John F. Kennedy

John F. Kennedy Was No National Treasure

He was lawless, reckless, and anything but a national treasure


John F. Kennedy
Public Domain/NASA

Nov. 22 — a little over two weeks from now — will mark the 50th anniversary of President Kennedy's assassination in Dallas in 1963. But unless you're on a starvation-level "media diet," you probably knew that already.

Politico notes a looming "media tidal wave," with more than 100 new Kennedy books, dozens of TV specials and several new iPad apps accompanying the unhappy anniversary.

In a December 1963 interview, the president's widow gave a name to the Kennedy mystique, telling journalist Theodore White of Jack's fondness for the lyric from the Lerner and Loewe musical about King Arthur: "Once there was a spot, for one brief shining moment, that was known as Camelot."

Much more than a "moment," Camelot has proven an enduring myth.

JFK places near the top 10 in most presidential ranking surveys of historians, and in a 2011 Gallup poll, Americans ranked him ahead of George Washington in a list of "America's greatest presidents."

Kennedy's murder was a national tragedy, to be sure, but an honest assessment of his record shows that our lawless and reckless 35th president was anything but a national treasure.

Shortly after the then-Massachusetts Democratic senator announced his presidential candidacy, Kennedy gave a remarkable speech, titled "The Presidency in 1960," outlining a remarkably broad view of the president's duties and powers.

"Today a restricted concept of the presidency is not enough," JFK argued: the presidency must be "the center of moral leadership" — "we must endow that office with extraordinary strength and vision."

And the president "must be prepared to exercise the fullest powers of his office — all that are specified and some that are not."

Indeed, JFK rarely let legal specifics deter his exercise of presidential power. At his behest in 1961, the Internal Revenue Service set up a "strike force," the Ideological Organizations Project, targeting groups opposing the administration.

In 1962, outraged that American steel manufacturers had raised prices, he ordered wiretaps, IRS audits and dawn FBI raids on steel executives' homes.

In 2011, Pulitzer Prize-winning national security journalist Thomas E. Ricks opined that JFK "probably was the worst American president of the [20th] century."

In foreign policy, Ricks said, "he spent his 35 months in the White House stumbling from crisis to fiasco."

True enough, after being buffaloed into the disastrous Bay of Pigs operation by the CIA, Kennedy helped bring the world to the brink of thermonuclear war in the Cuban Missile Crisis — not because Soviet missiles in Cuba altered the strategic balance of power (they did not), but because, as former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara later admitted, the missiles were "politically unacceptable" for the president.

Moreover, Kennedy's aura of vitality and "vigah" depended on deliberate lies about his medical fitness for office: "I never had Addison's disease … my health is excellent," JFK told a reporter in 1961.

As Kennedy biographer Richard Reeves notes, JFK, who "received the last rites of the Catholic Church at least four times as an adult," was "something of a medical marvel, kept alive by complicated daily combinations of pills and injections," including a psychiatrically dangerous cocktail of painkillers and amphetamines regularly administered by celebrity physician Max "Dr. Feelgood" Jacobson.

Meanwhile, the man who'd pronounced the presidency America's "center of moral leadership" exhibited near-pathological promiscuity with a succession of starlets and stewardesses, groping his way through the White House with all the delicacy of San Diego mayor Bob Filner (though, admittedly, with much more success).

Viewed up close, without the gauze of sentimentality, it's not a pretty picture: "America's prince" looks more like the imperial presidency's Dorian Gray.

That may sound harsh, but 50 years after his passing is not too soon to take a clear-eyed look at JFK's legacy.

This article originally appeared at the Washington Examiner.

NEXT: A Short History of the New World Order

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  1. If Kennedy were making those speeches today, he’d be a rethuglitard teabagging wacko bird.

  2. Kennedy’s murder was a national tragedy

    A dead statist politician is a personal tragedy for the grieving family members. It’s not a national tragedy, unless you’re saying that compared to the even more statist bastard who became president upon his death, things got marginally worse.

    1. It put that racist piece of shit Lyndon Johnson in the White House. It was a disaster.

      1. Racist? You mean the guy who actually got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed? And the Voting Rights Act of 1965? And the Fair Housing Act?

        1. You mean the one he voted against twice?

          1. No, I don’t think so. The 1964 Act wasn’t proposed until after LBJ was out of Congress, and therefore not in a position to vote for or against it. On the other hand, he voted for the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960.

        2. Racist? You mean the guy who actually got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed?

          “I’ll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years.” – LBJ

          1. Oh, my bad. Use of the n-word undoes any of the good accomplished by, you know, actual action in favor of civil rights.

            1. His attempts to keep civil rights legislation from making it through the Senate when he ran the place are what makes him a racist. His behavior in the 60’s is what makes him a piece of shit.

              You wanna know why you need an expensive college degree (and the attendant student loan debt) to work in fields that you could with a high school degree 30 years ago? It’s LBJ’s doing.

              On the other hand I could be wrong and he wasn’t a racist, but merely believed in stomping niggers because it was what won elections in the first half of his career.

            2. Just because a law has “civil rights” in the name doesn’t make it a paramount moral achievement. The law is an affront to liberty.

        3. Ugggh…I hate having the “read a book” discussion about racism with Democrats.

        4. You mean the one who deliberately set out to make those “n*ggers” (his words) dependent on government through his Great Society programs?

        5. The one who brought the economic progress of black Americans to a screeching halt by figuring out how to turn them into sharecropper for votes? The one who cackled “I’ll have those niggers voting democratic for 100 years”?

          Yeah, that fucking racist.


        6. You can be more of an opportunist than a racist and still be a racist.

        7. You can be more of an opportunist than a racist and still be a racist.

    2. Oops. Beat me to it.

    3. I’d agree with you, but I think that what constitutes a national tragedy is determined by the broad feelings of the nation as a whole and not just a few anarchist/libertarians.

      1. If defining a national tragedy is an entirely subjective emotional event, I think the whole “new coke” debacle made a bigger splash on our psyche as a nation. This is why I don’t think the opinion of statists/two year olds/Democrats really matter all that much here.

  3. Compared to a totally worthless piece of shit like Block Yomomma, Kennedy was George Washington.

    I know that’s a really low standard, but sadly that’s where we are now.

    1. I disagree, Kennedy was arguably the worst President not to start a civil war. Nobody in BO’s American thought they’d wake up to a mushroom cloud because of the President didn’t want to look bad. Sure you lose your health insurance, but nuclear war, unlike not having health insurance, is associated with a higher chance to die.

  4. in a 2011 Gallup poll, Americans ranked him ahead of George Washington in a list of “America’s greatest presidents.”


    1. Boomers, dude. Its all about them.

      1. Initially read as “boners.”

        I like my version more.

    2. Did George Washington bang Marilyn Monroe and a Mafia moll? And that’s just the Ms.

      1. Actually, George Washington was quite the ladies man and there’s at least some evidence that he took advantage of the ladies admiration, if you know what I mean. Victorian times and the 20th century resurgence of puritanism put an end to the stories about what kind of scallywags the founders actually were.

        Although a few historians believe that George Washington was a womanizer and some of his friends called him the “Stallion of the Potomac,…

        1. Although it is necessary to point out that the above quote continues, “there is little evidence that this was the case.”

    3. We don’t teach history anymore. Most people have no idea what Washington actually did. Sad but true.

      1. I didn’t know how awesome Calvin Coolidge was until I got out of college.

        1. I had no idea how awesome Washington was until I was out of college. Yeah, I knew he was the first President and all. But I had no idea how wise he actually was and how he could have made himself king or dictator and chose not to.

          1. Yeah. Back then I really think our countrymen were fundamentally different; everyone had to work for everything they ever had, and I mean actually claw & scratch for it. They knew the value of each individual’s labor. They just wanted to be left alone to make money.

            1. I have a LOT in common with our forebears, cause I, too, just want to be left alone to make money.


              1. Oh HECK yes. Right there with you.

            2. Someone put up on the AM links that it was Charles Bronson’s birthday and gave his wiki biography. He was born not speaking English and so poor he once had to wear his sister’s dress to school because he had no other clothes. He went to work in the coal mines after his father died when he was like 13. And his reward was serving in World War II when he was 18 and getting a purple heart.

              People who grow up hard and have to work for what they have, usually, though not always, have a sense of both how hard life is and how easily the lights can go out. Now we grow up with things given to us and we start to think the world is easy and is about appearances and feeling and emotions rather than hard work and competence. When we start thinking like that we fall prey to government and politicians offering easy solutions and nice language.

              1. When we start thinking like that we fall prey to government and politicians offering easy solutions and nice language.

                Precisely the problem; people think they can be “given” a solution. No problem is ever solved without actual work.

                1. I dunno – people who are assholes who die “solves” the problem of…those people, without any work at all.

                  Of course, their death often leads to OTHER assholes stepping on the scene, but…

                  1. But wouldn’t the problem be resolved faster if someone did some work to help those assholes die?

          2. Not so fast – if he’d made himself king we’d at least have been spared the current ass-clown, not to mention more than a few others. One nice thing about kings and dictators – when things go south, you only have one throat to that needs to be choked.

            1. How do you know the current ass-clown wouldn’t’ve been born in the body of someone in that dynasty? Are you one of those who think in genetic terms, i.e. that someone could only have been a particular couple’s child, and couldn’t’ve had any other embodiment?

        2. The same with Harding and Cleveland, and I had to unlearn the supposed awesomeness of Wilson.

          1. I am good with Harding. But, I don’t know, Cleveland always seemed like a let down.

          2. Same here with Wilson. I wrote a paper on him in college back in my progressive days. I can’t remember how I did, but if I were to write that paper now, I’d probably get an F.

          3. How about unlearning the FDR mythology? When I was studying the truth of the Great Depression and the New Deal, I felt like Neo unplugging from the Matrix, it was almost weird. We had the heroic legend of FDR beat into our heads.

            1. Read Paul Johnson’s Modern Times. That will unlearn you of about 90% of the bullshit you were taught in school. If I were dictator, it would be required reading for every high school senior in America.

      2. My HS history teacher, who I liked so much I took an elective with (and liked her less when she made me read Atlas Shrugged), told me the story of a teacher-in-training who she had to basically rubber room after hearing him teach that Kennedy won in a landslide. He then pestered her for a recommendation after she demurred. So she wrote him an honest letter of reference.

        Everyone should have a teacher/mentor explain why you shouldn’t ask someone a second time if they say “no, thank you” to your first request for a reference.

        1. Hah, I don’t suppose you can recall any choice bits from this honest letter?

          1. She summarized it: “He claims to have a history degree and has only a tenuous grasp of at least recent US history. I would not hire him.”

      3. In my high school history basically stopped at WW2. There was far more coverage of medieval European history than post-WW2… and WW2 itself was scant and totally ignored the Western betrayal of Eastern Europe, among many other things. Mostly “the Holocaust and Hitler were bad.” I still remember talking with a Holocaust survivor that was brought out as a guest speaker and being in rapt attention.

        The public school Revolutionary War coverage wasn’t that bad, though. And college… well, I thought ASU was a seething hive of Marxism when I was going there, and it’s way worse now as far as I can tell.

        1. It is amazing how people of all political stripes in this country have internalized various forms of Marxist bullshit as “truth”. Nearly everyone seems to believe that people hate other people because of poverty or oppression. That is straight up Marxist claptrap. But people on all sides believe it as fact.

          1. Exactly this – people across the political spectrum accept the Marxist premise that EVERYTHING is class struggle, EVERYTHING is “follow the money,” and then they scratch their heads and don’t understand why people don’t behave “rationally.”

        2. My sixth and ninth grade teachers taught that the Soviet Union was an improvement for the lives of the average Russian over the czarist rulers. My freshman year, I had the good fortune of having a Russian history professor who set us straight about that period of time. From the 1880s until WWI the standard of living improved at a rapid rate, and then fell and never recovered after the Revolution.

        3. We had post-WWII history as an elective. The required US history course stopped at the end of the war.

        4. My HS history teachers made a point of pushing through to Vietnam, since they were ex-SDS guys who wanted to continue the struggle and let us know how evil the US was.

          The number of outright fictions we were taught was staggering.

          I think that’s why mostly they didn’t want to come too current with HS history classes – there’s no way they won’t be politicized one way or another.

      4. Actually, Washington is, to me, a weird case – almost too perfect. With the rest of the founding fathers you get a sense of their idiosyncrasies and quirks that you get a sense of who they are. With Washington, all you get is this really decent and impressive guy.

        As a side note, one of the cooler bits of reading I did not too long ago was about Washington as a businessman. He realized that selling crops to England was a sucker’s game and switched Mount Vernon’s production to production consumed domestically where he could demand the premium (well, smaller) that London was charging the colonists. He wound up one of the country’s richest men and its largest distiller.

        1. And then put down the Whiskey Rebellion as President, which helped out his distillery, although that probably wasn’t his goal.

          He also bought a few hundred thousand acres in the Ohio valley before independence and then voted in the Virginia legislature to make it legal.

          So not quite as pure as legend would have it, but 99.94% good enough.

        2. I was under the impression that Washington became one of the country’s richest men by marrying that rich widow Martha.

          But it is true that he earned a lot of money, as well. Unlike Jefferson, who was horrible at business and always deep in debt.

          1. Yes, he married rich. But, he managed the money VERY well. Most southern planters would have seen Mount Vernon mount debt. Washington saw it build wealth.

  5. an honest assessment of his record shows that our lawless and reckless 35th president was anything but a national treasure. That may sound harsh

    Why would it be harsh? Is it harsh to criticize you-know-who because he was driven to suicide?

    1. Kurt Cobain? Naw – he deserves all the criticism.

      1. I think he was referring to Papa Hemingway.

        1. Yeah, that makes sense.

          Wait – now I’m thinking maybe he meant Hunter S. Thompson…

        2. WTF! There you go again with the shitty education system. I was taught Hemingway was shot by an elephant in self defense. Fucking teachers.

      2. Courtney hired El Duce to murder Kurt.

        El Duce put a shotgun in my chest once. That was the day I stopped taking drugs.

        1. HA!! He once fronted, IIRC, the Mentors at Tallahassee’s Cow Haus in 96 or 97. He passed out during the second song and we all took turns kicking him and pissing on him. This was also the only show that Tally’s surprisingly large contingent of white-power skinheads turned up for; a great brawl ensued and a good time was had by all.

  6. What difference, at this point, does it make?

    We’re still fucked.

  7. …”Kennedy’s murder was a national tragedy,”…

    The death of any given politico is a tragedy for his or her family, just like any other death.

  8. I used to think that Nixon did the right thing resigning and not putting the country through an impeachment trial. Now I wish he had. The problem with him resigning is that it allowed the Democrats to pin all of the abuse on him personally. This caused Americans to think the problem was one bad guy in the White House. Had Nixon gone to trial and presented his planned defense, which was that nothing he did was any worse than what Kennedy and Johnson had done and in fact many of the things they did were worse, it would have caused the public to realize the problem was with both parties and with the institutions themselves. And that would have done a whole lot of good and been worth the price of the a trial.

    1. The problem with him resigning is that it allowed the Democrats to pin all of the abuse on him personally.

      As shitty as Nixon was, at least he was willing to accept responsibility for his actions. Chocolate Nixon is missing that component.

      Note: I base Nixon’s shittiness purely on the establishment of the EPA.

      1. He did a lot of shitty things in office and was a bad guy if for no other reason than he allowed himself to be surrounded by really bad guys.

        But when you look at the corrupt and abusive things he actually did, they pale in comparison to the things Johnson and Kennedy did. Johnson bugged MLK and then played tapes of King banging one of his mistresses to a party at the White House.

        1. Well, Kennedy got his – his family gets to see his head go, “…BACK, and to the LEFT…” every year.

          Fuck all of ’em.

      2. I’d say it was far more things than just the expansion of the EPA. Institutionalizing Affirmative Action, the NEP, freezing wages, closing the gold window, endorsing Keynesianism in general, negotiating with the Norks, too clever by half arrangement of arms dealing in Cambodia, nominating the weirdo Kissinger, etc.

        Having said that, he did the bravest thing I’ve ever seen on film of a president. The night of the Kent State shootings, he personally met with protestors, surrounded by them, outside the White House. That could have easily turned ugly, but he stood there and had a dialog with them. I could not imagine Obama being a crowd of Tea Partiers having a dialog, it would not happen.

      3. And the War on Drugs

  9. JFK’s popularity stems from

    (a) being Catholic, I’m sorry to say – he redeemed the tragedy of the martyr Al Smith and was a symbol of Catholics, formerly a poor despised minority, becoming accepted as full Americans (though the election was more an effect of this than a cause)

    (b) the tragedy of an “early death,” to which may be added the related point,

    (c) fantasies of what he could have done – that is, if he’d lived he would have done whatever the person thinks he should have done, from getting out of Vietnam to healing the nation etc. One might think that if fantasies of what a Pres could have done if he hadn’t gotten offed is the criterion, James Garfield would be the bestest President ever. Garfield never had the chance to mess anything up, and you can’t prove he *wouldn’t* have solved the problems of the day. Plus he was a real military hero whose fame didn’t rely on wrecking his submarine.

    1. It’s not as if Catholics could look with pride at Roger Taney, first Catholic Chief Justice.

      1. But if they could put Kennedy on a pedestal, why not Taney?

    2. That is about right, especially C. He became the great “what if” to the 1960s and the blank slate upon which people projected all of their hopes that ended in failure.

      1. Hitchens once wrote something that I think dismantles the mythological fallacy of “What if Kennedy had won a second term?”

        “What is not recognized, with Kennedy, that the job of the historian is to record and evaluate what actually did happen?” – Christopher Hitchens

        1. Exactly. We will never know the counter factual so there is no point dwelling on it or using it as any justification or explanation for what actually happened.

          1. Actually, it seems clear there wouldn’t have been much going on, even assuming he won re-election. JFK couldn’t pass any of the Great Society bullshit, because he wasn’t the wheeler dealer Johnson was. He probably would have continued being a bumbling, drugged out whore monger, and the nation would have been all the better for it.

            1. Without Kennedy’s death, the Dems would have never gotten the freakish majorities that passed the great society. So yeah, we can lay a lot of the blame for the great society on Oswald.

            2. And, although it was a year out, a re-election wasn’t guaranteed.

        2. I’ve sometimes thought about “What if Nixon had won in 1960?” The effects that not having Kennedy & Johnson in the White House, and not having Goldwater’s loss, would have meant to Civil Rights, the Vietnam War, Cuba, etc

        3. Ironic, considering Hitch is guilty of doing precisely the same thing with that fuckwad Trotsky.

    3. (d) He was so dreamy! *sounds of women fainting*

      1. If you don’t think that was part of the attraction, just remember the “It’s more fun to fuck Obama than Romney” ad from last year’s election.

        1. You mean the one by Lena “Here Comes Hipster Boo-Boo” Dunham?

      2. “(d) He was so dreamy! *sounds of women fainting*”

        EXACTLY! Kennedy was just a pretty Richard Nixon.

    4. Submarine? PT boat? What difference, at this point, does it make?

      1. One of those is MADE to sink into the water.

        Those Kennedy brothers had their share of trouble with vessels they piloted sinking, didn’t they?

        1. Yes, but as that one guy in the New Yorker once wrote, Mary Jo would have loved Ted Kennedy had he not killed her because of all the great things he fought for in the Senate.

        2. Yeah. 0-3. Lesson to Kennedys – stay away from water.

        3. Yeah in fact that family generally has a problem with vechicles that get near water. Planes, ships, cars… so far no trains have sunk with Kennedys aboard but I’m not booking a ticket on Amtrack until I know either a) no Kennedy will be aboard or b) the trips doesn’t have a bridge or ferry.

      2. OK, I was thinking of submersible craft for some reason.

        1. Oh, so you weren’t thinking about Volkswagens.

    5. James Garfield; or William Henry Harrison?

      1. He wasn’t shot, he just ignored his mother’s advice about coming in out of the rain. That just doesn’t create the martyrdom ambience.

        1. Fair Enough

    6. – he redeemed the tragedy of the martyr Al Smith and was a symbol of Catholics, formerly a poor despised minority, becoming accepted as full Americans

      Good grief. My Catholic forbears have been here since 1755 and thrived. Was there hostility? Yes, but not without a good reason. The church then was not the mostly passive entity you see now. It was still a politically ambitious organization that sought advantage and meddled in affairs where it didn’t belong. Protestant skepticism was a sign of good mental health and lack of decadence on their part.

      1. I was talking about the very real (if not necessarily accurate) myth of Kennedy’s election being a Victory for All American Catholics. I don’t but it myself.

        I’ve been doing a bit of research on Catholic involvement in public life, and they were never “passive.” In the early Republic, their focus was on preserving themselves and their flock in the face of all the challenges of a new country, including attacks from Protestants and anti-immigrants. If anything, the early American Church can be blamed for not intervening *enough* in an “issue where it didn’t belong” – slavery.

        Today the American Church has increased its assertiveness on matters outside of institutional defense.

        1. That wasn’t the motivation of the Church. They were not happy with French liberals and political establishment helping the colonist in the America, even though it was to the national political advantage of the French. When a non monarchical government was formed, they thought it proved them right. The Church was hostile to the very existence of the US for the first century of our nationhood, and supported the secessionist during the Civil War for that reason. The reigning pope at the time even hand crafted Jefferson Davis a crown of thorns as a gift when Davis was imprisoned.

          1. [channeling Lomberg]

            Uh, yeah, I’m gonna have to disagree with you there. The European Church, relying on some Papal pronouncements, had some harsh things to say about French-style liberalism, and so the the American Church, but the American Church distinguished between French-style liberalism (atheistic and suppressing the Church) and American-style liberalism (friendly to religion and except for the occasional nativist eruption leaving the Church to grow and prosper).

            Re Davis – the Vatican expressed support for a Union victory so the US could be a counterbalance to the English. Because of the bloodshed, Pius IX issued a peace appeal, to which Davis but not Lincoln replied, and Pius answered Davis.

            Midway in the war, exaggerated reports of Confederate success, plus misleading reports that the Confederates were open to gradual emancipation instead of Lincoln’s immediate emancipation, led many at the Vatican (including editors of their quasi-official newspapers) to take an anti-Northern approach. Even then, they censored and censured a pro-Confederate bishop for his proslavery views.

            1. On the very eve of the Civil War, the Pope’s Secretary of State, Cardinal Antonelli, told the American minister that the USA was “the only free country in the world.”

    7. Also, you have to remember it was the dawn of the television age. He was basically the first TV president. And, you have that baby boomer thing as well, as someone mentioned earlier.

  10. “…exhibited near-pathological promiscuity with a succession of starlets and stewardesses…”

    One finger on the red button, the other one on Marilyn!

    Go Jack Go!

    1. I have to admit going through life whacked out on pain killers banging various starlets at my leisure shows if nothing else, Kennedy knew how to live. I would hate him more if I wasn’t so damned envious.

      1. Eh, Elvis basically did the same thing, but at least he’s not overrated as a singer and entertainer. Kennedy’s probably the most overrated President ever.

  11. You forgot to mention that he dissed Sinatra and that’s just…that’s just unforgivable.

    1. JFK dissed Sinatra. Then Sam Giancana had JFK whacked, as a favor to Sinatra. Not that Sinatra ordered it, but just because he was a friend of Sinatra.

      1. The better mob theory is that Robert Kennedy deported Santo Trafficanti who vowed revenge. One of Trafficanti’s capos had a loser nephew named Lee Harvey Oswald. The mob then put Oswald up to doing it, which wasn’t hard since Oswald was a committed communist and hated Kennedy for his treatment of Cuba. The mob assured Oswald, who wasn’t true bright, that they would help him escape after he did the deed. They of course did not do that figuring the cops would shoot him when they found him. When he was arrestee alive, the mob called a local Dallas strip club owner who had been missing his protection payments and operating an unauthorized gambling operation named Jack Ruby. They told Ruby, who had lot of contacts with the police and thus was the only one they knew had any chance of getting to Oswald, that he could either kill Oswald and they would take care of his family provided he didn’t talk or not kill Oswald in which case he and his family would die horrible deaths.

        So Ruby says yes and goes down to the Dallas Jail on Sunday morning hoping to work some of his connections and figure out a way to get at Oswald. He walks in and damned if Oswald isn’t standing right there. So Ruby takes his chance and kills him.

        And thus we have how the mob killed Kennedy.

        1. There was a program on PBS’s American Experience titled “Oswald’s Ghost” that tells a similar story, if I remember correctly.

      2. Fuck that back stabber, Frank Sinatra, fucking around with Humphrey Bogart’s wife.

        1. No way. Sinatra didn’t fuck around with Bacall until after Bogart was dead.

          1. I recall one biography describing the two driving around the desert of California drinking and shooting random objects with a pistol while Bogart was still alive. It also claimed Sinatra was fucking her while Bogart was dying of cancer.

            1. Interesting. They were close friends, maybe Bogart was cool with it?

              1. That is a possibility that I have to seriously consider. If you aren’t to the task for medical reasons to pleasing your hot, young wife, it would make sense to have a close friend do her than see her messing around with complete strangers with their own agendas.

          2. My favorite Sinatra story involves him and Joe DiMaggio getting drunk in Los Angeles one evening shortly after Joe’s divorce from Marilyn Monroe and deciding to go beat up Monroe’s current boy friend. They find a guy who they knew knew where the guy lived and ask them to take them there. The guy knowing this could end badly takes them to the wrong apartment. So DiMaggio and Sinatra kick in the door to find a middle aged widow sitting alone in her apartment watching TV. Checks were written and things fixed so this whole thing was kept quiet.

            But can you imagine sitting in your apartment in the 1950s and having Joe DiMaggio and Frank Sinatra kick down your door? What the hell must that woman have thought? Who could you tell that story to that would believe you?

      3. nah, LBJ had him whacked to give himself the White House (if JFK served out two terms Johnson would have been nearing 70). Johnson never liked Kennedy, and likely used LBJ’s reckless ways, described here, to get a few necessary others to go along with the scheme (instead of it being about LBJ’s lust for office, he could pose it as saving the country from JFK).

  12. OT: I was up WAY late Saturday, and “Team America” came on. Watched the whole thing with my dogs, laughing out loud and repeating the jokes for them.

    You know what movie NEVER gets old? “Team America: World Police” never gets old.


    1. No movie that includes a number like “Everyone Has AIDS” or shows Micheal Moore as a suicide bomber could ever get old.

      1. +1 Dirkha Dirkha Muhammed Jihad!

    2. I like to watch it on the 4th of July. I think we should adopt “America, Fuck Yeah” as the national anthem.

      1. Also rocking in the USA

  13. Sometimes man you jsut have to roll with the punches.

  14. My great uncle was a secret service agent for Kennedy (not on detail when he was shot) but he was a guy that liked to take advantage of women in hotel rooms. One story of JFK from my uncle, was JFK was in a hotel room, when my young uncle heard a woman screaming, when my uncle went to go see what was going on, senior agents told my uncle “you only go in if she calls you by name!” Many more stories have been told about JFK that would curl up your socks.

    1. There was a biography of Joe Kennedy Sr. that came out a few years ago. It has some real gross shit in it about how Joe used to take his then teenage sons to whore houses and such. I have nothing against prostitutes or the people who see them. But something about watching dad cheat on mom with a hooker and then having the same hooker that would probably leave you with a bit of a warped view of women and sex.

      1. It sounds like the medieval shit they did in Turkey in the 60’s and 70’s (and probably before).

        Sex ed consisted of dad taking teenage son to see a prostitute who initiated him in how to make the beast with two backs.

        Also lots of anal sex to permit the bride to be a virgin on the wedding day. Parading the bloody sheets was however considered very passe.

    2. My favorite Kennedy-related thought was the realiz’n that the Luthors on Smallville represented the Kennedy family, hilariously.

  15. I will be celebrating the 50th anniversary of Dr. Who.

  16. Who killed JFK?

    LBJ? Mob? CIA? Anti-Castro? Pro-Castro?

    All of the above.

    LBJ Edward Clark Malcolm Wallace

    Carlos Marcello Tony Accardo Sam Giancana Johnny Roselli / Charles Nicoletti

    William Harvey Cord Meyer David Atlee Phillips

    Oswald, whether actually behind one of the rifles or not, is nothing but a massive historic red herring, the only known assassin in modern history to have his target come right to him (his 6-week job site, anyway) driving by nice and slow(ed down) in a perfectly convenient little fire zone on the street below.

    1. Goddamn html.

      :LBJ – Edward Clark – Malcolm Wallace

      :Carlos Marcello – Tony Accardo — Sam Giancana – Johnny Roselli / Charles Nicoletti

      :William Harvey – Cord Meyer – David Atlee Phillips

    2. Sometimes you get lucky. Look at Jack Ruby. He walked into the police department and had his target walk right past him. No way was that planned.

      But yeah, Oswald was the perfect guy to put up to such a crime. I have no doubt he was the lone shooter. But I would not be surprised at all if someone like the Mafia or whoever put him up to doing it on the assurance that they would take care of him and or his wife after he did.

      The thing about Oswald is that he was a moron. He was totally the type of guy who would play the sucker in such a scheme.

      1. I think Oswald was certainly stunted, but by no means stupid or unintelligent. Yes, he did have connections to Marcello but also was way way too spooky (i.e. intelligence community connected) in the things he was involved in pre-Dallas to be some random disgruntled shlub. He was simply a well sheep-dipped patsy who knew he had been burned big-time.

        It’s written all over his face while in custody, the obvious disgust at being set-up, while still trying to maintain some semblance of his cover as a mysterious commie wacko, which even then was a bit too well-rehearsed (or prepped, as the case may be), as some of the Dallas PD interrogators noted later. What you see in his mannerisms and demeanor is not “yeah, I got him now the world knows who I am” but more like “those mother fuckers…(set me up).” The clincher is his expression when a reporter informs him he’s been charged with assassinating the President (which Oswald himself didn’t know at that point).

        Ruby was mobbed up to the hilt and ordered to hit Oswald, with a little help (or incredible negligence) from Dallas PD to get to where he needed to be at the right moment. He was a hot mess and almost blew it. His luck was not pulling off a freak, spur-o-the-moment shooting, but in not fucking up what he knew his life depended on finishing before Oswald made it to safer custody. It was Ruby who was promised he would be taken care of by the Mob, let off light by the Texas justice system.

        1. Oswald was stupid. He leaves a rifle he bought at the scene of a crime with his finger prints on it. No way would a decent mob guy do that. All Oswald had to do was steal the rifle, make sure his prints were not on it and sit tight in the building after they closed it off. They could have never proven he was the shooter. But he left because he was stupid and someone told him he had a place to go.

          1. A lot of assumptions behind the assumption that Oswald left anything anywhere, much less his crappy old rifle near the supposed sniper’s nest.

            Oswald’s paraffin test within hours of the shooting came up negative for firing a rifle (i.e. nothing on his face or cheek etc). Positive for firing a pistol, yes. But not a rifle. And anyone who’s ever fired a Carcano, whether the carbine version or any other variation, can tell you that your face would be loaded with residue, even from just one shot.

            What looks like stupidity by Oswald is exactly why it is such an obvious set-up, given so many other factors and the extremely complex factual and contextual realities of the assassination.

            I mean, really…”oh, how convenient, here’s his rifle. Oh, and look he left his wallet, and what’s this…a signed confession too!” It’s all too obvious and easy, again given so much else and so many others with dubious connection both to Oswald and the event itself + much more to gain by offing Kennedy than Oswald could ever possibly have.

            1. Oswald went home and changed clothes after he left the building. He probably washed his hands and face as well. That explains the test.

              And a Carcano is just a mauser. It is not crappy. It is just bolt action.

              Oswald did the shooting. There is no doubt about that. No reason for him to have left the building had he not been the shooter.

              1. You can’t just wash off powder residue, it literally requires hot wax to lift off in close time proximity to firing. But I’m sure Oswald also shaved and kicked back with a beer too, ya know, after shooting the President.

                And yes, Carcanos are much much crappier than Mausers by a long shot. The action is loose as a goose, the bolt has about almost a one inch play left to right when extended, the clips are sticky and uneven when dropped into the integrated magazine…generally just Italian junk. That said, there is also evidence there was a Mauser found on the 6th floor, a 2ND rifle, a 7.65mm.

                As far as leaving the building, he likely had an idea what was happening and left. He was not likely one of the shooters but was involved in the plot, whether being told he had infiltrated it or as a co-conspirator unaware he was being set up.

                Do some more research, the details are not as cut and dried as you seem to think John. I’m not saying Oswald’s clean. But he was no lucky lone nut assassin by a long shot.

                1. My understanding is that it is a shitty rifle. And that it’s mind-boggling that Oswald would pick that gun—that he ordered mail-order!—to go assassinate people with.

                  Remember, he tried to kill General Walker a few months prior to shooting Kennedy. Fucked it up, missed, and didn’t follow up his shot. Which I dunno if it makes it more or less likely that he stuck it out to fire three shots on Kennedy after probably putting the first one into a tree branch or stoplight overhang.

                  But one peculiarity of the 6.5 mm Carcano makes it more likely for me that Oswald actually did fire at least some of the shots that made the hits. The surplus ammo used by Oswald utilized a 162 grain bullet (of .268 inch diameter, not the .264 you’d expect for a 6.5, like the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser). This is incredibly heavy for the caliber, resulting in a higher sectional density than you’d expect for a rifle bullet, .322. It takes about 210 grains in .308 to get a similar SD. Higher SD means better penetration, all else remaining equal. The elephant hunter Karamojo Bell was known for using a 6.5 Mannlicher in 6.5 x 55, with 160 grain bullets on elephants. Further the low (~2200) muzzle velocity of the Carcano meant that it’d be less likely that the FMJ bullet would fragment or have it’s jacket separate from the core.

                  In short, it’d be hard to devise a rifle cartridge more likely to exhibit the behavior of “the magic bullet” than a 6.5 Carcano.

    3. I’m partial to the theory that John Kennedy died accidentally as a combination of Oswald’s shooting him while aiming for Connally and then Geo. Hickey’s gun going off accidentally and blowing JFK’s brains out while Hickey was preparing to return fire at the Book Depository.

      1. The problem with the Mortal Error scenario is that no one saw a muzzle flash or smoke from Hickey’s M-16 (or AR-15, not sure which it was). Or saw a case fly out. Or heard a 5.56 go off, in the open air and not partially muffled by the walls of the Sniper’s Nest. No one near Hickey heard a gun shot? Seems far-fetched.

        But if it did happen, an old-school 55 grain 5.56 M193, at that close range, hitting in the head? Yeah, I can see it fragmenting the bullet to dust. As well as most of the brain and skull under the entrance wound.

  17. The truth is most of out so called “great presidents” were not really all that great. To me, the best presidents are the ones no one remembers. Because they didn’t get us into any wars, didn’t have any major economic calamities on their watch (or if there were any they didn’t react by passing a massive “stimulus” spending bill and/or a gargantuan “reform” bill), didn’t push for any huge reform bills or try to “fundamentall transform” the country, didn’t expand the powers of their office…

    1. There is a lot of truth to that. To me a great President was Eisenhower. He got us out of Korea, kept us from getting into World War III at a time when that was a real possibility and his only big spending domestic program was building the interstates. Yeah, I know libertarians have a bitch with that. But, whatever your opinion, it is a pretty small sin when you compare it to those of the Presidents who came before and after him.

      The same can be said of Reagan. Sure he rolled over to Congress and spent to much. But he didn’t enact any major new welfare programs, he changed the tax system for the better, and he didn’t get us into a war. Not getting into a major war alone automatically puts a President out of the bottom quarter historically.

      1. First-term Cleveland. Term II was a disappointing sequel.

        1. I remember a historian on the History channel mentioning how in one presidency nothing happened. I think it was Harding.

    2. I’ve long thought the same thing. The ideal president would look pretty boring from the outside. Any major catastrophe or “exciting event” would be anticipated and responded to before it became particularly exciting.

      1. See Eisenhower, Dwight.

        1. Yeah, Ike comes to mind. Nice guy. Didn’t push the polity beyond it’s tolerance. Kind of played a quiet “stupid” game of chess that left the nation the freedom to be fat, dumb and happy. My personal “ideal” president would be libertarian Ike on steroids (sans the ‘roid rage).

  18. I suspect most here are too young to have had the opportunity to vote against Kennedy. Filling that bill I can assure you that in the run up to his election and throughout his Presidency, Kennedy enjoyed a media fellate that makes Obama’s pale in comparison.

    Kennedy called regular news conferences, would even walk into the White House press rooms mid day, unannounced, just to chat up the reporters. A typical press conference would have him field softball after softball while the female reporters slid off their chair and the men would trip over their boners. They were Chris Matthews to a person.

    Remembering any of the (3) national newscasts makes puke rise to scald my throat.

  19. Kennedy stole an election — and that’s a fact now.
    That alone makes him awful, but his awfulness has long been outdone by the current asshole in the White House.
    I really believe that Obama is trying to one-up JFK, LBJ and RMN in the cuntery department.
    BHO is a dictator, and not a benevolent one. He’s pathological.

    1. IOW, I’d rather have had our current disaster-in-chief taking a nice leisurely drive in downtown Dallas 50 years ago — not that I’m supporting such an act, of course.

  20. So what were all the painkillers for, exactly? All I ever hear about is the Addison’s disease, but that isn’t painfull. I’ve had it since 1980. It makes you weak and tired and stressed out all the time, but that’s not the same as pain.

    1. Enhanced orgasms?

    2. Wasn’t his back jacked up, both from his boat accident, and from some congenital spinal issue?

      On the boat accident, Obama would marvel at the whitewashing ability of the media and military then to not allow any dirt to stick to JFK’s name. The most likely reason for getting his command cut in half by a destroyer 4 times as long as his boat, is that his crew were asleep. Yeah, moonless night, sure. You can hear a friggin destroyer with all boilers going (as they were for good reason: it’d be killed by American bombers if it got caught in the Slot in daylight.) for miles. Miles. How do you not have the crew at GQ and the boat able to avoid collision? Not like the Japanese intentionally tried to run them down, or even light them up—I don’t know if the destroyer’s crew even saw them before the collision.

      Any other officer would be joining L. Ron Hubbard on the beach, but not JFK. Joe Kennedy Jr., OTOH, went out in a pretty brave manner. Which makes the Kennedy clan at least 0-4 when it comes to water.

  21. My last pay check was 9500 dolr working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is what I do———-

  22. Yet John F. Kennedy tried to put the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank out of business. He signed a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, with the authority to basically strip the Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest

    Perhaps this upset the oligarch. see:…..eserve.htm

  23. 3 presidents who tried to remove the federal reserve from controlling our money supply, currently giving themselves (banks, they own or control) 80 billion a month in stimulus (THEFT) taking 40 % of incoming taxes on old loans (THEFTS)

    The other 2 presidents who tried to remove “FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD” were Lincoln, and Garfield.

    Strangest thing about these 3 presidents who tried to remove the criminal gang from controlling our monetary system, taking whatever they want—The 3 PRESIDENTS WERE ALL MURDERED—THE FEDERAL RESERVE REFUSE TO BE AUDITED, UNDER THREAT OF DEATH , obama allowed more thefts in his 5 years than ALL presidents combined—they are currently trying to install a one world government, a world of Nobility, slaves, hirelings, and servants, thry don’t want a nation as powerful as our nation to exist in their world, the reason obama has discharged about 200 high ranking Military Commanders, shuttered NASA, and is currently shutting down our defense industries, many more acts of treason, the worst commtting sodomy on the mostly White/Hisanic/Christian Military. Male homosexuals suffer from a 96% higher rate of STD’s than normal people, the reason they were discharged from service, they represent a severe health hazard to US Military Personnel, before obama engaged in forcing his homosexual manifesto on the United States of America—A Christian Nation

    We are a nation under occupation by the MOB, currently being dismantled by obama et al

  24. The world class mafia consist of some 250 dynasties who live in secular communities, virtual castles, throughout the world, using our money to take whatever they perceive as geophysical assets, they are dishonorablem and will take on any name , religion, input records into whatever system they control, ethnically cleanse any nation of its citizens sitting on geophysical assets, then redeed the assets for themselves.

    Communism is a ploy to get a nations assets under one power, then disband the government, redeeding the assets to politburo members, and associates who ovdr time becomes their own members.

    Thus the Russian Mafia, several hundred billionaires that emerged when russia ended a communist power.

    The same thing will happen in china at some point in time. Maos’ relatives are high ranking members

    each dynasty are ruled by a gang of firstborn male’s, they live under the pretense of judaism, or gods chosen people entitled to the worlds assets we are all considered as servants, slaves, hirelings

    1. Dungeons and Dragons, no?

  25. Finally after 50 years of cover-up and suppression somebody, namely Roger Stone has come out and published the facts about JFK and his assassination. While LBJ was long suspected as the possible culprit, Stone’s book “The Man Who Killed Kennedy – The Case Against LBJ” which just came out last week has blown the lid off the whole sorted affair. Stone provides evidence for every bombshell assertion he makes in the book and he makes many of them. Stone doesn’t exactly say that Nixon directly told him that LBJ did it or how, but he did say certain things that directly implicate LBJ. This is why all the European newspapers are reporting this week that “Nixon said it.” You can read it all for yourself in the book.

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