Washington State Health Exchange Enrollees Get Delayed Sticker Shock

Thousands of Washington State Obamacare enrollees were told by their state-run exchange that they qualified for those subsidies that were supposed to keep insurance rates reasonable. Turns out they were told wrong. Whoops! According to the National Review:

Thousands of Washington State Obamacare enrollees will be informed that the state's health-care exchange underestimated how much they'd have to pay for insurance.

Approximately 8,000 Washingtonians are about to learn that for its first three weeks of operation, Washington Healthplanfinder, the state's exchange, was erroneously sending their monthly incomes to the federal hub, which compiles data from various federal and state agencies to determine applicants' eligibility for Medicaid and premium subsidies.

What, you mean all those people weren't making $3,000 a year? Jeez. How confusing!

Follow this story and more at Reason 24/7.

Spice up your blog or Website with Reason 24/7 news and Reason articles. You can get the widgets here. If you have a story that would be of interest to Reason's readers please let us know by emailing the 24/7 crew at [e-mail], or tweet us stories at @reason247.

Comments

[Acosmist]

It is not "the National Review".

[Kid Xenocles]

The articles are in the magazine, not the title.

[Sevo]

"Washington State Health Exchange Enrollees Get Delayed Sticker Shock"

Any victim of O'care has gotten the same.

[playa manhattan]

Some without the "delayed" part.

[Tman]

Got in to it on FB with a liberal prog friend of a friend over the ACA and as soon I brought up the point that is insanely ridiculous to propose that the best way to LOWER health costs is to "put the government in charge", the conversation ended.

This morning the post was deleted.

Lefties are shitting a brick over this because it exposes the biggest fallacy they have; that putting the government in charge will make something "more affordable".

Delicious.

[fish]

Lefties are shitting a brick over this because it exposes the biggest fallacy they have; that putting the government in charge will make something "more affordable".

Lefty politicians are starting to make number two in brick like shapes too!

Schadentastic!

[CatoTheElder]

It's all the insurance companies' fault. And Big Pharma. And the hospital-industrial complex. And the doctors. Don't get me started!

How dare anyone out their make fun of Barack? After all he's been through?

[CatoTheElder]

Did I forget about George Bush?

[Sevo]

Not to worry, the Dems won't.

[General Butt Naked]

Big Pharma paved your roads!

...bullet cancer

[Irish]

I still love that video. I never even watched the show, but something about Red Foreman telling me about a conspiracy of pharmaceutical companies just makes me smile.

[SweatingGin]

Never watched it either, but I'm using Bullet Cancer.

[Pathogen]

My favorite is the typical proglodyte comeback.. "Health is not a traditional marketplace... would you prefer a cold/hard/ruthless/evil private insurance executive to make these decisions for you?". Obviously, a kind, caring bureaucracy can do it better, cheaper, and with compassion. I wonder how that argument's holding up now...

[Austrian Anarchy]

And when there is a possibility of not going to an insurance executive, a bureaucrat is standing there to make the decision for you. For the greater good, of course.

[Pathogen]

Absolutely, their minds reject the cold, sober reality of what purpose the "death panels" serve, because... the RethugliKKKans and their Teabigot masters just pulled that whole D.P bullshit out of their asses one day, because they just can't stand to see a black man in the whitehouse...

[Sevo]

Pathogen|11.12.13 @ 7:14PM|#
"Absolutely, their minds reject the cold, sober reality of what purpose the "death panels" serve,"

The local rag had an edi-cartoon with an elephant throwing 'death panel' out as a metaphor for the GOP 'ruining' O'care.
They need to get on board; the left is now admitting death panels are part of the deal and hey, they're cool since Canada has them!

[Austrian Anarchy]

What are the odds that this version of the Reichstag fire will be the "capitalists" broke it on purpose?

[Pathogen]

The beauty of it, is their hubris. They would rather go down with the ship, and take everyone with them... at gunpoint, then stop and ask themselves... "was Cruz *actually* right about this glaring, obvious disaster?". It would throw their whole concept of reality into question.... So much for their altruism, pragmatism, and high-minded 'moral imperatives'

[Episiarch]

The beauty of this is that it's a direct, unavoidable refutation everything they have cultishly believed for years because they could just put their fingers in their ears. How do they blame this on anything but government and TOP MEN? Oh, it's just so delicious!

[Austrian Anarchy]

Fir now, they are blaming it on evil corporations that are canceling policies willy-nilly for "profits." When confronted with the real reason why they must cancel to comply with the law, the answer is "they were inferior policies, for profits."

[Austrian Anarchy]

Chang that fir to for, or fur if ye likes.

[Blueman]

Not only will I Chang, I'll Wang Chung tonight.

[Sevo]

..."they were inferior policies, for profits."...

And Bush. Don't forget Bush.

[Pathogen]

BOOOOSH!!?!

[Tman]

My favorite comeback to the "your plan was shit anyways" argument is the boatload of lefties who are coming out of the closet stating that "In fact not only was my previous plan cheaper, but it was WAYYY better than the one I'm being forced in to" who then get pushed aside as an "irrelevant anecdote" as if suddenly their problem is a lie.

They are eating themselves over this and to repeat: IT IS DELICIOUS.

[Episiarch]

It's kind of making me giddy how great this is. We had to sit here watching mass delusion and insane policies put into place, and go "this cannot continue", and yet...it kept going. Somehow. Well, reality has set in and the chickens are coming home to roost.

Man, I'm tired of being right.

[Tman]

I wake up each day with great anticipation to see what else they've fucked up this week.

Will it be more ID theft issues from the website?
Another data breach?
The IRS telling HHS that they cannot nowaynohownotgonnahappen open their back door to the ACA servers?
That Aetna reassured it's shareholders that no matter what happens with the ACA they have a built in bailout?

This is so exciting!

[LynchPin1477]

Wait, have all of the above happened? I can't keep up anymore.

[fish]

Wait, have all of the above happened? I can't keep up anymore.

Yep......I think Epi is having a FAILgasm watching it all implode!

[LynchPin1477]

I would love to get links to some of those stories. I only heard about the email addresses and security questions showing up in plain text in the html. And that was found by a good guy.

[Tman]

LP,

Obamacare's taxpayer bailout for health insurers

[CatoTheElder]

Don't forget about the Navigators advising clients to lie on their ObamaCare applications ... and illegally channeling info to Democrat-oriented organizations for voter registration.

[Dweebston]

I can't forget what I haven't seen, Cato 🙁

[CatoTheElder]

All you need to know about the Navigators

[Juice]

O man, that video. What's up with the cowboy music video thing?

[Austrian Anarchy]

FB seems to be that way a lot. I had a longer version, but reason.gov ate my response.

[PapayaSF]

I sometimes hear that socialism is more "efficient" from otherwise well-educated people who seem to get their economics from all the usual media suspects.

[fish]

Cue Bowel Blockage to tell us why "it's a good program we just have to give it time" in ....4....3.....2

[Sevo]

His most recent claim is that the market will 'fix' O'care.
Well, yeah, the market can 'fix' the food shortage in the Soviet Union, too. But at what cost?

[Pathogen]

"His most recent claim is that the market will 'fix' O'care."

Yeah, there's nothing completely fucking up a tediously complex market, moving everyone's food dish, and denouncing everybody that complains about it as 'too stupid to conceive Obamas genius', and then just throwing your hands up, and say 'fuck it, dude... Let's go bowling it will work itself out, and wandering off to some other shiny object that grabs your random attention... Obama truly has the mind of a child...

[fish]

If Obamacare had to obey Sarbanes-Oxley, Sebelius and Obama would be looking at 20 years in prison

Iowahawk blog!

[Pathogen]

Silence piss-ant, those words you utter are proof of the treason that resides in your heart, be thankful for the patience and benevolence that resides in the hearts of your moral and intellectual superiors... prostrate yourself at the alter of our fearless leader, and beg his forgiveness.

[fish]

Silence piss-ant, those words you utter are proof of the treason that resides in your heart.....

Way too late......my treason is out dancing naked on my front lawn and the front lawns of all my neighbors!

TREASON, TREASON, TREASON,
TREASON, TREASON, TREASON....JEHOVAH....wait no....
TREASON, TREASON, TREASON,
TREASON, TREASON, TREASON!

[PapayaSF]

Healthcare.gov has to obey HIPAA, and it's not. If it were a private company, there would be legal action as we speak.

[CatoTheElder]

At the cost of the abandoning Communism, of course.

[HazelMeade]

We're turning a corner.

[Irish]

This is a joke, right?

Is this a joke?

I CAN'T TELL ANYMORE!

[playa manhattan]

There's a whole thread. I'll just throw my comment here:
http://reason.com/blog/2013/11.....nt_4127750

[Irish]

It's 320 posts.

I may have been a bit late to the party on this one.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

No guy likes to wear a condom. Thanks a lot Obamacare!

[jesse.in.mb]

I totally missed the fine print on that one

"The Pill doesn't protect you from STDs, condoms and common sense do that"

Which is totally what the girl who is super duper excited to have free The Pill is thinking about right there.

[fish]

"BIRTH CONTROL! It lets him blow his load directly inside of you!"

That's far too honest advertising to ever work for this administration....how about this?

"BIRTH CONTROL! It lets him blow his load directly inside of you and gets your teeth their whitest!"

[Pathogen]

"BIRTH CONTROL! It lets him blow his load directly inside of you and gets your teeth their whitest! and leaves only the fresh scent of pine."

[fish]

"BIRTH CONTROL! It's a floor wax and a dessert topping!"

[Slammer]

"BIRTH CONTROL! In case you get hit by a bus.

[CatoTheElder]

It's not a joke.

It's real. All too real.

And a very good portrayal of just how dumb the progressive elite thinks Obamatons really are.

[fish]

And a very good portrayal of just how dumb the progressive elite thinks Obamatons really are.

So you're claiming the Obamatons are brighter than they seem?? Sorry dude, I gotta side with the progressive elites on this one!

[CatoTheElder]

No, they are misguided youth who have no idea of how the world really works. I have to believe they are capable of learning a little bit.

Otherwise, THERE IS NO HOPE!

On second thought: You're probably right: IT'S HOPELESS!

[playa manhattan]

Here they all are:
http://www.doyougotinsurance.com/index.php?id=2
No need to cherry pick the stupid ones, I think Gillespie took a random sample....

[Irish]

Is this one fat shaming the girl on the left?

[fish]

Those ads are just begging for the "FAIL" blog treatment!

[Irish]

WHOA!

How did I not see this one? Why is this young man perched on top of the keg like an owl?

[fish]

....So you're gay and like to drink beer?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSMF-4b6wr4

Schmitts Gay?

[SusanM]

One of the last things on SNL I ever found funny 😀

[playa manhattan]

My favorite is the pregnant uggo. "Hey, I'm pregnant. Is there any way I can insure against having a baby?"

[Irish]

I'm excited for a few days from now when there will be a million parody versions of these ads. I don't even know how you'll be able to tell the difference.

[playa manhattan]

More comedy gold than this:
http://imgur.com/a/tNM52
First few are real.

[Pathogen]

Those are pretty goddammed funny...

[Pathogen]

Those ads remind me of those butthurt inducing Brady campaign ads a while back.. Trollollolloll

[Pathogen]

Shit.. wrong place..

[fish]

I don't even know how you'll be able to tell the difference.

You won't!

[Eduard van Haalen]

Planned Parenthood in Colorado blames *opponents* of Obamacare for these ads -

"Unfortunate that anti-obamacare folks are #slutshaming #women who use #birthcontrol #GotInsurance #ThanksObamacare"

http://twitchy.com/2013/11/12/.....rance-ads/

[Sevo]

Now THAT is FUNNY!

[playa manhattan]

Nope, it's friendly fire. Sorry.

[Sevo]

"Nope, it's friendly fire. Sorry."

But when someone apologizes, will it be a real apology or just #provocateur?

[playa manhattan]

I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

[playa manhattan]

P.S. I love that the ads all have hashtags.
I'll just leave this here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57dzaMaouXA

[KPres]

We didn't build that.

[Pathogen]

Irish|11.12.13 @ 6:43PM|#

This is a joke, right?

Is this a joke?

I CAN'T TELL ANYMORE!

That's.. it's.. Wow, beyond parody, and through the looking glass... I'm speechless.

[GILMORE]

RIGHT WING SABOTAGE CONSPIRACY

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Krugman flashback: Let's not worry about the Obamacare sticker shock

The California bids are in...And the prices, it turns out, are surprisingly low. A handful of healthy people may find themselves paying more for coverage, but it looks as if Obamacare's first year in California is going to be an overwhelmingly positive experience.
[...]
Still, here's what it seems is about to happen: millions of Americans will suddenly gain health coverage, and millions more will feel much more secure knowing that such coverage is available if they lose their jobs or suffer other misfortunes. Only a relative handful of people will be hurt at all. And as contrasts emerge between the experience of states like California that are making the most of the new policy and that of states like Texas whose politicians are doing their best to undermine it, the sheer meanspiritedness of the Obamacare opponents will become ever more obvious.

So yes, it does look as if there's an Obamacare shock coming: the shock of learning that a public program designed to help a lot of people can, strange to say, end up helping a lot of people ? especially when government officials actually try to make it work.

[fish]

Pauly Krugnutz: Reliable Contrarian Indicator

PS:CHRISTFAGFUCKWITDICKHEADSOROSBLOW!

[Sevo]

"the shock of learning that a public program designed to help a lot of people can, strange to say, end up helping a lot of people"

Yeah, ask Obo and Sebelius how it's helping *them* just now.

[playa manhattan]

"A handful of healthy people may find themselves paying more for coverage"

How many fucking people can he fit in his hands?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

He must be exhausted from always being right.

[anon]

It's not so much always being right, but always having to try to explain what he meant so that you can better understand.

[Episiarch]

Washington Healthplanfinder, the state's exchange, was erroneously sending their monthly incomes to the federal hub

This is a terribly worded sentence. Was the state exchange sending the wrong values for monthly income, or was it not supposed to send them at all?

In any case, this just keeps getting better. I don't know if I've ever seen a government fuckup of this magnitude before, and on top of that there is absolutely no way to hide it from people. In fact, more and more people are getting fucked by it every day. This is amazing stuff, folks.

[playa manhattan]

They were supposed to present the data as annual income.

[Episiarch]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's comedy gold. And exactly the kind of bug I would expect.

[playa manhattan]

It's not like there's some sort of magical mathematical function you can use to correct this sort of thing!
*12. Hire me.

[Episiarch]

They can fix it, but the damage is already done; thousands of people's experience with the exchange have been turned into a profoundly negative experience. Oh, it's just so delicious!

[anon]

They can fix it

Debatable. I, for one, propose that government cannot fix anything.

[Eduard van Haalen]

lol you gotta love those statolatrous politicians

[Anonymous Coward]

You know whose fault it is Obama lied? Yours, because Barry was just telling you what you wanted to hear
http://www.nydailynews.com/opi.....-1.1511360

In selling the health-care plan that bears his name, President Obama has, according to the fact-checking website Politifact, said at least 34 times that "if you like your health care plan, you can keep it." That statement was not completely true, and it's a lie that is today causing the President no end of political headaches.

Still, before we fully castigate the President for his rhetorical flights of fancy, it's important to keep in mind that Obama was ? to a large degree ? telling Americans what they wanted to hear. In fact, he was giving them the type of comforting assurances they insist upon getting before backing any major policy change from Washington.

So accuse Obama of lying about health-care reform ? but understand the simple underlying reality: we can't handle the truth.

[Sevo]

"we can't handle the truth."
Whoever wrote that has something stinky in his pocket.

[LynchPin1477]

Truly, Obama has not failed us. We have failed Obama.

[Pathogen]

We are all.. #THECLEVELANDBROWNS

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

The people should be abolished and replaced with a New Obama Man, one who selflessly sacrifices his own happiness and works for the security of Obama's legacy as the greatest president ever.

[Pathogen]

Apparently, the clinic that manages the Spaarti cloning cylinders, is out of network, and not participating in the ACA exchanges... I blame Booosh!

[playa manhattan]

"President Obama has, according to the fact-checking website Politifact, said at least 34 times that "if you like your health care plan, you can keep it." That statement was not completely true..."

There's no sugar coating it, that statement was not completely true.

[playa manhattan]

Also, that website had "news" in the url. Consumer fraud?

[Pathogen]

Sooo... "not completely true" == "mostly bullshit"?

[playa manhattan]

Mostly?

[playa manhattan]

Sorry, the sugarcoating thing is a recent meme around here pioneered by Obama and John.

[Pathogen]

+1 Artisanal Mayonnaise

[PapayaSF]

In Politifact-speech, "not completely true" == "100% bullshit from a Democrat"

[Sevo]

ON topic:
"Dianne Feinstein joins effort to change Affordable Care Act"
"Sen. Dianne Feinstein on Tuesday joined the ranks of worried Democrats demanding that President Obama allow people to keep their current insurance policies. Feinstein's move is bad news for an administration..."
http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05el.....-care-act/
Maybe DiFi will tell that hag what's in it; she just lives down the street.
Oh, and the Chron has been running nothing but edi-cartoons implying there's absolutely nothing wrong with O'care that wouldn't be solved if GOPers just quit griping about it. Maybe the editorial staff will pay attention now that their own DC reporter has found otherwise.
Maybe.

[playa manhattan]

"demanding that President Obama allow people to keep their current insurance policies"

What what what?!? It's the law of the land. Why is she trying to commit treason?

[Sevo]

It's getting worse.
"Clinton: Obama should honor health care pledge"
..."former President Bill Clinton says President Barack Obama should find a way to let people keep their health coverage, even if it means changing the law."
http://www.sfgate.com/news/pol.....977273.php
Now even Bubba's suggesting a helping of crow.

[playa manhattan]

Find me a lamppost. It's treason, from what my progressive friends tell me.

[CatoTheElder]

Yeah. ObamaCare is the law. Why do the Democrats want to change?

As Dear Leader has said: "No matter what Congress decides to do today: The Affordable Care Act is moving Forward?. That funding is already in place. You can't shut it down."

Start at 5:00

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Great. Let's get that fixed along with a 1 year delay in the individual mandate. I mean, think of the children!

[Sevo]

NotAnotherSkippy|11.12.13 @ 8:20PM|#
"Great. Let's get that fixed along with a 1 year delay in the individual mandate."

As I understand it, the mandate for 'mental health' was just added this past weekend; the 'fixed law' is seemingly still being written.
So now our Gosplan apparatchiks are going to have to 'write the quota' for whatever 'mental health coverage' is to mean' with lobbyists hanging over their shoulders.
Add that we further have dems piling on to 'keep the old plan' (and you can bet that'll end up nowhere close to as simple as it sounds).
Great! Call the IT guys and get them to integrate those new features in the web site!
One year delay? HA, HA, HA, HA....

[SweatingGin]

Not just treason! Terrorism!

[CatoTheElder]

If the House Republicans sign off on anything other than REPEAL they are dumber than dogshit. Okay, maybe they could compromise and rescind the $95/1% penaltax. Let the Democrats get a good soaking in the cesspool they created.

[Sevo]

CatoTheElder|11.12.13 @ 8:59PM|#
"If the House Republicans sign off on anything other than REPEAL they are dumber than dogshit."

I really don't know enough about it (and neither does that hag, BTW) but the GOP ought to take a *very* good look at it, and HANG IT AROUND THE NECKS OF THE DEMS IN THE WORST WAY THEY CAN FIND!
If that's repeal, OK. Ditto the fine; that's OK too. But find the absolute WORST way to hang this on that hag and that lying piece of shit Obo.
Give him crow, make it raw, and no, he can't have salt.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Give him crow, make it raw, and no, he can't have salt.

Are you enjoying that?

[HazelMeade]

What they should hold out for is gutting the law while technically not repealing it.

The Democrats will never go for a full repeal. But, if the shit gets bad enough. They might quietly go along with "fixing" the law in a way that effectively guts it.

[Sevo]

HazelMeade|11.12.13 @ 9:31PM|#
"What they should hold out for is gutting the law while technically not repealing it."

IDEA!
Let's keep the fine whether you buy insurance or not, and call it the "O'care Fine"! Repeal everything else!
All stick, no carrot! Whadyathink?

[Suthenboy]

No shit. DiFi must think there is a realistic possibility that she could lose her job over this. If a socialist cunt as entrenched as she is, in a district like hers, is in danger of losing an election, then Uncle Joe was correct that "this is a big fucking deal'. This really is one of the biggest fuckups in American History. I never thought I would see the day.

I would love to see that vile hag forced into retirement by an infection of flesh eating bacteria on her face, but I fear what the fuckwit voters in her district would replace her with.

[Episiarch]

Oh, this is a big fucking deal. It took a particular combination of factors: an unworkable law pushed through by a particularly incompetent, narcissistic President; a law that affects tons of people; utter incompetence from his entire administration; and the unthinking or delusional support of so many people for the law. But it happened.

I am so looking forward to what the fallout looks like. I want to see as many heads roll as possible, but that might be optimistic. However, this fuckup was far bigger than I think any of us expected; maybe the fallout will be too.

I certainly hope so.

[HazelMeade]

No doubt her district contains a lot of self-employed artist types who wanted everyone to have healthcare, but didn't think that they personally would be the ones paying for it.

[HazelMeade]

No doubt her district contains a lot of self-employed artist types who wanted everyone to have healthcare, but didn't think that they personally would be the ones paying for it.

[playa manhattan]

Her district= the entire state of CA. But your entire statement is correct.

[Kid Xenocles]

"Man, this Obamacare thing sure sucked. I better vote for a Democrat so that never happens again."

[Sevo]

They told me if I voted for a 3rd party candidate, I'd have shitty medical insurance at a high cost.
They were right!

[Tman]

Was there anything worse than listening to Pelosi and the others talk about "if you're an artist or musician, you won't have to get a job just to get health insurance".

Not only was that a blatant lie but Fuck you Nancy anyways. They want health insurance? Then they can get a job like the rest of us.

Now I'm paying higher premiums so that Joey "early middle age crisis" Dreamcatcher, the wannabe who plays Eagles covers at the local Hooters whilst mooching off his girlfriend for gas money, can get subsidized health insurance.

Barf.

[Sevo]

"Now I'm paying higher premiums so that Joey "early middle age crisis" Dreamcatcher, the wannabe who plays Eagles covers at the local Hooters whilst mooching off his girlfriend for gas money, can get subsidized health insurance."

Hey, my WBIL says he's a real ARTIST!

[Suthenboy]

"Was there anything worse than listening to Pelosi and the others talk about "if you're an artist or musician, you won't have to get a job just to get health insurance"."

Gouging your own eye out with a rusty spoon? Removing one of your testicles with a pair of wire cutters that are gummed up and barely work?

Hmmmm. No, on second thought, nothing was worse.

[Eduard van Haalen]

"A professional football player says he walked away from the NFL, leaving more than $1 million on the table, after studying the works of Noam Chomsky and the Dalai Lama....

"The 27-year-old [John] Moffitt, who signed a four-year contract worth nearly $3 million after he was drafted out of Wisconsin in 2011, will give up more than $312,000 for the remainder of this season and more than $750,000 in non-guaranteed salary next year.

""I've saved enough. It's not like I'm sitting here and I'm a millionaire," Moffitt said...."I'm sitting here and I got to this point and I was like, what is the number that you need? How much do you really need?...

"Moffitt said he began studying the writings of Chomsky [and the Dalai Lama]...while studying sociology at the University of Wisconsin.

""I just really thought about it and decided I'm not happy," Moffit said. "I'm not happy, and I think it's really madness to risk your body, risk your well-being and risk your happiness, for money."

"Moffitt said he planned to spend more time with his father and 5-year-old daughter, and he also intends to diet to shed some of his 319-pound playing weight.

"He also said he hopes to record podcasts and possibly work in broadcasting.

""Everybody, they just don't get it and they think it's crazy," he said. "But I think what I was doing is crazy.""

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201.....-football/

[playa manhattan]

NBD. Future Darwin award winner.

[SweatingGin]

DUI, or something more exciting? Place bets now.

[playa manhattan]

Is a homeless DUI more exciting? Nevermind, I'm sure he will make plenty of money podcasting his unique and valuable ideas....

[Pathogen]

..Noted ex-professional football player, and local "Homeless and hungry... God-bless" cardboard sign enthusiast, John Moffitt, plead guilty to charges of...

[Pathogen]

NBD. Future Darwin award winner windshield spit shiner, and loose change magnet at a stoplight near you...

[Irish]

Eh. If he values other things more than he values the extra money, then good for him.

It's his choice. It's neither a good or a bad one. It just depends on what he wants.

[playa manhattan]

He reads Chomsky. He's not mature enough to know what he wants yet.

[Irish]

That sounds awfully similar to the leftists' argument that we're all just too stupid to choose our own health insurance.

Sure you want to go down that road, comrade?

[Sevo]

He's welcome to chose as he pleases, but I wonder if he got to the part about the Dalai Lama being a slave-keeper.
IOWs, I wonder if he's making the choice on half the available info.

[playa manhattan]

SLD: IMHO

[KPres]

You sound awfully familiar to the leftists argument that libertarians think everything that's not illegal is OK.

[anon]

Can you really trust someone that doesn't value money though? I mean, really?

[Irish]

Everyone doesn't value money at some point. If someone said 'allow me to cut off your hand without anesthesia for $100,000' I'd hope you value your hand and a life free from pain more than the money. Maybe you don't.

In his case, he values time with his family more than the money he would get playing football. He's a college graduate from a solid university who is also well remembered in the state of Wisconsin. He'll be able to get a job, it just won't pay as well.

In other words, he values time with his family and a $50,000 salary more than less time with his family and a $750,000 salary. That's his choice and it's a rational one, even if we wouldn't make the same one.

[anon]

In his case, he values time with his family more than the money he would get playing football.

I'm just sayin', I'd take $800k for a year's work if it meant that I had to jack Warty off every day for 8 hours.

$800k to play football? Sign me the fuck up.

[SweatingGin]

You wouldn't make it through the first week before you were crying for mom from the RSI.

[anon]

I figure I'd spend a good chunk of my salary on some kind of cool exoskeleton so I could use minimal effort.

[SweatingGin]

Ah, the 3d printed auto-jacking-hand.

See, that's a smart capital investment.

Isn't there someone on here who always goes on about teledildonics?

Put those together, and you can outsource the job to someone who likes that part.

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm just sayin', I'd take $800k for a year's work if it meant that I had to jack Warty off every day for 8 hours.

You're gonna get some really bad epicondylitis doing that, possibly a rotator cuff tear and carpal tunnel, and trigger finger (depending on technique of course). 800k annually is great, just make sure you are putting some of that away to hire disaffected surgeons made poor by Obamacare.

[SweatingGin]

trigger finger

thank you, Jesse.

[anon]

I hope you people realize we just created an entire sub-industry based upon giving Warty handjobs.

And this is why there are no female libertarians.

[jesse.in.mb]

Meh, the state will just come in and wreck it with arcane safety rules like wearing goggles and having OSHA signs up everywhere. I look forward to writing your medical history:

The patient spends 8 hours per day repeatedly flexing and extending his arm at the elbow with a slight twisting motion in the wrist while keeping his hand in a constant C-shape around a 12-inch circumference knobbly-flesh-cylinder of pure unadulterated horror. The patient may occasionally reverse his grip to relieve some of the ache in his elbow, but by doing so spends an excessive time making a side-to-side motion with his elbow, aggravating his symptoms further.

Extended psych eval recommended.

[SweatingGin]

New email signature acquired,

[Jordan]

No. Because they are openly lying to you.

[Kid Xenocles]

Eh, whatever. I hope it works for him.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Slate is alarmed by the crazy hybrid of First and Second Amendment rights exercised by open-carry advocates

Gun-toting protestors of course claim that their speech is not about preparedness to kill but about changing that cultural reading: to show that good guys (and their children!) carry guns; that seeing a gun does not mean that someone is about to be shot; that you too can carry a gun in this way; that it's your inalienable right to do so! The problem is that carrying a gun only says all these things if it also says that the carrier is prepared to kill someone. What open carriers hope to normalize, then, what they hope we all come to accept, is that having instant access to the means to kill is not a scary thing.

To which we say: Good luck with that.

Given how many people die every year as a result of gun violence, reasonable observers can't differentiate between the AK-47 being brandished for lethal purposes and the one being brandished to celebrate freedom and self-reliance. That's why reasonable observers tend to feel intimidated and call the cops.

But we should feel safe around cops, right? I mean it's not like a cop is more likely to shoot me than one of those open-carry guys. Cops have an incentive against murdering civilians by virtue of their status as agents of the state.

[Irish]

Gun-toting protestors of course claim that their speech is not about preparedness to kill but about changing that cultural reading: to show that good guys (and their children!) carry guns; that seeing a gun does not mean that someone is about to be shot; that you too can carry a gun in this way; that it's your inalienable right to do so! The problem is that carrying a gun only says all these things if it also says that the carrier is prepared to kill someone. What open carriers hope to normalize, then, what they hope we all come to accept, is that having instant access to the means to kill is not a scary thing.

That's because it's not a scary thing unless you're thinking about killing someone who isn't a threat.

Killing someone is not scary unless you're the aggressor. If you have a gun because you're prepared to kill someone that is attempting to hurt, kill, or abuse another human being, then not only is it not scary, but it's actually noble to be willing to use lethal force in defense of another human being. If I see a woman being raped or a man having a knife pulled on him, then putting a stop to that violence doesn't make me scary, it makes me a hero.

It amazes me that liberals have inexplicably lost the ability to tell the difference between an aggressor and a victim. Somehow saying 'I will not be a victim and neither will the people around me' has become morally equivalent to being a criminal in their minds.

[Episiarch]

Meh, it's more that they obviously think that the average person walking around with a gun could and might just up and start blasting people. I mean, that's precisely what this person says. But why do they think that when there are millions upon millions of gun owners in this country, and millions of CCW holders? Because they don't trust themselves to not lose control, and so they project their weakness and depravity on everyone else.

You can't be trusted because they don't trust themselves.

[anon]

Meh, it's more that they obviously think that the average person walking around with a gun could and might just up and start blasting people.

To be fair, if I had my ar-15 on me and I were surrounded by a bunch of whiny ass proglodytes trying to get the cops to arrest me for having a gun, the thought of blasting em all would definitely cross my mind.

[Episiarch]

But you still wouldn't. And you can trust yourself on that. I know I could. But they don't trust themselves not to do bad things.

This is why they have no problem with cops/government having guns. They just stupidly assume that they hired people who can be trusted to not start blasting people. And man did they make a wrong assumption on that one.

[anon]

Yeah, I wouldn't. I would, however, fire upon the cop that tried to illegally disarm me, and suffer Suicide By Cop.

[SweatingGin]

When I -really- egg a prog on. Really make them endorse fascist policies before point out what they are. When I really get that going -- I don't think I'd trust them, either.

[Pathogen]

"You can't be trusted because they don't trust themselves."

And that's the gorilla in the room... Spot on.

[Tejicano]

One of the biggest worries in the back of my mind when I open carry - and a big reason why I will usually carry concealed - is that some proggie/lefty will try to grab my gun in some stupid politically motivated stunt. They will defintely end up having their anatomy modified in some way they will not find useful and it will probably screw up my schedule for the rest of the day.

[Suthenboy]

"Somehow saying 'I will not be a victim and neither will the people around me' has become morally equivalent to being a criminal in their minds."

Consider the cowboy movie heroes of the past. That is what they were all about, and they displayed their guns prominently, often embellishing them with gold, silver and ivory. Their guns were, in a way, a symbol of their noble intentions.

Now consider how those people are regarded by the proggie crowd. They were evil white oppressors, and symbols of the patriarchy blah blah blah.

[playa manhattan]

"Given how many people die every year as a result of gun violence, reasonable observers can't differentiate between the AK-47 being brandished for lethal purposes and the one being brandished to celebrate freedom and self-reliance"

Really? They can't tell when a gun is being fired?

[Pathogen]

"Really? They can't tell when a gun is being fired?"

It's a slippery slope from inadvertently laying eyes on a gun, and being robbed, raped, and murdered by whoevers closest to it, in that split second... You'll never even hear the shot.

[anon]

If the only person around to hear the shot dies from it, was it really heard?

[Kid Xenocles]

That's why I use supersonic rounds.

[Episiarch]

The reason they are animists is that they see guns and immediately think of doing something bad with them. Which means, to them, that guns are evil supernatural totems that put bad thoughts in their heads, which is why they extend their phobia to even things shaped like guns, even if those things can't hurt anyone.

It's quite telling about these people that the first thing they think of when seeing a gun is "lose control and kill someone".

[John]

Bingo. They are savages. They see objects and words as magic.

[anon]

They see objects and words as magic.

Best description of a proggy I've read yet.

[Slammer]

And they fail to see that actively taking away a person's means to defend himself against violence is an act of force ( backed up by violence). If you're raped lay there and take it.

[Irish]

Also, if you're a minority group, you should have to completely rely on the government to protect your rights while having no actual recourse if they choose not to do so.

Nothing says 'I care about minority rights!' like taking away the only actual means they have of protecting them.

[Pathogen]

"Nothing says 'I care about minority rights!' like taking away the only actual means they have of protecting them."

Yeah.. that policy worked wonders from ~1870's to the ~1960's... The victims, hoist by their own petard democrat rope...

[Episiarch]

They don't care. They want someone to step in and make sure they don't do anything bad; if that means you get stepped on too, why should they give a shit?

[0x90]

Not to mention it's also a nice bonus that this happens to dovetail with a parallel urge to control and take advantage of people.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Won't someone think of the children?!

[CatoTheElder]

3000 teen deaths per year!!!!

Obviously we need national Smart Phone control.

For the children.

It's not like there's a constitutional amendment

[anon]

Those guys are awesome.

[anon]

The question is whether that activity can and should be limited.

Oh fuck you, you fucking cunt.

[John]

Given how many people die every year as a result of gun violence, reasonable observers can't differentiate between the AK-47 being brandished for lethal purposes and the one being brandished to celebrate freedom and self-reliance.

Or to put it another way, the writers at Slate assume everyone else is as retarded on these things as they are.

[anon]

Given how many people die every year as a result of gun violence vehicle accidents, reasonable observers can't differentiate between the AK-47 vehicle being brandished for lethal purposes and the one being brandished to celebrate freedom and self-reliance.

[PapayaSF]

They assume all "reasonable observers" are refined and sensitive Eloi like they are.

[Pathogen]

"Slate is alarmed by the crazy hybrid of First and Second Amendment rights exercised by open-carry advocates"

Gun owner=Redneck=Teabigot=Nihilist/Cold blooded murder larvae .. Protesting in favor of 'civil-rights' does not compute..

[Anonymous Coward]

Given how many people die every year as a result of gun violence,

So if all of the "gun violence" (well over 60% of which is suicide) magically transformed into knife violence, there'd be no problem, right?

[jesse.in.mb]

I'd ask the British but all of their violence is sharpened screwdriver violence, so they might not know.

[Pathogen]

Broken bottle "glassing" is all the rage in the U.K. these days... and they still shoot each other on occasion as well...

[Pathogen]

"reasonable observers can't differentiate between the AK-47 Pop-Tart being brandished for lethal purposes and the one being brandished to celebrate freedom and self-reliance airsoft rifle of a dead 13yo child.

Fixed...

[anon]

Sometimes, I think politicians wake up and say "Hey, how can I completely fuck my constituents today?"

Other times, I realize that my first thought was 100% accurate.

[Eduard van Haalen]

"The [Israeli] government's campaign against laws in Europe banning [name of procedure omitted], continued Tuesday, with Deputy Religious Affairs Minister Eliahu Ben- Dahan (Bayit Yehudi) meeting with Council of Europe secretary-general Thorbjorn Jagland in Berlin.

""The Council of Europe cannot violate freedom of religion and fight the principles of Judaism that the Jewish people observed for thousands of years," Ben-Dahan said.

"The deputy minister's comments came over a month after the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) passed a resolution calling [name of procedure omitted] a "violation of the physical integrity of children." The council also said that countries should protect children "against violations of their physical integrity according to human rights standards."

"Since then, Knesset Speaker Yuli Edelstein (Likud Beytenu) called for [Knesset members] with connections to European politicians to make the issue a priority. Many plan to meet with parliamentarians from across the continent.

"...Jagland told him that PACE did not wish to violate freedom of worship for Jews and that the organization sought to protect Jewish people and allow them to keep their traditions."

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy.....ion-331495

[Eduard van Haalen]

"If you like your traditions, you can keep zem," Jagland added.

[Libertarius]

Insurance bills? Financial costs? Causality and consequences?

These Washington state leftoids should just smoke some dope and remember their postmodernist training: there is no such thing as objective reality, it is just a subjective flux of random percepts, sensations, and propositional constructs. How can they say their insurance bills are rising, or that they even had insurance in the first place? How do they even know they exist?

[JidaKida]

Pathetic, meanwhile the insurance companies continue getting richer!

http://www.Privacy-Road.tk

[Pathogen]

Yeah.. fuck those guys!

[SweatingGin]

What we need is a way to stabilize the individual insurance market. A way to stop the bleeding. It can be called the Anti dog-eat-dog law, at least until we have a good acronym.

[anon]

I always failed to see what was wrong with dogs eating dogs.

[cavalier973]

+1 Michael Vick

[Irish]

I was ready to mock liberals for attacking Richard Cohen for being a racist. At first I assumed it was just liberals having a stupid outrage party when there wasn't actually any racism going on. You know, like they usually do.

Then I read the article.

Today's GOP is not racist, as Harry Belafonte alleged about the tea party, but it is deeply troubled ? about the expansion of government, about immigration, about secularism, about the mainstreaming of what used to be the avant-garde. People with conventional views must repress a gag reflex when considering the mayor-elect of New York ? a white man married to a black woman and with two biracial children. (Should I mention that Bill de Blasio's wife, Chirlane McCray, used to be a lesbian?) This family represents the cultural changes that have enveloped parts ? but not all ? of America. To cultural conservatives, this doesn't look like their country at all.

That's...that's not something you should probably be saying out loud, buddy.

[anon]

Who gives a fuck what race some dipshit mayor of NYC's wife is?

[anon]

I say this as a White Southern Male.

According to fuckface, I should be gagging at the thought; in reality, I couldn't give a fuck less who he's married to, or whether it's a man or a woman. It's not my fucking business.

[Pathogen]

Hey.. hey.. hey.. get back into that narrative, right now... bitter clinger!

[CatoTheElder]

Same here. Cohen really has a bigoted view of cultural conservatives. I am no longer a conservative, but a biracial couple has not been a big deal since, what, 1970? For crying out loud, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner came out in 1967 and was a box office hit in the South.

I thought the former lesbian comment was kind of weird. I thought the gays had a doctrine that it was impossible to convert.

[jesse.in.mb]

I thought the gays had a doctrine that it was impossible to convert.

Even the larger ex-gay movement generally believes that "converting" is impossible. At best you're getting some behavior modification but the base instinct is still there.

I don't know enough about her story, but I'd assume she's someplace in the middle of the Kinsey scale and got caught up in the heady times of the '70s radicalism as I mentioned below.

[Kid Xenocles]

Used to be a lesbian? Did she convert or something? I thought that was unpossible.

[anon]

Much like all straights are a little gay, all gays are a little straight.

At least, if you get them drunk enough.

[Eduard van Haalen]

"all straights are a little gay, all gays are a little straight"

Every cop is a criminal, and all the sinners saints

[Kid Xenocles]

Her liver must be toast to have married the guy. But seriously, how can they say something like that without implicitly saying sexuality is a choice?

[jesse.in.mb]

But seriously, how can they say something like that without implicitly saying sexuality is a choice?

According to her wikipedia bio:

In 2012, when asked about her 1979 essay, she commented: "In the 1970s, I identified as a lesbian and wrote about it. In 1991, I met the love of my life, married him."

I don't really think that's that weird. If I had to guess she's probably somewhere in the middle of the Kinsey scale, got caught up in '70s radicalism and then met a dude and that worked better for her.

[anon]

I imagine she was getting fucked by a strapon one night and thought "Man, I could really use a real dick right now."

[Pathogen]

Why there are no libertarian women, states exhibit "A"...

[anon]

Please. You think that's "dirty?" You need to hear women talk sometime.

[Irish]

I imagine she was getting fucked by a strapon one night and thought "Man, I could really use a real dick right now."

Wow. I did not see this coming.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Neither did she.

[Kid Xenocles]

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about it. I'm just trying to keep up with the latest dogma. As far as I'm concerned only the person's choice of action can matter, and in this case it doesn't matter anyway.

[Acosmist]

lolkinseyscale

Turns out, that was just a way for him to meet dudes.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

He's got that Cosmo Kramer kervorka.

[KPres]

You're born gay. This just proves she was straight all along.

[/non-falsifiable theory]

[John]

I don't know anyone right or left who objects to interracial marriage. There is nothing "conventional" about that.

As far as her once being a lesbian, last I looked Christians converting gays and lesbians was being criminalized in New Jersey. So I really can't see even the most conservative Christian being anything but happy to see De Blasio's wife get married and join the straight world.

What a strange view of the Right Cohen has.

[Irish]

That's my favorite part. Cohen was basically calling the Tea Party racist, in an article where he was claiming not to call them racist, but liberals are so stupid that they assume he holds the views he's trying to claim the Tea Party has.

These people are so fucking stupid it's unbelievable. It makes me laugh watching them lynch each other.

[Episiarch]

This debacle really has them slashing at each other. It's beautiful.

[Pathogen]

They've spent decades laying these various progressive ideological landmines for the conservatives to step on, only to realize too late, they're parked on the other side of their own carelessly laid out minefield..

[anon]

I can say with 100% accuracy that I don't know a single person that would give a fuck about that particular information.

[Eduard van Haalen]

The redneck teathuglicans didn't seem to have a gag reflex when they found out Clarence Thomas and Ward Connerly (who helped ban affirmative action) had married white wimmen.

I get the idea that calling right-wingers racist is a useful way to use racist rhetoric while claiming to be criticizing it - "yeah, those Republicans think blacks are just a bunch of n______s and j____e b_____s, p___c m_____ys. God, I can't stand that sort of racism!"

[Suthenboy]

Wow. That is pretty reprehensible. Why the fuck does little Dick care who someone else is married to? How is that relevant to the job? Or any of his business?

Gag at the mere thought of interracial marriages? At teh thought of children of mixed race? Cohen is one repulsive fuck.

[SusanM]

All part of the elaborate GOP strategy to fuck up yet another election.

BTW, who, outside of Iowa, gives a shit what people in Iowa think?

[Anonymous Coward]

People with conventional views must repress a gag reflex when considering the mayor-elect of New York ? a white man married to a black woman and with two biracial children.

Meanwhile, the fact that the man cavorts with violent socialist revolutionaries (the Sandanistas) and handwaves their treatment of dissenters in no way should affect anyone's opinion of him.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Ezra Klein: "Why did Obama promise people could keep their health insurance? Blame Bill Clinton.

"...In the aftermath of Clinton's failure, health-care reformers swung far to the other side. Rather than building a plan in which almost everyone lost their insurance, they began trying to build plans in which almost no one lost their insurance ? and selling them under the promise that literally no one would.

"That promise, as the Obama administration is now learning, went too far. Saying "everyone who likes their health insurance can keep it" is very different from saying "95 percent of people who like their health insurance can keep it.""

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....l-clinton/

[Pathogen]

"is very different from saying "95 percent of people who like their health insurance can keep it."

I suspect that soon enough, ~95% will seem... wildly optimistic...

[Eduard van Haalen]

"Obama has proved disingenuous, without suffering many consequences, for much of his tenure ? raising taxes when he said he would not; vastly increasing the national debt when he said he would cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term; promising lower unemployment...; bragging about new gas and oil production, which actually came on private land despite, not because of, his efforts; claiming credit for reducing a deficit that fell only because of the sequestration that he fought, and only because his previous deficits were so staggering that they were not sustainable.

"Yet if public reactions to these past scandals are any benchmark, Obama will survive the Obamacare fiasco as well. In two or three months, he will no doubt return to a near-50-percent approval rating in the polls. Almost half of America is invested in his landmark personal profile, or welcomes the vast increase in federal redistributive payouts and equates it with the Obama ideology and presidency. The media saw Obama the icon as reaffirmation of their own guilt-free liberalism and therefore became deductive rather than empirical....

"Barack Obama will survive his debacles in Benghazi and Syria, and his alphabet-soup IRS, AP, NSA, and ACA scandals. But the credibility of his supporters and of the media, which sacrificed principle for Obama's own expediency, will not."

http://www.nationalreview.com/.....vis-hanson

[PapayaSF]

I am not so sure. Once Obamacare hits the employer plans, look out.

[anon]

I know it's late in the thread, but what the fuck is a "navigator?"

Is this a real job that real people have?

How fucking pathetic do you have to be to not be able to sign yourself up for freebies?

[jesse.in.mb]

We work with a benefits consultant who helps HR with finding and implementing health plans, 401ks, etc. She's working on getting her Navigatorship because it allows her to do the same thing she's been doing prior to the advent of the ACA. She doesn't do a ton of individual signup stuff, but she answers questions employees might have on the nuances of policies available and walks them through forms if there's ambiguity.

She actually likes the Covered CA website although she's annoyed that it won't let you print a hard copy of the forms you're submitting, or save them to a PDF output.

[cavalier973]

"...she's annoyed that it won't let you print a hard copy of the forms you're submitting, or save them to a PDF output."

My spidey sense is tingling.

[SweatingGin]

A good point was made in a thread this morning. Insurance agents are licensed by the state, and work for a company, and can't lie.

Navigators don't have those sorts of restrictions.

SLD on licensing of insurance agents.

[CatoTheElder]

See link below for an example of the difference between a licensed insurance agent and a Navigator.

[Sevo]

anon|11.12.13 @ 9:11PM|#
"I know it's late in the thread, but what the fuck is a "navigator?""

Wife was watching golf last weekend and there was an ad for what I would call an O'care 'fixer', sort of like you have professional help filing IRS forms.
This ad (and I only caught part of it) focused on 'are you having trouble with O'care? If so, call XXX-XXX-XXXX'..' No, it wasn't a government outfit; strictly commercial.
Not sure that's a 'navigator'.

[CatoTheElder]

Here is all you need to know about navigators.

Remember the ACORN mortgage assistance program?

Well, it has been scaled back since there were a few difficulties with the program back in 2008, and its people are now ObamaCare Navigators.

[Pathogen]

A turd that won't flush? Say it aint so..

[SIV]

Who knew? Totally unforseeable. No one suspected it could possibly go wrong.

"We must ensure that in our effort to reform the health care system, we do not allow unintended consequences to go unaddressed."

[SweatingGin]

Name the next AR15 "unintended consequences"?

[SIV]

Unintended Consequences

[Sevo]

Look up-thread and you'll find Slick Willie piling on.

[Pathogen]

Desperate to cleanse his wife of the stench of Obamacare's shit..

[Sevo]

"Desperate to cleanse his wife of the stench of Obamacare's shit.."

I'm betting Obo doesn't much like her. She's been very quiet re: O'care from day one. Prolly snake-bit from the time she tried to slide one over; first envious that he got it through by lying his ass off, now deep in schadenfreude over his being caught.
I'm quite sure Bil-ary had a long talk before he opened his yap.

[Pathogen]

"I'm betting Obo doesn't much like her."

As Hillary sees it:

Easily accomplishing a health care agenda where both she and Bill failed? after the venom of 2008? Where a junior senator, a dark-horse (dog whistle) contender, of no particular political pedigree, mopped the floor with her, and her presidential ambitions, robbed her of her birthright, denied her- her righteous coronation, and relegated her to some hind tit sec of state position, while that pretender to the throne ruled supreme over what should of been her fawning and adoring crowds, the man who gave her only half-assed, and largely ineffective over *his* mess in Benghazi, Allowing her to be smeared in the press, a punching bag for the rabid far right.. while he golfed and fund-raised, oblivious to the damage he had done to her carefully crafted political carrier.. leaving her twisting in the breeze, while he moved on.. and casually discarding her when she was all used up politically.. after Bill saved his ass in 2012 by endorsing and campaigning for that shitheel, against that inept political hack, Romney.. I'm certain it all flows one way...

[Sevo]

Now what this country needs is a good knock-down, drag-out battle between several sleazy proggies. We want to hear the back-room comments, and we can start with the nastiness directed at the two ego-maniacal contenders to the 'free-shit' throne.
Let's hear it, Hil; how about that POS jug-eared Obo? And Obo, I'm sure you have some comments regarding not only that piano-legged bitch, but her lying husband too, right?

[Pathogen]

I bet both would love to cast aside their bullshit pretenses of civility, and polite discourse, and candidly tear each other apart by 2016. I bet her "betrayal" and humiliating defeat at he hands of that inept buffoon, and what she thought were loyal apparatchiks, in 2008, burns hotter in the back of her mind every single day. I sure hope so...

[CatoTheElder]

In what sense is a consequence that was obviously predictable, widely predicted, and reasonably presumed to be intended "unintended"?

[Redmanfms]

In what sense is a consequence that was obviously predictable, widely predicted, and reasonably presumed to be intended "unintended"?

See, they didn't intend it to happen, therefore the intentions meant it wouldn't happen. But when it did happen, that hadn't intended it, so obviously it's not their fault because it wasn't their intention for it to happen. See, their intentions were for something else to happen, and other people saying that this would happen meant that their intentions were for that thing to happen. The intentions of naysayers were for this to happen, but the proponents didn't intend for it to happen, so obviously the naysayers' intentions made this happen against the intentions of the proponents because they didn't intend for this to happen, but the naysayers did intend for this to happen. But it was intended by the people who crafted the law, so this happening was not intended because their intentions were for something else to happen.

See?

[Suthenboy]

I mentioned this yesterday but not sure how many saw it.

My son knows an obamacare navigator. She explained to him about the penalties and he was worried what would happen in a couple of years. She reassured him, laughing, by telling him that the whole thing was going to collapse in on itself before any of the higher penalties can kick in. She doesnt expect it to last a full year.

[Tman]

The IRS, the wing of the federal behemoth that recently mailed 655 tax refunds to a single address in Kaunas, Lithuania, is supposed to be the entity that will fix the economic death spiral of the insurance industry by divvying out subsidies and penalties.

I have more faith in the Jaguars making the Super Bowl this year than that happening.

[Sevo]

"She doesnt expect it to last a full year."

Not sure I trust her crystal ball, but it's not looking good now.
Obo must be spitting mini-balls for DiFi and Slick Willie to go public with their criticism, since he can't imagine he's less than perfect. OTOH, they may have tried personal suggestions and run into that arrogant egotist who told 'em to fuck off.
Suffice to say that two political 'pros' are making public noises about his fuck-up. That hag's been notably silent for the last couple of weeks; wonder what happened to her 'gains' from the GOP closing things down for a bit?

[CatoTheElder]

DiFi is stupid enough not to foresee that there would be several million cancellations, but Bill Clinton is not stupid.

I reckon Bill is getting payback for how the Obama Campaign tarred him with the "racist" epitaph back in 2008.

[Don Mynack]

As noted in the original article here: http://capsules.kaiserhealthne.....-estimate/
only 7300 people in total signed up for the Washington State exchange, so this means every single enrollee was given the incorrect subsidy info. NICE WORK.

[Sevo]

'How many got it wrong?'
'Well, only 7,300'
'Oh. OK. By the way, how many signed up?'
'Uh....'

[Irish]

This is the man who came up with those Obamacare ads about Brosurance.

He looks exactly like I pictured. A highly punchable face.

[Tman]

HIS BOSSES KNOW HE IS A LOOSE CANNON, BRO. MIGHT WANNA BACK OFF.

Ten bucks he has leather elbow patches on his blazer.

[Irish]

Read this tweet where he mocks other people for not having sex and try not to laugh as you look at the picture of the person saying this.

It's like Hitler mocking someone for having a silly mustache.

[Tman]

WHATEVS BRO, HE TOTALLY CRUSHES ALL THE CHICKS.

Once they get a look at his vintage '08 YES WE CAN bumper sticker collection THE PANTIES HIT THE FLOOR.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if he could find at least one proggie chick that's like that.

I notice left-wing female political activists tend to take politics so personally that they're attracted to guys who repeat their talking points, even if they're fuck ugly.

[juris imprudent]

Couldn't help it - I laughed.

[Pathogen]

Alan Franklin ?@alanfranklin 2m
@DLoesch Not from the government, Dana. Don't be silly, we get lots of grants, but none of them--not one--involves your taxpayer dollars.

But.. what does it mean?

[Irish]

I don't think Progressnow Colorado got any money from the government to make these ads. He was getting attacked by conservatives for 'taking government money' which he didn't actually do.

Of course, that doesn't change how atrocious the ads are.

[Pathogen]

Yeah, fair enough... I just wonder where his grant 'Donor$' got it...

[CatoTheElder]

From the website:

ProgressNow Colorado Education is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, so your donations are deductible for federal income tax purposes.

Proggies count tax deductions as "tax expenditures" of the Federal government.

So, yes, by progressive definitions, they DO get federal tax expenditures.

[playa manhattan]

Dude has been pretty busy on twitter today.

[Sevo]

Obo went to a amateur political HACK for the ads?!
Un-f-ing believable! The biggest program of your entire political career and you hire some fucking self-described 'loose cannon' to pitch those who are going to make or break your ass?
'Hey, I got a cousin who's pretty clever with words. maybe he could come up with something!'
OK, any of you claiming there is a grand scheme to arrive at single-payer, I present the evidence right here of gross incompetence!

[Irish]

I don't think they were government ads. I think they were just put out by Progress Now Colorado.

[Sevo]

So Obo isn't controlling what goes out over his name? I mean the ads have 'O'care' all over them.
Maybe they were free, but they're worth every penny of that to Obo; he's gonna own them forever.

[CatoTheElder]

Check out this inspiring gem on the HHS Healthy Young Americans propaganda website:

We are not invincible

Scroll down to the video. This was the Early Bird winner of the Young Invincibles propaganda campaign that Sebellius announced.

[Sevo]

So Remy didn't win?
The fix was IN!

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Here's a nice story: Stray dog goes from almost starving in Indian trash dump to partially climbing Mount Everest

[playa manhattan]

I'm sure that dog realizes the importance of Mount Everest. Way more important than food.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

He seems pretty happy in the pictures.

[playa manhattan]

He's happy licking his own ass.

[Pathogen]

And you're not?

[Francisco d Anconia]

Wish I could reach.

[playa manhattan]

Yoga. But that would make me gay.

[Pathogen]

I'm told that you can pray that away, or some bullshit, soo... it's kinda like RU486, but for teh gayness.. anyway, you're free to lick your own ass, with no unwanted side-effects...

[jesse.in.mb]

Is auto-analinugus going to be the new rimming discussion?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I don't think that's going to catch on this late Jesse.

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm glad of that. Imagine of SugarFree got hold of the concept of auto-analingus!?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

He hasn't already?

[jesse.in.mb]

Knowing him, he just inceptioned it into our minds.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I think I'd feel better if he were Freddy Krueger instead of Leo DiCaprio.

Unless it was Ellen Paige, she can enter my dreams anytime.

I guess you can you have Tom Hardy.

[Irish]

HAHAHAHAHA!

Progress Now Colorado is the gift that keeps on giving. Here is a quote from Amy Runyon-Harms, another of the people behind the Obamacare ads, talking about the one with the girl and the birth control pills.

As for the promiscuous ads featuring birth-control, Runyon-Harms said "people get upset when you portray women as independent."

Yes. Nothing says 'independent woman' like having their birth control given to them by the government. What isn't independent about having free shit provided to you by the state?

[playa manhattan]

Also, nothing says "independent woman" like needing birth control so that you can get the right guy to fuck you without a condom.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

And she probably won't even orgasm either!

[playa manhattan]

Feminism!

[jesse.in.mb]

Look reproductive freedom means the right to have as many or as few children as you want regardless of financial circumstances.

To paraphrase Mel Gibson: You can never take her freeeeeedddommmmmmm!

[juris imprudent]

The whole intention of these ads is to raise awareness...

And it worked - I am now aware of just how retarded progressives in Colorado are.

[Sevo]

"The whole intention of these ads is to raise awareness..."

'Hey, I'm a comedian! (when I'm lying out my ass)'

[Sevo]

The shit ball that made them or the .org he 'works' for has pulled those ads. Try clicking on any direct link to them and you'll get an 'exceeds bandwidth' notice.
Somebody got to him and the easiest way to shut 'em down was limit the bandwidth.
I'm sure by now they're spread all over the web, so the miserable prick is still in trouble with Obo.

[playa manhattan]

Oh God Damn It! Where do I donate for more bandwidth?

[Pathogen]

Yes, I agree... The show must go on!...

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Back when men were men--and people had the attention span to read comic strip advertisements.

Cigarette company taking advantage of US military buildup to advertise "Army Man's Favorite Cigarette- the Camel": pic.twitter.com/GwpJtR6zUB

? WW2 Tweets from 1941 (@RealTimeWWII) November 12, 2013

[removed][removed]

[jesse.in.mb]

Why is he holding a cigarette the way Buddy Cole does at 1:45?

[Pathogen]

Don't question our heroes in uniform!... Commie!

[jesse.in.mb]

I never said it was a bad thing.

[Pathogen]

Apology accepted...

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

For God's sake Bobby, what nationality are you? Why are you holding your cigarette like some European Nazi in a movie?

[Pathogen]

"Nothing says 'independent woman' like having" the government softly condescend to you in a puerile ad campaign , while essentially saying.. "Look, slut.. you are obviously incapable of any personal responsibility, or any control over your baser instincts... but we aren't here to judge you, any how.. we think it best if you plan with a little bit of prudent pre-emption, and we will provide a little rational judgment for you, on your behalf... You will be free to go on in a consequence-free pursuit of your sexual liberation, if you will allow us a little control over your "reproductive choices?", we support your sexual liberation.. but we want you to use rubbers/the pill... it's just better that way, we'll take care of you... just sign here and here.. "

[playa manhattan]

No, just the pill. For load blowing purposes.

[Pathogen]

Don't sugarcoat it, man...

[playa manhattan]

No need to slut shame, bro.

[Pathogen]

I would never shame sluts.. However...

[Tman]

How does this guy sleep at night?

Gotta be mounds of Ambien.

[Pathogen]

I imagine every night looks something like this for that lying sack-o'-shit..

[Pathogen]

Or... this...

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

I swear Jay Carney looks as if he could snap at any given moment. I'm glad he most likely does not own any guns.

[jesse.in.mb]

Jay Carney seems more like the "nervous exhaustion" type to me.

[playa manhattan]

This dude?
http://images3.wikia.nocookie......_Tweak.png

[CatoTheElder]

The same way Baghdad Bob did, I suppose.

His job is to lie to the press, and he does his job reasonably well.

It's easy to criticize Carney for the transparency of his lies. But think how hard it must be to lie, know you're lying, know that hearers know you're lying, and know that hearers know that you know that they know that you're lying to them. It requires a lot of talent to do that day after day. I don't know a single soul who could lie with the talent that Carney does.

[Pathogen]

"I don't know a single soul who could lie with the talent that Carney does."

And you assume that sociopathic shitheap, Carney.. actually has a soul..

Look into Carney's eyes... You know the thing about Carney, he's got... lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eye. When he starts bullshitting ya, he doesn't seem to be livin'. Until you question Obama's competence, and those black eyes roll over white. And then, ah then you hear that terrible high pitch screamin'...

[Francisco d Anconia]

I'll never put on a life jacket again.

[PapayaSF]

I know others have said this, but i just wanted to chime in. I knew the exchanges wouldn't be ready in time, but I didn't think it would be this bad. I knew rates would go up, and that people would lose their policies, but I didn't think it would happen this fast, this hard, and to this many people. I knew this would be a black mark (sorry) for Obama and the Democrats, but I didn't think it would be this big, this soon, with big Democrats like Clinton and DiFi chiming in a mere six weeks after Healthcare.gov "opened for business."

This could really be a major political turning point. Now, what the GOP and libertarians need to do is come up with some "common sense"-sounding, free-market fixes for this mess, and sell the heck out of them in 2014 and 2016. Let's have a major deregulation of health insurance and health care. Freedom, innovation, let a thousand new approaches bloom.

[Ken Shultz]

"Let's have a major deregulation of health insurance and health care. Freedom, innovation, let a thousand new approaches bloom."

With all these people losing the health insurance policies they wanted at prices they could afford, it should be an easy sell:

If people were only free to buy the health insurance they want!

Barack Obama won't let you buy the health insurance you want. He vetoed your health insurance. If you want to be free to make choices for yourself, vote for me...

Women should be free to make choices about their own bodies--and men should, too! Vote Republitarian!

[Pathogen]

I wonder what the dems internal polling results are looking like... I suspect it's "sobering"...

[Ken Shultz]

Whether the people of Washington lose their health insurance or have to pay more for health insurance than they can afford isn't really important.

The important thing is that they keep voting for the same people they've been voting for all along, and that none of the people they vote for in the future are in any way associated with the Tea Party.

[General Butt Naked]

Hoo da fuk up in dis bich?

I got a new job and had to wake up at 4:30am to get there this morning and have to work tomorrow night, so I am trying to stay awake as long as possible as to sleep through the day.

I don't know why I work, it's fucking stoopid. I should just let you tax paying suckas allow me to live the way I am used to through the magic of obamacash.

Shit, with how much they take, from your payroll tax to your cell phone bill, is it really worth it to work? By working you're just giving the leeches a host. Fuck that.

Fuck it, I'm gonna be the anarcho-pied piper and lead you all to welfare heaven. We're gonna bleed the bitch dry. I'll be like that fuckin' guy with question marks all over his suit.

[Snark Plissken]

I'm up cause it's the morning here in socialist Europe.

[Biden's Scroteplugs]

how did Obama, with no business experience, figure out the primary business maxim of "overpromise and underdeliver"? people love that shit.