Cop in Milwaukee Fired After Shooting Unarmed Mentally Ill Man 14 Times; Could Get Job Back

MPD

Six months after Officer Christopher Manney shot and killed an unarmed Dontre Hamilton, the officer's been fired by the Milwaukee Police Department for, the police chief Edward Flynn says, instigating the fight that ended with Hamilton being shot at 14 times.

"There's got to be a way for us to hold ourselves accountable absent putting cops in jail for making mistakes," Flynn said, saying Manney shouldn't have tried to frisk Hamilton just because he seemed mentally ill but that he didn't think there was any "malice" involved in the shooting.

Flynn's decision was based on an internal affairs review but other investigations are continuing. The Associated Press reports:

Hamilton's family has said he was diagnosed with schizophrenia but was not violent, and they doubt he struck Manney. They called Wednesday for police to release photographs documenting the officer's injuries. They also said that while the firing was "a victory," they would continue to lead and participate in marches in an effort to persuade the district attorney to bring criminal charges.

"Yes, he was fired, but he took a man's life," Hamilton's mother, Maria, said during a separate news conference.

While the A.P. reports about the independent investigation required under a new state law in the past tense, the results of that investigation have not yet been released. The father of a previous Wisconsin police shooting victim used a portion of his settlement to lobby for the law.

Unfortunately, Milwaukee TV station WISN reports that a number of the "outside" investigators working for the state are retired Milwaukee Police Department employees.

The Milwaukee police union protested Manney's firing. Cops fired in Milwaukee have gotten their jobs back before thanks to the police bill of rights.

Comments

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"There's got to be a way for us to hold ourselves accountable absent putting cops in jail for making mistakes"

Comment bait!

[croaker]

Once again demonstrating that cops believe themselves above the law.

Cops need to go to jail more often than they do. If they don't, eventually they'll cross a family that decides to take justice into their own hands.

[gaoxiaen]

Damn 9mm's. It should have required only six shots.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

The peanut gallery chimes in with predictable results: http://www.policeone.com/offic.....eadly-OIS/

[MegaloMonocle]

sloop! Where in Texas, and for how long?

[sloopyinTEXAS]

Right now I'm in Canton. I'll be leaving here,in a few weeks for somewhere between Abilene and Stephenville or Weatherford as I'll be based in Cisco. Should be there for about a year I guess. Then to Houston for a year.

[MegaloMonocle]

North Texas for a year? You can do worse, my friend.

Houston for year? Here's where "worse" comes in. 😉

While you're in Texas, in all seriousness, try to get down to Big Bend country. It is remarkable countryside all around there. If you're super-lucky, you might catch a wildflower bloom in Big Bend (in the spring if they have good rain), which is truly a wonder of the world.

They also have some kind of off-the-chain road race on the highways down there. If you're a car guy, its worth a go.

http://www.bborr.com/

[Raven Nation]

Houston for year? Here's where "worse" comes in

Although, apparently, the place to be:

http://www.city-journal.org/2014/24_3_houston.html

[croaker]

Not if you're a pastor or minister.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

I'd be willing to bet I spend a lot of time in the Permian Basin through the next year. Especially if oil keeps dropping, since those exploration and pipeline guys will be moving gear like crazy. But I do expect to get way down south a fair bit as well. I'll keep it in mind.

As for houston, I should actually be a little west of Katy, so I plan on living away from the city.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

And if I'm stuck in town, at least I can use any bathroom I want...for,now.

[Episiarch]

Right now I'm in Canton

Sloopy!
The man they call Sloopy!
He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man and he gave him what for.
Our love for him now, ain't hard to explain,
The hero of Canton, the man they call Sloopy!

You always did remind me of Jayne.

[Suthenboy]

Hey dude, I will be in Canton saturday.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

You're shitting me. I'm going to Houston this weekend.

Well, shit.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

Are you here often, cause I should be in town for three more weeks?

[Suthenboy]

My brother lives in Grapeland. We are driving there tomorrow and them the lot of us are going to Canton for the Ren Fest.

Too bad. I am almost never in Canton. However, I do occasionally go to Houston to see my father and often to my Brother's in Grapeland. Maybe another time we can meet up. If you could get to Grapeland sometime we can burn some gunpowder. I always bring a rifle or two and a brace of pistols.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"There should be laws that protect us from crap like this. If an officer gets his pay and job back, the agency should be on the hook also if the officer loses his house, vehicles and pay double damages if his credit is ruined as well. And most of this money should be taken out the ass hats wallets that rush to stupid descisions like this. That way these out of touch politically motivated policy makers are not so quick to fire someone."

[sloopyinTEXAS]

It's as if these pricks think Terry itself grants them reasonable suspicion to do a search. Because no sane person considers someone laying on a bench as reasonable suspicion to detain and/or do a Terry frisk.

I hate these fuckers more every damn day.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

But I appreciate his insight that going after an offending cop's salary may deter him from persecuting the innocent.

[croaker]

I would just love to put a packet sniffer on policeone.com and start matching comments to IP addresses, departments, and badge numbers. Wonder what will happen when the city councils and county board start getting hard copies of policeone comments with their officers identified.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

I'm sure someone on here could pull it off. Send the comments to the local paper though. Micky councils would just fap to the comments.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

City councils.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

No, you had it right the first time.

[Paper Wasp]

...[the police chief] didn't think there was any "malice" involved in the shooting.

The victim was shot 14 times. I'd hate to see what the cop would've done if there had been malice.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

Shot 14 times by a cop means he probably discharged his weapon no less than 35 times, based,on a generous 40% hit ratio, which cops rarely attain.

Yeah, no malice at all.

[sarcasmic]

Or he emptied his weapon at point blank range.

[MegaloMonocle]

Powder burns on the corpse, I guarantee.

[sarcasmic]

Charged doesn't mean indicted, indicted doesn't mean convicted, convicted doesn't mean sentenced, and fired usually means rehired with back-pay.

If you are a public servant who murders a member of the public that is.

[MegaloMonocle]

They called Wednesday for police to release photographs documenting the officer's injuries.

Remember when we were told that the Ferguson cop had a blown orbit or some other serious injuries, and it turned out to be a lie?

Pix or it didn't happen, copper.

[The Late P Brooks]

"There's got to be a way for us to hold ourselves accountable absent putting cops in jail for making mistakes," Flynn said

If I can be locked up for "mistakenly" executing somebody who pissed me off, you and your trigger happy thugs can, too.

Fuck the police, their unions, and every politician who licks their balls and signs off on their contracts.

[The Late P Brooks]

a number of the "outside" investigators working for the state are retired Milwaukee Police Department employees.

No

fucking

way.

[sarcasmic]

In most states you must be an ex-cop to acquire a license to be an investigator.

[Ted S.]

Yes fucking way. 🙁

[The Late P Brooks]

It's as if these pricks think Terry itself grants them reasonable suspicion to do a search summarily execute civilians/b.

hth

[widget]

A modern cop needs a 95+ IQ and a temperate disposition. They are very well payed. A bit too much, but I'll let that go. As a taxpayer, in an economy with high unemployment, I wouldn't think we'd have to scrape the curb clean coming with people to meet this profile.

[BuSab Agent]

The people who would be good cops don't want to be cops. Only the wrong sorts of people want the job.

[sarcasmic]

Some good people seek out the job. But they are quickly corrupted or forced out.

[Suthenboy]

Wait, didn't I read earlier today that some cop was complaining that the public no longer trusts them because of journalists? See, its all journalists fault. If they would not have reported this story and thousands more like them, we would think the police are our friends.

[Paul.]

OT: Seattle Woman's husband received handgun for Christmas. Wife follows with 8000 word essay, browbeats husband into return it, because statistics.

*drops microphone*

But a handgun? In the city?

I'd written enough articles for local television news to know that no good could come of that.

A national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study vindicated my position: "Regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home," the abstract reported, "having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide.?"

Rationally, Brett agreed.

http://www.seattlemag.com/arti.....ot-own-gun

[Heroic Mulatto]

I'm glad that I've reached a point in my life where I would not wish harm upon Ms. Anderson.

I'm going to leave it at that.

[Paul.]

I'm told by the left that there's a culture of sexual assault in this country. She has a right to hope that a quick call to 911 will cure all ills.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Is this a good reply to her though? She'd likely answer that with easy gun availability while she could arm herself for protection a potential attacker could as well.

[Paul.]

Of course that's the argument. If your rapist goes through the house first, looking for a firearm with which to use against you.

The point is simple. There are going to be cases where you won't be able to get to your firearm before your attacker has you at a deadly disadvantage (the link above is probably an example of that). But when you have a realistic choice between: Get to gun, or get to phone to call 911, my choice will be get to the gun every.single.time.

Once gun is in hand, you the assess and if possible, call 911.

The anti-gun crowd has told women in my response link above that if they find themselves in that situation, their only choice should be to call 911. And they're told that with contempt and a handwave.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I'm sorry, I think I put my point poorly. Here's what I was getting at: when I've argued with gun control supporters that they should want to make it easier to get guns because women could protect themselves from all these rapey men out there, they sometimes reply that making it easier to get a gun would not only allow the potential victim to get a gun easier, but also the potential assailant, so it's a 'wash' at best.

[Paul.]

Oh, you were talking about "the gun market". Yes. As a slobbering "gun rights absolutist" I have zero problem admitting that if guns were made illegal across the board in this country, that gun violence would drop. It would not reach zero, but it would drop.

However, it would not reach zero. And an attacker that gets the drop on you, in the right circumstances, doesn't need a gun to kill you, as the tragedy in my second link proves.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Gun violence may drop - big may, because the vast majority of gun violence involves gangs and the illicit drug trade, and those guys have already proven they have no problem smuggling illegal goods - but all other violence is going to go up to compensate. Maybe way up.

[Derpetologist]

I see someone believes that correlation is causation.

Yes, all shootings involve guns. That does not mean guns cause shootings anymore than cars cause car accidents.

The pic is priceless. The shrew has her best frown on and the somewhat embarrassed husband is looking off into space.

Extra special derp:

"The gun would live at his brother's Capitol Hill apartment, which has a gun safe"

She is describing the gun as though it is some kind of wild animal.

And behold the derp cherry on top:

"The trouble with owning a gun, or carrying it," Brett explains, "is that you can start relating to the world in that way."
We didn't want to live in a reality where the gun?and violence?became our go-to option for dealing with major problems; a lens through which we see the world. Even if that problem was an armed intruder.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

That last part is pure gold.

[croaker]

That last part is a Darwin Award winner.

Someone who should die before his bad genes are passed on to the next generation.

[gaoxiaen]

At least everyone knows whose house is safe to burglarize.

[Derpetologist]

They don't want violence to be the first option, and yet as progs, there is 100% chance they would send armed thugs to shut down a bakery that refused to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple.

[Paul.]

That's state violence, therefore democratic.

[Trouser-Pod]

Yep.

I will say, though, that if they want to be martyrs for the non-violence side of things, fine.

Just don't put that burden on me,or anyone else.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"Just don't put that burden on me,or anyone else."

The best part is, how do they think gun control laws will be enforced? With a lens other than guns and violence?

[Heroic Mulatto]

One of the intellectual founders of Voluntaryism, Robert LeFevre, was a no-exceptions, no-kidding for-reals pacifist.

According to Robert Smith, LeFevre became convinced of the power of non-violent resistance after a run-in with a union. "I remember him telling the story," says Smith, "of union goons busting into a radio station he worked at. And he just fell flat on the ground and lay there. They were so nonplussed they walked out without beating the shit out of him. That convinced him of the principles of nonviolence."

I wonder who Ms. Anderson would support in that situation.

[Paul.]

That convinced him of the principles of nonviolence."

*shakes head*

He was lucky the goons weren't serious.

[sarcasmic]

They don't want to use violence themselves. That's what their god government is for.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"Honey, that noise, I think it's a burglar!"

"You must be right. What should we do, sounds like they're coming this way?!"

"Well, remember honey, whatever we do, let's not start thinking about this, and other, problem in a lens where violence is a go-to option!"

[Episiarch]

All gun controllers eventually devolve into animism, because they have to to maintain their beliefs. The instant the gun is just a tool, a machine, almost every argument they have falls apart, because then they'd have to ban cars or knives or tennis rackets or anything that could ever be used as a weapon, since that's what their arguments come down to.

Without animism, there is no gun control movement. Other than politicians who don't want the proles to have guns as a status symbol thing.

[sarcasmic]

Cars aren't manufactured with the intention of killing people.

Same with knives or tennis rackets or hammers or whatever.

Guns are. They serve no other purpose. Well, other than target shooting and other fun things that people do with them. But their number one intended purpose is to kill. To kill in hunting, defense (only government people should use them for defense because they're government), and murder.

Remember, it's all about intentions.

[Paul.]

Which is funny because FAR more people are killed in car accidents than killed with guns (excluding suicides which don't fucking count for obvious reasons).

[sarcasmic]

INTENTIONS!

[sloopyinTEXAS]

BAN ALL SWIMMING POOLS NOW!!!!!

[Rev-Match]

Wife follows with 8000 word essay, browbeats husband into return it, because statistics.

I would file for the divorce instantaneously.

[Paul.]

I think he's the breadwinner.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You saw that dude's picture?

[Paul.]

I saw his LinkedIn page. That's why I think he may be the breadwinner.

[Paul.]

A national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study vindicated my position:

And I'm still waiting for the Ebola cracks.

[dantheserene]

The CDC studies and the New England Journal of Medicine studies have been completely debunked. It is embarrassing that anyone would still quote them as if they were legitimate sources.

[Paul.]

Regardless, they should spend a little more time worrying about Ebola, and a little less time worrying about how I store my guns.

[The Late P Brooks]

Surprise

Thursday afternoon at Milwaukee's City Hall, police officers stood in support of Manney as the leader of Milwaukee's police union and a Milwaukee alderman spoke out against Manney's firing.

-----------

When asked about the fact two officers had previously checked on Hamilton that April day in Red Arrow Park and didn't pat him down, Alderman Donovan and many of the Milwaukee police officers who packed City Hall got defensive.

During Wednesday's press conference, Chief Flynn said he knew his decision would upset many officers.

"The challenge is gonna be the initial reaction, which I expect and understand, which is anger, frustration and a sense of betrayal. I get it. I totally get it," Chief Flynn said.

Crivello is calling Chief Flynn's decision "unprecedented," and said it's left officers confused and betrayed.

"The fact that his political concerns outweigh his public safety concerns are rapidly breeding no confidence. Rapidly breeding no confidence," Crivello said.

As we all know, "public safety" is a complete red herring. OFFICER SAFETY is the sum total of their concern.

[Paul.]

During Wednesday's press conference, Chief Flynn said he knew his decision would upset many officers.

Fuck 'em, let 'em quit. If they don't like it, fire them too. If that's what it takes to turn the culture around, start firing officers and replace them with officers that take a different view of policing.

[sarcasmic]

The public is everyone else. When they're talking to you, they are protecting the public from you. Since you're not the public. The public is everyone else. So when they kill someone, even by mistake, they are protecting the public. Since the public is everyone else.

[Paul.]

The Milwaukee police union protested Manney's firing. Cops fired in Milwaukee have gotten their jobs back before thanks to the police bill of rights.

A bill of rights that doesn't apply to me because I face criminal penalties for drawing my weapon and shooting an unarmed person 14 times, whereas their penalties are purely administrative.

Because higher standards.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

OT: New Cato study finds tort reform effects on health care spending minimal to bad

" New research from Myungho Paik, Bernard Black and David A. Hyman revisits the impact of tort reform and med mal risk on healthcare spending. They find that there is no evidence that adoption of damage caps reduces either Part A or Part B Medicare spending, and in fact, there is some evidence that specific caps lead to higher Part B spending."

http://www.cato.org/publicatio.....-revisited

[Paul.]

This has been discussed. And unfortunately there is some truth that tort reform is not a silver bullet in controlling medical costs. Unfortunately, the most effective way of controlling medical costs is such a longshot, that people just peck around the edges.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The flip side of liberty is full personal responsibility, so I oppose things like caps. Of course, I'm a bit biased given my field of choice I guess.

[sarcasmic]

If car insurance covered oil changes, you can bet they'd cost a lot more than the $24 I paid yesterday at Prompto. I wouldn't even know the price. Why should I? Insurance pays for it. It could be several hundred dollars, and for good reason. I mean, oil changes are essential for keeping a car running. They are very important. Something that important must cost a lot of money. And only experts can do it. They must be fully trained and licensed. Can't let just anyone change the oil and filter. How can you know they're going to get it right unless the government has given them its stamp of approval? You know, now that I think about it, I'm getting ripped off! Those guys at Prompto aren't certified by the government! They aren't licensed! They certainly aren't being paid a lot of money, and as we all know paying someone more money makes them better at their job! Oil changes should cost hundreds of dollars and be covered by insurance! I demand justice!

[Paul.]

Oh fuck yeah. Just had a snarky conversation with some friends on this exact subject. How funny conversations would be if car insurance were like healthcare insurance:

"My insurance is bullshit, I had to pay a $10 copay when they replaced my transmission, and they only cover my gas if I buy the generic".

"Wow, that sucks, my repairs are covered at 100% if I stay in network, and I can choose whatever gas I want. Oh, and they'll cover upgrades too, like Cherry Bombs and stereos. Can you believe those teabagging fucks tried to block that provision?"

[sarcasmic]

My wife has been having some health problems and likely needs an operation. It's going to cost a lot of dough. Problem is, her doctor dropped us when I was forced into the "silver" Obamacare insurance because it has a $4000 deductible and they want to get paid. So today I enrolled in the "gold" plan which will cost another $150 a month or so that I don't have. But that's still cheaper than the deductible.

Unfortunately, I can't shop around for an operation. It's not like a major car repair where I can get quotes. It's an operation. Insurance pays for it, so who cares what the actual price is?

The third party payer system and FUBARed the health care system.

[MegaloMonocle]

the disconnect between malpractice costs and Medicare spending is so vast, I can't think of a more meaningless way to evaluate tort reform.

[The Late P Brooks]

We didn't want to live in a reality where the gun?and violence?became our go-to option for dealing with major problems; a lens through which we see the world. Even if that problem was an armed intruder.

Yes, of course. Offer him a cup of tea. And a nice helping of whirled peas.

[Paul.]

And a nice helping of whirled peas.

Sometimes I sit and visualize those.