. Cops don’t carry semi-auto shotguns (to my knowledge). Can’t spray and pray with a shotgun. And uh, when did the cops wring their hands over collateral damage? They arrived with the express purpose of killing a depressed, suicidal victim. Frankly, the other members of the household are lucky to be alive.

        2. Actually they use 5.56×45 caliber rifles, because the projectile is less likely to go through several walls than buckshot, slugs, or most pistol caliber projectiles.

          The projectile is light and fast, but lose energy very quickly in stuff like dry-wall or wood.

          In other words, they use those rifles because they are less likely to shoot the unseen child in the bedroom behind the wall, or the neighbor in the next apartment.

          1. This also happens to make a .223/5.56×45 rifle one of the best options for home defense, if you’re worried about liability from hitting something other than your intended target.

            Since the round is actually pretty anemic, you need a standard 30 round magazine to have enough rounds to make it count in an emergency. Like when it’s dark, you’re frazzled, and there are more than one attacker in your home.

            Forget all the rhetoric about “high-powered assault rifles” and “high capacity magazine clips”.

            1. “you need a standard 30 round magazine”

              No, you need this:

              https://www.magpul.com/products/pmag?-d-60-ar-m4

          2. What’s your source for wall penetration?

            According to this, 9mm and .223 will both penetrate 12 sheets of drywall, but 9mm only penetrates 8 sheets of pine, while a .223 goes through all 12.

            http://www.theboxotruth.com/th…..x-o-truth/

            1. Article about the FBI tests that prompted most SWAT teams to transition from 9mm SMGs to 5.56×45 rifles:

              http://www.olyarms.com/index.p…..nformation

              For a short synopsis, search for the term “Isn’t 5.56 too dangerous to use indoors?”, apparently a direct link to the paragraph doesn’t work:

              http://ammo-oracle.razoreye.net/

              Your test pits a 9mm HP up against a .223 FMJ. And even then the FMJ starts to tumble after a few sheets of drywall. With a different kind of projectile they will come apart pretty easily in hard barriers, but be pretty effective against primary soft targets.

          3. In other words, they use those rifles because they are less likely to shoot the unseen child in the bedroom behind the wall, or the neighbor in the next apartment.

            I agree with everything you say, except for the notion that the cops are concerned about the unseen child.

            1. I don’t know if they care about an unseen child or not, but they sure care about the liability. It’s a lot harder to defend shooting someone in an adjacent room than someone in the same room.

            2. Kids are the reason they invented flash bangs.

    3. Shit like this frightens me. I have a family friend on lithium and other antipsychotic meds that occasionally — once every couple years — goes off the deep end and needs to be institutionalized. He’s not a danger to anybody but possibly himself and usually only to the extent he might think walking into a busy street is a good idea.

      He once years ago did get physical with a police officer responding to a call that he was going crazy. He was not malicious and was only playing around but he’s a big guy — 6’2″, 190 pounds — and the cop wasn’t amused nor understanding. He was jailed for months — for long stretches without his meds or access to medical professionals. Reading this, my friend was lucky but what about next time?

      1. He was jailed for months — for long stretches without his meds or access to medical professionals. Reading this, my friend was lucky but what about next time?

        Move to one of those shitty blue cities where the police union has run amok and doesn’t respond to 911 calls?

        1. He was arrested by deputies of a red exurban county. He lives in Oakland now and has never had a problem with police.

          1. He was arrested by deputies of a red exurban county. He lives in Oakland now and has never had a problem with police.

            So he did exactly that.

      2. “He once years ago did get physical with a police officer responding to a call that he was going crazy. He was not malicious and was only playing around but he’s a big guy — 6’2″, 190 pounds — and the cop wasn’t amused nor understanding. He was jailed for months — for long stretches without his meds or access to medical professionals. Reading this, my friend was lucky but what about next time?”

        At least he didn’t get powerbombed and killed like that drunk guy who kind of waved his hand in the general direction of a cop and was subsequently murdered for it.

        These stories are getting so common it’s unbelievable.

        1. Seriously, what we need is a private organization to call for problems that don’t involve someone trying to kill you.

          1. Put Domino’s in charge of mental health response?

            1. Perhaps, provided that they train delivery drivers. I mean really train, not cop train.

      3. I have a family friend on lithium and other antipsychotic meds

        So, he’s just like a cop then.

    4. You know who else hated assault rifles?

      1. Diane Feinstein.

      2. Crocodile Dundee.

      3. The DOJ?

    5. What kind of rifle was it? 5.56x45mm is confirmed to penetrate walls less effectively than handgun bullets. Tactically, if you want to minimize danger to people on the.other side of the wall you.may shoot through, a 5.56mm carbine or short barreled rifle is a better choice than a handgun. There are of course the obvious maneuverability objections to carbine vs a handgun.

      1. Doesn’t matter. Any rifle is the wrong tool “in a very tight space within a residence”.

        1. A rifle in that particular caliber is a compromise between lethality, liability, and size, which is why they are configured with shorter barrels and shorter overall length.

          These weapons have been chosen because shooting through multiple walls is deemed a liability concern.

      2. What’s your source for wall penetration?

        According to this, 9mm and .223 will both penetrate 12 sheets of drywall, but 9mm only penetrates 8 sheets of pine, while a .223 goes through all 12.

        http://www.theboxotruth.com/th…..x-o-truth/

        1. It depends on ammo selection. This months “American rifleman” has an article about the AR for home defense. I’m not completely sold. I’ll stick with my 12 gauge.

          1. I wouldn’t rely on American Rifleman for any evaluation of a firearm, myself.

            It is interesting how variable these tests are. More than I would have thought.

            I’d still go with the maneuverability of a handgun, indoors. Possible a short-barreled shotgun with the stock folded down. For pure lethality, I’d take my .45 or 12 gauge over a .223 at ranges of “across the room”.

            1. It was an interview with a weapons trainer, not an AR review. The guy carried an AR for 15 years or whatever so he might be biased. He made some good points, but for being snapped out of a dead sleep in the pitch black, I’ll take the spread of the shotgun.

            2. I recently ran across some 52 grain, 1500 fps rounds for my .380. I haven’t tested yet, but these could replace my Judge.

        2. Depends on the actual projectile used. That particular test used XM-193, a full metal jacket round. And it still tumbled after a few sheets.

          http://www.guns.com/2013/02/27…..enetratio/

          http://www.olyarms.com/index.p…..&Itemid=26

    6. That’s why you’re not a police.

  8. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My neighbour’s sister has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    =============================
    try this site ????? http://www.workweb40.com

    1. Was it a switchblade knife?

    2. Shockingly, the thread was deleted by the sub’s mods…

      1. Why? Is it too traumatic to see how they really think?

        1. The mod claimed it was being “stampeded” by anti-LEO folks. Which was probably true. Sort of shocked that sub isn’t invite-only.

      2. Is that why everything looks like it’s been redacted?

    3. Welp, yeah, it’s gone. Guess I will have to entertain (or raise my blood pressure?) myself here:

      http://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/

      1. 1st time there. It’s like all the nut punched condensed into one place. I’m going to refer people there next time they start whining about isolated incidents and individual bad apples.

        1. https://puppycidedb.com – 2250 confirmed police shootings of pets and counting!

  9. “It shouldn’t be that way, of course. Police have special training…”

    Yes, it shouldn’t be that way. Unfortunately, the “Special training” you speak of is all contained in following quote.

    “they told Justin to drop the knife and he didn’t?so they shot him because that’s what we do.”

    1. Huh, what happened to “protect and serve.” Must have changed “serve” to “ourselves” sometime down the road.

      1. “Protect (themselves) And Serve (themselves a donut)”

      2. “To Protect and Serve” is a cookbook. It’s a cookbook!

    2. I think some police do have special training. Unfortunately, those aren’t the ones with the assault rifles.

      Personally, I worked in private security for ten years, and I DID have training in conflict resolution, and had a B.A. I was (and still am) much smarter than the average cop.

      In my ten years, I never drew my weapon, and only once had to be overtly physical. It was for possibly the stupidest reason imaginable. I had to physically break up a brawl that had broken out on Black Friday over someone cutting in line at the entrance. Two women in their mid-40s were fighting; punching and pulling hair, etc. (SIGH!!!)

      1. Did they bust out the pillows? More details please…

  10. One more:

    the detective relayed to her that “they told Justin to drop the knife and he didn’t?so they shot him because that’s what we do

    Killed for failure to obey. There’s no claim (at this point, before they tuned up their story) that he attacked them with the knife, and the physical evidence is inconsistent with the corpse-to-be getting off the bed to attack somebody.

    And this is probably exactly what they are trained to do. If somebody with a weapon doesn’t drop it on the first demand, grease them. Why wait around for them to actually try to do anything with it? The only real offense if failure to obey, so once you have that, its weapons-free.

    1. It’s not “why wait”, it’s “why NOT grease them?” These guys have clearly shown that they like to kill things if they can get away with it (and they can usually get away with it). They’re clearly looking for any excuse. It’s one reason any encounter with them is SO dangerous. If they decide to look for that excuse with you, well, they’re probably going to find it.

    2. Killed for failure to obey.

      Yep. In all shootings it pretty much boils down to that.

      Remember that their job is not to enforce the law. They don’t give a shit about the law. If they did then they would actually follow it, and actually investigate crimes where there is a victim. They do neither.

      Their job is to force people to obey, only they call it compliance. Refusing to obey is perceived as a threat, and when threatened they are trained to use as much force as possible to force compliance.

  11. OT: But this Elizabeth Price Foley woman blogging at Instapundit now is just fucking terrible.

    On Nebraska banning in the death penalty:

    “Sounds like a proportional punishment: Kill your mother and 4 year-old brother, and get life in prison with free medical and room and board.”

    Yeah, life in prison is so swank and cozy! It’s hardly even a punishment!

    On Rand Paul’s failure to be bloodthirsty enough:

    “SORRY, RAND, BUT YOU CROSSED THE LINE ON THIS ONE: Rand Paul says GOP hawks “created” ISIS.”

    Hear that Rand! Elizabeth Price Foley is super pissed regarding your line crossing ways!

    1. What is it with three-named Elizabeths?

      1. You leave Elizabeth Nolan Brown alone.

        1. No means no.

        2. Yeah! Don’t mess with ENB!

    2. Yeah, if Reynolds felt the need for a co-blogger, I can’t imagine she was even in the top 20 potential candidates. There’s all kinds of really talented and interesting people who kill for that kind of platform. But there she is.

      Aside from her rather ordinary TEAM RED perspective, there’s the fact that her prose is just totally ordinary and forgettable.

      Meh.

      1. Foley is also one of those magnificent alleged “libertarians” who just fucking love the death penalty and get angry when people criticize Republican warmongering.

        1. Like I said, “ordinary TEAM RED perspective”.

        2. Sounds like she’d fit right in at H&R!

          /Tony/plug

    3. Hear that Rand! Elizabeth Price Foley is super pissed regarding your line crossing ways!

      I’m sure Rand is really crushed.

  12. Had this woman called the local violent street gang, I suppose the result would have been the same. Yet, so far as I know, local taxes don’t pay the gang members, nor do they have a union. So why not just disband the police and rely on gangs for the same function? At least gang bangers usually like dogs.

    Seriously, it’s a wonder the cops didn’t also shoot the woman, or at least throw an incendiary grenade into her neighbor’s house. The heroes showed remarkable restraint.

    1. At least when you pay the Mafia protection money, they actually leave you alone. Hell, if someone else came along trying to shake you down, they’d probably actually even protect you!

    2. “Had this woman called the local violent street gang,”

      It appears she did.

    3. No, it would not have. Gang members would have had a little more restraint as they would be afraid of consequences. There’s also a chance they would have engaged in insensitive “compassion” to try and ‘snap him out of it’.

    4. I think the local gang member would’ve walked up to the guy and slapped the knife out of his hands. Maybe rough him up in the process, but that’s it.

  13. A HA!!! Be careful what you ask for, son. You just may get it.

  14. Oh, and where is Slate, NPR and the New York Times doing their 4 part series on racism in law enforcement unaccountable violence directed by the all-powerful state?

  15. I think I’m learning to never call the cops.

    Ever.

    Also I think it’s high time I bought myself a SIG.

    1. I can think of a couple good reasons to call the cops. If you had something stolen or damaged and needed a police report for insurance purposes, then you pretty much need to call them. Don’t expect them to actually investigate the crime though. Or if you’ve got a dead body and a damn good excuse. But other than that I can’t think of a situation that the cops would not make worse.

      1. “If you had something stolen or damaged and needed a police report for insurance purposes, then you pretty much need to call them.”

        Uh, where do you live?

        In my neck of the woods, the police are “too busy with more pressing matters” to respond to simple burglary and larceny calls. There will be no police report. They will send some forms you can fill out.

        That’s pretty much SOP for any jurisdiction I know of in major, urbanized metro areas. ;-(

        1. I live in a small town that doesn’t even have a police department. We contract with the State Troopers and Sheriff to have officers available for calls. Mostly they just set up speed traps.

        2. They came to my apartment when it got robbed in orlando. They didn’t harass me, but they didn’t do much other than take down the serial numbers of the guns that were stolen. Then they called back 3 times to get the numbers. Real tight ship they run.

    2. If I’m hearing somebody screaming bloody murder, I’m calling the cops. Even then, I’m not providing my name or address.

      1. If I’m hearing somebody screaming bloody murder, I’m calling the cops.

        Eeeehhh..

      2. If you call from your own phone, they’ve pretty much got your name and address, don’t they?

        1. “We’re the cops… we have caller ID.”

      3. If I’m calling the cops, I’m hearing someone scream bloody murder.

    3. Which Sig?

      1. Hanson?

        1. + a boat load of crab

    4. Wrong!

      Once you brandish, fire or kill someone with the SIG, you’ll feel the full force of the LEOs applied that you were trying to avoid in the first place.

      In the meantime, the one who incited you to take protective measures, will get off free and end up testifying against you in court.

      How dare you consider usurping the authority granted only to the elite police!

      (Sorry, I live in CA and have had to deal with these self-serving my entire life. I’ve been well trained by the propaganda machine.)

  16. Oh, c’mon Reason. This entire story sounds pretty damn bogus to me.

    1. Cool story, bro.

  17. Obey or die.

    1. “Obey or die” That needs to be on the dollar bill.

  18. Another point of reference for when some boot licker asks, “If you hate cops so much, what are you going to do when the day comes that you need one?”

    And my retort will be, “At what point will I ever need THIS!?”

    1. Give me an example of when I might need a cop.

      Seriously. Oh, and if your example is “Somebody is kicking down your door to rob and murder you,” my answer will be:

      (a) Odds are, that IS the cops; and
      (b) I’ll handle that myself, thanks.

      1. *nods in agreement*

      2. I’ve half-seriously replied with “I won’t call the cops – I’ll call the coroner. Because by the time someone gets there, one (or both) of us will be dead.”

    2. My response is that I’ve called the cops when I thought I needed them. When my apartment was burglarized I call the cops. They showed up and the first thing they did was demand ID so they could run me for warrants. When that didn’t give them an excuse to arrest me, they searched me for drugs. When that didn’t give them an excuse to arrest me, they asked to search the apartment for drugs so they could arrest me. When I refused they left. They didn’t ask a single question about the smashed window or stolen goods.
      Same story when I was assaulted by a neighbor and when I was robbed at gunpoint.
      Yet when they suspected I had committed victimless crimes they were quite thorough in their investigations.

      My conclusion is that cops don’t give a rat’s ass about crimes with victims. Their only concern is with victimless crimes against the State. I think it’s because, as members of the State, they take those crimes personally. But things like burglary, assault, and robbery are what the cops do to people all day long, so they don’t consider those things to be crimes.

      1. You probably did something to deserve being robbed/killed/assaulted.
        /cop think

        1. They’ve actually said that to me in so many words.

      2. Years back, my little sister lived alone with her infant son. Some crazy broke in through here kitchen window in the middle of the night, wandered into her bedroom and started rifling through her purse. Then, he unzipped his pants and proceeded to remove the covers from her as she slept.

        It all ended safely when her temper kicked in and she chased him screaming and yelling out of the house.

        Then, she called the cops. By the time they arrived, the perp was gone.

        He had closed the kitchen window behind him (discovered the next day) so, the responding officers didn’t “see” forced entry. Instead, they began to interrogate my sister about her whereabouts prior to the police call – was she in the bar – and her role in inviting that man into her house. They tried to get her to “admit” that she had gone to a bar, picked up some random stranger, and brought him home with her. And now she just wanted to get him in trouble.

        Just writing that story again, after many years, troubles me.

        1. She asked them for help and they accused her of being a drunken slut who deserved it. Typical. Cops are scum. Period.

      3. Tell that to my libertarian brother-in-law on the SFPD, you asshole. Can you be even more clueless? I think not.

        1. Unicorns are real?

          1. No, but cognitive dissonance sure is.

        2. Tuuuuuuullllllllllpaaaaaaaaa

      4. No, that’s not the reason. They’d just as soon engage in most of the same victimless crimes themselves. Their concern is with victimless crimes because dealing with them gives them work which is enough to keep them occupied yet not too difficult or dangerous.

        Say you’re burglarized. The burglar walks away w the evidence. What is there that sufficiently occupies the policeman’s time about that? They can take your statements, that’s about it.

        OTOH, if you have an illegal gun, narcotics, pirated video, kiddie porn, unregistered vehicle, whatever, well, gee, that’s something they can spend a little time searching for & find. Often they’re valuable goods they can keep or sell. If you were robbed, what was valuable is nowhere in sight.

    3. I always ask them something like “Why would I want all my pets killed and my apartment full of bullet holes?”

      1. I read that as “full of butt-holes” at first. Makes sense either way.

  19. Sounds like they were just trying to help… /sarc

  20. Similar sort of thing happened a few years back just a few doors up from me in Libertytown, MD. Husband called cops to defuse domestic dispute. Frederick county shows up in SWAT gear and shoot the wife because she had a gun in her own house. Either by bad reporting or general white wash the details of her and the cops actions didn’t add up.

    It made front page news in Frederick when the narrative was “crazy lady commits suicide by cop”. But the next day when the husband was screaming “WTF?!!” That part of the story was just a paragraph relegated to pg 19. Then it disappeared altogether by day 3.

    1. How did they know she had a gun? Was she stupid enough to register it?

      1. My guess is the cops asked if he owned any firearms and he said yes. Otherwise his truck with NRA stickers and anti Obama stickers might be a tip off. They own a business in town and lived right next door so they may have been known.

        The contentious bit is: it was reported like she was shooting at the cops or about to (? Should it definitely be one or the other?) and the cop that smoked her was “taking cover” behind a Pepsi machine. The Pepsi machine is right on the front porch. They were trying to go through the front door. Instead of maybe waiting for her to sober up or calm the fuck down. The tactics and the use of SWAT were just asking to get someone hurt.

        The husbands reaction the next day pretty much sealed it for me. This was not the bloody stand off they painted it ass. He wanted deescalation with a wife going batshit and they brought the army and shot her in her living room.

        1. A lot of it could be the Frederick News Post are a seriously hack news outlet that totally rely on cop based info about events. It’s informative that they barely touched the story about the guy with Down syndrome having his windpipe crushed by off duty Frederick cops…that is until it broke nationally.

          1. It’s simple self interest. The cops would refuse to cooperate with any news outlet that showed them to be anything but selfless heroes. If the paper wants the news, then they’ve got to kiss pig-ass. Because if they can’t get the news, they can’t sell papers.

  21. Police have special training, and should be able to enter potentially dangerous situations without immediately and automatically terminating any remote threat to their safety.

    These HEROES have families to home to. As long as they all make it home safe that’s all that matters! Officer safety!!!!!1111!!!!!!1!!!

  22. Alternate headline: Woman Assists Boyfriend’s Suicide.

    1. Yeah I saw that in the “Onion” too!

  23. Police have special training

    They are trained to force people to comply using as much force as possible. That’s it. They are not trained to deescalate. Rather they are trained to do the opposite. Don’t immediately do what they say and they initiate violence. Or death. The only special training they get is in using weapons to kill people. But deescalating a situation without violence? Fuck that. They took the job so they could kill people.

    1. And, from what I’ve seen, their weapons training sucks! They can’t hit the broad side of a barn. Which is why we see so many cases of them using sheer volume over accuracy.

      When I started out hunting as a lad, the general prescription was that you had to use a single shot rifle or shotgun. The idea was to teach you to shoot well; to make every shot count. You didn’t want to get into the habit of blasting away at something. You wanted to take your time and hit your mark.

      I think we should limit cops to single shot weapons. Maybe that’d improve and limit their use of lethal force.

      1. They have single shot weapons. Tasers. Though they no longer use them to subdue people anymore. Now they’re a torture device.

    2. I have a friend who was a medic in Afghanistan w the Navy (serving the Marines there), and has since been a bar bouncer, an EMT, a fireman, and now is in the Forest Fire Service. He was an informal undercover volunteer liaison to NYPD at OWS, where he acted as a de-escalation agent. This is a brave guy who knows how to use force sensibly when necessary, but whose main thrust is to avoid the unnecessary use of force, which is how a bar bouncer should be. As a fireman he’s used to putting himself in some danger while keeping a cool head & being able to react quickly & sensibly to rapidly changing conditions.

      The trouble is the police have the wrong incentives. There’s no employer who’s going to lose business if they use force inappropriately.

      1. So you’re saying the police want nothing to do with him because they like to escalate situations and use force whenever they have an excuse.

  24. The big problem with *not* calling the police is that a lot of emergency mental health or emergency shelters won’t talk to you if you directly call them but direct you to the police instead…

    I went through this here in Boston when my ex was evicted* from her apartment. She was threatening to hurt herself, and I started calling shelters to see what I could do to help her out. Every fucking one of them told me that they wouldn’t help her unless she was referred to them by the cops. Every one of them told me a variant of “if you care about her, you should dial 911”.

    Even the shelter run by the Boston diocese of the Catholic Church wouldn’t take her without the govt being involved.

    It was pretty sad.

    * Technically, she left voluntarily to live on the street rather than go through eviction proceedings.

    1. Sounds like she was yearning for the sweet release of death at the hands of a few adrenaline-junky cops. Why else would someone advertise a willingness to hurt themselves?

      1. Tears of Lys

    2. Even the shelter run by the Boston diocese of the Catholic Church wouldn’t take her without the govt being involved.

      If she’s not voluntarily going there, then she’s going there involuntarily. No one in their right mind would help someone involuntarily without government force behind it.

      1. They told me that they wouldn’t help her if she showed up. Period. So it’s not limited to involuntary stuff.

        1. That sounds like a Boston problem.

  25. What about tasers, or bringing mental health professionals to the scene?

    I grew up with a severely retarded sister. She was usually sweet, but at times she would lash out and start breaking up the house. When my dad was alive he knew how to handle her. After he died my mom had to deal with my sister herself. My mom had to call the cops a few times. She would meet them at the curb and, with saintly patience, tell them what was going on and how to behave when they entered our house.

    That’s FYI. There are no magic tasers or mental health gurus.

  26. Is the dog OK?

    1. Yes, the cops made it home safely.

  27. New fat moron cop motto: “To cause the very problem we were called to prevent.”

    1. That MIGHT fit on a squad car…

  28. Can you imagine if firemen acted this way? Yes, they’re supposed to protect themselves, but they’re useless if that’s all they’re good for!

    1. “I can’t go near that building; it’s on fire!”

  29. Police = Murder Incorporated

  30. Racism straight up. We all know this never would have happened to a white guy.

    http://thefreethoughtproject.c…..-15s-kill/

  31. I can speak with some experience here. I was once part of the make believe police known as the USAF Security Police. We occasionally dealt with actual emergencies but it was a lot like being on Mayberry’s police force.

    I have responded to quite a few attempted/threatened suicides though and have dealt with high emotion/fucked up out of their head people. I never took my M-4 to these scenes because it is cumbersome and gets in the way very quickly (not to mention it gives a person a target to go for).

    I am happy to say that out of the dozen or so attempted/threatened suicides I ever went to, no one died and all were sent with EMS. I even went to the same house twice in one shift and still had no desire to kill anyone. The person even threatened to fight me “to the death” and that she would not go back to the hospital. I laughed because well she was drunk and I am a 180 lb male and not really afraid of 120 lb females, not to mention I had 2 other people with me.

    Even once had one of our guys get shot while walking up to some black dudes. We didn’t go on a black man killing crusade either.

    Guess it’s a different culture. We all hated what we were doing and were usually duped by a recruiter into the job. These civilian cops get hard ons for writing tickets so that’s a pretty big difference.

  32. Once can only hope that Dexter did the blood splatter analysis and will be taking care of business.

  33. We don’t have police anymore. We have Peacekeepers from the Hunger Games.

    That is not true of all communities, but it is true for a large enough number that we keep hearing stories like this one.

    Robby is correct: if any kind of trouble occurs, don’t call the police. Calling the police has become like taking a contract out on someone, with an important exception: you may not know the victim.

  34. Aresen|5.28.15 @ 1:13PM|#

    Is the dog OK?

    Answer:
    Yes, the K-9 is just fine. Thanks for asking. The family’s dog was a bit aggressive and had to be put down because it did not follow police commands.

  35. Buy your own taser?

  36. A mentally challenged guy wandered up to my driveway after getting lost on the bus system. I didn’t want him to come into my house (i’m a chick and he was bigger than me), but I called the police (who are literally 2 blocks from my house) and explained the situation. They took half an hour (!!) because apparently my description of him didn’t sound exciting enough. Meanwhile a couple out walking and I kept talking to him and kept him calm. Eventually we managed to get him to show us what he had in his pockets and found an ID with his name and the group home where he lived.

    When the cop came, she didn’t want to put him in her squad car because he had wet his pants. So I got a couple of lawn bags to put over her back seat to protect it from the icky civilian pee and she reluctantly loaded him in.

    Not so much as a thanks to any of us, but at least the man didn’t get shot…as far as we know.

  37. I think everyone should take a look at the knife: http://jacksonville.com/news/c…..nt-suspect

  38. Officer: Hello, is this the emergency room?
    ER: Yes, it is. What’s the problem?
    Officer: There’s a man lying on the floor and he’s not moving. I think he’s dead!
    ER: Are you sure he’s dead?
    Officer: Just a minute. BLAM! Yes, he’s dead.

  39. it boils down to the sean connery line in ‘the untouchables’. job one being the officer going home at the end of the day or something…they forgot that it was only a movie and that’s not job one. you’re paid to risk you life.

  40. Hooray! The cops prevented a suicide!

  41. That’s it, your source is, “The Daily Beast”? This is just another example of adults with arrested development and stuck in perpetual adolescence. Now its the 7th grade where when one 7th grader says something the rest of them believe it. Now it’s editors of national magazines that have this personality disorder.

  42. Meh. A crazy guy with a big ass knife? What do you expect the police to do?

    If she wanted to get him help, why doesn’t she call a mental health provider?

    The police are not problem solvers. They are armed people with guns meant to stop criminals with (lethal) force.

  43. The first rule of fight club life is never call the police. The second rule of…

  44. More “good cops.”

  45. I hope the family members take revenge on all the cops involved including those making excuses for them.

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