Tonight on The Independents: After the Beheading, Ferguson Stupidities, United States of Welfare, Charlamagne Tha God, TV's Andy Levy, Julie Borowski, and a Celebration of Mo'ne

Tonight's episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three hours later) picks up where last night's left off: With dueling storylines across multiple segments on the horrific beheading of journalist James Foley by a British-accented agent of ISIL, plus the continuing fallout and teachable moments from the situation in Ferguson, Missouri.

Starting with the grisly business and how President Barack Obama is and should be responding to it is former Lt. Col. Ralph Peters, who will likely have a more bombing-centric approach than the co-hosts (though one never knows). Later, a Red Meat Wednesday Party Panel of  TV's Andy Levy and beloved Internet libertarian Julie Borowski will weigh in on the do's and don'ts (legally and personally) of publishing/broadcasting/re-tweeting images and videos from the Foley tape.

Levy & Borowski will also get into the various stupidities surrounding the Ferguson fiasco, whether it's Capt. Ron Johnson's alleged gang signage, Gov. Jay Nixon's call for a "vigorous prosecution" (as opposed to a vigorous investigation to see whether a prosecution is warranted), a looter's reported comment that "I'm proud of us. We deserve this." Also coming on to talk about the various aspects of Ferguson is hip-hop DJ Charlamagne tha God, who I predict will not exactly agree with Kmele Foster about the situation, though again, life is full of surprises. The co-hosts will talk about new numbers showing that 109 million Americans are on welfare, as a sort of preview of our Friday show "The United States of Welfare." And proving that not everything in life is inherently terrible, we shall celebrate the awesomeness that is 13-year-old pitching sensation Mo'ne Davis.

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Comments

[GILMORE]

Borowski good. We like.

We question her use of, "Ummmm" to start sentences (tweeted or otherwise), however.

"Don't" says I.

[Almanian!]

Ummmmmmmm - I'm gonna go with "no" #um

[Fist of Etiquette]

Tonight's episode of The Independents...picks up where last night's left off...

Talking about which musical groups panelists would banish?

[GILMORE]

There is much wrong in the world, and these are the days that try men's souls...

...and while some believe diplomacy has failed, and that relations have irreparably soured between the US and Russia....

....there remains hope.

Because into the breach steps.... STEVEN SEGAL

He shares his insights into how True World Leadership requires Men with Judo Skills

...and not just *any Judo Skills* but Judo Skills informed by a deep appreciation of Eastern Philosophy regarding Winning and Ass-kicking.

He insinuates that our current American Regime may lack the requisite Judo (or even Aikido) talents necessary to Asswhoop Contemporary World Issues.

Also, something about Hitler and CNN.

I believe serious questions regarding his Magically-Advancing Hairline remain unanswered.

[seguin]

I believe serious questions regarding his Magically-Advancing Hairline remain unanswered.

Ancient Chinese Zen technique.

[GILMORE]

Well, i guess that's true since I've never seen a bald Buddhist

[Ska]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=338D3HTto6M

Try that clip.

[GILMORE]

That person, whomever it is, filmed his little video there on the block i happen to live on.

[Ska]

Crazy little weird we live in...

[Ska]

*world, FFS.

[GILMORE]

FWIW, its a very popular and pretentious block

its "bedford avenue/N7th st williamsburg", aka - Hipster Mecca. If there were a place to put the Hipster Kaaba, it would probably be on the corner a block from where my last place was. (n4th)

i think its moving east, finally, because the area has gotten way too expensive to be that hip anymore.

[Ska]

East to the german place, the park, and that turkey bar?

[Ska]

Or do you mean greenpoint?

[GILMORE]

That is technically north (up beford towards mcCarren park & greenpoint)

and the Turkey's Nest which was the last of the working class bars on bedford.

when i say 'east' i mean 'true east', towards Bushwick. I think the Graham ave stop is now more '20-something hipster' overrun than bedford, which has for the last 5 years been overrun by yuppies w/ strollers set.

so you know the area i see.

[Lady Bertrum]

Steven Segal does Aikido, not Judo.

[GILMORE]

yes, but you need to watch the interview to learn his insights on how Putin's Judo mastery is the key to Leadership

[Ken Shultz]

They keep talking about this guy being "British accented". What is that supposed to imply?

Practically everyone that learns to speak English as a second language--outside of the U.S. and Canada--speaks English with a British accent.

Actually, according to my English friends, there is no such thing as an "English" accent since, you know, it's the English who are speaking English. How could the Queen of England speak English with an English accent?

But, you know, everybody that comes to the U.S. from India speaks English with what we would consider a British accent. Everybody I've met from Egypt and elsewhere speaking English with that kind of accent to. People from the Caribbean, Africa, even Hong Kong! They tend to speak English with an English accent.

What is it about this accent that's supposed to be so telling? What, is he speaking cockney slang during the beheading or something? Does he sound like Michael Caine, or Ringo, or Sean Connery? What are people trying to infer from his accent?

[Ken Shultz]

Is his accent suppose to scare me?

Am I supposed to be afraid that he or his friends may be here in America--trying to install the worldwide caliphate? That the beheadings could start here in the U.S. at any time?

Because I'm not afraid of that--certainly not to the point that it makes me so stupid that I would support a stupid policy blunder--just because someone has a British accent and they behead people.

[GILMORE]

Clearly you've never seen Terrorist Training Videos

[Redmanfms]

What are people trying to infer from his accent?

That if he is indeed "English" that means he is a Western jihadi and when he returns much bad could happen. The connection isn't merely being "inferred" it's being outright stated and you simply haven't been paying attention.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that supposition (and since I abjectly refuse to watch the video I have no idea what his voice sounds like), but the connection between his accent and possible issues with radicalized European Muslims has been pretty plainly made right from the get-go.

And honestly, if you can't tell the difference in the accents of all of the half dozen or so different peoples you listed you need your hearing checked.

[Ken Shultz]

What policy position am I supposed to support with the knowledge that however many jihadis come from the West?

There isn't any policy position of mine that changes one way or the other based on where terrorists originate from.

None.

Why would it?

Somebody explain to me--what policy position am I supposed to support now that I wouldn't have supported before if there weren't jihadis from the West?

Am I supposed to support the NSA on warrantless wiretapping now?

Am I supposed to support another invasion of Iraq?

Am I supposed to support the fucking TSA junk grabbing on flights from Cincinnati to Cleveland?

If the jihadis come from Chelsea but root for Man United, why should a libertarian give a shit?

[GILMORE]

You ask a lot of questions for a man that seems to already have the answer.

Who are you debating, the TV?

No one here seems particularly agitated that London has an export-market in Jihadis

Now, if he had a real thick Alabama drawl, now *that* would be a thing.

[Ken Shultz]

Everywhere I hear this story on the media, they keep emphasizing that he has a British accent.

...like that's supposed to make me go hide under the coffee table or something.

I'm calling them all out for their fear-mongering.

[GILMORE]

YOU SHOW THAT TV!!
(gets popcorn)

Seriously though, it would be cool if ISIS were rednecks though, right?

I bet it would make Bo very interventionist.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Anwar al-Awlaki was born in Las Cruces, New Mexico. Does that count?

[GILMORE]

New Mexico is technically not either America or Mexico.

Sort of like 'interzone'. It makes sense that both al-Awlaki and Walter White are from there.

[The Bearded Hobbit]

Well, Cruces is in the Constitution-Free Zone. Checkpoint Charlie is about 25 miles north of there.

... Hobbit

[Dweebston]

I BEG TO DIFFER, SIR

You're stuck with us. For life. We're worse than child support. SUCK IT.

[Libertymike]

HM, he was murdered, as was his son, by the "brave men and women in uniform", of course, via remote control.

Men in uniform tend to be the biggest pussies.

[Libertymike]

No,"*that* would be a THANG."

ftfy.

[Redmanfms]

You really are an obtuse ass Ken.

Your like a child who wanders into a movie....

....and then starts defending slavery.

[Heroic Mulatto]

They keep talking about this guy being "British accented". What is that supposed to imply?

It is supposed to imply that he hails from the UK. The British government has conceded that the jihadist is likely one of four British nationals known to be part of ISIS.

What, is he speaking cockney slang during the beheading or something?

According to the article, "[l]inguistic experts suggested the killer was from South London, possibly with some links to Afghanistan".

[Ken Shultz]

See my comment above.

Why should I care where he comes from?

What position am I supposed to change based on where the terrorists come from?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Why should I care where he comes from?

I dunno. That question you'll have to answer for yourself.

I was just pointing to the answers that I knew of to your, I assume, sincere questions.

[ant1sthenes]

"Why should I care where he comes from?"

Because it's potentially where he'll go to?

[Ken Shultz]

We already knew there were jihadis from the West. We've known that since day one.

So, again, am I supposed to be afraid now?

Am I supposed to support NSA wiretapping?

I already knew they were a bunch of psychopathic, murderous, fanatical weirdos and that some hailed from the West. And I opposed the Patriot Act, NSA surveillance, 4th Amendment violations, torture policies, the Iraq War, etc., etc., anyway.

Why does every single news report I hear on this murderous freak--including the thread post above here at Hit & Run--feel it's necessary to emphasize that the weirdo has a British accent.

Anybody that thinks something different today than they did yesterday--because this weirdo has a British accent--is either a coward or a moron.

Fear really is the mind-killer.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

So, question:

The UK can arrest this asshole when he gets back, yes? I mean, I can't jump the border and murder some wetbacks, come back to the states, and expect the USG to have my back. Hell, I can pretty damn well expect to have my ass tossed in prison (and for good reason) -- so how 'bout this guy?

While we're at it, I'm pretty sure the main implication is supposed to be about immigration from certain countries with a heavily radical Muslim population. I get that this is something we don't worry about here in Mt Theoryland, but in the real world such things do have an impact on a variety of issues great and small.

[Ken Shultz]

I don't know British law, but, at the very least, this guy is guilty of a war crime.

He videotaped himself murdering a civilian in cold blood.

If he thinks they have any inkling who he is, he'd be an idiot to go back to anywhere in Europe.

He's probably do or die for his make-believe caliphate, and the backup plan is probably Pakistan.

[JeremyR]

That Islamic terrorism is a problem that you can't hide from?

That radicals are coming from Europe and the US, not just from the Middle East? And when they come back to their homes, they will bring that terrorism and that call for shariah law with them?

[Ken Shultz]

Is any of this information new?

Haven't we all known this since September of 2001?

And anybody that thinks somebody's going to bring Sharia law to the United States should go anti-psychotic medication.

Fer cripe's sake, Christians can't even say a prayer in public schools.

[userve32]

Roll that beautiful bean footage.

http://www.Anon-Surf.tk

[Fist of Etiquette]

^This^

[db]

Hmh. Human bean footage.

/Rorschach voice

[Heroic Mulatto]

I told you all that the Bush Beans family dog was a serious asshole.

[GILMORE]

"TV's Andy Levy"

Well, that's a relief. Last I'd heard TV was disowning him. Glad to hear they've resolved their differences.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

"the do's and don'ts (legally and personally) of publishing/broadcasting/re-tweeting images and videos from the Foley tape."

Don't Do What Donnie Don't Does.

[ant1sthenes]

I feel like all the news is starting to just smear together in my mind.

"President Obama interrupts vacation to respond to allegations that an IRS hard drive crash caused the loss of cell-phone video shot by Ukrainian ebola patient capturing the moment where a Missouri cop, distraught over the death of Robin Williams, beheads an undocumented teenage Huffpo reporter.

A poll of Millenials show that 47% hope it leads to universal healthcare, 34% believe the decapitation is evidence of a libertarian moment, and 8% support President Obama."

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Lol

[GILMORE]

Happy Birthday

Ron Paul - 79

- and -

Robert Plant - 66

[GILMORE]

also,

Connie Chung - 68

and

KRS-One - 49

[Beezard]

Phil Lynott and Dimebag Darrel

[Fist of Etiquette]

Why is there no Suderman? Why is there no Moynihan? I DEMAND MOYNIHAN.

[GILMORE]

He gets that a lot

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Tonight's line up seems jumbled and confused. Where's Kmele?

[Fist of Etiquette]

At a Dave Matthews concert.

[GILMORE]

Women with southern accents are the hottest

My theory is that the southern accent has a way of neutralizing the annoying part of the way chicks 'uptalk' and instead converts it to something more appealing and unpretentious.

this remains a theory. sadly when i lived in tennessee, i only dated a chick from Kentucky and then a yankee. the Kentucky chick sounded like nothing really.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

My job involves me calling nurses from home healthcare clinics in Kentucky and Tennessee.

I find the accents very pleasant to listen too.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Hump day is not bump day for this thread

[Fist of Etiquette]

Goddammit.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I could swear she was wearing orange in the cold open.

[Fist of Etiquette]

No tie. He's still on vacation.

[Derpetologist]

Did Ralph inhale some helium before going on the air?

[GILMORE]

I hope my parents are just as 'matter of fact' and unconcerned and blase when i have my head cut off by Terrorists on television.

[GILMORE]

DO SOMETHING says guy who say DO SOMETHING for a living

[Fist of Etiquette]

Patton this guy ain't.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

Ralph is a former MI officer who tried to be Tom Clancy/Harold Coyle. He wrote some somewhat successful books, but most military folks consider him an ass.

[GILMORE]

He now is a walking Warboner for rent

[Derpetologist]

Open-ended question: is there a non-violent way to defeat or thwart Islamic terrorism, either a single group or in general?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Just pass a law. I hear they fix everything.

[JeremyR]

Just open the borders! Let them all come to American and suddenly they will be peaceful and be Americans.

And not you know, go on killing sprees like this guy

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014.....ton-state/

I'm sure that will turn out to all be the police's fault somehow.

[Calidissident]

Judging by that guy's name, I'm fairly certain he is an American convert to Islam, and not an immigrant. How many non-convert Muslims are there with the last name "Brown?"

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Kill, kill, KILL.

[Derpetologist]

What makes the grass grow?

BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOD!

But not too much. Or too fast.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Maybe he is Patton.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Obama is a shitty, shitty leader in times of war.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

And in times of peace, too.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I think he is a friend of the Nazzies.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Reducto ad...Aztecum?

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

Way to godwin the Aztecs.

The Aztecs are worse than Hitler!

[Derpetologist]

I wish FdA was here. I get the feeling he would like this picture:

http://i.imgur.com/5MdbrWs.jpg

[Fist of Etiquette]

Well, hellooooooooooo, Julie.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Has she even said anything?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Why don't you just yell at the TV for her to get you a sandwich, you sexist bastard.

[Rev-Match]

She's being responsibly quiet.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

Looting Tourism???

I was planning my Labor Day around shopping in Feguson, TI has ruined it for me.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Greek is the worst gang of all.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

Is Detroit a form of Godwinning inner cities?

[GILMORE]

yes.

All shitholes must be compared to 'detroit', the ur-shithole

[GILMORE]

break it down, kennedy

[Derpetologist]

Wait, someone suggested using fire hoses on protesting black people?

That's like telling an anorexic to lighten up.

[GILMORE]

Julie looks really uncomfortable with all this race-talk

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Borowski looks so awkward right now, like she's trying to find an opportunity to say something.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Kmele is a refreshing black commentator.

Seriously.

[Fist of Etiquette]

All three of those black friends told Levy those stories.

[Rev-Match]

This conversation has gone from bad to worse.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

The Ferguson PD is not big enough to pull over blacks for being black, but the fact that the PD is mostly white in a mostly black community, causes huge problems with perception.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Apparently the demographics of the suburb changed drastically in the last couple decades, but the police force isn't reflecting that yet.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

Yeah, this is true of all of N STL County. 'White Flight' happened into there in the 70's and out of there in the 90's.

A lot of that area is like driving through a war zone with abandoned, boarded up buildings and closed business everywhere.

A real problem with Ferguson is they pay police too much to want to live there.

[Calidissident]

"The Ferguson PD is not big enough to pull over blacks for being black"

How many cops does it take to do this?

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 20 August 2014

Every Man a King-Edition

- Kennedy: We now observe the 'enlivening' effect of orange hues on Kennedy's pallor. Sadly, while we're down with it - it feels something less than 100% 'creamsicle' effect. We confess to being a complete sucker for the upland-hunting/Cabela's-orange dress she has, and anything less than that leaves us somewhat unfulfilled. Its still our favorite shade overall for Kennedy.

- Matt: [Sigh] Is that the black suit? Christ, you really have to go out of your way to take simple ingredients like this and 'do it wrong'. This could have worked in almost any combination *but* this. Red tie likes white shirt. Blue shirt likes blue suit. Might possibly be better with blue tie, but still. Reserve the black suit for funerals and cocktail parties, but keep it off the air.

- Kmele: Tight - charcoal blazer and maroon tie. We especially like the super-short collars which he used to rock nearly exclusively, and which we still don't know where he buys. Kmele's expertise with fairly 'normal' stuff is part of what we like so much about his steez. He doesn't need anything special to put together a very sharp look. Why this seems to have had zero impression on Matt remains a mystery.

- Julie: hawt

Nais tuke

[Rev-Match]

- Julie: hawt

Seconded.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Well, well, well. Dissing the blue state economies. Someone's going to get invited to fewer cocktail parties.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Matt Welch: Distance yourselves as I mess with Texas.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

About the only thing CA has going for it is weather, anymore.

[cavalier973]

VDH doing his best to turn me against Israel.

[GILMORE]

have you read the War Nerd vs VDH fight?

I never liked the guy, liked him even less after reading about that.

[Rock Action]

From the magazine that brags that it broke the Koch brothers' takeover of America? On Dylan Ratigan? Sounds like a mag everyone should read.

I take their military points, but their format is as anarchic and unreadable as a typical fanzine. I'm not exactly sure what point they were trying to make about VDH, and calling the Gulf War I a success is sort of laughable.

And nothing could make me support Hamas. Not even VDH's defense of Israeli tactics. I actually found the article quite edifying. Yum!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Who doesn't like lantern-jawed wolves?

[Fist of Etiquette]

They're going to show us a clip from a movie we've all seen?

[GILMORE]

I think it would be cool if the US annually threw insults at our international adversaries.

"Smack talk day", or something.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

But not in a 90s insult comic kind of way -- the "Iranian mullahs be dancin' like this" jokes would get pretty stale.

[GILMORE]

I was thinking something on the order of the State of the Union, where all the members of congress listen to the president run down the list, like,

"Russia: you are a nation of alcoholic, mushmouth-talking slavic guidos, whose only organizational capabilities seem to be as 'international mobsters' and 'oligarchs who plunder what is left of the industries built by the soviets'. Everyone laughs at your billionaires because they know they're basically uneducated overpaid crooks. Plus your food is disgusting. Whens the last time anyone said, 'hey, let's go eat 'Russian' tonight. Your only genuine asset are teenage girls who take it up the ass on the internet. So, at least you have that."

"North Korea: So incompetent, we should encourage you to have more nuclear tests because inevitably you will drown Yourselves in a sea of fire. You are lead by a short fat child who thinks he's the leader of a master race; yet we send one of our most Retarded Americans - Dennis Rodman - and you think he's Superman. You want to be feared, yet you cant afford to keep the lights on after dark. You have provided more comedy video for the internet than any other Totalitarian dictatorship. Everyones greatest fear is of your inevitable collapse when you will expect the rest of the planet to take care of your useless asses. Good luck becoming Little New China, bitches"

That sort of thing.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Ah, very good. I feel that we should extend this idea to deaths of our antagonists, as well.

"Today we take note of the death of Hugo Chavez. A self-made millionaire in a currency as bankrupt as the oil fields he nationalized, the great egalitarian leaves behind a grieving mass of penniless supporters who will honor his memory by burning other peoples' shit and beating the hell out of political opponents. Unique in his untiring efforts to make a wealthy, oil-producing country into a geriatric, poor Communist island's bitch, we will all endeavor to remember him in the same way his Vice President did: through the commission of hundreds of memorials that will make a Nogales Quincea?era's d?cor look classy, and, of course, by blaming the Jews. Burn in hell, fatass.

Sincerely,

President Rand Paul"

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Given what valets make I think the joy of riding around in a Corvette probably outweighs the cost of losing your job.

[GILMORE]

I did it. However, i did it at a very posh country club and the 'joy ride' was about a 1/4 mile. You couldn't fool around with people you saw every day. There were a fly whips though. Like a 1980s Aston Martin V8 Vantage, 1960s camaro, a testarossa, etc...

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Best scene in Ferris Bueller?

The movie!

[Fist of Etiquette]

California, Florida... What's the difference.

[Rev-Match]

Nobody likes a Tesla. Tesla doesn't even like a Tesla.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I liked this demasking better when Marvel did it.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

Fuck a Tesla over a Vette!

Outrageous!

[Fist of Etiquette]

"YOU DON'T HAVE KIDS YOU DON'T KNOW."

[GILMORE]

i think the Independents regular updates on the Times Sq costumed freaks is one of the few stories they can honestly claim to have 'broken'

[Fist of Etiquette]

You tell him, Welch. A man has a yard.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Apparently Kennedy isn't frigid.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

Ground Squirrels are worse than rats.

The bushy tail is just an attempt at sympathy.

[Rev-Match]

I have never thought of Vaseline on the pole - Kennedy

Yea...right...

[GILMORE]

"No ones into hurting squirrels"...

(*thinks about the time he was left on grandads back porch with a 10/22 and LOTS of ammo.)

.... "right. Never. not me."

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

This Mercedes commercial is going to give people seizures.

[Derpetologist]

America is a strange place. There is an enormous demand for violent entertainment, but also a taboo on showing actual violence, particularly killing.

[Rev-Match]

I believe that many (most?) people are incapable of dealing with real violence in real life. This is why so many people freak out rather than absorb information and make decisions when something bad happens. I also think this ties into peoples world view of weapons, specifically firearms, and the hysterics that revolve around discussion of the value of arms in private hands.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Americans need to become Romans. Ruthless.

[Derpetologist]

I got a bit of push-back for suggesting that yesterday.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Really?

If you're gonna have all this military might and get involved in a war don't be half-ass. Do it right.

[GILMORE]

as the resident 'realist'

the question (in my mind) more than 'unrestrained use of force' versus 'minimalist' military efforts....

is, "To what end"? what's the goal?

if you can articulate a goal that can be achieved by carpetbombing all of the sunni regions currently part of ISIS claimed territory, i'd potentially be all for it. Insofar as you can explain how that action would lead to whatever end you think is attainable.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

Great point, which is why I questioned our efforts to ramp up in Afghanistan. We'd already punched the Taliban in the mouth and there was no infrastructure to rebuild. The only reason I saw for it was that BO didn't want to look like a complete pussy.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Absolutely.

[GILMORE]

following from that - i don't know of any realistic/desirable goal to be achieved at the moment via any kind of 'go nuts' military efforts.

If the goal is to help secure kurdish security and independence from greater Iraq (assuming we've written off the fuckers to being iran proxies), then we should say that's what we're doing and tell the Iraqis to go fuck themselves if they're not on board.

Instead what we're doing is some kind of half-assed measure to 'encourage reconciliation' between the 3 ethnic groups and try and hold together the fragile coalitiion still called "Iraq".

I think that is ultimately doomed to failure, and also puts US personnel in a tricky position of fighting IN a country where we do not have any clear allies or mandate from the natives.

The shortest way of putting it is = if we have any interests in the region at all, we need to pick a side.

This bullshit 'dishonest broker' business wins us no friends at all and achieves nothing.

[Derpetologist]

The only goal the US could accomplish through bombing would be to halt the spread of IS and weaken it. An invasion could push them out of Iraq.

Either option just buys some more time for the other groups to prepare their defenses.

I think the best thing to do would be to bomb the crap out of IS, then leave Iraq entirely. And this time, leave all our equipment and weapons to the Kurds. In fact, the DoD should be giving surplus military equipment to the Kurds instead of the US police.

[Irish]

And this time, leave all our equipment and weapons to the Kurds. In fact, the DoD should be giving surplus military equipment to the Kurds instead of the US police.

This a million times. The Kurds are very effective even with little equipment. They could hold out for centuries with American military surplus and it would improve American policing.

[GILMORE]

", leave all our equipment and weapons to the Kurds""

remember that the Kurds want to 'secede'

This is partly why we're NOT helping them do so, or why we didn't arm them before we left (but rather left it with the Baghdad authorities)

If we're going to arm them, we should admit that we're backstopping their independence as well.

All of these actions lead to consequences. We need to know what we want them to be before acting.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Completely agree with GILMORE.

I won't agree with everything he has to say about every subject, but people like Stephen Walt are worth reading on these subjects if for no other reason than that they are willing to bring facts into play with some purpose other than to build an apologetic for/against some foreign policy philosophy, interventionist or otherwise.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Right, exactly.

There isn't really an endgame to the "Nuke the Middle East" strategy which actually resolves things to our favor. I assume that we would still like to buy oil/trade with the Middle East and maintain ports for shipping in e.g. Oman and the Gulf of Aden, which would be a smidge difficult with the region being home to radiation. The same is true of the "Bomb ISIS" strategy, which at best resets the problem rather than resolving it.

[jesse.in.mb]

When did Canadians get so into America flexing muscle abroad?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Nothing to do with being Canadian.

It's an observation.

[BigT]

Any napalm left from Nam? ISIS needs a few doses.

[Derpetologist]

The US banned its use against civilian targets in 2009.

Some Israeli army guy was asked why they still use white phosphorus, which can burn holes in people. The Israeli guy said something like "what do you think a bullet does?"

[BigT]

ISIS ain't civilians. Burn em alive.

Video may inhibit recruiting for jihad.

[GILMORE]

The answer is Willy Pete has other legit military applications. it isn't 'designed' as an anti-personnel munition.

FWIW, I think NAPALM was actually the same deal - originally classified as an 'exfoliant'? but was used so liberally that it got a bad rap.

[Derpetologist]

One of napalm's first uses was for flamethrowers.

[Bobarian (dinosaur hunter)]

Napalm is the same basic ingredient as in flame-throwers, which we used in "the Good War".

Napalm and other flame creating devices serve a lot of purposes. Exfoliant and clearing, area denial, anti-personnel are good examples.

Air-Fuel bombs get used now and that ain't a good way to go, either.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Let's criminalize everything, then we can blame crime for everything.

[Derpetologist]

On the multiple shots issue, here's Sowell:

"Then there are the inevitable bullet counters asking, "Why did he shoot him six times?" This is the kind of thing people say when they are satisfied with talking points, and see no need to stop and think seriously about a life and death question. If you are not going to be serious about life and death, when will you be serious?
By what principle should someone decide how many shots should be fired? The bullet counters seldom, if ever, ask that question, much less try to answer it.

Since the only justifiable reason for shooting in the first place is self-protection, when should you stop shooting? Obviously when there is no more danger. But there is no magic number of shots that will tell you when you are out of danger."

[Fist of Etiquette]

He called it a clip.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Please.

Go talk about black on black crime. Is there a war on blacks there?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

No don't come back.

[GILMORE]

I actually thought CtG was concise (certainly compared to the clusterfuck of the previous '4 white people trying to convince Kmele its all about race' discussion).

why he's a re-appearing guest, i don't know. But he's actually a pretty cool dude, and makes the show appealing to some younger people perhaps.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Meh.

Don't care who you are, but we all know there is no war on blacks just like there isn't one on women.

It's a weak position to take.

[GILMORE]

I thought he said that if there was "a war" it was on civil liberties.

Which seemed a way to turn the rhetoric around on itself.

But whatever.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Might have misheard. I am half deaf in one ear.

[Irish]

Oh Jesus. Richard Dawkins has lost his mind.

InYourFaceNewYorker @InYourFaceNYer
@RichardDawkins @AidanMcCourt I honestly don't know what I would do if I were pregnant with a kid with Down Syndrome. Real ethical dilemma.

Dawkins' Response:

Richard Dawkins ? @RichardDawkins
Follow
@InYourFaceNYer Abort it and try again. It would be immoral to bring it into the world if you have the choice.

I just...I mean, he's basically a eugenicist, right?

[LynchPin1477]

I can't see how this is an ethical dilemma. I haven't met *tons* of people with Down Syndrome, but I have met some, and they almost always seemed happy and able to lead full lives. Even if it didn't seem that way to me, I'm not really in a position to make that judgement for them.

I have to wonder if the real dilemma for the parent is the prospect of taking on that added responsibility.

And yes, Dawkins is awful.

[Irish]

I have to wonder if the real dilemma for the parent is the prospect of taking on that added responsibility.

Exactly, it's selfishness masquerading as altruism. Which, when you think about it, is basically all progressivism is.

[LynchPin1477]

Progressives: using force to make qualitative judgements for other people for over 100 years.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

And militant atheists wonder why they get such a bad rep in the public's eye.

[Irish]

Dawkins is a gift to right and left alike. On the one hand, he allows right-wingers to attack him as a vile, militant, materialistic atheist, but on the other hand he allows leftists to attack him as the worst sort of social Darwinist.

And they're both right!

[Jesus H. Christ]

That's repulsive. He has gone way overboard. It's a shame he's one of the main posterboys for atheism.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Dude, this is Dawkins' MO. He and several other atheists think all sorts of fucked up things about the child-parent relationship and basically define it as is convenient to themselves -- on the one hand the child is just excess matter if it's a Down Syndrome baby, but on the other a religious upbringing for this child is child abuse and his parents should be serving hard time.

It is these tendencies which make most Americans reticent to trust your average Dawkins- (or worse, Marx-)fed atheist power over anything bigger than a hot dog stand.

[Gluesponge]

If Richard Dawkins was pregnant with, well, anything... he should sell the rights to the birth and have a big Pay-Per-View extravaganza... All I want is the footage of him going through hormone fluctuations and craving weird foods...

Dawkins is an insufferable elitist. He is the poster child for "no such thing as peak smug."

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Pretty sure he's one of the guys who was pushing for the atheist movement to rebrand itself as the "brights". Even when I was an atheist, that would have sounded insufferable.

Of all the atheists out there, Penn and Teller are definitely preferable to the smug idiots who currently populate it, such as Sam Harris.

[Irish]

God, fuck Sam Harris.

Sam Harris quotes:

If I could wave a magic wand and get rid of either rape or religion, I would not hesitate to get rid of religion. I think more people are dying as a result of our religious myths than as a result of any other ideology. I would not say that all human conflict is born of religion or religious differences, but for the human community to be fractured on the basis of religious doctrines that are fundamentally incompatible, in an age when nuclear weapons are proliferating, is a terrifying scenario.

He also once approvingly quoted Bertrand Russell when Russell said that Christians have no rational basis through their religion for arguing that it's wrong to murder a baby if you baptize it first.

Apparently neither Harris nor Russell has ever heard of 'Thou Shalt Not Kill.'

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I am sincerely interested in understanding what, if any, contribution to human knowledge the "new atheists" have made in their capacity as atheists. I'll accept the proposition that Dawkins the biologist has made the world a better place; what has Dawkins the atheist (and the rest of the gang) done for us? Say what you will about Voltaire and the other Enlightenment Deists, they were at least interesting and arguably had a positive impact on some aspects of European law and society. What the fuck have the "brights" done besides bitch and moan about Nativity scenes and scream about being sexually harassed by their own congregants in their own conferences?

I wish I could still be an atheist, so that I could write a book that attacked religion at a level and a context higher than what Dawkins and co heard in 9th-grade Sunday School.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Oh, and "new atheism" needs to find a better socio-political program and stop mocking the ones that were actually unique and different. I have no love for Objectivism, but it is an atheist system of thought and fairly original, as well -- far more so than the warmed-over gruel of quasi-utilitarian leftism that your average "new atheist" believes whilst sneering at Ayn Rand. Hell, even Marx had a better system of thought than these assholes -- if I'm an atheist, I want to have something a little more interesting than what we have now minus the God-Freaks.

[LynchPin1477]

I purposely avoid Dawkins and his ilk, but if the few quotes I have heard are any indication, I, as a practicing religious person, could come up with a better argument against religion.

Which shouldn't be very surprising when you consider that they seem to attack the caricature of religion they have in their heads and are intent on fighting battles that ended 400 years ago.

[LynchPin1477]

There was a time when different Christian denominations were fundamentally incompatible. Same for Christianity and Judaism. Radical Islam is a problem, but this too shall pass.

And, yeah, the rape thing. That's fucked up. He thinks it's much better to get rid of a basis for voluntary association than it is to get rid of the brutal physical and emotional violation of another human being. That's sick.

[Gluesponge]

I agree wholeheartedly. Penn and Teller are atheists that don't grate on my nerves. I know it's Dawkins' (for lack of a better term) crusade against superstition, but jeebus, lighten up... life's short enough as it is..

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I always thought so.

[Juice]

I just...I mean, he's basically a eugenicist, right?

If he advocated forced abortions, yes. In this case, no.

[BigT]

Mo'ne's team getting killed. She was OK, gave up triple and HR, but only 3 runs. 70 mph is faster than most male HS pitchers

[LynchPin1477]

I'm finally going to trade in my flip phone for a smartphone. I'm on Verizon and want an Android device, but I don't want one of those huge phones that seem popular these days. Something more in line with the size of an iPhone, maybe a wee bit bigger. Battery life is also a top priority, but coming from a flip phone, I don't need all the bells and whistles. Suggestions? Anyone have experience with the Moto X or RAZR M?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I got used to the size of the Galaxy S5.

[LynchPin1477]

It seems like way too much. I like something I can fit in my pocket.

And when did big phones even become a thing?

[db]

LG g2 is the fastest phone our there right no, with the possible exception of LG g3.

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[GILMORE]

Eyyyaaah! DOBBS!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

The Sports Illustrated curse already hit Mo'ne Davis. Got hit for 3 runs and Philly is going down 8-1

[Rock Action]

She did strike out six, but I think Nevada hit Mo'ne Davis more than the SI curse did. Still, she's pitched more than admirably. I kind of like how they send her out to play shortstop after she's done pitching (at least in the video clip that I heard). Love that. Means you're the best player on your team in LL, at least defensively.

[Calidissident]

LMAO at the idiot who thought that was a gang sign.

[AdamJ]

What the eff reason? This is the fifth image of a guy about to get beheaded today. Maybe your readers don't want to be bombarded with this shit? Can't you just post a link?