Philly Cop With History of Brawling Gets Into Fight With Teenage Daughter's Classmate

Zero tolerance for cops might not be a bad idea

Philadelphia City Council

Officer Tamika Gross of the Philadelphia Police Department had at least one complaint filed against her for fighting on duty, in 2009, and was also the subject of an internal affairs report in 2012 that noted she had "a history of getting in off-duty incidents involving her own children when they engage in disputes with area juveniles," according to the Philadelphia Daily News.

Gross, however, is apparently back at it, being investigated for jumping into a fight between her 16-year-old daughter and another 14-year-old girl, Tashiyya Higgins, at the high school. Gross' daughter saw a picture of the other girl with her ex-boyfriend and the two girls exchanged messages over social media. The boy was actually Higgins' cousin. Gross went to the school to complain that her daughter was being harassed by Higgins but Higgins' mother says school officials decided it was actually the other way around, suspending the cop's daughter.

Is this where the officer decided to step it up as a mom and teach her daughter a lesson about bullying? Not quite. Via the Daily News:

When Haggins and her friend walked outside the main door later that day [after Gross came to the school to complain and had her daughter suspended], she said, she saw Gross' daughter jump out of a silver Dodge Charger.

"She said, 'Mom, that's her right there!' " Haggins recalled. "Her mom got out of the car and said, 'Sure, you all want to fight over an autistic boy, go ahead and fight.' "

Haggins-Montgomery said the boy is not autistic.

Haggins said she and the other girl "got to fighting" and were "throwing punches" while Gross and her son watched by the car.

Haggins recalls hearing Gross' son say during the brawl: "Mom, don't jump in there, it's not your fight."

Gross didn't listen, Haggins said. "I was beating her up, and her mom jumped in and hit me in my eye," she said. "That's when everyone else started breaking it up."

During the fight, one of Haggins' friends called her mother.

"I hear her girlfriend say 'They jumpin' Tashiyya, they jumpin' Tashiyya!' " Haggins-Montgomery said. "All I can do is panic because I can hear my child screaming 'Her mom, her mom hit me!' "

Haggins-Montgomery said she learned from a police supervisor who responded to the fight that Gross is a cop.

"Even if she didn't want to be a cop that day, she could have been a parent and been like, 'No. You don't do stuff like that,' " Haggins-Montgomery said. "You don't jump in a kids' fight. What gave you the gall to do that? You're a police officer. I'm sure they train y'all on different things like this."

"More training" may likely be the exact response of the police department to the case. Might zero tolerance work better for cops? 

Comments

[fish]

So how long will she be on paid vacation? Two....maybe three weeks?

[IDPNDNT]

A complaint? How about criminal charges?

This is assault pure and simple.

[Mad Scientist]

If this hilarious story was fiction, the author would be accused of racism.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

And sexism. But at least we know our friends in blue attract emotionally-stunted and vindictive bullies of all races and gender.

[Mad Scientist]

It seems as though they encourage it.

Officer Tamika Gross of the Philadelphia Police Department had at least one complaint filed against her for fighting on duty, in 2009, and was also the subject of an internal affairs report in 2012 that noted she had "a history of getting in off-duty incidents involving her own children when they engage in disputes with area juveniles,"

[Jquip]

Perk of the job.

[Francisco d Anconia]

So not only does she fit the profile of shitbag cop, she's raising the next generation of shitbag cop.

[Sy]

DONT BE TALKIN TRASH DONT BE TALKIN TRASH DONT BE TALKIN TRASH

[Entropy Void]

Whatchu tawkin' 'bout, Willis?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Officer Tamika Gross of the Philadelphia Police Department-

Stop right there.

[fish]

You're just pissed because you're fifth.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'm just happy to contribute.

[Fist of Etiquette]

You're a police officer. I'm sure they train y'all on different things like this.

So this is her first time dealing with Philadelphia law enforcement then? When they're not planting evidence or issuing phony parking tickets, yeah maybe they fit some of that training you're talking about in.

[Some call me Tim?]

Actually the Philadelphia parking authority issues most of the parking tickets in the city and they are a completely separate corrupt entity.

[rts]

That was the worst thing I've ever read.

[Almanian!]

Don't go to Jezebel or Feministing if you don't want to read something even wose...

[mr simple]

another 14-year-old girl, Tashiyya Higgins,

Haggins said she and the other girl "got to fighting"

Why is she fighting the Haggins girl if it was Higgins that was being cousins with her ex bf, or whatever? This is harder to follow than a CW teen drama.

[Almanian!]

Just love adults in general who get personally involved in their kids' altercations.

A Philly cop? That's just KICKIN' IT UP A NOTCH! BAM!

[IDPNDNT]

Just something a little hilarious about the mental picture of the girls mom coming out of nowhere and popping this girl in the eye.

[Suthenboy]

Jesus christ. This reads like a script authored by 'Murican to try and bring to life the worst kinds of cartoonish stereotypes.

I am always pointing out that the middle east if full of people that are not civilized. Clearly that is not restricted to the middle east. Disgusting.

[Suthenboy]

My apologies Mad Scientist. I see you nailed this already. I posted before reading the comments.

[GILMORE]

Hey man, you should refrain from characterizing these things as 'stereotypical'. The idea of urban black women getting into senseless fights over retrospectively meaningless and inexplicable reasons is largely a myth perpetuated by the Anglocentric media which seeks only to highlight isolated events like this as being endemic when in reality they are extraordinarily rare if not entirely apocryphal.

Now that this is settled, let us go and get a hamburger and ... oh shit!!! Yo, film this shit! Damn girl, get some!...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sfOXwtnm1I

[John C. Randolph]

It seems odd to me that those inclined to violence as a way to settle personal disputes are so incompetent at it.

-jcr

[GILMORE]

WHO THE FUCK YOU CALLIN INCONTINENT MOTHERFUCKER

[Hyperion]

You know, the one question you have to ask is, where's this womans pants at? I mean if you're going to get into a cat fight in a crowded fast food place, shouldn't you bring your pants?

[GILMORE]

You apparently don't even know the basics of fast-food combat tactics:

Rule#1 = take your pants off
Rule#2 = shout incoherently
Rule#3 = attack everything at random

[Sevo]

..."I mean if you're going to get into a cat fight in a crowded fast food place, shouldn't you bring your pants?"

Now that you mention it, I'd say you're right. I'd never really given it a lot of thought, but I'll keep that in mind now.

[guy in the back row]

ROOSTER!

Not sure of the meaning of the word as it's being used in that video.

[GILMORE]

in all seriousness = it should not seem odd at all.

Who gets in stupid fights? stupid people.

What are stupid people good at? being stupid. which usually involves a lot of uncoordinated flailing and biting.

The idea that dumbasses rolling around on the waffle house floor may have potentially considered spending a decade or so studying Krav Maga in preparation for the event is, to say the least, extremely odd.

[Suthenboy]

It is not odd JCR. They are creatures of emotion and acting them out physically. Zero discipline. Zero thought. And of course, zero training.

[Sidd Finch]

This is such an ignorant, culturally insensitive comment. Nobody orders the hamburgers at Waffle House.

[GILMORE]

Indeed - Touch

[Suthenboy]

Also, note that when you load that video there are countless others in the sidebar.

[GILMORE]

Tashiyya, thy name is Legion.

[SusanM]

Thank you for ruining thongs for me...

[Monty Crisco]

That actually was a damn good link... thanks for the breakfast, Gilmore - I always like eating at McDonald's!

[Acosmist]

The fact that it is real gonna make you reconsider American? No?

Why not?

[Suthenboy]

No, it wont because this is a problem with culture and politics, not race. American is unable to make that distinction. Simpletons like him are only able to see caricatures.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Um...no.

[GILMORE]

"Acosmist|11.21.13 @ 7:42PM|#

The fact that it is real gonna make you reconsider American? No?

Why not?

because "American" is an idiotic piece of shit for whom racism is its sole raison d'?tre?

One can deplore/mock/deride shitty behaviors by any group without extending it into a silly basis for making grand pronouncements about the necessity to impose a racist POV onto every element of human life.

This is just a belabored way of saying he's a fucking douchebag.

[GILMORE]

*a footnote =

I genuinely despise the fact that motherfucker calls himself "American" at all

because what the world really needs is people screaming about That Racist American scumbag

[anarch]

Know what else is not restricted to the middle east?

[Swiss Servator, kirsch anyone?]

Good kebobs?

[anarch]

Watch yer language. This is a family blog.

[playa manhattan]

This is the new professionalism.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Wow, I bet Frederick Douglass would be so proud!

[Suthenboy]

Ten bucks to a hole in a doughnut none of the people involved in this story have a clue who that is.

[GILMORE]

hed be all like "aw naw she dih-aant"!?

[Eduard van Haalen]

I'm reading the memoir of Solomon Northrup - you know, the memoir they made a movie out of* - and I've gotten to the point where he strikes back at his wicked master and then his very life hangs in the balance as the white people debate whether he should live or be killed:

"Hope died within my heart. Surely my time had come. I should never behold the light of another day - never behold the faces of my children - the sweet anticipation I had cherished with such fondness. I should that hour struggle through the fearful agonies of death! None would mourn for me - none revenge me. Soon my form would be mouldering in that distant soil, or, perhaps, be cast to the slimy reptiles that filed the stagnant waters of the bayou! Tears flowed down my cheeks, but they only afforded a subject of insulting comment for my executioners." (Solomon Northrup, *12 Years a Slave,* Penguin Edition of 2013 based on the Derby and Miller edition of 1853, 73).

SPOILER: He survives.

Or as the aptly-named Officer Gross might have put it: "Then this bitch disrespected my daughter, and of course I had to smack her around, lol! I can't imagine anything more unjust!"

*12 Years A Slave, available in theaters everywhere!

[Sidd Finch]

You are aware that Northrup didn't write that, right?

[Eduard van Haalen]

Are you alluding to David Wilson, Northrup's coauthor or perhaps ghost?

[Sidd Finch]

Perhaps? I don't think there's any controversy about this.

[Eduard van Haalen]

If Wilson wanted his name on the cover, he should have had *himself* enslaved.

[GILMORE]

I know a club in NY where you can do that, but only by the hour.

[Swiss Servator, kirsch anyone?]

Dude... you are on, like, a week long roll. MOAR PLEEZE.

[GILMORE]

""MOAR PLEEZE.""

yeah, they do make you say that. Like, a lot. Even though you totally don't mean it.

Totally unrelated, I just looked up an older S&M restaurant that used to be on 23rd street...

Very funny note on their address listing =

La Maison de Sade
206 West 23rd Street, NYC
This S&M supper club is closed.
A sandwich shop is in its place.

That would be great if I went in and was like,
"ehm, ok, yeah, Pastrami on Rye with mustard and tie me up and whip my ass."
"What?"
"ok, fine, just the sandwich"

[SusanM]

The Vault was the only true SM club. There is Paddles, now, but a mere shadow of TV.

[scape]

1950's: My dad can beat up your dad!
1980's: My mom can beat up your mom!
2010's: My moms can beat up you!

[Francisco d Anconia]

Guess who?

[Almanian!]

Does it rhyme with "merkin", but is less useful?

[Alice Bowie]

Hey !!!

Somebody had to show up to the school and show these bitches "whats up"

[GILMORE]

You're ugly and you have no friends and no one cares what you say

[Sevo]

Cold, man. But you may be on to something...

[Alice Bowie]

I am rather ugly. Specifically, I'm a short, bald, funny-looking middle age troll.

I have many many many friends.

And many people care (positively or negatively) of what I say.

I've even get the occasion rise out of my usual suspects on this site.

[Hyperion]

I have many many many friends

Well, David Cooper, the friends that no one else can see but you, those don't count.

[GILMORE]

Yeah?

Tell your mom.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Maybe I can wash off that depressing story with this one.

"The Alabama Board of Pardons and Paroles voted unanimously Thursday morning to pardon three of the Scottsboro Boys, nine black teenagers falsely accused of raping two white women on a train in 1931.

"The board granted full and unconditional pardons to Haywood Patterson, Charlie Weems and Andy Wright after a short hearing....

""This decision will give them a final peace in their graves, wherever they are," said Sheila Washington, director of the Scottsboro Museum and Cultural Center in Scottsboro, who helped initiate the petition.

"Patterson, Weems and Wright, along with defendant Clarence Norris, were convicted on rape charges in 1937, after a six-year ordeal that included three trials, the recantation of one of the accusers and two landmark U.S. Supreme Court decisions on legal representation and the racial make-up of jury pools....

"Last spring, the Alabama Legislature unanimously passed a law allowing the granting of posthumous pardons for convictions at least 80 years old, a law specifically designed to allow the pardon of the Scottsboro Boys to go forward."

http://www.montgomeryadvertise.....sboro-Boys

[Suthenboy]

"This decision will give them a final peace in their graves, wherever they are,"

No, it wont. Dead is dead. This is just people consoling themselves. Those guys lives were ruined and there is no taking that back.

Of course, the guilty parties are gone as well, so nothing we can do about it.

[Eduard van Haalen]

I'm not endorsing Ms. Washington's views, just quoted the part about her helping get the process started.

[Suthenboy]

I understood and I was not disagreeing with you. I agree that it is a bit of a brighter story than we usually hear, but I am not sure the intentions behind it are as noble as they would have us believe.

[Michael S. Langston]

I agree with you - there is nothing noble about asking someone for forgiveness, or trying to forgive someone, for acts which caused harm to others.

IE - if I drop by your place and steal all your nice electronics - seeking your neighbor's forgiveness, or allowing the government to forgive that transgression removes that right from the person who deserves it - in this hypothetical case - you.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Interesting that Butler, the lone justice to dissent in Buck v. Bell, dissented against the opinion of the Court in Powell v. Alabama finding that the Scotsboro boys due process rights were violated.

[Eduard van Haalen]

So I guess you just refuted, um, all those socons who said justice butler was right about everything?

He also voted against several New Deal progtams, incidentally. Hes actually more famous for that than for his buck v. Bell dissent.

[John C. Randolph]

A pardon is forgiveness for a guilty person. The state of alabama should not pardon these men, it should EXONERATE them, and admit that their convictions were false.

-jcr

[JidaKida]

Its PUNK cops Like this I just LOVE to hear about in the news getting Clipped in the line of duty.

http://www.Anon-It.tk

[Sevo]

Related:
SF's gov't is a laughing stock, but the PD seems to be run pretty well; no dog-shooting, no beating people taking photos, etc. But there was a case this week that looked like the cops were being copish.
So the boss says 'Let's put cameras on the cops'. I think he's on to something.
"S.F. police seek cameras to capture whole picture"
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/.....997404.php

[Gojira]

I'm at a loss for words. A cop who actually wants to do the right thing. I can't even angry up my blood about a quarter mil federal grant, considering what it's going towards.

Police Chief Greg Suhr has an interesting response. He wants more video - he wants his officers to wear cameras.

He's about to get his wish. In two weeks, with the help of a $250,000 federal grant, the Police Department will begin equipping some officers with wearable cameras in a pilot program.

Initially the small, cigar-shaped cameras will be issued to 50 plainclothes officers who execute search warrants and parole checks and who might enter people's homes. The idea is to blunt suggestions that officers aren't identifying themselves properly when they knock on doors.

[sarcasmic]

98% of cops give ones like Chief Suhr a bad name.

[Suthenboy]

"98% of cops give ones like Chief Suhr a bad name."

That is true. However, maybe now guys like this, some of the 2%, can start doing something about it in a meaningful way.

[Sevo]

"The idea is to blunt suggestions that officers aren't identifying themselves properly when they knock on doors."

It might also blunt the temptation to do so.

[Swiss Servator, kirsch anyone?]

^^THIS^^

[Michael S. Langston]

A good plus to be sure, but I would think most LEO abuse is the normal kind which doesn't escalate too far. & even if the abused knew they might be able to get a hold of the LEO camera, asking for it is likely to bring more pain than proving any abuse would solve.

Not that this means it's a bad idea - the videos should just be easily accessible and some automatic review policy for abuse complaints where the complainer is shielded to some degree.

Additionally, the police departments and LEO agencies that likely need this the most, simply won't get them any time soon (though citizens should push for them) and those agencies willing to use them today, likely have good organizations, so their willingness to use them is directly tied to their confidence in their LEO entity.

But either way - it's still a good thing. A great thing even. Just not sure if it changes much with the current state of thinking in society today.

[Sevo]

Oh, and:
"I can't even angry up my blood about a quarter mil federal grant, considering what it's going towards."
He sorta has to go outside; the city gov't is too tapped-out paying all the 'non-profit workers' who happen to work the campaigns during elections.

[Generic Stranger]

I can't even angry up my blood about a quarter mil federal grant, considering what it's going towards.

Yup; much better than what military grants to police forces usually go towards.

[PapayaSF]

SF's gov't is a laughing stock, but the PD seems to be run pretty well

Don't forget Fajitagate. Granted, they were off-duty, but still.

[Snark Plissken]

So this 'cop' had a 16 yr old daughter who couldn't handle fighting a girl 2 years younger than herself? Maybe she should stick to beating up 12 yr olds.

[Hyperion]

If she's like most cops, her concept of a fair fight is her and 5 of her armed friends beating up an unarmed elderly blind woman.

[Swiss Servator, kirsch anyone?]

STOP RESISTING!!!

[Hyperion]

"I hear her girlfriend say 'They jumpin' Tashiyya, they jumpin' Tashiyya!'

Would it be racist if I said that's some most excellent butchery of the English language?

I just be axing.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

-Collegiate engineering education may foster a "culture of disengagement" regarding issues of public welfare, according to new research by a sociologist at Rice University.

For the first-of-its-kind study, the researcher used survey data from four U.S. colleges to examine how students' public-welfare beliefs change during their college engineering education and whether the curricular emphases of their engineering programs are related to students' beliefs about public welfare. The study found that engineering students leave college less concerned about public welfare than when they entered.

http://news.rice.edu/2013/11/2.....st-says-2/

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Sounds like some sociology major wants to get even with the guys who busted the curve in statistics class.

[Sidd Finch]

"There seems to be very little time or space in engineering curricula for nontechnical conversations about how particular designs may reproduce inequality ? for example, debating whether to make a computer faster, more technologically savvy and expensive versus making it less sophisticated and more accessible for customers."

I want to murder this person.

[Sevo]

I'm sure that guy would be well pleased if the class project was designing Harrison Bergeron's wieghts.

[SweatingGin]

for example, debating whether to make a computer faster

Holy shit.

How the fuck did this idea make it past the early 90's?

[Irish]

Translation: "I'm a moron that can't use anything more complex than a Commodore 64. People should purposefully dumb down machines so that mental incompetents don't have to feel bad about themselves."

[Snark Plissken]

Except that she has a degree in EE see my link below. I think it's more about getting a nice cushy 'research' position pontificating about inequality.

[Snark Plissken]

Inerestingly, she has a bs in EE and sociology. Nowadays she specializes in victimology.

First, she examines what she calls the "self-expressive edge" of occupational sex segregation: how the seemingly voluntary and self-expressive?yet culturally and structurally informed?decisions of men and women reproduce occupational sex segregation. Second, she uses quantitative and qualitative approaches to examine inequality in science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) professions?specifically, the recruitment and retention of women, Native Americans, and LGBT individuals, and the role of professional cultures in this inequality. Finally, she studies how cultural understandings of the extent and origin of inequality helps to uphold unequal social structures.

I saw some serious inequality when I was getting my EE degree. Any female that managed to graduate, regardless of GPA, was guaranteed a well paying job, despite the dismal market at the time. In fact, one girl I knew was hired directly after doing a co-op in her second year of EE, which was lucky for her because there was no way she was going to make it all the way through.

[PapayaSF]

Sometimes I think the public welfare would improve if there were fewer people worrying about public welfare and trying to "fix" things.

[Michael S. Langston]

Yeah - it could well be that pushing people into degrees and industries which focus on strong provable facts, leads people to know welfare is self defeating, and focusing on diversity or inequality might be great conversation, but doesn't solve the problems these graduates will ostensibly be paid to solve.

Though many engineers/scientists seem to be statists - their need to control processes projected maybe?

Irregardless, this is just another example of using data to "prove" an already firmly held belief.

Just like Obamacare... is it failing, sure. Do most seem to want to find out why? Nope - they just need to know it's not that fault of those who they don't think should be blamed - therefore, all data points to obstructionist opposition.

Here? Engineers don't care about the things they think everyone should care about - checking over the data - it must be the patriarchy to blame, because it certainly cannot be they learned things which correctly informed their opinions.

Nope - their college years were worthless. The writer's college years though were correct.

Next up - 5 year engineering degrees now 6 - extra year for diversity, sociology, and feminist studies.

I mean if you cannot be allowed to know what insurance policy to purchase, how can you possibly be allowed to know what classes in college may best help you with your chosen profession?

[Flat Fifth]

Engineering students don't engage in emotional circle jerks? Clearly, this is a problem.

[Irish]

Great National Journal piece on Obama's use of a taxpayer funded government photographer who is paid to flood the market with pro-Obama propaganda. Apparently Obama will bar media photographers from major events so that EVERY PICTURE that comes out of those events is from a photographer whose only job is to make Obama look good. A New York Times photographer is quoted explicitly comparing it to Stalin.

Note: It also shows that Jay Carney is an asshole behind closed doors too.

Again, this is propaganda ? utterly lacking a skeptical eye. The irony is that Obama is using technology that democratized and flattened the media to centralize and strengthen the powers an institution, The Presidency.

That was the sentiment behind Mills' crack about Tass, according to people who attended the Oct. 29 meeting. Carney took offense.

"Oh, so now we're like Stalin?" the White House press secretary replied, laughing at the veteran New York Times photographer.

Olivier Knox, a Yahoo reporter and long-time White House correspondent who attended the meeting with Mills, shot an angry look at Carney and said, "It's not funny, Jay."

It's becoming more and more obvious that everyone hates Jay Carney.

[Episiarch]

It's becoming more and more obvious that Obama is a malignant narcissistic megalomaniac piece of shit who controls every aspect of his interaction with the media more than the head of Scientology.

This is why I laugh out loud when I see utterly delusional posts from Obama worshippers who claim that Obama is the most down-to-earth president ever.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

-Obama worshippers who claim that Obama is the most down-to-earth president ever

Because nothing says 'down to earth' than a man whose favorite and best interaction with others is to head up Nuremberg style and level speaking events.

[PapayaSF]

Nothing says "sincerity" and "man of the people" like a speech read off a teleprompter.

[Hyperion]

Speaking of Obama worshippers who just can't give it up, check this out. Warning, New Republic derp ahead:

Everyone hates Obamacare, but there's good news!

[Ted S.]

The author just saved 15% on his insurance by switching to Geico?

[Pro Libertate]

No, no, he's likable and talks down to us friendly-like.

[Sevo]

..."EVERY PICTURE that comes out of those events is from a photographer whose only job is to make Obama look good."...

Ever notice how often the pose has some sort of circle behind his head? Sort of like a 'halo', wouldn't you say?
Wonder if he lounges on the bed selecting the images for release.

[Hyperion]

The thing thatI have always found disturbing about Obamas photos is that in so many of them, it's like he's looking straight up at the sky for something. What the fuck is that all about? Is he expecting the angels to come down and take him up to the mothership with rest of the saints?

[Sevo]

He's the class unctuous twit.
He got decent grades; anyone with any sense knew he was faking it. But he never got caught fucking up or checking his notes.
You just waited for him to step in the dog shit while he was checking out his profile in the window.
Sooner or later, he did.

[PapayaSF]

I suspect affirmative action is partly to blame for feeding that attitude.

[Pro Libertate]

It's very Mussolini. You'd think someone would point that out publicly.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

-so that EVERY PICTURE that comes out of those events is from a photographer whose only job is to make Obama look good

Are they sure about this, because his pictures all show Obama having grotesquely jug like ears.

[Suthenboy]

"Hey Jay, you sniveling twit, if you dont like being compared to Stalin, stop acting like him. Oh, and wipe you nose, there is something brown on the tip."

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Posted in the PM links, but as others have pointed out it makes you wonder how many derp-tastic photos Obama would make. There never seemed to be a shortage of photos that made Bush look stupid, which I concede is not that hard.

[Hyperion]

It's becoming more and more obvious that everyone hates Jay Carney.

I thought that once upon a time, people liked Opie Doodey.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Why of course that's what happened.
Jose Canseco pulled over with goats wearing diapers in the back of his car

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....z2lKqF1rV9
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Swiss Servator, kirsch anyone?]

Wait...what?!

[SweatingGin]

His Twitter can be awesome

[SweatingGin]

Easy explanation.

Yes everyone my girlfriend Leila &I @ModelLeila bought fainting goats& they were in the car w/diapers so they don't piss and shit everywhere

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Richmond, CA uses eminent domain to stop foreclosures

Ever since Richmond unveiled its groundbreaking proposal to seize distressed mortgages from banks in order to help keep residents from losing their homes to foreclosure, powerful outside interests have waged war on the city. Big banks and Wall Street investment firms have sued Richmond, claiming that its plan is illegal. Housing agencies have threatened to freeze loans and force the East Bay city of 100,000 people into another recession. And real estate interests have attacked the Bay Area investment firm ? Mortgage Resolution Partners (MRP) ? that has been working with the city on its anti-foreclosure plan.

And then earlier this fall, glossy mailers blanketed Richmond as part of a smear campaign against the city's proposal. "Wall Street is back to take another bite" out of your home, the mailers warned. "The Council's heart is in the right place ? they are trying to help Richmond homeowners struggling to save their homes, but they've bought a risky plan that could seriously harm the value of your home."

Seizing private property: for the greater good!

[Sevo]

They've been rattling that saber for several months. Pretty sure at least one of the council members has pointed out that it stands a good chance of being thrown out in the first court challenge, not to mention the chill it's going to put on any new mortgages.
I didn't see anything in the article you linked, but most of the sob-stories in the Chron have featured people who have owned their homes for a loooong time, and now find themselves upside down.
Takes one or two seconds to realize they were bought at what are now very low prices and re-fi'd until the pig squealed. And now Mr. or Ms. 'I spent it on stuff' wants a bail-out.

[Suthenboy]

Any minute now the wife is going to drag me off to bed, so I will bang this out quickly.

It is glaringly obvious that the vast majority of posters here, and the writers, are not only educated people, but intelligent as well. Given that many are not exactly spring chickens, there is a healthy dose of wisdom here as well. These are the people who treasure Liberty, people who understand and appreciate the principles upon which liberty rests.

The first thing I noticed when traveling outside the US to very uncivilized places was that the gradient between the educated, civilized people and the not so much was much steeper. That madeit much easier to make this observation. The more uncivilized people are the less they think about things. The less discipline they have. The less rational thought they engage in. Their lives are governed by ritual and tradition, and most of all by impulsiveness.

[Suthenboy]

Reading this article and watching the video Eduard linked to, seeing how many others there are like it, and watching the slowly collapsing economy and spread of socialist policies makes me wonder.

There is little hope of convincing people like that to support liberty and not run to the first guy offering an obamaphone. They have no idea what it means to make your own decisions, and having to live with the consequences of making bad ones is unthinkable to them.

How much hope do we really have of spreading the idea of liberty, of having people believe firmly enough in it to fight and make personal sacrifices for it? How much hope, realistically?

[Hyperion]

They have no idea what it means to make your own decisions, and having to live with the consequences of making bad ones is unthinkable to them.

You can thank the Dems, and their spineless counterparts on the other team. It didn't have to be like this. These people could have jobs, ambitions, pride, and a sense of worth. But thanks to the aforementioned parties, now all of us have to pay a high price for their damn foolishness.

[Mad Scientist]

I don't blame the Dems for that. People CHOOSE to give in to bullshit, and then they CHOOSE to perpetuate it. These people gladly create their own misery. All the Dems and the spineless Repubs do is make that choice easier.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Wait - I had a video?

[Suthenboy]

Ooops. Gilmore did. I didnt scroll up far enough.

[SweatingGin]

Suthen, don't despair too much.

We're probably finishing out this downswing of liberty.

Technology is making liberty possible, no matter what the powers-that-be try to impose.

3d printing makes gun control impossible. Cryptography makes censorship impossible. Crypto-Currency makes restrictions on freedom of association impossible.

Technology is making the state obsolete. The people chasing after the latest demagogue will have to adapt to a new world.

Technology is leaving us able to go Galt.

The firmer that the powers-that-be squeeze, the more people who will opt out. Some of them will discover liberty, and some of them will be willing to go to the barricades... or the gulch, as it were.

[Francisco d Anconia]

The firmer that the powers-that-be squeeze, the more people who will opt out. Some of them will discover liberty, and some of them will be willing to go to the barricades... or the gulch, as it were.

Something like this?

[SweatingGin]

Yes, that is what popped into my head.

[Hyperion]

I like to think like this, when I'm not in a totally cynical and pessimistic mood.

But the way I see it is that while government is slow, sluggish, clumsy, slow to react, and not the sharpest tool in the shed, indivividuals are versatile, quick, and often very intelligent and cunning.

And I see the way forward in bringing them down to size, is just to overwhelm them with their own desire to control everything. So we just innovate so quickly that they go into an overwhelmed death spiral. It's sort of like dealing them with a death of 1000 cuts, which they will willingly walk right into.

It's already happening, look at Ocare, it's a total clusterfuck. They just can't wait to take on too much, so let's give it to them.

They don't like plastic guns? They don't like designer drugs? They don't like encryption? they don't like alternative currency? Let's give them 1000 more things that they don't like and watch them implode trying to take it all on.

[SweatingGin]

The best part is, the innovation will *accelerate*

Look at the the entrepreneurship around 3d printing and cryptocurrencies -- it's huge.

One of those two takes off a little, and you've got massively more innovation, still.

And then you start getting progressives arguing "we have to control the rate of innovation."

And that's a battle that can be won. If it can't, the luddites that can't be convinces will make themselves irrelevant in luddite enclaves.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I try to stay positive, but if the economy collapses, there will be little if any innovation.

[Michael S. Langston]

Agreed - we got to all this level of innovation is a mostly free market with mostly good economic times.

Start destroying freedom and the economy and I honestly don't know where new medicines and such would be invented.

If not here - where?

& while I like to stay positive too - I think the deeper issue isn't with just O-care and the cult around him, but with thinking in and of itself. Too many people strongly believe too many stupid myths - many of which have been pushed for decades.

But if the thinking is the problem, then the solution won't be soon (unless we see real collapse soon - a major crisis could change things, but I think that's unlikely given we have enough economic power, and citizen stupidity, to continue this crap for some time).

[Hyperion]

Any minute now the wife is going to drag me off to bed, so I will bang this out quickly

I typically save the banging until 'after' the wife drags me off to bed, but everyone has their own style...

[Suthenboy]

Hey, I do my banging anywhere I please..couch...table...floor... and I take as long as it suits me.

That is how you avoid sleeping on the wet spot.

[Hyperion]

I'm old, man, the table thing isn't so comfy these days.

[SweatingGin]

Hyperion|11.21.13 @ 8:33PM|#|?|filternamelinkcustom

You know, the one question you have to ask is, where's this womans pants at? I mean if you're going to get into a cat fight in a crowded fast food place, shouldn't you bring your pants?

P-Brooks'ing it.

You need to go to the Randy Marsh School of Fighting.

"I thought this was America! Isn't this America!?!?"

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Video: An underwater volcano erupts and forms a new island

An exploding underwater volcano is causing a new island to form in the Pacific Ocean about 620 miles south of Tokyo, and you can watch a bit of its dramatic rise in the video above.
The video, showing thick plumes of steam and ash shooting out of the new volcanic island, was captured this week by the Japan Coast Guard. The new island -- really more of an islet -- is just 600 feet in diameter, according to an Associated Press report. And it is unclear whether it is here to stay.
"Most of the time islands like this have very short lives because they are built of ash and larger rock particles that get eroded by wave action," Bruce Houghton, a professor of volcanology at the University of Hawaii, told the Los Angeles Times.
However, there is a chance that the new island could stick around. Those massive plumes of steam and ash are caused by sea water interacting with magma. But if the island gets large enough, the sea water will be pushed away from the magma, allowing it to pour out more passively over the island, covering it in a potentially more stable skin that is less susceptible to wave action.

I call dibs. A perfect place to build my volcano layer.

[Suthenboy]

Layer? Lair?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

My lair will be layered on the volcano island.

[Hyperion]

Libertopia at last! How soon can someone get there and put up our flag?

[Hyperion]

Whoever does it gets first term at Supreme Overlord.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Meh, Global warming will ensure it's back under water soon enough.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I'll obviously have to turn off my global warming Weather Machine and come up with a new plan.

[Hyperion]

You didn't build that global warming machine!

[Sevo]

Francisco d Anconia|11.21.13 @ 9:25PM|#
"Meh, Global warming will ensure it's back under water soon enough."

So we can demand reparations!

[playa manhattan]

There is another islet in the South Pacific that has done this. Several times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4LaM8iUc28

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

Who wants a McRib?: the psychoanalytic "symptom" of McDonald's incredible industrialized processes, the recurring stain or tear that can't be contained by the mechanics of desire mobilizing fast food: "McDonald's sells what it does not sell: the conditions of predictability, affordability, and chemico-machinic automated cookery that make its very business viable. When we eat at McDonald's we don't eat its food -- Quarter Pounders or Big Macs or what have you -- so much as we consume the mechanical predictability of its overall offering."

[Eduard van Haalen]

I bet whoever wrote that is considered a genius in France.

[Michael S. Langston]

I'm not reading the whole thing as it likely is stupid given this is an elementary idea and he failed at it....

But in general, the write is correct that at least part of the reason for McD's success is its consistency - mostly BigMacs in CA, flyover states, and NY - costs roughly the same, is mostly served in the same way, mostly tastes the same, etc/etc/etc.

Of course like all of life - it's not way one good, other way bad, but really more that almost everything is hybrid and each way (consistency versus franchise owners doing what they want) has its tradeoffs.

As even McD's has diversity internationally with different food selections in various countries.

But again - consistency is only a "part" of it - as if McD's was selling only cow pies in happy meals in every store, even if for only a buck - the consistency of pricing or cow pie integrity wouldn't likely keep the doors open (though given the current levels of critical thinking - if the "right" people ran it, many would still buy willingly, and if not enough did, a large group would ask for government support to keep 'em open).

[Irish]

I posted that a week ago and am deeply upset that you didn't quote the best paragraph:

Sometimes the things we believe aren't out there in plain view, but hidden away inside. The French psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan gives the name objet a to the thing that elicits desire. In French the phrase means "object other" (the a stands for autre). For Lacan, our behaviors themselves may be knowable, but the causes of those behaviors aren't always so. Objet a is not the object of desire (the thing we desire), but the thing that causes the desire to come into being (the cause of a desire for that thing). The philosopher Slavoj ?i?ek sometimes calls objet a the stain or defect in the world that motivates a belief or action.

Lacan and Zizek in a single paragraph. That's a lot of pretentious bullshit.

[Michael S. Langston]

Pretentious?

The idea there seems to have some merit... in that being really successful in the US you might desire a 300K car - but being really successful in Zimbabwe the objects you'll desire will be different.

Or women - sure, men find certain women attractive, but that is an adjustable scale depending upon availability and such (and same with women seeking men of course).

Which in the end seems to imply that human desire remains relatively stable over time (individually), even if the specific object desired would change based upon environmental circumstances.

Additionally - I firmly agree with their idea that most people don't know the reasons they desire any given thing - this is where projection and all that comes in - when a human cannot figure out why they're on the side that they're on, their brain is experiencing cognitive dissonance because reality isn't matching their beliefs, and they revert into meaningless arguments, ad hominem, etc, etc.

I mean when you look around and see the failure that is O-care - what would your brain do if while you're seeing all that, you still tried to keep the idea of Obama as (living) Patron Saint of Everything?

Sorry for the novel... but TBC:

[Michael S. Langston]

CONT'D:

Or better example - see how crappy parents act when they learn their children are criminals, all while they simultaneously try to hold onto the belief that the kids are still perfect little angels (Martin?) - in many cases, even after multiple convictions.

& just like O-care cultist, this parent will not discuss facts of the case, but the system, LEOs, COs, etc, etc, etc - and even when those facts are true (eg sentencing disparities thanks to WOD), are all ways to support that guy they just know is good at heart, while safely circumventing any uncomfortable feelings which may come from a more deliberate examination of the underlying facts.

Not to mention parents' ingrained inventive to not want to see those they raised as "failures" as to avoid any possibility of taking *responsibility for their part.

*SLD: by taking responsibility I mean morally - the only ones required to take responsibility for their crimes should be the ones who commit them - not the parents nor even gun manufacturers should be blamed.

[Michael S. Langston]

Sentence above *SLD... should be "ingrained incentive" not "ingrained inventive"... and I'm sure others 🙂

[Sevo]

Nonsense on stilts. If I translate from 'self-absorbed' correctly, it seems a grip that a Big Mac tastes like a Big Mac most anywhere.
I don't like 'em, but Micky D's fries win blind tastings every time they're entered.

[Michael S. Langston]

They use (or did) beef flavoring - I only knew this because a decade or so ago they lost a lawsuit with vegetarians and vegans types for stating their fries can be a vegetarian meal.

Of course if you care so much about your food choice to go to the extent as to limit all meat - I personally think you would also shy way from McD's in general - additionally I don't think McD's ever openly sold fries as a vegetarian meal and don't see beef flavoring (maybe it's made with real beef stuff?) as anti-vegetarian - but the lawsuit happened and at least before appeals McD's lost.

[Archduke von Pantsfan]

World Cup 2014: A guide to the 32 teams dreaming of glory in Brazil

[Francisco d Anconia]

I don't follow baseball.

[Ted S.]

The draw I'd like to see:

Belgium, US, Bosnia, Algeria

The draw the US is probably going to get:

England, Spain, US, Ghana.

[Hyperion]

I'll take Brazil on that one, they're going to be very hard to beat.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Science: Men with attractive wives report high levels of marital satisfaction

In the study, which was recently published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, psychologist Andrea Meltzer tracked over 450 newlywed couples during the course of four years and posed the question: does a good-looking spouse lead to a more satisfying union?

What Meltzer and her team discovered was that spousal attractiveness does play a major role in marital satisfaction -- but only for men. In other words, men care about looks more than women do.

The authors write, "The significant effect of wives' attractiveness on husbands' satisfaction was significantly stronger than the nonsignificant effect of husbands' attractiveness on wives' satisfaction, indicating that partner physical attractiveness played a larger role in predicting husbands' marital satisfaction than it did in predicting wives' marital satisfaction."

Interestingly, the attractive wives also reported higher levels of satisfaction, all because having a happy hubby made them happier too.

Researchers theorized that men who felt they "lucked out" by marrying attractive wives were happier and more likely to care about their wives' needs -- and in turn, the good-looking wives were happier in the relationship as well.

Guess I'll have to marry a hot woman.

[Sevo]

..."In other words, men care about looks more than women do."...

Corrected:
"Men care more about *their spouses'* looks than women do"
If the uncorrected statement was correct, men would shop for clothes more than women.

[Eduard van Haalen]

You know how, before einstein, the human race was simply in the dark about certain fundamental features of the univrrse? Well, this study markd a similar kuhnian paradigm shift. Before this study, we really didnt know if men liked having hot wives. The common belief was that just picked an igly person at random. Now weve gotten beyond this Newtonian misconception and entered an Einsteinian era of scientific enlightenment!

[playa manhattan]

Just an anecdote, but I'm really happy.

[Suthenboy]

I am calling bullshit. That is far from the most important factor.

Looks wear off fairly quickly and even if they dont, age takes care of that. Sanity and having moderately mutual interests are teh most important factors.

If you want hell, marry a super hot crazy woman.

[playa manhattan]

Oh, it's certainly not the most important factor, but it can go a long way in building a happy life together.

By the time my wife's looks are gone, I'll probably look old as fuck too and have no sex drive, but it won't matter at all. We will be worrying about retirement and grandkids etc.

[playa manhattan]

That said, I wouldn't have married someone that wasn't also my best friend.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Marry your equal. Someone who can't walk all over you and won't allow you to walk all over her. And your intellectual equal, because if you can't engage each other in meaningful conversation, all the hot sex in the world won't save your marriage.

As a friend of mine once said, "No matter how hot da bitch is, there is always someone who's tired of hitting it."

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Marry your equal. Someone who can't walk all over you and won't allow you to walk all over her.

That's what my dad tells me and having that standard makes the whole thing seem rather daunting.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Just wait. You'll bump into her eventually.

A lot of people rush into it because they feel pressure to get married, and they settle.

Fuck that. Have fun being single until it happens on its own. My wife's no beauty queen, but she's the best woman I've ever met. Wouldn't trade her for 10 supermodels.

[playa manhattan]

You've never mentioned it, but do you have kids?

One thing I will say is that kids put a big strain on things...

[Francisco d Anconia]

Nope. She talked me out of em.

[Francisco d Anconia]

What's your story playa? Wife? Kids?

[playa manhattan]

Yep. Wife and 2 boys, 5 and 2.

[playa manhattan]

Child rearing is the only thing my wife and I don't see eye to eye on.

[Francisco d Anconia]

How so?

[playa manhattan]

I turned out well because I had great parents. I pushed the limits every chance I got, and got called on my bullshit every time.

My wife turned out well in spite of having shitty parents. Her mom is one of the most selfish people I know, has been married 5 times, and left her kids to pretty much raise themselves.

When one of our kids is crying or unhappy with her, she assumes that she has done some wrong. When one of our kids is crying or unhappy with me, I KNOW I have done something right.

[Michael S. Langston]

My wife turned out well in spite of having shitty parents.

Good for her - as it's not about the cards dealt, but how you play them and so many people so desperately want their parents on a pedestal they don't allow themselves even the slightest hint that their parents may have made mistakes.

After all - when you're the coolest bestest person ever - how could your parents have done anything wrong? 🙂

[Francisco d Anconia]

That doesn't sound like anything that can't be overcome. Just talk about it.

Night.

[playa manhattan]

Daunting? Somebody thinks pretty highly of himself...

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Or maybe I have such a low opinion of myself that I wouldn't associate with, much less marry a person who could tolerate the likes of me.

[Mad Scientist]

Guess I'll have to marry a hot woman.

If I know what's good for me, I will submit that I already have.

[Michael S. Langston]

Researchers theorized that men who felt they "lucked out" by marrying attractive wives above what they feel they deserve were happier and more likely to care about their wives' needs...

Fixed: As sure, men are generally happier with attractive wives - but this may have something to do with society at large who grade men partially on the attractiveness of their significant others.

Aside from that - was research really necessary here? I mean this seem self evident and the same is likey true for women - when they feel they married someone they feel is better than they are, they likely do more to actively work on the relationship which usually results in increased satisfaction.

Which is why being grateful for what you have is so important in life.

As just as men are measured in broader society by their spouse, so are women are partially graded by others based upon their SO's job earnings...

But that doesn't fit the narrative does it? The narrative which is "women care about the right things and men are just pigs" or "women cheat because men ignore/abuse/etc whereas men cheat to f**k around" or "women cannot be abusive due to power disparities" or.... well, you pick the next one - tons of myths believed - none real.

Bad thinking makes bad law....

[Irish]

So Rich Lowry from National Review (!) was on Fox and Friends (!!) with Feministing's (!?!?!?!) Zerlina Maxwell. It was the normal amount of crazy you'd expect from a Buckleyite conservative, the total creeps on Fox and Friends, and a member of Feministing...but then this happened.

Lowry: What is very likely going to happen is you're only getting older and sicker people signing up for the exchanges which means that the insurance premiums are going to spike.

Zerlina Maxwell: (babbles some crazy bullshit) I think that the idea that people won't sign up for the exchanges is very gendered.

What. The look on Lowry's face when she says that is one of the greatest things I've ever seen.

[Rebekah]

Women don't have the option not to go to the doctor.

I'm a young woman, and I haven't been to a doctor (except for a tetanus shot after a pellet gun incident) for years, now I learn that not going to the doctor was not an option. Someone explain this to me.

[Flat Fifth]

I'll try to answer that and this is all speculation, mind you. Feminists appear to think that a woman's life revolves around her vagina. Therefore, a woman will constantly be pondering about her vagina, writing about her vagina, and, of course, seeing a doctor as often as possible to make sure her vagina is in tip-top condition.

[playa manhattan]

Vagina doctors make a lot of money.

[Michael S. Langston]

Hail to the V, right?

& what a stupid commercial that is... though before I say more, I must first confess I'm not a woman and haven't even tried to play one before...

But I think that ad implies that women spend a great deal of time obsessing about their vaginas to the point where praise is necessary to deflect any possible bad thoughts which might slip in.

I mean - I saw the first ED commercials with that old guy who was "next in line" - seen tons more sense then - not once has any of them come close to praising the P or D or C or whatever...as a matter of fact, if any did, Jezebel would literally implode from the rage at seeing anyone, anywhere, ever attempt to praise anything remotely close to phallic power.

After all, for that group, even claiming phallic power exists is likely the same thing as stating openly that rape should be legalized.

[Alice Bowie]

Go Tamika ... someone had to show them bitches what's up.

And for all the rest of out there just remember:

"Tawana Told the Truth!!!"

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Watching 'Skyfall' on Netflix. While it's a solid James Bond movie, Archer has kind of spoiled the genre for me.

[playa manhattan]

What did you do with my weather? There were supposed to be "thunderstorms" all day!

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Isn't it supposed to rain overnight and tomorrow?

The weather guy just said another storm comes through next week so that could mean rain on Thanksgiving and my birthday.

[playa manhattan]

Allegedly. My accuweather profile was 100% wrong today. We get maybe 1 thunderstorm every 2 years around here, so I was pretty excited.

[SusanM]

Could you please explain "Archer" for me? I watched a "best of" clip on youtube but all I got out of it is that it beats the same dead horse Sealab 2021 did.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

There's 3 seasons of it on Netflix. It's basically James Bond meets Arrested Development, only Bond is sadistic bastard with a drinking problem and major Oedipal issues because his oversexed mother is his boss.

Unlike Sealab Archer follows a pretty tight continuity and there is actual character development that go with the running gags and callbacks. Plus it's loaded with obscure TV, film, and literature references. It's a great show IMO.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

It is a great show. A "best of" clip is worthless without knowing the characters. It's definitely worth the investment, especially if you're a depraved libertarian (as I assume you are).

[Corning]

Unlike Sealab Archer follows a pretty tight continuity

Almost all the characters aside from Archer have been drastically changed from what they were in the first season.

Pam now compared to Pam in the first episodes is entirely unrecognizable.

[Corning]

all I got out of it is that it beats the same dead horse Sealab 2021 did.

Which is the best entertainment conceived by man.

[AlmightyJB]

So is the police department open to a lawsuit here? Creating an environment were psycho bitch feels free to beat up whomever she would like? If I were that girls mom, I'd go for it.