Tonight on The Independents: Charles Murray, Jay Thomas, Dan St. Germain, Michael Weiss, Jedediah Bila, and a VERY Stressed out Guest-Host Named Matt Welch!

Tonight's live episode of The Independents (9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, on Fox Business Network, with repeats three hours later) has all of the above and more, which I'd like to tell you about, but it turns out prepping to host a breaking-news show in Kennedy's absence can take up a lot of time! So please go watch us talk about the Kansas shooting, and Glenn Greenwald's Pulitzer, and Eastern Ukraine, and Stephen Colbert, and Charles Murray, and taxes, plus sexy after-show! Go to foxbusiness.com/independents at 10 p.m. sharp for that latter bit.

Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for video of past segments.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ah, < i The Independents, you're still alive, my old friend.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

They don't have to kill us Fist, for they have hurt us. And they wish to go on hurting us.

They will leave us as we left Dobbs, as we left Stossel, marooned for all eternity at the center of a second rate cable news channel. Buried alive, buried alive.

[Fist of Etiquette]

This reply is all I'd hoped for.

[Bam!]

You guys actually prep for The Independents? I find that hard to believe, Matt.

[Lord Humungus]

if you mean drinking until blind, then yes.

[Army of the 12 Monkeys]

That's how the audience prepares for it, at least.

[Suthenboy]

Yep, and I am prepared.

[Brett L]

I'm drinking some home-made, but I'm not blind yet. I may be watching the TV with one eye by the end of the night, however.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

but it turns out prepping to host a breaking-news show in Kennedy's absence can take up a lot of time!

So you're going to be introducing the show and moderating the discussions, Matt? I imagine that would be a lot of work since you're going to get more speaking time in one hour than you have in the entire 3 months this show has been on air.

[kibby]

To be fair, he did host that one night when Kennedy had the unspeakable eye infection. He got to talk that night!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Huh, must have been forgettable since I don't remember that. Maybe he should break out the Cowboy outfit. Or wear hoop earrings.

[kibby]

Noooooo, no more cowboy outfit! Earrings would get some giggles out of me, though.

I think he's noted in the past what a good idea that is on one of these threads, so maybe there will be hoop earrings tonight!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I'd donate money to Reason if he wore hoops tonight. Or maybe that bizarre shirt with the scarlet K that Kennedy wore that one time.

[GILMORE]

AND wear hoop earrings.

[Army of the 12 Monkeys]

Matt did surprisingly well, and ran an orderly ship that night. It was the Glenn Greenwald interview. I wonder if they'll have a Virtual Kennedy Presence this time around?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Oh. Good of you to post, Matt.

I had to putz around Reason like a derelict begging like a buffoon before finding the M.A.S.H. thread for TI.

Your tie better be Zegna tonight.

[C. Anacreon]

Hey -- I'm wearing a Zegna tie right now!
It got me thru my important meeting today.
I do like my Brioni ties best, but Zegna are probably next in line.

[Army of the 12 Monkeys]

Careful, he might misunderstand and buy a Brony tie.

[C. Anacreon]

I had to google Brony. Really wish I didn't know about that now.

[Army of the 12 Monkeys]

http://styleinprogess.blogspot.....r-for.html

[Heroic Mulatto]

Unless you work for Hasbro corporate, no. Just. No.

[Bobarian]

"I had to google Brony."

Yeah, sure. That's only slightly more believable than when Fist made the same claim.

You probably have an anatomically accessible StarBright costume on right now.

[sloopyinca]

Hahaha. It's Rainbow Brite, you dumb bastard.

[Fist of Etiquette]

To this day no one will explain to my satisfaction what My Little Pony is about.

[sloopyinca]

Buttsecks. It's about buttsecks.

[Cytotoxic]

You had to Google that?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

You're a man.

Brioni is classic. High end.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

FYI: My father, like HM's, was a tailor.

As a result, I own over 20 suits with a couple made of Zegna material.

They will last me a lifetime.

[SlV]

NOT ON HIATUS...YET

[Notorious G.K.C.]

AP: Two Christians and one Catholic killed in Kansas shooting spree

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/g.....shootings/

[Brett L]

Eh. As the shooting was apparently motivated, I'm not going to get too bent out of shape about it.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

The murders are worth shape-bending, but this story is an amusing digression about the AP seeming to distinguish between Christians and Catholics.

[Brett L]

Most Protestants and Catholics do, too. Although its a weird line to this Catholic, but while my generation were allowed to attend other denominations' services without dispensation, it was still not encouraged. Meanwhile my Methodist friends would go to church with the Lutheran kids if they stayed the night on Saturday night.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Maybe the byline was written by Jack Chick?

[C. Anacreon]

Jack Chick: Blood on the Tracts

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I wonder if the thinking was that everyone would know that Catholics are Christians, but that naming the two of the many, many Protestant denominations would leave many people clueless, so 'Christians.' Sort of like how every religious clergy in movies and television is Catholic because they can wear the collar (see, he's a religious leader!).

[Heroic Mulatto]

Sort of like how every religious clergy in movies and television is Catholic because they can wear the collar

He could be a vicar.

Jus' sayin'

[C. Anacreon]

Like the Dirty Vicar?

[GILMORE]

"Notorious G.K.C.|4.14.14 @ 8:28PM|#

AP: Two Christians and one Catholic killed in Kansas shooting spree"

The 'strange wording' seems to be either an error on the part of the author who genuinely doesn't know what the fuck Catholics "are" in relation to the rest of the People of the Book = OR, is perhaps themselves a hardcore proddy who thinks the Papists are all anti-Christians?

It seems to me something you'll get from the 'next generation' of journos for whom religion itself may be something of a bizarre oddity writ large.

I mean, if their 'general knowledge' of religion is as weak as it is in areas like, say, Economics - then we shouldn't be surprised they refer to say, "Baha'i" as an Indian sect or something.

[Lord Humungus]

I'm off to watch Charley Varrick - the Last of the Independents - with Walter Matthau and Joe Don Baker.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Jedidiah Bila?

I want her naked on a rock singing to our Darwinian liberal types!

[Brett L]

And you guys aren't covering the "moon" in Saturn's rings? Are you in the pay of the Fithp, too?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Can planets abort their moons?

[jesse.in.mb]

That's no moon!

[Brett L]

Thank you.

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm surprised there weren't several other people saying the same thing at the same time.

[kibby]

We've failed you.

[jesse.in.mb]

It's fine. I'm used to it.

*stoically wipes single tear from eye while remaining otherwise impassive*

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Bernie Sanders jumps on the Koch paranoid crazy drivel train.

All aboard! /cue Ozzy.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Bible on Way to Becoming State Book of Louisiana?

"Legislation that would make the Holy Bible the official state book of Louisiana cleared the House Committee on Municipal, Parochial and Cultural Affairs with a vote of 8-5 Thursday afternoon. It will now head to the full House of Representatives for consideration.

Rep. Thomas Carmody, R-Shreveport, originally filed a bill to declare a specific copy of the Bible, found in the Louisiana State Museum system, the official state book. But by the time he presented the proposal to the committee, he changed language in his legislation to make the generic King James version of the Bible, a text used worldwide, the official state book."

http://www.nola.com/politics/i.....state.html

[jesse.in.mb]

I wonder if he subscribes to the NIV is the Devil's handiwork thing that swept through my folks' church 8 years or so ago. Apparently the KJV is the ONLY acceptable translation in some circles, even though the translators said they did the best they could and knew others would come along with better translations later.

I wish I could remember the title of the book everyone read. It made reading the NIV sound like a soul-crushing sin.

[Irish]

Apparently the KJV is the ONLY acceptable translation in some circles, even though the translators said they did the best they could and knew others would come along with better translations later.

Jesse, you clearly don't understand. The King James Bible was the kind of Bible Jesus was taught out of, and is therefore sacred.

[paranoid android]

"Ay, that was grand, lad. Bloody Shakespearean. Wot? Don't you know who William Shakespeare is? He wrote the King James Bible!"

[Heroic Mulatto]

The hoops some people jump through to deny the fact they are too lazy to learn Aramaic, or Koine Greek, at least.

[Brett L]

Wasn't much written in Aramaic, IIRC. Although Martin Luther did relegate part of the Old Testament to its own section because there was no extant Hebrew version. Apparently the Septuagent wasn't authoritative for him.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I meant more that Aramaic was the language that Jesus spoke.

[Big Chief]

King James English was the language of Jesus and the Apostles.

Do they think that making the KJV Bible the official state book will protect them from future disasters?

[Suthenboy]

I love my state but I have to say, the gaggle of idiots in our legislature are especially bad. Not as bad as some, but worse than most.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"The Council of Europe's Committee of Ministers on March 19 repudiated an anti-circumcision resolution adopted last October by the body's Parliamentary Committee (PACE), eliciting praise from European Jews on Thursday night, when they were informed of the decision."

http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-Wo.....ion-348353

[Cytotoxic]

No respite for baby boys who will continue to be mutilated.

[Brett L]

Oh man, I don't know if these made it to the PM links, but this is gold. What should you do if a nuke went of in downtown DC (besides hope Congress is having an important vote)?

[Virginian]

Throw a party?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Let the journey for Lord Stanley's Cup begin - the toughest trophy in pro sports to win.

[Brett L]

They do give it out every year, right? If so, it aint any harder than any other Championship in any other league. Although, as a Blues fan, it would salve my soul if you were right. Then we'd have an excuse for shitting the bed in the playoffs every single fucking year.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

I would disagree with you here. By the time the team wins the cup, those guys are some beat up athletes.

[Palin's Buttplug]

No.

The Stanley Cup is annual and so therefore the quad annual World Cup is the most difficult to win = ya dumb Canuck!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Dipshit, I played, coached and researched soccer for over 30 years. I played elite level and even trained for a day with Brest in France and with Serie B players in Italy.

So if there's one game I know it's soccer.

It means nothing it happens every four years. And in any event I shoulda mentioned North American pro sports. Hockey is beyond grueling to win.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

PoliceOne observes the Lincoln assassination anniversary with an article about Officer John Frederick Parker.

Parker was a cop who was repeatedly caught in compromising positions - sleeping in a trolley car, being in a prostitute's room, abusing citizens - but still kept his job.

Then he was assigned to Lincoln's security detail.

He was supposed to guard the Presidential box at Ford's Theater but:

"Instead of maintaining his post, Parker drifted out front to watch the play. At one point he even left the theatre altogether to have drinks at the Star Saloon with Lincoln's footman and coachman.

"From there, Parker disappeared into the night."

http://www.policeone.com/patro.....n-s-death/

[Bam!]

Cops have always been incompetent. Nice to have something to count on in this ever-changing world.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Sadly, the Secret Service would later follow Parker's example rather than the one contemporaneously set by James West.

[Virginian]

As someone who's always been a believer in a Stanton conspiracy, I wouldn't be surprised if he was picked for the detail on purpose.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

So, Virginian, what's your state motto?

[Fist of Etiquette]

So is the blood moon tonight or tomorrow night?

[Brett L]

I believe the next 1:00am.

[GILMORE]

Got yer knives sharpened? Or chaining yourself to the bed again?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

You know who else orchestrated a night involving blood and knives of a lengthy variety?

[GILMORE]

Macbeth?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

+1 bloody dagger before me

[Bam!]

Have the xhamster link?

[kibby]

Ramsay?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Too tame.

[kibby]

Read the books, kid.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

You just want to give me ideas.

[kibby]

I have some ideas...

[Heroic Mulatto]

Jesus. You must be like the biggest Hell's Kitchen fan ever.

[Virginian]

Maybe I need to reread them, but I'm sure you know the answer to this question: Did Ramsey have a weird psycho girlfriend in the books?

[kibby]

He most certainly did not have a Myranda in the books. Every woman with a brain in the North knew to keep far, far away from him.

I'm hoping she's not long for this world.

[Virginian]

I just don't get the point of adding her.

[GILMORE]

Oh, I got it: Martin Sheen in Apocolypse Now?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Didn't he use an axe?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Kevin Spacey's character from Seven?

[GILMORE]

Mola Ram?

[Big Chief]

Sushi Chefs?

[Cytotoxic]

Waldor Frey?

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Tonight.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Can't I get a straight answer from any of you people?

[Tman]

Full blood moon tonight.

The lunar eclipse viewed from the Moon reveals why it'll turn red

[Wasteland Wanderer]

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/O.....2014Apr15T

Penumbral Eclipse Begins: 04:53:37 UT
Partial Eclipse Begins: 05:58:19 UT
Total Eclipse Begins: 07:06:47 UT
Greatest Eclipse: 07:45:40 UT
Total Eclipse Ends: 08:24:35 UT
Partial Eclipse Ends: 09:33:04 UT
Penumbral Eclipse Ends: 10:37:37 UT

UT = Universal Time = Greenwich Mean Time, which is +5 hours from the East Coast and +8 hours for the west coast.

So it begins at 8:53 PDT and 11:53 EDT on April 14 (today).

[Big Chief]

Who are you calling "you people"?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I found a twofer!

This "Gallery of Famous Intact [uncircumcized] Men" includes...Abraham Lincoln.

http://www.circumstitions.com/Famous1.html

[jesse.in.mb]

He also apparently had very nice thighs...

Billy Greene: "His thighs were as perfect as a human being could be."

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

INDEPENDENTS, ASSEMBLE!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Hs2AQwDgA

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Hoops.

[Fist of Etiquette]

So close.

[Bam!]

Lady with nice hair is wearing small hoops, so that's something.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Why are you asking us, Matt?

[Heroic Mulatto]

What does it have to do with the shooting?

Because Obama is a tool of the Illuminati, silly.

[Rev Match]

Welch is hosting? Good, I was getting tired of Kennedy's petty, proggish rants.

[Fist of Etiquette]

She said the same about you.

[Fist of Etiquette]

And hers is the best knotted.

[kibby]

Okay, Matt is adorkable. I'm a fan of tonight already.

[Bam!]

This is how Kennedy keeps her job: Matt guest hosts to remind the suits that it could be worse.

[Fist of Etiquette]

You know who else shouted heil Hitler?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

No Kennedy. No interruptions.

[Derpetologist]

Y'all ready for derp?

Lawrence O'Donell on how wonderful liberals are:

http://images.sodahead.com/pro.....55700.jpeg

Oh, btw- he's a socialist who wants to ban all guns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxKd5lpZwLY

[Suthenboy]

Wow. Just wow.

I don't think there is one single factual anything there

[Rufus J. Firefly]

What a jerkoff. Burning of the flag was made legendary in the 60s with the hippies and protestors, asshole.

[Fist of Etiquette]

So then it's not productive to find nutbags and holding them up as representative of one side or the other? That doesn't sound fun at all.

[Bam!]

Matt has spoken for 5 minutes now without getting interrupted. That's an Independents record.

[Suthenboy]

Who else is shocked that the SPLC would make political hay out of the KC shooting? I am also shocked that a socialist's actions would be used to tar the right. Shocked, I tell you.

[Heroic Mulatto]

If you're a socialist but only for one country, you automatically become part of the "right", for some reason.

[Virginian]

Oh I already had to deal with this shit today. "Right wing socialism" is an oxymoron. There is no possible way for state control of private enterprise to be right wing.

Except in the mind of a progtard.

[Fist of Etiquette]

INTERRUPT HIM, WELCH. QUICK! HE'S MAKING POINTS.

[Rev Match]

Welch is not versed in the dark ways of the Kennedy.

[Derpetologist]

Today on Derpbook:

How many roads, power lines, plumbing, foreign invaders, people living past age 50, electrical grids, infrastructure, safe food/water/air, etc. was there before 1913?

95% of the products used in this country, were made in this country. There is no comparison between near 3rd world turn of the century, pre mass transit and commerce America, and the America of today. If you really hated government so much, you wouldn't be using the internet, which was exists solely because the government facilitated it.

[Virginian]

How many roads, power lines, plumbing, foreign invaders, people living past age 50, electrical grids, infrastructure, safe food/water/air, etc. was there before 1913?

I like how they used electrical power twice. Hell, throw infrastructure in there for a triple use of electrical grids, and a double use of both roads and plumbing. Plus a nice use of etc. in lieu of more examples.

Oh, and who knew that everyone died of bad food before 50 prior to Woodrow Wilson saving us all.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Foreign invaders.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Don't forget the FRC attack by the guy who used the SPLC's information to help him.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The host is tossing this black guy softball questions.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I think every prog that complains about the "violent, hateful rhetoric" of the right needs to be challenged about what they want to do to respond to it.

It would be a good way to separate the true fascists from those that just want to score cheap political points.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

They should be asked about Bill Ayers, etc.

[kibby]

Listen to all this uninterrupted speaking from Kmele!!

[Bobarian]

Again, WTF is a "Hate Crime"? All violent crime is hateful.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

And what difference would it make to tact on a hate crime charge to a triple homicide?

[Heroic Mulatto]

I beat her because I love her.

[jesse.in.mb]

As my roommate frequently jokes:

"He beats because he loves too much, he cheats because he loves too little"

[Heroic Mulatto]

He beats off because he loves too much

[jesse.in.mb]

Filthy! Abuse is funny, Onanism is not!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Check your gay, easy to find booty-calls, privilege.

[jesse.in.mb]

I was going to get Ukrainian food and drinks with a German tonight, prior to it becoming a booty-call, but he bailed (I suppose that's a date, isn't it?). Trying to find a replacement.

I'd be curious to compare the flakiness of the gay and straight booty-call culture.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I imagine less fickle since two dudes probably want to get off more than a girl.

[jesse.in.mb]

Yeah, but there's also a shotgun approach involved where everyone tosses out messages to a few people and tries to see who is both interested and available.

[Rev Match]

Again, WTF is a "Hate Crime"? All violent crime is hateful.

I have always thought that calling something a "hate" crime makes it amount to a "thought" crime. A motive can be used to prove someone had incentive but should never be used to require a more severe punishment. IOW: Assault is assault is assault, and that's it.

[Virginian]

http://www.amazonsupply.com/

Oh my.....

[Derpetologist]

More Derpbook highlights

The infrastructure of the Internet was largely developed and subsidized by the federal government well before it was released to the public. The federal government was largely responsible for MOST of the technology we enjoy today, including the processors that run that computer you are typing on.

....

How are you not understanding that the wars, the tax cuts, and Medicare Part D were NOT included in the debt under Bush. Therefore the TRUE debt under Bush was well over 15 trillion.

[Virginian]

The infrastructure of the Internet was largely developed and subsidized by the federal government well before it was released to the public. The federal government was largely responsible for MOST of the technology we enjoy today, including the processors that run that computer you are typing on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4bftQ4xxFc

[Derpetologist]

Yeah, it took me about 2 minutes to debunk that claim. No response yet.

[Bam!]

The only time a woman should wear a mans dress shirt is when she's getting out of his bed.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Well, she is sitting next to Kmele.

Jus' sayin'

[jesse.in.mb]

I like the regular Fox contributor talking about "THE MEDIA"

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

This segment was actually pretty great. And Kmele probably does better street interviews than Kennedy.

[Bam!]

I may have misjudged Matt.

[Rev Match]

I've been enjoying the civility.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

It's just nice that everyone gets to talk and Matt doesn't interrupt. Maybe he should switch chairs with Kennedy.

[Rev Match]

I sense a regime change.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Holy fucking shit, not Eddie LeBec.

[Rev Match]

...limited gov't, pro 2A...

Those things are obviously racist.

[Derpetologist]

Buddy at work lost his house in fire this year. Because of the insurance he got, he owes $10,000 in taxes this year.

He's taking it a lot better than I would.

[Heroic Mulatto]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT PHAZYME FUCKING ROUNDHOUSE KICKS MY FUCKING GAS IN ITS FUCKING FACE!

PHAZYME!

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'm going to say what everyone is thinking. Kennedy is in a sanitarium right now.

[Bam!]

They invited The Cowardly Lion back on.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I'm halfway to having that guy's beard. I should probably shave tomorrow.

[kibby]

"Should probably"? Should most definitely do so. Immediately upon waking up.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

MAKE ME.

[kibby]

I will skip my classes tomorrow, drive to your damn house & make sure you do. Don't test me, kid.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Is that threat a psychological ploy to get me not to shave?

[kibby]

No, please don't make me miss class, I have a presentation to give.

Just shave.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

As you wish.

[jesse.in.mb]

As you wish.

Have you seen The Princess Bride? Because you might want to be careful with tossing that phrase around...

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I barely remember that movie. I was thinking more Darth Vader

Given that Kibby was practically squealing during Ramsay's scenes last night I think she'd be into that.

[kibby]

This conversation got weird while I wasn't looking.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I meant you'd be into me Force-choking an arrogant Imperial officer until you wanted me to release him.

Call it a happy midway point between me being me and Ramsay.

[kibby]

....Maybe. We'll discuss this later tonight.

[jesse.in.mb]

This conversation got weird while I wasn't looking.

That happens fairly frequently, no?

[jesse.in.mb]

Is Ramsay a thing from GoT?

I'm more than a year behind.

[kibby]

Ramsay is the BEST THING from GoT! Even if they're sort of ruining his characterization.

[Derpetologist]

But how close are you to this?

http://platedlizard.blogspot.c.....-time.html

[Derpetologist]

But how close are you to this?

http://platedlizard.blogspot.c.....-time.html

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Not even.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I listen to Eddie Lebec on Sirius.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I would rather listen to Andy Moog.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Mooooooog!

[Fist of Etiquette]

You know, I always had a feeling at least one of the ST:TNG writers was a Boston Bruins fan. Worf's old man was named Mogh (Moog) and his rival was Duras (Peter Douris).

[Fist of Etiquette]

So every room in Russia does look like that.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Well put, Jay.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Shut the fuck up, Peter King. You fucking piece of shit.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Good, good, let the hate flow through you...

[Hyperion]

Well, he is accurate about the POS thing.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

That's terrorist fundraiser Peter King. He needs to be called that every time his name is brought up.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Indeed. A terrorist fundraising fucking piece of shit who should die from brain cancer.

[jesse.in.mb]

You're ruining the shunning! Quick, turn your back on it and pretend it isn't there.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yeah, they don't take out journalists. [cough]Michael Hastings[cough]

[kibby]

This comment made me really sad.

[Bobarian]

Quaaludes!?! Nobody has Ludes anymore.

[SlV]

I first made that observation in early 1982.

[Hyperion]

Anyone remember Placidyl? Holy shit. I remember one day... I was maybe 18 or 19 and one of my cousins told me he had 2 of these things and had hid them in my grandparents freezer in the garage. So, after lunch we went out and found them. Little green plastic looking capsules, looked sort of like an Advil gel cap.

So we took one of these each and smoked a little weed and and drank a few beers. Whoa...

[SlV]

Too much sedation, not enough euphoria. Fun Fact: The late SC Chief Justice Rehnquist was "hooked" on placidyls.
A real addiction where if he didn't step-down detox he would've died from seizures.

[Hyperion]

Too much sedation, not enough euphoria.

That's where the weed and beer combo comes in.

[Hyperion]

And yes, the addiction potential with sedatives like that is a very strong deterrent from taking them, unless you really don't value your life.

I don't take any drugs at all, except for alcohol, and haven't for more than 20 years. My favorite drug that I have ever tried, and it was a script, is Ativan. I won't touch it ever again. I would probably try weed again, even though I never really liked it, but at least I don't find it addictive either.

[SweatingGin]

OpenSSL is a library, not a protocol.

/pedant

[Fist of Etiquette]

Unless Thomas has changed his tune since the last time I listened to him, I doubt he's really onboard with what Snowden did.

[Bam!]

Oooo, jazz.

[Heroic Mulatto]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT PHAZYME IS FUCKING BACK TO FUCKING KNEE MY GAS IN ITS GROIN AND THEN SLEEP WITH ITS WIFE!

PHAZYME!

[jesse.in.mb]

I want the Burma Shave version...

[Rufus J. Firefly]

http://www.amazon.com/Human-Ac.....0060929642

Really enjoyed Murray's book if anything because I tend to make plots like did for historical figures.

[Rev Match]

"Smart" investment commercial shows wind turbines. I think they leave a lot to be desired as an investment firm.

[Big Chief]

Or to be smart.

[Bobarian]

Chelsea Manning didn't filter anything that was released. Snowden appears to have filtered for individual protection and mostly to counter NSA lies.

Big difference in my book.

[Derpetologist]

Trending on Derpbook:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjbNFEXCMAAeE7U.png

[Virginian]

That's the purest form of derp: Reddit Derp.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Like I'm going to listen to Ned Stark's bastard.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

But he's gone through the training montage!

[Bobarian]

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Am I the only one who doesn't necessarily like politeness in journalism.

Thanks for being here?

Bah.

[Bam!]

Someone actually invested in the Olympics? Dumbass.

[Hyperion]

Fuck, I missed the entire show tonight. So, no Kennedy and Matt did well?

Is Derbz on yet?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Less confrontational.

[Big Chief]

Are you in India and confused by the time zone?

[Hyperion]

Umm, why would I have been in India?

Anyway, no.

[Big Chief]

You commented at 9:28EDT that you'd missed the whole show and asked if Dobbs was on. So it looked like you were a half hour off.

India time is offset a half hour from everywhere else in the world (that I'm aware of anyway) hence the India reference.

[kibby]

I enjoy Matt's mock-angry pointing at the camera. Can he replace Kennedy altogether?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Oh, she's trembling in her shoes now!

[Bam!]

Why does arthritis cause everything to go black and white?

[Bam!]

So The Independents wasn't canceled but Kennedy was firedgiven a leave of absence? The pieces are falling into place.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

She's recovering from "exhaustion."

[Heroic Mulatto]

"Hysteria" actually. And she's using the olde timey cure.

[SlV]

A DC powered Edison vibrating dildo where she can't be more than a few blocks from the nearest dynamo?

[Hyperion]

Christ Bejeebus. I miss one show and people are calling for Matt to replace Kennedy?

WTF is going on in libertopia?

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 14 April 2014

"Matt Welch, in the role of Capt. Edward J Smith"-Edition

- Matt: Temporary Ringleader of the Independents Circus, Anf?hrer Matt tries his best (and First) to operate within the realm of 'acceptable', knowing that millions... no, let's be realistic - some people - will be forced to stare at him for almost an hour. For the sake of 'saying something positive' = the purplish-blue tie is an improvement from the Cyan thing; we actually like Lilac the best (and the tie may in fact be close to that, but for the crappyness of my TV's color-spectrum); we'd think this would be a bomb-ass combo with the blue/lighter Navy thing he interviewed Mike Lee in - instead, we have a 'less than failure' result. Gentleman's C.

- Kmele: Keeps breaking out the wide-spectrum plaids. We like this best when the rest of the panel goes Monochrome, which we've noted in the past; however when Matt is wearing Starbust-Wrapper shades, we look to Kmele to bring some Fashion Gravitas and tone it down a bit. We want to send Kmele some love, and ask him if possible to loan Matt a sportcoat and offer a few tips, if only to ensure the show gets a few more months in before its inevitable cancellation.

- St Germain: I hated your Jazz-House Music thing. That said: The Beard Wins the Attire Award this evening. Its lustrous amber waves sing a song of the bounty of "America". I salute you (chugs whiskey)

Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus

Thank You

[GILMORE]

I suppose I mis-identified 'Madras'.

25 Hail Marys for me

[GILMORE]

Also, "Sure Thing" was the 1 song by St Germain I actually sorta liked.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Good Christ, I'm glad Nicole is off being a bridezilla and is not watching this.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Putin made a homerun!

[MJGreen]

Checkmate!

[Fist of Etiquette]

I've learned to selectively tune Foster out.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I'm sure Stalin was a 'nice guy' too.

[Bobarian]

Touch-Hockey-Chess for the win??!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

What'd I miss?

Where's Kennedy?

[Fist of Etiquette]

She and Stossel eloped.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

She digs the womb broom.

[Hyperion]

You must have been in India, with me.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Huh?

[Hyperion]

I can't explain it either. Just read up thread, I don't know why I was in India, but apparently I was.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

K

I'll go to India too.

[Hyperion]

When you arrive, I just hope that you can figure out why we are there.

[Fist of Etiquette]

WHAT HAPPENS IF THE VENDING MACHINE FALLS OVER ON A KID? WHAT THEN?

[Bobarian]

Proof that MJ kills?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Capitalism kills. Or automation.

[Hyperion]

Let's be honest, MJ, capitalism, and automation all kill. Imagine the carnage if all 3 are combined!?

[Army of the 12 Monkeys]

I hope that glass is 3 feet thick and bulletproof. Otherwise, I anticipate a lot of "fallen-over" vending machines in the near future.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Carney looks like Tom Kazerynski (sp?) in that pic.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Tim.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Kazurinsky.

[Hyperion]

Opey Cunningham.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

The real outrage is that a pissant like Carney married such a hot woman.

[kibby]

I'm sure she's an absolute peach to live with.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Hmmm, given that his job is to scowl and passively aggressive answer hostile questions I'm guessing he does get a lot of practice at home.

[Hyperion]

I can just hear him when around his friends.

"No, she's not a bitch! No, I'm not her bitch!"

[Army of the 12 Monkeys]

There is a great photo(shop) of their kitchen in the article. A Polynesian island somewhere is starving now.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

God damn it, my stream keeps freezing. I blame Kennedy. She's trying to sabotage my enjoyment of Matt hosting over her.

[jesse.in.mb]

God damn it, my stream keeps freezing.

Saw palmetto might help with that...

[SlV]

Ha! The TRUTH comes out. Matt Welch really is a dirty commie!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Was that supposed to be hidden?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Seen it.

[GILMORE]

Halfway through =

Matt, you're hanging in there. Initially, there was some 'awkward' as you were struggling to READ.AND.ENUNCIATE., but a few easy jokes in, and you're getting your swing on. Keep it up, camper. Your wife is going to tear you to pieces tonight.

[Big Chief]

One of my absolute favorite souvenirs ever was a deck of cards I bought in Shanghai with every card a different propaganda poster with it's own Chinglish translation. Absolutely fantastic!

[Rev Match]

Maybe they'll give the show to Matt and Kmele (And Bila? Yes, of course, Bila.) Then they can keep Kennedy chained up off camera, isolated and angry, and bring her out snarling when everyone's favorite little commie comes on.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Shit My Curmudgeon Says

[GILMORE]

Staple Sisters

more people should own "Do it Again".

[Heroic Mulatto]

Oh shit! Going for Murray hates women right out the gate!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Murray.

Lucid.

Humorous.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Existentialism. Bah.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Murray can't take this questioner seriously. Not wearing a picnic blanket as a shirt like he is.

[Heroic Mulatto]

FUCK YOU! Madras is the bomb!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Oh, you kids and your ironic apparel.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Nothing ironic about wearing Madras near Easter-time.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Murray's been de-Kaffir-nated.

[Bam!]

That was short.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You get someone like Murray on for three minutes? Just three minutes?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Firing Line for the ADHD crowd.

[GILMORE]

I think he's more or less right; at least by his own definition.

Charles Murray is of the older school of American Intellectualism where 'simplifying Big Things' was still considered *classy*.

[GILMORE]

I mean 'right' about there being no women in the upper-tiers of historic philosophical thought.

I think there's probably a million decent reasons why that's the case (including active dissuasion by Teh Patriarchy); but it is the case (at least until the late 20th century, at which point the question is no longer about 'tradition' in any case)

[Heroic Mulatto]

The question is just what are "the upper-tiers of historic philosophical thought"? And how do you operationalize such a construct? Murray confused making a list of his favorite thinkers with a valid methodology in which statistical inference can be used to make generalizations.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

What do you think of his work in general?

[Heroic Mulatto]

I think he has slowly drifted from being a libertarian in ideology to a technocrat; this is most clear in Coming Apart. I'm not convinced that we need to alter our concept of equality of opportunity in any way based upon his arguments.

[GILMORE]

Heroic Mulatto|4.14.14 @ 9:51PM|#

The question is just what are "the upper-tiers of historic philosophical thought"?

What made it into print, and was preserved throughout history to be learned from, and which inspired follow-up for many generations and never fully *written off*?

[Heroic Mulatto]

I feel you. A counter-argument could be made though that that's still just a popularity contest. I have no problem with ranking historical figures, and I enjoy such books. However, when historians and the like do this, they are upfront about the fact that the choices were ultimately subjective, based upon their expert knowledge, however. In Human Accomplishment, Murray quantified his qualitative judgements and attempted a statistical analysis, in which he made some bold claims. Again, the qualitative ranking, I had no problem with and even agreed with some of it, but his analysis ranks low in external and construct validity, imo for reasons mentioned up-thread.

[GILMORE]

Sure = you don't like his methodological pretentions.

But, to use a phrase of my dads: "No matter how you slice it, its still Balony"

There are myriad reasons *why* women never made it into the philosophy 'canon'. Those could be debated. One could make an argument that there *should* be X, Y, or Z included for more reasons. But it doesn't change the fact that, say, 'Great Books of the Western World'...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....tern_World

...don't have no chicks in it.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Well, again, Adler was Adler.

[GILMORE]

You seem to object with their shtick based on the fact that there was a "right answer" they missed?

I actually think Arendt would be a major and important inclusion in the post-war environment; the rest, I fail to see what case would be made in context.

[GILMORE]

Obviously, if no women were really 'in the game' until ~the 19th century, it obviously presents a barrier for meeting those terms, just given the shorter time frame to have given for consideration of their work.

Who *might* make the list if you were to widen the definition?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Arendt, de Beauvoir, Noddings, Butler, Spivak...just off the top of my head.

[GILMORE]

I don't have any reason to disagree about at least the first 2 (the only ones I can recall having been "forced to read because 'They Were Important'"; and of those 2, would strongly agree about Arendt)
...
...actually now that I look back into it, I find I did read Judith Butler, possibly others - again, because 'I had to'.

Funny that I completely forgot them, maybe?

When I think of 'Eichman in Jeruselem' or other books of hers, I forget that it was a female author.

With the others, its the only thing I remember.

[jesse.in.mb]

You didn't have to read Kate Chopin's The Awakening?

Every time I try to reference it I have to google "that novel where the woman commits suicide by walking into the ocean"

[GILMORE]

"jesse.in.mb|4.14.14 @ 10:26PM|#

You didn't have to read Kate Chopin's The Awakening?

Every time I try to reference it I have to google "that novel where the woman commits suicide by walking into the ocean"

LOL

No, yes of course= its part of high-school English curricula as the 'default acceptable Feminist book' kids should read and all come to the same conclusions about.

Just as 'Things Fall Apart' and/or "I know why the caged bird sings" are the default books American kids read to feel 'less racist'

(I suppose hipper schools will do the Autobiography of Malcolm X as well - mine did)

We were talking about "Academic Philosophers".

[GILMORE]

Funny as well = the only name that kept buzzing in my head when the question of "Women in philosophy" came up was *Helene Cixous*

Because reading her stuff was more painful than having (2!) wisdom teeth pulled *sans Novocain*.

[jesse.in.mb]

Hypatia of Alexandria!

She's a skeptic saint now what with being pulled off her chariot and skinned by Christians after proving heliocentrism was workable or something.

[GILMORE]

" pulled off her chariot and skinned by Christians"

This is why there no Great Female Philosophers

[jesse.in.mb]

Rush Limbaugh still exists?

[Hyperion]

Where have you been today, Jesse? Shreeky was just comparing him to Nazi KKK Jew killers.

[jesse.in.mb]

Eh, I pg dwn much faster when I see PB.

[Hyperion]

Not a bad idea.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I'd watch if he played Chuck Knobbler again. Otherwise I'll just wait for Craig Ferguson's monologue on the occasion I'm up that late.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I think they're both assholes.

[Derpetologist]

Most of the A-list comedians of the last 50 years have been very liberal. The rest were apolitical.

[kibby]

I don't understand the point of late night shows in the modern age.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Haven't watched the in years.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

them

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

If it weren't for the conservative outrage to gawk at would the media pick up on the just as vitriolic outrage on the Left that they hired a white guy instead of a woman or person of color?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I doubt the network wants to be surprised.

[Bam!]

An idiotic post on Vox? You don't say.

[Rev Match]

As usual...Kmele, FTW.

[GILMORE]

Bonus:

- Jay: Someone needs to take a screenshot in order for CSI to fully decode the number of fashion-crimes Jay throws together here. It is clearly a Welch-like conscious disdain for convention itself; and as such, cannot be measured by any conventional measures. I give the guy a Bonus Prize for reminding us of Homer Simpson's famous dictum:

"Son: You tried, and you failed. The Lesson Here? NEVER TRY."

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Somaliaz!

[Heroic Mulatto]

Kmele interviewed Chyna?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Schoolz. Roadz. Poliz.

There you have it.

Proggieville.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

What's with the dorky guy among all those high-powered businesswomen?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Welcome to the Hotel New York...

[Derpetologist]

MIDDLE CLASS PAYS MOAR TAXES HURR DURR HERP DERP!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yeah, the middle class is paying all the taxes.

[Derpetologist]

Care to guess which country has the most progressive tax system?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....the-least/

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I always liked this site to put it in perspective.

[Fist of Etiquette]

This guy sleeps in on Election Day.

[kibby]

Oh hot damn, Kmele. Just wear those all the time.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Kmele wears his sun glasses at night.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

That last kid got it.

The older guy less so.

'Price to pay for our society?'

Fucking tool.

[Derpetologist]

It sure is fascinating how the cost of society has been increasing exponentially for 100 years.

[kibby]

You have to spend money to make money or something.

Or just print more money!

[Bobarian]

What do I get for my taxes?

The warm embrace of my overlords?

[Hyperion]

A government big enough to harass you constantly and have it's paid thugs beat you senseless and throw you in a cage if you complain about it. What more can you ask for?

[Suthenboy]

WTF is wrong with those people? Fuck them. Roads? Really? Pay for society?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'd be satisfied if paying for civilization on fewer and less complex forms.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

What did you learn?

Nothing, these are New Yorkers...they elected de Blasio.

[Suthenboy]

I am more than a little drunk and completely missed that. You are dead-right.

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[Hyperion]

DERBZ!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Good night, Matt.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'm going to go ahead and say it. Welch crushed it.

[Bam!]

I'd give that episode an above average rating. Matt didn't try to ape Kennedy's style like he did last time he guest hosted. The discussions flowed nicely and the topics weren't TMZ-worthy.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

What's the deal with that story in Nevada with BLM and Bundy.

Is Reid really that evil?

[Hyperion]

Is Reid really that evil?

Dude, he sleeps hangs upside down at night.

[Bobarian]

Is water that wet?

[Irish]

If a nuclear bomb exploded in downtown Washington, D.C., what should you do?

I'd get a shitload of whiskey and have a party.

[Suthenboy]

It is funny how that seems to be a worst case scenario for some, and a best case one for others. I am in the latter camp.

My guess, if DC evaporated tomorrow the country would barely notice at first. After a short time the economy would take off like a rocket and we would make the progress in 10 years that would have taken 100 otherwise.

[Derpetologist]

If a nuclear bomb went off in DC, thousands of politicians and bureaucrats would die.

There'd probably be a downside though.

[Derpetologist]

If a nuclear bomb went off in DC, thousands of politicians and bureaucrats would die.

There'd probably be a downside though.

[Hyperion]

There might be a downside if you live in NOVA or Balmer. But outside of that, I can't really think of anything.

[jesse.in.mb]

Ugh, but imagine how people will react...

There'll be chaos, not because it's necessary but because people are retarded, followed by an "interim government" composed of strongman assholes. Then there'll be resistance to strongman assholes who seem oddly reluctant to give up power.

Next thing you know we're living in a YAF dystopia novel.

[Hyperion]

Well, there will at least be very long lines at the gas station, and no milk or bread in the grocery store for a while.

Next thing you know we're living in a YAF dystopia novel

That's how it always ends. Only if we survive four consecutive blood moons can we finally win.

[GILMORE]

Well done, Matt!

That said: Kmele should take the helm next time. Just to shoulder the burden.

It reminds me of when I used to bar-back, and bitched about the bartenders making all the cash while I performed the most menial and lower-back paining tasks. Finally they gave me 1 shift. It was just as fucking hard, if not harder. I also made mistakes.

[Bobarian]

Tips tend to be good for tending.

[GILMORE]

If you're good at it. If you suck and its your first time, you make as much as you did bar-backing and you feel like an asshole.

I got better. But I didn't do it for very long. I wasn't ready for *the Show*.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Definitely better to get one's feet wet on slow shifts or at a relaxed joint before trying to just jump into the fray. That's what I did. Started at a small bar and worked my way up to nightclub bartending, which was nuts but also very good money.

[Heroic Mulatto]

So, you're the dude I'm hiring when I open my tiki bar.

[Suthenboy]

I have to say, good job Matt.

[kibby]

I knew being the resident Welch fangirl would pay off eventually! Excellent job tonight, Matt!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

The time he got wasted with Michael Moore?

[Fist of Etiquette]

HOLY SHIT GoT SPOILERS.

[jesse.in.mb]

SPOILER ALERT KMELE!

[Irish]

Nicolas Maduro loves Nicolas Maduro so fucking much.

[Suthenboy]

It is hard to believe that someone hasn't drilled a hole in that guy yet.

[Fist of Etiquette]

You just lost a customer, The Independents.

[Fist of Etiquette]

(Even though I watched it last night.)

[Francisco d'Anconia]

If you haven't watched it by Monday night, ya gotta expect the spoiler.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Lenny is shot.

The kids go back through the wardrobe.

They're crippled in a sled accident.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Christian reaches the Celestial City.

The alcoholic lawyer volunteers to be decapitated so the girl he loves can escape with another guy.

Wow, that last one sure sounds pretty pathetic when you say it out loud.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Gamera defeats the aliens and saves the children.

The dead woman's children realize that her brief fling with a photographer helped in her self-actualization.

He killed his mother and then dresses up like her when killing other people.

[Army of the 12 Monkeys]

Soylent Green is people.

It's PEOPLE !!!

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Darth Vader is Princess Leia's father.

Spock (or maybe Kirk) dies.

The horse in the Godfather doesn't survive.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"During the past five congressional campaigns (2006-14) Koch money went to President Obama, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, Mark Pryor, Chuck Schumer and other members of Congress."

http://www.truthrevolt.org//ne.....hers-money

[Fist of Etiquette]

I literally hate this aftershow more than anything I ever hated in my life.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You hate an actual debate about the NOLA charter school experiment and school choice?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I hate it, I hate everything that came before it and everything that came after it. (I also typed that out before they got to that part.)

[Suthenboy]

I have been mauled by wild animals, shot, stabbed, bitten by a water moccasin, stunk by hornets and scorpions, nearly drown, had my ass whipped once or twice, I have been flat broke, in a foreign jail, ....woke up in a latin american cat-house in sub-optimal conditions.....I even had my Jr. HS crush tell me that I had NO CHANCE.

I can honestly say that I don't hate the after show more than anything I ever hated in my life.

[Suthenboy]

I would also add that I have had family members and people I love die.

[kibby]

Okay, before the aftershow ends & everybody here abandons ship...Serious Man & I have been kicking around an idea for a communist monopoly game: Maonopoly*. Because why has that NOT been invented yet? Or has it & I suck at internet searching?

*I'm totally trademarking this, by the by.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Awesome. The objective is to what, redistribute all your money? Equality?

[kibby]

I'm not sure yet. Forced equality, maybe -- & a disgusting amount of government intervention with every attempt to do anything.

[Bobarian]

It should also involve a lot of dead Chinese?

[kibby]

They'll be the centerpiece picture on the board, naturally.

[Hyperion]

The ultimate goal is to kill the entire population, for the children.

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm confused. How do you have a game with just "community chest" and "go to Siberian gulag"?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Each square is marked either "go directly to jail" or "shop for bread, lose 10 turns."

[kibby]

I was really excited about the gulag part! The way to get out should be some obscenely difficult process, too.

[jesse.in.mb]

You are shot by a communist functionary who covets your wife in Rural China. Your parents are billed for the cost of the bullet. Wait 100 turns to reincarnate, except you can't because we live in a materialist universe.

[Bam!]

Isn't that basically what The Landlord's Game, the precursor to Monopoly, was?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I think that's Georgeism, not Marxism.

[Bam!]

Reading the Straight Dope on it:

The story goes that Magie intended her game to be a teaching tool about the injustices of capitalism. She was a fan of the theories of political economist Henry George, who thought landlords were parasites and advocated a "single tax" on them to replace all other taxes.

You're thinking: what an exciting premise for a board game. Depends on how it's handled. If the idea was that the players, beaten down by exorbitant rents, were supposed to rise up and feed their evil landlord's intestines to him with a fork, this might indeed make for a diverting family game night.

But that's not what happened. Instead, the player who accumulated the most money won. How does this teach us about the dark side of capitalism? Search me. All we can suppose is that in 1904 Magie's political thinking, or anyway her approach to agitprop, wasn't fully formed. Perhaps she thought referring to money paid for food, shelter, etc, as "indirect taxation" rather than "expenses" would impart profound lessons in economics.

I guess Murray was right: Women are bad philosophers.

[Bam!]

As the capitalist frenzy of the 20s continued unabated, Magie undoubtedly thought: my plan isn't working. She gave it one more try. In 1932 she unveiled a combo game called The Landlord's Game plus Prosperity. Prosperity was played on the same board but with modified rules: taxes, jail, and monopoly pricing were now eliminated; land rent was paid to the public treasury; once enough treasury cash accumulated, private utilities were condemned and placed in public ownership. Most importantly, players could vote to switch from Landlord to Prosperity rules in midgame. Now those chafing under the capitalist yoke (i.e., losing) could wise up, go socialist, and take over.

You can guess how well that worked. In our clinical trials, my assistant Fierra quickly figured out how to game the system and make money off railroad nationalization.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Hmm, a socialism one might be interesting where you would purchase properties with the other players' money.

[SweatingGin]

Throw in some Mises problem of economic calculation under socialism for the economic geek.

Purchase Acquire the means of production, and since they no longer trade, there isn't a price on them, so you can't know if they should be used for a particular purpose or another.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Thinking about it, I think that gameplay would be you purchase property with your own money, but rents that you would have to pay for would come from other players and go to the bank and you'd only have to pay when you landed on your own.

The banker, chance, or CC would be in charge of developing property, there could be eminent domain cards forcing players to swap properties to only one player's advantage. There are definitely possibilities.

[kibby]

I really like this!!

[Hyperion]

So, everyone has exactly the same amount of money when starting the game and no one can ever earn more money that anyone else, because social justice, right? So you just keep playing the game forever and when you win more money, it just gets redistributed evenly among the other players, and the game never ends. Sounds like fun.

[kibby]

But if you pulled a certain card & became a government official, you'd have way more money, rights, all that jazz than anybody else.

[Hyperion]

It must be like the 'Get out of Serfdom Free Card'.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

The board is a list of countries/regions throughout the world that communism must conquer.

North Korea is Baltic Avenue and America is Boardwalk. But because commies fragment worse than the People's Liberation Front of Judea, you and your rivals end up fighting each other. If you land on a country your opponent as conquered you must lose Proletariat Manpower Points to purges. The more industrialized the country becomes, the more authoritarian it is able to be and the severity of the purges increases.

[kibby]

Geez, you've thought about this far more than me. I was mostly excited about communist propaganda as gameplay pieces.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Well I am the serious one. And the game pieces would be: the hammer & sickle, an AK, a commissar hat, a food stamp booklet, a little red book, and an East German Trabant.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Instead of houses and hotels you could have cinderblock apartments and dachas.

[Bam!]

Found one.

A Polish research institute has developed a board game to teach young people about life under Communism. In the game, which is inspired by Monopoly, players must wait in endless lines at stores for scarce goods. For added realism, they have to put up with people cutting in line and products running out -- unless they have a "colleague in the government" card.

[kibby]

Link doesn't work but DAMMIT.

[Bam!]

Actual link.

[Hyperion]

The gubmint of Murika will be very unhappy with them for spreading these lies about the joys of progressivism, socialism, communism.

[jesse.in.mb]

AH, I remember that coming out and being so upset that it was impossible to get.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Add me to the chorus of voices that loved Matt tonight. I wonder if Kennedy knows who Wally Pipp is?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Hear me now and believe me later, they should bring Moynihan back.

[GILMORE]

Too many Men.

Needs more Redhead.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Yes.

[Derpetologist]

? Why does derp suddenly appear..every time- they are near!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSqcGAJpuYI

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"The Chicago Sun-Times has temporarily eliminated story commenting on its website until it can develop a system that will "foster a productive discussion rather than an embarrassing mishmash of fringe ranting and ill-informed, shrill bomb-throwing," managing editor Craig Newman announced"

http://www.poynter.org/latest-.....N4.twitter

[Hyperion]

Sounds like they are striving hard to become irrelevant dinosaurs.

[Tman]

Also, is it really that hard to police the Chicago Sun Times comment section?

[Hyperion]

"foster a productive discussion rather than an embarrassing mishmash of fringe ranting and ill-informed, shrill bomb-throwing," managing editor Craig Newman announced"

IOW, we will allow your comment as long as you agree with our propaganda.

[Tman]

There shall only be ill-informed shrill bomb throwing at targets of which we approve.

[Hyperion]

+1 round of screeching harpy explosives.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

So, CNN.

[GILMORE]

"an embarrassing mishmash of fringe ranting and ill-informed, shrill bomb-throwing"

We know about modern liberal journalism, yes, but what about the comments?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Good night to one and all.

Pats on backs all 'round.

HM, I have a comment about the link you sent regarding Canada's language model. I'll hit it up tomorrow as I'm bushed and heading to bed.

[Hyperion]

Boa noite.

[Hyperion]

Damnit, how can I see the blood moon?, it's cloudy! How can the prophecies come true if I can't even see the damn blood moon! Fucking clouds are always ruining shit.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Maybe you can't see the blood moon, but it can see you.

Sweet dreams.

[William of Purple]

Got clouds? No problem. The event will be broadcast live on the web by the Coca-Cola Science Center at Columbus State University in Georgia.

[Hyperion]

Yeah! Thanks to technology, the apocalypse can continue!

[Hyperion]

Yeah! Thanks to technology, the apocalypse can continue!

[Hyperion]

Fucking squirrels!

[Hyperion]

If no one sees the blood moon, can the apocalypse still happen?

[jesse.in.mb]

"blood moon" makes me think feminist neo-pagan high holiday more than apocalypse.

[Hyperion]

You don't get it! There will be 4 of them. 4! Do you know what that means... well???

[Big Chief]

That people in Cleveland will have a shot to see at least one of them through a break in the clouds?

[jesse.in.mb]

Do you know what that means... well???

They all started taking Seasonique at the same time?

Repunctuate your life!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Comedian Greg Proops: Reagan destroyed the idealism of the 70s

The comedian said he was 10 years old at the start of the decade, which promised women's liberation, the Equal Rights Amendment, racial equality, and the assertion of rights by various oppressed groups.

"Along with it being a depressing time full of corruption and hideous machinations by the U.S. government, it was also an amazing time for individual rights and the awareness that everyone had their own identity, and that we all deserve to be at the same f*cking table, and then that sh*t went away when Reagan became president, I'll be very f*cking honest about it," Proops said.

[snip]

"I've said it before on this show because people always ask me, and young people who didn't grow up during the Reagan administration ? Reagan really did his best to put the f*cking brakes on that ? the gay liberation movement, the women's liberation movement, the Latinos, Asians, black people ? everyone you can think of."

"There were so many things that were going to happen that didn't happen because right-wing white guys took back over again, and that carried on and carries on until today," he said.

Yeah, if it weren't Reagan we'd all be living in groovy communes jamming it up to the latest technological marvel: the 10-track player.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Kill the white people, but buy my record first

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtuYWlh6fJ4

[Tman]

It's amazing to think that there are still people so disillusioned to believe that 70's were some utopian fantasy.

I remember the gas lines. People would lose their fucking minds if they were that bad today.

[Winston]

Left-wing Brits have similar delusions about 1970s Britain as well.

[Hyperion]

We had a lot more freedom in the 70's than we do now. So, in a way, it was better than today. Well, better, even with formica and wood paneling in every room, and every appliance in either avocado or harvest gold, and shag carpet... and Pintos, Novas, Gremlins, and Pacers. No internet, only 3 different brands of beer that all tasted like horse piss, but still, utopian fantasy compared to today.

[Big Chief]

Don't forget Billy Beer. Tasting like horse piss would be a step up for Billy Beer.

[Tman]

My Dad jokes about the 14% APR he paid on the place we grew up in Boston he bought back then. FOURTEEN PERCENT.

Jesus.

I agree with you about the freedoms though. Carter was terrible about pretty much everything else, but he did make some great calls for free markets. Yet another reason why our current situation is worse than back then I suppose. But that ain't Reagan's fault.

[Winston]

We had a lot more freedom in the 70's than we do now.

Thing is Proops isn't complaining about that but that Reagan was (supposedly) anti-government.

[C. Anacreon]

I'm a little surprised and disappointed. Proops was an acquaintance back in the early 90's (we got stoned together on occasion) and, though a lefty, he wasn't overtly so like many comedians. He was more of a Seinfeld observational humor guy.

[Cytotoxic]

We had a lot more freedom in the 70's than we do now.

I call bullshit. The draft was only just ended in the early 70s and there was still criminal prohibition of homosexuality. High inflation and high marginal income taxes and price controls all worked against economic freedom. We are much better off than back then.

[SlV]

The 1970s were a kind of peak freedom.The downsides were the economy and the fashion sense but it was the most tolerant and libertine of decades.

[Cytotoxic]

The decade that saw Nixon declare the War on Drugs was a freedom peak?

[Hyperion]

Nixon declared his WOD then, but it was practically unheard of for cops to smash down peoples doors in the middle of the night, shoot pets, terrorizing people with militarized weapons, etc.. The 70s seem like libertopia compared to today.

[Cytotoxic]

Unless you got drafted, wanted to buy or sell gas, wanted to exercise the 2A, wanted to trade with other nations etc etc what a bunch of nostalgia-goggle BS. Cops were still bad back then granted the access to new toys made it worse.

[Hyperion]

wanted to exercise the 2A

I had guns my entire life since I was 7 years old. I owned lots of them and bought them all of the time during the 70s. I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I remember concealed carry laws being abysmal in the 70s. But that's notional.

[SlV]

You could use drugs openly in select public locations throughout the country.

You could get pulled over for a traffic stop and cops wouldn't care about an ashtray full of roaches or a full prescription pill bottle with half the label torn off.

People drove around with a souvenir fake Florida license plate that said "ARRIVE STONED" on the front of their car. You could follow The Dead from city to city tripping in a VW Bus with a "Reality Is For People Who Can't Handle Drugs" bumpersticker and never once get "hassled by the Man".

The drinking age was 18 and seldom enforced. There was a much higher likelihood then than now your parents or a friends' parents were "swingers".

Gays were "out" in Jackson, MS, Jacksonville, Fla. and Birmingham, Alabama. Though a lot of 'em would move to ATL..

Jail bait did full frontal in movies and magazines...

2014 is Puritan in comparison

Race relations were much better

[Cytotoxic]

Race relations were much better

The riots were just expressions of love I guess.

2014 is Puritan in comparison

The internet exists, so this is wrong. We may not be libertine in a straight sex'n'drugs way but we are more interesting thanks to the internet. HandR for instance.

All that other stuff is valid but doesn't outweigh the dismal state of the 2A in the 70s or the lack of free trade.

[SlV]

In the 1970s a 15 yo could buy a bong, rolling papers and cigarettes perfectly legally. 18 for alcohol but you could buy beer at any sporting event, restaurant or most bars. You might get carded at a crowded nightclub...if you were a guy.

[SlV]

Good girls did it and condoms were some obscure relic from the 1950s and before.

[Irish]

I like that they applaud the utopian 'spirit' of the '70s.

Clearly what matters about the 70's was the psychodrama playing out in the minds of rich white people, and not the actual fact of 10% unemployment and 10% inflation.

Fat, drunk, and with a misery index of 20 is no way to go through life, son.

[Winston]

You Know Who else applauds utopian spirit in ignorance of actual living condition?

[GILMORE]

'Reagan really did his best to put the f*cking brakes on that"

You really have to be pretty fucking stupid to invest an entire change in the direction of national culture to a single fucking politician.

Put another way = he's completely deluded about what the real state of America was prior to Reagan for him to believe that there was any major inflection/change of direction.

it was only because he himself was in his 'early adulthood' in the 1980s, and started to actually inform himself about the reality of how the world worked, and (naturally) become extremely cynical and despondent about it.

I say this having been a teen during the 1980s in NYC. There was no cultural change = there was More Money in the 1980s because Reagan stopped the fucking nightmare of inflation. That changed things in some ways. But gays weren't somehow More in the closet in the 1980s than the 1970s. Nor was there more/less racial 'harmony' due to the goddamn president.

why the left or right fight about Reagan I think has to do with angst over 'the culture war'. The left want to keep fighting dragons and need to invent more enemies to do so.

[Winston]

The leftist narrative is that Big Government was perfectly fine from 1933 until Reagan came along and since then we have had a laissez-faire dystopia so we need King Barack to kill it.

[GILMORE]

I think you are right about this.

They are aware that democrats dominated Domestic Policy until *carter*... then his utter failures resulted in 'Reagan' (who they now blame).

The fact is probably that Clinton undid the traditional leftist-Democratic regime more than anyone else, but they are loath to admit it.

[Irish]

It doesn't even make sense for this fight about Reagan to occur, though. There are plenty of Reagan-era issues to argue about, from Iran Contra to his alleged stalling on AIDS.

What there isn't is a rational claim that Reagan made America worse than it was in the 1970's. The '70s were hell. The '70s are basically remembered for a massive New York black out, rioting, mass inflation, double digit unemployment, the Iranian hostage crisis, the Munich Olympics, gas lines, Watergate, Soviets invading Afghanistan...there are virtually no historically significant events in the '70s that were good.

There is no rational argument that America was worse off after Reagan than before Reagan. None.

[Winston]

Don't forget the "Decade of Greed" as if the 1970s or 1990s were ages of selflessness or altruism.

[Big Chief]

Even though the 70s were being called the "Me Decade" during the 70s!!

[Irish]

Let me put this in perspective: I have a book about machines from Medieval times. In the tradition of all hack academics, the writer of the book inexplicably starts talking about stuff way outside of her expertise. In this case, she bizarrely starts ranting in the introduction about how we will never experience economic growth ever again, and the United States is going to into eternal and unbounded decline.

This book was written in 1977.

That's the type of optimistic 1970's climate that Greg Proops is yearning to return us to.

[Hyperion]

We were just a couple years from running out of oil also, remember that?

[BuSab Agent]

Don't forget the impending Ice Age.

[Hyperion]

That's only going to happen now since they are screaming out warming and deniers. Irony seems to be a god with a sense of humor.

[BuSab Agent]

The thing is an Ice Age is actually a hell of a lot scarier than warmer winters and longer growing seasons. And yes the weather gods ALWAYS fuck with people. Like I know it is snowing right this minute because I spent yesterday planting my garden. Also as an added bonus I can't see the blood moon. Fuck you small gods of weather!

[Hyperion]

he thing is an Ice Age is actually a hell of a lot scarier than warmer winters

Absolutely, but there is no money to be made on that idea.

[Hyperion]

The only problem I have with Reagan was his doubling down on Nixons's WOD. He really started a terrible shredding of civil rights with that crap.

[GILMORE]

Yep.

[Cytotoxic]

That, and excessive military spending (Star Wars). I still wish we could have him back.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

By the way, are there still funny comedians today? The improv comics can be funny, but I mean the standups.

The last time I went to a comedy club it was a guy who was funny on TV but onstage was largely making unfunny Bush jokes...and Obama was President.

Nowadays when I see comedians it's on radio or TV game shows or roundtable political discussions, and they are no funnier than I am.

[Winston]

A comedian turns out to be a statist fuck. Shocking I know.

[Tman]

Some of the comments of course are A PLUS EXCELLENT!

-

turk ? 6 hours ago
As bad as GW was, Reagan was the undisputed worst president in history. He started the disparity of wealth movement that has destroyed the American dream. There was never a more despicable excuse for a human being. If that vile turd had died a couple decades sooner, this country would be in a much better place.

How do I join this wealth disparity movement? Is there like, a newsletter or something?

[Hyperion]

How do I join this wealth disparity movement? Is there like, a newsletter or something?

LOL

[Cytotoxic]

We're already in it.

HEIL HYDRA KOCHTOPUS

[Winston]

Yes because America never had wealth disparity before and I'm sure in 1980 there was no income disparity.

See this is the perfect example of the delusions about the 1970s spouted by Reagan-haters.

[Tman]

It's so funny to read these comments in light of the bit earlier about the Sun Times getting rid of comments on their page.

Please never let these go. How else do you test the depth of water?

Look at these beauties!

lardheppus ? 8 hours ago
After a third of a century of supply side economics,we should all be wealthy. After all, we were told a rising tide lifts all boats. Instead we got the biggest economic collapse since the great depression. Thank you,Ronnie.

[Irish]

They honestly forget that the entire decade of the '70s existed. Like, the entire idea that there may have been mass unemployment and high inflation from '76 to '80 is totally alien to them.

This is what group think does to your mind. It is so noxious that it manages to erase entire decades from your memory.

[Winston]

It's because they have their narrative that Reagan (and Thatcher) fucked everything up and in order to do so they have to pretend that the 1970s weren't fucked up.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

This has to be trolling, right?

xxdr_zombiexx ? 9 hours ago
I'm 53. I find myself wishing for the ability to return to the 70s.

No computers. No smartphones, no ATM's, none of the high-speed, dog-eat-dog misery with which I see the 21st Century. I have christened the 2st Century as the "Age of Wrong" because NOTHING correct happens in the 21st.

it's all wrong. Pay your fee: who cares if you get what you paid for? it's all about the fee, not the service.

I'm ready to return to simpler times.

It has 10 up votes.

TommyTwoWheels ? 9 hours ago
Reagan put the brakes on our country's development starting with ordering the solar panels taken off of the White house,

Words fail.

[Hyperion]

I'm 53. I find myself wishing for the ability to return to the 70s

It seems reasonable until you read the reasons why he wants that. Nothing about the NSA, impending police state, erosion of our 2nd amendment rights, WOD, or anything else that could be considered bad.

No, this genius wants to return to the 70s to avoid the internet and go back to rotary phones and party lines.

[Cytotoxic]

The police state was as bad then. The FBI was infiltrating radical groups to turn them violent. 2A rights are MUCH better now than back then. Trade was less free.

[Hyperion]

2A rights are MUCH better now than back then

WTF? 2A rights are better now, after the Brady act and all the other restrictions on 2A rights since then? That doesn't make any sense at all.

[Cytotoxic]

Concealed carry barely existed in any states. Look it up. You may as well be arguing that the sky is purple.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Agree with Cyto. Heller, MacDonald, and 3D printing are going to make the coming years all but impossible for gun-grabbers.

They have thoroughly lost on this issue on a national level.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Things were a lot shittier before the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act.

Few states allowed open or concealed carry, sales on ammunition were recorded, you couldn't ship ammo through the mail, there were no protections for gun owners who were traveling with their firearms, and you couldn't buy long guns interstate.

Since then, the two biggest shit laws passed were the assault weapons ban, the closing of the full-auto registry, and background checks. The AWB is gone, background checks suck but can be done in half an hour or so, and firearm ownership is now a recognized constitutionally protected right thanks to DC v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago. Don't know if we'll be able to get the full-auto registry reopened, but then a lot of people didn't think Illinois would ever have concealed carry, let alone shall issue.

[SlV]

In the 1970s you could buy a Mac 10 that fired from an open bolt. Your Mom could modify it to fire full auto. I believe ownership is grandfathered in, but not transfer...

[Tejicano]

Ownership AND transfer of the early open bolt semi-autos - like the MAC-10 and Tec-9 - are both still legal. They are simply rare as hen's teeth and most owners hold on to them.

RKBA today, compared to the 70's, is a bit of a mixed bag. Limited & expensive full-auto and 922(r) are still a reality but CCW across the board, the wide-open availability of EBR's, and Heller & McDonald (+ a lot more people having more understanding and appreciation of their gun rights) has really changed the debate.

[OneOut]

"2A rights are MUCH better now than back then. "

Every truck in Texas had a gun rack in the rear window with a long gun of some kind in it.

Try that today and see if you get arrested first or robbed first.

[Winston]

it's all wrong. Pay your fee: who cares if you get what you paid for? it's all about the fee, not the service.

Can someone translate this into English?

[Hyperion]

Maybe he had Comcast?

[Warrren]

Goddammit that asshole took away my chance at being a gay, liberated, Latina!

Now I'm stuck as a middle-aged cis-male.

[Winston]

So I see Shackford is on board with Bathroom Equality. What other prog kulturkampf issues will Reason now get on board with in the delusion that the proggies mean well and that this will stop them from being mean to libertarians? I mean Nick did claim in 2008 that Obama's election would end racism so the stupidity of Reason's editors has no end.

[Cytotoxic]

WSJ neocon Bret Stephens is VERY butthurt over Rand Paul's success; writes puerile shitty 'column' over it.

No, what we need as the Republican nominee in 2016 is a man of more glaring disqualifications. Someone so nakedly unacceptable to the overwhelming majority of sane Americans that only the GOP could think of nominating him.

This man is Rand Paul, the junior senator from a state with eight electoral votes. The man who, as of this writing, has three years worth of experience in elected office. Barack Obama had more political experience when he ran for president. That's worked out well.

Grasp harder Stephens.

http://online.wsj.com/news/art.....49788.html

[Cytotoxic]

WSJ editorial board fascists recruit a Inner Conservative Party member to lie about Snowden.

How hackneyed is it? A taste: One criticism that has been frequently leveled at the activities of the security services is that their decision-making and operational planning is done in secret. This is one of the most ludicrous criticisms of all. The reason that these activities are kept secret is not because our agencies are embarrassed about them or want, intrinsically, to keep them from the public, but because they need to be kept from the terrorists, foreign agents and proliferators who pose the threat

http://online.wsj.com/news/art.....58008.html

I would like to see Reason write more 'fuck you and your lies' response posts to the above. Tuccille is just the man for the job methinks.

[Hyperion]

The commentariat on that site are horrendously misinformed and ignorant, for the most part. Good gawd, what a shit article and even shittier bunch of comments.

[Winston]

The commentariat on that pretty much every site are horrendously misinformed and ignorant, for the most part.

[Cytotoxic]

Many of the comments I saw were calling out the bullshit but there was also a bunch of snotty jingoistic crap. Bezos please hurry up and make the WP into my new substitute for the War Street Journal.

[Hyperion]

I saw a few comments weakly calling out he bullshit, but they were always followed up by statements like, 'Rand is the best candidate, but I could support Christie or Bush'. WTF? Rand is great, but I could support Hilter or Mao if they joined the GOP.

[Cytotoxic]

Yeah that mystified me too. I guess they're just ignorant that most of Christie's 'success' is vapor.

[PM]

The moment Reason fell out of love with Rand Paul

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Sunday said that America "can't invite the whole world" to enter the country, no matter how much some immigrants may love the U.S.

...

"When you say they're doing an act of love, and you don't follow it up with 'but we have to control the border,' people think, 'Well, because they're doing this for kind reasons,' that the whole world can come to our country," he said.

[Cytotoxic]

I still love him. He's pandering to the tards of the TP movement and his approach to immigration is still very sane. So much so it still offends the tards.

[PM]

You sound like the progtards with Obama on gay marriage circa 2008. Just sayin'.

[Cytotoxic]

You sound like grasping. Just Siayan.

[PM]

It's not a messiah complex if he's really the messiah! Herpa derp derp.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

The progtards were right. Obama was always for gay marriage but couldn't say so for political reasons. Not sure what your point is?

[PM]

The progtards were right. Obama was always for gay marriage but couldn't say so for political reasons. Not sure what your point is?

Obama hasn't actually passed any policy on gay marriage. So even if you're right, best case scenario you get to hero-worship a politician who claims to agree with you without actually doing anything about it. Just like the progtards. And you're proud of this? Good luck with that.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Why are you being such a dick?

Rand Paul is the closest thing to a libertarian candidate in my lifetime. Is he perfect? No. No one is, except for me. And anyone agreeing with me 100% of the time has no chance of getting elected.

Immigration is so far down the list of topics I'm concerned about that I'm quite happy it's one of our few areas of disagreement. There's about 1000 other issues that we do agree on and that are significantly more important.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Closest thing to a libertarian candidate, with a chance of winning, I should say.

[PM]

I'd vote for Rand Paul in a second (of course he's never going to get the nomination). It's just rather amusing to see people who have called me everything but white for saying a lot less rush to his defense on the issue.

[PM]

Gary Johnson, for example, took more heat here than Rand Paul, and he's a lot better on the issue from a libertarian perspective.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

There's a difference between jumping your shit and jumping his. You don't need to get elected. He does. I think he gets slack on immigration because people realize he cannot get nominated with a libertarian stance on it, so he hedges.

Yes, I long for the day when a libertarian can get elected in this country on a full up libertarian platform. We ain't there yet. Baby steps.

[PM]

There's a difference between jumping your shit and jumping his. You don't need to get elected.

Principles don't count come election time. Got it.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

So I guess you'd prefer another Bush?

Or better yet, you can continue to be a martyr and vote for someone with NO chance of winning because he's not the 100% solution. Great idea.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I'll accept a 90% solution.

[Winston]

Pretty sure the commentariat would support a Seven-Per-Cent Solution

[Calidissident]

This isn't anything new from Paul, and Reason has been pretty praiseful IMO of Paul's moderate stance on the issue. It's the anti-amnesty people here who seem to have a habit of ignoring the other part of Paul's position on this issue.

[PM]

It's certainly not new - his stance on immigration used to actually be a lot more like his dad's until the libertarians fell in love with him and he moderated it severely. It's a far cry from "if you want to come to the United States and work we'll find room for you" though. I'm not sure which "other part" of Paul's position you're referring to, because that's about as specific as he's gotten about it.

[Cytotoxic]

Speaking in flawless English, a member of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant said in an online video that after fighting in the Middle East, the group would turn on North America.

"This is a message to Canada and all the American tyrants: We are coming and we will destroy you, with permission from Allah the almighty," the unidentified foreign fighter said.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2.....ine-video/

Must be blowback for Canada's vast foreign empire.

[PM]

Guilt by association. They didn't nuke the US over Iraq, so they're just as complicit.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Do Canadians even have nukes?

[Warrren]

That's why they're called Cannukes.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

I think that pun bombed.

[Winston]

Pretty sure they used to be called Bomarcs.

[OneOut]

"a member of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant said in an online video that after fighting in the Middle East, the group would turn on North America."

If they wait until the fighting is over in the Middle East we have nothing to worry about and can dismantle the NSA.

[Sevo]

Just so we can all remember that gov't spying, taxes, regulations and whatever else they do isn't all of what we got:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL8lu9kOvVg
Guy's GOOD!

[jesse.in.mb]

Ha, I especially like how bored he looks while doing it. Awesome coordination though.

[Derpetologist]

More from Derpbook!

Whether you walk on a sidewalk, turn on a light, use the internet, eat a candy bar, drive in a car, use a computer, use indoor plumbing, etc. All of these things have been facilitated by the government and would not exist in their current for if not for the organization and incentives the government provides.

? Praise government from which all blessings flow!

[Winston]

incentives the government provides.

*Cough*cronyism*cough*

And isn't the candy part of the dreaded consumer culture and fatty foods the gov should stamp out?

[Hyperion]

Yes, all things were invented by the government. Before big centralized government, nothing existed, at all.

[Derpetologist]

So the next time you look out a window or admire an hourglass, just think where we'd be without sand.

? Sand! Sand! Sand!

[Derpetologist]

So the next time you look out a window or admire an hourglass, just think where we'd be without sand.

? Sand! Sand! Sand!

[Cytotoxic]

NOTHING OUTSIDE THE STATE NOTHING AGAINST THE STATE

[Anonymous Coward]

would not exist in their current for if not for the organization and incentives the government provides.

In other words, they'd be better?

[Derpetologist]

Derpbook is the gift that keeps on giving!

Also being a socialist and being a liberal are in no way mutually exclusive. Implying they are makes me furious about the way your public education has failed you.

[Winston]

Well considering the status of most "liberals" in the Anglosphere I'm not sure if he is wrong?

[Derpetologist]

Call an American liberal a socialist and watch what happens.

[Winston]

That's because they don't want to admit the truth.

Also are there non-socialist liberals? And the liberals haven't been very classical since about 1914.

[Warrren]

Call one a fascist and see what happens.

[OneOut]

Hit you with a murse ?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Harrison Ford: "I don't know or care" if Han shot first

[Warrren]

There's no point to caring about it.

[Derpetologist]

Derpmania!

While there can certainly be some overlap, the terms refer to attitudes towards different aspects of governance. Socialism is almost purely economic, liberalism is mostly just a willingness to put aside tradition and try new things. It's really just that simple.

[Tman]

Liberalism certainly is a great way to ignore the fundamentals of economics, he's got you there.

[Warrren]

They mistake populism for economic and ethical truths.

[William of Purple]

Total Eclipse of the heart

[Derpetologist]

There's no end in sight!

So here is my response to the Stossel piece:

While it is true there are likely dozens and dozens of superfluous and burdensome laws on the books, they are almost never acted upon by law enforcement. Very rarely if ever will police officers waste their time enforcing lemonade stand or girl scout cookie sales kids soliciting laws unless there is a complaint, or several complaints from other citizens. Just like police would never on their own accord enforce a noise ordinance unless there was a complaint. So it is not superfluous and burdensome laws that are to blame in these situations, but asshole citizens who want to ruin everyone else's fun and just need to complain about something. Every neighborhood has that one nosy, crochety, old asshole that has nothing to do all day but call the police on skateboarders and teens talking to loudly as they walk through the neighborhood. You, I, and everyone that was ever a child has fell victim to these types of people, who basically annoy the police into enforcing dumb laws that exist that they would rather not enforce. And in general soliciting laws, and I am sure lobster container laws, exist for a purpose....

[OneOut]

Get off my lawn.

[Derpetologist]

Is this guy a fascist or what?

For instance, to keep every street corner from having guys selling everything from knockoff bags and jewelry to stereos and socks put of their vans on every street corner. Here in Chicago you have probably seen the many street carts of fried foods, ice cream, and pickup trucks selling fruit on the side of North Avenue. Almost none of those people have licenses to sell that stuff, or have passed proper health inspections, but even in a revenue hungry city like Chicago, the police drive right past them and don't bother wasting their time, unless of course, some old bored asshole calls to complain.

[Derpetologist]

Tony is a rank amateur compared to this fool:

The Clinton administration helped make the push to get the Internet started for public use. Remember Al Gore "invented the internet"? The power grid, phone lines, city plumbing, roads, and pretty much every other modern convenience we have would never had existed for EVERYONE in its current for if it wasn't for government facilitating it. Without government incentives and subsidies, thousands of rural areas in this country would be in the dark ages, because there would have been no profit to be made by serving them from a private corporation. For instance, cut off the post office at the knees, and guess what? 20% or rural America no longer gets packages or mail.

[Derpetologist]

And the cherry on top!

Democrats used to be Conservatives, Republicans used to be liberals. These are facts, not opinions.

[Warrren]

And this is how a thread dies. Alone and unloved.

[Snark Plissken]

Because it's a libertarian thread. Liberal threads die in the soft bosom of the collective.