Rand Paul

Paul's Critics: If You Question Mass Surveillance or Disaster Relief, You Hate Children

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Last week, condemning "this strain of libertarianism that's going through both parties right now," New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie challenged people who worry about government surveillance or targeted killings to "come to New Jersey and sit across from the [9/11] widows and the orphans and have that conversation." Christie, who cited Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) as an exemplar of this "very dangerous" interest in civil liberties, had no real argument, just a pose as a caring, practical-minded person determined not to get bogged down in "these esoteric, intellectual debates" about the right to privacy or due process, because all sensible people recognize that when push comes to shove such airy-fairy notions must be sacrificed for the sake of safety. Why trust the government with the power to collect our telephone records or kill anyone the president suspects of involvement with terrorism? Because widows and orphans, that's why!

Today Rep. Michael Grimm (R-N.Y.), who represents Staten Island, took a similar tack in response to Paul's criticism of Christie for demanding federal subsidies after Hurricane Sandy. Over the weekend, Paul summed up Christie's attitude this way: "Gimme, gimme, gimme—give me all my Sandy money now." He added that "those are the people who are bankrupting the government." That was too much for Grimm, who said in a prepared statement:

Senator Rand Paul's remarks are disgraceful. I saw the Sandy devastation with my own eyes. I comforted those who lost children and husbands, and others who lost every treasured possession they own. To criticize Northeast Republicans for fighting tooth and nail to bring relief to the very people we represent is reprehensible. This is what we were elected to do and we delivered.

Libertarians like Rand Paul are continually hurting the Republican brand. Even after a storm as devastating as Sandy, it's clear that Senator Paul would rather put ideology before humanity. Unfortunately, ideology will not rebuild a home or help a small business recover. This type of rhetoric we continue to hear from Senator Paul and others is not only unproductive in Congress, but a threat to all Americans who put their faith and confidence in elected officials should disaster strike—whether it is Superstorm Sandy or 9/11.

How do we know that disaster relief is a legitimate federal function and that every cent self-righteous schnorrers like Christie and Grimm got was money well spent? Because dead children and husbands, that's why! Have you no humanity?

Remember Christie and Grimm's pathetic excuses for logic the next time you hear a Republican complain that Democrats use emotional appeals instead of reason to get their way.

In a TV debate on Friday, Matt Welch criticized the "sick" rhetorical habit of building statist arguments on the corpses of 9/11 victims.

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  1. I agree that Paul had a point and these blowhards are waving the bloody shirt.

    That said, Rand should have known that was the part of his comment that was going to be quoted. The stereotype of libertarians is that we hate widows and orphans. The larger point about the NY and NJ governments needing to be prepared to handle these sorts of situations without turning to the Feds is going to be completely lost in the noise.

    1. Damn, though, the old guard GOP is really scared shitless about Rand Paul being a force in changing the party and possibly getting all the way to the White House. They are bringing out the attack dogs awfully early. It’s amazing how many people said that the Rs need to abandon a lot of the SoCon approach and embrace more libertarian-style ideas if they have any hope of surviving — yet these Repubs would rather eat their own than allow the tent to expand.

      1. if there is anything keeping me from regularly voting R it is the apalling stupidity and intractability of the institutional, establishment GOP who still think the social-con themes of the early 2000s are the core of republican values and key to election victory, as opposed to the more-practical small(er) government themes that defined the GOP during the 80s & 90s. Theres a reason the ‘tea party’ ideas generated so much enthusiasm because it represented a return to the roots of opposition to the progressive, big government narrative. The fact these fucking retards dont realize they are dinosaurs up to their necks in the tar pits is almost handing the 2016 election to something even worse than obama. if they simply jumped on the rand/cruz/amash bandwagon and gave them more support and credibility then independents would flock to the GOP in droves.

        1. While true, giving Rand the ammunition that he’s bucking his own party (and significant portions of the other party while still making friends across the aisle) might actually make him a more palatable POTUS candidate come general election time, and maybe even in the primaries.

        2. The social-con themes were set in the late 1970s. The small(er) gov’t themes, on the national scene at least (though maybe not in many states), got pushed out to justify the Bushes as presidents. You know: kinder, gentler, compassionate. It’s not like the GOP collectively decided on those things primarily; rather, first it was pick a president, then retroactively explain why the ideas of the prez you put up were a good thing. If they pick Rand Paul and he wins for whatever reason, just you watch, it’ll be like they were for small gov’t all along all over again, all the way down to the grass roots.

      2. Well, the key to understanding this is the realization that they never really meant libertarian-style ideas. Or if they did, they meant it in the same way Bill Maher is a “libertarian”. That is to say, they meant libertarian in the sense of abandoning social conservatism. What they left unsaid was that they wanted to move in the direction of social and economic progressivism. It’s why the enemy of your enemy isn’t necessarily your friend.

    2. Rand should have known that was the part of his comment that was going to be quoted.

      You think it hurts him with GOP primary voters? I think it plays pretty well with that group, and that’s all that matters right now.

      1. You mean the whole country doesn’t revolve around NYC and the Jersey shore?

  2. “come to New Jersey and sit across from the [9/11] widows and the orphans and have that conversation.”

    I’d be happy to discuss with them the utter failure of their precious government to protect them, and how they are being used as cover by unscrupulous politicians and bureaucrats to amass power.

    I’d love to ask them what they think about an NSA and a government treats their privacy and rights with the same respect as it treats those of suspected terrorists.

    1. Well, if the NSA had existed before 9/11 none of those people would have died…

      1. It did exist and you are so wrong it is not funny!

        1. Your sarcasm detector is so broken it is not funny!

    2. I’d be happy to discuss with them the utter failure of their precious government to protect them, and how they are being used as cover by unscrupulous politicians and bureaucrats to amass power.

      Precious pre-9/11 government. With the PATRIOT act and the NSA surveillance, we finally have the government other people deserve.

    3. maybe the 9/11 widows should ask Christie about his own actions: http://thenewamerican.com/usne…..ge-nominee

      1. I don’t remember who I stole it from but:

        What is Chris Christie going to say to the mothers of children lost in the war on type II diabetes?

        1. “Get in muh tummy.

    4. come to New Jersey and sit across from the [9/11] widows and the orphans and have that conversation

      Sure Chris, and right after that let’s swing up to Boston to sit across from a room full of one-legged people and explain to them how important it is for their emails to be read and telephone calls logged For Their Safety. And save your crocodile tears and emot

  3. Paul should meet with the families of 9/11 victims and Sandy and talk with them. I’m sure many wouldn’t agree with him, but I’d bet some would. And it would pull the chair right out from under the feet of Christie and Grimm.

    1. That actually wouldn’t be such a bad idea. Have a real discussion with people, and sidestep the inane soundbite wars.

  4. I’ve got three kids, and right now I hate approximately 2/3rds of them.

    1. So they have a supermajority aligned against you.

      1. Not a democracy here, not even a republic. Authoritarian dictatorship rules in my house.

        1. See? Libertarians are all hypocrites! They won’t let children have a vote! The children deserve a vote!

          1. We follow Clarence Thomas rules around here. The children get to protest, but have no power.

            As opposed to Scalia rules, where the children get assigned to their free speech zones and the police actions are plentiful.

            1. Do you ever tell the kids to “stop resisting”?

              1. “Children, why do you hate yourselves?”

  5. “Libertarians like Rand Paul are continually hurting the Republican brand.”

    So the “brand” is free shit?

    1. In New York and New Jersey, the brand is always free shit.

      1. Elsewhere, the brand is “wet your pants whenever some sane person suggests cutting military spending.”

        1. I’m in SE Virginia and that is the rule around here. If our legislators could legally fellate a four star general on broadcast TV, they would.

          1. With the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, I’m not sure there’s any legal obstacle to that any more….

          2. We sail with Capt. Tuna, the chicken of the sea….

    2. So the “brand” is free shit?

      FTFY

  6. Stagnant thinking from Stagnant Island.

  7. What amuses me is that it’s actually the majority of the Republican base that was off-put by Christie’s open begging for cash and they’re glad Rand said something.

    The Elite Reds are rapidly losing touch with their base, which one would have thought 2010 would be an abject lesson on that.

    1. And also everyone outside New Jersey was hoping New Jersey didn’t make it.

  8. Rand Paul will need to choose Rudy Guiliani as running mate to balance the ticket.

    1. That’s disgusting.

    2. Giuliani’s right up there with the Stalinist enablers, but if you really want to balance out a pro-freedom candidate, Bloomberg’s your man. Maybe McCain.

        1. Wouldn’t be eligible.

      1. Did Bloomberg even endorse Romney? I thought he was a Republican only because “Citywide Life Coach” wasn’t an option on the registration form.

        McCain was too old last time, and is already well on his way to Valhalla.

        Maybe Susan Collins or Lisa Murkowski. They would balance the ticket and check the woman/minority box without being too much of a distraction.

        I was going to say Lindsey Graham or Christie would be poor choices, due to their public fighting with Rand. But, let’s say Rand has won the nomination. At that point, they need to choose between attempting to sabotage Rand or accepting the VP slot. IIRC, there was bad blood between HW and Reagan at one point, so it can be done. Christie, I can’t be sure, but I bet Graham would take the VP slot.

        1. Graham can take the left seat on the train to hell. I can’t in good conscience ever cast a vote that would enable him in any way whatsoever.

    3. Fuck off, party loyalist.

      1. I don’t always vote LP. I voted Reagan 84 and Obama 08.

        So you would be wrong again.

      2. Don’t fucking respond to it.

    4. your election wisdom is equal only to your capability for non-partisan rationality.

      as in, non-existant.

      Giuliani is/was reviled by most mainstream republicans as a elitist urban RINO who had no appeal to most red state voters. typically, liberals always think the ‘best’ republicans are the ones who could change ties and party affiliation overnight and no one would notice.

      if paul runs, id think maybe cruz would work as a foil. or rubio maybe. or maybe an establishment guy with bona fides like tom coburn.

      1. My “election wisdom” has been superb. I called the past few elections perfectly (yes, I read Nate Silver among others).

        Nevertheless, I am more fact-based than any poster here.

        1. Do your handlers beat you? They should.

        2. “I am more fact-based than any other poster here.”

          Holy shit that is grade A comedy right there. Hahahahahahahaha.

          1. I literally laughed when I read it.

            1. Same here. Unintended comedy is often the best.

  9. Libertarians like Rand Paul are continually hurting the Republican brand.

    But of course you still expect us to vote for your sorry asses.

  10. SuperStorm Federal Bankruptcy is going to be 1,000,000 times worse than SuperStorm Sandy.

    And libertarian ideology will definitely help small businesses recover. Big government East-German style surveillance state apologists/Stalinist enablers, not so much.

  11. Gawd, I hope a lot of these neocons get their asses primaried in 2014.

    1. I’ve been seeing a lot of dissatisfaction from Team Red for a while, and there’s some heartening chatter concerning civil liberties and spending, but it always seems to really move around perceived betrayals regarding immigration and the gheys, which is not so heartening. Throw in abortion and drug warrior fuel and I’m not seeing any real libertarian “populism” as likely to emerge from the Republican base any time soon.

    2. These aren’t neocons. These are Republicans. Establishment Republicans. The sooner libertarians face the fact that Paul and Cruz are the aberrations, the sooner we can be more honest about the GOP and their chances for ever letting a liberty candidate through the big-government, socon polluted swamp of their primary.

      1. This. For every Paul or Amash, there are about 300 Cheneys, Grahams, and Hatches. I’m tired of the GOP. They can kiss my ass.

        1. Now you’re coming to your senses!

          1. Before you get too cocky, you period-stained fuckstick, you can take your Democrat gods and go to hell.

          2. As much as I hate TEAM RED, at least they have a Paul and an Amash. TEAM BLUE has abandoned any pretense of fiscal responsibility, let alone fiscal conservatism, and loves themselves some war and some surveillance state – provided the right people are in charge.

            1. Indeed. It’s possible to find someone in the GOP who is good on both civil liberties and economic liberty. On TEAM BLUE, of the very few who are good on civil liberties, they are all batshit insane on economic issues.

              1. Like when Obama said he would cut the Bush/Cheney deficit in HALF – and then did it?

                1. Like when he asserted the government has the authority to compel you to eat broccoli.

                2. Like when he entrenched it and allowed it to shrink very temporarily and unsustainably.

                3. Obama said he would cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term. He didn’t even come close. And am I really supposed to be impressed by cutting in half a deficit that was massively inflated by the recession and the response to it? The 09 FY budget deficit was more than double the deficit of the year prior, so even if Obama did cut it in half, it would still be higher than it was 7 of 8 years under Bush

                  1. Calidissident| 7.29.13 @ 7:00PM |#
                    …”And am I really supposed to be impressed by cutting in half a deficit that was massively inflated by the recession and the response to it?”…

                    If that doesn’t impress you, why dipshit will select the half hour on Nov. 26, 2011 when the market jumped 60 points and claim that lying piece of shit in the WH fed the masses with a fish and a loaf for his entire reign!
                    Never underestimate the mendacity of that turd.

                4. Like when Obama said he would cut the Bush/Cheney deficit in HALF – and then did it?

                  It’s worth noting that when he made that remark, the federal deficit was about half what it presently is….

                  1. “Like when Obama said he would cut the Bush/Cheney deficit in HALF – and then did it?”
                    “It’s worth noting that when he made that remark, the federal deficit was about half what it presently is….

                    When shreek makes a claim like that, it’s a dead certainty that the data is cherry-picked to ignore any opposite evidence.
                    Rely on it.

                5. The 2009 fiscal year budget was signed by Obama, you fucking imbecile. All the $1T+ deficits are on his shoulders.

                6. “Like when Obama said he would cut the Bush/Cheney deficit in HALF – and then did it?”

                  You have quite the fucked-up definition of the term ‘fiscal responsibility’, moron.

            2. TEAM RED will let the occasional force for good through. TEAM BLUE has…Brooker?

              1. Wyden. Other than that I’m shooting blanks.

        2. Doesn’t matter how many candidates they have of which stripe, only how many voters. They can have all the Cheneys they want, but if they don’t claw their way to the top….

      2. The Establishment Republican prime specimen is Dickless “Deficits don’t matter” Cheney.

        A disgusting draft-dodging chickenhawk Big Gov Neocon. There is no worse POS in all of my five decades.

        1. …”There is no worse POS in all of my five decades.”

          Then you’ve been unconscious for the last 5 years, dipshit.

          1. Said dipshit hasn’t shown signs of brain activity his entire life.

      3. They are NeoCons. NeoCons have had control of the Republican party for some time now.

        Paul, Amash, and Massie are the guys that are rocking the boat.

        For only 3 people, they sure seem to be raising quite the brewing storm. And the GOP establishment are obviously scared shitless of them, or we wouldn’t be seeing all of these type statements. If they weren’t scared, they would just stay quiet.

        Also, Cruz is not a Libertarian. He’s a Libertarian when he proves it. I don’t even think he considers himself a Libertarian, but a conservative.

        1. I meant Amash. I had cruising on my mind. Big gay weekend coming up.

        2. The GOP establishment and Neocon establishment are a very intimate symbiosis but they are not the same.

        3. He’s not a Libertarian, but he’s a hell of a lot closer to one and easier to work with than Chris Christie.

          http://hotair.com/archives/201…..s-attacks/

          Mentions and links Nick’s piece, for an alternate view why Chris Christie is much more libertarian than Ted Cruz.

      4. It’ll never happen. Pink libertarians are like Team Red’s abused girlfriends. They badmouth beltway-insidering kosmotarians out of one side of their mouths while swearing out of the other side that this year the Reds will let them get their camel toes under the tent.

        1. We are getting our camel-toes under the tent. It is happening whether you are a part of it or not.

          1. Even if we have to smuggle those yo-yos in

        2. That’s some crazy sounding physiology.

      5. True, though neither grouping is particularly representative of their voter base. The Cruzes and (Rand) Pauls of the world have a better claim at being the energetic part of the base and at being able to establish a modus vivendi with SoCons and other parts of the American public, though. Ain’t nobody invested in shit like PRISM outside of the NSA itself.

  12. “come to New Jersey and sit across from the [9/11] widows and the orphans and have that conversation.”

    What a disgusting fuck.

    1. Seriously, who wants to go to Jersey?

      1. I’d just like to know how to stop them from coming here.

        1. Stopping Christie requires a Jaeger I saw it in Pacific Rim.

          1. I LOLed.

        2. By exercising your Second Amendment rights.

  13. Ooooh, snap. Sullum brings the yiddishkeit. Yasher Koach!

    1. Not only is Christie a schnorrer, but he’s chutzpahdik about it. He’s also a meeskeit foss tochus leker.

      Grimm? He’s nothing but just a nebbishadik putz.

      1. My Yiddish sucks, so you’re going to have to help me out here and mach schnel.

        1. chutzpahdik: With chutzpah
          meeskeit: ugly
          foss: fatso
          tochus leker: ass-licker
          nebbishadik:nebbish-like
          nebbish: weak-willed, ineffectual, dorky
          putz: literally it means “adornment”, but it refers to every man’s favorite “adornment” (i.e. the penis).

          1. Holy shit, HM is a jew? Are you the ghost of Sammie Davis Jr. or Lenny Kravitz?

            1. When did Lenny Kravitz die?

              1. There’s still a third “Hunger Games” chapter to film.

        2. I’m disturbed that I knew all of it. How?

  14. Chris Christie is turning into the Republican version of Huey Long.

  15. I love all this crap about “disaster relief.” I have been “lucky” enough to go through several of the top 10 hurricane disasters of the last 20 years. Yet I have never seen a red cent or a single calorie of food or energy offered us from any government entity. Not that I’d want it.

    Calling them Jackasses would be too kind.

    1. Yesterday on one of the talking heads shows, some statist said that “Except for the voting, what happened with Sandy and the bankruptcy of Detroit are the same thing. We need to help out these unfortunate people.”

      1. So Sandy was the result of brain-dead lefty governance for the last 30 years?!

        1. Apparently each was a natural disaster that the locals fell victim to. This came right after George Will listed a string of stunning facts (e.g. 47% of Detroit residents are functionally illiterate) and the lady from the left said that she found those facts “insulting to the people of Detroit.”

          So not only was the Detroit bankruptcy something that couldn’t be avoided in any way, just like Superstorm Sandy, any mention of other problems in the city should just be ignored, too, especially facts.

          1. Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded ? here and there, now and then ? are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

            This is known as “bad luck.”

            – Robert A. Heinlein

      2. Well, Democratic governance does tend to destroy areas much like a natural disaster, it just takes longer.

    1. Grimm said the article was written by a reporter “on a witch hunt” and that “this incident was fully investigated and I was cleared of all of the ridiculous and absurd allegations. To further entertain this partisan attack on my exemplary career and service to this great nation would be to give [the allegation] credence, of which it deserves none.” The New York Police Department and U.S. Justice Department have refused to release documents regarding the incident. Ratliff subsequently released additional material corroborating his article.

      Your “exemplary career and service”? Full of yourself much? You were investigating Mafia thugs and when the husband of the chick you’re boning calls you on it, you act like…wait for it…a Mafia thug.

      Takes one to know one, bitch./blockquote

      1. partisan attack on my exemplary career and service

        Wait, dunphy is Grimm?

        1. They teach that exact phrase in cop school. You can’t pass without being able to parrot it perfectly. Many ring the bell before mastering it’s complexity.

      2. Wow. Sounds like Staten Island is getting what they deserve, good and hard.

    2. Backpfeifengesicht

      1. Best word ever, in any language, in any time.

    3. Look, have you ever dealt with a blutbad at that time of the month? Then don’t hate.

  16. Gotta love a good emotional appeal over sound logic…

  17. To criticize Northeast Republicans for fighting tooth and nail to bring relief to the very people we represent is reprehensible. This is what we were elected to do and we delivered.

    Well then, since it’s really, really, REALLY important, I guess it’s okay to beggar thy neighbor and hoover up those federal dollars.

    Libertarians like Rand Paul are continually hurting the Republican brand. Even after a storm as devastating as Sandy, it’s clear that Senator Paul would rather put ideology before humanity.

    Principles: Confounding politicians like Michael Grimm since man first learned how to make fire.

    Unfortunately, ideology will not rebuild a home or help a small business recover.

    Unfortunately, Rand Paul pegged your ideology, which is “gimme gimme gimme!”

    This type of rhetoric we continue to hear from Senator Paul and others is not only unproductive in Congress, but a threat to all Americans who put their faith and confidence in elected officials should disaster strike?whether it is Superstorm Sandy or 9/11.

    Because Congress is an exemplar of “productivity.” Remember when Congress “produced” Obamacare? That was fun. How about when they “produced” TARP? I know I got a good chuckle from that one.

    Americans still put faith in elected officials? I’d sooner cut off a testicle and burn it to gain Mother Gaia’s favor. It would likely produce a better result.

  18. Grimm’s win was divisive for the Republican Party leadership,[24] which was more in favor of Allegretti, as Grimm won in large part due to the effect of the endorsement of the New York State Conservative Party and Tea Party voters.[25] Michael Grimm’s campaign gained national attention from Tea Party Republicans and the National Republican Congressional Committee, which contributed $90,000 to Grimm’s campaign.[26] He received endorsements from high-profile Republicans, including Giuliani,[27] John McCain,[28] Sarah Palin.[29][30] and former President George H.W. Bush, who applauded his service in the Gulf War and as part of the intelligence community.[31]

    I’m starting to think the Tea Party backed candidates that aren’t idiots or law and order fuckbags were just accidents.

    1. But he’s not REALLY a part of the Tea Party

      1. TBH I’ve never ever heard of this guy before.

    2. Oh, absolutely they were accidents.

      But if they keep it up and keep primarying them all every year, it could still work.

    3. Tea Parties are hyper-localized. In AZ, Maricopa Tea Party dickheads endorsed Joe Arpaio for the nteenth time — while at the same time, AZ-08 Tea Partiers were instrumental in nominating Jesse Kelly (our version of Ted Cruz) to run against Giffords.

      There’s a lot of variance depending on region, and it does not surprise me at all that the NY Tea Party would nominate a complete jerk as their candidate.

  19. Am I the only one who noticed this: Article 1 of the Constitution – no State shall…interfere in the obligation of Contracts?
    Storm hits Christie’s COASTAL state, and he bans insurance companies from collecting deductables on homeowner policies.
    We are a nation of men, not laws.

  20. “I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the general government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. A prevalent tendency to disregard the limited mission of this power and duty should, I think, be steadfastly resisted, to the end that the lesson should be constantly enforced that, though the people support the government, the government should not support the people. The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood”

    I think this was said by a Democrat once.

    1. Well said. I’m still blown away by no one noticing that Christie shat upon the Constitution he swore to preserve, protect, and defend.

      1. The Constitution is not a suicide pact!

        Superstorm Sandy was the worst disaster in the history of New Jersey! It was really, really, REALLY important!

        1. Well, in that case…

        2. “Superstorm Sandy was the worst disaster in the history of New Jersey”

          Aw, c’mon! Nothing could be worse than the last three governors.

          1. Except the cast of *Jersey Shore.*

            Ba-DUM-bum.

  21. You’re against internment of Japanese Americans? Sit across from the Pearl Harbor victims and their families and have that conversation!

  22. Grimm, tell your constituents to buy some fucking insurance instead of other people being their insurance. You prick.

  23. It would be excellent if Chris Christie and Rand Paul built each other up over the next 3 yrs. Each one might think of the other as the weakest primary opponent, so they both benefit by knocking all the others out of the limelight. I’d be very happy for Rand Paul to make it to the “semi-finals” like that, because from there he has a shot to go all the way.

  24. The children of this country are in far greater danger of being killed by a drunk driver or their government than by a terrorist.

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