The Independents

Tonight on The Independents: The War on Men


Who's hot and who's not! |||

Is there a "War on Men"? Lots of people seem to think so, and a few of them will be on tonight's episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, repeats three hours later). They include:

* Christina Hoff Summers, author of the The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men.

* Gavin McInnes, blunt-spoken miscreant, and author of "Let's Not Let Boys Be Boys."

Pushing back on the thesis will be Jill Filipovic of Feministe, and your ever-skeptical co-hosts. McInnes and Red Eye regular Joanne Nosuchinsky will also play a riveting game of "Name That Sexist."

Aside from earnings disparities, divorce settlements, zero-tolerance policies, and custody cases, "The War on Men" will also hit on a couple of other important public policy issues:

* Sexual assault on campus, both the incidence and investigation thereof. Foundation for Individual Rights in Education President Greg Lukianoff will talk about the latest developments.

* Injustice in paternity establishment and related child-support issues. Paternity fraud activist Carnell Smith joins.

It's a fun and informative show, and you should watch it on your television set. Also, it repeats at 2 a.m. ET, and again Saturday at 11 p.m. ET.

Follow The Independents on Facebook at, on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

NEXT: Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin Gay Marriage Recognition Ban

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  1. Who’s hot and who’s not![sic]

    That’s not for me to decide. We already have a poster for that.

    1. I think Nikki and Jesse have the men sorted out, and since there are no female libertarians…

      1. Isn’t Kennedy a libertarian? She’s…cute, I guess. And ENB? And Lucy? And I know there were female libertarians back when Postrel was in charge.


        2. Don’t bring your MALE GAZE around here, monster!

        3. Did anyway notice the new intern earlier?

          *Feels like dirty old man*

          1. “My first blog post for @reason is on tits, of course.”

            She appears to be trying to fit in.

        4. Kennedy is a hag.

      2. We’re still working on it. Nicole made some gains this morning by being in the right timezone at the right time.

        1. This whole thing makes me feel unsafe.

          1. I’m aroused by this, continue.

            1. Coincidentally enough, my safe word is continue.

              1. You, sir, are no fun at all.

        2. This isn’t a contest, jesse. It’s mutually beneficial cooperation.

          1. Of course, of course.

            1. She’s lulling you into a false sense of security.

              1. I know, she swept up GILMORE with zero remorse down below.

                I should’ve known better, she is the worst.

  2. I have been eagerly anticipating this since the feminist politicization of the rodger murders.

  3. I hope Welch doesn’t try to put me in a camp for complaining about this post being so early.

    1. Shouldn’t you be furiously refreshing for the links?

      1. Goddammit!

        1. F5 is a sucker’s game.

  4. Over/under on mentions of Elliot Rodger: 3.

    1. Is that in separate segments or can all of the mentions be in one provided they lead to different points?

      1. Let’s say mentions of him during the “war on boys” segment, whatever that is. If we want to make it more difficult, we can say mentions of him in order to support assertions about “rape culture”.

        1. Hmmm.. that’s a tough call, but I’m going to have faith in TI and go with the under in that case. Probably foolish, but then, I am a libertarian.

  5. Near as I can tell, there is overt, explicit institutional bias against men in a number of institutions, including the courts and schools.

    There is no such bias, that I can tell, against women in any institution.

    Things get a lot murkier, I guess, when you are talking social/cultural bias. There’s probably some going both ways. My guess is that the “No War on Men” crowd are going to talk about murky, unfalsifiable “discrimination” in favor of men in, say, the workplace, and aren’t going to be able to point to any overt and explicit discrimination in favor of men anywhere.

    But I think the term “War on Men” implies that we are talking about something overt and explicit.

    1. Check your early-slipping-of-this-mortal-coil privilege, Dean.

  6. The War on Men/Boys begins in public school:

    *Boys are 125 percent more likely than girls to be diagnosed with ADHD
    *Boys make up 70% of suspensions
    *Boys are 5 times more likely to be expelled

    The answer of course is to punish, label, and medicate them. Oh, and to #banbossy.

    1. Yeah, but on the plus side, they’re much more likely to die from violent causes, and don’t live as long as women.

      So – it all evens out.

      1. True, also much more likely to kill themselves, become drug addicts, alcoholics, and go to prison longer for committing the same crime as a woman.


    2. None of that, on its own, is evidence of a War on Men/Boys

  7. Joanne Nosuchinsky is so damned cute and funny. She’s like a barrel of kittens.

    1. Whos that girl… Julie something or other… Borowski?

      have her on more. She works well.

      1. I like Julie, her videos are funny and reach a younger demographic, and she is very naturally likable. But I’d have to go with Cathy Reisenwitz for her ability to address an audience and hit talking-points reliably. Plus, Borowski is a social conservative, which puts her at odds with many people, including Reisenwitz, on occasion.

        1. And we wouldn’t want to ruin that *awesome* cosmo-cred, amirite?

          1. Libertarianz needz moar womynz, can’t lie there.

  8. DON’T ANYONE BE FOOLED. This show was taped weeks ago.

    1. yeah they advertised it last week, I was all excited, and… it was a different, far less interesting episode.

      I wonder why the delay?

      1. Because they’re liars. It’s what Fox News channels do. Also, they wanted to put on that college graduates episode last Friday.

    2. You lie, boy.

      1. You’re lucky he’s Asian or else that might have been racist!

        1. Fist is Asian?

          1. It’s not canon, but yes.

            1. That explains his First posting hacking skills.

              Bet he is great at starcarft…and has a small penis.

              1. No idea why i said all that.

                The first post wars has turned me into a monster.

                1. It would explain my consistent 21.5 BMI. That other thing is just a myth. Asians aren’t all great hackers.

      2. Next time prove me wrong by holding up a newspaper.

        1. I think that’s the job of the “guests”, Fist.

          1. While blinking S.O.S. into the camera.


  10. I predict this topic will summon a gibbering, relentless demon of outrage from the warp.

    The intensity on subsequent two minutes hates is also likely to exceed 11, which is good actually, because all men play on ten (or ostensibly above ten).

  11. MATRIARCHY!!!11!!1!!!

  12. Will this show feature trigger warnings …about, i don’t know, War?

    Mansplaining? Phallocentric Architecture (it can give me seizures)

    A Generic Warning about there being a lot of feminists needing to chime in on why this ‘War on Men’ thing is total bullshit, but like, the War on Women, now… well, that’s more complicated?

    These ‘idea wars’?… like War on Drugs, War on Poverty, etc? They don’t seem to go very well. Just saying.

  13. I think the whole California-“You need to have a woman fill out a form if you want to fuck without it being Rape”-thing may actually officially qualify as a One-Toke-Over-The-Line level of bullshit

    (i am aware it is not yet law. but still)

    If they could keep the show down to like, 3-4 topics or so (I know, unpossible)… there’s actually some interesting discussion to be had on stuff like that.

    1. Stop pretending you are watching for more than the clothes.

      Oh, and jesse? Dibs.

      1. Damn. Good call.

        1. Sometimes it’s kind of a contest.

          1. Fine, I’m taking Rufus and HM, they both spawned from tailors, no?

            1. Sure sure. And I’m taking Francisco.

              1. I really should’ve come out of the gate more aggressively, no?

                Notice: I’ve claimed Irish below. And I’ll put in for Thane/Carl. I need an IT staff.

                1. I’ll take this Greg fellow from F.I.R.E. while I’m at it.

      2. So, uh, what about me? I’d much rather be in your camp, Nicole. I find Jesse’s beard…off-putting.

        1. I take it, then, that you are yourself beardless? If so, come on down.

          1. If you want to take his beard, I’m sorry but you’re gonna have to go through me.

            1. Wouldn’t you be his beard?

              1. Uh, if he were not straight, maybe.

                Let me assure you wholeheartedly that he is, indeed, one hundred percent heterosexual.

                1. I have no opinion on the subject one way or the other. However, unlike apparently some people here, I don’t see thinking of someone as possibly homosexual as an insult.

                  Boom! Turned it around on you.

                  1. Did you, though? Really?

              2. CHICK FIGHT!

      3. If you think its really about “clothes”, and not “finding an excuse to bust Matt’s balls endlessly”…

        … you’d be partially correct! I genuinely think Kmele has great taste.

  14. Rand Paul gives great speech to Texas GOP, but unfortunately he made a disparaging joke about Democrats so that’s all that will be talked about

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) offered some red meat to the Texas GOP convention on Friday, suggesting that, instead of Guantanamo Bay detainees, President Barack Obama should use Democrats such as Hillary Clinton as a bargaining chip in any future dealings with the Taliban.

    “Mr. President, you love to trade people,” he told a supportive crowd in Fort Worth, according to Politico.

    “Why don’t we set up a trade? But this time, instead of five Taliban, how about five Democrats?” he joked. “I’m thinking John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi …”

    The Kentucky Republican, who is making moves toward a presidential run in 2016, also criticized the administration for failing to properly notify Congress before the trade for Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl on Saturday.

    “I don’t know about y’all, but I’ve been a little bit annoyed with the president,” he added. “Releasing five Taliban senior officials is not only against the law, it’s illegal and wrong and he should never have done it.”

    Dumb joke, but I’m pretty sure the HuffPo SuperUsers, Salonistas, and Rawtards routinely compare the GOP to the Taliban.

    1. I’m not sure how illegal this was, actually. The detainees were not prisoners of a declared war, he is the Commander in Chief, and the President has the power of executive pardon, in any case. Yes, there’s a law that he has to give notice, but that doesn’t give Congress the option of NOT releasing them, as far as I’m aware.

      That said, it was a damn fool move on Rand’s part to say what he said. He could be a real threat in 2016, if only as a disruptive factor in the primaries, and stuff like this gives the GOP fuel for dissing him, as well.

      1. He’ll walk it back and apologize and it’ll be good. It’s just a pity he said that since otherwise his speech was outstanding:

        Example 1

        Example 2

        Just a few examples of stuff he says that will set him apart from every other candidate.

        1. Rand has a great take on the issues, and is smart enough not to push his personal social conservatism into his politics. It’s a shame that the one unfortunate snarky remark he makes is the one that will be attached to him in the public eye.

      2. It was just a joke, of course the dems will try to make a big deal out of it, but really, will anyone really care? I hope not.

    2. ” I’m pretty sure the HuffPo SuperUsers, Salonistas, and Rawtards routinely compare the GOP to the Taliban.”


  15. World leaders assemble to commemorate D-Day– With an interpretative dance!

  16. You may shed some manly tears

    t’s not quite Father’s Day yet, but a Louisville, Kentucky, man’s love and generosity should rev your engine if you’re thinking about your own dear old dad.

    Mike King says in a Reddit thread posted Friday that his father, Roger, always dreamed of owning a 1957 Chevy Bel-Air. Mike even promised, at age 8, that someday he would buy that car for his dad, who he says grew up poor in a family of seven children.

    On Roger’s 57th birthday, Mike fulfilled that promise and unveiled the classic car to his dad. It was all captured in a video uploaded to YouTube earlier this week.

    In the video Roger is distracted trying to fix a cornhole game board in his son’s driveway. Mike opens the garage door to reveal the car and when his dad notices it, Mike simply says, “Happy birthday.” The two men hug and Roger sobs in his son’s arms. They hug again when Mike hands Roger the keys in the garage. His dad checks out the car and leans over to kiss it.

    Or shed some tears for Mother Gaia since that car must emit a lot of carbon.

    1. I hope my kid comes up with that. Only, you know, with enough money to keep his old man in hookers and blow for a month.

  17. Today on Derpbook:

    Also free association is bullshit. It only works against discrimination in the idealized world of economic theory. Fear and separation are core tools of advertising and marketing. When actual human behavior is introduced free association leads to the worst and most base forms of tribalism.

    1. Tip of the hat to that person for nicely exposing the misanthropy at the core of the Nanny State ideology.

      You can’t just leave people alone, man. They’re too barbaric and immoral. No, they require a cabal of Top Men with the right vision and enough coercive authority to keep them in line.

      1. You can’t just let *anyone* come into the room. They’ll see the big board!

    2. I’d love to hit the derper with a follow up on “what level of coercion is acceptable to force people to associate?

      Fines, sure. Do they have the stones to follow through with violence? Armed force? Flash bangs on babies? How far?

      1. He has no problem fining or imprisoning people for refusing to sell a cake.

  18. Pushing back on the thesis [that there is a war on men] will be Jill Filipovic of Feministe

    And here to push back on this mythical “war on humanity,” The Independents will bring in a very affable cylon from Caprica.

    Good one, Independents.


    1. The article indicates it is likely he was from Louisiana and thus fought for the South.

      Thus his treasonous remains should be sold and give as reparations to the descendants of slaves.

      1. Make it into a goblet, like the old barbarians did with the skulls of their enemies.

      2. OR! they could just give them the head.

        They could share it. It would make a great conversation piece at parties.

        1. The could have an annual “Kick a Dead Honkey’s Head” day. It would be like an exercise-promoting thing.

  19. “Museum gets slate likely used by Lincoln as a boy”…..n-as-a-boy

  20. “These Men Waged War, So We Might Know Peace”
    – In unrelated news, Obama spends another $1bn in attempt to get up in Russia’s shit on the same day

    1. His presidency is like a bad episode of The West Wing.

  21. “Skull of Civil War soldier found at Gettysburg to be auctioned…

    “The skull was found in 1949 on private land near Benner’s Farm, site of a Confederate field hospital, by someone tilling a garden, he said. A breastplate found nearby came from a Louisiana unit of the Confederate Army, [auctioneer Thomas Taylor] said….

    “The sale probably does not violate federal law, provided the skull was found outside the 1949 boundaries of the park, [Gettysburg National Park spokeswoman Katie Lawhon] said.”…..0P20140605

    1. Oops, Gilmore scooped me and the auction seems to have been cancelled. But I have a good story below!

  22. “Circumcision Gas Station Mural Sparks Protests in Cleveland…

    “The mural appears on the side wall of Biggie’s Foodmart and gas station in Cleveland. Written above the graphic image of are the words:

    “Talmudic Priests in Church: Sex With Minors Permited [sic].”
    It apparently depicts the metzitzah b’peh ritual, the controversial practice in which a mohel sucks the blood from an infant’s penis after circumcision.

    “The gas station owner, Abe Ayad, refused to comment….

    “On the adjacent wall to the circumcision mural is another similar image with the title “The Faces Of?.Jesus.” The first line of the graphic reads: “To Jews he’s a bastard, who’s in hell.” Curiously, underneath the image’s third depiction of Jesus are the words “Palestinian Born,” in smaller letters.”…..tests-in/?

    1. It apparently depicts the metzitzah b’peh ritual, the controversial practice in which a mohel sucks the blood from an infant’s penis after circumcision.


      And that is kosh?

      1. Most Jews aren’t into that, I understand.

        But note what the article doesn’t spell out about the owner.

      2. Better subset of this story:

        How 11 New York City Babies Contracted Herpes Through Circumcision

        11 baby boys in New York City were infected with herpes between Nov. 2000 and Dec. 2011 following an ultra-Orthodox Jewish circumcision ritual called metzitzah b’peh ? or oral suction ? in which the mohel puts his mouth directly on the newborn’s circumcised penis and sucks away the blood.

        Ten of the babies were hospitalized, at least two developed brain damage and two died, according to the New York City health department.

        If that doesn’t summon Nicole, nothing will.

        1. I was called an anti-Semite for posting a similar story on Derpbook.

          1. Huh. This seems like something that could be handled within the ultra-Orthodox community without ending the practice. It is a serious issue that needs to be advertised within the community so parents can make informed decisions about it.

            I don’t see how it would be anti-Semitic to know about this.

            1. There is absolutely no reason to perform metzitzah b’peh in the modern era. Back before antiseptics it might have made sense considering the natural antiseptics in saliva, but now, no. There is no religious mandate to do it. It is indefensible from every perspective.

              1. Thanks for the background on that. I’ve only heard about it through the horror stories and assumed it was considered part of the ceremony.

            2. Here’s how it works: progs believe that there are various groups which are above criticism. Jews are one of those groups. It doesn’t matter if the criticism is valid. If it makes Jews look bad, it is antisemitic. Same goes for gays, blacks, Muslims, etc.

              1. Exception: Jews can be criticized by blacks or Muslims, within broad parameters.

              2. progs believe that there are various groups which are above criticism. Jews are one of those groups.

                I say this with care and concern. Are you fucking nuts, man? Do the letters BDS mean anything to you? Progressives make up the rank and file of the “new antisemitism” in every college, university, and NGO.

                1. Let me rephrase- they believe Jews are above criticism from non-progs. Progs can criticize anyone for any reason.

              3. Here’s how it works: progs believe that there are various groups which are above criticism. Jews are one of those groups.


                Plenty of progs hate Jews.

              4. Here’s how it works: progs believe that there are various groups which are above criticism.

                I’d wager that 80% of anti-semitism in America is from the progressive left.

                Colleges are hot beds of Jew-hatred.

  23. There’s a war on men?

    Not worried.

    I’m a man by law but really a boy by nature.

  24. A friend posted a video of a cat playing Jenga on some content mill called “upvines.” Normally I aggressively scroll past these things, but the title caught my attention:

    This Cat Is Playing A Game That you Won’t Laterally Believe She Does This.

    I will pay someone to make a plugin that scrubs everything from BuzzVineUpFeed from my facebook feed and the broader internet.

    1. I weep for the future of language.

      1. The sentence is incoherent to begin with, but the laterally bit makes me extra ragey.

        1. This is why I like you & will let you live when I rule the world.

          1. Are you just trying to butter me up so I won’t claim Serious? He’s already in a boxcar on his way to camp nicole.

            1. Why do you both hate me??

              1. No one said you wouldn’t be allowed to visit!

                1. Just let me keep my red beard. I promise it is well-kept.

                2. Just promise me you’ll take good care of him, okay?

                  1. Don’t worry. He’ll be in good hands.

    1. Since no one is in the office, I agree.

  25. War on men? More like moron when? Think about it.

  26. No ear-rings on the ‘War on Men’ show?

    Is this part of the war?

  27. How about we stop the War on Metaphors?

    1. The War on Similes would like a word.

      1. You mean it is like there is a war on similes.

  28. Did Gavin just cross his eyes?

  29. War on men? Welch says no, more like men in black.

  30. Is she for real?

  31. He sounds like an MRA Al Sharpton. Don’t call it discrimination.

  32. From the side that honey looks like Anna Kendrick.

  33. Tonight is going to get old fast.


  35. Way to start the show on the high road.

  36. Joint custody? Yeah, not really the same as what dads are asking for.

  37. Within 5 mins they’ve turned what could have been a very straightforward discussion of issues about pop-culture biases, into NO FUCK YOU I HAVE MY OWN FACTS~!

  38. Oppressed by traditional gender roles, like women!

    Fatherhood crisis caused by traditional gender roles!

  39. Let’s bring this back to Murphy Brown, shall we?

  40. Thank you Kmele, for restoring order and resetting the discussion.

  41. What? Wait? War on men? Impossible! Because… privilege!

  42. How many “crises” did the lady just name? Fatherhood? Mental health? etc. Is everything a ‘crisis’ but nothing is a actually part of any larger cultural trend?

    Thank god Kmele makes sense when everyone else is an idiot

  43. Whatever the reasons, it damages the kids unfortunately.

    1. Let me amend: It can affect them negatively.

  44. Gavin has some valid points, but his inability to express them without offending everyone else really sucks.

    Please argue for the other side.

    1. They knew what they were getting when they brought him on.

    2. I like that he freaks people out because behind it I see his point.

    3. Please argue for the other side.

      Took the words right out of my mouth. I don’t think I want him speaking for men on this one, thanks.

  45. More from Derpbook:

    Prog 1:

    What I think should be done is if someone purchased a gun for one year an entity weather it be government or private will hold on to the name and receipt if someone is purchasing more than 6 firearms a year without a trade in they the’re name should be turned into state authorities to be checked out to make sure they still own the firearms or if they have sold them. If more than three guns are bought in a span of two months that should also be a flag. I do believe in a test and background check of one’s mental health should be done but with in reason.

    Prog 2:

    I think a similar system would work as well, and possibly a database/website like that is linked to the buyers drivers license or social security number that would flag any suspicious purchasing activity or criminal record. Then require ANY gun seller private or otherwise to register the transfer just like with a car title that can only be cleared with the background check.

    1. Like I said, just attack a bureaucrat to each family, hand over the helmets and end freedom already.

    2. Hilarious. These motherfuckers have no idea.

    3. What I think should be done is if someone purchased a gun for one year an entity weather it be government or private will hold on to the name and receipt if someone is purchasing more than 6 firearms a year without a trade in they the’re name should be turned into state authorities to be checked out to make sure they still own the firearms or if they have sold them. If more than three guns are bought in a span of two months that should also be a flag. I do believe in a test and background check of one’s mental health should be done but with in reason.

      This is exactly the level of grammar I expect from progressives. This guy should get a job blogging for Raw Story.

  46. Women face institutional discrimination, men face “challenges”.

    This is… tiring.

    1. All these fatherless children are out there because of traditional gender roles!

      So I suppose the insistence on traditional gender roles must have *increased* since the 1960s, which is when the number of fatherless children began increasing.

  47. I wasn’t listening to what she was saying. I could only focus on that nose stud.

  48. People do want to not hire females in some cases, because of things like maternity issues.

    1. Females are a protected class. Hiring any protected class is a risky proposition. If they don’t work out, you’re fucked.

  49. Could Jill and Gavin just fuck and get it over with?

    1. Right there on the table.

    2. I saw that movie. What was it called? With the conservative guy and the liberal woman TV commentators who argued with each other?

        1. Thank you!

          Wait, was that a joke?

  50. So what is that stat?

    “Single women make more then single men”?

    Where can i find that stat?

    1. Seriously, I would LOVE to see that because I’ve always made exactly what my male coworkers have made.

      1. opps i think it was single childless women.

        not just single…

        god damn no rewind on live streams!!!

        1. I am all of those things, still.

          1. Well, in that case, hand over some of your high pay!

          2. The married childful woman in my office makes more then me.

            not sure we can figure this out with anecdotes.

  51. I accidentally bought nonfat chocolate milk, apparently. But spoiler alert: it’s not bad.

    1. Why not just by milk and have chocolate syrup or Ovaltine on hand?

      Hershey’s Special Dark syrup is much better than I was expecting.

      1. Dark chocolate is an abomination. Except when paired with mint of some sort.

  52. Why are they getting suspended? Is there a Ritalin shortage all the sudden?

    1. They’ve all accidentally been given Ritalout.

  53. There should be different lines for boys and girls, obviously.

  54. The pussification of America. That was the turning point. I blame Paul Reiser.

    1. I blame Charles Nelson Reilly.

    2. Not to generalize, but have you seen how young teenage boys dress now? Even how they stand screams ‘invade us now. We’re there for the taking.’

  55. I like this woman.

    1. Gavin: “Well, I could talk calmly and reasonably if I were *sober* like Little Miss Perfect over there!”

    1. Dibs.

    2. Gotta be fake. Or they’re buying the black vote. Or…

      1. They saw the word ‘Negro’ and couldn’t resist?

      2. Epic trolling.

  56. When I was in the 11th grade, our AP history quietly asked for all the men to leave. I don’t know what we did to piss her off- she wouldn’t tell us, nor did the girls.

    The most rambunctious thing we did was have a Chinese fire drill one day after we came back from lunch. Everybody laughed, so I didn’t think it was a big deal.

  57. Anne of Green Gables.

    I will always hate my school for making me read that novel.

    1. At least it wasn’t Ethan Frome.

    2. I never figured out how many Catherines there were in Wuthering Heights

      1. Two.

    3. Come on, Rufus, we know you’re legally obligated to favor Canlit.

      1. Heh.

        I had to read Margaret Atwood too.

        /slumps. Sighs.

  58. Kennedy should have made that guy on the street give her a backrub.

  59. Has Matt opened his mouth yet?

    1. I’ve asked like four questions so far!

      1. Really? I must have blacked out during those parts.

        1. Trying to be terse, etc.

          1. You’re succeeding.

        2. Maybe you should scale back on the drinking?

          1. I fail to see what my ginger ale has to do with Matt being mean to me.

            1. Upscale yourself to ginger beer, woman. THEN add lime, bitters and whiskey.

              It’ll totally make up for losing Serious to Nicole.

              1. That looks like a fancy drink. Maybe when I have a job.

                & STOP REMINDING ME.

              2. +1 on Reed’s. Some of the best ginger beer, I’ve had outside of Trinidad.

                1. I’ve tried quite a few and their extra ginger is one of my favorites, it’s also delightfully easy to find.

  60. Feminine itch – part of the War on Women!

    1. War?

      Hell, I’m the *cure* to Feminine Itch.

      Bow chicka bow chicka wow wowwwww

  61. Feminine itch cream ad!!!

    I am oppressed!!!

    1. But has your itch cleared up?

  62. Isn’t Nifong currently in prison? He was the prosecutor right?

    1. Disbarred, 1 day in prison.

    2. As reported at Reason a few days ago, Mike Nifong also railroaded a man by withholding exculpatory evidence from the defense.

      The man ended up doing over 20 years in prison.

      1. If I’m not mistaken he tried to come back or claim he was mistreated or something along those lines?

  63. It’s not a ‘crazy idea.’ It’s legal, moral and intellectual bankruptcy.

  64. Kennedy gives the unnecessary qualifier that sexual assault is terrible.

    1. To be fair, Gavin may genuinely not know that.

      1. Oh come on.

        He is married and has a kid.

        1. Three, actually.

          1. Even morons have kids.

            1. He had the best score on the sexism quiz – almost a perfect score!

  65. Academics are generally seldom wrong. Usually it’s reality that’s wrong.

    1. Good one! If I can remember that, I will use it.

  66. Kennedy – rush to judgment has always happened in history.

    The Ox-Bow Incident:

  67. “It’s an interesting discussion.” One of the few times she can say that on < i The Independents.

  68. Women are more sexist!!


    Shit! That just made me sexist.

  69. Bullshit, college students are adults. The college should have nothing at all to do with policing sexual relationships between adults. Educate people better, maybe?

    1. Educating young adults is a lost cause in most cases, I fear.

    2. The issue will start growing moot with online education, but the residential college model is basically a set-up for hanky-panky.

      1. The issue will start growing moot with online education

        Wait until people start talking about “cyber-” sexual assault.

        1. Shyeah, you’ve clearly not spent time on Tumblr. This totally already exists in their fractured little heads.

          1. You know, I had hoped that we would have made it to the Singularity.

  70. The Independents Attire Review, 6 June 2014


    – Kennedy: Premi?re partie – Kennedi L’orange, avec un pendentif. French. I do not speak it.

    – Matt: Like the credits of an avant-garde French film. Black. White. Finis. I contemplate the clothing, but I feel nothing. I do not even think about a Royale With Cheese.

    – Kmele: We have seen colors. We have seen an absense of color. Kmele is in grey. Whomever is responsible for this juveile, reductive art-direction insults me with their hamhanded visual dichotomy. All that matters here is that Kmele continues to take whatever end of the spectrum he is given and CRUSHES IT MERCILESSLY with impeccable taste. I confess I don’t even know where he gets his supply of these short-collar shirts, because they are so apropos, yet so rarely seen. The man has his finger on the pulse of Madison Avenue.

    – Gavin: In the War on Men, The Independents seem to have chosen Bozo The Clown to wage the counter-attack. Next time, at least give him a weapon. It wasn’t pretty.

    – Token Female Whatshername: You’re cute, honey. You talk too much. Why don’t you get me a sandwich.

    – Bearded Dude: Jesus, you idiot. Pinstripes =/ Sportcoat. Your mom is embarrassed.

    You Win Ladies. Take The World. We’ll Keep the Beer and Let You Do All the Work Now

    1. correction: ‘Sammich’

    2. In the spirit of open discourse, I offer the following observations:

      The last thing I notice about anyone is their clothes. I would wear a bathrobe everywhere if I could. I dress for survival and comfort- nothing else.

      Guys with tucked-in polo shirts never do anything.

      Guys who wear suits outside of job interviews, weddings, funeral, and courtrooms are almost always shameless liars.

      In most of the rest of the world, the only thing that matters is that your clothes are clean, intact, and modest.

      No amount of nice clothing can hide an ugly body.

      Women are always more impressed with clothes than men are. I have no idea why. Sign of wealth, maybe?

      If I had a time machine, I would kill whoever invented tucking in shirts.

      1. What do you mean by “never do anything?”

        1. He means they play golf.

  71. So how about making app that allows you to record an audio clip where you and your partner verbalize consent?

    Or just stand on the side of your campus mall and sell sexual consent contracts?

  72. Does anyone think Sotomayor still menstruates?


  73. I believe in ancient societies it was considered extremely taboo for men to EVER discuss or mention ….lady’s monthly visit…

    and there was a good reason.

    1. Well shit, the Orthodox Christians don’t let them in church when Aunt Flo visits, right? Or maybe that’s Orthodox Jews. In any case, one of the beardo religions has the right idea about broads.

      1. It’s the Jews. It’s always the Jews.

  74. Of course Sir Sean said that should only be a recourse if you let the woman have the last word in an argument and she still won’t let it go and wants to escalate it.

    1. Not helping yourself here, my dear.

      1. Didn’t say I agreed. But that interview with Barbara Walters is priceless.

  75. Gavin is an expert at sexism?

    1. Turns out.

  76. Props guy is going to have a word.

    1. I’m assuming that’s “Bernie Maxsmith”.

    2. I am actually impressed.

      Of course i don’t even lift..

      That or those things were made out of balsa wood.

    3. It’s a woman, you sexist.

      1. “It’s”? Why don’t you just use the t-word on her you cisprivileged bigot!

      2. As I typed that I actually considered adding “or lady” parenthetically as a joke. That should count for something.

      3. That does explain why the sign was so easily crushed I suppose.

  77. He musta been a handful in school.

  78. Gavin just hulked the whole set….

  79. You see what I mean about Gavin not exactly being the Warfighter for Man-Kind?

  80. Pirates over Brewers 13-3 in the 7th. Apparently Seth Meyers in the booth is good luck. Or is it…?

    1. Did football season start?

  81. Wait, is Gavin plastered for real?

  82. In Grade two the teacher – who everyone loved – split the class along boys and girls and proceeded to have us compete in math. In pairs of two, she’d hold up a addition or subtraction card and the first one to answer got a point. Well, we were tied and it came down to me and Stefania (who I dated on and off by the way) and I won (the question was 4 + 3) for the good guys. I remember the guys going nuts and she asked us to pick the color of the chart she was going to use to keep score throughout the year. Shouts of blue ripped through the class. What could I do? I gave what the people wanted. The girls chose pink.

    Imagine this happening today.

    Incidentally, as the year went on we held a slight lead. The girls I grew up with were pretty strong in math/algebra/calculus.

    1. “(who I dated on and off by the way)”

      In second grade?

      1. To be fair, Rufus was 15 at the time.

        1. Look at you, all nimble fingered.

      2. He was repeatedly held back. He was 13 at the time.

        1. You are too slow, that is why Nikki is winning.

          1. Are you claimed yet?

            1. No, I’m still free, but likely to fall into category 3.

              1. Reasons for unfuckability?

                1. Old fat guy.

                  After 20+ yrs of marriage, my wife has declared me unfuckable.

                  1. That’s terrible. Would she stab you if you had a mistress or hooker?

                    I feel like being declared unfuckable entitles one to some regular infidelity.

                  2. After 20+ yrs of marriage, my wife has declared me unfuckable.

                    On the other hand if you made it 20+ years before that happened you are probably ahead of the rest of your age cohort, so, silver lining?

        2. Ok.

          I laughed at both of those.

      3. Don’t hate on a player

      4. Later on. We started liking each other in the 5th grade and it went on for years. Forget it. It’s complicated.

        1. I’d let it die if I were you…

          1. It did peter out.

            1. Poor peter

  83. Courts aren’t interested in truth? Who would have guessed, an institution made up at every level of attorneys, would be such.

  84. My god, that guy is so black, Kmele looks sunburned!

  85. That guy could cause a pregnancy with the sound of his voice

    1. I’m just shocked that he can speak about this so calmly.

      He is, literally, the Anti-Gavin.

      1. And articulates well.

        Unlike you know who.

        1. ‘He speaks well for a negro.’ Harry Reid.

        2. Kennedy or Matt?

          1. Obama.

  86. Is the chick on the panel earlier listening to this?

    1. She has a name you know. It’s Jill Fallopian.

      1. Whatever. I missed it. I’m just a boy.

  87. He’s learned that women are lying ho’s, so yeah, he’s for the delivery room paternity test. HE’S EARNED THAT.

    1. I remember reading about a study on blood types.

      Basically the researchers were not looking into paternity but looking at if one parent over the other determines blood type. They discovered that 10% of the children in the study had a blood type that neither the mother or “father” had….

      The study was done in like the 40s or 50s before the sexual revolution.

  88. Man comes home to his wife on their anniversary and says to her “Honey, lately I’ve realized I haven’t been paying enough attention to you. I’ve spent far too much time at work. So for anniversary I’ll buy you anything you want. Diamonds, a trip around the world, just name it.”

    The wife says “I want a divorce.”

    The man says “Oh. Well to be honest I wasn’t planning on spending that much.”

    1. Guy comes home from work, waving a lottery ticket, and yells “honey I got the winning ticket, start packing!”

      Woman, running excitedly up the stairs, “oh my god, where are we going?”

      “I don’t care, just be out of here by sundown.”

    2. Wife: I want to go somewhere different for vacation.
      Husband: Try the kitchen.

      1. Told differently:

        Wife: I want to go somewhere I’ve never been for vacation.
        Husband: Try the kitchen.

  89. Bernie Ecclestone(sp?) for the win!

  90. Marriage is a unit, so let’s have the husband pay off on divorce!

  91. I’m fairly certain that implying women only take care of children & contribute nothing more to a household is insanely sexist, ma’am.

    1. Who said that, and how did she get a hold of my political manifesto?

    2. It’s insanely sexist to imply that women perform what is essentially the entire purpose of a child raising family? Huh?

  92. No shit, women aren’t throwing themselves at Gavin?

    1. He already has a beard.

    2. Godfather of hipsters in New York who works at vice.

      Not that there is anything wrong with fringed lesbians…but if you surround yourself with them….

      I am sure he could get laid with another man pretty easy.

      1. He founded Vice, and sold his interest in 2007 or so. just FYI

        1. point being that he works in New Media in new york.

          Women in those circles are not going to throw themselves at any man.

  93. Military retirement is always half, and that is complete bullshit.


    Here is a middle class woman destroying her half of the vet.

  95. What was beeped there? Bitch?

    1. I think so.

  96. here’s a question =

    man dates woman. woman gets pregnant. woman has abortion. never tells man. they separate. years pass. they meet again years later while guy is dating someone else. while having drinks, and guy not around, ex-GF tells now-GF what happened.

    Now-GF then *freaks out at the guy* and gives him shit for a month for “putting the woman in that position*

    Discuss, and score on a level 1-10, “how fucked up is that”?

    1. Don’t involve us in your personal life.

    2. Not enough information. Is the baby a mongoloid? Female? Otherwise defective?

    3. Bitches be crazy. We already know that.

    4. Zero. Guy got exactly what he deserved for leaving GF and ex-GF together unsupervised.

      1. Wait, I’m changing my vote. ^^^THIS

    5. I suppose it is worth mentioning that GF#1 was on pill, and as a couple they were ‘careful’ etc, aware of cycles. it was not an ‘accident of passion’. No particular ‘irresponsibility’ angle.

    6. Now-GF then *freaks out at the guy* and gives him shit for a month for “putting the woman in that position*

      On a level of 1-10 it would be whatever level needed to dump Now-GF.

      8.72 Dump with prejudice.

    7. What i am trying to tease out of this question is

      – there seem to be an implication that ‘regardless of circumstances, a man is responsible for causing any pregnancy’

      – despite this, there is an equal implication that, ‘a man has *no right to know if he’s gotten a woman pregnant*

      I think there’s some fairly odd gender-bias assumptions loaded into this scenario

      1. I think the assumption is YOU picked at least two “winners”.

        1. Both are long gone… and like sands in the hourglass… so are the days of our lives.

    8. Maybe if he spent less time looking at clothes he’d be better at judging character.

      1. For the record, i judged them both by other things entirely.

  97. Ooooh, Matt used a swear!

    Not shocked that Gavin did.

  98. I think The Burning Bed made husbandocide acceptable. Or not. I never actually saw that.

  99. So a divorce filing is an implied death threat?

    1. “Honey, you can whine about me taking your liberty and property, just be glad I don’t take your life, too!”

  100. Seriously, is McInnes (sp?) drunk?

    To tell for sure, I’d have to see him sober, to have a basis of comparison.

  101. Women are the new men? Am I gay now?

    1. Now?

      1. Obviously I’m in limbo until someone calls dibs.

        1. I don’t think either of us has gone big game yet. Although Warty is clearly unclaimable, and claiming Epi condemning your entire camp to incurable tertiary syph.

          Dibs on FoE.

          1. Unclaimable???

            1. It’s a nice way of saying unfuckable.

            2. We need a bogey man to discourage people from wanting to fall in the unfuckable category. Besides, inviting the embodiment of rape into our camp undermines the raison d’?tre for divvying up the commentariat.

  102. Jesus how tall is Kennedy?

    1. Well, has He answered you yet? I’m dying to know.

      1. He said she only interviews people on the street who are shorter then her.

  103. In case you guys feel like signing a petition:

  104. Tonight turned out to be much more entertaining than I’d thought it would be.

    1. Agree, things picked up a bit once they got past the panel-guests-shouting-over-each-other segment.

      1. There were some genuinely interesting guests!

    2. I cannot believe you doubted.

      1. Matt, you have broken my heart a million times with shows that seemed like such good ideas.

        1. a million times

          Women and their hyperbole, amirite?

        2. A million heartbreaks for a hundred shows!

          1. It’s because I hold you guys to such a high standard or something. Really ought to know better by now!

          2. Well, that was certainly less sexist.

          3. Sounds like a rock song…

      2. We were basing our pre-judgment off of previous precedent.

    3. It was a good show. Agree.

      1. Yeah, this episode was the tits.

  105. AH! Lou Dobbs war on viewers.

  106. Oh Kmele, how dare you suggest reality trumps the feelz of aggrieved feminists?

    Intentions mean everything!

  107. sexy aftershow?

    1. “The Live Stream Will Begin Soon”

      1. “The Live Stream will begin soon”

        1. Maybe they’re pulling my leg…

          1. Yanking my chain, busting my balls…

    2. never on fri. they are kind to us

    3. You only get an aftershow when the actual show was live. Which this was not. They all had winter jackets in their dressing rooms. That’s how long ago this was made.

      1. Yeah I guess Matt being in the comment section probably should have told me no sexy aftershow

        1. Awkward…like when I lost the bet on the instant replay.

    4. Not unless they show Matt lounging around his Brooklyn apartment.


    they do a new ‘aerial swoop’ into him now instead of him sitting at a desk.

  109. I had a student who was going through a nasty divorce. The story was revealed in bits and pieces. Basically, she married him because he was a rich lawyer and gave her a taste of luxury. He cheated on her; she cheated on him. She wanted a big chunk of his wealth because of the whole “best years of her life” thing. He said the money was his because he did all the work. I said it would probably be best just to settle it as quickly as possible and move on. I never understand why anyone thinks it’s a good idea to penalize men so heavily in divorces.

    If and when I get married, I plan on either doing it by common-law or getting a pre-nup.

    1. Common law won’t protect you. Pre-nups sometimes won’t either.

      1. Not if you have children.

        But we can’t go back to fault-based divorce because it would cause so much bitterness!

        1. And dead husbands apparently.

          1. “Can’t you realize we’re doing you men a *favor*? Unfair child-custody and property arrangements are a small price to pay for not dying of arsenic poisoning!”

        2. Basically only get married if she is as rich or richer then you.

          1. +1 ‘uge tract of land

        3. Fault-based divorce led to awful outcomes.

      2. It’s a lot harder for women to rape men in divorce court here in Quebec – where we have the civil/napoleonic code – than it seems in the USA.

        So. Come up here.

        1. Hmm. On the one hand, easy access to Moosehead Lager. On the other hand, no bang-bang toys.

          I’ll pass.

          Hey- do you know how they named Canada?

          C eh N eh D eh

          1. We used to say that in the school yard.

            1. The easy access to Moosehead lager part?

        2. How are booze prices in Quebec? I’m in Detroit, so I sometimes listen to Windsor radio. It’s gone up since then, but a while back (with CDN and USD at about par), it was $14 vs. $35 for an 18 pack of Labatte in bottles.

          1. Among the highest in Canada. I generally try and wait til I got to Vermont or other spots nearby to buy certain liquor.

    2. My brother-in-law’s brother is going through a nasty divorce. The wife – who I went to high school with – is being a total beyatch. Which is in line with her reputation.

      I warned him way back when. But she was hot so…dick came first.

    3. My brother and sister are both divorced, as are many others I have met. I’m just trying to avoid their mistakes.

      As a co-worker recently said to me, the reason divorce is so expensive is because it’s worth it.

      1. If you don’t think it’s possible to trust any woman enough to stay with you through thick and thin, then you shouldn’t get married. Why begin something with the assumption that it will probably fail?

        1. I wear a seat belt not because I expect to get in a car accident, but because I want to protect myself if it happens.

          About half of first marriages fail. The rate decreases with age, but it’s still common. It’s silly to me to ignore that risk.

    4. If and when I get married, I plan on either doing it by common-law or getting a pre-nup.

      Probably better off just skipping it altogether.

  110. OT: This is a post in response to an article analyzing the signing of rookie Jon Singleton to a 5 year/ 10 $mil deal by the Astros. This is so full of derp that I had to post it on here.

    ? Reply?Share ?
    James David Weinstock ? 11 hours ago
    On top of that, if the worst team in all of Major League Baseball can afford to throw $10,000,000.oo at an 8th Round Draft Choice, floundering in the minor leagues for 5 years, currently batting .267…I’d prefer the players’ salaries no longer be released to the public. It’s offensive. Ten million dollars could feed, house, and clothe a thousand homeless……this for a man who speaks very well, but chews his gum with his mouth flapping open, looking like a Neanderthal with a bat in his hand. I’d prefer we feed the homeless children first, and wait to find out if Singleton can successfully compete at the Major League level. MLB is a government sanctioned Monopoly, same as the United States Post Office. As such, the Government should step in and limit the profits that can be made. As our National Pastime, it’s incumbent upon the Federal & State Governments to return some of this extravagant booty to the community.

    1. The one person in the country that cheered the whoever-that-washed-up-ex-senator-was committee on ‘roids in baseball?

    2. “Extravagant Booty” would be a good name for a rock band.

      1. I was thinking more hip-hop video.

        1. I like the cut of your jib.

      2. Hip hop album? Ironic Hip Hop album by a white band?

    3. I’m no libertarian but even I want to bitchslap people who complain that pro sports is “run like a business”.

      1. bitchslap

        and this is why there are no libertarian bitches.

    4. Derptard realizes that said ‘booty’ comes from Derptard watching Ads on MLB games, right? and the only one ‘losing’ that money is like, Cheerios and shit for spending $100m on commericals?

      1. “and your metro-detroit ford dealers! Think Ford first!”

        But don’t forget the Viagra, Cialis (outdoor bathtubs), and Flo-something (piss-stopper).

        Every now and then, I almost stop watching baseball just because of the audience and the drugs they need advertised.

        1. What i’m saying is the moron seems to think the booty flows from the Government

          e.g. “i’t’s incumbent upon the Federal & State Governments to return some of this extravagant booty

          He doesnt seem to get that the money comes from the fucking people who make his brand of underarm deodorant because he watches so much baseball (a game i hate to watch on TV – though love going to the park)

    5. MLB is a government sanctioned Monopoly, same as the United States Post Office.

      I like that he can’t tell the difference between a private entity exempted from anti-trust laws and an organization which is actually run and paid for by the government.


      1. “I like that he can’t tell the difference between a private entity exempted from anti-trust laws and an organization which is actually run and paid for by the government.”

        Words mean what he wishes! It’s the lefty way!

  111. Friday Beer Review:

    St Arnold Pilsener- tastes more like a lager to me. Very little bitterness. Nice label and container art, though. Good price too.

    Goose Island Ten Hills Pale Ale- this one almost tastes like a pilsener. Still, of all the Goose Island varieties, I still prefer the Harvest Ale.

    I’ve tasted a lot of beer. Here is the beer monument I left behind in Chicago:


    1. St Arnold Pilsener- tastes more like a lager to me. Very little bitterness. Nice label and container art, though. Good price too

      Pilsners are a type of Lager. Two big divisions in beer are ale (top fermenting yeast) vs. lager (bottom fermenting yeast, lower temperature).

      I’ve tasted a lot of beer. Here is the beer monument I left behind in Chicago:


      Bourbon old-fashioned for me. Also some wine.

      1. The only liquor I can stomach is moonshine.

        That was the second beer monument. The first was a scale model of the Angkor Wat temple complex.

        1. Just giving you shit, because beer monument. When leaving the college house, I decided not to keep liquor bottles as trophies. Beer too.

    2. I drank two Yuenglings and some shitty rum mixed with Diet Dr. Pepper. Joy is vastly overrated.

      1. “Joy is vastly overrated.”

        That’s right up there with “einmal ist keinmal.”

  112. Guy starts dating woman. She has amazing tits. they start having sex; but the girl won’t take her shirt off!? guy confounded. has sex anyway. month passes. lots of sex. still no shirt come off. guy confounded, but hey, ‘chicks are nuts’. finally, chick takes shirt off. everything seems fine and guy is completely like WTF but who cares, right? finally just out of the blue girl decides to tell guy, ‘you know why i kept my shirt on, right’? and guy is completely oblivious, shrugs, unconcerned. she’s shocked. ‘you MUST have wanted to know’. guy relents. ‘sure, why did you want to keep your shirt on’? ‘because i had a boob job!’

    guy contemplates tits. they are indeed, *amazing tits*. world class. contemplates further. finally admits, ‘have to say, they do incredible work. they seem 100% real to me!’

    “you idiot! it was a *reduction*!”

    and that’s one to grow on.

    1. Try the veal

      1. actually, that’s a true story

        and she got really mad when i laughed my ass off

        1. interesting

        2. so wait…

          she kept her shirt on cuz they were bandaged up or something?

          I don’t understand the joke.

          note: i heard that boob reduction is one of the most if not the most common cosmetic surgery. Big boobs can cause back pain I guess.

          1. I knew a girl with giant boobs and no ass, and she was always losing her balance and falling down. Seriously.

          2. yes. scars vanishing.

            its not a joke really.

            Well, sort of. its the male assumption that no matter what, ‘boobs can only get bigger’! Like, it does not initially occur to the young male brain that a ‘job’ would entail ‘trimming’. Especially when you are dealing with a very large and perfectly formed set of them. you sort of go, “….. No…..”

        3. I think she was pulling your leg. Good joke on her part.

          1. No. I saw pictures.
            Never was a surgery so entirely successful.

            1. The best thing about reductions is the good places build a little internal shelf so they stay extra perky longer.

              1. Damn right!

              2. Shelf?

                Like internal scaring?

                1. There are some sciences you do not question.

                  You just go, ‘Science is awesome!’

  113. I think my favorite brewery overall is Big Sky from Montana. Their Cowboy Coffee porter was the best. Kona Brewing is pretty good too, especially the coconut one. I drank Finch’s Fascist Pig just for the name.

    1. I may still have to go Homer and pick Bell’s, although (everyone in Kalamazoo says this) Oberon isn’t as good as it used to be. Still, two-hearted is excellent.

      I’m still a sucker for fat tire, and when I homebrew, my usual recipe is a slight variation on Fat Tire.

      1. Bell’s dopplebock is probably my favorite American version. I had to stop buying it when it started going for over $16/6 pack.

        1. I got thrown out of Bell’s, and almost didn’t get married because of their Dopplebock.

          1. You can’t end the story there. Do tell.

    2. I miss the all the 3 Floyds brews. Robert the Bruce was my favorite.

      1. +1

        Three Floyds is amazing.

  114. Tales from the Derp:

    A co-worker orders some parts from abroad. They get stuck in customs because no one knows the procedures for imports. The storage fees now exceed the cost of the parts.

    1. Lie about your imports.

  115. “..I’d prefer the players’ salaries no longer be released to the public. It’s offensive. Ten million dollars could feed, house, and clothe a thousand homeless..”

    And not one of ’em can hit two-fifty!

  116. In which a Salon writer gets the basic facts about her article wrong, and then says this:

    So Charles Koch was someone who “considers himself above the law.” One cannot be too surprised by that, although traditionally even libertarians do pretend to respect contracts and property law. But perhaps Koch doesn’t consider a non-profit foundation to be subject to government interference which, in this case, is simply a requirement that he follow the rules governing such an institution.

    But you have to laugh at the clear upshot of this feud. You have the Grand Poobah of libertarianism ? a man who fetishises property rights and money ? whining that the industrialist financier of the Libertarian Party is a control freak. Why it’s almost as if he thought he had a right to behave that way simply because he had more money. Where do you suppose Koch ever got such an idea? And Charles Koch, the great libertarian avatar of personal freedom and individual rights insists on controlling everyone and everything around him. Imagine that.

    Libertarians love to talk about liberty and freedom. But even Murray Rothbard found out the hard way that in the end it’s completely relative to how much of it money can buy.

    I’d ask why they insist on writing about stuff they have no idea but it’s clear because they know how stupid their readers are.

    1. There can’t be much money in a business model based on libertarian baiting. So who is financing Salon? Hmmm. Wheels within wheels, plots within plots.

      1. There can’t be much money in a business model based on libertarian baiting. So who is financing Salon?


        On October 9, 2003, Michael O’Donnell, the chief executive and president of Salon Media Group, said he was leaving the company after seven years because it was “time for a change.” When he left, had accrued $83.6 million in losses since its inception, and its stock traded for 5? on the OTC Bulletin Board. David Talbot, Salon’s chairman and editor-in-chief at the time, became the new chief executive. Elizabeth “Betsy” Hambrecht, then Salon’s chief financial officer, became the president.

        That’s 11 years ago. They’ve had 0 profitable years since then, so they have to have lost about $120 million by now.

        There are basically rich progs bankrolling them, but since they’re progressives we shouldn’t talk about how much money they give to political propaganda.

        1. It’s a shame, because I remember Salon before then being a decent place that often had genuinely interesting writing. Now it’s a Buzzfeed run by wannabe Chekists.

          1. They published Hitch, which was about the only reason I ever read anything there.
            But didn’t Air America follow the same arc? Unpopular programs, funded by idiot lefties until it got too expensive?
            Gore got lucky and offed his ‘channel’ to Al-Jazeera, but that was likely in the hopes that Gore would make sure there were no ‘issues’; he was bought as the ward healer.
            The soft-left Obo-apologists stumble along, but if you want to make money, forget Al Frankin.

            1. They published Hitch, which was about the only reason I ever read anything there.

              Hitchens wrote for Slate. Greenwald wrote for Salon.

              1. Oops.
                I thought Salon published some of his stuff?

                1. I thought Salon published some of his stuff?

                  Maybe occasionally but the only regular places I saw were Slate and Vanity Fair.

            2. You could say the same for Slate. Used to be left leaning, but usually reasonable in looking at the other side.

              For instance, Fred Kaplan would write articles on the military that were ill-informed and enraging, but the boards tended to be generally even-handed and contained good discussion. Now it’s a fucking circus.

              1. What is the difference between Slate and Salon? In terms of what they actually are and quality.

                1. Slate hasn’t gone nearly as crazy.

                  Salon is vastly worse than Slate is. It’s not even close.

                  1. Okay good to know. But what was the original/current function of one and the other? Like is one a news site and the other something else?

                    1. Based on my experience, Slate seems to have more ‘regular columnists,’ such as Weigel, Yglesias, Prudence, and Marcotte, whereas Salon seems to have people contribute articles without really being on the payroll. I think Salon pays, if they pay at all at this point, for submissions, whereas Slate actually has more bloggers working for them.

                      Slate’s also much more successful and isn’t as psychotically left wing. For example, Salon’s the one that always publishes bizarre libertarian baiting articles and also published various pro-Communist articles like that one from Jesse Myerson.

        2. There are basically rich progs bankrolling them, but since they’re progressives we shouldn’t talk about how much money they give to political propaganda.

          This makes me wonder why one would even start a non-profit.

          Why not just start a for profit and only lose money.

          I imagine it would take far less paperwork and no IRS permit to exist.

          1. Tax write-offs, baby!

    2. Also, this.

      And the Kochs gave up on the idea of a third party and joined with the rest of the conservative movement to take over the Republican Party. They have been very successful, to say the least.

      It’s like something from Bizarro Der St?rmer.

    3. Tristero131 minutes ago@Bob RoddisI have met hundreds of libertarians and engaged hundreds more online.They are among the most aggressive men (I’ve yet to meet a female) on the planet.Pardon me if I have trouble believing adolescent narcissists are capable of non-aggression.

      Those idiots are othering me with their logic! Let’s kill the violent bastards!

      1. (I’ve yet to meet a female)

        This is awesome for two reasons:

        1. Anyone who says ‘female’ when ‘woman’ is more appropriate is always a total goon with no friends. It’s a scientific fact.

        2. There are a bunch of very visible libertarian woman. The only way you can fail to know that libertarians exist is if they are willfully ignoring them and purposefully pretending they aren’t there.

        In other words, the only way progs can fail to know about any libertarian women is if these colonialist prog oppressors deny women agency.

        What patriarchal pigs progressives turned out to be, huh?

        1. In other words, the only way progs can fail to know about any libertarian women is if these colonialist prog oppressors deny women agency.

          (I’ve yet to meet a female)

          Oh I’d say that’s pretty standard prog “you better stay the fuck on the plantation” social signaling. They do it in various ways to all of their various membership blocks. Spying on, informing on, denouncing, and pressuring each other seems to take up a lot of proggie social time when they are not actively engaged in one of their circle jerks.

        2. What patriarchal pigs progressives turned out to be

          One of my male academic colleagues had a sticker on his door during the 2008 election that read something like “Mrs. Palin, women did fight for the vote so a woman like you could become president.”

          Whatever you think of Palin, the irony and arrogance is amazing.

    4. Inferences within inferences swirling into speculation = totally meaningless

  117. Words are super scary

    Savage and Cox used a transphobic slur repeatedly…When this first started to occur, a trans student repeatedly asked them not to use the slur and tried to explain why it was offensive. Cox and Savage then proceeded to argue with the student, saying they had a right to use the word. Afterwards, Savage continued to use the slur despite knowing it was making students feel unsafe and both Cox and the IOP staff did nothing to stop him.

    The usage of this slur constitutes hate speech, which is frankly unacceptable. There is a difference between respecting open discourse and permitting hate speech?a distinction that the IOP does not seem to understand. Both Ana Marie Cox, as the moderator, and the IOP staff have a responsibility to stop hate speech in order to maintain a safe and accessible space for students where respectful open discourse can actually occur. They failed to do this. The IOP proudly asserts its commitment to diversity, inclusion, and civil discourse. In order to stay true to these values, we demand that the IOP publicly apologize for failing to stop the use of the transphobic slur during the seminar and assert a commitment to preventing the use of slurs and hate speech in the future.

    1. It cannot be stressed enough that the complainant has ‘it’ as their preferred pronoun. They *prefer* to be called it, so it is alright to call said person “it”.

      1. Your scarequotes are oppressive.

        1. I believe that’s known as #winning!

      2. ” They *prefer* to be called it, so it is alright to call said person “it”.”

        Was it a “She-it” or a “He-it”?

        he he he.

    2. The word “a” offends me. This constitutes hate speech and Reason has an obligation to ensure the word is eliminated from all it’s articles, in order to make me feel safe.

      1. The letter “E” offends me and further I’m offended by you being offended by the word “a”!

        1. But it’s in your nam. How in th fuck can you b offndd by a lttr in your own nam?

          1. It’s his lttr, h took it back, only h can us it.

            1. Thurbbrrth!

              1. (Jack Daniels)

                1. bird bird bird the bird is the word

                  What’s the price? Thirty Twice!

                2. bird bird bird the bird is the word

                  What’s the price? Thirty Twice!

            2. Stop othring hym.

      2. pft.. individual privilege, what a joke. Like individuals exist.

        Next thing you know you’ll be arguing that individuals are individuals.

    3. That was the word?


      How fucked up are you when you can’t even use the word to tell people what it is you’re bitching about.

      1. fucked up enough to choose ‘it’ as you pronoun?

      2. er That What was the word?

          1. +1 cheap alcoholic beverage(?)

          2. What’s the price?

            It’s oh so nice!

            What’s the reason?

            It’s belly pleasin’!

            1. Sorry, What’s the Price?

              Forty, twice!

        1. Tranny was the offending word.

      3. TRANNY

    4. Afterwards, Savage continued to use the slur despite knowing it was making students feel unsafe and both Cox and the IOP staff did nothing to stop him.


      Stop it with your words, they’re making me feel unsafe!

      “Obviously [he attempted] to threaten me and make me feel uncomfortable in that space, which was pretty successful,” the student, who was identified by solely “Hex” and whose preferred identifying pronoun is “it,” told the campus newspaper, The Chicago Maroon.

      This is a perfectly named newspaper given the situation.

      1. “‘Unsafe”

        Yeah, i know. apparently there’s some ‘meaning’ to that as well that we Cis-normal, non-gender-studies-graduate, hatemonger-penis-oppression-fomenters can’t possibly appreciate.

        From the actual thing =

        ” I want to apologize to the student(s) who were personally devastated by hate speech”

        first off, the person ‘apologizing’ wasn’t even fucking *there*. if you are curious how that person feels responsible? assume they have a dick, and they bear the historical weight of the Gender-oppressors in their testes. Thanks Clarence!

        Secondly- ‘devastated’?

        “it” complained. “it” was told its complaints were heard, considered, and rejected as bullshit. At that point, IT COULD FUCKING LEAVE. If IT was ‘devastated’, IT is a fucking idiot.

        1. I don’t understand what you’re missing here. The word took corporeal form and exploded near Hex, while Hex and Hex’s family and friends were tending to the wounded and/or enjoying his cousin’s wedding to a goat. Dan Savage was clearly seen with his thumb on the trigger and cackling maniacally.


          1. Using a pronoun reserved for things and animals to refer to oneself seems so much more demeaning than the word tranny.

            1. Yeah, calling Hex “it” makes me a little squeamish, which is likely the point. Something something gender binary privilege something something.

              Luckily with a three letter androgynous name I can route right around it.

      2. Unsafe means they’re offended, but they realize that people generally don’t care if you’re offended. You can’t so easily laugh off someone saying they feel like they’re in danger!

    5. Also, I feel like we should consider how hilariously incoherent left-wing ideas are.

      Try to follow this logic:

      1. Women, transgenders, black people and gays are just as capable as white men and can do anything white men can do.

      2. However, all of these groups are so emotionally fragile and incapable of controlling their feelings that we need to protect them from the hateful words that take them out of their safe spaces.

      3. Therefore, even though all of these groups are just as capable as white men, they need special government protections in order to be able to compete with white men.

      Now, as someone who actually believes that women, trans people, black people, and gays are just as capable as white men, I don’t think they need the government to hold their hands and make the bad words go away.

      I guess this makes me far less sexist, racist and transphobic than the progs who apparently believe all minorities and women are emotionally unstable mental cases.

    6. That does it. As long as there are progs, Peak Retard is unattainable.

    7. I’m still confused how tranny is a slur.

  118. Over there in the Kock thread:

    On The Road To Mandalay|6.7.14 @ 12:08AM|#
    “Must be quite a few gays on the site, since you libertarian ass holes support them with your bullshit ideology.”

    On The Road To Mandalay|6.7.14 @ 12:14AM|#
    “All every asshole in this country wants (and there are millions of them), is for the government to do whatever it is that tickles their fucking fancies at any given time. Most people can juggle about three to five contradictory ideas around in their pea brains, and believe in all three to five of them simultaneously. Libertarians are no different than anyone else.”

    Now LynchPin has offered to engage road-guy in an honest debate and road-guy, tired of being called on his constant bullshit, agreed. I’m sure road-guy fancies this a debate where LynchPin is *not* going to call him on his constant bullshit; IOWs, road-guy thinks an honest debate is like one with his mommy; all ‘aren’t you sweet?’ and stuff.
    I will make a point of checking in to see what might transpire.

    1. You done playing with the True Scotsman who was spouting off in the gay marriage thread already?

      1. Actually, he slipped and somehow miss-posted a response in the wrong thread; now I have a ‘crush on him’ for asking him if he’s lost. He may be a bit confused regarding his sexual preferences also.
        And interesting Friday evening; the Giants are leading.

        1. Actually, he slipped and somehow miss-posted a response in the wrong thread; now I have a ‘crush on him’ for asking him if he’s lost.

          He’s not a homophobe though! No way! His go to insult is just to claim you’re gay for him, which is in no way homophobic.

          1. I’m sure he can just poach Jonah Hill’s apology. People seemed to eat that up with a spoon.

            1. I loved that. Apparently you can call someone a faggot in public and it’s totally cool so long as you’re a nebulously left-wing movie star and apologize quickly enough.

              1. +1 Toxic Little Queen.

              2. In response I wanted to hurt him back and I said the most hurtful word that I can think of at that moment.

                I said a disgusting word that does not, at all, reflect how I feel about any group of people.

                The most hurtful thing I can do is compare him to teh gehz, but it doesn’t reflect how I feel about teh gehz!

                1. I don’t understand why willingness to perform fellatio is an insult. It’s not something I would do myself, but those that do are spreading peace and goodwill thoughout the planet.

        2. And Giants won.

    2. Those comments are beyond me at this point, can we make this about our favorite HK firearms? USC 45 FTW.

      1. Check with LynchPin. I have a feeling his offer was not spur-of-the-moment any more than road-guy has a clue as to what he’s going to find.

    3. “Road Guy” is absolutely nuts.

      Their M.O. is

      1 – first sentence = state basic facts that no one would dispute while saying this is something that no one knows or believes or understands. e.g. “Russia, which no one understands, was once an Empire” or, “Democrats and Republicans are both the same thing with different money sources”

      2 – then make some ‘deductive’ (non) conclusion that is completely vague and simple-minded and has little factual basis.

      3 – the second anyone says anything about their grandiose pronouncement, they declare that person an “Evil Shitbird Whose Anus Must Be Full Of Poop and why dont they Fist Fuck Their Own Hershey Highway and 1-800-EAT-SHIT”

      I think they are mentally ill. OR a very demented sockpuppet. I actually believe the former more than the latter now. Before I couldnt believe it because it is so repetitive (its ‘insults’ are copy-pasted, exact replicas)

      1. I think they are mentally ill. OR a very demented sockpuppet.


        1. No I think Mary is definitely not a sockpuppet, and is full-blown crazy. She does her thing *all over the internet*, not just for our benefit. She’s truly got problems.

      2. Oh, I thought people were talking about “Road To Mandalay”

        I think maybe you’re talking about the “anti-gay-marriage” person who thought, REAL LIBERTARIANS REJECT GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION INTO MARRIAGE AT ALL…and considers SSM somehow ‘rights expansion’

        1. Oh, I thought he was talking about Road To Mandalay too, and thought we’d driven another normal commenter insane.

          1. oh… looking back, i guess he is.

            What is the “Koch” thread?, because the one just below here aint got nothing

            Mandalay was spouting some extra crazy sauce on Matts Bowe-B post.

            1. Mandalay’s been off his rocker lately too. Just like Buttplug.


            2. Libertarianism 3.0; Koch And A Smile

              And for your viewing pleasure: On The Road To Mandalay’s first comment.

              1. “Road To Mandalay’s first comment.”

                “The War Corps”

                Yeah, the schtick was pretty much set out of the box.

                The first time it went crazy-towns was in January. Someone talked to ‘it’.

            3. Ok, I found it.

              This is the formula I mean-

              1 – “Money is Power”

              “MY POINT is…Big money is behind most political parties. Political parties and politicians need money!.”

              This is the genius insight part. Stating basic facts. Duh.

              2 – Skip straight to, FUCKING NUTS. DO NOT PASS “GO”

              ‘”All of our political parties are probably controlled by billionaires anyway. Naturally, this is heartily denied by the highly paid propagandists who work for these billionaires. The ideology can also be manipulated, so that one day it is this, and the next day that.

              Excellent article. Dr. Goebbels would be proud if he read it.”

              THEREFORE = Libertarians are Nazis’

              Lastly, anyone who goes, ‘Whut Bro?’?…Gets the Horns =

              “You should take all of my responses to your posts, print them out, fold, spindle and mutilate them, and then of course ram them up you butt until they reach your brain. Finally, I have diagnosed you with a case of Optical Rectumitis. This is where the Optic Nerve somehow connects with the Rectal Nerve causing a shitty out look on life. Have a good life you son of a bitch asshole pig fucker!”

              There you have a brief summary of EVERY SINGLE THREAD this thing has appeared in.

              1. my Dad was an Army Officer in World War II. Where were you shit for brains?

                Who knew military service was genetic.

                Was he always this unstable? I don’t remember paying much attention to him in the past.

                1. I don’t recall him being anything like this. I don’t think I ever agreed with him on anything, but he was never this fucked up.

                  1. “Francisco d’Anconia|6.7.14 @ 2:17AM|#

                    I don’t recall him being anything like this.”

                    1 for the record, I can assure you = every single post the person is tempting to slide into insanity. Its just that no one responds to it sometimes, and it smoulders out rather than explode.

                2. Speaking of crazy…

                  Features of both OTRTM and ‘Smack MacDougal’ have strong “Mary Signals”

                  1 – Mandalay is anal-obsessive. Mary.

                  2 – Smack is convinced he’s won some kind of logical battle with ‘libertarianism’ by claiming that by reducing things to a principle, that no contracts, property, or anything matter, and asking government to enfore them is basically Pro Government.

                  “Smack MacDougal|6.7.14 @ 12:26AM|#
                  Exactly. Granting rights and imposing duties is the anti-thesis of liberty and thus libertarianism.

                  This is pretty much “White Indian”. Because they take this idea of ‘liberty’ to assume everything is voluntary, and no government can possibly intervene to enforce contracts, etc.

                  Then again, this form of crazy is actually common to more than a few dim-bulbs out there. “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing”, etc. People in college argued like this. Superficial Wisdom FTW!

                  1. Smacks was very college freshman like, now that you mention it. He definitely argued topics he had a ppoor grasp onand used terms he had heard somewhere while being sure to stay on message and not actually engage in any arguments except to call his opponents stupid. He even attacked someone’s typo – a sign he’s not been involved in many intellectual debates.

                    1. I checked some of his older posts.

                      I think the “not mary” is certainly clear. He strikes me (from his economics posts) as the kind of person who’s had some book-learning and decided this has provided sufficient ammo to Explode All Extent Theories Of Everything.

                      I find people like this tedious in the extreme. I’m not interested in theory particularly, and find people who are obsessed with it terrible at negotiating Real World systems. See: Sheldon Richman & Foreign Policy.

  119. I saw a picture on youtube that looked too much like Gillespie, but drunk Casey Kasum is worth it:

    Countdown will begin this what the fuck is this

  120. Holy smokes.. have we really gone 500 comments without a single troll sighting?

    1. The troll are on the SSM and Kock sites; wander over if you want to play; the water is not deep.

      1. I had enough fun breaking Buttplug earlier today. Plus that guy seems boring.

        1. Love how he claims American exceptionalism is made up fairy tale cuz of the jesusfags.

          Never once considering where separation of church and state comes from and its role in the founding.

        2. I wasnt around for Mandalay’s playdate, that Smacky guy was quite the bore.

          “I just made a ridiculous statement to conceal my bigotry! Here’s non-sequiters to prove it’s true! Anyone who disagrees is an idiot and No True Libertarian!”

  121. Taliban militants killed and commanders hung during citizen-uprising in Kunar, with possible ‘outside’ help.…..ising-8185…..n-nuristan

    1. Good for ’em!

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