School Calls Cops and Suspends Girl for Unknowingly Having a Gun Locked in Her Car

For unknowingly having a gun locked inside the vehicle she drove to school, a Virginia high school student was recently confronted by the police and suspended for two weeks, compromising her academics and extra-curriculars.
Courtney Niles, a 16-year-old junior at Warhill High School, was unable to drive her own car to school on October 18. She borrowed her stepbrother's truck, completely unaware of the gun securely stowed inside. Because the vehicle lacked a parking pass, a school security guard was alerted. According to the Virginia Gazette, Niles "was pulled out of her second block class and taken to the parking lot," where she was confronted by the police:
"They asked me if there was anything in the car I needed to tell them about and I said 'no,'" she said."They said 'can you open your driver's side door and look under the seat.' There was a gun there."
She said the gun was tucked between the center console and the seat, completely out of view unless someone looked in through a back window. She was suspended as of Oct. 18, and she'll be out of school until Nov. 1.
[…]
Niles said Warhill Principal Jeff Carroll told her he checked into the specifics of the required suspension to see if there was anything he could do given the situation, but indicated there wasn't.
Warhill High School has strict policies about weapons. The student code of conduct states, "Possession or use of a weapon, whether operable or inoperable … on school property, at a school-sponsored activity, or going to or from school, is prohibited." The school ranks offenses from 1 to 4. Breaking rules related to weapons are necessarily "presumed to be deliberate, overt and destructive," and the student is not only automatically suspended for 10 days, but also recommended for expulsion, and police are notified.
To put the punishment into context, Warhill High considers Niles' mistake, which had no victim other than herself, equal to or worse than fighting, stealing, committing vandalism, extortion, or sexual harassment.
Furthermore, one can question what lesson Niles is supposed to take away from her punishment. She is barred from attending the homecoming dance or participating in the district cheerleading championship. She told the Gazette that her biggest concern is that being out of school for two weeks is going set her back academically.
Reason's Ed Krayewski and Jesse Walker have recently highlighted similarly absurd cases of the failures of zero tolerance policies in schools.
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They said 'can you open your driver's side door and look under the seat.'
No. The answer is always no when the authorities ask to search anything of yours.
I'm pretty sure they make kids sign something that says they will submit to a search any time at the school's discretion in order to obtain a parking pass. That's the "out" the school has in asking her to give up her 4A rights.
"She doesn't want to comply? She doesn't have to park her car at school."...nevermind the fact that schools are not private property rights and they do not have the right to demand customers comply with their rules to come onto the property.
I'm pretty sure they make kids sign something that says they will submit to a search any time at the school's discretion in order to obtain a parking pass. That's the "out" the school has in asking her to give up her 4A rights.
If it's a government school, can they force students to do this?
(Yeah, I know. The FYTW Clause and all that.)
SCOTUS has ruled a few times that minors in public schools don't have full 1st or 4th protections.
My take would be no. But they do it in other government agencies all the time, namely the military.
Your employment is contingent upon signing away "certain rights".
I've never been able to find anyone who could specifically tell me which rights those were, exactly. The UCMJ gives unbelievable powers to Commanders.
As I said, my thought would be that government agencies cannot make employment contingent upon waiving your rights.
Not sure, Ted. And the reason for my "not sure" is that I don't know if you're asking that from a legal or a moral perspective. Legally, I think they can because the state pretty much says kids are the property of the state when on school grounds and their rights are forfeit...even though they are involuntarily forced to attend. Morally it's a no-brainer and that even asking is a violation of the rights...of the person who should have the right to have the gun in there anyway.
Fuck you, Reason. I was having a relatively good Monday.
Fuck, I'm just glad the cops didn't shoot her. She had a gun, after all.
You silly libertoids think this a victimless non-offense but you are wrong; the victim here is Order. To keep Order secure, punishment must be meted out, without consideration of the offender's intent. For the children's own sake, they must live in constant fear that they will do something to violate Order and be ever mindful of their thoughts and actions.
Discipline. Security. Order. These are the watchwords of our regime.
We offered the world order
Discipline. Security. Order. These are the watchwords of our regime.
They are the watchwords of a lot of voters. Politicians are only following many Americans' strong desire for Whiffle Fascism.
So, she should have just skipped school instead.
I remember my father talking about taking guns on the bus to school and keeping them in lockers for target practice or hunting afterwards. Somehow the world didn't end.
During hunting season we would bring our shotguns to school with us and leave them in the car to go hunting afterwards. Nobody thought anything of it. And this was in New Jersey in the 1970's.
My dad also told me stories of them taking their rifles to school to work on in shop class, or to go hunting directly after school (circa early '60s).
This is rural PA, mind you, where kids still get the first day of buck season off of school.
We left them in the car in the 80s.
My old man claims they used to stack their rifles in the corner of the classroom during hunting season. This was also rural PA. That's back before rural PA became just as pussified as the rest of the country.
We used to take Army surplus M2 .50 cal machine guns and belts and belts of live ammunition, and grenades and mortars,to elementary school to play "war" during recesss.
The prinicipal picked us up at home in a surplus Sherman tank and drove us to school, burning sweet, sweet leaded gas the whole way. Sometimes he'd shoot deer with the tank's cannon, just for fun.
Of course, this was in Michigan in the 60's, so - make of that what you will. You tell kids this today...they don't believe it...
They do the same in Michigan now. Well, in Detroit anyway. But I don't think it's to play "war" at recess with. It's just to ensure that they actually make it to school withour the wildings getting them.
My father told me that when he was a kid he'd bring his shotgun to school so he could shoot squirrels for dinner on the walk home.
We are the domesticated descendents of people who were once wild and free.
Domesticated tax cattle.
I met a New Yorker who said he would take his rifle on the subway with him on his way to school.
They allowed her to retrieve the weapon? DON'T THEY REALIZE SHE COULD HAVE JUST STARTED BLASTING?! I mean, if you're going to pretend that Mens Rea no longer matters, then you might as well go full retard.
No I am sorry, we all know that people do not shoot people, it is the evil guns themselves that do it. So the real risk is that the gun would have discharged as soon as she opened the door. Really the only proper action would have been to use explosives to destroy the truck on site and thereby end the threat posed by the evil gun.
Yeah, that struck me as odd, too, that they told her to get between them and the weapon. It's almost as if they were setting her up to be shot..."look, she's got a gun!"
I think I've been hanging out with you guys too long.
I don't think it was that, I think it was a de facto admission of how actually harmless the whole situation was. If her retrieving the gun is fine (because that's what they told her to do), she was obviously no danger, even in their minds. So why is punishment warranted? Oh right, because these people are scum and love to hand down arbitrary punishments.
Just like any other position of responsibility, who is going to gravitate towards school administrator? That's right, the worst possible people.
She didn't get arrested, so the cops obviously weren't too worried about it. You can always count on schools for mindless punishments, though.
She didn't get arrested, so the cops obviously weren't too worried about it.
Although its pretty much an ancillary issue, the fact that she hadn't broken any laws might have something to do with it.
Well, yeah. But that doesn't always stop them. They could always go with disorderly conduct or something.
But I think it is worth at least occasionally noting that there are plenty of cops out there who are fine with people having guns and are capable of seeing a person with a gun without getting ready to shoot them.
Although its pretty much an ancillary issue, the fact that she hadn't broken any laws might have something to do with it.
Oh, I'm sure she broke one of the idiotic "gun-free school zone" laws that are everywhere now. And on those, mens rea don't mean shit, so she has no defense. Guilty as charged and off to the jailhouse where she can learn to be a criminal.
They're bureaucrats. Like every other bureaucrat, the only way they can lose their jobs is by fucking up royally or bucking the system. They're just protecting their own asses instead of hers.
I think I've been hanging out with you guys too long.
There is a strong possiblity this is true.
"SHE WAS COMING RIGHT AT ME!!!"
"SHE WAS COMING RIGHT AT ME!!!"
Go on...
"at me" not "on me"
They allowed her to retrieve the weapon?
They had to so they could keep up some bullshit pretense that they had not violated her rights. Of course, they aren't gonna tell you how they found out that the gun was in there (hidden) in the first place. They'll just tell us all that her rights weren't violated because she willingly gave permission to the cops to look in her car.
They know she was no threat. But this isn't about threats or legitimate concerns. It's about controlling the general population by intimidation and force.
Two weeks ain't that bad.
I know a guy, who totally is not me, that got busted selling weed in school. They gave him an extra 2 week suspension just for some metal scissors he had in his bookbag.
In total I he got over a month of suspension. His dad had to go around to his teachers to get all the work he'd have for the month. He finished that work in 4 hours. That's how little work/learning is actually done in high school (and they were hard classes, too. phys/chem/precalc/ap-eng/etc)
I hope you he has no plans to work for the government or in any capacity that requires a security clearance, because with that on your his record it will never happen.
I know a person, totally not me, who wasn't even busted. Rumors of my his selling drugs were enough to keep me him out of the military. Granted the rumors were totally true, but still.
"I hope you he has no plans to work for the government or in any capacity that requires a security clearance, because with that on your his record it will never happen."
Lol, no, just no...
He can always be an Obamacare Navigator. Or work at the Washington Navy Yard.
I wish I'd know about the G.E.D. before I wasted four years in high school. I could have passed it when I was twelve years old.
-jcr
Pretty much this. I was fucking sick of the authoritarian BS, so I quit at 15, only to have a social worker tell me I needed to return because I wasn't old enough to quit.
I went to the Dean of Students and asked him to suspend me. After that was over, there was only a month left, so I just didn't come back.
I tried that in Junior high; I wasn't very popular with the administration after that. I was frequently harassed by teachers who thought I had a chip on my shoulder - which I did. Unfortunately none of them wanted to put in the extra effort to challenge me when I said the work I was doing was neither interesting nor challenging.
I went from a 4.25 GPA (advanced math, French, computer science, math olympics, science olympiad, et cetera) to a barely "D" student. Two years later a high school counselor called me into her office and asked why I wasn't working up to my potential. My response was something along the lines of "Why do you give a shit now?" And yes, I swore, it has been a passion of mine for many years. I have always found people's reactions to 4 letter words entertaining, since polysyllabic words meaning the same thing don't typically garner a response.
At least the counselor tried to challenge me by adding every honors class available to my schedule. By that point I was already fed up with school and had written it off. Some of my teachers tried to push me, but for the most part I didn't care. Although my honors English teacher was fantastic, nothing was ever good enough and she always pushed for better work. Ms. Sheila Smith was one of the few bright spots in my public education.
Yet another terrorist plot foiled by our hard working heroes at the NSA.
A valuable life lesson on the evil of government and mindless authority at only the age of 16. That school is doing a bang up job.
There's no 'intent' stipulation in these codes of conduct? No. Of course there isn't. Why? Fuck you, that's why.
To measure intent would require careful reasoned analysis of every situation, something out of reach of school administrators.
Warhill Principal Jeff Carroll is a real dumbass motherfucker.
I wonder if she'll face charges.
In PA if a gun was concealed like that and it wasn't your wife driving the car, the operator could possibly face charges. It wouldn't be much- a fine maybe, but still.
The only question I have is what possible purpose does this serve? Do they think this creates some sort of illusion of justice? Does it "deal with a known trouble maker"? Does it make anyone safer? I mean, at this point, these clowns aren't even giving the pretense of being wise or intelligent.
Rules must be unquestioningly obeyed or the world will descend into chaos!
So, in other words, if you're going to do authoritarian evil, don't even bother trying to do authoritarian evil well.
I think this calls for one of my favorite King of the Hill quotes (paraphrased):
"I'm sorry, Mr. Hill, but my hands are tied. The school has a zero-tolerance policy for this sort of thing. If we showed even a little bit of tolerance...we couldn't call it 'zero-tolerance'".
You're making a mistake if you think high school administrators care at all about justice, or anyone's safety but their own. They care about forcing people to obey, and they relish the opportunity to beat this girl into submission.
Enforcers don't give a shit about the rules that they enforce. The act of enforcing them is its own reward.
But, why? She's a friggin' CHEERLEADER! 20:1 that, absent this, she'd be nothing but effusively praising of the wise and benevolent leadership of the high school administration.
It doesn't matter if she's the school's biggest trouble maker or best student. They get off on forcing people to obey. The more force they have to use, the better.
But, that's what doesn't compute. Here's someone who, by profile at least, you can bet would WANT to obey. Again, cheerleader, not weird kid from the debate club who might go off half-cocked thinking he has ideas or principles.
I' not an authoritarian prick. But, if I were, it's not the cheering cadres I'd visit my wrath on.
Bill, that just shows what a crappy authoritarian you'd be. The trick to really doing it right is to be arbitrary.
Good point. Bill, run for some office so we can vote for you!
That's not it at all. They're cowards. They won't buck the system because bucking the system involves risk. It involves putting yourself out there for someone else. They are just demonstrating that theyare unwilling to take on their superiors because it might show up on their permanent record. They are good little Nazis, always following their orders.
I disagree. This is a system that could easily be bucked. All the admins have to do is tell the girl, "Don't let this happen again." Story over, and we never hear about it.
The only reason they insisted on enforcing these absurd zero tolerance rules is because they wanted to.
Well, dammit, that'll teach those prissy little cheerleaders not to refuse to date the Vice President of the Future School Administrators of America chapter!
Yup. Create a position of authority, and the worst possible people to fill that position will eventually gravitate to it. The people who become school administrators do so because it gives them power over kids. Maybe they were picked on in school, and want revenge. Maybe they're total cowards who sees imprisoned kids as the perfect targets. But regardless, these positions are going to be saturated with people you don't want in them.
It's self-perpetuating too. As the thugs gravitate to the power positions, they squeeze out any non-thugs in the organization, either intentionally or just by inadvertently causing the non-thugs to start hating their jobs. They really are bad apples, in the originally meaning that they spoil the whole barrel.
Exactly. The very people who gravitate towards it shifts the entire culture in that position to be even worse.
Okay, I think I get it now. The principal got shot down by the homecoming queen back in the day and....
Everybody run, the homecoming queen's got a gun!
Okay. That's not quite what I meant by "shot down".
Nope.
Make stupid rules.
Enforce stupid rules.
Make no attempt to understand the intent of the stupid rules.
Judgment requires thought, and we can't have that. Just think of it. People out there adjudicating based upon each individual circumstance rather than a nice neat one size fits all non discretionary policy.
The.
Horror.
But, as is noted above. There's still discretion, even if it isn't in the policy.
She told the Gazette that her biggest concern is that being out of school for two weeks is going set her back academically.
Academics are not the school's concern.
Silly freedom lovers government knows best
You know who else had a gun in their car?
Henry Hill?
The po po?
ME!
Bond. James Bond.
Machine Gun Joe Viterbo?
Heisenberg.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....mself.html
Sad story. At least it had a happy ending.
The lesson here?
Never date cops.
The lesson here?
Never date trust cops.
And, never date someone who has dated a cop.
I mean, really, aside from the risk of getting greased by her ex, the fact that she would date a cop has got to be symptom of some real serious problems.
This is why only the police can be trusted with guns.
Exactly. I mean, what if those two had defended themselves?
They'd be charged with the murder of a law enforcement officer, and he would've gotten one of those parades?
Possession or use of a weapon, whether operable or inoperable
Strictly speaking, any pile of metal and wood is an inoperable gun.
I demand the equal application of this rule to any person found to have brought any combination of metal and wood to school.
In the 3D printing era, we may need to extend this rule to cover all printer-compatible plastics.
Doesn't say gun, it states 'weapon' therefore any use/possession of clubs on school grounds would also be covered. Given that a number of objects can be considered as such I expect that the entire school will be suspended shortly.
What is an "inoperable club"?
One made up of faith healers?
If a vehicle is on the school grounds without a parking permit, that may be grounds for having it towed. It is NOT grounds for searching it. The girl and the truck's owner should both file charges and pursue a civil action against officer porky and the school for violating their fourth amendment rights.
-jcr
It was visible from the back window. If a cop can see it from outside, then it's fair game.
If poking around in a girl's underwear looking for aspirin she may have brought onto school grounds is OK, searching a car is a no-brainer.
Yeah, and then the retaliation would begin.
Also, I'm not sure what the process is to try get someone charged. I'm presuming you have to go through the po po or the prosecutors. Good luck with that.
This was in my neighborhood.
For some real fun, read the idiot comments on the original article.
(Head explodes)
And that person is allowed to vote. Anyone wonder why we are where we're at?
This is the approprate response to the mental midget who somehow managed to summon up enough functioning neurons to make that comment.
Wow, just... wow.
I totally agree with everyone that the punishment was a stupid overreaction as was calling the cops.
It is worth mentioning that her brother was stupid and irresponsible to leave a not very well concealed handgun in his car and forget or fail to mention that it was there. Pity that this all couldn't be resolved by the brother going to the school and apologizing for his oversight and explaining that it was not her doing at all.
I believe it was her step-brother's friend's hunting shotgun. Of course he's an idiot and an asshole for just leaving his shotgun around, but that is no fault of her's.
The best part was they called EVERY parent of EVERY student that day to report that there had been an incident involving a gun but it was all OK and not to worry (so why the call and why the suspension?). And the administrators are claiming that their hands are tied on the punishment. Utter bullshit. They're just afraid of bucking the idiotic system.
Here's a gem from teh article:
Level 4 offenses, which are defined as "Infractions that often are unlawful, criminal, illegal and/or illicit and could label the school as persistently dangerous,"
So it doesn't matter if it is actually unlawful (or a bunch of other words that mean about the same thing) or dangerous. It just has to be like other things that are sometimes unlawful, or have the potential to make the school look bad.
That school administrators are venal dickless sacks of shit with no spine who enjoy fucking up people's lives because... ZERO TOLERANS!!!1!!!
I believe the correct term is spineless. They know it's idiotic and uncalled for, but they carry out the punishment anyway because they're bureaucrats who are more afraid of losing their jobs than fucking up some kid's life for no apparent reason other than RULES.
Reading comprehension fail, sorry bout that.
"Is this true?"
"It's true. He has no dick."
Interesting how a student is expected to know what she has in a car she borrowed to go to school while the President of the United States isn't expected to know that his government is tapping the phones of the heads of allied states.
But that's just the thing; they didn't expect her to know. The security guard was happy when he found a car without a parking sticker, while simultaneously having every confidence it was driven there by a student. The admins he reported to were delighted to bring the hammer down on someone, who they knew had no need to be punished. The cops who showed up were licking their chops at making the 16-year-old girl squirm, even know they knew she was no threat at all.
When it comes to thuggery, innocence is completely irrelevant. The only reason the president gets a pass from some people is because they want to have the biggest thug on their side.
You know who else licked their chops at making a 16-year-old girl squirm?
Jason Voorhees?
STEVE SMITH?
NECROPANTS?!?
If only Reason had a "Like" button.
Please God no. Then it would become like Reddit and Facebook for INTJ's.
No like button, just a dislike button.
DISLIKE
But if they temporarily had a "like" button so we could all "like" your idea to only have a "dislike" button. Yes, that would be perfect.
Take that, button-haters!
No like button, just a dislike button.
I have an orange "reply to this" link that serves the same purpose.
No like button? Me no like zipper!
Fuck this country and the assholes who presume to run it.
Presume?
Niles said Warhill Principal Jeff Carroll told her he checked into the specifics of the required suspension to see if there was anything he could do given the situation, but indicated there wasn't.
Orders were followed.
it's clear she was harmless but it is the harmless that we make examples of since assholes don't give a shit what you do to them. Due to this more and more people will see assholes getting away with crime while the rest suffer for most minor and sometimes useless of offenses so even law abiders will start to ignore the laws and we will no longer know who is truly a criminal and who is not since no body will obey any law. Anarchy because of too many laws not a lack of laws.