Police

New Mexico Police Fatal Shooting of Woman After Car Chase Over "Perceived Moving Violation" That Local Cops Wouldn't Join Ruled Justified

Oliver Wilson shot at Jeanette Anaya and her car 16 times

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shot by cop
via local media

New Mexico state trooper Oliver Wilson shot at Jeanette Anaya and her car 16 times at the end of a pursuit that began over what the District Attorney says Wilson called a "perceived" moving violation. Although the DA said she did not see evidence of a moving violation, a grand jury which investigated only the moments before the shooting ruled the police officer's actions justified. Anaya, according to a surviving passenger in the car, as well as the DA, tried to avoid being stopped by police out of a fear of being arrested on a warrant for a "low-level concealing identity charge."

Despite the apparent lack of a justifiable cause to compel Anaya to stop in the first place, the DA appeared to blame the victim in the shooting, saying Anaya "was so fearful of getting arrested she lost her life, according to the Albuquerque Journal. As to the fact pattern surrounding the shooting, the Journal reports:

Before the shooting, officer Wilson used a driving maneuver to force Anaya's Honda sedan to stop on Camino Carlos Rey.

The State Police have said previously Anaya was "aggressively" backing toward the officer after he got out of his patrol car. Reconstruction of the incident and [passenger Jeremy] Munoz's testimony indicated that Anaya did in fact backup toward Wilson's car, said [district attorney Angela] Pacheco.

As Wilson got out of his patrol car at the end of the chase, Anaya "was revving the vehicle," Pacheco said in relating the officer's testimony, although she said Wilson's dash-cam video does not show Anaya's vehicle when it traveled in reverse toward him…

The officer, who's been with the State Police for less than two years, testified "he was in fear of his life and he was terrorized," Pacheco said.

Will Wilson face charges for forcing Anaya's car to stop despite appearing to lack a justifiable cause to? Don't count on it, even though local cops in Santa Fe refused a request to join the chase because the State Police could not provide a reason it was happening. The incident provides another tragic example of the need for stricter rules about when police are allowed to pursue vehicles, whether on open roads or in city traffic, especially for reasons as flimsy as "perceived" moving violations.

Most of the 16 shots Wilson fired at Anaya's car were while it was moving away from the officer, according to the DA, who suggested the copwas trying to stop her from fleeing. Anaya was fatally shot in the back and neck. A state toxicology report apparently found cocaine in Anaya's system, but the Journal says it wasn't mentioned in the DA's report on the grand jury's findings. Anaya's family's attorney wouldn't comment on whether a lawsuit was forthcoming.

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  1. This case seems to be more dubious than most of Reason’s other postings. While I don’t like “if you haven’t done anything wrong” arguments, it is foolish to get in a car chase with police.

    1. It’s beyond foolish; the penalty is death.

    2. Yeah, especially foolish when they can’t even come up with a reason for a chase in the first place. Hopefully, you’ll have a cop decide that you were “fleeing” when there’s no reason for him/her to do so too, and then we can see how bulletproof you are.

      1. Look, he may not have had a valid reason to pull her over, but if a cop pulls out behind you and turns on his lights and siren are you going to try and escape by getting in a high speed pursuit?

        1. If you run away from the cops, are they justified in shooting you in the back? If you drive away from cops, are they justified in shooting you in the back?

          Man, I fucking hope you get to find out.

          1. Actually the answer to both questions is yes. I don’t like it any more than you, but there it is.

            1. Wait…you’re saying they are justified in shooting a fleeing, non-threatening suspect in the back?

              Man, I hope you become a “suspect” one day too. Don’t run!

            2. Fleeing from the police is a capital offense?

          2. That’s not what I’m saying at all, and you know it.

            In this case the officer claims he killed her because she was attempting to back into him after she pulled over. I don’t know if that’s true or not. However, with that being said, I wouldn’t have gotten into a high speed pursuit with a cop to begin with.

            Looking at it another way, if this was two private citizens, and one tried running over the other, and the one not in the car shot and killed the driver, wouldn’t the shooter be not guilty under self-defense laws?

            We also believe (or at least should believe) in the right to a presumption of innocence. We have to assume the officer was acting in self-defense unless there is evidence to prove otherwise.

            Look, if the cop shot a woman who was sitting in a parked car or for just driving away, that’s one thing and should be a capital crime. There are plenty of examples of things like that Reason covers.

        2. Not the same thing, but I had a state cop tailgating me on a highway at night, it just looked like a normal car to me in the darkness. I was already going faster than the speed limit, he wanted to pass me, so he flipped on his cop lights for a second-which were those new tiny ones. I thought I caught a glimpse of cop lights, but when I looked in my mirror, they were off so I kept going but kept checking my mirror. He flipped them on again, and I was getting ready to pull over, but then he turned them off and changed lanes and sped past me. What a dick. Asshole could have just passed me in the first place if he wanted to speed.

          1. And that’s the popular new thing–paint jobs that make it almost impossible to tell it’s a cop in a rearview mirror, with the tiny new lights that contribute to same. Makes me want to stab.

            1. In DC, they drive around with their lights on all the time, just with a slightly different setting than when they’re trying to pull you over. It’s maddening, but no doubt if you guess wrong and keep going, you’ll liable to get shot.

            2. I would so love for AZ to regulate that shit out of existence like they did with speed traps.

              No more low profile or concealed lights, clearly marked cars for all patrol vehicles – and patrol means speed patrol which is what 90% of these guys’ job is anyway.

              1. The thin light bars are still easy to discern, but at night they look like luggage racks. So slow down for luggage racks. The main point of them I think is to reduce drag and avoid light bulb replacements with the LEDs.

                1. I have absolutely zero problem identifying even cop cars without roof lights, but that may be because I had years of practice, because “unmarked” state police cars are extremely common in Connecticut. All you have to do is recognize the make and model (usually a Crown Vic) and look for a ram bar on the front, the spotlights on the windows, dual exhaust and a stabilizer bar under the rear wheels, or just the “Interceptor” marking on the back from the manufacturer.

                  1. Red means stop, green means go, Dodge Chargers and Crown Vics mean behave.

                    1. Shorter Warty: and no means yes. And yes means yes. And “please god stop you’re killing me” means “hell yes”.

                  2. Cop departments know that some people have the body profile, grill, headlights, and taillights burned in to their brains, but I don’t think it is a good idea to advertise this strategy. Some day they might start trying harder to be unpredictable.

                  3. Whose idea was it make a Crown Victoria boat a pursuit vehicle anyway?

                    1. The Interceptor models have beefed up engines and suspensions. They are much more formidable than a standard Crown Vic.

                    2. It is the engine and guts they put in it. Most American “muscle” cars are heavy as fuck anyway. Cops need four doors and trunk space for their victims and weapons.

                    3. The weapons go in the backseat and the victims go in the trunk, I assume.

                    4. Not the weapons they don’t want to be connected with.

                  4. Unfortunately, I’ve seen cops on the beltway using Toyota Camry’s for speeder patrols.

                    My local town’s police are fairly well marked, as are the next door Indian Casino cops (who we contract out part of our policing duties to) but they do have a charger with dark tint and no other external modifications to catch speeders on the main road through town.

                  5. The new Ford Taurus unmarked cars are tricky to detect at first.

              2. Having obvious patrol cars does more to deter speeding than having stealth cars, at least that’s my opinion.

            3. The less able you are to tell it’s a cop, the more easily they can arrestshoot you for fleeing.

    3. It is “foolish” because of how stupidly cops blow things out of proportion, but it is a totally expectable occurrence that the cops should be professional about.

    4. I love how you essentially treat police officers as wild animals. Yeah, it’s also foolish to get in a cage with a tiger, because everyone knows that there’s a good chance the tiger will rip you to shreds for no good reason. Maybe I’m crazy, but I expect police officers to exercise judgment too and don’t blame the victim just because she also didn’t exercise good judgment.

      1. I expect police officers to exercise judgment

        Unwise. It’s best to treat them like the wild animals that they are. Expecting them to exercise judgment is a good way to get beaten or worse.

        1. One day, I hope to make a minx coat from their furmustaches.

    5. This case seems to be more dubious than most of Reason’s other postings. While I don’t like “if you haven’t done anything wrong” arguments, it is foolish to get in a car chase with police.

      If all reason the cop had for stopping you in the first place was a minor traffic violation, and the only reason he’s chasing you is you ran, there’s is absolutely no justification for using lethal force.

      Even if you accept that, by running, the suspect could endanger others, shooting the driver of a car isn’t going to fix that – either their are people around in which case its too dangerous to shoot, or there are not, in which case there’s no need to shoot.

      Lethal force is only supposed to be used to protect life (in the face of an imminent threat) or to stop the escape of a person suspected of committing a violent felony whose escape you have reason to believe will immediately endanger others.

      None of that applies here.

    6. This is akin to one of Lonewacko’s bag o’ arguments why teh immigrants ar evul = the absurd percentage of car chases they get into. When it was pointed out that there would probably be nearly Zero car chases if you allowed them to have drivers licenses, get insurance, and not risk being thrown out of the country for *a broken tail light*…. he’d froth in stupefaction= AMNESTY!?! ILLEGALS IS ILLEGAL!!

      No ‘solution’ sans concentration camps and boxcars to Guadalajara seemed acceptable to him. Strangely, he never grasped why no one took his micro-grievances seriously after that.

    7. Why? Don’t you have a right to try to preserve your life and health from an overzealous cop? Since when is a fleeing motorist fair game to open fire? She wasn’t wanted for terrorism or murder of a police officer, she wasn’t wanted for anything.

      1. NO, precedent is pretty clear – if the cop is breaking the law then your only recourse is the judiciary.

        He wants to enter your house without a warrant – best stand aside and file a lawsuit and hope the judge sides with you.

  2. A state toxicology report apparently found cocaine in Anaya’s system

    Another drug-related fatality.

  3. The officer, who’s been with the State Police for less than two years, testified “he was in fear of his life and he was terrorized,” Pacheco said.

    The officer testified his streaming urine made his weapon too slippery to keep it from discharging, but dash cam footage showed in fact his erection got caught in the trigger.

    And yes, even when the driver is shot dead, it’s not going to matter to anyone whether the shooter had the authority to engage the driver in the first place.

    1. it’s not going to matter to anyone whether the shooter had the authority to engage the driver in the first place.

      It’s gonna matter to people who think police who light up citizens despite a lack of probable cause ought to be fired and prosecuted.

      That being said, fleeing a cop car is stupid and unlikely to succeed, with a huge downside of likely death.

      1. The deaths are nearly always caused by the police chasing. Unless the person is known to be armed and dangerous, there is no reason to chase someone.

        People who run from the cops should be charged with such and absolutely slammed for it. That way people don’t think the solution to being caught by the cops is just to run. But there is no reason for the cops to engage in high speed chases absent really pressing circumstances.

        1. But John, fleeing people aren’t respecting their authoritah. You know that the penalty for that is death.

          1. And occasionally death for some poor bastard who happens to be around when the cop loses control of his vehicle.

            1. Of course, it doesn’t take a fleeing suspect for that to happen, a speed trap will do nicely as well. I was almost in a terrible accident because of this once.

              1. I almost killed a cop in one once.

                Driving down the interstate, sppeding like a mofo when I spot a group of cops with some other cars pulled over.

                One of those cops points at me and waves me to the shoulder – fuck, caught.

                So I decelerate and flying right out from my blindspot comes this motorcycle cop who had been following me (and probably radioed ahead to get them to flag me down).

                No lights, siren, nothing, just following dangerously close – he had the gall to get mad at me for nearly getting himself killed.

            2. Cops aren’t exactly known as crack marksmen either, and they tend to empty out those verboten large sized magazines they carry whenever given the opportunity.

            3. And occasionally death for some poor bastard who happens to be around when the cop loses control of his vehicle.

              Several years back round here a female cop was speeding down the road and t-boned a minivan, killing the entire family inside. She walked away from the accident.

              Nothing else happened.

              1. My mom got rear-ended by a cop one time while sitting at a traffic light. Fortunately no one was hurt much.

                1. Did the police department pay to fix her car?

                  Haaaaaaaa ha ha ha!

                  Yeah. I know.

        2. Unless the person is known to be armed and dangerous, there is no reason to chase someone.

          Yes there is. It’s an excuse to do violence. That’s the whole point of being a cop, isn’t it? Being able to deal out violence without consequence?

        3. “Unless the person is known to be armed and dangerous”

          To me, even if I was a cop, that would be a good reason not to chase someone. But I would be a pretty lethargic cop. Too bad most of them aren’t.

      2. fleeing a cop car is stupid and unlikely to succeed

        Depends where you are, really. If you are in a rural area with lots of little back roads and trees, it’s not too hard if your car is up to it and you know the roads. I have several friends who used to run from the cops like that somewhat often.

        1. I did that once. I was already near a friend’s house, so when I saw the blues I floored it, whizzed through some turns at high speed, turned into his driveway and killed the lights. A few seconds later the blues went right by.

          1. I tried it also, and I’d had a few beers after playing tennis, floored it through an intersection on a late yellow. Cop caught me and gave me a field sobriety test and let me go. Pretty decent guy. This was in the late 80s and the cop was pretty young.

            1. I was driving way too fast on a semi-back road and I whip past this 5.0 Mustang (this would have been 1988 or 1989). Just out of the corner of my eye I think I see grill lights come on. I briefly contemplated going for it, but then I thought “he is in a 5.0 Mustang, I am in a 2.4L Saab 900S, he’s going to win”. I pulled over and he yelled at me but then let me go because I was just a kid.

              It would have been interesting to go for it, but that road didn’t have any good escape routes, and frankly, getting off with a warning is better than getting arrested for running.

              1. I pulled into a driveway and the guy caught spotted me pretty quick. He asked me if I lived there and I said I was turning around. Obviously I was trying to lose him. Pretty amazing I got off with just a warning actually.

  4. What the fuck is up with New Mexico? They seem to be even worse than everywhere else in these things. It is basically a place for various misfits who don’t have the money or fit in well enough to live in Colorado. How the hell did it manage to get what appears to be the worst law enforcement in the country?

    1. Im sure someone will find a way to blame Gary Johnson.

      Speaking of which, what happened to Neu?

      1. He realized his pedantry, pointless contrarianism, and nitpicking didn’t hold a candle to Classic Tulpa’s and just gave up.

        1. My favorite Neu argument was him trying to tell me that the Laffer Curve was invalid because the effects of tax changes was chaotic.

          In the mathematical sense.

          1. Haha you must have loved that, robc.

            1. He claimed that it had been proven, he might have even had a link. Which only suggests there are at least 2 morons in the world.

              1. Which, of course, was no surprise to you. Nice.

              2. The number of morons in the world is also chaotic.

      2. Who? I never noticed that any dickhead who doesn’t matter doesn’t type stupid things on the internet anymore.

      3. “‘what happened to Neu?””

        After their aborted comeback from retirement in 1984 they’ve stuck to remastering older material…

        Wait, what?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAXYMOgHQI4

        1. Norm Macdonald!!!

  5. The officer, who’s been with the State Police for less than two years….

    The style guide for these stories says the preferred form is “a two year veteran of the State Police”

  6. and [passenger Jeremy] Munoz’s testimony

    I’m sure the lack of lawyer and the large armed men standing between him and the exit had nothing to do with his testimony contradicting the dash cam and corroborating the trooper’s story. Nothing at all.

  7. Trooper Oliver Wilson. Never forget that name.

  8. “The DA appeared to blame the victim in the shooting, saying Anaya “was so fearful of getting arrested she lost her life.”

    The killings will continue until morale improves.

    1. “The DA appeared to blame the victim in the shooting, saying Anaya “was so fearful of getting arrested she lost her life.”

      She didn’t lose her life because of her fear — she lost her life because an enforcer for the largest local criminal gang murdered her.

      FTFY.

      1. Passive voice, prole. Passive voice implies it was all her fault. She drove right into the path of those bullets.

    2. And it never occurs to the DA that our insane justice system that ruins hundreds of thousands of people’s lives and destroys any number of families might have something to do with people being desperate not to be arrested.

      1. Of course not. People do it to themselves. If they asked permission and obeyed orders then would never get into these messes. It’s all their fault.

      2. She’s also not the first woman to freak out with law enforcement.

        I had a girlfriend, once, who when she got pulled over, she didn’t pull over for a long time; she just kind of decided to pretend the officer was trying to pull someone else over. So, when she finally pulled over, the cops was pissed off, and he called her a “bitch”.

        In our boarding school, you didn’t use that kind of language around women, much less actually address it to them. I was a member of a skull and bones kind of society, “The River Appreciation Society” that…um…enforced those kinds of rules on other guys in the dorm who didn’t “get it”.

        Anyway, she’d never been addressed that way before in her life, so when he called her a “bitch”, she leaned out of of her window, and she smacked the hell out of the cop, Zsa Zsa style. And then she started the car back up and left.

        They went after her for assaulting a police officer, evading arrest, etc., etc. She ended up with time served and attending anger management classes…

        Point is, and any cop will tell you, women having extremely emotional reactions to getting pulled over is hardly unusual, and having them speed off down the road in the hope that the cop will just go away isn’t especially unusual either.

        1. “I was a member of a skull and bones kind of society, “The River Appreciation Society” that…um…enforced those kinds of rules on other guys in the dorm who didn’t “get it””

          You’re gay?

          1. Um…no.

            It was coed boarding school.

            Two girls for every guy.

            They send girls to boarding school to keep them safe from guys like me.

            *Muhahahaha*

            1. That sounds awesome!

              The gay froo-froo dinner club, however, doesn’t.

              1. You mean like “Skull and Bones”?

                Yeah, it wasn’t like that.

                There wasn’t any dinner club.

                1. Your gay poets society. Whatever.

        2. Did you just admit that you and your loser friends used to beat up people for not being as big of douchebag prudes as you?

          1. Thats how I read it.

            1. Me, too.

          2. “The River Cunt Society”

            1. $10 says the hazing ritual for new members was even more gay than we can imagine.

              1. I like my money way too much to even consider that bet.

              2. “The River We-Don’t-Like-Cunts-In-The-Literal-Sense Society”

            2. Definitely not “The Cunt Appreciation Society”

              1. “If we treat women like children who have to be protected from certain language because they’re too fragile to handle it, we’ll get so little pussy that we won’t even need beards! It’s genius!”

          3. You don’t get it, Warty. Those vulgar curs were grateful that they were pummeled into polite society by these effete twats.

            1. “You’re the vulgarian, you fuck!”

            2. It was more like…

              The women on the other side of campus, statistically, those were your girlfriends, but they were also likely to be the mother of your children. It was also likely that your sisters were there. A lot of students’ moms had been there. For a lot of people, both their moms and grandmothers had gone there.

              It was in the South, and these were traditionally southern sensibilities.

              People send their daughters there and expect them to be treated a certain way. If you don’t like the way we treated women, that’s fine! It isn’t a public school. It doesn’t require any public funds. To whatever extent your opinion is important on the matter, it’s really only important to you.

              1. Cool story, Ku Klux Kunt.

              2. Of course, Ken. Everyone knows that mindless violence is the correct and civilized response for failing to hew to an arbitrary cultural norm.

                It’s like you have some cancerous gland in you that blocks any self-awareness and constantly pumps out unbearable pomposity.

              3. It was statistically likely that your sister lived on the other side of the campus and was getting banged by one of your douchebag rugby/lacrosse/crew buddies?

                1. The chances of your sister being mistreated by some other guy at the school were extremely low.

                  1. But the chances of her getting buttfucked by the guy who aside from the politeness facade was actually the biggest douchebag you knew are extremely high.

                    1. Are you calling me a douchebag, DRS?

                    2. I know how douchebags operate.

          4. Actually, it wasn’t us; it was the River Monster.

            The River Monster would come at night and do terrible things to guys who…engaged in inappropriate behavior.

            And when that happened, and the River Monster dragged some kid out of his bed and did whatever, and the kid ended up in some cave down by the river that night? The monster would always leave a note under the dean’s door, telling him where to look, and the kid would always swear up and down that it was the River Monster.

            At R.A.S., in the River Appreciation Society, our job was to protect guys from the river monster–especially Freshmen. Many of us were inter-generational members. My dad and grandfather both went to the school. And that wasn’t exactly uncommon. I hope R.A.S. is still out there, somewhere. Still trying to…help people.

            1. Instead of being ashamed like a normal human would be, you’re bragging about how you and your gay little crew intimidated a bunch of children. You sound exactly like a cop, you authoritarian cunt.

              1. Actually, there were big differences between me and a cop.

                For one thing, I wasn’t the government.

                For another thing, going to that school was completely voluntary; I don’t get to decide not to be subject to the police.

                The other thing is that cops are presumably grown ups–how’s that compare to me being 16?

                Also, philosophically, I see what we were doing in the River Appreciation Society as rather tame compared to what we were doing here:

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6BuoXNGbMg

                I think people are just more conditioned to accept one than the other. When I tell people I was a punk kid that went to shows, jumped on top of people, and started fights for no reason, nobody bats an eye.

                But when I tell people we did much, much tamers stuff in a boarding school setting, suddenly people get upset, why? I think it’s becasue they associate boarding schools with privilege–it’s basically a form of class envy. But boarding school antics are actually much tamer than what used to happen elsewhere.

                From a libertarian perspective, I don’t see non-government actors enforcing norms as necessarily a bad thing. So long as it’s about volition. Enforcing norms certainly isn’t a good thing just because it’s being done by the government. Why would it not being enforced by the government necessarily make it a bad thing?

                1. Let me put it this way, Cunctator Maximus. Starting fights at stupid punk shows is ordinary shithead behavior. You’re right, there’s nothing remarkable about being a violent little shitheel that needs a fist down his throat.

                  On the other hand, in your gay little bullshit fake-ass pseudo-aristocratic school for jerkoffs, you were in a fucking lynch mob. That, unlike having a stupid mohawk and kicking other idiots with your stupid Doc Martens, is remarkable. Remarkably psychopathic. And you’re proud of it. You fucking idiot.

                  1. Warty, you will note that he brags about initiating violence towards people for using words he doesn’t like. Brags about it.

                    I think First Cuntenant Ken wants to be a cop really, really badly.

                    1. Your comments are just as fascinating as ever.

                    2. Likewise, cunt. Because you don’t even realize the disgusting depths of your personality that you willingly expose. It really is fascinating, like a train wreck is fascinating. How does it feel to be an obtuse, morally bankrupt slime of a human being?

                    3. Cunctator Maximus is pretty good. Change your handle.

                  2. “On the other hand, in your gay little bullshit fake-ass pseudo-aristocratic school for jerkoffs, you were in a fucking lynch mob.”

                    Actually, we never lynched anybody.

                    And your hatred of kids whose parents can afford to send their kids to boarding schools is duly noted.

                    Do you feel the same way about inner city kids who are affiliated with a gang? All those gangs are doing much worse stuff than atomic wedgies, too.

                    Really, there isn’t anything special about kids in intergenerational boarding schools forming cliques and asserting themselves. You’re just especially negative and sensitive to the aesthetics of prep school kids.

                    1. Oh god First Cuntenant Ken is calling you a poor, Warty! Your objection isn’t to his initiation of violence, it’s because you’re jealous! It’s comedy fucking gold! This is one for the ages.

                    2. No, Epi, what Ken is saying is that apes don’t read philosophy.

                    3. Yes he does, JW. He just doesn’t understand it. Or anything else.

                    4. It’s just my racism against richers coming out, Epi. Ken’s the victim here.

                    5. That explains your hatred for me too. It all makes sense now. I’m a victim! Woo hoo!

                    6. “It’s just my racism against richers coming out”

                      I didn’t say I was a victim of anything.

                      But if class envy is what’s driving your visceral reaction, then it is what it is.

                    7. “But if class envy is what’s driving your visceral reaction, then it is what it is.”

                      Maybe you and Tony have something in common after all!

                    8. Is it that we don’t form mobs and beat up children for saying words we don’t like?

                2. Nobody bats an eye because people went to punk stuff specifically to be belligerent.

                  People go to boarding schools probably because their parents sent them there, not because they wanted a gay little club trying to get them to become one of them or get bothered all the time.

                  1. “Nobody bats an eye because people went to punk stuff specifically to be belligerent.”

                    Yeah, well they weren’t sending their daughters to our school so that they’d be treated like tramps by the guys on the other side of campus, either. And a lot of parents were sending their kids to our school to teach them some manners and give them a sense of how to behave in polite society.

                    The military school down the road was much harsher. These standards were officially enforced down the road at places like VMI.

                    You’re right, though. You don’t got to see Youth Brigade and then complain about getting jumped on and someone picking a fight with you for no reason.

                    You probably shouldn’t go to an intergenerational boarding school in the South and be too surprised that people don’t take kindly to seeing women mistreated–according to local standards–either.

                    Just because you’re from the Northeast, or wherever it is that treating women like men is perfectly acceptable? Doesn’t mean everyone feels that way–or that the way you’re used to treating women is the way things should be in the South.

                    My school didn’t just make this stuff up. It’s Southern culture. Read about it here:

                    http://tinyurl.com/jvojazj

                    I know the subconscious belief that white people don’t have any culture has sort of permeated pop culture, but we’re smarter than that, aren’t we?

                    1. Just because you’re from the Northeast, or wherever it is that treating women like men is perfectly acceptable?

                      Treating women as equals is a Northeast thing? Are you honestly this fucking stupid? Of course you are, cunt.

                    2. “Treating women as equals is a Northeast thing?”

                      You didn’t look at the link, did you.

                    3. You didn’t look at the link, did you.

                      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                    4. Apparently, you’re one of these people who thinks white people don’t have a cultural heritage?

                      Is that what you’re laughing at? The idea that the South has a culture, and that culture includes the way women are treated?

                      Because, really, the way women are treated is a distinguishing characteristic of Southern culture.

                    5. No, cunt, I’m laughing at you, but you’re too fucking obtuse and retarded to get it. But that just makes it funnier!

                      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                    6. “” the subconscious belief that white people don’t have any culture has sort of permeated pop culture””

                      Wait, I haven’t been following = was that punk video thing of kids ‘not dancing’, acting like idiots, supposed to be ‘culture’?

                      Seriously, white people need to learn to dance. I’m glad I grew up with hiphop.

                3. You really should get that gland looked at, Ken. Intolerable smugness is not its own reward.

                  1. “Intolerable smugness is not its own reward.”

                    The perception of smugness about anything I’ve written in this thread–is all in your head and all about you.

                    It’s the same feeling that makes Tony think he’s justified in helping himself to my paycheck.

            2. Was the river monster the dean? Did he do something terrible to you? Its okay to talk about it.

              1. Every time I think you might be getting bearable, Ken, you pull some unbelievably stupid shit like this.

                Did you seriously think that we’d all laugh at your psychotic memoirs of the controlling, brutish savagery that you pretended was gentility?

                1. I read that as British savagery. Because that’s where all this hoity-toity society crap started. We should kick their dandy asses.

                  1. We should kick their dandy asses.

                    We already did. Twice.

                    1. But that was for different reasons. I mean we should kick their asses for that specific thing.

              2. According to the Book for RAS, which contains the members of the River Appreciation Society and all its history as it happened, the River Monster was first spotted–I think sometime in the 1920s.

            3. Respect (but not total behavior excusing) for women is fine, but I don’t generally have high expectations for a big group of stupid kids to correctly figure out amongst themselves when somebody has been disrespected. It is mostly the cliquey and also often close to gay shit that these preppy club things are in to that I don’t care for.

              1. Voluntary gayness is fine, but preppy clubs also have been known to have a lot of rapey gayness.

            4. I’ll chime in here as a woman and say that this kind of “protecting the honor of the delicate flower of womanhood” is, in my mind, akin to Western colonialists dictating what they think is best for those poor, backward brown people. What I look for in a man (any man, not just a romantic partner) is someone to fight alongside me, not for me. The best thing is for women to learn to stand up for themselves and not to expect some white knight is going to come along and make everything OK. White knights are cunts, anyway.

          5. The first rule of the River Appreciation Society is you don’t talk about the River Appreciation Society. And at least they got to beat up people.

            1. It wasn’t beating up people.

              We were helping freshmen marticulate.

              1. That sounds very arrogant.

                1. “Marticulate” means getting the snot beat out of you at Kenny’s School of Erotic Violence.

                  1. D-Day: [enters with a bruised and bloodied Otter] I found him after he called me from a phone on the side of the road outside of town.
                    Boon: [to Otter] Holy shit! What happened to you? You look grotesqe.
                    Otter: Some of the Omegas jumped me and did a little dancing on my face.
                    Bluto: Who was it?
                    Otter: It was Greggie and Douggie… and some of the other Hitler youth.
                    Boon: Why? What’d you do?
                    Otter: That’s just it… I don’t know. They’re just animals, I guess.

        3. Why didn’t you marry this woman??

          1. I probably should have.

          2. She went black and never came back?

            1. FWIW, I got into my first serious fistfight defending the honor of a woman. I was so proud of myself. Then they smashed my skull in with a rock, and the girl found someone else to date while I recovered. White Knight syndrome sucks.

              1. No GILMORE, it was the River Monster that bashed your skull in.

                You can’t hardly blame her for not waiting around for a gimp like you. You barely functioned as a man.

  9. I think GTA 5 is pretty realistic. The cops all yell freeze while firing multiple rounds at me.

  10. “local cops in Santa Fe refused a request to join the chase because the State Police could not provide a reason it was happening”

    They learned the R word? They used restraint? Or was it just Super Troopers style rivalry?

  11. saying Anaya “was so fearful of getting arrested she lost her life”

    This seems awfully common, you know…maybe a problem in itself…

  12. The officer felt terrorized which makes her a terrorist. Do you want the terrorist to win?

  13. Only crazy people fear face to face contact with the police; crazy people, terrorists, and criminals.

  14. it is foolish to get in a car chase with police.

    Those boots won’t lick themselves.

  15. I grew up in NM and it never, ever made the news except when the occasional bear wandered into the city and got stuck up a tree or utility pole.

    Glad to see the place has really turned the corner with its constant stream of abhorrent stories of asshole cops. You take what you can get.

  16. Pacheco said in relating the officer’s testimony, although she said Wilson’s dash-cam video does not show Anaya’s vehicle when it traveled in reverse toward him?

    What an amazing coincidence! Curse all the rotten luck!

    1. How much processing power do those dash cam computers have, anyway? They’re always turning off at just the right time to protect their drivers.

  17. brokencycle: Reason has a thing for police brutality stories, and they tend not to make careful distinctions between cases. There are ones nobody can really argue about, e.g. SWAT teams busting down the wrong door and shooting someone. But too often, the stories are about tragic accidents that happened because the victim did one or more very stupid things. So here we have a coked-up woman with a warrant who made some some stupid driving moves. I’m not saying she deserved it or that the cop is blameless, but clearly there’s blame on both sides. Unfortunately, ideology prevents many people from acknowledging this. It’s like when leftists refuse to admit that any poor person has any responsibility for their situation. “They’re all victims of the system, man! Don’t blame the victim!”

    Ken Schulz: Don’t let the ideologues get to you. I see all that less as “controlling, brutish savagery” (LOL) than as an example of spontaneous social order, though the details would matter. (I.e., the degree of the original offenses against the women, and the degree of punishment the perps got.)

    1. Did you just say “perps”? Oh my fucking god, you’re just as much of a wannabe cop as Ken. How repulsive.

      1. Jeez, it’s just a flippant turn of phrase. Calm down. Would “miscreants” be better?

      2. Or perhaps a fuller version of the term: “the perpetrators of the offenses against the women.”

        All I’m saying is that, in theory, I’m not much bothered by the idea of young men who defend the honor of young women via an off-the-books, informal talking-to that might have a physical component.

        No, this doesn’t mean beating the shit out of them. But what are the alternatives? Letting jerks and abusers get away with it? Let the women think most guys are like that, and don’t care? Call in the bureaucracy and bring sexual harassment charges or whatever? Sometimes peer pressure is the best solution, as long as it is done judiciously.

    2. So, it’s OK to break-in, kidnap and beat the shit out of people who were impolite. Got it.

      Remind me to avoid your enlightened, independent syndicate when Libertopia finally arrives. I wouldn’t want to get shanghaied and cornholed in the middle of the night by your brave souls, for the crime of temerity.

      1. I wouldn’t want to get shanghaied and cornholed

        Who are you trying to convince, us or you?

      2. Like I said, it depends on “the degree of the original offenses against the women, and the degree of punishment.” I am not advocating “beating the shit out of people” or “cornholing” them. I doubt that’s what Ken was talking about. If he was, he should speak up.

        1. Let’s be clear about some things.

          Women aren’t children. They can think and stand up for themselves without your monkey chivalry.

          Unless there is violence or the threat of violence, keep your fucking hands to yourself. If you can’t handle strong words without attacking somebody, then maybe you should listen to the ideologues.

          And yes, that’s exactly what Ken did, his delusional circle-jerk of massive rationalization euphemisms, notwithstanding.

    3. But too often, the stories are about tragic accidents that happened because the victim did one or more very stupid things.

      Exactly what was “accidental” about this cop ventilating this woman with his gun?

      1. This woman drove her car in a way that made the cop think he was in danger, whether he was or not. I doubt she intended to run him over, so she accidentally gave that impression because of a stupid decision.

    4. Whatever happened to spike strips and PIT maneuvers? Are those just for the COPS cameras?

      1. It says “Before the shooting, officer Wilson used a driving maneuver,” which I assume was a PIT maneuver. Spike strips are for roadblocks or when a bunch of cop cars are engaged in an extended pursuit, not for one cop stopping a car.

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