Chelsea Manning Not Looking for Subsidies for Sex Change Treatment

When Bradley Manning announced a name change to Chelsea and a desire to live and begin transitioning to life as a woman, one criticism that floated around would be whether she would demand taxpayers cover medical costs, given that she's on her way to military prison. According to her attorney, the answer is no. Time and the Associated Press report:

Chelsea Manning, the convicted WikiLeaks leaker previously known as Bradley Manning, is willing to pay for estrogen treatment to promote breast development and female characteristics while incarcerated in an all-male military prison, Manning's lawyer told the Associated Press.

Manning, who has requested the treatment in the Fort Leavenworth, Kan. military prison, does not want sex-reassignment surgery at this point, said the lawyer, David Combs.

Manning announced she wanted to live as a woman the day after a military jury sentenced her last week to 35 years in prison for leaking troves of classified material to the anti-secrecy website WikiLeaks. Combs said she made the statement after the trial so as not to sound insincere.

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Comments

[Res Publica Americana]

Manning's a guy.

[SIV]

The right sort of people are going to pretend otherwise.

[Hawk Spitui]

Sure. And I'm King Edward V. Because FYTW.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

No you're obviously a woman.

[Hawk Spitui]

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Wait, you identify as a man and I called you something different? Huh, that must suck. Lady.

[Duke]

Laurel Westbrook says: What is Sex? What is Gender? What is Sexuality? How to they relate to each other? Where do our understandings and practices of sex, gender, and sexuality come from? The answers are more complicated than you think. In this talk, we will discuss the "sex/gender/sexuality system" and its consequences for all of our lives ? how it creates opportunities and inequalities, constructs pleasures and dangers, and how it has come to seem just plain natural.

I used to think if you had cock and balls, you were a man, and if you had a hole betwixt your legs, you were a lady. Boy was I wrong! Thanks gender studies intellectuals for setting me straight.

Oops!

[Lord Humungus]

What is Sex?

something to do when nothing is on television.

[Duke]

Sexuality system

I wonder if that's near the Dagobah System.

[Eduard van Haalen]

It's near Uranus.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Twelve parsecs distant, but it depends on your definition of she near.

[Loki]

I used to think if you had cock and balls, you were a man, and if you had a hole betwixt your legs, you were a lady.

And I used to think that if your cell's nuclei contained an X and a Y chromosome you were a man, and if they contained two X chromosomes you were a woman no matter what you did to the visible outside parts.

Boy was I wrong! Thanks gender studies intellectuals for setting me straight.

What you did there, I see it.

[Duke]

Well, the "Oops!" kind of gave it away Loki. Next time I won't be so obvious and we'll see if you catch it then Mr. Smarty. Or is it Mrs. Smarty?

Oops!

[Zeb]

Oh no, not this again.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

I cannot understand why people give a shit. It's just more KULTURKAMPF BS from Team Red.

[Episiarch]

Because idiotic fights like this are all they have. It's literally how they define themselves. Yes, it is that pathetic.

[Tonio]

^This. But somehow they wish us to believe that they are the team of minding their own business.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Aren't prisons still segregated by sex? If so, the govt will *have* to take a position on Manning's proper sex, and you can't blame the Red Staters for *that.*

Nor, I think, can you blame the Red States for the controversy over male football players who claim they identify as women using the women's bathroom. ("Hey, baby, I'm a lesbian!"). Or for the whole business of changing birth certificates. These would be annoying issues even without the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy cynically trying to manufacture votes out of it.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

We can blame you rednecks for being intellectually stunted teenagers, though.

[Tonio]

Eddie does have a practical point - yes, dealing with anything other than the normative categories of people does introduce complexity and controversy into the system. But since libertarians are the team(lette) of wanting to upset the old apple cart you'd think they would be more amenable to change.

Then there are those who fit your characterization, and exhibit sneering contempt for anything or anyone different from them or their experience.

[Eduard van Haalen]

The world as a whole has plenty of experience with people of one sex behaving like the other. Some cultures have such folks as licensed jesters, or in even more important roles.

Then there's Dame Edna and Tyler Perry. But I wouldn't want them in the girls' locker, than you very much.

[Nikkis enthusiastic dissent]

What, NLK, are you saying you don't ask to see all your guy friends' dicks before you will call them guys? And to closely examine all your chick friends' vaginas to make sure they were OEM models?

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Well I do, but that's just because I'm a perv.

[Nikkis enthusiastic dissent]

That's why I do it!

[SugarFree]

My penis is factory standard. But it was a union factory. 🙁

[RBS]

It's always lounging around until it's time to rough someone up?

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

So is it subject to recall?

[SugarFree]

Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I assume the warranty has long expired?

[Res Publica Americana]

Bait. 😛

[Episiarch]

Chelsea Manning, the convicted WikiLeaks leaker previously known as Bradley Manning, is willing to pay for estrogen treatment to promote breast development and female characteristics while incarcerated in an all-male military prison

Manning is going to get so much action.

[mr simple]

Now they won't have to tattoo the breasts onto his back.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Prison rape is hilarious.

[Lord Humungus]

ha.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I wonder if military prisons have as high an incidence of anal rape as civil prisons?

And I'm not sure if this would be a plus or a minus as far as reducing your chances of getting anally raped. Could go either way I suppose.

[Anomalous]

Rape means an absence of consent.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Missing your point.

Actually rape means:

rape [reyp] Show IPA noun, verb, raped, rap?ing.
noun
1. the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3. statutory rape.
4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5. Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
verb (used with object)
6. to force to have sexual intercourse.
7. to plunder (a place); despoil.
8. to seize, take, or carry off by force.

[Sigivald]

What I want to know is how he intends to actually pay for them.

Willingness is not what gets one a good or service. Ability to pay is what does, when one actually does it.

Being "willing to pay for" something gets you nothing at all, if you can't and don't actually pay for it.

[Brett L]

That's one way to get a better score on your fitness & readiness tests.

[Zeb]

Well, that should make him popular in prison.

[Tonio]

And those of you who were whinging about having to pay for this through your tax dollars may post your retractions as replies below.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Jeez, who did that? It's pretty well-known that was never going to be the case. I did try to tell a bunch of Redtards that on Twitter, but...it's Twitter.

[Tonio]

They know who they are, NLK. Go to the 8/22 article on this and search the comments for "pay" if you're interested.

[Paul.]

Retractions? I can't even figure out who this Chelsea Manning person is.

[yonemoto]

I will admit to almost complaining about it, but I never got around to putting it in writing.

I would be willing to give up to $75 for him to swap up his naughty bits.

[Duke]

Just so that I understand this correctly, the feminine pronoun "she," which is used to refer to females in general, is now culturally required to be applied to males who believe in their own mind they are a woman, even though they are still actually male in gender? So the male and female are designations are now used for a state of belief rather than a state of anatomy?

Example: If I shoot a doe on my farm, and I believe it's really a giant buck, I can go around and tell everyone I shot a monster buck and you have to accept that as true?

[Francisco d Anconia]

I think the doe must believe she..er...he is a buck, in which case you would need to ask it(?) before pulling the trigger.

[Duke]

So I can tell the federal game warden that the Mallard hens I shot over the limit are really drakes thus thwarting his ability to write me a ticket. But if they require the duck to make the proclomation of gender, then I might be screwed, since he/she/it is probably already mad at me for shooting he/she/it in the first place.

I mean, it all really makes sense if you stop and think about it.

[Harvard]

Ever had those ducks that come in to a set with a quartering flight, seemingly unable to make up his mind about how to fly straight?

Those are queer ducks.

[Hawk Spitui]

Of course. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

[trshmnstr]

It depends, how much testosterone did you load the salt lick with?

[Duke]

One good thing that came out of the Civil War was the Transsexualization Proclamation.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Here's a really great idea: use your own judgment for what makes sense and what doesn't, while at the same time remaining polite and flexible with people who are wrestling with their identities.

WHAT A FUCKING CONCEPT. I mean, how hard is it to not be a dickwad, exactly? Just asking for a friend here.

[Hawk Spitui]

I'll keep that in mind should I meet anyone who insists on being called "Napoleon".

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

you don't encounter that...ever, for all practical purposes. And you could just ignore it and move on.

This is a bit different. This is you being an asshole on purpose.

[Tonio]

It's a troll, Dude.

[Hawk Spitui]

Look mate, I have no problem with people who are clearly biologically men calling themselves women, or people who think they're Napoleon, Emperor of France, or people who think the moon is made of green cheese. However, there is such a thing as objective, quantifiable reality, and Napoleon and company are just going to have to kiss my royal Irish arse if they think I'm going to deny it in favor of being a stage prop in their personal narcissistic cinematography. Deal.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

So you say you have no problem with it, but you're going to go ahead and act like an ass anyway. Got it.

[Francisco d Anconia]

How exactly is he acting like an ass? Because he won't call a zebra a horse even though the zebra wants to be a horse?

[PM]

How exactly is he acting like an ass?

Refusing to accommodate someone else's neuroses and identity disorders makes you an asshole. Duh.

Demanding that others put aside the plain definition of language for you is a small thing to ask, Francisco. If they want to call "war" "kinetic military action", the least you could do as a civilized person is to go along with it. Doesn't hurt you, does it, you judgmental prick!

[buddhastalin]

Having XX vs. XY chromosomes is an objective, quantifiable reality. Labeling someone "man", "woman" or any other category that we humans invent is subjective.

[KPres]

"you don't encounter that...ever, for all practical purposes."

So? There's countless examples of people that believe ridiculous things and nobody goes around indulging them. I call transgender people what they are, ie, a male who wishes they were female or vice versa. It doesn't have anything to do with anybody's feelings one way or another, that's just what they are. That doesn't make you a dick. You're only a dick if you if you go around bashing them because they happen to want something that isn't so.

[Sigivald]

"Polite and flexible".

See, that is exactly what I do, as regards transsexuals and people with whatever-gender-issue.

But I find that absolutely god-damn hilarious coming from you, given your willingness to call the perceived political other (the "right", I guess it is?) names given any opportunity, all above here in the thread.

"Polite and flexible with people" should apply to pretty much everyone short of Hitler, not just people with a gender identity issue, shouldn't it?

Or is it that only Good People get treated like People at all?

[Tonio]

Duke, the term willful ignorance comes to mind here. OK, you don't like it. We get that. Nobody is forcing you to play. But rather than trolling, why don't you just accept that society has passed you by?

[Sigivald]

"Society"?

When did "Society" pass this resolution and who's bound by it?

I mean, fuck, I basically agree with you (on, as I'd put it, "who the fuck cares if someone's a transsexual or not?") and I use the pronoun-THEY-prefer with every one I deal with myself. Because that's polite, and because it's the right thing to do.

But the idea that "society" has decided that this must be so and that we must follow Because Society?

Is unfounded and lacks any legitimacy even if it were so.

("Society" is equally capable of denying that a group - be it Transsexuals, Jews, Capitalist Wreckers - are people at all, and killing them en-masse.

If you don't say "well, Society decided it and passed you by, start doing what Society said" in that case, why in this one? Other than the obvious "Society is right if it agrees with me, otherwise it's wrong" - which completely guts the argument-by-Society.

If "Society" gets to judge, it gets to judge even if you don't like what it decides - which is why pretty much everyone figures out that "Society says" is a bad metric.

Society in Iran says homosexuals get publicly hanged. Is the US behind because we're not following their example? There's no metric to compare "societies" if "society says" is your source of moral authority.

See the problem with "society" as the source of moral judgment?)

[PM]

If I were the type to lop off my junk and change my gender pronoun, I'd marry you.

[Loki]

Chelsea Manning, the convicted WikiLeaks leaker previously known as Bradley Manning, is willing to pay for estrogen treatment to promote breast development and female characteristics while incarcerated in an all-male military prison

That'll end well...

Not exactly the brightest bulb on the tree.

[SIV]

while incarcerated in an all-male military prison

As our TEAM BLUE KULTURWARriors point out above it isn't an "all male" military prison anymore now that Chelsea is there.

[Warty]

How many of you TEAM RED dipshits who are getting upset over this have rubbed one out to Bailey Jay? Be honest now.

[SugarFree]

Are sockpuppets included in the count?

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

sockpuppets can click the TS section too.

[SugarFree]

Sockpuppets have the worst job in entire sequence of the masturbatory act.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

The shame after?

[SugarFree]

The stickiness and then stiffness. Later, a rampant flaking of semendruff.

[jesse.in.mb]

semendruff

I hate that you reach into the heart of our language and pull out useful portmanteau that should never exist.

[scape]

Doesn't this sex thing go both ways (pun intended)? Why is Manning allowed to set the rules regarding pronouns? Why doesn't the press substitute he/she with the genderless term, dude? Dude wants; dude claims; dude says, etc. And give the dude a fabulous new moniker like the big stars get like Brangelina or Tomkat. Dude will now go by the name, Brachel.

[Tonio]

Because the same people who whinge about having to accept that there are people different from themselves, and who don't fit into the nice neat categories they've grown up with would go apeshit if you tried to change "their" language.

It's really like dealing with toddlers. Reality throws them something they don't like and they throw tantrums believing that that will make the uncomfortable reality go away.

[SIV]

What are you babbling about?

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

You being a toddler. Pretty spot on, FWIW

[SIV]

The people who find it laughable that Manning can declare himself a woman and suddenly (among some quarters) it is incorrect to believe otherwise aren't the ones dragging politics into this.
We're laughing at you.

[darius404]

You're treating it like a real person NK, rather than the rightwing equivalent of Buttplug it is. Let it go.

[KPres]

You're calling a him a her then complaining about others that can't deal with reality?

[SIV]

It's not "reality" it's "reality based".

[KPres]

Ultimately, it's reason vs. emotions. Manning is a he, but he wants to be a she, so the moonbat "empaths" call him a she, even though that's outright absurd and they know it. The point, though, is to push the primacy of feelings, which is a bullshit and ass-backwards approach. Unless you're delusional, you reshape your emotions to fit reality, not the other way around.

[Repairman Jack]

"Reality throws them something they don't like and they throw tantrums believing that that will make the uncomfortable reality go away."

This is exactly how you appear to me. Hell, I don't even have a problem with someone who switches their gender on a daily basis. But damn do I ever experience visceral disgust over indignation that someone won't refer to another however they like. I don't know if it's because I perceive it as an entitlement mentality or if it's something else, but it's such a strong feeling.

[PM]

It's really like dealing with toddlers. Reality throws them something they don't like and they throw tantrums believing that that will make the uncomfortable reality go away.

Ironically, you could accurately be referring to the people who don't like what they see when they look down in the shower and put out a press release insisting that everyone else indulge their discomfort.

But that's like, totally different man.

[Gweskoyen]

This comment section makes me sad. When I say that I am libertarian, others often expect me to be an asshole. I try to disprove this prejudice, but then come transphobic assholes like in this thread and fuck it all up. You are the reason why libertarians have so little influence in society. Sad ugly troglodytes clinging to outdated moralities.

[PM]

You are the reason why libertarians have so little influence in society.

Yeah, losing that large transsexual demographic is definitely what did it.

Sad ugly troglodytes clinging to outdated moralities.

DNA has fuck all to do with morality. Failing to indulge the mental illnesses of others might arguably make one insensitive to the mentally ill, but it sure as fuck doesn't make one a 'phobe' of any variety, nor a moralist. Telling a schizophrenic that the person he genuinely and truly believes is standing right next to you engaging in the conversation doesn't actually exist in reality is not a moral issue anymore than calling a biologically male human being who genuinely and truly believes he is a woman by masculine pronouns is. Take your grievance mongering and shove it up your fascist asshole.

[Gweskoyen]

"Shove it up your fascist asshole" Wow, the chutzpah of yours. I am for people defining themselves as they want, and you call me a fascist.
Do you know who else defined people by their blood and not their self-chosen identity? Hitler.
Do you know who else callously categorized other people as mentally ill because they were inconvenient to his politics? Stalin.
This is your company, PM.

[Harvard]

And you actually believe all this, right?

[SIV]

This is why there are no trans/libertarians...oh wait...