Tonight on The Independents: Ron Bailey and Kmele Foster on Climate Politics, John Tierney on the White House Fence-Jumper, Jason Bellini on ISIS, Matt Welch on Lois Lerner, and Aftershow

Tonight's live episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three hours later) is filled with hot people-on-climate action. Reacting to today's #Flood Wall Street climate-change protest against evil rich corporations are Party Panelists John Tierney (New York Times science writer) and Ellison Barber (Washington Free Beacon writer). The two will also discuss ISIS's latest threat to kill the "spiteful, dirty" French, and the crazy case of the White House fence-jumper (and overreaction thereof).

Continuing on the climate-change theme, we'll run some clips from and commentary about this Kmele Foster/Jim Epstein Reason TV video…

… and then get more reaction to that and this week's crazy global-warming politics in New York from beloved Reason Science Correspondent Ronald Bailey.

We're also not done with ISIS; The Interpreter's Michael Weiss will talk about Turkey's pivotal and contested role in the new war-on-those-guys, and Wall Street Journal multimedia explainer Jason Bellini will use his fancy tools to break down just who these ISIS guys are and how they function. Finally, I'll have some words about Lois Lerner's vomit-inducing interview with Politico.

Online-only aftershow begins at foxbusiness.com/independents just after 10. Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

...filled with hot people-on-climate action.

Jesus.

[Stickler Meeseeks]

Meanwhile, Chinese students protest for democracy. Can we exchange ours for theirs?
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0.....tml#slide0

[Bardas Phocas]

No. You go to Revolution with the students you have.

[Paul.]

In the reason "what we saw"video, it seemed to consist of people about Neil young's age... And appearance.

[Sevo]

"And appearance."

And intelligence.

[Stickler Meeseeks]

Not all of them.

http://thewestsidestory.net/20.....cy-makers/

[Jensen]

So anyone else getting their Facebook feed spammed by the Emma Watson UN speech? I think my favourite part of that speech is when she quotes Edmund Burke (possibly incorrectly I might add). Because I'm pretty sure Burke argued against women having the right to vote in most of his work.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

If she's a leftie she shouldn't be quoting Burke.

[Jensen]

The quote she uses is 'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men and women (she adds that part in) to do nothing.' Which is actually nowhere in his writings and may be misattributed. If she actually knew what she was talking about she could have used a similar quote by John Stuart Mills, but it's pretty clear she used that quote to prop up her pseudo-intellectualism.

[Tommy_Grand]

noting her inaccuracy marks you as sexist + logocentric

[Rufus J. Firefly]

They have to re-write and re-work history to fit their bull shit narratives.

It's the only way for it to make sense.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

It's an apocryphal quote that appears nowhere in any of his known writings.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

It is all over my FB. Don't feel like wasting 15 minutes watching it. I just assume its full of left-wing silliness, but I could be wrong.

[Jensen]

Short version: I'm Emma Watson, why don't more men identify as feminists? I'm now going to repeat the gender gap myth and talk about the gender demographics of an audience during a Hilary Clinton speech without a hint of self awareness. Men should be allowed to be sensitive. *Quote of a political theorist who didn't want me to vote.* The End.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Well thank you Jensen

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Would you find a black man quoting Jefferson on liberty to be as absurd?

[Derpetologist]

If this hypothetical black man was unaware that Jefferson owned slaves, yes, it would be absurd.

[Jensen]

If said black man was completely unaware of Jefferson's actions and financial status as a slave owner, absolutely. Also, if Jefferson upheld slavery as an eternal, undying, wonderful institution. In Reflections on the Revolution in France Burke directly criticizes the concept of female equality and suffrage as an impossibility in a civilized society.

Also I'm not American, your pagan founder gods have no hold on me.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I'm no fan of Jefferson, but I don't think it would be absurd for a black man to quote him on liberty where Jefferson spoke eloquently about that, likewise Watson with Burke. It's the words and the ideas that are being borrowed not the exact and imperfect ways the speaker thought they should and could be realized.

[Jensen]

Except Burke did not say that, it is not found anywhere in his work. A ten minute Google search could have told her that. It's almost like she name-dropped Burke and this quote as a cheap form of pseudo-intellectualism without actually understanding any of it.

Like I said above, John Stuart Mills has a similar quote and was very pro-gender equality (once again, something that could have been solved with a Google search). But why should she be held to any kind of standard? She's just giving a speech at the UN.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Fair enough.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"Also I'm not American, your pagan founder gods have no hold on me."

According to the CBC, Tommy Douglas is our god.

[Jensen]

I wrote a critique of his thesis paper in university. My god was he into eugenics (most of the Prairie progressives were, I argued it had to do with their experiences with animal husbandry).

[Paul.]

Facebook what?

[EdWuncler]

It's all over my friend's FB pages. I'm all for equality under the law but her idea if equality is forcing companies to purchase birth control for their workers.

[lap83]

I deleted my facebook account a few months ago and it's the best thing I've done all year.

[F. Stupidity, Jr.]

I had it for a few months in 2008. Didn't care for it, don't miss it.

[lap83]

Good choice. It only got worse.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hello.

My nipples burn.

[Brett L]

Are you pregnant? That was my wife's first symptom.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I don't believe that I am.

[Winston]

Reason should change it's name to Der Morgen.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Very long, but very interesting article in The New Yorker about the Kurdish situation for anyone looking to get an overview of the current state of a affairs there.

[Jensen]

Any explanation of the Kurdish situation should probably start with 'Everyone at the Paris 1919 Peace Conference were cunts.'

[Paul.]

What's the over - under on getting 100,000 teabagging libertarians in the street demanding smaller government and the abolishment of socialism?

[Dances-with-Trolls]

We can't Occupy Wall Street as we are too busy Occupying Places of Employment.

[Paul.]

I'm unemployed. So we got one. Can we get another? Remember, every flood started with a single drip!

[Sevo]

All the drips were marching in NY yesterday.

[PapayaSF]

Low. They're either working, have something better to do, too old to travel, or refuse to participate due to ideological disagreements.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

This place once echoed with the idle chit chat of friends and lovers. But now...silence.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

There has been a definite drop in the late night traffic, that is for sure. By 8pm PST it's a freaking ghost town around here.

[Brett L]

Monday Night Football

[Dances-with-Trolls]

No, it's pretty much every night.

[trshmnster the terrible]

I used to be able to carry on conversations a few hours after an article posted. More and more it feels like I'm talking to myself in those threads.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Black.

[Paul.]

Is the new red?

[Brett L]

So wrong.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Welch is one goofy-looking son of a bitch.

[Fist of Etiquette]

That bowtie is not centered.

[Winston]

How long will it take for Welch to regenerate into Malcolm Tucker?

[Jensen]

Kennedy would never interrupt him again.

[Rev-Match]

ISIS urging to kill non-believers

I thought that was just the AGW crowd.

[Brett L]

Wow, that chick is trying to talk so fast Kennedy can't cut you off. I think she must have been a debater or an auctioneer in college.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Or was tipped off about The Interrupter and prepared for it.

[Rev-Match]

I bet Welch is joshrendell.

[Winston]

He should change his name to Wilhelm Kulz.

[PapayaSF]

Oh, come on. If Welch wanted to troll, he wouldn't pretend to have an IQ of 85.

[Rev-Match]

...IQ of 85.

You are being far too generous, goober.

[Brett L]

Yes! "Let's you and him fight!" could work for a long while yet.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I think Kennedy offered Free Beacon girl some Tic Tacs but accidentally gave her the speed in her purse.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Kennedy reminds me of that girl who would constantly shout out the answers in class.

[Rev-Match]

That girl also wanted to be class president. Everybody hated that girl.

[Brett L]

Poor Tierny, he tried to turn up the speed, but he's too male.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Even reason's cosmotarians see that climate change movements are thinly-veiled socialism.

[Brett L]

When you're directly referencing Mikhail Gorbachev, I don't think they're even veiled.

[Winston]

Thinly veiled? They're already calling for the arrest of enemies of the people for social crimes.

[PapayaSF]

But Matt, all those people did socialism wrong! Americans would do it better, don't you know.

[Brett L]

I really don't want to see American ingenuity applied to any Final Solutions. They might just succeed.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"Americans would do it better, don't you know."

American Exceptionalism!

[Rev-Match]

I have never heard rationality from an AGW proponent.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Never? I've heard lots of ones of the non-alarmist variety.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

http://www.theatlantic.com/bus.....ge/257827/

[Rev-Match]

Even if these skeptics are correct that global warming will not be catastrophic and that the net effects in the near-to-medium term might be positive, there are still reasons to act.

Disqualified.

Also, this:

Third, I believe the United States should adopt a revenue-neutral carbon tax

I refuse to be taxed on a natural substance that is necessary for all life on the planet.

Fourth and finally, it is important to recognize that some degree of warming is already hard-wired into the system. This means that some degree of adaptation will be necessary.

Until the next cooling trend, of course.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

A rational conversation about apocalyptic predictions? Sure, why not.

[Tommy_Grand]

[insert African proverb re: talking very fast, saying very little]

[Derpetologist]

An empty pot makes a loud sound.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Micheal Weiss from < i The Interpreter.

[Brett L]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Can't arm the Kurds. That's bad for Turkey.

[BigT]

Don't arm the Kurds, but provide air support to their defense of their territory in Iraq.

[PapayaSF]

Now I see the tie.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Sure, why wouldn't Turkey do that? Weakens the Kurds and costs them nothing.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Turkey is okay with ISIS gobbling up large swaths of Syria. THAT'S WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE SAID.

[Brett L]

Sure, it sends the people they can't safely oppress off to die somewhere else.

[PapayaSF]

Isn't it Turkey that does gobbling?

[Derpetologist]

In other news, I hereby present my first installment of People Who Are Not Helping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYkvvzYEujI

[Sevo]

"I hereby present my first installment of People Who Are Not Helping"

Man, with a qualification like that, you're not gonna run out of candidates.

[PapayaSF]

When progressives hear the word "libertarian," that's the image that comes to their minds. *SIGH*

[Fist of Etiquette]

KMELE FOSTER IS A GIANT AMONG MEN.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Behind the desk Foster looks like a midget, but out on the street he looks huge and manly. Lesson: more location shoots.

[Rev-Match]

"What do you want to happen?"

A whole new society

Boots will be on necks.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ron Bailey slash Johnny Cash.

[PapayaSF]

So that's Ron Bailey? I wanted to address him as "Father" and tell him his clerical collar was out of place.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

My God you people really hate the earth.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Americans? Yes. Yes we do.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Tripled?! WTF?!

[PapayaSF]

Kennedy: wooden shoes are Holland, not Denmark.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

She's so busy trying to get a word in she doesn't care; it's all the same to her.

[Jensen]

Danish, Dutch, it's all the same weird-talking Europeans to Kennedy.

If you think the British are annoyed about the death of their empire, just imagine how pissed the Dutch are. They ran the 17th century version of the modern financial superstate and now they're known as the people who make wooden shoes.

[Sevo]

And chocolate.

[BigT]

Bailey is unimpressive. Not surprised. Solar and wind can never be the primary power source because they are intermittent so a steady backup is required. Batteries won't cut it.

[PapayaSF]

Current batteries won't, but let's hope for a breakthrough. In fact, that would be a good X-Prize.

[BigT]

Hahaha. Size, weight, density. Not in your lifetime.

[PapayaSF]

It's a hard problem, I agree, but do not discount the potential of nanotech.

[BigT]

I work in nanotechnology, which is really just a fancy name for chemistry at the molecular level, that has been active for decades. Don't hold your breath.

[Greg F]

Current batteries won't, but let's hope for a breakthrough.

The U.S. uses 4 trillion kWh a year. The shear magnitude of storage that would be needed is mind boggling.

The theoretical limits on electro chemical storage makes batteries an unlikely solution.
http://thebulletin.org/limits-.....technology

[The Bearded Hobbit]

I recall one setup where the intermittent power sources were used to pump water uphill to a reservoir. The reservoir provided pressure to turbines to provide a constant source of power. The water was released to a lower pond, ready to be pumped back uphill.

There are efficiencies losses up the wazoo but this is a feasible scheme to store large amounts of potential energy.

... Hobbit

[Greg F]

Again, the shear magnitude of electric power we use makes this more daunting than it appears at first.

Consider the U.S. gets between 6% and 9% of its power from hydro. Now consider the magnitude of the reservoirs we would need to build to double what we could generate with hydro.

[Fist of Etiquette]

BREAKING NEWS??? Can breaking news supplant the topical storm???

[GILMORE]

Did i miss the 'making fun of climate protesters' part?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Not a whole lot of making fun took place.

[PapayaSF]

Are those clips of ISIS fighters? I'm no expert, but they don't seem to know how to fire their weapons.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

We've had warships stationed in the Med since freaking WW2.

[Brett L]

"Syria? Great air defenses"
--"How do you know?"
"Uh, we looked at the receipt."

/Bill Hicks

[Rufus J. Firefly]

When does Obama come out with his 'L'etat c'est moi' speech?

[GILMORE]

Hail Hydra

[BigT]

Hey G, no attire review?

[Fist of Etiquette]

So, it takes America lobbing bombs to get < i The Independents to stay on a single topic for more than two minutes, forty-three seconds at a time.

[PapayaSF]

I would like to see them try covering just two topics in an hour. Really go in-depth.

[BigT]

That would be an improvement. Could still have topical storm to keep Kennedy happy.

[Sevo]

BTW, otters are cute and we can't live without them (uh), but it seems the sharks didn't get the memo:

"Great white sharks partly to blame for otter recovery stall"
[...]
"Jim Curland, advocacy program director for the nonprofit Friends of the Sea Otter, said 340 dead sea otters were found last year, many of them victims of great white sharks."
http://www.sfgate.com/news/art.....772806.php

I dunno, maybe some animals are kinda bound for extinction...

[Rufus J. Firefly]

If you won't make fun of the anti-capitalist marchers you could at least make fun of Syrians.

[PapayaSF]

Did that Weiss guy say we needed to "win over" anti-ISIS Sunnis? Poor naive fellow....

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Are they (ISIS) involved in the olive oil business too?

[BigT]

Kennedy - just shut up rather than exposing your ignorance. Free markets don't take over by force.

[Fist of Etiquette]

FOR FUCK SAKE, WHY NOT LET WEISS ANSWER THE QUESTION?

[GILMORE]

Weiss' problem with Foreign Policy is the most common one with people in that sphere, in that they are *terrible at summarizing*. FP-geeks love the details, and have trouble sacrificing 'complexity' in favor of 'short and simple' narratives.

[Rev-Match]

Tomahawk missiles are RACIST.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

More of this guy in the future TI. He's really good.

[Fist of Etiquette]

What would make sense?

And Weiss looks ready to give us the answer to Syria and ISIS, and Kennedy throws it to the Olson twin.

[Rev-Match]

I laughed.

[Fist of Etiquette]

No commercials? This is like overtime hockey. WHO'S PAYING FOR THIS? Where's John Criswell?

[GILMORE]

?

Yeah, I just realized. I was just catching the 'end' of the show, and its been going about 20 mins straight now

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 22 September 2014

Hellzapoppin-Edition

- Kennedy: Its all over now, Baby Blue? Not only is this a color we've never seen before, but Kennedy confounds us by splitting the difference between 'sleeves' and 'sleeveless'. As with all things Female, I really don't want to "judge" so much as perpetually struggle to "appreciate'; in this case, I don't need to try very hard at all. +1 Coochie choochie coo

- Matt: We have grown used to getting heavy-duty PowerMatt on Mondays (preferably, white shirt w/ Republican-Red tie). This... seems to be either a grey(?) or blue shirt? ..which is nice with the navy-stripe, but not as interestingly 'contrasting' as the Power combo, particularly when no one else at the table has any strong colors going on. Nice, but better as a safety-getup for HumpDay.

- Kmele: I think I am guilty of 'on-again/off-again' appreciation/rejection of Kmele's bow-tie eccentricities. I know I like this navy blue tie better than the 'chuck-e-cheese'-host-red one (perhaps that's better called, "the Orville Redenbacher"?), but less tonight than the last time i saw it, when i recall describing him as resembling a Belgian sommelier, or something like that.

Bedankt

[BigT]

Ya think K's dress is showing off a bulging belly? Or is it static cling?

[GILMORE]

it is inappropriate to comment on the hosts babyfat. or pooches.

[GILMORE]

Wiess has been going on for 15 mins now...

... and it seems like if we were to give a quiz to the Indys at the end of the show, they would still all fail.

[Sevo]

So is this live?
There's a new thread that Obo has started bombing the ISI(X) folks. But, no, it's not a war.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Good quote from Frum, of all people:

David Frum ?@davidfrum 6m
Hoping for best success possible in a war w/out aims, alongside allies not to be identified, for the benefit of regimes we don't mention

[GILMORE]

A russian don't take a dump without a plan, son.

[Jensen]

They should really just call this the Great Middle Eastern Not-War. See if we can beat such silly war names as the Toyota War and the War of Jenkins' Ear.

[Raven Nation]

War of Jenkins' Ear.

Greatest War Name. Ever.

Also, coolest reason to start a war.

[Fist of Etiquette]

THIS IS IN DANGER OF BLEEDING INTO THE SEXY AFTERSHOW.

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[GILMORE]

Good gald ahmighty, its DOBBS!!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Fox Biz website is trying to show me a repeat. Never go full repeat.

[GILMORE]

I liked that thing she had on that night. Very TRON

[GILMORE]

Does this mean no after show?

[GILMORE]

also, just to comment on that re-run...

...I enjoy when Kennedy stops "RDS Delivery Service" people (in the green sweatshirts).

They're almost 100% ex-cons. or 'section 8' (mentally 'challenged'). The nicest guys, most of the time.

[Fist of Etiquette]

This is the most blatant case of false advertising since my suit against the movie The Neverending Story.

[GILMORE]

For those who are gun-fans:

this is cool

[The Bearded Hobbit]

Interesting. I grew up with a pump .22 and, while they can be lightning-fast, they tend to force you to re-aquire the target making them more accurate.

I looked up that .300 cartridge and wasn't impressed. I liked the fact that it fit existing bolts and mags but they were trying to duplicate the 7.62x39 and it looks like they failed by a factor of two.

... Hobbit

[GILMORE]

Meh. .300 blk is a cool cartridge for suppressed use. Its an AAC invention, and it also has its cool toys to go with it

(single shot rifle designed for use with can)

[GILMORE]

oh,

i think the other point is that a 'pump action AR' manages to get through the existing 'assault rifle-ban' legislation, and thus makes an ideal 'all state, all-law' weapon in a pinch.

not sure all the details, but they're out there.