Reason.com - Free Minds and Free Markets
Reason logo Reason logo
  • Latest
  • Magazine
    • Current Issue
    • Archives
    • Subscribe
    • Crossword
  • Video
  • Podcasts
    • All Shows
    • The Reason Roundtable
    • The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie
    • The Soho Forum Debates
    • Just Asking Questions
    • The Best of Reason Magazine
    • Why We Can't Have Nice Things
  • Volokh
  • Newsletters
  • Donate
    • Donate Online
    • Donate Crypto
    • Ways To Give To Reason Foundation
    • Torchbearer Society
    • Planned Giving
  • Subscribe
    • Reason Plus Subscription
    • Print Subscription
    • Gift Subscriptions
    • Subscriber Support

Login Form

Create new account
Forgot password

Civil Liberties

Detaining David Miranda Ticked Off More Journalists Than Glenn Greenwald

J.D. Tuccille | 8.19.2013 1:06 PM

Share on FacebookShare on XShare on RedditShare by emailPrint friendly versionCopy page URL
Media Contact & Reprint Requests
Large image on homepages | Glenn Greenwald
(Glenn Greenwald)
Glenn Greenwald
Glenn Greenwald

If British authorities thought that detaining and questioning David Miranda, high-profile journalist Glenn Greenwald's partner, would discourage further revelations about NSA surveillance of the world's communications, they miscalculated. Not only has Greenwald (pictured at right) vowed to be more aggressive than ever, but journalists elesewhere seem to be taking the implicit threat to heart, with a CNN correspondent asking on-air if he and his colleagues could expect similar treatment.

In his column for The Guardian, Greenwald wrote after Miranda was released:

If the UK and US governments believe that tactics like this are going to deter or intimidate us in any way from continuing to report aggressively on what these documents reveal, they are beyond deluded. If anything, it will have only the opposite effect: to embolden us even further.

Away from his desk, Greenwald is more overtly pissed, telling reporters at the airport in Rio de Janeiro, where he met Miranda upon his return home:

I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.

Ivan Watson
Ivan Watson's Twitter feed

But Greenwald isn't the only one who got the message. As CNN reported today on the incident, correspondent Ivan Watson (that's him at right), filling in for Michael Holmes as co-anchor with Suzanne Malveaux, asked, "What happens if we publish leaks? Will our partners be detained?"

Writing for USA Today, columnist Rem Rieder, who is also a consultant for the American Journalism Review, pointed out:

The British government's outrageous nine-hour detention of David Miranda, a 28-year-old Brazilian, for nothing more than being the partner of Snowden saga journalist Glenn Greenwald, was an attempt at pure intimidation.

Rieder added, "As is so often the case with such ham-handed measures, Britain's action is likely to backfire."

No shit. There's an old saying about the lack of wisdom in picking fights with people who buy ink by the barrel. Now that pixels have largely replaced ink, the potential risk in infuriating journalists with crude threats can only be magnified.

The Rattler is a weekly newsletter from J.D. Tuccille. If you care about government overreach and tangible threats to everyday liberty, this is for you.

This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

NEXT: Over 100 Nigerian Soldiers May Have To Drive Home After Being Stranded in Mali

J.D. Tuccille is a contributing editor at Reason.

Civil LibertiesWorldNSAUnited KingdomJournalism
Share on FacebookShare on XShare on RedditShare by emailPrint friendly versionCopy page URL
Media Contact & Reprint Requests

Hide Comments (90)

Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.

  1. Almanian!   12 years ago

    I'd consider going gay for that handsome Ivan Watson.

    I MEEEEEAN...it's nice to see the Journolists waking up and supporting freedom.

    1. Bobarian   12 years ago

      "it's nice to see the Journolists waking up and supporting freedom."

      But only when it involves themselves...

      Fucking fucks.

      1. PS   12 years ago

        ^This

        Journolists ought to be a protected class, because, you know, they get paid to be Journolists.

    2. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

      His teeth scare the bejeebus outta me.

      1. Almanian!   12 years ago

        Probably as Scot, eh?

      2. fish   12 years ago

        Nothing a little floss and some white paint won't fix.

        1. jesse.in.mb   12 years ago

          He's got some prominent canines on him.

  2. Night Elf Mohawk   12 years ago

    Oh, so it's worth getting aggressive with the coverage once your ox is or might be gored.

    (Not referencing Greenwald.)

    1. Episiarch   12 years ago

      Who cares? I don't need their motivations to be pure, I need them to report and expose government malfeasance. If they're doing it because they're pissy that they got fucked with, that's fine with me. Just as long as they're doing it. In fact, I don't really expect 99% of them to ever have anything other than personal reasons. All I want is them covering the government, and with a hostile edge to it.

      1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

        If only that were their one virtue--to distrust and expose government and its abuses.

      2. Night Elf Mohawk   12 years ago

        Who cares? I don't need their motivations to be pure...

        I care. If it's just whatever shiny issue sporadically catches their eye then you can't count on the reporting ever happening in the first, you can't count on its not going away when they are mollified, and you almost certainly won't ever see it happen with icky things like guns and markets because they aren't interested in those things in the first place.

        Getting the right answer for the wrong reason is better than getting the wrong answer, but it's not as good as getting it for the right reason.

        1. Episiarch   12 years ago

          I think we're going to have to be satisfied with what we get. We get someone like Greenwald who is at least the rare moderately principled journalist. Then we get a whole bunch of preening scumbags who got pissed off but at least they're doing the right thing because of it.

          That's probably the best we can ask for.

          1. R C Dean   12 years ago

            Well, we're going to get what we get. that doesn't mean we have to be satisfied with it.

          2. Night Elf Mohawk   12 years ago

            It's better than nothing, but it's not a lot, if any, different from the KULTUR WAR you constantly deride. It just so happens that, in this instance, for now, some journalists' KULTUR WAR works to our advantage. They'll revert to their scorpion nature soon enough.

          3. SugarFree   12 years ago

            Just stick to quoting cartoon, Epi. It makes everyone uncomfortable when you try to be serious. Scamper for us, clownshoes. Scamper!

            1. Almanian!   12 years ago

              That kind of made me laugh out loud at work.

              THANKS A LOT, SACCHARIN MAN!

              1. SugarFree   12 years ago

                And then your workplace settled back into its tomblike quiet, broken only by the occasional desultory farting coming from cubicle 32.

            2. Episiarch   12 years ago

              Calm down, Hitler. You think Ron Howard just wished Willow was great? No, and yet it was.

        2. Jefferson's Ghost   12 years ago

          You can't expect everyone to completely get it. I'm appreciative of Greenwald's work. Until a LNN is started up this is the best we will get, indeed.

  3. Brandybuck   12 years ago

    They'll go back to fawning over their masters once they realize they could lose their access to their masters. This has been the unwritten rule for over a century, play by the rules are don't get invited to press briefings.

    1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

      They should just walk away from "access." The lust for it has damaged the profession more than anything else.

      1. BakedPenguin   12 years ago

        Exactly. If they lose access, that should be a hint that it's time to find some insiders who can get dirt for exposes.

        1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

          They'll get access, anyway, because there are plenty in government who will leak information for one reason or another. Besides, the Internet.

          1. Invisible Finger   12 years ago

            If a journalist is allowed access it's an indication that the journalist is of more use to the grantor of the access than the journalist is to the consumer of the journalism.

            1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

              Yeah, I mean, look at ESPN.

              1. Almanian!   12 years ago

                +1 TO being interviewed while doing pushups in his driveway

      2. Brett L   12 years ago

        I don't understand. All they have to do is say simply: "No matter what you do, kill a baby, save the world, we will never run your name in our publication again. Period." And make one example. End of fight.

        1. Pro Libertate   12 years ago

          Because they are pussies who love the state, they'll do no such thing, by and large.

          1. Brett L   12 years ago

            Well, yeah. I mean, you don't make managing editor by telling the people your publisher sees at charity events to fuck off. But I can dream, can't I?

  4. Fist of Etiquette   12 years ago

    It will be interesting if they can resist the urge to go back to humping the leg that is ever poised to kick them.

  5. John   12 years ago

    No shit. There's an old saying about the lack of wisdom in picking fights with people who buy ink by the barrel.

    Whatever JD. A few of them will write a few angry words to make themselves feel better and then go right back to shilling for the government and doing everything they can to protect Obama. And Obama knows that. He didn't pick a fight here.

    1. Sevo   12 years ago

      They'll point out that Bush started it, and Obama has to do it 'cause rethuglicans.

      1. Finrod   12 years ago

        Yep. Journalists in general are so far in the tank for Team Blue that they'll find excuses eventually.

  6. Paul.   12 years ago

    So, are journalists getting back into civil liberties? It's so hard to keep up with the fads...

    1. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

      +1 platform shoe

  7. CampingInYourPark   12 years ago

    I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.

    Okay, this is a little over the top. Was he not going to do these things before this event?

    1. John   12 years ago

      The fact that he felt the need to even say that says no he wasn't. I am not sure which is more pathetic, these people or JD trying to pretend they mean anything they say.

      1. Paul.   12 years ago

        They mean it, John. For a while. But they'll take Big Government back... they love Big Government, they can change Big Government... journalists just walked in to a door... they're so clumsy sometimes.

        1. Calidissident   12 years ago

          I don't think Greenwald deserves to get lumped in with the others. And I think it's smart to not play all your cards at once

          1. John   12 years ago

            It is when the government plans to steal your cards. I wish Greenwald would just release everything he has and be done with it.

            1. Calidissident   12 years ago

              "It is when the government plans to steal your cards."

              It's risky either way. Giving up all your leverage is not a no-risk move.

              Or perhaps he's not doing it because Snowden has told him not to

            2. mad libertarian guy   12 years ago

              I wish Greenwald would just release everything he has and be done with it.

              Bad strategy.

              It damages the government much more to release it slowly, especially in a day and age when stupid shit can derail the press from reporting on not stupid shit.

              Plus it allows the government to stake out a position, only to be refuted by a later release of more information. Greenwald is playing the government masterfully. That's why they resorted to minor league intimidation by detaining his partner.

              1. fish   12 years ago

                It damages the government much more to release it slowly, especially in a day and age when stupid shit can derail the press from reporting on not stupid shit.

                +1000

                This "Death by 1000 cuts" strategy is the most effective way. Keeps things in the generally scatterbrained publics head better than any Friday data dump.....after all a Kardashian might do something and it would all be down the memory hole.

                Plus it allows the government to stake out a position, only to be refuted by a later release of more information.

                I wonder if General Alexander feels like going back to Black Hat anytime soon?

              2. RG   12 years ago

                I'm with mlg. My hope is they are slow playing their hand. Letting the politicians and their apologists in the media spin each and every new revelation, then finally playing their strongest card.

              3. Paul.   12 years ago

                Plus it allows the government to stake out a position, only to be refuted by a later release of more information.

                This with a Monkey in a funny hat juggling on it.

            3. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

              I wonder if he worked out a deal with Snowden to hold onto a bunch of stuff as security against Snowden's life.

      2. mad libertarian guy   12 years ago

        I am not sure which is more pathetic, these people or JD trying to pretend they mean anything they say.

        Are you trying to suggest that Greenwald is some sort of pretender?

        That's absurd.

        1. John   12 years ago

          No. I am suggesting the journalists who have now decided that the UK went too far here are pretenders. They will be back to defending Obama on this before the week is out.

          1. Troglodyte Rex   12 years ago

            Agreed. 13 weeks ago the journalists were all pissy that Holder was spyingon them. 12 weeks ago they stopped caring.

      3. kinnath   12 years ago

        A legal question. So Snowden downloads tons of data from the NSA and releases it to the public. This makes Snowden a whistleblower right (that is his claim anyway).

        But if Snowden also captures data regarding another countries intelligence operations, does releasing that data to the public make Snowden a spy? In other words, does it affect Snowden's claim of being a whistleblower?

        1. John   12 years ago

          Releasing it at all puts him in violation of the statute. There is no "whistle blower" exception. But releasing it doesn't make him a spy. Espionage is a different statute. To be a spy, you have to do it for the benefit of another country or to damage the US. That is a specific intent crime. That was the crime Manning was acquitted of.

          1. kinnath   12 years ago

            I just wondered if it had any impact on his future defense if the public disclosure were limited to the US intelligence.

          2. Paul.   12 years ago

            Espionage is a different statute. To be a spy, you have to do it for the benefit of another country or to damage the US.

            Both can be argued in Snowden's case.

            The US was damaged because the US was damaged. /US Attorney

            He helped other countries because Al Qaeda benefited or stood to benefit. /US Attorney

            1. John   12 years ago

              You can argue anything. But that doesn't mean a jury or a judge will believe it. Once again, Manning was acquitted of espionage.

    2. Steve G   12 years ago

      My initial thoughts exactly. Not sure 'making it personal' is the right way to go here...

  8. Dave Krueger   12 years ago

    There's been a lot of commentary on this incident by various officials, watch dogs, and journalists. So far I haven't seen any demands that they return his stuff to him or that those who perpetrated this abuse of power be fired and prosecuted.

    So, after all the outrage, no one will be punished and this kind of thing will continue to happen until it becomes an accepted part of life.

    And Bobarian makes a good point: Why is it less of an outrage when this happens to someone who isn't a journalist or the partner of a journalist? And yet we hear about this kind of abuse all the time. Their mistake this time is that they picked on someone with a voice.

    1. Paul.   12 years ago

      This is England. Fired or prosecuted for what?

      1. Dave Krueger   12 years ago

        Oops. I forgot. They don't have any laws against abuse of power in England.

        1. Paul.   12 years ago

          Yeah, I wasn't being snarky, I was honestly curious. For instance, England can actually pass a law against a single person. Like:

          Bernard Wimbly shall not enter the 7-11 on Number 23 North Umbridge lane, A3, North Hampton.

          England has zero due process. At least in this country, we have it, but we ignore it.

          1. fish   12 years ago

            Shit Paul it's Wimbly, Bernard Wimbly!

            If anybody needed an individually tailored restrictive law applied to them it's Bernard Wimbly!

            1. Paul.   12 years ago

              This is why England is the envy of the civilized world.

          2. croaker   12 years ago

            The legal term you're reaching for is "Bill of Attainder". And yes, Parliament can pass a law making a specific individual a felon by name and sentence him to the Tower of London.

  9. Anonymous Coward   12 years ago

    No shit. There's an old saying about the lack of wisdom in picking fights with people who buy ink by the barrel. Now that pixels have largely replaced ink, the potential risk in infuriating journalists with crude threats can only be magnified.

    Anyone who believes the pen is inherently mightier than sword should try stabbing themselves in the hand with a pen, then with a sword, and see which draws more blood.

    1. Voros McCracken   12 years ago

      I was very critical of someone once, and then borrowed their shoes. After walking about a mile in the shoes, I still felt that my initial criticisms were accurate, and that my walk really had no bearing on that opinion.

      1. Paul.   12 years ago

        But you had their shoes!

      2. Sidd Finch   12 years ago

        "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes."

  10. Gojira   12 years ago

    I never even knew Greenwald was gay.

    Interesting that despite being a progressive liberal, he doesn't make a big deal out of it and doesn't throw it around as being the center of his identity. He's a dude who just happens to be gay.

    1. squarooticus   12 years ago

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttUvsrcxKmI

      1. Gojira   12 years ago

        Sorry, can't watch that at work. Can you give me the summary?

        1. SugarFree   12 years ago

          It's two gay guys going at it while a court reporter sketches the action.

          1. Gojira   12 years ago

            I prefer this explanation and will hold that image in my head.

            1. Ted S.   12 years ago

              You like watching gay guys go at each other?

        2. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

          It's George Carlin on the phrases "happens to be" and "openly" in describing minorities.

          The phrase "happens to be black" is mocked, as if were some kind of "accident."

          The term "openly" applies to gays, and rarely to blacks (exceptions duly noted).

          1. Eduard van Haalen   12 years ago

            (add obscenity, stir as needed)

          2. Gojira   12 years ago

            Hmm. When I say "happens to be", I mean somebody doesn't make their group affiliation the end-all be-all of their existence and how they interact with the outside world.

            IOW, they aren't showing off their major in Aggrieved Minority Studies. I mean it as a compliment.

            1. Gojira   12 years ago

              Aggrieved Minority Victimization Studies

        3. jesse.in.mb   12 years ago

          It's George Carlin making fun of the terms "happens to be" and "openly" when talking about minorities.

  11. mad libertarian guy   12 years ago

    Detaining Miranda was Busch League level intimidation. It was incredibly stupid, and clearly was thought out by a fucking joke.

    1. jesse.in.mb   12 years ago

      I'd be curious to know whether this was a direct from the top event or if the guy's name was flagged because of his relationship to Greenwald and local agents thought they had a big fish. I'm not sure I'd be surprised by either the malice or the incompetence at this point.

      1. np   12 years ago

        A late update to yesterday's article explains it:

        UPDATE II: According to the New York Times, the targeting of Miranda--while still having nothing whatever to do with terrorism investigations, remember--was not random harassment either. They apparently knew that Miranda had Snowden-related documents on a thumb drive on his person, which they stole, ones that documentary filmmaker Laura Poitras had given him to bring to Greenwald.

        1. Brandybuck   12 years ago

          NYT defending the thugs. What else is new?

    2. CE   12 years ago

      Maybe they figured they didn't have to Mirandize him.

    3. CatoTheElder   12 years ago

      Even John Ashcroft wasn't that fucking stupid, and even Dick Cheney wasn't that fascistic.

  12. Steve G   12 years ago

    Good thing we're getting that definition of journalist worked out. Want to make sure who the combatants are in this war

    1. Sevo   12 years ago

      "Good thing we're getting that definition of journalist worked out. Want to make sure who the combatants are in this war"

      Yeah, when they jam Joe Doaks in the cell, no one bothers to say a word.

  13. JW   12 years ago

    No shit. There's an old saying about the lack of wisdom in picking fights with people who buy ink by the barrel.

    That's only true under the presumption that the other side is playing fair and will abide by the rules.

    I wouldn't be too surprised if Greenwald and his partner, woke up in a pool of their own blood, one morning. Hey, it's Brazil, a country notorious for violent crime and organ theft.

  14. CE   12 years ago

    The mask slips a little more, exposing their true nature.

  15. The Late P Brooks   12 years ago

    What I saw of Morning Joke featured a simpering love poem to Mayor Bloomberg; no mention of Miranda.

    Good little boys and girls stay on the plantation, wrapped safely in the arms of their betters.

  16. Westmiller   12 years ago

    Good article. EVERY journalist should be totally pissed.
    Greenwald has corrected one mistranslation: he didn't say (in Spanish) that "they will be sorry for what they did," but rather that they will regret this action and the response to it ... from others.

  17. ClarkAspen   12 years ago

    New rule: Whatever you do, never, *ever* retain without charges anyone named Miranda.

Please log in to post comments

Mute this user?

  • Mute User
  • Cancel

Ban this user?

  • Ban User
  • Cancel

Un-ban this user?

  • Un-ban User
  • Cancel

Nuke this user?

  • Nuke User
  • Cancel

Un-nuke this user?

  • Un-nuke User
  • Cancel

Flag this comment?

  • Flag Comment
  • Cancel

Un-flag this comment?

  • Un-flag Comment
  • Cancel

Latest

James Comey's Deleted '86 47' Instagram Post Is Obviously Protected by the First Amendment

Billy Binion | 5.16.2025 4:48 PM

New Montana Law Blocks the State From Buying Private Data To Skirt the Fourth Amendment

Joe Lancaster | 5.16.2025 4:05 PM

Trump's Tariffs Are Sapping Small Business Optimism

Autumn Billings | 5.16.2025 12:00 PM

Andor Is a Star Wars Show About the Brutality of Bureaucracy

Peter Suderman | 5.16.2025 10:10 AM

Quality Seeds

Liz Wolfe | 5.16.2025 9:31 AM

Recommended

  • About
  • Browse Topics
  • Events
  • Staff
  • Jobs
  • Donate
  • Advertise
  • Subscribe
  • Contact
  • Media
  • Shop
  • Amazon
Reason Facebook@reason on XReason InstagramReason TikTokReason YoutubeApple PodcastsReason on FlipboardReason RSS

© 2024 Reason Foundation | Accessibility | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

r

Do you care about free minds and free markets? Sign up to get the biggest stories from Reason in your inbox every afternoon.

This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

This modal will close in 10

Reason Plus

Special Offer!

  • Full digital edition access
  • No ads
  • Commenting privileges

Just $25 per year

Join Today!