ISIS

ISIS, Communism, and the Lure of Violent Utopianism

Jihadi John is nothing new.

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“Nihilists! . . . I mean, say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.” So proclaimed Walter Sobchak in The Big Lebowski, and Americans stunned by the horror of the Islamic State’s barbarity could be tempted to think the same. The Nazis were totalitarian monsters, but at least they believed in something, no matter how evil. Whereas ISIS is simplyâ€"in Secretary of State John Kerry’s wordsâ€"“inexplicable, nihilistic, and valueless.” Particularly mystifying to some is how people such as Mohammed Emwazi, the Islamic State butcher known as Jihadi John, could join such a movement despite growing up in comfortable circumstances in London and getting a university degree in computer programming. Nor is he alone. Many of those drawn to ISIS are intelligent, educated and economically well-off. What drives them to chop off people’s heads?

The horrible truth is that ISIS and its converts, such as Jihadi John, represent nothing new in the modern era. The movement is not inexplicableâ€"a recent essay in The Atlantic explicated it well, albeit controversially. It is not valueless; it champions the values of one very strict reading of Islam. And it is not nihilistic. A nihilist is someone who believes there is nothing to believe in. The fanatics of the Islamic State, however, believe very strongly in the absolute rightness of their own Utopian vision for the world.

Absolute belief renders ISIS’ atrocities not only explicable but seemingly almost mandatory. After all, if you hold the keys to the perfection of life on Earth, then anyone who stands in your way is actively depriving everyone else of that outcome and thereby ensuring the continued suffering of millions. Eliminating such people therefore serves the good of all mankind. (And the grisly beheadings, crucifixions, immolations? They can be justified on the same grounds as the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were: They will shock and awe the enemy into an earlier surrender, and thus save lives in the end. Mercy becomes a justification for cruelty.)

None of this is new. A century ago another Utopian movement behaved very much the same.

The communist revolution led by Vladimir Lenin committed a reign of terror just as heinous and unbridled as the Islamic State’s. The Chekaâ€"a secret state police force created by Lenin and a precursor of the KGBâ€"was tasked with liquidating all those suspected of opposition, including clergy, the children of military officers and the well-to-do. It butchered thousands of innocents and inflicted ghastly tortures, from skinning victims alive to tying them to boards and pushing them slowly into furnaces.

Such savagery was not an aberration; it was policy. “Freedom is a bourgeois prejudice,” Lenin declared.

“In our opinion, morality is entirely subordinate to the interests of the class war. Everything is moral which is necessary for the annihilation of the old exploiting order and for uniting the proletariat. Our morality consists solely in close discipline and conscious warfare against the exploiters.”

Nor did such savagery end with the consolidation of power. It continued for decades. From Stalin’s purges and the Gulag archipelago to Chairman Mao’s great famine (which killed at least 36 million) to the firing squads of the Cuban revolution, to the killing fields of Cambodiaâ€"where the Khmer Rouge butchered more than a million people for such crimes against the proletariat as wearing glassesâ€"the red tide of Communism bathed the world in blood for much of the previous century. Estimates put its final death toll at close to 100 million.

And yet many here in the West showed great sympathy for such barbarity, because they thought the Communists had the right idea. Seduced by the Utopian vision of a classless society where every need is cared for, many in the West ignored, diminished or simply refused to believe the brutal facts on the ground. Not only at first, but up to and even after the collapse of Communism.

The Soviet Union was “bound together by a dream,” according to a TBS documentary near the end of Ronald Reagan’s presidency. Fidel Castro has “delivered the most to those who had the least,” reported Peter Jennings from Havana. American skepticism of Communism was “unfair” because the ideology “never had a fair chance,” said Andy Rooney on 60 Minutes. In Communist Russia, “you never saw faces like these: the poor, the homeless, and the desperation of the Russian winter,” said Barbara Walters in 1992, after the fall of the Soviet Union. “Is this what democracy does?” Two years later Morton Dean of CBS said the “workers’ paradise” of the former Soviet Union had become “a homeless hell.”

This was fairly standard fare for decades. Yet now people shake their heads and wonder how anyone could express sympathy with the Islamic State. Well, some in Muslim lands do, and many peopleâ€"people of good backgrounds with good educations and plenty to eatâ€"have been seduced by the Islamic State’s radical vision. Many more will be. Just as many were seduced by Communism’s radical vision. The ideology of ISIS might not be Marxist, but the appealâ€"paradise on Earthâ€"is the same. And so is the result: paradise’s opposite.

For all of Communism’s crimes, it is not unusual to see Chairman Mao turned into an object of kitsch, or to see Che Guevara’s profile hanging from a dorm window. Perhaps, if the Islamic State solidifies its caliphate, one day posters of Jihadi John will join him.

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  1. You know who else “believe[d] very strongly in the absolute rightness of their own Utopian vision for the world…”.

      1. They were still being fed to lions by the Romans at this point.

    1. Dr Claw?

      1. God emperor Leto II?

    2. Richard Dawkins?

    3. Elizabeth Stoker Bruenig?

    4. Dr. Sevrin in Star Trek TOS The Way to Eden?

    5. Serpentor?

    6. Jesus?

      1. I have lots of verses I can show that he knew the world wouldn’t turn into a utopia. “My Kingdom is not of this world…”

        As far as he said, and as far as Christians can see, his Kingdom is not “utopia”, at least not this side of death.

        1. Exactly. He said to expect suffering on a massive scale, and then this world would end. Not most people’s idea of ‘utopia’. But then most people who comment on him have little or no idea what he actually said.

    7. Gorlock, The Destroyer of Life ?

  2. Talk about throwing a squirrel into a room full of hungry dobermans!

  3. A. Barton Hinkleheimerschmidt
    His name is my name, too!
    Whenever we go out
    people always shout,
    “There goes A. Barton Hinkleheimerschmidt!”
    LALALALALALALA….

    For RC Dean, with love.

    1. Umm, appreciate it and all, but why me?

      1. I thought it was you who bitched about me posting it AD NAUSEUM a while back.

        Perhaps I was mistaken. It’s out of love, RC, regardless…:)

  4. Nor did such savagery end with the consolidation of power. It continued for decades. From Stalin’s purges and the Gulag archipelago to Chairman Mao’s great famine (which killed at least 36 million) to the firing squads of the Cuban revolution, to the killing fields of Cambodia?where the Khmer Rouge butchered more than a million people for such crimes against the proletariat as wearing glasses?the red tide of Communism bathed the world in blood for much of the previous century. Estimates put its final death toll at close to 100 million.

    But, but, but… The Crusades!!!!!!!

    1. You forgot to include the Spanish Inquisition.

  5. “The Soviet Union was “bound together by a dream,” according to a TBS documentary near the end of Ronald Reagan’s presidency.”

    Every one of the people bloviating in that paragraph should have been sentenced to live on the everyday food ration of even the best communist thug-government for a month.

    1. Why? they would just blame the Kulaks and the Wreckers for their misfortune. If only Stalin knew this was happening he would fix it.

      1. If they weren’t immediately executed for merely being educated.

        1. If they weren’t immediately executed for merely being educated.

          One look at their critical thinking skills and it is a pretty safe bet they wouldn’t waste the bullets. These heroes to the working class aren’t going to fellate themselves.

  6. It’s really pathetic that their are so many communist apologizers at this point anywhere. They really should be painted with the same brush as Holocaust deniers.

    1. How are communists less evil than Nazis?

        1. If anything they are worse.

          1. I lump them into SUPER EVIL and don’t worry much about which is worse. Both are totally unacceptable options, as are any options that fall in their category.

            1. I read Idle Hands as agreeing with you. don’t think there’s a disagreement

            2. Yea I’m pretty much in total agreement with you.

              1. Very well. We have a motion on the floor that Nazis and commies suck ass. Do I hear a second?

                1. What about nihilists?

                  1. Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it’s an ethos.

      1. Oh, a riddle! I give up. How?

        1. Because famous idiots like Andy Rooney think they’re just ducky!

          1. *** slaps knee **

          2. “Why is that?”

            /Andy Rooney voice

          3. Rooney also thought a tunnel from the US to Australia was a great idea.

            #PartyOfScience

  7. Mohammed Emwazi, the Islamic State butcher known as Jihadi John

    What’s with all these people changing their name to Mohammed? It’s like if you were to shout “Hey, Mohammed!” every head would turn since they’ve all got the same name.

    Malcovich?

    1. That’s why we have Mohammad, Muhammad, Mahomet, and Mahound, among others.

      1. And Mohammed’s twin brother, Mahmoud.

        1. “I’m Ewan, and this is my brother Ian.”

          1. “And my other brother Iain, and my other other brother John. He’s the outcast in the family.”

    2. The original Mohammed had exactly the same dream. And spread his dream with exactly the same methods.

  8. And the grisly beheadings, crucifixions, immolations? They can be justified on the same grounds as the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were: They will shock and awe the enemy into an earlier surrender, and thus save lives in the end. Mercy becomes a justification for cruelty.

    Uh uh. Truman dropped the bomb because he valued American soldiers’ lives more than Japanese civilians’ lives. If valuing the lives of your own citizens more than foreign citizens is merciful, then I suppose dropping the bomb was an act of mercy. I suspect that after all the bloodshed of the war, 100,000 civilian deaths for the enemy weren’t much of a consideration.

    ISIS is using barbarism to try to lure the US into a ground war to fulfill apocalyptic fundamentalist prophesy. They’re not trying to dissuade the U.S. from intervening at all. The anti-utopian stuff (and its allure to people who’ve fundamentally subbed arcane Hegelian gibberish and secularism for the pre-Enlightenment security of religion) is spot on, though.

    1. “Uh uh. Truman dropped the bomb because he valued American soldiers’ lives more than Japanese civilians’ lives. If valuing the lives of your own citizens more than foreign citizens is merciful, then I suppose dropping the bomb was an act of mercy.”

      There is more than compelling evidence that the nukes saved not only US lives but the lives of millions of Japanese compared to any other method of ending the war (except the one favored by Tony; the US surrenders to Japan)

      1. I wouldn’t doubt it, but I seriously doubt that Truman gave two shits about whether it saved or cost Japanese lives or that he had to seriously justify dropping the bomb on those grounds. A couple of days ago I read the delivery he gave after he dropped the bombs, and while it had the usual pandering praise-God talk, it was pretty clear that his justification was saving the lives of a bunch of American kids, not saving a single Japanese life.

        1. Agreed re: Truman.

          1. I’m here because of that.

        2. Nah, Japan was already ready to surrender. Truman had to show the world who was running the show now.

      2. except the one favored by Tony; the US surrenders to Japan

        Seriously?

        1. LynchPin1477|3.9.15 @ 12:38PM|#
          “Seriously?”
          Given Tony’s sophistry, it’s hard telling, but when I called him on his bullshit that the use of the bombs was a ‘crime’, and asked him for a method of ending the war with fewer Japanese deaths; that was his response.

      3. That’s what my Grand Dad always said. He was getting off a transport ship in South Korea the day the Japanese surrendered. He spent a year and a half as part of the occupying forces on the main islands just outside of Nagasaki. He said the caves in the mountains were full of old guns,ammunition,explosives, swords, and bows and arrows. He told me once when I was a teenager. “If we hadn’t dropped those bombs, you’d be over there fighting the Japanese right now.” That’s assuming I would have ever been born, since he was going to be one of the first American soldiers to land in Japan.

        1. Yep – My wife has relatives who were in the Marines back then – clearing out Japanese beaches and cites was going to be ugly.

          By getting Japan to surrender, we also avoided Russian occupation and probably partition.

          1. “By getting Japan to surrender, we also avoided Russian occupation and probably partition.”

            Most excellent point! Never thought or heard of that. Could be one of the reasons Stalin finally declared war on Japan, to be in position to grab half of it ala Korea. Imagine if we had a North Japan now, ruled by the Japanese equivalent of a Kim Il. Eww.

        2. To be fair, it would have been absolutely stupid to fight the Japanese in Japan (look at how “well” the invasion of Okinawa went).

          Honestly, a truly just war would have ended when the territory they stole would have been returned. The Japanese would have suffered horribly, and they are undoubtedly better off (as a whole) having 100,000 + civilians killed so they didn’t have to suffer for their government’s evil (and the inevitable Soviet occupation). That being said, it’s not our responsibility to save others from their own evil governments (Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam).

          That isn’t to say the idiots in our government wouldn’t have done the invasion anyhow, just that both of them were immoral and stupid.

    2. The Japanese were killing 100,000 Chinese every month in that side war.

      Anyone who says the atomic bombngs were crueler than any alternative (invasion? starvation blockade?) is afucking illiterate innumerate idiot of the first water.

  9. Your lunch time derp: I decided to test whether honesty is the best policy on the job hunt. Here are some comments to one of my headhunters from a potential employer:

    This guy has been fired twice in 3 years. He places this in his resume? The longest job he has had is maybe two years. It seems like he has a fundamental personality flaw. He also does not place his GPA on the document. No thanks.

    I am surprised that anyone would care to know the college GPA of someone who graduated 8 years ago.

    Is failing to lie, kiss ass, fake smile, and pretend to care a personality flaw?

    And this is why I walk on the treadmill. Walked 21.6 miles yesterday AND watched Dune movie with Patrick Stewart. A feat of incredible endurance, I say.

    1. I think I lost my comment – try again:

      21 miles! Holy shit! I do have some feedback for you on the resume. Will touch base shortly. In the meantime, continued wishes for good luck to you!

    2. There’s something about human resources directors.

      I was up for a job, once, and the Personnel lady explained to the headhunter that I wasn’t qualified because I didn’t have x, y, z…

      I contacted the line manager that was doing the hiring directly and set up an interview myself. The manager called my references, canceled her other interviews, and told the lady in Personnel to run my background check.

      It is a stupid system where job applicants are weeded out by people who are not managers, do not know the business, don’t know what it takes to excel in a position, …

      1. In the last 20 years we have moved from a productivity-based hiring model to a risk-avoidance one. It’s always safer for HR to say “No”.

        1. A dozen years ago I interviewed with an HR person to be the executive assistant to the Chairman & CEO of Caribou Coffee. In describing the position’s requirements, the woman kept saying, “The person would have to be able to do X. And she’d have to be able to do Y. And we would hant her to be able to Z.” Unfucking real.

    3. I decided to test whether honesty is the best policy on the job hunt.

      I think I see your problem.

      1. I interviewed once for a job at a glass factory in Ottawa IL. The tour was interesting and I liked the robot that stacked the glass panes. I felt like the interview was going well.

        We wrapped it up with lunch at a diner just outside the plant. There was plenty of laughing and swearing so I thought I could speak freely. They started talking about sports and asked me which one I liked. I said I don’t really give a fart in a high wind about sports.

        There was a good 30 second silence after that. 2 weeks later they thanked me for coming in.

        Oh well. The lunch was good.

        1. ugh. people who take sports that seriously are creepy.

    4. As a manager, I immediately reject anyone who does put a GPA on their resume. Your recruiter must be talking to Human Resources people, not actual useful people.

    5. “I decided to test whether honesty is the best policy on the job hunt.”

      You must be new to this planet

      1. But seriously, you can’t outright lie either. It’s kind of a tricky balancing (read: bullshitting) act to make yourself look the best without outright fabrications.

  10. It seems to me there are two phenomenon. One of them is the question of what drives the ISIS people over there, and the other is the question of what drives Western educated idealists like Jihad John.

    We shouldn’t conflate the two.

    For the Jihad Johns of the world, there are certain points in people’s lives when they’re extremely susceptible to somebody giving them certainty and a purpose in life. There’s a reason why cults and such concentrate on college campuses, too.

    Religion is an evolutionary artifact, and it still scratches certain itches like nothing else can. To say that modern Western culture teaches nihilism is going to far–but it does preach absolute uncertainty. You can’t be sure you’re right about anything.

    Religion gets past all that uncertainty for a lot of people. Even the atheists I talk to are grasping for some kind of certainty of their own–which doesn’t exist. Offer people some certainty and purpose at a crucial time in their lives, …

    That’s why Che Guevara ordered political prisoners executed and thought Stalin didn’t go far enough. That’s why Tom Cruise is a Scientologist. That’s why some of the hardcore kids I knew became Nazis and went over the top. That’s almost certainly why Jihad John is so sure that what he’s doing is right.

    1. Re: Ken Shultz,

      Religion gets past all that uncertainty for a lot of people. Even the atheists I talk to are grasping for some kind of certainty of their own–which doesn’t exist.

      Indeed, I’ve met one too many atheists who simply replaced one religion (theological) for another (statolatry). These same atheists have the gall (or are ignorant enough) to call themselves “skeptics.”

    2. Jihad John is a criminal sociopath. What he found in Islam is a religion that tells him he’s going to heaven for acting like a criminal. Why wouldn’t be be a zealot?

      1. As much as I suspect you’d like it to be so, Islam does not teach that you get to go to heaven for acting like a criminal.

        I think Jihad John was looking for absolute certainty, and he found an ideology and people that would reenforce his childish desire for certainty in ISIS.

    3. Let me guess, any murderous belief system is religious by definition?

      1. Any belief system that preaches absolute certainty can become dangerous.

        I don’t care if it’s Pol Pot or Adolf Hitler, Osama bin Laden or the Unibomber, the danger starts when people become absolutely convinced that they’re right.

        I’ve known fundamentalist Christians who will admit to having struggled with their faith in times of turmoil. Some of them were willing to admit that faith doesn’t exist unless it’s against a background of uncertainty. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet…

        I’ve listened to numerous Muslims, at mosque and elsewhere, talk about how no one knows what God is going to do for any one person on Judgement Day. God forgives those he forgives, and he condemns those he condemns–all for his own reasons. Woe be it to anyone who intentionally helps God’s enemies, and woe be it to anyone who harms someone–in the name of Allah–that God intends to forgive.

        Show me a Christian fundamentalist abortion clinic bomber, and I’ll show you someone who has little or no doubt that what he is doing is right. Show me a Muslim terrorist or suicide bomber, and I’ll show you someone who also has little or no doubt.

        In both cases, there’s a line crossed–and that line is when the person in question loses all doubt.

        1. “Any belief system that preaches absolute certainty can become dangerous.”

          What if there’s a consensus to go along with this belief system?

  11. What? Tony hasn’t come along yet to exclaim that we’re the violent utopians, and that, in contrast, progressives are just reasonable, reality-based folks?

  12. Eric Hoffer

    Everything on this topic is basically footnotes to ‘The True Believer’

    people really should read that book. in high school even. It might even provide some secondary benefit, showing young people how well the English language works when you write sentences ‘carefully’.

    1. Yeah, I gave my nephew a copy when he was about 15. Haven’t seen a better explanation of the phenomenon yet.

      1. Good on you. Its (IMHO) probably one of the most useful books a young person can read before they get old enough to where ‘political postures’ become the latest fashion trend among their peers.

  13. Yeah, I know. the Soviet Union transformed a backwards monarchy into a world super power, almost single-handedly defeated hitlerean fascism, brought about universal literacy, gave women the right to vote, legalized abortion 18 years before the US, put the first man in space, put the first women in space, championed anti-colonialist movements worldwide. Other than that it was a bad idea.

    1. Other than that and the millions of dead bodies and poverty it was a bad idea.

      anti-colonialist movements
      I think the Afghanis and most of Eastern Europe would disagree with you on that.

      1. and the millions of dead bodies and poverty

        Kulaks and wreckers.

      2. That’s probably my favorite. Sure, it was a brutal colonial power, but it championed anti-colonialist movements worldwide. So long as it served their interests.

        1. Do you guys know who Patrice lumumba or Salvador Allende was?

          1. american socialist|3.9.15 @ 2:49PM|#
            “Do you guys know who Patrice lumumba or Salvador Allende was?”

            Yes, slimebag, we do; two more thugs. And?

          2. Allende was a scumbag who wrecked the chilean economy

    2. 1. Britain, France, Germany, Japan and many other countries modernized without mass murder.

      2. The USSR was allied with Germany before the war and nearly lost due to Stalin’s incompetence.

      3. Many other countries achieved mass literacy without mass murder.

      4. The right to vote for 1 political party in mostly uncontested elections. By the way, which election did Stalin win?

      5. Considering the number of people they were killing, it doesn’t surprise me they had no qualms about abortion.

      6. Big whoop.

      7. See 6.

      8. They championed communist movements world wide and turned eastern Europe into a colonial empire.

      Authentic frontier derp.

      1. Apparently, in american socialist’s mind, winning a nationalist dick-measuring contest is more important than millions of dead people. Should tell you all you need to know about his priorities and moral convention right there.

        1. So, American politicians in 1957 didn’t put a lot of emphasis on the fact that the Soviet Union launched Sputnik?

          When we are talking about the brutality of the Soviet Union or the fact that communist leaders said some pretty nasty things can we also bring up the two million Vietnamese that we’re killed by Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon and the hundreds of thousands killed in Iraq by Bush the Dumber? As for nasty quotes, I’d be happy to post some by prominent american political and military leaders who were perfectly willing to irradiate large parts of the world over Chinese intervention in Korea or if the Russians ever stepped foot into West Berlin.

          1. When we are talking about the brutality of the Soviet Union or the fact that communist leaders said some pretty nasty things can we also bring up the two million Vietnamese that we’re killed by Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon and the hundreds of thousands killed in Iraq by Bush the Dumber?

            Sure. You won’t find many people here who will defend those things or try to sweep them under the rug.

            1. Is that what I’m doing here with respect to the Soviet Union?

              1. Either you are lying or so profoundly stupid you actually believe your points. Make your choice.

              2. american socialist|3.9.15 @ 2:09PM|#
                “Is that what I’m doing here with respect to the Soviet Union?”

                You’re trying every bit of mendacity to excuse what was the most brutal, thuggish, murderous piece of work in history. And you’re claiming some sort of moral position to do so.
                You may know people stupid enough to buy those lies, but you’re not going to find them here, you miserable excuse for humanity.

              3. “Is that what I’m doing here with respect to the Soviet Union?”

                What you’re doing here is being the Alan Colmes of reason.com. At least he makes money off of being a joke.

          2. I’m sorry, where did I offer up attempts to revise America’s war record? Oh, that’s right, I didn’t, you’re the only one offering up empty apologia for your favourite totalitarian regime. I love how you’re so stupid that you think a Whataboutism is actually a substantial argument. What a surprise, you hold one nation to a high standard and offer up apologia for the other. The only benefit of a communist system is that whatever KGB-esque secret police would at least put down useful idiots like yourself.

            the Russians ever stepped foot into West Berlin.

            So the guy who whines about American aggression has zero problems with Soviet aggression? Hey look, more examples of American Socialist’s outstanding integrity. It’s almost like you’re a dishonest hypocrite or something.

            So, American politicians in 1957 didn’t put a lot of emphasis on the fact that the Soviet Union launched Sputnik?

            What’s relevant is that during this time the Soviet Union was having trouble feeding its citizens, You’re so stupid you think an example that blatantly shows the idiocy of a centralized, state economy is proof of its quality.

            Of course, had the Nazis had any success in their idiotic wars, they’d be the first ones in space. I’m sure you’ll be offering up apologia for their atrocities right? Millions of dead are nothing as long as someone successfully completes an orbit.

      2. 2. You forgot to also mention the Soviet Union was given a huge amount of material aide by the US, especially trucks. The myth that the Soviets won the war single handily is a favorite lefty lie

        1. I’m not going to bother chasing the source this evening; the USSR got ~1/3 of its war material from the west. And Stalin denied it had any effect at all.
          Stalin was a lying POS, as is commie-kid.

    3. You forgot to mention how it only warred against Hitler after first warring with Hitler against Poland.

      1. Hi,

        Did you see this? “Other than that it was a bad idea.”

        1. Hi, you ignorant piece of shit!
          american socialist|3.9.15 @ 1:18PM|#
          “Hi,
          Did you see this? “Other than that it was a bad idea.”

          Oh, yes we did, and you remain an ignorant piece of shit.

        2. Oh so aside from the economic, social, and global ramifications of communism it was acceptable? please do share more of this wisdom.

        3. “Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”

    4. Ah, so american socialist is the same person as that girl who thinks imprisoning poor people for any reason is fine, since they get free healthcare in jail.

      1. ESB. My answer to the Utopian idealist question above

    5. “legalized abortion”

      With no age limit!

      You could be aborted in a dirty cellar at any time.

    6. Trigger warning needed. I think i just lost IQ points for reading that wall of lies

    7. Hi, you stupid pile of shit!
      american socialist|3.9.15 @ 12:56PM|#
      “Yeah, I know. the Soviet Union transformed a backwards monarchy into a world super power,”
      By purposely murdering tens of millions of its own citizens, but to slimy assholes, the ends justify the means, right, you ignorant piece of shit?

      “almost single-handedly defeated hitlerean fascism,”
      Yeah, those Studebaker trucks were built right there in St. Pete, right, you ignorant piece of shit?

      “brought about universal literacy, gave women the right to vote, legalized abortion 18 years before the US, put the first man in space, put the first women in space, championed anti-colonialist movements worldwide. Other than that it was a bad idea.”
      We have:
      1) Bullshit
      2) The ‘right to vote’ in one-party elections
      3) Legalized if there were a doctor somewhere
      4) By killing millions of its own citizens
      5) Yeah, tell that to the Hungarians in 1956
      So, no, other than that it remains a bad idea to anyone with two brain cells, which obviously leaves you out, you ignorant piece of shit.

    8. The Soviet Union collapsed because the people who lived under it were disgusted with it.

      1. The real shame is that it collapsed before the USSR could starve commie-kid to death.

    9. American socialist, a person who was just whining the other day about Nick Gillespie’s integrity, is now offer up apologia for a murderous regime responsible for the deaths of millions. Shows how much he actually values ‘integrity’ or his comrades.

      1. Well, no one can claim Stalin didn’t hold to his convictions. It’s a type of integrity.

    10. Man they defeated a country that was getting the fuck bombed out of it by everybody and was running out of men, machines, and oil. The Soviet Union didn’t defeat the Nazis, the Soviet Winter and Hitler’s stupidity defeated the Nazis. Not to mention that they just straight up waged a war of attrition.

      Also, when did abortion become the fucking standard of freedom. I can think of lots of things that are more fucking important than abortion.

      They may have put the first people into space but they did jack shit with it afterwards.

      They colonized the fuck out of the planet. Unless that is you’ve never heard of any nation in Western Europe, SE Asia, China, Cuba, etc.

      They also collapsed, partly because of the financial burdens that couldn’t keep up with and also because the Soviet Union was an EMPIRE you dumb shit and the various conquered peoples wanted to get the fuck out of that shitty mess.

      Not to mention that they killed shit tons of people, just because they were born to the wrong ethnicity or because they didn’t want to tow the gov’t line.

      1. Um, I think you meant Eastern Europe.

        /pedant

        1. Good catch.

        2. But they wanted that too.

  14. Let’s not be too quick to condemn violent utopianism. At the moment it looks like the only force capable of challenging the corrupt and cynical regimes of the region such as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. How does the author feel about this regime, for example? If I know Americans, he supports it if only from a committment to maintaining stability and the status quo. He feels threatened by any challenge to the monarchs and princes. He identifies with them over the people whom they rule. ISIS and the Jihad Johns go the other way. That’s what makes them ‘communist.’ Their identification with the masses. In fact they are more pro-capitalist than the secularist regimes they oppose.

    1. “That’s what makes them ‘communist.’ Their identification with the masses.”

      By ‘identification with’, you mean ‘murder of‘?

      1. “Their identification with the masses.”

        I mean their oppostition to corrupt and cynical regimes. They are violent and illiberal and more than capable of justifying a campaign of terror against the population they identify with. There’s absolutely nothing new here.

      2. Gilmore,
        You do know that trueman admits to flat out lying to support a POV, correct?

    2. Ill be quick to judge it. FUCK YOUR UTOPIAN IDEALS! FUCK IT, IT WILL NEVER WORK.
      In fact i dont even believe in any utopia, we create and are 100% responsible for our own standing in life. Life isn’t fair and its well past time the Physically matured children grew up and accepted this fact

      1. If you want to oppose a corrupt and cynical regime, and there are plenty in the region, utopian ideals can be very helpful. History shows this again and again. Russian revolution, boxer uprising, overthrow of the Shah, just to name a few.

        I understand you are a conservative and oppose change, people get that way as they age, as you point out. The nations in the region are packed with disaffected, dispossessed youth. Their embrace of unfairness lies decades in the future.

        1. So you view the Russian and Iranian Revolutions as good things? I’m sure there’s a few million dead people that would disagree with you.

          1. No revolution is a good thing. That said, seeing the end of the Tsars and Shahs was a wonderful thing. You some kind of monarchist or something?

    3. mtrueman|3.9.15 @ 12:57PM|#
      “Let’s not be too quick to condemn violent utopianism.”…

      You admit that you lie to support your supposed argument; WIH do you think anyone should credit anything you post?
      Get lost.

      1. ” WIH do you think anyone should credit anything you post?”

        I don’t care if they credit it or not. All I ask is that they read it and mull it over, just as you have done. In return I promise to respond to any comments thoughtfully and politely, again just as you have done.

        1. mtrueman|3.9.15 @ 2:56PM|#
          “I don’t care if they credit it or not. All I ask is that they read it and mull it over, just as you have done. ”

          You’re an admitted liar; nothing you post is worth reading.

    4. Yes, if the choice is between the status quo/House of Saud and ISIS, I back the status quo.

      1. “Yes, if the choice is between the status quo/House of Saud and ISIS, I back the status quo.”

        Well, of course. But the choice isn’t between ISIS and the house of Saud. There’s nothing forcing you into accepting this framing of the region’s potential future. Very few people actually benefit from it.

        1. What exactlg is your point? Libertarians are not fans of dynastic monarchy in Saudi Arabia or anywhere else. From a realpolitik perspective some here might prefer the Saudis to ISIS to avoid public crucifixions and other great fun that comes along from violent utopian ideologies that you champion. If the Saudis were to develop their own interpretation of the rule of law, organically, then libertarians would obviously support that over Saudi tyranny. Stop playing games & trying to make libertarians (WE ARENT CONSERVATIVES BTW) appear to be on the side of human rights abuses; such a position could only be based on a deep misunderstanding of what libertarianism is.

          1. ” violent utopian ideologies that you champion.”

            I am not championing any utopian ideologies. Here is my point: if you want to oppose a corrupt and cynical regime, even one outside the Muslim world, you need to hold up a promise of something less corrupt and less cynical. A utopian vision in other words. What are the alternatives? Waiting for an organic movement that promotes drug use, pornography and food trucks? Waiting for the youth to accept and embrace unfairness and the status quo? The fact that some here explicitly voice support of the Saudi regime (and go unrebuked) shows how little Libertarians have to offer.

            Condemning ISIS is pretty easy. I imagine it’s done on CNN just about every day. But not even to mention the horrors that ISIS is opposing, like the author, is deeply conservative.

            1. ISIS is not opposing any horrors. You have no understanding of what you are speaking of. ISIS is mad because the Islamic countries are not hardcore enough for them. They hate the Sauds because they think they are too influenced by the West. They want an even more extreme version of Islam to be put into place across the whole of the Mid East.

              They aren’t fighting Assad because they think he is oppressive. They are fighting him because he is running a dictatorship instead of a theocracy. They fight Iran because they are Sunnis and Iran is Shia. They are fighting Iraq because they want the Western style gov’t gone and replaced with a theocracy. They fight the Kurds to do the same, and so on and so on and so on.

              You have a very deeply flawed view of ISIS and the Mid East. To say that they are fighting some sort of oppression is laughable.

              1. “To say that they are fighting some sort of oppression is laughable.”

                Another apologist for the oppressive regimes of the region surfaces; Just as I expected.

              2. cfskyrim|3.9.15 @ 5:05PM|#
                …”You have no understanding of what you are speaking of.”…

                Trueman freely admits to lying to promote an argument. There is no reason to engage someone who will cheerfully lie.

                1. Ahh the ole, if I say A is worse than B, then I am obviously condoning B argument. You know, I specifically remember reading an article by Richard Dawkins on HuffPo (probably your favorite source of propaganda), ranting about how people that do what you just did are fucking retarded.

                  Of course the regimes of the Mid East are oppressive. That however is not why ISIS is fighting them. If you haven’t noticed or choose to wallow in your ignorance, ISIS is just as bad if not worse than the regimes that you keep jerking off over.

                  1. “Of course the regimes of the Mid East are oppressive. ”

                    Finally someone besides myself will admit this. Nice to see some agreement from you.

                    I think you are simplifying things, attributing human qualities to something inhuman. “ISIS hates the Saudis because…” People have the capacity to hate, and bureaucracies and organizations don’t have this capacity. Attributing human qualities to non humans is anthropomorphism. If you continue to read Dawkins, you might learn that this is a bad course to take. Everyone who has joined ISIS has their own motives for doing so. Unless you are a sloppy collectivist, you must agree to this as well. It might take it while, it took you hours to admit that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was an oppressive regime.

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  16. After all, if you hold the keys to the perfection of life on Earth, then anyone who stands in your way is actively depriving everyone else of that outcome and thereby ensuring the continued suffering of millions.

    Just ask your average Marxian cultist. Or your average Climate Change/Environmentalist cultist – same shit.

    “Freedom is a bourgeois prejudice,” Lenin declared.

    Lenin was the type of demagogue that burdened himself very little with the responsibility of being logically-consistent in his statements.

  17. Hi mr. Hinkle,

    I pay pretty close attention to 20th century history. I’m trying to think of a domestic issue that American communists advocated that wasn’t either a.) adopted by subsequent administrations (Medicare, minimum wage, social security, voting rights) or b.) a good idea ( staying out of the Vietnam war, reducing military spending, civil rights).

    Maybe the key difference in your strained analogy– and the ambivalence about communism among people who actually think– is that American communists were trying to pull the country into the 21st century and Isis is trying to pull Iraq back to the 8th century.

    1. american socialist|3.9.15 @ 1:32PM|#
      “Hi mr. Hinkle,
      I pay pretty close attention to 20th century history.”
      Either that is complete bullshit, or you’re so stupid you cannot understand what you read.

      “I’m trying to think of a domestic issue that American communists advocated that wasn’t either a.) adopted by subsequent administrations (Medicare, minimum wage, social security, voting rights) or b.) a good idea ( staying out of the Vietnam war, reducing military spending, civil rights).”
      Gee, I’m trying to think of one single piece of murderous activity that wasn’t practiced by the commies who actually had power rather than the worthless claims of those who espouse some creed or other. I’m drawing a blank.

      “Maybe the key difference in your strained analogy– and the ambivalence about communism among people who actually think– is that American communists were trying to pull the country into the 21st century and Isis is trying to pull Iraq back to the 8th century.”
      Maybe the key difference is that Isis hasn’t been nearly as successful in the field of mass murder compared to commies, you ignorant piece of shit.

      1. American commies we’re committing mass murder? Where? Like when they were marching in Selma?

        1. american socialist|3.9.15 @ 2:11PM|#
          “American commies we’re committing mass murder? Where? Like when they were marching in Selma?”

          So, shitpile, are we in agreement that reading English isn’t one of you skills?
          Let me help you: I compared the actuality of communism compared to the worthless mouthings of those who professed such beliefs, and you, as a stupid piece of shit, either lack the ability to read and form concepts or are willfully attempting some form or sophistry.
          Now, shitpile; fool or knave? Or both?

          1. “worthless mouthings”

            I get it… The Freedom Riders. Those communists did like to talk a lot. This is like joining ISIS?!?

            1. american socialist|3.9.15 @ 2:54PM|#
              “I get it… The Freedom Riders.”

              No, you’re too stupid to “get it”, slime ball.

    2. “I pay pretty close attention to 20th century history.”

      *Offers up massive amounts of revisionist propaganda lies about the Soviet Union above*

      Thanks, but you have zero credibility, and the record has shown your dishonesty.

      Of course, you are so profoundly stupid that you fail to see the relevance of Hinkle’s criticism of utopian argumentation while devolving into empty mealy mouthed proclaimations about ‘pulling the country into the 21st century’.

  18. my friend’s sister-in-law makes $63 /hour on the internet . She has been fired from work for 6 months but last month her payment was $16955 just working on the internet for a few hours. go to the website…….

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  19. “…the red tide of Communism bathed the world in blood for much of the previous century. Estimates put its final death toll at close to 100 million.”

    And yet there are still those who seek out marxist professors, and worse, people who vote for them.
    Words fail when describing that level of stupidity.

  20. Sick isn’t it. For those who wish to believe in these evil groups with their hate-filled mantras..go for it. BUT I truly believe we should ship out anyone who sympathizes with these groups to either live with them or die by their hands don’t you?? If they love and respect and admire them so much then WHY do these same people and groups HIDE in America free from danger, torture, and death? Seriously…I am sick and tired of these losers in this country “not putting up” with all their superficial and cowardly speeches and demonstrations. It’s quite easy to be hateful and full of bravado in our country where this nation is tolerant to a fault. How about putting your proverbial money where your mouths are and leave this safe haven and go with your ‘great brothers and sisters’ over at hell on Earth….I wish you luck…hopefully they don’t decide to skin you alive or behead you or worse….what do you say big men and women in the USA….c’mon…I am directly challenging you to leave the US and go fight with them, live with them, kill with them…talk is cheap…

  21. The Two Hands

    Also visible in the Animal kingdom, the brutal Strength is no better or worse than the deadly Deception.

    Two are the Hands to cross and shape our World
    to mold It like a vase of clay and put their own seal
    the scepter of command, illusion of reward
    to drive at will one Destiny with no steering wheel.

    In the last World war, the Hand of Strength and Hand of Deception have crossed once again.
    Strength personified by the Axis and Deception by the Allies.
    Gestapo versus CIA.
    One long scar still bleeds over this Planet.
    With Strength defeated, the winners of the War have extended their cunning Hand, robbed the whole World and transformed each town in a place where Deception is the only reality.
    Two new blocks were soon formed right after the War.
    UK and USA celebrated Capitalism while Russia instead was infatuated with Communism.
    The Two Hands had only changed gloves.

    In the Animal World in which we live, those Two Hands belong today to the CIA which is a virtual State independent from any government and precursor of a New World Order.
    There should be no doubt in regard to whom are masters of Strength and Deception and who is the Beast at the top of this Animal kingdom.
    Although a New World Order will also be the natural end game only for a Humankind that will continue on the same footsteps and go on to believe at the same values.

    http://www.wavevolution.org/en/humanwaves.html

  22. In northern Syria, the struggle is led by the Democratic Union party, a radically democratic, feminist, leftwing force and an affiliate of the Kurdistan Workers’ party. Once Stalinist, the PKK has evolved, now drawing inspiration from the libertarian socialism of the US theoretician Murray Bookchin. “This is a genuine revolution,” according to the anarchist thinker David Graeber, who has visited the cantons. He has spoken of how the eventual aim is to give all citizens six weeks of police training, with the idea of abolishing the police. In a Syria being shredded by a secular dictatorship and reactionary fundamentalists, is an anarchist enclave being forged?

    http://www.theguardian.com/com…..na-hoffman

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